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View Full Version : How do we stop these high powered offenses?



StarSpangledSteeler
02-08-2011, 07:22 PM
I think we are all in agreement that the Steelers have trouble stopping these quick hitting, short passing, high powered offenses (like the Packers, Pats, Saints, and even Indy). The question is what alterations do we need to make to stop them? Is it just CB? Or is it more an issue of DL?

The Bengals have drafted a couple of really nice CB's in Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph and it doesn't seem to have helped them as much as one might think (because their pass rush sucks so bad). I'm not saying we don't need better CB's. We absolutely do. But would some fresh DL who can penetrate up the middle be more effective? That's how the Giants beat the best passing offense in the last 10 years. That's how the Bears always play the Packers close. When the Jets beat the Pats in this year's playoffs, I thought it had more to do with their DL getting pressure with only 4 guys than their CB's. This year there are 8-10 DL prospects projected to go in the first round. There is a reason why teams are drafting so heavily there.

Let's take a good look at the Steelers current DL... Although we technically play a 3-4 base, on passing downs there are many MANY instances in which our pass rush consists of Hood and Keisel on the inside and Harrison and Woodley on the outside. That is essentially a 4-3. We take Hampton off the field because he is too slow. This is no longer a situation where our NT can draw a double team and free up an ILB to stunt blitz. On another note, aside from Keisel, the Steelers DL is somewhat short. They rarely bat down balls (especially across the middle) which is key to stopping those short crossing routes. Who on our interior DL can consistently beat his man one-on-one in a pass rushing situation, or even play action on 1st down? Hood, maybe? I just don't see how drafting a fast CB alone is going to stop a 5 wide Brady ball attack when he's throwing the ball 50 times a game unbiasedly to whoever is open. I guess what I'm saying is, drafting at 1.31 and 2.31, we should be looking for a semi-premium passing rushing DL to slide just as much as a premium CB.

Chadman
02-08-2011, 07:31 PM
Not the worst idea at all.

That said, better CB play will 'extend' the play & give the pass rushers more time to get to the QB...

6 of one, half dozen of the other..

hawaiiansteel
02-08-2011, 07:47 PM
if you really want to stop a high powered offense then you can't have BMac starting, the other team will find him.

Crash
02-08-2011, 08:21 PM
Have faith in your players and allow them to make plays instead of being 10 yards off the ball.

skyhawk
02-08-2011, 11:45 PM
We can start by not turning the ball over to them. Simple. And fixable.

Rodgers and the GB offense only had one LONG drive all game. The pick 6 and short fields for GB on the two other TO's killed us. Btw, I can't remember if GB got any points off the stupid decision to kick a long FG.

Crash
02-08-2011, 11:47 PM
They did not.

JHsilverback
02-09-2011, 12:12 AM
Not the worst idea at all.

That said, better CB play will 'extend' the play & give the pass rushers more time to get to the QB...

6 of one, half dozen of the other..


Absolutely agree with you. There were times in the game where the pass rush needed maybe a half a second more to get to Rogers but were unable to because his receivers were wide open. We NEED to draft a corner in one of the first two rounds and bring that guy into the starting lineup quickly. Granted he will get burned but can't be any worse than watching Bmac and W.gay.

NJ-STEELER
02-09-2011, 02:15 AM
We can start by not turning the ball over to them. Simple. And fixable.

Rodgers and the GB offense only had one LONG drive all game. The pick 6 and short fields for GB on the two other TO's killed us. Btw, I can't remember if GB got any points off the stupid decision to kick a long FG.


how many long drives would they have had if they didnt drop 4 passes right in their hands?

skyhawk
02-09-2011, 02:24 AM
We can start by not turning the ball over to them. Simple. And fixable.

Rodgers and the GB offense only had one LONG drive all game. The pick 6 and short fields for GB on the two other TO's killed us. Btw, I can't remember if GB got any points off the stupid decision to kick a long FG.


how many long drives would they have had if they didnt drop 4 passes right in their hands?

Woulda Coulda shoulda. It's a fast game. They dropped balls. We turned it over. They didn't bring that part of their game. It happens.

NJ-STEELER
02-09-2011, 02:30 AM
were you trying to imply that they couldnt score on long drives?



they way they moved the ball, i disagree. 20 more yards at the start of some of their drives wouldnt have made much of a difference.

the dropped passes prevented them from putting up 40 points. like they nearly did in pittsburgh last year

skyhawk
02-09-2011, 03:37 AM
were you trying to imply that they couldnt score on long drives?



they way they moved the ball, i disagree. 20 more yards at the start of some of their drives wouldnt have made much of a difference.

the dropped passes prevented them from putting up 40 points. like they nearly did in pittsburgh last year

Good points. And this trouble stopping the pass has been around since 2002. That's a long time. They had a great defense in 2008 and stopped everyone (until the 4th Q of the SB). But the rules favor the offenses in this era.

But no one defense in the league is going to be able to stop everyone. The Steelers D is still pretty darn good. What can they do? Will a shut down corner solve this problem? Every team wishes they had this. Not many do.

Do we get a shut down CB? Or do we get an unstoppable WR to put up points? After all, the NFL rules favor the offense. Perhaps that's where the Steelers should put their focus.

Crash
02-09-2011, 03:49 AM
Perhaps that's where the Steelers should put their focus.

1. Field turf.

2. Three WR and Miller as a base offense.

That solves the offensive problems.

Defense? Play up close, jam the wides. Disrupt their timing.

Protect the 10 yards in front of you and quit worrying about the 70 behind you.

That solves the defense.

Crash
02-09-2011, 03:49 AM
Perhaps that's where the Steelers should put their focus.

1. Field turf.

2. Three WR and Miller as a base offense.

That solves the offensive problems.

Defense? Play up close, jam the wides. Disrupt their timing.

Protect the 10 yards in front of you and quit worrying about the 70 behind you.

That solves the defense.

skyhawk
02-09-2011, 04:36 AM
Perhaps that's where the Steelers should put their focus.

1. Field turf.

2. Three WR and Miller as a base offense.

That solves the offensive problems.

Defense? Play up close, jam the wides. Disrupt their timing.

Protect the 10 yards in front of you and quit worrying about the 70 behind you.

That solves the defense.

Agree on the cushions, but we used man press coverage on the line and jammeds the receivers during the SB at times. It worked occasionallyI think they are still learning how to better do it. And with only one athletic corneer, Ike, we get beaten 1-1.

Which, btw, our receivers have always had trouble getting separation 1-1. The pack had 7-8 guys on the LOS pressing us 80 pct of the time. They know we have trouble there. So there are problems in that area on both sides of the ball.

Crash
02-09-2011, 04:43 AM
Especially when we have two/three TE sets and gimpy Hines on the field.

When Spaeth and Johnson aren't on the field we move the ball almost at will.

Spaeth and Johnson's roles have to decrease, and Brown and Sanders' roles must increase.

Or it's the same thing next year as we have now.

BURGH86STEEL
02-09-2011, 06:34 AM
They need to get more pressure on the QB.

The Sodfather
02-09-2011, 08:47 AM
[
Agree on the cushions, but we used man press coverage on the line and jammeds the receivers during the SB at times. It worked occasionallyI think they are still learning how to better do it. And with only one athletic corneer, Ike, we get beaten 1-1.
.

The 2nd half of the season we played plenty of man press. Problem is Ike is the only one of our corners capable of playing it well consistently. BMac and Gay are much better zone corners mostly because they lack good speed.

Gay was man press/bump and run (whatever you want to call it) on the first TD to Nelson. Ike was man press on the 3rd and 7 to Jennings that kept their last drive alive. A couple of the balls Jones and Nelson dropped we were laying man press. It's not like we just sat back "10 yards off the ball" the whole game.

If we're going to continue to play this way they need to get better man cover corners and quit worrying so much about their run support.

flippy
02-09-2011, 09:06 AM
A ball hawking FS that allows us to press in coverage and frees Troy to play in the box more where he belongs.

Speed rushers on the outside. I like Harrison and Woodley, but guys like Worldis and Timmons would change the dynamic of our pass rush and pressure. We're more bull rush than speed.

A better LB to replace Farrior in coverage.

DE rotations. I'd be all for drafting a top 3-4 DE for pass rushing situations. Remember how good Keiel was when he played on 3rd downs? One more top DE and we could rotate Ziggy/Arron and Keisel/? to augment the 3rd down pressure. We haven't had this dynamic since Keisel became a full time starter.

And offensively, we need to upgrade the line, improve the running game, and improve the play calling to put more points on the board to force opposing QBs to go downfield instead of taking short gains. Ben needs to put up points and loads of them. We need to be more aggressive and attack.

I also wonder if BMac's skillset would be better suited for FS? He tackles well, he can play the ball, he's got decent speed, he's got good size, but he just can't cover. I also wonder if he'd be better in press coverage?

Also wonder if we could get a guy like CHamp Bailey and convert him to FS for a year or 2?

Oviedo
02-09-2011, 11:54 AM
if you really want to stop a high powered offense then you can't have BMac starting, the other team will find him.

You can have Bmac starting if he is healthy. But a young CB with legit man to man coverage skills is a must in this draft. I would try to get two of them.

Lewis is probably better suited to play safety. Hopefully Crezdon Butler will come out of the mandated LeBeau one year of hibernation and show he has real skills and challenge BMac.

As far as Safety we need to get guys in and develop them now. As I said, I think Lewis may be better suited to Safety and that was one of the assessements on him when he came out in the draft. It is unrealistic to think we ever get 16 games out of Troy so if that is the key guy on the defense you better spend a high pick on someone to grow into that role but they will never be Troy.

The one thing we absolutely can never let happen again is Anthony Madison on the field actually trying to cover somebody.

Crash
02-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Bailey needs to make up his mind at this point. Does he want one big final pay day or is he willing to accept less and go to a contender?

skyhawk
02-09-2011, 04:45 PM
Especially when we have two/three TE sets and gimpy Hines on the field.

When Spaeth and Johnson aren't on the field we move the ball almost at will.

Spaeth and Johnson's roles have to decrease, and Brown and Sanders' roles must increase.

Or it's the same thing next year as we have now.

I think that would certainly help. But like you said they have Johnson and Spaeth to satisfy the Steeler "need" to run the ball. There is no way we can run the ball effectively with Johnson and Spaeth out of there (with this Oline).

I am for a more passing offense (at the expense of a running game) if it can score more points. If that's the case, the Oline must pass block better, Ben MUST learn to get rid of the more faster, and the receivers need to become better route runners.

And, get rid of the d. amn bunch formation.

Crash
02-09-2011, 04:56 PM
There is no way we can run the ball effectively with Johnson and Spaeth out of there (with this Oline).

I disagree. I think having less people around the LOS will help the running game. Especially in the red-zone.

Spread them out. The jumbo TE formations suck.

We were 11th in rushing yards this season, smashmouth sheep think that's an improvement. But it's really not when you are 8th in attempts, and, gasp, *17th* in YPC.

skyhawk
02-09-2011, 05:12 PM
There is no way we can run the ball effectively with Johnson and Spaeth out of there (with this Oline).

I disagree. I think having less people around the LOS will help the running game. Especially in the red-zone.

Spread them out. The jumbo TE formations suck.

We were 11th in rushing yards this season, smashmouth sheep think that's an improvement. But it's really not when you are 8th in attempts, and, gasp, *17th* in YPC.

It would be worse without more big blockers. This line really leaves alot to be desired. NFL teams cannot run the ball well with 3-5 wide and a mediocre OL

NJ-STEELER
02-10-2011, 01:38 AM
[
Agree on the cushions, but we used man press coverage on the line and jammeds the receivers during the SB at times. It worked occasionallyI think they are still learning how to better do it. And with only one athletic corneer, Ike, we get beaten 1-1.
.



If we're going to continue to play this way they need to get better man cover corners and quit worrying so much about their run support.

$$

Crash
02-10-2011, 01:43 AM
NFL teams cannot run the ball well with 3-5 wide and a mediocre OL

Worked Sunday night for Mendy. All Spaeth and Johnson do is clog up the field.

The Sodfather
02-10-2011, 08:01 AM
If you're going to be consistently effective running the ball out of 3 wide you better have a dominate OL. We getting better there but it's still far from dominant.

Chadman
02-10-2011, 09:17 AM
If Bruce Arians remains the OC, the 2 TE set is here to stay for another year. The 2nd TE in Arians'offense is a STARTER, not a back-up.

that makes Matt Speath a starter.

People here are saying the Steelers can't run the ball. But if we remove Speath & insert a 'blocking TE' along the lines of what Mark Breuner used to be, one might think the blocking improves, which should improve the running game.

Heath Miller is a good starting TE. If the Steelers plan on using 2 TE's instead of a FB, then an early to mid-round TE with good blocking skills should be on the off season shopping list.

feltdizz
02-10-2011, 10:13 AM
Brees
Peyton
Brady
Rodgers

we have beat all these QB's at least one time. How many of these QB's have we beat a second time? :stirpot


Peyton is the only one we have come close to stopping since we beat him... all the others had their way with our D.

We have to mix it up like the Jets did against the Pats... instead of man they played zone all game. We have to switch things up.

rockonsteel
02-10-2011, 10:14 AM
Perhaps that's where the Steelers should put their focus.

Defense? Play up close, jam the wides. Disrupt their timing.

Protect the 10 yards in front of you and quit worrying about the 70 behind you.

That solves the defense.

Agree on the cushions, but we used man press coverage on the line and jammeds the receivers during the SB at times. It worked occasionallyI think they are still learning how to better do it. And with only one athletic corneer, Ike, we get beaten 1-1.

Therein lies the rub. While it's true they played more tight coverage in the second half of the season, the problem is they still allow receivers free releases. They don't get the jams to disrupt timing. It boggles my mind why a cb would press up on a receiver and not jam him at the LOS. It's a little different if the receiver is in the slot and plays off the line a couple yards. But when they're head up on the outside with guys, you gotta jam them, especially with QBs like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, guys who rely on timing and precision. That would allow the rushers that extra half second to get to the QB. I love Lebeau, but I hate the way he philosophically uses CBs.

And I remember several plays in the SB where the CBs were in press man. I'm struggling to remember any plays where they actually got a good, solid jam on a receiver.


Rockon

feltdizz
02-10-2011, 10:45 AM
ball skills suck in our secondary...

how many times have the DB's knocked down passes? Not many over the course of the season.

rockonsteel
02-10-2011, 12:28 PM
ball skills suck in our secondary...

how many times have the DB's knocked down passes? Not many over the course of the season.


One pass defended in 40 attempts by the Packers? Yeah, I'd have to agree with that to say the least.

Rockon