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hawaiiansteel
04-12-2011, 05:26 PM
Speedy Marshall LB Mario Harvey on Steelers' radar

Linebacker ran in high 4.3, low 4.4 range

Aaron Wilson
APRIL 12, 2011


Speedy Marshall linebacker Mario Harvey was ultra-productive for the Thundering Herd, posting 420 career tackles.

However, the All-Conference USA selection really boosted his NFL draft prospects with an outstanding 40-yard dash time during his campus Pro Day workout. He ran between 4.42 and 4.46 seconds.

And the 5-foot-11, 250-pounder bench pressed 225 pounds 27 times with a 32 inch vertical leap, a 9-5 broad jump, a 4.19 short shuttle and a 7.13 three-cone drill.

The NFL definitely took notice.

Harvey has visits with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Arizona Cardinals and the Jacksonville Jaguars, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.

The Baltimore Ravens are another team that has displayed interest in Harvey, who arrived at Marshall as an undersized freshman with academic issues.

Last season, he recorded 143 tackles, 17 1/2 for losses, 8 1/2 sacks, three forced fumbles and a fumble recovery.

As a junior, he posted 117 tackles, 8 1/2 for losses, seven sacks and was named first-team all-conference.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Spe ... radar.html (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Speedy-Marshall-LB-Mario-Harvey-on-Steelers-radar.html)

focosteeler
04-12-2011, 06:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs

steelblood
04-12-2011, 06:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs

Thanks for posting the link. It confirmed what I saw when watching the NFLPA (formerly Texas v the Nation) Game. Harvey is fast in a straight line and loves to hit. However, he is very stiff (especially in coverage) and has questionable instincts. Further, he loses to TEs and FBs in the hole too often. I prefer Tressor Baptiste. Baptiste is a little lighter (235-240) and won't be quite as fast in a straight line, but he has superior instincts and has the flexibility to wiggle through holes and hit folks in the backfield before they get going. He also has the change of direction agility to be effective in coverage. Both Baptiste and Harvey played in the NFLPA game together. Against similar competition with the same rules, Baptiste was a force and Harvey was pedestrian at best. Harvey's greatest assets are his straight-line speed and bulk. The problem is that both are negated by his slow reactions and inability to change directions. Baptiste plays faster and more fluidly than Harvey.

Chadman
04-12-2011, 06:38 PM
Hmm...not convinced he's better the Stevenson Sylvester..

StarSpangledSteeler
04-12-2011, 06:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs

Thanks for posting the link. It confirmed what I saw when watching the NFLPA (formerly Texas v the Nation) Game. Harvey is fast in a straight line and loves to hit. However, he is very stiff (especially in coverage) and has questionable instincts. Further, he loses to TEs and FBs in the hole too often. Harvey's greatest assets are his straight-line speed and bulk. The problem is that both are negated by his slow reactions and inability to change directions.

I was going to post the same thing but you worded it even better than I. Agreed on all points.

hawaiiansteel
04-12-2011, 08:26 PM
Hmm...not convinced he's better the Stevenson Sylvester..

Mario Harvey doesn't need to be...next season will most likely be James Farrior's last and Keyaron Fox is an UFA we probably won't re-sign after some of his bone-headed ST plays last year.

and Larry Foote is not a long-term answer at ILB either, so there's definitely room for another young ILB who can contribute right away on STs, just like Sylvester did last season.

steelblood
04-16-2011, 09:27 AM
Hmm...not convinced he's better the Stevenson Sylvester..

Mario Harvey doesn't need to be...next season will most likely be James Farrior's last and Keyaron Fox is an UFA we probably won't re-sign after some of his bone-headed ST plays last year.

and Larry Foote is not a long-term answer at ILB either, so there's definitely room for another young ILB who can contribute right away on STs, just like Sylvester did last season.

Harvey is stronger and faster in a straight line than Stevenson. But, his instincts are no where near as good as Stevenson's were coming out of college. And, Stevenson plays much faster and can be effective in coverage.

I hear what you are saying Hawaiin. But, instincts and change of direction are paramount for linebacking. And, this guy lacks both in NFL quality. If he can improve his instincts and fill the hole better, he can become a 2 down run stuffer. But, he is so stiff in coverage, I don't know if he'll ever be more than a part timer.

