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Dee Dub
04-26-2011, 12:50 PM
Why would you draft Aaron Williams with a high round draft pick (possibly a first), to ultimately make the switch to play Free Safety when he isnt even the best Free Safety on the board? Why would you not want a true Free Safety, one who is as good in coverage as this draft has, in Rahim Moore? e plays that position as good as you would want one to play it. It makes no sense and some team is going to make a huge mistake if they do this.

I hope it isnt the Steelers.

Oviedo
04-26-2011, 12:54 PM
Why would you draft Aaron Williams with a high round draft pick (possibly a first), to ultimately make the switch to play Free Safety when he isnt even the best Free Safety on the board? Why would you not want a true Free Safety, one who is as good in coverage as this draft has, in Rahim Moore? e plays that position as good as you would want one to play it. It makes no sense and some team is going to make a huge mistake if they do this.

I hope it isnt the Steelers.

I've read where many believe he is the best FS on the board it is just he is auditioning as a CB initially. Many feel his skill set exceeds that of Rahim Moore.

I'm OK with them drafting him even if he doesn't work out at CB. We could use a big improvement at FS and Clark is likely only here a couple of more years.

Dee Dub
04-26-2011, 01:15 PM
Why would you draft Aaron Williams with a high round draft pick (possibly a first), to ultimately make the switch to play Free Safety when he isnt even the best Free Safety on the board? Why would you not want a true Free Safety, one who is as good in coverage as this draft has, in Rahim Moore? e plays that position as good as you would want one to play it. It makes no sense and some team is going to make a huge mistake if they do this.

I hope it isnt the Steelers.

I've read where many believe he is the best FS on the board it is just he is auditioning as a CB initially. Many feel his skill set exceeds that of Rahim Moore.

I'm OK with them drafting him even if he doesn't work out at CB. We could use a big improvement at FS and Clark is likely only here a couple of more years.

Well that is simply based on projection not actually have yet ever played that position.
How can those "many" who say this actually say that when Williams has actually never played FS?

That right there is a classic draft mistake. A miss waiting to happen.

Skill set all you want, Rahim Moore blew it up at Free Safety on the field. He as good a cover safety as you will find. And that, more over than a skill set, is what you want out of your free safety.

steelblood
04-26-2011, 01:21 PM
I've really soured on Williams. I like his size and athleticism, but the only role he's had success at was nickel corner. He was not a great outside corner when asked to do that. Chykie Brown was ahead of him on the outside until he got injured. The potential is there, but that scares me.

I sure hope the Steelers are able to trade back.

WoodleyofTroy
04-26-2011, 01:34 PM
I'd be happy with either one.

ikestops85
04-26-2011, 01:43 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2z8larhm]Why would you draft Aaron Williams with a high round draft pick (possibly a first), to ultimately make the switch to play Free Safety when he isnt even the best Free Safety on the board? Why would you not want a true Free Safety, one who is as good in coverage as this draft has, in Rahim Moore? e plays that position as good as you would want one to play it. It makes no sense and some team is going to make a huge mistake if they do this.

I hope it isnt the Steelers.

I've read where many believe he is the best FS on the board it is just he is auditioning as a CB initially. Many feel his skill set exceeds that of Rahim Moore.

I'm OK with them drafting him even if he doesn't work out at CB. We could use a big improvement at FS and Clark is likely only here a couple of more years.

Well that is simply based on projection not actually have yet ever played that position.
How can those "many" who say this actually say that when Williams has actually never played FS?

That right there is a classic draft mistake. A miss waiting to happen.

Skill set all you want, Rahim Moore blew it up at Free Safety on the field. He as good a cover safety as you will find. And that, more over than a skill set, is what you want out of your free safety.[/quote:2z8larhm]

We do this all the time. Woodley never played linebacker and Timmons never played on the inside. They've worked out pretty well. Coaches and scouts look at skill sets and see where those skill sets will best fit in on the team.

and to speak directly to the safety position ... Carnell Lake played outside linebacker for UCLA. He turned out to be a helluva safety for us ... and a pretty good corner when asked.

Oviedo
04-26-2011, 01:48 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":32dm1a5y]Why would you draft Aaron Williams with a high round draft pick (possibly a first), to ultimately make the switch to play Free Safety when he isnt even the best Free Safety on the board? Why would you not want a true Free Safety, one who is as good in coverage as this draft has, in Rahim Moore? e plays that position as good as you would want one to play it. It makes no sense and some team is going to make a huge mistake if they do this.

I hope it isnt the Steelers.

I've read where many believe he is the best FS on the board it is just he is auditioning as a CB initially. Many feel his skill set exceeds that of Rahim Moore.

I'm OK with them drafting him even if he doesn't work out at CB. We could use a big improvement at FS and Clark is likely only here a couple of more years.

Well that is simply based on projection not actually have yet ever played that position.
How can those "many" who say this actually say that when Williams has actually never played FS?

That right there is a classic draft mistake. A miss waiting to happen.

Skill set all you want, Rahim Moore blew it up at Free Safety on the field. He as good a cover safety as you will find. And that, more over than a skill set, is what you want out of your free safety.

We do this all the time. Woodley never played linebacker and Timmons never played on the inside. They've worked out pretty well. Coaches and scouts look at skill sets and see where those skill sets will best fit in on the team.

and to speak directly to the safety position ... Carnell Lake played outside linebacker for UCLA. He turned out to be a helluva safety for us ... and a pretty good corner when asked.[/quote:32dm1a5y]

I was about to make the same point. Thanks for beating me to it.

Dee Dub
04-26-2011, 01:57 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2zqqs013]Why would you draft Aaron Williams with a high round draft pick (possibly a first), to ultimately make the switch to play Free Safety when he isnt even the best Free Safety on the board? Why would you not want a true Free Safety, one who is as good in coverage as this draft has, in Rahim Moore? e plays that position as good as you would want one to play it. It makes no sense and some team is going to make a huge mistake if they do this.

I hope it isnt the Steelers.

I've read where many believe he is the best FS on the board it is just he is auditioning as a CB initially. Many feel his skill set exceeds that of Rahim Moore.

I'm OK with them drafting him even if he doesn't work out at CB. We could use a big improvement at FS and Clark is likely only here a couple of more years.

Well that is simply based on projection not actually have yet ever played that position.
How can those "many" who say this actually say that when Williams has actually never played FS?

That right there is a classic draft mistake. A miss waiting to happen.

Skill set all you want, Rahim Moore blew it up at Free Safety on the field. He as good a cover safety as you will find. And that, more over than a skill set, is what you want out of your free safety.

We do this all the time. Woodley never played linebacker and Timmons never played on the inside. They've worked out pretty well. Coaches and scouts look at skill sets and see where those skill sets will best fit in on the team.

and to speak directly to the safety position ... Carnell Lake played outside linebacker for UCLA. He turned out to be a helluva safety for us ... and a pretty good corner when asked.

I was about to make the same point. Thanks for beating me to it.[/quote:2zqqs013]

But in this case, with Williams' lack of ability to cover, this move is very risky. Being an undersized LB (Carnell Lake), who is moving to to a position that he he is physically better suited for that doesn't require the same skill set of coverage at SS that a FS requires is a little different. An undersized DE in a 4-3 is still an edge rusher when he moves to OLB in a 3-4. His primary function hasnt changed with his new position.

insanesteelersfan
04-26-2011, 02:11 PM
How many games did Carlton Haselrig play in college before we drafted him ?

RuthlessBurgher
04-26-2011, 02:34 PM
How many games did Carlton Haselrig play in college before we drafted him ?

We'll be sure to take a wrestler the next time we have a 12th round pick. :wink:

BradshawsHairdresser
04-26-2011, 02:35 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

Oviedo
04-26-2011, 02:55 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-26-2011, 03:17 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

wow.

never seen you make this point before.

if he is ready i'm sure lebeau will get him on the field, but keep bashing the guy whos defense consistently ranks in the top 5 in the league.

Northern_Blitz
04-26-2011, 03:46 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

WoodleyofTroy
04-26-2011, 05:09 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.

Oviedo
04-26-2011, 05:25 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.


Ding! Ding! Ding! A winner.

The system does not allow young players to contribute because it is too freaking complicated. The only people we are confusing at times are our own players.

Dom Capers introduced the same type of defense and had rookies playing from Day 1. Why not ours????

BradshawsHairdresser
04-26-2011, 05:56 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.


Ding! Ding! Ding! A winner.

The system does not allow young players to contribute because it is too freaking complicated. The only people we are confusing at times are our own players.

Dom Capers introduced the same type of defense and had rookies playing from Day 1. Why not ours????
Yeah, but that Dom Capers...his defense will never amount to anything... Everyone knows he could certainly never outdo LeBeau. :D

ikestops85
04-27-2011, 12:32 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.


Ding! Ding! Ding! A winner.

The system does not allow young players to contribute because it is too freaking complicated. The only people we are confusing at times are our own players.

Dom Capers introduced the same type of defense and had rookies playing from Day 1. Why not ours????

Because the Pack had lousy players in front of the rookies. That is not the case with the Steelers. The Pack was forced to throw the newbies into the fire and have them learn on the fly.

The Steelers could do the same thing but since we have solid veterans we don't have to put up with the rookie mistakes.

My question back to you is ... Who had a better defense last year, us or the Packers?

RuthlessBurgher
04-27-2011, 01:36 PM
He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.


Ding! Ding! Ding! A winner.

The system does not allow young players to contribute because it is too freaking complicated. The only people we are confusing at times are our own players.

Dom Capers introduced the same type of defense and had rookies playing from Day 1. Why not ours????
Yeah, but that Dom Capers...his defense will never amount to anything... Everyone knows he could certainly never outdo LeBeau. :D

When you are converting from a 4-3 to a 3-4, like Capers did 2 years ago in Green Bay, no one on the roster is familiar with the new scheme, regardless of whether they are vets or rookies. Actually, rookies may have an advantage in this case, since they can be molded into what you want them to be from the start while the vets have certain tendencies already ingrained in them that are difficult to change (can't teach an old dog new tricks). In our case, the inwexperienced rooks are competing against vets who already know the 3-4 system like the back of their hand. Apples to oranges comparison.

grotonsteel
04-27-2011, 02:11 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.


Ding! Ding! Ding! A winner.

The system does not allow young players to contribute because it is too freaking complicated. The only people we are confusing at times are our own players.

Dom Capers introduced the same type of defense and had rookies playing from Day 1. Why not ours????


+1

They had late round draft picks playing at pro-bowl level in Dom Capers Defense.

grotonsteel
04-27-2011, 02:21 PM
Because the Pack had lousy players in front of the rookies. That is not the case with the Steelers. The Pack was forced to throw the newbies into the fire and have them learn on the fly.

The Steelers could do the same thing but since we have solid veterans we don't have to put up with the rookie mistakes.

My question back to you is ... Who had a better defense last year, us or the Packers?

I agree that Steelers have solid veterans and it is difficult to replace them especially in a rookie season.

But i can't think of any veteran CB who played all pro on Steelers Defense. Ike was above average. McFadden and Gay both were horrible. I don't want to even discuss Anthony Madison. Its a shame when Anthony Madison is preferred over Lewis or Butler just because he knows the play book. Its similar to Tyrone Carter situation. My point is whose responsibility it is to scout, draft and develop young DBs.

I think Colbert said it best "Young cornerbacks on the roster are unknown.

birtikidis
04-27-2011, 02:26 PM
I'd rather see us take Moore than Williams. Especially if we would actually get him on the field and playing this season. But more than either of those guys, I would like to see us get someone who could step in at CB and play at a high level from the get-go. Isn't apt to happen, but that's what I'd like to see.

He's a defensive player so LeBeau won't let him or Williams play. History show he'd feel more comfortable with Anthony Madison playing so I guess it is a moot point.

Guys don't have to be starters to make an impact. Woodley had a great rookie year as a rotation guy. The same thing can be done in the secondary, especially when we get more than 4 DBs on the field - you know the "blue print" other teams use for beating us.

Mentioning Woodley helps Oviedo's case, as Clark Haggans got the start that year only because of the veteran tag.
Woodley was even quoted that dropping into coverage was a difficulty he had his first year. he was a DE that didn't know coverage responsibilities. If you played him just because then you're retarded.

RuthlessBurgher
04-27-2011, 03:40 PM
Because the Pack had lousy players in front of the rookies. That is not the case with the Steelers. The Pack was forced to throw the newbies into the fire and have them learn on the fly.

The Steelers could do the same thing but since we have solid veterans we don't have to put up with the rookie mistakes.

My question back to you is ... Who had a better defense last year, us or the Packers?

I agree that Steelers have solid veterans and it is difficult to replace them especially in a rookie season.

But i can't think of any veteran CB who played all pro on Steelers Defense. Ike was above average. McFadden and Gay both were horrible. I don't want to even discuss Anthony Madison. Its a shame when Anthony Madison is preferred over Lewis or Butler just because he knows the play book. Its similar to Tyrone Carter situation. My point is whose responsibility it is to scout, draft and develop young DBs.

I think Colbert said it best "Young cornerbacks on the roster are unknown.

Ray Horton underperformed here for years as DB coach (and for that, he got rewarded with a promotion to D.C. in Arizona...thank God that the Rooneys hired Tomlin and not Whis or Grimm). I expect better development of our young DB's with Carnell Lake coaching our secondary.

grotonsteel
04-27-2011, 06:03 PM
Because the Pack had lousy players in front of the rookies. That is not the case with the Steelers. The Pack was forced to throw the newbies into the fire and have them learn on the fly.

The Steelers could do the same thing but since we have solid veterans we don't have to put up with the rookie mistakes.

My question back to you is ... Who had a better defense last year, us or the Packers?

I agree that Steelers have solid veterans and it is difficult to replace them especially in a rookie season.

But i can't think of any veteran CB who played all pro on Steelers Defense. Ike was above average. McFadden and Gay both were horrible. I don't want to even discuss Anthony Madison. Its a shame when Anthony Madison is preferred over Lewis or Butler just because he knows the play book. Its similar to Tyrone Carter situation. My point is whose responsibility it is to scout, draft and develop young DBs.

I think Colbert said it best "Young cornerbacks on the roster are unknown.

Ray Horton underperformed here for years as DB coach (and for that, he got rewarded with a promotion to D.C. in Arizona...thank God that the Rooneys hired Tomlin and not Whis or Grimm). I expect better development of our young DB's with Carnell Lake coaching our secondary.


I certainly hope Carnell Lake does a better job at that position. I am pretty sure Lake would have given a great field report to Steelers FO on Rahim Moore since he coached Moore in 2009.

RuthlessBurgher
04-27-2011, 07:23 PM
I certainly hope Carnell Lake does a better job at that position. I am pretty sure Lake would have given a great field report to Steelers FO on Rahim Moore since he coached Moore in 2009.

Rahim Moore with Carnell Lake as his DB coach in 2009: 10 interceptions.

Rahim Moore without Carnell Lake as his DB coach in 2010: 1 interception.

Dee Dub
04-27-2011, 07:26 PM
I certainly hope Carnell Lake does a better job at that position. I am pretty sure Lake would have given a great field report to Steelers FO on Rahim Moore since he coached Moore in 2009.

Rahim Moore with Carnell Lake as his DB coach in 2009: 10 interceptions.

Rahim Moore without Carnell Lake as his DB coach in 2010: 1 interception.

That really had very little to do with Carnell Lake not being there in 2010. Teams did not throw at him in 2010. That happens when you pick 10 in one season. I saw everyone of Moore's games. Trust me it didnt have to do with Lake not being there.