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hawaiiansteel
02-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Big Ben's Great? Not Even Close

By ComcastSports
Tue, 01 Feb 2011
By Jordan Raanan

http://static-p-a.comcast.net/api/assets/cimed-20110131/wtd110131bigben.jpg


Get ready for overhyping and overanalyzing. It's Super Bowl week, in Dallas no less, where even hats go large.

By the time the Big Game rolls around, the impossible will be done. Ben Roethlisberger will be made into Mother Teresa, Ted Thompson into Ron Wolf. Reality will sit about three pegs below all the hubbub we hear and read on television, radio, newspapers and this Internet thing that was just discovered by television, radio and newspapers alike.

So before we get buried by the hyperbole that is Super Bowl week coverage, let’s try and place everything into perspective. To do so, we're going to sprinkle a little truth serum on everything in and around the Super Bowl:

So, let's be honest …

If Pittsburgh handles Green Bay on Sunday, Roethlisberger will join some pretty elite company with his third Super Bowl title. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Tom Brady and Troy Aikman are the only QB's with three or more titles.

Adding Roethlisberger to that list is like putting Vanilla Ice's name next to Tupac, Snoop, Biggie and Jay-Z. He doesn't belong. Big Ben will be a three-time Super Bowl champ and one-time Pro Bowler -- in an era where everyone makes the Pro Bowl.

Despite the ridiculousness that's about to spouted all week, that's not the definition of all-time great. I don't care how many rings he accumulates. In fact, Big Ben's not even going to be the best quarterback on the field Sunday when he meets Aaron Rodgers.

Roethlisberger is pretty darn good; his organization is great. He's a Top 10 quarterback in the NFL today -- not even Top 5 -- who only needs to make a handful of plays per game for his team to win. Fortunately for him, football is a team game where the quarterback gets all the credit (or blame).

This ridiculousness that Roethlisberger is in the same stratosphere as Brady and Peyton Manning? Save it for another sucker. Big Ben played one of the worst Super Bowls of any quarterback in history (22.6 QB rating vs. Seattle) ... and won. He has been blessed to play with the support of a Top 5 scoring defense in five of his seven professional seasons. The two times Pittsburgh didn't finish in the top five, the Steleers missed the playoffs.

If Manning made only a handful of plays per game, Indy would lose most weeks by 20. Ditto a handful of other top QBs (Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb, Rodgers, Tony Romo) over the past seven seasons.

There isn't a day that goes by that Roethlisberger shouldn't thank his lucky stars that he was drafted by the most stable and successful organization in NFL history. If he were drafted by the Oakland Raiders, he'd be a slightly more successful JaMarcus Russell. Yep, I just said that.

Instead, because he plays on the Steelers, a pretty good NFL quarterback is on the verge of being considered an all-time great.

Please. Think Rivers or McNabb would have won Super Bowls with the Steelers? I do. Romo too. Yep, I just said that too.

I'm not trying to be a Roethlishater. He's a good NFL quarterback. But when people start calling Big Ben great, someone has to bring those people back down to the reality where the rest of us live, breathe and watch football with clear eyes.

Let's be honest ...

The two-week break between Championship Weekend and Super Bowl Sunday is painful. The Pro Bowl completely held us over this past week, like the cashews in a bag of Schwimmer's Health-Glo after a month on one of Survivor's islands.

At least there were three hours of Pro Bowl practices each day on the NFL Network. And a three-hour preview show for the most meaningless football game each year.

Thankfully, Hank Moody was around to satisfy my Sunday night. That man finds more trouble than Charlie Sheen. And I love him dearly for that.

Potpourri

Something tells me Chris Kemoeatu wasn't supposed to tell the world Maurkice Pouncey wasn't going to play in the Super Bowl. But is it surprising coming from a guy who dove into the pile 20 seconds late every other play against the Ravens? … Packers GM Ted Thompson deserves a few apologies. Like from the guy who created this site. Or this site. And this guy who called him an a@@clown on many occasions. The Packers didn't just reach the Bowl. They did it with with seven opening day starters on Injured Reserve and the guy who Thompson chose over Brett Favre at quarterback. Give credit where credit is due. … If the league and networks that broadcast the games want to stop being hypocrites, maybe they shouldn't show slow-motion replays of Rex Ryan slamming his headset and mouthing the most visible F-bomb of all-time. … Rodgers needs a new TD celebration. The championship belt act was fresh back when wrestling was still called WWF. … The players this weekend expressed their desire to keep the Pro Bowl in Hawaii. Um, OK. Who wouldn't want that free trip? Otherwise it's next year in Detroit.

Jordan Raanan has covered the Eagles and NFL since 2005. Follow him on Twitter @JordanRaanan.

http://www.comcast.net/sports/writethat ... evenclose/ (http://www.comcast.net/sports/writethatdown/6899836/bigbensgreatnotevenclose/)

Oviedo
02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Opinions of a Fantasy Football idiot. I guess if you have stats and lose you are great...see Phil Rivers.

This is however the moronic attitudes that will make Ben no better than a 50/50 candidate for the HoF.

anger 82&95
02-01-2011, 05:10 PM
Squealing and glad handing with pleasure about statistics is for Techmobowl players and highly overrated but still egosyntonic writers. And… to yet again flog the ole dead and desiccated horse, how about Roethlisberger’s EXCEPTIONAL play to get the Steelers to the big game against Seattle.

Crash
02-01-2011, 05:12 PM
Philip Rivers. :Blah

Crash
02-01-2011, 05:15 PM
This guy covers the Eagles.

Which means he's watching the Eagles when Ben's playing.

So he picks up the paper, reads the box-score, and assumes.

MCHammer
02-01-2011, 05:26 PM
A lot of us are getting a little worked up over all these Ben ain't elite articles. It's annoying, but this stuff is largely coming from people who either dislike Ben for off-field issues or just don't watch the Steelers all that often.

If you canvassed sports pundits and "analysts" across the league, you'd still probably hear that about 70% still think we are playing "smashmouth" run-the-ball, ball control "steelers football" and therefore the QB is largely irrelevant.

They largely aren't aware - despite having a job that pays them to watch football - of what they are talking about and easily forget/are unaware of Ben's many, many 4th quarter clutch drives.

It says more about the so-called analyst/pundit than it does about Ben that somebody would refuse to even put him in the top 5 and be totally dismissive of putting his name next to Peyton's or Brady's.

This will ultimately be a non-issue as Ben is in the prime of his career and could eventually have more rings than any QB ever. Let the entire body of work do the talking for us. Ben will be a HOF qb without a doubt one day. All the haters and ignoramuses really can't erase his achievements on the field. It's already becoming pretty hard to ignore them. Once the damn breaks and the new media meme takes hold, you won't find many of these cowardly clowns around still denying the obvious.

They will simply join the herd. Most media people at the end of the day are jock sniffing star worshippers and when they can't beat him/Steelers they will ultimately join him/Steelers.

NW Steeler
02-01-2011, 05:40 PM
I'm getting to the point to where I won't even read the drivel about Ben anymore. All I know is we have had #1 defenses and #1 running games and still never even got to the SB, save the '95 season. Tomzcak, O'donell, Kordell, Tommy Gun...nothing got us over the hump until Ben was our QB. The proof is in the pudding Mr. Douchebag writer. Ben does what he needs to to win. Whether he goes 10 for 20 or 25 for 40, he makes the plays. I hope that he has a GREAT game on Sunday so you will just STFU.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-01-2011, 05:44 PM
wow. this dude has no clue. wow, ben had a crappy QB rating 5 years ago where he had a bad superbowl performance......after steamrolling over Denver at their house and over Indy in their dome. People like to leave that part out.

ScoreKeeper
02-01-2011, 05:50 PM
I'm getting to the point to where I won't even read the drivel about Ben anymore. All I know is we have had #1 defenses and #1 running games and still never even got to the SB, save the '95 season. Tomzcak, O'donell, Kordell, Tommy Gun...nothing got us over the hump until Ben was our QB. The proof is in the pudding Mr. Douchebag writer. Ben does what he needs to to win. Whether he goes 10 for 20 or 25 for 40, he makes the plays. I hope that he has a GREAT game on Sunday so you will just STFU.
Amen brother. :Cheers

ikestops85
02-01-2011, 06:12 PM
http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10721/dont_listen2stupid.gif


Big Ben's Great? Not Even Close

By ComcastSports
Tue, 01 Feb 2011
By Jordan Raanan

http://static-p-a.comcast.net/api/assets/cimed-20110131/wtd110131bigben.jpg


Get ready for overhyping and overanalyzing. It's Super Bowl week, in Dallas no less, where even hats go large.

By the time the Big Game rolls around, the impossible will be done. Ben Roethlisberger will be made into Mother Teresa, Ted Thompson into Ron Wolf. Reality will sit about three pegs below all the hubbub we hear and read on television, radio, newspapers and this Internet thing that was just discovered by television, radio and newspapers alike.

So before we get buried by the hyperbole that is Super Bowl week coverage, let’s try and place everything into perspective. To do so, we're going to sprinkle a little truth serum on everything in and around the Super Bowl:

So, let's be honest …

If Pittsburgh handles Green Bay on Sunday, Roethlisberger will join some pretty elite company with his third Super Bowl title. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Tom Brady and Troy Aikman are the only QB's with three or more titles.

Adding Roethlisberger to that list is like putting Vanilla Ice's name next to Tupac, Snoop, Biggie and Jay-Z. He doesn't belong. Big Ben will be a three-time Super Bowl champ and one-time Pro Bowler -- in an era where everyone makes the Pro Bowl.

Despite the ridiculousness that's about to spouted all week, that's not the definition of all-time great. I don't care how many rings he accumulates. In fact, Big Ben's not even going to be the best quarterback on the field Sunday when he meets Aaron Rodgers.

Roethlisberger is pretty darn good; his organization is great. He's a Top 10 quarterback in the NFL today -- not even Top 5 -- who only needs to make a handful of plays per game for his team to win. Fortunately for him, football is a team game where the quarterback gets all the credit (or blame).