RuthlessBurgher
04-16-2011, 01:07 PM
Mario Harvey reminds me of Earl Holmes.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-19-2011, 02:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs

Thanks for posting the link. It confirmed what I saw when watching the NFLPA (formerly Texas v the Nation) Game. Harvey is fast in a straight line and loves to hit. However, he is very stiff (especially in coverage) and has questionable instincts. Further, he loses to TEs and FBs in the hole too often. I prefer Tressor Baptiste. Baptiste is a little lighter (235-240) and won't be quite as fast in a straight line, but he has superior instincts and has the flexibility to wiggle through holes and hit folks in the backfield before they get going. He also has the change of direction agility to be effective in coverage. Both Baptiste and Harvey played in the NFLPA game together. Against similar competition with the same rules, Baptiste was a force and Harvey was pedestrian at best. Harvey's greatest assets are his straight-line speed and bulk. The problem is that both are negated by his slow reactions and inability to change directions. Baptiste plays faster and more fluidly than Harvey.

Really? I would use your description of Harvey for Baptiste. Baptiste is very slow and stiff. Struggles with change of direction. Makes up for some of his lack of athleticism with instincts but his lack of athleticism shows up when he takes false steps. His 4.91 40, 18 reps, 4.56 20s, & 7.25 3 cone would have put him among the bottom of the combine. If you watch the highlights, the 40 and his cone & shuttle show up at the Texas vs Nation. I actually think Baptiste goes undrafted.


Harvey is not without his flaws. But we are talking about a 5th or later round pick. Harvey takes some bad angles but that part is coachable. He won't be able to rely on his athleticism when he takes false steps at the next level. Might even move outside with his height because he has shown some pass rush skills. Reminds me alot of James Harrison on ST. Of course, if he had a neck he would be 6'2". His meaurables beyond his 4.46 40 are still very respectable against combine times. 27 reps, 4.19 20s, & a 7.13 3 cone stack up well. I don't see your "very stiff in coverage" but I won't say that is something he excels in. I agree his instincts could be questioned which I refered to with his false steps. Lack of height can be a big part of that and he may have to move outside if coaching and growth can't improve them. I think his resume and his athletic ability warrants the selection.

Anyone interested in seeing the two in action, game highlights are below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uExlrdGhf2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7O5femvoEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfj1i9q_ ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfj1i9q_Bo8&feature=related)

steelblood
04-20-2011, 07:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs

Thanks for posting the link. It confirmed what I saw when watching the NFLPA (formerly Texas v the Nation) Game. Harvey is fast in a straight line and loves to hit. However, he is very stiff (especially in coverage) and has questionable instincts. Further, he loses to TEs and FBs in the hole too often. I prefer Tressor Baptiste. Baptiste is a little lighter (235-240) and won't be quite as fast in a straight line, but he has superior instincts and has the flexibility to wiggle through holes and hit folks in the backfield before they get going. He also has the change of direction agility to be effective in coverage. Both Baptiste and Harvey played in the NFLPA game together. Against similar competition with the same rules, Baptiste was a force and Harvey was pedestrian at best. Harvey's greatest assets are his straight-line speed and bulk. The problem is that both are negated by his slow reactions and inability to change directions. Baptiste plays faster and more fluidly than Harvey.

Really? I would use your description of Harvey for Baptiste. Baptiste is very slow and stiff. Struggles with change of direction. Makes up for some of his lack of athleticism with instincts but his lack of athleticism shows up when he takes false steps. His 4.91 40, 18 reps, 4.56 20s, & 7.25 3 cone would have put him among the bottom of the combine. If you watch the highlights, the 40 and his cone & shuttle show up at the Texas vs Nation. I actually think Baptiste goes undrafted.


Harvey is not without his flaws. But we are talking about a 5th or later round pick. Harvey takes some bad angles but that part is coachable. He won't be able to rely on his athleticism when he takes false steps at the next level. Might even move outside with his height because he has shown some pass rush skills. Reminds me alot of James Harrison on ST. Of course, if he had a neck he would be 6'2". His meaurables beyond his 4.46 40 are still very respectable against combine times. 27 reps, 4.19 20s, & a 7.13 3 cone stack up well. I don't see your "very stiff in coverage" but I won't say that is something he excels in. I agree his instincts could be questioned which I refered to with his false steps. Lack of height can be a big part of that and he may have to move outside if coaching and growth can't improve them. I think his resume and his athletic ability warrants the selection.

Anyone interested in seeing the two in action, game highlights are below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uExlrdGhf2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7O5femvoEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfj1i9q_ ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfj1i9q_Bo8&feature=related)

I watched the whole game. I focused on Harvey because I had him on a list of draftable talent. Baptiste kept showing up. Baptiste was in the backfield while Harvey was not. Harvey took forever to get into the holes. In OSU highlights above, Harvey's struggles are very evident. In the NFLPA, Baptiste covered TEs and chased down fleet footed backs in the backfield and Harvey seemingly could not.

