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Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 07:42 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

SteelCzar76
12-28-2010, 08:10 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:


I'll just 'fade' the first Round for now Dub. (Though i like Ballard, Matthews and Hurd)

I like your thinking as your addressing need,...however i don't think any of the kids whom would be available at OT at the bottom of the first would be any serious upgrade over what we are looking at right now for the upcoming season. (It's a tough spot to fill IMO)

I personally feel as though once you get past the early 20's of any round your looking at the very best of kids with a grade that corresponds to the following round. And with that said,.. would you consider taking a Corner with a very high second round grade late in the first as opposed to a Lineman whom will likely end up just being a "Gritz project cannon fodder" player ? (Shouts out to Ruthless 8) :lol: )

Irongut
12-28-2010, 08:18 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:
Carimi was once thought of as a high first rounder. He's now slumped a bit but his stock will be cemented at the workouts. Teams will want to see his movement skills. If he's there, he'd make an excellent pick.

Adrian Clayborn is another one I am watching closely for the first round. An end tandem of Hood and Clayborn would be dynamite. Both can jump inside in nickel situations while Casey sits out. Cameron Heyward and Phil Taylor are two other DL that could be around the 25-40 range.

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 08:19 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:


I'll just 'fade' the first Round for now Dub. (Though i like Ballard, Matthews and Hurd)

I like your thinking as your addressing need,...however i don't think any of the kids whom would be available at OT at the bottom of the first would be any serious upgrade over what we are looking at right now for the upcoming season. (It's a tough spot to fill IMO)

I personally feel as though once you get past the early 20's of any round your looking at the very best of kids with a grade that corresponds to the following round. And with that said,.. would you consider taking a Corner with a very high second round grade late in the first as opposed to a Lineman whom will likely end up just being a "Gritz project cannon fodder" player ? (Shouts out to Ruthless 8) :lol: )

I agree with you. You know I have been pimping Ras-I Dowling for some time now. Had he not gotten hurt this year he's a lock for first round. I think he is now a late first to mid second rounder. And I would be totally ok with getting someone like him at the back end of round one.

jj28west
12-28-2010, 08:39 PM
Like the thought of a big body receiver that will challenge Sweed in the 4th round. This would be a nice complement to what is looking like an impressive receiver corps for years to come.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 08:40 PM
I like Dowling but not in the first. Second, third is more where I'd look for him.

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 09:00 PM
I like Dowling but not in the first. Second, third is more where I'd look for him.

I would take him at the end of round one. This is what you get when Dowling is healthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCHpKga3kk


Pretty much can do it all. Goes up after the ball at its highest point, can force the run inside, is physical, has ball skills, great size, and can blitz the QB.

I’ve said it before he is a lot like Antonio Cromartie physically but unlike Cromartie, he is physical in his play.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 09:06 PM
I like Dowling but not in the first. Second, third is more where I'd look for him.

I would take him at the end of round one. This is what you get when Dowling is healthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCHpKga3kk


Pretty much can do it all. Goes up after the ball at its highest point, can force the run inside, is physical, has ball skills, great size, and can blitz the QB.

I’ve said it before he is a lot like Antonio Cromartie physically but unlike Cromartie, he is physical in his play.
If Pouncey is there, I'd just take him to be honest. Put him in a RG and all we have to worry about is who will be RT.

I don't see Dowling going in the 1st round.

Pouncey

DeAndre McDaniels

Ras-I Dowling

Noel Devine

Henerey.

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 09:12 PM
I like Dowling but not in the first. Second, third is more where I'd look for him.

I would take him at the end of round one. This is what you get when Dowling is healthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCHpKga3kk


Pretty much can do it all. Goes up after the ball at its highest point, can force the run inside, is physical, has ball skills, great size, and can blitz the QB.

I’ve said it before he is a lot like Antonio Cromartie physically but unlike Cromartie, he is physical in his play.
If Pouncey is there, I'd just take him to be honest. Put him in a RG and all we have to worry about is who will be RT.

I don't see Dowling going in the 1st round.

Pouncey

DeAndre McDaniels

Ras-I Dowling

Noel Devine

Henerey.
I like this. Tired of slow, tree trunk, fat slobs playing guard when they can't even play their natural position of tackle.

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 09:13 PM
I don't see Dowling going in the 1st round.

You are probably right. That is what happens when you miss a significant part of your senior year to injury.

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 09:15 PM
I like this. Tired of slow, tree trunk, fat slobs playing guard when they can't even play their natural position of tackle.

I think anyone of the top 5 tackles in this draft (which includes Carimi and Love), can come right in and play at a high level at tackle in the NFL.

You must be thinking second round tackles... :wink:

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 09:16 PM
I like this. Tired of slow, tree trunk, fat slobs playing guard when they can't even play their natural position of tackle.

I think anyone of the top 5 tackles in this draft (which includes Carimi and Love), can come right in and play at a high level at tackle in the NFL.

You must be thinking second round tackles... :wink:
no i'm thinking of the worthless tackles we have on the team who are currently forced to play guard because we don't have a natural guard on the ROSTER to play the RG spot!

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 09:19 PM
Dub let me say this.
If we didn't need a guard so bad, and if there wasn't one (let alone two) guards that are very good in this draft, i would be all for drafting a tackle in the first round. but the fact of the matter is, we shuffle guys from the natural position of tackle (Essex, Foster etc) or Center (legursky) to have them play guard. is it too much to draft an actual guard? especially when you would be getting the best player at his positon. a guy that has a first round grade anyway. I'd also be all for getting Ras Dowling (in the second), but like you said, a guy who misses his entire senior season is gonna fall.

StarSpangledSteeler
12-28-2010, 09:30 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin



... i don't think any of the kids whom would be available at OT at the bottom of the first would be any serious upgrade over what we are looking at right now for the upcoming season.

(Don't take this personal, but I have to rant...)

Who exactly do we have this upcoming season? Colon is not on our roster, he is a FA. Are you counting on signing him? What kind of contract? A one year non-guaranteed "hope" he plays better than before the surgery kind of deal? 1/3 of all achillies injured athletes never return, the other 2/3 usually have limitations. (Look at what Troy's achillies is doing to him, and that's only sprained). Even in his prime, Colon (when fully healthy) was average at best. Are you suggesting a young healthy Carimi or Love is not an immediate upgrade in pass blocking over a 4th round pick, achillies tendon-ruptured, slow as hell, short armed, Colon? Love is just as strong as Colon (right now), and Carimi's technique is far better. Starks, when healthy, is adequate, but he will never, never, never even so much as sniff a pro-bowl. The assumption that he will make a full recovery (with no lingering side effects) is a big "if". We hoped for the same thing from Marvel Smith and Wayne Gandy after their surgeries but the same injuries continued to nag them. If Starks is less effective, or heaven forbid re-inujred, who exactly do we have on our roster to replace him? T. Essex? J. Scott? That is a huge gaping weakness that must be addressed early. What about Adams? We have him under contract for one more year. He is 35 years old (let me repeat that... 35 years old). He's one good ankle/knee getting "rolled up on" from IR. We actually have NOTHING secured for next year at OT. We have 3 stop gaps and one possibly recovered from surgery.

In a best case scenario, Starks returns healthy. Adams returns healthy, as an experienced back up. We draft Carimi or Love to start at RT, with an option of sliding to LT in the event of an injury. In a worse case scenario, Starks and Colon don't return to an adequate level and we start Scott and Adams. I FULLY support drafting either of those OT's in round one. Either of them would immediately give Ben more time to throw and can block on the second level for Mendenhall.

focosteeler
12-28-2010, 09:47 PM
I like Dowling but not in the first. Second, third is more where I'd look for him.

I would take him at the end of round one. This is what you get when Dowling is healthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCHpKga3kk


Pretty much can do it all. Goes up after the ball at its highest point, can force the run inside, is physical, has ball skills, great size, and can blitz the QB.

I’ve said it before he is a lot like Antonio Cromartie physically but unlike Cromartie, he is physical in his play.
If Pouncey is there, I'd just take him to be honest. Put him in a RG and all we have to worry about is who will be RT.

I don't see Dowling going in the 1st round.

Pouncey

DeAndre McDaniels

Ras-I Dowling

Noel Devine

Henerey.

I would be very happy with this, I think we should try and look for a tackle or two in FA

StarSpangledSteeler
12-28-2010, 09:47 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

This is one of those years I'm having a lot of trouble assessing the values of the DL prospects who might be available in rounds 2-3. I think everyone agrees we must draft a replacement for Hampton, but there don't appear to be any blue chip 3-4 run stuffing prototypes this year (like Hampton was coming out of Texas in 2001). Do we draft a flex type player who's a little more of a natural pass rusher? Or just a big body? I would probably favor a prime DL pass rusher over a prime CB because our defense is more about QB pressure than coverage INT's. The Jets have Revis (drafted 1.14) Cromartie (drafted 1.19) and Wilson (drafted 1.29) and Brady torched the hell out of them. If you can generate pressure up the middle, that's how you limit Brady, Manning, Brees. Not CB's.

I've heard mixed reviews on House. I'll have to watch more tape in the off season to make up my mind, but how much worse could he possibly be than McFadden? My guess is not much. I personally would like to see us draft a smaller speedier CB, but he has to be able to match up man-to-man. We are so lucky Ike has not gotten hurt this year.

Like you said, take a flyer on Matthews just for the blood lines. That family is just born to play football.

Overall, not bad.

NJ-STEELER
12-28-2010, 10:06 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

This is one of those years I'm having a lot of trouble assessing the values of the DL prospects who might be available in rounds 2-3. I think everyone agrees we must draft a replacement for Hampton, but there don't appear to be any blue chip 3-4 run stuffing prototypes this year (like Hampton was coming out of Texas in 2001). Do we draft a flex type player who's a little more of a natural pass rusher? Or just a big body? I would probably favor a prime DL pass rusher over a prime CB because our defense is more about QB pressure than coverage INT's. The Jets have Revis (drafted 1.14) Cromartie (drafted 1.19) and Wilson (drafted 1.29) and Brady torched the hell out of them. If you can generate pressure up the middle, that's how you limit Brady, Manning, Brees. Not CB's.

I've heard mixed reviews on House. I'll have to watch more tape in the off season to make up my mind, but how much worse could he possibly be than McFadden? My guess is not much. I personally would like to see us draft a smaller speedier CB, but he has to be able to match up man-to-man. We are so lucky Ike has not gotten hurt this year.

Like you said, take a flyer on Matthews just for the blood lines. That family is just born to play football.

Overall, not bad.

what if we could generate pressure without having our CBs play 10 yards off... wouldn't the defense be a lot better

StarSpangledSteeler
12-28-2010, 10:15 PM
Dub let me say this.
If we didn't need a guard so bad, and if there wasn't one (let alone two) guards that are very good in this draft, i would be all for drafting a tackle in the first round. but the fact of the matter is, we shuffle guys from the natural position of tackle (Essex, Foster etc) or Center (legursky) to have them play guard. is it too much to draft an actual guard? especially when you would be getting the best player at his positon. a guy that has a first round grade anyway. I'd also be all for getting Ras Dowling (in the second), but like you said, a guy who misses his entire senior season is gonna fall.

I'll agree with you that we desperately need a guard. (We actually could use two new guards, but I'd be happy with one.) The problem is three of our current OL are Guard/Tackle hybrids (Ramon Foster, Chris Scott, Trai Essex). The question is... Are they tackles trying to play guard? Or guards trying to play tackle? We have just as big a problem trying to force semi-guards into the true tackle position as we do vice versa. So which do we fix first? It depends on the "pure talent" available at 1.30. I don't have a problem taking Mike Pouncey in the first round, but i wouldn't take Wisniewski or Hudson at 1.30. I would take Sherrod, Castonzo, Solder, Carimi, or Love at 1.30, but not Ziemba or Ijalana. But I would go OL in the first round if any of those 6 prospects are available.

StarSpangledSteeler
12-28-2010, 10:17 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":32cw8b4t]1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

This is one of those years I'm having a lot of trouble assessing the values of the DL prospects who might be available in rounds 2-3. I think everyone agrees we must draft a replacement for Hampton, but there don't appear to be any blue chip 3-4 run stuffing prototypes this year (like Hampton was coming out of Texas in 2001). Do we draft a flex type player who's a little more of a natural pass rusher? Or just a big body? I would probably favor a prime DL pass rusher over a prime CB because our defense is more about QB pressure than coverage INT's. The Jets have Revis (drafted 1.14) Cromartie (drafted 1.19) and Wilson (drafted 1.29) and Brady torched the hell out of them. If you can generate pressure up the middle, that's how you limit Brady, Manning, Brees. Not CB's.

I've heard mixed reviews on House. I'll have to watch more tape in the off season to make up my mind, but how much worse could he possibly be than McFadden? My guess is not much. I personally would like to see us draft a smaller speedier CB, but he has to be able to match up man-to-man. We are so lucky Ike has not gotten hurt this year.

Like you said, take a flyer on Matthews just for the blood lines. That family is just born to play football.

Overall, not bad.

what if we could generate pressure without having our CBs play 10 yards off... wouldn't the defense be a lot better[/quote:32cw8b4t]

I don't understand what your saying. CB's don't generate pressure, they cover. Are you saying what if our CB's could cover tighter until the pressure gets to the QB?

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 10:28 PM
Dub let me say this.
If we didn't need a guard so bad, and if there wasn't one (let alone two) guards that are very good in this draft, i would be all for drafting a tackle in the first round. but the fact of the matter is, we shuffle guys from the natural position of tackle (Essex, Foster etc) or Center (legursky) to have them play guard. is it too much to draft an actual guard? especially when you would be getting the best player at his positon. a guy that has a first round grade anyway. I'd also be all for getting Ras Dowling (in the second), but like you said, a guy who misses his entire senior season is gonna fall.

I'll agree with you that we desperately need a guard. (We actually could use two new guards, but I'd be happy with one.) The problem is three of our current OL are Guard/Tackle hybrids (Ramon Foster, Chris Scott, Trai Essex). The question is... Are they tackles trying to play guard? Or guards trying to play tackle? We have just as big a problem trying to force semi-guards into the true tackle position as we do vice versa. So which do we fix first? It depends on the "pure talent" available at 1.30. I don't have a problem taking Mike Pouncey in the first round, but i wouldn't take Wisniewski or Hudson at 1.30. I would take Sherrod, Castonzo, Solder, Carimi, or Love at 1.30, but not Ziemba or Ijalana. But I would go OL in the first round if any of those 6 prospects are available.
well all the guys you named (Foster, Scott, Essex) and Hills all played Tackle for the majority of their collegiate careers. Essex played TE but ate his way out of that spot. so, they've all pretty much played tackle for the majority of their careers... that is till they got to pittsburgh, then it was force them into positions they stink at.

NJ-STEELER
12-28-2010, 10:45 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2dtws21q]1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

This is one of those years I'm having a lot of trouble assessing the values of the DL prospects who might be available in rounds 2-3. I think everyone agrees we must draft a replacement for Hampton, but there don't appear to be any blue chip 3-4 run stuffing prototypes this year (like Hampton was coming out of Texas in 2001). Do we draft a flex type player who's a little more of a natural pass rusher? Or just a big body? I would probably favor a prime DL pass rusher over a prime CB because our defense is more about QB pressure than coverage INT's. The Jets have Revis (drafted 1.14) Cromartie (drafted 1.19) and Wilson (drafted 1.29) and Brady torched the hell out of them. If you can generate pressure up the middle, that's how you limit Brady, Manning, Brees. Not CB's.

I've heard mixed reviews on House. I'll have to watch more tape in the off season to make up my mind, but how much worse could he possibly be than McFadden? My guess is not much. I personally would like to see us draft a smaller speedier CB, but he has to be able to match up man-to-man. We are so lucky Ike has not gotten hurt this year.

Like you said, take a flyer on Matthews just for the blood lines. That family is just born to play football.

Overall, not bad.

what if we could generate pressure without having our CBs play 10 yards off... wouldn't the defense be a lot better

I don't understand what your saying. CB's don't generate pressure, they cover. Are you saying what if our CB's could cover tighter until the pressure gets to the QB?[/quote:2dtws21q]

yes

StarSpangledSteeler
12-28-2010, 11:09 PM
[quote=StarSpangledSteeler][quote="Dee Dub":2t7qmzp0]1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

This is one of those years I'm having a lot of trouble assessing the values of the DL prospects who might be available in rounds 2-3. I think everyone agrees we must draft a replacement for Hampton, but there don't appear to be any blue chip 3-4 run stuffing prototypes this year (like Hampton was coming out of Texas in 2001). Do we draft a flex type player who's a little more of a natural pass rusher? Or just a big body? I would probably favor a prime DL pass rusher over a prime CB because our defense is more about QB pressure than coverage INT's. The Jets have Revis (drafted 1.14) Cromartie (drafted 1.19) and Wilson (drafted 1.29) and Brady torched the hell out of them. If you can generate pressure up the middle, that's how you limit Brady, Manning, Brees. Not CB's.

I've heard mixed reviews on House. I'll have to watch more tape in the off season to make up my mind, but how much worse could he possibly be than McFadden? My guess is not much. I personally would like to see us draft a smaller speedier CB, but he has to be able to match up man-to-man. We are so lucky Ike has not gotten hurt this year.

Like you said, take a flyer on Matthews just for the blood lines. That family is just born to play football.

Overall, not bad.

what if we could generate pressure without having our CBs play 10 yards off... wouldn't the defense be a lot better

I don't understand what your saying. CB's don't generate pressure, they cover. Are you saying what if our CB's could cover tighter until the pressure gets to the QB?[/quote:2t7qmzp0]

yes[/quote:2t7qmzp0]

That was the point i was making with the Jets example. The Jets have 3 first round corner backs (Revis, Cromartie, Wilson) and they got lit up by Brady for 326 yards and 4 TD's. Even in the first game (which the Jets won) Brady threw for 238 with 2 TD's. Overall in two games Brady threw for over 560 yards 6 TD's and 2 INT's. On the year the Jets passing defense is ranked 10th in the league in yards allowed and 32nd in INT's. Let me repeat that. The Jets have 3 first round CB's and they rank dead last in the NFL in INT's. Their 1st round CB's don't help generate pressure on opposing QB's or cause INT's. I don't see how us drafting 1 first round CB's would change that either.

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 11:14 PM
with the *'s its not so much who is out there as it is gameplan. take away Welker, disguise your coverages on the TE's and get in brady's face.. and you'll be able to get in his face because you took his safety blanket (welker) away from him.

NJ-STEELER
12-28-2010, 11:51 PM
yes

That was the point i was making with the Jets example. The Jets have 3 first round corner backs (Revis, Cromartie, Wilson) and they got lit up by Brady for 326 yards and 4 TD's. Even in the first game (which the Jets won) Brady threw for 238 with 2 TD's. Overall in two games Brady threw for over 560 yards 6 TD's and 2 INT's. On the year the Jets passing defense is ranked 10th in the league in yards allowed and 32nd in INT's. Let me repeat that. The Jets have 3 first round CB's and they rank dead last in the NFL in INT's. Their 1st round CB's don't help generate pressure on opposing QB's or cause INT's. I don't see how us drafting 1 first round CB's would change that either.[/quote]

in their 1st match up? they were able to blitz a lot of guys at brady nand leave revis 1 on1 as well as cromo... resulting in 1 of the pats losses. they held them to 14 points...dont care what their stats said


if they could generate pressure from their OLBs like we could or vice versa if we could get coverage from our CB like they could things could be differnet... both teams would benefit

the difference for us would be we have the guys who can bring the pressure. what are we?? top 3 in sacks this year?

steelerkeylargo
12-28-2010, 11:54 PM
I would be estatic on the first 3 rounds. Dont think Carimi will be there though. Think he is a top 3 tackle (along with Sherrod and Castonzo). I think I started the Ballard talk and would love him in the second. In the third I think House, Jalil Brown and Shareece Wright (my favorite of the 3) should get looks.

D Rock
12-29-2010, 12:19 AM
I like Dowling but not in the first. Second, third is more where I'd look for him.

I would take him at the end of round one. This is what you get when Dowling is healthy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VCHpKga3kk


Pretty much can do it all. Goes up after the ball at its highest point, can force the run inside, is physical, has ball skills, great size, and can blitz the QB.

I’ve said it before he is a lot like Antonio Cromartie physically but unlike Cromartie, he is physical in his play.

I like this kid's swagger.

It's like watching William Gay out there, but with skills as a cornerback.

I would be ecstatic if he was the pick in the first. I really hope the Steelers try to sign a FA Olineman to fill a gap there, and then take this dude early.


This is going to be a critical offseason. If they can't resign Taylor and Colon to buy another couple years to find playmakers, then they are going to have to seriously look to FA. I know it's not the Steeler way, but sometimes necessity dictates over tradition.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-29-2010, 11:02 AM
Can't say good or bad because RT spot is a question and who will retire? Will the retain Colon? They won't let Adams play the 5 mil contract but if he restructures, do they let Colon walk & draft his replacement? That all being said, the easiest thing to do is retain your own and use the draft to fill the talent meter instead of filling needs. That is usually what the Steelers try to do so they don't put themselves in trouble. Let's say for discussion nobody retires. There could be some restructure that has to be done to keep a Ward, Farrior, Keisel, & Smith...But it needs to get done if they want to stay to retain young players. I suspect Battle, El, and Moore (if he is under contract) become expendable based on the situation and "cap room" for signings.

Lock up Woodley & Timmons long term. That was easy.

Retain Taylor. Yes he is over 30 but no signs of fading soon. More of a must signing. Can't create a bigger hole at CB at a weak spot.

Retain Colon long term. Might get him at a little discount because of injury but that might not be enough to keep him. If not, with Adams on the team...They can let him walk if needed. Taylor, Woodley, and Timmons take priority if Colon wants a huge contract out of budget. Colon just might be "one of those guys" the Steelers have to let walk. But retaining Colon as well would be HUGE for the Steelers 2011 draft & Future. I'm sure BB will loby for him but...It all comes down to money. My head tells me they have been playing with him with tenders for a reason...They will figure out a way to keep him.

Restructure Adams with signing bonus up front & extend. Worse case scenario would be a quality vet back-up for both sides if young OT needs a year. If he wants too much or won't re-structure and Colon is retained...He is expendable.


So, if the cards fall this way, the draft comes into focus. One "immediate" need (RG) but also some " not to far" future position consideration. But that "immediate" need could be addressed anywhere in the first three rounds. Let's say the Steelers have one of the last 4 picks in round one. Projecting players little tricky right now with not knowing who is coming out but we could try.

BPA...Always first. If there is someone there that fits at OL, WR, DL, ILB, or DB, you make the pick. Can't pass on someone that should have gone off the board.

I was on Pouncey last year & also like his brother. I think Mike's stock fell with move to C in 2010. Another year at RG would have made him a lock late 1st. I think he needs very good work-outs & a great Bowl game now to get back there. PSU homer for Bowl Game...I'll be watching! I think RG would be the biggest need. But after it is all said & done on draft day...I could be as high on Mike Pouncey in the 1st as I was for his Brother. Time will tell.

I would pass on Gabe Carimi at end of first. Actually like Pouncey better than Carimi at this spot. Carimi is a one shot guy. Just a RT...If at all. Not a natural knee bender and can't be moved inside if you miss on him. Not a LT. Would pass on him...Maybe 2nd round if he was still there. He could be a dominant RT as easily as a bust.


I will go on my heart for my first mock on how it "might" play out.

RD 1 - Mike Pouncey G
RD 2 - Curtis Brown CB
RD 3 - OT / DL / S / ILB / WR

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-29-2010, 02:51 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin



... i don't think any of the kids whom would be available at OT at the bottom of the first would be any serious upgrade over what we are looking at right now for the upcoming season.

(Don't take this personal, but I have to rant...)

Who exactly do we have this upcoming season? Colon is not on our roster, he is a FA. Are you counting on signing him? What kind of contract? A one year non-guaranteed "hope" he plays better than before the surgery kind of deal? 1/3 of all achillies injured athletes never return, the other 2/3 usually have limitations. (Look at what Troy's achillies is doing to him, and that's only sprained). Even in his prime, Colon (when fully healthy) was average at best. Are you suggesting a young healthy Carimi or Love is not an immediate upgrade in pass blocking over a 4th round pick, achillies tendon-ruptured, slow as hell, short armed, Colon? Love is just as strong as Colon (right now), and Carimi's technique is far better. Starks, when healthy, is adequate, but he will never, never, never even so much as sniff a pro-bowl. The assumption that he will make a full recovery (with no lingering side effects) is a big "if". We hoped for the same thing from Marvel Smith and Wayne Gandy after their surgeries but the same injuries continued to nag them. If Starks is less effective, or heaven forbid re-inujred, who exactly do we have on our roster to replace him? T. Essex? J. Scott? That is a huge gaping weakness that must be addressed early. What about Adams? We have him under contract for one more year. He is 35 years old (let me repeat that... 35 years old). He's one good ankle/knee getting "rolled up on" from IR. We actually have NOTHING secured for next year at OT. We have 3 stop gaps and one possibly recovered from surgery.

In a best case scenario, Starks returns healthy. Adams returns healthy, as an experienced back up. We draft Carimi or Love to start at RT, with an option of sliding to LT in the event of an injury. In a worse case scenario, Starks and Colon don't return to an adequate level and we start Scott and Adams. I FULLY support drafting either of those OT's in round one. Either of them would immediately give Ben more time to throw and can block on the second level for Mendenhall.

Very well thought out, well stated argument.

Shawn
12-29-2010, 03:25 PM
If the draft panned out like this I would be doing flips in my living room. Carimi is beast and will likely be gone by #32. I love the Ballard pick in round 2. Tough Big Ten defensive lineman. Mathews in the 5th would also be a very solid pick. I have seen the guy play and left impressed. I am not familiar with the others.

You couldn't go wrong moving up in the second to grab Dowling.

IMO, this needs to be the year where we take a stand and rebuild our trenches. Obviously I'm a bit biased as I love Big Ten ball, but I don't think you can go wrong building your trenches in the Big Ten. I like the SEC for your skill positions but the Big Ten is built for NFL style linemen on both sides of the ball.

Dee Dub
12-29-2010, 03:34 PM
If the draft panned out like this I would be doing flips in my living room. Carimi is beast and will likely be gone by #32. I love the Ballard pick in round 2. Tough Big Ten defensive lineman. Mathews in the 5th would also be a very solid pick. I have seen the guy play and left impressed. I am not familiar with the others.

You couldn't go wrong moving up in the second to grab Dowling.

IMO, this needs to be the year where we take a stand and rebuild our trenches. Obviously I'm a bit biased as I love Big Ten ball, but I don't think you can go wrong building your trenches in the Big Ten. I like the SEC for your skill positions but the Big Ten is built for NFL style linemen on both sides of the ball.

I understand what you are saying Shawn but I think there is a good chance either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be there and the end of round one. To some Carimi has slipped a bit from the beginning of the year.

hawaiiansteel
12-29-2010, 03:42 PM
Obviously I'm a bit biased as I love Big Ten ball, but I don't think you can go wrong building your trenches in the Big Ten. I like the SEC for your skill positions but the Big Ten is built for NFL style linemen on both sides of the ball.



yeah, maybe we can find another Kraig Urbik... :moon

StarSpangledSteeler
12-29-2010, 03:51 PM
Can't say good or bad because RT spot is a question and who will retire? Will the retain Colon? They won't let Adams play the 5 mil contract but if he restructures, do they let Colon walk & draft his replacement? That all being said, the easiest thing to do is retain your own and use the draft to fill the talent meter instead of filling needs. That is usually what the Steelers try to do so they don't put themselves in trouble. Let's say for discussion nobody retires. There could be some restructure that has to be done to keep a Ward, Farrior, Keisel, & Smith...But it needs to get done if they want to stay to retain young players. I suspect Battle, El, and Moore (if he is under contract) become expendable based on the situation and "cap room" for signings.

Lock up Woodley & Timmons long term. That was easy.

Retain Taylor. Yes he is over 30 but no signs of fading soon. More of a must signing. Can't create a bigger hole at CB at a weak spot.

Retain Colon long term. Might get him at a little discount because of injury but that might not be enough to keep him. If not, with Adams on the team...They can let him walk if needed. Taylor, Woodley, and Timmons take priority if Colon wants a huge contract out of budget. Colon just might be "one of those guys" the Steelers have to let walk. But retaining Colon as well would be HUGE for the Steelers 2011 draft & Future. I'm sure BB will loby for him but...It all comes down to money. My head tells me they have been playing with him with tenders for a reason...They will figure out a way to keep him.

Restructure Adams with signing bonus up front & extend. Worse case scenario would be a quality vet back-up for both sides if young OT needs a year. If he wants too much or won't re-structure and Colon is retained...He is expendable.


So, if the cards fall this way, the draft comes into focus. One "immediate" need (RG) but also some " not to far" future position consideration. But that "immediate" need could be addressed anywhere in the first three rounds. Let's say the Steelers have one of the last 4 picks in round one. Projecting players little tricky right now with not knowing who is coming out but we could try.

BPA...Always first. If there is someone there that fits at OL, WR, DL, ILB, or DB, you make the pick. Can't pass on someone that should have gone off the board.

I was on Pouncey last year & also like his brother. I think Mike's stock fell with move to C in 2010. Another year at RG would have made him a lock late 1st. I think he needs very good work-outs & a great Bowl game now to get back there. PSU homer for Bowl Game...I'll be watching! I think RG would be the biggest need. But after it is all said & done on draft day...I could be as high on Mike Pouncey in the 1st as I was for his Brother. Time will tell.

I would pass on Gabe Carimi at end of first. Actually like Pouncey better than Carimi at this spot. Carimi is a one shot guy. Just a RT...If at all. Not a natural knee bender and can't be moved inside if you miss on him. Not a LT. Would pass on him...Maybe 2nd round if he was still there. He could be a dominant RT as easily as a bust.


I will go on my heart for my first mock on how it "might" play out.

RD 1 - Mike Pouncey G
RD 2 - Curtis Brown CB
RD 3 - OT / DL / S / ILB / WR

I cannot agree with the logic of re-signing Colon to a long term contract. His injury was a ruptured achillies tendon. He's putting 300 pounds of body weight on a now weakened joint on every play. He WILL get that same ankle "rolled up on" numerous times in the coming games. Shawn can probably tell us better what the "long term" prognosis is, but it's certainly not encouraging enough to invest multi-year money.

I agree in re-signing Timmons, Ike, and (probably) Woodley. I say probably on Woodley depending on the amount of money he commands, not because of skill or need. There does reach a point when it's better to franchise him then trade him than to pay him Demarcus Ware dollars.

I can't argue with Pouncey at 1.30. I can't argue too much with Brown at 2.30. I'm not saying Carimi is a future star, but I don't know that he sucks quite as bad as you are implying. I've been watching some film and I'm beginning to change my mind on Ben Ijalana. He looks very fluid in pass blocking at left tackle. He doesn't seem to lunge like the other tackles and throw himself off balance. He's a "lock and ride" type of guy which is exactly what Ben needs. I know he's only listed at 6 feet 3 1/2 inches but that's not such a bad thing anymore with a lot of the top sack leaders being shorter and stouter with better leverage. Plus he's like 318 so he's not getting bull-rushed a lot like some. Do not be surprised if he rises up draft boards into the talk of late first round, especially after Saffold's results this year.

Shawn
12-29-2010, 06:39 PM
Can't say good or bad because RT spot is a question and who will retire? Will the retain Colon? They won't let Adams play the 5 mil contract but if he restructures, do they let Colon walk & draft his replacement? That all being said, the easiest thing to do is retain your own and use the draft to fill the talent meter instead of filling needs. That is usually what the Steelers try to do so they don't put themselves in trouble. Let's say for discussion nobody retires. There could be some restructure that has to be done to keep a Ward, Farrior, Keisel, & Smith...But it needs to get done if they want to stay to retain young players. I suspect Battle, El, and Moore (if he is under contract) become expendable based on the situation and "cap room" for signings.

Lock up Woodley & Timmons long term. That was easy.

Retain Taylor. Yes he is over 30 but no signs of fading soon. More of a must signing. Can't create a bigger hole at CB at a weak spot.

Retain Colon long term. Might get him at a little discount because of injury but that might not be enough to keep him. If not, with Adams on the team...They can let him walk if needed. Taylor, Woodley, and Timmons take priority if Colon wants a huge contract out of budget. Colon just might be "one of those guys" the Steelers have to let walk. But retaining Colon as well would be HUGE for the Steelers 2011 draft & Future. I'm sure BB will loby for him but...It all comes down to money. My head tells me they have been playing with him with tenders for a reason...They will figure out a way to keep him.

Restructure Adams with signing bonus up front & extend. Worse case scenario would be a quality vet back-up for both sides if young OT needs a year. If he wants too much or won't re-structure and Colon is retained...He is expendable.


So, if the cards fall this way, the draft comes into focus. One "immediate" need (RG) but also some " not to far" future position consideration. But that "immediate" need could be addressed anywhere in the first three rounds. Let's say the Steelers have one of the last 4 picks in round one. Projecting players little tricky right now with not knowing who is coming out but we could try.

BPA...Always first. If there is someone there that fits at OL, WR, DL, ILB, or DB, you make the pick. Can't pass on someone that should have gone off the board.

I was on Pouncey last year & also like his brother. I think Mike's stock fell with move to C in 2010. Another year at RG would have made him a lock late 1st. I think he needs very good work-outs & a great Bowl game now to get back there. PSU homer for Bowl Game...I'll be watching! I think RG would be the biggest need. But after it is all said & done on draft day...I could be as high on Mike Pouncey in the 1st as I was for his Brother. Time will tell.

I would pass on Gabe Carimi at end of first. Actually like Pouncey better than Carimi at this spot. Carimi is a one shot guy. Just a RT...If at all. Not a natural knee bender and can't be moved inside if you miss on him. Not a LT. Would pass on him...Maybe 2nd round if he was still there. He could be a dominant RT as easily as a bust.


I will go on my heart for my first mock on how it "might" play out.

RD 1 - Mike Pouncey G
RD 2 - Curtis Brown CB
RD 3 - OT / DL / S / ILB / WR

I cannot agree with the logic of re-signing Colon to a long term contract. His injury was a ruptured achillies tendon. He's putting 300 pounds of body weight on a now weakened joint on every play. He WILL get that same ankle "rolled up on" numerous times in the coming games. Shawn can probably tell us better what the "long term" prognosis is, but it's certainly not encouraging enough to invest multi-year money.

I agree in re-signing Timmons, Ike, and (probably) Woodley. I say probably on Woodley depending on the amount of money he commands, not because of skill or need. There does reach a point when it's better to franchise him then trade him than to pay him Demarcus Ware dollars.

I can't argue with Pouncey at 1.30. I can't argue too much with Brown at 2.30. I'm not saying Carimi is a future star, but I don't know that he sucks quite as bad as you are implying. I've been watching some film and I'm beginning to change my mind on Ben Ijalana. He looks very fluid in pass blocking at left tackle. He doesn't seem to lunge like the other tackles and throw himself off balance. He's a "lock and ride" type of guy which is exactly what Ben needs. I know he's only listed at 6 feet 3 1/2 inches but that's not such a bad thing anymore with a lot of the top sack leaders being shorter and stouter with better leverage. Plus he's like 318 so he's not getting bull-rushed a lot like some. Do not be surprised if he rises up draft boards into the talk of late first round, especially after Saffold's results this year.

An Achilles rupture is a catastrophic injury that can end careers. There is just no way to know how he will heal, how fast he will heal, and if he will ever be able to play at the same level.

With all of that said, many do come back from these injuries. The Steelers will need to take a long hard look at him in the offseason and make a really tough choice. My suspicion is that the Steelers will pass on Colon. Another team will take a chance on him and throw stupid money his way. The Steelers don't take many risks. Just look at the Woodson injury and how that was handled. Colon is no Woodson.

As for Carimi...there are many opinions out there on his play. I have watched some videos on him recently and left impressed. There are many who consider him a natural LT with gifted feet and elite ability. I have read a couple sites who seem to think the guy is just a road grader RT. Overall, the thoughts on the guy are very positive. And, personally I think he has a very good chance to be a special tackle in the NFL.

grotonsteel
12-31-2010, 01:26 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin



... i don't think any of the kids whom would be available at OT at the bottom of the first would be any serious upgrade over what we are looking at right now for the upcoming season.

(Don't take this personal, but I have to rant...)

Who exactly do we have this upcoming season? Colon is not on our roster, he is a FA. Are you counting on signing him? What kind of contract? A one year non-guaranteed "hope" he plays better than before the surgery kind of deal? 1/3 of all achillies injured athletes never return, the other 2/3 usually have limitations. (Look at what Troy's achillies is doing to him, and that's only sprained). Even in his prime, Colon (when fully healthy) was average at best. Are you suggesting a young healthy Carimi or Love is not an immediate upgrade in pass blocking over a 4th round pick, achillies tendon-ruptured, slow as hell, short armed, Colon? Love is just as strong as Colon (right now), and Carimi's technique is far better. Starks, when healthy, is adequate, but he will never, never, never even so much as sniff a pro-bowl. The assumption that he will make a full recovery (with no lingering side effects) is a big "if". We hoped for the same thing from Marvel Smith and Wayne Gandy after their surgeries but the same injuries continued to nag them. If Starks is less effective, or heaven forbid re-inujred, who exactly do we have on our roster to replace him? T. Essex? J. Scott? That is a huge gaping weakness that must be addressed early. What about Adams? We have him under contract for one more year. He is 35 years old (let me repeat that... 35 years old). He's one good ankle/knee getting "rolled up on" from IR. We actually have NOTHING secured for next year at OT. We have 3 stop gaps and one possibly recovered from surgery.

In a best case scenario, Starks returns healthy. Adams returns healthy, as an experienced back up. We draft Carimi or Love to start at RT, with an option of sliding to LT in the event of an injury. In a worse case scenario, Starks and Colon don't return to an adequate level and we start Scott and Adams. I FULLY support drafting either of those OT's in round one. Either of them would immediately give Ben more time to throw and can block on the second level for Mendenhall.


Very well said...well drafted :Clap :Clap :Beer

I have been trying to say this but some people don't like to think OT is a need..They still believe we can draft an OT in 4th Rd and make him a starter at RT..... :wink:

Its about time Steelers draft an OT who can pass protect for a change.

grotonsteel
12-31-2010, 01:43 PM
1—Gabe Carimi-------OT Wisconsin
2—Christian Ballard---DT Iowa
3--Davon House-----CB New Mexico State
4--Armon Binns -----WR Cincinnati
5--Casey Matthews- ILB Oregon (worth the flyer on the bloodlines alone)
6--Zach Hurd -------OG Connecticut
7--Sidney Glover-----SS West Virginia (has played both safety spots---hits with authority and played special teams)

I personally think that either Carimi or Demarcus Love will be at or near where the Steelers draft in round one. Ras-I Dowling, Jared Crick, Christian Ballard, or Rahim Moore are my choices for round two. I dont think that Dowling, Crick, or even Moore will be available when the Steelers draft in round two and with Ballard they may need to move up a tad.

Ok ya'all...start shootin'....:lol:

Carimi was dominant in college but I will be afraid to draft Carimi because of Kraig Ubrik scenario.I think he will be an instant upgrade at RT. Can he play LT?? I like 2nd/3rd/4th Rd pick very much.

Steelers33
12-31-2010, 02:09 PM
Hey guys big steelers fan new to the forum. As for the draft, I definately agree that we need to draft a d-lineman o-lineman and cb in the first three rounds of the draft. As for o-line I think the pressing need is a RG but the inconsistency and injuries at both tackle positions makes it tempting to draft a tackle. In this years draft I think there are a good handful of tackle prospects. I'll start with the one I new the best which is Gabe Carimi since I live in Wisconsin watch every game and have been to a few. Carimi is an absolute house in the running game. He has great drive blocking ability and can get up to the second level with solid quickness and athleticism. But where his stock might fall is in his pass pro. He has a tendacy to bend at the waist and take false steps. While this doesn't kill him in college because his size makes up for it, in the NFL he might not get away with it. It is not like he is a bad pass blocker but from analyzing him every game this is what I noticed. So with that being stated I think he might fall to the lower half of the first round. To me, he has the potential to be a dominant RT and might end up being a solid LT if he corrects his flaws. He would defiantely provide insurance at the tackle position for years to come. Watch what he did to Adrian Claybourn of Iowa, pretty much manhadled him except a few time Claybourn beat him with quickness because of the flaws described above. Also we should maybe look at guard John Moffit in the fourth or fifth round. All in all are most pressing need is guard, but I think if a quality tackle like Carimi falls to us we should take him. With that maybe we can pick up a guard in free agency. Or we draft a guard like Mike Pouncey, and risk a season with our tackles again.

sentinel33
12-31-2010, 02:41 PM
I'd really like to see a top 5 OT fall to the late 1st round. that's my wish list.

then just start taking BPA at any of these 3 positions-DL, CB and OL.

On offense the O-line is the only position that should be tended to with our first 4 picks. If a WR needs tagged use a 5-7 rnd pick.
We dont NEED a TE. Or a RB. Or a WR. We NEED 2 good O-linemen. one at G and one at T. The offense will get better. Way better.

I think the LB position is solid, as long as we keep Timmons. Harrison will hang around for a few more years. As well as James is playing, he's probably close to empty. stings to say it. Foote(30) can play next to Timmons inside with Harrison and Worilds outside. Fox(28) and Stevenson on the inside backing them up. look for a backup OLB in 5-7 or UFA. I just think LB is at the bottom when it comes to position of need on the defense.(not importance) re-signing both Timmons and Woodley would just be a bonus but i'm not including both into this equation. trying to be realistic and error on that side. Ideally we could re-sign Timmons this season and have Woodley play on a Fran. Tag for a season then give him a big contract. Really hope this works out to where we can keep both.

But in the secondary we NEED to re-sign Taylor. so that may spell goodbye to woodleyorTimmons. keeping Taaylor means we only need to get a CB of a caliber that resides in the 1-4 round range. i would prefer one in the 2nd or 3rd round after we nail down the OL.

then get a DL. Round 3. A nice G in round 4.

If Pouncey is there in Round 2 then we should take him. to me RG is just ahead of FB when it comes to starters in the offensive pecking order. but in the case of the Pounceys, getting a dynamic like that where 2 of the 5 O-lineman are practically communicating telepathically is making me salivate. but not at the expense of a Rnd one selection. We NEED a OT. not a RG. i think Foster can play that position just fine. needs more seasoning. who knows. maybe we get a OT in FA and can take the other Pouncey at the end of round one. we'll see.

So yeah OT,CB,G,DL etc. getting a lineman and a wr in FA would shake things up a bit, but since we dont play the market to often i also left that out of the equation.

I've got 27-16 Stelers on sunday with Mendenhall having a nice day, surpassing the 1300 yrd. mark and Pittsburgh locking down the 2 seed. Not to mention there 3rd division title in the past 4 years. Get some! Go Steelers!!!

sofrickin'psyched

Steelers33
12-31-2010, 02:51 PM
Hey guys big steelers fan new to the forum. As for the draft, I definately agree that we need to draft a d-lineman o-lineman and cb in the first three rounds of the draft. As for o-line I think the pressing need is a RG but the inconsistency and injuries at both tackle positions makes it tempting to draft a tackle. In this years draft I think there are a good handful of tackle prospects. I'll start with the one I new the best which is Gabe Carimi since I live in Wisconsin watch every game and have been to a few. Carimi is an absolute house in the running game. He has great drive blocking ability and can get up to the second level with solid quickness and athleticism. But where his stock might fall is in his pass pro. He has a tendacy to bend at the waist and take false steps. While this doesn't kill him in college because his size makes up for it, in the NFL he might not get away with it. It is not like he is a bad pass blocker but from analyzing him every game this is what I noticed. So with that being stated I think he might fall to the lower half of the first round. To me, he has the potential to be a dominant RT and might end up being a solid LT if he corrects his flaws. He would defiantely provide insurance at the tackle position for years to come. Watch what he did to Adrian Claybourn of Iowa, pretty much manhadled him except a few time Claybourn beat him with quickness because of the flaws described above. Also we should maybe look at guard John Moffit in the fourth or fifth round. All in all are most pressing need is guard, but I think if a quality tackle like Carimi falls to us we should take him. With that maybe we can pick up a guard in free agency. Or we draft a guard like Mike Pouncey, and risk a season with our tackles again.

sentinel33
12-31-2010, 02:57 PM
if we dont draft a tackle in thr first 3 rounds of the 2011 draft we are setting ourselves up for trouble. with Adams, Colon and Starks being unknowns, that is too big of a risk i think.

Welcome to the Forum steelers33.

Steelers33
12-31-2010, 04:00 PM
And also a little bit more on Wisconsin guys. John Moffit is a LG but is versatile. He is again a very solid run blocker but has limitations athletically. He is a strong road gradder type who has descent initial quickness off the line, and shows ability in pass pro. If he is there in the fourth or fifth round we should take him. As for another solid d-line prospect is DE JJ Watt. Before I start it is up in the air whether he is declaring or staying one more year in school. But if he declares we should definately consider taking him in the second round, as there is no really dominant nose tackles or inside presences in this years
draft. Watt is a playmaker. He won the Lott award because of it. He projects as a very solid 3-4 DE. He has solid size at 6'6 285 and could easily get up to 300. He is a run stuffing demon. Great inside move with solid quickness and good strength. He is not a pure pass rushing DE but still has 7 sacks on the year as his quickness can beat tackles. He reminds me of a younger quicker stronger Brett Kiesel. We should definately consider this guy if he declares.

hawaiiansteel
01-01-2011, 10:36 PM
I posted this article before but wanted all the people pushing for an OT in Round 1 to have a chance to read it again since it seems like a few of you missed reading it last time... :lol:


Steelers Could Ignore OT Again in 2011 NFL Draft to Focus On Need and Value

Posted on December 7, 2010 by ted


Pittsburgh is the only NFL franchise that has not drafted an offensive tackle prospect in the first two rounds in any NFL draft over the past decade (2001-10). Do not be shocked if that streak continues in the 2011 NFL Draft. In fact, the Steelers may ignore offensive tackle altogether in April.

The Steelers rarely reach for prospects that are further down its draft value board and teams picking later in the first round simply cannot draft an offensive tackle in any round in this era without reaching at some point due to the increasing premium placed on the position by all NFL franchises.

Moreover, the Steelers could easily enter its 2011 NFL training camp (assuming a new CBA is reached and there are training camps) with three quality, proven, starting offensive tackles on its roster in LT Max Starks, RT Willie Colon and Flozell Adams, who could still start on either side.

They also could have up to two more versatile offensive linemen with significant game experience at tackle in veterans Trai Essex and Jonathan Scott, as well as two more young tackle prospects who have been on Steeler regular-season rosters in third-year left tackle Tony Hills and rookie right tackle/guard Chris Scott.

That is a lot of options for a veteran, Super Bowl-contending team with more immediate needs at right guard, cornerback and potentially defensive end if often-injured veteran Aaron Smith opts to retire after the 2010 season.

However, ignoring tackle in the first round of the 2011 NFL Draft could prove disastrous for Pittsburgh as early as 2012, a season when the Steelers could be forced into starting a rookie, late, first-round offensive tackle, a recipe which is rarely successful.

After losing both Colon and Starks to season-ending injuries, the Steelers’ already-poor offensive line is now a makeshift unit.

Signing the veteran Adams right before training camp, however, has turned out to be a season-saver and one of the team’s best personnel moves of the highly-successful Kevin Colbert era. While not great, Adams has been a solid starter at right tackle this fall after spending most of his career as the Cowboys’ left tackle.

Adams, however, will turn 36 before the start of a potential 2011 season. While his annual salary doubles to $5 million in 2011, with none of it guaranteed, the Steelers will likely beg Adams to return for another training camp and would be best served keeping him on their 2011 roster even if he is an high-priced No. 3 offensive tackle.

That is because both of the Steelers’ starting offensive tackles over the past several seasons, Starks and Colon, will be returning from season-ending injuries. Moreover, while his play should not suffer upon his return in 2011, the type of neck injury Starks sustained means that any other serious injury in that area could quickly be deemed career-ending.

After struggling in pass protection early in his career, Colon emerged as one of the better right tackles in football in 2009 and was clearly the Steelers’ best offensive lineman before a season-ending Achilles tear in July that ended his 2010 season.

Colon is reportedly making great progress in his rehab, but he is unlikely a long-term answer for the Steelers for several reasons. First, players often need 1.5-2 years to recover from season-ending Achilles injuries, which is another reason why Adams will be asked back for training camp.

Second, while the Steelers’ coaching staff loves Colon and agrees with his agent that he is among the top right tackles in the NFL, Pittsburgh management has always placed more value on Starks, in large part due to his ability to play the more-important leftside.

Colon should have been eligible for unrestricted free agency after the 2009 season if not for an owner-friendly provision that kept most fourth- and fifth-year players from becoming unrestricted free agents due to a new CBA not being agreed upon. That same provision will hold for this coming off-season as well, assuming no CBA is reached.

Veteran Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reporter Ed Bouchette wrote on the Post-Gazette‘s premium subscriber site a few weeks ago that he sees no way a CBA is reached that does not allow players like Colon to immediately become unrestricted free agents and that he expects Colon to cash in with a big paycheck while leaving the Steelers.

However, with the owners holding more cards in this labor strife due to their receiving guaranteed television revenues even if games are not played in 2011, I could easily see a scenario where teams again having the option to issue one-year tenders to their fourth- and fifth-year players like Colon and LaMarr Woodley, thus prohibiting those players from entering the free market.

If a CBA is not reached until after the draft, it seems unlikely that owners would allow the roster-shuffling chaos that would ensue with such a large group of potential free agents entering the open market so close to the season and with teams not able to draft their replacements. The later in the summer that a lockout drags on, the more likely any agreement eventually reached would prevent players like Colon from entering free agency until after the 2011 season.

Of course if a CBA is reached before the draft and the Steelers lose Colon to free agency, Adams would be the clear starter at right tackle for 2011 and tackle would become a bigger draft need for the Steelers.

However, even in that scenario, what team would pay a huge signing bonus to an undersized right tackle coming off an Achilles tear? Colon certainly would not receive the type of long-term deal reflective of a top starting right tackle in free agency.

Thus, the Steelers may be be able to resign him to a hometown discount or maybe Colon would turn down mutli-year offers, opting to instead sign a 1-year, incentive-based deal (most likely with the Steelers) with a plan of cashing in on a huge payday after returning to form in 2011.

Therefore, considering all these options, I disagree with Bouchette by arguing that the odds right now favor Colon remaining in a Steeler uniform in 2011, although that is much harder to see for 2012.

Scott is seemingly outmatched every week since he has been thrust into the Steelers’ starting left tackle role, a position he simply lacks the athleticism to play well in the NFL. However, Scott has surpassed expectations this fall and has shown himself as long-term, valuable and intelligent, reserve offensive lineman capable of playing 3-4 different positions on immediate notice. He is as tough as any Pittsburgh offensive lineman and hits somebody until the whistle. Unfortunately, that player is often not the defender he was initially assigned to block, because that man is already en route to harassing QB Ben Roethlisberger.

Essex, who has now seemingly lost his starting right guard spot for the rest of 2010 to Ramon Foster but did not fare horribly when forced to replace Adams at right tackle in the second half of last week’s 13-10 win over the Ravens, is similar to Scott in his versatility, intelligence and experience. Scott is tougher, but Essex has more size and experience within the Steelers’ system.

Both of these journeyman will be unrestricted free agents in January regardless of the CBA situation. While there will be multiple free-agent offers for top players Ike Taylor, there will likely be little external market for players like Scott and Essex. If no CBA is reached, why would an opposing owner shell out cash for a reserve offensive lineman? If a CBA is reached, then a much deeper and more talented group of offensive linemen will be available, and no franchise would sign Scott or Essex to be a starter.

Regardless, expect the Steelers to resign one of these two players of their choice to a 2-year contract in the upcoming off-season. Pittsburgh will have major free-agency issues to deal with if a CBA is reached, since Taylor, Woodley, Colon, and Matt Spaeth would all be unrestricted free agents, with the Steelers likely focusing all their energy and cash on keeping Taylor and Woodley, the latter of whom would likely receive the franchise tag if such a designation is again part of a CBA.

Taylor, however, would be the only starter on the market and the only Steeler who would receive lucrative free-agent offers if no CBA is reached. Pittsburgh must break the bank to maintain Taylor, but that would still enable the franchise to resign valuable veteran reserves like Essex or Scott to smaller, short-term contracts.

Either Scott or Essex, however, could be batting with or even sharing the right tackle job with a rookie 2012 first-round draft pick, because Colon will likely be in another uniform before the 2012 season at the latest and it hard to imagine Adams playing that long.

If that scenario scares the Steelers’ brass greatly, they could elect to draft a future starting offensive tackle late in the first round of the upcoming draft, passing over prospects at other positions who would be more likely to play sooner.

However, this is not a deep draft for tackles and Colorado’s Nate Solder, Mississippi State’s Derek Sherod, Wisconsin’s Gabe Carimi and Boston College’s Anthony Castonzo are all likely to be selected before the Steelers’ pick, assuming none of the four bomb in the post-season all-star games and workouts.

If so, at this point there appears to be no other left-tackle prospect worthy of a first-round pick and the Steelers should not be reaching for a player like Arkansas’s DeMarcus Love, who most scouts see as a right tackle who may actually end up playing guard.

The ranks of offensive tackle prospects only gets thinner in later rounds and I do not see Pittsburgh veering too far down its board just to draft a tackle when it has so many roster options at that spot for 2011.

Be sure to log back onto SteelersLounge.com tomorrow as we unveil a new 7-round Pittsburgh Steeler 2011 mock draft.

http://www.steelerslounge.com/2010/12/s ... aft-focus/

birtikidis
01-02-2011, 01:39 AM
I wasn't impressed by camiri at all today.
Wiesnewski looked pretty good. wouldn't mind going after him.
Pouncey(2) is a flat out stud. of the three, by far the most talented and most worthy of a 1st round pick.

Chadman
01-02-2011, 09:55 AM
Significant injuries to Aaron Smith, hamstring injuries to Keisel & the age of Hoke & Hampton make DL just as big an issue as OL at this point.

For Chadman- Round 1 target would be California's 3-4 DE Cameron Jordan. Already plays 3-4 DE, so the transition should be quick. Great size & will 'work out' well from all reports. The Steelers success comes on the back of a Defense that is dominant. If Smith, Hampton & Keisel suffer any kind of significant drop-off in performance, the whole Steeler D becomes questionable. The Steelers shot themselves in the foot the last 2 years by not drafting Hampton's replacement- plenty of good options missed. but you don't draft a NT simply because you need one if you don't get value. So DE it is- better value & a position of need.

OG is the 'easiest' position on the OL to play. No need to spend a 1st round pick on these guys- get a big road grader type that isn't flashy but plays his assignments well. Ijalna in round 3 provides better 'value' than say, Pouncey in Round 1. Quite like Pinkston out of Pitt as an OT prospect available in the Round 2-3 range. Steelers could go OL Rounds 2 & 3 and come up with potential starters. Keep in mind though- every OL player chosen means one of the existing guys gets cut. Is it too early to give up on Ramon Foster & Chris Scott?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-03-2011, 11:02 AM
I cannot agree with the logic of re-signing Colon to a long term contract. His injury was a ruptured achillies tendon. He's putting 300 pounds of body weight on a now weakened joint on every play. He WILL get that same ankle "rolled up on" numerous times in the coming games. Shawn can probably tell us better what the "long term" prognosis is, but it's certainly not encouraging enough to invest multi-year money.

I agree in re-signing Timmons, Ike, and (probably) Woodley. I say probably on Woodley depending on the amount of money he commands, not because of skill or need. There does reach a point when it's better to franchise him then trade him than to pay him Demarcus Ware dollars.

I can't argue with Pouncey at 1.30. I can't argue too much with Brown at 2.30. I'm not saying Carimi is a future star, but I don't know that he sucks quite as bad as you are implying. I've been watching some film and I'm beginning to change my mind on Ben Ijalana. He looks very fluid in pass blocking at left tackle. He doesn't seem to lunge like the other tackles and throw himself off balance. He's a "lock and ride" type of guy which is exactly what Ben needs. I know he's only listed at 6 feet 3 1/2 inches but that's not such a bad thing anymore with a lot of the top sack leaders being shorter and stouter with better leverage. Plus he's like 318 so he's not getting bull-rushed a lot like some. Do not be surprised if he rises up draft boards into the talk of late first round, especially after Saffold's results this year.


I'm not very concerned about Colon's injury. The contract can have verbage protecting the Steelers from lack of performance from the injury. The Steelers might be in a position to retain him for 1 year which depending how the CBA unfolds. If he was a skill position guy, I would definately pass. But as an OL, based on how he was playing before the injury, trying to hold on to him has a comfortable risk/reward.

I really never said Carimi "sucks". Just not sure he could play LT at the next level and given his stature, moving inside seems like it wouldn't be successful.

That all being said, I watched Pouncey & Carimi this weekend. Pouncey did everything to help himself. He would look really good in the colors. Like I said, a very good combine & workout...He could be gone before the Steelers. The Steelers are picking now 25+. I think he is in that 25-40 range right now. As far as Carimi, he looks really good as a run blocker. I'm still not sure he is a sure thing at LT which concerns me. He looks like he could be a RT and a pretty darn good one. He will be under a microscope pre-draft. I'm sure there will be alot of weight on his position drills. Carimi reminds me alot of Phil Loadholt when he came out. Look how he turned out. I would be pleased if that is what you get.

flippy
01-03-2011, 01:30 PM
We're getting older on the DLine and need some youth.

There are 3 guys I like that could be around when we draft:

Drake Nevis - NT - LSU
JJ Watt - DE - Wisconsin
Allen Bailey - DE - Miami

Anyone have any insight on the plusses/minuses on these guys?

I have a feeling we'll go DLIne, CB, OLine in 2011 in the first 3 rounds.

steelerkeylargo
01-03-2011, 01:51 PM
We're getting older on the DLine and need some youth.

There are 3 guys I like that could be around when we draft:

Drake Nevis - NT - LSU
JJ Watt - DE - Wisconsin
Allen Bailey - DE - Miami

Anyone have any insight on the plusses/minuses on these guys?

I have a feeling we'll go DLIne, CB, OLine in 2011 in the first 3 rounds.


JJ Watt is a flat out stud and would make a great 3-4 DE, unreal motor.

Drake Nevis has NFL ready skills in both footwork and hand fighting, some look at him as too small, but he is almost the same size as Hampton when Hampton was a senior.

Allen Bailey will drop down draft boards and in my belief is a 3rd round player. He doesn't have the quick twitch skills to be a top choice

grotonsteel
01-03-2011, 06:58 PM
We're getting older on the DLine and need some youth.

There are 3 guys I like that could be around when we draft:

Drake Nevis - NT - LSU
JJ Watt - DE - Wisconsin
Allen Bailey - DE - Miami

Anyone have any insight on the plusses/minuses on these guys?

I have a feeling we'll go DLIne, CB, OLine in 2011 in the first 3 rounds.


JJ Watt is a flat out stud and would make a great 3-4 DE, unreal motor.

Drake Nevis has NFL ready skills in both footwork and hand fighting, some look at him as too small, but he is almost the same size as Hampton when Hampton was a senior.

Allen Bailey will drop down draft boards and in my belief is a 3rd round player. He doesn't have the quick twitch skills to be a top choice


I really hope JJ Watt declare for the draft. He is a beast. Perfect fit for 3-4 Defense.

I have not seen much of Allen Bailey.

Drake Nevis well he is 6'05 - 290 lbs. I assume he has short arms. He won't be playing DE in 3-4. I have not seen him occupying 2 blockers at a time which Casey does regularly.I would not draft him in Rd 1. Too much of a project to spend a Rd 1 draft pick for Steelers.

steelerkeylargo
01-03-2011, 07:42 PM
We're getting older on the DLine and need some youth.

There are 3 guys I like that could be around when we draft:

Drake Nevis - NT - LSU
JJ Watt - DE - Wisconsin
Allen Bailey - DE - Miami

Anyone have any insight on the plusses/minuses on these guys?

I have a feeling we'll go DLIne, CB, OLine in 2011 in the first 3 rounds.


JJ Watt is a flat out stud and would make a great 3-4 DE, unreal motor.

Drake Nevis has NFL ready skills in both footwork and hand fighting, some look at him as too small, but he is almost the same size as Hampton when Hampton was a senior.

Allen Bailey will drop down draft boards and in my belief is a 3rd round player. He doesn't have the quick twitch skills to be a top choice


I really hope JJ Watt declare for the draft. He is a beast. Perfect fit for 3-4 Defense.

I have not seen much of Allen Bailey.

Drake Nevis well he is 6'05 - 290 lbs. I assume he has short arms. He won't be playing DE in 3-4. I have not seen him occupying 2 blockers at a time which Casey does regularly.I would not draft him in Rd 1. Too much of a project to spend a Rd 1 draft pick for Steelers.


I can tell you Nevis has elite quickness and I would bet the house he is over 300 lbs at the combine.

Steelers33
01-03-2011, 07:57 PM
Trust me guys, if JJ Watt falls to us, we should draft him. I already explained in my earlier post that he would fit very nicely for the 3-4 DE. I'm not biased because I'm a Wisconsin guy, or because he played my high school in football( my offensive line coach told me we had to triple team him), or because I played his brother in football who was the state player of the year and is also going to Wisconsin. I see huge upset in him. Outside of his strength, frame, and quickness for the 3-4 I think his most outatanding attribute he plays with such great leverage. It is not given he would hold up at the point of attack in the NFL, but I think he has a very good shot with his physical tools and his determination and work ethic. With that are two 3-4 DE would be locked up for years with him and Hood, which is an important aspect to our defense. Nose tackle is still a concern though, I haven't seen much on Nevis but I don't know if there was really a dominant NT in college football. NT just has so many aspects to it for a person to be good like Casey has for a long time. You have to obviously have the size,play with outstanding leverage to consistently take up two blockers, have exceptional athleticism, have a mean streak because you're banging everyplay, and you have to be unselfish that you won't get all the tackles which is always not a given( Albert Haynesworth.) For this defense to be succesfull for years to come, a quality NT is a must. I just don't know if we can find it in this years draft.

hawaiiansteel
01-04-2011, 12:42 AM
Trust me guys, if JJ Watt falls to us, we should draft him.


I agree, but it looks doubtful that JJ Watt will drop down far enough for us to have a crack at him .I've seen him going as high as #10 overall to the Redskins in mock drafts.