This ridiculousness that Roethlisberger is in the same stratosphere as Brady and Peyton Manning? Save it for another sucker. Big Ben played one of the worst Super Bowls of any quarterback in history (22.6 QB rating vs. Seattle) ... and won. He has been blessed to play with the support of a Top 5 scoring defense in five of his seven professional seasons. The two times Pittsburgh didn't finish in the top five, the Steleers missed the playoffs.

If Manning made only a handful of plays per game, Indy would lose most weeks by 20. Ditto a handful of other top QBs (Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb, Rodgers, Tony Romo) over the past seven seasons.

There isn't a day that goes by that Roethlisberger shouldn't thank his lucky stars that he was drafted by the most stable and successful organization in NFL history. If he were drafted by the Oakland Raiders, he'd be a slightly more successful JaMarcus Russell. Yep, I just said that.

Instead, because he plays on the Steelers, a pretty good NFL quarterback is on the verge of being considered an all-time great.

Please. Think Rivers or McNabb would have won Super Bowls with the Steelers? I do. Romo too. Yep, I just said that too.

I'm not trying to be a Roethlishater. He's a good NFL quarterback. But when people start calling Big Ben great, someone has to bring those people back down to the reality where the rest of us live, breathe and watch football with clear eyes.

Let's be honest ...

The two-week break between Championship Weekend and Super Bowl Sunday is painful. The Pro Bowl completely held us over this past week, like the cashews in a bag of Schwimmer's Health-Glo after a month on one of Survivor's islands.

At least there were three hours of Pro Bowl practices each day on the NFL Network. And a three-hour preview show for the most meaningless football game each year.

Thankfully, Hank Moody was around to satisfy my Sunday night. That man finds more trouble than Charlie Sheen. And I love him dearly for that.

Potpourri

Something tells me Chris Kemoeatu wasn't supposed to tell the world Maurkice Pouncey wasn't going to play in the Super Bowl. But is it surprising coming from a guy who dove into the pile 20 seconds late every other play against the Ravens? … Packers GM Ted Thompson deserves a few apologies. Like from the guy who created this site. Or this site. And this guy who called him an a@@clown on many occasions. The Packers didn't just reach the Bowl. They did it with with seven opening day starters on Injured Reserve and the guy who Thompson chose over Brett Favre at quarterback. Give credit where credit is due. … If the league and networks that broadcast the games want to stop being hypocrites, maybe they shouldn't show slow-motion replays of Rex Ryan slamming his headset and mouthing the most visible F-bomb of all-time. … Rodgers needs a new TD celebration. The championship belt act was fresh back when wrestling was still called WWF. … The players this weekend expressed their desire to keep the Pro Bowl in Hawaii. Um, OK. Who wouldn't want that free trip? Otherwise it's next year in Detroit.

Jordan Raanan has covered the Eagles and NFL since 2005. Follow him on Twitter @JordanRaanan.

http://www.comcast.net/sports/writethat ... evenclose/ (http://www.comcast.net/sports/writethatdown/6899836/bigbensgreatnotevenclose/)

hawaiiansteel
02-01-2011, 06:25 PM
As a playoff passer, Ben Roethlisberger is Tom Brady’s equal

Posted by Michael David Smith on February 1, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/tombrady.jpg?w=250

Fans love to debate which quarterback is the best of them all, which is why a discussion of whether Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is as good Tom Brady and Peyton Manning is our most-commented post of the last week. But when Roethlisberger was asked whether he thinks he’s up there with Brady and Manning, he gave a diplomatic answer.

“It probably depends on who you ask,” Roethlisberger said. “Every analyst and everybody have their opinions and that’s what they’re paid to do. I think they’re the best in the game. . . . I’d put Aaron Rodgers up there.”

Brady’s reputation is built largely on what he’s done in the playoffs, but it’s worth noting that Roethlisberger has comparable numbers to Brady in the postseason.

As I wrote in today’s Wall Street Journal, Brady’s career playoff passer rating is 85.7. Roethlisberger’s is 85.4. They’re basically equals in playoff passing efficiency.

And with a win on Sunday, they’ll also be equals in Super Bowl rings. Considering that Roethlisberger is also five years younger than Brady, it’s easy to envision, when both of their careers are over, Roethlisberger being considered one of the all-time great quarterbacks — and better than Brady.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/01/as-a-playoff-passer-ben-roethlisberger-is-tom-bradys-equal/

NW Steeler
02-01-2011, 06:38 PM
I'm getting to the point to where I won't even read the drivel about Ben anymore. All I know is we have had #1 defenses and #1 running games and still never even got to the SB, save the '95 season. Tomzcak, O'donell, Kordell, Tommy Gun...nothing got us over the hump until Ben was our QB. The proof is in the pudding Mr. Douchebag writer. Ben does what he needs to to win. Whether he goes 10 for 20 or 25 for 40, he makes the plays. I hope that he has a GREAT game on Sunday so you will just STFU.
Amen brother. :Cheers

Thank you. I am also post whoring so I can reach 1000 on Super Bowl Sunday!!!

:tt2

hawaiiansteel
02-01-2011, 06:45 PM
Thank you. I am also post whoring so I can reach 1000 on Super Bowl Sunday!!!

:tt2

http://stillernation.com/phpbb/images/smilies/pw.gif

BURGH86STEEL
02-01-2011, 06:52 PM
Ben's good enough to help this team win games. That's what really matters.

AngryAsian
02-01-2011, 06:59 PM
All the haters can suck the fat vein-layered one. Thank you for this... you all may continue.

aggiebones
02-01-2011, 09:01 PM
Whether he is or isn't the great QB we think, this guy is irrelevant in the discussions.

Who is this guy:
Jordan Raanan has covered the Eagles and NFL since 2005. Follow him on Twitter @JordanRaanan.

He's a nobody blogger. Basically any of us could do the same thing and say he IS Mother Teresa and it would carry as much weight in the world.

SteelCrazy
02-01-2011, 09:17 PM
From his twitter account,

"Apparently Steeler nation didn't agree with my assessment that Roethlisberger was very good but not great. New career high in hate mail 2day"

about 2 hours ago via web

skyhawk
02-01-2011, 10:01 PM
[quote="NW Steeler":3h8q5liq]I'm getting to the point to where I won't even read the drivel about Ben anymore. All I know is we have had #1 defenses and #1 running games and still never even got to the SB, save the '95 season. Tomzcak, O'donell, Kordell, Tommy Gun...nothing got us over the hump until Ben was our QB. The proof is in the pudding Mr. Douchebag writer. Ben does what he needs to to win. Whether he goes 10 for 20 or 25 for 40, he makes the plays. I hope that he has a GREAT game on Sunday so you will just STFU.
Amen brother. :Cheers

Thank you. I am also post whoring so I can reach 1000 on Super Bowl Sunday!!!

:tt2[/quote:3h8q5liq]

Same here. I am sure you will beat me. I have tried to stay off this board until the game (no offense to the board at all, just the nincompoops that write these blogs on Ben.)

hawaiiansteel
02-02-2011, 02:56 AM
Which QB would you rather have with game on the line?

NFL.com
Published: Feb. 1, 2011

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/nfl_image_59422.jpg

Mark J. Terrill / Associated Press
Ben Roethlisberger has experience bringing his team back in the final moments of a Super Bowl.


DALLAS -- Two minutes to go, down by 6 ... who you got: Ben Roethlisberger or Aaron Rodgers? With the Super Bowl XLV matchup between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers so evenly matched, it might just come down to such a scenario.

We put the question to our analysts and writers. Here's what they had to say:


Gil Brandt: Rodgers
I'm going to take Aaron Rodgers. Give me the quarterback who is most likely to escape and make a play when one is needed. Ben Roethlisberger can escape but is not quick. Next to Michael Vick, there's no quicker quarterback with escape skills than Rodgers.

Vic Carucci: Roethlisberger
Ben Roethlisberger already has delivered in the clutch in a Super Bowl. Also, his game is more conducive to what you want from a quarterback under such circumstances. By nature, he is constantly looking to buy extra time, move around and make the sort of plays that must be made when the pressure -- of the situation and from the opposing defense -- is at its greatest. His mindset is to constantly fight and find a way to win, which is exactly what is needed to be successful in this scenario.

Elliot Harrison: Roethlisberger
Roethlisberger has shown time and again that he can be a clutch player. I also trust Pittsburgh's defense more, which would make it harder on Rodgers. Both guys are excellent out of the pocket, but Roethlisberger reminds me a little of a young John Elway -- when the play breaks down, he plays his best. A lot of times two-minute situations come down to who can play streetball better, and Roethlisberger is probably the best in the league at that.

Pat Kirwan: Roethlisberger
This season, Roethlisberger has more experience playing from behind in the fourth quarter, completing 102 of 165 passes with seven touchdowns and three interceptions. Rodgers completed 64 of 103 passes with four TDs and three picks. Rodgers has been impressive in his limited postseason experience, never throwing an interception when losing or in the fourth quarter. Roethlisberger has much more postseason experience and has thrown 10 touchdowns with his team trailing. Roethlisberger's drive to beat the Cardinals in his last Super Bowl appearance gives him a slight edge.

Jason La Canfora: Roethlisberger
Roethlisberger is one of the greatest playmakers in NFL history. Period. Regardless of position. Third-and-19 against one of the top defenses in the league with the game on the line? No problem. He'll get it done. He has loads of Super Bowl experience and you just can't knock him down when the game is on the line. Rodgers has been one of the best red-zone quarterbacks ever, and can run his tail off, but you have to lean to Roethlisberger's experience, size and strength combination.


Which QB would you rather have with the game on the line?

61%
Aaron Rodgers
39%
Ben Roethlisberger

Total Votes: 1215


Michael Lombardi: Roethlisberger
Some players shy from pressure, some relish it. Ben Roethlisberger embraces the pressure, doing his best work when the game is in the balance. The two-minute drill is never predictable; when the scripted play breaks down, Roethlisberger is the best, more times than not making something out of nothing. The Steelers believe in their quarterback and they want the ball in his hands when the game is on the line. Just ask the Jets.

Steve Wyche: Roethlisberger
With two minutes to go and down by a score, it's Ben Roethlisberger all day. I would take Roethlisberger over just about any other quarterback in the NFL, let alone Aaron Rodgers. Roethlisberger's clutch play is why I consider him to be among the best players in the NFL. He might not put up fantasy stats, but he puts up big play after big play for his team in the final seconds. There are a lot of quarterbacks who can throw for 400 yards and three touchdowns a game. Only three -- Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Roethlisberger -- can go 6-of-7 and drive a team 80 yards for a touchdown in the final two minutes without breaking a sweat.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e0dadb/article/which-qb-would-you-rather-have-with-game-on-the-line

The Sodfather
02-02-2011, 08:00 AM
I'm getting to the point to where I won't even read the drivel about Ben anymore. All I know is we have had #1 defenses and #1 running games and still never even got to the SB, save the '95 season. Tomzcak, O'donell, Kordell, Tommy Gun...nothing got us over the hump until Ben was our QB. The proof is in the pudding Mr. Douchebag writer. Ben does what he needs to to win. Whether he goes 10 for 20 or 25 for 40, he makes the plays. I hope that he has a GREAT game on Sunday so you will just STFU.


:tt1 :tt1 :tt2 :tt1 :tt2

SteelTorch
02-02-2011, 11:11 AM
wow. this dude has no clue. wow, ben had a crappy QB rating 5 years ago where he had a bad superbowl performance......after steamrolling over Denver at their house and over Indy in their dome. People like to leave that part out.
Exactly. What's sad is a lot of people point to this ONE GAME as if it defines his entire career. :roll:

SteelTorch
02-02-2011, 11:25 AM
I just realized THIS is the sum of his rationalization for claiming Ben isn't great:


This ridiculousness that Roethlisberger is in the same stratosphere as Brady and Peyton Manning? Save it for another sucker. Big Ben played one of the worst Super Bowls of any quarterback in history (22.6 QB rating vs. Seattle) ... and won. He has been blessed to play with the support of a Top 5 scoring defense in five of his seven professional seasons. The two times Pittsburgh didn't finish in the top five, the Steleers missed the playoffs.

So that's one game - stupidity of argument obvious. As far as us missing the playoffs, maybe you could blame Ben for 2006 when he did have a bad season, but he was hardly to blame in 2009 when he actually had a great season. (He was 5th in the league in rating, btw).

So basically this guy talks out of his azz and can't actually back up the things he says. Why in the hell are we even posting stuff from this clown? More so, why do we even give two sh**s about what media and bloggers think anyway? The team's been getting along fine without their praise. :tt2

Crash
02-02-2011, 03:45 PM
Big Ben played one of the worst Super Bowls of any quarterback in history (22.6 QB rating vs. Seattle) ... and won.

So did John Elway when he beat the Packers.

BFD.

Stats are for losers. I'll take the rings.

Eich
02-02-2011, 05:17 PM
Keep the articles and blogs like this coming. This kind of stuff only motivates Ben and the Steelers more.

The stars are aligning for ring number 7. Ben and Terry bury the hatchet. Goddell and the media piss off the Steelers. Packers are favored.

You just can't come up with more signs pointing to a Steelers win with a dominating performance.

hawaiiansteel
02-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Jim Rome just made a great point on his tv show about this very article:

"You wanna talk numbers? How about Ben is 10-2 in the playoffs and 2-0 in the Super Bowl?"

Djfan
02-02-2011, 05:48 PM
Jim Rome just made a great point on his tv show about this very article:

"You wanna talk numbers? How about Ben is 10-2 in the playoffs and 2-0 in the Super Bowl?"


Great quote. Can't stand Rome.

hawaiiansteel
02-02-2011, 06:54 PM
Is Ben Roethlisberger Hall of Fame worthy?

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0202/nfl_ben_hof2_576.jpg

February, 2, 2011
By James Walker

Ben Roethlisberger can bolster his HOF credentials with a third Super Bowl victory.


ARLINGTON, Texas -- When it comes to the Hall of Fame, three or more championships is the magic number for NFL quarterbacks.

It paved the road to Canton for Dallas Cowboys great Troy Aikman, whose three Super Bowl wins in the 1990s marked one of the NFL's most recent dynasties.

Joe Montana of the San Francisco 49ers and Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Terry Bradshaw became legends with four titles. In today's group, quarterback Tom Brady of the New England Patriots is a lock for the Hall of Fame after winning three championships.

Could three rings do the same for Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger?

Just seven seasons in, it's officially time to open the Hall of Fame discussion for Pittsburgh's franchise quarterback. At 28, Roethlisberger has a chance to go 3-0 in Super Bowls on Sunday when the Steelers play the Green Bay Packers at Cowboys Stadium.

With the exception of Brady, who is still playing, every starting quarterback who's won at least three Super Bowls has been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Although not as conventional a player as Brady, Roethlisberger has a chance to put his name in that elite category Sunday.

ESPN.com's AFC North blog surveyed Hall of Fame voters during Super Bowl week to get a feel for Roethlisberger's candidacy and where it would stand if he leads Pittsburgh to a third championship.

"If you ask me if Roethlisberger deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, I would say without a doubt," said veteran NFL writer John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. "To me, Ben doesn't have to win a third ring. But if Ben wins [Sunday], that's all that matters for a quarterback. I can't imagine there would be any hesitation."

Opinions varied from those who will eventually make the final decision.

"There's too much of a rush to judgment, not only with the Hall of Fame but with the whole world where everything that's the latest becomes the greatest," explained longtime Hall of Fame voter Ira Miller. "But the first question I always ask is, 'Can you write the history of the game without this player?' Then the second thing is, let's put him in perspective among the quarterbacks of his era.

"Is Ben the best quarterback of his era? No. Is he the second best? No. Is he the third? Maybe. He's had a nice career so far. Maybe he will win two more Super Bowls, but we don't know that."

There's no question Roethlisberger will present an interesting case for the Hall of Fame committee when he becomes eligible five years after he retires. He's a quarterback who's put up less-than-gaudy numbers in the high-flying age of fantasy football.

Roethlisberger has never led the NFL in passing yards or touchdowns. He admits he probably will never win an MVP award. But Roethlisberger also has never had a losing season and has been to four AFC title games and three Super Bowls.

Roethlisberger's playoff record is 10-2, which is a higher winning percentage than both Brady (14-5) and Peyton Manning (9-10), who are considered Hall of Fame locks from today's group of quarterbacks.

In fact, the trio's dominance has been astounding. In the past eight Super Bowls, the AFC has been represented by either Brady, Manning or Roethlisberger. No one else has had a chance to even compete in the big game. In contrast, the NFC has been represented by eight teams and eight different quarterbacks over the same span (Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner and Drew Brees).

"It drives [Steelers] Coach [Mike] Tomlin crazy, because he wants me to put myself in that category," Roethlisberger said of joining Brady and Peyton Manning. "But, I don't know, I guess I like being the hunter, not the hunted."

Got rings?
Here are starting NFL quarterbacks with multiple Super Bowl victories

Player Team Titles

*1. Joe Montana 49ers 4
*2. Terry Bradshaw Steelers 4
*3. Troy Aikman Cowboys 3
4. Tom Brady Patriots 3
5. B. Roethlisberger Steelers 2
*6. John Elway Broncos 2
*7. Roger Staubach Cowboys 2
*8. Bart Starr Packers 2
*9. Bob Griese Dolphins 2
10. Jim Plunkett Raiders 2
* Hall of Famer

The biggest case against Roethlisberger's Hall of Fame candidacy appears to be longevity. Seven seasons present an unfinished résumé.

"When I'm looking at Hall of Fame guys, I'm looking at whether he's one of the best at his position over an extended period of time and does he have longevity," said former receiver James Lofton, who played 16 seasons and was inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2003. "It's obviously a great start, but Ben has a lot of football left to play. I think he could play a minimum of 12 years."

Although there are exceptions -- such as Gale Sayers, Dwight Stephenson and Doak Walker -- most enshrinees have had long careers that spanned at least a decade. But Roethlisberger is winning big right away, which has prompted this early discussion.

"If Roethlisberger gets his third ring, he's on pace, just like in the case of Troy Aikman," Hall of Fame voter and ESPN.com senior writer John Clayton said. "He's obviously a difference-maker. At the same time, he's not there yet. He's still 28 and longevity is very important."

Roethlisberger's recent off-the-field issues bring up another interesting debate. He has been accused of sexual assault twice in the past two years, and although never convicted of a crime, Roethlisberger was suspended four games this season for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy.

Several voters brought up the case of former Giants linebacker Lawrence Taylor, who has repeatedly run into legal issues but was a first-ballot Hall of Famer as one of the greatest linebackers of all time.

"Remember, our bylaws say only what happens on the field counts," McClain said.

But voters on the committee are human, after all, and it may weigh in the back of some people's minds.

"The Roethlisberger situation is a bit tricky," said Hall of Fame voter Joe Reedy of the Cincinnati Enquirer. "Yes, he could have three rings, but he wasn't great in Super Bowl XL. (Roethlisberger was 9-for-21 for 123 yards and threw two picks.) And even though the off-field stuff is not supposed to enter into the conversation, it definitely is going to be the white elephant in the room."

Roethlisberger chose to wear jersey No. 7 because one of his favorite players growing up was Denver Broncos Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway. It's fitting because Elway, in many ways, was Roethlisberger before Roethlisberger.

Elway never had the prettiest or most conventional style of quarterbacking. In terms of numbers, his career passer rating was a modest 79.9. But Elway was one of the most clutch players ever and managed to win two Super Bowls and five AFC title games.