However, I did not have Baptiste's pro day info when I wrote this. Those are VERY disappointing numbers. I wonder if he did those on a grass field. At any rate, I must redo my mock. Based on those, I wouldn't want to draft him either.

Still, Harvey doesn't play up to that speed and he is stiff and has trouble changing directions. He also looked very average against the run vs. OSU. I don't mind taking him late as a project, but only if he is there later in the draft. Harvey could run a 4.2 forty and it wouldn't matter. At this point in his career, he doesn't play up to that speed.

I will admit that he does have a higher upside than Baptiste. But, for me, inside linebacker is about instincts and filling holes. I wasn't impressed with Harvey's instincts at the NFLPA game, but I was with Baptiste's.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-20-2011, 08:59 AM
I watched the whole game. I focused on Harvey because I had him on a list of draftable talent. Baptiste kept showing up. Baptiste was in the backfield while Harvey was not. Harvey took forever to get into the holes. In OSU highlights above, Harvey's struggles are very evident. In the NFLPA, Baptiste covered TEs and chased down fleet footed backs in the backfield and Harvey seemingly could not.

However, I did not have Baptiste's pro day info when I wrote this. Those are VERY disappointing numbers. I wonder if he did those on a grass field. At any rate, I must redo my mock. Based on those, I wouldn't want to draft him either.

Still, Harvey doesn't play up to that speed and he is stiff and has trouble changing directions. He also looked very average against the run vs. OSU. I don't mind taking him late as a project, but only if he is there later in the draft. Harvey could run a 4.2 forty and it wouldn't matter. At this point in his career, he doesn't play up to that speed.

I will admit that he does have a higher upside than Baptiste. But, for me, inside linebacker is about instincts and filling holes. I wasn't impressed with Harvey's instincts at the NFLPA game, but I was with Baptiste's.

I watched the whole game too. I thought Baptiste looked out of place. That was when my interest in Harvey began actually. Concerned about his lack of height at the next level.

Baptiste looks as slow as those times indicate to me. Harvey is a missile on ST and you could see that on the clips. He was one of the first down on punt coverage from the interior. The plays I saw Baptiste in the backfield he was clean. He should be there. Saw the same from Harvey. What I did see is Baptiste's inability to get to the edge if any blocker got a hand on him. I believe his lack of athleticism will negate his instincts at the NFL level. Harvey has range but his height might transition better to the outside.

Harvey got caught up in wash at the OSU game many times and struggles getting off blocks. I would be curious to see his arm length. One think he did show in that game is range and very good in space making a tackle. That was Pryor running around out there and he showed the ability to breakdown and get him. Again, look at him on ST against OSU. I believe that is catching the eye of the Steelers and he could take Foxy's place and learn the LB spot. His worst play was on the long run by Saine (I think it was Saine) where he read the pull & followed a blocker to the outside and got walled of. But I don't see the bad change or direction and inability to cover guys like you do. There are plenty of Marshall highlights against some good competition. His athleticism isn't the question. Height, instincts, ability to get off blocks are the questions. Like I said, height/instincts may go hand in hand so moving him outside could be a solution.

He may be limited in man against a tall tight end but his speed may be able to compensate that in a vertical route. He's no Timmons in coverage but he is no Foote. He reminds me alot of Harrison in zone coverage. I do see the abililty to close and range from the middle. If you watch him in the OSU game below, there is no doubt talent there against that competition in different aspects of his game. His struggles are evident too. But we are talking about a 5th or later pick and that's right where he should be because of these. My final analysis is Baptiste would be a "slug" at the NFL level and an UDFA but Harvey has enough athleticism and skill to get drafted. Time will tell.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AA ... 8AD089C40C (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs&playnext=1&list=PL692F0F8AD089C40C)

steelblood
04-20-2011, 10:15 AM
I watched the whole game. I focused on Harvey because I had him on a list of draftable talent. Baptiste kept showing up. Baptiste was in the backfield while Harvey was not. Harvey took forever to get into the holes. In OSU highlights above, Harvey's struggles are very evident. In the NFLPA, Baptiste covered TEs and chased down fleet footed backs in the backfield and Harvey seemingly could not.

However, I did not have Baptiste's pro day info when I wrote this. Those are VERY disappointing numbers. I wonder if he did those on a grass field. At any rate, I must redo my mock. Based on those, I wouldn't want to draft him either.

Still, Harvey doesn't play up to that speed and he is stiff and has trouble changing directions. He also looked very average against the run vs. OSU. I don't mind taking him late as a project, but only if he is there later in the draft. Harvey could run a 4.2 forty and it wouldn't matter. At this point in his career, he doesn't play up to that speed.

I will admit that he does have a higher upside than Baptiste. But, for me, inside linebacker is about instincts and filling holes. I wasn't impressed with Harvey's instincts at the NFLPA game, but I was with Baptiste's.

I watched the whole game too. I thought Baptiste looked out of place. That was when my interest in Harvey began actually. Concerned about his lack of height at the next level.

Baptiste looks as slow as those times indicate to me. Harvey is a missile on ST and you could see that on the clips. He was one of the first down on punt coverage from the interior. The plays I saw Baptiste in the backfield he was clean. He should be there. Saw the same from Harvey. What I did see is Baptiste's inability to get to the edge if any blocker got a hand on him. I believe his lack of athleticism will negate his instincts at the NFL level. Harvey has range but his height might transition better to the outside.

Harvey got caught up in wash at the OSU game many times and struggles getting off blocks. I would be curious to see his arm length. One think he did show in that game is range and very good in space making a tackle. That was Pryor running around out there and he showed the ability to breakdown and get him. Again, look at him on ST against OSU. I believe that is catching the eye of the Steelers and he could take Foxy's place and learn the LB spot. His worst play was on the long run by Saine (I think it was Saine) where he read the pull & followed a blocker to the outside and got walled of. But I don't see the bad change or direction and inability to cover guys like you do. There are plenty of Marshall highlights against some good competition. His athleticism isn't the question. Height, instincts, ability to get off blocks are the questions. Like I said, height/instincts may go hand in hand so moving him outside could be a solution.

He may be limited in man against a tall tight end but his speed may be able to compensate that in a vertical route. He's no Timmons in coverage but he is no Foote. He reminds me alot of Harrison in zone coverage. I do see the abililty to close and range from the middle. If you watch him in the OSU game below, there is no doubt talent there against that competition in different aspects of his game. His struggles are evident too. But we are talking about a 5th or later pick and that's right where he should be because of these. My final analysis is Baptiste would be a "slug" at the NFL level and an UDFA but Harvey has enough athleticism and skill to get drafted. Time will tell.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AA ... 8AD089C40C (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5x9M0AAFPs&playnext=1&list=PL692F0F8AD089C40C)

Thanks for all of this. I do appreciate it. Certainly, the workout numbers indicate that Baptiste does not have the speed for the NFL. Still, from what I recall (and I even took some notes) Baptiste was able to knife through the line (sometimes clean, sometimes not) and make good plays or in the least be disruptive. I thought he showed a good short area quickness to set himself up to make plays and complete his assignments. But, I'm not the only one who thought he had a great game at the NFLPA. He definitely generated some buzz from several outlets. Several outlets saw him as one of the game's top performers. I thought he showed very good instincts against the run and pass.

I'll have to be more open-minded when it comes to Harvey, I suppose. I just can't shake the running plays (in the OSU game and the NFLPA game) when I thought Harvey had the read and could get to the hole, but simply hesitated or chose a very poor pursuit angle. I thought his instincts and choices looked off. But, considering his college production and workout numbers, maybe he is a project worth consideration. Perhaps Butler can fix what I turns me off.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
04-20-2011, 03:48 PM
Baptiste looks more responsive to his keys than Harvey. The only problem there is if he guesses wrong or takes that false step, he may not have the athleticism to recover at the next level. In that NFLPA game, when he picked his gap and went, he made the play in the backfield. He was unblocked, but Harvey was too on some plays and he met the RB at the line or kept some depth and ended up in the wash. Harvey can't keep some depth at the next level because an OL will sniff him out and take him out of the play. Remember though, Spikes measurables were poor and he looked good in coverage, the jury is still out on him. Baptiste's 20s & 3 cone were not horrible lineman'ish, maybe he had an injury or something. That forty hurts him though.

Baptiste won an award for his performance at the NFLPA game if I'm not mistaken. He made plays in the run game & ST and had a pass defense. You could just see he lacks another gear when they went to the corner especially when he had to come from backside. But I guess the best thing you can see is he is a football player and has the heart & motor to play. Wouldn't be the first time a guy like that makes a name for himself in the NFL. I wouldn't write him off...Just that he has a mountain in front of him. Harvey's mountain isn't much easier.