Has BA redeemed himself?

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Cr*ppy O-line, no real "Thunder and Lightning" RB combo, no franchise QB for 1/4 of the season ...

AFCCG 2 years out of 3.

If no, what if he gets us to the SB?

What if we WIN the SB - is he a keeper then?

Do we really want Ben (and the whole offense) to start from scratch - new play book, new philosophy, probably a new assistant coach or two, THAT much?


I'm just askin'!!

[Crash]

If they get to the SB IMO he has to stay.

[hawaiiansteel]

If they get to the SB IMO he has to stay.


and if we don't get to the SB then Arians has to go, even if it's the defenses fault... :D

[Crash]

He's done what they asked him to do. His one weakness is predictability based on formation.

[StarSpangledSteeler]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

There is something to be said for the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it." But there's also something to be said for the expression "if you're not getting better, you're getting worse". Our offense is not getting any better with Bruce. An OC's job is to outsmart our opponents. We need a "general". A true "field marshall" who can put our troops in a position to succeed based on what he sees in our opponents. Adjusting to their schemes and tactics. Bruce has never been able to do this and I truly believe he never will. It's like expecting Kemo to suddenly get good at pass blocking. Keeping Bruce is like keeping all of our current OL starters the same for next year. No need to upgrade them because "they ain't broke". We're winning right? I'm not buying that. We won Super Bowl XLIII in spite of our OL. And we continue to win now in spite of Bruce.

[LordVile]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

There is something to be said for the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it." But there's also something to be said for the expression "if you're not getting better, you're getting worse". Our offense is not getting any better with Bruce. An OC's job is to outsmart our opponents. We need a "general". A true "field marshall" who can put our troops in a position to succeed based on what he sees in our opponents. Adjusting to their schemes and tactics. Bruce has never been able to do this and I truly believe he never will. It's like expecting Kemo to suddenly get good at pass blocking. Keeping Bruce is like keeping all of our current OL starters the same for next year. No need to upgrade them because "they ain't broke". We're winning right? I'm not buying that. We won Super Bowl XLIII in spite of our OL. And we continue to win now in spite of Bruce.
:Agree

[The Sodfather]

He's done what they asked him to do. His one weakness is predictability based on formation.


You have to admit though, that's a pretty big weakness.

BA knows the game. He's just not a great playcaller, IMO.

[Flasteel]

He's done what they asked him to do. His one weakness is predictability based on formation.

Uhh...what about his inability to adjust to pressure?

What about attacking a defenses weakness?

Exploiting defensive tendencies?

Play calling?

His weakness as an OC goes far beyond predictability.

I agree 100% with what StarSpangledSteeler wrote. However, I think we are seeing the gradual ascension of Ben Roethlisberger as a guy who calls his own shots. Especially if we win the whole thing again, we can't blow up what's in place and start from scratch. We need to keep some measure of continuity but we have to get better offensively...our offensive talent alone demands that.

If we fail to win the Super Bowl, fire BA and promote Randy Fitchner.
If we win the Super Bowl and the offense shows signs of life, I have no problem keeping BA as OC

[Oviedo]

Arians has probably taken the offense as far as he can. He doesn't deserve half the criticism he gets because he successfully transitioned the offense to one that can compete with elite offenses in the league and is designed to take advantage of the rules favoring a passing offense.

It is probably time for Bruce to retire. He doesn't have a contract when the season ends and I am of the opinion that they will hand over the reins to Randy Fichtner. That way there will be a fresh meat and a new target for all the hate that any OC we have will get.

[Djfan]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

There is something to be said for the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it." But there's also something to be said for the expression "if you're not getting better, you're getting worse". Our offense is not getting any better with Bruce. An OC's job is to outsmart our opponents. We need a "general". A true "field marshall" who can put our troops in a position to succeed based on what he sees in our opponents. Adjusting to their schemes and tactics. Bruce has never been able to do this and I truly believe he never will. It's like expecting Kemo to suddenly get good at pass blocking. Keeping Bruce is like keeping all of our current OL starters the same for next year. No need to upgrade them because "they ain't broke". We're winning right? I'm not buying that. We won Super Bowl XLIII in spite of our OL. And we continue to win now in spite of Bruce.
:Agree


X2

[feltdizz]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

There is something to be said for the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it." But there's also something to be said for the expression "if you're not getting better, you're getting worse". Our offense is not getting any better with Bruce. An OC's job is to outsmart our opponents. We need a "general". A true "field marshall" who can put our troops in a position to succeed based on what he sees in our opponents. Adjusting to their schemes and tactics. Bruce has never been able to do this and I truly believe he never will. It's like expecting Kemo to suddenly get good at pass blocking. Keeping Bruce is like keeping all of our current OL starters the same for next year. No need to upgrade them because "they ain't broke". We're winning right? I'm not buying that. We won Super Bowl XLIII in spite of our OL. And we continue to win now in spite of Bruce.



I don't know about you but I like winning SB's and being in AFCCG's in spite of our OC.

Regardless of the OC Ben will pump, break the pocket and make things happen. Look how great Whiz's offense is in AZ without Warner.

The biggest problem I have with Arians is the lack of runs on the edge... but who knows how many of those plays are blown up due to the OL.

[Oviedo]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

There is something to be said for the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it." But there's also something to be said for the expression "if you're not getting better, you're getting worse". Our offense is not getting any better with Bruce. An OC's job is to outsmart our opponents. We need a "general". A true "field marshall" who can put our troops in a position to succeed based on what he sees in our opponents. Adjusting to their schemes and tactics. Bruce has never been able to do this and I truly believe he never will. It's like expecting Kemo to suddenly get good at pass blocking. Keeping Bruce is like keeping all of our current OL starters the same for next year. No need to upgrade them because "they ain't broke". We're winning right? I'm not buying that. We won Super Bowl XLIII in spite of our OL. And we continue to win now in spite of Bruce.



I don't know about you but I like winning SB's and being in AFCCG's in spite of our OC.

Regardless of the OC Ben will pump, break the pocket and make things happen. Look how great Whiz's offense is in AZ without Warner.

The biggest problem I have with Arians is the lack of runs on the edge... but who knows how many of those plays are blown up due to the OL.

You hit the key issue about Arians on the head. Who really knows how good his offensive design is with the OL we have?

[AngryAsian]

I'm one of the biggest BA detractors... but if he helps gets us another ring, then I think he keeps his job. Does that mean he's my first choice as OC... still a resounding "no".

[proudpittsburgher]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

The Steelers were 3-1 without one of the best QB's in Super Bowl history. Just sayin. Now, i know that our defense played a HUGE role in those wins, but we are getting to the point with BA that unless we win a super bowl, and only win a super bowl, he should be fired? Really? AFC title game again isn't enough?

[costanza2k1]

Let's go get Cam Cameron! He seems to do an great job with loads of talent and adjusts well against any team he plays! He's a guru!

:stirpot :lol:

All propaganda, Ben likes him and Ben is boss. His 2 SB rings say so.

[proudpittsburgher]

Let's go get Cam Cameron! He seems to do an great job with loads of talent and adjusts well against any team he plays! He's a guru!

:stirpot :lol:

All propaganda, Ben likes him and Ben is boss. His 2 SB rings say so.

I guess that's my point, how many hotshot OC's are out there? We are going to knitpick anyone with a headset on, so why not just stick with what we have, knowing that it makes our QB happy?

[costanza2k1]

Let's go get Cam Cameron! He seems to do an great job with loads of talent and adjusts well against any team he plays! He's a guru!

:stirpot :lol:

All propaganda, Ben likes him and Ben is boss. His 2 SB rings say so.

I guess that's my point, how many hotshot OC's are out there? We are going to knitpick anyone with a headset on, so why not just stick with what we have, knowing that it makes our QB happy?

Sticking with what we have makes total sense. I often wonder why BA doesn't get credit for developing young WRs, developing the short passing game, and so on. I mean DL gets credit for putting our young defensive players in position to do well not their position coaches. I guess this is an argument that will never end as far as OC is concerned. I'm cool with whoever as long as we keep winning. If we roll out with a series of 5-11 seasons and our O sucks and the D tries to carry us, then we need changes. Until then, enjoy the ride...we all went through a long drought of NO SBs and now we are contending again!

Let's do this!
:tt2

[Starlifter]

it's a hard question to answer because at the end of the day we are all amateurs. the GM of the caps said it best during the road to the winter classic. "if we knew the game, we'd be in the game". great line. Regarding Bruce, I have my criticisms to be sure and I often wonder if our offense is successful because of BA or in spite of BA. A great QB can make a mediocre coach look awesome. Is phil jackson a great coach or did MJ and kobe carry the water? I don't want a new OC with a new system, I just want an innovator that keeps other teams guessing.

As I've pondered many times......how many interviews does BA get to be a head coach?

I believe that's people that DO know the game, commenting loud and clear on his skill.

[proudpittsburgher]

As I've pondered many times......how many interviews does BA get to be a head coach?

I believe that's people that DO know the game, commenting loud and clear on his skill.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I just think that sometimes it takes a special person to be a head coach and takes a different set of skillsets, at times. Take coach Lebeau, for example. He is a HOF coordinator. His coaching stint didn't work out too well. That doesn't make him a bad coach, just not head coach material. Mike Mularky as well. Did well as an OC in Pittsburgh, Atlanta, but his head coaching stint in Buffalo didn't work out. Guys like Hoodie are going to be successful as a coordinator, head coach, water boy, whatever they decide to do. I'm not sold, actually, I just don't think it's the case, that Coach Tomlin knows more about football than, say, coach Lebeau. Some people are meant to be the CEO, others are meant to be the workerbees. Make sense?

[costanza2k1]

We have to remember a good/great coordinator doesn't necessarily equal a good/great coach. A good coach needs to be a leader of men not a leader of x's and o's.

[papillon]

He's done what they asked him to do. His one weakness is predictability based on formation.

The Steeler offense hasn't been predictable for the last 4 weeks IMO. He has changed what their formations, included new players, even some of the blocking schemes seem different, the screen and delay game has looked serviceable, some quick plays to try and take advantage of Wallace's speed and I'm not sure this is on Arians, but Mendenhall is sticking his nose into the pile and trying to get whatever he can get when nothing is there. He's driving his legs through the whistle (that's how he scored the last TD against Baltimore).

Arians isn't going anywhere regardless of season outcome, IMO.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

it's a hard question to answer because at the end of the day we are all amateurs. the GM of the caps said it best during the road to the winter classic. "if we knew the game, we'd be in the game". great line. Regarding Bruce, I have my criticisms to be sure and I often wonder if our offense is successful because of BA or in spite of BA. A great QB can make a mediocre coach look awesome. Is phil jackson a great coach or did MJ and kobe carry the water? I don't want a new OC with a new system, I just want an innovator that keeps other teams guessing.

As I've pondered many times......how many interviews does BA get to be a head coach?

I believe that's people that DO know the game, commenting loud and clear on his skill.

but 90% of HC interviews our due to the previous coach getting fired...

it's a not for long league... we watched Denver hire a young OC guru and 2 years later they fire him and hire John Fox... 3 winning seasons and the worst record in football this year.

[feltdizz]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

The Steelers were 3-1 without one of the best QB's in Super Bowl history. Just sayin. Now, i know that our defense played a HUGE role in those wins, but we are getting to the point with BA that unless we win a super bowl, and only win a super bowl, he should be fired? Really? AFC title game again isn't enough?


Fans are delusional IMO... if he wins a 2nd SB maybe he can stay. LOL!!!

[costanza2k1]

i am of the opinion that Bruce Arian's play calling ability is somewhere in the "poor to average" range. The reason our offense succeeds is because we have one of the best QB's in NFL history. Ben bails Bruce out time and time again. When Bruce's plays don't work, Ben scrambles around and turn lemons into lemonade. That's not Bruce being a good OC. That's Ben being Ben. A few years ago, Bruce sat down with Ben and went through the playbook and asked him which plays he liked best. Those are now the plays that we use. Bruce doesn't look to expose our opponents weaknesses. He just calls what Ben feels comfortable with. We are winning because of the talent of our players. Not our OC.

The Steelers were 3-1 without one of the best QB's in Super Bowl history. Just sayin. Now, i know that our defense played a HUGE role in those wins, but we are getting to the point with BA that unless we win a super bowl, and only win a super bowl, he should be fired? Really? AFC title game again isn't enough?

Delusional? I thought that was very nice of us fans to allow him to stay. LOL


Fans are delusional IMO... if he wins a 2nd SB maybe he can stay. LOL!!!

[StarSpangledSteeler]

I guess I'll re-state my previous point...

Should we keep the OL the way it is? Should we keep Jonathon Scott at left tackle? Kemo at left guard? And Foster at right guard? After all, we made it to the AFCCG with those 5 guys! Those five guys have protected Ben well enough to win games right? Actually, no. He got his nose broken and his foot broken. But that doesn't matter because we're still winning. Right? Those five guys have opened good enough holes for Mendy right? Actually no. He gets hit in the backfield on half our plays and has to fight like a gladiator on three straight plays to get into the end zone on 1st and goal from the one. But that doesn't matter because we're still winning. Right? Just keep the OL the way it is. Don't draft any 1st or 2nd round OL upgrades. Pouncey didn't make us better at all. And neither would a top notch OC.

For any of you who want to keep our below average OC... I don't want to hear $hit from you come draft day on how to improve our team.

[Starlifter]

As I've pondered many times......how many interviews does BA get to be a head coach?

I believe that's people that DO know the game, commenting loud and clear on his skill.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I just think that sometimes it takes a special person to be a head coach and takes a different set of skillsets, at times. Take coach Lebeau, for example. He is a HOF coordinator. His coaching stint didn't work out too well. That doesn't make him a bad coach, just not head coach material. Mike Mularky as well. Did well as an OC in Pittsburgh, Atlanta, but his head coaching stint in Buffalo didn't work out. Guys like Hoodie are going to be successful as a coordinator, head coach, water boy, whatever they decide to do. I'm not sold, actually, I just don't think it's the case, that Coach Tomlin knows more about football than, say, coach Lebeau. Some people are meant to be the CEO, others are meant to be the workerbees. Make sense?

true enough. I know however those other guys you mentioned at least had a shot at NFL head coach. BA has only been a HC in college for 5 years at temple. pretty dismal record too for his time there. Maybe that was enough to convince the pro's he's no better than a coordinator.

I guess back to the original question. I agree with pappy these last few weeks. I think the offense has been well balanced and cleverly designed. I think regardless of how the year turns out, he'll be back in 2011.

[feltdizz]

I guess I'll re-state my previous point...

Should we keep the OL the way it is? Should we keep Jonathon Scott at left tackle? Kemo at left guard? And Foster at right guard? After all, we made it to the AFCCG with those 5 guys! Those five guys have protected Ben well enough to win games right? Actually, no. He got his nose broken and his foot broken. But that doesn't matter because we're still winning. Right? Those five guys have opened good enough holes for Mendy right? Actually no. He gets hit in the backfield on half our plays and has to fight like a gladiator on three straight plays to get into the end zone on 1st and goal from the one. But that doesn't matter because we're still winning. Right? Just keep the OL the way it is. Don't draft any 1st or 2nd round OL upgrades. Pouncey didn't make us better at all. And neither would a top notch OC.

For any of you who want to keep our below average OC... I don't want to hear $hit from you come draft day on how to improve our team.

how about drafting OL? :lol:

Seems like most of your frustration is with the OL...

I understand what you are trying to say but I think it's hard to get traction when the team is 1 game from going to their second SB in 3 years. How much better can we get? Winning every game by 20 points and losing in the first game of the playoffs? Nah...

I like where Ben is as a QB right now... and I'm smart enough to know he will always get hit because that is his style. Last week he could have slid after gaining 7 yards but he fought for 1 more... he always will and while it's frustrating at times I love knowing that regardless of the hits our QB won't b!tch up when he hears footsteps.

Here is the thing... Ben loves BA. So all these post about BA being an idiot really shows how much they really respect Ben as a student of the game.

[feltdizz]

I guess I'll re-state my previous point...

Should we keep the OL the way it is? Should we keep Jonathon Scott at left tackle? Kemo at left guard? And Foster at right guard? After all, we made it to the AFCCG with those 5 guys! Those five guys have protected Ben well enough to win games right? Actually, no. He got his nose broken and his foot broken. But that doesn't matter because we're still winning. Right? Those five guys have opened good enough holes for Mendy right? Actually no. He gets hit in the backfield on half our plays and has to fight like a gladiator on three straight plays to get into the end zone on 1st and goal from the one. But that doesn't matter because we're still winning. Right? Just keep the OL the way it is. Don't draft any 1st or 2nd round OL upgrades. Pouncey didn't make us better at all. And neither would a top notch OC.

For any of you who want to keep our below average OC... I don't want to hear $hit from you come draft day on how to improve our team.

how about drafting OL? :lol:

Seems like most of your frustration is with the OL...

I understand what you are trying to say but I think it's hard to get traction when the team is 1 game from going to their second SB in 3 years. How much better can we get? Winning every game by 20 points and losing in the first game of the playoffs? Nah...

I like where Ben is as a QB right now... and I'm smart enough to know he will always get hit because that is his style. Last week he could have slid after gaining 7 yards but he fought for 1 more... he always will and while it's frustrating at times I love knowing that regardless of the hits our QB won't b!tch up when he hears footsteps.

Here is the thing... Ben loves BA. So all these post about BA being an idiot really shows how much they really respect Ben as a student of the game.

[NorthCoast]

Arians' offense has cracked the top 10 only once. Most of the time we are in the middle of the pack. Do you think we have middle of the pack talent? maybe on OL, but the skill positions are stacked. We should be better on offense....

[steelfin]

Of course, BA was a big part of the defense holding the Ravens to 126 total yards...

[Crash]

Arians' offense has cracked the top 10 only once.

People hated that offense, we passed too much.

Remember?

[steelfin]

Arians' offense has cracked the top 10 only once.

People hated that offense, we passed too much.

Remember?

I am trying to remember....Did we win the SB that year? How did that work out for us?

[SteelTorch]

Arians' offense has cracked the top 10 only once.

People hated that offense, we passed too much.

Remember?

I am trying to remember....Did we win the SB that year? How did that work out for us?
We didn't win that year cause the offense was inefficient, and our defense dropped the ball. Not any more complicated than that.

[feltdizz]

Arians' offense has cracked the top 10 only once.

People hated that offense, we passed too much.

Remember?

I am trying to remember....Did we win the SB that year? How did that work out for us?
We didn't win that year cause the offense was inefficient, and our defense dropped the ball. Not any more complicated than that.

I have no idea why it's so important to have top 10 stats on offense. It's obvious our FO is more concerned with D and skill positions over OL.

IMO it is working and we are a game away from our 2nd SB in 3 years... I'll take that over San Diego stats and missing the playoffs.

[SteelTorch]

I have no idea why it's so important to have top 10 stats on offense. It's obvious our FO is more concerned with D and skill positions over OL.

IMO it is working and we are a game away from our 2nd SB in 3 years... I'll take that over San Diego stats and missing the playoffs.
It is important to have top ten stats in certain areas of the offense. How the players play affects how the game turns out, thus how the stats turn out. We owe the majority of our recent success to a great D and a great quarterback. I'd explain further, but I know I'd only be wasting my time with you.

[Crash]

In fact, the last two times the Steelers had a top 10 offense they missed the playoffs.

[Irongut]

In fact, the last two times the Steelers had a top 10 offense they missed the playoffs.

That's right. This team has always lived and died with the defense.

[feltdizz]

I have no idea why it's so important to have top 10 stats on offense. It's obvious our FO is more concerned with D and skill positions over OL.

IMO it is working and we are a game away from our 2nd SB in 3 years... I'll take that over San Diego stats and missing the playoffs.
It is important to have top ten stats in certain areas of the offense. How the players play affects how the game turns out, thus how the stats turn out. We owe the majority of our recent success to a great D and a great quarterback. I'd explain further, but I know I'd only be wasting my time with you.

our WR's are pretty good and the RB isn't that bad....

The Steelers have always had success due to a great D and clutch QB play.

[feltdizz]

In fact, the last two times the Steelers had a top 10 offense they missed the playoffs.

That's right. This team has always lived and died with the defense.


:Agree

[Crash]

Sure it has. That's why this team didn't win squat for 20 years until Dan pulled rank on Cowher.

[Irongut]

Sure it has. That's why this team didn't win squat for 20 years until Dan pulled rank on Cowher.

Pulled rank? :lol: