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hawaiiansteel
02-19-2011, 03:03 AM
http://cdn.babble.com/famecrawler/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ben-roethlisberger-suspension.jpg


I know this truth...

Ben Roethlisberger deserves credit for handling his four-game suspension in 2010, just like he deserved blame for putting himself in that position to begin with. And the truth is that his use of that time -- getting individual work in -- could wind up benefitting his play for years to come.

That's coming from the coach, George Whitfield, who had Roethlisberger for that month away.

"Quarterbacks, especially at Ben's level, spend so much time working on the offense, working on game concepts, working on the entire ship," Whitfield said. "They rarely get a chance to work on the cockpit, so to speak, and go over those fundamentals and mechanics. If you don't do that on a regular basis, you can kind of drift away.

"Those four weeks was really about him, and that was the best use of his time to improve himself as a player. Then to come back, like he did, you're more of an asset upon your return."

Whitfield and Roethlisberger tried to simulate the Steelers' schedule the best they could during that time, practicing when the team practiced, watching film when the team watch film, breaking when the team broke, to mirror the process and create a seamless transition back to the team.

But the work was most certainly different.

Whitfield says the focus was on Roethlisberger being more efficient in getting the ball out on time, being better at bringing the ball back up in scramble situations to become more consistent with his launch point, and being more compact with his footwork in the pocket. And the coach could see the strides in Roethlisberger's 15 games (playoffs included) this year.

"It's his consistency," Whitfield said. "It's just how organized and consistent he was in terms of playing. There are times, especially during that (Sunday) night Ravens game, when he does things that can't be coached, can't be duplicated. But in some games, it comes down to how you're doing things in the cockpit, little things you notice, where I'd be like, 'Nice shot there.'

"It's small nuts-and-bolts pieces, but I'd says his consistency mechanically was noticeable."

Now remember, this is a 28-year-old quarterback with two Super Bowl titles, three conference titles, four division titles, and five playoff berths in seven years.

And he could still be ascending? Whitfield thinks so.

"That may shock people," the coach said. "But there are areas where, I don't want to say he can be better, but I'll put it like this: It's scary how good he can be. There are still more weapons within Ben's game, more phases to his game, it's pretty scary. He came in that September with a lot of things we worked on, and he could hone in on those and make them second nature.

"I don't think the NFL has seen the best elements of Ben. You look at it, and Kobe Bryant is in his 13th year, and there are still things he's doing better in his 13th year than he did in his 8th. Ben's like that. He's still sharpening his game."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... open-minds (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e60726/article/cba-uncertainty-forces-personnel-folks-to-keep-open-minds)

Eich
02-19-2011, 09:37 AM
I know this: Ben is the best QB we've had since TB and is the main thing that finally got us over the hump to more rings.

I hope he does continue to improve. You have to wonder how much more bodily punishment he can take though. And I was hoping to see some of that improvement in the Super Bowl but that wasn't his best game. If Ben had been in his zone, I believe we win that game.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-19-2011, 11:39 AM
As long as Ben is 90% healthy, we have a shot against ANYONE!

aggiebones
02-19-2011, 12:18 PM
At some point to extend his career, he'll ned a top OL and become more of a pocket and timing passer.
More fun to watch now, but I think he can do both, thus extending his career longer than most believe.
.

SidSmythe
02-19-2011, 12:23 PM
One thing I can say about BEN is his deep ball has improved greatly this year.
With the emergence of Mike Wallace, this could be a scary thing.

I don't see BEN as having PINPOINT accuracy like AIKMAN had, but he can make any throw on the field now.

Crash
02-19-2011, 12:52 PM
Have to use Ben's skills and have to use the skill players around him also. Ben's continued "improvement" mostly hinges on the continued development of Wallace, Brown, and Sanders.

Crash
02-19-2011, 01:29 PM
And PS.....Get Spaeth and Johnson off the goddamn field!

SteelerNation1
02-19-2011, 03:18 PM
And I was hoping to see some of that improvement in the Super Bowl but that wasn't his best game. If Ben had been in his zone, I believe we win that game.
If Ben had hit wallace on the long one in the 3rd q, we'd still be celebrating our 7th. He didn't have to be in a zone, he just needed to be a little better.

Crash
02-19-2011, 03:41 PM
That was in the 3rd quarter, hard to say if they hold on and win with a ton of football left.

The Packers last drive was a constant reminder of why LeBeau drives me nuts. They blitz on 1st and second down, then after a penalty the Packers have a 3rd and 10. So instead of making Rodgers make a quick read and throw like he did on 2nd down, we as usual play scared and send three and drop 8 into coverage and he gets the first down anyway.

The biggest play of the season for our defense, and we rushed three friggin' men.

Scarletfire1970
02-19-2011, 04:24 PM
Had to laugh at the Kobe reference. Seriously, he couldn't think of anyone better to use as an example?

ScoreKeeper
02-19-2011, 04:56 PM
And I was hoping to see some of that improvement in the Super Bowl but that wasn't his best game. If Ben had been in his zone, I believe we win that game.
If Ben had hit wallace on the long one in the 3rd q, we'd still be celebrating our 7th. He didn't have to be in a zone, he just needed to be a little better.
And if Mendy does not fumble, and if there is not the huge penelty on the kick, and if there is not a route run wrong, and if there is not a pick, and if not...

If's suck.

And so does trying to get over this loss. :HeadBanger

Wolfhound45
02-19-2011, 06:17 PM
Thanks for posting hawaiiansteel. Excellent article. Good "behind the scenes" stuff on what happened while Ben was away during that four game suspension. Totally agree that Ben has the natural ability to take QB play in the NFL to a completely different level. He is that good.

Does he have the drive and passion? Still not sure.

Crash
02-20-2011, 01:41 AM
I would say anyone who didn't miss a snap after a broken nose and a fractured foot has all the "drive and passion" one needs.

Ben's competitive nature is why he's as tough as he is.

Wolfhound45
02-20-2011, 10:33 PM
Silence is golden.

:P

Crash
02-20-2011, 10:37 PM
I agree. So STFU and learn by reading this board instead of posting on it.

williar
02-21-2011, 12:50 AM
This thread is a joke! And many of these comments are too. Our offense for the most part continues to be a dysfunctional mess and it's reflective of our QB. Ben's stupid, careless, undisciplined play was on full display as his interceptions set the tone for our fate in XLV. It proved again that when the defense is unable to carry the load then most of the time we will lose the game. Ben has been in the league almost 10 years and still can't read defenses, looks confused, inconsistent, can't throw the deep ball, inaccurate with most of his passes, and takes unneccesary sacks. How can you miss so many wide open receivers in the game that matters the most. Yeah! I know! It was the receivers fault. This dude needs to spend some time in the film room and learn some fundamentals.

hawaiiansteel
02-21-2011, 01:06 AM
Ben has been in the league almost 10 years


Ben was drafted in the 2004 NFL Draft and during those 7 seasons we've gone to the Super Bowl three times, winning two of them. How many QBs can you name that have done better than that?

LordVile
02-21-2011, 01:17 AM
Ben has been in the league almost 10 years


Ben was drafted in the 2004 NFL Draft and during those 7 seasons we've gone to the Super Bowl three times, winning two of them. How many QBs can you name that have done better than that?
:Agree :Beer :tt1

Crash
02-21-2011, 01:31 AM
Yeah Ben is the reason Kemo got Ben's arm hit on pick #1 and Wallace was grabbed around the waist on pick #2.

Our great defense looks great against trash QBs and bad teams.

But when they play the top QBs most of what we saw in the SB is the norm because LeBeau plays with no balls and HOPES teams just makes their own mistakes instead of putting his play-makers in position to make plays. If he was going to have Troy line up within 5 yards of the LOS only three times all night what was the point of even dressing him?

Like I said, 3rd and 10 with all the momentum, and the great genius LeBeau rushed three men and had James friggin Harrison in pass coverage in the short middle on 3rd and ^&*( 10! .

If you are going to get beat, at least get beat with your best stuff but against good QBs we don't even try to force the issue. But they'll get 5 sacks against Jason Cambell's ilk and all we'll hear is how great they are and how LeBeau dials up the blitz's and all that PR crap.

In their last 5 quarters of SB play they have given up five TD passes. That's not good people.

Crash
02-21-2011, 03:09 AM
It's also amazing how a guy in his last 30 games can throw 47 TD passes and only 21 picks and yet can't read defenses, and has one of the best deep threats in the league and yet can't throw a deep ball?

Imagine how good Ben can be if he was actually any good at all?

Oviedo
02-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Yeah Ben is the reason Kemo got Ben's arm hit on pick #1 and Wallace was grabbed around the waist on pick #2.

Our great defense looks great against trash QBs and bad teams.

But when they play the top QBs most of what we saw in the SB is the norm because LeBeau plays with no balls and HOPES teams just makes their own mistakes instead of putting his play-makers in position to make plays. If he was going to have Troy line up within 5 yards of the LOS only three times all night what was the point of even dressing him?

Like I said, 3rd and 10 with all the momentum, and the great genius LeBeau rushed three men and had James friggin Harrison in pass coverage in the short middle on 3rd and ^&*( 10! .

If you are going to get beat, at least get beat with your best stuff but against good QBs we don't even try to force the issue. But they'll get 5 sacks against Jason Cambell's ilk and all we'll hear is how great they are and how LeBeau dials up the blitz's and all that PR crap.

In their last 5 quarters of SB play they have given up five TD passes. That's not good people.

Truth, but don't expect anything to change. Dom Capers has seemed to figure out in the 3-4 you can have DBs who can cover versus zone guys giving huge cushions.

Notleadpoisoned
02-21-2011, 10:03 AM
This thread is a joke! And many of these comments are too. Our offense for the most part continues to be a dysfunctional mess and it's reflective of our QB. Ben's stupid, careless, undisciplined play was on full display as his interceptions set the tone for our fate in XLV. It proved again that when the defense is unable to carry the load then most of the time we will lose the game. Ben has been in the league almost 10 years and still can't read defenses, looks confused, inconsistent, can't throw the deep ball, inaccurate with most of his passes, and takes unneccesary sacks. How can you miss so many wide open receivers in the game that matters the most. Yeah! I know! It was the receivers fault. This dude needs to spend some time in the film room and learn some fundamentals.
When I read negative posts like this one the first thing that comes to my mind is that 20 year cesspool of QB's we had to tolerate in between Bradshaw and Ben.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 10:34 AM
This thread is a joke! And many of these comments are too. Our offense for the most part continues to be a dysfunctional mess and it's reflective of our QB. Ben's stupid, careless, undisciplined play was on full display as his interceptions set the tone for our fate in XLV. It proved again that when the defense is unable to carry the load then most of the time we will lose the game. Ben has been in the league almost 10 years and still can't read defenses, looks confused, inconsistent, can't throw the deep ball, inaccurate with most of his passes, and takes unneccesary sacks. How can you miss so many wide open receivers in the game that matters the most. Yeah! I know! It was the receivers fault. This dude needs to spend some time in the film room and learn some fundamentals.
When I read negative posts like this one the first thing that comes to my mind is that 20 year cesspool of QB's we had to tolerate in between Bradshaw and Ben.

We have had some horrible QB's and still made it to 4 AFCCG's and a SB...

I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived. I don't think anyone wants to cut him or trade him... but it would be nice for him to show up in a SB before the 2 minute warning.

Crash
02-21-2011, 01:01 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

williar
02-21-2011, 01:58 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

With all due respect, some of us feel the exact opposite. You are giving Ben way too much credit. The steelers are a classy, perennial winning organization because of the way it has been ran (the Rooney Family) not because of Ben Roethlisberger. And Ben has challenged much of the steelers respected reputation due to his off the field antics.

I believe Ben is successful because he is a part of this organization, not the other way around. I don't believe for one second that Ben would have been a part of two super bowls if he was quarterbacking the browns, lions, raiders or any other lesser teams. Look at Carson Palmer. He's was way more talented then Ben coming out of college and was a stud his first few years in the league. But look at the toll being a part of the bengals dysfunctional organization has taken on him. Now, he's just a shell of himself. I believe there are more NFL organizations like the bengals than like the steelers.

Ben is fortunate to be a part of the steeler organization. He has been blessed to be on some talented teams where he didn't have to carry the load. As a result he has been elevated to some cult like status. On the other, the steelers organization knows how to win. Like Feltdizz said, we were successful without Ben. I think many of our playoff shortcomings had to do with Cowher. He had his share of problems coaching in big games. I don't think for one minute this team would not have continued to win even if Ben was on another team. There are other fish in the sea and the FO knows how to catch them.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 01:58 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

when did Lebeau arrive? :wink: I think he made a difference in the D.

you need to stop acting like the Steelers were this pathetic franchise who couldn't win before Ben arrived. We had some pretty good teams under Cowher, it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

cherry picking when we missed the playoffs? C'mon... just list the actual records from 94 to 2003.

I think there is 3 AFCCG's and a SB if I'm not mistaken. That isn't a bad track record.

I'm not knocking Ben... I just think it's ludicrous to knock the Steelers without Ben. We had decent teams we just had average QB play.

Crash
02-21-2011, 02:19 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

when did Lebeau arrive? :wink: I think he made a difference in the D.

you need to stop acting like the Steelers were this pathetic franchise who couldn't win before Ben arrived. We had some pretty good teams under Cowher, it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

cherry picking when we missed the playoffs? C'mon... just list the actual records from 94 to 2003.

I think there is 3 AFCCG's and a SB if I'm not mistaken. That isn't a bad track record.

I'm not knocking Ben... I just think it's ludicrous to knock the Steelers without Ben. We had decent teams we just had average QB play.

You mentioned the Browns, not me. I compared the Steelers of 1999-2003 to the 1999-2003 Browns.

Don't change the argument when your point got soundly defeated. :)

Crash
02-21-2011, 02:36 PM
Like Feltdizz said, we were successful without Ben.

We won no rings from 1983-2003 prior to Ben.

How many of those teams above had solid defenses? Solid running games?

Now how many of those teams were held back because their QBs couldn't get the job done?

You are being ignorant. If anything the Steelers own past proves my point.

They let good QBs go over the years, Dawson, Morrall, Jack Kemp, they also cut Johnny Unitas.

They won NOTHING for 40 years.

They then draft Bradshaw, they allow him the patience to grow, they didn't dump him at the first signs of trouble like they did the others.

They won four SBs in 10 seasons with him.

Then, they ignored the QB position minus trades for flops Todd Blackledge and David Woodley after they PASSED on Dan Marino in the draft. Even when a guy like eventual Hall of Famer Jim Kelly was BEGGING them to try and trade for him when the USFL was in trouble. They tried to get by with stop gaps and projects, it failed.

feltdizz mentions the 1995 AFC title team? Guess what? That was the ONLY TEAM in the first 10 years of Bill Cowher's career that had a TOP TEN PASSING TEAM, and it was the only time in 10 years that he went to a Super Bowl.

So much for running the ball and playing defense huh?

It's a QB driven league and it always has been. You could say the Steelers of 1983-2003 were an extended version of the 2000's Baltimore Ravens. How many teams have the Ravens had in this decade that featured good running games and solid defenses only to be held back by bad QB play?

That's not winning football, if anything it's not winning ENOUGH because the most important position on the team let you down.

Only in simple minded Pittsburgh would fans value defense and running games over the QB position, even after their own teams history makes that opinion basically worthless.

A perennial winning organization? This team was founded in 1933, not 1970 when Bradshaw arrived.

NJ-STEELER
02-21-2011, 03:00 PM
yeah

i guess some people here have a different definition of "winning football"

skyhawk
02-21-2011, 03:43 PM
Like Feltdizz said, we were successful without Ben.

We won no rings from 1983-2003 prior to Ben.

How many of those teams above had solid defenses? Solid running games?

Now how many of those teams were held back because their QBs couldn't get the job done?

You are being ignorant. If anything the Steelers own past proves my point.

They let good QBs go over the years, Dawson, Morrall, Jack Kemp, they also cut Johnny Unitas.

They won NOTHING for 40 years.

They then draft Bradshaw, they allow him the patience to grow, they didn't dump him at the first signs of trouble like they did the others.

They won four SBs in 10 seasons with him.

Then, they ignored the QB position minus trades for flops Todd Blackledge and David Woodley after they PASSED on Dan Marino in the draft. Even when a guy like eventual Hall of Famer Jim Kelly was BEGGING them to try and trade for him when the USFL was in trouble. They tried to get by with stop gaps and projects, it failed.

feltdizz mentions the 1995 AFC title team? Guess what? That was the ONLY TEAM in the first 10 years of Bill Cowher's career that had a TOP TEN PASSING TEAM, and it was the only time in 10 years that he went to a Super Bowl.

So much for running the ball and playing defense huh?

It's a QB driven league and it always has been. You could say the Steelers of 1983-2003 were an extended version of the 2000's Baltimore Ravens. How many teams have the Ravens had in this decade that featured good running games and solid defenses only to be held back by bad QB play?

That's not winning football, if anything it's not winning ENOUGH because the most important position on the team let you down.

Only in simple minded Pittsburgh would fans value defense and running games over the QB position, even after their own teams history makes that opinion basically worthless.

A perennial winning organization? This team was founded in 1933, not 1970 when Bradshaw arrived.

$$$

I just don't get the Ben detractors. It's not only his play but his presence on the field and that winning "mojo" that he brings. It's what a QB is supposed to bring. The Steelers haven't had that since 1983 and TB.

The presence was palpable as soon as he stepped on the field in 2004 and went 15-1 that season. He raised the play of EVERYONE on that team. That is something that can't be taught. Only a handful of QB's can influence the game at all positions.

He just makes everyone else on his team better. A true field general. I liken his "mojo" to Magic Johnson's ability to make everyone better. And the guys on the offense flat out want to PLAY for this guy.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 03:56 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

when did Lebeau arrive? :wink: I think he made a difference in the D.

you need to stop acting like the Steelers were this pathetic franchise who couldn't win before Ben arrived. We had some pretty good teams under Cowher, it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

cherry picking when we missed the playoffs? C'mon... just list the actual records from 94 to 2003.

I think there is 3 AFCCG's and a SB if I'm not mistaken. That isn't a bad track record.

I'm not knocking Ben... I just think it's ludicrous to knock the Steelers without Ben. We had decent teams we just had average QB play.

You mentioned the Browns, not me. I compared the Steelers of 1999-2003 to the 1999-2003 Browns.

Don't change the argument when your point got soundly defeated. :)

True... but I just picked a "losing" franchise... Lions, Bungles... whatever. My point was the Steelers weren't horrible before Ben arrived.

skyhawk
02-21-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

when did Lebeau arrive? :wink: I think he made a difference in the D.

you need to stop acting like the Steelers were this pathetic franchise who couldn't win before Ben arrived. We had some pretty good teams under Cowher, it's crazy to suggest otherwise.

cherry picking when we missed the playoffs? C'mon... just list the actual records from 94 to 2003.

I think there is 3 AFCCG's and a SB if I'm not mistaken. That isn't a bad track record.

I'm not knocking Ben... I just think it's ludicrous to knock the Steelers without Ben. We had decent teams we just had average QB play.

You mentioned the Browns, not me. I compared the Steelers of 1999-2003 to the 1999-2003 Browns.

Don't change the argument when your point got soundly defeated. :)

True... but I just picked a "losing" franchise... Lions, Bungles... whatever. My point was the Steelers weren't horrible before Ben arrived.

No they weren't horrible. They couldn't make big plays in crunch time.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 04:04 PM
Like Feltdizz said, we were successful without Ben.

We won no rings from 1983-2003 prior to Ben.

How many of those teams above had solid defenses? Solid running games?

Now how many of those teams were held back because their QBs couldn't get the job done?

You are being ignorant. If anything the Steelers own past proves my point.

They let good QBs go over the years, Dawson, Morrall, Jack Kemp, they also cut Johnny Unitas.

They won NOTHING for 40 years.

They then draft Bradshaw, they allow him the patience to grow, they didn't dump him at the first signs of trouble like they did the others.

They won four SBs in 10 seasons with him.

Then, they ignored the QB position minus trades for flops Todd Blackledge and David Woodley after they PASSED on Dan Marino in the draft. Even when a guy like eventual Hall of Famer Jim Kelly was BEGGING them to try and trade for him when the USFL was in trouble. They tried to get by with stop gaps and projects, it failed.

feltdizz mentions the 1995 AFC title team? Guess what? That was the ONLY TEAM in the first 10 years of Bill Cowher's career that had a TOP TEN PASSING TEAM, and it was the only time in 10 years that he went to a Super Bowl.

So much for running the ball and playing defense huh?

It's a QB driven league and it always has been. You could say the Steelers of 1983-2003 were an extended version of the 2000's Baltimore Ravens. How many teams have the Ravens had in this decade that featured good running games and solid defenses only to be held back by bad QB play?

That's not winning football, if anything it's not winning ENOUGH because the most important position on the team let you down.

Only in simple minded Pittsburgh would fans value defense and running games over the QB position, even after their own teams history makes that opinion basically worthless.

A perennial winning organization? This team was founded in 1933, not 1970 when Bradshaw arrived.

I'm not saying Ben isn't the difference between winning SB's and not winning SB's...

I was born in 1973 so all I know is a winning franchise that had a few down years in the 80's.

Unless you were in the stadium in 1935 it makes no sense to point out the 1930's, 40's and 50's. As a black man I don't even recognize sports before blacks were allowed on the field.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 04:30 PM
yeah

i guess some people here have a different definition of "winning football"
This is winning football my friend. It's not SB ring football but it's "winning" football.

Jan.5, 2003 - Pittsburgh 36, Cleveland 33 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 27, 2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC Championship

Jan. 20, 2002 - Pittsburgh 27, Baltimore 10 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 11, 1998 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 21 - AFC Championship

Jan. 3, 1998 - Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 5, 1997 - New England 28, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

Dec. 29, 1996 - Pittsburgh 42, Indianapolis 14 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 28, 1996 - Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 - Super Bowl

Jan. 14, 1996 - Pittsburgh 20, Indianapolis 16 - AFC Championship

Jan. 6, 1996 - Pittsburgh 40, Buffalo 21 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 15, 1995 - San Diego 17, Pittsburgh 13 - AFC Championship

Jan. 7, 1995 - Pittsburgh 29, Cleveland 9 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 8, 1994 - Kansas City 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 9, 1993 - Buffalo 24, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 7, 1990 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Divisional

Dec. 31, 1989 - Pittsburgh 26, Houston 23 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 6, 1985 - Miami 45, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Championship

Dec. 30, 1984 - Pittsburgh 24, Denver 17 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 1, 1984 - Los Angeles 38, Pittsburgh 10 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 9, 1983 - San Diego 31, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Playoff

Steeler fans have a Ricky Bobby mentality. :wink:

I know winning a SB is the ultimate goal but acting like the Steelers were cellar dwellers before Ben isn't a true representation of our team.

It's like a Bills fan saying those Jim Kelly teams sucked if they won a SB 2 years after Kelly retired. Ben can be great without sh!tting on on those past Steeler teams who were one piece away from closing the deal. Ben is a great QB but I'll be damned if some Ben nut hugger (not you :wink: ) tries to throw dirt on past Steeler teams because they came up short. We had some damn good teams some years. Just because they didn't win it all it doesn't mean they weren't good.

Ben is a beast but some people showed their delusional side with the 0-4 or 1-3 predictions without Ben. People who give Ben all the credit swore up and down that we couldn't even field a team without him.

Like I said earlier... the Steelers have shown the ability to get to AFCCG's.... but Ben is the key to winning AFCCG's. Teams who make AFCCG's and playoffs more times then they miss it our considered winning teams.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 04:46 PM
No they weren't horrible. They couldn't make big plays in crunch time.

true... and most of those big plays were ST's and D.

My whole point was the Steelers before Ben weren't garbage... Crash acts like the Steelers didn't know what winning was before Ben arrived. We didn't know what winning a SB felt like since 79 but we made the playoffs more times than we missed them.

williar
02-21-2011, 05:53 PM
And don't forget Ben did not play well in super bowl XL, XLV, and was not spectacular in XLIII. He did not have a good playoff run leading up to super bowl XLV. Did not play well in the playoff run in 2004 when we lost to the patriots in the AFCCG. So even in the most recent success, this team does not live or die on the play of Roethlisberger.

Oviedo
02-21-2011, 05:57 PM
FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.

ScoreKeeper
02-21-2011, 06:02 PM
And don't forget Ben did not play well in super bowl XL, XLV, and was not spectacular in XLIII. He did not have a good playoff run leading up to super bowl XLV. Did not play well in the playoff run in 2004 when we lost to the patriots in the AFCCG. So even in the most recent success, this team does not live or die on the play of Roethlisberger.
One cannot even begin to point out the total bull-s hit in this post.

Irongut?

ScoreKeeper
02-21-2011, 06:04 PM
FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.
You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Oviedo
02-21-2011, 06:08 PM
FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.
You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Yea we'll just rely on our defense and running game just like in the "good ol' days."

Our defense did so well against the Packers why would we need Ben.

ScoreKeeper
02-21-2011, 06:12 PM
FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.
You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Yea we'll just rely on our defense and running game just like in the "good ol' days."

Our defense did so well against the Packers why would we need Ben.
Oh, the good ol days. No rings and constant disappointment. But we had a good running game dammmit. And Cowher was spitting and screaming, and we were playing "tough Steelers Football", and darn it all, people liked us.

williar
02-21-2011, 07:03 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

skyhawk
02-21-2011, 07:11 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

A poor Oline, mediocre receivers (Wallace drop), crappy penalty on ST's, his two picks, and a mental drubbing for two weeks by the lynch media constantly reminding him of Georgia. I think that finally was a bit too much for him.

ScoreKeeper
02-21-2011, 07:14 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?
Brees, Rivers, Rogers, and Manning have less po wins/rings than the guy you're trying to tear up. And Brady's have the forever * beside them.

Try again Cupcake.

Troll.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 07:49 PM
FACT: We are not in the play offs without Ben.

All this we are OK without Ben talk is just insane. Do you really think we win the AFC North, have a 12-4 record and are in the Super Bowl this past year with Leftwich or Batch? That is nonsense.

Ben is a difference maker and is a Top 5 QB in this league.
You're wrong. Ben sucks. Trade him and bring back Kordell. He looked good on Joes vs Pros.

Yea we'll just rely on our defense and running game just like in the "good ol' days."

Our defense did so well against the Packers why would we need Ben.
Oh, the good ol days. No rings and constant disappointment. But we had a good running game dammmit. And Cowher was spitting and screaming, and we were playing "tough Steelers Football", and darn it all, people liked us.

FACT: "there is no way we go 3-1 without Ben to start the season" :roll:

No one is saying we could win SB's without Ben... No one is saying Ben sucks or he should be traded. Well, I'm not saying that :wink:

But this whole notion of not being able to win games without Ben is a joke. We have won with scrubs.. we made it to 2 AFCCG's with Kordell.

Why does any discussion with Ben lead to bashing the past or bashing the other QB's who people consider are better than Ben?

Ben is a beast but umm... we have some pretty good players on D too and our WR's and RB aren't that bad either.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 07:53 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

A poor Oline, mediocre receivers (Wallace drop), crappy penalty on ST's, his two picks, and a mental drubbing for two weeks by the lynch media constantly reminding him of Georgia. I think that finally was a bit too much for him.

Wallace drop? On that high azz pass on 4th down? Ben had a bad game... Miller was wide open too. I wish Ben would have went to the vets on the last drive.

The OL wasn't as bad as 2008 either.

The media didn't lynch him either over GA. It was one of the quietest media days of any SB. It was rather boring IMO and I think some drama or chalk board media hype would have helped us. We were flat.

grotonsteel
02-21-2011, 08:27 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

Scoring 25 points against No.2 Defense should be good enough to win a SB especially when people tout that Steelers have the greatest defense after Steel Curtain.

BTW you won't afford those QB you mentioned unless you want to cut some big player from Defense. Are you willing to do that????

Steelers have invested more in their Defense compared to their Offense. So you would expect Defense to make some play. Steelers Defense got smoked because Steelers don't have CB who can play man coverage.

Did the so called No. 1 Defense made any plays in SB???? Did our great DC who can do no wrong called a great game??? He was schooled by Capers. Its the reality. Unless they draft good press coverage CB Steelers and Dick Lebeau stop giving those 10 yard cushions Steelers ain't winning any SB in near future.

Last season there were 3 teams next season there could be 7 teams. Stop drafting slow CB for a change...............Get some speed there.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 08:51 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

Scoring 25 points against No.2 Defense should be good enough to win a SB especially when people tout that Steelers have the greatest defense after Steel Curtain.

BTW you won't afford those QB you mentioned unless you want to cut some big player from Defense. Are you willing to do that????

Steelers have invested more in their Defense compared to their Offense. So you would expect Defense to make some play. Steelers Defense got smoked because Steelers don't have CB who can play man coverage.

Did the so called No. 1 Defense made any plays in SB???? Did our great DC who can do no wrong called a great game??? He was schooled by Capers. Its the reality. Unless they draft good press coverage CB Steelers and bad word Lebeau stop giving those 10 yard cushions Steelers ain't winning any SB in near future.

Last season there were 3 teams next season there could be 7 teams. Stop drafting slow CB for a change...............Get some speed there.

Our D gave up 24 points... while the D could have helped us out it's the O who lost the game for us.

McCarthy schooled Lebeau... I read somewhere that GB ran 3 pass plays over and over again. The worst thing we could have gone up against was a horrible running team who passes all day long with a moblie QB. Lebeau is a great DC but the elite QB's tend to lose the first time around and then pick Lebeau apart.

I would love to go CB the first round but the sad reality is a young guy won't see the field with the playbook we have on D. When Tyron Carter can stay on your D for years because he knows the playbook but is slow as mud it says a lot about the scheme we have in place.

grotonsteel
02-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Well for that matter, I'm disappointed right now we didn't get #7 when it was right there for the taking if our QB could have managed to make a play or two. And hell yeah! I think our offense could do much better! Are their any Rogers, Brees, Brady's, Rivers, Mannings, available?

Scoring 25 points against No.2 Defense should be good enough to win a SB especially when people tout that Steelers have the greatest defense after Steel Curtain.

BTW you won't afford those QB you mentioned unless you want to cut some big player from Defense. Are you willing to do that????

Steelers have invested more in their Defense compared to their Offense. So you would expect Defense to make some play. Steelers Defense got smoked because Steelers don't have CB who can play man coverage.

Did the so called No. 1 Defense made any plays in SB???? Did our great DC who can do no wrong called a great game??? He was schooled by Capers. Its the reality. Unless they draft good press coverage CB Steelers and bad word Lebeau stop giving those 10 yard cushions Steelers ain't winning any SB in near future.

Last season there were 3 teams next season there could be 7 teams. Stop drafting slow CB for a change...............Get some speed there.

Our D gave up 24 points... while the D could have helped us out it's the O who lost the game for us.

McCarthy schooled Lebeau... I read somewhere that GB ran 3 pass plays over and over again. The worst thing we could have gone up against was a horrible running team who passes all day long with a moblie QB. Lebeau is a great DC but the elite QB's tend to lose the first time around and then pick Lebeau apart.

I would love to go CB the first round but the sad reality is a young guy won't see the field with the playbook we have on D. When Tyron Carter can stay on your D for years because he knows the playbook but is slow as mud it says a lot about the scheme we have in place.

I would not just put blame it on O. When Steelers Defense is No.1 it is suppose to make plays and they failed miserably. And this not the story of current SB. We saw the trailer/highlights in SB43.

If Steelers don't change their scheme Steelers Defense will be torched. And if they are unable to find Defensive backs to do the job we will be seeing the same result. NFL is a copy cat league and blue print is out there how to defeat Steelers.

Lets see if Dick Lebeau changes his schemes and drafts players accordingly. If rookie CB can't contribute because of the scheme/playbook then i would say force Dick Lebeau to retire or make him a consultant and let Butler take over.

ScoreKeeper
02-21-2011, 09:27 PM
Felt and Liar watched the game together.

Blind leading the blind.

feltdizz
02-21-2011, 09:59 PM
I would not just put blame it on O. When Steelers Defense is No.1 it is suppose to make plays and they failed miserably. And this not the story of current SB. We saw the trailer/highlights in SB43.

If Steelers don't change their scheme Steelers Defense will be torched. And if they are unable to find Defensive backs to do the job we will be seeing the same result. NFL is a copy cat league and blue print is out there how to defeat Steelers.

Lets see if bad word Lebeau changes his schemes and drafts players accordingly. If rookie CB can't contribute because of the scheme/playbook then i would say force bad word Lebeau to retire or make him a consultant and let Butler take over.

I'm not letting the D off the hook. Lebeau will never be forced out and he shouldn't. There are only 3 or 4 QB's who can abuse Lebeau and our DB's. We will lose games under Butler and complain when it happens.


I don't like the DB play but they win more games then they lose.

That SB43 defense also scored 7 points on the best play ever by a defender. I'll role with DL and hope the new DB coach can improve upon what we have in place :wink:

Scarletfire1970
02-21-2011, 11:08 PM
I'm not knocking Ben, the guy has been great but people act like the Steelers were the Browns before he arrived.

And what would you call four of the previous six January's missing the playoffs, and two 10 loss seasons in the previous five prior to his arrival? Good football?

The Browns made the playoffs once in their first five years when they came back in the league.

The Steelers made the playoffs twice in that same span.

How were the teams so different prior to Ben's arrival again?

The new Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons before Ben. Ben is 12-1 against them.

If the Browns would have picked Ben? The entire division's landscape would have been completely reversed.

God Bless Butch Davis!

With all due respect, some of us feel the exact opposite. You are giving Ben way too much credit. The steelers are a classy, perennial winning organization because of the way it has been ran (the Rooney Family) not because of Ben Roethlisberger. And Ben has challenged much of the steelers respected reputation due to his off the field antics.

I believe Ben is successful because he is a part of this organization, not the other way around. I don't believe for one second that Ben would have been a part of two super bowls if he was quarterbacking the browns, lions, raiders or any other lesser teams. Look at Carson Palmer. He's was way more talented then Ben coming out of college and was a stud his first few years in the league. But look at the toll being a part of the bengals dysfunctional organization has taken on him. Now, he's just a shell of himself. I believe there are more NFL organizations like the bengals than like the steelers.

Ben is fortunate to be a part of the steeler organization. He has been blessed to be on some talented teams where he didn't have to carry the load. As a result he has been elevated to some cult like status. On the other, the steelers organization knows how to win. Like Feltdizz said, we were successful without Ben. I think many of our playoff shortcomings had to do with Cowher. He had his share of problems coaching in big games. I don't think for one minute this team would not have continued to win even if Ben was on another team. There are other fish in the sea and the FO knows how to catch them.If the Steelers organization is so top notch, why did they pay a game manger franchise QB money? It is the Steelers Organization you should be mad at.

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 01:21 AM
I would not just put blame it on O. When Steelers Defense is No.1 it is suppose to make plays and they failed miserably. And this not the story of current SB. We saw the trailer/highlights in SB43.

If Steelers don't change their scheme Steelers Defense will be torched. And if they are unable to find Defensive backs to do the job we will be seeing the same result. NFL is a copy cat league and blue print is out there how to defeat Steelers.

Lets see if bad word Lebeau changes his schemes and drafts players accordingly. If rookie CB can't contribute because of the scheme/playbook then i would say force bad word Lebeau to retire or make him a consultant and let Butler take over.


I don't like the DB play but they win more games then they lose.



I agree they win more often than not but unfortunately in play off and Super Bowl Steelers will face a really good QB who will exploit that 10 yard cushion.

Hopefully Tomlin and Steelers FO will make changes accordingly and scrap that 10 yard cushion plays on crucial 3rd and long down. I am pretty sure Tomlin will be looking for some press coverage CB at the combine.

Crash
02-22-2011, 01:28 AM
And don't forget Ben did not play well in super bowl XL, XLV, and was not spectacular in XLIII. He did not have a good playoff run leading up to super bowl XLV. Did not play well in the playoff run in 2004 when we lost to the patriots in the AFCCG. So even in the most recent success, this team does not live or die on the play of Roethlisberger.

Ben came out on fire in XLIII. Watch the game.

If anything our precious defense kept the Cards in the game because as usual after we score a TD and went up 10-0 guess what? The great defense gave it right back.

Crash
02-22-2011, 01:29 AM
My point was the Steelers weren't horrible before Ben arrived.

Yeah most teams are considered winners when they miss the playoffs 4 of the previous six seasons and have two 10 loss seasons in the previous five.

Silly me.

Crash
02-22-2011, 01:32 AM
Unless you were in the stadium in 1935 it makes no sense to point out the 1930's, 40's and 50's.

He talked about the way the Rooney's "ran" this franchise.

Well before Bradshaw showed up, this team, under the Rooney ownership, won SQUAT for 40 years and were one of the worst teams in professional sports.

Crash
02-22-2011, 01:38 AM
The media didn't lynch him either over GA.

When? During SB media day? No they didn't. But Goodell's quotes to King already did the damage for them. But other articles with flat out lies were written about Ben that week as they are still being written today.

The media did roast him for the entire off season, which is why he was suspended.

Where was the same black media who demanded that 6-5 cracker's head on a platter when Perrish Cox was charged with felony rape of a "helpless victim"?

Oh that's right, Cox is black, so it's OK.

Be-lie-dat!

NJ-STEELER
02-22-2011, 03:47 AM
yeah

i guess some people here have a different definition of "winning football"
This is winning football my friend. It's not SB ring football but it's "winning" football.

Jan.5, 2003 - Pittsburgh 36, Cleveland 33 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 27, 2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC Championship

Jan. 20, 2002 - Pittsburgh 27, Baltimore 10 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 11, 1998 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 21 - AFC Championship

Jan. 3, 1998 - Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 5, 1997 - New England 28, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

Dec. 29, 1996 - Pittsburgh 42, Indianapolis 14 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 28, 1996 - Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 - Super Bowl

Jan. 14, 1996 - Pittsburgh 20, Indianapolis 16 - AFC Championship

Jan. 6, 1996 - Pittsburgh 40, Buffalo 21 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 15, 1995 - San Diego 17, Pittsburgh 13 - AFC Championship

Jan. 7, 1995 - Pittsburgh 29, Cleveland 9 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 8, 1994 - Kansas City 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 9, 1993 - Buffalo 24, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 7, 1990 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Divisional

Dec. 31, 1989 - Pittsburgh 26, Houston 23 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 6, 1985 - Miami 45, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Championship

Dec. 30, 1984 - Pittsburgh 24, Denver 17 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 1, 1984 - Los Angeles 38, Pittsburgh 10 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 9, 1983 - San Diego 31, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Playoff

Steeler fans have a Ricky Bobby mentality. :wink:

I know winning a SB is the ultimate goal but acting like the Steelers were cellar dwellers before Ben isn't a true representation of our team.

It's like a Bills fan saying those Jim Kelly teams sucked if they won a SB 2 years after Kelly retired. Ben can be great without sh!tting on on those past Steeler teams who were one piece away from closing the deal. Ben is a great QB but I'll be damned if some Ben nut hugger (not you :wink: ) tries to throw dirt on past Steeler teams because they came up short. We had some damn good teams some years. Just because they didn't win it all it doesn't mean they weren't good.

Ben is a beast but some people showed their delusional side with the 0-4 or 1-3 predictions without Ben. People who give Ben all the credit swore up and down that we couldn't even field a team without him.

Like I said earlier... the Steelers have shown the ability to get to AFCCG's.... but Ben is the key to winning AFCCG's. Teams who make AFCCG's and playoffs more times then they miss it our considered winning teams.


dont know what part of the country you were in for most of that, but i can tell you after the 01 choke the steelers were the laughing stock on NY radio shows when discussing contenders in the league each year after that.

not to mention fans of various teams around

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 09:59 AM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":ey4egjiq]yeah

i guess some people here have a different definition of "winning football"
This is winning football my friend. It's not SB ring football but it's "winning" football.

Jan.5, 2003 - Pittsburgh 36, Cleveland 33 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 27, 2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC Championship

Jan. 20, 2002 - Pittsburgh 27, Baltimore 10 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 11, 1998 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 21 - AFC Championship

Jan. 3, 1998 - Pittsburgh 7, New England 6 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 5, 1997 - New England 28, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

Dec. 29, 1996 - Pittsburgh 42, Indianapolis 14 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 28, 1996 - Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17 - Super Bowl

Jan. 14, 1996 - Pittsburgh 20, Indianapolis 16 - AFC Championship

Jan. 6, 1996 - Pittsburgh 40, Buffalo 21 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 15, 1995 - San Diego 17, Pittsburgh 13 - AFC Championship

Jan. 7, 1995 - Pittsburgh 29, Cleveland 9 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 8, 1994 - Kansas City 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 9, 1993 - Buffalo 24, Pittsburgh 3 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 7, 1990 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 23 - AFC Divisional

Dec. 31, 1989 - Pittsburgh 26, Houston 23 - AFC Wild Card

Jan. 6, 1985 - Miami 45, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Championship

Dec. 30, 1984 - Pittsburgh 24, Denver 17 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 1, 1984 - Los Angeles 38, Pittsburgh 10 - AFC Divisional

Jan. 9, 1983 - San Diego 31, Pittsburgh 28 - AFC Playoff

Steeler fans have a Ricky Bobby mentality. :wink:

I know winning a SB is the ultimate goal but acting like the Steelers were cellar dwellers before Ben isn't a true representation of our team.

It's like a Bills fan saying those Jim Kelly teams sucked if they won a SB 2 years after Kelly retired. Ben can be great without sh!tting on on those past Steeler teams who were one piece away from closing the deal. Ben is a great QB but I'll be damned if some Ben nut hugger (not you :wink: ) tries to throw dirt on past Steeler teams because they came up short. We had some damn good teams some years. Just because they didn't win it all it doesn't mean they weren't good.

Ben is a beast but some people showed their delusional side with the 0-4 or 1-3 predictions without Ben. People who give Ben all the credit swore up and down that we couldn't even field a team without him.

Like I said earlier... the Steelers have shown the ability to get to AFCCG's.... but Ben is the key to winning AFCCG's. Teams who make AFCCG's and playoffs more times then they miss it our considered winning teams.


dont know what part of the country you were in for most of that, but i can tell you after the 01 choke the steelers were the laughing stock on NY radio shows when discussing contenders in the league each year after that.

not to mention fans of various teams around[/quote:ey4egjiq]

for 2 to 3 whole years we were the laughing stock of the league on NYC radio? I'm shocked :lol:

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 10:15 AM
And don't forget Ben did not play well in super bowl XL, XLV, and was not spectacular in XLIII. He did not have a good playoff run leading up to super bowl XLV. Did not play well in the playoff run in 2004 when we lost to the patriots in the AFCCG. So even in the most recent success, this team does not live or die on the play of Roethlisberger.

Ben came out on fire in XLIII. Watch the game.

If anything our precious defense kept the Cards in the game because as usual after we score a TD and went up 10-0 guess what? The great defense gave it right back.

You mean the pass to Ward to start the game :stirpot

The D made a 14 point swing on the last play of the half. If they didn't give up the Fitz TD last Ben's SB performance would have been forgettable.

Instead of bashing the D you should thank them. Without that collapse Ben would be a legend for being the QB who wins SB's without throwing TD's.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm a fan of Ben... I know some people think I'm not because I give other people on our team credit and don't bash BA for incompletions or INT's but I really am a fan of Ben and know he is the difference between our team being good and our team being GREAT!

My beef is with those who speak about our franchise like they were getting ready to pack up and move to LA until Ben arrived. My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

While some can admit our franchise is successful others need to talk about our franchise like they were losers and a joke until Ben got under center.

BURGH86STEEL
02-22-2011, 12:05 PM
Inconsistency is Ben's biggest issue as a QB. His inconsistent play is a big reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. Ben is one of the top QB's in the league. He's just not as consistent as some of the other top QB's in the league.

At this point of his career, I don't believe Ben will ever become scary good. At some point, the injuries from his style of play will catch up to him. We can only hope that Ben decides to become a smarter QB as he ages. Becoming smarter may go a long way to help extend his career.

williar
02-22-2011, 12:47 PM
Inconsistency is Ben's biggest issue as a QB. His inconsistent play is a big reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. Ben is one of the top QB's in the league. He's just not as consistent as some of the other top QB's in the league.

At this point of his career, I don't believe Ben will ever become scary good. At some point, the injuries from his style of play will catch up to him. We can only hope that Ben decides to become a smarter QB as he ages. Becoming smarter may go a long way to help extend his career.

Good Post! All I want is some objectivity when it comes to Ben. He has many flaws in his game that stand corrected for him to get better and become a more complete QB. I understand we have been successful but I'm certainly not stupid enough to give Ben all the credit. Watching him run the offense is not pretty. We don't execute very well and have had issues scoring points. It's not all Arians or the OL's fault. There have been enough times when we have won inspite of Ben's play for me to sit here and say we win because of Ben. That's crazy, and most objectional fans understand that.

Crash
02-22-2011, 12:57 PM
Anyone who says Ben is "inconsistent"? Doesn't watch him play.

Period.

Yeah, we do have issues scoring points. And you know why? We are too concerned with playing "Stiller Football" in the redzone with our vaunted two TE set running attack.

Oviedo
02-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Like Arians, can you really evaluate Ben objectively and properly with the OL we have had the past three years?

I think not.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 02:03 PM
Like Arians, can you really evaluate Ben objectively and properly with the OL we have had the past three years?

I think not.

it is what it is though Ovie...

given Ben's salary, the way he plays football, the commitment to our D and our BPA drafting history Ben will probably be gone by the time we get a solid OL.

Everyone keeps saying "if Ben had time he would carve D's up"

We have watched Ben have time and guess what? The results are the same. He makes some great throws, he makes some horrible throws.... and he pumps, pumps and breaks the pocket and gets yards on the ground or extends the play.

Crash
02-22-2011, 02:21 PM
The OL is only half the problem.

The biggest problem is formation predictability. When Speath and or Johnson is on the field? Most times its a run. Then they get yanked on second and long and in comes the WRs? It's a pass.

Three wide base. Then we aren't having these moronic discussions.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 02:21 PM
Anyone who says Ben is "inconsistent"? Doesn't watch him play.

Period.

Yeah, we do have issues scoring points. And you know why? We are too concerned with playing "Stiller Football" in the redzone with our vaunted two TE set running attack.

on a scale of 1 to 10 how good was Ben in the SB?

Crash
02-22-2011, 02:23 PM
My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 02:32 PM
Inconsistency is Ben's biggest issue as a QB. His inconsistent play is a big reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. Ben is one of the top QB's in the league. He's just not as consistent as some of the other top QB's in the league.

At this point of his career, I don't believe Ben will ever become scary good. At some point, the injuries from his style of play will catch up to him. We can only hope that Ben decides to become a smarter QB as he ages. Becoming smarter may go a long way to help extend his career.

Good Post! All I want is some objectivity when it comes to Ben. He has many flaws in his game that stand corrected for him to get better and become a more complete QB. I understand we have been successful but I'm certainly not stupid enough to give Ben all the credit. Watching him run the offense is not pretty. We don't execute very well and have had issues scoring points. It's not all Arians or the OL's fault. There have been enough times when we have won inspite of Ben's play for me to sit here and say we win because of Ben. That's crazy, and most objectional fans understand that.


No one is saying Steelers win because of Ben but he was missing piece of the puzzle.It is no coincidence Steelers started winning when Ben became a QB.
You and BurghSteel are the ones who are beating the drum that
Steelers are winning without Ben...

Get a life...troll...


Care to name consistent QB in AFC???

Tom Brady (who has won nothing after caught cheating)
Peyton manning biggest choker in NFL (SB run he was 1 TD- 4 INT BTW)
Philip Rivers who can't take Chargers to playoffs even in a weak division...

Crash
02-22-2011, 02:32 PM
Anyone who says Ben is "inconsistent"? Doesn't watch him play.

Period.

Yeah, we do have issues scoring points. And you know why? We are too concerned with playing "Stiller Football" in the redzone with our vaunted two TE set running attack.

on a scale of 1 to 10 how good was Ben in the SB?

I'd say a 6. Erratic early. Notice the only time we moved the ball in the air was when Spaeth and Johnson were not on the field?

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 02:33 PM
Anyone who says Ben is "inconsistent"? Doesn't watch him play.

Period.

Yeah, we do have issues scoring points. And you know why? We are too concerned with playing "Stiller Football" in the redzone with our vaunted two TE set running attack.

on a scale of 1 to 10 how good was Ben in the SB?

I would rate a 6. Could he have won the game for Steelers by playing better hell yes. But the same can be said for the entire team.

Whole team played horrible in SB why put blame on only QB.Bash the entire team.

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 02:38 PM
My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.

They will move the goal post...

Williar and BurghSteel are resident Ben haters...so what they say take it with pinch of salt. They have different measuring sticks for different QB.

If you point out Tom Brady inconsistencies they will blame the Cheatroits defense for the loss. Same goes with Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers.

But yes according to them Steelers lose because of Ben even if Defense chokes like a bia and Steelers win all the games because of Defense, ben has got nothing to do with it. I am not sure if they watch any football games..

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 02:47 PM
Like Arians, can you really evaluate Ben objectively and properly with the OL we have had the past three years?

I think not.

I believe Steelers Offense and OC get too much blame. When you don't have any constant in O-line or WR corp, Offense is going to be inconsistent. Also i believe Steelers have invested much more on defense than offense. I don't have numbers but i think they have and if that is the case no harm to expect more from Defense.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 02:54 PM
So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.

Why the 6 year cutoff? Why not use the entire 15 years of the previous leadership and coaching?

15 years
Games over .500: 59
Super Bowl Wins: 1
Overall Championships: 1
Conference Championships: 2
Division Championships: 9

Before Ben, 12 seasons under same coach, 8 of which ended in playoffs, most with more than 1 game or a bye in the playoffs.

That sounds like winning.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:02 PM
Why the 6 year cutoff?

For the same reason people would compare Bill Cowher to Paul Brown because he made the playoffs 6 straight years to start his career.

The first 6 years of Cowher's career were steady winning.

But the six years prior to Ben was a team in a downward spiral. "Winning teams" don't have two 10 loss seasons in five years.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 03:05 PM
My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.
:wft I would call them the Steelers... :wink:

Let's look at those 6 season's prior to Ben's arrival.

2003 - Pittsburgh 36, Cleveland 33 - AFC Wild Card
2002 - New England 24, Pittsburgh 17 - AFC Championship
2001 we missed the playoffs
2000 we missed the playoffs
1999 we missed the playoffs
1998 - Denver 24, Pittsburgh 21 - AFC Championship

So...

3 or 4 OC changes, 2 AFCCG's and a Wild Card win.

Yeah.. we were pathetic. :roll:

Next question!










we missed the playoffs 3 out of 6 years prior to Ben and made it to 2 AFCCG's...

I call that winning football.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:08 PM
Why the 6 year cutoff?

For the same reason people would compare Bill Cowher to Paul Brown because he made the playoffs 6 straight years to start his career.

The first 6 years of Cowher's career were steady winning.

But the six years prior to Ben was a team in a downward spiral. "Winning teams" don't have two 10 loss seasons in five years.
Paul Brown coached for 6 seasons between 1959-1969 and made the playoffs in none of them.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:11 PM
we missed the playoffs 3 out of 6 years prior to Ben and made it to 2 AFCCG's...

You don't even have the basics correct.

1998: No playoffs.

1999: No playoffs.

2000: No playoffs.

2001: AFC title game.

2002: AFC Div round.

2003: No playoffs.

Ben arrives in 2004.

You're welcome.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 03:14 PM
Why the 6 year cutoff?

For the same reason people would compare Bill Cowher to Paul Brown because he made the playoffs 6 straight years to start his career.

The first 6 years of Cowher's career were steady winning.

But the six years prior to Ben was a team in a downward spiral. "Winning teams" don't have two 10 loss seasons in five years.

you should have said the last 5. When you use 6 season's it includes our AFCCG loss to the Bronco's.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 03:16 PM
we missed the playoffs 3 out of 6 years prior to Ben and made it to 2 AFCCG's...

You don't even have the basics correct.

1998: No playoffs.

1999: No playoffs.

2000: No playoffs.

2001: AFC title game.

2002: AFC Div round.

2003: No playoffs.

Ben arrives in 2004.

You're welcome.
my source must have been off by a year. :wink:

no one corrected the post I put up with our playoff history. I stand corrected.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:16 PM
LOL Are you honestly trying to sell to this board that the AFC title game played in January 1998 was during the 1998 season?

Good grief.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:16 PM
we missed the playoffs 3 out of 6 years prior to Ben and made it to 2 AFCCG's...

You don't even have the basics correct.

1998: No playoffs.

1999: No playoffs.

2000: No playoffs.

2001: AFC title game.

2002: AFC Div round.

2003: No playoffs.

Ben arrives in 2004.

You're welcome.
1992-1997, all playoff appearances, 1 SB appearance.

sentinel33
02-22-2011, 03:18 PM
Ben's 7 year track record as a Pro speaks for it's self.
Not every QB can be ON all the time. For the most part Ben has delivered when he had to. And there are a lot of other teams that would take him at the drop of a hat.
He wont get it done like Manning or Brady or any of the other great QB's in the league. He has his own style of play and the team wins consistently year in and year out missing the playoffs only twice in his 7 year tenure. Which means that nearly every year we have a shot.
Since Bradshaw, the team had only one stretch of time that compares to what the team has done since Ben arrived. The 6 year span from 93-98 was pretty frickin good, making the playoffs each year. What the team has done over the past 7 seasons starting with a underclassman rookie QB has been amazing.
Ben wins, and you have to have a very good game to beat him. Rarely does he beat himself. I'd give him a 6 for his performance in the Superbowl. But then I'd give the team as a whole a 6 as well. Missed opportunities are the hardest to get over. This SB is one of them.

We are currently livin the dream. goin to the playoffs and competing in and winning Superbowls at an average clip of one Superbowl appearance every 2-3 years. That's ridiculous. Not since Bradshaw. And only since Ben.

Enjoy this and quit trying to decrease the importance of Ben's ability. Dudes a winner and he gets it done and the proof is in his resume. If I had a resume like that come across my desk, I would hire the person immediately.

I realize that we dont win all the games and sometimes we win in spite of poor QB play, but none of this is happening wihtout Ben. And I'd bet money that Ben would have been successful elsewhere. That's just the type of gamer he is.

Cant win 'em all but Ben and company win most of them. I'll take it. every year. no brainer.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:18 PM
1992-1997, all playoff appearances, 1 SB appearance.

Very good. Now what does that have to do with the 6 years prior to Ben? I gave Cowher credit for those first six years.

But don't ignore the downward trend the following six years were also.

Then Ben arrives.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:21 PM
1992-1997, all playoff appearances, 1 SB appearance.

Very good. Now what does that have to do with the 6 years prior to Ben? I gave Cowher credit for those first six years.

But don't ignore the downward trend the following six years were also.

Then Ben arrives.
Downward trend? 2 of the 3 years before Ben, we made the playoffs and won the division.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 03:22 PM
so yeah... I was off a year. About.com sucks.

but we were still 51-44 in that time frame with Kordell and an insurance agent and made it to an AFCCG and had a wild card win.

Not as impressive because the other AFCCG was one year prior...

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Eight games over .500, now what were they from 1992-1997?

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 03:24 PM
LOL Are you honestly trying to sell to this board that the AFC title game played in January 1998 was during the 1998 season?

Good grief.
I already stated my mistake. Good grief.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:24 PM
Downward trend? 2 of the 3 years before Ben, we made the playoffs and won the division

And 4 of 6 years we missed the playoffs and two 10 loss seasons in five years.

Yeah, real consistent. :roll:

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:26 PM
Eight games over .500, now what were they from 1992-1997?

Remove 2003, the two previous years we were division champs and had a combined 23-8-1 record in the regular season. If you were around for 2003, you know that was a strange year.

That's winning football.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Downward trend? 2 of the 3 years before Ben, we made the playoffs and won the division

And 4 of 6 years we missed the playoffs and two 10 loss seasons in five years.

Yeah, real consistent. :roll:

Isn't the previous 3 years a better statement of where the team was prior to Ben than the 6 prior? If not, please explain.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Why remove anything? Why not have a fair balance between 12 years down to six years each time? I'm being fair. You guys want to cherry pick.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:33 PM
Why remove anything? Why not have a fair balance between 12 years down to six years each time? I'm being fair. You guys want to cherry pick.

No, you want to cherry pick. My first post was in regard to the entire 12 years. You are the one who wants to use the 6 previous, not the 3 previous or the 12 total.

Agreed, why remove anything. Look at all 12 years, 8 of which were in the playoffs, 1 SB appearance, 4 AFCC games and 7 division championships.

That's winning football.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:38 PM
Why remove anything? Why not have a fair balance between 12 years down to six years each time? I'm being fair. You guys want to cherry pick.

No, you want to cherry pick. My first post was in regard to the entire 12 years. You are the one who wants to use the 6 previous, not the 3 previous or the 12 total.

Agreed, why remove anything. Look at all 12 years, 8 of which were in the playoffs, 1 SB appearance, 4 AFCC games and 7 division championships.

That's winning football.

So when Chuck Noll missed the playoffs in six of his final seven seasons as our coach that was "winning football" because he won four Super Bowls in the 1970's?

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:52 PM
So when Chuck Noll missed the playoffs in six of his final seven seasons as our coach that was "winning football" because he won four Super Bowls in the 1970's?
So now you want to discuss Noll's tenure? That's a discussion for another day and unrelated to Ben or Cowher, which is the topic of today. Every coaching tenure has it's ups and downs but the one thing we have shown is since Noll and through Cowher, winning was the tradition. Ben didn't make us a winner and we will be winners when Ben leaves.

Crash
02-22-2011, 03:54 PM
So now you want to discuss Noll's tenure?

I'm discussing trends. YOU GUYS want to ignore the six year downward trend by double dipping and lumping the first six years of Cowher's career with it.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 03:59 PM
So now you want to discuss Noll's tenure?

I'm discussing trends. YOU GUYS want to ignore the six year downward trend by double dipping and lumping the first six years of Cowher's career with it.

If you truly wanted to discuss trends, you would focus on the previous 3 year trend, not the 6 year trend. 2 of the 3 years prior to Ben were playoff runs. 2003, if you were around to watch that year, was an odd year so if one is honest and paid attention to the team before Ben arrived, it is without question we were a winning team on a winning trend.

It seems you started watching the Steelers in 2004. Perhaps you are a Miami of Ohio graduate or Ben relative?

Crash
02-22-2011, 04:02 PM
How was 2003 an "odd year" when it was their second 10 loss season in five years? And their 3rd losing season in the previous six?

Don't try to discuss facts about this team with me. You'll embarrass yourself.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 04:02 PM
So now you want to discuss Noll's tenure?

I'm discussing trends. YOU GUYS want to ignore the six year downward trend by double dipping and lumping the first six years of Cowher's career with it.

you are the one who came up with the 6 year bracket. You can bracket any team or player and point out a negative or positive trend. When the cowher +11 record is mentioned you are the first to point out why its 11 and not 10.

Crash
02-22-2011, 04:05 PM
When the cowher +11 record is mentioned you are the first to point out why its 11 and not 10.

Right, because pre-brains in the media have often said it's 10 or more points. That is incorrect. It's 11+.

Terrific. Cowher can hold 11+ leads in the regular season.

I'll make sure to remember that the next time someone brings up the two 10 point leads they blew in the playoffs.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 04:05 PM
How was 2003 an "odd year" when it was their second 10 loss season in five years? And their 3rd losing season in the previous six?

Don't try to discuss facts about this team with me. You'll embarrass yourself.

No need to try and discuss the team with you. You've already proven you are not a fan of the team but rather one player.

I ask again, are you related to Ben, an Miami of Ohio grad? What's the connection that brought you to the Steelers in 2004?

Crash
02-22-2011, 04:08 PM
Blockhead suits you well.

I'm a Steelers fan. Says here you are either 15 or 55. Too young to know anything or too old and just hanging onto the memories of the 1970's and "Caaaaaaaaaaahr Paaaaaaaaaaaer"

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Blockhead suits you well.

I'm a Steelers fan. Says here you are either 15 or 55. Too young to know anything or too old and just hanging onto the memories of the 1970's and "Caaaaaaaaaaahr Paaaaaaaaaaaer"

I don't know of many Steelers fans that exonerate Ben for his SB performance, wanted LeBeau fired or hates Cowher and has messages in their posts making fun of him.

You can say you are a Steelers fan but the facts state quite otherwise.

Crash
02-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Blockhead suits you well.

I'm a Steelers fan. Says here you are either 15 or 55. Too young to know anything or too old and just hanging onto the memories of the 1970's and "Caaaaaaaaaaahr Paaaaaaaaaaaer"

I don't know of many Steelers fans that exonerate Ben for his SB performance, wanted LeBeau fired or hates Cowher and has messages in their posts making fun of him.

You can say you are a Steelers fan but the facts state quite otherwise.

I'm not making fun of Cowher at all.

FACT: He wanted Rivers.

FACT: He didn't want Ben.

FACT: Of the Big 3 of the 2004 draft, only Bill Cowher's boy, is the one who is ringless.

I'm sick of LeBeau cowering in fear when he plays elite QBs.

Either allow your players to make plays or retire. I don't really care that they sack Daunte Culpepper of the 1-3 Lions three times when he's rushing 3 men on 3rd and 10 in the Super Bowl down three points.

You want to talk SB performances? Here are LeBeau's defenses in Super Bowls:

Bengals 1988: Blows 4th quarter lead, allows 90 yard drive.

Steelers 1995: Started slow, gave up 13 points in the first three drives of the game to the Cowboys.

Steelers 2005: Solid game.

Steelers 2008: Blew the biggest 4th quarter lead in SB history.

Four SBs, and he laid an egg in three of them.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 04:31 PM
Blockhead suits you well.

I'm a Steelers fan. Says here you are either 15 or 55. Too young to know anything or too old and just hanging onto the memories of the 1970's and "Caaaaaaaaaaahr Paaaaaaaaaaaer"

I don't know of many Steelers fans that exonerate Ben for his SB performance, wanted LeBeau fired or hates Cowher and has messages in their posts making fun of him.

You can say you are a Steelers fan but the facts state quite otherwise.

I'm not making fun of Cowher at all.

I'm sick of LeBeau cowering in fear when he plays elite QBs.

Either allow your players to make plays or retire. I don't really care that they sack Daunte Culpepper of the 1-3 Lions three times when he's rushing 3 men on 3rd and 10 in the Super Bowl down three points.

You want to talk SB performances? Here are LeBeau's defenses in Super Bowls:

Steelers 1995: Started slow, gave up 13 points in the first three drives of the game to the Cowboys.

Steelers 2005: Solid game.

Steelers 2008: Blew the biggest 4th quarter lead in SB history.

Four SBs, and he laid an egg in three of them.
You most certainly are making fun of Cowher. We likely could have won as much or more with any of the top 3 QB's from that draft.

Most teams struggle against elite QB's like Rodgers. That's what makes them elite.

Now, for LeBeau,
1995, we win the game if O'Donnell doesn't hand the Cowboys points.
2008, we don't win the game without the defense and Harrison making the greatest play of the game and a 14 point swing.
2010, we don't lose the game if Ben doesn't hand the Packers points. We gave up less points, yards, first downs and TOP than the Packers defense.

Crash
02-22-2011, 04:47 PM
You most certainly are making fun of Cowher. We likely could have won as much or more with any of the top 3 QB's from that draft.

Philip Rivers plays in a garbage division and yet he can't advance in the post season. Don't tell me he doesn't/didn't have talent either.

Eli has led the league in picks twice in the last four years. And yet you think both can do what Ben does? Behind this OL and the constant change around him?

Eli lost Plax and hasn't been to the playoffs since.

Ben lost Plax and won three AFC titles and two rings.

LeBeau's defense started slow in SB XXX. That was a big factor in why they lost.

Rivers is 0-3 in Pittsburgh, and you think his pop gun arm could handle this weather full time?

Spare me.

BURGH86STEEL
02-22-2011, 05:06 PM
My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.

They will move the goal post...

Williar and BurghSteel are resident Ben haters...so what they say take it with pinch of salt. They have different measuring sticks for different QB.

If you point out Tom Brady inconsistencies they will blame the Cheatroits defense for the loss. Same goes with Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers.

But yes according to them Steelers lose because of Ben even if Defense chokes like a bia and Steelers win all the games because of Defense, ben has got nothing to do with it. I am not sure if they watch any football games..

I am a Ben hater because I feel Ben is a big reason the offense remains an inconsistent force? Stating that does not make me a hater. I feel there are other QB's that play the position with more consistency then Ben. That does not make me hater. It does not mean I feel Ben is a bad player.

When other team's offenses don't perform, the QB's usually take most of the heat. That's the nature of the QB position. QB is the only player that touches the ball on almost every offensive snap. Steelers passing offense struggled vs the Packers. Ben was a big reason why.

When other teams QB's struggle, their offenses usually struggle. That goes for NE, Colts, Saints, Chargers, Packers, and so on. Those 5 teams get more scoring production out of their QB's. The Steelers would be a much better team if they could get that type of scoring production from Ben. The Steelers offense struggles more then some other offenses around the league and Ben is a big factor in those struggles.

I've said on more then one occasion that the defense did not execute up to the level of their expectations. The defenses inability to close out games cost the team a chance to make the playoffs in 09. They did not do their job in the SB. I am sure every player on that team felt they should had held the Packers to 3 points instead of TD's after those turnovers.

feltdizz
02-22-2011, 05:29 PM
Ben lost Plax and won three AFC titles and two rings.

LeBeau's defense started slow in SB XXX. That was a big factor in why they lost.



The Steelers always replace WR's and LB's without seeing a significant drop off.

The D wasn't why the Steelers lost SB XXX. It was O'Donnell. Dallas was a damn good team too.

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 05:51 PM
My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.

They will move the goal post...

Williar and BurghSteel are resident Ben haters...so what they say take it with pinch of salt. They have different measuring sticks for different QB.

If you point out Tom Brady inconsistencies they will blame the Cheatroits defense for the loss. Same goes with Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers.

But yes according to them Steelers lose because of Ben even if Defense chokes like a bia and Steelers win all the games because of Defense, ben has got nothing to do with it. I am not sure if they watch any football games..

I am a Ben hater because I feel Ben is a big reason the offense remains an inconsistent force? Stating that does not make me a hater. I feel there are other QB's that play the position with more consistency then Ben. That does not make me hater. It does not mean I feel Ben is a bad player.

When other team's offenses don't perform, the QB's usually take most of the heat. That's the nature of the QB position. QB is the only player that touches the ball on almost every offensive snap. Steelers passing offense struggled vs the Packers. Ben was a big reason why.

When other teams QB's struggle, their offenses usually struggle. That goes for NE, Colts, Saints, Chargers, Packers, and so on. Those 5 teams get more scoring production out of their QB's. The Steelers would be a much better team if they could get that type of scoring production from Ben. The Steelers offense struggles more then some other offenses around the league and Ben is a big factor in those struggles.

I've said on more then one occasion that the defense did not execute up to the level of their expectations. The defenses inability to close out games cost the team a chance to make the playoffs in 09. They did not do their job in the SB. I am sure every player on that team felt they should had held the Packers to 3 points instead of TD's after those turnovers.


Of those five mentioned team four teams did not make it to Superbowl. Well forget Superbowl they did not even make AFCCG.So what production are you talking about???


How many INT did Peyton Manning threw in this regular season??? Ahhh but Colts defense sucks....right..?? I don't want to go in there individual performances but simple fact is none of these QB made it into SB except obviously Rodgers who won SB.

Again i am still waiting to name the QBs who play better consistently.

BTW if you even watched Steelers games last season Ben Stats:

17 TD 5-INT and 3200 yards in 12 games. If that is not consistency not sure what is your criteria for consistency.

Again watch games and don't look for stats like a fantasy football player.

NJ-STEELER
02-22-2011, 07:00 PM
we're supposed to judge how good the team was before ben joined it by looking at records from the 12 years prior to it?? how the hell does that make sense

we must have been the oldest team in the league with all those 12-13 year vets

BURGH86STEEL
02-22-2011, 07:01 PM
My beef is with those who talk about our past Steeler teams like they rarely made the playoffs.

So again, what would you call a team that missed the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons prior to his arrival?

Don't ignore the question. Answer it.

They will move the goal post...

Williar and BurghSteel are resident Ben haters...so what they say take it with pinch of salt. They have different measuring sticks for different QB.

If you point out Tom Brady inconsistencies they will blame the Cheatroits defense for the loss. Same goes with Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers.

But yes according to them Steelers lose because of Ben even if Defense chokes like a bia and Steelers win all the games because of Defense, ben has got nothing to do with it. I am not sure if they watch any football games..

I am a Ben hater because I feel Ben is a big reason the offense remains an inconsistent force? Stating that does not make me a hater. I feel there are other QB's that play the position with more consistency then Ben. That does not make me hater. It does not mean I feel Ben is a bad player.

When other team's offenses don't perform, the QB's usually take most of the heat. That's the nature of the QB position. QB is the only player that touches the ball on almost every offensive snap. Steelers passing offense struggled vs the Packers. Ben was a big reason why.

When other teams QB's struggle, their offenses usually struggle. That goes for NE, Colts, Saints, Chargers, Packers, and so on. Those 5 teams get more scoring production out of their QB's. The Steelers would be a much better team if they could get that type of scoring production from Ben. The Steelers offense struggles more then some other offenses around the league and Ben is a big factor in those struggles.

I've said on more then one occasion that the defense did not execute up to the level of their expectations. The defenses inability to close out games cost the team a chance to make the playoffs in 09. They did not do their job in the SB. I am sure every player on that team felt they should had held the Packers to 3 points instead of TD's after those turnovers.


Of those five mentioned team four teams did not make it to Superbowl. Well forget Superbowl they did not even make AFCCG.So what production are you talking about???


How many INT did Peyton Manning threw in this regular season??? Ahhh but Colts defense sucks....right..?? I don't want to go in there individual performances but simple fact is none of these QB made it into SB except obviously Rodgers who won SB.

Again i am still waiting to name the QBs who play better consistently.

BTW if you even watched Steelers games last season Ben Stats:

17 TD 5-INT and 3200 yards in 12 games. If that is not consistency not sure what is your criteria for consistency.

Again watch games and don't look for stats like a fantasy football player.

Appears you are confusing team accomplishment with individual accomplishment.

P. Manning, Brees, Brady, & Rivers played the position with more consistency then Ben over the past few seasons. Those teams offenses consistently out performed the Steelers offenses and QB play is the biggest factor. More point production results from QB play.

I watched many games. You're the one quoting stats. If you want to compare stats, you will see that those QB's threw more TD's then Ben. Those QB lead offenses scored more PPG. That "fantasy football" production would be good for the Steelers offense and ultimately for the team. Fans want this offense to score more points. Contrary to what some people try to insinuate(stats don't matter), fantasy football stats help teams win games. I haven't played fantasy football for about 2 seasons. It's not a big hobby of mine.

Ben's been good for the Steelers. That being said, I don't think he's played at a consistently high enough level to help take the Steelers offense to another level. I feel that Ben needs to play with more consistency for the offense to take the next step and become a more consistent force. I won't be upset if you disagree.

grotonsteel
02-22-2011, 07:21 PM
Appears you are confusing team accomplishment with individual accomplishment.

P. Manning, Brees, Brady, & Rivers played the position with more consistency then Ben over the past few seasons. Those teams offenses consistently out performed the Steelers offenses and QB play is the biggest factor. More point production results from QB play.

I watched many games. You're the one quoting stats. If you want to compare stats, you will see that those QB's threw more TD's then Ben. Those QB lead offenses scored more PPG. That "fantasy football" production would be good for the Steelers offense and ultimately for the team. Fans want this offense to score more points. Contrary to what some people try to insinuate(stats don't matter), fantasy football stats help teams win games. I haven't played fantasy football for about 2 seasons. It's not a big hobby of mine.

Ben's been good for the Steelers. That being said, I don't think he's played at a consistently high enough level to help take the Steelers offense to another level. I feel that Ben needs to play with more consistency for the offense to take the next step and become a more consistent force. I won't be upset if you disagree.

Ohh so according to you Ben wins because of Defense but Steelers lose because of Ben. whereas Cheatroits,Colts Chargers win because of their play and lose because of their Defense.. Got it. That some stupid double standard.


When did football became an individual game??? So you are telling Peyton played horrible this season because he sucked. It had nothing to do with injuries to his O-line or WRs?? You agree on that??? Wow..thats some progress.... :lol:

Okay let me tell you one thing. Philip Rivers scored garbage TDs more often than not. Chargers had Top-3 defense in NFL and still they could not reach playoffs. Again if you ever decide to watch games you might know about it.

Can you tell me why Tom Brady sucked big time in playoffs?? You are telling me Tom Brady had nothing to do with that?? He has not won a playoff game past 3 season. Thats inconsistency for you. He cannot win a big game for you without cheating. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

My 2 cents next time don't keep changing criteria/rules for QB you love. Keep the rules same it might change your opinion.

Crash
02-22-2011, 08:17 PM
Philip Rivers. He of the garbage time stats. :roll:


When other team's offenses don't perform, the QB's usually take most of the heat.

I'll ask you the same question I asked others. Go find me 5 articles from January 2007 that bashed Peyton Manning for his playoff run in the year he won his ring.

You won't find them. He was 15 of 30 for 170 yards and 2 picks, and ESPN called him "efficient".

NONE of the QBs you listed get the heat Ben does when Ben has a bad game, hell when Ben has a bad HALF.

williar
02-22-2011, 08:37 PM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.

Crash
02-22-2011, 08:38 PM
Ben lost Plax and won three AFC titles and two rings.

LeBeau's defense started slow in SB XXX. That was a big factor in why they lost.



The Steelers always replace WR's and LB's without seeing a significant drop off.

The D wasn't why the Steelers lost SB XXX. It was O'Donnell. Dallas was a damn good team too.

You need to learn how to read. I said the defense starting slow was a factor in why they lost.

I'm also sick of hearing how the other team is "good" when the Steelers defense gets torched. But yet Roethlisberger and the offense never get the same consideration.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 09:01 PM
You need to learn how to read. I said the defense starting slow was a factor in why they lost.

I'm also sick of hearing how the other team is "good" when the Steelers defense gets torched. But yet Roethlisberger and the offense never get the same consideration.

Why do you care so much if Ben gets recognition or not?

The easy way to look at it is this. What QB's could come here and play on the Steelers, with our current team and defense and be as good as Ben or better? I'd say the list is at least 10 deep. Most of which would improve our offense.

Blockhead
02-22-2011, 09:05 PM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

hawaiiansteel
02-22-2011, 09:45 PM
LeBeau's defense started slow in SB XXX. That was a big factor in why they lost.



the defense did start slow and that didn't help our cause any. however, when that game ended I did not think we lost because of our defense starting out slow...

instead, I was cursing the name of Neil "O'Darnit I've thrown it to Larry Brown again" O'Donnell.

http://media.bonnint.net/seattle/3/339/33981.jpg

Crash
02-22-2011, 10:23 PM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.

His stats after 7 years match up with Montana but you are right. He can't pass at all. He's too busy being carried by that defense that's allowed 5 TD passes in their last 5 SB quarters.

Silly us.

Crash
02-22-2011, 10:27 PM
What QB's could come here and play on the Steelers, with our current team and defense and be as good as Ben or better?

Now remember, when you are blowing guys like Brees and Manning, their domes don't come with them. While you are on your knees in front of Rivers, the sun doesn't come with him either nor do the Raiders and Broncos twice a year.

It's funny, all these guys are better and yet when they are in the same situation Ben's been in they can't win.

Crash
02-22-2011, 10:27 PM
Matt Ryan? Hahahahahahahaha.

Now I've heard it all.

Crash
02-22-2011, 10:37 PM
I'd say the list is at least 10 deep.

Name them.

NJ-STEELER
02-22-2011, 11:19 PM
some here need to go watch some more SD games.

they'll see the vaunted phil rivers start out slow and have his team down by 2-3 scores and have them heave the ball up to make the game seem closer then it was.


goota love some "steeler fans" though. go to most teams fan bases and the majority of them have the backs of their QB. some who have accomplished nothing.

i guess in pittsburgh, its considered a tradition considering what terry went through.
thats why i have to laugh when i hear that steeler fans are the best fans out there

Crash
02-22-2011, 11:58 PM
they'll see the vaunted phil rivers start out slow and have his team down by 2-3 scores and have them heave the ball up to make the game seem closer then it was.

107-10.

That's the number of the deficits the Chargers had in seven losses this season. Then scrap time Phil got his stats.

Flasteel
02-23-2011, 12:04 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

There is no way you guys are this stupid...right? You have to be trolls to come on here and spew what would be universally criticized by any sampling of legitimate NFL analysts.

10 deep. :D

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 01:11 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.

You lost me at Matt Ryan.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 01:13 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

There is no way you guys are this stupid...right? You have to be trolls to come on here and spew what would be universally criticized by any sampling of legitimate NFL analysts.

10 deep. :D

My guess is blockhead = irongut

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 01:19 AM
some here need to go watch some more SD games.

they'll see the vaunted phil rivers start out slow and have his team down by 2-3 scores and have them heave the ball up to make the game seem closer then it was.


goota love some "steeler fans" though. go to most teams fan bases and the majority of them have the backs of their QB. some who have accomplished nothing.

i guess in pittsburgh, its considered a tradition considering what terry went through.
thats why i have to laugh when i hear that steeler fans are the best fans out there

Don't try to explain facts to few people who never watch any NFL games.

When you mention Rivers struggle you will be told but Chargers Defense sucks (even though it is top-5 D)....NFL is an individual sport...etc etc etc....

BURGH86STEEL
02-23-2011, 06:54 AM
Appears you are confusing team accomplishment with individual accomplishment.

P. Manning, Brees, Brady, & Rivers played the position with more consistency then Ben over the past few seasons. Those teams offenses consistently out performed the Steelers offenses and QB play is the biggest factor. More point production results from QB play.

I watched many games. You're the one quoting stats. If you want to compare stats, you will see that those QB's threw more TD's then Ben. Those QB lead offenses scored more PPG. That "fantasy football" production would be good for the Steelers offense and ultimately for the team. Fans want this offense to score more points. Contrary to what some people try to insinuate(stats don't matter), fantasy football stats help teams win games. I haven't played fantasy football for about 2 seasons. It's not a big hobby of mine.

Ben's been good for the Steelers. That being said, I don't think he's played at a consistently high enough level to help take the Steelers offense to another level. I feel that Ben needs to play with more consistency for the offense to take the next step and become a more consistent force. I won't be upset if you disagree.

Ohh so according to you Ben wins because of Defense but Steelers lose because of Ben. whereas Cheatroits,Colts Chargers win because of their play and lose because of their Defense.. Got it. That some stupid double standard.

Where did I make that statement? I take it you heard that some place else?

When did football became an individual game??? So you are telling Peyton played horrible this season because he sucked. It had nothing to do with injuries to his O-line or WRs?? You agree on that??? Wow..thats some progress.... :lol:

I will make it simple for you. Peyton played the position with more consistency then Ben.

Okay let me tell you one thing. Philip Rivers scored garbage TDs more often than not. Chargers had Top-3 defense in NFL and still they could not reach playoffs. Again if you ever decide to watch games you might know about it.

Rivers played the position with more consistency then Ben.

Can you tell me why Tom Brady sucked big time in playoffs?? You are telling me Tom Brady had nothing to do with that?? He has not won a playoff game past 3 season. Thats inconsistency for you. He cannot win a big game for you without cheating. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again, Tom Brady played the position with more consistency then Ben.

My 2 cents next time don't keep changing criteria/rules for QB you love. Keep the rules same it might change your opinion.

My 2 cents, read and attempt to comprehend my position on the issue. One reason the Steelers offense was an inconsistent force was because of the lack of consistency from the Steelers QB. That simple enough?

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 07:21 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

There is no way you guys are this stupid...right? You have to be trolls to come on here and spew what would be universally criticized by any sampling of legitimate NFL analysts.

10 deep. :D

My guess is blockhead = irongut
And williar.

The Sodfather
02-23-2011, 07:29 AM
My guess is blockhead = irongut


I don't know about that but irongut is a blockhead.

I'd say there is a 43% chance of that being true.

The Sodfather
02-23-2011, 07:35 AM
they'll see the vaunted phil rivers start out slow and have his team down by 2-3 scores and have them heave the ball up to make the game seem closer then it was.

107-10.

That's the number of the deficits the Chargers had in seven losses this season. Then scrap time Phil got his stats.


You know I just had this very "debate" with a guy in PA about 6 weeks ago. Now I have some numbers to back it up. Beautiful................


:tt1

Oviedo
02-23-2011, 09:18 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

There is no way you guys are this stupid...right? You have to be trolls to come on here and spew what would be universally criticized by any sampling of legitimate NFL analysts.

10 deep. :D

I think they can be that stupid. Put any of those QBs behind our OL and then take bets on how many actually make it through the season let alone put up good numbers and win games.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 10:41 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

There is no way you guys are this stupid...right? You have to be trolls to come on here and spew what would be universally criticized by any sampling of legitimate NFL analysts.

10 deep. :D

I think they can be that stupid. Put any of those QBs behind our OL and then take bets on how many actually make it through the season let alone put up good numbers and win games.

Put any of those QB's behind our OL and watch the ball come out quick as hell. Let's stop with the delusion. These other QB's don't have the size and weight Ben has to even think about holding the ball, shaking off DL's and throwing a pass.

williar
02-23-2011, 11:26 AM
It's quite simple for me. I have an appreciation for those QB's (Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rogers, Ryan, etc.) because they know how to put points on the board. That is what I expect from my offense/QB. These QB's have the proven ability to run their offense flawlessly, lead their teams down the field and score touchdowns.

I don't look foward to winning games 12-9 Roethlisberger style. I want my QB to be the smartest guy on the field, I don't care if he can run around and shake off lineman. Get rid of the damn football and you won't have to take sacks, jughead.

In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 11:31 AM
Appears you are confusing team accomplishment with individual accomplishment.

P. Manning, Brees, Brady, & Rivers played the position with more consistency then Ben over the past few seasons. Those teams offenses consistently out performed the Steelers offenses and QB play is the biggest factor. More point production results from QB play.

I watched many games. You're the one quoting stats. If you want to compare stats, you will see that those QB's threw more TD's then Ben. Those QB lead offenses scored more PPG. That "fantasy football" production would be good for the Steelers offense and ultimately for the team. Fans want this offense to score more points. Contrary to what some people try to insinuate(stats don't matter), fantasy football stats help teams win games. I haven't played fantasy football for about 2 seasons. It's not a big hobby of mine.

Ben's been good for the Steelers. That being said, I don't think he's played at a consistently high enough level to help take the Steelers offense to another level. I feel that Ben needs to play with more consistency for the offense to take the next step and become a more consistent force. I won't be upset if you disagree.

Ohh so according to you Ben wins because of Defense but Steelers lose because of Ben. whereas Cheatroits,Colts Chargers win because of their play and lose because of their Defense.. Got it. That some stupid double standard.

Where did I make that statement? I take it you heard that some place else?

When did football became an individual game??? So you are telling Peyton played horrible this season because he sucked. It had nothing to do with injuries to his O-line or WRs?? You agree on that??? Wow..thats some progress.... :lol:

I will make it simple for you. Peyton played the position with more consistency then Ben.

Okay let me tell you one thing. Philip Rivers scored garbage TDs more often than not. Chargers had Top-3 defense in NFL and still they could not reach playoffs. Again if you ever decide to watch games you might know about it.

Rivers played the position with more consistency then Ben.

Can you tell me why Tom Brady sucked big time in playoffs?? You are telling me Tom Brady had nothing to do with that?? He has not won a playoff game past 3 season. Thats inconsistency for you. He cannot win a big game for you without cheating. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again, Tom Brady played the position with more consistency then Ben.

My 2 cents next time don't keep changing criteria/rules for QB you love. Keep the rules same it might change your opinion.

My 2 cents, read and attempt to comprehend my position on the issue. One reason the Steelers offense was an inconsistent force was because of the lack of consistency from the Steelers QB. That simple enough?


I thought you had some brains but i guess you flushed it somewhere. Again watch some games and then open your trap.

Rivers is more consistent than Ben.. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Peyton Manning was more consistent than Ben last season.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Tom Brady is more consistent than Ben in post season...oh yeah right.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Please just don't click on Box Score and talk about consistency.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 11:35 AM
It's quite simple for me. I have an appreciation for those QB's (Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rogers, Ryan, etc.) because they know how to put points on the board. That is what I expect from my offense/QB. These QB's have the proven ability to run their offense flawlessly, lead their teams down the field and score touchdowns.

I don't look foward to winning games 12-9 Roethlisberger style. I want my QB to be the smartest guy on the field, I don't care if he can run around and shake off lineman. Get rid of the damn football and you won't have to take sacks, jughead.

In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......

So by putting up 30 points make a QB smart????So you will take a 41-30 loss over a 12-9 win??? Hey your QB put 30 points he must be smart. Are you really that stupid??

How did Ryan played against packers at home??? Care to elaborate?? Ohh BTW how did Ryan played against Steelers???

BTW one stat Steelers Offense has put more than 20 points in every playoff game they have played with Ben as QB.

Hey by any chance are you that Brownie fan who like to paint johnson on his face??

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 11:36 AM
My guess is blockhead = irongut


I don't know about that but irongut is a blockhead.

I'd say there is a 43% chance of that being true.


:lol:

The Sodfather
02-23-2011, 11:39 AM
In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......


JFC....................


:?

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 11:40 AM
I am not a delusional Roethlisberger fan. I don't think he's as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers; shoot-I'll even take Matt Ryan. Replace Ben with any of these QB's and our offense would be lethal.

Our offense still struggles, badly and it is not on par with the defense. If our defense doesn't play great and hold the opponent to under 14-17 points than more often we lose. You cannot give Ben the football and tell him to go win me the game. He does not have the ability to beat you with his arm. The guy is not a good passer. But yeah, he can take a monster hit and keep on going.
I'd agree with that. Ben couldn't run the offense of the Patriots, Colts, certainly not the Saints, Green Bay, Atlanta or San Diego to the same efficiency but it's pretty clear to see any of them could come in here and improve our production.

There is no way you guys are this stupid...right? You have to be trolls to come on here and spew what would be universally criticized by any sampling of legitimate NFL analysts.

10 deep. :D

I think they can be that stupid. Put any of those QBs behind our OL and then take bets on how many actually make it through the season let alone put up good numbers and win games.

Put any of those QB's behind our OL and watch the ball come out quick as hell. Let's stop with the delusion. These other QB's don't have the size and weight Ben has to even think about holding the ball, shaking off DL's and throwing a pass.


What happened to Tom brady against Jets?? I guess ball did not come out pretty quickly. What about Rivers who can't take a team to playoff inspite of having talent across the board. Matt Ryan could not score a thing against the same packers defense on their home turf.

williar
02-23-2011, 11:48 AM
It's quite simple for me. I have an appreciation for those QB's (Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Rogers, Ryan, etc.) because they know how to put points on the board. That is what I expect from my offense/QB. These QB's have the proven ability to run their offense flawlessly, lead their teams down the field and score touchdowns.

I don't look foward to winning games 12-9 Roethlisberger style. I want my QB to be the smartest guy on the field, I don't care if he can run around and shake off lineman. Get rid of the damn football and you won't have to take sacks, jughead.

In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......

So by putting up 30 points make a QB smart????So you will take a 41-30 loss over a 12-9 win??? Hey your QB put 30 points he must be smart. Are you really that stupid??

How did Ryan played against packers at home??? Care to elaborate?? Ohh BTW how did Ryan played against Steelers???

BTW one stat Steelers Offense has put more than 20 points in every playoff game they have played with Ben as QB.

Hey by any chance are you that Brownie fan who like to paint johnson on his face??

That's not really what I'm saying, but thanks anyways!

williar
02-23-2011, 11:50 AM
In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......


JFC....................

What does that mean? I was hoping maybe you could share some insight.... I guess I expected too much... Sorry!


:?

williar
02-23-2011, 11:55 AM
Why does the delusional Rothlisberger fans get sooooo defensive? I mean, this is just a discussion, right? Don't we all have the same right to express our our opinions without be called "doo doo head" and "stinky-breath" and other romper room references ???

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Why does the delusional Rothlisberger fans get sooooo defensive? I mean, this is just a discussion, right? Don't we all have the same right to express our our opinions without be called "doo doo head" and "stinky-breath" and other romper room references ???
Because they know the criticism of Ben's play is true and justified and it drives them nuts.

The Sodfather
02-23-2011, 12:03 PM
In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......


JFC....................

What does that mean? I was hoping maybe you could share some insight.... I guess I expected too much... Sorry!


:?

The only thing sorry was your idiotic statement.

Crash
02-23-2011, 12:47 PM
Put any of those QB's behind our OL and watch the ball come out quick as hell. Let's stop with the delusion. These other QB's don't have the size and weight Ben has to even think about holding the ball, shaking off DL's and throwing a pass.

Ben doesn't shake off DL's as much as people claim. Because he's 6-5 and mobile that's the perception.

But as usual, that's not reality either.

Ben is fairly easy to hit/sack if you get the chance. The difference is he doesn't let you because he moves around.

Go watch Carson Palmer against the Jets in the playoffs. The first sign of trouble he did what you dimwits wanted and threw the ball out of bounds. He was a scared rabbit, and played like it.

But hey, at least he didn't get sacked.

Is that what you guys want Ben to be?

Crash
02-23-2011, 12:50 PM
Just remember, Matt Ryan doesn't get to bring the Georgia Dome with him either.

Crash
02-23-2011, 01:07 PM
Ben's career home/road splits.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Now before someone mentions Rodgers? His road record in the regular season is 10-16.

Bye now.

williar
02-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Put any of those QB's behind our OL and watch the ball come out quick as hell. Let's stop with the delusion. These other QB's don't have the size and weight Ben has to even think about holding the ball, shaking off DL's and throwing a pass.

Ben doesn't shake off DL's as much as people claim. Because he's 6-5 and mobile that's the perception.

But as usual, that's not reality either.

Ben is fairly easy to hit/sack if you get the chance. The difference is he doesn't let you because he moves around.

Go watch Carson Palmer against the Jets in the playoffs. The first sign of trouble he did what you dimwits wanted and threw the ball out of bounds. He was a scared rabbit, and played like it.

But hey, at least he didn't get sacked.

Is that what you guys want Ben to be?

No, not at all. Do you ever wonder why when we face elite QB's our defense never seems to be able to get hand on them, rattle them, disrupt their flow, etc, and some of these QB's have the mobility of a turtle ... I believe it's because they make quick decisions and can get the ball to the open man. I never see these QB's holding the ball like Ben does, if they do they'll get sacked or pressured too.

Crash
02-23-2011, 01:37 PM
I never see these QB's holding the ball like Ben does

I didn't see Peyton Manning making quick decisions when we blitzed him in the playoffs, did you? He took what? Two sacks on that drive before Bettis' fumble? Peyton also took a sack against the Chargers on his own goal line (again) in the playoffs needing 3 yards to advance. Where was the quick decisions from him?

Rex Ryan's Jets are 3-2 vs. Brady. Why? They don't fear him, and they go after him.

LeBeau's too chickensh*t to even try.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 02:00 PM
What happened to Tom brady against Jets?? I guess ball did not come out pretty quickly. What about Rivers who can't take a team to playoff inspite of having talent across the board. Matt Ryan could not score a thing against the same packers defense on their home turf.

What happened to Ben against the Pats?

I don't understand the logic... you pull out one loss and say what happened? No one is saying every game by Brees, Brady, Manning and Ben is perfection.

I don't think anyone is even arguing wins vs. losses. They are talking about consistent production at the QB position.

Crash
02-23-2011, 02:10 PM
I don't think anyone is even arguing wins vs. losses. They are talking about consistent production at the QB position.

Career home/road splits for Ben.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Just because you guys say it, doesn't make it true.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 02:53 PM
What happened to Tom brady against Jets?? I guess ball did not come out pretty quickly. What about Rivers who can't take a team to playoff inspite of having talent across the board. Matt Ryan could not score a thing against the same packers defense on their home turf.

What happened to Ben against the Pats?

He did a Philip Rivers in that game. As per you,blockhead and williar Ben was a Consistent performer since he put 26 points/350+ yards passing in that game. So as per your logic it is a good CONSISTENT performance ala Rivers, manning.


I don't understand the logic... you pull out one loss and say what happened? No one is saying every game by Brees, Brady, Manning and Ben is perfection.


But you don't mind putting one SB loss and calling out Ben being inconsistent. You are telling me Ben did not perform better than Manning and Brees last season??????? You got to be kidding me.

Again look at the stats provided by Crash.


I don't think anyone is even arguing wins vs. losses. They are talking about consistent production at the QB position.

To me a QB who can consistently make plays so that his team can win is a consistent QB. Just by throwing slants or releasing the ball quickly does not make a consistent QB.
Scoring points is not the only criteria for consistency. Its always about how you score and when you score. Collecting garbage TDs or running score don't make anyone a consistent QB.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 02:57 PM
FF killed the brains of many. All they see are stats. All they look at are box scores. There is not a one of these guys posting garbage that watch other teams and could label themselves "football" fans. True football fans watch other teams, not just stat lines and box scores.

I have found it's not even worth arguing with them.

Crash
02-23-2011, 03:05 PM
Here's the great Matty Ice's home/road splits.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00/splits/)

THAT IS AN INCONSISTENT QB PEOPLE!

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 03:13 PM
FF killed the brains of many. All they see are stats. All they look at are box scores. There is not a one of these guys posting garbage that watch other teams and could label themselves "football" fans. True football fans watch other teams, not just stat lines and box scores.

I have found it's not even worth arguing with them.

Unfortunately that is so true.

People go on yahoo box score and talk about consistency :lol:

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 04:05 PM
What happened to Ben against the Pats?

He did a Philip Rivers in that game.
Exactly. Ben was awful and did little to nothing until the second half when the Pats went into prevent and save the lead mode. The same things Crash lists as reasons he wants LeBeau gone.

To me, it's not about stats. It's about rhythm of the offense and consistentcy. We have no rhythm and many games that should be blow outs are left up to late drives to consistently win or the defense making a gamechanging play to win.

Anyone who calls our offense consistent or says it has rhythm doesn't watch the games. Period.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 04:25 PM
What happened to Ben against the Pats?

He did a Philip Rivers in that game.
Exactly. Ben was awful and did little to nothing until the second half when the Pats went into prevent and save the lead mode. The same things Crash lists as reasons he wants LeBeau gone.

To me, it's not about stats. It's about rhythm of the offense and consistentcy. We have no rhythm and many games that should be blow outs are left up to late drives to consistently win or the defense making a gamechanging play to win.

Anyone who calls our offense consistent or says it has rhythm doesn't watch the games. Period.


OMG mark this thread.....You finally confessed Rivers is awful...... :Bow :lol:

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 04:32 PM
What happened to Ben against the Pats?

He did a Philip Rivers in that game.
Exactly. Ben was awful and did little to nothing until the second half when the Pats went into prevent and save the lead mode. The same things Crash lists as reasons he wants LeBeau gone.

To me, it's not about stats. It's about rhythm of the offense and consistentcy. We have no rhythm and many games that should be blow outs are left up to late drives to consistently win or the defense making a gamechanging play to win.

Anyone who calls our offense consistent or says it has rhythm doesn't watch the games. Period.


OMG mark this thread.....You finally confessed Rivers is awful...... :Bow :lol:
That he did. :lol: :lol:

But he is too stupid to know it and that is the best part. :lol: :lol:

Oviedo
02-23-2011, 04:45 PM
FF killed the brains of many. All they see are stats. All they look at are box scores. There is not a one of these guys posting garbage that watch other teams and could label themselves "football" fans. True football fans watch other teams, not just stat lines and box scores.

I have found it's not even worth arguing with them.

Unfortunately that is so true.

People go on yahoo box score and talk about consistency :lol:

:Agree :Agree FF has destroyed people's ability to evaluate players and football in a lmore systematic concept. It has become all about the numbers which have no context and there is so much they do not see. Example: Our defense is rated #1 so no problems. :stirpot

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 04:49 PM
OMG mark this thread.....You finally confessed Rivers is awful...... :Bow :lol:

Glad you feel that way. I have less than 30 posts on this site but my opinion of Rivers is he's a better distributor of the ball than Ben. He's better at being a QB but he isn't the athlete Ben is.

As the title of this thread says, Ben could be scary good. He isn't.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 04:51 PM
OMG mark this thread.....You finally confessed Rivers is awful...... :Bow :lol:

Glad you feel that way. I have less than 30 posts on this site but my opinion of Rivers is he's a better distributor of the ball than Ben. He's better at being a QB but he isn't the athlete Ben is.

As the title of this thread says, Ben could be scary good. He isn't.
The title of this thread should be:

43/irongut is about to show his level of stupidity.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 05:30 PM
What happened to Tom brady against Jets?? I guess ball did not come out pretty quickly. What about Rivers who can't take a team to playoff inspite of having talent across the board. Matt Ryan could not score a thing against the same packers defense on their home turf.

What happened to Ben against the Pats?

He did a Philip Rivers in that game. As per you,blockhead and williar Ben was a Consistent performer since he put 26 points/350+ yards passing in that game. So as per your logic it is a good CONSISTENT performance ala Rivers, manning.


I don't understand the logic... you pull out one loss and say what happened? No one is saying every game by Brees, Brady, Manning and Ben is perfection.


But you don't mind putting one SB loss and calling out Ben being inconsistent. You are telling me Ben did not perform better than Manning and Brees last season??????? You got to be kidding me.

Again look at the stats provided by Crash.


I don't think anyone is even arguing wins vs. losses. They are talking about consistent production at the QB position.

To me a QB who can consistently make plays so that his team can win is a consistent QB. Just by throwing slants or releasing the ball quickly does not make a consistent QB.
Scoring points is not the only criteria for consistency. Its always about how you score and when you score. Collecting garbage TDs or running score don't make anyone a consistent QB.



1st: my point for asking about the Pats game was just to show that any QB can have a bad game. I don't understand how people use one game to prove Brees, Rivers, Brady.. etc. aren't good/elite. I'm not saying Rivers is elite... he has the skills but mentally he is weak.

2nd: I never used this SB loss as proof of anything. Ben had a horrible SBXL but it doesn't erase his playoff run in 2005. One game or one throw doesn't define a QB.

3rd: I agree.. points don't equal success at the QB position. Fantasy stats aren't proof either. I think film is the best indicator and when I watch Ben, Manning, Brees and Brady I don't see Ben as being the best of the bunch at QB. He is the best football player and the best athlete but he isn't the best QB.

Our D gets blame but those guys keep us in a ton of games. More then most teams...

Crash
02-23-2011, 06:00 PM
I didn't see Peyton Manning making quick decisions when we blitzed him in the playoffs, did you? He took what? Two sacks on that drive before Bettis' fumble? Peyton also took a sack against the Chargers on his own goal line (again) in the playoffs needing 3 yards to advance. Where was the quick decisions from him?

Anyone? Anyone?

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 06:20 PM
FF killed the brains of many. All they see are stats. All they look at are box scores. There is not a one of these guys posting garbage that watch other teams and could label themselves "football" fans. True football fans watch other teams, not just stat lines and box scores.

I have found it's not even worth arguing with them.

Unfortunately that is so true.

People go on yahoo box score and talk about consistency :lol:

:Agree :Agree FF has destroyed people's ability to evaluate players and football in a lmore systematic concept. It has become all about the numbers which have no context and there is so much they do not see. Example: Our defense is rated #1 so no problems. :stirpot


:Agree

Crash
02-23-2011, 06:22 PM
Our D gets blame but those guys keep us in a ton of games.

Not as many as you think.

Certainly not in the Ben era.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 06:22 PM
OMG mark this thread.....You finally confessed Rivers is awful...... :Bow :lol:

Glad you feel that way. I have less than 30 posts on this site but my opinion of Rivers is he's a better distributor of the ball than Ben. He's better at being a QB but he isn't the athlete Ben is.

As the title of this thread says, Ben could be scary good. He isn't.

"CAN BE" -- FUTURE...Article is talking about future....Ben is on the doorsteps of HOF right now and another SB appearance and he should be in Canton.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 06:23 PM
What happened to Ben against the Pats?

He did a Philip Rivers in that game.
Exactly. Ben was awful and did little to nothing until the second half when the Pats went into prevent and save the lead mode. The same things Crash lists as reasons he wants LeBeau gone.

To me, it's not about stats. It's about rhythm of the offense and consistentcy. We have no rhythm and many games that should be blow outs are left up to late drives to consistently win or the defense making a gamechanging play to win.

Anyone who calls our offense consistent or says it has rhythm doesn't watch the games. Period.


OMG mark this thread.....You finally confessed Rivers is awful...... :Bow :lol:
That he did. :lol: :lol:

But he is too stupid to know it and that is the best part. :lol: :lol:


So true....

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 06:28 PM
I didn't see Peyton Manning making quick decisions when we blitzed him in the playoffs, did you? He took what? Two sacks on that drive before Bettis' fumble? Peyton also took a sack against the Chargers on his own goal line (again) in the playoffs needing 3 yards to advance. Where was the quick decisions from him?

Anyone? Anyone?

3 plays out of 6000+ :lol:

You can't be serious...

Crash
02-23-2011, 06:31 PM
I didn't see Peyton Manning making quick decisions when we blitzed him in the playoffs, did you? He took what? Two sacks on that drive before Bettis' fumble? Peyton also took a sack against the Chargers on his own goal line (again) in the playoffs needing 3 yards to advance. Where was the quick decisions from him?

Anyone? Anyone?

3 plays out of 6000+ :lol:

You can't be serious...

How about a 9-10 playoff record?

I could care less when Peyton beats up scrubs. If people didn't give Peyton a free pass because Archie Manning played on bad teams they would see Peyton Manning for the UNDERACHIEVER he really is.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 06:39 PM
I didn't see Peyton Manning making quick decisions when we blitzed him in the playoffs, did you? He took what? Two sacks on that drive before Bettis' fumble? Peyton also took a sack against the Chargers on his own goal line (again) in the playoffs needing 3 yards to advance. Where was the quick decisions from him?

Anyone? Anyone?

3 plays out of 6000+ :lol:

You can't be serious...

How about a 9-10 playoff record?

I could care less when Peyton beats up scrubs. If people didn't give Peyton a free pass because Archie Manning played on bad teams they would see Peyton Manning for the UNDERACHIEVER he really is.


I will agree with feltdizz about consistency regarding Peyton manning though. He consistently chokes in playoffs.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 06:46 PM
1st: my point for asking about the Pats game was just to show that any QB can have a bad game. I don't understand how people use one game to prove Brees, Rivers, Brady.. etc. aren't good/elite. I'm not saying Rivers is elite... he has the skills but mentally he is weak.

Did anyone say Manning,Brady Rivers are not elite???But if you wanna put them in elite group and bash Ben for consistency and bring him down then obviously its case of dissecting each throw made by Ben whereas watching boxscore for other QBs.

Again do you believe did Manning, Brees or Rivers played better in regular season than Ben last season???

Crash
02-23-2011, 06:48 PM
They won't answer. They never do.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 06:54 PM
Our D gets blame but those guys keep us in a ton of games.

Not as many as you think.

Certainly not in the Ben era.

That is a flat out lie....

"I was tired of being booed," Roethlisberger said, "I was tired of being embarrassed on offense. I told the guys that. I said, 'There's no need for it.' "

Our D is responsible for over half the wins in the Ben era. This is the problem with guys like you.. you can't give anyone else on the team any credit. It's all Ben.

We saw what happens when Ben puts up crazy stats and the D doesn't show up. We miss the playoffs and struggle to beat bad teams.

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:00 PM
"I was tired of being booed," Roethlisberger said, "I was tired of being embarrassed on offense. I told the guys that. I said, 'There's no need for it.' "

One game? Baltimore 2008, correct?


e saw what happens when Ben puts up crazy stats and the D doesn't show up. We miss the playoffs and struggle to beat bad teams.

Give back points have been a problem for 4 years with this defense.

And that's why they missed the 2009 playoffs.

The game at Baltimore in 2009 gave you guys exactly what you want: Smashmouth football, and no pass happy Ben.

And what happened? Dennis Dixon scored a TD, and the defense gave up a tying field goal when ONE STOP, would have won the game.

Just like XLIII. We score a TD and go up 10-0, the defense gets on the field for the SECOND TIME ALL DAY, and gives up a TD.

I guess they were gassed after five plays on the first series.

williar
02-23-2011, 07:01 PM
Defense wins championships. You saw what happen when our defense couldn't lock down the packers after our offense spotted them 14 points. Our offense led by Ben wasn't good enough to outscore the packers. Result-loss in XLV.

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:04 PM
Defense wins championships. You saw what happen when our defense couldn't lock down the packers after our offense spotted them 14 points.

The defense gave up a long drive and a TD before Ben threw any picks. Second drive of the game (just like in Tampa).

I guess they were tired then too.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 07:06 PM
I didn't see Peyton Manning making quick decisions when we blitzed him in the playoffs, did you? He took what? Two sacks on that drive before Bettis' fumble? Peyton also took a sack against the Chargers on his own goal line (again) in the playoffs needing 3 yards to advance. Where was the quick decisions from him?

Anyone? Anyone?

3 plays out of 6000+ :lol:

You can't be serious...

How about a 9-10 playoff record?

I could care less when Peyton beats up scrubs. If people didn't give Peyton a free pass because Archie Manning played on bad teams they would see Peyton Manning for the UNDERACHIEVER he really is.

I never said Peyton was an awesome post season QB. I'd take Ben over Peyton in the playoffs. Hell, I'd take Ben over any QB in the playoffs on our team. I'm not looking to trade Ben... the discussion is about production at the QB position.

Peyton has a losing record in the playoffs because he makes them every year. If we make the playoffs every year for the next 7 years the playoff losses will increase... if they don't then Ben is surely the best QB to ever play the game because he will have 10 SB appearances.

NJ-STEELER
02-23-2011, 07:11 PM
In probably the most pivitol play of XLV when Mendy got crushed in the backfield, I know the OL/TE whiffed on blocks, but should that play have even been ran? Doesn't the QB have some responsibility to recognize a breakdown (pre-snap read) and make an audible? It's thing like that, makes you shake your head......


JFC....................


:?

an idiot statement like that tells me all i need to know about how some fans will never give ben any credit and think up bullchit to bash him.

NJ-STEELER
02-23-2011, 07:14 PM
Defense wins championships. You saw what happen when our defense couldn't lock down the packers after our offense spotted them 14 points. Our offense led by Ben wasn't good enough to outscore the packers. Result-loss in XLV.


wow

out offense wasnt as good as the packers? really? how many games did you watch to come up with that? thats some fascinating analysis

someone get this guy a gig on a network

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:14 PM
Peyton has a losing record in the playoffs because he makes them every year.

Oh boy. I hate to do this, I really do.

The Colts made the playoffs 5 times in Peyton's first 7 seasons:

Peyton's playoff record at the time?

Three wins, five losses.

Ben Roethlisberger has also made the playoffs five times in his first seven seasons just like Peyton Manning.

Ben's playoff record?

10 wins, three losses.

Next excuse please.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 07:17 PM
[quote]"I was tired of being booed," Roethlisberger said, "I was tired of being embarrassed on offense. I told the guys that. I said, 'There's no need for it.' "

One game? Baltimore 2008, correct?


e saw what happens when Ben puts up crazy stats and the D doesn't show up. We miss the playoffs and struggle to beat bad teams.

Give back points have been a problem for 4 years with this defense.

And that's why they missed the 2009 playoffs.

The game at Baltimore in 2009 gave you guys exactly what you want: Smashmouth football, and no pass happy Ben.

And what happened? Dennis Dixon scored a TD, and the defense gave up a tying field goal when ONE STOP, would have won the game.

Just like XLIII. We score a TD and go up 10-0, the defense gets on the field for the SECOND TIME ALL DAY, and gives up a TD.

I guess they were gassed after five plays on the first series.[/quote:5qrlpeuf]

correct.. but it's not the only time Ben has said the D has carried the team. From 2004 to 2008 the D has been incredible.

The second half of SB XL was the first time we started to see the D start to show cracks in the secondary.

We also shut down the run at an amazing rate.. I don't see how anyone can say the D hasn't been awesome in the Ben era outside of 2009.

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:23 PM
From 2004 to 2008 the D has been incredible.

And for the most part Roethlisberger and his offense has played well also.

You guys act like Ben's offense scores three points a week.

Like Bradshaw, you will only appreciate how good he is once he's not here anymore.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Peyton has a losing record in the playoffs because he makes them every year.

Oh boy. I hate to do this, I really do.

The Colts made the playoffs 5 times in Peyton's first 7 seasons:

Peyton's playoff record at the time?

Three wins, five losses.

Ben Roethlisberger has also made the playoffs five times in his first seven seasons just like Peyton Manning.

Ben's playoff record?

10 wins, three losses.

Next excuse please.

Peyton was the first piece of the Colts puzzle...

Ben was the last piece needed in the Steeler puzzle...

no excuses, just facts.... if you think the talent level on the Colts the first 5 years was anywhere close to the Steelers you are on dust.

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:27 PM
Peyton was the first piece of the Colts puzzle...

Ben was the last piece needed in the Steeler puzzle...

You keep digging a bigger hole.

The Steelers missed the playoffs 4 times in the previous 6 years before Ben.

Just like the Colts prior to Manning.

So now I'll hear from one of you idiots: "But Crash, the Steelers made the playoffs in 2 of the 3 seasons prior to Ben, that's a better barometer".

Well guess what? So did the Indianapolis Colts before Manning.

The same exact situation for both teams.

Next?

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 07:36 PM
From 2004 to 2008 the D has been incredible.

And for the most part Roethlisberger and his offense has played well also.

You guys act like Ben's offense scores three points a week.

Like Bradshaw, you will only appreciate how good he is once he's not here anymore.

You think anyone who says Ben can get better and points out other QB's who have skill sets we think Ben could use in his arsenal has some lack of appreciation for Ben.

Ask anyone on here if they thought Ben was going to pull out the win in the SB and I bet you 99% of us would agree. I was confident he would pull it off.

You said Ben was a 6 in the SB. Why can't we discuss the other 4 points that could make him a 10?

I appreciate everything Ben has done... he exceeded my expectations and if he never made it to another SB he is a HOFer IMO.

But that doesn't mean I won't pick his game apart... I don't care who the QB is, if he lacks certain skill sets I think would improve our team I'll speak on them.

I'm a Steeler fan from Pittsburgh... :tt2 It's like family... we should be able to talk about any Steeler in a positive or negative light to each other without someone questioning our love for the player or team.

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:38 PM
But that doesn't mean I won't pick his game apart

But unlike ME, you don't pick anyone else apart.

You make every excuse under the sun for every QB not named Ben Roethlisberger.

You form your opinion based on what you read.

I'll watch the games and follow the league.

You guys don't know anything. If you did you would see that when we DO play to Ben's strength, he's pretty much unstoppable.

But when we waste time appeasing morons who insist on power formations and 1975 football? We are a predictable, unproductive mess.

NJ-STEELER
02-23-2011, 07:46 PM
how good would our offense be if we didnt give away/let go receivers we drafted inn the first round and replace them with 3rd rounders and sub par talent (EL/wilson)

Crash
02-23-2011, 07:53 PM
how good would our offense be if we didnt give away/let go receivers we drafted inn the first round and replace them with 3rd rounders and sub par talent (EL/wilson)

How much better would we be if Ben had STABILITY at wideout like the great Peyton did? Peyton had Harrison/Wayne at WR for seven of 8 years from 2001-2008.

Ben, in seven years to start his career, has had FIVE DIFFERENT #1-#2 combos starting for him.

Which makes his Joe Montana-like production all the more remarkable.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 07:55 PM
Peyton was the first piece of the Colts puzzle...

Ben was the last piece needed in the Steeler puzzle...

You keep digging a bigger hole.

The Steelers missed the playoffs 4 times in the previous 6 years before Ben.

Just like the Colts prior to Manning.

So now I'll hear from one of you idiots: "But Crash, the Steelers made the playoffs in 2 of the 3 seasons prior to Ben, that's a better barometer".

Well guess what? So did the Indianapolis Colts before Manning.

The same exact situation for both teams.

Next?


LOL... the talent on those 2 rosters the first year are night and day. We had 3 All Pro's and 6 pro bowlers on our 2004 team. Just to name a few we had:

A.Smith, Troy, Deshea, Porter, Farrior, Von Olhoffe, Foote
Hines, Plex, Hartings, Faneca Kreider, Bettis....

Colts had one... Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison... and I can't even list a defender worth mentioning besides Tyrone Poole.

We also got Lebeau back in 2004.It's funny how you never acknowledge Lebeau's return in 2004. I wonder why?

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 07:58 PM
how good would our offense be if we didnt give away/let go receivers we drafted inn the first round and replace them with 3rd rounders and sub par talent (EL/wilson)
It would be more consistent and more productive.

Crash
02-23-2011, 08:06 PM
LOL... the talent on those 2 rosters the first year are night and day.

And yet the Steelers, like the supposedly inferior talented Colts with Manning also missed the playoffs in 4 of 6 seasons prior to Ben.

BURGH86STEEL
02-23-2011, 08:08 PM
how good would our offense be if we didnt give away/let go receivers we drafted inn the first round and replace them with 3rd rounders and sub par talent (EL/wilson)

That would depend on how well Ben played. It does not matter what weapons are placed on an offense if the QB can't or does not deliver the ball. Plenty of offensive weapons struggle do to poor or inconsistent QB play. I am of the opinion that the Steelers offense falls short of some others around the league because of the lack of consistency from the QB position. That does not mean Ben is a bad player. Nor does it mean he needs to be traded. There are areas of Ben's game that I feel he needs to improve to help take this offense to a top 5 level.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 08:15 PM
But that doesn't mean I won't pick his game apart

But unlike ME, you don't pick anyone else apart.

You make every excuse under the sun for every QB not named Ben Roethlisberger.

You form your opinion based on what you read.

I'll watch the games and follow the league.

You guys don't know anything. If you did you would see that when we DO play to Ben's strength, he's pretty much unstoppable.

But when we waste time appeasing morons who insist on power formations and 1975 football? We are a predictable, unproductive mess.

homerism at it's best. :roll:

I don't make excuses for other QB's... you just rip every other QB to prove Ben is the best...

I think Ben is top 5 but he isn't the best QB in the NFL.

I have always said if I had one game to win I take Ben. Ben is a winner... but since i don't slob him all day you think I hate him.

I've said countless times Peyton can't win the big games, gets all the calls and never beat Florida... but I'm not going to lie to myself and say he choked in the Jets playoff game when he put his team up and ST's and the D gave it right back. That isn't making excuses it's being honest about how the end of the game played out.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 08:18 PM
But that doesn't mean I won't pick his game apart

But unlike ME, you don't pick anyone else apart.

You make every excuse under the sun for every QB not named Ben Roethlisberger.

You form your opinion based on what you read.

I'll watch the games and follow the league.

You guys don't know anything. If you did you would see that when we DO play to Ben's strength, he's pretty much unstoppable.

But when we waste time appeasing morons who insist on power formations and 1975 football? We are a predictable, unproductive mess.

homerism at it's best. :roll:
As a white man, you justr offended me.

Crash
02-23-2011, 08:18 PM
I am of the opinion that the Steelers offense falls short of some others around the league because of the lack of consistency from the QB position

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Show us, point it out.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 08:23 PM
I am of the opinion that the Steelers offense falls short of some others around the league because of the lack of consistency from the QB position

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Show us, point it out.
They can't. So they just keep posting lie after lie...mistruth after mistruth...in hopes noboby is smart enough to see their crap and prove them wrong. Typical.

They could save themselves from looking like jack-asses by looking up stuff but, then again, that would time away from their writing bulls hit.

feltdizz
02-23-2011, 08:26 PM
But that doesn't mean I won't pick his game apart

But unlike ME, you don't pick anyone else apart.

You make every excuse under the sun for every QB not named Ben Roethlisberger.

You form your opinion based on what you read.

I'll watch the games and follow the league.

You guys don't know anything. If you did you would see that when we DO play to Ben's strength, he's pretty much unstoppable.

But when we waste time appeasing morons who insist on power formations and 1975 football? We are a predictable, unproductive mess.

homerism at it's best. :roll:
As a white man, you justr offended me.

:Clap

Crash
02-23-2011, 08:30 PM
Look at these home and road splits.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00/splits/)

Just awful.

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 08:43 PM
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/02/23/when ... roethlisb/ (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/02/23/when-it-comes-to-holding-the-ball-joe-flacco-tops-ben-roethlisb/)

Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger has deservedly developed a reputation as the quarterback who creates his own sacks. The Steelers' quarterback believes that he can dodge or shrug off pass rushers. And because of that he extends plays, buying time. Sometimes it leads to a big play, sometimes it leads to a sack.

Roethlisberger may be known for extending plays (and racking up high sack totals), but Baltimore's Joe Flacco was actually the king of holding the ball too long in 2010. In logging the time of each and every sack in the NFL in 2010, Flacco's 25 sacks of 3.1 seconds or more were five more than anyone else in the league.

I chose three seconds as the demarcation line because it's a pretty fair cutoff point for where a sack can no longer be blamed on a quarterback's blockers. The median sack time in the NFL last year was 2.7 seconds, just as it was in 2009. Obviously a line should be able to hold a three-man rush back longer than a eight-man all-out blitz, but for practical purposes, three seconds is the point where a quarterback should generally know that he has to get rid of the ball.

The leaderboard of the over-time sacks is filled with names you may expect. Flacco and Roethlisberger lead the way, but Chicago's Jay Cutler isn't far behind. Michael Vick's legs get him out of trouble a lot, but they also mean that he will also rack up some sacks.

At the other end of the spectrum, Peyton Manning has an internal clock that simply doesn't allow him the hold the ball for long. Only one of his 15 sacks last season was when he held the ball for three seconds or more. It runs in the family as Eli Manning also had only one long sack. Tennessee's Kerry Collins was also notable for very few long sacks.

BURGH86STEEL
02-23-2011, 09:20 PM
I am of the opinion that the Steelers offense falls short of some others around the league because of the lack of consistency from the QB position

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Show us, point it out.
They can't. So they just keep posting lie after lie...mistruth after mistruth...in hopes noboby is smart enough to see their crap and prove them wrong. Typical.

They could save themselves from looking like jack-asses by looking up stuff but, then again, that would time away from their writing bulls hit.

You never witnessed the times Ben held the ball to long, under threw WR's, didn't see or ignored open WR's, struggled to get the ball out quickly, appeared to struggle with his reads, struggled in the red zone when the windows got smaller, throwing with anticipation of WR's breaking routes?

Those are some struggles with consistency in Ben's game that I notice watching the games. Those are issues with consistency outside of the numbers. There were times that Ben did some of the things I mentioned above well. I don't feel he does those things well consistently. He's one reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force.

I don't believe anyone around here lies. People have opinions and are entitled to those opinions. Having opinions does not make people jackasses. Some of you people take this stuff way to seriously.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 09:21 PM
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/02/23/when-it-comes-to-holding-the-ball-joe-flacco-tops-ben-roethlisb/


.
Wow...Fanhouse.

Can you get a better point of interest?

Got to love the net. Any a ss with access to the public library puter can become an "expert" that some idiot will quote.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 09:24 PM
Oh, and if you watch the fuc king games, you will notice Manning gets happy feet and throws the ball into the stands before anyone gets near him.

But then, to know that, you would have to WATCH the games.

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Wow...Fanhouse.

Can you get a better point of interest?

Got to love the net. Any a ss with access to the public library puter can become an "expert" that some idiot will quote.

Instead of preaching your diarheaa diatribe of "watch the games" and proving that you don't, you should brush up on the internet media and internet age of media. It may help you look more educated and less foolish in the future.

Clearly, you didn't click or read the article. Was it too long or in depth for you to comprehend? It shows a breakdown of sacks under 3 seconds and over 3 seconds. Ben is better than Joe Flacco in this regard.


FanHouse is a sports website owned by AOL. Launched in September 2006, FanHouse is considered the Internet's most linked sports blog by aggregator BallHype[1], won Editor & Publisher's 2008 EPpy Award for "Best Sports Blog"[2], and was named as a finalist for the award in 2009.[3]
In January 2009, FanHouse began hiring experienced print journalists, including Jay Mariotti of the Chicago Sun-Times, Kevin Blackistone of the Dallas Morning News, and Lisa Olson of the New York Daily News. FanHouse has continued to bolster its roster, hiring writers away from the Orlando Sentinel, Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Contra Costa Times, among others. FanHouse kept its stable of traditional bloggers as well, including widely published Michael David Smith and Elie Seckbach. Upon its 2006 launch, it became the first sports blog to pay a large number of sports bloggers a per-post fee.

FanHouse is managed by executive producer Randy Kim. Previous executive producers have moved on to leadership positions at Yahoo! (Jamie Mottram), Yardbarker (Alana Nguyen) and NBC (John Clifford Ness). Many FanHouse bloggers have also moved on to other publications.

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 09:34 PM
Oh, and if you watch the fuc king games, you will notice Manning gets happy feet and throws the ball into the stands before anyone gets near him.

But then, to know that, you would have to WATCH the games.


ANYONE who denies those faults exist in Ben's game does NOT WATCH the games.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 09:42 PM
Oh, and if you watch the fuc king games, you will notice Manning gets happy feet and throws the ball into the stands before anyone gets near him.

But then, to know that, you would have to WATCH the games.


ANYONE who denies those faults exist in Ben's game does NOT WATCH the games.
Yep, talking heads from half-as sed sports shows know every thing. And they have idiots who follow it.


Ooohhhhh...Keven Blackistone....there is a real expert. He could not find his a ss with a map and a sack lunch.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 09:44 PM
Mariotti has not been around since he beat his woman.

Nice non-site you produced there.

Fanhouse=only around because ingrates like you who quote it.

You = not worth the time it takes to pi ss.

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 09:54 PM
If you care to read the facts listed, you'd see a chart, assuming you can in fact read.

If you choose to live in blind homerism, that's your decision and you're more than welcome.


JJ Cooper

J.J. Cooper has covered the NFL for Fanhouse since its inception in 2006. His focus is on analysis and coverage of the lesser-noticed aspects of the game like offensive and defensive line play. He has covered college and pro sports for 20 years with a variety of newspapers and magazines.

ScoreKeeper
02-23-2011, 09:57 PM
If you care to read the facts listed, you'd see a chart, assuming you can in fact read.

If you choose to live in blind homerism, that's your decision and you're more than welcome.


JJ Cooper

J.J. Cooper has covered the NFL for Fanhouse since its inception in 2006. His focus is on analysis and coverage of the lesser-noticed aspects of the game like offensive and defensive line play. He has covered college and pro sports for 20 years with a variety of newspapers and magazines.
Wow, JJ has been on the job for 4-5 years, has access to a computer, and he's the be all end all.

OK ....he's right.

Wowwwwwwwwfuccccckkkkkkkiiinnnnnnngggggggwweeeeeee ee!!!!!!!!

ter1230_4
02-23-2011, 09:58 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but after a lot of thought I've come to the conclusion that the major reason the Steelers lost Super Bowl XLV is the failure of our defense to come up with a big play while the Packers defense made two big plays (the pick 6 and the Mendenhall fumble). When you look back at our recent playoff history, you can see how vital a big play by our defense is to ultimate victory. In the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, Harrison's pick six was a 10 point turn around in a game the Steelers won by 4 points. In the recent AFCCG against the Jets, the strip sack by Ike which was run in for a TD was the difference in a game the Steelers won by 5 points. In the Divisional playoff game against the Ratbirds this year, Clark's strip of Ray Rice was what got the Steelers going. Every part of the team is responsible for the loss in various ways, such as Big Ben seeming to key on Wallace and miss open receivers, but if the D had made just one big play the Steelers would have won that game. Unfortuantely it was not to be.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 10:06 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but after a lot of thought I've come to the conclusion that the major reason the Steelers lost Super Bowl XLV is the failure of our defense to come up with a big play while the Packers defense made two big plays (the pick 6 and the Mendenhall fumble). When you look back at our recent playoff history, you can see how vital a big play by our defense is to ultimate victory. In the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, Harrison's pick six was a 10 point turn around in a game the Steelers won by 4 points. In the recent AFCCG against the Jets, the strip sack by Ike which was run in for a TD was the difference in a game the Steelers won by 5 points. In the Divisional playoff game against the Ratbirds this year, Clark's strip of Ray Rice was what got the Steelers going. Every part of the team is responsible for the loss in various ways, such as Big Ben seeming to key on Wallace and miss open receivers, but if the D had made just one big play the Steelers would have won that game. Unfortuantely it was not to be.

Well you committed a cardinal sin of calling out Defense.

As a rule by few Steelers fans
All Steelers losses should be attributed to Ben and Bruce Arians. OL/WR/D and ST should never ever be blamed for any losses.All Steelers win should be attributed to Steelers Defense.

:stirpot

BURGH86STEEL
02-23-2011, 10:16 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but after a lot of thought I've come to the conclusion that the major reason the Steelers lost Super Bowl XLV is the failure of our defense to come up with a big play while the Packers defense made two big plays (the pick 6 and the Mendenhall fumble). When you look back at our recent playoff history, you can see how vital a big play by our defense is to ultimate victory. In the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, Harrison's pick six was a 10 point turn around in a game the Steelers won by 4 points. In the recent AFCCG against the Jets, the strip sack by Ike which was run in for a TD was the difference in a game the Steelers won by 5 points. In the Divisional playoff game against the Ratbirds this year, Clark's strip of Ray Rice was what got the Steelers going. Every part of the team is responsible for the loss in various ways, such as Big Ben seeming to key on Wallace and miss open receivers, but if the D had made just one big play the Steelers would have won that game. Unfortuantely it was not to be.

I agree, the defense failed to stop the Packers offense. That being said, the offense can't give the ball away 3 times and expect this team to win. As you stated, every part of the team was responsible for the loss.

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 10:17 PM
I am of the opinion that the Steelers offense falls short of some others around the league because of the lack of consistency from the QB position

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Show us, point it out.
They can't. So they just keep posting lie after lie...mistruth after mistruth...in hopes noboby is smart enough to see their crap and prove them wrong. Typical.

They could save themselves from looking like jack-asses by looking up stuff but, then again, that would time away from their writing bulls hit.

You never witnessed the times Ben held the ball to long, under threw WR's, didn't see or ignored open WR's, struggled to get the ball out quickly, appeared to struggle with his reads, struggled in the red zone when the windows got smaller, throwing with anticipation of WR's breaking routes?



All QBs go through it. Just watch the QBs who you slobber on with same intensity as you watch Ben maybe you might change your opinion. If you expect QB to be on money 100% of the time then i would suggest you need to start watching Arena Football League. Pittsburgh Power.

Manning struggled few games last season. Brees struggled few games last season. Why don't you call them out.

Steelers have a vertical attack. Best in the league. They are not dink and dunk offense. Don't expect them to be and i definitely don't want them to be that offense.

hawaiiansteel
02-23-2011, 10:19 PM
All Steelers losses should be attributed to Ben and Bruce Arians. OL/WR/D and ST should never ever be blamed for any losses.All Steelers win should be attributed to Steelers Defense.
:stirpot


I think you underestimate us Steelers fans, we are perfectly capable of blaming the OL, WRs and STs for losses.

but usually it is just Bruce Arians fault... :D

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 10:34 PM
If you care to read the facts listed, you'd see a chart, assuming you can in fact read.

If you choose to live in blind homerism, that's your decision and you're more than welcome.


JJ Cooper

J.J. Cooper has covered the NFL for Fanhouse since its inception in 2006. His focus is on analysis and coverage of the lesser-noticed aspects of the game like offensive and defensive line play. He has covered college and pro sports for 20 years with a variety of newspapers and magazines.
Wow, JJ has been on the job for 4-5 years, has access to a computer, and he's the be all end all.

OK ....he's right.

Wowwwwwwwwfuccccckkkkkkkiiinnnnnnngggggggwweeeeeee ee!!!!!!!!
Actually, he's been covering sports for 20 years but I am sure you know much more. You are a genius of rare abilities.

Blockhead
02-23-2011, 10:36 PM
I know I'm late to the party, but after a lot of thought I've come to the conclusion that the major reason the Steelers lost Super Bowl XLV is the failure of our defense to come up with a big play while the Packers defense made two big plays (the pick 6 and the Mendenhall fumble). When you look back at our recent playoff history, you can see how vital a big play by our defense is to ultimate victory. In the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, Harrison's pick six was a 10 point turn around in a game the Steelers won by 4 points. In the recent AFCCG against the Jets, the strip sack by Ike which was run in for a TD was the difference in a game the Steelers won by 5 points. In the Divisional playoff game against the Ratbirds this year, Clark's strip of Ray Rice was what got the Steelers going. Every part of the team is responsible for the loss in various ways, such as Big Ben seeming to key on Wallace and miss open receivers, but if the D had made just one big play the Steelers would have won that game. Unfortuantely it was not to be.
Yes, the defense didn't win the game but they were put in bad positions by the offense and the turnovers as well as had to overcome the offense giving them points.

The defense did in fact give up less yards, points, first downs and time of possession than their defense did though. Our offense simply made too many mistakes but I agree, our defense usually does win the games and did not in this regard.

Crash
02-23-2011, 10:37 PM
Hey did you all see Peyton avoid that sack in the Super Bowl? It went for a pick 6 but hey, at least he got rid of it, right?

BURGH86STEEL
02-23-2011, 10:59 PM
I am of the opinion that the Steelers offense falls short of some others around the league because of the lack of consistency from the QB position

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Show us, point it out.
They can't. So they just keep posting lie after lie...mistruth after mistruth...in hopes noboby is smart enough to see their crap and prove them wrong. Typical.

They could save themselves from looking like jack-asses by looking up stuff but, then again, that would time away from their writing bulls hit.

You never witnessed the times Ben held the ball to long, under threw WR's, didn't see or ignored open WR's, struggled to get the ball out quickly, appeared to struggle with his reads, struggled in the red zone when the windows got smaller, throwing with anticipation of WR's breaking routes?



All QBs go through it. Just watch the QBs who you slobber on with same intensity as you watch Ben maybe you might change your opinion. If you expect QB to be on money 100% of the time then i would suggest you need to start watching Arena Football League. Pittsburgh Power.

Manning struggled few games last season. Brees struggled few games last season. Why don't you call them out.

Steelers have a vertical attack. Best in the league. They are not dink and dunk offense. Don't expect them to be and i definitely don't want them to be that offense.

I am a grown man. I don't slobber over anyone. Got it?

I am not going to change my opinion of Ben until he develops more consistency. I don't expect a QB to be money 100% of the time.

Manning and Brees do not play for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yep, Manning and Brees had their struggles. That being said, they play the QB position with more consistency then Ben. Their offenses are a direct reflection of the way they play the position.

I am not sure the Steelers have the best vertical attack in the league. Ben is not one of the better deep ball passers. One area that Ben can work to improve on is taking what the defense gives. If that means dinking and dunking to gain a few yards for field position, give a player a chance to make a play, or to give the team an opportunity for a FG, he should take it. Ben didn't always play smart football. As a result, he took a lot of unnecessary hits. There are times when it's better to live to play another play. It may help to extend Ben's career.

Crash
02-23-2011, 11:03 PM
Ben is not one of the better deep ball passers.

The facts on the field say he is.

Look it up.


I am not going to change my opinion of Ben until he develops more consistency

Once again, home/road splits:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)

Where's the inconsistency?

Crash
02-23-2011, 11:06 PM
That being said, they play the QB position with more consistency then Ben.

Yeah Brees and those 4 big playoff wins in 10 years!

Sign me up!

eniparadoxgma
02-23-2011, 11:23 PM
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7797/eatingpopcorn.gif (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/eatingpopcorn.gif/)

grotonsteel
02-23-2011, 11:40 PM
I am a grown man. I don't slobber over anyone. Got it?

I am not going to change my opinion of Ben until he develops more consistency. I don't expect a QB to be money 100% of the time.

Manning and Brees do not play for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yep, Manning and Brees had their struggles. That being said, they play the QB position with more consistency then Ben. Their offenses are a direct reflection of the way they play the position.

I am not sure the Steelers have the best vertical attack in the league. Ben is not one of the better deep ball passers. One area that Ben can work to improve on is taking what the defense gives. If that means dinking and dunking to gain a few yards for field position, give a player a chance to make a play, or to give the team an opportunity for a FG, he should take it. Ben didn't always play smart football. As a result, he took a lot of unnecessary hits. There are times when it's better to live to play another play. It may help to extend Ben's career.


Manning struggled in reg season.... 1st Rd playoff loss
Brees struggled in reg season---1st Rd playoff loss
Rivers struggled in reg season---No Playoffs in weak division

And these QBs are more consistent. What kind of logic is that?? Are you sure you are a grown man???

If you are not sure about Steelers offense watch the games or atleast try to click on yahoo box score that you normally do for other QBs.

Again your philosophy and Steelers philosophy on Offense is world apart and i am glad you are not Steelers OC.

Crash
02-23-2011, 11:43 PM
Brees' Super Bowl season is a fluke.

No playoffs

No playoffs

Super Bowl

One and done

Here's another fact boys. After 7 years each? "Inconsistent" Ben Roethlisberger threw more TD passes than Drew Brees did.

NJ-STEELER
02-24-2011, 12:39 AM
yeah

imagine ben 'playing smarter' and going to the turf untouched like brady and manning have done.

the blue collar fans in pittsburgh would love seeing that....LOL

Crash
02-24-2011, 12:44 AM
The Peyton Plop!

I believe the first time I saw it was against the Ravens in 2008.

hawaiiansteel
02-24-2011, 01:03 AM
Ben is a winner, if he doesn't make this tackle we lose the game and never make it to the Super Bowl...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/10362/The_Tackle.jpg

I'm certainly glad he's our QB, we may not always win but at least Ben always gives us a chance.
the only criticism I have of Ben is I hope he never gets his hair cut like this again... :wft

http://www.blogcdn.com/backporch.fanhouse.com/media/2010/04/ben-roethlisberger-steelers-statement-mullet-bp.jpg

Blockhead
02-24-2011, 11:49 AM
There really is no reason to debate with someone who can't see Ben's faults. They're clearly in denial and it's doubtful they come out of it.

As for holding the ball, anyone who says it's better to hold the ball than make a read and throw the ball is delusional and doesn't understand football.

There are many factors for QB's winning SB's or not. QB's don't win SB's alone but to suggest a few plays by Peyton Manning makes him a worse QB than Ben is ridiculous. Should we also say that minus a throw in SB XLIII, Ben is a complete bust of SB's? Minus that one throw, Ben would be 1/3 in SB's and played like hot garbage in the one he did win. No, of course not. That's why you can't deny the thousands of passes Manning has thrown and try to force a point by showing 2-3 sacks.

Crash
02-24-2011, 11:54 AM
Should we also say that minus a throw in SB XLIII, Ben is a complete bust of SB's?

Um, no, because Ben started XLIII on fire as well. The great defense couldn't get off the field after we went up 10-0 in that game.

Ben does have faults. But you clowns don't admit the faults of other QBs at all. When someone says Matt Ryan is better than Ben? Their opinion doesn't matter to me.

Bye.

Blockhead
02-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Should we also say that minus a throw in SB XLIII, Ben is a complete bust of SB's?

Um, no, because Ben started XLIII on fire as well. The great defense couldn't get off the field after we went up 10-0 in that game.

Ben does have faults. But you clowns don't admit the faults of other QBs at all. When someone says Matt Ryan is better than Ben? Their opinion doesn't matter to me.

Bye.
Reality is it wouldn't matter how he started if he lost.

Everyone knows the biggest reason we won the game was the 14 point swing James Harrison provided the team. Without that play, we don't win or even have a chance to win. Blaming the defense is as ridiculous as anything.

Crash
02-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Should we also say that minus a throw in SB XLIII, Ben is a complete bust of SB's?

Um, no, because Ben started XLIII on fire as well. The great defense couldn't get off the field after we went up 10-0 in that game.

Ben does have faults. But you clowns don't admit the faults of other QBs at all. When someone says Matt Ryan is better than Ben? Their opinion doesn't matter to me.

Bye.
Reality is it wouldn't matter how he started if he lost.

Everyone knows the biggest reason we won the game was the 14 point swing James Harrison provided the team. Without that play, we don't win or even have a chance to win. Blaming the defense is as ridiculous as anything.

The defense blew a 20-7 4th quarter lead. Those are facts. The defense also couldn't get off the field. Again, those are facts.

Deal in them, or STFU.

grotonsteel
02-24-2011, 11:59 AM
Should we also say that minus a throw in SB XLIII, Ben is a complete bust of SB's?


Ben does have faults. But you clowns don't admit the faults of other QBs at all. When someone says Matt Ryan is better than Ben? Their opinion doesn't matter to me.




:Agree

Again why does one game make Ben inconsistent whereas if we point out failures of Peyton and Brady in playoffs we hear but it is just one game and neglected..???

Blockhead
02-24-2011, 12:08 PM
The defense blew a 20-7 4th quarter lead. Those are facts. The defense also couldn't get off the field. Again, those are facts.

Deal in them, or STFU.
The defense held the Cardinals to 7 points throught three quarters then backed off, as we always do, to preserve a lead. That's fantastic defense. If the offense could do anything or score in the fourth quarter, the lead is never surrendered. It's really nothing new. If you followed the Steelers and watched the games, you would know we did and have done this strategy for a long long time. The only difference now is our offfense can't milk a clock like the offenses of years ago. We have fallen in love with the pass too much and too many empty sets. In SB XLIII, our offense in the fourth quarter netted -2 total yards, 2 punts and a safety on the first three drives. Is that the defenses fault? You have to watch the games to understand the flow of the games. Blaming the defense for XLIII is completely ridiculous. You should be thanking them.

Crash
02-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Yeah it was real fantastic watching Jr. run past the secondary. Thanks defense!

Our "defense" is actually the OFFENSE controlling the clock.

And even then, they give up too many give back scores when the Steelers score points.

Blockhead
02-24-2011, 12:17 PM
Yeah it was real fantastic watching Jr. run past the secondary. Thanks defense!

Our "defense" is actually the OFFENSE controlling the clock.

And even then, they give up too many give back scores when the Steelers score points.
You've made it pretty clear you have not followed the Steelers very long. If you had, you would know this is typical of our defense. We play lights out, then protect a lead by running the ball and controlling the clock. The only difference now is we have a moron for a OC who likes to keep passing and risking the lead or causing shorter drives and less consuming clock with incompletions.

Again, in SB XLIII, our offense in the fourth quarter netted -2 total yards, 2 punts and a safety on the first three drives.

How is that the defense's fault? I'd suggest you study up on the Steelers by actually watching the games, both past and present, and you'll see what I wrote above is exactly the facts.

Crash
02-24-2011, 12:27 PM
The only difference now is we have a moron for a OC who likes to keep passing and risking the lead or causing shorter drives and less consuming clock with incompletions.

The Steelers were #3 in TOP in 2009. 17 seconds LESS per game than the NFL leader.

The "short drives" excuse of 2009 doesn't wash either. The defense in fact was guilty of giving up LONG TD drives AFTER the Steelers would score points of their own. That's why they missed the playoffs. If anything Tomlin proved when he kicked that onsides kick against Green Bay that he had no confidence in his defense to make a stop, and if anything they would at least get the ball back when the defense gave up their TD by shortening the Packers drive.

Of course, I'm not saying anything that anyone who watches the games wouldn't know themselves.

Blockhead
02-24-2011, 12:32 PM
The only difference now is we have a moron for a OC who likes to keep passing and risking the lead or causing shorter drives and less consuming clock with incompletions.

The Steelers were #3 in TOP in 2009. 17 seconds LESS per game than the NFL leader.

The "short drives" excuse of 2009 doesn't wash either. The defense in fact was guilty of giving up LONG TD drives AFTER the Steelers would score points of their own. That's why they missed the playoffs. If anything Tomlin proved when he kicked that onsides kick against Green Bay that he had no confidence in his defense to make a stop, and if anything they would at least get the ball back when the defense gave up their TD by shortening the Packers drive.

Of course, I'm not saying anything that anyone who watches the games wouldn't know themselves.

You watch the games? I highly doubt that. You clearly study box scores. Everyone of your examples in this topic is picking apart stats to try and show your point yet ignoring those that do not.

If you had watched the Steelers over the years, you'd know what you're saying is completely wrong.

I see you want to ignore the truth on SB XLIII and the first three drives of the 4th quarter.

Judging by your replies in this topic alone, you are in complete denial of the truth about our offense.

Crash
02-24-2011, 12:43 PM
I see you want to ignore the truth on SB XLIII and the first three drives of the 4th quarter.

Yeah, they started slow in the 4th quarter. But what was the defense's excuse for giving up another TD after we scored a TD ourselves? 10-0 and our defense bends over. I guess they were tired after 5 plays right?

In the last five SB quarters for this defense, five TD passes given up.

Stellar.

The four games without pass happy Ben and Arians proves my point this season. They gave up a 4th quarter lead against the Falcons, they were one missed PI call on McFadden from giving up a HUGE 4th quarter lead against the Titans if they convert a 2 point try, and blew a 4th quarter lead and lost to the Ravens.

Ben was nowhere to be found, and the same 2009 problems existed didn't they? In fact, in the last 5 games that Ben hasn't played? The defense has blown three 4th quarter leads.

So much for passing too much.

Oh let me guess, it was all by design, right?

williar
02-24-2011, 01:01 PM
[quote]Ben is not one of the better deep ball passers.

The facts on the field say he is.
Look it up.


I am not going to change my opinion of Ben until he develops more consistency

Once again, home/road splits:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 00/splits/ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/)


Now, you have gone to far. Ben a good deep ball passer? Yeah! those deep ball he connected to Wallace for TD's in XLV were a thing of beauty. Oh! Wait!!

Where's the inconsistency?[/quote:1jn2p72o]

Crash
02-24-2011, 01:18 PM
Now, you have gone to far. Ben a good deep ball passer? Yeah! those deep ball he connected to Wallace for TD's in XLV were a thing of beauty. Oh! Wait!!

So again, one game? That's your evidence?

Wallace averages 20 yards a catch for his career, he and Ben have already connected for more 40+ yard TDs than any combo in franchise history, and somehow Ben can't throw a deep ball.

Hilarious.

papillon
02-24-2011, 01:25 PM
The defense blew a 20-7 4th quarter lead. Those are facts. The defense also couldn't get off the field. Again, those are facts.

Deal in them, or STFU.
The defense held the Cardinals to 7 points throught three quarters then backed off, as we always do, to preserve a lead. That's fantastic defense. If the offense could do anything or score in the fourth quarter, the lead is never surrendered. It's really nothing new. If you followed the Steelers and watched the games, you would know we did and have done this strategy for a long long time. The only difference now is our offfense can't milk a clock like the offenses of years ago. We have fallen in love with the pass too much and too many empty sets. In SB XLIII, our offense in the fourth quarter netted -2 total yards, 2 punts and a safety on the first three drives. Is that the defenses fault? You have to watch the games to understand the flow of the games. Blaming the defense for XLIII is completely ridiculous. You should be thanking them.

I wouldn't consider strangling an offense for three quarters and then backing off in the fourth and conceding points fantastic defense. No different than I wouldn't consider an offense that scores 20 - 24 points through 3 quarters and then can't put one more score on the board to ice the game in the 4th quarter fantastic offense.

Laying the blame solely at Ben's feet (or the offense) or solely at the hands of the defense is nonsense. Football more than any other sport requires 22 players plus special teams all to work as a team to be successful. There are occasions when one player or one side of the ball can dominate and appear to win a game single handedly, but even in those instances it probably isn't fact.

Without Ben the Steelers would be a middle of thew pack team. Without the defense playing as well as it does week in and week out the Steelers are a middle of the pack team. Why anyone needs to blame the offense or defense for a loss is beyond me.

You need all the parts to be successful, period.

Pappy

Eich
02-24-2011, 01:29 PM
I see you want to ignore the truth on SB XLIII and the first three drives of the 4th quarter.

Yeah, they started slow in the 4th quarter. But what was the defense's excuse for giving up another TD after we scored a TD ourselves? 10-0 and our defense bends over. I guess they were tired after 5 plays right?

In the last five SB quarters for this defense, five TD passes given up.

Stellar.

The four games without pass happy Ben and Arians proves my point this season. They gave up a 4th quarter lead against the Falcons, they were one missed PI call on McFadden from giving up a HUGE 4th quarter lead against the Titans if they convert a 2 point try, and blew a 4th quarter lead and lost to the Ravens.

Ben was nowhere to be found, and the same 2009 problems existed didn't they? In fact, in the last 5 games that Ben hasn't played? The defense has blown three 4th quarter leads.

So much for passing too much.

Oh let me guess, it was all by design, right?

GOOD LORD people. This could go on FOREVER.

Obviously, both our offense and our defense are well above average. Three Super Bowl appearances since 2005 and 2 rings !!

Also obvious is that both our offense and defense and yes guys like Ben, Troy and other players have weaknesses that SOMETIMES OTHER GOOD TEAMS FIND WAYS TO EXPLOIT.

I don't get why people feel the need to highlight only one side of a reason for a loss. Yeah - the offense could have scored more. Yes, the defense could have prevented more scores. Neither happened enough. We lost.

Eich
02-24-2011, 01:35 PM
I see you want to ignore the truth on SB XLIII and the first three drives of the 4th quarter.

Yeah, they started slow in the 4th quarter.

HIlarous. STARTED SLOW ? That's what you call NO production and giving up a safety: "Starting Slow" ? They didn't start slow, they started going BACKWARDS and never recovered.

Threads like these are funny. Crash defends Ben to the death, calling some of the most miserable 4th quarter offense ever witnessed "Starting Slow".

Then Ben bashers absolve the defense of giving up points and act like the best QB we've had since TB is a failure.

The truth is well between those schools of thought.

Blockhead
02-24-2011, 01:42 PM
I wouldn't consider strangling an offense for three quarters and then backing off in the fourth and conceding points fantastic defense. No different than I wouldn't consider an offense that scores 20 - 24 points through 3 quarters and then can't put one more score on the board to ice the game in the 4th quarter fantastic offense.

Laying the blame solely at Ben's feet (or the offense) or solely at the hands of the defense is nonsense. Football more than any other sport requires 22 players plus special teams all to work as a team to be successful. There are occasions when one player or one side of the ball can dominate and appear to win a game single handedly, but even in those instances it probably isn't fact.

Without Ben the Steelers would be a middle of thew pack team. Without the defense playing as well as it does week in and week out the Steelers are a middle of the pack team. Why anyone needs to blame the offense or defense for a loss is beyond me.

You need all the parts to be successful, period.

Pappy
Completely agree. Ben cetainly would win nothing if not for this team around him. The team wins nothing without him. I don't feel our backups could help guide us to a SB. I also agree, if our offense had any success in the first three drives of that SB, the game is a blowout. Our defense provided a 14 point swing and only allowed 7 points through 3 quarters so it's pretty asinine to blame them for much, if anything.

The offense doesn't have the ability to run anymore. We used to hand the ball off and destroy teams once we had a lead. Now, we keep passing and letting the offense back on the field late in games. It makes no sense. Whoever is calling the plays needs to change, especially in the 4th quarter of games with leads.

Crash
02-24-2011, 02:09 PM
The safety on Hartwig was a joke. He didn't grab him at all. The Cards DL basically bowled him over so it looked like he was held.

I'm just tired of hearing how the offense didn't do anything.

Because of the defense's inability to get off the field the Steelers offense only had the ball five times after three quarters, and they scored on three of the drives.

papillon
02-24-2011, 02:13 PM
I wouldn't consider strangling an offense for three quarters and then backing off in the fourth and conceding points fantastic defense. No different than I wouldn't consider an offense that scores 20 - 24 points through 3 quarters and then can't put one more score on the board to ice the game in the 4th quarter fantastic offense.

Laying the blame solely at Ben's feet (or the offense) or solely at the hands of the defense is nonsense. Football more than any other sport requires 22 players plus special teams all to work as a team to be successful. There are occasions when one player or one side of the ball can dominate and appear to win a game single handedly, but even in those instances it probably isn't fact.

Without Ben the Steelers would be a middle of thew pack team. Without the defense playing as well as it does week in and week out the Steelers are a middle of the pack team. Why anyone needs to blame the offense or defense for a loss is beyond me.

You need all the parts to be successful, period.

Pappy
Completely agree. Ben cetainly would win nothing if not for this team around him. The team wins nothing without him. I don't feel our backups could help guide us to a SB. I also agree, if our offense had any success in the first three drives of that SB, the game is a blowout. Our defense provided a 14 point swing and only allowed 7 points through 3 quarters so it's pretty asinine to blame them for much, if anything.

The offense doesn't have the ability to run anymore. We used to hand the ball off and destroy teams once we had a lead. Now, we keep passing and letting the offense back on the field late in games. It makes no sense. Whoever is calling the plays needs to change, especially in the 4th quarter of games with leads.

Actually, from what I saw at the end of the year and the playoffs the running game was picking up steam. Had Mendenhall not fumbled the d@mn ball the Steelers would have been able to continue running the ball in the Super Bowl. They were having success running the ball. Unfortunately, the fumble ended up putting them down by a couple scores and they had to abandon the run to a degree.

I'm looking forward to the running game really re-establishing itself next year and make the offense unpredictable and high octane.

Pappy

Crash
02-24-2011, 02:16 PM
I also agree, if our offense had any success in the first three drives of that SB, the game is a blowout.

Um, the Steelers scored 10 points on their first two drives of SB XLIII.

What's funny? Is the first drive of that game? They did exactly what you smashmouth clowns wanted after Ben hits Heath for a 21 yard gain to get in the red zone:

1st and 1 at ARI 1 G.Russell left tackle to ARZ 5 for -4 yards (A.Smith, M.Beisel).

2nd and 5 at ARI 5 W.Parker right tackle to ARZ 1 for 4 yards (R.Brown, G.Hayes).

Two RZ 1st and 2nd down carries for zero yards.

Once again, the insistence to play Stiller 1975 football hurts the offense.

NJ-STEELER
02-24-2011, 02:17 PM
I also agree, if our offense had any success in the first three drives of that SB, the game is a blowout.

Um, the Steelers scored 10 points on their first two drives of SB XLIII.

What's funny? Is the first drive of that game? They did exactly what you smashmouth clowns wanted after Ben hits Heath for a 21 yard gain to get in the red zone:

1st and 1 at ARI 1 G.Russell left tackle to ARZ 5 for -4 yards (A.Smith, M.Beisel).

2nd and 5 at ARI 5 W.Parker right tackle to ARZ 1 for 4 yards (R.Brown, G.Hayes).

Two RZ 1st and 2nd down carries for zero yards.

Once again, the insistence to play Stiller 1975 football hurts the offense.

"they scored too early and too fast"


LOL

Crash
02-24-2011, 02:21 PM
The offense doesn't have the ability to run anymore. We used to hand the ball off and destroy teams once we had a lead. Now, we keep passing and letting the offense back on the field late in games. It makes no sense. Whoever is calling the plays needs to change, especially in the 4th quarter of games with leads.

You mean like they did against the Ravens in game #4 without evil pass happy Ben this year?

You got what you wanted, three straight runs up 4 points. Stiller smashmouth football. Yoi! Hmm Ha. Okle dokle!

Then you saw the Ravens win the game.

Just like earlier in the same game, Batch (and not pass happy evil Ben) and his offense gave the Steelers a 7-0 lead.

The defense comes back on the field, and gives it right back.

I guess the defense was tired.

The same problems as 2009.

Ben was sitting in his parents ranch house.

What's the excuse now?

Crash
02-24-2011, 02:34 PM
I'm looking forward to the running game really re-establishing itself next year and make the offense unpredictable and high octane.

That will not change until Spaeth and Johnson are off the field.

You want high octane? You better hope for three wides as a base offense.