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View Full Version : Will The Pittsburgh Steelers Trade Up For Mike Pouncey?



plainnasty
02-15-2011, 04:20 PM
Going To The Super Bowl May Cost Steelers The Draft Pick They Really Want

When preparing a draft strategy, teams put together a Big Board of players they want in the first round. That board is whittled down to players they think they can get. It then becomes a the battle of wants versus needs relative to your draft position.

The player you want may be a Top 10 pick and you pick 22nd. In the Steelers' case, they pick 31st and Mike Pouncey isn't going to last that long.

Given how good his twin brother was in 2010, Pouncey will be getting a lot more interest, and there are plenty of teams ahead of the Steelers who need offensive lineman.

This means if the Steelers want to secure Pouncey's rights, they will have to trade up to get him. If there is any player in the draft worth trading up for relative to the team's needs, Pouncey fits that bill.

If the Steelers are able to acquire Pouncey and install him on the line next to his brother, they will have the most solid offensive line since Ben Roethlisberger joined the team. With Willie Colon coming back next year, that gives the Steelers three core lineman to protect the quarterback Head Coach Mike Tomlin knows he can rely on.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6095 ... ke-pouncey (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/609557-michael-vick-nfl-combine-2011-kevin-kolb-and-tuesdays-top-nfl-news/entry/47755-2011-nfl-draft-will-the-pittsburgh-steelers-trade-up-for-mike-pouncey)

Oviedo
02-15-2011, 04:22 PM
You don't trade up for a Guard. Youreally don't want to burn a Round 1 pick on a Guard if you don't have to.

The talent pool for Guard is deep because you have alot of college Tackles who move inside to Guard because they can't handle the outside speed rush in the NFL. Trading up for a Guard would be dumb.

grotonsteel
02-15-2011, 04:27 PM
I would not trade up for an OG.

It all depends what players are available. Some draft suggest Sherrod might be available at 31. I would draft Derrek Sherrod over Mike Pouncey.

Flozell Adams has played far better than Willie Colon ever has. I won't count on Willie Colon to be back.

My OT for 2011 - Starks, Adams, J Scott (backup), Draft pick

Shawn
02-15-2011, 04:41 PM
As much as I like Mike, I have to agree with the previous posters.

steelerkeylargo
02-15-2011, 04:54 PM
I love how a month ago half the people on this board were saying they wouldn't take Pouncey in the first round. Now they are talking about trading up to get him, nice! :shock:

Sugar
02-15-2011, 05:30 PM
Like I've said every time this comes up, Mike only gets picked by the Steelers if he is the BPA when we pick.

No way would I trade up to get him.

birtikidis
02-15-2011, 05:51 PM
it kind of depends on the run of players going in the first. I want Mike to be a Steeler, and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they do move up. but, a few things would have to happen first, as in players coming off the board that we don't expect.
He's worth moving up for though.
oh, and why does everyone count Colon as the guy that is going to help the team so much when he comes back.. did they see our LT situation after Max went down?

feltdizz
02-15-2011, 06:28 PM
I love how a month ago half the people on this board were saying they wouldn't take Pouncey in the first round. Now they are talking about trading up to get him, nice! :shock:

I don't see any evidence of anyone talking about trading up to get him.

StarSpangledSteeler
02-15-2011, 07:58 PM
Well... How much of a trade up?

The Patriots (1.28) and Bears (1.29) both have a fairly strong need at guard. If Pouncey is still there when the Falcons pick 1.27, I would think that would be the spot where a trade up would be a possibility.

According to the trade value charts, that trade should cost us a 1st and 3rd, with the Falcons kicking back a 5th. That sounds expensive. However, if you look at Colbert's record in round 3 it is at least something to consider. Of course, he hit big recently on Wallace and Sanders, but IMO, he whiffed badly on Urbik, Bruce Davis, Anthony Smith, and Willie Reid. And semi-whiffed on Kennan Lewis and Spaeth. In other words, if we're going to cut that player most of the time anyway, what are we really losing?

If you're going to trade up in the first round, he better be a pro-bowler. I believe Mike Pouncey fits the bill. IMO, a 1.31 and 3.31 is not too much to pay for Mankins, Hutchinson, Steinbeck, or Jahri Evans. I think the Pouncey twins would have instant synergy and start from day one. You could kick Kemo to RG which would fill two voids. It will help in both the run game and passing game (making Ben, Rashard, Wallace, Ward, Sanders, Brown, Miller, all more productive).

I think OG is not the same position it was 5 years ago. With the recent premium placed on mammoth pass rushing DT's who can collapse the pocket up the middle, demanding a double team, an OG who can hold his own one-on-one is like gold.

If we draft a 2nd round CB, then DL in the 4th, we're still in decent shape.

birtikidis
02-15-2011, 08:27 PM
Star, that's a good point, with playing Ngata every year and the desire to not have a deceased qb at the end of every season...

papillon
02-15-2011, 08:30 PM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

Dee Dub
02-15-2011, 09:12 PM
I love how a month ago half the people on this board were saying they wouldn't take Pouncey in the first round. Now they are talking about trading up to get him, nice! :shock:

I don't see any evidence of anyone talking about trading up to get him.

Yep me either.

Flasteel
02-15-2011, 10:30 PM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

Interesting how you never mentioned safety? :D

I think that shows position really doesn't matter, you trade up if there is a guy you like and the asking price is at least commensurate with the impact you think that player can have on your team.

I know you're probably focused on the first and second round Pap, but don't forget we traded up to get a punter a few years back. The injuries are complicating things, but I was and am still glad we did it.

For what it's worth...I'm a big Pouncey guy and he's number one on my wish list, but I would have to say no to any deal that involved giving up our 2nd pick to move up and get him. I say we need to target the O-line (particularly guard) and our next starting corner with the first 2 picks. If it gets to pick 29 (which is 40 points higher on the trade value chart) and Pouncey is still there, I would consider giving up my 3rd round pick (worth 45 points) to SD to move up and get him.

I would need to first see where the remaining CBs (and somewhat at other positions) fall on my big board. If there is nobody left who is close to pouncey in value, then I consider the trade. I'd have to also feel out SD and Chicago, but given the Bears O-line problems last year, Pouncey may not get past them.

Wow...how awesome is Kevin Colbert's job!!! :D

RuthlessBurgher
02-15-2011, 11:22 PM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

Interesting how you never mentioned safety? :D

I think that shows position really doesn't matter, you trade up if there is a guy you like and the asking price is at least commensurate with the impact you think that player can have on your team.

I know you're probably focused on the first and second round Pap, but don't forget we traded up to get a punter a few years back. The injuries are complicating things, but I was and am still glad we did it.

For what it's worth...I'm a big Pouncey guy and he's number one on my wish list, but I would have to say no to any deal that involved giving up our 2nd pick to move up and get him. I say we need to target the O-line (particularly guard) and our next starting corner with the first 2 picks. If it gets to pick 29 (which is 40 points higher on the trade value chart) and Pouncey is still there, I would consider giving up my 3rd round pick (worth 45 points) to SD to move up and get him.

I would need to first see where the remaining CBs (and somewhat at other positions) fall on my big board. If there is nobody left who is close to pouncey in value, then I consider the trade. I'd have to also feel out SD and Chicago, but given the Bears O-line problems last year, Pouncey may not get past them.

Wow...how awesome is Kevin Colbert's job!!! :D

Our 4th round pick is worth 45 points. Our 3rd round pick is worth 120.

Flasteel
02-15-2011, 11:54 PM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

Interesting how you never mentioned safety? :D

I think that shows position really doesn't matter, you trade up if there is a guy you like and the asking price is at least commensurate with the impact you think that player can have on your team.

I know you're probably focused on the first and second round Pap, but don't forget we traded up to get a punter a few years back. The injuries are complicating things, but I was and am still glad we did it.

For what it's worth...I'm a big Pouncey guy and he's number one on my wish list, but I would have to say no to any deal that involved giving up our 2nd pick to move up and get him. I say we need to target the O-line (particularly guard) and our next starting corner with the first 2 picks. If it gets to pick 29 (which is 40 points higher on the trade value chart) and Pouncey is still there, I would consider giving up my 3rd round pick (worth 45 points) to SD to move up and get him.

I would need to first see where the remaining CBs (and somewhat at other positions) fall on my big board. If there is nobody left who is close to pouncey in value, then I consider the trade. I'd have to also feel out SD and Chicago, but given the Bears O-line problems last year, Pouncey may not get past them.

Wow...how awesome is Kevin Colbert's job!!! :D

Our 4th round pick is worth 45 points. Our 3rd round pick is worth 120.

Oops :D

papillon
02-16-2011, 12:39 AM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

Interesting how you never mentioned safety? :D

I think that shows position really doesn't matter, you trade up if there is a guy you like and the asking price is at least commensurate with the impact you think that player can have on your team.

I know you're probably focused on the first and second round Pap, but don't forget we traded up to get a punter a few years back. The injuries are complicating things, but I was and am still glad we did it.

For what it's worth...I'm a big Pouncey guy and he's number one on my wish list, but I would have to say no to any deal that involved giving up our 2nd pick to move up and get him. I say we need to target the O-line (particularly guard) and our next starting corner with the first 2 picks. If it gets to pick 29 (which is 40 points higher on the trade value chart) and Pouncey is still there, I would consider giving up my 3rd round pick (worth 45 points) to SD to move up and get him.

I would need to first see where the remaining CBs (and somewhat at other positions) fall on my big board. If there is nobody left who is close to pouncey in value, then I consider the trade. I'd have to also feel out SD and Chicago, but given the Bears O-line problems last year, Pouncey may not get past them.

Wow...how awesome is Kevin Colbert's job!!! :D

Yes, I have safety listed as a position you trade up if there's a player you really like. It's a play making position and is worth the trade up. Check the first line of the post, I put it in red for you. Just sayin... :moon :tt2

The first two rounds are impossible to determine how they will play out, trying to determine what happens after round two is beyond a guess. Plus, the Steelers seem to do their best work in round 1 for sure and round 2 is pretty good, after that it becomes a crap shoot.

Pappy

Flasteel
02-16-2011, 07:36 AM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

Interesting how you never mentioned safety? :D

I think that shows position really doesn't matter, you trade up if there is a guy you like and the asking price is at least commensurate with the impact you think that player can have on your team.

I know you're probably focused on the first and second round Pap, but don't forget we traded up to get a punter a few years back. The injuries are complicating things, but I was and am still glad we did it.

For what it's worth...I'm a big Pouncey guy and he's number one on my wish list, but I would have to say no to any deal that involved giving up our 2nd pick to move up and get him. I say we need to target the O-line (particularly guard) and our next starting corner with the first 2 picks. If it gets to pick 29 (which is 40 points higher on the trade value chart) and Pouncey is still there, I would consider giving up my 3rd round pick (worth 45 points) to SD to move up and get him.

I would need to first see where the remaining CBs (and somewhat at other positions) fall on my big board. If there is nobody left who is close to pouncey in value, then I consider the trade. I'd have to also feel out SD and Chicago, but given the Bears O-line problems last year, Pouncey may not get past them.

Wow...how awesome is Kevin Colbert's job!!! :D

Yes, I have safety listed as a position you trade up if there's a player you really like. It's a play making position and is worth the trade up. Check the first line of the post, I put it in red for you. Just sayin... :moon :tt2

The first two rounds are impossible to determine how they will play out, trying to determine what happens after round two is beyond a guess. Plus, the Steelers seem to do their best work in round 1 for sure and round 2 is pretty good, after that it becomes a crap shoot.

Pappy

I must be coming down with a little ADD. First I type the wrong draft pick I would trade for Pouncey and now I miss your obvious inclusion of safety.

My apologies Pap, but the point still remains. :tt2

Oviedo
02-16-2011, 08:51 AM
You only trade up for play makers: QB, WR, S, CB, OLB (if you run a 3-4), maybe a DT or DE in a 4-3. I doubt teams trade up for RBs any longer with the emphasis on the passing game.

Offensive linemen, defensive linemen in a 3-4, RB, TE you just don't give up draft picks to move up to get, IMO. If a great one falls to you, great, draft him, otherwise, stand pat and follow your draft board.

Pappy

:Agree 1,000,000,000%. You do not give away picks unless you get real difference makers. Especially an organization like the Steelers who build through the draft and don't look to bring in outside free agents. Giving away picks can be crippling.

steelerkeylargo
02-16-2011, 10:44 AM
I love how a month ago half the people on this board were saying they wouldn't take Pouncey in the first round. Now they are talking about trading up to get him, nice! :shock:

I don't see any evidence of anyone talking about trading up to get him.


Whats the name of the thread dizz?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 11:10 AM
If Pouncey is there guy...That is a possibility. It would be nice if a CBA gets done before the draft so we could see what the Steelers do in FA. If they want to give up a 3rd to move up, the could always trade out of the 2nd to pick up another pick.

Where I stand is simple. Assuming nobody retires (there will be some restructuring) and Taylor & Woodley remain. Colon leaves and Adams will start at RT. If they don't sign a capable starting CB oposite Taylor...I wouldn't want them to trade up. If they sign a CB, I don't have a problem with them moving up. If there is no CBA before the draft...I don't want them moving up. Common practice over the years is the Steelers signing there own and getting lower level FAs to fill. The fact that DL signed on for 1 year leads me to believe we might see a CB brought in with starting experience. Don't think it will be that "Hartwig" "Farrior" type of signing at CB. Just my gut feeling. Argue all you want about "not the Steeler way" but that is the feeling I get after the SB loss. With the veterans sticking around and DL coming back for 1 year...I believe the is a strong possibilty we could see this. Of course Bailey or Asomugha would be nice, but I don't think it will be a player of that caliber. In the line of a Marshall, Wright, Houston, B Carr, or S Routt. Somebody to push for the spot opposite Taylor and give a rookie & Butler time to work in slowly in nickel & dime. It is pretty obvious the Steelers need to "flood" the CB position and let the talent sort itself out.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 11:16 AM
I love how a month ago half the people on this board were saying they wouldn't take Pouncey in the first round. Now they are talking about trading up to get him, nice! :shock:

I don't see any evidence of anyone talking about trading up to get him.


Whats the name of the thread dizz?



Actually, I said they might have to trade up and get him on page 2 of my topic.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16169&start=15 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16169&start=15)

Oviedo
02-16-2011, 11:24 AM
If Pouncey is there guy...That is a possibility. It would be nice if a CBA gets done before the draft so we could see what the Steelers do in FA. If they want to give up a 3rd to move up, the could always trade out of the 2nd to pick up another pick.

Where I stand is simple. Assuming nobody retires (there will be some restructuring) and Taylor & Woodley remain. Colon leaves and Adams will start at RT. If they don't sign a capable starting CB oposite Taylor...I wouldn't want them to trade up. If they sign a CB, I don't have a problem with them moving up. If there is no CBA before the draft...I don't want them moving up. Common practice over the years is the Steelers signing there own and getting lower level FAs to fill. The fact that DL signed on for 1 year leads me to believe we might see a CB brought in with starting experience. Don't think it will be that "Hartwig" "Farrior" type of signing at CB. Just my gut feeling. Argue all you want about "not the Steeler way" but that is the feeling I get after the SB loss. With the veterans sticking around and DL coming back for 1 year...I believe the is a strong possibilty we could see this. Of course Bailey or Asomugha would be nice, but I don't think it will be a player of that caliber. In the line of a Marshall, Wright, Houston, B Carr, or S Routt. Somebody to push for the spot opposite Taylor and give a rookie & Butler time to work in slowly in nickel & dime. It is pretty obvious the Steelers need to "flood" the CB position and let the talent sort itself out.

I don't see who on the CB market they could sign who is better than Bmac without breaking the bank. CBs in free agency usually demand premier dollars and Ike taylor will be the onegetting them from the Steelers.

I think they need to solve their CB problem by doing what they did when they drafted Timmons and Woodley. Grab two CB in adjacent rounds at the top of the draft, e.g. 1 & 3 or 2 & 3. Then add to that a mandate to Lebeau to do what he has to in order to get these player on the field and not watching for two years.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-16-2011, 11:36 AM
Would this topic even have come up if his last name was Smith?

He is a good guard, but the team will not be blinded by the fascination of having two brothers playing together. If he is BPA then so be it, but they will not go chasing him.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 11:53 AM
I don't agree with the "just trade up for a play making" position". You trade up for "your guy" or someone who you know is not a miss. I have no problem trading up. If they know Pouncey is their guy for the next 10 years...Do it. They traded up twice in the 1st. Once for Troy and the other for Holmes. Now, you could have mixed feelings on them but I would say they were good choices. They trade up in the second for Statt & Colclough and both were busts. If pieces are in place, I have no problem. There isn't much room on the roster because of last years draft. Imagine in Gibson was still here. Look at the numbers on the roster if nobody retires, players released, and they retain who they want. I think it hinges more on the CBA & FA. The Steelers might not be able to afford giving up a pick if they don't know who is still in place.

Oviedo
02-16-2011, 11:53 AM
Would this topic even have come up if his last name was Smith?

He is a good guard, but the team will not be blinded by the fascination of having two brothers playing together. If he is BPA then so be it, but they will not go chasing him.

:Agree

The Steelers are about getting value and giving away picks rarely helps you.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 12:07 PM
If Pouncey is there guy...That is a possibility. It would be nice if a CBA gets done before the draft so we could see what the Steelers do in FA. If they want to give up a 3rd to move up, the could always trade out of the 2nd to pick up another pick.

Where I stand is simple. Assuming nobody retires (there will be some restructuring) and Taylor & Woodley remain. Colon leaves and Adams will start at RT. If they don't sign a capable starting CB oposite Taylor...I wouldn't want them to trade up. If they sign a CB, I don't have a problem with them moving up. If there is no CBA before the draft...I don't want them moving up. Common practice over the years is the Steelers signing there own and getting lower level FAs to fill. The fact that DL signed on for 1 year leads me to believe we might see a CB brought in with starting experience. Don't think it will be that "Hartwig" "Farrior" type of signing at CB. Just my gut feeling. Argue all you want about "not the Steeler way" but that is the feeling I get after the SB loss. With the veterans sticking around and DL coming back for 1 year...I believe the is a strong possibilty we could see this. Of course Bailey or Asomugha would be nice, but I don't think it will be a player of that caliber. In the line of a Marshall, Wright, Houston, B Carr, or S Routt. Somebody to push for the spot opposite Taylor and give a rookie & Butler time to work in slowly in nickel & dime. It is pretty obvious the Steelers need to "flood" the CB position and let the talent sort itself out.

I don't see who on the CB market they could sign who is better than Bmac without breaking the bank. CBs in free agency usually demand premier dollars and Ike taylor will be the onegetting them from the Steelers.

I think they need to solve their CB problem by doing what they did when they drafted Timmons and Woodley. Grab two CB in adjacent rounds at the top of the draft, e.g. 1 & 3 or 2 & 3. Then add to that a mandate to Lebeau to do what he has to in order to get these player on the field and not watching for two years.

McFadden's contract isn't huge & he isn't a lock. There are CBs out there who would be an upgrade for some more $ and they know their weaness. The Steelers are not the Panthers. They know the value of dollars spent and the win factor with a veteran team. Post season meetings have the word "window" brought up. They have had 2nd-5th round CBs who never see the field or elevate their play to a solid starter. To just say a rookie or young player needs to play right away is easy. They will not risk winning games just to get a young guy on the field. We have seen that and it won't change just because it has to. If the player isn't ready...Won't happen. Pass happy league..Teams needs 3 starting CBs...Steelers have 1. Not going to find 2 more in the draft before opening day with the other needs that have to be addressed in the draft. Sometimes...You just need to overfill the cup to let the floating $hit run out. The time has come.

sentinel33
02-16-2011, 12:13 PM
The way I see it is...

Like earlier post, if Pouncey is the BPA then yes, take him. Absolutely DO NOT trade up for him.

Gotta realize-Mike will get drafted by whatever club and sign the shortest deal possible and then once his rookie contract is up, he will leave and come to the Steelers in the prime of his career. In the meantime we get another stud Guard in round two and look ahead 5 years from now and see- ?,Pouncey,Pouncey,Cannon/Hudson,?. Ben will be 33 and will need this type of protection.

Getting both Pounceys will probably require patience from Steeler fans. Unless he is there at 31 as the BPA.

I for one would rather the team get a couple CBs in the first 3 rounds along with a stud guard in roumd 2.

steelblood
02-16-2011, 12:39 PM
Going To The Super Bowl May Cost Steelers The Draft Pick They Really Want

When preparing a draft strategy, teams put together a Big Board of players they want in the first round. That board is whittled down to players they think they can get. It then becomes a the battle of wants versus needs relative to your draft position.

The player you want may be a Top 10 pick and you pick 22nd. In the Steelers' case, they pick 31st and Mike Pouncey isn't going to last that long.

Given how good his twin brother was in 2010, Pouncey will be getting a lot more interest, and there are plenty of teams ahead of the Steelers who need offensive lineman.

This means if the Steelers want to secure Pouncey's rights, they will have to trade up to get him. If there is any player in the draft worth trading up for relative to the team's needs, Pouncey fits that bill.

If the Steelers are able to acquire Pouncey and install him on the line next to his brother, they will have the most solid offensive line since Ben Roethlisberger joined the team. With Willie Colon coming back next year, that gives the Steelers three core lineman to protect the quarterback Head Coach Mike Tomlin knows he can rely on.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6095 ... ke-pouncey (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/609557-michael-vick-nfl-combine-2011-kevin-kolb-and-tuesdays-top-nfl-news/entry/47755-2011-nfl-draft-will-the-pittsburgh-steelers-trade-up-for-mike-pouncey)

Colon is a UFA. Our money will first go to Wood and Ike. Colon could very well be gone.

I wouldn't trade up for Pouncey.

RuthlessBurgher
02-16-2011, 01:07 PM
Would this topic even have come up if his last name was Smith?

It depends...would that be the brother of Aaron Smith, Marvel Smith, or Anthony Smith? :wink:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 01:13 PM
Would this topic even have come up if his last name was Smith?

He is a good guard, but the team will not be blinded by the fascination of having two brothers playing together. If he is BPA then so be it, but they will not go chasing him.

:Agree

The Steelers are about getting value and giving away picks rarely helps you.

Not all focused at you "O".

Nothing to do with the fasination of "Pouncey Twins". He is the best interior OL in this class and will be in reach for a 3rd. RG is one of our biggest needs and he might be as close to a "lock" at a starter than any OL in the draft. Talk about value. Best rated player at a position who is graded out as a Top 25 player or a #3-#5 CB? Must be me.

Steelers have no problem giving up picks to get that value. Trading up to get a quality player doesn't mean you are "giving away" picks. They have always been a quality not quantity organization. KC makes it clear that if there is a player they like who fits there system...They will go get him if they can.

In 2003 they had 5 picks when they traded up for Troy. 2 starters came out of that draft. The others either never made it to the 53 or made it to the end of their rookie contract. In 2006 they had 9 picks when they traded up for Holmes. 2 starters came out of that draft. The others either never made it to the 53 or made it to the end of their rookie contract. So trading up cost them their value in the rest of the picks? It is a lottery....Crap shoot with some notes.

If you feel like you have a shot at locking in a player who will contribute for 10 years...Do it Because you have less success the further you go down the rounds. The more talented rosters need quality...Not quantity. We are only 2-3 starters away from making a return trip. Adding 7 bench players, inactives, PS players, or camp bodies doesn't help. If you can honestly say that Mike Pouncey has less of a shot to be the starter on opening day than say Harris, Smith, Williams, Moore, Taylor, or (insert name here)...We are watching different teams. You also can't tell me that Mike Pouncey's value would be anything less than any other player picked if they stay put. With all the hit & misses we have seen over the years on picks 2 & 3 and all the surprises on picks 4-7...How much "value" are you really risking?

If Pouncey is there guy and he is within a 3rd to go get him...I have no problem with it. I get a starter from day one for years to come. I personally am more confident in him being a Pro Bowl G than any of the #3-#5 CBs being Pro Bowl guys. #1 interior OL on the board versus the #3-#5 best CB for the costs of a 3rd? Man...I'm too "Old School, Lunch Box, Punch you in the Mouth, Hand in the Dirt, Big Nasty" bias to see the point of passing on the chance to go get the "Boom" instead of sitting on wall and waiting for the "Flash".

RuthlessBurgher
02-16-2011, 01:15 PM
Would this topic even have come up if his last name was Smith?

He is a good guard, but the team will not be blinded by the fascination of having two brothers playing together. If he is BPA then so be it, but they will not go chasing him.

:Agree

The Steelers are about getting value and giving away picks rarely helps you.

We traded up twice in the first round, and in both cases, each team seems to have gotten a more-than-solid player in the first.

In 2003, we got Polamalu (helped us win 2 Super Bowls) and the Chiefs got Larry Johnson (an All-Pro RB before flaming out). The picks we gave up in that trade turned out to be CB Julian Battle (3.92) and QB Brooks Bollinger (6.200). No major loss.

In 2006, we got Holmes (got a Super Bowl MVP before flaming out) and the Giants got Matthias Kiwanuka (helped them win a Super Bowl over the 18-0 Cheetahs). The picks we gave up in that trade turned out to be LB Gerris Wilkinson (3.96) and OT Guy Whimper (4.129). No major loss.

Oviedo
02-16-2011, 01:20 PM
Would this topic even have come up if his last name was Smith?

He is a good guard, but the team will not be blinded by the fascination of having two brothers playing together. If he is BPA then so be it, but they will not go chasing him.

:Agree

The Steelers are about getting value and giving away picks rarely helps you.

We traded up twice in the first round, and in both cases, each team seems to have gotten a more-than-solid player in the first.

In 2003, we got Polamalu (helped us win 2 Super Bowls) and the Chiefs got Larry Johnson (an All-Pro RB before flaming out). The picks we gave up in that trade turned out to be CB Julian Battle (3.92) and QB Brooks Bollinger (6.200). No major loss.

In 2006, we got Holmes (got a Super Bowl MVP before flaming out) and the Giants got Matthias Kiwanuka (helped them win a Super Bowl over the 18-0 Cheetahs). The picks we gave up in that trade turned out to be LB Gerris Wilkinson (3.96) and OT Guy Whimper (4.129). No major loss.

No guarantee the players picked with what we gave up would be what we would pick.

Dealing in hypotheticals you could make the case that if we had kept those ppicks maybe we don't have OL issues because with at least one we take a great OL. Love we got Troy but IMO he was the only trade up that worked. I just think it is bad business.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 03:23 PM
No guarantee the players picked with what we gave up would be what we would pick.

Dealing in hypotheticals you could make the case that if we had kept those ppicks maybe we don't have OL issues because with at least one we take a great OL. Love we got Troy but IMO he was the only trade up that worked. I just think it is bad business.

"Bad Business" = Troy Polamalu & Santonio Holmes? Come on O.

As well as making the case if we kept those picks we wouldn't have OL issues...You can go the other direction. Let's look at the 2008 draft. Of course it is easier to do after some years but just to look back. I like Mendenhall...So this is for observation purposes.

2008 Steelers Draft:
1 Rashard Mendenhall
2 Limas Sweed
3 Bruce Davis
4 Tony Hills

2008 1st round trade up:
1 Aqib Talib (1st & 3rd)
2 Ray Rice
4 Anthony Collins (4th, 5th, & 6th)

Of course you would need to find teams to trade with. But maybe we trade up, we don't have OL or CB issues. It works both ways.

Sugar
02-16-2011, 05:01 PM
I would not trade up to get a lineman at this point. I would trade up to get better CB talent. The O-line doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pass Defense.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-16-2011, 05:59 PM
I would not trade up to get a lineman at this point. I would trade up to get better CB talent. The O-line doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pass Defense.

I would pass on trading up for a CB. There is too big of a drop off between Petersen & Amukamara down to Harris, Smith, and Williams. There is no way to get Petersen & Amukamara and the other three are graded outside the Top 25. One will fall. Trading up for a player you like and having a need at this position really pays off. The Steelers moved up for Troy & Holmes because they needed to fill some voids at those positions. When the draft unfolds this way and you have a guy who is in reach you can plug right in immediately...You start making the calls. The Steelers try move up to get the highest rated guy at a position of need within reach. It fills a big need they did not address in the offseason. Troy was the highest rated S which they needed with Flowers leaving. Burress leaves and then El the year after...Steelers desperate for WRs...Move up to take highest rated receiver. The Steelers need a RG and a CB. An immediate void. It is unlikely that the #3-#5 CB picked at #31 will start opening day. There is a chance it could happen for the Steelers but unlikely. However, All indications are that Mike Pouncey would be a "plug & play" guy out of the gate. To use a 3rd to get him is not a big price. If Mike Pouncey clears the Eagles at #23...Start making calls.

Sugar
02-16-2011, 06:33 PM
I would not trade up to get a lineman at this point. I would trade up to get better CB talent. The O-line doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pass Defense.

I would pass on trading up for a CB. There is too big of a drop off between Petersen & Amukamara down to Harris, Smith, and Williams. There is no way to get Petersen & Amukamara and the other three are graded outside the Top 25. One will fall. Trading up for a player you like and having a need at this position really pays off. The Steelers moved up for Troy & Holmes because they needed to fill some voids at those positions. When the draft unfolds this way and you have a guy who is in reach you can plug right in immediately...You start making the calls. The Steelers try move up to get the highest rated guy at a position of need within reach. It fills a big need they did not address in the offseason. Troy was the highest rated S which they needed with Flowers leaving. Burress leaves and then El the year after...Steelers desperate for WRs...Move up to take highest rated receiver. The Steelers need a RG and a CB. An immediate void. It is unlikely that the #3-#5 CB picked at #31 will start opening day. There is a chance it could happen for the Steelers but unlikely. However, All indications are that Mike Pouncey would be a "plug & play" guy out of the gate. To use a 3rd to get him is not a big price. If Mike Pouncey clears the Eagles at #23...Start making calls.

I don't think the RG is a big enough need to reach for. If he falls to us? Sure. If there were a CB worth reaching for I'd do that becuase of the level of need. Other than that, BPA all the way.

papillon
02-16-2011, 10:39 PM
I would not trade up to get a lineman at this point. I would trade up to get better CB talent. The O-line doesn't bother me nearly as much as the pass Defense.

I would pass on trading up for a CB. There is too big of a drop off between Petersen & Amukamara down to Harris, Smith, and Williams. There is no way to get Petersen & Amukamara and the other three are graded outside the Top 25. One will fall. Trading up for a player you like and having a need at this position really pays off. The Steelers moved up for Troy & Holmes because they needed to fill some voids at those positions. When the draft unfolds this way and you have a guy who is in reach you can plug right in immediately...You start making the calls. The Steelers try move up to get the highest rated guy at a position of need within reach. It fills a big need they did not address in the offseason. Troy was the highest rated S which they needed with Flowers leaving. Burress leaves and then El the year after...Steelers desperate for WRs...Move up to take highest rated receiver. The Steelers need a RG and a CB. An immediate void. It is unlikely that the #3-#5 CB picked at #31 will start opening day. There is a chance it could happen for the Steelers but unlikely. However, All indications are that Mike Pouncey would be a "plug & play" guy out of the gate. To use a 3rd to get him is not a big price. If Mike Pouncey clears the Eagles at #23...Start making calls.

I don't think the RG is a big enough need to reach for. If he falls to us? Sure. If there were a CB worth reaching for I'd do that becuase of the level of need. Other than that, BPA all the way.

I have to agree with Sugar on this one. A guard/center isn't a big enough play maker to move up in the draft. If he falls to 1.31, jump on him like a Tiger on red meat. If he's off the board, oh well, draft the BPA that isn't a QB, RB or TE.

Pappy

Sugar
02-16-2011, 10:58 PM
IDK about not drafting a TE even as BPA. Spaeth is a free agent and if there were a top level guy at 1.31 then why not?

papillon
02-16-2011, 11:20 PM
IDK about not drafting a TE even as BPA. Spaeth is a free agent and if there were a top level guy at 1.31 then why not?

I think a backup TE can be had in free agency or in later rounds. Since, Heath is still in his prime and having two #1 TEs would seem like over kill. That's why QB, RB and Te to me are off limits at 1.31.

Now, if the Steelers have a TE rated as the BPA when they get to 2.62 then take him.

Pappy

hawaiiansteel
02-17-2011, 12:57 AM
Mike Pouncey Preparing to Go See -- and Then Join -- His Brother Maurkice

By Jim Henry
Senior College Sports Writer

http://www.blogcdn.com/ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/media/2011/02/mikepouncey200.jpg

Mike Pouncey figures he talks by telephone to identical twin brother Maurkice four to five times a day. That hasn't changed this week, even if Mike has been in Orlando training in preparation for the NFL Combine later this month, while Maurkice has been a big story at the Super Bowl in Texas.

The Pounceys were inseparable since birth before they made separate --and very different -- decisions last season. Maurkice, who won the Rimington Award as the nation's top center as a junior, announced he was leaving the University of Florida early for the NFL. Mike, however, announced he planned to remain UF for his senior season.

Mike says both made the correct decision.

"I am glad I stayed because it really helped me all around," Mike said.

While Mike struggled with the shotgun snap in 2010 as he moved from guard to center to replace Maurkice, many believe Mike might have the best instincts of any of the offensive linemen in the draft. He's big (6-foot-5, 308 pounds), strong and versatile. NFL pundits have said he could be a Top 15 pick.

"You never know where you are going to play until you get to (NFL) camp, but I honestly hope I get the chance to play tackle at the next level because I feel I am athletic enough," Pouncey said. "When Maurkice went in (at Pittsburgh), he started at right guard before they moved him to center. I am just looking forward to the opportunity."

There are also whispers the Steelers, who are looking to rebuild their offensive line, win or lose Sunday, have their eyes on Mike Pouncey and are wondering if they're going to have to trade up in the first round to select him. (They drafted Maurkice with the 18th pick overall in 2010).

"He is a heck of a player," Maurkice Pouncey said at Super Bowl Media Day earlier this week. "If teams don't see that on film, then I don't know what they are looking at."

Tom Shaw, a renowned speed and conditioning coach who is training Pouncey and others at Walt Disney's Wide World of Sports Complex in Orlando, certainly expects Mike to make a bigger splash than his twin brother at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. Maurkice also trained with Shaw last year.

"This kid is going to jump higher, run faster, show more agility and explosiveness," Shaw told FanHouse. "Mike already has a blueprint to follow in the NFL in his brother. I am telling you, Mike doesn't slow down either. He wants to be the best. He wants to go higher in the draft than his brother."

Shaw understands about performing at the highest level. He has three Super Bowl rings from his days working with quarterback Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. And Shaw also was among the first to offer athletes a combine-specific training program.

Shaw has earned players' confidence through drills and exercises that emphasize his SPARQ philosophy: Speed, Power, Agility, Reaction and Quickness. Mike Pouncey's a believer.

"Oh, man I couldn't even walk that first week," said Pouncey, who has been with Shaw just under a month and trains six days a week. "He threw us right into the fire that first week. But my body has changed a lot. I am getting stronger and faster. In college, it's all about being football ready. Here we are concentrating on specific combine drills. Everyone is getting after it."

Pouncey, of course, keeps an eye on his beloved Gators, too. He wasn't surprised by former coach Urban Meyer's decision to join ESPN as a collegiate analyst. Pouncey also believes UF's football program is in good hands under Will Muschamp.

"I knew coach Meyer wasn't just going to be able to sit around the house," Pouncey said. "I am glad he's doing something. And I think coach (Muschamp) is going to do a phenomenal job. I liked him a lot. They say first impressions are everlasting, and he made a good one with me."

While Pouncey can't wait to get to Dallas to see and talk with Maurkice and watch the Super Bowl, he knows he can't enjoy himself too much. Not with two training sessions scheduled for Monday upon his return.

"No way coach (Shaw) is going to take it easy on me," Mike said.

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2011/0 ... s-brother/ (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2011/02/04/mike-pouncey-preparing-to-go-see-and-then-join-his-brother/)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 10:30 AM
I don't think the RG is a big enough need to reach for. If he falls to us? Sure. If there were a CB worth reaching for I'd do that becuase of the level of need. Other than that, BPA all the way.

You aren't going to get up to get Petersen or Amukamara without giving up picks this year and a 1st next year. The next three rated CBs are outside the Top 25 and rated close. So you are ok with reaching on a #3-#5 CB based on need who "isn't a sure thing" that he will start opening day or even become a starter. That makes alot of sense. Biggest need is RG & CB. STeelers could be in a position to give up a 3rd to go get a "sure thing" top rated interior OL in the draft he will start opening day and for a decade if he stays healthy. The investment is obvious to the FO.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 11:00 AM
I have to agree with Sugar on this one. A guard/center isn't a big enough play maker to move up in the draft. If he falls to 1.31, jump on him like a Tiger on red meat. If he's off the board, oh well, draft the BPA that isn't a QB, RB or TE.

Pappy

Nice to see that everyone considers a "playmaker" by the guy who comes up with points and makes "splash plays". Does anyone think Pouncey's presents did anything to the OL & offense? Does anyone watch anything besides the ball during the game? I'll tell you what. If anyone can say the Pouncey wasn't a difference maker...Put some film on with Hartwig at C. Even watch the SB with Legursky. See how many times that Hartwig didn't get to the 2nd level off a rub block to block an ILB when we ran. Late on the play or off his feet or driven past his lane. Legursky filled in for Pouncey well but his 2nd level blocks, when he got there, where pop & go. Didn't get there fast enough to have the contain angle and was chasing the LB to the play. Playmaker=Maurkice Pouncey. Playmaker #2=Mike Pouncey. Sure thing...Starter opening day at one of the Steelers biggest needs...RG. Mike Pouncey at RG will take away the handing on the run game and hold the front of the pocket in the pass pro. Playmaker? He is the only "Playmaker" "Difference Maker" in reach for the Steelers at a position of need. When the Steelers where in the same situation going into the draft with a need at a postion and a player was in reach...They traded up to get the highest rated S & first S off the board in Troy. The other was when they traded up to get the highest rated WR and first one off the board in Santonio. If he gets bye the Eagles...I have a strong feeling the phone calls will be made.

Just want to ask some of you. Of course it is something you can't really put much weight on. But if the Steelers were at #31 last year and gave up a 3rd to get Pouncey and we fast forward to today...Would any of you be here complaining about it? Eliminate giving up Sanders because I'm trying to talk about this year and you won't miss what you don't have and my purpose is caliber of player you trade up for.

Just some FYI. List of 3rds since 2000. Anyone want to consider giving some of these guys back?

Kraig Urbik
Kennan Lewis
Bruce Davis
Matt Spaeth
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Trai Essex
Kendrick Clany
Hank Poteat
Amos Zeroue

Wouldn't trade these guys in:
Chris Hope
Max Starks
Mike Wallace
Manny Sanders

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2011, 11:13 AM
IDK about not drafting a TE even as BPA. Spaeth is a free agent and if there were a top level guy at 1.31 then why not?

We have much more important needs than a #2 TE. The guy you reference doesn't appear to be in this draft anyway. The top-rated TE at this point in Notre Dame's Kyle Rudolph, and he appears to be a mid-2nd-round type of guy, not a value pick at the end of the first round.

RuthlessBurgher
02-17-2011, 11:20 AM
The Pounceys are playmakers. The difference Maurkice made at the pivot this year is unmistakable. A rookie Pro Bowl o-lineman? Enough said. Getting his brother would not only mean instant chemistry from day one, but it would also give us the ability to convert our run game from a predominantly right-handed attack to a balanced attack that keeps the opposing defense off-guard. Although Kemoeatu appears to have rocks between his ears at times, he is effective pulling from left to right and blowing up a LB in the hole, giving Mendenhall room to run. The problem is, with our never-ending string of mediocre RG's in the past several seasons (Foster, Essex, Stapleton, etc.), we did not have a guy who could do the opposite (pull effectively from right to left). Getting Mike Pouncey would give us that ability. It would take a predictable run game, and make it unpredictable once again. Getting him would allow us to make more plays. That's a playmaker.

Oviedo
02-17-2011, 12:05 PM
The Pounceys are playmakers. The difference Maurkice made at the pivot this year is unmistakable. A rookie Pro Bowl o-lineman? Enough said. Getting his brother would not only mean instant chemistry from day one, but it would also give us the ability to convert our run game from a predominantly right-handed attack to a balanced attack that keeps the opposing defense off-guard. Although Kemoeatu appears to have rocks between his ears at times, he is effective pulling from left to right and blowing up a LB in the hole, giving Mendenhall room to run. The problem is, with our never-ending string of mediocre RG's in the past several seasons (Foster, Essex, Stapleton, etc.), we did not have a guy who could do the opposite (pull effectively from right to left). Getting Mike Pouncey would give us that ability. It would take a predictable run game, and make it unpredictable once again. Getting him would allow us to make more plays. That's a playmaker.

I think Pouncey will be gone and I wouldn't burn the picks to trade up.

As my Mock indicates I like Marcus Cannon from TCU. Huge player (6'5" 340lbs) who played OT in college and could start as OG in NFL and has OT potential. He is one of those guys who may not get a Round 1 grade but won't be available when we pick in Round 2.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 12:22 PM
The Pounceys are playmakers. The difference Maurkice made at the pivot this year is unmistakable. A rookie Pro Bowl o-lineman? Enough said. Getting his brother would not only mean instant chemistry from day one, but it would also give us the ability to convert our run game from a predominantly right-handed attack to a balanced attack that keeps the opposing defense off-guard. Although Kemoeatu appears to have rocks between his ears at times, he is effective pulling from left to right and blowing up a LB in the hole, giving Mendenhall room to run. The problem is, with our never-ending string of mediocre RG's in the past several seasons (Foster, Essex, Stapleton, etc.), we did not have a guy who could do the opposite (pull effectively from right to left). Getting Mike Pouncey would give us that ability. It would take a predictable run game, and make it unpredictable once again. Getting him would allow us to make more plays. That's a playmaker.

I think Pouncey will be gone and I wouldn't burn the picks to trade up.

As my Mock indicates I like Marcus Cannon from TCU. Huge player (6'5" 340lbs) who played OT in college and could start as OG in NFL and has OT potential. He is one of those guys who may not get a Round 1 grade but won't be available when we pick in Round 2.

So overdraft a 2nd round OT on need who may have to move to G? Has no pulling ability, struggles in space & 2nd level, and isn't physically dominant for his size. Hmm...You won't trade up and use a 3rd to get an elite player and highest rated at his position but you will use your 1st on a 2nd rounder who may not have a position in the NFL. That's priceless! Is this Tom Danahoe? Lol

Oviedo
02-17-2011, 12:26 PM
The Pounceys are playmakers. The difference Maurkice made at the pivot this year is unmistakable. A rookie Pro Bowl o-lineman? Enough said. Getting his brother would not only mean instant chemistry from day one, but it would also give us the ability to convert our run game from a predominantly right-handed attack to a balanced attack that keeps the opposing defense off-guard. Although Kemoeatu appears to have rocks between his ears at times, he is effective pulling from left to right and blowing up a LB in the hole, giving Mendenhall room to run. The problem is, with our never-ending string of mediocre RG's in the past several seasons (Foster, Essex, Stapleton, etc.), we did not have a guy who could do the opposite (pull effectively from right to left). Getting Mike Pouncey would give us that ability. It would take a predictable run game, and make it unpredictable once again. Getting him would allow us to make more plays. That's a playmaker.

I think Pouncey will be gone and I wouldn't burn the picks to trade up.

As my Mock indicates I like Marcus Cannon from TCU. Huge player (6'5" 340lbs) who played OT in college and could start as OG in NFL and has OT potential. He is one of those guys who may not get a Round 1 grade but won't be available when we pick in Round 2.

So overdraft a 2nd round OT on need who may have to move to G? Has no pulling ability, struggles in space & 2nd level, and isn't physically dominant for his size. Hmm...You won't trade up and use a 3rd to can an elite player and highest rated at his position but you will use your 1st on a 2nd rounder who may not have a position in the NFL. That's priceless! Is this Tom Danahoe?

Cannon is supposedly one of the best athletes on the TCU team. Let's see what he does at the Combine before we characterize him as a immobile block of concrete.

Its not what you get trading up its what you don't get for the pick you lose, especially a value pick like a third rounder. That could be the player that helps on the DL or a depserately needed DB.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 12:53 PM
I
Cannon is supposedly one of the best athletes on the TCU team. Let's see what he does at the Combine before we characterize him as a immobile block of concrete.

Its not what you get trading up its what you don't get for the pick you lose, especially a value pick like a third rounder. That could be the player that helps on the DL or a depserately needed DB.

First, I would be ok with him in the 2nd if we go CB round 1. But your logic of not using a 3rd to get an elite player in Pouncey but staying put to overdraft a 2nd round talent just because we need a G and he may not be there in the 2nd? I'm losing faith in ya O! :wink:

I gave you a list of those "value picks" you covet. It is over a 2 to 1 margin of busts or underachievers in the 3rd for the Steelers since 2000. You don't need a combine to see he struggles with change of direction. Watch some TCU highlights. He struggles with speed on the outside. Struggles to hit his target and stay with him on 2nd level. No real tape on this guy in game to evaluate him pulling and trapping form the G position. We have some Gs like that now in Foster, Essex, and C Scott. Now, maybe coaching and better conditioning can change that but not a 1st rounder. There is a whole hell of alot more to be a productive OL in the NFL. Tony Hills was regarded as one of the best athletes because he came to Texas as one of the Top TEs in the country. He has been active for 4 games in his three year career and more than likely, won't be retained. I'm not totally down on Cannon...But definately not in the 1st from what I have seen.

Oviedo
02-17-2011, 02:14 PM
Sports Illustrated has Pouncey II rated as 48th best prospect. The key is that many do not view him as good as his brother which is why Pouncey I came out last year and Pouncey II didn't. Even thought they are twins they are individuals and the performance of one is not a guarantee on the performance of the other.


48) Michael Pouncey/G/Florida: Though not as gifted as his brother Maukrice, first-round pick of the Steelers last April, Michael is still legitimate starting material in the NFL.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... z1EF0lHJjO (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/02/16/2011-nfl-draft-prospects/index.html#ixzz1EF0lHJjO)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 03:26 PM
Sports Illustrated has Pouncey II rated as 48th best prospect. The key is that many do not view him as good as his brother which is why Pouncey I came out last year and Pouncey II didn't. Even thought they are twins they are individuals and the performance of one is not a guarantee on the performance of the other.


48) Michael Pouncey/G/Florida: Though not as gifted as his brother Maukrice, first-round pick of the Steelers last April, Michael is still legitimate starting material in the NFL.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/f ... z1EF0lHJjO (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/02/16/2011-nfl-draft-prospects/index.html#ixzz1EF0lHJjO)

Nobody said he was as good as his brother. Mayock has him as the Top Interior OL. Mayock also said before this is all said and done...He could be in his Top 25. If he played in the Senior Bowl...He would have been. Even with Watkins performance at Senior Bowl...Still had Pouncey higher. SI has Watkins higher and there is no way he will go ahead of Pouncey just because of his age. Did you also notice that you 1st round pick Cannon wasn't on that list? Why didn't you mention that?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 03:29 PM
I don't like Bucky Brooks but he has Pouncey at #18 already.




http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d81dd9 ... 5d81dd983e (http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d81dd9596#id:09000d5d81dd983e)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 03:39 PM
CBS has Pouncey at #32

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/pros ... s/TSX/2011 (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 03:42 PM
And here's Mayock by position:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... r-position (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dd8ff0/article/underclassmen-prevalent-among-top-five-per-position)


And if you analize this list...Mayock already has him in the Top 25.

Oviedo
02-17-2011, 03:50 PM
And here's Mayock by position:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... r-position (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dd8ff0/article/underclassmen-prevalent-among-top-five-per-position)


And if you analize this list...Mayock already has him in the Top 25.

If he really is top 25 and the league views him that way all the discussion is moot because he will be gone and we won't draft him.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 03:59 PM
And here's Mayock by position:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... r-position (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dd8ff0/article/underclassmen-prevalent-among-top-five-per-position)


And if you analize this list...Mayock already has him in the Top 25.

If he really is top 25 and the league views him that way all the discussion is moot because he will be gone and we won't draft him.

But our 1st & 3rd can get you to #25 and add a 5th...maybe #24. So that was the discussion. So he is in reach if we want him. You don't think he is worth a 3rd to get him...I do. Seems alot of us share both of our opinions. We have only two months to get the answer...Yuck!

Oviedo
02-17-2011, 04:34 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":1d5ntizh]And here's Mayock by position:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... r-position (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dd8ff0/article/underclassmen-prevalent-among-top-five-per-position)


And if you analize this list...Mayock already has him in the Top 25.

If he really is top 25 and the league views him that way all the discussion is moot because he will be gone and we won't draft him.

But our 1st & 3rd can get you to #25 and add a 5th...maybe #24. So that was the discussion. So he is in reach if we want him. You don't think he is worth a 3rd to get him...I do. Seems alot of us share both of our opinions. We have only two months to get the answer...Yuck![/quote:1d5ntizh]

I would not make that trade but they don't ask me. I think 3rd Round picks have value, see Wallace and Sanders.

Let me put it this way. Last year we used a Round 1 pick on Pouncey I and he proved to be a Pro Bowl player. Now some are suggesting we use a Round 1 AND Round 3 on Pouncey II who by all accounts is not as good or dominant a player as his brother.

Does that make sense in anyone's world? You use one pick for a Pro Bowl player and two picks for someone who is evaluated as having less ability. Duh :roll:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-17-2011, 05:12 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":ekol0s72]And here's Mayock by position:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... r-position (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81dd8ff0/article/underclassmen-prevalent-among-top-five-per-position)


And if you analize this list...Mayock already has him in the Top 25.

If he really is top 25 and the league views him that way all the discussion is moot because he will be gone and we won't draft him.

But our 1st & 3rd can get you to #25 and add a 5th...maybe #24. So that was the discussion. So he is in reach if we want him. You don't think he is worth a 3rd to get him...I do. Seems alot of us share both of our opinions. We have only two months to get the answer...Yuck!

I would not make that trade but they don't ask me. I think 3rd Round picks have value, see Wallace and Sanders.

Let me put it this way. Last year we used a Round 1 pick on Pouncey I and he proved to be a Pro Bowl player. Now some are suggesting we use a Round 1 AND Round 3 on Pouncey II who by all accounts is not as good or dominant a player as his brother.

Does that make sense in anyone's world? You use one pick for a Pro Bowl player and two picks for someone who is evaluated as having less ability. Duh :roll:[/quote:ekol0s72]


Yeah, but for every Wallace & Sanders I could give 2.5 3rd rounders that were busts or disappointments. So odds are since 2000 no very good. 4 end up being starters while 10 end up unemployed or bench warmers.

Kraig Urbik
Kennan Lewis
Bruce Davis
Matt Spaeth
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Trai Essex
Kendrick Clany
Hank Poteat
Amos Zeroue

Wouldn't trade these guys in:
Chris Hope
Max Starks
Mike Wallace
Manny Sanders

I know you aren't that dumb O to use that logic. You are a bright guy. Last year we picked 18th and this year 31st. The drop off in talent in the 1st is high...That's obvious. To say we sat at #18 and got a rookie Pro Bowl center and compare that to Using our 1st & 3rd to move up from #31 to #25 to get a player who is not as good as the player we got at #18 has no merrit.

Listen, we have different opinions...So be it. Steelers need a starting RG and the best RG in the draft might require a 1st & 3rd to get him. He will be on the field as the starter day 1. We need another starting CB. We could possibly get the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best CB in the draft if we sit and wait to pick at #31. However, chances are he won't be starting until mid-season if at all. More than likely, he will be the nickel back in 2011. Stranger things have happened...He could start. Hope he isn't a bust! But this is a 1st rounder and there could be a sure thing at a position of need right in front of you if you pick up the phone. One thing that could happen is the top 5 CBs are gone, all the OT are gone, Taylor is gone, Pouncey is gone, and we can't trade back. BPA I'm sure another WR or RB will come in handy in 2011. That's my feeling.

birtikidis
02-17-2011, 06:39 PM
as a center Mike Pouncey wouldn't be worth a 1st round pick. As a guard he is. Trading up for him would not be a mistake.
drafting a tackle to play guard would be. even if in the 2nd.

grotonsteel
02-17-2011, 06:40 PM
Listen, we have different opinions...So be it. Steelers need a starting RG and the best RG in the draft might require a 1st & 3rd to get him. He will be on the field as the starter day 1. We need another starting CB. We could possibly get the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best CB in the draft if we sit and wait to pick at #31. However, chances are he won't be starting until mid-season if at all. More than likely, he will be the nickel back in 2011. Stranger things have happened...He could start. Hope he isn't a bust! But this is a 1st rounder and there could be a sure thing at a position of need right in front of you if you pick up the phone. One thing that could happen is the top 5 CBs are gone, all the OT are gone, Taylor is gone, Pouncey is gone, and we can't trade back. BPA I'm sure another WR or RB will come in handy in 2011. That's my feeling.

Do Steelers really need a starting RG so bad?? I don't think Ramon Foster was the worst starting O-lineman for Steelers. Team has more pressing needs than a RG.

Now if Pouncey can replace Kemo day 1 i am all for trading up. But you don't trade up for a pure RG no matter what especially for a position which could be easily filled by 3-4th Rd draft pick.You don't trade picks when picks are premium. Steelers have too many needs. If Pouncey is the BPA at 31 draft him but don't trade up for a RG. I have not seen any team trade up to draft a pure RG.

Steelers need an upgrade over BMac, William Gay, Anthony Madison and keenan Lewis if they want to win SB again. Either they do it through FA or draft a Rd 1-2-3 pick. There is no one in the team who can take place for these mediocre DBs.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 12:57 AM
Do Steelers really need a starting RG so bad?? I don't think Ramon Foster was the worst starting O-lineman for Steelers. Team has more pressing needs than a RG.

Now if Pouncey can replace Kemo day 1 i am all for trading up. But you don't trade up for a pure RG no matter what especially for a position which could be easily filled by 3-4th Rd draft pick.You don't trade picks when picks are premium. Steelers have too many needs. If Pouncey is the BPA at 31 draft him but don't trade up for a RG. I have not seen any team trade up to draft a pure RG.

Steelers need an upgrade over BMac, William Gay, Anthony Madison and keenan Lewis if they want to win SB again. Either they do it through FA or draft a Rd 1-2-3 pick. There is no one in the team who can take place for these mediocre DBs.

RG is as big a need as CB. Foster was simply serviceable. If you can watch a football game and understand what is going on when the offense is on the field...You know the Steelers are hurting not having a RG who is capable of pulling, capable of getting to the 2nd level against a 3-4, and capable of getting to a defender in space. The Steelers are a right handed offense and some of you show you are incapable of understanding what that does to a DC game plan week in and week out. That RG is not on this team.

What are these prssing needs? RG & CB are the pressing needs for 2011. Real simple.

Kemo is one of the reasons this team has the success in the run game. Mental lapse & bone head plays aside...He is a complete G. Hate him all you want..The guy can pull and get to thesecond level. Kemo isn't going anywhere.

"Picks are premium" Were you screaming that when the traded up for Troy & Santonio? Read back through the posts. Steelers are n the same situation they were when they moved up for them. The premium on this "RG" is as big as an OT. We are not trading up for a punter. Talking about trading up at the highest rated guy at his position. A complete OL....An athlete...A football player...A difference maker on the OL just like his brother.

We have seen how well your "easily filled 3rd & 4th round picks" have gone. Look at the wonderful list of 3rd rounders I posted since 2000. For every starter you get 3 busts. Yep...Save our 3rd and take the #3-#5 rated CB who could be a bust, or a nickel back, but won't start and help for 2011...And then save that 3rd to take a G who might start in 2 years or play out his rookie contract from the bench. Good plan.

I agree with the upgrade at CB. I want to bring in that 2nd tier FA and draft a CB in Rd2. Lewis, Butler, & Warren are still in process. We don't know what we have. We know what we have in McFadden, Gay, & Madison so we could move in.

Be honest. Last year was a unique draft. Give credit that almost all of them made the team. But this team just lost the SB and the roster is talented & limited. There will no be a big turnover...It isn't done that way. The ratio of drafted players that start or remain on the team is small. Every year fans want 10 picks to put on the roster with guys in the 6th & 7th starting year one. Reality check. Get a couple starters out of your draft class...Success. Get some rotation guys that could be serviceable over the years.

2010- 8/10 on roster. (Looks there could be 3-4 starters)
2009- 5/9 on roster (2-3 Starters)
2008- 5/7 on roster (1 Starter)
2007- 5/8 on roster (2 Starters-1 ST)
2006- 1/9 on roster (1 Starter) *Holmes would be +1
2005- 4/8 on roster (3 Starters)
2004- 2/8 on roster (2 Starters)

Drafts yield 2-3 starters. Steelers have been dead on since 2000 with their 1st round picks. All have started. 4 of 14 3rd rounders since 2000 turned out or look to be starters. Those kind of numbers...I'm giving up a 3rd to get the closest thing to Faneca this team has had at the G position. Just kicking in a 3rd to move up will seem criminal when you realize in 2011 that for some reason....The entire offense & OL just got better with the addition of a complete RG. I hope the proof to my logic will simply be on the TV in front of all of you when they show BB walking to the LOS from behind and you see Starks, Kemo, Pouncey, Pouncey, Adams written across their backs.

NJ-STEELER
02-18-2011, 03:07 AM
I'M SURE THE RAIDERS AREN'T REGRETTING TAKING THE 5TH CORNER OFF THE BOARD AT #31 IN 2003

papillon
02-18-2011, 07:44 AM
I have to agree with Sugar on this one. A guard/center isn't a big enough play maker to move up in the draft. If he falls to 1.31, jump on him like a Tiger on red meat. If he's off the board, oh well, draft the BPA that isn't a QB, RB or TE.

Pappy

Nice to see that everyone considers a "playmaker" by the guy who comes up with points and makes "splash plays". Does anyone think Pouncey's presents did anything to the OL & offense? Does anyone watch anything besides the ball during the game? I'll tell you what. If anyone can say the Pouncey wasn't a difference maker...Put some film on with Hartwig at C. Even watch the SB with Legursky. See how many times that Hartwig didn't get to the 2nd level off a rub block to block an ILB when we ran. Late on the play or off his feet or driven past his lane. Legursky filled in for Pouncey well but his 2nd level blocks, when he got there, where pop & go. Didn't get there fast enough to have the contain angle and was chasing the LB to the play. Playmaker=Maurkice Pouncey. Playmaker #2=Mike Pouncey. Sure thing...Starter opening day at one of the Steelers biggest needs...RG. Mike Pouncey at RG will take away the handing on the run game and hold the front of the pocket in the pass pro. Playmaker? He is the only "Playmaker" "Difference Maker" in reach for the Steelers at a position of need. When the Steelers where in the same situation going into the draft with a need at a postion and a player was in reach...They traded up to get the highest rated S & first S off the board in Troy. The other was when they traded up to get the highest rated WR and first one off the board in Santonio. If he gets bye the Eagles...I have a strong feeling the phone calls will be made.

Just want to ask some of you. Of course it is something you can't really put much weight on. But if the Steelers were at #31 last year and gave up a 3rd to get Pouncey and we fast forward to today...Would any of you be here complaining about it? Eliminate giving up Sanders because I'm trying to talk about this year and you won't miss what you don't have and my purpose is caliber of player you trade up for.

Just some FYI. List of 3rds since 2000. Anyone want to consider giving some of these guys back?

Kraig Urbik
Kennan Lewis
Bruce Davis
Matt Spaeth
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Trai Essex
Kendrick Clany
Hank Poteat
Amos Zeroue

Wouldn't trade these guys in:
Chris Hope
Max Starks
Mike Wallace
Manny Sanders

An offensive line is a difference maker, but they are not play makers. A good to great offensive lineman is measured over the course of an entire game. When you have a difference maker on the offensive line you run behind him on 3rd and short, you can run different types of pass patterns than you can when a guy isn't up to the line in pass protection and you have confidence that he won't cost you yards with penalties due to a lack of focus. In other words you get a guy like Maurkice Pouncey or Max Starks.

A play maker is a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play, Ben (almost any game he's played in), Troy (Ravens AFCCG, Ravens playoff game this year and others), Rashard (Atlanta this year), Mike (He really hasn't yet, but it will happen).

An offensive lineman isn't this person and never will be. It's always a crap shoot drafting high in the draft. I should preface my "Only move up for a play maker" statement as my opinion. In my opinion, certain positions lend themselves to being made better by a good coach and offensive line and defensive line are two of them in my opinion. I think Kugler and Mitchell have proven that. Someone like Wallace, Ben, Troy or Rashard come with the gifts, speed, the big arm, quickness, pocket presence, etc that are necessary to be successful at their positions.

An offensive line and defensive line have to work together, move together, read the defense together, hold contain together, maintain discipline and that's what a coach can do to make average players look better than they are, see Sean Kugler this year.

In the end, even though Pouncey is being rated highly I wouldn't move up in the draft to get him. He'd be a great fit for the Steelers, but not worth a third round pick, IMO. I wouldn't be disappointed if they pulled the trigger and moved up and took Pouncey, if it were me and I readily admit I'm not a GM, coach or even stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, I wouldn't move up for a middle first round lineman.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 08:43 AM
An offensive line is a difference maker, but they are not play makers. A good to great offensive lineman is measured over the course of an entire game. When you have a difference maker on the offensive line you run behind him on 3rd and short, you can run different types of pass patterns than you can when a guy isn't up to the line in pass protection and you have confidence that he won't cost you yards with penalties due to a lack of focus. In other words you get a guy like Maurkice Pouncey or Max Starks.

A play maker is a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play, Ben (almost any game he's played in), Troy (Ravens AFCCG, Ravens playoff game this year and others), Rashard (Atlanta this year), Mike (He really hasn't yet, but it will happen).

An offensive lineman isn't this person and never will be. It's always a crap shoot drafting high in the draft. I should preface my "Only move up for a play maker" statement as my opinion. In my opinion, certain positions lend themselves to being made better by a good coach and offensive line and defensive line are two of them in my opinion. I think Kugler and Mitchell have proven that. Someone like Wallace, Ben, Troy or Rashard come with the gifts, speed, the big arm, quickness, pocket presence, etc that are necessary to be successful at their positions.

An offensive line and defensive line have to work together, move together, read the defense together, hold contain together, maintain discipline and that's what a coach can do to make average players look better than they are, see Sean Kugler this year.

In the end, even though Pouncey is being rated highly I wouldn't move up in the draft to get him. He'd be a great fit for the Steelers, but not worth a third round pick, IMO. I wouldn't be disappointed if they pulled the trigger and moved up and took Pouncey, if it were me and I readily admit I'm not a GM, coach or even stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, I wouldn't move up for a middle first round lineman.

Pappy

You are preaching to the choir Pap. You don't have to explain the difference between play maker, game changer, difference maker. An OL can change the season...The team succes over the years. Far better being a difference maker than a play maker. Wallace is a play maker...Can be negated. BB is a playmaker...Can be negated. Troy...The same. Everyone is tied up in flash and splash and doesn't understand the "X's & O's" that make it all work. Pouncey is worth the 3rd. Hands down. We need a RG and that is where he played most of his career but last year. However, Pouncey might be able to play all interior spots on the OL and has the ability to play OT. His skillset is best utilized at G. Not uncommon for a team to move up for an OL. "An offensive lineman isn't this person and never will be." Well Pap, just last year Maurkice Pouncey showed you what a difference maker he could be from the C position....So throw that out the window.

Oviedo
02-18-2011, 08:50 AM
I have to agree with Sugar on this one. A guard/center isn't a big enough play maker to move up in the draft. If he falls to 1.31, jump on him like a Tiger on red meat. If he's off the board, oh well, draft the BPA that isn't a QB, RB or TE.

Pappy

Nice to see that everyone considers a "playmaker" by the guy who comes up with points and makes "splash plays". Does anyone think Pouncey's presents did anything to the OL & offense? Does anyone watch anything besides the ball during the game? I'll tell you what. If anyone can say the Pouncey wasn't a difference maker...Put some film on with Hartwig at C. Even watch the SB with Legursky. See how many times that Hartwig didn't get to the 2nd level off a rub block to block an ILB when we ran. Late on the play or off his feet or driven past his lane. Legursky filled in for Pouncey well but his 2nd level blocks, when he got there, where pop & go. Didn't get there fast enough to have the contain angle and was chasing the LB to the play. Playmaker=Maurkice Pouncey. Playmaker #2=Mike Pouncey. Sure thing...Starter opening day at one of the Steelers biggest needs...RG. Mike Pouncey at RG will take away the handing on the run game and hold the front of the pocket in the pass pro. Playmaker? He is the only "Playmaker" "Difference Maker" in reach for the Steelers at a position of need. When the Steelers where in the same situation going into the draft with a need at a postion and a player was in reach...They traded up to get the highest rated S & first S off the board in Troy. The other was when they traded up to get the highest rated WR and first one off the board in Santonio. If he gets bye the Eagles...I have a strong feeling the phone calls will be made.

Just want to ask some of you. Of course it is something you can't really put much weight on. But if the Steelers were at #31 last year and gave up a 3rd to get Pouncey and we fast forward to today...Would any of you be here complaining about it? Eliminate giving up Sanders because I'm trying to talk about this year and you won't miss what you don't have and my purpose is caliber of player you trade up for.

Just some FYI. List of 3rds since 2000. Anyone want to consider giving some of these guys back?

Kraig Urbik
Kennan Lewis
Bruce Davis
Matt Spaeth
Anthony Smith
Willie Reid
Trai Essex
Kendrick Clany
Hank Poteat
Amos Zeroue

Wouldn't trade these guys in:
Chris Hope
Max Starks
Mike Wallace
Manny Sanders

An offensive line is a difference maker, but they are not play makers. A good to great offensive lineman is measured over the course of an entire game. When you have a difference maker on the offensive line you run behind him on 3rd and short, you can run different types of pass patterns than you can when a guy isn't up to the line in pass protection and you have confidence that he won't cost you yards with penalties due to a lack of focus. In other words you get a guy like Maurkice Pouncey or Max Starks.

A play maker is a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play, Ben (almost any game he's played in), Troy (Ravens AFCCG, Ravens playoff game this year and others), Rashard (Atlanta this year), Mike (He really hasn't yet, but it will happen).

An offensive lineman isn't this person and never will be. It's always a crap shoot drafting high in the draft. I should preface my "Only move up for a play maker" statement as my opinion. In my opinion, certain positions lend themselves to being made better by a good coach and offensive line and defensive line are two of them in my opinion. I think Kugler and Mitchell have proven that. Someone like Wallace, Ben, Troy or Rashard come with the gifts, speed, the big arm, quickness, pocket presence, etc that are necessary to be successful at their positions.

An offensive line and defensive line have to work together, move together, read the defense together, hold contain together, maintain discipline and that's what a coach can do to make average players look better than they are, see Sean Kugler this year.

In the end, even though Pouncey is being rated highly I wouldn't move up in the draft to get him. He'd be a great fit for the Steelers, but not worth a third round pick, IMO. I wouldn't be disappointed if they pulled the trigger and moved up and took Pouncey, if it were me and I readily admit I'm not a GM, coach or even stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, I wouldn't move up for a middle first round lineman.

Pappy

Well said. I totally agree. OL and DL are collective efforts. I'd rather keep the extra pick and trust we can add another talented player instead of giving it up to move up to grab an interior lineman.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:00 AM
The Pounceys are playmakers. The difference Maurkice made at the pivot this year is unmistakable. A rookie Pro Bowl o-lineman? Enough said. Getting his brother would not only mean instant chemistry from day one, but it would also give us the ability to convert our run game from a predominantly right-handed attack to a balanced attack that keeps the opposing defense off-guard. Although Kemoeatu appears to have rocks between his ears at times, he is effective pulling from left to right and blowing up a LB in the hole, giving Mendenhall room to run. The problem is, with our never-ending string of mediocre RG's in the past several seasons (Foster, Essex, Stapleton, etc.), we did not have a guy who could do the opposite (pull effectively from right to left). Getting Mike Pouncey would give us that ability. It would take a predictable run game, and make it unpredictable once again. Getting him would allow us to make more plays. That's a playmaker.

There you go. Summed up perfectly!

Oviedo
02-18-2011, 09:06 AM
Scouts.com just released their updated Mock Draft (found on Steel City Insiders site)with Pouncey II going to New England at #33, that would be beginning of Round 2.

They have us taking Aaron Williams, CB at #31 and Orlando Franklin, OT at #62. I have no issues with that if it would turn out that way.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:17 AM
I'M SURE THE RAIDERS AREN'T REGRETTING TAKING THE 5TH CORNER OFF THE BOARD AT #31 IN 2003

Hey look...A voice of reason in CAPS. You do know Nnamdi Asomugha started one game his rookie year and 7 his 2nd year. It wasn't until year 3 he became a fulltime starter. That's 8 out of 32 possible games over his first two season. Yeah...We have that time...We can wait. These vets could stop aging and slowing down until our #31 CB comes around and contributes. Since 2000, CBs picked outside of the Top 25 have started 93 out of a possible 256 games their rookie years. Hmmm...Interesting. I pulled that number from the outside the Top 25 not #31. There are exceptions to the rule...Even as recent as last year. McCourty was chosen @ #27 and started 16 games. Still would need to give up a 3rd to get up there. Wilson & Robinson were picked @ #29 & #32. They started 10 out of a possible 32 games. You can say injuries but the door swings both ways on that. Robinson was injured last year but saw the starting line up because of injury to starters and got injured himself. Bottom line...Pouncey will start opening day. Our CB #31 has a very slim chance of starting opening day..If at all his rookie year. So coming off a SB loss where the team clearly needs a starting RG and a CB...You wouldn't trade up and get at least one piece of that puzzle? I can see why non of us are GM's. :P

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:24 AM
Scouts.com just released their updated Mock Draft (found on Steel City Insiders site)with Pouncey II going to New England at #33, that would be beginning of Round 2.

They have us taking Aaron Williams, CB at #31 and Orlando Franklin, OT at #62. I have no issues with that if it would turn out that way.

Like a posted, there are creditable sources that have Pouncey as a Top 25 talent. These other sites have limited creditability over the years. Just take there mocks and put them up against the actual draft. For some pretty accurate draft info..Here is the list in order.

Mike Mayock
Gil Brandt
Mel Kiper

Mayock & Brandt have been pretty consistant over the last couple years in the first. This isn't my opinion, it is what is published or talked about in the media. And some FYI, Mayock has Pouncey as a Top 25 and Brandt was on Sirius and stated that if Pouncey works out at the combine he sees the same. I don't have ESPN limited acces to see what Kiper thinks.

To you post, I would get a "boner" if Pouncey slipped to us at #31. As far as the creditabilty factor, do you truely in your heart think the Steelers would pass up Pouncey @ #31 for Williams. I'm interested to here you thoughts on that.

Oviedo
02-18-2011, 09:32 AM
Scouts.com just released their updated Mock Draft (found on Steel City Insiders site)with Pouncey II going to New England at #33, that would be beginning of Round 2.

They have us taking Aaron Williams, CB at #31 and Orlando Franklin, OT at #62. I have no issues with that if it would turn out that way.

Like a posted, there are creditable sources that have Pouncey as a Top 25 talent. These other sites have limited creditability over the years. Just take there mocks and put them up against the actual draft. For some pretty accurate draft info..Here is the list in order.

Mike Mayock
Gil Brandt
Mel Kiper

Mayock & Brandt have been pretty consistant over the last couple years in the first. This isn't my opinion, it is what is published or talked about in the media. And some FYI, Mayock has Pouncey as a Top 25 and Brandt was on Sirius and stated that if Pouncey works out at the combine he sees the same. I don't have ESPN limited acces to see what Kiper thinks.

To you post, I would get a "boner" if Pouncey slipped to us at #31. As far as the creditabilty factor, do you truely in your heart think the Steelers would pass up Pouncey @ #31 for Williams. I'm interested to here you thoughts on that.

If Pouncey II was there at #31 I'd be jumping up and down for them to take him. You and I disagree on giving up a Round 3 pick to get him. I'd even be OK with giving up a Round 4 pick but I just see Round 3 picks as valuable picks.

I like Pouncey II but for the right price. That is where we disagree...the right price.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:35 AM
Scouts.com just released their updated Mock Draft (found on Steel City Insiders site)with Pouncey II going to New England at #33, that would be beginning of Round 2.

They have us taking Aaron Williams, CB at #31 and Orlando Franklin, OT at #62. I have no issues with that if it would turn out that way.

Like a posted, there are creditable sources that have Pouncey as a Top 25 talent. These other sites have limited creditability over the years. Just take there mocks and put them up against the actual draft. For some pretty accurate draft info..Here is the list in order.

Mike Mayock
Gil Brandt
Mel Kiper

Mayock & Brandt have been pretty consistant over the last couple years in the first. This isn't my opinion, it is what is published or talked about in the media. And some FYI, Mayock has Pouncey as a Top 25 and Brandt was on Sirius and stated that if Pouncey works out at the combine he sees the same. I don't have ESPN limited acces to see what Kiper thinks.

To you post, I would get a "boner" if Pouncey slipped to us at #31. As far as the creditabilty factor, do you truely in your heart think the Steelers would pass up Pouncey @ #31 for Williams. I'm interested to here you thoughts on that.

If Pouncey II was there at #31 I'd be jumping up and down for them to take him. You and I disagree on giving up a Round 3 pick to get him. I'd even be OK with giving up a Round 4 pick but I just see Round 3 picks as valuable picks.

I like Pouncey II but for the right price. That is where we disagree...the right price.

I'm cool with your thoughts. I just did some research and Kiper's mock he did yesterday has Pouncey at #25. You have to go to the link below to see it because you have to be a member on ESPN.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6121 ... ck#page/26 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/612151-mel-kipers-2011-nfl-mock-draft-20-a-pick-by-pick-critique-of-latest-mock#page/26)

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:39 AM
Write up on the combine on NFL.com. Calls Mike Pouncey a "Difference Maker". Of course...It is Bucky!

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09000d ... ule=HP_cp2 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09000d5d81e5c420/article/teams-in-need-of-topflight-blockers-will-find-talent-in-indy?module=HP_cp2)

Oviedo
02-18-2011, 09:43 AM
[quote=Oviedo]Scouts.com just released their updated Mock Draft (found on Steel City Insiders site)with Pouncey II going to New England at #33, that would be beginning of Round 2.

They have us taking Aaron Williams, CB at #31 and Orlando Franklin, OT at #62. I have no issues with that if it would turn out that way.

Like a posted, there are creditable sources that have Pouncey as a Top 25 talent. These other sites have limited creditability over the years. Just take there mocks and put them up against the actual draft. For some pretty accurate draft info..Here is the list in order.

Mike Mayock
Gil Brandt
Mel Kiper

Mayock & Brandt have been pretty consistant over the last couple years in the first. This isn't my opinion, it is what is published or talked about in the media. And some FYI, Mayock has Pouncey as a Top 25 and Brandt was on Sirius and stated that if Pouncey works out at the combine he sees the same. I don't have ESPN limited acces to see what Kiper thinks.

To you post, I would get a "boner" if Pouncey slipped to us at #31. As far as the creditabilty factor, do you truely in your heart think the Steelers would pass up Pouncey @ #31 for Williams. I'm interested to here you thoughts on that.

If Pouncey II was there at #31 I'd be jumping up and down for them to take him. You and I disagree on giving up a Round 3 pick to get him. I'd even be OK with giving up a Round 4 pick but I just see Round 3 picks as valuable picks.

I like Pouncey II but for the right price. That is where we disagree...the right price.

I'm cool with your thoughts. I just did some research and Kiper's mock he did yesterday has Pouncey at #25. You have to go to the link below to see it because you have to be a member on ESPN.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6121 ... ck#page/26 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/612151-mel-kipers-2011-nfl-mock-draft-20-a-pick-by-pick-critique-of-latest-mock#page/26)[/quote:vc6ast7w]

I am a member and saw it.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:52 AM
I am a member and saw it.

Hey...I got a new source for info!!! :wink: How does he have the CB's ranked before combine?

Peterson
Amukamara
Harris
Smith
Williams

Or does he have Smith ahead of Harris? Where does he have Ras-I Dowling ranked and graded 2nd round?

grotonsteel
02-18-2011, 11:14 AM
Do Steelers really need a starting RG so bad?? I don't think Ramon Foster was the worst starting O-lineman for Steelers. Team has more pressing needs than a RG.

Now if Pouncey can replace Kemo day 1 i am all for trading up. But you don't trade up for a pure RG no matter what especially for a position which could be easily filled by 3-4th Rd draft pick.You don't trade picks when picks are premium. Steelers have too many needs. If Pouncey is the BPA at 31 draft him but don't trade up for a RG. I have not seen any team trade up to draft a pure RG.

Steelers need an upgrade over BMac, William Gay, Anthony Madison and keenan Lewis if they want to win SB again. Either they do it through FA or draft a Rd 1-2-3 pick. There is no one in the team who can take place for these mediocre DBs.

RG is as big a need as CB. Foster was simply serviceable. If you can watch a football game and understand what is going on when the offense is on the field...You know the Steelers are hurting not having a RG who is capable of pulling, capable of getting to the 2nd level against a 3-4, and capable of getting to a defender in space. The Steelers are a right handed offense and some of you show you are incapable of understanding what that does to a DC game plan week in and week out. That RG is not on this team.

What are these prssing needs? RG & CB are the pressing needs for 2011. Real simple.

Kemo is one of the reasons this team has the success in the run game. Mental lapse & bone head plays aside...He is a complete G. Hate him all you want..The guy can pull and get to thesecond level. Kemo isn't going anywhere.

"Picks are premium" Were you screaming that when the traded up for Troy & Santonio? Read back through the posts. Steelers are n the same situation they were when they moved up for them. The premium on this "RG" is as big as an OT. We are not trading up for a punter. Talking about trading up at the highest rated guy at his position. A complete OL....An athlete...A football player...A difference maker on the OL just like his brother.

We have seen how well your "easily filled 3rd & 4th round picks" have gone. Look at the wonderful list of 3rd rounders I posted since 2000. For every starter you get 3 busts. Yep...Save our 3rd and take the #3-#5 rated CB who could be a bust, or a nickel back, but won't start and help for 2011...And then save that 3rd to take a G who might start in 2 years or play out his rookie contract from the bench. Good plan.

I agree with the upgrade at CB. I want to bring in that 2nd tier FA and draft a CB in Rd2. Lewis, Butler, & Warren are still in process. We don't know what we have. We know what we have in McFadden, Gay, & Madison so we could move in.

Be honest. Last year was a unique draft. Give credit that almost all of them made the team. But this team just lost the SB and the roster is talented & limited. There will no be a big turnover...It isn't done that way. The ratio of drafted players that start or remain on the team is small. Every year fans want 10 picks to put on the roster with guys in the 6th & 7th starting year one. Reality check. Get a couple starters out of your draft class...Success. Get some rotation guys that could be serviceable over the years.

2010- 8/10 on roster. (Looks there could be 3-4 starters)
2009- 5/9 on roster (2-3 Starters)
2008- 5/7 on roster (1 Starter)
2007- 5/8 on roster (2 Starters-1 ST)
2006- 1/9 on roster (1 Starter) *Holmes would be +1
2005- 4/8 on roster (3 Starters)
2004- 2/8 on roster (2 Starters)

Drafts yield 2-3 starters. Steelers have been dead on since 2000 with their 1st round picks. All have started. 4 of 14 3rd rounders since 2000 turned out or look to be starters. Those kind of numbers...I'm giving up a 3rd to get the closest thing to Faneca this team has had at the G position. Just kicking in a 3rd to move up will seem criminal when you realize in 2011 that for some reason....The entire offense & OL just got better with the addition of a complete RG. I hope the proof to my logic will simply be on the TV in front of all of you when they show BB walking to the LOS from behind and you see Starks, Kemo, Pouncey, Pouncey, Adams written across their backs.

Kemo can pull and go to second level but how many blocks he makes while doing that??? Once every game??? More often than not he is blocking no one. Kemo was abused one-on-one. Kemo is pathetic in pass-protection. I am looking for OG/OT who are not road graders but athletic, great pass blockers and have some brains. Maurkice Pouncey is exactly that kind of a C.

J Scott and Kemo were the worst starting O-lineman on Steelers O-line.Well atleast J Scott improved as games went by.

Alan Faneca is a LG. Again if Mike Pouncey can replace a LG i am all for giving up a 3rd rd pick but if Mike Pouncey is a pure RG you don't waste a 3rd pick on him. I am pretty sure Steelers FO will never do that.

How many 3rd Rd draft picks were spent on a pure OG by Steelers. Apart from Kraig Ubrik i would say none.

RuthlessBurgher
02-18-2011, 11:16 AM
An offensive line and defensive line have to work together, move together, read the defense together, hold contain together, maintain discipline and that's what a coach can do to make average players look better than they are, see Sean Kugler this year.

Look how many times you used to the word together here.

Well, Maurkice and Mike have lived together, played Pop Warner together, played in high school together, and played in college together.

So not only would you be getting the guy who is the consensus top interior lineman (and I'd argue the most "sure-thing" of any OL in this draft, including top tackles such as Carimi, Costanzo, Sherrod, Smith, and Solder), but you'd have that instant chemistry of knowing how to work together from day one. That's huge. Mike Pouncey would be worth more to us than any other team because of that.

papillon
02-18-2011, 11:31 AM
An offensive line and defensive line have to work together, move together, read the defense together, hold contain together, maintain discipline and that's what a coach can do to make average players look better than they are, see Sean Kugler this year.

Look how many times you used to the word together here.

Well, Maurkice and Mike have lived together, played Pop Warner together, played in high school together, and played in college together.

So not only would you be getting the guy who is the consensus top interior lineman (and I'd argue the most "sure-thing" of any OL in this draft, including top tackles such as Carimi, Costanzo, Sherrod, Smith, and Solder), but you'd have that instant chemistry of knowing how to work together from day one. That's huge. Mike Pouncey would be worth more to us than any other team because of that.

I still wouldn't move up in the draft for an offensive guard, together with his brother or not. Five men are needed to make a cohesive unit, the better the athletes the better the line, but Kugler proved this year that you can remove your two tackles, replace a center and play musical chairs at guard and be successful. I would rather they diudn't have to do that, but they did and it worked. At 1.31 I'd love for the Steelers to take Pouncey II, it's value and will help fill a need. Giving up a 3rd round pick to put the two brothers "together" I wouldn't do, I believe that Heyward, Pouncey, Harris, or Moore will be available at 1.31 and the Steelers keep their 3rd round pick.

I just don't see that moving up gains the Steelers so much that they have to give up a pick to get it. They are going to get help (potentially) at a position of need with an outstanding football player, we just don't know who.

The Steelers had arguably the best guard in the game and let him walk and have been to the Super Bowl twice. The Steelers do something right with their offensive linemen that other teams don't or can't do; I'm not sure what it is, but they do it. They do not need to give up a pick to get a guard/center/tackle, of course, Pouncey does bring that flexibility that Tomlin loves to the table.

Pappy

Oviedo
02-18-2011, 11:33 AM
An offensive line and defensive line have to work together, move together, read the defense together, hold contain together, maintain discipline and that's what a coach can do to make average players look better than they are, see Sean Kugler this year.

Look how many times you used to the word together here.

Well, Maurkice and Mike have lived together, played Pop Warner together, played in high school together, and played in college together.

So not only would you be getting the guy who is the consensus top interior lineman (and I'd argue the most "sure-thing" of any OL in this draft, including top tackles such as Carimi, Costanzo, Sherrod, Smith, and Solder), but you'd have that instant chemistry of knowing how to work together from day one. That's huge. Mike Pouncey would be worth more to us than any other team because of that.

I still wouldn't move up in the draft for an offensive guard, together with his brother or not. Five men are needed to make a cohesive unit, the better the athletes the better the line, but Kugler proved this year that you can remove your two tackles, replace a center and play musical chairs at guard and be successful. I would rather they diudn't have to do that, but they did and it worked. At 1.31 I'd love for the Steelers to take Pouncey II, it's value and will help fill a need. Giving up a 3rd round pick to put the two brothers "together" I wouldn't do, I believe that Heyward, Pouncey, Harris, or Moore will be available at 1.31 and the Steelers keep their 3rd round pick.

I just don't see that moving up gains the Steelers so much that they have to give up a pick to get it. They are going to get help (potentially) at a position of need with an outstanding football player, we just don't know who.

The Steelers had arguably the best guard in the game and let him walk and have been to the Super Bowl twice. The Steelers do something right with their offensive linemen that other teams don't or can't do; I'm not sure what it is, but they do it. They do not need to give up a pick to get a guard/center/tackle, of course, Pouncey does bring that flexibility that Tomlin loves to the table.

Pappy

Still agreeing with you!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess it is just a "great minds" thing :wink:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 01:06 PM
Kemo can pull and go to second level but how many blocks he makes while doing that??? Once every game??? More often than not he is blocking no one. Kemo was abused one-on-one. Kemo is pathetic in pass-protection. I am looking for OG/OT who are not road graders but athletic, great pass blockers and have some brains. Maurkice Pouncey is exactly that kind of a C.

J Scott and Kemo were the worst starting O-lineman on Steelers O-line.Well atleast J Scott improved as games went by.

Alan Faneca is a LG. Again if Mike Pouncey can replace a LG i am all for giving up a 3rd rd pick but if Mike Pouncey is a pure RG you don't waste a 3rd pick on him. I am pretty sure Steelers FO will never do that.

How many 3rd Rd draft picks were spent on a pure OG by Steelers. Apart from Kraig Ubrik i would say none.

You must not watch many Steelers games. Kemo is very effective pulling for a trap or leading through the hole. He can hit a target in space. He has shown he is the best on the team. I really don't know what you are watching. I can remember over a dozen in teh SB alone. Typical comment of someone watching the ball during a game. Kemo had some bad games...Buffalo the biggest. He also stood out on some plays getting bull rushed. But he was a far cry from the worst OL. Pouncey was the best and honestly I would put Adams 2nd. Kemo was 3rd and a big part of the run games success. There really isn't any argument there.

And what does telling me something I already know in Faneca is a LG have to do with the conversation? We have a capable pulling LG. No RG...proven. Pouncey is anything but just a RG. You must not have watched him play with Maurkice playing next to him in 2009. He can play all interior positions. I would bet he could play RT and after we see the combine kick slide drills...He might be capable of playing LT. He is a baller and a difference maker on the OL.

Urbik was the only pure RG since 2000. Never worked out and might not ever. Essex was a 3rd round OT who was projected inside and he is a back-up. I gave a list of the 10 out of 14 3rd rounders since 2000 who were disappointments. I have no doubt the FO would have no problem using a 3rd to move up and get the highest rated interior lineman who will start day one and for the next 10 years. Again, the success of the Steelers over the years has been knowing when there roster has the talent and approach a draft with the intention of coming out of it with quality and not quantity. This team just went to the SB and just being content to sit where they are so the could come out of this draft with 7 picks is not their concern. Don't be surprised when it happens (If they can find someone to trade with). But don't worry either, by the 2nd or 3rd game you will be saying, "Good move."

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 01:52 PM
I still wouldn't move up in the draft for an offensive guard, together with his brother or not. Five men are needed to make a cohesive unit, the better the athletes the better the line, but Kugler proved this year that you can remove your two tackles, replace a center and play musical chairs at guard and be successful. I would rather they diudn't have to do that, but they did and it worked. At 1.31 I'd love for the Steelers to take Pouncey II, it's value and will help fill a need. Giving up a 3rd round pick to put the two brothers "together" I wouldn't do, I believe that Heyward, Pouncey, Harris, or Moore will be available at 1.31 and the Steelers keep their 3rd round pick.

I just don't see that moving up gains the Steelers so much that they have to give up a pick to get it. They are going to get help (potentially) at a position of need with an outstanding football player, we just don't know who.

The Steelers had arguably the best guard in the game and let him walk and have been to the Super Bowl twice. The Steelers do something right with their offensive linemen that other teams don't or can't do; I'm not sure what it is, but they do it. They do not need to give up a pick to get a guard/center/tackle, of course, Pouncey does bring that flexibility that Tomlin loves to the table.

Pappy
I think you cloud things with the "reunite the twins" thought process. Would you move up for Iuapti if he was in this years draft?

And you said it Pap. "Five men are needed to make a cohesive unit, the better the athletes the better the line" That is reason enough right there. Steelers have 4 and he is arguably the most physically talented OL in this draft. Does that mean you are on board now too? :wink:

I saw nobody in here saying the OL was playing lights out with people going down. All I saw were people, including yourself, saying how bad Scott was, Essex, Kemo, Adams, Foster, but now everyone is Koogs is a miracle worker...We made it to the SB. We can make do...Don't give up a pick to take of the bandaid for the next 10 years and solve the problem.

Just answer me this. Did Pouncey have any impact on the play of the OL and the offense regardless of the fill ins around him? How much of an impact must he have been if the Steelers lost both starting OT and still got production? Steelers returned 19 of 22 starters for 2010 and made it to the SB while they missed the playoffs in 2009. Out with Hartwig, Holmes, & Gay. What position did that impact come if you take into account also losing both starting OT? Is that all Koogs? Hell..He deserves alot of credit for what he did. But did he turn Foster & Scott into starters? I think you under estimate the value of adding an elite OL at a position of need and the overall impact he brings to the offense because he isn't putting up yards or points. The proof was on the field until the 1st quarter of the Jets game. The way this team and roster sits right now and the way this draft looks to unfold....I don't see any other player the merits going up to get to help this team now and longterm. Opportunities like this don't come around when you are winners and pick outside the Top 20 year in and year out.

NJ-STEELER
02-18-2011, 06:11 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":1hzj2exb]I'M SURE THE RAIDERS AREN'T REGRETTING TAKING THE 5TH CORNER OFF THE BOARD AT #31 IN 2003

Hey look...A voice of reason in CAPS. You do know Nnamdi Asomugha started one game his rookie year and 7 his 2nd year. It wasn't until year 3 he became a fulltime starter. That's 8 out of 32 possible games over his first two season. Yeah...We have that time...We can wait. These vets could stop aging and slowing down until our #31 CB comes around and contributes. Since 2000, CBs picked outside of the Top 25 have started 93 out of a possible 256 games their rookie years. Hmmm...Interesting. I pulled that number from the outside the Top 25 not #31. There are exceptions to the rule...Even as recent as last year. McCourty was chosen @ #27 and started 16 games. Still would need to give up a 3rd to get up there. Wilson & Robinson were picked @ #29 & #32. They started 10 out of a possible 32 games. You can say injuries but the door swings both ways on that. Robinson was injured last year but saw the starting line up because of injury to starters and got injured himself. Bottom line...Pouncey will start opening day. Our CB #31 has a very slim chance of starting opening day..If at all his rookie year. So coming off a SB loss where the team clearly needs a starting RG and a CB...You wouldn't trade up and get at least one piece of that puzzle? I can see why non of us are GM's. :P[/quote:1hzj2exb]


the caps weren't for effect. i noticed it was caps as i was about to submit and was too lazy to change it

any whoo. if you dont draft them now, do you want the same problems in the secondary 2-3 years from now?,

look at past pro bowl and all pro rosters. there are many more Guards making it to that level despite being drated later on then there are cornerbacks.

Flasteel
02-18-2011, 07:20 PM
I still wouldn't move up in the draft for an offensive guard, together with his brother or not. Five men are needed to make a cohesive unit, the better the athletes the better the line, but Kugler proved this year that you can remove your two tackles, replace a center and play musical chairs at guard and be successful. I would rather they diudn't have to do that, but they did and it worked. At 1.31 I'd love for the Steelers to take Pouncey II, it's value and will help fill a need. Giving up a 3rd round pick to put the two brothers "together" I wouldn't do, I believe that Heyward, Pouncey, Harris, or Moore will be available at 1.31 and the Steelers keep their 3rd round pick.

I just don't see that moving up gains the Steelers so much that they have to give up a pick to get it. They are going to get help (potentially) at a position of need with an outstanding football player, we just don't know who.

The Steelers had arguably the best guard in the game and let him walk and have been to the Super Bowl twice. The Steelers do something right with their offensive linemen that other teams don't or can't do; I'm not sure what it is, but they do it. They do not need to give up a pick to get a guard/center/tackle, of course, Pouncey does bring that flexibility that Tomlin loves to the table.

Pappy
I think you cloud things with the "reunite the twins" thought process. Would you move up for Iuapti if he was in this years draft?

And you said it Pap. "Five men are needed to make a cohesive unit, the better the athletes the better the line" That is reason enough right there. Steelers have 4 and he is arguably the most physically talented OL in this draft. Does that mean you are on board now too? :wink:

I saw nobody in here saying the OL was playing lights out with people going down. All I saw were people, including yourself, saying how bad Scott was, Essex, Kemo, Adams, Foster, but now everyone is Koogs is a miracle worker...We made it to the SB. We can make do...Don't give up a pick to take of the bandaid for the next 10 years and solve the problem.

Just answer me this. Did Pouncey have any impact on the play of the OL and the offense regardless of the fill ins around him? How much of an impact must he have been if the Steelers lost both starting OT and still got production? Steelers returned 19 of 22 starters for 2010 and made it to the SB while they missed the playoffs in 2009. Out with Hartwig, Holmes, & Gay. What position did that impact come if you take into account also losing both starting OT? Is that all Koogs? Hell..He deserves alot of credit for what he did. But did he turn Foster & Scott into starters? I think you under estimate the value of adding an elite OL at a position of need and the overall impact he brings to the offense because he isn't putting up yards or points. The proof was on the field until the 1st quarter of the Jets game. The way this team and roster sits right now and the way this draft looks to unfold....I don't see any other player the merits going up to get to help this team now and longterm. Opportunities like this don't come around when you are winners and pick outside the Top 20 year in and year out.

:Clap :Clap :Clap
Simply beautiful JPN!

The variables I see are:
1. How high do the Steelers have Pouncey rated?
2. What are we willing to give up?
3. Who is still on the board?
4. Which team would be willing to trade down?

I still say a trade up to 29 with SD makes the most sense - if we were to do it.
We jump the Chicago Bears, who could very well take Pouncey if he was there.
It only costs us a 4th round pick.
The 29th pick is San Diego's second 1st-rounder...they might be more willing to deal and O-line is not a priority for them.

To not weigh these considerations is absurd. I can guarantee you that the Steelers have already identified players they would consider trading up for, how much they are willing to give up, and potential trade partners. If this process doesn't take place until after the combine, it will still be done. The only real question is "How much do we value Pouncey?"

I think JPN deftly showed us how an OG...this OG, is worthy of such consideration.

Shawn
02-18-2011, 07:29 PM
I'm a big fan of selecting Pouncey in the first. I would even be willing to move up a few spots to grab him. But, there is a very real possibility he won't make it past 20 let alone 29. I wouldn't move 10 spots for him that much I will say.

RuthlessBurgher
02-18-2011, 08:43 PM
I still say a trade up to 29 with SD makes the most sense - if we were to do it.
We jump the Chicago Bears, who could very well take Pouncey if he was there.
It only costs us a 4th round pick.
The 29th pick is San Diego's second 1st-rounder...they might be more willing to deal and O-line is not a priority for them.

The 29th pick is the Bears pick.

The Chargers only have one first round pick...#18.

In order to jump ahead of the Bears, you'd have to go to #28 (New England...it is their second first rounder...the Cheetahs also have two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders...those bastages...they also had two 4th rounders as well before trading one of them to re-acquire Deion Branch).

Flasteel
02-18-2011, 09:26 PM
I still say a trade up to 29 with SD makes the most sense - if we were to do it.
We jump the Chicago Bears, who could very well take Pouncey if he was there.
It only costs us a 4th round pick.
The 29th pick is San Diego's second 1st-rounder...they might be more willing to deal and O-line is not a priority for them.

The 29th pick is the Bears pick.

The Chargers only have one first round pick...#18.

In order to jump ahead of the Bears, you'd have to go to #28 (New England...it is their second first rounder...the Cheetahs also have two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders...those bastages...they also had two 4th rounders as well before trading one of them to re-acquire Deion Branch).

Dammit!!!! It happened again! I was looking at the 2nd round instead of the 1st and used it as the basis of my trade scenario. This is the second time this week (hell...maybe the third) that I have not read or processed something correctly and looked like an idiot.

...and Ruthless has busted me TWICE!!! :wft

Trading up to 28 with the Pats definitely seems less likely than if it was SD at 29...they have almost zero reason to accommodate us (although they do seem to be addicted to draft picks). The Pats O-line is also in flux and may want to snag Pouncey, if he's there.

Thanks to the clarity provided by Ruthless, it looks like we would have to be willing to part with a 3rd round pick to get Pouncey (or multiple picks). I don't like that. We could trade up as high as the 25th pick in that scenario, but a third-round pick is a high price to pay.

The Steelers would really have to love Pouncey to pull that off.

RuthlessBurgher
02-18-2011, 09:35 PM
I still say a trade up to 29 with SD makes the most sense - if we were to do it.
We jump the Chicago Bears, who could very well take Pouncey if he was there.
It only costs us a 4th round pick.
The 29th pick is San Diego's second 1st-rounder...they might be more willing to deal and O-line is not a priority for them.

The 29th pick is the Bears pick.

The Chargers only have one first round pick...#18.

In order to jump ahead of the Bears, you'd have to go to #28 (New England...it is their second first rounder...the Cheetahs also have two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders...those bastages...they also had two 4th rounders as well before trading one of them to re-acquire Deion Branch).

Dammit!!!! It happened again! I was looking at the 2nd round instead of the first and used it as the basis of my trade scenario. This is the second time this week (hell..maybe the third) that I have not read or processed something correctly and looked like an idiot.

...and Ruthless has busted me TWICE!!! :wft

Trading up to 28 with the Pats definitely seems less likely than if it was SD at 29...they have almost zero reason to accomodate us (although they do seem to be addicted to draft picks). The Pats O-line is also in flux and may want to snag Pouncey, if he's there.

Thanks to the clarity provided by Ruthless, it looks like we would have to be willing to part with a 3rd round pick to get Pouncey (or multiple picks). I don't like that. We could trade up as high as the 25th pick in that scenario, but a third-round pick is a high price to pay.

The Steelers would really have to love Pouncey to pull that off.

I'm not picking on you. Promise. :wink:

Trading up with Atlanta might be a possibility. Our 1st and 3rd for their 1st and 4th might do it. They'd move back 4 spots in the first (#27 to #31) and get to move up 28 spots from the 4th into the 3rd (#123 to #95) in return.

1.31 (600) + 3.95 (120) = 720
1.27 (680) + 4.123 (49) = 729

Pretty close. Doable, I'd say, if they are willing.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 09:42 PM
:Clap :Clap :Clap
Simply beautiful JPN!

The variables I see are:
1. How high do the Steelers have Pouncey rated?
2. What are we willing to give up?
3. Who is still on the board?
4. Which team would be willing to trade down?

I still say a trade up to 29 with SD makes the most sense - if we were to do it.
We jump the Chicago Bears, who could very well take Pouncey if he was there.
It only costs us a 4th round pick.
The 29th pick is San Diego's second 1st-rounder...they might be more willing to deal and O-line is not a priority for them.

To not weigh these considerations is absurd. I can guarantee you that the Steelers have already identified players they would consider trading up for, how much they are willing to give up, and potential trade partners. If this process doesn't take place until after the combine, it will still be done. The only real question is "How much do we value Pouncey?"

I think JPN deftly showed us how an OG...this OG, is worthy of such consideration.
Exactly right....That is also a big factor too Flasteel. Easy to say go up and get him but the Steelers need a "dance partner". Then the factor of how much they want. Value chart is a basis. Not uncommon for a team to ask for more...Also have seen where a team does it for less. I love Pouncey and think he is the player that could have the most impact on this team from a draft standpoint that "might" be within reach. I would go as high as our 1st, 3rd, & 5th. That might get you to 24. Unfortunately, if he has a solid workout at the combine...You might have to go to #21 to get him. Hard to believe that the Colts & Eagles will not be looking at OL. Just hope Carimi & Sherrod are still on the board and they look OT first.

And just remember, picks could be recovered if that needs to be done for those who think we need alot more picks. Simple dropping out of the second maybe to the 5-7 spot of the 3rd could land you another 4th. Maybe Ras-I Dowling isn't 100% and has a bad workout. You don't like anyone at #2 so you trade back. Maybe get Ras-I Dowling or Curtis Brown at the top of the 3rd if the like them. So I'm not worried about giving up a pick. If you sit down and pencil a 2011 roster, there won't be many spots. I would be more focused about plugging in a couple solid players than worry about flooding the roster...I get the feeling the FO will be thinking the same.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 10:08 PM
I'm a big fan of selecting Pouncey in the first. I would even be willing to move up a few spots to grab him. But, there is a very real possibility he won't make it past 20 let alone 29. I wouldn't move 10 spots for him that much I will say.

You could be 100% right with that statement after the combine. He shows a nice kick slide and good cone times at the combine...People will start throwing out the "he could play tackle" stuff like they did with Iupati.

I'm not giving up the whole draft to get him either. To get up ahead of the Colts at #21 is a steep price. The good thing is..It is the Chiefs and they could use a flooded roster. They might take a bargain but highly unlikely. You would have to give up your 1st & 2nd to get their 1st & 4th. I would need the whole clock to think about Pouncey, a 3rd, (2) 4's, a 5th, 6th, & 7th. I think I would have trouble calling KC back on that one.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-18-2011, 10:40 PM
the caps weren't for effect. i noticed it was caps as i was about to submit and was too lazy to change it

any whoo. if you dont draft them now, do you want the same problems in the secondary 2-3 years from now?,

look at past pro bowl and all pro rosters. there are many more Guards making it to that level despite being drated later on then there are cornerbacks.

My bad NJ...Thought you were looking for attention. :wink: I read them all...Got no beef with anyone on this planet.

Moving up for Pouncey is far from ignoring the CB problem. I think they are equal concerns. It has to be addressed. I just don't feel a #3-#5 CB at #31 (may not even have one there) will solve that problem in 2011. It will be difficult for him to move into that starting lineup. Maybe he never does. I posted in here how many starts CBs picked outside the top 25 had their rookie year. Nnamdi Asomugha started 1 his rookie year and 7 his second year. They had Buchanon and Woodson then but Buchanon beat out Asomugha his rookie year and the next year. Asomugha got the starting job the next year when Buchanon left via FA.

I'm targeting a CB @ 2. But I think the best think to do is also hit FA when the new CBA is in place and get a 2nd tier CB with starting experience. A guy like Brandon Carr, Richard Marshall, Eric Wright, or Stanford Routt. Let Gay test the FA waters. If Lewis, Butler, or even Warren (possibly FS) show you something in camp & preseason...Then maybe even McFadden becomes expendable. But you never could have enough good CBs. Would anyone have a problem with Taylor, Brandon Carr, McFadden, Lewis, Butler, & say Rashad Carmichael/Ras-I Dowling/Curtis Brown as opening CBs? I wouldn't complain.

Flasteel
02-18-2011, 11:19 PM
:Clap :Clap :Clap
Simply beautiful JPN!

The variables I see are:
1. How high do the Steelers have Pouncey rated?
2. What are we willing to give up?
3. Who is still on the board?
4. Which team would be willing to trade down?

I still say a trade up to 29 with SD makes the most sense - if we were to do it.
We jump the Chicago Bears, who could very well take Pouncey if he was there.
It only costs us a 4th round pick.
The 29th pick is San Diego's second 1st-rounder...they might be more willing to deal and O-line is not a priority for them.

To not weigh these considerations is absurd. I can guarantee you that the Steelers have already identified players they would consider trading up for, how much they are willing to give up, and potential trade partners. If this process doesn't take place until after the combine, it will still be done. The only real question is "How much do we value Pouncey?"

I think JPN deftly showed us how an OG...this OG, is worthy of such consideration.
Exactly right....That is also a big factor too Flasteel. Easy to say go up and get him but the Steelers need a "dance partner". Then the factor of how much they want. Value chart is a basis. Not uncommon for a team to ask for more...Also have seen where a team does it for less. I love Pouncey and think he is the player that could have the most impact on this team from a draft standpoint that "might" be within reach. I would go as high as our 1st, 3rd, & 5th. That might get you to 24. Unfortunately, if he has a solid workout at the combine...You might have to go to #21 to get him. Hard to believe that the Colts & Eagles will not be looking at OL. Just hope Carimi & Sherrod are still on the board and they look OT first.

And just remember, picks could be recovered if that needs to be done for those who think we need alot more picks. Simple dropping out of the second maybe to the 5-7 spot of the 3rd could land you another 4th. Maybe Ras-I Dowling isn't 100% and has a bad workout. You don't like anyone at #2 so you trade back. Maybe get Ras-I Dowling or Curtis Brown at the top of the 3rd if the like them. So I'm not worried about giving up a pick. If you sit down and pencil a 2011 roster, there won't be many spots. I would be more focused about plugging in a couple solid players than worry about flooding the roster...I get the feeling the FO will be thinking the same.

I think we're on the same page with Pouncey, but there's no way I trade out of the second round to get him. To me, that would exceed the price I'm willing to pay. I personally believe that we need to get a CB as much as we need to upgrade the line. But I don't think there is a corner who will be available that would have the kind of impact that Pouncey promises.

If we get Pouncey or some other lineman in the first, then we need to get the highest rated remaining corner on our board. If Pouncey doesn't fall to us and we go CB instead of another lineman in the 1st, then we need to get the best big guy available in the 2nd.

Like I stated earlier...I completely trust Colbert & Co. with 1st round pick. I also completely believe it will be in one of those 2 areas (maybe safety as well). If we do burn any ammo to move up in the first, that means we're getting a guy we really want. If we stand pat in the first, then we need to do what it takes to get the best remaining target. In that scenario, I personally wouldn't care what it took to move up in the 2nd round. We would ensure that we maximized the talent in both the secondary and the offensive line.

Moving out of the 2nd round (even the end of the second round) decreases the chance we get a guy we really like.

Captain Lemming
02-19-2011, 12:26 AM
I think you cloud things with the "reunite the twins" thought process.

"The Whole Is Greater Than The Sum Of Its Parts" my man.

It is a huge advantage in several ways.

Oline is about "Chemistry" and this level of chemistry is off the charts.

Another consideration is that these guys will have unique marketing angles which in addition to their closeness will make them easier to keep come time for free agency. They make more dough in endorsements, their stardom as olinemen will be unique because of being twins.

Mike does have MUCH greater value to us than any other team because The Whole Is Greater Than The Sum Of Its Parts.


Would you move up for Iuapti if he was in this years draft?

Despite all of the above I say YES most definately, I would do that in a second. The guy is a BEAST.

Captain Lemming
02-19-2011, 12:44 AM
A play maker is a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play, Ben (almost any game he's played in), Troy (Ravens AFCCG, Ravens playoff game this year and others), Rashard (Atlanta this year), Mike (He really hasn't yet, but it will happen).

An offensive lineman isn't this person and never will be.

You sure about that?

Yes, Willie Parker has the record SB run.

But it was a GUARD that sprung him.

Was Faneca "a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play"

No Faneca, no record run, no "play" by the playmaker. If that is Ramon, Willie sure aint breaking that run.

The "playmaker" is just the guy who gets the record

RuthlessBurgher
02-19-2011, 05:52 PM
A play maker is a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play, Ben (almost any game he's played in), Troy (Ravens AFCCG, Ravens playoff game this year and others), Rashard (Atlanta this year), Mike (He really hasn't yet, but it will happen).

An offensive lineman isn't this person and never will be.

You sure about that?

Yes, Willie Parker has the record SB run.

But it was a GUARD that sprung him.

Was Faneca "a guy that change the outcome of the game with one play"

No Faneca, no record run, no "play" by the playmaker. If that is Ramon, Willie sure aint breaking that run.

The "playmaker" is just the guy who gets the record

I believe we ran the same exact playcall against the Jets this year.

With a much better o-line against the Seahawks in SBXL, that was a record TD run for FWP.

With the ragtag bunch we had on our OL this year, Jason Taylor came through unblocked for a safety.