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flippy
01-03-2011, 10:24 AM
Redman averages 4.8 ypc to Mendy's 3.9 ypc.

And Redman runs in predictable short yardage situations where defenses are loading up to stop him.

Why doesn't Redman get more carries? Especially in the Red Zone where we've had struggles over the course of the season.

I know I may be in the minority here, but I think Redman can be a better back than Mendy if given a legit chance.

CanadianSteel
01-03-2011, 10:47 AM
Add me to the list of people that have been saying Red should be getting more carries. Guy has produced at a high level. but to have a Red vs Mendy debate is a little far fetched IMO. Our Oline makes Mendy look bad at times, but the guy has real talent and great vision. Red is a "can't find a hole, make a hole" type runner. LOVE that style but can he last with an increased work load? Who knows, all i know is i want Red to take them carries away from Moore.

Oviedo
01-03-2011, 11:00 AM
Are we really going to have a discussion insinuating that Redman is a better back than Mendy? Really?

That is such a ridiculous notion, I'll opt out now!!!!

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 11:34 AM
Are we really going to have a discussion insinuating that Redman is a better back than Mendy? Really?

That is such a ridiculous notion, I'll opt out now!!!!

I think it's more of a "why isn't Redman getting more touches" discussion.

flippy
01-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Are we really going to have a discussion insinuating that Redman is a better back than Mendy? Really?

That is such a ridiculous notion, I'll opt out now!!!!

3.9 ypc for a season is barely successful by NFL standards.

I'll give Mendy the edge on catching the ball, speed, and spin move over Redman.

But Redman consistently hits the hole harder and faster and moves forward versus dancing sideways.

Redman's been more effective on average when given a chance. And teams know for sure when Redman is running the ball, so he should be less effective on average.

And Mendy's been the redzone back all season. An area where we've struggled.

I know the general consensus is Mendy is great. But is he really? I just think the fans tend to overrate him.

flippy
01-03-2011, 11:41 AM
Are we really going to have a discussion insinuating that Redman is a better back than Mendy? Really?

That is such a ridiculous notion, I'll opt out now!!!!

I think it's more of a "why isn't Redman getting more touches" discussion.

exactly. plus it's a different running style teams have to deal with.

pick6
01-03-2011, 11:42 AM
Mendy just needs to choose win to do that stop and go move that he does at the line. Sometimes he needs to just take the 3 yards. And yeaterday when he got stood up by browns safety Adams was because he stopped and gave the initiative to Adams. He's got to give all db's the business. He is a little soft but he's trying to snap out of it. But I like Mendy because he can go house any time and he is versatile with good hands ( although we don't use it enough, arrrrrggghhhh).

RuthlessBurgher
01-03-2011, 11:47 AM
The notion that Redman is our short yardage and goal line running specialist is a myth.

Mendenhall had 13 touchdowns this season, all on the ground.

Redman had 2 touchdowns this season, both on receptions.

Redman has been used recently as a sidecar in shotgun situations, and has gained yardage on the ground on draw plays, which is the opposite of predictable short yardage situations.

Djfan
01-03-2011, 11:47 AM
Imagine them together in a two back set. I hate the thought of getting rid of Speath to accomplish this!! (insert sarcasm icon here).

If I saw it correctly, on Mendy's second touchdown he had a lead blocker in the backfield, slightly offset. It works. Do it.

Crash
01-03-2011, 11:50 AM
Thats silly. Redman is what he is, a short yardage bruising back. He should be getting MOORE's carries.

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 11:55 AM
Thats silly. Redman is what he is, a short yardage bruising back. He should be getting MOORE's carries.

he is more than that... he is great after the catch and has shown the ability to get to the second level with ease when the OL blocks.

He is much more than a bruising RB... he should have had at least 3X the amount of touches he has had this season IMO.

Those games where Mend had 30+ touches should have been 20+ touches and the others should have gone to Redman.

I have no idea why we have been so stubborn with his talent.

ikestops85
01-03-2011, 12:13 PM
I have no idea why we have been so stubborn with his talent.

I think it is the stigma of a 1st round draft choice vs. an undrafted FA. I am not going to say that Redman is better than Mendy but I certainly think Redman should be getting the ball more often than he currently is.

I will defend Mendy in the same way I always defended FWP. If the O-line consistently lets the defense penetrate into the backfield it's hard for the back to generate any momentum. That's why it seems like Mendy is dancing.

I think we have a good 2 back system with Mendenhall and Redman. We just need Arians to utilize it properly. :roll:

Maybe BA made a New Years resolution. :wink:

aggiebones
01-03-2011, 01:40 PM
Let's remember both are rather young. Mendy is still learning his craft too. He has a MUCH higher ceiling in my mind though I've been one of those highest on Redman since early on taking a bit of abuse for it. I think Ike has a pretty high ceiling too, more than I originally thought, just not as high as Mendy. Both are big and have good hands and are tough. I think Ike gets a bit more in tough situations, but Mendy has big speed wheels while also being able to get forward for yards.

NEVER, I repeat never compare rushing averages when comparing players. Ike does run alot in short yardage and does surprisingly well getting 4 yards when 1 is needed. But lets not forget he gets more garbage time and only has 4 carries a game. Mendy has alot more work to do in a game. He has much more responsibility. He ate alot of yards with Ben out and behind a battered OL.
I agree Redman should get more work, not sure why he is being held down. It isn't smart to burn out Mendy in 5 years, when Redman will be a strong backup with 8-10 touches. Many teams do well mixing in different backs.
We'll see how things go from here.

Crash
01-03-2011, 01:42 PM
Maybe we can get Bettis out of retirement too?

CanadianSteel
01-03-2011, 01:51 PM
Could be a stamina issue with Red. Moore has been great for us, but it's Red's turn to shine now IMO, give him more carries and have Mendy stay in on 3rd down. Bye bye Moore

steelblood
01-03-2011, 02:01 PM
NEVER, I repeat never compare rushing averages when comparing players. Ike does run alot in short yardage and does surprisingly well getting 4 yards when 1 is needed. But lets not forget he gets more garbage time and only has 4 carries a game. Mendy has alot more work to do in a game. He has much more responsibility. He ate alot of yards with Ben out and behind a battered OL. .

Mendy averaged about 4.5 yards per carry without Ben. He's averaged about 3.7 with him. Some of this has to do with the Oline and injuries. But, generally, I'm not sure why we don't run better with Ben in the game.

ScoreKeeper
01-03-2011, 02:15 PM
The problem with Mendy's average per carry numbers is....he runs for a 30-40 yarder, then has 15 carries for 10 yards. Our running game eats ****.

Snatch98
01-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Redman better than Mendenhall? Mendenhall is carrying the load and Redman isn't. Give Redman more carries and he dwindles as the game goes on and becomes less successful. Part of the reason he is so successful in those situations is because his legs are fresh. He's in no way, shape or form a better back than Mendenhall and his role as currently outlined shouldn't be changed. He's excelling in that role and Mendenhall is dealing with Arians and his predictable play calling.

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 02:19 PM
The problem with Mendy's average per carry numbers is....he runs for a 30-40 yarder, then has 15 carries for 10 yards. Our running game eats bad word.

part of the problem is Mendy. The guy is looking for the 30 yard run on a 4 yarder.

We also need to stop running just to run. Pass like crazy and then run. The numbers will be ugly but the result will be similar to the 41 to 9 win we just had.

CanadianSteel
01-03-2011, 02:21 PM
This year Mendy had 324 carries (4th in NFL), 1273 yards (7th in NFL) and 13 TDs (2nd in NFL)

Redman has 52 career carries under his belt. Truth is we don't know what he is capable of at this point. But his future looks bright.

I think the question is why are so many of you down on Mendy? Almost 1300 yards and 13 TDs, i'll take that.

YPC is over rated IMO, I didn't hear many people complaining that Bettis was never a 5 ypc back.


324 carries is just to many in this day and age in the NFL. It's not like the year is over, we have a 2nd season to play!!

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 02:22 PM
Redman better than Mendenhall? Mendenhall is carrying the load and Redman isn't. Give Redman more carries and he dwindles as the game goes on and becomes less successful. Part of the reason he is so successful in those situations is because his legs are fresh. He's in no way, shape or form a better back than Mendenhall and his role as currently outlined shouldn't be changed. He's excelling in that role and Mendenhall is dealing with Arians and his predictable play calling.

I don't think anyone said Redman is better than Mendenhall. What if we shared the load more and both legs were fresh? What amazing play calling is Redman getting that gets him 4.8ypc?

I think most of us see the obvious... Mend is shifty and able to break off long runs but Redman is a beast at turning a 1 yard gain into a 5 yard gain when everyone knows he is getting the ball.

Use both... and watch them flourish.

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 02:23 PM
This year Mendy had 324 carries (4th in NFL), 1273 yards (7th in NFL) and 13 TDs (2nd in NFL)

Redman has 52 career carries under his belt. Truth is we don't know what he is capable of at this point. But his future looks bright.

I think the question is why are so many of you down on Mendy? Almost 1300 yards and 13 TDs, i'll take that.

YPC is over rated IMO, I didn't hear many people complaining that Bettis was never a 5 ypc back.


324 carries is just to many in this day and age in the NFL. It's not like the year is over, we have a 2nd season to play!!

I'm not down on Mendy but with 324 carries you get to critique his game much easier than Redman. We like Mendy.. but like you stated, 324 is too many so give some to Redman.

I would rather see Mend with 275 for 1200 and Redman with 50 more carries for another 200+

I think spreading those carries would help both and also cause nightmares for the D.

Stewie
01-03-2011, 03:08 PM
I have advocated since preseason for Redman to get more carries. I would like him to take ALL of Mwelde's carries and some of Mendy's. Mwelde, is a so-so blocker; Redman got the award in the backs-on-backers drill in TC. Mwelde goes down with the first hit; Ike doesn't.

As for Mendy, he's got good feet, but he dances waaaay too much and he doesn't always run smart, i.e., appropriate to the game situation. With the score tied or the Steelers behind, yards are precious. I want a back who hits the hole yesterday with bad intentions; not a dancer. I also don't like some of Mendy's fundamentals. On his long run against Cleveland, for example, he nicely avoided Scott's missed man; but then he ran left swinging the ball in his right hand. When he encountered opposition, he couldn't straightarm; he stopped! Then he spun, and got no yds. after contact. Redman is more of an aggressive runner. I would like to see them in the backfield TOGETHER. There are many possibilities from that set, even in the passing game. Who is going to flare, and who is going to block?

Irongut
01-03-2011, 03:20 PM
Are we really going to have a discussion insinuating that Redman is a better back than Mendy? Really?

That is such a ridiculous notion, I'll opt out now!!!!

I think it's more of a "why isn't Redman getting more touches" discussion.
Because our offense has been inconsitent to sucky most of the year. I'm sure if we played the lowlifes of the league like the Panthers and Browns each week, he'd get more mop up duties.

CanadianSteel
01-03-2011, 03:56 PM
I have advocated since preseason for Redman to get more carries. I would like him to take ALL of Mwelde's carries and some of Mendy's. Mwelde, is a so-so blocker; Redman got the award in the backs-on-backers drill in TC. Mwelde goes down with the first hit; Ike doesn't.

As for Mendy, he's got good feet, but he dances waaaay too much and he doesn't always run smart, i.e., appropriate to the game situation. With the score tied or the Steelers behind, yards are precious. I want a back who hits the hole yesterday with bad intentions; not a dancer. I also don't like some of Mendy's fundamentals. On his long run against Cleveland, for example, he nicely avoided Scott's missed man; but then he ran left swinging the ball in his right hand. When he encountered opposition, he couldn't straightarm; he stopped! Then he spun, and got no yds. after contact. Redman is more of an aggressive runner. I would like to see them in the backfield TOGETHER. There are many possibilities from that set, even in the passing game. Who is going to flare, and who is going to block?




Are we really at this point already? I swear i could delete Mendys name and put in FWP and nobody would know the difference. Are we really sitting here and pointing out what Mendy did wrong ON A LONG RUN??? How about if i said something like " On the 56 yard TD to Wallace, Wallace should have gave a double move before the post" lol.

I think we as Steeler fans expect just a bit to much sometimes. Myself INC

But i agree with the Mendy/Red backfield. I still think it's a stamina issue with Red or that Moore really is Tomlins "Boy"

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 03:57 PM
I have advocated since preseason for Redman to get more carries. I would like him to take ALL of Mwelde's carries and some of Mendy's. Mwelde, is a so-so blocker; Redman got the award in the backs-on-backers drill in TC. Mwelde goes down with the first hit; Ike doesn't.

As for Mendy, he's got good feet, but he dances waaaay too much and he doesn't always run smart, i.e., appropriate to the game situation. With the score tied or the Steelers behind, yards are precious. I want a back who hits the hole yesterday with bad intentions; not a dancer. I also don't like some of Mendy's fundamentals. On his long run against Cleveland, for example, he nicely avoided Scott's missed man; but then he ran left swinging the ball in his right hand. When he encountered opposition, he couldn't straightarm; he stopped! Then he spun, and got no yds. after contact. Redman is more of an aggressive runner. I would like to see them in the backfield TOGETHER. There are many possibilities from that set, even in the passing game. Who is going to flare, and who is going to block?

I've seen a ton of players with the ball in the wrong hand on the sideline. Mend should be stiff arming guys left and right but he usually has the ball in the wrong hand.

Just seems like something all the coaches are OK with because I have seen the best players in the league do it multiple times.

feltdizz
01-03-2011, 04:00 PM
I have advocated since preseason for Redman to get more carries. I would like him to take ALL of Mwelde's carries and some of Mendy's. Mwelde, is a so-so blocker; Redman got the award in the backs-on-backers drill in TC. Mwelde goes down with the first hit; Ike doesn't.

As for Mendy, he's got good feet, but he dances waaaay too much and he doesn't always run smart, i.e., appropriate to the game situation. With the score tied or the Steelers behind, yards are precious. I want a back who hits the hole yesterday with bad intentions; not a dancer. I also don't like some of Mendy's fundamentals. On his long run against Cleveland, for example, he nicely avoided Scott's missed man; but then he ran left swinging the ball in his right hand. When he encountered opposition, he couldn't straightarm; he stopped! Then he spun, and got no yds. after contact. Redman is more of an aggressive runner. I would like to see them in the backfield TOGETHER. There are many possibilities from that set, even in the passing game. Who is going to flare, and who is going to block?




Are we really at this point already? I swear i could delete Mendys name and put in FWP and nobody would know the difference. Are we really sitting here and pointing out what Mendy did wrong ON A LONG RUN??? How about if i said something like " On the 56 yard TD to Wallace, Wallace should have gave a double move before the post" lol.

I think we as Steeler fans expect just a bit to much sometimes. Myself INC

I don't think anyone wants to bench Mendy or trade him.... but it's also obvious on most of Mends long runs he doesn't have the ball in the correct hand.

It's nit picking but it's also a position that has a short shelf life and I want to see Mend in our backfield for as long as possible.

Stewie
01-03-2011, 08:27 PM
It wasn't just the ball in the worng hand. There were two more fundamental errors on that play alone. One, he was SWINGING the ball. Two, He stopped. Some coaches tolerate the wrong hand if the RB has a stronger side. I disagree. Watch AP.

NorthCoast
01-03-2011, 08:43 PM
The problem with Mendy's average per carry numbers is....he runs for a 30-40 yarder, then has 15 carries for 10 yards. Our running game eats bad word.

part of the problem is Mendy. The guy is looking for the 30 yard run on a 4 yarder.

We also need to stop running just to run. Pass like crazy and then run. The numbers will be ugly but the result will be similar to the 41 to 9 win we just had.

I agree feltdizz. Mendy is always looking for that gaping hole that only happens on maybe 1/4 of attempts. The other 3/4 attempts the holes have to be made by the runner. That's what Redman has a knack for. Sometime when I get a little time, I would like to see what the league statistics look like for median yds/attempt for RBs. This may be a much truer measure of how good a runner is by decreasing the influence of the occasional break-aways a runner like Mendy might have. I don't want to discount them completely but having one in a game typically does not change the outcome (unless it's in the Superbowl...).

Djfan
01-04-2011, 02:42 AM
The problem with Mendy's average per carry numbers is....he runs for a 30-40 yarder, then has 15 carries for 10 yards. Our running game eats bad word.

part of the problem is Mendy. The guy is looking for the 30 yard run on a 4 yarder.

We also need to stop running just to run. Pass like crazy and then run. The numbers will be ugly but the result will be similar to the 41 to 9 win we just had.

I agree feltdizz. Mendy is always looking for that gaping hole that only happens on maybe 1/4 of attempts. The other 3/4 attempts the holes have to be made by the runner. That's what Redman has a knack for. Sometime when I get a little time, I would like to see what the league statistics look like for median yds/attempt for RBs. This may be a much truer measure of how good a runner is by decreasing the influence of the occasional break-aways a runner like Mendy might have. I don't want to discount them completely but having one in a game typically does not change the outcome (unless it's in the Superbowl...).

This shows why Redman might be a good second back on the field with Mendy - he creates holes.

Shawn
01-04-2011, 11:32 AM
I agree Redman should get more carries. I can't agree that he is a better back. Mendenhall has it all...except an adequate line. I can't take ypc as a serious measuring stick until I see it over many many carries done in similar rushing situations.

CanadianSteel
01-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Moore 2010 Carries 33 Yards 99 YPC 3.0
2009 Carries 35 Yards 118 YPC 3.4

Redman 2010 Carries 52 Yards 242 YPC 4.8

I think the real question should be Moore vs Redman. Again love what Moore has done for us as a 3rd down back, but i just think he is a wasted roster spot. Mendy has great hands, keep him in on 3rd down and give Red some of Mendys carries to offset the workload.

feltdizz
01-04-2011, 04:45 PM
Moore 2010 Carries 33 Yards 99 YPC 3.0
2009 Carries 35 Yards 118 YPC 3.4

Redman 2010 Carries 52 Yards 242 YPC 4.8

I think the real question should be Moore vs Redman. Again love what Moore has done for us as a 3rd down back, but i just think he is a wasted roster spot. Mendy has great hands, keep him in on 3rd down and give Red some of Mendys carries to offset the workload.


since Redman got 52 touches to Moore's 33 and 35 the last 2 years I think it's safe to say Redman>Moore

I still want Redman to get 100+ next year... and at least 30 more this year

ikestops85
01-04-2011, 04:50 PM
I've got an idea. Let's take away Mendy's 2 longest runs in each game and then see what his ypc is. It's probably somewhere around FWP's. :stirpot :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
01-04-2011, 04:55 PM
I've got an idea. Let's take away Mendy's 2 longest runs in each game and then see what his ypc is. It's probably somewhere around FWP's. :stirpot :lol:

Just imagine if we took away Wallace's 2 longest catches each game. He would REALLY suck! :lol: