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SMASHMOUTHFOOTBALL
04-03-2011, 09:15 AM
First off the only off lineman I want in the first round is Pouncey. All you fools out there wanting someone else is crazy. Look at all our first round picks that were off linemen and failed us. Plus we can get the same value in rnds 2-7.

Anyways...Can someone explain what is going on with our off line for next year?

RT---Colon was signed for at least next year and he has a injury that could be career devestating.

Does Flozell have another year left in him? If not we have Colon who may or may not play. Scot aint gonna cut it!
LT---Why did we sign Starks long term? This guy is way over paid! I did read where he starting working our again and should be good for next year so we have our Left Tackle--I guess.

C--Pouncey---SET IN STONE

G--Kemo ---Set

G--Foster---Can get the job done.

So looking at this and the reasoning why some of you want a tackle is that Colon must not be able to be back up to top form and Flozell is to old for another year??? Help me please because I really want us to fill the CB and S void and get Hamptons relplacement before we have to pick a 6-4 350 pd oFF lineman that will get blown up by T Suggs only to have Ben put the shacks on him and throw a TD to Hines. Dont get me wrong Im ok with getting a T or G rounds 3-7, even 2nd rnd if a guy falls. Thoughts?

Oviedo
04-03-2011, 09:43 AM
First, let me start by offering my opinion that Starks is far better than you give him credit for. He is a better than average, steady LT. He will never make the Pro Bowl or be classified as elite, but you don't get those types of LT unless you are drafting in the Top 10 of the draft. I prefer not to do that. As long as we are successful we have to expect to have a Starks-like LT not a Jor Thomas-like LT.

I agree with about 50% of what you say. First, we are "SET" with Pouncey for at least the next 5 years. I agree that the Colon situation is a huge wildcard on what are options are this upcoming season. I think his injury was fortunate for the Steelers because it gives them great leverage to negotiate a one year deal with him so that he can prove himself to the rest of the NFL as healthy, even if that is at Guard not Tackle. It also gave us the opportunity to bring in Adams and see what good RT play is all about. IMO he played better than Colon ever did and hopefully he still has one more year in him.

I totally disagree with you about our Guards. I think both are average at best. Kemo has the physical ability to be dominant but he has to be dumb as a box of rocks which is why he struglles in passing situations which requires you think and react quickly. IMO Foster is nothing more than the next Darnell Stapleton. A back up player who played above himself for a short period of time. Neither should be considered the answer long term.

I hope we can get one each Guard and Tackle in Rounds 2-7 this year. I'd love for us to be able to get Marcus Cannon in Round 2 (will require a trade out of Round 1 or trade up in Round 2) and a developmental OT like Jah Reid (UCF) or Lee Ziemba (Auburn) in Round 4. I think the one thing we do have going for us is that for the first time in a long time we have a very good OL Coach in Kugler who can take middle round picks and develop them.

One player on the OL who I am really interested in is Chris Scott. He must have shown Kugler something because they did something out of the ordinary by putting him on PUP versus IR and releasing Urbik. There has to be a reason why they wanted him to be able to practice with the team in 2010 versus just be on the IR where they didn't have to make a roster mover and drop someone. If that was just a hunch they were playing I'm interested to see how it plays out.

Shawn
04-03-2011, 10:43 AM
Calling posters "fools" is probably not the best way to start a post. :lol: Personally, I would take Sherrod, Carmini or Pouncey, so I suppose that would place me in the fool crowd. Flozell might not even be back next season, if he is he is old and injury prone. We have no idea how Starks or Colon will recovery from their injuries. OT will certainly be on the Steelers radar. I would agree however that OG is more of a need and that Pouncey would be a wonderful fill of that need on multiple levels. But, there is reasonable argument that Sherrod is the best pure LT in this draft. If he falls within reach I could see the Steelers moving up to grab him.

RuthlessBurgher
04-03-2011, 12:02 PM
I think Pouncey is a safer pick than any of the OT prospects available this year (none of them are at the elite Joe Thomas/Jake Long/Ryan Clady level this year), but if by chance Tyron Smith, Anthony Castonzo, Nate Solder, Gabe Carimi, or Derek Sherrod was available for us, that would likely be the best available player at that time, so it would be a no-brainer pick. That said, I wouldn't reach for the likes of Ben Ijalana, Danny Watkins, Rodney Hudson, or Marcus Cannon at #31 when there is likely better value in the secondary or d-line at that point (although those fellas would certainly be considerations if they happened to fall within reach of our 2nd round pick).

birtikidis
04-03-2011, 12:05 PM
I agree with Ovi, Starks is a lot better then you give him credit for.

Kemo- IMO is terrible in space. would be better on the right side where he wouldn't it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Pouncey- dudes a stud

Foster- Out of position. IMO our future RT. As a guard... I'm not sold.

Colon/Flo - Colon is the wild card. if he comes back, awesome. I'd let him sit this year regardless, just to give him one more year to be fully healed. When Flo retires let him and Foster battle it out.

I agree that we need depth at both the S and CB spot, just don't see any value at 1/31 for either position. If Pouncey is gone, or we don't trade up, I wouldn't mind Williams, but woulnd't take Harris...

pittpete
04-03-2011, 12:23 PM
For what its worth, Legursky should be a starting Guard on this team.
Forget about the he needs to be the "backup center/swingman garbage".
Put the best 5 guys on the field at all times.
-Starks One hit or twist the wrong way and its a season-long injury/trip to IR.
Spinal surgery is no guarantee. When healthy, he gets the job done.
-Kemo Above average run blocker, liability in pass protecton. Personnally im tired of the moronic penalties, but he knows the system so guess hes a starter for another year.
-Pouncey-Young enough to heal from last seasons injury
-Foster-Was serviceable last year,slow as a slug and should be a backup to Legursky
-Adams-Got the job done, and I believe he should stay to either backup Colon/Starks.(You know one of them is going to reinjure themselves.

StarSpangledSteeler
04-03-2011, 12:49 PM
Let me answer your question as it pertains to the draft. I like to look at it this way...

There are two types of OL: (1) legit starters and (2) career back ups. We currently have a ton of solid career "back up" type OL on our roster (Essex, Legursky, J.Scott, Hills, Foster, etc.) (and most of them are fairly young). We do not need to draft more late round OL depth. We need legit starting talent (especially at OG).

That is why a lot of posters are calling for a trade up for Pouncey 2. We see the huge difference in our OL from drafting one pro bowler (last year) and adding his clone (this year) would establish a ten year core to both protect our franchise QB and open running lanes. Beyond him there is some good interior OL talent but not elite. There are a couple of good round 2-3 OG that would probably be upgrades over Kemo and Foster/Legursky but there are a lot of busts in that range (ex - Urbik).

The tackle position is a bit trickier. Starks is an average LT who has reached his ceiling. Barring serious injury he is not going anywhere for the next 4 years. Adams and Colon could both be gone in 2012 for ANY NUMBER OF REASONS (injury, retirement, contract, performance). We need a long term starting caliber RT and this draft has a number of solid RT prospects in rounds 2-4. Some of them may even be able to play LT and kick Starks over to the right side but that is unlikely in year one. In the past we have drafted huge mammoth OL who were primarily run blockers. With the emergence of Big Ben, we have looked to add quicker more athletic players who can pass block, but we've really only landed one.

Look for the Steelers brass to add one OL in either rounds 1 or 2.

RuthlessBurgher
04-03-2011, 02:43 PM
I agree with Ovi, Starks is a lot better then you give him credit for.

Kemo- IMO is terrible in space. would be better on the right side where he wouldn't it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Pouncey- dudes a stud

Foster- Out of position. IMO our future RT. As a guard... I'm not sold.

Colon/Flo - Colon is the wild card. if he comes back, awesome. I'd let him sit this year regardless, just to give him one more year to be fully healed. When Flo retires let him and Foster battle it out.

I agree that we need depth at both the S and CB spot, just don't see any value at 1/31 for either position. If Pouncey is gone, or we don't trade up, I wouldn't mind Williams, but woulnd't take Harris...
:lol: @ Colon/Flo. Sound like the two of them should endorse a new ultra high fiber laxative treatment for severe constipation

birtikidis
04-03-2011, 04:22 PM
I agree with Ovi, Starks is a lot better then you give him credit for.

Kemo- IMO is terrible in space. would be better on the right side where he wouldn't it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Pouncey- dudes a stud

Foster- Out of position. IMO our future RT. As a guard... I'm not sold.

Colon/Flo - Colon is the wild card. if he comes back, awesome. I'd let him sit this year regardless, just to give him one more year to be fully healed. When Flo retires let him and Foster battle it out.

I agree that we need depth at both the S and CB spot, just don't see any value at 1/31 for either position. If Pouncey is gone, or we don't trade up, I wouldn't mind Williams, but woulnd't take Harris...
:lol: @ Colon/Flo. Sound like the two of them should endorse a new ultra high fiber laxative treatment for severe constipation
I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that. I was trying to be serious, but I've been joking about this around the house for a few weeks... lol

Eddie Spaghetti
04-03-2011, 05:22 PM
the love legursky gets on this board is comical.

he would get abused as an every week player.

hawaiiansteel
04-04-2011, 02:27 AM
PITTSBURGH STEELERS: OFFENSIVE LINE NEEDS

by: Jason Harding. Updated March 31, 2011


Entering the month of April the NFL Draft is on everyone’s mind. Unfortunately this year the lockout has put a small damper on the yearly event.

But let the league do what they do and let's talk prospects. Over the next few articles I will breakdown each position for Pittsburgh’s needs.

There is no secret what the Pittsburgh Steelers need, so lets start with the offensive line.

The depth chart:
LT: Jonathan Scott, Tony Hills
LG: Chris Kemoeatu
OC: Maurkice Pouncey, Doug Legursky
RG: Ramon Foster, Trai Essex
RT: Flozell Adams, Chris Scott

This was the depth chart at the end of last season. The offensive line most certainly needs some stability after the parade of starting lineups last season.

We have to think about the free agency situation with right tackle Willie Colon. Drafting a lineman would almost certainly push Colon away from Pittsburgh.

An ideal situation would involve Colon returning to Pittsburgh and sliding in to right guard and drafting a left tackle.

ESPN’s big board for offensive tackles:
1. Tyron Smith - OT - USC
2. Anthony Castonzo - OT - Boston College
3. Nate Solder - OT - Colorado
4. Gabe Carimi - OT - Wisconsin
5. Derek Sherrod - OT - Miss St

ESPN’s big board for interior lineman:
1. Mike Pouncey - C - Florida
2. Danny Watkins - G - Baylor
3. Orlando Franklin - G - Miami
4. Rodney Hudson - C - Florida St
5. Marcus Cannon - G - TCU

The top four tackles are projected to be off the board by No. 31, when the Steelers are slated to pick, so lets look a little deeper in the class. Mississippi State’s Derek Sherrod, who is a viable option, is expected to be a better run blocker than pass protector. Playing next to Kemoeatu could make the left side of the line Pittsburgh's power run side.

Another tackle is Villanova’s Ben Ijalana. Ijalana played in every game during his college career at Villanova. Ijalana is just about the complete opposite of Sherrod. He is a better pass protector than a run blocker. His durability is probably the only reason to consider him if Sherrod is still available.

If Pittsburgh decides to look inside in the first round there are many more options. In a few mock drafts experts have the Steelers selecting Danny Watkins from Baylor. He is an average-sized guard that plays with a mean streak.

The only concern with Watkins is that he will be a 27-year-old rookie. However, he was a firefighter prior to college and has only played four years of football.

In a few mock drafts, guys like Rodney Hudson were available until mid-second round. Pittsburgh would have to be willing to make some moves to pick him up, but it could be a feasible option.

Drafting Maurkice Pouncey as an interior lineman turned out to be a great decision last year. If Pittsburgh could land another diamond like Pouncey this year it would solidfy their line for at least one season. Unfortunately, it looks as though the Pouncey twins will not be teammates, at least not this season.

With uncertainty drawing from Colon and Adams probably only having one year left in them, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Steelers add a few linemen in the draft.

http://sportshaze.com/pittsburgh/pittsb ... needs-2586 (http://sportshaze.com/pittsburgh/pittsburgh-steelers/pittsburgh-steelers-offensive-lineman-draft-needs-2586)

birtikidis
04-04-2011, 01:07 PM
i'm so tired of hearing Colon to guard. get over it. it won't happen.

birtikidis
04-04-2011, 01:09 PM
And putting a guy who isn't a good pass blocker next to kemo, like Sherrod, would destroy our quarterback.. could you imagine two guys next to each other who can't pass block? seriously? Plus he talks like Max is dead.

ramblinjim
04-04-2011, 01:15 PM
the love legursky gets on this board is comical.

he would get abused as an every week player.


See, I thought he played pretty well in the Super Bowl. Maybe I missed something.

Oviedo
04-04-2011, 01:51 PM
the love legursky gets on this board is comical.

he would get abused as an every week player.

:Agree I think he is a good back up but that is about it.

Some posters love anybody who makes it as an UDFA. Maybe it is love of all underdogs, but in 95% of the cases the reason they weren't drafted is because they lacked the talent and that shows over the long term most of the time. There are always exceptions but for the most part that holds true.

hawaiiansteel
04-04-2011, 02:28 PM
the love legursky gets on this board is comical.

he would get abused as an every week player.


See, I thought he played pretty well in the Super Bowl. Maybe I missed something.


and he was going against All-Pro NT B.J. Raji, at that...

Legursky will be given every opportunity to win a starting job in camp, unfortunately I also believe he's better suited as a backup swingman.

flippy
04-04-2011, 03:54 PM
I liked what I've seen from Legursky especially when it counted against the Jets and the Pack. He's powerful, quick, and smart. I don't see what's not to like about Legursky.

At this point he's one of the best 5 linemen and had Pouncey started out at RG, we might be looking at keeping Pouncey at RG with Legursky at C right now and the only long range question marks would be at RT/LG.

Instead we have question marks across the line except for C and LT - I'm convinced based on the end of last year Jon Scott is a capable starter if Max can't go.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-04-2011, 04:18 PM
keeping pouncey at RG??? when has he ever played there? please enlighten me.

bj raji lines up over the guard spot most of the time in the packers D.

legursky is a back up, nothing more. how many camps has he had the oppurtunity to win a starting spot and failed to do so?

ikestops85
04-04-2011, 04:26 PM
keeping pouncey at RG??? when has he ever played there? please enlighten me.

bj raji lines up over the guard spot most of the time in the packers D.

legursky is a back up, nothing more. how many camps has he had the oppurtunity to win a starting spot and failed to do so?

That's what some said about James Harrison also. :wink:

Eddie Spaghetti
04-04-2011, 04:29 PM
no they didn't.

harrisons problem was learning the playbook and not taking coaching early in his career.

two entirely different sets of circumstances. terrible analogy.

ikestops85
04-04-2011, 04:38 PM
no they didn't.

harrisons problem was learning the playbook and not taking coaching early in his career.

two entirely different sets of circumstances. terrible analogy.

so he had many camps but was unable to win a spot, not just in the starting lineup, on the roster. The analogy seems to hold.

Eddie Spaghetti
04-04-2011, 04:44 PM
his own coaches were afraid of james harrison.

he wouldn't take coaching. when he did he blossomed.

legusky has a tenth of harisons raw ability.

steelblood
04-04-2011, 05:28 PM
What we don't have...

Jonathan Scott--Dude is a UFA. He no longer qualifies as an RFA. I'm not sure why everyone is penciling him in. He likely earned himself some money last season and he is likely gone.

What we might have...

Colon-depends on CBA and his recovery.
Flozell-depends on his desire to play and his body holding up.

What we probably have...

Starks-as Ovi said, this guy is solid. Dogging Starks and propping up Kemo shows me that you aren't watching the o-line very carefully. Starks executes at a higher level than Kemo at a vastly more difficult position.

What we have...

Pouncey-excellent.
Legursky-Like his effort and short area strength for his size. He is a good swingman and could develop into a starter. I'm not sure I love him at RG.
Foster-serviceable RG. He had a few very good games in the playoffs opening lanes for Mendy.
Kemo-probably overpaid for what he is. Has not developed over the last couple of years. I like his passion and hate his decision-making.

?marks
Hills-flashed in a few spots last season, but generally has been unimpressive.
Chris Scott-here is our developmental RT/RG prospect. We don't need to draft one in the later rounds.

Where does that leave us?

With some draft flexibility! As long as Starks is healthy, we'll be fine. We will retain or sign at least one veteran RT (Colon, Flozell, other). That gives us a lot of flexibility when it comes to the draft. We can draft a future LT (like Sherrod if he's there) or a RT like Carimi. We can take a RG in the first or second round that can start from day one.

Personally, I like Carpenter from Alabama. He is now 320 pounds. He is athletic enough to play tackle and stout enough to play some guard. I think he could start at 3 or 4 positions. He is good (not great) in space and is able to get some push. I like his character and he knows how to finish games. (2nd or 3rd round)

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
04-04-2011, 08:53 PM
What we don't have...

Jonathan Scott--Dude is a UFA. He no longer qualifies as an RFA. I'm not sure why everyone is penciling him in. He likely earned himself some money last season and he is likely gone.

What we might have...

Colon-depends on CBA and his recovery.
Flozell-depends on his desire to play and his body holding up.

What we probably have...

Starks-as Ovi said, this guy is solid. Dogging Starks and propping up Kemo shows me that you aren't watching the o-line very carefully. Starks executes at a higher level than Kemo at a vastly more difficult position.

What we have...

Pouncey-excellent.
Legursky-Like his effort and short area strength for his size. He is a good swingman and could develop into a starter. I'm not sure I love him at RG.
Foster-serviceable RG. He had a few very good games in the playoffs opening lanes for Mendy.
Kemo-probably overpaid for what he is. Has not developed over the last couple of years. I like his passion and hate his decision-making.

?marks
Hills-flashed in a few spots last season, but generally has been unimpressive.
Chris Scott-here is our developmental RT/RG prospect. We don't need to draft one in the later rounds.

Where does that leave us?

With some draft flexibility! As long as Starks is healthy, we'll be fine. We will retain or sign at least one veteran RT (Colon, Flozell, other). That gives us a lot of flexibility when it comes to the draft. We can draft a future LT (like Sherrod if he's there) or a RT like Carimi. We can take a RG in the first or second round that can start from day one.

Personally, I like Carpenter from Alabama. He is now 320 pounds. He is athletic enough to play tackle and stout enough to play some guard. I think he could start at 3 or 4 positions. He is good (not great) in space and is able to get some push. I like his character and he knows how to finish games. (2nd or 3rd round)

Very nicely broken down SB. The one thing that I could see happening here is that Flozell does not return - he is due $5M if he returns, and Colon is not brought back - it will be tough to commit a lot of money to a guy coming off of the injury that he had. Instead they sign J. Scott to play RT. He is on a team that has finally had success, he is with a line coach who brought him over, he would be making a move back to a position that he is familiar with, and he would likely come cheaper than the $5M that it would cost to keep Flo.

SMASHMOUTHFOOTBALL
04-04-2011, 09:49 PM
What we don't have...

Jonathan Scott--Dude is a UFA. He no longer qualifies as an RFA. I'm not sure why everyone is penciling him in. He likely earned himself some money last season and he is likely gone.

What we might have...

Colon-depends on CBA and his recovery.
Flozell-depends on his desire to play and his body holding up.

What we probably have...

Starks-as Ovi said, this guy is solid. Dogging Starks and propping up Kemo shows me that you aren't watching the o-line very carefully. Starks executes at a higher level than Kemo at a vastly more difficult position.

What we have...

Pouncey-excellent.
Legursky-Like his effort and short area strength for his size. He is a good swingman and could develop into a starter. I'm not sure I love him at RG.
Foster-serviceable RG. He had a few very good games in the playoffs opening lanes for Mendy.
Kemo-probably overpaid for what he is. Has not developed over the last couple of years. I like his passion and hate his decision-making.

?marks
Hills-flashed in a few spots last season, but generally has been unimpressive.
Chris Scott-here is our developmental RT/RG prospect. We don't need to draft one in the later rounds.

Where does that leave us?

With some draft flexibility! As long as Starks is healthy, we'll be fine. We will retain or sign at least one veteran RT (Colon, Flozell, other). That gives us a lot of flexibility when it comes to the draft. We can draft a future LT (like Sherrod if he's there) or a RT like Carimi. We can take a RG in the first or second round that can start from day one.

Personally, I like Carpenter from Alabama. He is now 320 pounds. He is athletic enough to play tackle and stout enough to play some guard. I think he could start at 3 or 4 positions. He is good (not great) in space and is able to get some push. I like his character and he knows how to finish games. (2nd or 3rd round)


Max Starks probably makes double what Kemo makes....And yes I do watch the O-L very closely that is why I said that Starks is overhyped. Making the money he makes he should at least make a pro bowl or two.
I tivo every game and each game I see Starks getting not even a finger on a guy who ends up sacking Ben at least once every other game.
He is an average Tackle making pro bowl money---THAT IS MY POINT!

I exactly didn't rave about Kemo either...but for what we pay him he does a decent job.

D Rock
04-04-2011, 10:14 PM
Unfortunately this team is not in a situation to be making roster decisions about the offensive line based on money, so what Starks and Kemo make compared to what they bring to the table is irrelevant.

steelblood
04-05-2011, 01:55 PM
Max Starks probably makes double what Kemo makes....And yes I do watch the O-L very closely that is why I said that Starks is overhyped. Making the money he makes he should at least make a pro bowl or two.
I tivo every game and each game I see Starks getting not even a finger on a guy who ends up sacking Ben at least once every other game.
He is an average Tackle making pro bowl money---THAT IS MY POINT!

I exactly didn't rave about Kemo either...but for what we pay him he does a decent job.

Pro Bowl money? I don't think so. What do you think a pro bowl LT would make on the open market in 2011? I would say 11 million per season sounds about right. Max makes about 60% of that.

Jake Long 11-12 million per season (rookie contract + incentives)
Jason Peters 11 million per season (FA contract)
Jordan Gross 10 million per season (FA contract)
Marcus McNeill 9.6 million per season (FA contract)
Joe Thomas 8.6 million per season (rookie contract expires after 2011)
Joe Staley 7-7.5 million per season (FA contract)
Michael Roos 7.2 million per season (FA contract)
Bryant McKinnie 7.2 million per season (FA contract)
Leonard Davis 7.1 million per season (FA contract)
Max Starks 6.6 million per season (FA contract)
Andrew Whitworth 6.4 million per season (FA contract)

The Bengals got a sweet discount from Whitworth. Otherwise, for the most part, the only decent tackles that are cheaper than max are guys who are still on their rookie contracts or restricted free agents.