"It's scary how good Ben can be"

[Blockhead]

I also agree, if our offense had any success in the first three drives of that SB, the game is a blowout.

Um, the Steelers scored 10 points on their first two drives of SB XLIII.
1st three drives of the 4th quarter.

[Blockhead]

Actually, from what I saw at the end of the year and the playoffs the running game was picking up steam. Had Mendenhall not fumbled the d@mn ball the Steelers would have been able to continue running the ball in the Super Bowl. They were having success running the ball. Unfortunately, the fumble ended up putting them down by a couple scores and they had to abandon the run to a degree.

I'm looking forward to the running game really re-establishing itself next year and make the offense unpredictable and high octane.

Pappy
Absolutely, and if we stick to it, we likely win. Instead, after the Mendenhall fumble, we went pass happy. We shy away from the run after one mistake but not when the passing game has multiple giveaways. The OC is pass happy and hasn't a clue how to run a proper power set.

[hawaiiansteel]

The safety on Hartwig was a joke.


or one could also say that Hartwig was a joke...thank God the Steelers FO didn't listen to the posters on this board who thought Pouncey was a reach.

[Crash]

Instead, after the Mendenhall fumble, we went pass happy.

After the Mendenhall fumble we went down the field and scored a touchdown in six plays.

And he still bitches.

And what happened after Mendy scored? Big surprise, the defense came on the field, and gave three points and 5:27 off the clock, right back to the Packers.

[Crash]

The safety on Hartwig was a joke.


or one could also say that Hartwig was a joke...thank God the Steelers FO didn't listen to the posters on this board who thought Pouncey was a reach.

I honestly don't think Hartwig is a problem. I think the guard play is even worse.

Hartwig wasn't here, and Pouncey made the Pro Bowl.

Kemo and the guards still stink.

[hawaiiansteel]

The safety on Hartwig was a joke.


or one could also say that Hartwig was a joke...thank God the Steelers FO didn't listen to the posters on this board who thought Pouncey was a reach.

I honestly don't think Hartwig is a problem. I think the guard play is even worse.

Hartwig wasn't here, and Pouncey made the Pro Bowl.

Kemo and the guards still stink.


I agree that at the end of the season Kemo was the weak link in our OL...

[Crash]

Kemo makes one block a game and it's a 30 minute highlight.

But he's awful in pass protection. He's just not quick enough.

Coax Faneca into finishing his last season here, and then draft Pouncey's brother.

Instant upgrade.

[The Sodfather]

Kemo makes one block a game and it's a 30 minute highlight.



Kemo gets "hyped" (not sure that's the right word) because he pulls alot and it's easier for the fans to see when he blocks someone. He knocks a couple of people around when he's on the move and people act like he's John Hannah.

Between being bad in pass pro and blowing assignments (he's dumb as a brick) he does more bad than good, IMO.

[NJ-STEELER]

Kemo makes one block a game and it's a 30 minute highlight.



Kemo gets "hyped" (not sure that's the right word) because he pulls alot and it's easier for the fans to see when he blocks someone. He knocks a couple of people around when he's on the move and people act like he's John Hannah.

Between being bad in pass pro and blowing assignments (he's dumb as a brick) he does more bad than good, IMO.


dont forget dumb penalties.


although, they're all probably ben's fault according to some

[Blockhead]

Instead, after the Mendenhall fumble, we went pass happy.

After the Mendenhall fumble we went down the field and scored a touchdown in six plays.

And he still bitches.

And what happened after Mendy scored? Big surprise, the defense came on the field, and gave three points and 5:27 off the clock, right back to the Packers.
Thinking our defense isn't going to surrender points to offenses and QB's like Green Bay is an unrealistic expectation. Going into the game, we knew our offense would have to put up points to win and they did. If they don't give away points, we win.

[Crash]

Thinking our defense isn't going to surrender points to offenses and QB's like Green Bay is an unrealistic expectation.

There it is. The ol' defend the defense excuse.

In 2009 they gave up a give back TD up seven points to Matt Cassell and the sorry KC Chiefs, and 21 4th quarter points (14 of them after two Steelers TDs) to the Raiders who were among the worst offense's in NFL HISTORY. So it really doesn't matter who's QB-ing after we score points does it? The defense will give them right back.

You just complained about the Steelers going "pass happy" when all they did down 28-17 was score a TD.

So basically NOTHING this team does, will satisfy you.

Clown.

[grotonsteel]

[quote=Crash]Kemo makes one block a game and it's a 30 minute highlight.



Kemo gets "hyped" (not sure that's the right word) because he pulls alot and it's easier for the fans to see when he blocks someone. He knocks a couple of people around when he's on the move and people act like he's John Hannah.

Between being bad in pass pro and blowing assignments (he's dumb as a brick) he does more bad than good, IMO.


dont forget dumb penalties.


although, they're all probably ben's fault according to some[/quote:owafjvs6]


Kemo was the worst starting O-Lineman on Steelers team and he earns 4 million dollars/yr

I hope they draft Mike and cut Kemo.

[hawaiiansteel]

Kemo was the worst starting O-Lineman on Steelers team and he earns 4 million dollars/yr

I hope they draft Mike and cut Kemo.


I read somewhere that Kemo becomes very easy to cut cap-wise AFTER this season so he will probably be around at least one more season.

[williar]

Now, you have gone to far. Ben a good deep ball passer? Yeah! those deep ball he connected to Wallace for TD's in XLV were a thing of beauty. Oh! Wait!!

So again, one game? That's your evidence?

Wallace averages 20 yards a catch for his career, he and Ben have already connected for more 40+ yard TDs than any combo in franchise history, and somehow Ben can't throw a deep ball.

Hilarious.

I am not mesmerized by stats. I trust what I see on the field. Ben sucks as a deep ball passer. You know that!

[papillon]

Actually, from what I saw at the end of the year and the playoffs the running game was picking up steam. Had Mendenhall not fumbled the d@mn ball the Steelers would have been able to continue running the ball in the Super Bowl. They were having success running the ball. Unfortunately, the fumble ended up putting them down by a couple scores and they had to abandon the run to a degree.

I'm looking forward to the running game really re-establishing itself next year and make the offense unpredictable and high octane.

Pappy
Absolutely, and if we stick to it, we likely win. Instead, after the Mendenhall fumble, we went pass happy. We shy away from the run after one mistake but not when the passing game has multiple giveaways. The OC is pass happy and hasn't a clue how to run a proper power set.

The OC may or may not be NFL material the current verdict is that he is good enough. After the fumble to start the 4th quarter and the ensuing drive by the Packers the clock was the Steeler's enemy and not their ally being down by two scores.

They had to get away from the running game. And, yet, in the end the Steelers had the ball, down 6 points, 2 minutes on the clock and Ben with the ball. I liked our chances, unfortunately, the offense came up short this time. More often than not Ben and the offense are able to put together a clutch drive, it didn't happen this time, $h1t happens.

Pappy

[hawaiiansteel]

how good could Ben be if only he wouldn't always hang onto the ball so long... :roll: :stirpot


Who To Blame for All The Steelers Sacks?

by John Stephens on Feb 26, 2011


Another 40+ sack season, puts the Steelers at 5 straight seasons of surpassing that mark. Who should we blame for all these sacks? Do we blame the Offensive Line for not being able to block long enough for the QB to get the ball out? Or do we blame Ben Roethlisberger holding on to the ball past 3 seconds and making the OL's job nearly impossible? It is a difficult question to answer, because no one has really given us any in depth break down of league wide sack data. Fortunately for us, NFL Fanhouse just filled that void, at least partially.

My assumption was that 3.5 seconds was the time you should expect an offensive lineman to hold his block. That time should give the QB enough time to make at least 3-4 reads. When it is up, the QB's internal alarm should go off and he should flee or throw the ball away. If he gets sacked holding on to the ball the sack becomes his own fault. Fanhouse decided to go with 3 seconds, which probably is based off stronger analysis than my perceived assumption. They found that the mean sack time was 2.7 seconds, which apparently was exactly the same in 2009. Also, they note that dependent variables like the amount of rushers were ignored, believing those factors average out.

Anyway, they went and reviewed every single sack in the 2010 season armed with a stop watch. They tallied up the sacks in two columns: "Over 3 seconds" and "3 Seconds or Less". Joe Flacco tops the list of "slow sacks" with 25, followed by Ben (20), Cutler (19), Vick (19), and (Campbell 16). A great analysis, however something important is not acknowledged. Not every QB played 16 games and not every QB drops back as frequently. Our very own QB missed the first quarter of the year, which probably puts his "slow sacks" per game at 1.67 compared to Flacco's 1.56.

For my break down, I am going to average out the sack totals according to how many times the QBs dropped back (pass attempts + times sacked). That way, we can more accurately compare the numbers. The table is initially organized by "slow sacks" per drop back, but you can click on the column headers to organize the table differently. I excluded all QBs who were sacked less than 10 times, except for all of the Steelers QBs.

Quarterback Team Dropbacks Total Sack % More Than 3 Sec Per DP Less Than 3 Sec Per DP

Byron Leftwich Steelers 9 2 22.22 1 11.11 1 11.11
Dennis Dixon Steelers 37 5 13.51 3 8.11 2 5.41
Ben Roethlisberger Steelers 421 32 7.6 20 4.75 12 2.85
Joe Flacco Ravens 529 40 7.56 25 4.73 15 2.84
Michael Vick Eagles 404 32 7.92 19 4.7 13 3.22
Colt McCoy Browns 245 23 9.39 11 4.49 12 4.9
Jason Campbell Raiders 363 34 9.37 16 4.41 18 4.96
Troy Smith 49ers 163 18 11.04 7 4.29 11 6.75
Vince Young Titans 169 13 7.69 7 4.14 6 3.55
Jay Cutler Bears 484 52 10.74 19 3.93 33 6.82
Charlie Batch Steelers 53 4 7.55 2 3.77 2 3.77
Kevin Kolb Eagles 205 16 7.8 7 3.41 9 4.39
Max Hall Cardinals 91 13 14.29 3 3.3 10 10.99
Matt Cassell Chiefs 476 26 5.46 14 2.94 12 2.52
Brett Favre Vikings 380 22 5.79 11 2.89 11 2.89
Kyle Orton Broncos 532 34 6.39 15 2.82 19 3.57
Tyler Thigpen Dolphins 72 10 13.89 2 2.78 8 11.11
Trent Edwards Jaguars 112 11 9.82 3 2.68 8 7.14
Mark Sanchez Jets 534 27 5.06 14 2.62 13 2.43
Derek Anderson Cardinals 353 26 7.37 8 2.27 18 5.1
Phillip Rivers Chargers 579 38 6.56 13 2.25 25 4.32
Alex Smith 49ers 367 25 6.81 8 2.18 17 4.63
Josh Freeman Buccaneers 493 19 3.85 10 2.03 9 1.83
David Garrard Jaguars 398 32 8.04 8 2.01 24 6.03
Aaron Rodgers Packers 506 31 6.13 10 1.98 21 4.15
Sam Bradford Rams 625 35 5.6 12 1.92 23 3.68
Matt Hasselback Seahawks 473 29 6.13 9 1.9 20 4.23
Donovan McNabb Redskins 509 37 7.27 9 1.77 28 5.5
Tom Brady Patriots 517 25 4.84 8 1.55 17 3.29
Ryan Fitzpatrick Bills 464 23 4.96 7 1.51 16 3.45
Jimmy Claussen Panthers 333 34 10.21 5 1.5 29 8.71
Matt Schaub Texans 606 32 5.28 9 1.49 23 3.8
Jon Kitna Cowboys 338 20 5.92 5 1.48 15 4.44
Matt Moore Panthers 155 12 7.74 2 1.29 10 6.45
Bruce Gradkowski Raiders 167 10 5.99 2 1.2 8 4.79
Matt Ryan Falcons 594 23 3.87 7 1.18 16 2.69
Shaun Hill Lions 433 17 3.93 5 1.15 12 2.77
Chad Henne Dolphins 518 28 5.41 5 0.97 23 4.44
Drew Brees Saints 684 26 3.8 5 0.73 21 3.07
Carson Palmer Bengals 612 26 4.25 4 0.65 22 3.59
Kerry Collins Titans 291 13 4.47 1 0.34 12 4.12
Eli Manning Giants 555 16 2.88 1 0.18 15 2.7
Peyton Manning Colts 694 15 2.16 1 0.14 14 2.02


First, it should be noted that Dixon and Lefty's numbers are skewed because of a small sample size. However, I wanted to show them since they are our QBs. Moving on, these numbers are pretty telling. Ben has the highest "slow sack" per drop back percentage in the entire league, whereas his "fast sack" number is near the bottom of the league. That means, not only are the majority of Ben's sacks coming from holding on to the ball too long, but it is happening considerably more than average (4.75% compared to league average of approximately 2.69%).

Oddly enough, Joe Flacco's percentages are almost mirror images of Ben's. Very high "slow sack" % and a really low "fast sack" %. Despite having plenty of receiving talent, Flacco seems to be holding on to the ball longer than he should. Another side note, check out how low the "slow sack" numbers are on the Manning brothers. That is pretty incredible, especially for Eli who is not known for having the same quick release as Peyton.

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks)

[Crash]

And how many of those sacks didn't the WR read the hot route?

Because Ben sees this, and won't just chuck it away.

And it happens a lot. Especially with Ward.

Anyone who thinks just throwing the ball away is better than Ben trying to make a play I suggest watching Carson Palmer's playoff game against the Jets.

If you'd rather have Ben play like THAT? You are insane.

Ironic isn't it? The three headed version of LeftBatchDixon was easier to sack than Ben was.

I guess Ben was behind center then too.

[Steelerphile]

I've been making this point for a few years. Posters generally have a tendency to rave about the Patriots O-line like it is the greatest because Brady gets sacked so little. I always thought it was pretty clear that he makes his O-line look better because he gets rid of the ball much faster than Roethlisberger.

Finally someone has done a nice statistical analysis that well illustrates that point. . Big Ben is always going to be sacked a lot and the o-line cannot be held responsbile for most of them. The Steelers could draft O-line in the first three rounds every year and he would still take a lot of sacks.

[papillon]

Instead, after the Mendenhall fumble, we went pass happy.

After the Mendenhall fumble we went down the field and scored a touchdown in six plays.

And he still bitches.

And what happened after Mendy scored? Big surprise, the defense came on the field, and gave three points and 5:27 off the clock, right back to the Packers.
Thinking our defense isn't going to surrender points to offenses and QB's like Green Bay is an unrealistic expectation. Going into the game, we knew our offense would have to put up points to win and they did. If they don't give away points, we win.

No, we realize that good offenses are going to score points on the defense. But, in that situation the Steelers needed a stop, not a 5:27 drive ending in points that forced the Steelers to need a TD to win. It didn't happen, the offense couldn't make a play and the game ended.

It was one of the rare times that one unit couldn't pull out the game for the other, it happens.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

And how many of those sacks didn't the WR read the hot route?

Because Ben sees this, and won't just chuck it away.

And it happens a lot. Especially with Ward.

Anyone who thinks just throwing the ball away is better than Ben trying to make a play I suggest watching Carson Palmer's playoff game against the Jets.

If you'd rather have Ben play like THAT? You are insane.

Ironic isn't it? The three headed version of LeftBatchDixon was easier to sack than Ben was.

I guess Ben was behind center then too.

wow... talk about p'noid? Now Ben will become Palmer if he throws a few passes away?

[Crash]

wow... talk about p'noid? Now Ben will become Palmer if he throws a few passes away?

No, I'm saying I would rather have my QB try and play football instead of being a scared rabbit like Palmer was against the Jets.

Look at it like this, AFC title game, 3rd down and Super Bowl to go.

Ben used his mobility and waited for Brown to get open, they converted. Now what do you think happens on the same play if that were Palmer? He would chucked it to the sidelines at the first sign of trouble like he always does.

But hey, he didn't get sacked right?

Until we realize that 1975 football does not work anymore, and the 2-3 TE sets are whats killing this offense and it needs to be scrapped? This is who we are. Only the staff can change it.

What's also funny is Brady's offense throws a lot of WR screens and quick passes. We threw a lot of those types of passes in SB XLV (especially to Wallace) to avoid their pass rush and people were still bitching.

Arians and Ben, will never win with some people.

[feltdizz]

wow... talk about p'noid? Now Ben will become Palmer if he throws a few passes away?

No, I'm saying I would rather have my QB try and play football instead of being a scared rabbit like Palmer was against the Jets.

Look at it like this, AFC title game, 3rd down and Super Bowl to go.

Ben used his mobility and waited for Brown to get open, they converted. Now what do you think happens on the same play if that were Palmer? He would chucked it to the sidelines at the first sign of trouble like he always does.

But hey, he didn't get sacked right?

Until we realize that 1975 football does not work anymore, and the 2-3 TE sets are whats killing this offense and it needs to be scrapped? This is who we are. Only the staff can change it.

What's also funny is Brady's offense throws a lot of WR screens and quick passes. We threw a lot of those types of passes in SB XLV (especially to Wallace) to avoid their pass rush and people were still bitching.

Arians and Ben, will never win with some people.

Ben isn't Palmer... it makes zero sense to put the 2 in the same scenario.

We aren't talking about the 2 or 3 key plays that Ben converted... everyone uses the 5 amazing plays from the season as proof Ben should never throw the ball away.

When Ben does throw the ball away do you call him a sissy or a Palmer wannabe?

Some fans want Ben to play the way he does while taking less hits to extend his career. When we are playing Cleveland after clinching a playoff spot Ben shouldn't get carted off the field on a stretcher. While some say "Ben is who he is.." we have seen Ben's game evolve over the years... however you seem to talk about Ben like he hasn't improved at all and he had all the pieces in place from day 1.

No one complained about Ben taking sacks in SBXLV or the pass plays we used.

Seems to me like you are taking any critique of Ben's game to heart.

Ben throwing the ball away a few times doesn't make him Carson Palmer...
Ben running for a first down doesn't make him Michael Vick...

[Crash]

The entire "Ben gets sacked because he holds the ball too long" is a farce. MOST of the time he's sacked or hit? The OL is beaten before Ben is even done with his drop back.

MOST of the big hits Ben has taken are in the pocket, in fact when he's running around he's rarely hit.

The only way to "extend" Ben's career and not have him take as many hits as he does it to eliminate the problem: Predictability based on formations.

When Spaeth and Johnson are gone, and we finally go three wide with Miller as a base offense and Ben is named All Pro with our top 5 offense? Don't say I didn't warn you, because it will happen.

[grotonsteel]

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks)

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

[Crash]

I like the WR screens, I like the slants, I like when we do that and I'm sure Ben does too. MOST of the time when we go deep is on first down from the opponents 45 or in. And if we get a first down from the opponent 45 and come back from commercial? We throw to the endzone.

The problem we have is first down with Speath and or Johnson? It's a run play.

2nd and 10? Out goes the TEs and in come the wides, pass play.

Now if I know this? The opponent does too. With three wide as a base you have no friggin' clue whats coming.

That, and Field Turf, is what we need. Now.

[Blockhead]

The entire "Ben gets sacked because he holds the ball too long" is a farce. MOST of the time he's sacked or hit? The OL is beaten before Ben is even done with his drop back.

MOST of the big hits Ben has taken are in the pocket, in fact when he's running around he's rarely hit.

The only way to "extend" Ben's career and not have him take as many hits as he does it to eliminate the problem: Predictability based on formations.

When Spaeth and Johnson are gone, and we finally go three wide with Miller as a base offense and Ben is named All Pro with our top 5 offense? Don't say I didn't warn you, because it will happen.
It's not a farce. It has been proven. Ben has the 2nd most sacks after holding the ball over 3 seconds in the league, next to Flacco.

Many times when he is hit he had time to get rid of the ball and either held it or waited or pumpfaked meaninglessly.

If he could process and read defenses quicker, he'd be such a better QB.

[Crash]

The entire "Ben gets sacked because he holds the ball too long" is a farce. MOST of the time he's sacked or hit? The OL is beaten before Ben is even done with his drop back.

MOST of the big hits Ben has taken are in the pocket, in fact when he's running around he's rarely hit.

The only way to "extend" Ben's career and not have him take as many hits as he does it to eliminate the problem: Predictability based on formations.

When Spaeth and Johnson are gone, and we finally go three wide with Miller as a base offense and Ben is named All Pro with our top 5 offense? Don't say I didn't warn you, because it will happen.
It's not a farce. It has been proven. Ben has the 2nd most sacks after holding the ball over 3 seconds in the league, next to Flacco.

Many times when he is hit he had time to get rid of the ball and either held it or waited or pumpfaked meaninglessly.

If he could process and read defenses quicker, he'd be such a better QB.

Hi 43. Enjoy your brief stay.

[feltdizz]

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks)

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

It's not stupid football it's football the way it's supposed to be played.

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them? What's wrong with dink and dunk and the vertical?

This offense will be scary good if we incorporate more passes to Mend in the flat and let the RB's and WR's run for 1st downs instead of waiting for them to get past the marker and then throwing the ball.

Our O isn't half bad but part of the reason we get so frustrated with the O every year is because we keep trying to go vertical when the short stuff is available. We shortened the drops and went to quicker passes and had more success later in the year.

[Blockhead]

Hi 43. Enjoy your brief stay.

What's that GuySmiley7?

[NJ-STEELER]

10 of those sacks came in the first 3 games (leaving tampa out cause we built a big lead and didnt have to pass much)

in case anyone forgot, Ben didnt play in those games

[Crash]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

[feltdizz]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass unless it's a 7 point game and there is 4 seconds left on the clock and it's the SB and a meteor is about to hit earth and we know this will be the last pass we will ever see. :roll:

why does every suggestion of Ben throwing a pass away or throwing short of the 1st down lead to him being some scrub QB?

Ben has thrown the ball away before and his number didn't change.. he didn't become black and he definitely didn't become a Bengal.

[feltdizz]

10 of those sacks came in the first 3 games (leaving tampa out cause we built a big lead and didnt have to pass much)

in case anyone forgot, Ben didnt play in those games


3 games? The ole FWP stat calculator? :D

[grotonsteel]

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks)

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

It's not stupid football it's football the way it's supposed to be played.

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them? What's wrong with dink and dunk and the vertical?

This offense will be scary good if we incorporate more passes to Mend in the flat and let the RB's and WR's run for 1st downs instead of waiting for them to get past the marker and then throwing the ball.

Our O isn't half bad but part of the reason we get so frustrated with the O every year is because we keep trying to go vertical when the short stuff is available. We shortened the drops and went to quicker passes and had more success later in the year.


The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.

[grotonsteel]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass

How many times Ben has taken a sack in red zone??? Do you have any statistics on that??? I can't imagine it will be more than 2-3 times.Again i maybe wrong on that but i don't recollect more than 2-3 times.

[NJ-STEELER]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass unless it's a 7 point game and there is 4 seconds left on the clock and it's the SB and a meteor is about to hit earth and we know this will be the last pass we will ever see. :roll:

why does every suggestion of Ben throwing a pass away or throwing short of the 1st down lead to him being some scrub QB?

Ben has thrown the ball away before and his number didn't change.. he didn't become black and he definitely didn't become a Bengal.

it shows that the problem isnt holding the ball longer. other QB's in there and the amount of sacks doesnt change

[Crash]

How many times Ben has taken a sack in red zone???

In 2010? I would bet it didn't happen three times all year in the 12 games he played. I do remember a lot more RZ sacks in 2009.

Anyone want to look that up? Feel free to prove me wrong.

[feltdizz]

The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.

if we can't dink and dunk when the D is giving us the underneath stuff then we can't complain when the offense stalls for 10 quarters at a time.

Everyone keeps saying it has to be one or the other... why would anyone throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20? That's like suggesting a FG on 3rd and short.

On 3rd and 8... if Mend is open in the flat at 4 yard and has room to run wouldn't it be a good idea to throw the ball to him?

I never suggested our RB be the No 1 WR... where did you read that? How did a suggestion about throwing to the RB more in the flat turn into Mendenhall being our 1WR?

[feltdizz]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass unless it's a 7 point game and there is 4 seconds left on the clock and it's the SB and a meteor is about to hit earth and we know this will be the last pass we will ever see. :roll:

why does every suggestion of Ben throwing a pass away or throwing short of the 1st down lead to him being some scrub QB?

Ben has thrown the ball away before and his number didn't change.. he didn't become black and he definitely didn't become a Bengal.

it shows that the problem isnt holding the ball longer. other QB's in there and the amount of sacks doesnt change

what other QB's? Oh Dixon, Batch and Lefty? Those are some great QB's at reading defenses and getting rid of the ball quickly? *sarcasm intended*

Lefty takes forever to throw and is a statue...

Dixon still isn't comfortable and doesn't see open WR's downfield...

Batch is old and held the ball for over 4 seconds on at least 3 sacks.

[Oviedo]

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks)

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

It's not stupid football it's football the way it's supposed to be played.

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them? What's wrong with dink and dunk and the vertical?

This offense will be scary good if we incorporate more passes to Mend in the flat and let the RB's and WR's run for 1st downs instead of waiting for them to get past the marker and then throwing the ball.

Our O isn't half bad but part of the reason we get so frustrated with the O every year is because we keep trying to go vertical when the short stuff is available. We shortened the drops and went to quicker passes and had more success later in the year.

Correct. You take what the defense gives you instead of trying to force something that isn't there. You can wear down a defense with short completions and WRs who can run after the catch. We started getting guys like that with Sanders and Brown.

Short passes also keep the QB from getting sacked because the ball is gone. There is nothing wrong with using short passes and the run to set up a long gain. Long passes are usually low percentage whereas short passes are high percentage. I'll take the latter

[feltdizz]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass

How many times Ben has taken a sack in red zone??? Do you have any statistics on that??? I can't imagine it will be more than 2-3 times.Again i maybe wrong on that but i don't recollect more than 2-3 times.

not sure.. but I didn't say RZ I said FG range...

[feltdizz]

Correct. You take what the defense gives you instead of trying to force something that isn't there. You can wear down a defense with short completions and WRs who can run after the catch. We started getting guys like that with Sanders and Brown.

Short passes also keep the QB from getting sacked because the ball is gone. There is nothing wrong with using short passes and the run to set up a long gain. Long passes are usually low percentage whereas short passes are high percentage. I'll take the latter

we incorporated more short passes after Ben had the broken nose and club foot.

imagine how efficient and how much healthier Ben would be if we did it all the time.

...and this doesn't mean we have to trade in the vertical to do it.

[grotonsteel]

The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.

if we can't dink and dunk when the D is giving us the underneath stuff then we can't complain when the offense stalls for 10 quarters at a time.

Everyone keeps saying it has to be one or the other... why would anyone throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20? That's like suggesting a FG on 3rd and short.

On 3rd and 8... if Mend is open in the flat at 4 yard and has room to run wouldn't it be a good idea to throw the ball to him?

I never suggested our RB be the No 1 WR... where did you read that? How did a suggestion about throwing to the RB more in the flat turn into Mendenhall being our 1WR?


Again our Offense does not stall. Can you tell me a game where offense had trouble moving the ball??? Offense has RED ZONE problem. Moving the ball or time of possession is not a problem for offense.

[grotonsteel]

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them?

On 3rd and 10? The minute Ben does that on a consistent basis? It's time to replace him. Kordell used to do that all the time and then come off the field smiling like he just threw a 50 yard bomb.

On 3rd and 10 and in FG range... yes, take the 4 yard pass

How many times Ben has taken a sack in red zone??? Do you have any statistics on that??? I can't imagine it will be more than 2-3 times.Again i maybe wrong on that but i don't recollect more than 2-3 times.

not sure.. but I didn't say RZ I said FG range...


What is FG range according to you? Steelers could not kick 40 yards FG consistently until they canned Jeff Reed.

Again i would like to see the number of sacks Ben has taken on 3rd down in FG range in 2010.

[grotonsteel]

Back on topic, the verdict seems pretty clear from this analysis. The high sack count is resulting from Ben holding on to the ball too long. Maybe, just maybe, our offensive line is not as bad in pass protection as we perceived. The problem is that I do not believe there is a cure for this problem. Ben's game is designed around him extending the play and he is not going to change that. Sometimes it results in a sack, but sometimes it results in a 40+ yard bomb. We will all have to continue to keep our heart medicine nearby while watching the Steelers games.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... hese-sacks (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/2/26/2012517/who-should-the-pittsburgh-steelers-blame-for-all-these-sacks)

I think we need O-line upgrade based on how Steelers play. Steelers offense is vertical and with mobile QB we need athletic linemen. Pouncey is a start. Steelers don't believe in dink-dunk passes. Steelers run the ball more than any other team and if Ben starts throwing 4 yards passes on top of 25 run attempts/game Steelers offense will be a complete mess.

I don't want that dink-and-dunk or throw the ball away offense. Its stupid offense.

It's not stupid football it's football the way it's supposed to be played.

If the D is giving you 4 yard passes why not take them? What's wrong with dink and dunk and the vertical?

This offense will be scary good if we incorporate more passes to Mend in the flat and let the RB's and WR's run for 1st downs instead of waiting for them to get past the marker and then throwing the ball.

Our O isn't half bad but part of the reason we get so frustrated with the O every year is because we keep trying to go vertical when the short stuff is available. We shortened the drops and went to quicker passes and had more success later in the year.

Correct. You take what the defense gives you instead of trying to force something that isn't there. You can wear down a defense with short completions and WRs who can run after the catch. We started getting guys like that with Sanders and Brown.

Short passes also keep the QB from getting sacked because the ball is gone. There is nothing wrong with using short passes and the run to set up a long gain. Long passes are usually low percentage whereas short passes are high percentage. I'll take the latter


Short passes will work if you are planning to throw 40-50 times a game. Steelers are not going to do that. Steelers are going to run the ball no matter unless they are down by 20 points. When your QB is going to throw on average 20-30 passes short passes does not make sense.



Its not like Ben does not throw to RBs or TE you just don't want them to be your primary weapons. Steelers don't need to copy their offense similar to Cheatroits offense. Do we even have personnel to throw short passes??? Hines Ward is slow. Mike Wallace can't fight for the ball. Sanders and Brown are rookie. So many times they ran the wrong routes. Short passes are way too risky. Missed slant is a pick 6.

[feltdizz]

What is FG range according to you? Steelers could not kick 40 yards FG consistently until they canned Jeff Reed.

Again i would like to see the number of sacks Ben has taken on 3rd down in FG range in 2010.

I'm talking NFL FG range.. anything under 48 yards is the norm I think for FG kickers in the NFL.

Jeff Reed couldn't hit a 20 yarder last year so using his distance doesn't work :wink:

[grotonsteel]

Correct. You take what the defense gives you instead of trying to force something that isn't there. You can wear down a defense with short completions and WRs who can run after the catch. We started getting guys like that with Sanders and Brown.

Short passes also keep the QB from getting sacked because the ball is gone. There is nothing wrong with using short passes and the run to set up a long gain. Long passes are usually low percentage whereas short passes are high percentage. I'll take the latter

we incorporated more short passes after Ben had the broken nose and club foot.

imagine how efficient and how much healthier Ben would be if we did it all the time.

...and this doesn't mean we have to trade in the vertical to do it.


You do it if you have presonnel to do it and the minset.

Steelers mindset is to pound the rock. When you are throwing for 50 times a game it makes sense not when you are gpoing to throw for 20 times a game.

Heath Miller caught 78 passes in 2009 its not like Ben does not throw to TE/RB. You just don't want them to be your primary weapon. Again QB with great YPA has more chances of winning.

[feltdizz]

The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.

if we can't dink and dunk when the D is giving us the underneath stuff then we can't complain when the offense stalls for 10 quarters at a time.

Everyone keeps saying it has to be one or the other... why would anyone throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20? That's like suggesting a FG on 3rd and short.

On 3rd and 8... if Mend is open in the flat at 4 yard and has room to run wouldn't it be a good idea to throw the ball to him?

I never suggested our RB be the No 1 WR... where did you read that? How did a suggestion about throwing to the RB more in the flat turn into Mendenhall being our 1WR?


Again our Offense does not stall. Can you tell me a game where offense had trouble moving the ball??? Offense has RED ZONE problem. Moving the ball or time of possession is not a problem for offense.


any offense that isn't finishing drives is stalling in my book.

When we went 10 quarters without a TD.. that is stalling.

[grotonsteel]

The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.


I never suggested our RB be the No 1 WR... where did you read that? How did a suggestion about throwing to the RB more in the flat turn into Mendenhall being our 1WR?


How many times Ben throw in game?? Instead of throwing a 4yard pass Steelers pound the rock. Thats is steelers mentality and it works. I don't care about style points. I want a W and a SB and throwing short passes does nothing to guarantee that.


Cheatroits throw 4 yards passes because they don't even care to run.

[feltdizz]

The part we are frustrated is not the vertical stuff but the running game and predictable play calling or the red zone. Steelers never had problem moving the ball NEVER. Its the red zone offense which is killing this Offense. Dink and dunk offense is not going to cure that.


When your RB is going be No.1 WR you are not going to win much. As far as WR making plays can you tell me which WR on Steelers have great YAC?? Definately not hines ward or Mike Wallace.

You can't expect to have dink dunk offense if you are planning to throw ball 25 times. And you definately don't want to throw 4 yards passes on 3rd and 20.

YPA for QB matters a lot. Teams having QB with great YPA are always successful.


I never suggested our RB be the No 1 WR... where did you read that? How did a suggestion about throwing to the RB more in the flat turn into Mendenhall being our 1WR?


How many times Ben throw in game?? Instead of throwing a 4yard pass Steelers pound the rock. Thats is steelers mentality and it works. I don't care about style points. I want a W and a SB and throwing short passes does nothing to guarantee that.


Cheatroits throw 4 yards passes because they don't even care to run.

If you don't care about style points then you shouldn't care how we move the chains...

BA and Ben adjusted down the stretch on our way to the playoffs. Shorter drops and quicker passes to Sanders and Wallace.

We threw shorter passes and guess what? Our OL looked better because we didn't have to hold blocks all day for WR's to get 15 yards down field.

I don't care about style points either and that's why I think sprinkling in more of these patterns and getting Mend and Redman touches in the flat will help our team. Ben won't be so beat up either...

throwing in the flats is basically a hand off... Mend getting a few touches in space will do wonders for our offense and we won't become the Pats*... we will be the Steelers with another weapon for teams to adjust to.

[Crash]

BA and Ben adjusted down the stretch on our way to the playoffs. Shorter drops and quicker passes to Sanders and Wallace.

You mean Spaeth and Johnson were off the field and the wides were on?

Oh go on. I don't think anyone here has even suggested that, right?

[feltdizz]

BA and Ben adjusted down the stretch on our way to the playoffs. Shorter drops and quicker passes to Sanders and Wallace.

You mean Spaeth and Johnson were off the field and the wides were on?

Oh go on. I don't think anyone here has even suggested that, right?

when did I say anything about Spaeth or Johnson? :roll:

[hawaiiansteel]

Argument Starters: Best QB Seasons in Steelers History

Posted on February 28, 2011 by adam


Because who doesn’t like a list to argue about?

There’s certainly a lot of subjectivity here, as there always is with a list like this, mainly because it’s difficult, if not impossible, to compare players from different eras. Kordell Stewart’s passing numbers, in many cases, are superior to Terry Bradshaw’s, but that doesn’t mean anybody would take No. 10 over No. 12 with the game on the line. Or at any point, really. Some of Stewart’s numbers appear better than Bradshaw’s because Bradshaw played in an era that wasn’t aimed at improving offensive output or inflating passing statistics. There was no five-yard chuck rule, pass interference was unheard of, and wide receivers weren’t ever considered to be defenseless. It was a different era, with different rules, a different style of play and the numbers reflect that. Simply comparing the raw numbers without any context can be misleading, that’s why you have to try and compare how each player did against peers across the league in that particular season.

I place a high value on Yards Per Pass Attempt, and that plays a large role in my rankings. It paints a nice picture of how effective a quarterback is each time the football leaves his hand, and the higher the number, the bigger the play. And if there’s one thing we know about winning and losing in the NFL, it’s that the team with the most big plays is usually going to come out with the “W”.

So let’s get on with it…

5) Ben Roethlisberger, 2010

This season will be remembered more for the four-game suspension and the loss in Super Bowl XLV, but for the 12 games Roethlisberger was in the lineup he was on top of his game. An incredible 17-to-5 TD/int ratio, a completion percentage north of 60 percent, third in the NFL in yards per attempt and first in the NFL (for the second time in his career) in yards per completion. It was also one of his best seasons in terms of protecting the football, throwing only five interceptions in 389 attempts, a rate that was the 12th best single-season number in the history of the NFL.

4) Bobby Layne, 1958

The more I read about Bobby Layne the more I’m convinced he was reincarnated into Ben Roethlisberger. The words “clutch” and “toughness” are always mentioned and he was a noted party animal, probably to the point that if he was in today’s NFL … well, he probably wouldn’t have been able to play in Goodell’s NFL without a couple lengthy suspensions. He was also one of the last players to suit up without a face mask, which I guess is kind of like riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

Layne spent the last five years of his career with the Steelers after being acquired in 1958 in an early season trade with the Detroit Lions that convinced him to curse the Lions organization. They have been at the bottom of the NFL ever since. So there’s that.

He started 10 games with the Steelers in ’58 posting a 7-2-1 record for what had been, at that time, the NFL’s worst franchise. In those 10 starts he averaged almost nine yards per attempt, leading the league for the only time in his career, and threw 13 touchdowns to only 10 interceptions while also completing 50 percent of his passes (more than respectable numbers given the time period). His passer rating of 80.4 that year was good enough for (a distant) second in the NFL to only Johnny Unitas. In the end he finished in the top-three in the following categories: Yards per attempt (first), yards per completion (first by a wide margin), attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, passer rating, yards per game, and lowest interception ration (second lowest, trailing, again, only Unitas). It was one of the most effective and best seasons of his remarkable career, and it happened with the Steelers.

3) Terry Bradshaw, 1979

For the early part of Bradshaw’s career he didn’t really stack up all that well with quarterbacks across the league. His early struggles in Pittsburgh are well documented, and the Steelers also had a powerful running game to rely on. But around the mid to late ’70?s, Bradshaw’s career went to another level and the Steelers passing game began to open up. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this is also around the time Lynn Swann and John Stallworth became members of the offense. In 1979 the Steelers won their fourth Super Bowl with a come-from-behind win against the Los Angeles Rams in a game that saw Bradshaw throw for over 300 yards on just 21 passes, including two huge touchdowns to Swann and Stallworth.

The interception total during the regular season was a bit high (25, second most in the league) but across the board he was one of the best passers in the NFL, finishing in the top-four in yards, touchdowns, yards per attempt, yards per completion and touchdown percentage.

2) Terry Bradshaw, 1978

The third of Bradshaw’s four championship seasons was perhaps his best. The Steelers went 14-2 in the regular season, rolled through the AFC playoffs by a combined score of 77-15, and then edged Dallas in another classic Super Bowl, 35-31. Bradshaw led the NFL with 28 touchdown passes (he’s still the only Steeler quarterback to ever accomplish this, also leading the league in the strike-shortened 1982 season), averaged a league-best 7.9 yards per attempt, finished fourth with 14.1 yards per completion and had the second-best passer rating in the league (his highest finish in that category) trailing only Roger Staubach with an 84.7 mark.

1) Ben Roethlisberger, 2005

Roethlisberger’s second season in the NFL was, to this point, his best in my view. It was also the first of his three Super Bowl appearances and first of his two wins. The one thing most people take away from it is his Super Bowl XL performance, and how he was simply along for the ride on a great team. Clowns like Warren Sapp and Marshall Faulk use this game as the foundation for their argument that Roethlisberger is not among the game’s elite quarterbacks, and do everything in their power to knock him down to the ranks of Trent Dilfer in the annals of Super Bowl-winning Quarterbacks. And that is simply nonsense.

Ben was a machine during the 2005 season and for as forgettable as his showing in the final game was, the Steelers would have never been in a position to play in the game without his play.

He finished the regular season leading the NFL in yards per Pass attempt (8.9, 26th best single season in NFL history), and was one of only three players that season to average over eight yards per attempt. He also averaged 14.2 yards per completion, a full yard higher than the No. 2 passer on the list, Carolina’s Jake Delhomme (don’t laugh too hard, Delhomme and Steve Smith were a formidable connection in 2005, carrying the Panthers all the way to the NFC title game, and he was just two seasons removed from taking Carolina to the Super Bowl. This wasn’t Cleveland’s Jake Delhomme).

The playoff games leading up the 21-10 win over Seattle were simply dominating. During that three-game stretch against Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Denver (the No’s 1, 2 and 3 seeds in the AFC … all on the road) Roethlisberger completed over 68 percent of his passes, averaged almost nine-and-a-half yards per pass, and tossed seven touchdowns to just one interception. I remember watching the Broncos beat New England in the Divisional Round on a Saturday night, and listening to, I think it was Phil Simms, talk about the Steelers-Colts game the following day. His analysis came down to the Steelers needing a miracle to win, and the Steelers trying to “establish their will,” or some other line of football cliche, and attempt to come out and grind out a win on the ground. The Steelers came out with the exact opposite game plan, allowed Roethlisberger to throw it all over the Colts defense from the opening drive, and built a 21-3 lead, turning the game over to the ground attack. It was a similar strategy in the AFC Championship game in Denver. As it was for much of that season. And they did it with a group of pass catchers that consisted of Hines Ward, Heath Miller (rookie), Cedric Wilson, Antwaan Randle El and Quincy Morgan.

In some ways this season is a perfect example as to why Roethlisberger never gets the credit he deserves as a football player: He didn’t throw for a lot of yards or a lot of touchdowns … mainly because he didn’t have to. But when he did throw the football, he was as efficient and dominant as any passer in the NFL and was consistently making big, game-changing plays.

http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/02/a ... s-history/ (http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/02/argument-startersquarterback-seasons-steelers-history/)

[grotonsteel]

[b]
I place a high value on Yards Per Pass Attempt, and that plays a large role in my rankings. It paints a nice picture of how effective a quarterback is each time the football leaves his hand, and the higher the number, the bigger the play. And if there’s one thing we know about winning and losing in the NFL, it’s that the team with the most big plays is usually going to come out with the “W”.



http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/02/a ... s-history/ (http://www.steelerslounge.com/2011/02/argument-startersquarterback-seasons-steelers-history/)


:Clap :Agree

[Crash]

1979 Bradshaw was not better than 2007 Ben. The Steelers in 1979 led the NFL in turnovers and Terry had 20+ picks.

[ter1230_4]

I agree with Crash that Ben is the best QB that the Steelers have had since Bradshaw, and is one of the elite QB's in the NFL. Which is not to say that he is perfect. There is no question that a large percentage of the ties that Ben is sacked it is because he holds on to the ball too long because he is trying to make a play downfield, and I generally accept that as part of the whole package that is Ben. I do wish though that he would be a little more conscious of avoiding sacks when he finds himself in 3rd down between the 25 and 32 yard lines of the opposition, where a sack is likley to cost three points. It happened in the Super Bowl, and it seems to happen at least two or three times every season.

I also think that sometimes Ben becomes so obsessed with getting the ball downfield that he overlooks some really easy checkdown throws. One example is in this year's playoff game against the Ratbirds. With the score tied at 24, in the first down play on the series where Ben threw the 60 yard pass on 3rd and 19, he had Mendenhall WIDE OPEN in the right flat and he never even looked in that direction. Instead he got sacked for a loss of 9 yards. Same is true on the 3rd down play in the last possession of the Super Bowl when Moore was wide open for at least enough to get a 1st down.

Finally, I think that sometimes Ben focuses on one receiver instead of looking for the open receiver. On the 4th down incompletion on the last possession of the Super Bowl there was no way he should have been throwing to the receiver covered by Tramon Williams, who was by far the best secondary player GB had on the field. But it looked like Ben was locked into throwing to Wallace the entire play, no matter what.

Still, my bottom line is that I wouldn't trade Ben for any QB in the NFL.

[hawaiiansteel]

Ben Roethlisberger Is a Great Quarterback: Why the Haters Are Wrong

By mad chad (Correspondent) on February 28, 2011

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/145/422/109143530_crop_340x234.jpg?1298932393

Al Bello/Getty Images

So Ben Roethlisberger didn't play well in Super Bowl XLV. He threw two interceptions and the Pittsburgh Steelers lost to the Green Bay Packers.

Here come the haters.

Ben now has three touchdown passes and five interceptions in three career Super Bowl games. Not very impressive. That being said, Ben is still one of the best quarterbacks in the league and of his generation.

Since Ben has been in the league he's had good stats and has won two Super Bowls.

Yet, some suggest that he isn't an "elite" quarterback. That's insane. Why—because he doesn't throw for 4,000 yards every year? Jon Kitna threw for over 4,000 yards as a Detroit Lion; is he elite?

This is a result of the fantasy football generation, aka the stat geeks. Fantasy football is starting to destroy the perception of how players should be judged.

Most of Roethlsberger's detractors say that he only wins because of his defense and running game.

That's true in small doses, but he is certainly a big reason why the Steelers were competing for their third Super Bowl in six years.

Since Roethlisberger has been the starting quarterback for the Steelers, he's been a winner; more than that, he's been clutch in big games and in big moments.

The dictionary defines clutch as "tending to be successful in tense or critical situations."

That's a perfect definition—and defines Big Ben perfectly. Sure, he came up short in the Super Bowl. But let's face it: He wasn't getting much help from his receivers or his offensive line—not to mention that he has to quarterback a team that might have the worst play-caller in the NFL.

I have no excuses for Ben and his play in the Super Bowl; he didn't play well. But who on the Steelers did? Rashard Mendenhall? Up until his fumble he did, but that fumble cost the Steelers the game. The defense couldn't stop Aaron Rodgers and the Packers to save their lives. Where was Troy Polamalu? Did he even play?

Fact is, Ben almost led the Steelers to one of the biggest comebacks in Super Bowl history; he came up short. Does that mean that he's not clutch?

Tom Brady has lost three straight playoff games and has been awful in two of them. Is he still a great QB? Is he still clutch?

In the 2010 playoffs, Roethlisberger received some help from the defense as they forced a couple of turnovers. Ben and the offense did their job, took advantage and turned those turnovers into two touchdowns.

Against the Ravens, he led the Steelers on an 11-play, 65-yard touchdown drive that eventually won the game.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/138/201/109134550_crop_340x234.jpg?1298932542

Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images

Even more impressive is the poise that Ben possesses in these kinds of moments.

The drive had come to a halt as the Steelers stared at an impossible 3rd-and-19. Ben decided to change the play call, drop back and toss a 54-yard bomb to rookie receiver Antonio Brown.

The throw was perfect and almost went for a touchdown, but Brown's momentum carried him out of bounds.

A few plays later, Rashard Mendenhall carried the ball into the end zone for the game-winning touchdown.

Against the Jets in the AFC Championship game, Roethlisberger did not play great, but he still made some clutch plays and helped his team win.

He completed two passes on third downs late in the game, clinching the victory. He wasn't throwing the ball well, so he used his feet, running for three first downs and a touchdown.

For me and fellow Big Ben and Steelers fans, it's nothing new and certainly isn't surprising—Ben has always embraced these moments since he's been a Steeler.

He has the most fourth-quarter game-winning drives and fourth-quarter comebacks since he's been in the league.

Roethlisberger has a regular season record of 60-26—but perhaps most impressively, he is now 10-3 as a starter in the playoffs.

He engineered possibly the most dramatic Super Bowl drive and game-winning touchdown pass in history, and has a total of two Super Bowl rings and four AFC Championship appearances in just seven years.

At some point, I just have to throw my hands up in the air and say there's an anti-Roethlisberger bias.

I know some people don't like the guy, as there's a perception that he's not a "good" guy. But as far as being a quarterback and player goes, he's special.

Yes, he has been blessed with a good supporting cast—he's been blessed by being drafted to a franchise that is committed to winning.

That being said, how many Super Bowls did the Steelers win after Terry Bradshaw retired and before Ben became the quarterback?

The Steelers had championship-caliber teams in the '90s and in the the early 2000s, yet they never had a championship-caliber quarterback.

Kordell Stewart threw three interceptions in two home AFC Championship games. Neil O'Donnell almost single-handedly lost Super Bowl XXX.

What if the Steelers had Roethlisberger on some of those teams?

Yes, Roethlisberger was drafted to a good team and to a good franchise—but the Steelers were just 6-10 the year before Ben got here.

He rejuvenated the Steelers, going 15-0 in the regular season his rookie year. He made big plays and gave the team a newfound energy.

People have made a big deal that the Steelers went 3-1 this year without Roethlisberger, yet the Patriots went 11-5 without Brady two years ago. Again, there's a double standard when it comes to Ben.

What separates Roethlisberger from other quarterbacks is something that you can't teach. His physical and mental toughness is what makes him special. Ben can have a miserable first half and find a way to prevail in the end.

What I don't understand is why people fail to mention Roethlisberger with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Is it because of his stats?

Do these people not realize that Ben is the eighth-highest-rated passer in NFL history? Did Ben not go 9-6 last year while throwing for over 4,300 yards, with 26 touchdowns and a QB rating over 100?

I hear a lot of people say that it's the team, not Roethlisberger. I hear people say that if you put Peyton on the Steelers, he would have multiple Super Bowls as well. That's ridiculous.

Manning is a choke artist.

He has had a top 10 defenses four different times in his career (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009), including the best defense in the NFL in 2007. He's also played with more Pro Bowlers than Big Ben.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/138/198/107963530_crop_340x234.jpg?1298932471

Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images

If you say to me, "Give Peyton Manning the Steelers' defense," I'll say, "OK—let Roethlisberger throw to Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark and Marvin Harrison with Edgerrin James in the backfield in a dome with a perfect climate."

If you want Manning to have Roethlisberger's defense, then he has to play outside in Pittsburgh, behind Ben's offensive line, with Roethlisberger's receivers.

Are these same people suggesting that Tom Brady has never benefited from good defenses? The Patriots have had a top 10 defense in eight of the last 10 seasons, including the best scoring defense twice.

Now Aaron Rodgers is considered an elite QB. That's fine; but his defense was ranked second in the NFL this year in scoring defense.

Roethlisberger got killed for winning the AFC Championship with no TD passes, two picks and a 35 QB rating. Yet Rodgers also won the NFC Championship with zero TD and two picks.

Can someone say double standard?

Aside from having the eighth-best quarterback rating of all time, Ben has the fourth-best yards-per-attempt in NFL history.

My opinion is that fantasy football geeks and stat junkies get mad because they don't have a way of understanding how Ben always seems to find a way to get a victory.

It's because he's a natural winner. He has "it." "It" can't be explained, but Ben has it.

You have to talk about him being an all-time great. Then you have to put him in with Brady and Manning regardless of stats or what the "experts" might think.

All I know is that despite all the stats and arguing, one thing is for sure—Roethlisberger is clutch.

When his career is over, Roethlisberger may end up being the best clutch quarterback of his generation and maybe even of all time.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6203 ... uarterback (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/620380-the-haters-are-wrong-ben-roethlisberger-is-a-great-quarterback)

[Crash]

He has had a top 10 defenses four different times in his career (2005, 2007, 2008, 2009), including the best defense in the NFL in 2007

And every one of those years is with Ben in the league.

But yet his ignorant sheep still cry their PR spin because he gags worse than Kordell did in Schenley Park.

[feltdizz]

I agree with Crash that Ben is the best QB that the Steelers have had since Bradshaw, and is one of the elite QB's in the NFL. Which is not to say that he is perfect. There is no question that a large percentage of the ties that Ben is sacked it is because he holds on to the ball too long because he is trying to make a play downfield, and I generally accept that as part of the whole package that is Ben. I do wish though that he would be a little more conscious of avoiding sacks when he finds himself in 3rd down between the 25 and 32 yard lines of the opposition, where a sack is likley to cost three points. It happened in the Super Bowl, and it seems to happen at least two or three times every season.

I also think that sometimes Ben becomes so obsessed with getting the ball downfield that he overlooks some really easy checkdown throws. One example is in this year's playoff game against the Ratbirds. With the score tied at 24, in the first down play on the series where Ben threw the 60 yard pass on 3rd and 19, he had Mendenhall WIDE OPEN in the right flat and he never even looked in that direction. Instead he got sacked for a loss of 9 yards. Same is true on the 3rd down play in the last possession of the Super Bowl when Moore was wide open for at least enough to get a 1st down.

Finally, I think that sometimes Ben focuses on one receiver instead of looking for the open receiver. On the 4th down incompletion on the last possession of the Super Bowl there was no way he should have been throwing to the receiver covered by Tramon Williams, who was by far the best secondary player GB had on the field. But it looked like Ben was locked into throwing to Wallace the entire play, no matter what.

Still, my bottom line is that I wouldn't trade Ben for any QB in the NFL.

You agree with Crash but I doubt he agrees with you... :Cheers

[BURGH86STEEL]

I agree with Crash that Ben is the best QB that the Steelers have had since Bradshaw, and is one of the elite QB's in the NFL. Which is not to say that he is perfect. There is no question that a large percentage of the ties that Ben is sacked it is because he holds on to the ball too long because he is trying to make a play downfield, and I generally accept that as part of the whole package that is Ben. I do wish though that he would be a little more conscious of avoiding sacks when he finds himself in 3rd down between the 25 and 32 yard lines of the opposition, where a sack is likley to cost three points. It happened in the Super Bowl, and it seems to happen at least two or three times every season.

I also think that sometimes Ben becomes so obsessed with getting the ball downfield that he overlooks some really easy checkdown throws. One example is in this year's playoff game against the Ratbirds. With the score tied at 24, in the first down play on the series where Ben threw the 60 yard pass on 3rd and 19, he had Mendenhall WIDE OPEN in the right flat and he never even looked in that direction. Instead he got sacked for a loss of 9 yards. Same is true on the 3rd down play in the last possession of the Super Bowl when Moore was wide open for at least enough to get a 1st down.

Finally, I think that sometimes Ben focuses on one receiver instead of looking for the open receiver. On the 4th down incompletion on the last possession of the Super Bowl there was no way he should have been throwing to the receiver covered by Tramon Williams, who was by far the best secondary player GB had on the field. But it looked like Ben was locked into throwing to Wallace the entire play, no matter what.

Still, my bottom line is that I wouldn't trade Ben for any QB in the NFL.

You agree with Crash but I doubt he agrees with you... :Cheers
:lol: :lol:

[birtikidis]

Why anyone would want to cut part of the offense out is beyond me. There is nothing wrong with the short passing game, intermediate, or the vertical. Keeping the defense guessing is where the problem is. Like crash said, most of the time when Johnson and Spaeth are on the field you know it's going to be a run. I don't hate either player, both have their positives, it's the type of play that is called when they're on the field. Using Johnson as a lead blocker is also ridiculous. The guy is a TE, he's played his entire career as a TE. He is a good blocking TE. Nothing he does makes me think he is a good lead blocker. I'd rather have an actual FB that can catch and block... is that too much to ask for?

[Blockhead]

Why anyone would want to cut part of the offense out is beyond me. There is nothing wrong with the short passing game, intermediate, or the vertical. Keeping the defense guessing is where the problem is. Like crash said, most of the time when Johnson and Spaeth are on the field you know it's going to be a run. I don't hate either player, both have their positives, it's the type of play that is called when they're on the field. Using Johnson as a lead blocker is also ridiculous. The guy is a TE, he's played his entire career as a TE. He is a good blocking TE. Nothing he does makes me think he is a good lead blocker. I'd rather have an actual FB that can catch and block... is that too much to ask for?
Agreed. The multiple te offense can be devastating, both in the passing and running game. The problem is our idiot OC or QB, whoever is calling the plays(Ben controls most according to many) at the time, doesn't have a clue and our moron HC won't hire an OC who will coach and teach Ben how to run the offense correctly. As long as Arians stays, Ben will continue to be inconsistent and a physical player but a mental midget.

[Crash]

Why anyone would want to cut part of the offense out is beyond me. There is nothing wrong with the short passing game, intermediate, or the vertical. Keeping the defense guessing is where the problem is. Like crash said, most of the time when Johnson and Spaeth are on the field you know it's going to be a run. I don't hate either player, both have their positives, it's the type of play that is called when they're on the field. Using Johnson as a lead blocker is also ridiculous. The guy is a TE, he's played his entire career as a TE. He is a good blocking TE. Nothing he does makes me think he is a good lead blocker. I'd rather have an actual FB that can catch and block... is that too much to ask for?
Agreed. The multiple te offense can be devastating, both in the passing and running game. The problem is our idiot OC or QB, whoever is calling the plays(Ben controls most according to many) at the time, doesn't have a clue and our moron HC won't hire an OC who will coach and teach Ben how to run the offense correctly. As long as Arians stays, Ben will continue to be inconsistent and a physical player but a mental midget.

Ben calls plays in the no huddle and when he audibles 43, you know this. Don't come on this board spewing your crap.

Ben does not decide what formations are brought in the huddle and who comes in and who goes out, that's Arians.

The two TE set is garbage. It's a speed league now, and the ONLY time this offense really works, is when we use the speed we have.

[Blockhead]

The two TE set is garbage. It's a speed league now, and the ONLY time this offense really works, is when we use the speed we have.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do quite well with multiple te packages. The multiple te packages can be devastating, both in the run and pass game, when ran correctly.

[feltdizz]

Why anyone would want to cut part of the offense out is beyond me. There is nothing wrong with the short passing game, intermediate, or the vertical. Keeping the defense guessing is where the problem is. Like crash said, most of the time when Johnson and Spaeth are on the field you know it's going to be a run. I don't hate either player, both have their positives, it's the type of play that is called when they're on the field. Using Johnson as a lead blocker is also ridiculous. The guy is a TE, he's played his entire career as a TE. He is a good blocking TE. Nothing he does makes me think he is a good lead blocker. I'd rather have an actual FB that can catch and block... is that too much to ask for?

Who said anything about cutting something out? Most are suggesting adding onto what we already have.

If you don't think the short passing game can be improved on that is your opinion.

We added more slants and shorter routes after Ben had a club foot and a broken nose.

Do you think Mend can be a lethal RB in the flats? I sure do and every time he has caught a pass out there he makes the first guy miss and picks up 8 to 10 yards.

I have no idea why more of these passes would "hurt" the offense.

[Crash]

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do quite well with multiple te packages.

When does Peyton use them? His offense now is majority three WR sets. Jacob Tamme had 6 catches in two years prior to Dallas' Clarks injury. Gijon Robinson has 12 catches in two years.

Brady's "2nd TE" is an H-back role. I wish we would do that more. Movement, motion, move guys around. But we insist on pea-brain, simple minded smash mouth football with Waste of Spaeth and David Johnson.

You aren't in the Steelers offices nor their huddle 43, you don't know how the offense is run.

[Blockhead]

you don't know how the offense is run.

I played football at various levels. You never played any level.

I have a much larger grasp of offense and especially defense than you. You can't even tell the difference between zone and man, which has been confirmed multiple times by your quotes.

[Crash]

you don't know how the offense is run.

I played football at various levels. You never played any level.

I have a much larger grasp of offense and especially defense than you. You can't even tell the difference between zone and man, which has been confirmed multiple times by your quotes.

You aren't in the Steelers offices nor their huddle 43, you don't know how the offense is run.

[Blockhead]

you don't know how the offense is run.
My background gives me a much better base of understanding than someone like yourself.

[birtikidis]

Felt, I'm not saying that anyone here said it. I'm saying ti's what we do. we don't use a fb. we don't have a lot of underneath options. etc.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Felt, I'm not saying that anyone here said it. I'm saying ti's what we do. we don't use a fb. we don't have a lot of underneath options. etc.

Not having a true FB is not a big issue as far as I am concerned. It's a personal philosophy. The bottom line is execution. People screamed predictability as soon as they lined up a with a FB in the backfield. The same way they screamed it with the TE sets on the field. They passed or ran regardless of who was out on the field. They ran more out of certain formations just like they passed more out of certain formations.

I don't know what one would consider a lot of underneath options. I do know they provided underneath options in the passing game. The QB makes the final decision where he wants to go with the football.

[feltdizz]

take the fastest guy in the league and make him run backwards before running forward. Great idea! :roll:

Instead of running those wack azzz bubble screens with Wallace and Hines...
Why not fake that and throw to Mend in the flat the other way?

Wallace has shown how dangerous he is... why are we asking him to run 20 yards on every route before he can touch the ball? I know showed flashes late in the season but this is what we were screaming for when Ben was getting his nose broke.

When is the last time we saw Mend as the first option in a pass play? Why isn't he catching 40 to 50 balls out of the backfield right now? That's 3 passes a game..

How many times have we seen our WR's run AFTER the catch? Think about it... Wallace can burn, Brown can burn and so can Sanders.

I don't buy the "we don't do it" because we did it... but I think we need to do it before Ben gets crushed instead of waiting until he has taken a ton of hits and is on one leg.

There were so many times in the NO game where the Saints dared us to throw underneath and we refused to do it. The ball can be caught short of the first down and advanced... but there were times it looked like we didn't believe it was possible.

[Crash]

When is the last time we saw Mend as the first option in a pass play? Why isn't he catching 40 to 50 balls out of the backfield right now? That's 3 passes a game..

Because we're the Stillers and we need to run the ball.

[grotonsteel]

When is the last time we saw Mend as the first option in a pass play? Why isn't he catching 40 to 50 balls out of the backfield right now? That's 3 passes a game..

Because we're the Stillers and we need to run the ball.

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

[papillon]

When is the last time we saw Mend as the first option in a pass play? Why isn't he catching 40 to 50 balls out of the backfield right now? That's 3 passes a game..

Because we're the Stillers and we need to run the ball.

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

I think what he is saying is to keep Mendy's touches the same, but eliminate 35-40 running plays and replace them with swing passes, flat passes, screen passes, etc that effectively function as a running play. It may also reduce Mendy's wear and tear if he isn't running into 300 pound defensive linemen and taking on 240 pound LBs or 200 pound safeties and corner backs.

I don't think the Steelers want to increase Mendy's touches.

Pappy

[grotonsteel]

When is the last time we saw Mend as the first option in a pass play? Why isn't he catching 40 to 50 balls out of the backfield right now? That's 3 passes a game..

Because we're the Stillers and we need to run the ball.

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

I think what he is saying is to keep Mendy's touches the same, but eliminate 35-40 running plays and replace them with swing passes, flat passes, screen passes, etc that effectively function as a running play. It may also reduce Mendy's wear and tear if he isn't running into 300 pound defensive linemen and taking on 240 pound LBs or 200 pound safeties and corner backs.

I don't think the Steelers want to increase Mendy's touches.

Pappy


Well sounds good on paper but unfortunately Steelers don't so it that way. They want to pound the ball and wear down the opposition.

Again if Steelers start throwing more then it makes perfect sense to have short passes. But if you are going to throw only say 25 times a game it does not make sense for this dink and dunk offense.

[feltdizz]

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

3 catches a game is not a lot....

do you really think we can feed Mend 325 times every year?

Those 3 passes a game would replace 3 RUTFM's... do you think it's wise for Mend to have 325 carries?

That is insane.

[feltdizz]

Well sounds good on paper but unfortunately Steelers don't so it that way. They want to pound the ball and wear down the opposition.

Again if Steelers start throwing more then it makes perfect sense to have short passes. But if you are going to throw only say 25 times a game it does not make sense for this dink and dunk offense.

who said trade our O for dink and dunk?

Mend already runs in the flat... all I'm saying is Ben will take less hits and keep blitzing D's honest if he threw to the RB a few times a game.

[grotonsteel]

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

3 catches a game is not a lot....

do you really think we can feed Mend 325 times every year?

Those 3 passes a game would replace 3 RUTFM's... do you think it's wise for Mend to have 325 carries?

That is insane.

I am not a fan of 325 carries. It will end Mendy carrier pretty quickly.

As i said i don't have any problem with Ben throwing more to Mendy but i don't want any throws away from Wallace/Brown/Ward or Manny.

If steelers are going to throw more it makes perfect sense to throw more to your RB/TE.

But if they are going throw same way as they did it in 2010 you have to take ball out of Wallace/Ward hands who are playmakers in the passing game.

[feltdizz]

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

3 catches a game is not a lot....

do you really think we can feed Mend 325 times every year?

Those 3 passes a game would replace 3 RUTFM's... do you think it's wise for Mend to have 325 carries?

That is insane.

I am not a fan of 325 carries. It will end Mendy carrier pretty quickly.

As i said i don't have any problem with Ben throwing more to Mendy but i don't want any throws away from Wallace/Brown/Ward or Manny.

If steelers are going to throw more it makes perfect sense to throw more to your RB/TE.

But if they are going throw same way as they did it in 2010 you have to take ball out of Wallace/Ward hands who are playmakers in the passing game.

I disagree... Ben doesn't complete every pass so some of those incompletions to Sanders and Wallace would turn into completions and 1st downs with Mend...

and Ben would take less abuse.

[grotonsteel]

I have been telling ya Steelers love to run the ball instead of throwing 4 yard passes to RB. That is how Steelers team are built. Great Defense. Take time off the clock and let the D take over a close game.

50 catches to a RB???? Dude are you kidding me....???????

Here are the breakdown for 2010

Mike Wallace -60 catches
Hines Ward - 59
Manny - 28
Brown -16
Mendy -16

Now you want Mendy to catch 50 times +325 carries??? Are you out of your mind???

This is a perfect recipe for a defeat. So you are telling lets throw less to Wallace and Ward and throw more to Mendy. :lol:

Again your dink and dunk won't work when you are throwing 25 times a game.

3 catches a game is not a lot....

do you really think we can feed Mend 325 times every year?

Those 3 passes a game would replace 3 RUTFM's... do you think it's wise for Mend to have 325 carries?

That is insane.

I am not a fan of 325 carries. It will end Mendy carrier pretty quickly.

As i said i don't have any problem with Ben throwing more to Mendy but i don't want any throws away from Wallace/Brown/Ward or Manny.

If steelers are going to throw more it makes perfect sense to throw more to your RB/TE.

But if they are going throw same way as they did it in 2010 you have to take ball out of Wallace/Ward hands who are playmakers in the passing game.

I disagree... Ben doesn't complete every pass so some of those incompletions to Sanders and Wallace would turn into completions and 1st downs with Mend...

and Ben would take less abuse.

What kind of statement is that??? Its beyond stupidity. You want Ben to throw 50 times to Mendy with same number of pass attempts???? BTW no QB throws 100% completion.

If Ben is not even trying to get to Wallace or Sanders how are they going to get the ball.

[feltdizz]

3 passes a game to Mend will not take every pass attempt away from Wallace or Sanders.

If 25 pass attempts is your average 22 going to the rest of the team isn't extreme.

Do you really think those bubble screens are working? I don't.

I thinl your crazy to talk like Mend catching a few passes a game is a negative for our team. It would extend drives and grind more clock allowing for more pass attempts

[RuthlessBurgher]

For reference:

John L. Williams caught over 50 passes for us in one season in the mid 90's. Merril Hoge caught 50 passes in one season in the late 80's (and had 2 other seasons with 40 or more catches). Even Amos Zereoue had 2 consecutive seasons in which he caught 40 or more passes.

[feltdizz]

What kind of statement is that??? Its beyond stupidity. You want Ben to throw 50 times to Mendy with same number of pass attempts???? BTW no QB throws 100% completion.

If Ben is not even trying to get to Wallace or Sanders how are they going to get the ball.

3 pass attempts = not even trying to get the ball to anyone else?

yeah.. that is beyond stupidity, but you said it not me! :Cheers

oh.. and it's hard to get a real grasp of the reception totals given our run heavy O without Ben the first 4 games

[grotonsteel]

What kind of statement is that??? Its beyond stupidity. You want Ben to throw 50 times to Mendy with same number of pass attempts???? BTW no QB throws 100% completion.

If Ben is not even trying to get to Wallace or Sanders how are they going to get the ball.

3 pass attempts = not even trying to get the ball to anyone else?

yeah.. that is beyond stupidity, but you said it not me! :Cheers

oh.. and it's hard to get a real grasp of the reception totals given our run heavy O without Ben the first 4 games


Mendy
2010 : 324 carries + 23 catches
2009: 242 carries + 25 catches

Mewalde Moore

2010: 35 carries + 26 catches
2009: 33 carries + 21 catches


Its not like Ben ignores his RB. How many more catches you want??? Your RB does catch 50 times a season.

As far as bubble screen goes it does work except when they throw the bubble screen to Hines Ward.

[Crash]

They don't watch. A LOT of the time Ben doesn't have a RB check down because the back is blocking. He's not even an option.

When the offense is rid pf Spaeth and Johnson then people can talk.

[feltdizz]

What kind of statement is that??? Its beyond stupidity. You want Ben to throw 50 times to Mendy with same number of pass attempts???? BTW no QB throws 100% completion.

If Ben is not even trying to get to Wallace or Sanders how are they going to get the ball.

3 pass attempts = not even trying to get the ball to anyone else?

yeah.. that is beyond stupidity, but you said it not me! :Cheers

oh.. and it's hard to get a real grasp of the reception totals given our run heavy O without Ben the first 4 games


Mendy
2010 : 324 carries + 23 catches
2009: 242 carries + 25 catches

Mewalde Moore

2010: 35 carries + 26 catches
2009: 33 carries + 21 catches


Its not like Ben ignores his RB. How many more catches you want??? Your RB does catch 50 times a season.

As far as bubble screen goes it does work except when they throw the bubble screen to Hines Ward.

Like I said a million times before... I want MENDENHALL to get 40 to 50 catches.

[ScoreKeeper]

What kind of statement is that??? Its beyond stupidity. You want Ben to throw 50 times to Mendy with same number of pass attempts???? BTW no QB throws 100% completion.

If Ben is not even trying to get to Wallace or Sanders how are they going to get the ball.

3 pass attempts = not even trying to get the ball to anyone else?

yeah.. that is beyond stupidity, but you said it not me! :Cheers

oh.. and it's hard to get a real grasp of the reception totals given our run heavy O without Ben the first 4 games


Mendy
2010 : 324 carries + 23 catches
2009: 242 carries + 25 catches

Mewalde Moore

2010: 35 carries + 26 catches
2009: 33 carries + 21 catches


Its not like Ben ignores his RB. How many more catches you want??? Your RB does catch 50 times a season.

As far as bubble screen goes it does work except when they throw the bubble screen to Hines Ward.

Like I said a million times before... I want MENDENHALL to get 40 to 50 catches.
Then draft a better line, talk to BA, and make your voice listened to high into the mountains, about not keeping Mendy in to block.

[feltdizz]

They don't watch. A LOT of the time Ben doesn't have a RB check down because the back is blocking. He's not even an option.


When we pass to the RB on designed pass plays (not screens) good things happen.

Our RB is in there blocking because we are trying to go down field all the time. Use him as another weapon on pass plays and watch the D adjust.

[hawaiiansteel]

Behind the Steel Curtain

with Michael Bean


Ben Roethlisberger seemed "off" during the playoffs. Any thoughts as to why? Dale Lolley suggested in his blog receivers ran incorrect routes. Is this so in your opinion or was there more to the issues in the passing game?

I'm more inclined to trust Lolley's assessment about receivers' incorrect route-running than anything. But I would also cite the incredible amount of pain that Roethlisberger played through late in the season, and in the playoffs in particular.

In both the Jets and Packers games, Roethlisberger absorbed huge hits early in the game. That's nothing too new though. However, Big Ben played those games with a broken bone in his right foot. We're so used to Roethlisberger playing through extreme pain that I think it's easy to lose sight of just how a QBs mechanics are affected when they stray from their usual throwing routine in order to compensate for or diffuse pain. Quarterbacks plant with their right foot, so I really don't find it all that shocking that Roethlisberger was uncharacteristically sporadic with his throws in the playoffs.

I don't know if he seemed 'off' to me. I'd also mention that the guy played a pretty dang good game against the Ravens (19-of-32, 226 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INT, 101+ QB rating). The accuracy wasn't quite there, but people might be forgetting the conditions in Pittsburgh that night -- cold, REAL cold, like -5 degrees wind chill cold. As disappointing
as the Super Bowl, I'll never forget that Divisional Round win over the Ravens. Big Ben was a big part of that memorable night. And finally, let's not forget the defense gets paid handsomely too. And the Ravens, Jets, and Packers just so happen to be three of the elite units in the NFL.

Do you think the organization stood behind its players enough - specifically Roethlisberger and Harrison - as they struggled with Roger Goodell and the NFL front office this season?

Yes, I think Coach Tomlin and the Rooneys handled both situations to perfection.

http://www.pittsburghsportsdailybulleti ... age37.html (http://www.pittsburghsportsdailybulletin.com/page37.html)

[Crash]

Do you think the organization stood behind its players enough - specifically Roethlisberger and Harrison - as they struggled with Roger Goodell and the NFL front office this season?

Tomlin did.

The Rooney's did not.

[hawaiiansteel]

Newton’s QB tutor: Roethlisberger is Cam’s “NFL model”

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 14, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/c-newton2.jpg?w=232


While Auburn quarterback Cam Newton should use a different role model off the field, his private quarterback tutor George Whitfield says Newton will try to emulate Ben Roethlisberger on the field.

“I think that’s Cam’s NFL model, in that, they are both built like power-forwards in the NBA,” Whitfield told Chris Russell of ESPN 980 in Washington. “They’re both winners, they close out games, and they have an ability to extend plays.”

Newton may have dialed Whitfield up, in fact, for his noted work with Roethlisberger in the past. The comparison is apt.

Many of the questions surrounding Roethlisberger when he came out of college included his inexperience reading defenses. They are both at their best improvising. Draft analysts thought Big Ben might be a bit of a project (like Newton), but he wound up playing very well for a rookie quarterback.

There are differences, of course: Newton is clearly a more athletic runner, while Roethlisberger had fewer questions about his deep ball accuracy.

Whitfield believes Newton can take what Roethlisberger does to another level.

“I think Ben is a Hummer, and Cam is a Hummer 2, with racing stripes and a spoiler,” Whitfield said.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... nfl-model/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/14/newtons-qb-tutor-roethlisberger-is-cams-nfl-model/)

[RuthlessBurgher]

I think Ben is a Hummer

Considering the Milledgeville accusations, I think he could have used a better automobile analogy here. :lol:

[ghettoscott]

23 pages! is this the longest thread in PS history? :shock:

why does my emoticon look like it has a white outline?

[hawaiiansteel]

Ben Roethlisberger's Spectacular 2010 Season in the Fourth Quarter and on Third Down

by Michael Bean on Mar 17, 2011

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/956463/gyi0062089000.jpg

(Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)

Let's begin with Ben Roethlisbeger's passing numbers in two key situations -- in the fourth quarter and on third down. Now, being great in the fourth quarter or on third down isn't enough. Not if you lay an egg in other quarters or downs. But obviously both categories are significant. You get a chance to make up for mishaps on first and second down; you have to punt it away if you falter on third down. Same applies to quarters one through three. So long as you're not disastrous in the early stages of game, you can always make up for it in the fourth and final quarter. So, though they don't correlate directly to team success, it's hard to argue that successful performance by your quarterback in the final 15 minutes and on third downs is paramount to a team's success.

Fourth Quarter Passing Leaders (AFC)

Rank Player Comp-Att Comp % Yards Yards/Att. TDs TD % INTs INT % Rating
1 Ben Roethlisberger 55-83 66.3 796 9.59 7 6.4 3 3.6 110.3
2 David Garrard 55-82 61.2 667 7.85 7 8.2 1 1.3 108.3
3 Tom Brady 63-97 64.9 736 7.59 8 8.2 2 2.1 106.7
4 Phillip Rivers 92-145 63.4 1122 7.74 10 6.9 3 2.1 101.6
5 Jason Campbell 59-94 62.8 756 8.04 4 4.3 1 1.1 97.7
6 Matt Schuab 113-182 62.1 1371 7.54 9 4.9 3 1.6 94.8
7 Peyton Manning 107-166 64.5 1213 7.31 8 4.8 4 2.4 92.3
8 Colt McCoy 45-71 63.4 566 7.97 4 5.6 3 4.3 89.3
9 Joe Flacco 68-106 64.2 735 6.93 4 3.8 2 1.9 89.2
10 Kyle Orton 97-169 57.4 1156 6.84 9 5.3 4 2.4 86.3


A couple of quick notes:

The chart above just shows the AFC leaders, but you'll have to trust me when I tell you that Roethlisberger's 4th quarter numbers also overshadow the top late-game performers in the NFC. Michael Vick was the NFC's highest rated passer (106.9). Vick also led the conference in yards/attempt (8.53). Aaron Rodgers meanwhile posted the best completion percentage (66.0). Add it all up and Big Ben is your NFL leader in fourth quarter passing -- at least in terms of rating, completion percentage, and yards/attempt.
I had no idea that David Garrrard had such a solid year in the fourth quarter. The Jaguars' signal caller had a much improved season compared to '09, but his final numbers don't jump out at you. Must mean he was much more pedestrian in quarters one through three.

Mr. Clutch..aka Peyton Manning wasn't all that special in 2010 in the final fifteen minutes of games. Not bad, that's for sure. But not great either.

Colt McCoy surely wishes he could have done more to help the Browns win more games, but he's being too hard on himself if he hasn't taken a moment to reflect on the solid experience he accumulated during his rookie year -- a season that was supposed to see him relegated to the bench no matter the circumstances.

Let's turn our attention now to third down passing stats. Successful passing on third down is important for obvious reasons, but as you'll see below, of the six highest rated AFC QBs on 3rd down passing attempts, only Brady and Roethlisberger led their teams to playoff berths. Let's take a look.


Third Down Passing Leaders (AFC)

Rank Player Comp-Att. Comp. % Yards Yards/Attempt TDs TD % INTs INT% Rating
1 Tom Brady 83-137 60.6 1139 8.71 15 10.9 2 1.5 119.3
2 Ben Roethlisberger 70-107 65.4 939 8.78 8 7.5 1 0.9 114.2
3 Philip Rivers 91-155 58.7 1312 8.46 10 6.5 5 3.2 94.3
4 Ryan Fitzpatrick 77-132 58.3 1026 7.77 9 6.8 4 3.0 93.2
5 Matt Schaub 79-130 60.8 862 6.63 4 3.1 0 0.0 90.6
6 Jason Campbell 54-102 52.9 756 7.41 6 5.9 2 2.0 88.5
7 Matt Cassel 78-144 54.2 1038 7.21 7 4.9 3 2.1 84.8
8 Joe Flacco 85-148 57.4 1172 7.92 7 4.7 5 3.4 84.6
9 David Garrard 62-100 62.0 694 6.94 6 6.0 5 5.0 81.8
10 Chad Henne 81-142 57.0 938 6.61 7 4.9 7 4.9 73.0


A few more notes on this set of data:

Tom Brady was filthy on third down last year. A TD toss every 9 pass attempts. Ridiculous. Too bad it was all for not as New England was impotent against the Jets in their playoff loss.

Roethlisberger wasn't too shabby himself. He posted the highest yards/attempt mark in the conference, as well as the highest completion percentage. His TD percentage and rating were second best. Only Jon Kitna completed a higher percentage of third down passes (70.4), and no NFC QB matched Roethlisberger's rating on third down.

So, even though your most recent memory of Ben Roethlisberger was of him making two costly mistakes in the Steelers' loss to the Packers in Super Bowl XLV, don't forget that history is made up of more than just the last thing you can remember. Last year, Roethlisberger played at a higher level than he ever has in his seven year career. He made smart decisions with the football, he took appropriate chances down the field, he was accurate, he distributed the ball amongst his bevy of playmakers, and as we've just seen, he raised his game to an even higher level on third down situations and late in games. Not bad, I'd say. Not bad at all.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... lers-stats (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/3/17/2055026/a-sampling-of-steelers-stats)

[papillon]

Wow, I knew Ben played well late in games and on 3rd down, but I didn't think it was that good and Tom Brady was on another level on third down this past year.

Pappy

[ikestops85]

That Jason Campbell is on both lists makes me wonder if they tell us anything.