PDA

View Full Version : Chadmans ACTUAL Final Mock Draft..



Chadman
04-11-2011, 10:58 PM
Some kind of promise not be as craptastic as the rubbish Chadman dealt out earlier. Now, there's no guarentee this will be the draft that YOU want, but given the history, given the needs, given the strength of the draft- this is how Chadman could see things played out.

The Steelers hardly ever 'reach' for a player- particularly early. They use the strengths of the draft to dictate how they resupply the squad. That isn't to say they ignore need- but they seem to know that they can't fill every need, every year. So it's more a case of priority dependant on supply- if you like.

This upcoming season, we have, by & large, decided that there are 'needs' at CB, DL & OL primarily, with supplimental needs at WR, RB, TE & LB. For some reason- one which Chadman disagrees with, but is willing to be proven wrong, there seems to be little belief that there is a need at Safety.

This draft seems to have top-end strength at the DL positions as well as the OT position. It is a deep draft at CB- in saying that, there is little 'top end' talent at CB, but depth seems to flow through into Rounds 4 or even 5. Unlike CB, both the 3-4 DE prospects, NT prospects & OT prospects seem to drop (less dramatically Chadman feels at OT, but drop all the same) after the 1st & early 2nd round talents are off the board. In other words- if you miss out on an early 3-4 DE/NT or OT- chances are, you are 'reaching' by the end of Round 2 or Round 3. The LB prospects seem to be spread quite well throughout the draft, giving some high potential picks quite late into the draft. Same can be said for Interior OL players. RB is weak at the top end...in fact, it's pretty weak throughout. WR seems solid- with players going in each round that can develop nicely into contributors in time. Safety is thin at the top, but seems very 'middle heavy'. The TE's will be thin in Rounds 1 & early 2, but should start coming off the board pretty comfortably from that point on.

Chadman will still stick with his 'theory' in regards to Tomlin/Colbert draft strategy- big school, big production tops the list. Athletic players are valued highly. Juniors are viewed highly. Character is important. Get those things covered, and you got yourself a prospect for the early rounds.

Let's see if Chadman can redeem himself from that previous debacle..

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:06 PM
ROUND 1.

CAMERON HEYWARD DE OHIO STATE
6'5" 294lbs
4.95 40-Yard
34 1/4" Arms
10" Hands

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/4301739_f260.jpg

There seems to be so few 'flies' on Heyward, that he becomes a very real possibility at #31. Big, strong, good background, good character, team leader, good production, fits a team need, good school, good competition.

If he were a Junior- it'd be a lock.

With Heyward & Hood as the 3-4 DE's of the future, the Steelers DL is 2/3 complete to being dominant for years to come.


Heyward is big versatile defensive end that can play in a 4-3 or a 3-4 at the next level. He is a powerful athlete at the point of attack that can eat up blocks in the running game and uses heavy active hands to shed quickly. He possesses a less than ideal burst, but is a relentless pass rusher that gets more sacks than he should. His greatest asset is his versatility, as he can control blockers to be effective in a two-gap scheme, but also could have an impact as a traditional defensive end in a 4-3. Heyward will likely not last past the first round.


Analysis
Pass rush: Though not a true outside pass-rush threat, he will pressure the quarterback no matter where he lines up. Lines up on either end, as well as at the five-technique and uses quickness off the snap and excellent length to split double-teams, get inside of linemen when man-up, or push back guards into the pocket. Agile enough to be effective on twists from the outside. Running backs and tight ends are no match against Heyward in pass protection. Tough one-on-one matchup for guards inside due to his lateral quickness, hustle and club move. Corrals and punishes quarterbacks in the backfield, closing quickly and exploding into the tackle. Inconsistent disengaging from blocks; better left tackles can stand him up and latch on with impunity. Can be pushed back with an initial punch but keeps coming to provide a strong secondary rush. Not a great threat to turn the corner from the edge. Forces tackle up the field and can spin inside to prevent scrambles or pressure quarterbacks stepping up into the pocket. Has the length to affect passing lanes when unable to reach the passer but could get his hands up more often.

Run defense: Strong against the run whether lining up against guards or tackles. Crashes down to close gaps. Can spin off of blocks when runners cut back against the grain. Crashes down on inside runs, using length to get into a play. Good punch to knock his man back, attacks the ball when it is in his area. Maintains edge discipline to prevent bootleg plays on his side of the field. His height can be used against him -- he fails to get low on occasion and loses leverage against stronger guards and double teams. Susceptible to cut blocks, though he is athletic enough to recover and get back into the play. Too strong for tight ends to handle one-on-one and uses leverage and hands to blow through edge blocks. Only adequate backfield awareness, will be sucked in on misdirection and lacks great change-of-direction agility.

Explosion: Excellent quickness off the snap, splits double teams with ease and provides a rare pop into his blocker's pads to knock him back. Will be first man off the ball when pinning his ears back on the rush. Very difficult for slower linemen to match his combination of strength and explosiveness, makes beating them look easy.

Strength: Flashes great upper-body and hand strength, dominating most college linemen with leverage and burst, but does not consistently overwhelm better players. Does not have exceptional muscle definition in his arms. Plays tall inside and lacks a great anchor to maintain his ground against NFL-caliber double-team blocking.

Tackling: Solid tackler; can be explosive and always gives good effort. Leans when closing on the ball to ensure contact and his long arms allow him to wrap consistently. Good hustle downfield on screens. Also follows plays down the line and can chase to the opposite sideline. Best when attacking plays in front of him. Though he can redirect well for his height and size, he doesn't change direction easily and lacks the immediate burst to play on the edge in the NFL.

Intangibles: He has a great attitude, work ethic and immense talent. Well-liked by his teammates and coaches, he has fun playing the game. Hustles without wearing down much during the game. Returned for his senior season because he enjoyed college and wanted to win a national championship. Father, the late Craig "Ironhead" Heyward, was a star running back in college and the NFL. Stepfather is Cory Blackwell, a star basketball player for the Wisconsin Badgers in the 1980s who played one season for the NBA's Seattle Sonics.

Compares to: Marcus Spears, Cowboys -- Long, strong and experienced in both fronts, don't expect Heyward to post big sack totals, but he'll hold up well at the point of attack, especially as a five-technique defensive end in the 3-4 alignment.

--Chad Reuter

Other 1st Round Possibilities-
Aaron Williams CB
Corey Luiget DE (If he drops- might surplant Heyward at #31)
Martez Wilson ILB
Nate Solder OT

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:16 PM
ROUND 2.

LANCE KENDRICKS TE WISCONSIN
6'3" 243lbs
4.50 40-Yard
32" Arms
9 5/8" Hands

http://tommeltonscouting.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/lance-kendricks-pic.jpg

Kendricks has reportedly impressed the Steelers coaches, in particular Bruce "No Fullbacks" Arians. There seems to be a real interest in adding another TE to the squad- possibly in preparation for Hines ward's retirement. Another sure-handed reciever to fill that role needs to be included. Kendricks would likely surplant Speath as the #2 TE & would, essentially, become a starter in the Steelers 2 TE Offense.

Again, good school, good production, athletic, team leader...but..not a Junior. Guess you can't fit every criteria. There are other TE options in other rounds, but few tick all the boxes as well as Kendricks. At the Combine, Kendricks performed nearly all the tests at a "Top 5" level for the TE's- no other TE proved to be as rounded, athletically.


Kendricks is an interesting prospect because the H-Back/Tight End hybrid has become a valuable commodity in today's NFL. He was very productive as a senior and he possesses the speed and athleticism to be a weapon down the seam at the next level. He will have to work on his ball skills and field awareness, but he appears to have a good work ethic. His size prevents him from being an in-line blocker, but he should be able to contribute as a situational receiving tight end in the spread. Overall, Kendricks looks to be a middle round pick.


Release: Gets off the line in a hurry, providing a legitimate deep threat down the seam. Adept at block-and-release (though strong linebackers can get him off his route), gets out into space on bootlegs. Sidesteps defensive ends and uses stop-go move to free himself of nickel backs and linebackers at the line. Will hop at the snap before moving at times when lined up in the slot. One-gear runner, though, without the breakaway speed to separate from NFL nickel backs and safeties off the line.

Hands: Has the hands of a former wide receiver, snatches passes away from his frame and tracks balls over either shoulder. Extends to bring down high passes and is quite adept going down and getting his hands underneath low throws over the middle. Has dropped a few passes during his career, needs to improve his concentration when hearing footsteps and make the grab before running upfield to be considered an elite prospect. Wins jump balls with nice vertical and length.

Route running: His quickness and size gives offensive coordinators the flexibility to run him down the seam, over the middle, in the flat and down the sideline. Difficult for linebackers to stay with him over the middle and almost always has a height mismatch against defensive backs. Finds the soft spot in front of linebackers on crossing routes. Quick feet and fluid hips for cuts, though some out routes are rounded off. Aware of the sideline, grabs out routes then stops to proceed upfield.

After the catch: One of the few tight ends in recent memory that has the speed and elusiveness to earn carries on reverses. Good straight-line speed (though not elite), body control and balance for the position. Catches-and-runs like a large receiver. Change directions in mid-stride and is able to cut inside oncoming defenders to avoid their tackles. Hangs onto the ball in traffic. Runs tougher than expected, carrying tacklers a few yards when possible, though he lacks great lower body strength and better defenders get low to win the leverage battle against NFL defenders.

Blocking: Gives good effort as a run blocker from the H-back or moving tight end spots, has better upper-body build than expected given his frame. Understands blocking angles to create rushing lanes. Walls off backside ends when in motion, can set his feet and anchor. Blocks inside from motion near the goal line, willing to make contact and keep legs churning to move his man back. Lacks the strength to block NFL ends in-line, however, and is shed by smaller, stronger defenders in the open field after initial contact because they knock away his hands. Crosses his feet at times when fighting off edge rushers from three-point stance, will struggle to recover at the next level.

Intangibles: Has taken over as leader among skill position players as a senior. Coaches lauded him for his preparation before their 2009 bowl game. Left fibula broken while blocking on run play in November 2008, returned for bowl game.

Other Round 2 Possibilities-
Brandon Burton CB
Marcus Gilbert OT
Orlando Franklin OG
Sam Acho OLB

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:26 PM
ROUND 3.

CURTIS MARSH CB UTAH STATE
6'1" 197lbs
4.46 40-Yard
32" Arms
9" Hands

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/629441/curtismarsh_display_image.jpg

Curtis Marsh is just about the prototype Steeler CB- big, quick, good tackler. There is a pretty obvious need at the CB position in Pittsburgh, so drafting a CB is a no-brainer choice. It's just a metter of where. Here in Round 3 there will be several options- mostly big athletic types like Marsh which suit the Steelers. Chances are- Marsh will only see the field in Dime & ST plays in Year 1. Maybe Nickle- depending on the development of the young CB's & the retention of Willie Gay. Marsh, when pitted against quality WR's like Pettis & Young at Boise St, performed very well. Very raw with only 1 year's starting experience. Carnell Lake might just enjoy working with an athlete like Marsh.


Marsh is a high cut corner that struggles in transition, but he has very long arms and could contribute in a press heavy scheme. He lacks the hip fluidity to play in off man coverage, but he is a good presser and is fast enough to turn and run with receivers. He uses his long arms to break up passes even when he is giving a step, and also has the body control and hands to pick off passes. Marsh is a limited prospect due to his tight hips, but he is fast and long and could be a mid-to-late round pick.


Marsh is tall with a great frame. Uses long arms to effectively press and reroute receivers at the line. Shows a closing burst when the ball is in the air. Excels in jump ball situations and has reliable hands to make interceptions. Willing tackler in run support that always wraps.
Lacks the hip fluidity to stick in man coverage and will not be able to contribute over the slot in sub packages. A moment slow recognizing routes and can be fooled by play action. Takes poor angles in run support and struggles to break down ball carriers in the open field.


Utah State cornerback Curtis Marsh didn't participate in the Aggies' Pro Day in Logan, Utah, on Thursday, but 13 NFL scouts attended the workout. The second-team All-WAC cornerback last season surprisingly earned an invite to the Senior Bowl but was unable to participate after injuring his hamstring on the first day in Mobile, but he attended the Scouting Combine in Indianapolis and held his own. Marsh is expected to schedule private workouts with multiple teams. Based on his Combine showing, he has a chance to shoot up the draft board prior to the draft. The 6-1, 197-pound Marsh has the long arms and sturdy frame of a running back - and he converted from that position prior to the 2009 season. Only a one-year starter, Marsh made a name for himself in the 2010 game against Boise State, tying up touted sleeper receiver Titus Young and Austin Pettis throughout the game. He has the vertical speed -- 4.42 at the combine -- and leaping ability (37 ?? inches), long arms and short-area burst to be a No. 1-type receiver in the NFL. But teams will have to be patient with the raw cornerback. His limited experience at the position, all at a low level of competition, won't make the jump to the NFL easy. - NFLDraftScout.com

Other Round 3 Possibilities-
Rashard Carmicheal CB
Chris Hairston OT
Kelvin Sheppard ILB
DJ Williams TE

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:35 PM
ROUND 4.

AUSTIN PETTIS WR BOISE STATE
6'3" 209lbs
4.56 40-Yard
31 3/4" Arms
9 3/4" Hands

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_z-mmzWvyi6A/TU3rB45tZrI/AAAAAAAAALA/a0ZufBPs4yc/s748/austin%2Bpettis.jpg

Could this be the Steelers "Big" WR? Pettis seems a very safe choice- big & strong, sure handed, good character, good performer. Probably not going to be a 'star', but then, Hines was never supposed to be a 'star' either. Could be a good compliment to Wallace, Sanders & Brown in time as the 'over the middle' target. Combined with the Kendricks selection, the Steelers could be well prepared for life with Hines.


Pettis looks like a solid backup wide receiver with the mentality to contribute on special teams. Is a very experienced player who was highly-productive in college, especially in the red zone. Has the natural ball skills and hands you look for in a receiver. While we worry about his ability to separate and get deep at the next level, he still makes so many plays in a crowd using his size and body control. Pettis frame, hands and production level in college will likely land him in the middle rounds of the 2011 draft.


Strengths: Tall, long frame with room to add bulk. Works over the middle very well while using his body to shield the ball from defenders. Has big, strong hands and can pluck passes in traffic. Shows a good feel for zone defenses and settles into open spots without drifting back into coverage. Possesses good body control and maintains balance in and out of cuts. Utilizes head fakes, sells defenders on the wrong route and has the strength to break tackles and gain extra yards after the catch. Focuses on passes and watches the ball all the way into his hands. Displays great concentration when fighting for jump balls and times his high-points well. Tracks the ball accurately while running and will sell out to make the catch. Is a willing blocker who can engage defenders with long arms. Excellent red-zone target.

Weaknesses: Sluggish off the line and takes too long to reach top speed. Allows too much recovery time for defensive backs when stopping and starting. Needs space to stride and accelerate, but still cannot run past defenders and possesses only average speed for the position. Lacks an adequate second gear to consistently get behind defenses and does not show ideal burst when coming in and out of cuts in his routes. Can be pressed and jammed at the line and allows defenders to control him early due to lack of physicality and quickness. Will tip his hand when running routes by drifting toward his destination. Gets sloppy with his footwork and lacks the route discipline to create separation in man coverage. Is not a shifty, quick-twitch athlete and struggles to make defenders miss in the open field. Overextends and loses leverage and balance as a blocker in the run game.

--Hunter Ansley

Other Round 4 Possibilties-
Jeremy Beal OLB
Greg Romeus OLB
Julius Thomas TE
Cortez Allen CB

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:45 PM
ROUND 5.

JARRIEL KING OT SOUTH CAROLINA
6'5" 310lbs
5.09 40-Yard
36 3/8" Arms
10 3/4" Hands

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/South+Carolina+v+Florida+3RUZfXKWiWRm.jpg

Ok, so by now the "We Want An OT" Gang have nearly topped themselves with rage at being overlooked. Remember though- the draft is top heavy at OT- if you miss the top rated guys, chances are you are over drafting in the next couple of rounds. King is the perfect physical specimen- long body, long arms, good weight. Played against good competition. However- there's a big elephant in his room- a heart condition. That said, the Steelers have had him in for a chat, and he tested "out of this world" well at the Combine. Given that Kugs is the Harry Potter of OL coaches, if you give him a raw, unrefined talent like King, here's betting he has a better than fair chance of getting him to his optimum performing level. This is a "Kugs" pick- provide him with the putty & let him mould something out of it.


King has a great frame and the athleticism to be a reserve left tackle at the next level. He excels in pass protection, as he can sink his hips to thwart the bull rush and also locks out his arms effectively to push edge rushers past the pocket. He is naturally strong, but his slow first step prevents him from getting a strong initial position and consistently generating a good push. He has missed time due to an irregular heart beat that may end his chances at an NFL career, but he has enough talent to be a later round pick.


Positives: Ideal body type to play offensive tackle at the next level -- long, solid frame, broad shoulders, long arms. Raw athlete with upside and significant room to develop as an offensive lineman after being converted from a junior college defensive end. When able to get off the line quickly and extend his arms, King shows "shutdown" type flashes in pass protection. Showed some versatility at South Carolina, starting two games at left guard in 2009. Possesses the athleticism to be an effective blocker in the run game with the ability to get downfield ahead of the run and engage defenders at the second level. Struggles to get leverage against opposing defensive linemen when run-blocking, often coming off the line too upright and getting pushed into the backfield. Similar problems when run blocking downfield, not getting low enough to properly use his legs and drive defenders backward.

Negatives: An alarming list of off-the-field struggles and run-ins with the law including a trespassing conviction, a theft charge, and an assault and battery charge stemming from an altercation with a former girlfriend. Inconsistent timing of first step off the line often leaves him beat to the edge by opposing defensive ends, resulting in poor footwork and inability to establish proper position. Has a tendency to over-anticipate and "reach" for the defender off the line rather than slide-stepping into a solid stance, extending his arms and allowing the defender to approach him. This overpursuit often results in bending at the waist with a subsequent loss of balance, forcing him to have to "chase" down defenders who beat him to the edge. Absorbs too much of defender's initial punch by bending his back rather than bending his knees; relies too heavily on arm and upper-body strength for proper extension. Lack of quickness off the line leads to inconsistent hand placement inside the shoulders of opposing pass rusher, making him vulnerable to strong initial punch and bull rush. Lacks consistent footwork and slide-step technique to handle change-of-direction, fake and spin moves by pass rushers at the next level.

Other Round 5 Possibilities-
Zach Hurd OG
Mario Harvey ILB
Noel Devine RB
Cortez Allen CB
Buster Skrine CB

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:50 PM
ROUND 6.

STEVEN FRIDAY OLB VIRGINIA TECH
6'3" 230lbs
4.66 40-Yard

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/multimedia/dynamic/00627/Virginia_Tech_Miami_627442e.jpg

Mentioned him in Chadman's 'failed' Final Mock- and will stick with him here. Big, fast, athletic. replaced Worilds at V-Tech, and did it well. With Harrison coming towards the end, and with Woodley not guarenteed to stick around, depth can't hurt here. An athletic, play-making OLB- isn't that what the Steelers are about?


Was named the most improved defensive player of the spring Emerged as a playmaker, while winning a starting job Got a lot of reps and was productive Made big plays every scrimmage - sacks, tackles for loss, forced fumbles Needs to carry that success into preseason practice Was solid and reliable last season, while serving as the top backup to Jason Worilds Is strong and athletic Can pressure the passer Consistency and focus will be the key in August Has a chance to play a major role for the Hokies.

birtikidis
04-11-2011, 11:53 PM
Sigh...

Chadman
04-11-2011, 11:55 PM
ROUND 7.

FRANK KEARSE DT/DE ALABAMA A&M
6'4" 311lbs
5.30 40-Yard

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/hash/b8/dd/b8dd48b4a6184efa09f362591e403a6d.jpg

Ok, let's stick with big Frank here too. He makes sense (about as much as Zach Clayton does), fits a need & is worth a shot. as Chadman mentioned in the failed mock- Kearse has the height to possibly be used a la Kimo as an option 3-4 DE at times too. Steelers have shown interest & need a future NT- why not?


Alabama A&M Pro day: It was difficult for Alabama A&M prospects at the school's pro day held on March 7, but a couple still managed to thrive. The five players who worked out had to do so on a wet grass field outdoors ??? not ideal for trying to impress the 15 teams present at the pro day. There were two standouts, neither of which was invited to the NFL Scouting Combine: DT Frank Kearse (6-foot-4, 315 pounds) ??? He ran 5.30 and 5.44 seconds in the 40-yard dash, had a 30-inch vertical jump, an 8-foot-7 broad jump, and did 22 bench-press repetitions at 225 pounds. He also posted 4.66 and 7.80 in the short shuttle and 3-cone drill, respectively. Scouts were impressed with him, and the Steelers' Mark Gorscak worked out Kearse individually. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com

Chadman
04-12-2011, 12:01 AM
You sighing at the Chadman Birt?

:D

StarSpangledSteeler
04-12-2011, 12:56 AM
i appreciate the thought and preparation you put into this mock, but i completely disagree with your first 4 picks. How can you not address either of our top two needs in the first two rounds? We're going into next year with three starting caliber DE's (for two spots) and you want to burn a 1st rounder on a DE who's three years out from starting? We lose the Super Bowl because we can't cover anybody and you don't want a CB until Marsh in the 3rd? Our offense is ranked 14th in the league (mainly because our OL gets dominated regularly against the pass AND the run) and your solution is King in the 5th? I'm sorry but I just have to disagree with how you are addressing our most glaring weaknesses.

Chadman
04-12-2011, 01:54 AM
i appreciate the thought and preparation you put into this mock, but i completely disagree with your first 4 picks. How can you not address either of our top two needs in the first two rounds? We're going into next year with three starting caliber DE's (for two spots) and you want to burn a 1st rounder on a DE who's three years out from starting? We lose the Super Bowl because we can't cover anybody and you don't want a CB until Marsh in the 3rd? Our offense is ranked 14th in the league (mainly because our OL gets dominated regularly against the pass AND the run) and your solution is King in the 5th? I'm sorry but I just have to disagree with how you are addressing our most glaring weaknesses.


Feel free to disagree as much as you like.

:D

That said- how often do the Steelers fill our boards percieved needs anywhere near as clearly as we all feel they should?

hawaiiansteel
04-12-2011, 03:10 AM
our two most glaring weaknesses are OL and CB, yet your draft addresses these deficiencies by only drafting a very raw CB who has only been playing the position for a couple of years and no OL until the 5th round. there would be a very good chance that neither Marsh or King would make any contributions to the Steelers in their first year, and we need help at those positions this season.

I strongly believe that there will be either an OL or a CB chosen by the Steelers in the first two rounds of this draft.

steelblood
04-12-2011, 07:06 AM
This is a realistic draft. Most of the players you've slotted have a good chance to be there when we pick. I'd like to see more attention to CB, but if we resign Ike and perhaps Gay, I like this draft. Heyward is going to be a great player at the next level. Nice job.

Oviedo
04-12-2011, 07:53 AM
Man of Chad,

A noble effort but mine is better :wink:

Chadman
04-12-2011, 09:13 AM
our two most glaring weaknesses are OL and CB, yet your draft addresses these deficiencies by only drafting a very raw CB who has only been playing the position for a couple of years and no OL until the 5th round. there would be a very good chance that neither Marsh or King would make any contributions to the Steelers in their first year, and we need help at those positions this season.

I strongly believe that there will be either an OL or a CB chosen by the Steelers in the first two rounds of this draft.

OL & CB are definately the 2 most glaring weaknesses, and yes- both Marsh & King are unlikely to contribute much in their first year. That said- Chadman can't see a CB rated a "Top 3 Rounds" type CB that will be available to the Steelers that will be more, in year 1, than a nickle back. As much as it might cause great gnashing of teeth on here- B-Mac is a pretty good chance of starting next season, unless Crezdon Butler or Keenan Lewis can force a change. More likely one of those 2 guys, or a FA will push B-Mac from a starting role than any rookie not called Patrick or Prince.

All the available CB's at #31 are reaches compared to Heyward. And unless you trade up, which Chadman didn't offer as an option because it's simply too hard to guess the logistics of it, your Curtis Brown's of the world won't last until the Steelers 2nd pick. Brandon Burton was one guy Chadman considered in Round 2- but the Steelers apparent desire to obtain a TE put Kendricks ahead of him on Chadman's list. Also, there is good depth to the CB class this season- the drop-off from Burton to Marsh is not as great as the drop-off from Kendricks to, say Luke Stocker. Curtis Marsh was selected ahead of Rashard Carmicheal based on physical characteristics, but Carmicheal is one guy Chadman thinks could contribute- at least as a nickle- in year 1. But Marsh has the higher upside, so he won out.

As Chadman said at the beginning of this mock- if you miss out on one of the top rated OL or 3-4 DL players, you are reaching to fill those roles until later in the draft- the drop-off from the 5th rated OT to the 6th/7th is pretty significant- same with the 5th/6th DE to the 7th/8th. Again, Chadman was faced with the choice between Kendricks and a 'need' player- perhaps Marcus Gilbert or Orlando Franklin. Both could very well be the actual choice there- (remember, Chadman isn't a member of the Steelers FO)- but Kendricks won out. Essentially- what Chadman is saying is- in this mock, the Steelers didn't draft need, they took players that fit the system. Kendricks upgrades the #2 TE spot- a starting role in Bruce Arians offense. He also would contribute over the next couple of years to fill the void left by Hines Ward as the short yardage type recieving option over the middle that neither Wallace, Sanders or Brown fill. Also- where does a rookie OL play next season? Unless it's Pouncey, who starts over Starks & Adams? Kemo? Only that RG spot is really up for grabs- and if Colon is kept along with Adams- so much for that too. Also, Kugs is the type of coach that can take the skilled but unfinished King & turn him into an NFL lineman. Go look at the combine results & see how King fared- he's physically superior than nearly the whole class. Yes- Chadman knows Combine numbers count for nothing, but it does give an indication to his physical abilities. Also, if you look at what holds King back- that heart condition has dropped him a round or 2. If that checks out (Chadman guesses it will), don't you get a 'bargain' in King in Round 5? A guy that, really, could have been a Round 3 type player?

In the end, it's all just speculation. But Chadman didn't just randomly pick out names. King has visited the Steelers. There's some interest there. Have Solder or Sherrod visited?

Chadman
04-12-2011, 09:18 AM
Man of Chad,

A noble effort but mine is better :wink:

Well, hard to argue that logic...guess you win!!

:Beer

Chadman
04-12-2011, 09:22 AM
This is a realistic draft. Most of the players you've slotted have a good chance to be there when we pick. I'd like to see more attention to CB, but if we resign Ike and perhaps Gay, I like this draft. Heyward is going to be a great player at the next level. Nice job.

Thanks mate.

Completely agree about Heyward- solidifies the DL for the foreseeable future along with Hood. (DL is the KEY component to the Steelers 3-4 success...just without the frills of the LB corp..)

Chadman suspects either Lewis or Butler will be pushed to challenge B-Mac, or a FA might be brought in. There are few CB's in this draft that might contribute early in this draft- or should Chadman say- few that will be available at their nominated selection positions. Rashard Carmicheal might be the exception as a nickle type though.

Oviedo
04-12-2011, 09:41 AM
Man of Chad,

A noble effort but mine is better :wink:

Well, hard to argue that logic...guess you win!!

:Beer

Logic??? What is that? This is just rabid fanaticism :D

Chadman
04-12-2011, 09:55 AM
Man of Chad,

A noble effort but mine is better :wink:

Well, hard to argue that logic...guess you win!!

:Beer

Logic??? What is that? This is just rabid fanaticism :D

So easily confused.... :D

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 01:16 PM
our 3-4 DL was one of the best in the league with a

mid 1st rounder - casey
4th rd project - A smith
7th round project/late pick - keisel/kimo

how much top end talent do you need in a system where they "take up blockers to free the LBs"

i'll be surprised they go with DL that early this year

pfelix73
04-12-2011, 06:07 PM
I like your first 2 picks. Don't know much about the others as of yet. I know we need to address the CB slot as well, however, I think we have enough OL to compete at camp. Especially interior linemen. If we need another OL it would be at OT.

Overall, I like it Chadmaster...

:tt1

Chadman
04-12-2011, 06:27 PM
our 3-4 DL was one of the best in the league with a

mid 1st rounder - casey
4th rd project - A smith
7th round project/late pick - keisel/kimo

how much top end talent do you need in a system where they "take up blockers to free the LBs"

i'll be surprised they go with DL that early this year

The problem now though, with the DL, is age & the effects it's having on the defense. When only 1 player on the DL rotation is under 30- and most are 33+, you're going to start seeing a decline in skills & health. When Hampton, Smith & Keisel were 28, 29- they were dominant in all aspects of their play. They are not now. There were many times last season where the front 3 can't generate the same kind of pass rush that the team needs to help/disguise the short comings of the DB's. Realistically, the Steelers have left the emerging issue of the aging DL too long. They should have added 1-2 younger guys in the last 2 drafts- but have only really added Hood. The key position in the 3-4 is NT- the difficult transition from Steed to Hampton proves this. Once Hampton came in, everything changed for the defense- run stopping vastly improved, pressure was improved etc. But in Steed's last years & Kimo's brief stint at NT, we were run over, passed on..reasonably easily. And the Steelers defense was good then. But they got exploited. Hampton is 33. He can't play until 40- he's going to need a replacement soon. Smith can't finish a season. Keisel isn't exactly Bruce Smith- even in Keisel's prime. What happens at 33, 34? The Sunny Harris' of the world have proven that the Steelers can't just pick up any old guy and fit them in on the DL. The emergence of the 3-4 around the NFL has made finding suitable 3-4 DL players harder- driving up their value. Look at the Ravens- we'll be facing Ngata & Cody for the foreseeable future & now they show interest in Wilkerson for this draft. The last thing you want to see is the Steelers invest heavily in the DB's only to watch teams run all over a mediocre DL.

If the opportunity is there to grab an elite DE or an overrated CB- take the DE & grab a CB later. Sometimes, no matter how great the 'need'- you have to take what's value.

Chadman
04-12-2011, 06:30 PM
I like your first 2 picks. Don't know much about the others as of yet. I know we need to address the CB slot as well, however, I think we have enough OL to compete at camp. Especially interior linemen. If we need another OL it would be at OT.

Overall, I like it Chadmaster...

:tt1

Agree completely about the OL- it's actually one of the youngest groups in the team & they showed steady improvement last season. Now you add Colon, Starks & Chris Scott to the mix & Chadman thinks there's enough bodies there to allow Kugs to play with. Adding an athletic OT later in the draft to compete/replace Tony Hills as the "future OT" makes sense however.

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 06:37 PM
i didnt say dont draft one, a 3rd rounder can get into the rotation and be groomed to be a starter.

just like smith, keisel,steed etc. were, and become very good players

the skill set for the position in our system allows them to develop later round guys. heck even ziggy (a 1st round talent) took a year to start getting more snaps. they basically have to learn a whole new technique from what they played in college to take up blockers so the LBs can fly to the ball


the secondary has been a weakness for a while. count the number of top round players we have in that area, and its the reason why we see it struggle vs. passing teams.

Chadman
04-12-2011, 06:46 PM
i didnt say dont draft one, a 3rd rounder can get into the rotation and be groomed to be a starter.

just like smith, keisel,steed etc. were, and become very good players

the skill set for the position in our system allows them to develop later round guys. heck even ziggy (a 1st round talent) took a year to start getting more snaps. they basically have to learn a whole new technique from what they played in college to take up blockers so the LBs can fly to the ball


the secondary has been a weakness for a while. count the number of top round players we have in that area, and its the reason why we see it struggle

Not necessarily disagreeing with you- there is a need to improve the DB's, absolutely. Just looking at the strengths & depths of this draft- the drop-off from the top-tier DL to the mid-range DL & the top-tier CB to the mid-round CB is not proportional. After the top 6-7 3-4 DL players, the talent dries up pretty quickly. The CB's are different- only 2 real 'stars', but after that the CB's have 'similar' skill levels through to Round 3 or even 4. Ask yourself this- how big is the drop-off from Heyward to say, Cedric Thornton compared to Aaron Williams to Curtis Marsh?

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 06:53 PM
if you can assure me that a 4th round corner is going to be as good as 1st/early 2nd round corner, i'll be for it.

unfortunately, i'm not convinced


you want to go 4-3 defense. i'll be all for a DE at 31

Chadman
04-12-2011, 07:01 PM
if you can assure me that a 4th round corner is going to be as good as 1st/early 2nd round corner, i'll be for it.

unfortunately, i'm not convinced


you want to go 4-3 defense. i'll be all for a DE at 31

If the Steelers take a 1st round CB, and a 3rd round DE- and they both turn out to be good- Chadman will be happy too.

It's all just opinion anyway...pretty sure Tomlin won't be taking Chadman's tips on draft day..

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 07:08 PM
and vice versa

if they take a DE at 31 and cb at 62 and they turn out to be players, i wont be complaining
:Cheers


i guess i'm one of the few that viewk DL as not as big a need as others do

Shawn
04-12-2011, 07:11 PM
The Chadman is getting some heat but to be perfectly honest with you, this draft wouldn't shock me at all. How many years have we thought need and the Steelers thought BPA?

If Heyward is there at 31, he will likely be the BPA. I don't trust Williams ability to be great at the next level. While I would rather trade down so we can grab Hudson and Dowling in the second...this mock is solid. Kendricks could be a very special TE at the next level.

Personally, I think the Steelers will grab 2 DBs in this draft but who knows in which rounds. I don't believe it will be in the first. I don't think the Steelers will have Williams at the top of their board. Heyward is a logical choice.

Chadman
04-12-2011, 07:12 PM
You have Lawrence Guy there in your 3rd round- interesting player. He's got good length in his body, but pretty sure he has short arms- weird combination.

That said, the NT from Utah Siliga has elephant trunk arms on a 6'1" body.

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 07:33 PM
The Chadman is getting some heat but to be perfectly honest with you, this draft wouldn't shock me at all. How many years have we thought need and the Steelers thought BPA?
.

aside from mendy and ziggy (which also can be argued as 'need' picks) who was BPA instead of a need pick in recent history


snack - need
simmons -??
troy-need
ben-need
heath -BPA/need
holmes- need
LT-need
Pounce-need

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 07:37 PM
You have Lawrence Guy there in your 3rd round- interesting player. He's got good length in his body, but pretty sure he has short arms- weird combination.

That said, the NT from Utah Siliga has elephant trunk arms on a 6'1" body.


i'm actually going to change it soon (after seeing that kendricks high light video) and also might have a few other guys in there that are in your mock...so i dont hate your mock at all. But, i think im going to emphasize the secondary a bit more

i agree with your assessment of the OL. it wouldnt surprise me if we avoid the OL for the whole draft

Chadman
04-12-2011, 07:42 PM
NJ- you can't really compare Cowher/Colbert drafts to Tomlin/Colbert drafts as they seem to focus on different needs/theories etc.

Tomlin/Colbert selections have been-

Timmons
Mendenhall
Hood
Pouncey

Only Pouncey was a 'need'. Timmons was given a long time to develop. Mendy was supposed to be a bit-part to Parker & Hood, like Timmons, has had time to develop. Heck- even Pouncey wasn't supposed to be rushed in at Center. They were all elite athletes for their respective positions however....

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 07:51 PM
i disagree

with porter gone and an unknown Debo starting with an average haggans on the other side in his last contract year. LB was a need. DL's defense is built on linebackers.
woodley and debo playing great moved timmons to the inside. so much a need that they took him 10 spots higher then he was slated to go

Mendy? a lot of people on these boards had been asking for a RB to split carries with willie. many mocks featured RB's in the 2nd/3rd round for a few years. mendy slipped to us, so we took the best one available

Chadman
04-12-2011, 07:52 PM
The Chadman is getting some heat but to be perfectly honest with you, this draft wouldn't shock me at all. How many years have we thought need and the Steelers thought BPA?

If Heyward is there at 31, he will likely be the BPA. I don't trust Williams ability to be great at the next level. While I would rather trade down so we can grab Hudson and Dowling in the second...this mock is solid. Kendricks could be a very special TE at the next level.

Personally, I think the Steelers will grab 2 DBs in this draft but who knows in which rounds. I don't believe it will be in the first. I don't think the Steelers will have Williams at the top of their board. Heyward is a logical choice.

Thanks Shawn.

The Steelers seem to avoid 'danger' picks & instead go for the high upside types. Aaron Williams will be on the radar- make no mistake about that. It's just a matter of where they place him in regards to the rest of the CB's that will be available- will the Steelers see better value in a later round CB like Burton, Marsh, Carmicheal? Honestly- there is probably something like a 10-step plan hanging in the Steelers draft room on how to pick players & when a player ticks enough boxes, for each round, they become a potential target...

1. Upside
2. Proven competition
3. Character
4. Athletic Ability
5. Injury History
6. School/Coaching/Grounding
7. Splash Play Ability
8. etc...

Chadman
04-12-2011, 07:55 PM
i disagree

with porter gone and an unknown Debo starting with an average haggans on the other side in his last contract year. LB was a need. DL's defense is built on linebackers.
woodley and debo playing great moved timmons to the inside. so much a need that they took him 10 spots higher then he was slated to go

Mendy? a lot of people on these boards had been asking for a RB to split carries with willie. many mocks featured RB's in the 2nd/3rd round for a few years. mendy slipped to us, so we took the best one available

well, if Timmons, Mendenhall & Pouncey were 'needs' because they were going to be required to step in for incumbant starters in a year or two- then Heyward is a 'need'...

:D :stirpot

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 08:02 PM
timmons was to replace average (haggans) or unproven (debo)

pouncey was replacing garbage (hartwig / RG at the time)


mendy (if you listened to most on this board) was replacing average

:stirpot
:Cheers

Chadman
04-12-2011, 08:53 PM
if you listened to most on this board

What the hell would they know??

:D

Shawn
04-12-2011, 09:27 PM
The Chadman is getting some heat but to be perfectly honest with you, this draft wouldn't shock me at all. How many years have we thought need and the Steelers thought BPA?
.

aside from mendy and ziggy (which also can be argued as 'need' picks) who was BPA instead of a need pick in recent history


snack - need
simmons -??
troy-need
ben-need
heath -BPA/need
holmes- need
LT-need
Pounce-need

Depends on how you define need. We "need" another TE, a kicker, DL OL, ILB, CBs and a safety. Were each of those players selected because they filled the greatest need on the team? Or were they the BPA at a position that had a need?

Heyward would add youth to a very very old DL. Barring him being selected earlier, and barring some freak falling to us...he will be the BPA on our board. If we stay put he makes the most amount of sense.

NJ-STEELER
04-12-2011, 10:03 PM
i define "need" as an area we have an average (or less) player.

i'm not even that big on keisel but he's better then average.

smith, hood,keisel, eason is a good rotation, great if smith stays healthy. would heyward even suit up for game days if smith stays healthy?


so i wouldnt use a #1 pick on a DE

Chadman
04-12-2011, 11:53 PM
Adding Heyward could mean removing Eason- that's an upgrade. And if Smith doesn't stay healthy? Then Heyward's your #1 back-up.

And if Heyward is your best pass rushing DL- he plays nickle & dime formations.

NJ-STEELER
04-13-2011, 12:06 AM
we should draft a QB at 31 then.
what if ben doesnt stay healthy?


i know what you guys are getting at, but i'm not using a premium pick at a position i consider to be a strength of a team.

i'd rank it 3rd behind OLB and QB

Chadman
04-13-2011, 12:21 AM
i know what you guys are getting at, but i'm not using a premium pick at a position i consider to be a strength of a team.

But for how long will it be a strength? A year? Do we then draft DL players like they are going out of style in order to keep the DL strong?

Smith is 35 & hasn't finished a season in 2 years. In fact, he's missed more games than he's played. Keisel is 33- and he's the young guy of the group. Hampton is 34, Hoke 36...Eason 31..

We all saw Hines Ward slowing down last season. His lowest reception total in how many years? And how old is Hines? 33?

What if...we see Hampton, Smith & Keisel decline? Who picks up the slack like Sanders & Wallace did? Hoke? Eason? Only Hood is on the upside of his career.

What Chadman fears, more than anything, is watching the strength of the Defense fall apart rapidly & then watching the coaches scrambling desperately to plug the holes with rookies & FA's. In Chadman's opinion- if drafted, Heyward is an instant contributor & maybe only 1 year from being a starter.

If you think the CB's are bad- at least that is the Defense's only weakness. Imagine if we can't stop the pass & then can't stop the run too? Can the Offense score 50?

NJ-STEELER
04-13-2011, 02:49 AM
i'd rather let them run at 5 yards a clip them let them pass for 30+ a clip. thats what happens when they insist on having corners that can play the run well. you see 3rd receivers like jordy nelson get 3 yards behind our starters.

but that wont happen with the run defense anyway. casey was throwing around what many consider to be the best center in the game in the AFCC. i doubt his level of play drops much then where it is right now.

again, i'm not avoiding the position. currently have a DE going in the 3rd round in my mock. thats a higher talent level then where our starting DEs from last year were drafted and they turned out pretty well. no?

Shawn
04-13-2011, 04:02 PM
i define "need" as an area we have an average (or less) player.

i'm not even that big on keisel but he's better then average.

smith, hood,keisel, eason is a good rotation, great if smith stays healthy. would heyward even suit up for game days if smith stays healthy?


so i wouldnt use a #1 pick on a DE

Keisel is 32 yo. Rotating Heyward in will certainly extend his career and allow Heyward to be groomed by not only Keisel but Smith.

Oviedo
04-13-2011, 04:32 PM
i define "need" as an area we have an average (or less) player.

i'm not even that big on keisel but he's better then average.

smith, hood,keisel, eason is a good rotation, great if smith stays healthy. would heyward even suit up for game days if smith stays healthy?


so i wouldnt use a #1 pick on a DE

Keisel is 32 yo. Rotating Heyward in will certainly extend his career and allow Heyward to be groomed by not only Keisel but Smith.

But NJ brings up a good question. Who doesn't dres on gameday? Only way I would see Heyward in a active gameday rotation would be if Eason is gone and he has been solid, knows the defense and is younger than all the other DEs except for Hood. That said why would it be any different having a rookie on defense who doesn't play. That is the norm under LeBeau :stirpot

Steel Life
04-13-2011, 06:03 PM
In any other year Heyward would project much higher & being hampered by the arm injury has probably tempered the enthusiasm for him. Heyward is a 1st-round quality player that we should be happy to get & let him learn from the stalwarts we have there now. As for Eason...guys like him run the risk every year of being pushed out by draftees & FA's, I'm not pinning for him if we can get a major talent to replace him. Its guys like McLendon & possibly Harris that are on their last legs with the team.