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steelerkeylargo
03-08-2011, 11:55 PM
I mentioned that a source who represents some prominent Steelers told me they are loking to move ahead of Baltimore.

Steelers to trade up?
4:51
PM ETPittsburgh Steelers TopEmailCommentsShare With the NFL's labor situation unresolved, there's a very real possibility that there won't be veteran players available to be traded before or during the course of the draft. As a result, teams that want to move up or down will need to make pick-for-pick trades.

With that in mind, the Pittsburgh Steelers may be a candidate to move up in order to draft a particular player: center Maurkice Pouncey's twin brother Mike.

Whether or not the Steelers actually make the move will depend on how the draft plays out through the picks in the mid-teens, as ESPN AFC North blogger James Walker explained during his chat on Tuesday afternoon:

Blockhead
03-09-2011, 12:07 AM
I can't say I would be happy with that move, especially if we lose picks in the process. If we just exchange picks, I'd be fine with it but we need all the picks we can get.

Something like 1 and 2 for 1 and 3 I would be fine with though.

Way too early to tell if a move up is even going to be needed.

Chadman
03-09-2011, 12:10 AM
Not saying your sources are no good- but given the uncertainty on FA at this point, plotting trades etc is just pie in the sky.

Always a little skeptical when info comes out like this weeks in advance of the draft- pretty sure the Steelers are good at keeping their intentions hidden.

Shawn
03-09-2011, 12:29 AM
Yeah, I'm not sure of the credibility. Who in the Steelers organization in the know would actually reveal the draft plan? The only way I believe they would let something like this leak is if they wanted to panic Baltimore into moving up.

When presented with a guy like Wilkerson or Heyward...one of which or both of which should be there at 31 vs Pouncey is there really that much value in trading up?

I like Pouncey but I would suggest not. I'll believe it when I see it.

PSU_dropout43
03-09-2011, 01:00 AM
Doesn't pass mustard.

hawaiiansteel
03-09-2011, 01:07 AM
to move ahead of the Ravens would cost us our 3rd round draft choice, a pretty steep price to pay in a year where there is good depth at CB and on the OL available in the 3rd round.

RuthlessBurgher
03-09-2011, 01:14 AM
I can't say I would be happy with that move, especially if we lose picks in the process. If we just exchange picks, I'd be fine with it but we need all the picks we can get.

Something like 1 and 2 for 1 and 3 I would be fine with though.

Way too early to tell if a move up is even going to be needed.

We could move ahead of Baltimore by trading with Seattle at #25.

Our 1st and 3rd is exactly equivalent to their 1st on the trade value chart.

1.31 (600) + 3.95 (120) = 1.25 (720)

The Sodfather
03-09-2011, 07:32 AM
You never know but I have a hard time believing they would trade up for a guard. Especially with the reported interest they had in all those mid round guards at the combine.

Of course we traded up for a ****ing punter so anything is possible.

Oviedo
03-09-2011, 09:21 AM
I hate giving away picks. Not my preferred option. I'll call Colbert tonight and register my displeasure :wink:

steelerkeylargo
03-09-2011, 09:54 AM
Just don't be surprised when you see it happen.

Flasteel
03-09-2011, 10:53 AM
Surprised? Hardly. :D

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16613&p=204782#p204782 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16613&p=204782#p204782)

steelerkeylargo
03-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I hate giving away picks. Not my preferred option. I'll call Colbert tonight and register my displeasure :wink:


Let me know if you need his number.

Oviedo
03-09-2011, 12:44 PM
I hate giving away picks. Not my preferred option. I'll call Colbert tonight and register my displeasure :wink:


Let me know if you need his number.

Thanks, but I may wait til when he comes over for dinner during the UCF Pro Day :wink:

Seriously, thank you for all the good info you add to this site.

steelerkeylargo
03-09-2011, 12:50 PM
I hate giving away picks. Not my preferred option. I'll call Colbert tonight and register my displeasure :wink:


Let me know if you need his number.

Thanks, but I may wait til when he comes over for dinner during the UCF Pro Day :wink:

Seriously, thank you for all the good info you add to this site.

:Cheers :tt1

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-09-2011, 01:50 PM
And see...Not many liked my Pouncey X 2 tread and suggesting trading up. Ahead of the Ravens could mean Pouncey or a CB. Giving up a 3rd for a starter is not a big deal with the way this draft is grading out. This is a deep draft at CB & DL. Trading up in the 1st and out of the 2nd could still net you 7 picks. They way this draft looks, there are a number of graded CBs right in the 3rd. You could give up a 3rd, trade out of the 2nd for a 3rd & 4th. Get quality players.

If you just take some guys they interviewed at the combine.

1 TO Mike Pouncey (Steelers 1 & 3)
2 TD (For 3* & 4*)
3* Brandon Burton CB
3 Traded
4* Jarvis Jenkins DL / Lance Kendricks TE
4 Lee Ziemba OT / Zack Hurd OL (Hurd has been projected to play OT as well as G)

I would be happy with that draft. Not a big fan of Burtons yet but apparently the Steelers are.

aggiebones
03-09-2011, 02:05 PM
lol, this thought is funny.
What do the Steelers do best (aside from draft subterfuge)?

They don't panic. They don't overstretch to get someone. If someone is falling, then yes, they'll reach up nearby and grab that player. Like Holmes or Troy, who were both talentwise, good moves.
BUT Pouncey likely will go higher than his grade. Why? His brothers success. Someone will likely jump too early to grab him based on his brother's success. Someone will likely reach and reach past his value. It won't be the Steelers.
If they value him around 25 and alot of their players have fallen off the board, then maybe they make a move. They will not jump to grab the second best of the 2 twins. Its a nice story, nothing more.
I'm sure other teams are trying to entice the Steelers to jump up and use their pick on him as well.

birtikidis
03-09-2011, 02:09 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-09-2011, 03:00 PM
lol, this thought is funny.
What do the Steelers do best (aside from draft subterfuge)?

They don't panic. They don't overstretch to get someone. If someone is falling, then yes, they'll reach up nearby and grab that player. Like Holmes or Troy, who were both talentwise, good moves.
BUT Pouncey likely will go higher than his grade. Why? His brothers success. Someone will likely jump too early to grab him based on his brother's success. Someone will likely reach and reach past his value. It won't be the Steelers.
If they value him around 25 and alot of their players have fallen off the board, then maybe they make a move. They will not jump to grab the second best of the 2 twins. Its a nice story, nothing more.
I'm sure other teams are trying to entice the Steelers to jump up and use their pick on him as well.

Top rated interior OL in the draft. Has nothing to do with his brother's success. Earned everything on his own by his play. It's funny you mentioned Holmes & Troy. Steelers moved up to take the highest rated player at his position...First S off the board in Troy Polamalu. Steelers moved up to take the highest rated player at his position...First WR off the board in Santonio Holmes. Don't be surprised when the Steelers continue that trend and moved up to take the highest rated player at his position...First OG off the board in Mike Pouncey. Polamalu & Holmes were moves to grab a position of need for the Steelers for players that the Steelers felt could contribute right away. Sound familiar?

Why is this a realistic scenario? Because the Steelers 2 biggest needs are CB & OG. They Steelers are likely to be left out of the first round CB crop because of their position. The only one with 1st round talent grade that could be in reach or fall is Jimmy Smith. The Steelers will be hesitant to draft Smith because of his off field issues and failed drug test. Once Petersen & Amukamara are off the board, there are teams at the end of the 1st looking for a CB. Williams has received 1st round consideration both Williams & Smith might not make it past Seattle & Baltimore.

Baltimore is in needs of a CB and C. This is what makes it interested. The Steelers are in need of a CB & G. Which on could it be? I would speculate it is unlikely the Steelers will jump up to take Smith with his off field issues if he is there at #25. I also think they will not want to trade up for Williams at #25. I think there is a good possibilty that a team will overdraft Williams because they need a CB and Smith is the guy still on the board. And if the Ravens are faced with a Smith, Williams, or Pouncey...I believe they take Pouncey. Birk will be 35 by season start. Being that there is a drop off from Pouncey to Wisniewski in a rather weak C class and the CB class is strong through the first 3 rounds....Add in Smith's off field issues...The Ravens have an easy choice. That would be my logical reasoning why the Steelers want to get ahead of the Ravens.

One thing your are not considering. Steelers are picking #31. The Steelers took Pouncey @ #18. Moving up "to grab the second best of the 2 twins" at #25 is not "overstretching" to get the highest rated player at his position who will start day 1. It is called getting another impact player who will help this team for the next 10 years. I would say that it is simply, "Good Bidniz!"

Oviedo
03-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-09-2011, 03:25 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.

Sitting at #31 and overdrafting a CB who could be hit or miss and possibly wasting a first round pick versus Not trading up for Mike Pouncey who goes on to start day 1 and become a Perennial Pro Bowler for another team doesn't sound like "overpaying" to me. Trading up sounds like the Steelers did their due diligence and made the best move that would impact the team for the immediate and long term future. You can always get picks back in a draft. You can never get the caliber of player who someone picked ahead of you.

Blockhead
03-09-2011, 03:48 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.
Yeah, I'm with you. Now if we get a 4th back, I'd be fine.

RuthlessBurgher
03-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.

Losing a 3rd round pick to get him at #25 is neither a steal nor overpaying.

It is the cost of doing good business to get the best player in the draft at a position of need.

Losing a 2nd round pick to get him at #19 would be overpaying.

Having him fall into our laps at #31 without having to give up anything would be a steal.

birtikidis
03-09-2011, 05:21 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.
You're crazy. Drafting the best player, and a guy who would solidify that position for the next 10 years is not overpaying. especially when you're hoping that a 3rd rounder can be a starter at best but most likely just a contributor. That's like saying giving up a pick for Troy P. was a waste.

birtikidis
03-09-2011, 05:23 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.

Sitting at #31 and overdrafting a CB who could be hit or miss and possibly wasting a first round pick versus Not trading up for Mike Pouncey who goes on to start day 1 and become a Perennial Pro Bowler for another team doesn't sound like "overpaying" to me. Trading up sounds like the Steelers did their due diligence and made the best move that would impact the team for the immediate and long term future. You can always get picks back in a draft. You can never get the caliber of player who someone picked ahead of you.
wow someone who gets it.
everyone wants to "REACH" for a corner because of a perceived deficiency there.. A corner who may not be even top 5 at his position. A player who has no chance to start from day one. that's what I call worriesome.

aggiebones
03-09-2011, 05:34 PM
Guards can be found in loose places. There are solid ones in FA at reasonable prices. Stop saying G is such a need. You can afford one 1st rounder for the interior OL. We have him already.

We have needs all over the fecking place.
CB and Tackle first and foremost! Then bump Colon down to G
DL in the VERY near future at the other DE or NT
MLB
And at some near point a new Safety.

Mike is not as good as his brother. Here's an old exerpt:

"Intangibles: Nearly identical twin brother Maurkice was Florida's starting center each of the past three seasons and was selected No. 18 overall pick of the 2010 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers. Prior to Maurkice leaving Florida early for the NFL, the twins made most of their decisions together. Maurkice wasn't willing to sign with Florida until they offered Mike a scholarship, for example. The twins selected Florida over Florida State, Clemson, Miami (Fla.) and Michigan. "

He's always been second fiddle. Maybe he ends up an All-Pro, but its not just genetics (and I'm a geneticist by trade). And again, we don't need to use back to back 1st rounders on interior OL.

aggiebones
03-09-2011, 05:40 PM
The other point I meant to make is that this is a good draft for Guards. And while Mike is very good, so are alot of players in the 1st round. They may be able to get a top DE and a guard rated only slightly behind Mike.

We'll see. Noone knows what the Steelers will do.
But if the past ten years are an indication, they will not miss.

steelz09
03-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.

I disagree. I wouldn't mind losing a 3rd rounder to get Pouncey. Wouldn't it be nice to say the Steelers solidified the interior of their line for once (w/ the exception of Kemo who could lose his job)? People are acting like a 3rd round pick is a guaranteed starter. He may never see the field. Pouncey is a low risk pick.

Oviedo
03-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Guards can be found in loose places. There are solid ones in FA at reasonable prices. Stop saying G is such a need. You can afford one 1st rounder for the interior OL. We have him already.

We have needs all over the fecking place.
CB and Tackle first and foremost! Then bump Colon down to G
DL in the VERY near future at the other DE or NT
MLB
And at some near point a new Safety.

Mike is not as good as his brother. Here's an old exerpt:

"Intangibles: Nearly identical twin brother Maurkice was Florida's starting center each of the past three seasons and was selected No. 18 overall pick of the 2010 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers. Prior to Maurkice leaving Florida early for the NFL, the twins made most of their decisions together. Maurkice wasn't willing to sign with Florida until they offered Mike a scholarship, for example. The twins selected Florida over Florida State, Clemson, Miami (Fla.) and Michigan. "

He's always been second fiddle. Maybe he ends up an All-Pro, but its not just genetics (and I'm a geneticist by trade). And again, we don't need to use back to back 1st rounders on interior OL.

Here is someone who really DOES GET IT!!!!

Mike IS NOT, I Repeat, IS NOT Maurkice. He stayed in college for a reason. He IS NOT as good. Back to back Round 1 picks on interior line ties up a high percentage of salary cap on the interior line. Not smart.

We need OT and CB much, much, much more!!!!!!!

steelz09
03-09-2011, 05:56 PM
Guards can be found in loose places. There are solid ones in FA at reasonable prices. Stop saying G is such a need. You can afford one 1st rounder for the interior OL. We have him already.

We have needs all over the fecking place.
CB and Tackle first and foremost! Then bump Colon down to G
DL in the VERY near future at the other DE or NT
MLB
And at some near point a new Safety.

Mike is not as good as his brother. Here's an old exerpt:

"Intangibles: Nearly identical twin brother Maurkice was Florida's starting center each of the past three seasons and was selected No. 18 overall pick of the 2010 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers. Prior to Maurkice leaving Florida early for the NFL, the twins made most of their decisions together. Maurkice wasn't willing to sign with Florida until they offered Mike a scholarship, for example. The twins selected Florida over Florida State, Clemson, Miami (Fla.) and Michigan. "

He's always been second fiddle. Maybe he ends up an All-Pro, but its not just genetics (and I'm a geneticist by trade). And again, we don't need to use back to back 1st rounders on interior OL.

Yup, guards are easy to find..... which explains why we've had such an easy time replacing Faneca when he left. :roll:

birtikidis
03-09-2011, 06:06 PM
I can't see how Tackle is such a need.
we have 10 of them. and one guard.\
yea mike isn't maurkice, but we don't need maurkice. we already have a center. which is how you're evaluating him. but then your pre-draft analysis of Maurkice wasn't exactly spot on. You'd have had us take a position we didn't need to take. This year, you'd have us take a position where we have need, just no good players. you do a lot of reaching Ovi.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Guards can be found in loose places. There are solid ones in FA at reasonable prices. Stop saying G is such a need. You can afford one 1st rounder for the interior OL. We have him already.

We have needs all over the fecking place.
CB and Tackle first and foremost! Then bump Colon down to G
DL in the VERY near future at the other DE or NT
MLB
And at some near point a new Safety.

Mike is not as good as his brother. Here's an old exerpt:

"Intangibles: Nearly identical twin brother Maurkice was Florida's starting center each of the past three seasons and was selected No. 18 overall pick of the 2010 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers. Prior to Maurkice leaving Florida early for the NFL, the twins made most of their decisions together. Maurkice wasn't willing to sign with Florida until they offered Mike a scholarship, for example. The twins selected Florida over Florida State, Clemson, Miami (Fla.) and Michigan. "

He's always been second fiddle. Maybe he ends up an All-Pro, but its not just genetics (and I'm a geneticist by trade). And again, we don't need to use back to back 1st rounders on interior OL.

Guard is our biggest need along with CB. And we haven't been able to find a G in your so called "loose places". It is obvious the step this OL took with Pouncey. Having a right handed offense clearly hinders this offense and makes it very predictable. You can afford whatever you want in a position if it makes the football team better and has a weakness. There isn't a receipe for success and saying only one 1st rounder for position shows your lack of football knowledge. You do remember the most recent elite OL the Steelers had was made up of multiple 1st rounders(3) and a 2nd rounder? Hartings was a 1st rounder by the Lions. Faneca & Simmons were 1st rounders and Smith was a second. Complaints??? I didn't here any. Of course we have needs down the line. Nobody said trade all 7 picks to move to #25 and I'm not certain...But there just might be another draft next year. :shock: But we have a chance to address immediate need that will start day one and pay dividends. So draft a guy who sits on the bench 2 or 3 years while the interior OL & offense struggles while the window closes on the talent the Steelers put together over the years. Good plan!

I didn't say Mike was better than his brother and how does that matter in a conversation of trading up from #31 to #25 for the top player at his position and one of our biggest needs? It doesn't. Maurkice at #18...Mike at #25. I'm sure you had to take math as a geneticist so you can do the math. Genetics is not part of the conversation. Best at his position...Position of need for Steelers. His name could be Mike Skippy. It is about value. How does bringing up what happened at Florida have to do with a conversation about trading up? Again, clearly don't know how things work. Does that mean Mike wasn't scholarship material and Maurkice wouldn't go there unless they offered Mike one? Colleges have limited scholarships to give per year. Keeps parity in the college system. Maybe Florida had plans to offer scholarships at other positions. Mike was scholarship material. He was recruited.

So what does "second fiddle" have to do with grading a player. He's not his brother at the C position. Maurkice isn't Mike at G. Mike is more stout at the point of attack. Maurkice more athletic. BUT...Both have athleticism that make them elite at their position. Both can get to the second level quickly and eliminate LBs. Both are capable in space and under control. Both have good hands, strong punch, quick setup in pass pro, great feet, solid technique, understand leverage, good knee benders, can work off combination blocks, find their target on their run, nasty, and finish blocks. More importantly, both will solidify their position for a decade and see several Pro Bowls. The word "genetics" never came up in that analysis.

I will take it upon myself to educate you in football. To make a reference about moving Colon to G after 4 years after we have seen his body of work tells the tale. Colon does not have the feet to play G. Let the comments begin about G athleticism versus OT athleticism. The Steelers G are asked to trap & pull. Colon is built like a G but he doesn't have the ankle flex to help his change of direction. He has a good kick slide to hold the corner. To compare, Pouncey during his kick slide position drill rarely beat the rusher to the cone. He has the short chops and can't cover as much going backwards. BUT...There isn't an OL on this team that has the quickness going forward in his phonebooth and body control he posesses. You get a OT with the long legs in his kick slide he covers the ground quickly but isn't churning his legs as quickly and can recover to the inside move while he can maintain a plant & wide base. An OL who has to churn his legs quickly backwards to cover the ground is vulnerable going upfield to an inside move. The quick steps lighten & narrow you base and a club by a rusher can easily throw you off balance and get you high in you setup. For the record...I know football...And I get it! I have to say... the line of "but its not just genetics (and I'm a geneticist by trade)" really was a treat. :lol:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-09-2011, 09:56 PM
The other point I meant to make is that this is a good draft for Guards. And while Mike is very good, so are alot of players in the 1st round. They may be able to get a top DE and a guard rated only slightly behind Mike.

We'll see. Noone knows what the Steelers will do.
But if the past ten years are an indication, they will not miss.

It's not a great draft for G's but pretty decent. But it is deep at CB & DL especially in the 2-4 rounds. But you are not lookin at the road in front of you... The FO will. The "window" is now...Just like when Troy & Tone were picked. They will do everything in their power not to draft a player in the 1st who will sit for 2 years behind a vet when they have a plug & play guy within reach at one of their biggest needs.That means trading up as first priority or trading back if nobody is there. If those options close, then they will take BPA. If BPA happens...It could be a setback. There is a reason there will be more 30+ players on this team and 2 coordinators operating on 1 year contracts.
Tick...Tick...Tick... :!:

Sugar
03-09-2011, 10:13 PM
No more OL early, IMO. We have other needs and have been able to do fine on the line even with the injuries we had there last year. If we're going Offense, then I'd rather get Ben another weapon than a protector. That said, we have an aging D and about any position other than LB should be considered. If we can get somebody worthwhile in a trade-up, great. I'm hoping that if we do it's not another OL.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-09-2011, 10:15 PM
Guards can be found in loose places. There are solid ones in FA at reasonable prices. Stop saying G is such a need. You can afford one 1st rounder for the interior OL. We have him already.

We have needs all over the fecking place.
CB and Tackle first and foremost! Then bump Colon down to G
DL in the VERY near future at the other DE or NT
MLB
And at some near point a new Safety.

Mike is not as good as his brother. Here's an old exerpt:

"Intangibles: Nearly identical twin brother Maurkice was Florida's starting center each of the past three seasons and was selected No. 18 overall pick of the 2010 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers. Prior to Maurkice leaving Florida early for the NFL, the twins made most of their decisions together. Maurkice wasn't willing to sign with Florida until they offered Mike a scholarship, for example. The twins selected Florida over Florida State, Clemson, Miami (Fla.) and Michigan. "

He's always been second fiddle. Maybe he ends up an All-Pro, but its not just genetics (and I'm a geneticist by trade). And again, we don't need to use back to back 1st rounders on interior OL.

Here is someone who really DOES GET IT!!!!

Mike IS NOT, I Repeat, IS NOT Maurkice. He stayed in college for a reason. He IS NOT as good. Back to back Round 1 picks on interior line ties up a high percentage of salary cap on the interior line. Not smart.

We need OT and CB much, much, much more!!!!!!!

Who said Mike is Maurkice? Nobody. Nobody is suggeting going higher than 18 to get him. #25...Is that fair for top interior OL....Absolutely! Does that make you argument in anyway? No..It doesn't. He stayed in college because he was told he projected in the 2nd round. Returning and showing his flexibilty at C could increase his stock. Back to back 1st rounders on the OL doesn't tie up a large percentage of salary. Being forced to go out in FA and sign a proven vet because the window is closing does. And paying a guy 1st round money to sit on the bench for 2 years has even a bigger impact. The Steelers will need an OT at the earliest next year...Not this year. We need a starting CB...No doubt. But the Steelers might not be in a position to get that CB in round 1. There might not even be one in reach. And waiting until your pick and missing on a CB while not being able to find anyone to trade back would leave the Steelers taking BPA. That won't be a CB because it is starting to look like there is 3 1st round CBs in this draft and one of them isn't on the Steelers board. But there could be a player who fills an immediate and long term void within reach...That is the right move. Giving up a 3rd and trading out of the 2nd will still net you the picks you need to target your other needs right where those needs are graded out.

Posted this in the beginning and it fills the needs everyone is bringing up:
1 TO Mike Pouncey (Steelers 1 & 3)
2 TD (For 3* & 4*)
3* Brandon Burton CB
3 Traded
4* Jarvis Jenkins DL / Lance Kendricks TE
4 Lee Ziemba OT / Zack Hurd OL (Hurd has been projected to play OT as well as G)

I would pleased with that. Not sold on Burton yet because he was lit up against Pit & Boise but the Steelers like him and they have seen his full body of work.

StarSpangledSteeler
03-09-2011, 10:19 PM
I think there are two main issues here:

1) The evaluation of Mike Pouncey the player.
2) The value of trading up.

1) There are some people who think Pouncey is a second rounder and that the only reason he gets any of this talk is because of his last name. Others believe he is a potential pro-bowler at OG. I don't mind the differing opinions. I think its part of the fun of these discussion boards. Eventually we will see who is right and who is wrong. I personally will go on record as saying I think Pouncey is the best interior OL prospect in the 2011 draft (on his own merits). I think the Steelers have a serious need at OG. And I think Mike Pouncey would both start from day one and be an immediate upgrade from anyone on our current roster.

2) There are a lot of people who cringe at the idea of giving up a 3rd round pick. They view a 3rd rounder as a potential Wallace or Sanders. That's fine. I respect that. There are also people who view a 3rd rounder as a potential Urbik or Davis. That's fine also. I respect that as well. But remember that over the last 10-15 years the percentage of Steeler 3rd round draft picks to contribute in any way is around 29%. Most of those are journeymen. (We did a pick by pick analysis on another board but I won't get into that right now.) Over 70% of all our 3rd round picks never even saw the field. I personally feel that our 1st + 3rd rounder is a fair price for Mike Pouncey.

StarSpangledSteeler
03-09-2011, 10:36 PM
We need a starting CB...No doubt. But the Steelers might not be in a position to get that CB in round 1. There might not even be one in reach. And waiting until your pick and missing on a CB while not being able to find anyone to trade back would leave the Steelers taking BPA. That won't be a CB because it is starting to look like there is 3 1st round CBs in this draft and one of them isn't on the Steelers board.


I pretty much agree with this. I don't think anyone on this board would argue our need for a starting CB (even 2 CB's). The question is will the CB's available at 1.31 represent the best value? And how far is drop in value from those at 2.31? I'm beginning to think the value will be better in the 2nd round.

hawaiiansteel
03-09-2011, 10:42 PM
I think there are two main issues here:

1) The evaluation of Mike Pouncey the player.
2) The value of trading up.

1) There are some people who think Pouncey is a second rounder and that the only reason he gets any of this talk is because of his last name. Others believe he is a potential pro-bowler at OG. I don't mind the differing opinions. I think its part of the fun of these discussion boards. Eventually we will see who is right and who is wrong. I personally will go on record as saying I think Pouncey is the best interior OL prospect in the 2011 draft (on his own merits). I think the Steelers have a serious need at OG. And I think Mike Pouncey would both start from day one and be an immediate upgrade from anyone on our current roster.

2) There are a lot of people who cringe at the idea of giving up a 3rd round pick. They view a 3rd rounder as a potential Wallace or Sanders. That's fine. I respect that. There are also people who view a 3rd rounder as a potential Urbik or Davis. That's fine also. I respect that as well. But remember that over the last 10-15 years the percentage of Steeler 3rd round draft picks to contribute in any way is around 29%. Most of those are journeymen. (We did a pick by pick analysis on another board but I won't get into that right now.) Over 70% of all our 3rd round picks never even saw the field. I personally feel that our 1st + 3rd rounder is a fair price for Mike Pouncey.


very well stated! :Clap

RuthlessBurgher
03-09-2011, 10:48 PM
I personally will go on record as saying I think Pouncey is the best interior OL prospect in the 2011 draft (on his own merits).

I'll take this even one step further.

I think Pouncey is the best overall OL prospect in the draft, not just the best interior OL prospect.

Tackles will get drafted before him, because teams put more of a premium on tackles than guards, but there is no elite tackle prospect this season. No Jake Longs or Joe Thomases in the bunch. They all have their individual strengths and weaknesses, but it is difficult to come up with a consensus best player among the top 5 OT prospects in this draft. Smith? Castanzo? Solder? Carimi? Sherrod? The top tackle in this draft (whoever that might be) could end up being Jeff Backus level guy (solid enough, but not anywhere near spectacular).

However, I think Mike Pouncey is head and shoulders above the other interior o-lineman this year. He could be a Faneca/Hutchinson level prospect. You have to really nitpick to find weaknesses in his game (for instance the poor shotgun snaps earlier this season, which mean nothing to us, since we wouldn't be using him as a center anyway).

Blockhead
03-09-2011, 10:54 PM
I personally will go on record as saying I think Pouncey is the best interior OL prospect in the 2011 draft (on his own merits).

I'll take this even one step further.

I think Pouncey is the best overall OL prospect in the draft, not just the best interior OL prospect.
I'd take Solder, Carimi, Smith over him in a heartbeat. Solder and SMith have incredible upsides and rare athleticism for their size. Carimi is more ready now but a lower ceiling imo.

grotonsteel
03-09-2011, 11:06 PM
We need a starting CB...No doubt. But the Steelers might not be in a position to get that CB in round 1. There might not even be one in reach. And waiting until your pick and missing on a CB while not being able to find anyone to trade back would leave the Steelers taking BPA. That won't be a CB because it is starting to look like there is 3 1st round CBs in this draft and one of them isn't on the Steelers board.


I pretty much agree with this. I don't think anyone on this board would argue our need for a starting CB (even 2 CB's). The question is will the CB's available at 1.31 represent the best value? And how far is drop in value from those at 2.31? I'm beginning to think the value will be better in the 2nd round.

Steelers have not been able to develop a CB in later rounds except Ike Taylor in Rd 4. Ike Taylor is 31. In a couple of years he is going to lose his biggest asset SPEED. Steelers take 2-3 years to develop a CB. If you don't draft a CB early in this draft Steelers better be ready to sign one in Free Agency,.

Would i be happy to draft Mike Pouncey at 31?? Absolutely. Would i give a 3rd draft choice when FA is not available...Hell No....

I think it all comes to this is there a huge difference between say a guy like Brandon Harris and Burton or between Pouncey and Cannon?

I know one thing for sure Steelers value versatility. Is Mike versatile enough to give up a 3rd Rd player? If Steelers think he can play LG/RG/C at next level they will trade up. If Steelers think he is strictly a RG at next level no way Steelers give a 3rd pick for pure RG.

aggiebones
03-09-2011, 11:17 PM
The other point I meant to make is that this is a good draft for Guards. And while Mike is very good, so are alot of players in the 1st round. They may be able to get a top DE and a guard rated only slightly behind Mike.

We'll see. Noone knows what the Steelers will do.
But if the past ten years are an indication, they will not miss.

It's not a great draft for G's but pretty decent. But it is deep at CB & DL especially in the 2-4 rounds. But you are not lookin at the road in front of you... The FO will. The "window" is now...Just like when Troy & Tone were picked. They will do everything in their power not to draft a player in the 1st who will sit for 2 years behind a vet when they have a plug & play guy within reach at one of their biggest needs.That means trading up as first priority or trading back if nobody is there. If those options close, then they will take BPA. If BPA happens...It could be a setback. There is a reason there will be more 30+ players on this team and 2 coordinators operating on 1 year contracts.
Tick...Tick...Tick... :!:


We both know the Steelers don't work that way. If they did, the could just trade that pick and get a developed starting guy from half the league.

RuthlessBurgher
03-09-2011, 11:21 PM
I personally will go on record as saying I think Pouncey is the best interior OL prospect in the 2011 draft (on his own merits).

I'll take this even one step further.

I think Pouncey is the best overall OL prospect in the draft, not just the best interior OL prospect.
I'd take Solder, Carimi, Smith over him in a heartbeat. Solder and SMith have incredible upsides and rare athleticism for their size. Carimi is more ready now but a lower ceiling imo.

Solder, although he's athletic, looks too tall and awkward to me. He's got good knee bend, but at his height, he would have to bend them so much to get under a guy that I doubt he would be all that effective.

Carimi on the scale of ex-Badger o-lineman, seems to have just as many Kraig Urbik qualities as Joe Thomas qualities. Not a big-time mauler, and not a tremendous athlete either.

Smith, although he has an imposing wingspan, just seems like more of an Alex Gibbs type of lineman, which isn't our style (impressive to see him bulk up to 307 for the combine, but he always played at around 285 in college...how do those extra 20 pounds translate to the field of play...and can he keep them on?).

I certainly wouldn't complain if we got any of the guys you mentioned here. All look to have solid NFL potential, but there seems to be more questions about them than a guy like Pouncey. That's all that I was saying. I just see Mike as more of a sure thing than the OT prospects, even though tackles tend to be "worth" more than guards in NFL circles.

Among the top 5 OT's, one may become elite (A), one may be an above average starter (B), one may be a run of the mill starter (C), one may be a career backup (D), and one may be out of the league in a couple of seasons (F). And I have no clue at this point which of the OT prospect might fall in which category at this point. Whereas at guard, I think that getting another Pouncey gives us an A+ level ceiling with a floor of, say, B+ (unless unpredictable chronic injuries strike, of course).

Blockhead
03-09-2011, 11:29 PM
I'll gamble on the elite LT player everytime over an interior player.

RuthlessBurgher
03-09-2011, 11:36 PM
I'll gamble on the elite LT player everytime over an interior player.

I'd agree with you if we had a revolving door involving the likes of Darnell Stapleton, Trai Essex, Ramon Foster, and Doug Legursky at LT for the last several seasons. But I think Max Starks has been reasonably solid (when healthy) for us there as compared to our inferior interior line of late. He may not be a Pro Bowler, but he's not the slug many posters portray him to be either. A LT prospect would be a backup next season, while Pouncey would be a starter and should be an improvement over any RG we have had there is a long, long time.

Blockhead
03-09-2011, 11:41 PM
I'm certainly not against taking Pouncey. I'm not thrilled about moving up for him. I wouldn't take him over any of the three I listed though. I'd rather put any of those three in at RG or RT next year than have Pouncey but I don't think it will matter. I suspect all are gone and possibly Pouncey is the best option at 31. I'd be lying if I said I would be thrilled to hear we moved up for Pouncey though.

I'd rather grab a Moffit, etc. later if all are gone. I personally think the best player at 31 will be a defensive player over any OL and we'll wait on the OL until the 2nd or later.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-10-2011, 09:42 AM
I agree with Ruth. None of the OT have "elite" written on them. Pouncey does. The OT could develop into something special but they all have ther flaws. The OT with the highest ceiling is Tyron Smith. Even Smith has to gain some more bulk to play at the next level. He projects better to the LT spot but has limited experience there. Needs to be coach up on technique. But he could turn into an elite LT but the "bust" factor is there.

I agree with whomever said Carimi is the most ready to plug and play. Solder & Costanzo will struggle if they are inserted their rookie year with the stout pass rushers they come up against. They are very athletic but tend to get caught waist bending because of their size. In college, you can get away with that from time to time but a guy like James Harrison will smell that stink and eat them up. With some added lower body strentgh, coaching, and learning good hand placement...They will turn into solid LTs.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-10-2011, 10:04 AM
We need a starting CB...No doubt. But the Steelers might not be in a position to get that CB in round 1. There might not even be one in reach. And waiting until your pick and missing on a CB while not being able to find anyone to trade back would leave the Steelers taking BPA. That won't be a CB because it is starting to look like there is 3 1st round CBs in this draft and one of them isn't on the Steelers board.


I pretty much agree with this. I don't think anyone on this board would argue our need for a starting CB (even 2 CB's). The question is will the CB's available at 1.31 represent the best value? And how far is drop in value from those at 2.31? I'm beginning to think the value will be better in the 2nd round.
I think that is the biggest issue. There won't be a CB on the Steelers board that could start if they sit at #31 or one within reach for just a 3rd to move up. Smith won't be an option and Williams & Harris are reaches at that spot.

I think Williams might have a team consider him with the "Texas Time" prodays if he runs in the 4.4s. After hearing his interview yesterday on Sirius about scouts asking him to play S....I am soured on him. He wants to play CB and didn't have the right answers or attitude about the transition if asked. I see him now as early 2nd round along with Harris.

Harris looked very fluid in the position drills at the combine. But is undersized at 5'9". I'm not discounted him because of his height but definately a risk trying to project a 5'9" CB into a starting position.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-10-2011, 10:18 AM
We need a starting CB...No doubt. But the Steelers might not be in a position to get that CB in round 1. There might not even be one in reach. And waiting until your pick and missing on a CB while not being able to find anyone to trade back would leave the Steelers taking BPA. That won't be a CB because it is starting to look like there is 3 1st round CBs in this draft and one of them isn't on the Steelers board.


I pretty much agree with this. I don't think anyone on this board would argue our need for a starting CB (even 2 CB's). The question is will the CB's available at 1.31 represent the best value? And how far is drop in value from those at 2.31? I'm beginning to think the value will be better in the 2nd round.

Steelers have not been able to develop a CB in later rounds except Ike Taylor in Rd 4. Ike Taylor is 31. In a couple of years he is going to lose his biggest asset SPEED. Steelers take 2-3 years to develop a CB. If you don't draft a CB early in this draft Steelers better be ready to sign one in Free Agency,.

Would i be happy to draft Mike Pouncey at 31?? Absolutely. Would i give a 3rd draft choice when FA is not available...Hell No....

I think it all comes to this is there a huge difference between say a guy like Brandon Harris and Burton or between Pouncey and Cannon?

I know one thing for sure Steelers value versatility. Is Mike versatile enough to give up a 3rd Rd player? If Steelers think he can play LG/RG/C at next level they will trade up. If Steelers think he is strictly a RG at next level no way Steelers give a 3rd pick for pure RG.

The Steelers have been equally scorned on high round CBs too. I think it is a bigger setback on being disaapointed with how a 1st round or 2nd round CB turn out...Don't you? The CBs that will be available when the Steelers pick at #31 have a big drop off from Petersen & Prince but the drop off between guys like Williams & Harris is closer to the next tier. Add in the fact on using a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th on them makes the risk less. If you want to get the best value on your #1 you take the guy that grades out where you pick. To get the most value out of your number one, a guy is siting there who grades out at that spot and will help you immediately. This is not a young rebuilding team and there is a window with this core. Two pieces of the puzzle that are missing are CB & OG. Steelers could have a chance of getting one of those pieces for next year and the next decade...It is worth the 3rd round pick. Like I said, if they are so worried about obtaining more picks, a simple trade out of round 2 could net them a 3rd & 4th. The 3nd & 4th rounds are loaded with talent this year. This isn't a front loaded draft.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-10-2011, 10:44 AM
The other point I meant to make is that this is a good draft for Guards. And while Mike is very good, so are alot of players in the 1st round. They may be able to get a top DE and a guard rated only slightly behind Mike.

We'll see. Noone knows what the Steelers will do.
But if the past ten years are an indication, they will not miss.

It's not a great draft for G's but pretty decent. But it is deep at CB & DL especially in the 2-4 rounds. But you are not lookin at the road in front of you... The FO will. The "window" is now...Just like when Troy & Tone were picked. They will do everything in their power not to draft a player in the 1st who will sit for 2 years behind a vet when they have a plug & play guy within reach at one of their biggest needs.That means trading up as first priority or trading back if nobody is there. If those options close, then they will take BPA. If BPA happens...It could be a setback. There is a reason there will be more 30+ players on this team and 2 coordinators operating on 1 year contracts.
Tick...Tick...Tick... :!:


We both know the Steelers don't work that way. If they did, the could just trade that pick and get a developed starting guy from half the league.

Not sure what you meant. Work that way trading back? They will itry if there isn't a player there graded out who could help them. Trading up? Did it with Troy & Tone...And these are very similiar circumstances. I think if there is any realistic chance of a FA signing for a strater it would be CB. They way the draft is grading out and the FA CBs available...They could sign starter opposite Ike and still draft one in the 2nd or 3rd. Guys like Richard Marshall & Eric Wright will be UFA if a new CBA is in place as long as players only need 4 years accrued to get UFA. The are mid level guys with starting experinece who could come reasonable. A guy that could push McFadden and set the bar higher for Lewis & Butler. If the draft pick come in and beats them all out to start...What a good problem to have. Having Ike, Marshall/Wright, McFadden, Lewis, Butler, and Dowling/Burton/Brown would just break my heart. :wink: Now you have a CB group to work with against 3,4, & 5 WRs sets.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-10-2011, 11:00 AM
I'll gamble on the elite LT player everytime over an interior player.

"Gamble" and "Elite" don't go together. Gamble on a prospect who has a high ceiling...Or draft an elite tackle prospect. You won't see an "elite" OT prospect religiously drafting outside the Top 20. But guess what...You could see an "elite" G prospect outside the Top 20. Guess what? This year...It's Mike Pouncey! And he may be within reach. Or you could just sit at #31 and take the 5th or 6th OT propsect or 4th or 5th CB prospect and hopes in 1-2 years he turns into something special because you really could use starter at that position. By that time Ward, Hampton, Smith, Keisel, Farrior, Harrison, Clark, & Polamalu will all need to replaced and we should have some guys ready to fill in because the Steelers will draft inside the Top 20 over the next 3 years. Hey...Make room on that wagon for me! :P

StarSpangledSteeler
03-10-2011, 01:24 PM
By that time Ward, Hampton, Smith, Keisel, Farrior, Harrison, Clark, & Polamalu will all need to replaced and we should have some guys ready to fill in because the Steelers will draft inside the Top 20 over the next 3 years. Hey...Make room on that wagon for me! :P

Just for fun, look at what round those 8 players were drafted in: 3rd, 1st, 4th, 7th, 1st (FA), UDFA, UDFA, 1st. Only two original 1st round picks. It's good to know the Steelers have a history of acquiring excellent players out side of their own first round. And they will have to do so once again when those 8 men go to pasture. Call me crazy but I'm not so worried to see Hampton, Farrior, Keisel, and Clark go. I feel like a younger faster athlete from rounds 1-3 could match their production at any one of those positions. To me the hard ones to replace are Ward, Harrison, and Polamalu.

Another point, when those 8 veterans retire, our team's success will fall squarely on the shoulders of Big Ben. It would be nice to have a dominate OL already in place at that time, both to protect Ben and open holes consistently in the run game. It will take a little pressure of our D as the young bucks learn the game.

hawaiiansteel
03-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers: 2011-2012 Season Predictions and Super Bowl Odds

Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:07 AM ET
By: Bob Harvey | http://www.sbrforum.com


The Pittsburgh Steelers will begin the 2011-12 NFL season as one the heavy favorites to win the AFC championship. How are the Steelers shaping up for next season?

While the Steelers were able to beat the likes of the Patriots and Jets last season, Father Time could prove to be a bigger opponent.

Early on the sportsbooks aren’t concerned with the Steelers getting older. Pittsburgh (+450) is second on the futures board behind the New England Patriots to win the AFC title.

Pittsburgh Steeler fans would like to say their team is like fine wine getting better with age. Pittsburgh’s key offensive players are still in their 20’s with a lot of football ahead. 28-year old Ben Roethlisberger came back strong from a four-game suspension last season and threw for 3,200 yards and 17 touchdowns.

Running back Rashard Mendenhall who rushed for 1,273 yards and 13 touchdowns is 23 while Maurkice Pounce, arguably the Steelers best offensive lineman is just 21. That trio alone should keep the Steelers at the top of most futures boards for the foreseeable future.

Flowing locks

Troy Polamalu is more than just a pretty face with a lot of hair. The reigning NFL defensive player of the year is one of the toughest guys in the league and showed it by playing through injuries including a strained Achilles tendon. He’s only 29, but he plays every down like it’s his last one and the numerous violent collisions could be taking their toll.

Steelers outside linebacker James Harrison is on the mend after having a second back surgery in as many weeks. Harrison underwent another operation Wednesday to repair a herniated disc in his back — a condition with which he played most of the 2010 season and still earned All-Pro honors Harrison is expected to start working out again in early April if all goes well during his recovery.

Harrison, who turns 33 in early May, became the second player in Steelers history to record double-digit sacks in three consecutive years. Last season he recorded 100 tackles, 10.5 sacks, two interceptions and six forced fumbles.

Led by Polamalu and Harrison, the Steelers defense was ranked first in the league in points allowed (14.5), No.1 in rushing yards allowed per game (62.7) and second in total yards (276.7). They got better as the regular season went on allowing only 51 points in their final five games. The Steelers have plenty of depth and experience and should match or maybe better last year’s impressive numbers.

Draft Debate

James Farrior just had a great year, but he turned 36 in January. Casey Hampton turns 34 in September. Successors for those two players will likely be found in the draft. The Steelers have always been one of the savviest teams when it comes to personnel and with glaring needs at cornerback and the offensive line, they figure to be busy again this year.

Pittsburgh is hoping upon hope that Florida guard Mike Pouncey is available at the bottom of the first round. The Steelers could even trade up to get the Gators All-American and put up next to his brother, Maurkice.

Super Bowl 46 will be held at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis on February 25, 2012.

Here’s a look at the current odds:

Arizona +10000
Atlanta +1500
Baltimore +1200
Buffalo +20000
Carolina +30000
Chicago +1800
Cincinnati +6000
Cleveland +6000
Dallas +1800
Denver +6000
Detroit +5000
Green Bay +600
Houston +3500
Indianapolis +1800
Jacksonville +6000
Kansas City +3000
Miami +4000
Minnesota +4000
New England +500
New Orleans +1500
New York Giants +1500
New York Jets +1200
Oakland +5000
Philadelphia +1500
Pittsburgh Steelers +800
San Diego +1200
San Francisco +4000
Seattle +10000
St Louis +6000
Tampa Bay +3000
Tennessee +6000
Washington +6000

http://www.sbrforum.com/nfl-football/fr ... s-a-18797/ (http://www.sbrforum.com/nfl-football/free-picks/pittsburgh-steelers-2011-2012-season-predictions-super-bowl-odds-a-18797/)

Blockhead
03-11-2011, 12:19 PM
I agree with Ruth. None of the OT have "elite" written on them. Pouncey does. The OT could develop into something special but they all have ther flaws. The OT with the highest ceiling is Tyron Smith. Even Smith has to gain some more bulk to play at the next level. He projects better to the LT spot but has limited experience there. Needs to be coach up on technique. But he could turn into an elite LT but the "bust" factor is there.

I agree with whomever said Carimi is the most ready to plug and play. Solder & Costanzo will struggle if they are inserted their rookie year with the stout pass rushers they come up against. They are very athletic but tend to get caught waist bending because of their size. In college, you can get away with that from time to time but a guy like James Harrison will smell that stink and eat them up. With some added lower body strentgh, coaching, and learning good hand placement...They will turn into solid LTs.
What? None have elite ability. Solder and Smith have rare movement skills for their size but need technique and some bulk/strength help. Castanzo is the complete package and has all the ability to be elite. Carimi is, as I said earlier, the most ready but also the lowest ceiling of the one's I just listed.

I'd take any of them over Pouncey. I like Pouncey but he doesn't have their abilities or upside.

MaxAMillion
03-11-2011, 12:29 PM
The Ravens have met with and like Sherrod. I thought that would be the player the Steelers would move up to pick. Moving up for a Guard doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Shawn
03-11-2011, 12:46 PM
Pouncey at 25 would be a steal. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they made that trade. In fact, I'd probably go to the bar and buy everyone a round to celebrate.

Losing a 3rd Round pick to get him at #25 is not a steal. It is overpaying for a Guard.

As much as I like Pouncey, I have to agree.

Shawn
03-11-2011, 12:46 PM
The Ravens have met with and like Sherrod. I thought that would be the player the Steelers would move up to pick. Moving up for a Guard doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

This makes more sense.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-11-2011, 01:03 PM
I agree with Ruth. None of the OT have "elite" written on them. Pouncey does. The OT could develop into something special but they all have ther flaws. The OT with the highest ceiling is Tyron Smith. Even Smith has to gain some more bulk to play at the next level. He projects better to the LT spot but has limited experience there. Needs to be coach up on technique. But he could turn into an elite LT but the "bust" factor is there.

I agree with whomever said Carimi is the most ready to plug and play. Solder & Costanzo will struggle if they are inserted their rookie year with the stout pass rushers they come up against. They are very athletic but tend to get caught waist bending because of their size. In college, you can get away with that from time to time but a guy like James Harrison will smell that stink and eat them up. With some added lower body strentgh, coaching, and learning good hand placement...They will turn into solid LTs.

What? None have elite ability. Solder and Smith have rare movement skills for their size but need technique and some bulk/strength help. Castanzo is the complete package and has all the ability to be elite. Carimi is, as I said earlier, the most ready but also the lowest ceiling of the one's I just listed.

I'd take any of them over Pouncey. I like Pouncey but he doesn't have their abilities or upside.
I didn't say none have elite abilities. Don't put words in my mouth and comprehend what I write. I said none have "elite" written on them. This isn't a cream of the crop class of OT. Rare movement skills doesn't equate to an elite OT. Solder, Smith, Carimi, and Costanzo all move well for their size.

I said Smith has the highest ceiling but needs the most work and projected to LT (Boom or Bust). Carimini is the most ready to plug & play. However, I think Carimi is a plug & play at RT at the next level and Costanzo right now will do better at LT. Solder and Castanzo are not complete packages. They need work and whenever you bring in 6"7" or better waist benders...It is a gamble to get them to refine their technique. When they also need to get stronger in the upper or lower body with a tendacy to waist bend...It could take some work. Like I said, the could develop into something special. Did I say if all the OTs were on the board & Pouncey I would still take Pouncey? No. But the Steelers also don't have a shot at most of these guys. If Carimi or Solder fall within reach I would consider them as well. Pouncey is the most ready to play and the surest prospect on the OL. His position has something to do with it, thats a given. But that doesn't make him the 1st OL off the board because OT are harder to find. Pouncey could not play their position as well as any of them but if you stick all of them at G...None will be as good as Pouncey.

Oviedo
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
The Ravens have met with and like Sherrod. I thought that would be the player the Steelers would move up to pick. Moving up for a Guard doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

This makes more sense.

I believe they are having issues with their OT Gaither. They may consider OT a more pressing need.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-11-2011, 01:28 PM
The Ravens have met with and like Sherrod. I thought that would be the player the Steelers would move up to pick. Moving up for a Guard doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

This makes more sense.

I believe they are having issues with their OT Gaither. They may consider OT a more pressing need.

Could add some reasoning behind why the Steelers want to move up ahead of the Ravens. Maybe that is the Steelers target. The did well without Gaither last year. Even if Gaither isn't in the plans, I would thing CB would be their biggest need. Good possibilty none will be there unless everyone passes on Smith. I would think their next biggest need would be Birks replacement. That is where I think Pouncey comes in. If they are moving on without Gaither, I could see where then C & OT could be on an even level of need. Man...Like we need any more drama involving the Steelers & Ravens.

RuthlessBurgher
03-11-2011, 04:40 PM
The Ravens also need a deep threat a WR since Boldin, Mason, and Housh are all slow as molasses. Local kid Torrey Smith from Maryland ran a 4.37 at the combine.

Blockhead
03-11-2011, 04:48 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2yjy5i70]I agree with Ruth. None of the OT have "elite" written on them. Pouncey does. The OT could develop into something special but they all have ther flaws. The OT with the highest ceiling is Tyron Smith. Even Smith has to gain some more bulk to play at the next level. He projects better to the LT spot but has limited experience there. Needs to be coach up on technique. But he could turn into an elite LT but the "bust" factor is there.

I agree with whomever said Carimi is the most ready to plug and play. Solder & Costanzo will struggle if they are inserted their rookie year with the stout pass rushers they come up against. They are very athletic but tend to get caught waist bending because of their size. In college, you can get away with that from time to time but a guy like James Harrison will smell that stink and eat them up. With some added lower body strentgh, coaching, and learning good hand placement...They will turn into solid LTs.

What? None have elite ability. Solder and Smith have rare movement skills for their size but need technique and some bulk/strength help. Castanzo is the complete package and has all the ability to be elite. Carimi is, as I said earlier, the most ready but also the lowest ceiling of the one's I just listed.

I'd take any of them over Pouncey. I like Pouncey but he doesn't have their abilities or upside.
I didn't say none have elite abilities. Don't put words in my mouth and comprehend what I write. I said none have "elite" written on them. This isn't a cream of the crop class of OT. Rare movement skills doesn't equate to an elite OT. Solder, Smith, Carimi, and Costanzo all move well for their size.

I said Smith has the highest ceiling but needs the most work and projected to LT (Boom or Bust). Carimini is the most ready to plug & play. However, I think Carimi is a plug & play at RT at the next level and Costanzo right now will do better at LT. Solder and Castanzo are not complete packages. They need work and whenever you bring in 6"7" or better waist benders...It is a gamble to get them to refine their technique. When they also need to get stronger in the upper or lower body with a tendacy to waist bend...It could take some work. Like I said, the could develop into something special. Did I say if all the OTs were on the board & Pouncey I would still take Pouncey? No. But the Steelers also don't have a shot at most of these guys. If Carimi or Solder fall within reach I would consider them as well. Pouncey is the most ready to play and the surest prospect on the OL. His position has something to do with it, thats a given. But that doesn't make him the 1st OL off the board because OT are harder to find. Pouncey could not play their position as well as any of them but if you stick all of them at G...None will be as good as Pouncey.[/quote:2yjy5i70]
There are 4-5 OT's in this draft that could end up being high quality LT's in the league.

I would say this is EASILY an elite offensive tackle draft.

NJ-STEELER
03-11-2011, 05:05 PM
i saw a recent 1st rd mock with prince going at #23 9to the eagles IIRC)

how how much would we have to trade to get to #22?

RuthlessBurgher
03-11-2011, 05:15 PM
i saw a recent 1st rd mock with prince going at #23 9to the eagles IIRC)

how how much would we have to trade to get to #22?

I'd be surprised if Amukamara gets past Dallas at #9.

NJ-STEELER
03-11-2011, 05:38 PM
i saw a recent 1st rd mock with prince going at #23 9to the eagles IIRC)

how how much would we have to trade to get to #22?

I'd be surprised if Amukamara gets past Dallas at #9.

its jerry. dont be surprised they picked the highest ranked razor back, LOL.


did they release newman? if they draft prince, that would give them 3 #1 at conerback. 2 drafted in the top 10

RuthlessBurgher
03-12-2011, 08:06 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":196x5z28]i saw a recent 1st rd mock with prince going at #23 9to the eagles IIRC)

how how much would we have to trade to get to #22?

I'd be surprised if Amukamara gets past Dallas at #9.

its jerry. dont be surprised they picked the highest ranked razor back, LOL.


did they release newman? if they draft prince, that would give them 3 #1 at conerback. 2 drafted in the top 10[/quote:196x5z28]

Their pass defense still sucked last year. They were 26th in overall passing yardage, 29th in yards allowed per pass attempt, and tied for dead last in the league for TD passes surrendered through the air.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-14-2011, 10:11 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":1csfzzg3]I agree with Ruth. None of the OT have "elite" written on them. Pouncey does. The OT could develop into something special but they all have ther flaws. The OT with the highest ceiling is Tyron Smith. Even Smith has to gain some more bulk to play at the next level. He projects better to the LT spot but has limited experience there. Needs to be coach up on technique. But he could turn into an elite LT but the "bust" factor is there.

I agree with whomever said Carimi is the most ready to plug and play. Solder & Costanzo will struggle if they are inserted their rookie year with the stout pass rushers they come up against. They are very athletic but tend to get caught waist bending because of their size. In college, you can get away with that from time to time but a guy like James Harrison will smell that stink and eat them up. With some added lower body strentgh, coaching, and learning good hand placement...They will turn into solid LTs.

What? None have elite ability. Solder and Smith have rare movement skills for their size but need technique and some bulk/strength help. Castanzo is the complete package and has all the ability to be elite. Carimi is, as I said earlier, the most ready but also the lowest ceiling of the one's I just listed.

I'd take any of them over Pouncey. I like Pouncey but he doesn't have their abilities or upside.
I didn't say none have elite abilities. Don't put words in my mouth and comprehend what I write. I said none have "elite" written on them. This isn't a cream of the crop class of OT. Rare movement skills doesn't equate to an elite OT. Solder, Smith, Carimi, and Costanzo all move well for their size.

I said Smith has the highest ceiling but needs the most work and projected to LT (Boom or Bust). Carimini is the most ready to plug & play. However, I think Carimi is a plug & play at RT at the next level and Costanzo right now will do better at LT. Solder and Castanzo are not complete packages. They need work and whenever you bring in 6"7" or better waist benders...It is a gamble to get them to refine their technique. When they also need to get stronger in the upper or lower body with a tendacy to waist bend...It could take some work. Like I said, the could develop into something special. Did I say if all the OTs were on the board & Pouncey I would still take Pouncey? No. But the Steelers also don't have a shot at most of these guys. If Carimi or Solder fall within reach I would consider them as well. Pouncey is the most ready to play and the surest prospect on the OL. His position has something to do with it, thats a given. But that doesn't make him the 1st OL off the board because OT are harder to find. Pouncey could not play their position as well as any of them but if you stick all of them at G...None will be as good as Pouncey.
There are 4-5 OT's in this draft that could end up being high quality LT's in the league.

I would say this is EASILY an elite offensive tackle draft.[/quote:1csfzzg3]

There is not one elite OT prospect in this draft. Not my opinion. Watch and listen. Talked about all the time. Doesn't mean there are not any good prospects would could develop into something. Some very athletic big men that are rated very high. All if them have technique and/or strength issues and being that 3 of the 4 highest rated OT are 6'7" or taller...There is a concern. Carimi could be the lowest risk guy because he looks like at min would be a solid RT. You see the elite prospects picked in the Top 10 like Joe Thomas, Jake Longs, Ryan Cladys....I don't think we will see a top 10 OT because of all this. The guy who has possible "elite" tools down the line has the highest ceiling in Tyron Smith. However, he still is a little undersized and doesn't have the experience at LT in college to warrant taking him that high. A more "Boom or Bust" pick because if he can't play on the left...He may not have a position to play. We will see. If any of the teams feel there is an elite prospect in this group he will come off the board in the top 10.

Oviedo
03-14-2011, 10:20 AM
You aren't going to get a Joe Thomas type LT in this draft. You may get another Max Starks which is OK but not a Pro Bowler. The reality is unless you draft in the Top 10 it is unlikely you get one of those Joe Thomas type OTs.

This draft has a number of good RT candidates but do you want to use the Round 1 pick on a RT? Especially when there are some who you can get Round 2 thru 5.

IMO the whole Adams and Colon dynamic will play a big part in the decision of what they do. But if you look at Best Player Available at #31 that is probably not going to be a RT. Especially with the potential of Kyle Rudolph (TE), Jon Baldwin (WR), several CBs and DL all being at #31. They all will better meet the BPA criteria more than any of the likely OTs.

IMO if they don't get Pouncey II then we aren't going OL in Round 1.

hawaiiansteel
03-21-2011, 02:30 PM
View From The Press Box

The Pouncey question

March 21st, 2011


NEW ORLEANS -- Should the Steelers seriously consider trading up in the first round to take Mike Pouncey?

It is a pretty safe assumption that Pouncey will be gone before the Steelers’ first pick in the NFL draft, No. 31 overall.

Part of that is due to the success his twin brother, Maurkice, had last season with the Steelers. Pouncey made a seamless transition from college to the NFL, becoming the Steelers’ first rookie offensive linemen to make the Pro Bowl since the 1950s.

Mike Pouncey has said he wants to play center in the NFL, like his brother, but he may be just as suited to play guard. And his stellar career at Florida isn’t the only indicator that he should thrive at the next level as well.

When asked if Mike Pouncey is a clone of Maurkice Pouncey, the No. 18 overall pick in 2010, Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said, “Identical twin.”

On the field too? “Identical twin,” Colbert said.

Wow. That is heady praise.

And that observation alone should make the Steelers think long and hard about trying to re-unite the Pouncey brothers in Pittsburgh.

They have a need at guard, and if Mike Pouncey is anything close to his brother as a player, the Steelers will take another big step in shoring up their offensive line.

Cost, of course, will be a factor if the Steelers decide to trade up in the first round -- something they did in 2003 to take Troy Polamalu and then in 2006 to snag Santonio Holmes.

The Steelers have seven picks in the draft, which will be held April 28-30, and they aren’t expected to receiving any compensatory selections (those will be awarded Monday or Tuesday at the NFL owners meetings).

Colbert plays his draft hand as close to the vest as possible. But he indicated that only having seven draft picks won’t dissuade the Steelers from trading some of them if they want to move up in the first round.

“You go into every draft anticipating you’re going to have seven picks,” Colbert said. “You may come out of it with four (picks), you may come out of it with 10 again by trading down or trading up.”

http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the- ... -question/ (http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2011/03/21/the-pouncey-question/)

Oviedo
03-21-2011, 02:43 PM
View From The Press Box

The Pouncey question

March 21st, 2011


NEW ORLEANS -- Should the Steelers seriously consider trading up in the first round to take Mike Pouncey?

It is a pretty safe assumption that Pouncey will be gone before the Steelers’ first pick in the NFL draft, No. 31 overall.

Part of that is due to the success his twin brother, Maurkice, had last season with the Steelers. Pouncey made a seamless transition from college to the NFL, becoming the Steelers’ first rookie offensive linemen to make the Pro Bowl since the 1950s.

Mike Pouncey has said he wants to play center in the NFL, like his brother, but he may be just as suited to play guard. And his stellar career at Florida isn’t the only indicator that he should thrive at the next level as well.

When asked if Mike Pouncey is a clone of Maurkice Pouncey, the No. 18 overall pick in 2010, Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert said, “Identical twin.”

On the field too? “Identical twin,” Colbert said.

Wow. That is heady praise.

And that observation alone should make the Steelers think long and hard about trying to re-unite the Pouncey brothers in Pittsburgh.

They have a need at guard, and if Mike Pouncey is anything close to his brother as a player, the Steelers will take another big step in shoring up their offensive line.

Cost, of course, will be a factor if the Steelers decide to trade up in the first round -- something they did in 2003 to take Troy Polamalu and then in 2006 to snag Santonio Holmes.

The Steelers have seven picks in the draft, which will be held April 28-30, and they aren’t expected to receiving any compensatory selections (those will be awarded Monday or Tuesday at the NFL owners meetings).

Colbert plays his draft hand as close to the vest as possible. But he indicated that only having seven draft picks won’t dissuade the Steelers from trading some of them if they want to move up in the first round.

“You go into every draft anticipating you’re going to have seven picks,” Colbert said. “You may come out of it with four (picks), you may come out of it with 10 again by trading down or trading up.”

http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the- ... -question/ (http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2011/03/21/the-pouncey-question/)

I prefer your Mock and trade down, not up, and get more picks. We can get a good Guard in Round 2 or 3.

To me it sounds like Colbert is trying to convince someone to take Pouncey II so maybe an OT falls to him.

RuthlessBurgher
03-21-2011, 04:10 PM
Another reason why attempting to re-unite the Pouncey twins may be a solid football decision (even if we have to pay a hefty price to trade up to get him):

Once the draft is held, teams can have no contract with the players that they have drafted until this CBA is taken care of. No rookie mini-camps. No OTA's. No opportunity for a rookie to start learning the playbook before they take the field at training camp (which may or may not even occur this year at all if there is an extended lockout).

Rookies will be completely in the dark...if you thought it was difficult for a rookie to get playing time in a LeBeau defense under normal circumstances, it would appear to be virtually impossible for said rookie to make an impact in this particular situation.

Unless, of course, that rookie had a twin brother who would live with the rookie #1 pick during this offseason, teaching him our system, going over plays together, working out together...everything. If Mike Pouncey was drafted by the team that already employed his twin brother, he would have a leg up on every other rookie in the NFL, because he would have a live-in tutor to guide him through the darkness of not having contact with his team following the draft. That would be HUGE.