Although his book is unfinished, Roethlisberger is building a similar case for the Hall of Fame and can add another storied chapter Sunday against Green Bay.

"I think Ben Roethlisberger is well on his way to having a Hall of Fame career. If he plays a leading role in winning this Super Bowl, he's that much closer," said Hall of Fame voter and ESPN.com NFC West blogger Mike Sando. "But I think the legacy is still pending and there's a reason we wait. There's a reason we don’t vote players in right after they retire, let alone while they're still playing. I think this will be best judged when he's finished playing and we've had five years to figure it out.

"So far, though, so good."

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/24227/is-ben-roethlisberger-hall-of-fame-worthy

Crash
02-02-2011, 07:19 PM
EVERY QB who has started at least three SBs is in, regardless of number of rings won.

Three more productive years, and Ben is in.

Sorry haters, that's just the way it goes.

ALLD
02-02-2011, 07:55 PM
It will be interesting. If Mendenhall has a big game, then the detractors will say the Steelers have the #1D and a running game, so any QB could have won.

Crash
02-02-2011, 07:58 PM
It will be interesting. If Mendenhall has a big game, then the detractors will say the Steelers have the #1D and a running game, so any QB could have won.

1983-2003

No rings.

Peyton Manning had a top two defense in 2005 and 2007.

One and done.

Aikman is in, he had one 20 TD pass season and played with Emmit Smith.

feltdizz
02-02-2011, 08:58 PM
"But, I don't know, I guess I like being the hunter, not the hunted."

ScoreKeeper
02-03-2011, 01:53 PM
God I am tired of hearing about his lack luster performance in XL. Who got us there? Ben.

And IIRC, Elway had almost a mirrow game of XL while winning his first SB and nobody ever says he only has one ring.

Iron Shiek
02-03-2011, 02:41 PM
God I am tired of hearing about his lack luster performance in XL. Who got us there? Ben.

And IIRC, Elway had almost a mirrow game of XL while winning his first SB and nobody ever says he only has one ring.

Exactly. He was so pivotal in several of the performances during the regular season and especially in the playoffs. But its natural for people to have the Super Bowl as their fondest memory of that season.

hawaiiansteel
02-04-2011, 01:58 AM
Kurt Warner says Roethlisberger not a Hall of Famer, yet

Posted by Mike Florio on February 4, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/b-roethlisbergerarms.jpg?w=250

With the annual Hall of Fame vote coming up on Saturday and increased chatter that Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger will nail down a spot in Canton with a third Super Bowl win, a guy who won only one title in three tries takes issue with the idea that Roethlisberger belongs among the game’s immortals.

Former Rams, Giants, and Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner says it’s too early to bang out a bronze bust for Big Ben.

“I like Ben,” Warner told 620 KTAR in Phoenix. “I think Ben’s great and I think he’s a winner. And to me that speaks volumes for your legacy. But when you’re talking about the best quarterbacks in the league, you have to look at all the factors here.

“I mean, he won a Super Bowl and he was 8-23. But he won the Super Bowl and he gets that on his resume. But he was still 8-23.”

Warner is referring to Super Bowl XL, in which Roethlisberger completed nine of 21 passes for 123 yards and two interceptions. He also had seven rushing attempts for 25 yards and a touchdown.

In Super Bowl XLIII against Warner’s Cardinals, Roethlisberger completed 21 of 30 passes for 256 yards, one interception, and the game-winning touchdown pass to Santonio Holmes.

“I’m just waiting to see Ben as the guy that carries his team at some point in time,” Warner said. “The fortunate thing for him is he hasn’t had to do that. He carries them in the last two minutes. He makes some key plays. [He's] phenomenal out of the pocket and ad-libbing. But for me, if you go to the Hall of Fame, you have to be a guy who can carry your team week in and week out as a quarterback. That’s my opinion.”

Sorry, but we’d rather have a guy who carries the team when it counts than when the game isn’t on the line. Even though Roethlisberger may not have had impressive numbers in Super Bowl XL, he presided over three straight road playoff wins to get there. In each of this year’s playoff wins, Roethlisberger delivered clutch third-down throws to Antonio Brown, including a 58-yarder on third-and-19 that, if the Steelers beat the Packers on Sunday, rightly should be remembered as one of the biggest plays in NFL postseason history.

Then there’s the fact that, since losing in the AFC title game to cap his rookie season, Roethlisberger has led the Steelers to nine of 10 win in postseason games

Nine of 10. Warner didn’t do that. Brady hasn’t done that. Manning hasn’t done that.

So while we respect Warner’s opinion, we’ll disagree with it. If Roethlisberger gets his third Super Bowl win in three tries, he’ll be bound for Canton five years after calling it quits.

Especially since he may end up with four or five rings.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/04/kurt-warner-says-roethlisberger-not-a-hall-of-famer-yet/

Crash
02-04-2011, 02:02 AM
Poor Kurt, for a Bible thumper he's pretty bitter.

If Ben's not a HOF QB neither is Warner.

hawaiiansteel
02-05-2011, 05:59 PM
February 5, 2011, 3:26 AM ET

Would third ring equal Big Ben to Brady?

Steelers QB and Patriots signal-caller are very different but yield similar results

By Mike Reiss
ESPNBoston.com

DALLAS -- When coaches, players, scouts and analysts here at the Super Bowl were asked to compare New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, the response was almost universal: Different styles but they produce similar results.

And in the end, those winning results are all that matter.

That's why they believe putting Brady and Roethlisberger in the same sentence is in-bounds -- assuming Roethlisberger wins his third Super Bowl championship Sunday to join Brady, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana as the only quarterbacks to win at least three Super Bowls.

In the case of Roethlisberger vs. Brady, perhaps Mark Malone of CBS Radio and Westwood One put it best.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0204/nfl_g_ben11_300.jpg

If Big Ben wins his third Super Bowl ring on Sunday, many believe he can be discussed in the same vein as Tom Brady.

"Genetically, they are almost polar opposites of each other; there is a big contrast there," he said. "But I think what it tells you is there are different ways to get to the ultimate goal and win that Vince Lombardi trophy."

Those thoughts were echoed by longtime coach Dick Vermeil.

"The end result of what they do is the same, how they do it is different," said Vermeil, the Super Bowl-winning St. Louis Rams coach who was in town to promote Vermeil Wines. "Brady is more the pure drop-back, set in the pocket, take advantage of your protection and throw the ball -- accurately. Roethlisberger is more of a fullback at the quarterback spot. He'll scramble around, get outside and wing it. It's a gift because it's hard to get him down. Brady is more of a target.

"That's the main difference, but the end result -- when the ball leaves their hand, it normally goes to the right place and the right guy."

Because of that, Vermeil thinks it's fair to put the two in the same sentence should Roethlisberger lead the Steelers to victory Sunday.

"You have to," he said. "It's like taking two great sprinters and they end up running the same time, they're equally fast."

Derrick Brooks, who played linebacker for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for 14 seasons and was voted to 11 Pro Bowls, also sees the link between Brady and Roethlisberger.

"In terms of wins and losses, you have to put them together," said Brooks, who worked Super Bowl week as an analyst on Sirius NFL Radio. "Ben admits that playing quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers, his stats will never be the same, and that's for obvious reasons. Also, it's hard for a quarterback to overcome the reputation of the defense in Pittsburgh.

"Everyone realizes their differences. Ben is not going to come out and throw the ball 50 times. It's not going to be spread out, wide open, like Tom. Ben has to create plays the way he does now, with his body and athleticism. Tom creates plays differently, and there is nothing wrong with either approach. They both work."

Malone expounded on those thoughts.

"Let's start with the philosophies that both teams hold dear. For decades, it's been part of Pittsburgh's DNA to play physical defense, to run the football and ask their quarterbacks to complement that. Ben does that to a very high degree," he said. "I don't think that's a team where Ben is going to throw for 4,000 yards and 50 touchdowns, but it doesn't matter. I think Ben's approach to that has been very good because he's basically said, 'I'm not going to win league MVPs or passing titles, but it's about Super Bowls.'

"Tom, on the other hand, his ability to escape out of the pocket isn't as good as Ben's, but his decision-making is so good. He is such a bright guy and does such a great job of preparing, and he's so very accurate, and they put players around him in a system that allows him to get rid of the football because I think they've lacked a little bit in the running game. So they find ways to manufacture yards in the passing game in place of the running game, and Tom does a great job with that."

Former St. Louis Rams vice president of player personnel Tony Softli sees it the same way.

"I would definitely put Ben in that conversation, anybody that wins three Super Bowls," said Softli, who now works for ESPN 101 Radio in St. Louis. "Tom did it and he's an outstanding quarterback, one of the best who ever played the game, if not the best. I would think you'd have to put Roethlisberger in that category [if he wins a third], even though their styles are different. Tom is more of a pocket guy, where Ben has guys hanging off him, sandlot-playing and throwing the ball, extending the play outside of the pocket.

"In the end, regardless of style, both of those guys are outstanding."

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=6091390

Crash
02-05-2011, 06:06 PM
Sandlot my as$.

Ben makes plenty of throws from the pocket.

Just because he doesn't wilt under pressure doesn't make him a sandlot QB.

Crash
02-05-2011, 07:04 PM
God I am tired of hearing about his lack luster performance in XL.

That wouldn't even bother me if they held all to the same standard.

Elway's first ring, and Brady's first ring are very similar games to Ben's.

But you don't hear a damn thing about them.

Bradshaw threw less than 100 yards in IX, and his offense had one long TD drive all day.

SteelTorch
02-05-2011, 07:42 PM
God I am tired of hearing about his lack luster performance in XL. Who got us there? Ben.

And IIRC, Elway had almost a mirrow game of XL while winning his first SB and nobody ever says he only has one ring.

Exactly. He was so pivotal in several of the performances during the regular season and especially in the playoffs. But its natural for people to have the Super Bowl as their fondest memory of that season.
Plus that was his SECOND season. I would have been more shocked if he had done really well. :roll: