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Dee Dub
12-30-2010, 03:40 PM
..and behind the offensive line that Bradshaw had in the 70’s, how many Super Bowls would he have? This is no knock on the defenses that Ben has played on the same team with, but I don’t think there are many Steeler fans who would argue that the Curtain was the greatest, most dominate defense of all-time. And that O-line in the 70’s was far superior to anything Ben has had in his brief career. I think he would surely have at least 3 Super Bowl championships at this point. Maybe 4.

And with this in mind I personally think that in just a matter of weeks, Ben Roethlisberger will become the GREATEST PITTSBURGH STEELER ever.

When he wins number 3 in February, with all things considered, I don’t think there will be any questions about it. And this will be years ahead of when he will own every Steeler passing record there is.

fezziwig
12-30-2010, 03:44 PM
If Ben played in the 70's we would have probably had five or six Super Bowls in the 70's.

If Ben played in the 90's under Cowher I see us getting one / two at least more SB wins.

Ben means that much to this team.

Dee Dub
12-30-2010, 03:51 PM
If Ben played in the 70's we would have probably had five or six Super Bowls in the 70's.

If Ben played in the 90's under Cowher I see us getting one / two at least more SB wins.

Ben means that much to this team.

Yep! And here is another way to look at what Ben means to this franchise and him as being the Greatest Steeler ever….

Without Ben the Steelers are one of the best franchise in the history of the NFL with 4 Super Bowl wins. With Ben the Steelers have 6 Super Bowl wins and are the elite franchise in the NFL head and shoulders above any other.

See the difference?

Sugar
12-30-2010, 03:58 PM
Ben would have been as big as some D-linemen from that period. Terry Bradshaw was considered a big QB back then and Ben has two inches and 30lbs on him.

ScoreKeeper
12-30-2010, 04:25 PM
Hard to tell. We've never seen Ben behind an O-line that gives him time. He might be a complete bust with time to think back there. :lol:

sd steel
12-30-2010, 06:31 PM
Hard to say, Terry called all of his own plays, and he spread the ball evenly to the backs and the receivers. He knew when to check down and when to call a run play. Terry was basically the on the field OC. Thats why I get a kick out of everyone always proclaiming how "dumb" he was. Terry's arm was probably stronger than Ben's even being smaller, and he was faster than Ben. It took time for Terry to mature in the league, and he had to battle Gilliam and Hanratty for the position, Ben was so much better than anyone else on the team once Maddox got injured it was handed to him.

Terrys spirals seem to be much tighter and he never played from the shotgun position so his footwork was much better. He also threw a better long ball than Ben. But he also didn't have to contend with the specialization of position players or the "new look" defenses that Ben sees regularly. And to say that Terry was successful just because of the Steel Curtain, I think Ben has basically had about the same type of defensive support comparatively, (although the defenses werent the Steel Curtain of the 70's he normally has played with a top 5 defense his whole career. Also for a majority of the first 7 or 8 years of Terry's career the Mel Blount rule was not in effect, and they didn't start really protecting QB's until the late 70's, so Terry took a ton of cheapshots, so Ben has that going for him as well.

The things that they both have in common was they are both winners who really probably will never get the recognition that they deserve because they didn't and don't put up huge stats.


Have you been drinking out of Crash's glass again Deedub?

birtikidis
12-30-2010, 06:52 PM
I think ben is a tough qb, but if he played back then, he'd never be healthy enough to be on the field. Think he takes cheap shots now?
oh and we'd have 4 superbowls.

Notleadpoisoned
12-30-2010, 07:43 PM
Ben would have been as big as some D-linemen from that period. Terry Bradshaw was considered a big QB back then and Ben has two inches and 30lbs on him.
It would be kind of strange to watch Big Ben take snaps from a little 6'1 255lb center too.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-30-2010, 08:14 PM
I don't know...if you take Terry Bradshaw and put him on the 2003-2010 Steelers with today's rules, he might have come up with a 40-TD season and at least three Super Bowl victories by now. Who knows?

papillon
12-30-2010, 08:16 PM
Obviously, there's no way to tell and as fans we all have our prejudices one way or another. Ben and Terry play football in a very similar way and the Steelers would still have been the team of the 70s with Ben or with Terry.

The number of Super Bowls is impossible to determine. The Steelers of the 70s would have been very, very good with Ben as well as with Terry.

Pappy

Dee Dub
12-30-2010, 09:03 PM
Uhhhhhhhhhhh…guys…this isn’t a Ben versus Terry thread. This is simply pointing out the obvious….If Ben had played with that dominate defense of the 70’S and he had an O-line as talented as that one in the 70’s, Ben would have at least 3 Super Bowl rings and maybe even 4 by now. And in my opinion…when he get his next ring he becomes the Greatest Pittsburgh Steeler in the history of the franchise.

This thread was to get some to understand just how great Ben is with less. And where he really stands on that All-time Steeler list. In a couple of weeks he just may be the Greatest ever.

papillon
12-30-2010, 09:54 PM
Uhhhhhhhhhhh…guys…this isn’t a Ben versus Terry thread. This is simply pointing out the obvious….If Ben had played with that dominate defense of the 70’S and he had an O-line as talented as that one in the 70’s, Ben would have at least 3 Super Bowl rings and maybe even 4 by now. And in my opinion…when he get his next ring he becomes the Greatest Pittsburgh Steeler in the history of the franchise.

This thread was to get some to understand just how great Ben is with less. And where he really stands on that All-time Steeler list. In a couple of weeks he just may be the Greatest ever.

I think we're giving the offensive line of the 70s more credit than they were good. Except for Webster who is typically in the discussion of GOAT I don't know that the following players are any better than the lines Ben has played with.

Sam Davis
Gordon Gravelle
Bruce Van Dyke
Gerry Mullins
Jon Kolb
Glen Ray Hines
Ray Pinney
Larry Brown
Jim Clack
Ray Mansfield

versus

Starks
Kemo
Pouncey
Foster
Adams
Colon
Hartings
Hartwig
Faneca
Marvel smith

And the defense that Ben has played with has been in the top 5 every year except one I believe. So, Ben has played with some great defenses of the day, the same as Terry in his day.

Pappy

birtikidis
12-30-2010, 10:12 PM
Shh pap, some people re convinced that we win despite our defense.

sd steel
12-30-2010, 11:14 PM
Uhhhhhhhhhhh…guys…this isn’t a Ben versus Terry thread. This is simply pointing out the obvious….If Ben had played with that dominate defense of the 70’S and he had an O-line as talented as that one in the 70’s, Ben would have at least 3 Super Bowl rings and maybe even 4 by now. And in my opinion…when he get his next ring he becomes the Greatest Pittsburgh Steeler in the history of the franchise.

This thread was to get some to understand just how great Ben is with less. And where he really stands on that All-time Steeler list. In a couple of weeks he just may be the Greatest ever.

So does that mean if Terry and the 70 offensive line and Steel Curtain were in their prime playing today they could have 5 or 6 Super Bowl's in the 2000's, with Terry being the onfield OC and all?

Sugar
12-30-2010, 11:40 PM
I think ben is a tough qb, but if he played back then, he'd never be healthy enough to be on the field. Think he takes cheap shots now?
oh and we'd have 4 superbowls.

Ben would be taking those shots from many times smaller and slower guys. He'd be easily as healthy as now if not moreso. He'd certainly be able to view the field better as the average size of the O-linemen at that time was a couple of inches shorter. Also, if people marvel at his "escapability" now, then imagine how he'd throw off the smaller guys of that era.

birtikidis
12-31-2010, 12:43 AM
I think ben is a tough qb, but if he played back then, he'd never be healthy enough to be on the field. Think he takes cheap shots now?
oh and we'd have 4 superbowls.

Ben would be taking those shots from many times smaller and slower guys. He'd be easily as healthy as now if not moreso. He'd certainly be able to view the field better as the average size of the O-linemen at that time was a couple of inches shorter. Also, if people marvel at his "escapability" now, then imagine how he'd throw off the smaller guys of that era.
sure they were smaller but they were a lot nastier. also it wasn't a big deal to hit a guy in the head, face or anywhere for that matter.

Sugar
12-31-2010, 02:24 AM
I think ben is a tough qb, but if he played back then, he'd never be healthy enough to be on the field. Think he takes cheap shots now?
oh and we'd have 4 superbowls.

Ben would be taking those shots from many times smaller and slower guys. He'd be easily as healthy as now if not moreso. He'd certainly be able to view the field better as the average size of the O-linemen at that time was a couple of inches shorter. Also, if people marvel at his "escapability" now, then imagine how he'd throw off the smaller guys of that era.
sure they were smaller but they were a lot nastier. also it wasn't a big deal to hit a guy in the head, face or anywhere for that matter.

I have a feeling Ben would be a lot nastier too. :wink:

fezziwig
12-31-2010, 10:10 AM
Ben would have been as big as some D-linemen from that period. Terry Bradshaw was considered a big QB back then and Ben has two inches and 30lbs on him.


Different times, different training different makeup of players and teams. I still say if our 70's guys were to come together as a team now they, would be the current sizes because they would be conditioned to be that size.
To me people now a days are bigger than the past.

These players today eat differently, better have been more conditioned from the start as of highschool if they show any promise at all.

I believe these players and especially linemen are having diets that keep them bulked. If you seen Jeff Hartings today you would never think he played o-line or even football. The guy lost all his mass.

Dee Dub
12-31-2010, 12:19 PM
I think we're giving the offensive line of the 70s more credit than they were good. Except for Webster who is typically in the discussion of GOAT I don't know that the following players are any better than the lines Ben has played with.

Sam Davis
Gordon Gravelle
Bruce Van Dyke
Gerry Mullins
Jon Kolb
Glen Ray Hines
Ray Pinney
Larry Brown
Jim Clack
Ray Mansfield

versus

Starks
Kemo
Pouncey
Foster
Adams
Colon
Hartings
Hartwig
Faneca
Marvel smith

And the defense that Ben has played with has been in the top 5 every year except one I believe. So, Ben has played with some great defenses of the day, the same as Terry in his day.

Pappy

You must not have seen many Steeler games back then. Kolb and Brown were solid tackles and Sam Davis and Moon Mullins were no slouches at guard. That group with Webster is by far the best and most talented offensive line the Steelers have ever had.

And a top 5 defense is a far cry from the Greatest Defense the NFL has ever seen. Pap, there is a difference.

Dee Dub
12-31-2010, 12:26 PM
Shh pap, some people re convinced that we win despite our defense.

Psssst….how many championships did the Steelers win between 1994-2004…when in many years the Steelers were ranked either with the number 1 defense or at least top 5? And along with it many times also being the top ranked rushing team in the NFL. How many? What?? You say none??! That’s what I thought bursitis.

Defense is great but this team has won two Super Bowls in the past 30 years because of one reason----------------having a franchise quarterback named Ben Roethlisberger.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-31-2010, 10:08 PM
Shh pap, some people re convinced that we win despite our defense.

Psssst….how many championships did the Steelers win between 1994-2004…when in many years the Steelers were ranked either with the number 1 defense or at least top 5? And along with it many times also being the top ranked rushing team in the NFL. How many? What?? You say none??! That’s what I thought bursitis.

Defense is great but this team has won two Super Bowls in the past 30 years because of one reason----------------having a franchise quarterback named Ben Roethlisberger.


Solid D had nothing to do with winning those Super Bowls???

C'mon. We had BOTH a franchise QB AND solid D. Without either, we probably don't win those Lombardi's.

virgilbosetti
12-31-2010, 10:53 PM
I'll come out for this. Not trying to stir the pot, because I love Ben, and I have been around long enough to remember the 70's. My guess is the Steelers of the 70's would have won four or less with Ben behind Webster.

Most underestimate, don't remember, or never saw how good Bradshaw was. He called his own plays, took advantage of a great running game, and used the pass as a tremendously effective weapon. No offense to Ben....no pun intended, but Brad was too good to say Ben would have had more. JMO