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SS Laser
02-27-2011, 12:25 AM
Crash says this all the time:

FACT: He wanted Rivers.

FACT: He didn't want Ben.

FACT: Of the Big 3 of the 2004 draft, only Bill Cowher's boy, is the one who is ringless.

Colbert has said this year at the super bowl or right after that is was Cowher that convinced them to pick Ben for the good of the Steelers. Oh wait here it is:

' Choosing Ben Roethlisberger with the 11th pick of the 2004 draft. Normally, I'd make the franchise quarterback a GM's best decision -- especially with Big Ben on the verge of winning his third Super Bowl -- but Colbert credits former coach Bill Cowher for selling everyone on the Miami (of Ohio) quarterback, saying the move had to be made "for the good of the organization." He was right. Roethlisberger is one of the top quarterbacks in the game and a virtual certainty to make the Hall of Fame."


I think Crash you can stop with the Cowher wanted river now please. Tried of reading that argument.

hawaiiansteel
02-27-2011, 12:32 AM
Ben & Bill have always loved each other... :tt2

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0901/steelers.superbowl.highlights/images/Roethlisberger-cowher.jpg

birtikidis
02-27-2011, 12:46 AM
Just cause he never kissed him, doesn't mean he doesn't love him.

Crash
02-27-2011, 02:29 AM
This just confirms what everyone already knows.......

Imagine what might have occurred in the past decade had the Steelers drafted offensive lineman Shawn Andrews in the first round in 2004 instead of Ben Roethlisberger.

That was their intention, until Dan Rooney stepped in.

Rooney, in his 2007 autobiography, wrote that as the countdown to the 11th pick of the '04 draft continued "our people seemed to have focused on Shawn Andrews, a big offensive tackle from Arkansas as our likely number-one pick.

"But when our turn came, I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we had passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10038/1033856-66.stm
______________________________

You think Colbert's going to admit on the Super Bowl stage that Dan Rooney pulled rank and got Ben to Pittsburgh?

Of course not.

But people who cover this team know what really happened.

Flasteel
02-27-2011, 12:21 PM
This just confirms what everyone already knows.......

Imagine what might have occurred in the past decade had the Steelers drafted offensive lineman Shawn Andrews in the first round in 2004 instead of Ben Roethlisberger.

That was their intention, until Dan Rooney stepped in.

Rooney, in his 2007 autobiography, wrote that as the countdown to the 11th pick of the '04 draft continued "our people seemed to have focused on Shawn Andrews, a big offensive tackle from Arkansas as our likely number-one pick.

"But when our turn came, I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we had passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10038/1033856-66.stm
______________________________

You think Colbert's going to admit on the Super Bowl stage that Dan Rooney pulled rank and got Ben to Pittsburgh?

Of course not.

But people who cover this team know what really happened.

Your vitriol towards Cowher has just been proven to be unfounded (at least on this matter). You can spin it any way you want, but it appears Cowher was not the one chasing down Andrews and is in fact, the primary reason Ben is a Steeler.

Both Rooney's account and Colbert's statement can be (and probably are) accurate. The front office personnel are most likely the "our people" Rooney refers to and by "steering" the conversation, he may have simply mentioned a belief that Cowher also shared. Rooney didn't say he persuaded his people to choose Ben, so it's obvious that someone with influence picked up the torch at that point. Colbert says that person was Bill Cowher.

It's easy to see how you might form the opinion you did, based on the partial information you had. But like most situations, you don't know what the truth is, unless you were actually there - or have a complete account. Many of your opinions concerning Cowher, Ward, Batch, or Wexell (just to name a few off the top of my head) are based on this same flimsy evidence, yet you state them rabidly as fact.

Maybe you should just admit that you have been wrong all along about this and use the experience as a lesson to slow your roll. :Cheers

Crash
02-27-2011, 12:44 PM
Your vitriol towards Cowher has just been proven to be unfounded (at least on this matter).

So you are calling Dan Rooney a liar? He said the same thing in a 2007 book that *I* was saying in 2004!

Btw, here's Wexell in a 2009 bit from another board:

Let’s use late April, 2004 as the beginning of this philosophical shift. During the draft process that year, Russ Grimm fell in love with massive guard-tackle Shawn Andrews, and Cowher came to agree with his line coach. Word leaked late in the week that Andrews was the Steelers’ draft target with the 11th pick, but on draft day team president Dan Rooney walked into the war room to speak to Cowher and Director of Football Operations Kevin Colbert.

Rooney told them that he wasn’t going to meddle and tell them whom to draft. He just told them that he’d once passed on a franchise quarterback (Dan Marino) and it was one of the most difficult football decisions with which he ever had to live. Whether Rooney had a direct impact or not, the Steelers that day drafted quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the first round. In the third round they drafted another massive tackle, Max Starks.
______________________

Like I said, Rooney pulled rank. He got his point across in his typical fashion, and then he got his way. Cowher may have said that quote, but he didn't say it until AFTER Rooney got his point across to him/them. If Dan Rooney doesn't walk into the war room before we pick Ben Roethlisberger is a Buffalo Bill, and that's the problem. Any person who would rate a fat, out of shape offensive tackle over a franchise QB who some were comparing to John Elway? Has no business making draft day decisions.

Go find Cowher's draft interview on ESPN after we picked. He didn't look happy at all. He looked like a guy who didn't get his way.

Thank God for Dan Rooney.

Crash
02-27-2011, 12:44 PM
double post.

Crash
02-27-2011, 12:51 PM
Many of your opinions concerning Cowher, Ward, Batch, or Wexell (just to name a few off the top of my head) are based on this same flimsy evidence, yet you state them rabidly as fact.

Ward? What flimsy evidence? His quotes, his holdout, his divorce, and his buisiness partnership with a convicted drug dealer are fact.

Batch? He was accused of participating in a gang rape in Las Vegas with other NFL players. They were investigated for one month by Nevada police, were not charged and were later sued by their accuser. The accuser was later paid money by someone in his party.

All facts, all documented facts.

Wexell has had members of his pay site suspended from posting on the pay board AFTER they were charged money. That makes him a thief.

YOU Fla, have stated you saw Peyton getting a hummer behind a bar. Prove it. All we have to go on is YOUR "flimsy evidence", no?

SteelCrazy
02-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Just because Cowher suggested they needed Ben doesnt mean he didnt want Rivers 1st........Rivers was gone, so they had to take the last of the elite.

PSU_dropout43
02-27-2011, 01:10 PM
Just because Cowher suggested they needed Ben doesnt mean he didnt want Rivers 1st........Rivers was gone, so they had to take the last of the elite.
Did Rivers visit the Steelers in 2004?

Back then, all potential 1st round picks visited the Steelers.
2004 visits:
Dunta Robinson
DeAngelo Hall
Shawn Andrews
Big Ben

Crash
02-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Cowher and the Steelers are hoping that North Carolina State's Philip Rivers falls to them at the 11th slot in the first round. Meanwhile, the Chargers -- rebuffed by Mississippi quarterback Eli Manning -- see little difference between the two players and may trade down from the first overall pick with the New York Giants at No. 4 and take Rivers.

If the Chargers are successful, that would leave Steelers officials disappointed.

Nonetheless, they are more than willing to continue to play Tommy Maddox at quarterback. Cowher repeatedly has said that the team's woes a year ago can't be exclusively pinned on Maddox.

Meanwhile, the Giants may deal with the Oakland Raiders at No. 2. The Giants would take Manning while the Raiders' target is Texas wide receiver Roy Williams. That would leave Rivers to slide to the Steelers, who prefer Rivers over Miami (Ohio) quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 90879.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_190879.html)

Crash
02-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Rivers didn't have to visit. Cowher went to NC and talked to Rivers himself at his Pro Day.

Cowher however, couldn't be bothered to go to Ohio to see Ben's workout and they sent Mark Whipple instead.

Kellen Winslow also visited the Steelers. EVERYONE knew there was no way in hell he was going to be our pick.

SteelCrazy
02-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Just because Cowher suggested they needed Ben doesnt mean he didnt want Rivers 1st........Rivers was gone, so they had to take the last of the elite.
Did Rivers visit the Steelers in 2004?

Back then, all potential 1st round picks visited the Steelers.
2004 visits:
Dunta Robinson
DeAngelo Hall
Shawn Andrews
Big Ben

I really dont know or care.....was just pointing something out that seemed to make sense

Flasteel
02-27-2011, 01:28 PM
Many of your opinions concerning Cowher, Ward, Batch, or Wexell (just to name a few off the top of my head) are based on this same flimsy evidence, yet you state them rabidly as fact.

Ward? What flimsy evidence? His quotes, his holdout, his divorce, and his buisiness partnership with a convicted drug dealer are fact.

Batch? He was accused of participating in a gang rape in Las Vegas with other NFL players. His accuser was also paid money by someone in his party.

All facts, all documented facts.

Wexell has had members of his pay site suspended from posting on the pay board AFTER they were charged money. That makes him a thief.

YOU Fla, have stated you saw Peyton getting a hummer behind a bar. Prove it. All we have to go on is YOUR "flimsy evidence", no?

This is exactly my point. You weren't there in any of those situations and I guarantee you don't know all or even most of the facts.

Who cares if Ward is divorced or held out once. Maybe his wife was a friggin' lunatic or was cheating on him. Maybe his business partner's illegal activities were unknown to Ward, or it was something from the dude's past? Enough evidence exists that Ward and Ben are tight and have a deep mutual respect for each other. Yet you constantly take things out of context or are offended by anyone taking the slightest swipe at your hero - and paint them the enemy.

Does Charlie Batch seem like someone who would participate in a gang rape? Any number of facts that you are not aware of could be at play, which would render this accusation laughable. You have no idea what took place, nor do you know if anyone was paid-off. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it seems highly unlikely. You on the other hand are willing to call the man a rapist, based on a single accusation involving countless facts you are obviously unaware of.

How do you feel about similar comments that are made about Ben? That's what I thought.

As far as Manning, this again proves my point. I was there. I saw the whole thing go down with my own 2 eyes...sorry I didn't take a picture. It wasn't like I saw a UFO or some shadowy figure which could have been Big Foot. Maybe they were simply comparing tattoos and the girl was on her knees to get a closer look at the horseshoe he's got inked on his junk. Who knows? Maybe there is a chance that I didn't see what I thought I saw.

You can either believe me or not, but that's up to you. I'd like to think I've established myself on here as someone who isn't a crackpot or goes around making outlandish claims.
If you want corraborating evidence, you'll have to find someone who worked for the Sarasota PD in 2004-2005.

Crash
02-27-2011, 01:47 PM
Fla,

You said flimsy evidence. How can it be flimsy when it's documented fact?

Flimsy evidence is your Manning story. Flimsy evidence is the alleged Dan Marino coke rumors.


Does Charlie Batch seem like someone who would participate in a gang rape?

Don't know, I wasn't there. But if they did nothing wrong why pay her? Someone in that group did. I never called Batch a rapist. All I ever said son is that if people are going to bash Ben based on accusations, then hold Hometown Hero Charlie Batch to the same standards.

Why would Hines Ward, who makes MILLIONS of dollars a season, need a convicted drug dealer as a "middle-man" to purchase two cars for two of Ward's "friends" when all Ward has to do is write a check on the spot? You don't find that to be just a tad unusual?


Enough evidence exists that Ward and Ben are tight and have a deep mutual respect for each other.

They have a working relationship. They aren't tight at all.

You're hilarious, Hines Ward publicly states that Ben's suspension was "justified" and somehow you think they are tight.

Blockhead
02-27-2011, 02:08 PM
Fla,

You said flimsy evidence. How can it be flimsy when it's documented fact?

Flimsy evidence is your Manning story. Flimsy evidence is the alleged Dan Marino coke rumors.

[quote]Does Charlie Batch seem like someone who would participate in a gang rape?

Don't know, I wasn't there. But if they did nothing wrong why pay her? Someone in that group did. I never called Batch a rapist. All I ever said son is that if people are going to bash Ben based on accusations, then hold Hometown Hero Charlie Batch to the same standards.

Why would Hines Ward, who makes MILLIONS of dollars a season, need a convicted drug dealer as a "middle-man" to purchase two cars for two of Ward's "friends" when all Ward has to do is write a check on the spot? You don't find that to be just a tad unusual?


Enough evidence exists that Ward and Ben are tight and have a deep mutual respect for each other.

They have a working relationship. They aren't tight at all.

You're hilarious, Hines Ward publicly states that Ben's suspension was "justified" and somehow you think they are tight.[/quote:2lwhpz2x]
Ben himself said he needed to change and be a better person and a better teammate. Was he lying about himself?

Blockhead
02-27-2011, 02:10 PM
It doesn't matter how much evidence or facts you present to show Crash is wrong. His mind gets stuck and he is incapable of logical thinking. Once he determines an opinion on a player, like he did Hines and Essex on draftday, it will never change. He hates Cowher and his new punching bag blowhard act seems to be the tight ends.

His mind does not work. It's a broken record.

Crash
02-27-2011, 02:21 PM
It doesn't matter how much evidence or facts you present to show Crash is wrong. His mind gets stuck and he is incapable of logical thinking. Once he determines an opinion on a player, like he did Hines and Essex on draftday, it will never change. He hates Cowher and his new punching bag blowhard act seems to be the tight ends.

His mind does not work. It's a broken record.

Hi 43.

New alias huh?

Comical, the druggie telling someone else their mind doesn't work!

:Blah

Blockhead
02-27-2011, 02:29 PM
Hi 43.

New alias huh?

Comical, the druggie telling someone else their mind doesn't work!

:Blah

What? Namecalling. That's not nice.

Crash
02-27-2011, 02:31 PM
Hi 43.

New alias huh?

Comical, the druggie telling someone else their mind doesn't work!

:Blah

What? Namecalling. That's not nice.

Whatever 43, you just blew your cover.

Bye now.

feltdizz
02-27-2011, 02:46 PM
Fla,

You said flimsy evidence. How can it be flimsy when it's documented fact?

Flimsy evidence is your Manning story. Flimsy evidence is the alleged Dan Marino coke rumors.

[quote]Does Charlie Batch seem like someone who would participate in a gang rape?

