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View Full Version : Do not take Aaron Williams…..



Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 12:03 PM
…over Ras-I Dowling. Dowling when healthy is a top 15 pick. He is faster than Williams, more physical, has better ball skills, and is by far a better man in coverage than Williams. And he also has played in a 3-4 defense.

Oviedo
04-28-2011, 12:12 PM
…over Ras-I Dowling. Dowling when healthy is a top 15 pick. He is faster than Williams, more physical, has better ball skills, and is by far a better man in coverage than Williams. And he also has played in a 3-4 defense.

"when healthy?"

When exactly will that be????

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 12:17 PM
…over Ras-I Dowling. Dowling when healthy is a top 15 pick. He is faster than Williams, more physical, has better ball skills, and is by far a better man in coverage than Williams. And he also has played in a 3-4 defense.

"when healthy?"

When exactly will that be????

One season of being hurt does not make you injury prone. And in case you forgot this is football. A physical, violent game. It happens. Troy Polamalu has been hurt more than Dowling. :idea:

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 12:25 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":1gnirqlv]…over Ras-I Dowling. Dowling when healthy is a top 15 pick. He is faster than Williams, more physical, has better ball skills, and is by far a better man in coverage than Williams. And he also has played in a 3-4 defense.

"when healthy?"

When exactly will that be????

One season of being hurt does not make you injury prone. And in case you forgot this is football. A physical, violent game. It happens. Troy Polamalu has been hurt more than Dowling. :idea:[/quote:1gnirqlv]


Actually Dowling has a History of injuries. Going back to his High School days. He's just played through alot of them. But this last season was far from his only injured season. Oh and BTW, Texas plays ALOT of 3-Man defensive fronts, with 5 CB's in the game. They do this about 85 % of the entire game. Don't know what Texas Defense you been watching.

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2011, 12:29 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":3lkjlndi]…over Ras-I Dowling. Dowling when healthy is a top 15 pick. He is faster than Williams, more physical, has better ball skills, and is by far a better man in coverage than Williams. And he also has played in a 3-4 defense.

"when healthy?"

When exactly will that be????

One season of being hurt does not make you injury prone. And in case you forgot this is football. A physical, violent game. It happens. Troy Polamalu has been hurt more than Dowling. :idea:


Actually Dowling has a History of injuries. Going back to his High School days. He's just played through alot of them. But this last season was far from his only injured season. Oh and BTW, Texas plays ALOT of 3-Man defensive fronts, with 5 CB's in the game. They do this about 85 % of the entire game. Don't know what Texas Defense you been watching.[/quote:3lkjlndi]

And when they played this nickel D, more often than not Aaron Williams would be playing the slot receiver while Curtis and Chykie Brown manned the outside guys. That wouldn't be my first choice for a starting outside CB in the pros. If Colbert and Tomlin deem Williams worthy, then I'll fall in line, but from what I've seen, I'm not overly enamoured with Williams at this point.

grotonsteel
04-28-2011, 12:31 PM
I am pretty sure Steelers would have done a thorough analysis between Aaron Williams, Ras-I-Dowling and Rahim Moore (Carnell lake connection there)

As long as Steelers draft a speedy, ball hawk i will be happy with the pick.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 12:32 PM
...
As long as Steelers draft a speedy, ball hawk i will be happy with the pick.

But Williams is none of these.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 12:36 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2zilu1pg]…over Ras-I Dowling. Dowling when healthy is a top 15 pick. He is faster than Williams, more physical, has better ball skills, and is by far a better man in coverage than Williams. And he also has played in a 3-4 defense.

"when healthy?"

When exactly will that be????

One season of being hurt does not make you injury prone. And in case you forgot this is football. A physical, violent game. It happens. Troy Polamalu has been hurt more than Dowling. :idea:


Actually Dowling has a History of injuries. Going back to his High School days. He's just played through alot of them. But this last season was far from his only injured season. Oh and BTW, Texas plays ALOT of 3-Man defensive fronts, with 5 CB's in the game. They do this about 85 % of the entire game. Don't know what Texas Defense you been watching.[/quote:2zilu1pg]

Hogwash. Say whatever you want but in his first three seasons Dowling played in all 35 of Virginia’s game. High school? Are you serious? Who cares what he did in high school. You are grasping for straws..and your straw is not even average in coverage. You are comparing a future NFL corner to a future NFL free safety.

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 12:36 PM
...
As long as Steelers draft a speedy, ball hawk i will be happy with the pick.

But Williams is none of these.




Who's faster, and the better Athlete ? Rahim Moore, or Aaron Williams ? Yeah, I thought so :tt1 Aaron has it ALL over Moore as a Athlete, football player and ST player which Moore has NEVER done at UCLA.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 12:53 PM
...
As long as Steelers draft a speedy, ball hawk i will be happy with the pick.

But Williams is none of these.




Who's faster, and the better Athlete ? Rahim Moore, or Aaron Williams ? Yeah, I thought so :tt1 Aaron has it ALL over Moore as a Athlete, football player and ST player which Moore has NEVER done at UCLA.

I disagree. Moore in my opinion is a better athlete and a better football player than Williams.

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 01:00 PM
[quote=grotonsteel]...
As long as Steelers draft a speedy, ball hawk i will be happy with the pick.

But Williams is none of these.




Who's faster, and the better Athlete ? Rahim Moore, or Aaron Williams ? Yeah, I thought so :tt1 Aaron has it ALL over Moore as a Athlete, football player and ST player which Moore has NEVER done at UCLA.

I disagree. Moore in my opinion is a better athlete and a better football player than Williams.[/quote:57acxokh]



You're an enity of 1. Cause no one else would agree with you. And there are no stats that prove it either. And I LIKE Rahim Moore. But you obviously have never watched any Texas football games. Aaron lined up outside about 70 % of the time. And when he did cover inside, that was because he had the better speed and quickness to cover the super fast inside slot WR's in the 5 WR sets which are commen place in the Big-12. And that right there might be Aaron's BEST asset in this draft. Take for example, in the Pac-10, none, NONE of the teams ever run a spread 5 WR offense. So Moore has no experience in this coverage. But with about 80 % of the NFL teams running a 5-WR offense, Aaron would be a great asset.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 01:12 PM
[quote=grotonsteel]...
As long as Steelers draft a speedy, ball hawk i will be happy with the pick.

But Williams is none of these.




Who's faster, and the better Athlete ? Rahim Moore, or Aaron Williams ? Yeah, I thought so :tt1 Aaron has it ALL over Moore as a Athlete, football player and ST player which Moore has NEVER done at UCLA.

I disagree. Moore in my opinion is a better athlete and a better football player than Williams.



You're an enity of 1. Cause no one else would agree with you. And there are no stats that prove it either. And I LIKE Rahim Moore. But you obviously have never watched any Texas football games. Aaron lined up outside about 70 % of the time. And when he did cover inside, that was because he had the better speed and quickness to cover the super fast inside slot WR's in the 5 WR sets which are commen place in the Big-12. And that right there might be Aaron's BEST asset in this draft. Take for example, in the Pac-10, none, NONE of the teams ever run a spread 5 WR offense. So Moore has no experience in this coverage. But with about 80 % of the NFL teams running a 5-WR offense, Aaron would be a great asset.[/quote:27nxjy0x]

Really? No stats that back this up? How about these?

Rahim Moore
2008 tackles 60 INT’s 3
2009 tackles 49 INT’s 10
2010 tackles 71 INT’s 1

Aaron Williams
2008 tackles 13 INT’s 1
2009 tackles 31 INT’s 3
2010 tackles 45 INT’s 0

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 01:29 PM
Crickets?? Do I hear crickets? Moore had better stats and it was Williams who you said played in more 5 WR sets? How is that possible?

Moore can cover receivers one on one. something the Steelers havent had at FS in a long time....Williams has struggled with that.

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 01:51 PM
Crickets?? Do I hear crickets? Moore had better stats and it was Williams who you said played in more 5 WR sets? How is that possible?

Moore can cover receivers one on one. something the Steelers havent had at FS in a long time....Williams has struggled with that.





Did you also take into account that by facing constant, 4 and 5 WR sets, and with the defense spread out that no one secondary is going to get alot of tackles. Also, of Moore's tackles, alot of them are the push the WR out of bounds variety. That's because in the open field, Moore is considered a weak tackler..( See ANY website )..as where Aaron is considered one of the best wrap-up tacklers. Not to mention, Moore has never played Special teams. So he is a weakness there. As where Williams is among the ALL TIME NCAA leaders for blocked punts..( 11 )...blocked FG ( 7 ) He is in a vastly tougher conference then Moore facing way way better offensive talent. And he is more versatile then Moore. And, he is taller-faster-stronger ( Way way stronger )...then Moore. So there :moon

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Crickets?? Do I hear crickets? Moore had better stats and it was Williams who you said played in more 5 WR sets? How is that possible?

Moore can cover receivers one on one. something the Steelers havent had at FS in a long time....Williams has struggled with that.





Did you also take into account that by facing constant, 4 and 5 WR sets, and with the defense spread out that no one secondary is going to get alot of tackles. Also, of Moore's tackles, alot of them are the push the WR out of bounds variety. That's because in the open field, Moore is considered a weak tackler..( See ANY website )..as where Aaron is considered one of the best wrap-up tacklers. Not to mention, Moore has never played Special teams. So he is a weakness there. As where Williams is among the ALL TIME NCAA leaders for blocked punts..( 11 )...blocked FG ( 7 ) He is in a vastly tougher conference then Moore facing way way better offensive talent. And he is more versatile then Moore. And, he is taller-faster-stronger ( Way way stronger )...then Moore. So there :moon

I dont need to see any website. I saw Moore play every game at UCLA. He is not as bad a tackler as you or anyone else makes him out to be.

And I believe he is better as a football player than Williams...and if they are to be compared in coverage ( and Williams will ultimately be moved to FS), then there is no comparison. Moore is far better.

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 02:03 PM
Did you also take into account that by facing constant, 4 and 5 WR sets, and with the defense spread out that no one secondary is going to get alot of tackles. Also, of Moore's tackles, alot of them are the push the WR out of bounds variety. That's because in the open field, Moore is considered a weak tackler..( See ANY website )..as where Aaron is considered one of the best wrap-up tacklers. Not to mention, Moore has never played Special teams. So he is a weakness there. As where Williams is among the ALL TIME NCAA leaders for blocked punts..( 11 )...blocked FG ( 7 ) He is in a vastly tougher conference then Moore facing way way better offensive talent. And he is more versatile then Moore. And, he is taller-faster-stronger ( Way way stronger )...then Moore. So there :moon

Oh and by the way…William Gay may be more versatile than Moore too…but what does that mean? Gay sucks.

Oh and by the way…William Gay may be more versatile than Moore too…but what does that mean? Gay sucks. At this point the Steelers need a DB who can cover and one not so much because he plays several positions in the backfield.

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 02:03 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":1528l76r]Crickets?? Do I hear crickets? Moore had better stats and it was Williams who you said played in more 5 WR sets? How is that possible?

Moore can cover receivers one on one. something the Steelers havent had at FS in a long time....Williams has struggled with that.





Did you also take into account that by facing constant, 4 and 5 WR sets, and with the defense spread out that no one secondary is going to get alot of tackles. Also, of Moore's tackles, alot of them are the push the WR out of bounds variety. That's because in the open field, Moore is considered a weak tackler..( See ANY website )..as where Aaron is considered one of the best wrap-up tacklers. Not to mention, Moore has never played Special teams. So he is a weakness there. As where Williams is among the ALL TIME NCAA leaders for blocked punts..( 11 )...blocked FG ( 7 ) He is in a vastly tougher conference then Moore facing way way better offensive talent. And he is more versatile then Moore. And, he is taller-faster-stronger ( Way way stronger )...then Moore. So there :moon

I dont need to see any website. I saw Moore play every game at UCLA. He is not as bad a tackler as you or anyone else makes him out to be.

And I believe he is better as a football player than Williams...and if they are to be compared in coverage ( and Williams will ultimately be moved to FS), then there is no comparison. Moore is far better.[/quote:1528l76r]




Really, then why doesn't " Rick Gosselin " have him in his Last Mock Draft ?.....I mean IF he is so great :Bow

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 02:05 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":33cjmobg]Crickets?? Do I hear crickets? Moore had better stats and it was Williams who you said played in more 5 WR sets? How is that possible?

Moore can cover receivers one on one. something the Steelers havent had at FS in a long time....Williams has struggled with that.





Did you also take into account that by facing constant, 4 and 5 WR sets, and with the defense spread out that no one secondary is going to get alot of tackles. Also, of Moore's tackles, alot of them are the push the WR out of bounds variety. That's because in the open field, Moore is considered a weak tackler..( See ANY website )..as where Aaron is considered one of the best wrap-up tacklers. Not to mention, Moore has never played Special teams. So he is a weakness there. As where Williams is among the ALL TIME NCAA leaders for blocked punts..( 11 )...blocked FG ( 7 ) He is in a vastly tougher conference then Moore facing way way better offensive talent. And he is more versatile then Moore. And, he is taller-faster-stronger ( Way way stronger )...then Moore. So there :moon

I dont need to see any website. I saw Moore play every game at UCLA. He is not as bad a tackler as you or anyone else makes him out to be.

And I believe he is better as a football player than Williams...and if they are to be compared in coverage ( and Williams will ultimately be moved to FS), then there is no comparison. Moore is far better.




Really, then why doesn't " Rick Gosselin " have him in his Last Mock Draft ?.....I mean IF he is so great :Bow[/quote:33cjmobg]

Who cares?? And if you do and base what you think on Rick Gosselin's thoughts then I guess we are done here. :roll: It says it all. :wink:

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 02:28 PM
So you wanna take a one demensional FS who can Intercept passes huh ? Oh great, in other words, the NEXT " Carlton Gray "........Ah, how did he tuen out ? And Gray was considered a BETTER FS from UCLA then Moore is. :owned

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 02:40 PM
So you wanna take a one demensional FS who can Intercept passes huh ? Oh great, in other words, the NEXT " Carlton Gray "........Ah, how did he tuen out ? And Gray was considered a BETTER FS from UCLA then Moore is. :owned

No…when I see Rahim Moore I am seeing possibly..another Ed Reed (coverage wise, ball skills wise). And at FS covering and being one dimensional is what this teams needs. A true compliment to what Troy does. This will actually free up Troy more. The middle seem is a problem for the Steelers in coverage ( see games versus, Packers, Saints, and Patriots). Rahim Moore will solve that problem.

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 02:45 PM
So you wanna take a one demensional FS who can Intercept passes huh ? Oh great, in other words, the NEXT " Carlton Gray "........Ah, how did he tuen out ? And Gray was considered a BETTER FS from UCLA then Moore is. :owned

No…when (coverage wise, ball skills wise). And at FS covering and being one dimensional is what this teams needs. A true compliment to what Troy does. This will actually free up Troy more. The middle seem is a problem for the Steelers in coverage ( see games versus, Packers, Saints, and Patriots). Rahim Moore will solve that problem.





I see Rahim Moore I am seeing possibly..another Ed Reed ?....What the hell do you call Carlton Gray ? When Rahim Moore had those 9 picks in 2009, who do you think the ALL TIME Single season leader with 10 picks was ? ( Carlton Gray )...who had more career Interceptions at UCLA ?...Moore, or Gray ? ( Carlton Gray )


Ed Reed had way more whicked skills in college. He was a vicious run defender. And a special teams Ace ( Just like Aaron Williams )...who returned Punts and kickoffs. Did Moore EVER do that ? ( NO!! )...So how you can compare him to a Physically vicious, and STORNG player like Reed is ridiculous :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dee Dub
04-28-2011, 02:48 PM
So you wanna take a one demensional FS who can Intercept passes huh ? Oh great, in other words, the NEXT " Carlton Gray "........Ah, how did he tuen out ? And Gray was considered a BETTER FS from UCLA then Moore is. :owned

No…when (coverage wise, ball skills wise). And at FS covering and being one dimensional is what this teams needs. A true compliment to what Troy does. This will actually free up Troy more. The middle seem is a problem for the Steelers in coverage ( see games versus, Packers, Saints, and Patriots). Rahim Moore will solve that problem.





I see Rahim Moore I am seeing possibly..another Ed Reed ?....What the hell do you call Carlton Gray ? When Rahim Moore had those 9 picks in 2009, who do you think the ALL TIME Single season leader with 10 picks was ? ( Carlton Gray )...who had more career Interceptions at UCLA ?...Moore, or Gray ? ( Carlton Gray )


Ed Reed had way more whicked skills in college. He was a vicious run defender. And a special teams Ace ( Just like Aaron Williams )...who returned Punts and kickoffs. Did Moore EVER do that ? ( NO!! )...So how you can compare him to a Physically vicious, and STORNG player like Reed is ridiculous :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's not what I said. I said coverage wise. The words physically in comparisons to Ed Reed didnt even come out of my mouth. Not to mention your adding the Punt and kickoffs comment.

MaxAMillion
04-28-2011, 03:15 PM
Well, Every team is most likely going to pass on Dowling in round one so clearly coaches and scouts who have watched him have questions. These proclamations as fact always amuse me. Some said we shouldn't draft Pouncey in round 1 because you don't draft centers that high. We should have drafted Lendale White because we desperately needed a big back to replace Bettis.

Everyone seems to know definitively how a prospect will perform when they get into the league even though have done about 1/1000th of the scounting on a player that the teams have done.

I have my favorites like everyone else, but I would never assume that a Steelers first round draft choice is a mistake before he has played a down.

RuthlessBurgher
04-28-2011, 03:33 PM
Well, Every team is most likely going to pass on Dowling in round one so clearly coaches and scouts who have watched him have questions. These proclamations as fact always amuse me. Some said we shouldn't draft Pouncey in round 1 because you don't draft centers that high. We should have drafted Lendale White because we desperately needed a big back to replace Bettis.

Everyone seems to know definitively how a prospect will perform when they get into the league even though have done about 1/1000th of the scounting on a player that the teams have done.

I have my favorites like everyone else, but I would never assume that a Steelers first round draft choice is a mistake before he has played a down.

Except when they reach for wideout in Troy Edwards because Torry Holt and David Boston were off the board, when they should have taken the best player available (either Javon Kearse or John Tait) instead. Knew that one was a mistake right off the bat. But, yes, I usually give the team the benefit of the doubt, and they typically prove themselves to be correct more often than not.

insanesteelersfan
04-28-2011, 03:37 PM
Well, Every team is most likely going to pass on Dowling in round one so clearly coaches and scouts who have watched him have questions. These proclamations as fact always amuse me. Some said we shouldn't draft Pouncey in round 1 because you don't draft centers that high. We should have drafted Lendale White because we desperately needed a big back to replace Bettis.

Everyone seems to know definitively how a prospect will perform when they get into the league even though have done about 1/1000th of the scounting on a player that the teams have done.

I have my favorites like everyone else, but I would never assume that a Steelers first round draft choice is a mistake before he has played a down.

Except when they reach for wideout in Troy Edwards because Torry Holt and David Boston were off the board, when they should have taken the best player available (either Javon Kearse or John Tait) instead. Knew that one was a mistake right off the bat. But, yes, I usually give the team the benefit of the doubt, and they typically prove themselves to be correct more often than not.



I absolutely agree. And even IF Cowher still wanted Edwards, there was no way he was ever going to be picked anywhere in the first 25 picks. So why not trade down ? Even if you only say ask for a single 4th rounder to move down say 2 to 3 spots from 13 to 16, and then again from 16 to 19, ect. We still could have drafted Edwards, and had an extra 3 to 4 late round draft picks.

Ole Cowher really screwed the pooch on that one.

SteelCrazy
04-28-2011, 05:43 PM
I dont like Williams or Moore at the 31 spot. If thats the best we can get I hope we trade out..........

SteelerOfDeVille
04-29-2011, 02:09 AM
if moore's hanging around late 2nd, it might be worth a trade up - he's a solid FS...

RuthlessBurgher
04-29-2011, 02:17 AM
if moore's hanging around late 2nd, it might be worth a trade up - he's a solid FS...

I agree, somewhat. Corner is a bigger immediate need than free safety at this point, so that would be my first priority. I'd be willing to give up our 3rd to move up to the middle of round two to get a top notch CB that we like such as Ras-I Dowling. For Moore, I would not be willing to give up that 3rd, because I would still want to have that in my back pocket to use on a needed corner (like, say, Curtis Marsh). If I was going to trade up for a FS like Moore, I would only be willing to give up my 4th rounder, which would only vault us up a half-dozen picks or so, so he'd have to fall into the mid-to-late 50's before I could reasonably consider such a move (I don't think it's very likely, but you never know...especially when you consider some of the headscratchers that occurred today).