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Chadman
04-17-2011, 10:41 PM
Given that Franchises live & die by the quality of their QB play (most often), and given that the QB play of the Carolina Panthers was....let's just say poor...

Would it make Ron Rivera the bravest coach in football if he chose someone other than Cam Newton at #1?

He's in a no-win situation in many respects. If he chooses Newton, and Newton doesn't shine- Rivera bungled his first draft. If he chooses a defensive player- and McCoy sucks all year & the Panthers stink- Rivera bungled his first draft. If Newton is drafted elsewhere & succeeds- Rivera bungled his first draft. If Newton is picked #1- he was overdrafted- Rivera bungled his first draft...

Personally, Chadman WOULD choose Newton #1 if he was the Panthers coach- having Ben has proven that success is derived not from a strong overall team, but from elite QB play (although having a strong overall team helps). But Newton is in no way a safe pick.

What if.....the Panthers traded #1 overall to the Eagles for Kolb & #23?

papillon
04-17-2011, 10:47 PM
I don't know if he'd be the bravest coach in the world if he were to pass on Newton, but he'd probably be better off in the long run. The Panthers need so much help that if I were the coach of the Panthers I'd take a player at 1.1 that is almost certainly going to be an outstanding player for a long time rather than a quarterback that didn't play in a pro style offense, wasn't under center often, was a one read quarterback and if it wasn't open took off running. Newton isn't Michael Vick; if runs a lot in the NFL he'll be banged up even Vick got banged up last year and he's as elusive a target as there has ever been in the NFL.

Pappy

Djfan
04-17-2011, 11:04 PM
Kolb is a great trade. That would be something I would look at hard.

papillon
04-17-2011, 11:22 PM
Kolb is a great trade. That would be something I would look at hard.

Absolutely, a pretty good quarterback with NFL experience over a college quarterback with great upside, but with no pro-style offense experience. Yup, I'd do it and without hesitation.

Unfortunately, for the Panthers, I don't believe you can trade players due to the lockout.

Pappy

NJ-STEELER
04-18-2011, 01:11 AM
if they take a defensive player and then tank the season

they have Luck waiting for them next year.

luck and those 2 RBs plus gross and otah.....thats not a bad starting point for an offense

StarSpangledSteeler
04-18-2011, 02:05 AM
He's in a no-win situation in many respects.


I think therein lies the answer. The word "win". Which prospect gives Rivera the most additional wins within the next two years? (because that's how he keeps his job). Even though I believe Cam will not be an elite NFL QB, he may be enough a weapon to generate a few more wins than whatever second rate QB they can bring in. (And yes that includes Kolb IMHO.) This league is built to help QB's produce, and I believe Cam is certainly capable of winning more games immediately than any DL.

RuthlessBurgher
04-18-2011, 01:17 PM
Kolb is a great trade. That would be something I would look at hard.

Absolutely, a pretty good quarterback with NFL experience over a college quarterback with great upside, but with no pro-style offense experience. Yup, I'd do it and without hesitation.

Unfortunately, for the Panthers, I don't believe you can trade players due to the lockout.

Pappy

Correct. I'm sure the Iggles would love to use Kolb as trade bait to go up and get a stud like Patrick Peterson to put opposite Asante Samuel. But, alas, the trade Chadman suggests would not be allowed as long as the players and owners are facing off against each other in a Minnesota courtroom.

feltdizz
04-18-2011, 05:42 PM
The Panthers would be fools to pass on Cam Newton. If they pass on him and he turns into an elite QB they would never hear the end of it. If they choose him and he stinks it would suck but at least they tried. Cam isn't Vick, he isn't as fast as Vick but he is huge compared to Vick.

Here is the real reason why Carolina needs Cam... the OL is ehhh and Clausen was running for his life like a scared child even though he had that awesome pro style offense in college. Cam can extend plays and he has a decent arm so he will make teams pay when they blitz.

Carolina needs a guy to excite the fan base and after Delhomme, Moore and Clausen it would be foolish to pick up Kolb and a defensive tackle or a corner. The Carolina D wasnt the problem, the running game wasn't a problem. The QB is the problem and you have to take a chance on a guy like Cam. While everyone thinks he made one read and tucked it he showed he could beat teams with his arm when they forced him to be a passer.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-19-2011, 11:04 AM
My question when it comes to making a big move like this - in any sport - is "Do you see him as your guy when it is time for you to make a run at a championship?"

If you are going to draft Newton you must be absolutely sold on him and you must be prepared to cater your offense to his talents. Do not bring in a guy like this and then try to handcuff him into playing a traditional pro style QB - if you do then it is your fault when it fails. If not then build the D with Dareus or Peterson, build the receiving corps with Green to go opposite Smith, and take your QB in the second, wait until next year, or wait until your team is a QB away and go after a top FA QB.

feltdizz
04-19-2011, 11:23 AM
How can any Steeler fan say Carolina should pass on a QB for a defender? We know first hand what happens when you don't go after the QB who is sitting right in front of you.

Will it work? Who knows... but you don't know if you don't try.

RuthlessBurgher
04-19-2011, 11:59 AM
My question when it comes to making a big move like this - in any sport - is "Do you see him as your guy when it is time for you to make a run at a championship?"

If you are going to draft Newton you must be absolutely sold on him and you must be prepared to cater your offense to his talents. Do not bring in a guy like this and then try to handcuff him into playing a traditional pro style QB - if you do then it is your fault when it fails. If not then build the D with Dareus or Peterson, build the receiving corps with Green to go opposite Smith, and take your QB in the second, wait until next year, or wait until your team is a QB away and go after a top FA QB.

Carolina stupidly traded away their 2011 2nd round pick to New England for a late 3rd round pick last year (used to get Appalachian St. QB Armanti Edwards, who they wanted to convert to a WR). Belichick now owns the exceedingly marketable 33rd overall pick that other teams will pine over all day on Friday until the draft starts again.

flippy
04-20-2011, 07:48 AM
What if they took Blaine Gabbert instead? He's got the size, arm, and smarts to be about the best QB prospect in the draft imho.

So what if he played primarily out of the shotgun. I have a feeling that this is the kid that can come in and lead a team from day 1 and wouldn't be surprised if this is the kid that Carolina really likes.

Plus if you're making a major investment with a 1st overall pick, do you really want to risk paying a guy with character issues?

feltdizz
04-20-2011, 09:17 AM
What if they took Blaine Gabbert instead? He's got the size, arm, and smarts to be about the best QB prospect in the draft imho.

So what if he played primarily out of the shotgun. I have a feeling that this is the kid that can come in and lead a team from day 1 and wouldn't be surprised if this is the kid that Carolina really likes.

Plus if you're making a major investment with a 1st overall pick, do you really want to risk paying a guy with character issues?

I can honestly say I have never seen a Blaine Gabbert highlight in college. Everytime they talk about him the clips they show are rather pedestrian.

What character issues does Cam Newton have besides the laptop issue at Florida?

Are people really using his Dad's payment as a character issue? That is business as usual in the SEC. Cam is getting some serious hate and I don't understand why. Some guy actually said his smile is fake and that's why he doesn't trust him.

flippy
04-20-2011, 12:01 PM
I have no issue with Cam and like him as a prospect. But everyone questions his character in some way or another. And that is just a risk to consider with #1 pick money.

IMHO, Cam and Blaine have a little Big Ben in them and both can be great QBs. But with the NFL being 90% mental and hearing so much about Blaine's football intelligence, I get the feeling he sounds about perfect and get the idea some coach is gonna love him. And it's gonna be his mental makeup that separates him from other QBs in the class - assuming equal talent.

The clips I've seen of him, he can make all the necessary throws and he can move in the pocket. The only knock on him is he takes the majority of his snaps from the shotgun. I don't think that's a huge deal. Being a QB is about understanding the system, understanding the defenses, and making throws. And Blaine looks like he's got the most potential imho.

That's not taking away anything from Cam. I've seen much more of Cam and like what I see.

And Carolina will be fine with or without using a #1 pick on a QB. They will improve their defense and get back to running the ball. And even though I hate Clausen, he can win in this system.

The safest picks considering the money the 1st player gets would be Green or Peterson. And it'd be a toss up re: who could help Carolina the most. Peterson would be a huge plus for the defense. And Green would instantly upgrade what they can do on offense. Clausen would have to be able to succeed with that running game and throwing to Smith and Green. They'd be loaded and could target a 2nd round QB or going after someone in FA.

feltdizz
04-20-2011, 12:57 PM
I have no issue with Cam and like him as a prospect. But everyone questions his character in some way or another. And that is just a risk to consider with #1 pick money.

IMHO, Cam and Blaine have a little Big Ben in them and both can be great QBs. But with the NFL being 90% mental and hearing so much about Blaine's football intelligence, I get the feeling he sounds about perfect and get the idea some coach is gonna love him. And it's gonna be his mental makeup that separates him from other QBs in the class - assuming equal talent.

The clips I've seen of him, he can make all the necessary throws and he can move in the pocket. The only knock on him is he takes the majority of his snaps from the shotgun. I don't think that's a huge deal. Being a QB is about understanding the system, understanding the defenses, and making throws. And Blaine looks like he's got the most potential imho.

That's not taking away anything from Cam. I've seen much more of Cam and like what I see.

And Carolina will be fine with or without using a #1 pick on a QB. They will improve their defense and get back to running the ball. And even though I hate Clausen, he can win in this system.

The safest picks considering the money the 1st player gets would be Green or Peterson. And it'd be a toss up re: who could help Carolina the most. Peterson would be a huge plus for the defense. And Green would instantly upgrade what they can do on offense. Clausen would have to be able to succeed with that running game and throwing to Smith and Green. They'd be loaded and could target a 2nd round QB or going after someone in FA.

Carolina cannot win with Clausen. Trust me, he is terrified. He throws a helluva tight spiral out of bounds but that is about it. If he starts next season I bet you Carolina has about 8 games blacked out because all the fans say they won't watch him. Clausen is a prime example of "pro style smoke and mirrors in college"

Some guys have it and some don't. I think Cam has it.. I doubt Blaine does.. Clausen does not.

The character issues people speak of with Cam don't exist. It's the mock draft board guys trying to get him to sink. I think Cam winning a championship with all those distractions shows how mentally tough he really is.

Just wanted to add a few things about Gabbert. He had 16 TD's last year, less production than Chase Daniels and he never took snaps under center. So this means his footwork will be horrendous. I'm really shocked he is getting any hype at all.