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View Full Version : 5 Things I feel very strongly about for the 2011 NFL Draft



steelerkeylargo
04-28-2011, 05:02 PM
1) The Steelers will not be picking at 31. If they cannot trade up they will trade out.

2) Derek Sherrod & James Carpenter will wind up being the 2 best OT's from this draft.

3) Remember the name Ryan Hill-CB-Miami. There is a strong chance he will be wearing black-n-gold by Saturday. (I will gladly tell you guys why after the draft whether the Steelers draft him or not).

4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

5) There will be ALOT of very good names on the board when the 4th round starts on Saturday.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 05:13 PM
2) Derek Sherrod & James Carpenter will wind up being the 2 best OT's from this draft.

No way. I like Carpenter but to say he will be better than Carimi. Solder, or Costanzo is a reach.




4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

I dont agree. I believe they eventually will both be pro bowlers in the NFL. Sometimes you just got let go of workouts and actually see the production on the field.

SteelBucks
04-28-2011, 05:14 PM
1) The Steelers will not be picking at 31. If they cannot trade up they will trade out.

:Agree

steelerkeylargo
04-28-2011, 05:19 PM
2) Derek Sherrod & James Carpenter will wind up being the 2 best OT's from this draft.

No way. I like Carpenter but to say he will be better than Carimi. Solder, or Costanzo is a reach.




4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

I dont agree. I believe they eventually will both be pro bowlers in the NFL. Sometimes you just got let go of workouts and actually see the production on the field.

You and I have been through this too many times Dee Dub. You know I don't base anything off workouts. There is football outside the Pac-10.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 05:25 PM
2) Derek Sherrod & James Carpenter will wind up being the 2 best OT's from this draft.

No way. I like Carpenter but to say he will be better than Carimi. Solder, or Costanzo is a reach.




4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

I dont agree. I believe they eventually will both be pro bowlers in the NFL. Sometimes you just got let go of workouts and actually see the production on the field.

You and I have been through this too many times Dee Dub. You know I don't base anything off workouts. There is football outside the Pac-10.


Ok what do you base it on? You cant say it's based on what they did on the field because both Moore and Ayers performed at a very high level.

What scouts tell you?

Look at Martez Wilson as an example. He blows it up in workouts but on the field it didnt really translate. Yet he one of the hottest risers on the board since the combine.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 05:31 PM
.....There is football outside the Pac-10.

I know and there are 6 players on mydraft for other conferences. :wink:

steelerkeylargo
04-28-2011, 05:33 PM
[quote=steelerkeylargo]

2) Derek Sherrod & James Carpenter will wind up being the 2 best OT's from this draft.

No way. I like Carpenter but to say he will be better than Carimi. Solder, or Costanzo is a reach.




4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

I dont agree. I believe they eventually will both be pro bowlers in the NFL. Sometimes you just got let go of workouts and actually see the production on the field.

You and I have been through this too many times Dee Dub. You know I don't base anything off workouts. There is football outside the Pac-10.


Ok what do you base it on? You cant say it's based on what they did on the field because both Moore and Ayers performed at a very high level.

What scouts tell you?

Look at Martez Wilson as an example. He blows it up in workouts but on the field it didnt really translate. Yet he one of the hottest risers on the board since the combine.[/quote:b6juw1bt]

Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 05:57 PM
Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Ok we understand. You base it on game tape but not their production on the field. Cool. I dont know how that really works but whatever.

Maybe like...

“….Moore had a nice pick but I really don’t like how he came up too quickly out of his cuts. A little stiff at the waste but yet another INT for Rahim Moore.”

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2011, 06:16 PM
3) Remember the name Ryan Hill-CB-Miami. There is a strong chance he will be wearing black-n-gold by Saturday. (I will gladly tell you guys why after the draft whether the Steelers draft him or not).

Following the Sam Shields path to the NFL (Hurricane WR switches to CB and enters the NFL as an undrafted free agent)

Shawn
04-28-2011, 06:18 PM
1) The Steelers will not be picking at 31. If they cannot trade up they will trade out.

:Agree

x2

I think it's much more likely they will trade down. I doubt Mike makes it into the low 20 range, and that's where he will need to land in order to make a trade up feasible. With that said, I think the Steelers could also trade up for Sherrod. If both are gone by the low 20's, I fully expect to see the Steelers trade out of the first and grab I-Dowling.

Shawn
04-28-2011, 06:21 PM
Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Ok we understand. You base it on game tape but not their production on the field. Cool. I dont know how that really works but whatever.

Maybe like...

“….Moore had a nice pick but I really don’t like how he came up too quickly out of his cuts. A little stiff at the waste but yet another INT for Rahim Moore.”

I can actually see that kind of reasoning. College production doesn't always equate to NFL success. I'm not saying Moore won't be spectacular because honestly I haven't seen him play. With that said, many college players are productive in college only to flop in the NFL. So breaking down their mechanics is of vital importance.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 06:56 PM
Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Ok we understand. You base it on game tape but not their production on the field. Cool. I dont know how that really works but whatever.

Maybe like...

“….Moore had a nice pick but I really don’t like how he came up too quickly out of his cuts. A little stiff at the waste but yet another INT for Rahim Moore.”

I can actually see that kind of reasoning. College production doesn't always equate to NFL success. I'm not saying Moore won't be spectacular because honestly I haven't seen him play. With that said, many college players are productive in college only to flop in the NFL. So breaking down their mechanics is of vital importance.

Ok Shawn/SKL..i'll bite. What do you break down on a cover free safety? Back peddle? Turn and go? His physicality? These things really don’t apply to a free safety. He has shown some of the best cover skills of a free safety to come out in a long time. That is who he is. And if you are grading him on anything other than that then I have to question why? If he were a corner or a strong safety then I would say there is more need from him. But Moore is a terrific read and react center fielder who can come forward and slide with the best of them. He may not be 40 fast but on the field has tremendous closing speed. And that for a free safety is one of the most important things to have. Over and over and over I hear these so called experts down grade Moore for basically the one thing that he really doesn’t require…him being not as physical as desired.

Many are missing the boat on what this guys does. Someone is going to get a pro bowler.

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2011, 07:36 PM
1) The Steelers will not be picking at 31. If they cannot trade up they will trade out.

:Agree

x2

I think it's much more likely they will trade down. I doubt Mike makes it into the low 20 range, and that's where he will need to land in order to make a trade up feasible. With that said, I think the Steelers could also trade up for Sherrod. If both are gone by the low 20's, I fully expect to see the Steelers trade out of the first and grab I-Dowling.

The I is hypenated to his first name "Ras-I" not his last name "I-Dowling"

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 07:44 PM
[quote=steelerkeylargo]
Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Ok we understand. You base it on game tape but not their production on the field. Cool. I dont know how that really works but whatever.

Maybe like...

“….Moore had a nice pick but I really don’t like how he came up too quickly out of his cuts. A little stiff at the waste but yet another INT for Rahim Moore.”

I can actually see that kind of reasoning. College production doesn't always equate to NFL success. I'm not saying Moore won't be spectacular because honestly I haven't seen him play. With that said, many college players are productive in college only to flop in the NFL. So breaking down their mechanics is of vital importance.

Ok Shawn/SKL..i'll bite. What do you break down on a cover free safety? Back peddle? Turn and go? His physicality? These things really don’t apply to a free safety. He has shown some of the best cover skills of a free safety to come out in a long time. That is who he is. And if you are grading him on anything other than that then I have to question why? If he were a corner or a strong safety then I would say there is more need from him. But Moore is a terrific read and react center fielder who can come forward and slide with the best of them. He may not be 40 fast but on the field has tremendous closing speed. And that for a free safety is one of the most important things to have. Over and over and over I hear these so called experts down grade Moore for basically the one thing that he really doesn’t require…him being not as physical as desired.

Many are missing the boat on what this guys does. Someone is going to get a pro bowler.[/quote:24011yim]

Yeah..I didnt think I would get much of a response to this. Everyone wants to downgrade Moore for all the wrong reasons. Reasons that dont even apply to his position.

Shawn
04-28-2011, 08:26 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":eknxod9b][quote=steelerkeylargo]
Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Ok we understand. You base it on game tape but not their production on the field. Cool. I dont know how that really works but whatever.

Maybe like...

“….Moore had a nice pick but I really don’t like how he came up too quickly out of his cuts. A little stiff at the waste but yet another INT for Rahim Moore.”

I can actually see that kind of reasoning. College production doesn't always equate to NFL success. I'm not saying Moore won't be spectacular because honestly I haven't seen him play. With that said, many college players are productive in college only to flop in the NFL. So breaking down their mechanics is of vital importance.

Ok Shawn/SKL..i'll bite. What do you break down on a cover free safety? Back peddle? Turn and go? His physicality? These things really don’t apply to a free safety. He has shown some of the best cover skills of a free safety to come out in a long time. That is who he is. And if you are grading him on anything other than that then I have to question why? If he were a corner or a strong safety then I would say there is more need from him. But Moore is a terrific read and react center fielder who can come forward and slide with the best of them. He may not be 40 fast but on the field has tremendous closing speed. And that for a free safety is one of the most important things to have. Over and over and over I hear these so called experts down grade Moore for basically the one thing that he really doesn’t require…him being not as physical as desired.

Many are missing the boat on what this guys does. Someone is going to get a pro bowler.[/quote:eknxod9b]

Yeah..I didnt think I would get much of a response to this. Everyone wants to downgrade Moore for all the wrong reasons. Reasons that dont even apply to his position.[/quote:eknxod9b]

lol...I wasn't even online until now. No need to get yourself worked up. Pride brings division brother. You as well as I know I'm not an expert at breaking down a FS. What I am saying is that if there are quite a few scouts thinking the guy has some question marks in his game...then I'm listening. I personally have no idea how this guy will play in the NFL. You say one thing and SKL says another...we have heard both of your opinions, so I think it's ok to move on.

steelerkeylargo
04-28-2011, 11:40 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2zey6u3b][quote=steelerkeylargo]
Based on game tape that I spend 6 months breaking down. And for the record I don't like Wilson either. I would take Nate Irving in the 3rd before Wilson in the second 7 days a week. Like I said I am not getting into this with you again. We agree to disagree.

Ok we understand. You base it on game tape but not their production on the field. Cool. I dont know how that really works but whatever.

Maybe like...

“….Moore had a nice pick but I really don’t like how he came up too quickly out of his cuts. A little stiff at the waste but yet another INT for Rahim Moore.”

I can actually see that kind of reasoning. College production doesn't always equate to NFL success. I'm not saying Moore won't be spectacular because honestly I haven't seen him play. With that said, many college players are productive in college only to flop in the NFL. So breaking down their mechanics is of vital importance.

Ok Shawn/SKL..i'll bite. What do you break down on a cover free safety? Back peddle? Turn and go? His physicality? These things really don’t apply to a free safety. He has shown some of the best cover skills of a free safety to come out in a long time. That is who he is. And if you are grading him on anything other than that then I have to question why? If he were a corner or a strong safety then I would say there is more need from him. But Moore is a terrific read and react center fielder who can come forward and slide with the best of them. He may not be 40 fast but on the field has tremendous closing speed. And that for a free safety is one of the most important things to have. Over and over and over I hear these so called experts down grade Moore for basically the one thing that he really doesn’t require…him being not as physical as desired.

Many are missing the boat on what this guys does. Someone is going to get a pro bowler.[/quote:2zey6u3b]

Yeah..I didnt think I would get much of a response to this. Everyone wants to downgrade Moore for all the wrong reasons. Reasons that dont even apply to his position.[/quote:2zey6u3b]

All 32 teams have spoken for me. No Rahim Moore no Akeem Ayers.

hawaiiansteel
04-29-2011, 12:01 AM
Remember the name Ryan Hill-CB-Miami. There is a strong chance he will be wearing black-n-gold by Saturday. (I will gladly tell you guys why after the draft whether the Steelers draft him or not).



do the Steelers view Ryan Hill more as a safety prospect?

Dee Dub
04-29-2011, 01:27 AM
All 32 teams have spoken for me. No Rahim Moore no Akeem Ayers.

Not so fast....


4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

only 32 players have been chosen. And you said??? Thank you.

steelerkeylargo
04-29-2011, 02:22 AM
All 32 teams have spoken for me. No Rahim Moore no Akeem Ayers.

Not so fast....


4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

only 32 players have been chosen. And you said??? Thank you.

True! But YOU said both are first rounders and that Akeem Ayers is a top 15 player.

steelerkeylargo
04-29-2011, 02:23 AM
Remember the name Ryan Hill-CB-Miami. There is a strong chance he will be wearing black-n-gold by Saturday. (I will gladly tell you guys why after the draft whether the Steelers draft him or not).



do the Steelers view Ryan Hill more as a safety prospect?

No I think he is a corner only.

Dee Dub
04-29-2011, 11:58 AM
All 32 teams have spoken for me. No Rahim Moore no Akeem Ayers.

Not so fast....


4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

only 32 players have been chosen. And you said??? Thank you.

True! But YOU said both are first rounders and that Akeem Ayers is a top 15 player.

And you had 5 guys not graded as first rounders that werent. So what does it all mean? If we go buy your analogy, this would mean you are not a very good evaluator of football talent. :wink: I will stick by my thought that Rahim Moore will be an NFL pro bowler.

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 12:06 PM
I'm gonna have to stick up for my Bud, Dee Dub here. Look, I have some issues with Rahim Moore's game. And UCLA's pass defense was among the worst in college football last season. But you can't throw that on a single guy. I thought is was 50-50 that a team like Baltimore, maybe the Jets MIGHT have taken a flier on Moore in round 1. But I AM kinda shocked that Ayers didn't go in round 1. Jets certainly could have used more pass rush from the LB position. And the Bears ain't getting any younger at LB...even though I do agree that their most pressing need was a O-Linemen.


But both UCLA players are very good. And BOTH will be gone by 45 steelerkeylargo....wanna bet ? :tt2



God Bless...( That's for my Boy Dee Dub :Beer )

steelerkeylargo
04-29-2011, 12:11 PM
[quote=steelerkeylargo]All 32 teams have spoken for me. No Rahim Moore no Akeem Ayers.

Not so fast....


4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.

only 32 players have been chosen. And you said??? Thank you.

True! But YOU said both are first rounders and that Akeem Ayers is a top 15 player.

And you had 5 guys not graded as first rounders that werent. So what does it all mean? If we go buy your analogy, this would mean you are not a very good evaluator of football talent. :wink: I will stick by my thought that Rahim Moore will be an NFL pro bowler.[/quote:1r6vqwye]

Quarterback reaches will happen. My profile for James Carpenter clearly states he could sneak into the first round. I have not been banging a soapbox for guys like Moore & Ayers (who you called a top 15 player) who are clearly not 1st round talents. I have merely been bringing information to the table. You and I can go on about this forever but the proof wont come for at least a year. Save your vitriol for the "madcap" newbie.

steelerkeylargo
04-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Rahim Moore's 1 productive season on par with this list of "esteemed" :roll: players.


Al Worley, Washington (1968): 14 interceptions, 130 return yards
George Shaw, Oregon (1951): 13 interceptions, 136 yards
Hank Rich, Arizona State (1950): 12 interceptions, 135 yards
Bill Albrecht, Washington (1951): 12 interceptions, 140 yards
Frank Polito, Villanova (1971): 12 interceptions, 261 yards
Terry Hoage, Georgia (1982): 12 interceptions, 51 yards
Tony Thurman, Boston College (1984): 12 interceptions, 99 yards
Bob Navarro, Eastern Michigan (1989): 12 interceptions, 73 yards
Cornelius Price, Houston (1989): 12 interceptions, 187 yards
Terrell Buckley, Florida State (1991): 12 interceptions, 238 yards

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 03:36 PM
Rahim Moore's 1 productive season on par with this list of "esteemed" :roll: players.


Al Worley, Washington (1968): 14 interceptions, 130 return yards
George Shaw, Oregon (1951): 13 interceptions, 136 yards
Hank Rich, Arizona State (1950): 12 interceptions, 135 yards
Bill Albrecht, Washington (1951): 12 interceptions, 140 yards
Frank Polito, Villanova (1971): 12 interceptions, 261 yards
Terry Hoage, Georgia (1982): 12 interceptions, 51 yards
Tony Thurman, Boston College (1984): 12 interceptions, 99 yards
Bob Navarro, Eastern Michigan (1989): 12 interceptions, 73 yards
Cornelius Price, Houston (1989): 12 interceptions, 187 yards
Terrell Buckley, Florida State (1991): 12 interceptions, 238 yards




LOL :lol: Pretty good comeback sir. But you forgot...Carlton Gray. !!

Dee Dub
04-29-2011, 07:15 PM
SKL…you were wrong again. The NFL had Ayers and Moore rated higher than you did I guess..

:lol:

steelerkeylargo
04-29-2011, 10:54 PM
SKL…you were wrong again. The NFL had Ayers and Moore rated higher than you did I guess..

:lol:

They certainly did not. I had both players with 2nd round grades. Both went in the second. You said both were 1st rounders and that Ayers was a top 15 player. I would say my evaluations were much closer to NFL reality than yours.

http://thenationalfootballreport.com/value-board/

hawaiiansteel
04-29-2011, 11:07 PM
I'm gonna have to side with skl here.

he clearly stated on numerous occasions that neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers would get drafted in the first round and they weren't.

although skl was wrong about Danny Watkins not being a first-rounder... :D

Dee Dub
04-30-2011, 01:13 AM
Uhhhhhhhhhhh....



4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Like I said...SKL you got this one wrong.

hawaiiansteel
04-30-2011, 01:18 AM
Uhhhhhhhhhhh....



4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Like I said...SKL you got this one wrong.


the key word here was: should be drafted...SKL never said they wouldn't, his claim always has been that Moore and Ayers weren't first rounders and they weren't.

Chadman
04-30-2011, 01:27 AM
Don't know why Chadman's wading into this but..SKL was closer to the mark.


In the end- does it matter? How can anyone accurately predict 32 or 45 or 320 players correct drating positions?

Put it this way- was Cam Newton the #1 player in the draft?

History will show that he was- but would YOU draft him #1?

steelerkeylargo
04-30-2011, 09:39 AM
Uhhhhhhhhhhh....



4) Neither Rahim Moore or Akeem Ayers should be drafted in the first 45 picks.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Like I said...SKL you got this one wrong.


Dee Dub wrote on Dec. 15th 2010:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15213 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15213)

No frickin way. If Akeem Ayers who is a top 15 pick is on the board we go there. I don’t care how many OLB’s the Steelers have.

That would be so dumb. You talk about value.

_________________
1-RAHIM MOORE FS UCLA
2-RAS-I DOWLING CB VIRGINIA
3-COLIN MCCARTHY ILB MIAMI
4-JOSEPH BARKSDALE OT LSU
5-DION LEWIS RB PITT
6-TYROD TAYLOR WR VIRGINIA TECH
7-ZACH HURD OG UCONN

steelerkeylargo
04-30-2011, 09:43 AM
Dee Dub also wrote in the same thread


"Yes this is true…but you know darn good and well in this era of pass rush specialists no way Akeem Ayers is anywhere near a second round pick.

Top 15."

_________________
1-RAHIM MOORE FS UCLA
2-RAS-I DOWLING CB VIRGINIA
3-COLIN MCCARTHY ILB MIAMI
4-JOSEPH BARKSDALE OT LSU
5-DION LEWIS RB PITT
6-TYROD TAYLOR WR VIRGINIA TECH
7-ZACH HURD OG UCONN

grotonsteel
04-30-2011, 09:50 AM
I got one player right. Drake Nevis will go in 3rd Rd...i have been saying this Day 1... :wink:

Just j/k SKL

You did a fantastic job on most of the players and most of your write ups were very helpful during the draft process.

steelerkeylargo
04-30-2011, 10:10 AM
I got one player right. Drake Nevis will go in 3rd Rd...i have been saying this Day 1... :wink:

Just j/k SKL

You did a fantastic job on most of the players and most of your write ups were very helpful during the draft process.

Drake's bowl game killed him. He was a total non-factor vs. Texas A & M. I don't think he even had 1 tackle. Kid was only a 1 year starter. I think the Colts got a good one for the future though.