Don't know, I wasn't there. But if they did nothing wrong why pay her? Someone in that group did. I never called Batch a rapist. All I ever said son is that if people are going to bash Ben based on accusations, then hold Hometown Hero Charlie Batch to the same standards.

Why would Hines Ward, who makes MILLIONS of dollars a season, need a convicted drug dealer as a "middle-man" to purchase two cars for two of Ward's "friends" when all Ward has to do is write a check on the spot? You don't find that to be just a tad unusual?


Enough evidence exists that Ward and Ben are tight and have a deep mutual respect for each other.

They have a working relationship. They aren't tight at all.

You're hilarious, Hines Ward publicly states that Ben's suspension was "justified" and somehow you think they are tight.[/quote:bpajdxnz]

You gonna believe me or your lying eyes? :lol:

BA has been fired a few times and Grimm was our head coach according to the local media in Pittsburgh. How can you decipher what is true and what is a lie?

I wouldn't take too much stock in the local media when it comes to what they know about the FO.

Sounds to me like you truly believe you are the only Steeler fan who has credible information and everyone else is lost in the forest.

Flasteel
02-27-2011, 02:50 PM
Fla,

You said flimsy evidence. How can it be flimsy when it's documented fact?

Flimsy evidence is your Manning story. Flimsy evidence is the alleged Dan Marino coke rumors.

[quote]Does Charlie Batch seem like someone who would participate in a gang rape?

Don't know, I wasn't there. But if they did nothing wrong why pay her? Someone in that group did. I never called Batch a rapist. All I ever said son is that if people are going to bash Ben based on accusations, then hold Hometown Hero Charlie Batch to the same standards.

Why would Hines Ward, who makes MILLIONS of dollars a season, need a convicted drug dealer as a "middle-man" to purchase two cars for two of Ward's "friends" when all Ward has to do is write a check on the spot? You don't find that to be just a tad unusual?


Enough evidence exists that Ward and Ben are tight and have a deep mutual respect for each other.

They have a working relationship. They aren't tight at all.

You're hilarious, Hines Ward publicly states that Ben's suspension was "justified" and somehow you think they are tight.[/quote:2tiwldke]

http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Fathead/Memorabilia_Wide_White_Background_Template?layer=c omp&wid=640&hei=640&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95,1&op_sharpen=1&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.2,0,0&iccEmbed=0&$product_template=is%7BFathead/FRT-16PHROE760?scl=1%26$layer_1_src%3Dis%7BFathead/shim%3Fscl%3D1%7D%7D

http://lastangryfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/steelers.jpg


http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81849928.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548B65569B1323A1219 0A05B9801D5B052F945A930AFA459EA9

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/84582071.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5489DE773F6401880FA 91B1F05F558EC3A3BBD9C888523D2019E30A760B0D811297


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3812737541_94ebe4c5a3.jpg


I think they enjoy more than simply a working relationship Crash. Who are you to definitively state what their relationship is? How could you possibly be this presumptuous?

Ward is the one who wanted Ben to lead them on the field for his first game back against Cleveland.

Ben is the one who called Ward to check on him after his concussion against New England.

Just this past week, they took the lead together to announce offseason workout plans in the event of a lock out.

I'm not saying they are best friends and I certainly recognize some of the harsh comments Ward has made. As a matter of fact, Ward clearly crossed the line in regards to the concussion comments he made to NBC. He apologized to Ben for it and admitted he was wrong. Ward is an emotional guy who speaks his mind, but only people like you try to twist them to fit your own myopic and biased views.

I'm not going to get into some pissing match over this because I know that you aren't going to change your mind regardless. You love Ben and anybody who remotely threatens him is fair game in your mind. You don't know anything about these people other than the snippets you read, yet you somehow understand their relationships and feelings. That's precisely what stalkers think.

Watch who you're calling "son" by the way. Until that last stalker comment I never disrespected you or hurled insults in your direction. The only way my account of the Peyton Manning story is "flimsy", is if you are calling me a liar. I can assure you that I am not. Keep it clean and don't even try to go all internet tough guy on me.

Crash
02-27-2011, 02:51 PM
So Hines Ward didn't say Ben's suspension was justified?

Don't blame me for listing facts people. Blame Ward for his yap and his partnering up with a drug dealer.

NJ-STEELER
02-27-2011, 03:12 PM
Fla,

You said flimsy evidence. How can it be flimsy when it's documented fact?

Flimsy evidence is your Manning story. Flimsy evidence is the alleged Dan Marino coke rumors.

[quote]Does Charlie Batch seem like someone who would participate in a gang rape?

Don't know, I wasn't there. But if they did nothing wrong why pay her? Someone in that group did. I never called Batch a rapist. All I ever said son is that if people are going to bash Ben based on accusations, then hold Hometown Hero Charlie Batch to the same standards.

Why would Hines Ward, who makes MILLIONS of dollars a season, need a convicted drug dealer as a "middle-man" to purchase two cars for two of Ward's "friends" when all Ward has to do is write a check on the spot? You don't find that to be just a tad unusual?


Enough evidence exists that Ward and Ben are tight and have a deep mutual respect for each other.

They have a working relationship. They aren't tight at all.

You're hilarious, Hines Ward publicly states that Ben's suspension was "justified" and somehow you think they are tight.

http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Fathead/Memorabilia_Wide_White_Background_Template?layer=c omp&wid=640&hei=640&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95,1&op_sharpen=1&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.2,0,0&iccEmbed=0&$product_template=is%7BFathead/FRT-16PHROE760?scl=1%26$layer_1_src%3Dis%7BFathead/shim%3Fscl%3D1%7D%7D

http://lastangryfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/steelers.jpg


http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81849928.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548B65569B1323A1219 0A05B9801D5B052F945A930AFA459EA9

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/84582071.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5489DE773F6401880FA 91B1F05F558EC3A3BBD9C888523D2019E30A760B0D811297


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3812737541_94ebe4c5a3.jpg


I think they enjoy more than simply a working relationship Crash. Who are you to definitively state what their relationship is? How could you possibly be this presumptuous?

Ward is the one who wanted Ben to lead them on the field for his first game back against Cleveland.

Ben is the one who called Ward to check on him after his concussion against New England.

Just this past week, they took the lead together to announce offseason workout plans in the event of a lock out.

I'm not saying they are best friends and I certainly recognize some of the harsh comments Ward has made. As a matter of fact, Ward clearly crossed the line in regards to the concussion comments he made to NBC. He apologized to Ben for it and admitted he was wrong. Ward is an emotional guy who speaks his mind, but only people like you try to twist them to fit your own myopic and biased views.

I'm not going to get into some pissing match over this because I know that you aren't going to change your mind regardless. You love Ben and anybody who remotely threatens him is fair game in your mind. You don't know anything about these people other than the snippets you read, yet you somehow understand their relationships and feelings. That's precisely what stalkers think.

Watch who you're calling "son" by the way. Until that last stalker comment I never disrespected you or hurled insults in your direction. The only way my account of the Peyton Manning story is "flimsy", is if you are calling me a liar. I can assure you that I am not. Keep it clean and don't even try to go all internet tough guy on me.[/quote:335ppibm]

i thought there was a definite change this year. once camp began i would guess tomlin or rooney spoke to the whole group and said you better have your teammates back.

we saw everyone giving props to their teammates. think the FO and coaches had enough of the crap after what hines said about ben and his concussion last year

feltdizz
02-27-2011, 04:42 PM
....or maybe there haven't been any incidents to give opinions on since camp? :stirpot

People act like Hines just calls up reporters when the water is calm... he usually gives an opinion when sh!t hits the fan.

The big WR, Ben missing the Ravens game, the SA accusations etc.

It's not like Hines just goes in on Ben when there is a non story.

NJ-STEELER
02-27-2011, 06:38 PM
why would there be a story if your Qb suffers a concussion?


there haven't been incidentsthis year?? broken nose, broken foot. did you see any interviews with hines this year?? they were a total 180 from what he said last year before that ravens game.

this year "ben is a warrior, and he plays thru injuries like this all the time and thats why he's great"

Crash
02-27-2011, 08:25 PM
....or maybe there haven't been any incidents to give opinions on since camp? :stirpot

People act like Hines just calls up reporters when the water is calm... he usually gives an opinion when sh!t hits the fan.

The big WR, Ben missing the Ravens game, the SA accusations etc.

It's not like Hines just goes in on Ben when there is a non story.

So Ben's not allowed to miss a game with a concussion but Hines is allowed to miss the majority of an AFC TITLE GAME AGAINST THE SAME TEAM with a sore knee?

Ward gives the Steelers media what they want, that's why most of the guys on the regular beat don't call him out. But media who don't rely on Hines Ward for their jobs pretty much laugh at him for how he acts.

See what's going on with Sidney Crosby? Never had a concussion in his life. Got his bell rung in the Winter Classic, kept playing, and then got his bell rung again days later. Now he hasn't played since and his career is in jeopardy.

Hines should take note of that before he calls out Ben or another teammate when they haven't been cleared to play by doctors.

feltdizz
02-28-2011, 09:27 AM
why would there be a story if your Qb suffers a concussion?


there haven't been incidentsthis year?? broken nose, broken foot. did you see any interviews with hines this year?? they were a total 180 from what he said last year before that ravens game.

this year "ben is a warrior, and he plays thru injuries like this all the time and thats why he's great"

Ben didn't play in the Ravens game last year... Ben didn't miss any games due to injury this year.

All I'm saying is I think we should wait until there is another dust up that puts Ben on the bench to see if Hines has done a 180.

feltdizz
02-28-2011, 09:32 AM
....or maybe there haven't been any incidents to give opinions on since camp? :stirpot

People act like Hines just calls up reporters when the water is calm... he usually gives an opinion when sh!t hits the fan.

The big WR, Ben missing the Ravens game, the SA accusations etc.

It's not like Hines just goes in on Ben when there is a non story.

So Ben's not allowed to miss a game with a concussion but Hines is allowed to miss the majority of an AFC TITLE GAME AGAINST THE SAME TEAM with a sore knee?

Ward gives the Steelers media what they want, that's why most of the guys on the regular beat don't call him out. But media who don't rely on Hines Ward for their jobs pretty much laugh at him for how he acts.

See what's going on with Sidney Crosby? Never had a concussion in his life. Got his bell rung in the Winter Classic, kept playing, and then got his bell rung again days later. Now he hasn't played since and his career is in jeopardy.

Hines should take note of that before he calls out Ben or another teammate when they haven't been cleared to play by doctors.

dude, you need to calm down....

I didn't say Hines was right every time he called Ben out I'm just saying Hines tends to speak his mind on Ben when Ben has a media story around him...

Hines doesn't call up the reporters and dish out dirt on Ben at random.

Crash
02-28-2011, 01:13 PM
I didn't say Hines was right every time he called Ben out I'm just saying Hines tends to speak his mind on Ben when Ben has a media story around him...

Hines speaks his mind on EVERYTHING. He's the most disruptive force on the team. But because he plays the media game to perfection he gets away with it.

If Hines played in a market like New York, or Dallas? He'd be TO.

Crash
02-28-2011, 01:23 PM
He apologized to Ben for it and admitted he was wrong. Ward is an emotional guy who speaks his mind, but only people like you try to twist them to fit your own myopic and biased views.

Emotional guy my as$. He's a punk. You'd realize that if you paid attention, or admitted how much he runs his mouth.


Watch who you're calling "son" by the way. Until that last stalker comment I never disrespected you or hurled insults in your direction. The only way my account of the Peyton Manning story is "flimsy", is if you are calling me a liar.

Prove what you said. If you are going to call DOCUMENTED facts that I bring up "flimsy evidence", then what shall we call your Peyton story when it hasn't been posted by anyone else? A story? A rumor? Fairytale? Hold YOURSELF to the same standards you give other posters here.

Crash
02-28-2011, 01:32 PM
Cowher and the Steelers are hoping that North Carolina State's Philip Rivers falls to them at the 11th slot in the first round. Meanwhile, the Chargers -- rebuffed by Mississippi quarterback Eli Manning -- see little difference between the two players and may trade down from the first overall pick with the New York Giants at No. 4 and take Rivers.

If the Chargers are successful, that would leave Steelers officials disappointed.

Nonetheless, they are more than willing to continue to play Tommy Maddox at quarterback. Cowher repeatedly has said that the team's woes a year ago can't be exclusively pinned on Maddox.

Meanwhile, the Giants may deal with the Oakland Raiders at No. 2. The Giants would take Manning while the Raiders' target is Texas wide receiver Roy Williams. That would leave Rivers to slide to the Steelers, who prefer Rivers over Miami (Ohio) quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 90879.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_190879.html)

[youtube:f3y31qev]CQFEY9RIRJA[/youtube:f3y31qev]

feltdizz
02-28-2011, 02:56 PM
The only article that is documented as fact is the 1 article that says what Crash likes?

So if 1 reporter says Rivers and 5 others say Cowher said take Ben.. and Colbert says Cowher said take Ben.. they are lying?

What happened to evolution? What if Cowher really liked Rivers due to seeing him at NCState but once Ben was brought in for an interview he fell in love with Ben?

I believe Colbert or whoever gave Cowher credit over any reporter in Pittsburgh.

Sorry Crash... looks like you fell in love with a stale azzz document. :oops:

Crash
02-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Feel free to ask any member of the Steelers media what happened and who Cowher wanted. But somehow one comment trumps YEARS of reporting by multiple sources including Dan Rooney himself? Yeah, OK.

Cowher's "for the good of the organization" quote if anything, proves my point even more. That's hardly a ringing endorsement of Cowher "wanting" Ben in Pittsburgh.

Like I said, if Dan Rooney doesn't go into the war room, Ben Roethlisberger goes to Buffalo.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 03:15 PM
Having Philip Rivers rated above Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 does not mean we didn't want Ben.

I'm sure we had Trent Williams ranked higher than Pouncey. That doesn't mean we didn't want Pouncey.

I'm sure we had Tyson Jackson rated higher than Ziggy Hood. That doesn't mean we didn't want Hood.

Crash
02-28-2011, 03:31 PM
Having Philip Rivers rated above Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 does not mean we didn't want Ben.

Cowher preferred Rivers, DeAngelo Hall, and then Shawn Andrews.

Sorry 43, but Dan Rooney brought Ben to Pittsburgh. No one else.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Having Philip Rivers rated above Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 does not mean we didn't want Ben.

Cowher preferred Rivers, DeAngelo Hall, and then Shawn Andrews.

Sorry 43, but Dan Rooney brought Ben to Pittsburgh. No one else.
The name is blockhead and as cited in this thread and quoted by Kevin Colbert, the GM at the time, that notion appears to be false at least partially. I'm sure Dan Rooney did want him but to suggest Cowher was completely against drafting him by saying "no one else" is false.

Every year we have players rated higher than others but the rules of the draft state we can't select players once they are selected by another team.

feltdizz
02-28-2011, 03:53 PM
Cowher's "for the good of the organization" quote if anything, proves my point even more. That's hardly a ringing endorsement of Cowher "wanting" Ben in Pittsburgh.


You sure love to read between the lines to find facts.

Crash
02-28-2011, 04:02 PM
You sure love to read between the lines to find facts.

And Rooney's DIRECT quote?

Crash
02-28-2011, 04:06 PM
The name is blockhead

Just another alias for you 43. You see how this works is, when you try games like this? You should not type the same comments as you do on StillerNation about me as you do here.

You aren't slick at all boy. Now scram.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 04:40 PM
The name is blockhead

Just another alias for you 43. You see how this works is, when you try games like this? You should not type the same comments as you do on StillerNation about me as you do here.

You aren't slick at all boy. Now scram.
Why can't you simply focus on the discussion and the topic?

Why do you feel the need to tell people how to act?

You go by GuySmiley7 on scout.com. You don't see me addressing you with that here, do you?

Crash
02-28-2011, 04:54 PM
The name is blockhead

Just another alias for you 43. You see how this works is, when you try games like this? You should not type the same comments as you do on StillerNation about me as you do here.

You aren't slick at all boy. Now scram.
Why can't you simply focus on the discussion and the topic?

Why do you feel the need to tell people how to act?

You go by GuySmiley7 on scout.com. You don't see me addressing you with that here, do you?

Trai Essex wasn't the topic, and yet you brought him up no?

So what 43? You aren't slick.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Trai Essex wasn't the topic, and yet you brought him up no?

So what 43? You aren't slick.

The name is blockhead and 43 isn't the only one that knows your ramblings and stupidity laced tirades. :hint:

Crash
02-28-2011, 05:00 PM
Trai Essex wasn't the topic, and yet you brought him up no?

So what 43? You aren't slick.

The name is blockhead and 43 isn't the only one that knows your ramblings and stupidity laced tirades. :hint:

Retard, you post the same comments as 43 as you do now.

Put down the dope and focus. At least make an effort you obsessed freak.

Flasteel
02-28-2011, 05:33 PM
[quote]He apologized to Ben for it and admitted he was wrong. Ward is an emotional guy who speaks his mind, but only people like you try to twist them to fit your own myopic and biased views.

Emotional guy my as$. He's a punk. You'd realize that if you paid attention, or admitted how much he runs his mouth.


Watch who you're calling "son" by the way. Until that last stalker comment I never disrespected you or hurled insults in your direction. The only way my account of the Peyton Manning story is "flimsy", is if you are calling me a liar.

Prove what you said. If you are going to call DOCUMENTED facts that I bring up "flimsy evidence", then what shall we call your Peyton story when it hasn't been posted by anyone else? A story? A rumor? Fairytale? Hold YOURSELF to the same standards you give other posters here.[/quote:1roxva9p]

Dude, you really need to slow down and absorb what you are typing.

1. What I saw with Manning was a 1st hand eye-witness account. I did not take any pictures, so short of you dialing him up and asking him, you are forced to take it for what it's worth. I can only assure you that it's true. If that's not good enough, then I can't help you any further.

2. Providing documented facts about any given situation doesn't tell the whole story. You don't have all of the facts and I'm stunned to see that you think you actually understand these situations fully. You don't. None of us do. We weren't there.

You have been proven wrong in Cowher's pursuit of Andrews over Ben. Deal with it.

Crash
02-28-2011, 05:35 PM
You have been proven wrong in Cowher's pursuit of Andrews over Ben.

Dan Rooney says I'm right. Deal with it.

ScoreKeeper
02-28-2011, 05:39 PM
I have not read the whole thread, and I don't care who is saying they are right or wrong on this matter because I thought it was common knowledge that Dan himself stepped in and made Ben our pick. He has said it, and wrote it in his book. In fact, he said he was always reluctant to voice too much concerning draft picks; letting the coaches, scouts, and GM to that job; but in this instance, with Cowher pushing to draft Andrews, he felt he had to step because he could not see passing up Ben.

That is all.

Have a great day. :Cheers

hawaiiansteel
02-28-2011, 05:42 PM
wasn't Alonzo Jackson also one of Bill Cowher's picks? :wft

Crash
02-28-2011, 05:44 PM
I have not read the whole thread, and I don't care who is saying they are right or wrong on this matter because I thought it was common knowledge that Dan himself stepped in and made Ben our pick. He has said it, and wrote it in his book. In fact, he said he was always reluctant to voice too much concerning draft picks; letting the coaches, scouts, and GM to that job; but in this instance, with Cowher pushing to draft Andrews, he felt he had to step because he could not see passing up Ben.


That's what Dan Rooney himself said. But somehow only Kevin Colbert's recent quote seems to matter.

ScoreKeeper
02-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Page 264 of Dan's book:

Our people had turned to Andrews, our likely number one pick. I could not bear the thought of passing on another great QB prospect like we did on Marino so I steered the conversation to Roethlisberger...he was just what we needed.

Dan Rooney-

Dan Rooney
My 75 Years With the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL

Published 2007

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 05:59 PM
Page 264 of Dan's book:

Our people had turned to Andrews, our likely number one pick. I could not bear the thought of passing on another great QB prospect like we did on Marino so I steered the conversation to Roethlisberger...he was just what we needed.

Dan Rooney-

Dan Rooney
My 75 Years With the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL

Published 2007
So putting the quotes together it seems the scouts and Colbert had decided Andrews was the better selection when Dan spoke up and Bill agreed and the room turned to Ben.

I'm sure this stuff happens all the time with different opinions being settled by the hiararchy.

Crash
02-28-2011, 06:06 PM
wasn't Alonzo Jackson also one of Bill Cowher's picks? :wft

The rumor was part of the reason Colbert managed to trade for that pick with KC to draft Troy was so Cowher, if LJ was gone, would not pick Jackson in the first round as our scouts thought he would be there in round 2.

Only when Colbert managed to be in position to get that pick, did Cowher warm up to the idea of drafting Polamalu.

Crash
02-28-2011, 06:18 PM
With Mississippi quarterback Eli Manning trying to talk his way out of San Diego, the Steelers are investigating the cost of climbing higher in the first round to get the quarterback they have targeted -- North Carolina State's Philip Rivers.

The problem: The price tag may be too steep, possibly second- and fourth-round picks, in addition to their choice in the first round. Steelers officials and coach Bill Cowher have said they want to keep all nine of their selections to improve other areas of the team.

Director of football operations Kevin Colbert has said that trading up is the Steelers' "least likely" draft-day scenario, and they probably will stay at No. 11 and pick.

Meanwhile, the New York Giants and Cleveland Browns are interested in trading up to the first overall choice held by the Chargers. The Giants could present a proposal to Chargers officials today.

The Giants want Manning, and the Browns are hoping to get Iowa offensive tackle Robert Gallery. The Chargers don't see a significant difference between Manning and Rivers and would gladly settle for Rivers. That would leave the Steelers out of the Rivers derby at No. 11.

It's also possible that the Buffalo Bills, who may be looking for a quarterback at No. 13, might consider trading ahead of the Steelers, but the Bills are probably unwilling to give up a second-round choice.

The Steelers also are eagerly pursuing Rivers in the final days before the draft, envisioning him as the eventual replacement for Tommy Maddox and a fallback candidate this year, in the event of an emergency.

Rivers, who already has earned his degree in business and holds the NCAA record with 51 career starts, is considered a quick study and a better bet to succeed in his rookie season than Miami (Ohio)'s Ben Roethlisberger, who is leaving school with a year of collegiate eligibility remaining.


Read more: Steelers contemplate trading up in order to get Rivers - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 90703.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_190703.html)

hawaiiansteel
02-28-2011, 06:27 PM
With Mississippi quarterback Eli Manning trying to talk his way out of San Diego, the Steelers are investigating the cost of climbing higher in the first round to get the quarterback they have targeted -- North Carolina State's Philip Rivers.

The problem: The price tag may be too steep, possibly second- and fourth-round picks, in addition to their choice in the first round. Steelers officials and coach Bill Cowher have said they want to keep all nine of their selections to improve other areas of the team.

Director of football operations Kevin Colbert has said that trading up is the Steelers' "least likely" draft-day scenario, and they probably will stay at No. 11 and pick.

Meanwhile, the New York Giants and Cleveland Browns are interested in trading up to the first overall choice held by the Chargers. The Giants could present a proposal to Chargers officials today.

The Giants want Manning, and the Browns are hoping to get Iowa offensive tackle Robert Gallery. The Chargers don't see a significant difference between Manning and Rivers and would gladly settle for Rivers. That would leave the Steelers out of the Rivers derby at No. 11.

It's also possible that the Buffalo Bills, who may be looking for a quarterback at No. 13, might consider trading ahead of the Steelers, but the Bills are probably unwilling to give up a second-round choice.

The Steelers also are eagerly pursuing Rivers in the final days before the draft, envisioning him as the eventual replacement for Tommy Maddox and a fallback candidate this year, in the event of an emergency.

Rivers, who already has earned his degree in business and holds the NCAA record with 51 career starts, is considered a quick study and a better bet to succeed in his rookie season than Miami (Ohio)'s Ben Roethlisberger, who is leaving school with a year of collegiate eligibility remaining.


Read more: Steelers contemplate trading up in order to get Rivers - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 90703.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_190703.html)


an obvious smokescreen... :D

Crash
02-28-2011, 06:28 PM
Cowher isn't that smart.

NJ-STEELER
02-28-2011, 06:30 PM
Page 264 of Dan's book:

Our people had turned to Andrews, our likely number one pick. I could not bear the thought of passing on another great QB prospect like we did on Marino so I steered the conversation to Roethlisberger...he was just what we needed.

Dan Rooney-

Dan Rooney
My 75 Years With the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL

Published 2007


rooney is a liar

LOL

Flasteel
02-28-2011, 06:46 PM
Page 264 of Dan's book:

Our people had turned to Andrews, our likely number one pick. I could not bear the thought of passing on another great QB prospect like we did on Marino so I steered the conversation to Roethlisberger...he was just what we needed.

Dan Rooney-

Dan Rooney
My 75 Years With the Pittsburgh Steelers and the NFL

Published 2007


You could have at least read the original post:
"Choosing Ben Roethlisberger with the 11th pick of the 2004 draft. Normally, I'd make the franchise quarterback a GM's best decision -- especially with Big Ben on the verge of winning his third Super Bowl -- but Colbert credits former coach Bill Cowher for selling everyone on the Miami (of Ohio) quarterback, saying the move had to be made "for the good of the organization." He was right. Roethlisberger is one of the top quarterbacks in the game and a virtual certainty to make the Hall of Fame."

Colbert states that it was Cowher who sold it to everyone in the room. This account meshes very well with what Rooney stated. He STEERED the conversation to Roethlisberger when "his people" turned to Andrews.

Why would you now believe that Cowher was one of those people if he was the one who Colbert credits as selling everyone on Ben?

Maybe Cowher really wanted Andrews, but when he saw how adamant Rooney was on getting a franchise quarterback, he couldn't pass up the opportunity to suck up to him. Got any other scenario that is remotely plausible where Colbert isn't lying?

Thanks for feeding that parasite that's sucking the common sense out of Crash's pre-frontal cortex. :Cheers

Crash
02-28-2011, 06:54 PM
How can Cowher sell anyone on Ben when he couldn't even be bothered to attend his Pro Day in Ohio?

Crash
02-28-2011, 06:56 PM
Colbert states that it was Cowher who sold it to everyone in the room. This account meshes very well with what Rooney stated. He STEERED the conversation to Roethlisberger when "his people" turned to Andrews.

And Cowher would be one of those people, no?

If Rooney doesn't walk into the war room, Ben's in Buffalo.

Colbert's not going to admit during SB week that Dan Rooney threw his weight around on draft day. Rooney's explanation of the 2004 draft is safely tucked away in his book, where only Steelers fans even read it or care.

Flasteel
02-28-2011, 07:24 PM
Colbert states that it was Cowher who sold it to everyone in the room. This account meshes very well with what Rooney stated. He STEERED the conversation to Roethlisberger when "his people" turned to Andrews.

And Cowher would be one of those people, no?

If Rooney doesn't walk into the war room, Ben's in Buffalo.

Colbert's not going to admit during SB week that Dan Rooney threw his weight around on draft day. Rooney's explanation of the 2004 draft is safely tucked away in his book, where only Steelers fans even read it or care.

Admit that Rooney was throwing his weight around?

Where do you get this stuff?

Do you think he just made this up to spare Dan Rooney some type of embarrassment? If that's the case, then why bring Cowher into it at all? Why would he try to take away credit from Rooney?

Your argument makes zero sense.

As far as not being "bothered" to go to Ben's pro day...nice use of biased hyperbole to try and twist your point further. You don't know what the reason was for this. Maybe it's as simple as the coaches splitting up the QB prospects and Whipple went to Ben's while he went to Rivers'. Maybe it had to do with him living in NC. Maybe it had something to do with which QB he wanted a closer look at. Who cares?

What you are arguing is that Colbert is lying. You offer Cowher's lack of attendance at Ben's pro day as some type of quasi-proof that there is no way he would have supported taking Ben over Andrews. That my friend is nothing short of denial.

You are caught in your own poorly constructed logic trap Crash. It is only the truth that will set you free...if you embrace it.

Crash
02-28-2011, 07:36 PM
Admit that Rooney was throwing his weight around?

Where do you get this stuff?

Do you think he just made this up to spare Dan Rooney some type of embarrassment?

I think he made it up to save HIMSELF and COWHER the embarrassment of wanting Andrews over Roethlisberger and having to be saved by Dan Rooney from making a grave mistake that forever would have harmed this franchise.

Flasteel
02-28-2011, 08:28 PM
Admit that Rooney was throwing his weight around?

Where do you get this stuff?

Do you think he just made this up to spare Dan Rooney some type of embarrassment?

I think he made it up to save HIMSELF and COWHER the embarrassment of wanting Andrews over Roethlisberger and having to be saved by Dan Rooney from making a grave mistake that forever would have harmed this franchise.

Why?

He is admitting in this very statement that it was Cowher who deserves the credit...not him. Is it somehow less embarrassing if he stands alone against the Roethlisberger camp?

You are making two very clear statements in your above post.

1. You believe Colbert is lying.
2. Colbert is lying about something that would make him look like the only fool in the room.

A concept you should be quite familiar with by now.

NJ-STEELER
02-28-2011, 08:33 PM
when you miss the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 years... you better believe you're gonna listen to the man that writes your checks when he makes a suggestion

whats he gonna say "hey old man, look at my record... you should listen to me and pick andrews"

LOL

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2011, 08:33 PM
A concept you should be quite familiar with by now.

http://www.dan-dare.org/Dan%20FRD/MuttleyAni.gif

Crash
02-28-2011, 08:35 PM
Admit that Rooney was throwing his weight around?

Where do you get this stuff?

Do you think he just made this up to spare Dan Rooney some type of embarrassment?

I think he made it up to save HIMSELF and COWHER the embarrassment of wanting Andrews over Roethlisberger and having to be saved by Dan Rooney from making a grave mistake that forever would have harmed this franchise.

Why?

He is admitting in this very statement that it was Cowher who deserves the credit...not him. Is it somehow less embarrassing if he stands alone against the Roethlisberger camp?

You are making two very clear statements in your above post.

1. You believe Colbert is lying.
2. Colbert is lying about something that would make him look like the only fool in the room.

A concept you should be quite familiar with by now.

Not I. I have Dan Rooney's own words, and years of media members all saying the same thing Dan did.

Cowher didn't want Ben, he only got there because Rooney spoke up.

Crash
02-28-2011, 08:39 PM
when you miss the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 years... you better believe you're gonna listen to the man that writes your checks when he makes a suggestion

what he gonna say " hey old man, look at my record... you should listen to me"

LOL

Just like 1993 when Cowher tried to change the side the Steelers bench was going to be on.

That lasted one pre-season game, after Steelers STH's phoned in and complained, Dan told him that wasn't going to work.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 08:55 PM
According to Dan Rooney himself he steered the conversation back to Ben. Dan is not a scout and would not have vetoed the entire idea if they didn't agree to agree. Clearly, Ben and the other canidates were close in ratings. Having Rivers higher also does not mean they did not want Ben. Having Schaub lower also doesn't mean they didn't want him. The NFL does not allow a player to be selected 11th when they are already selected 4th.

It's not like everyone wanted Andrews and Dan Rooney said, "Nope, we're taking Ben." In his own words, he "steered" the conversation back to Ben. In Colbert's own words, Bill then took over and drove the point ending in a consensus to take Ben. I would imagine difference like this happen all the time and consensus is reached after discussion.

To say Bill did not want Ben under any circumstance or was opposed to drafting him is a FLAT OUT LIE!

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 08:56 PM
when you miss the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 years... you better believe you're gonna listen to the man that writes your checks when he makes a suggestion

whats he gonna say "hey old man, look at my record... you should listen to me and pick andrews"

LOL
When you make the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years, you better believe you're gonna listen to the man that coaches the team as well as the man that writes the checks.

Flasteel
02-28-2011, 08:56 PM
Admit that Rooney was throwing his weight around?

Where do you get this stuff?

Do you think he just made this up to spare Dan Rooney some type of embarrassment?

I think he made it up to save HIMSELF and COWHER the embarrassment of wanting Andrews over Roethlisberger and having to be saved by Dan Rooney from making a grave mistake that forever would have harmed this franchise.

Why?

He is admitting in this very statement that it was Cowher who deserves the credit...not him. Is it somehow less embarrassing if he stands alone against the Roethlisberger camp?

You are making two very clear statements in your above post.

1. You believe Colbert is lying.
2. Colbert is lying about something that would make him look like the only fool in the room.

A concept you should be quite familiar with by now.

Not I. I have Dan Rooney's own words, and years of media members all saying the same thing Dan did.

Cowher didn't want Ben, he only got there because Rooney spoke up.

And 7 years later Kevin Colbert decides to fabricate a scenario where Bill Cowher deserves credit for selling Roethlisberger as the pick.

He decides to undermine the role of Dan Rooney -his boss- and give credit to a guy he no longer works with.

Was he upset after all of these years that Rooney was right and wanted to take a little shine off his star?

Did he owe Bill a solid?

Nobody is claiming that Dan Rooney didn't steer the conversation to Roethlisberger. Your problem is that you see this and Bill Cowher also stumping for him as mutually exclusive possibilities. You have assumed all along that Cowher was among those who wanted Andrews and now Colbert has plainly stated he was Ben's biggest champion in the war room. You lose.

Your only response?

Colbert is lying. Lying for no reason and to his own detriment.

You should feel that logic trap beginning to loosen by now. You have backed yourself into some astoundingly bizarre reasoning. The truth is becoming more evident to you...I can feel it...embrace it Crash...embrace it.

Crash
02-28-2011, 09:09 PM
He decides to undermine the role of Dan Rooney -his boss- and give credit to a guy he no longer works with.

Yet.

By giving credit to Cowher, it's also giving himself an extension of the same credit. Colbert's has been getting big props for the way he's helped "build" this team. How does it look for his own credibility if he admits on the NFL's grandest stage that he and his fellow football people didn't want the teams most important piece in this whole 7 year run and only got him because Dan Rooney walked into the war room?

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 09:16 PM
He decides to undermine the role of Dan Rooney -his boss- and give credit to a guy he no longer works with.

Yet.

By giving credit to Cowher, it's also giving himself an extension of the same credit. Colbert's has been getting big props for the way he's helped "build" this team. How does it look for his own credibility if he admits on the NFL's grandest stage that he and his fellow football people didn't want the teams most important piece in this whole 7 year run and only got him because Dan Rooney walked into the war room?
I'm sure everyone outside of Cowboys employees, Raiders employees and you realize that is not the way the Steelers make decisions.

Crash
02-28-2011, 09:18 PM
To say Bill did not want Ben under any circumstance or was opposed to drafting him is a FLAT OUT LIE!

If Bill had his choice, Ben wouldn't be there 43.

Thank God for Dan Rooney.

When Norv is finally fired, and Cowher goes there and this is finally confirmed by Cowher because he doesn't know when to shut up? Just make sure to come back under your next alias and admit I was right.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 09:24 PM
To say Bill did not want Ben under any circumstance or was opposed to drafting him is a FLAT OUT LIE!

If Bill had his choice, Ben wouldn't be there.
You know more than Kevin Colbert now?


Thank God for Dan Rooney.
It was nice of him to help steer the conversation. I don't think god cares, if there is a god.


When Norv is finally fired, and Cowher goes there and this is finally confirmed by Cowher because he doesn't know when to shut up?
Yes, if Cowher came out and said he had nothing to do with the teams selection of Ben, I would believe it.

If Kevin Colbert comes out and says Bill was the driving force behind the selection of Ben, will you believe it? Wait, What?

If we were fortunate to land Rivers, I'm sure his fortunes would have been different much like if Ben goes to Buffalo, he's possibly out of the league by now. It takes a team to win in the NFL and we all know Ben wins nothing without this team.

eniparadoxgma
02-28-2011, 09:35 PM
If we were fortunate to land Rivers, I'm sure his fortunes would have been different much like if Ben goes to Buffalo, he's possibly out of the league by now. It takes a team to win in the NFL and we all know Ben wins nothing without this team.

When, exactly, did this board become infiltrated with trolls? I can't pinpoint the exact date.

Crash
02-28-2011, 09:35 PM
if Ben goes to Buffalo, he's possibly out of the league by now. It takes a team to win in the NFL and we all know Ben wins nothing without this team.

Ben's won at every level he's ever played in. Cowher won no rings in a decade plus career until Rooney pulled rank. The Steelers were on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. Four of six seasons out of the playoffs proves it.

The Bills were 9-7 in 2004 with past his prime Bledsoe. Now add Ben instead, what happens? They also didn't have QBs when they won 7 games three straight years. Add Ben to those teams, what happens?

The Bills have talent on offense. They lack a legit QB.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 09:43 PM
The Steelers were on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. Four of six seasons out of the playoffs proves it.
The Steelers were not on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. 2 of the 3 years before Ben arrived, the Steelers won the division and were in the playoffs, winning 2 games and losing 2 games, one of which was the AFCC game.

Crash
02-28-2011, 09:46 PM
The Steelers were on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. Four of six seasons out of the playoffs proves it.
The Steelers were not on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. 2 of the 3 years before Ben arrived, the Steelers won the division and were in the playoffs, winning 2 games and losing 2 games, one of which was the AFCC game.

So Peyton Manning is overrated, right? He was drafted by a team who was in the playoffs two of the previous three seasons, one of which was an AFC title game.

Now what 43, hold your hero Peyton to the same standard.

4 of 6 seasons at home, and a 10 loss season prior to Ben.

If that's not a downward spiral, you went from pot to crack.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 10:02 PM
The Steelers were on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. Four of six seasons out of the playoffs proves it.
The Steelers were not on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. 2 of the 3 years before Ben arrived, the Steelers won the division and were in the playoffs, winning 2 games and losing 2 games, one of which was the AFCC game.

So Peyton Manning is overrated, right? He was drafted by a team who was in the playoffs two of the previous three seasons, one of which was an AFC title game.
Yeah, sure. If you choose to believe that, it's your decision.

Crash
02-28-2011, 10:23 PM
The Steelers were on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. Four of six seasons out of the playoffs proves it.
The Steelers were not on a downward spiral before Ben arrived. 2 of the 3 years before Ben arrived, the Steelers won the division and were in the playoffs, winning 2 games and losing 2 games, one of which was the AFCC game.

So Peyton Manning is overrated, right? He was drafted by a team who was in the playoffs two of the previous three seasons, one of which was an AFC title game.
Yeah, sure. If you choose to believe that, it's your decision.

Same situations for both teams.

Four of six seasons at home for the Colts, but two of three seasons in the playoffs, a 2-2 record, and one AFC title game before Peyton.

Four of six seasons at home for the Steelers, but two of three seasons in the playoffs, a 2-2 record, and one AFC title game before Ben.

same exact thing. So it's simple: Either both teams were on a downward spiral, or both teams were not on a downward spiral.

Can't be one scenario for one, and not the other.

Focus on the facts.

Blockhead
02-28-2011, 10:40 PM
Focus on the facts.

I will. All of them, unlike yourself. Thanks.

hawaiiansteel
02-28-2011, 10:46 PM
Focus on the facts.

I will. All of them, unlike yourself. Thanks.


isn't it fun to have a friend to play with? :roll:

http://justrealeyez.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/kids-fighting.jpg

NJ-STEELER
03-01-2011, 02:02 AM
here's a question.

why has it taken 7 years for this to come out. are you telling me he wasn't asked before??

could it be colbert trying to get billy boy a sniff for any coaching opening this year. was he even asked to interview at any of the vacancies this year after he said he's looking to get back into it

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 10:01 AM
here's a question.

why has it taken 7 years for this to come out. are you telling me he wasn't asked before??

could it be colbert trying to get billy boy a sniff for any coaching opening this year. was he even asked to interview at any of the vacancies this year after he said he's looking to get back into it

:nono

The only people sniffing at this story are crazy Steeler fans.

Ben was the last guy in the room in NYC on draft day!!!

I'm pretty sure this indicates that more than a few coaches and GM's had other guys on their list too...

Cowher doesn't need Colberts 7 year old thumbs up to get a whiff at a job. His salary demand is the only thing holding him back from a gig.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 12:18 PM
here's a question.

why has it taken 7 years for this to come out. are you telling me he wasn't asked before??

could it be colbert trying to get billy boy a sniff for any coaching opening this year. was he even asked to interview at any of the vacancies this year after he said he's looking to get back into it

:nono

The only people sniffing at this story are crazy Steeler fans.

Ben was the last guy in the room in NYC on draft day!!!

I'm pretty sure this indicates that more than a few coaches and GM's had other guys on their list too...

Cowher doesn't need Colberts 7 year old thumbs up to get a whiff at a job. His salary demand is the only thing holding him back from a gig.
Bill's making over $3 mill a year for his cushy studio job. Why would he come back to coaching and 80 hr work weeks for less than stellar money?

Crash
03-01-2011, 12:35 PM
I'm pretty sure this indicates that more than a few coaches and GM's had other guys on their list too...

The majority of the top 10 already had long twrm commitments to QBs. Once the Browns passed, barring a trade he wasn't going in the top 10.

Buffalo wanted to move up to get him, but didn't want to pay the price to get there.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 12:52 PM
Buffalo wanted to move up to get him, but didn't want to pay the price to get there.
Because they also had doubts. If they thought he was a top tier QB, they'd have gladly paid the price. I would imagine if Rivers was still on the board, they'd have gladly moved up and paid the price. He was the higher regarded QB at the time and is still higher regarded by many.

NJ-STEELER
03-01-2011, 01:23 PM
I'm pretty sure this indicates that more than a few coaches and GM's had other guys on their list too...

The majority of the top 10 already had long twrm commitments to QBs. Once the Browns passed, barring a trade he wasn't going in the top 10.

Buffalo wanted to move up to get him, but didn't want to pay the price to get there.

and still regretting it

thank god for us

Crash
03-01-2011, 01:25 PM
Because they also had doubts.

Because Tom Donahoe was an idiot who didn't want to part with a 2nd and 4th round pick.

And imagine that, he's no longer relevant in today's NFL.


He was the higher regarded QB at the time and is still higher regarded by many.

Yeah, by fantasy geeks.

I'll take the QB who wins championships and Super Bowl rings.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 01:30 PM
I'm pretty sure this indicates that more than a few coaches and GM's had other guys on their list too...

The majority of the top 10 already had long twrm commitments to QBs. Once the Browns passed, barring a trade he wasn't going in the top 10.

Buffalo wanted to move up to get him, but didn't want to pay the price to get there.

I think the look on Ben's face on draft day said it all....

teams go back and forth on picks all the time. Not sure why this is a big deal...

Crash
03-01-2011, 01:33 PM
teams go back and forth on picks all the time. Not sure why this is a big deal...

That's not what happened here. Cowher and his staff didn't want Ben, and if it wasn't for Rooney speaking up? Ben wouldn't be here.

RuthlessBurgher
03-01-2011, 01:41 PM
Who the hell really cares this much about who was primarily responsible for a draft decision 7 years ago? This team ultimately comes to a consensus about who they want to pick. The G.M. doesn't get sole credit or blame for a pick. The coach doesn't get sole credit or blame for a pick. The owner doesn't get sole credit or blame for a pick. Ben's here now. Why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch now about how our team ultimately came to the decision to draft him? What purpose does this serve? What difference does it make? Seriously....this is going to a long offseason if there is a lockout and this is the kind of minutia people want to spend time arguing about.

Crash
03-01-2011, 01:45 PM
Because people are obsessed with calling me out.

Which is why this thread was created.

:moon

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 01:53 PM
Because people are obsessed with calling me out.

Which is why this thread was created.

:moon

This thread was about correcting a lie you have typed hundreds, if not thousands, of times over the last few years.

The truth has now been shown and your words have now been proven incorrect. Cowher was much in favor of selecting Ben. He, like most if not all NFL teams would have preferred Philip Rivers but he was previously selected, removing him as an option.

Everyone knows you hated the decade and a half of Steelers football Cowher coached but no need to make up lies to further prove it.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 01:56 PM
teams go back and forth on picks all the time. Not sure why this is a big deal...

That's not what happened here. Cowher and his staff didn't want Ben, and if it wasn't for Rooney speaking up? Ben wouldn't be here.

That has been proven to be incorrect. The truth is the consensus of all of the staff was leaning away from Ben when Rooney steered the conversation back to Ben. The staff then began to re-evaluate, with Cowher leading the charge for Ben and ended up going with Ben, as a staff and ownership decision.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 02:07 PM
Who the hell really cares this much about who was primarily responsible for a draft decision 7 years ago? This team ultimately comes to a consensus about who they want to pick. The G.M. doesn't get sole credit or blame for a pick. The coach doesn't get sole credit or blame for a pick. The owner doesn't get sole credit or blame for a pick. Ben's here now. Why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch now about how our team ultimately came to the decision to draft him? What purpose does this serve? What difference does it make? Seriously....this is going to a long offseason if there is a lockout and this is the kind of minutia people want to spend time arguing about.

I think we all know who cares this much...

and it's going to be a long off season regardless. :Cheers

Crash
03-01-2011, 02:33 PM
teams go back and forth on picks all the time. Not sure why this is a big deal...

That's not what happened here. Cowher and his staff didn't want Ben, and if it wasn't for Rooney speaking up? Ben wouldn't be here.

That has been proven to be incorrect. The truth is the consensus of all of the staff was leaning away from Ben when Rooney steered the conversation back to Ben. The staff then began to re-evaluate, with Cowher leading the charge for Ben and ended up going with Ben, as a staff and ownership decision.

Please. Did Cowher give you a reach around or a free bag of weed for such blatant as$ kissing?

Rooney's words YEARS AGO speak for themselves. He called Andrews "our likely #1 pick".

Then HE spoke up about Ben and it all changed.

Re-evaluate my as$. Rooney pulled rank and his underlings did what they were told in Rooney's own subtle way.

If Rooney does't speak up? Ben's not a Steeler.

Period.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 02:52 PM
teams go back and forth on picks all the time. Not sure why this is a big deal...

That's not what happened here. Cowher and his staff didn't want Ben, and if it wasn't for Rooney speaking up? Ben wouldn't be here.

That has been proven to be incorrect. The truth is the consensus of all of the staff was leaning away from Ben when Rooney steered the conversation back to Ben. The staff then began to re-evaluate, with Cowher leading the charge for Ben and ended up going with Ben, as a staff and ownership decision.

Please. Did Cowher give you a reach around or a free bag of weed for such blatant as$ kissing?

Rooney's words YEARS AGO speak for themselves. He called Andrews "our likely #1 pick".

Then HE spoke up about Ben and it all changed.

Re-evaluate my as$. Rooney pulled rank and his underlings did what they were told in Rooney's own subtle way.

If Rooney does't speak up? Ben's not a Steeler.

Period.

dude... :oops:



dude you need a Ben intervention.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Saying something repeatedly won't change the facts nor will trying to insult me or cursing.

The Sodfather
03-01-2011, 02:54 PM
dude... :oops:



dude you need a Ben intervention.


He needs to hit rehab with Charlie Sheen.

Crash
03-01-2011, 03:13 PM
Saying something repeatedly won't change the facts nor will trying to insult me or cursing.

The facts junkie are that Dan Rooney got Ben to Pittsburgh no matter how many alias' you use here.

Go back to SN with the rest of the retards.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Saying something repeatedly won't change the facts nor will trying to insult me or cursing.

The facts junkie are that Dan Rooney got Ben to Pittsburgh

The facts are Dan steered the conversation back to Ben in the course of deciding who we were going to pick. Dan Rooney did not draft Ben, he simply steered the conversation, which according to Kevin Colbert, Bill then spearheaded and caused Ben to be drafted.

Crash
03-01-2011, 03:35 PM
Which means you dunce, that if Rooney didn't speak up? Ben isn't here.

Only a lunk head like Cowher would value a fat tackle over a franchise QB.

Cowher should be smart enough on his own to realize that Ben should have been the pick. He shouldn't need 74 year old Dan Rooney to persuade the war room, thus changing the course of Steelers history.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Which means you dunce, that if Rooney didn't speak up? Ben isn't here.

Only a lunk head like Cowher would value a fat tackle over a franchise QB.

Cowher should be smart enough on his own to realize that Ben should have been the pick. He shouldn't need 74 year old Dan Rooney to persuade the war room, thus changing the course of Steelers history.

...and there you have it.

This is all about hating Cowher and you will do whatever you can to rewrite history to paint him in a negative light.

it's say yo! real sad...

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 03:41 PM
Which means you dunce, that if Rooney didn't speak up? Ben isn't here.
Actually, according to Dan Rooney, momentum had swung in the room to players other than Ben. Momentum suggest no decision was yet made or finalized when Dan suggested and steered the conversation back to Ben.


Only a lunk head like Cowher would value a fat tackle over a franchise QB.

Cowher should be smart enough on his own to realize that Ben should have been the pick. He shouldn't need 74 year old Dan Rooney to persuade the war room, thus changing the course of Steelers history.
Actually, according to Kevin Colbert, Bill was in the corner of selecting Ben, possibly all along. Nobody knows but we do know Bill was not opposed to but rather in favor of selecting Ben at some point or perhaps all the way in the process.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 03:43 PM
No one wanted Ben except for Dan you haters. :moon

Crash
03-01-2011, 03:46 PM
No one wanted Ben except for Dan you haters. :moon

Read what Rooney says in his book. He pretty much confirms it.

It's sad, you guys are so worried about me that you want to throw Dan Rooney under the bus after he made the best decision for this team in decades.

Crash
03-01-2011, 03:48 PM
Which means you dunce, that if Rooney didn't speak up? Ben isn't here.
Actually, according to Dan Rooney, momentum had swung in the room to players other than Ben. Momentum suggest no decision was yet made or finalized when Dan suggested and steered the conversation back to Ben.


Only a lunk head like Cowher would value a fat tackle over a franchise QB.

Cowher should be smart enough on his own to realize that Ben should have been the pick. He shouldn't need 74 year old Dan Rooney to persuade the war room, thus changing the course of Steelers history.
Actually, according to Kevin Colbert, Bill was in the corner of selecting Ben, possibly all along. Nobody knows but we do know Bill was not opposed to but rather in favor of selecting Ben at some point or perhaps all the way in the process.

Then why did they want Andrews until Mr. Rooney spoke up?

Keep sucking Cowher off 43. I'm sure he appreciates it.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 03:50 PM
Which means you dunce, that if Rooney didn't speak up? Ben isn't here.
Actually, according to Dan Rooney, momentum had swung in the room to players other than Ben. Momentum suggest no decision was yet made or finalized when Dan suggested and steered the conversation back to Ben.


Only a lunk head like Cowher would value a fat tackle over a franchise QB.

Cowher should be smart enough on his own to realize that Ben should have been the pick. He shouldn't need 74 year old Dan Rooney to persuade the war room, thus changing the course of Steelers history.
Actually, according to Kevin Colbert, Bill was in the corner of selecting Ben, possibly all along. Nobody knows but we do know Bill was not opposed to but rather in favor of selecting Ben at some point or perhaps all the way in the process.

Then why did they want Andrews until Mr. Rooney spoke up?

The actual quote in the book suggest momentum was going away from Ben but no decision had been finalized. Kevin Colbert's own words suggest Bill was championing the selection of Ben, against his and the scouts suggestions. In the end, Dan steered the conversation back to Ben and Bill agreed, and Kevin and the scouts followed, making the selection of Ben.

Crash
03-01-2011, 03:53 PM
The actual quote in the book suggest momentum was going away from Ben but no decision had been finalized.

And Wexell saying that late in the week before the draft word leaked that Andrews was going to be the pick?

You keep hugging Bills nuts. I'll deal in facts.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 04:00 PM
The actual quote in the book suggest momentum was going away from Ben but no decision had been finalized.

And Wexell saying that late in the week before the draft word leaked that Andrews was going to be the pick?

You keep hugging Bills nuts. I'll deal in facts.

Wexell saying anything late in the week about who would be the selection at #11, without knowing the first ten picks, is mere speculation. There are a lot of misinformation put out there around draft time. Speculation you have chosen to believe because it furthers your agenda.

Since you like facts, here's a fact for you. You commonly refer to Jim Wexell as a liar, thief and hack, yet when the agenda fit, used him as a reference. That's a funny fact.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 04:01 PM
Damn... you mean we leaked who we were going to pick and didn't end up picking him?

That has NEVER happened before :roll:

Crash
03-01-2011, 04:03 PM
All media are hacks. He is a thief too. He also has anger issues and the minute he assaulted Mark Madden in Heinz Field he no longer should be allowed in the building.

But he also has good sources in the Steelers office.

Fine, don't use Wexell. Mr. Rooney himself confirms what everyone already knows. Without his speaking up? Ben isn't a Steeler.

Crash
03-01-2011, 04:05 PM
Damn... you mean we leaked who we were going to pick and didn't end up picking him?

Only because Mr. Rooney pulled rank and saved their a$ses.

Thank God.

Blockhead
03-01-2011, 04:05 PM
Fine, don't use Wexell. Mr. Rooney himself confirms what everyone already knows. Without his speaking up? Ben isn't a Steeler.

Can you please show a link to that quote? The only quote I have read does not say that. Thank you.

feltdizz
03-01-2011, 04:25 PM
Damn... you mean we leaked who we were going to pick and didn't end up picking him?

Only because Mr. Rooney pulled rank and saved their a$ses.

Thank God.

You do realize all these guys worked for the same team at the time?

Crash
03-01-2011, 04:30 PM
Damn... you mean we leaked who we were going to pick and didn't end up picking him?

Only because Mr. Rooney pulled rank and saved their a$ses.

Thank God.

You do realize all these guys worked for the same team at the time?

And? The Chief owned the team. He and Chuck Noll wanted Dan Marino (Noll watched Marino at a private TRS workout and raved). Art Jr. however said that they had Bradshaw for three more years and they didn't need to draft a QB.

Captain Lemming
03-03-2011, 03:02 PM
Because people are obsessed with calling me out.

Which is why this thread was created.

:moon

This thread was about correcting a lie you have typed hundreds, if not thousands, of times over the last few years.

The truth has now been shown and your words have now been proven incorrect. Cowher was much in favor of selecting Ben. He, like most if not all NFL teams would have preferred Philip Rivers but he was previously selected, removing him as an option.

Everyone knows you hated the decade and a half of Steelers football Cowher coached but no need to make up lies to further prove it.

Not one who normally defends Crash, and I 100 percent disagree crash and agree with Blockhead on this topic BUT:

It you aren't 43 or some other long time Crash foe, there is no way you make this post as someone who just showed up as "Blockhead".
You are busted dude. :lol:

No crime in that, just own up to it.

Otherwise, you are correct anyway, so make your claim to calling it was back.

Captain Lemming
03-03-2011, 03:26 PM
The actual quote in the book suggest momentum was going away from Ben but no decision had been finalized.

And Wexell saying that late in the week before the draft word leaked that Andrews was going to be the pick?

You keep hugging Bills nuts. I'll deal in facts.

According to Y0U Wexell said;

"Rooney told them that he wasn’t going to meddle and tell them whom to draft. He just told them that he’d once passed on a franchise quarterback (Dan Marino) and it was one of the most difficult football decisions with which he ever had to live. Whether Rooney had a direct impact or not, the Steelers that day drafted quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the first round."




It is funny that you are more sure that Rooney was the sole reason we drafted Ben than the very source of your info..

According to this all Rooney did was give them feedback for them to "consider" and still leave the decision up to his "experts".

He never pulled an AL DAVIS.

Rooney might have convinced Cowher who might have been split between Andrews and Ben, and conceded previously to the scouting department who favored Andrews.

Persuaded by Rooneys comments, Ben convinces the room to pick Ben.

According to Colbert, had Ben not done this, they world have picked Andrew, regardless of what was suggested by Rooney.

You are wrong Crash, admit it.

Crash
03-03-2011, 03:34 PM
According to this all Rooney did was give them feedback for them to "consider" and still leave the decision up to his "experts".

Please. When the Rooney's speak? You listen and do what they tell you to do, no matter how the message from them is delivered. If you honestly don't think his "intention" was to get them to draft Ben you are a fool.

Bottom line? If Dan Rooney doesn't walk into that $%^&* war room, Ben Roethlisberger is a Buffalo Bill. And that my friend is a fact.

Don't worry about me, you should be thanking Rooney for pointing them in the right direction.

ScoreKeeper
03-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Why continue this? No matter what anyone writes, they cannot re-write history and the simple fact that Rooney is the reason we drafted Ben.

By Rooney saying he steered the discussion towards Ben was a gentle way of saying we are taking Ben. What did you expect him to say.."I walked in and told them all they were bat **** crazy for looking at that fat ass tackle and there is no way we are not drafting Ben"?

Please.

Twist and spin all yinz want; swing from the sack of Cowher. But the fact is he did not want Ben and the best thing he did for this team was to pack up his nutless sack and head to NC.

Crash
03-03-2011, 03:46 PM
It is funny that you are more sure that Rooney was the sole reason we drafted Ben than the very source of your info..

Um, Wexell is not the very source of my info. He was one of many who have stated things about the 2004 draft.

It's funny, you clowns are using ONE QUOTE seven years later, and ignoring YEARS of Pittsburgh media in print, and on TV/radio who agree with MY version.

Captain Lemming
03-03-2011, 04:04 PM
According to this all Rooney did was give them feedback for them to "consider" and still leave the decision up to his "experts".

Please. When the Rooney's speak? You listen and do what they tell you to do, no matter how the message from them is delivered. If you honestly don't think his "intention" was to get them to draft Ben you are a fool.

Bottom line? If Dan Rooney doesn't walk into that $%^&* war room, Ben Roethlisberger is a Buffalo Bill. And that my friend is a fact.

Don't worry about me, you should be thanking Rooney for Rooney pointing them in the right direction.

No doubt, Rooney "pointing them in the right direction" is a fact. No one argues that. Without Rooneys in put perhaps Ben is a Bill.

But your flawed contention that Cowher resents Ben because Rooney forced the pick against his will, has been proven WRONG based on Colbert, comments.

Cowher at some point became convinced that they should pick Ben, AND ARGUED the case FOR BEN. Colberts comments clearly imply that had BC not made the case FOR Ben, they would NOT have taken him.

Rooney may have got the ball rolling, but by the time the draft rolled around, Ben was the guy BC wanted to draft. His persuasively arguing the case for Ben confirms it.

Crash
03-03-2011, 04:16 PM
Go watch Cowher's interview after Ben was picked and you tell me if you think he's happy with it?

He didn't want him. Period.

Captain Lemming
03-03-2011, 04:21 PM
It is funny that you are more sure that Rooney was the sole reason we drafted Ben than the very source of your info..

Um, Wexell is not the very source of my info. He was one of many who have stated things about the 2004 draft.

It's funny, you clowns are using ONE QUOTE seven years later, and ignoring YEARS of Pittsburgh media in print, and on TV/radio who agree with MY version.

I am using "one quote". That is hilarious. :lol:
I am using a quote that YOU brought to this argument to bolster your point.

"I" am ignoring nothing.
I am pointing out the clear flaws in YOUR weak argument.

Here I quote YOU:


So you are calling Dan Rooney a liar? He said the same thing in a 2007 book that *I* was saying in 2004!

Btw, here's Wexell in a 2009 bit from another board:

Let’s use late April, 2004 as the beginning of this philosophical shift. During the draft process that year, Russ Grimm fell in love with massive guard-tackle Shawn Andrews, and Cowher came to agree with his line coach. Word leaked late in the week that Andrews was the Steelers’ draft target with the 11th pick, but on draft day team president Dan Rooney walked into the war room to speak to Cowher and Director of Football Operations Kevin Colbert.

Rooney told them that he wasn’t going to meddle and tell them whom to draft. He just told them that he’d once passed on a franchise quarterback (Dan Marino) and it was one of the most difficult football decisions with which he ever had to live. Whether Rooney had a direct impact or not, the Steelers that day drafted quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the first round. In the third round they drafted another massive tackle, Max Starks.

ScoreKeeper
03-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Ben and Cowher never had a good relationship. If not for Tommy and Batch getting hurt, Ben never sees the field his rookie year, when he was the best QB on the roster, or probably the year after when he got us to the the SB.

Why do I keep feeding this very tired argument? :HeadBanger

Captain Lemming
03-03-2011, 04:31 PM
Ben and Cowher never had a good relationship. If not for Tommy and Batch getting hurt, Ben never sees the field his rookie year, when he was the best QB on the roster, or probably the year after when he got us to the the SB.

Why do I keep feeding this very tired argument? :HeadBanger

Very possible. That is not about Ben, it was about his being a rookie.

Crash
03-03-2011, 06:41 PM
Cowher wouldn't have played Ben if he had his way. Just like when he sabotaged the FO's choice in Jim Miller and then started Tomczak all year because Cowher preferred Kordell.

feltdizz
03-03-2011, 06:47 PM
Cowher wouldn't have played Ben if he had his way. Just like when he sabotaged the FO's choice in Jim Miller and then started Tomczak all year because Cowher preferred Kordell.

That's probably true.... but it's probably because Ben didn't know the whole playbook and was a rookie.

birtikidis
03-03-2011, 06:48 PM
I really think the truth lies somewhere in between what crash thinks and what was said. I think if Rivers was there then and so was Ben, we probably would have taken Rivers. And honestly, as much as a I love Ben, I wouldn't have argued with the pick. Rivers is a pretty good qb, at least statistically. I think the Andrews talk was because EVERYONE expected the Browns to take Ben. At least I did.

feltdizz
03-03-2011, 08:15 PM
I really think the truth lies somewhere in between what crash thinks and what was said. I think if Rivers was there then and so was Ben, we probably would have taken Rivers. And honestly, as much as a I love Ben, I wouldn't have argued with the pick. Rivers is a pretty good qb, at least statistically. I think the Andrews talk was because EVERYONE expected the Browns to take Ben. At least I did.

Colbert, Rooney and Cowher know the truth...

I don't think anyone outside of Miami of Ohio fans and Ben's family would have been upset if we took Rivers over Ben on draft day.

Blockhead
03-03-2011, 09:39 PM
Why continue this? No matter what anyone writes, they cannot re-write history and the simple fact that Rooney is the reason we drafted Ben.


The simple fact is Rooney steered them to reconsider and Bill was persistent for Ben's selection.

Blockhead
03-03-2011, 09:40 PM
I really think the truth lies somewhere in between what crash thinks and what was said. I think if Rivers was there then and so was Ben, we probably would have taken Rivers. And honestly, as much as a I love Ben, I wouldn't have argued with the pick. Rivers is a pretty good qb, at least statistically. I think the Andrews talk was because EVERYONE expected the Browns to take Ben. At least I did.

Colbert, Rooney and Cowher know the truth...

I don't think anyone outside of Miami of Ohio fans and Ben's family would have been upset if we took Rivers over Ben on draft day.
Very true. Most, if not all felt Rovers was better and many or most still feel that way.

RuthlessBurgher
03-03-2011, 10:33 PM
I really think the truth lies somewhere in between what crash thinks and what was said. I think if Rivers was there then and so was Ben, we probably would have taken Rivers. And honestly, as much as a I love Ben, I wouldn't have argued with the pick. Rivers is a pretty good qb, at least statistically. I think the Andrews talk was because EVERYONE expected the Browns to take Ben. At least I did.

Colbert, Rooney and Cowher know the truth...

I don't think anyone outside of Miami of Ohio fans and Ben's family would have been upset if we took Rivers over Ben on draft day.
Very true. Most, if not all felt Rovers was better and many or most still feel that way.

I preferred Ben because, although Rivers was uber-productive for a major college program, Rivers' three-quarter delivery scared the bejesus out of me. I'm not saying that I would have been upset if we took him (I remember commenting at the time that if we ended up with Rivers, Jeff Reed's number would be forceably removed from him, because if there was a QB named Rivers playing in Pittsburgh, there is no way that he would wear any number except for 3). I considered Manning and Roethlisberger to be top 10 worthy at that time, while I considered Rivers to be top 20 worthy (honestly, at #11, if all these guys were available, I would have taken Eli or Ben ahead of DeAngelo Hall or Dunta Robinson, but I would have taken either of those corners ahead of Rivers...D'Oh! I would have taken Rivers over Shawn Andrews, though).

Blockhead
03-03-2011, 11:34 PM
Yeah, I didn't much care. I like Rivers a little more based on what he had done in college but I was sold on Ben after watching his bowl game. I would have gladly taken either one of them.

I doubt any of the "Rivers sucks" crowd had Ben above Rivers in 2004. They may like to say they did but I doubt it's true.

birtikidis
03-04-2011, 12:55 AM
I was on Ben's bandwagon pretty early, but I was intrigued by how good Rivers could be. It's just really hard to gauge those small school qb's. I about crapped when he landed at our pick though. I never thought he'd make it out of the top 10.

hawaiiansteel
03-04-2011, 01:23 AM
I was on Ben's bandwagon pretty early, but I was intrigued by how good Rivers could be. It's just really hard to gauge those small school qb's. I about crapped when he landed at our pick though. I never thought he'd make it out of the top 10.


I wanted one of the following 3 QBs to drop to us: Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers or Eli Manning.

we ended up with the best one... :tt2

Crash
03-04-2011, 01:23 AM
Why continue this? No matter what anyone writes, they cannot re-write history and the simple fact that Rooney is the reason we drafted Ben.


The simple fact is Rooney steered them to reconsider and Bill was persistent for Ben's selection.

If Bill was persistent Rooney would have no reason to bring him up. Doing what Dan Rooney suggested doesn't mean Bill gets credit, Dan does.

Crash
03-04-2011, 01:25 AM
Very true. Most, if not all felt Rovers was better and many or most still feel that way.

Fantasy geeks do. However there success on the field says otherwise 43.

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 02:30 PM
Why continue this? No matter what anyone writes, they cannot re-write history and the simple fact that Rooney is the reason we drafted Ben.


The simple fact is Rooney steered them to reconsider and Bill was persistent for Ben's selection.

If Bill was persistent Rooney would have no reason to bring him up. Doing what Dan Rooney suggested doesn't mean Bill gets credit, Dan does.


READ SLOWLY AND DIGEST.
"Rooney steered them to reconsider"

This mean that YES Rooney did "steer" the conversation in that direction. Nobody says he does not get big props for that.

When this is followed by, "Bill was persistent for Ben's selection" the clear implication is that this "FOLLOWS" Rooneys steering the conversation that way.

Based on Colberts clear comments, "Bill was persistent for Ben's selection". Based on Rooneys comments this must have been after Rooney gave his input.

Crash, if it was a matter of simply "they had no choice" because they feared crossing the big bad boss, why did Colbert give BC props for convincing the rest to go with Ben?

Regardless of Rooney's "suggestion" Colbert implied that were it not for BC, they still would have picked someone else.

Why would Colbert lie and give props at all to BC, which only makes him look stupid by comparison to BC and would not make Rooney too happy if BC did not actually take Rooneys side and persuade the rest like Colbert said.

I dont care who went up and down the charts before the draft, or who was discussed over Ben at some point.

If Colbert is telling the truth, AT THE POINT OF THE DRAFT, BC absolutely wanted to pick Ben over a lineman. This is not a begrudging pick, but it was what he wanted.

I really dont care about the Rivers versus Ben stuff cause it doesnt matter. The discussion was based on an assumption that Ben might be there, and Rivers was unlikely.

Had it been Rivers Rooneys point was still valid and we take him. Who cares if River was Cowhers fav, we had no shot at him anyway.

The point was that a potential franchise QB was a better pick than an olineman. There was three and one was likely to fall to us.

Rooneys role was crucial, but he delegates the selection to his experts. Apparently ONLY BC was persuaded and BC closed the deal with the rest.

The point is not to deny Rooney credit, it is to DESTROY your myth that BC did not like the pick.

Crash
03-07-2011, 02:55 PM
Based on Colberts clear comments, "Bill was persistent for Ben's selection". Based on Rooneys comments this must have been after Rooney gave his input.

Which means all Bill really did was listen to what his boss suggested/told him to do.

Which means once again, that DAN ROONEY, and not Bill Cowher, gets the credit for bringing Ben to Pittsburgh.

If Cowher was behind the Ben pick Rooney would have had nothing to "steer" in the war room.


why did Colbert give BC props for convincing the rest to go with Ben?

Do you think Colbert is going to admit during SB week that he and his coach didn't want to draft Ben? If the Steelers aren't in Dallas that week, this "version" does not come up.


Had it been Rivers Rooneys point was still valid and we take him.

Had it been Rives, Rooney wouldn't have had to speak up because thats who Cowher wanted.


The point is not to deny Rooney credit, it is to DESTROY your myth that BC did not like the pick.

He didn't. Again, if Rooney does not speak up, Ben's not a Steeler. That's an iron clad fact boys. Everyone who covers this team knows it.

Rooney flexed his muscles, his EMPLOYEE then did what he was "told" to do.

You guys have your noses so far up Cowher's as$ and are so obsessed with proving me wrong that you want to throw Dan Rooney under the bus for saving this franchise from making the same misake they made in 1983 once again.

Sad.

Blockhead
03-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Read and understand the actual words of the quotes, not what you want to see written. Only until you do that and comprehend the actual words and their meanings, will you be able to have anything to base on fact and the truth.

As your current opinion stands, it has been proven to be completely false and absolute lies.

Crash
03-07-2011, 03:46 PM
Read and understand the actual words of the quotes, not what you want to see written. Only until you do that and comprehend the actual words and their meanings, will you be able to have anything to base on fact and the truth.

As your current opinion stands, it has been proven to be completely false and absolute lies.

Because of one quote? I have YEARS of quotes 43, and every alias you post on here as won't change that.

Go smoke your dope.

Blockhead
03-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Read and understand the actual words of the quotes, not what you want to see written. Only until you do that and comprehend the actual words and their meanings, will you be able to have anything to base on fact and the truth.

As your current opinion stands, it has been proven to be completely false and absolute lies.

Because of one quote? I have YEARS of quotes 43, and every alias you post on here as won't change that.

Go smoke your dope.
Is this type of behavior permitted by board rules?

Clearly, you are incapable of comprehending facts or debating in an adult like manner.

Have a nice day!

Crash
03-07-2011, 03:59 PM
Is this type of behavior permitted by board rules?

Clearly, you are incapable of comprehending facts or debating in an adult like manner.

Have a nice day!

Same old tired answer from 43.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 04:02 PM
[quote]Based on Colberts clear comments, "Bill was persistent for Ben's selection". Based on Rooneys comments this must have been after Rooney gave his input.

Which means all Bill really did was listen to what his boss suggested/told him to do.

Which means once again, that DAN ROONEY, and not Bill Cowher, gets the credit for bringing Ben to Pittsburgh.

If Cowher was behind the Ben pick Rooney would have had nothing to "steer" in the war room.


why did Colbert give BC props for convincing the rest to go with Ben?

Do you think Colbert is going to admit during SB week that he and his coach didn't want to draft Ben? If the Steelers aren't in Dallas that week, this "version" does not come up.


Had it been Rivers Rooneys point was still valid and we take him.

Had it been Rives, Rooney wouldn't have had to speak up because thats who Cowher wanted.


The point is not to deny Rooney credit, it is to DESTROY your myth that BC did not like the pick.

He didn't. Again, if Rooney does not speak up, Ben's not a Steeler. That's an iron clad fact boys. Everyone who covers this team knows it.

Rooney flexed his muscles, his EMPLOYEE then did what he was "told" to do.

You guys have your noses so far up Cowher's as$ and are so obsessed with proving me wrong that you want to throw Dan Rooney under the bus for saving this franchise from making the same misake they made in 1983 once again.

Sad.[/quote:2te1rflc]


What is SAD is your weak attempt to defend a POV that was so clearly proven wrong.

How does my saying more than once that Rooney "DESERVES PROPS" throw him under the bus? Pathetic Crash.

Read what is there Crash, dont invent stuff from nothing.

NOBODY SAYS COWHER WAS THEN FIRST TO SUGGEST WE DRAFT BEN.

Did he "listen to" Rooney? Yes, nobody argues that. Stop trying to argue a point we all know (yes we know that is th only way you can pretend to win :lol: PATHETIC indeed).

Rooney was right, but gave his experts the freedom nevertheless as is his way. Colbert and "the room was STILL "for" taking Andrews UNTIL Cowher convinced them otherwise. How can that be if they all were scared of Rooney? Cowher would not need to "convince" anybody.. Cowher alone was convince by Rooney and the far more persuasive Cowher convinced the rest.


Do you think Colbert is going to admit during SB week that he and his coach didn't want to draft Ben? If the Steelers aren't in Dallas that week, this "version" does not come up.

He implies HE STILL didnt want to draft Ben before Cowher convinced him. Colbert was basically admitting HE was wrong.

COLBERT IS THE PERSONNEL GUY. BC AS COACH HAS A BIG SAY TOO, BUT PERSONNEL IS COLBERT'S ONLY JOB. HE JUST ADMITTED ALMOST SCREWING UP THE BIGGEST PICK IN HIS LIFE IF BC DOES NOT CONVINCE HIM OTHERWISE.

AGAIN PLEASE CONVINCE US OF WHY COLBERT WOULD LIE ABOUT THIS?

WHY WOULD HE BRING THIS UP AT ALL IF IT WEREN'T TRUE?

YOUR TAKE IS BEYOND RIDICULOUS.

Crash
03-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Did he "listen to" Rooney? Yes, nobody argues that.

You guys are trying to give Cowher credit, and thus trying to say I was wrong.

If Cowher listened to Rooney and THEN picked Ben? Then I'm right. Period.

Like I said, go watch Cowher's LIVE INTERVIEW and you tell me if he seemed "happy" with the pick he supposedly "convinced" them to make?

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Read and understand the actual words of the quotes, not what you want to see written. Only until you do that and comprehend the actual words and their meanings, will you be able to have anything to base on fact and the truth.

As your current opinion stands, it has been proven to be completely false and absolute lies.

Because of one quote? I have YEARS of quotes 43, and every alias you post on here as won't change that.

Go smoke your dope.

Funny thing Crash is that NONE OF YOUR YEARS OF QUOTES from people IN THE ROOM contradict the rest of US.
What YOU READ INTO THOSE QUOTES is the problem.

YOUR POV DOES CONTRADICT COLBERT, and you are calling him a liar.

Me? I believe that Rooney and Colbert's accounts are easy to harmonize and neither need be lying.

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Did he "listen to" Rooney? Yes, nobody argues that.

You guys are trying to give Cowher credit, and thus trying to say I was wrong.

If Cowher listened to Rooney and THEN picked Ben? Then I'm right. Period.

Like I said, go watch Cowher's LIVE INTERVIEW and you tell me if he seemed "happy" with the pick he supposedly "convinced" them to make?

Crash, the issue is not whether he "listened" of course he did. The question is did he have the freedom (without undue pressure) to choose otherwise.

Colbert implied that "HE" (Colbert) would have taken Andrews, if not for BC. That says that YES, they had the option, and felt "free" to make it.

When they made the pick, Ben was BCs preferred choice. The fact that he had to persuade the room (that Rooney was right) proves it.

Crash
03-07-2011, 04:25 PM
When they made the pick, Ben was BCs preferred choice.

No, Ben was ROONEY'S preferred choice. All Cowher did was listen to what Rooney told him to do like any employee should.

Blockhead
03-07-2011, 04:32 PM
When they made the pick, Ben was BCs preferred choice.

No, Ben was ROONEY'S preferred choice. All Cowher did was listen to what Rooney told him to do like any employee should.
The the employees of the owners whould listen to them?

Rooney steered the conversation to take another look at Ben, in which they did, Bill leading the charge, and championing Ben as the selection.

Those are the facts. They suggest the scouts, Colbert, Cowher and whoever else has a vote, were leaning away from Ben. It does not suggest where Cowher's opinion or desire was before the "steering." We all know, based on the words of Colbert, his opinion was very much for Ben after Rooney "steered" the conversation. Given the history of Bill and his stubborness, it makes absolutely no sense that he simply changed his mind on a suggestion to take another look at Ben, unless you are simply trying to discredit a man you freely and openly admit you hate, which we all know is your true desire here.

You are not capable of admitting you were wrong and likely will never do so.

Crash
03-07-2011, 04:37 PM
There was no vote junkie boy. Cowher didn't want Ben. Rooney pulled rank and got him there. Cowher, Rooney's underling, then did what he was told to do.

Colbert's not going to throw Cowher under the bus when it's been rumored for years that if Cowher goes to another team that he intends to try and get Colbert to go with him.

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 05:19 PM
When they made the pick, Ben was BCs preferred choice.

No, Ben was ROONEY'S preferred choice. All Cowher did was listen to what Rooney told him to do like any employee should.

Is BC by your definition the ONLY good employee?
Why did Colbert and the rest need to be persuaded by BC at all?

If BC is not convinced Rooney is right, he doesnt to say jack squat to convince the others. There is no need, the decision is made already. If BC doesnt believe it, if the others have no choice, why does BC have to convince the rest?

Blockhead
03-07-2011, 05:26 PM
There was no vote junkie boy. Cowher didn't want Ben. Rooney pulled rank and got him there. Cowher, Rooney's underling, then did what he was told to do.

Colbert's not going to throw Cowher under the bus when it's been rumored for years that if Cowher goes to another team that he intends to try and get Colbert to go with him.
Again, namecalling?

As Rooney stated, momentum had swung away from Ben when he suggested they take another look at Ben. They did, with Bill championing Ben as the selection.

Facts! Those are it. What you and your Cowher hatred are suggesting, are made up conjecture. You're incapeable of rational thought and discussion.

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 05:27 PM
There was no vote junkie boy. Cowher didn't want Ben. Rooney pulled rank and got him there. Cowher, Rooney's underling, then did what he was told to do.

Colbert's not going to throw Cowher under the bus when it's been rumored for years that if Cowher goes to another team that he intends to try and get Colbert to go with him.

If it is a lie why bring it up at all? Saying NOTHING does not throw BC under the Bus.

If anything Colbert just throws HIMSELF under the bus, ensuring that his stock goes down with everybody BUT BC.

That would be stupid. Well at least to most people.

Clearly only a "genius" like you think it would be logical for Colbert to throw himself under the bus, disrespecting his CURRENT BOSS if it is false, for a "possible" job with BC that is likely his anyway if he wants it. :lol:

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 05:51 PM
As Rooney stated, momentum had swung away from Ben when he suggested they take another look at Ben. They did, with Bill championing Ben as the selection.

Facts! Those are it. What you and your Cowher hatred are suggesting, are made up conjecture. You're incapeable of rational thought and discussion.

Interesting facts Charlie Brown.

Crash, look closely at Rooney's words.

Clearly, Ben was ALREADY being discussed, perhaps had been a frontrunner at one point prior to Rooney making a case for Ben, in order for "momentum" to have "swung away" from Ben in the first place. Prior to that Ben HAD momentum already.

Far from your idea that everybody was anti-Ben some had opinions that went back and forth as the discussions were happening. It was close all along.

Clearly, Colbert felt strongly for Andrews all along, since BC needed to sway him.

Who does that leave, whose opinion was moved from Ben away from Ben and back to Ben? You know the answer.

Did Ben already have "momentum" at one point in the discussion that had "swung away" from him? Did Rooney merely steer momentum BACK to where it had been previously, implying that others had strong feelings "for" Ben? That is what he says.

Or did he force the pick on an a staff that hated the pick from the start?

Are you calling Rooney a liar too? :owned

ScoreKeeper
03-07-2011, 05:57 PM
My Goddness, this thread has reached the status of recreating dreams because the truth was lost a while ago.

Cowher "championing" the Ben pick. That's just rich. :lol: :lol:

You really have to love message boards. Dreams created. History rewrote. Innane thoughts read and believed by those a little less fortunite in the noodle department than a special olympics medal winner.

But hey, it's all good here on Fantasy Internet.

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 06:07 PM
My Goddness, this thread has reached the status of recreating dreams because the truth was lost a while ago.

Cowher "championing" the Ben pick. That's just rich. :lol: :lol:

You really have to love message boards. Dreams created. History rewrote. Innane thoughts read and believed by those a little less fortunite in the noodle department than a special olympics medal winner.

But hey, it's all good here on Fantasy Internet.

That is what Colbert said. He was in the room. You and I were not.

You are right about one thing though. The TRUTH is in the very first post. It proves that BC WANTED to draft Ben because in order for it to happen he had to convince others that we should do it.

Rooney made a case for Ben, BC backed his case and persuaded the rest. Were it not for Rooney Ben is not a Steeler true. But if BC did not agree, he would still not be a Steeler, since BC convinced the rest. Clearly Rooney delegated the final decision.

That is what Colbert said. He was in the room. You and I were not.

Blockhead
03-07-2011, 06:13 PM
My Goddness, this thread has reached the status of recreating dreams because the truth was lost a while ago.

Cowher "championing" the Ben pick. That's just rich. :lol: :lol:

You really have to love message boards. Dreams created. History rewrote. Innane thoughts read and believed by those a little less fortunite in the noodle department than a special olympics medal winner.

But hey, it's all good here on Fantasy Internet.

That is what Colbert said. He was in the room. You and I were not.

You are right about one thing though. The TRUTH is in the very first post. It proves that BC WANTED to draft Ben because in order for it to happen he had to convince others that we should do it.

Rooney made a case for Ben, BC backed his case and persuaded the rest. Were it not for Rooney Ben is not a Steeler true. But if BC did not agree, he would still not be a Steeler, since BC convinced the rest. Clearly Rooney delegated the final decision.

That is what Colbert said. He was in the room. You and I were not.
Rooney said he steered the conversation as momentum had swung away from Ben. That does not mean it wouldn't have swung back to Ben with further discussion. Clearly though, Bill was pushing for Ben. Bill did have final say so at some point, he could have used it and vetoed the scouts, management and Colbert.

Captain Lemming
03-07-2011, 06:24 PM
Bill did have final say so at some point, he could have used it and vetoed the scouts, management and Colbert.

How do you know this?

Blockhead
03-07-2011, 09:11 PM
Bill did have final say so at some point, he could have used it and vetoed the scouts, management and Colbert.

How do you know this?
Read it somewhere when he signed his last extension. He had final say in draft picks and they also said that it didn't mean a lot as they typically all ended up agreeing on picks anyway.

Crash
03-08-2011, 01:00 AM
If it is a lie why bring it up at all?

Because he was asked during SB week.

Crash
03-08-2011, 01:05 AM
Rooney made a case for Ben, BC backed his case and persuaded the rest. Were it not for Rooney Ben is not a Steeler true.

Then everything else to stroke Cowher's ego is irrelevant and Dan Rooney gets the credit.

Sorry, I'm not giving Cowher credit because Dan Rooney pulled rank and removed Cowher's head from Shawn Andrews as$.

Flasteel
03-08-2011, 11:03 AM
Rooney made a case for Ben, BC backed his case and persuaded the rest. Were it not for Rooney Ben is not a Steeler true.

Then everything else to stroke Cowher's ego is irrelevant and Dan Rooney gets the credit.

Sorry, I'm not giving Cowher credit because Dan Rooney pulled rank and removed Cowher's head from Shawn Andrews as$.

11 pages later and you are still battling the truth.

Amazing.

"...To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character.”

Blockhead
03-08-2011, 11:52 AM
Cowher had final say on personell written into his contract. If he didn't want Ben, Ben wouldn't be here.

Crash
03-08-2011, 03:03 PM
Cowher had final say on personell written into his contract.

Absolutely 100% not true.

Blockhead
03-08-2011, 03:04 PM
Cowher had final say on personell written into his contract.

Absolutely 100% not true.
Link?

Crash
03-08-2011, 03:04 PM
11 pages later and you are still battling the truth.

Amazing.

I have far more proof that Cowher didn't want Ben than you do about your Peyton Manning "story".

Blockhead
03-08-2011, 03:05 PM
11 pages later and you are still battling the truth.

Amazing.

I have far more proof that Cowher didn't want Ben than you do about your Peyton Manning "story".
You have no proof, only speculation and hatred regarding Cowher. You ignore facts.

hawaiiansteel
03-08-2011, 03:07 PM
11 pages later and you are still battling the truth.

Amazing.

I have far more proof that Cowher didn't want Ben than you do about your Peyton Manning "story".


actually, zero = zero.

Crash
03-08-2011, 03:09 PM
You have no proof, only speculation and hatred regarding Cowher. You ignore facts.

I'm all about facts 43. You clowns take one quote and are trying to use that as how wrong I am.

Laughable.

Blockhead
03-08-2011, 03:16 PM
You have no proof, only speculation and hatred regarding Cowher. You ignore facts.

I'm all about facts 43. You clowns take one quote and are trying to use that as how wrong I am.

Laughable.
That statement is factually incorrect, as is your opinion on the 2004 draft.

Captain Lemming
03-12-2011, 03:54 AM
You have no proof, only speculation and hatred regarding Cowher. You ignore facts.

I'm all about facts 43. You clowns take one quote and are trying to use that as how wrong I am.

Laughable.

One quote from someone in the room trumps your ZIP Crash.

Colbert said BC persuaded others of the need to draft Ben.

YOU have yet to produce A SINGLE QUOTE from someone in the room said that BC never wanted to draft Ben.

You lose.

Crash
03-12-2011, 10:35 AM
You have no proof, only speculation and hatred regarding Cowher. You ignore facts.

I'm all about facts 43. You clowns take one quote and are trying to use that as how wrong I am.

Laughable.

One quote from someone in the room trumps your ZIP Crash.

Colbert said BC persuaded others of the need to draft Ben.

YOU have yet to produce A SINGLE QUOTE from someone in the room said that BC never wanted to draft Ben.

You lose.

Colbert's not going to admit on SB week that they didn't want Ben. That would make him look like a fool. I will take Rooney's words long before SB XLV was played.

Btw, you never addressed the point I made to you about the 2009 game at Cincy when they tried to ice the game playing the way YOU wanted, ie. running the ball.

We both know why.

You lose.

Funny, Cowher supposedly wanted to draft Ben, and yet he's NEVER come out and said it. Kind of hard to believe considering his ego, no?

Flasteel
03-12-2011, 11:29 AM
11 pages later and you are still battling the truth.

Amazing.

I have far more proof that Cowher didn't want Ben than you do about your Peyton Manning "story".

I can only laugh at the way your brain works. Here's what you said to the troll in the Hines Ward Double-talk thread:


You don't know what his actions were. You weren't there.

Well genius, I was there. In your own words this is something that would give someone insight or "proof". Oh, that's right...it doesn't support your current argument, so eye-witness accounts can only be counted on when they back your myopic thinking.

Again...you lose!

Crash
03-12-2011, 11:36 AM
Well genius, I was there.

So you say. I find it odd that this "event" hasn't been reported ANYWHERE.

You guys are all hell bent on "proof".

Hold yourselves to the same standard boys.

Flasteel
03-12-2011, 11:51 AM
Well genius, I was there.

So you say. I find it odd that this "event" hasn't been reported ANYWHERE.

You guys are all hell bent on "proof".

Hold yourselves to the same standard boys.

Yeah...I say. It was never reported, because the Sarasota PD let him walk. I didn't stay for the whole ordeal, but a buddy of mine on the force told me he was detained for 45 minutes and let go. The cop who let him go apparently got in some type of trouble for doing so.

If you think I'm going to come on here and make up something like this, then I don't know what to say Crash. Must be all the crazy stories I spin on here all of the time or the lies I keep getting caught in. :)

Crash
03-12-2011, 12:22 PM
Well genius, I was there.

So you say. I find it odd that this "event" hasn't been reported ANYWHERE.

You guys are all hell bent on "proof".

Hold yourselves to the same standard boys.

Yeah...I say. It was never reported, because the Sarasota PD let him walk. I didn't stay for the whole ordeal, but a buddy of mine on the force told me he was detained for 45 minutes and let go. The cop who let him go apparently got in some type of trouble for doing so.

If you think I'm going to come on here and make up something like this, then I don't know what to say Crash. Must be all the crazy stories I spin on here all of the time or the lies I keep getting caught in. :)

Nice diatribe. But I still see no proof.

I have Dan Rooney's own words, and somehow that's not good enough.

feltdizz
03-12-2011, 12:32 PM
FlaSteel witnesses something with his own eyes and it's fantasy but Crash reads between the lines of a few quotes and has all the facts.

The funny thing is his story puts Peyton in a negative light... but since Crash didn't read about it on the internets it can't be true.


TIGER BLOOD! 8)

Crash
03-12-2011, 12:43 PM
What reading between the lines? Rooney stated his football people were focused on Andrews, and then he spoke up about Ben.

That's as cut and dried as it gets felt.

Flasteel
03-12-2011, 12:44 PM
Well genius, I was there.

So you say. I find it odd that this "event" hasn't been reported ANYWHERE.

You guys are all hell bent on "proof".

Hold yourselves to the same standard boys.

Yeah...I say. It was never reported, because the Sarasota PD let him walk. I didn't stay for the whole ordeal, but a buddy of mine on the force told me he was detained for 45 minutes and let go. The cop who let him go apparently got in some type of trouble for doing so.

If you think I'm going to come on here and make up something like this, then I don't know what to say Crash. Must be all the crazy stories I spin on here all of the time or the lies I keep getting caught in. :)

Nice diatribe. But I still see no proof.

I have Dan Rooney's own words, and somehow that's not good enough.

Dan Rooney's words do nothing to contradict what Colbert stated...NOTHING. The problem in your mind seems to be that you cannot accept the fact that you are wrong. In this thread, you have accused Colbert of lying (for absolutely no reason...and to his own detriment) to protect the image you have of Cowher wanting Andrews over Roethlisberger. You want to stack up Colbert's statement next to Rooney's, make them incompatible, and in turn it paints the former, the liar you need him to be.

Nice try Crash, but we all enjoy not having to view the world through your narrow mind and can see this situation for what it plainly is. You have backed yourself into the smallest of corners and there is absolutely no where left to go. You are creating pure absurdity to hold on to something that just isn't true.

I'm not suggesting you should care what other posters think of you, but I'm sure I speak for the vast majority when I say that we would all have a lot more respect for you, if you could simply admit that you are wrong.

Crash
03-12-2011, 01:01 PM
Dan Rooney's words do nothing to contradict what Colbert stated...NOTHING.

Cowher and his people wanted nothing to do with Ben. If Rooney doesn't step in, Ben isn't here. Period.

Like I said, Cowher supposedly led the charge to pick him, and yet he's never stated it. That's odd considering his ego.

Go watch Cowher on ESPN after the pick was made, he didn't look happy at all. He looked like someone who didn't get what he wanted.

For no reason? All Colbert's doing is protecting the image of the same man who is rumored to want Colbert in his FO should he return to coaching. Like I said, how would Colbert look during SB week if he admitted what everyone already knows? That if not for Rooney's speaking up Ben isn't in Pittsburgh?

feltdizz
03-12-2011, 01:05 PM
What reading between the lines? Rooney stated his football people were focused on Andrews, and then he spoke up about Ben.

That's as cut and dried as it gets felt.

True.. but other quotes have been made... other people were in the room and they get to tell their story just like Rooney did.

You have an agenda to keep Cowher in a negative light and any reports or stories told by people in the room that state otherwise aren't accurate.

nice sig by the way

ScoreKeeper
03-12-2011, 02:20 PM
Cowher was a ****ing drooling retard. He cost us AFCC games, he did not once contribute to winning one. Hell, a second year QB had to tell him to play to win so his dumb ass would not go turtle. Cowher disliked Ben, did not want to draft Ben, and thosae are the facts.

Without Rooney, we don't have two more rings.

But yinz can continue to write your innane ramblings if it makes your heart swell with pride for "ol Billy Boy.

Blockhead
03-12-2011, 02:40 PM
Yes, Cowher sucks. He's responsible for all of our losses, none of our wins and had no success as a head coach.

The team around Ben is pathetic. Ben is the only reason we win anything. Period. The defense sucks, the wr's suck, the OL sucks, the Rb's suck. It's all Ben people. The rest of the team was pathetic before Ben arrived and will instantly be pathetic when he leaves.

Without him, they're going to fold the franchise as it will be no point to continue.

Flasteel
03-12-2011, 03:49 PM
Cowher was a bad word drooling retard. He cost us AFCC games, he did not once contribute to winning one. Hell, a second year QB had to tell him to play to win so his dumb bad word would not go turtle. Cowher disliked Ben, did not want to draft Ben, and thosae are the facts.

Without Rooney, we don't have two more rings.

But yinz can continue to write your innane ramblings if it makes your heart swell with pride for "ol Billy Boy.

Scorekeeper = Crash? Hmmm...

How pathetic would it be to create an alternate screen name to make it appear as if someone else agrees with you? After all, I believe there are only "2 people" in this entire thread who still believe Cowher wanted Andrews. The similar writing styles and inane babbling also make me wonder.

Crash
03-12-2011, 03:51 PM
Nope...nice try though.

Blockhead
03-12-2011, 03:53 PM
Cowher was a bad word drooling retard. He cost us AFCC games, he did not once contribute to winning one. Hell, a second year QB had to tell him to play to win so his dumb bad word would not go turtle. Cowher disliked Ben, did not want to draft Ben, and thosae are the facts.

Without Rooney, we don't have two more rings.

But yinz can continue to write your innane ramblings if it makes your heart swell with pride for "ol Billy Boy.

Scorekeeper = Crash? Hmmm...

How pathetic would it be to create an alternate screen name to make it appear as if someone else agrees with you? After all, I believe there are only "2 people" in this entire thread who still believe Cowher wanted Andrews. The similar writing styles and inane babbling also make me wonder.
I've thought the same thing. Crash has multiple screennames on Scout and stillernation as well.

Flasteel
03-12-2011, 03:55 PM
Nope...nice try though.

My bad. I know that you could never be the same person...I just found all the proof I need:


Mark Madden is an attention whore who has feuded with Hines Ward in the past...this was just another chance for Madden to get in another cheap shot.
ever since Madden suggested the Steelers should sign Pacman Jones I have stopped listening to him. :wft
He needs to take his act back to wrestling. The guy spews crap to get ratings.

I guess you can take some comfort in knowing you are not the only one who is delusional. :Cheers

NJ-STEELER
03-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Cowher was a bad word drooling retard. He cost us AFCC games, he did not once contribute to winning one. Hell, a second year QB had to tell him to play to win so his dumb bad word would not go turtle. Cowher disliked Ben, did not want to draft Ben, and thosae are the facts.

Without Rooney, we don't have two more rings.

But yinz can continue to write your innane ramblings if it makes your heart swell with pride for "ol Billy Boy.

Scorekeeper = Crash? Hmmm...

How pathetic would it be to create an alternate screen name to make it appear as if someone else agrees with you? After all, I believe there are only "2 people" in this entire thread who still believe Cowher wanted Andrews. The similar writing styles and inane babbling also make me wonder.
I've thought the same thing. Crash has multiple screennames on Scout and stillernation as well.

http://archuletafanscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Irony.jpg

ScoreKeeper
03-13-2011, 11:41 AM
Nope...nice try though.

My bad. I know that you could never be the same person...I just found all the proof I need:


Mark Madden is an attention whore who has feuded with Hines Ward in the past...this was just another chance for Madden to get in another cheap shot.
ever since Madden suggested the Steelers should sign Pacman Jones I have stopped listening to him. :wft
He needs to take his act back to wrestling. The guy spews crap to get ratings.

I guess you can take some comfort in knowing you are not the only one who is delusional. :Cheers
Ahh, you think you insulted me, however, I feel very greatful that I am in no way agreeable to you.

Flasteel
03-13-2011, 12:20 PM
Nope...nice try though.

My bad. I know that you could never be the same person...I just found all the proof I need:


Mark Madden is an attention whore who has feuded with Hines Ward in the past...this was just another chance for Madden to get in another cheap shot.
ever since Madden suggested the Steelers should sign Pacman Jones I have stopped listening to him. :wft
He needs to take his act back to wrestling. The guy spews crap to get ratings.

I guess you can take some comfort in knowing you are not the only one who is delusional. :Cheers
Ahh, you think you insulted me, however, I feel very greatful that I am in no way agreeable to you.

Indeed. :Cheers

The Sodfather
03-14-2011, 08:04 AM
I can guarantee you for a fact Crash and Scorekeeper are not the same person.

Just bring up Pitt and Penn St. football and see what happens. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chadman
03-14-2011, 08:46 AM
No need...Chadman has an inkling that this kind of thread will be a thing of the past...

Captain Lemming
03-14-2011, 06:57 PM
Btw, you never addressed the point I made to you about the 2009 game at Cincy when they tried to ice the game playing the way YOU wanted, ie. running the ball.

We both know why.


Yes, we both know why I feel no need to be distracted by chasing some old argument to throw me of the scent of the kill.

I know that this is what do to DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE ARGUMENT AT HAND.

It tells me you KNOW your argument is WEAK.

You go back to this EVERY TIME you are losing (take note people he does that to YOU too when he is wrong).

Your method is to start someone on another course when you are cornered. Not goona take the bait dude. :)

Nobody, not Rooney, not Colbert, not Cowher has EVER said BC did not want Ben when we drafted him. That is fact.

Only one person has EVER said ANYTHING about BCs opinion specifically and he said BC convince HIM that we should draft BEN.

So go ahead Crash. Tell us how BCs "expression" tells you all you need to know, accuse Colbert of lying without proof, or better yet, drum up old arguments about Cincy in 2009.

As far as I'm concerned, it is as good as admitting defeat. :lol:

Captain Lemming
03-14-2011, 07:09 PM
Said to Crash:

"nice sig by the way"

What a find.

Lost in the craziness of his content, is the fact that he has an awesome sig.

I have to agree. Thanks Dizz for pointng it out :lol:

Flasteel
03-14-2011, 08:00 PM
Btw, you never addressed the point I made to you about the 2009 game at Cincy when they tried to ice the game playing the way YOU wanted, ie. running the ball.

We both know why.
Yes, we both know why I feel no need to be distracted by chasing some old argument to throw me of the scent of the kill.

I was thinking along these exact same lines. He's not going to run from this and I'm glad to see others aren't willing to let the scent trail die either. :lol:

Admit you are wrong Crash!!

Who do you think you are...the Fonz?

http://richhillenjr.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/what-would-fonzie-do1.jpg

Captain Lemming
03-14-2011, 08:05 PM
Btw, you never addressed the point I made to you about the 2009 game at Cincy when they tried to ice the game playing the way YOU wanted, ie. running the ball.

We both know why.
Yes, we both know why I feel no need to be distracted by chasing some old argument to throw me of the scent of the kill.

I was thinking along these exact same lines. He's not going to run from this and I'm glad to see others aren't willing to let the scent trail die either. :lol:

You need to just shadup and prove to us your bogus claims about Peyton. THAT is what you need to do. :wink: :lol: