More Hines double talk

[Crash]

In February, we thought Steelers receiver Hines Ward was in that same camp. “All money is not good money,” Ward said at one of the various Super Bowl media sessions. “You may get paid more, but all you’re doing is driving more injuries. Leave it like it is. It’s great as it is. . . . Add two more games, those extra checks are not worth it, having more stuff done to you that will affect you later on in life. I don’t want it.”

Now, Ward is singing a very different tune. “We’d jeopardize our bodies for two more regular-season games so if they can do something special with health insurance I think the players will go for it,” Ward said told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, as MDS pointed out earlier today.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... me-season/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/10/union-sending-mixed-signals-on-18-game-season/)

[Steelerphile]

It's the offseason and the players haven't played for more than a few months and have gotten a chance to let their bodies heal. The memories of the pain involved is probably sliding into the backs of their minds and they are now more susceptible to being bum-rushed into the 18-game season.

I still think it would be a bad idea and they should stay strong on this point.

[Crash]

Let the record show that this double-talk is also why I believe his "goodwill" towards Ben is nothing more than PR.

[feltdizz]

A guy can't change his stance on 18 games with a lockout pending? Sheez...

Hines is a bad bad man. :roll:

[Crash]

A guy can't change his stance on 18 games with a lockout pending? Sheez...

Hines is a bad bad man. :roll:

What changed in a month? The NFLPA has told its players for two years that a lockout is coming.

Next excuse please.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Why is this news now? Reports leaked just yesterday that an 18 game season was off the table at this point.


NFLPA leader: 18-game schedule off the table in CBA negotiations

By Jim Trotter, SI.com

WASHINGTON -- For the first time publicly, NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith said tonight that an 18-game season is off the negotiating table in collective bargaining talks with the owners.

Speaking before approximately 100 fans during a joint event with radio station 106.7-FM "The Fan" at the union's downtown office, Smith was categorical that the players won't expand the regular season from 16 to 18 games. He previously had been nuanced in his remarks, saying any change would be predicated on significant adjustments to teams' offseason training programs and the amount of padded contact the players endured during in-season practices.

However when contacted after a Q&A session with fans, Smith reiterated that 18 games is a no-go with the players.

"First of all, the league has never presented a formal proposal for 18 games," he told SI.com. "But more importantly, it's something that our players don't want. Eighteen games is not in the best interest of our players' safety, so we're not doing it."

The expanded season was thought to be one of the key talking points in the sides' negotiations for a new agreement; the current deal expires Friday night. The other sticking points are a rookie wage scale -- Yahoo! Sports reported today the sides have agreed on the parameters of a new rookie compensation system -- and a redistribution of league revenues. The league is seeking an additional $1 billion per year in expense credits that would be taken off the top before revenues are divided among the players and owners. The union has said there will be no significant financial givebacks unless the owners open their books.

Speaking outside the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service offices in downtown Washington today after negotiations ended for the evening, Smith said: "How much financial information would you want before you write a $5 billion check?"

Smith was referring to the total amount owners are seeking over a potential five-year agreement.

Both sides spoke much more openly about money matters Wednesday than they have since they entered mediation Feb. 18. With the collective bargaining agreement set to expire Friday, they clearly are far apart on how to divide more than $9 billion in annual revenues.

On his way into the 14th session at the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, NFL lead negotiator Jeff Pash said the issue of financial transparency -- a key sticking point -- "really should be behind us."

"We've made more information available in the course of this negotiation than has ever been made available in decades of collective bargaining with the NFLPA," Pash said. "Far more information. And we've offered to make even more information [available], including information that we do not disclose to our own clubs."

But Smith called the data the NFL offered to provide "utterly meaningless." It was rejected, the union said, because it didn't include material requested nearly two years ago by Smith in a letter to Commissioner Roger Goodell.

"Has it gotten everything it wants? Evidently not. Have we offered to provide more? Absolutely," Pash said Wednesday evening. "And is it a subject that we're prepared to discuss? Absolutely."

Under the old CBA, owners received an immediate $1 billion for operating expenses before splitting remaining revenues with players; at the outset of negotiations, the NFL sought an additional $1 billion off the top.

"Just to be absolutely clear, the information that was offered wasn't what we asked for," Smith said, "and, according to our investment bankers and advisers, they told us that information would be utterly meaningless in determining whether to write an $800 million check to the National Football League" in each year of a new CBA.

"We have requested access to fully audited financial statements since May 2009," Smith said. "We believe that is the appropriate information to analyze the league's request to write a multibillion check to the owners."

In a letter dated May 18, 2009 -- a copy of which was obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press -- Smith asked Goodell to "provide audited financial statements concerning the operations of the 32 clubs and the league."

Smith attached a list of 10 categories of information he sought, including:

• total operating income;

• total operating expenses, such as player costs, team expenses, sales and marketing expenses, game expenses, salaries/payments to owners;

• profit from operations;

• net income;

• cash and investment assets.

In the letter, Smith noted the owners' push to expand the regular season from 16 games to 18 as one reason "this information is critical in understanding the fair 'cost/compensation' model for players and teams."

In Minneapolis, meanwhile, the NFLPA asked the federal judge, who ruled in its favor in a case involving TV contracts, to release information that the NFL wants kept confidential. U.S. District Court judge David Doty sided with the players last week, saying the league illegally set up $4 billion in payments from networks -- money the union argued was collected to fund a lockout.

Wednesday's move seemed to be reminder to the league of two important points - the possibility of legal action if no new CBA is reached, and the union's insistence on transparency.

The NFLPA said in its filing that the NFL hasn't explained why material should be sealed and that the league hasn't cooperated with the union's attempt to propose limited redactions to protect third-party information only.

"The NFL cannot be permitted to comment publicly about these proceedings and then turn around to embrace a cloak of confidentiality that thwarts the public's right to know," union lawyers wrote.

The league said it would respond to the filing.

In Washington, Pash didn't reveal any specifics of the league's offer of financial information. But a person familiar with the negotiations told the AP that the NFL offered to turn over five years of league-wide profitability data to the union.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because mediator George Cohen told participants not to publicly discuss details.

According to the person who spoke to the AP, the NFL's proposal to the union included:

• audited league-wide profitability data with dollar figures from 2005-09 that w ouldn't show information on a club-by-club basis;

• the number of teams that have seen a shift in profitability in that span;

• an independent auditor to examine the data.

As far back as 2009, Smith told Goodell: "As you know, the NFLPA does not have access to a wide range of information that is directly relevant to the contention that the current CBA fails to address the owners' concerns."

"For example," the letter said, "the NFL and the teams do not provide the NFLPA with their audited financial statements detailing the profit [loss] information for the teams. We also lack the information to discern the profits [losses] per regular season games, the profit per team per playoff game and other fixed financial non-player costs."

The CBA dates to 2006, but owners exercised an opt-out clause in 2008. The deal was set to expire last week, before two extensions pushed the cutoff to the end of Friday.

Goodell was joined by three members of the owners' 10-person labor committee: Art Rooney II of the Pittsburgh Steelers, John Mara of the New York Giants, and Clark Hunt of the Kansas City Chiefs. More owners are expected to attend on Thursday.

If a deal isn't reached by Friday, the sides could agree to another extension. Or talks could break off, leading to, possibly, a lockout by owners or antitrust lawsuits by players.

"The commissioner said 'talking is better than litigating.' Talking is better than, you know, going to DEFCON 3 or whatever term I've heard thrown around," Pash said. "So let's keep at it."

Information from the Associated Press was used in this report

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/03/09/nfl.labor.18.game.schedule/index.html?eref=sihp

[The Sodfather]

Crash starting an anti-Ward thread. This is almost as shocking as finding out Troy was playing hurt during the playoffs.

[Steelers>NFL]

HW is the man! :Clap :tt2 :Bow

[Scalaid6]

Crash acts like Rebecca De Mornay (Hand that Rocks the Cradle) towards ANYONE that has said anything bad about Ben Roethlsberger.

Who do you think has done more good for the STEELERS Ben or Hines? Who has done more DAMAGE, Hines or Ben?

Who has more respect from their teammates Hines or Ben?

These answers are simple UNLESS you're currently cuddling with your Ben Roethlisberger action figure doll

[Chadman]

Geez- wish we had Plex & Antonio Bryant as the WR's....


:D

[feltdizz]

A guy can't change his stance on 18 games with a lockout pending? Sheez...

Hines is a bad bad man. :roll:

What changed in a month? The NFLPA has told its players for two years that a lockout is coming.

Next excuse please.

In a month the reality of a lockout sets in...

It's like taking the FO at it's word before the draft...

Some people call it bluffing or negotiating tactics. :wink:

[aggiebones]

Nice bending Crash, though we all know by now that you are a bender.

In first quote he is talking about his thoughts. In the second quote he is reference what the players collectively may do.

And who gives a rat's arse. I don't care if he says he wants 18 or doesn't want 18. His job is to play football, which he has done VERY well for us over his career.

It doesn't matter to me what he says or for that matter what you say.

Sadly, when talking about the game of football, you make some good points. But the rest of the crap you spew ruins the board frankly. I think you have driven some good posters away and that is the most annoying.

You are reminding me of pengslose from an old penguin board. I would not doubt that you were him.

[RuthlessBurgher]

You are reminding me of pengslose from an old penguin board. I would not doubt that you were him.

Haven't heard that name in while. I didn't really post on that board, but I read it every so often, and remember his diarrhea of the mouth (or in this case, keyboard, I suppose) well.

[Crash]

In first quote he is talking about his thoughts. In the second quote he is reference what the players collectively may do.

Which, if you know how Ward operates, he always hides behind "player speak" when he flips his opinion or calls someone out.

He should just be honest and admit that's what HE would do if the NFL bent a little on their position.

It's classic Ward, and guys like you continue to fall for it.

[Leper Friend]

In first quote he is talking about his thoughts. In the second quote he is reference what the players collectively may do.

Which, if you know how Ward operates, he always hides behind "player speak" when he flips his opinion or calls someone out.

He should just be honest and admit that's what HE would do if the NFL bent a little on their position.

It's classic Ward, and guys like you continue to fall for it.
:D :D :D That's great.
.
If you hate Hines so much , why don't you root for another team ? Or does that only apply to people who "hate" Ben ?

[Crash]

If you hate Hines so much , why don't you root for another team ?

I dislike Ward for his cancer-like behavior in his own locker room.

I never root for Ward to fail ON the field. I just wish Ward would appreciate who's he's playing for and what they've done for him rather than be the horse's a$s that he's been since 2002.

One good year, and all of the sudden Hines Ward changed.

And not for the better.

[Leper Friend]

If you hate Hines so much , why don't you root for another team ?

I dislike Ward for his cancer-like behavior in his own locker room.

I never root for Ward to fail ON the field. I just wish Ward would appreciate who's he's playing for and what they've done for him rather than be the horse's a$s that he's been since 2002.

One good year, and all of the sudden Hines Ward changed.

And not for the better.
According to you and Mark Madden only.

[Blockhead]

Appreciate who he plays for instead of being a horses but?

Ben should receive that advice. He has brought much more negative attention to the Steelers since 2004 than Hines Ward ever has.

Ben makes Hines Ward look like a model citizen.

[flippy]

I get the logic. Ben is a misogynist. That's ok cause there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of anything.

Hines isn't the best public speaker. He should be nailed to a cross.

That sounds like perfect Charlie Sheen logic.

Tiger Blood!!!!!

:P

[Crash]

According to you and Mark Madden only.

According to Ward's own words, not mine or Madden's.

[feltdizz]

I get the logic. Ben is a misogynist. That's ok cause there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of anything.

Hines isn't the best public speaker. He should be nailed to a cross.

That sounds like perfect Charlie Sheen logic.

Tiger Blood!!!!!

:P

Warlock!!!!

Crash treats Hines like the anti-christ and then demands the ultimate respect for Ben.

classic.

[Crash]

I get the logic. Ben is a misogynist. That's ok cause there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of anything.

Hines isn't the best public speaker. He should be nailed to a cross.

That sounds like perfect Charlie Sheen logic.

Tiger Blood!!!!!

:P

Speaking has nothing to do with it. Don't bash Ben for not playing with a concussion against the Ravens when Hines himself missed the majority of an AFC TITLE GAME AGAINST THE SAME TEAM less than a year earlier.

Unless Hines' brain was removed from his a$s and into his knee, he should have taped it up and went back in there. He needs to hold HIMSELF to the same set of standards he sets for others.

[feltdizz]

I get the logic. Ben is a misogynist. That's ok cause there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of anything.

Hines isn't the best public speaker. He should be nailed to a cross.

That sounds like perfect Charlie Sheen logic.

Tiger Blood!!!!!

:P

Speaking has nothing to do with it. Don't bash Ben for not playing with a concussion against the Ravens when Hines himself missed the majority of an AFC TITLE GAME AGAINST THE SAME TEAM less than a year earlier.

Unless Hines' brain was removed from his a$s and into his knee, he should have taped it up and went back in there. He needs to hold HIMSELF to the same set of standards he sets for others.

At least Hines started :stirpot

[flippy]

I think deep down, everyone has gut reactions like Hines. But we're just good at censoring ourselves and being PC. Hines seems to blurt out whatever is on his mind at any given moment.

I think the stuff he says stems from insecurity. The same insecurity that puts a huge chip on his shoulder when he plays. I'll take it cause the good far outweighs the negative. We all have our flaws. But we should consider ourselves blessed if we have half the positive traits Ward brings to the table.

[Crash]

At least Hines started

He should have started, he didn't injure that knee BEFORE the Ravens game, he injured it during it.

Simple common sense.

[feltdizz]

At least Hines started

He should have started, he didn't injure that knee BEFORE the Ravens game, he injured it during it.

Simple common sense.

Some call that there last post a joke....

Crash, you really need to relax.

[aggiebones]

I get the logic. Ben is a misogynist. That's ok cause there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of anything.

Hines isn't the best public speaker. He should be nailed to a cross.

That sounds like perfect Charlie Sheen logic.

Tiger Blood!!!!!

:P



wow, you nailed it flip.

Ward has been stuffing the box for the team leadership votes too. Since he's such a cancer to his team and all. He must be a pretty benign cancer to not have much adverse affect against his team since they have 3 recent Super bowl appearances.
Ah well, we love you anyway crash.
...actually we don't and many wish you would vanish. :)

[Crash]

Ward has been stuffing the box for the team leadership votes too.

First thing you said right all day. It was Ward who supposedly "campaigned" for James Harrison to win the MVP vote in 2007.

We all know why.

When Hines goes, most of the "Ben is a bad teammate" stories will go with him.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I didn't view anything Hines said as double talk.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Ward has been stuffing the box for the team leadership votes too.

First thing you said right all day. It was Ward who supposedly "campaigned" for James Harrison to win the MVP vote in 2007.

We all know why.

When Hines goes, most of the "Ben is a bad teammate" stories will go with him.

Ben stated himself that he was not always the best teammate. Ben changing his ways will be the biggest reason those types of stories disappear.

[Crash]

Ben changing his ways will be the biggest reason those types of stories disappear.

And again, who voted Ben Captain in 2008 and 2009? 2008 was before the Reno accusations broke and 2009 was after it, who voted Ben team MVP in 2009?

[Scalaid6]

Ben changing his ways will be the biggest reason those types of stories disappear.

And again, who voted Ben Captain in 2008 and 2009? 2008 was before the Reno accusations broke and 2009 was after it, who voted Ben team MVP in 2009?


WHO took Bens captain status from him after Georgia?
WHO didnt come to his defense when Goodell interviewed them?
WHO Dissed Ben as the team MVP in 07 when he was clearly the winner?
WHO has leaked story after story that Ben is not well liked by the team

ANSWER: THE STEELER PLAYERS

[Crash]

Ben changing his ways will be the biggest reason those types of stories disappear.

And again, who voted Ben Captain in 2008 and 2009? 2008 was before the Reno accusations broke and 2009 was after it, who voted Ben team MVP in 2009?


WHO took Bens captain status from him after Georgia?
WHO didnt come to his defense when Goodell interviewed them?
WHO Dissed Ben as the team MVP in 07 when he was clearly the winner?
WHO has leaked story after story that Ben is not well liked by the team

ANSWER: THE STEELER PLAYERS


I would bet most of it is Hines Ward. It's not secret they don't get along. Ward resents the fact that Ben and Plax were close.

Funny, the ONLY teammate you hear talking about how bad Ben is, is Ward.

[Scalaid6]

According to Goodell there were MORE PLAYERS THAN HINES.

How about Joey Porter? Marvel Smith? Ken Whisenhunt?

PROVE Hines resented how close Plax and Ben were. Hines sure got more balls than Plax

Maybe Hines. like most of the Steelers, is tired of him giving the team BAD PRESS. Maybe Hines, lkke most of the players is tired of Ben not putting 100% for the team. If Ben doesnt like what Hines says, why doesnt he shut Hines mouth? Because you and I BOTH know that Hines would kick Bens *ss in a fistfight.

What do you think Hines would do if Seymour did to him what he did to Ben? I think Hines is ejected for going ape sh*t on Seymour. Little Ben laid on the ground cowering like a girl.

[Crash]

Maybe Hines. like most of the Steelers, is tired of him giving the team BAD PRESS

Then Ward's a bigger idiot than you are.

Tell ya what? When Ben is confirmed of having a business partnership with drug dealers, then using the same drug dealer as a middle-man to buy cars? You let me know.

Then, also let me know when Ben holds out while under contract, after admitting he was considering holding out for an entire season with two years left on his contract like Ward was HeHateMe.


Joey Porter?

Porter has said NOTHING about Ben. What you got, was a RUMOR that Porter said it, which was disputed by current teammates.


Marvel Smith

The same guy who was busted with drugs? That's hilarious, a confirmed druggie talking about how someone else "gets away with stuff".


Ken Whisenhunt?

Wiz said Ben was affected by the 2006 accident. Ben, like a man refused to make excuses and took responsibility for his poor play.

[Scalaid6]

I'd rather be involved with a drug dealer than to have multiple rape allegations. Which incident brought the most NEGATIVE PRESS TO THE STEELERS. DO TELL.

Holding out is not a bad thing ESPECIALLY when you think you are being underpayed. Its a strategy to get more money and it worked. If you had a job you would understand this. Kinda hard to make a owner of a Kool Aid stand understand the finer arts of negotiations and leverage


Bill Cowher CONFIRMED that Peezy said what Logan, Najeh and Marvel said he said on the CBS INTERVIEW WITH BEN LOL. He and Ben DISCUSSED IT. LOL


Again, WHO has brought more bad press to the STEELERS Marvel or Ben?? DO TELL LOL


Wiz and Ben didnt like each other. FACT. In Wiz's 1st season in Arizona, we played them. ALL of the Steelers surrounded Wiz and congratulated him, ALL BUT BEN. Why wasnt Little Ben over there? Because WIZ MADE HIM WORK HARD and Ben resented that. This was further discussed after they BURRIED THE HATCHET during SB week in 08. Why the need to bury the hatchet IF THERE WAS NO ORIGINAL BEEF. Do watch the games on Channel Zero?

[Crash]

Wiz and Ben didnt like each other. FACT. In Wiz's 1st season in Arizona, we played them. ALL of the Steelers surrounded Wiz and congratulated him, ALL BUT BEN. Why wasnt Little Ben over there?

Simple, Ben didn't appreciate how Wiz threw him under the bus after 2006 when he left to go to Arizona. It was a cheap-shot that was uncalled for.

Wiz didn't make Ben work hard. Wiz treated Ben like a 2nd class citizen, here's the game plan. Run it.

Ben works harder now with the Tomlin staff than he ever had the chance to work under Wiz.


Bill Cowher CONFIRMED that Peezy said what Logan, Najeh and Marvel said he said on the CBS INTERVIEW WITH BEN LOL. He and Ben DISCUSSED IT. LOL

Current teammates disputed the version of Porter's comments that Logan and Davenport stated. They said Ben wasn't called out.

I saw Ben's interview with Cowher, it was fluff.

Davenport roughs up women, Smith's a junkie, and Logan got a PFA filed against him from his ex-wife. Hardly "credible" sources.

[Crash]

I'd rather be involved with a drug dealer than to have multiple rape allegations. Which incident brought the most NEGATIVE PRESS TO THE STEELERS. DO TELL.

Holding out is not a bad thing ESPECIALLY when you think you are being underpayed

Hines was offered the HIGHEST CONTRACT IN STEELERS HISTORY, and still refused to work.

Team guy my a$s.

[Scalaid6]

Oh, NOW there is a beef? Hmmm In your prior post you were all but denying such a beef. How do you explain the rumors of the rift when WIZ WAS HERE, prior to leaving. Ben has a rep of a LAZY quarterback. How do you think that was received by Wiz? LOL

Ben DOESNT work hard. PROVE THAT. WHEN have you ever heard of Ben staying after practice to work with the wideouts? When have you EVER heard of Ben flying his receivers out to work out.

BEN IS A PARTYIER. He flies Linemen out TO PARTY. He never flies players out to work on his craft. NEVER.


Porter called out Ben and YOU KNOW HE DID LOL. The fact that you try to put if off as rumor is comical. Najeh doesnt have as many WOMEN problems as Roethlisberger does. Woman point and whisper when Ben comes into a bar. Najeh is a UNKNOWN so he doesnt have that problem. I have NEVER heard of any womans group picketing Najeh. Ben however............... LOL


FACT- NO OTHER Steeler has brought the team as much bad press as BEN ROETHLISBERGER

[Scalaid6]

I'd rather be involved with a drug dealer than to have multiple rape allegations. Which incident brought the most NEGATIVE PRESS TO THE STEELERS. DO TELL.

Holding out is not a bad thing ESPECIALLY when you think you are being underpayed

Hines was offered the HIGHEST CONTRACT IN STEELERS HISTORY, and still refused to work.

Team guy my a$s.


His Teammates seem to think so. They KEEP voting him a captain. If Goodell interviewed them about Hines, they would have his back.

GUARANTEED

[Crash]

Yeah HeHateMe, that women's group picketed Ben because they didn't want "an accused rapist on the Steelers".

So where were they 2 weeks prior when Batch started against Baltimore? And the "leader" of said group? Has multiple arrests on her record.

[Scalaid6]

Hehateme- you seem to find fault in everyone EXCEPT Ben.

Fact is they were STILL there bringing NEGATIVE attention to the Steelers.

Psssst. Ask around the Steeler Message board community about SCALAID6 and you will find that I have been around for over 5 years.

I AM NO IMITATION

LOL

[grotonsteel]

I'd rather be involved with a drug dealer



So you prefer drugs over allegations...

Keep up the good work. I hope you are only a 12 year old kid.

[Scalaid6]

I'd rather be involved with a drug dealer



So you prefer drugs over allegations...

Keep up the good work. I hope you are only a 12 year old kid.


Those ALLEGATIONS were far more damaging to this organization than anything in our history. It caused negative media attention, a suspension, owners seeking to trade Ben, picketing and loss of endorsements for Roethlisberger.

When an unbiased individual weighs the two, then of course the former is better than the latter.

[grotonsteel]

I'd rather be involved with a drug dealer



So you prefer drugs over allegations...

Keep up the good work. I hope you are only a 12 year old kid.


Those ALLEGATIONS were far more damaging to this organization than anything in our history. It caused negative media attention, a suspension, owners seeking to trade Ben, picketing and loss of endorsements for Roethlisberger.

When an unbiased individual weighs the two, then of course the former is better than the latter.


Sorry but to support drug use over allegations is just sick. Unless you are into it then i can understand where you are coming from.

[Scalaid6]

As stated previously WHAT had the more negative effect on the Franchise?

TELLING

[Crash]

As stated previously WHAT had the more negative effect on the Franchise?

TELLING

So media overreaction is too blame.

You'll notice that once the facts came out that media wanted to "move on" and not report them.

[Blockhead]

Crash's one man crusade aside, there is no one in their right mind that can argue Ben's actions in one year alone haven't stained the franchise more than Hines has ever done, combined, in his years here.

[Crash]

Crash's one man crusade aside, there is no one in their right mind that can argue Ben's actions in one year alone haven't stained the franchise more than Hines has ever done, combined, in his years here.

You don't know what his actions were. You weren't there.

[Blockhead]

Crash's one man crusade aside, there is no one in their right mind that can argue Ben's actions in one year alone haven't stained the franchise more than Hines has ever done, combined, in his years here.

You don't know what his actions were. You weren't there.

Yeah, okay.

[Crash]

Crash's one man crusade aside, there is no one in their right mind that can argue Ben's actions in one year alone haven't stained the franchise more than Hines has ever done, combined, in his years here.

You don't know what his actions were. You weren't there.

Yeah, okay.

So you were there? Ok then.

Facts. Use them. You see how this works is, if you want others here to use "facts", you must do the same.

[Blockhead]

Crash's one man crusade aside, there is no one in their right mind that can argue Ben's actions in one year alone haven't stained the franchise more than Hines has ever done, combined, in his years here.

You don't know what his actions were. You weren't there.

Yeah, okay.

So you were there? Ok then.

Facts. Use them. You see how this works is, if you want others here to use "facts", you must do the same.
No, just like you weren't there for any of Hines'.

Whatever Ben's actions were, they have stained the franchise more in one year than anything Hines has done in his career, combined.

FACT!

[snarky]

This thread is like The View with Y chromosomes.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

This thread is like The View with Y chromosomes.
:lol:

[Crash]

No, just like you weren't there for any of Hines'.

So Hines didn't hold out in 2005, or call out his QB for not lying about a concussion on TV?

If that wasn't Hines Ward who was it? Eric Green?

Funny, Sidney Crosby may have done what Hines wanted Ben to do.

Now his career is in jeopardy.

Hines should remember this the next time he thinks he's a concussion expert.

[Chadman]

This thread is like The View with Y chromosomes.


Agree with everything, except the Y chromosones part..

[eniparadoxgma]

This thread is like The View with Y chromosomes.


Agree with everything, except the Y chromosones part..

QFT.

[Blockhead]

No, just like you weren't there for any of Hines'.

So Hines didn't hold out in 2005, or call out his QB for not lying about a concussion on TV?

If that wasn't Hines Ward who was it? Eric Green?

Funny, Sidney Crosby may have done what Hines wanted Ben to do.

Now his career is in jeopardy.

Hines should remember this the next time he thinks he's a concussion expert.
Fine, let's say Hines' did all of that.

All of that is not even close to how Ben stained the franchise in the last two years. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

[Crash]

No, just like you weren't there for any of Hines'.

So Hines didn't hold out in 2005, or call out his QB for not lying about a concussion on TV?

If that wasn't Hines Ward who was it? Eric Green?

Funny, Sidney Crosby may have done what Hines wanted Ben to do.

Now his career is in jeopardy.

Hines should remember this the next time he thinks he's a concussion expert.
Fine, let's say Hines' did all of that.

All of that is not even close to how Ben stained the franchise in the last two years. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Accusations by a whack job and drunken bar sluts mean nothing to me.

Anyone can be accused of a crime.

Bright's no probable cause statement and McNulty's own words prove Ben's innocence.

[Scalaid6]

isnt is IRONIC that Ben is the ONLY NFL player "being framed"

ITS A CONSPIRACY