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anger 82&95
12-28-2010, 07:32 AM
What Dean Spanos can do that many of his football team’s fans can’t do, is remember. It doesn’t take much for the Chargers president to recall the not-so-long-ago, when he was boss of the worst team in the NFL, when even he admits his organization lacked organization. It was a loser. So, when Spanos, who has been in charge of the franchise since father Alex handed him the wheel in 1994, says head coach Norv Turner and General Manager A.J. Smith will return in 2011, he almost seems incredulous, amazed that he has to be asked. Public opinion aside, it’s his team to run. Turner and Smith will return. This is not an election ticket. One vote matters. “I’ve learned the hard way,” Spanos said. “Your GM and coach have to be two individuals who work together. It’s very difficult for some teams; I’ve been through it. I like the working relationship at this level. “We’re as disappointed as anyone. But I look to 1996 to 2003, when we couldn’t even get (beyond) 8-8. We’ve turned it around, to where we’re a good team and a good organization. There’s a lot of continuity, but we’re still short. “The easiest thing in the world is to start over. Who the hell do I go hire? Blow the whole thing up? We’re a pretty good team but we have to make the right moves. We’ve fallen. It could have been our draft picks or our free-agent moves. But we have a good core, and I don’t care what anybody says. I’m not afraid to make changes. If I thought it was warranted, I would do it. We have a good foundation here. It’s not often I can sit across from Dean Spanos and agree with much of what he has to say. I’ve had go-rounds with dad and go-rounds with son, but if he were to tear this thing up now and start all over, it just might be the biggest mistake he’s made. And he’s made a few, which he also admits (and, no, firing Marty Schottenheimer is not one of them; yes, firing Bobby Ross is). From my standpoint, given the weakness of their schedule and the optimism that preceded training camp, this is the most disappointing season in the team’s history. The brutal loss Sunday to hapless Cincinnati that doused the Chargers’ playoff hopes was their entire season played out in 60 minutes. But there are things to consider before ripping and slashing, given the labor unrest in the NFL. There are no guarantees there will be a season in 2011. There may be a quarter-season, a half-season, no training camp, no minicamps, no offseason workouts. If this happens and you bring in a new coach or a new GM, with new systems and philosophies, good luck in 2011. Smith and Turner both have made mistakes. If the Chargers get off to another bad start in 2011 — or whenever the next season begins — that it isn’t going to get fixed under Norv, enough will be enough. It’s asking too much to continually rise from the dead. This year, for many reasons, it didn’t happen, but the early season bungling has to stop. “I like A.J., even though he’s a bit goofy,” Spanos says. “I trust him. He’ll tell you he’s made mistakes. Who hasn’t? But he takes chances. Sometimes you lose the bet, but if you’re going to win a world championship, you’ve got to take chances. I learned that from my father in our business. A.J.’s committed 100 percent to this organization. “Norv took over a good team and I think he’s done a good job under some trying circumstances. I hate to make excuses, but I don’t (care). It’s hard to win without players. Last year we lost six players in our opener at Oakland and Norv won 13 games. This year, I’ve never seen anything like it. I know injuries are a (bleep) excuse, but we started 2-5 and could have caved and we didn’t. These players respect Norv Turner. I think they have great admiration for him. If the players don’t have confidence in their coach, you’re not going to be successful.” Smith often has said all that matters is getting to the playoffs and winning playoff games. Under Turner, who inherited 11 Pro Bowlers, there were two postseason wins in 2007, one in 2008, none in 2009 (loss to the Jets) and, of course, there won’t be a chance now. Norv has not been good enough to coach this team to a championship. A.J. has not been good enough to manage this team to a championship. But I do know that, just seven years ago, it was the worst team in football. “When you have a coach that is competent, loyal and trustworthy and you believe in him, you stay the course,” Smith said. “Norv Turner will be leading this football team. “It wasn’t coaching. Sometimes the best thing in the world is to make very few changes. There’s an image out there that Norv is my puppet. Just the opposite. The man knows what he’s doing. People may have the opposite opinion. The coach is coming back. Other teams make decisions to go in another direction. I did — four years ago. I know it’s frustrating to the fans, but I believe in this coach. “As far as I’m concerned, I haven’t been good enough. We have failed this year. It’s devastating to me. But, if you believe, you stay the course. And I believe. As for my job, talk to Dean.” So I did. No changes at the top. And, all things considered, that’s not a bad thing. For now.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... -chargers/ (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/dec/27/spanos-no-changes-top-chargers/)

MeetJoeGreene
12-28-2010, 09:43 AM
Not surprising that he would not be fired since he just signed a 3 year extension. That would be a lot of $$ for the Chargers to eat

Starlifter
12-28-2010, 10:04 AM
great news for the rest of us!

SteelCzar76
12-28-2010, 04:00 PM
Turner actually has an excellent football mind in terms of offensive acumen. However he is not a great motivator by any stretch of the imagination. Smith is actually a quality GM in terms of drafting quality personnel. However,..he's too totalitarian in how he handles contract issues.

Personally,..i think a Coaching change of the likes that would land Coach Cowher or Coach Jim Harbaugh would immediately pay off for Diego in the form of a World Title.

And perhaps a dynasty if Coach Cowher would put together defenses of the likes that he had at his best with us. Can you imagine our Trophy case if many of Coach Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB or QB's the quality of Philip Rivers ?

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 04:18 PM
....Can you imagine our Trophy case if many of Coach Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB or QB's the quality of Philip Rivers ?

I'd rather not. Maybe you have forgotten that it was Cowher who insisted on playing Kordell Stewart and he was the backing force behind giving Stewart a long term contact???

Oh and he too was the mastermind behind putting a Super Bowl victory in the hands of one Neil O’Donnell.

Down by 3 with 4 minutes and 20 seconds left in the game and having the Cowboys on their heels……….

Oh dear God! No please dont have me go back there.

Crash
12-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Can you imagine our Trophy case if many of Coach Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB or QB's the quality of Philip Rivers ?

No, I'd rather win rings with the better QB we have now.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 04:35 PM
Can you imagine our Trophy case if many of Coach Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB or QB's the quality of Philip Rivers ?

No, I'd rather win rings with the better QB we have now.
I think we all can agree Ben is better than Kordell, Tomczak, Brister, O'Donnell, Graham, Miller, Maddox, etc. Are you suggesting Rivers is a worse option?

That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Afterall, we all saw what happened when Cowher had even a rookie and second year capable QB. Much like those years, our teams best unit is still our defense.

Crash
12-28-2010, 04:38 PM
That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Rivers isn't that good. He's great against crap teams. Not real good against good ones.

He struggles early against teams and when he gets behind he puts up scrap time yards.

Every game they've lost, they fallen behind early. Rivers also sucks when he's faced with 3rd and long.

You don't succeed on 3rd and long? You don't win in the NFL.

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 04:40 PM
well even you can admit crash, that Rivers is head and shoulder about Korkie. I would have loved to have a guy like him from 95-2001... course, we probably wouldn't have Troy or Ben now though.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 04:48 PM
That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Rivers isn't that good. He's great against crap teams. Not real good against good ones.

He struggles early against teams and when he gets behind he puts up scrap time yards.

Every game they've lost, they fallen behind early. Rivers also sucks when he's faced with 3rd and long.

You don't succeed on 3rd and long? You don't win in the NFL.
I don't know of any team that desires to get to 3rd and long. Getting to 3rd and long means the offense failed on downs 1 and 2.

I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of those stats with Ben's, who you claim to be much better.

As of last week's victory over Carolina, Ben has exactly 1 quality win versus a playoff contending team THIS YEAR. Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs. Our offense has been miserable and inconsistent much of the year. I fail to see much difference between he and Ben accept Ben's special teams and defense hasn't let him down this year as much. Quite the contrary, our team is carried by the defense because in many games our offense is inadequate.

Crash
12-28-2010, 04:59 PM
Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs.

Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs with 2 rings.

Rivers is 3-4, a losing record.

Next?

Our offense struggles because we are too worried about running the ball. Especially on 1st down in the red zone.

Watch the games.

ALLD
12-28-2010, 05:01 PM
Norv Turner is the Charlie Brown of the NFL.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 05:06 PM
Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs.

Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs with 2 rings.

Rivers is 3-4, a losing record.

Next?

Our offense struggles because we are too worried about running the ball. Especially on 1st down in the red zone.

Watch the games.
You're now changing the criteria and taking quotes out of context?

Wow, that is a shocker. :loser

PS, The Steelers are 8-2 with Ben at QB in the playoffs. If Rivers was here since 2004, I doubt we see much difference, maybe improvement.

Crash
12-28-2010, 05:10 PM
PS, The Steelers are 8-2 with Ben at QB in the playoffs.

And the Chargers are 3-4 with Rivers, a losing record.

Philip Rivers is overrated, you can't even win the AFC West? You aren't good.

SteelCzar76
12-28-2010, 05:10 PM
That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Rivers isn't that good. He's great against crap teams. Not real good against good ones.

He struggles early against teams and when he gets behind he puts up scrap time yards.

Every game they've lost, they fallen behind early. Rivers also sucks when he's faced with 3rd and long.

You don't succeed on 3rd and long? You don't win in the NFL.
I don't know of any team that desires to get to 3rd and long. Getting to 3rd and long means the offense failed on downs 1 and 2.

I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of those stats with Ben's, who you claim to be much better.

As of last week's victory over Carolina, Ben has exactly 1 quality win versus a playoff contending team THIS YEAR. Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs. Our offense has been miserable and inconsistent much of the year. I fail to see much difference between he and Ben accept Ben's special teams and defense hasn't let him down this year as much. Quite the contrary, our team is carried by the defense because in many games our offense is inadequate.

:Agree And was not that lone win a matter of us escaping a familiar division rival via the 'Heroics' of one Troy Polamalu ? Heroics that were only necessary in the first place because the offense led by the "Elite only in the minds of some of those of the Nation" Roethlisberger once again struggled to score even as many points as an early 1900's football team against a quality opponent. As they have for quite some time now.( 2008 season included) :lol:

The facts are this as far as i'm concerned,....our defense,.. Troy in particular are our team's only true strength.

And as i said prior to the 2004 Draft, Philip Rivers is, was and remains the best QB of his class and the only one whom should even begin to be mentioned in the same breath with Danny Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Jim Kelly or even a Peyton Manning in terms of skill, quality and productivity playing the position of professional QB.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 05:17 PM
PS, The Steelers are 8-2 with Ben at QB in the playoffs.

And the Chargers are 3-4 with Rivers, a losing record.

Philip Rivers is overrated, you can't even win the AFC West? You aren't good.

It's a team sport. To suggest Rivers is the problem with the Chargers is just moronic, stupid and retarded.

As I said, any of Manning, Rivers or even Schaub would have won in Pittsburgh imo.

Ben isn't the end all of QB's. I'm sure our success this season and in past seasons could be accomplished with many QB's, such as Mannings, Rivers, Brady, Brees, Ryan, Cutler, Schaub, etc.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 05:18 PM
That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Rivers isn't that good. He's great against crap teams. Not real good against good ones.

He struggles early against teams and when he gets behind he puts up scrap time yards.

Every game they've lost, they fallen behind early. Rivers also sucks when he's faced with 3rd and long.

You don't succeed on 3rd and long? You don't win in the NFL.
I don't know of any team that desires to get to 3rd and long. Getting to 3rd and long means the offense failed on downs 1 and 2.

I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of those stats with Ben's, who you claim to be much better.

As of last week's victory over Carolina, Ben has exactly 1 quality win versus a playoff contending team THIS YEAR. Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs. Our offense has been miserable and inconsistent much of the year. I fail to see much difference between he and Ben accept Ben's special teams and defense hasn't let him down this year as much. Quite the contrary, our team is carried by the defense because in many games our offense is inadequate.

:Agree And was not that lone win a matter of us escaping a familiar division rival via the 'Heroics' of one Troy Polamalu ? Heroics that were only necessary in the first place because the offense led by the "Elite only in the minds of some of those of the Nation" Roethlisberger once again struggled to score even as many points as an early 1900's football team against a quality opponent. As they have for quite some time now.( 2008 season included) :lol:

The facts are this as far as i'm concerned,....our defense,.. Troy in particular are our team's only true strength.

And as i said prior to the 2004 Draft, Philip Rivers is head was and remains the best QB of his class and the only one whom should even begin to be mentioned in the same breath with Danny Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Jim Kelly or even a Peyton Manning in terms of skill, quality and productivity playing the position of professional QB.
Ben has physical skills on par or greater than all of them. What holds him back from reaching his true potential is above the shoulders.

Crash
12-28-2010, 05:23 PM
Ben has physical skills on par or greater than all of them. What holds him back from reaching his true potential is above the shoulders.

Yeah, those costly picks that the Manning's throw, that Schaub throws, Cutler. All smart QBs I have to tell you.

The Colts carried Peyton to his ring for 4 weeks.

Eli's done NOTHING since Plax left.

Ben lost Plax and won a Super Bowl.

Matt Schaub has a top 5 RB, and a top 5 WR and he still can't stop throwing bad picks.

papillon
12-28-2010, 05:30 PM
Turner actually has an excellent football mind in terms of offensive acumen. However he is not a great motivator by any stretch of the imagination. Smith is actually a quality GM in terms of drafting quality personnel. However,..he's too totalitarian in how he handles contract issues.

Personally,..i think a Coaching change of the likes that would land Coach Cowher or Coach Jim Harbaugh would immediately pay off for Diego in the form of a World Title.

And perhaps a dynasty if Coach Cowher would put together defenses of the likes that he had at his best with us. Can you imagine our Trophy case if many of Coach Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB or QB's the quality of Philip Rivers ?

That is a fact; only a true franchise quarterback was holding those teams back. Of course, some of that blame has to be hung on coach Cowher for believing that Kordell was the answer and then when O'donnell was playing well allowing him to walk. I know NOD wasn't great, but he was good for what the Steelers were doing at the time. He managed the game well and allowed the running game and defense to win games, NOD, simply didn't lose games. I know, I know before you all post about the SB, he did have a hand in that loss, but you know what I'm saying about NOD.

Pappy

Irongut
12-28-2010, 05:35 PM
Ben has physical skills on par or greater than all of them. What holds him back from reaching his true potential is above the shoulders.

Yeah, those costly picks that the Manning's throw, that Schaub throws, Cutler. All smart QBs I have to tell you.

The Colts carried Peyton to his ring for 4 weeks.

Eli's done NOTHING since Plax left.

Ben lost Plax and won a Super Bowl.

Matt Schaub has a top 5 RB, and a top 5 WR and he still can't stop throwing bad picks.
and if Ben had any of those team's defenses, he couldn't score enough to have a chance, outside of a bathroom that is. The best unit on this team is still the defense, despite how great you seem to think Ben is.

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 05:36 PM
That is a fact; only a true franchise quarterback was holding those teams back. Of course, some of that blame has to be hung on coach Cowher for believing that Kordell was the answer and then when O'donnell was playing well allowing him to walk. I know NOD wasn't great, but he was good for what the Steelers were doing at the time. He managed the game well and allowed the running game and defense to win games, NOD, simply didn't lose games. I know, I know before you all post about the SB, he did have a hand in that loss, but you know what I'm saying about NOD.

Pappy

Yeah this is a fact that always gets over looked by those who hold Cowher in such hi-esteem.

Irongut
12-28-2010, 05:37 PM
That is a fact; only a true franchise quarterback was holding those teams back. Of course, some of that blame has to be hung on coach Cowher for believing that Kordell was the answer and then when O'donnell was playing well allowing him to walk. I know NOD wasn't great, but he was good for what the Steelers were doing at the time. He managed the game well and allowed the running game and defense to win games, NOD, simply didn't lose games. I know, I know before you all post about the SB, he did have a hand in that loss, but you know what I'm saying about NOD.

Pappy

Yeah this is a fact that always gets over looked by those who hold Cowher in such hi-esteem.
It's one of his biggest errors as coach. Taking Plax over Pennington was retarded.

SteelCzar76
12-28-2010, 05:55 PM
That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Rivers isn't that good. He's great against crap teams. Not real good against good ones.

He struggles early against teams and when he gets behind he puts up scrap time yards.

Every game they've lost, they fallen behind early. Rivers also sucks when he's faced with 3rd and long.

You don't succeed on 3rd and long? You don't win in the NFL.
I don't know of any team that desires to get to 3rd and long. Getting to 3rd and long means the offense failed on downs 1 and 2.

I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of those stats with Ben's, who you claim to be much better.

As of last week's victory over Carolina, Ben has exactly 1 quality win versus a playoff contending team THIS YEAR. Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs. Our offense has been miserable and inconsistent much of the year. I fail to see much difference between he and Ben accept Ben's special teams and defense hasn't let him down this year as much. Quite the contrary, our team is carried by the defense because in many games our offense is inadequate.

:Agree And was not that lone win a matter of us escaping a familiar division rival via the 'Heroics' of one Troy Polamalu ? Heroics that were only necessary in the first place because the offense led by the "Elite only in the minds of some of those of the Nation" Roethlisberger once again struggled to score even as many points as an early 1900's football team against a quality opponent. As they have for quite some time now.( 2008 season included) :lol:

The facts are this as far as i'm concerned,....our defense,.. Troy in particular are our team's only true strength.

And as i said prior to the 2004 Draft, Philip Rivers is head was and remains the best QB of his class and the only one whom should even begin to be mentioned in the same breath with Danny Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Jim Kelly or even a Peyton Manning in terms of skill, quality and productivity playing the position of professional QB.
Ben has physical skills on par or greater than all of them. What holds him back from reaching his true potential is above the shoulders.

Something i have always said since he (Ben) was playing college ball. You are preaching to the Pope Iron.

Roethlisberger is no Bum (As a football player),....but his almost total refusal to maximize his potential via film study, practice, maturity and the discipline to refine his 'game' to suit the the professional level have always been what's gotten under my skin about the kid. As it still does.

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 06:06 PM
IDK how anyone knows how much ben studies the film. i also don't know how y'all know his work ethic.
Ben is the perfect qb for us at the perfect time.
Manning (either of them) would get killed behind our o-line
Rivers wouldn't be able to handle the pressure either
schaub and cutler would throw a ton of picks.
they're all good qbs in THEIR own system.

birtikidis
12-28-2010, 06:07 PM
That is a fact; only a true franchise quarterback was holding those teams back. Of course, some of that blame has to be hung on coach Cowher for believing that Kordell was the answer and then when O'donnell was playing well allowing him to walk. I know NOD wasn't great, but he was good for what the Steelers were doing at the time. He managed the game well and allowed the running game and defense to win games, NOD, simply didn't lose games. I know, I know before you all post about the SB, he did have a hand in that loss, but you know what I'm saying about NOD.

Pappy

Yeah this is a fact that always gets over looked by those who hold Cowher in such hi-esteem.
most of that is true, but, we wouldn't have matched the Jets offer. Never. he was way overpaid. as can be seen by his performance after leaving.

SteelCzar76
12-28-2010, 06:27 PM
Turner actually has an excellent football mind in terms of offensive acumen. However he is not a great motivator by any stretch of the imagination. Smith is actually a quality GM in terms of drafting quality personnel. However,..he's too totalitarian in how he handles contract issues.

Personally,..i think a Coaching change of the likes that would land Coach Cowher or Coach Jim Harbaugh would immediately pay off for Diego in the form of a World Title.

And perhaps a dynasty if Coach Cowher would put together defenses of the likes that he had at his best with us. Can you imagine our Trophy case if many of Coach Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB or QB's the quality of Philip Rivers ?

That is a fact; only a true franchise quarterback was holding those teams back. Of course, some of that blame has to be hung on coach Cowher for believing that Kordell was the answer and then when O'donnell was playing well allowing him to walk. I know NOD wasn't great, but he was good for what the Steelers were doing at the time. He managed the game well and allowed the running game and defense to win games, NOD, simply didn't lose games. I know, I know before you all post about the SB, he did have a hand in that loss, but you know what I'm saying about NOD.

Pappy

You know what Pap,..admittedly i agree that NOD wasn't anything near the Bane of this franchise though in truth i have never come to peace with the Superbowl picks to Larry Brown.

But in his defense, i never expected much from Neil (much like Bubby) so him playing well enough for us to even return to respectability after the lean 80's was something i enjoyed greatly at the time. (especially in light of the fact that i was still in my 'seeing the world through black and gold colored glasses' youth. :lol: )

ramblinjim
12-28-2010, 06:45 PM
Norv Turner is the Charlie Brown of the NFL.

:Cheers

Dee Dub
12-28-2010, 06:54 PM
You know what Pap,..admittedly i agree that NOD wasn't anything near the Bane of this franchise though in truth i have never come to peace with the Superbowl picks to Larry Brown.

But in his defense, i never expected much from Neil (much like Bubby) so him playing well enough for us to even return to respectability after the lean 80's was something i enjoyed greatly at the time. (especially in light of the fact that i was still in my 'seeing the world through black and gold colored glasses' youth. :lol: )

Czar....you and nearly everyone in the entire world felt that way about Neil O'Donnell except one person….. your boy Bill Cowher. See he thought so much of NOD that he put the Super Bowl in his hands with 4:20 left in the game and down only 3.

SteelCzar76
12-28-2010, 07:33 PM
You know what Pap,..admittedly i agree that NOD wasn't anything near the Bane of this franchise though in truth i have never come to peace with the Superbowl picks to Larry Brown.

But in his defense, i never expected much from Neil (much like Bubby) so him playing well enough for us to even return to respectability after the lean 80's was something i enjoyed greatly at the time. (especially in light of the fact that i was still in my 'seeing the world through black and gold colored glasses' youth. :lol: )

Czar....you and nearly everyone in the entire world felt that way about Neil O'Donnell except one person….. your boy Bill Cowher. See he thought so much of NOD that he put the Super Bowl in his hands with 4:20 left in the game and down only 3.

I feel you Dub,..but honestly dude i get the impression that Coach attempted to make due as best he could with his available options QB concerning not only Neil, but Kordell (whom i still loathe) Tomczack, Graham and Tommy in light of how the organization went about pursuing Qb's at the time. (Mom and pop style)

By the time that Coach not only had the power and draft position to match the availability of an actual blue chip stud QB that he believed in and was prepared to acquire (Rivers),....it was undone by Eli's trust fund homo tantrum which resulted in him (Coach) missing possibly his best career opportunity to fully actualize his potential as our head Coach in terms of World titles IMO.

RuthlessBurgher
12-28-2010, 09:23 PM
That, however, wasn't the question. The question was "can we imagine our trophy case if many of Cowher's defensive and offensive ground units had a QB the quality of Rivers?"

Rivers isn't that good. He's great against crap teams. Not real good against good ones.

He struggles early against teams and when he gets behind he puts up scrap time yards.

Every game they've lost, they fallen behind early. Rivers also sucks when he's faced with 3rd and long.

You don't succeed on 3rd and long? You don't win in the NFL.
I don't know of any team that desires to get to 3rd and long. Getting to 3rd and long means the offense failed on downs 1 and 2.

I'd be curious to see a side by side comparison of those stats with Ben's, who you claim to be much better.

As of last week's victory over Carolina, Ben has exactly 1 quality win versus a playoff contending team THIS YEAR. Seems Rivers isn't the only one beating up on chumps, not champs. Our offense has been miserable and inconsistent much of the year. I fail to see much difference between he and Ben accept Ben's special teams and defense hasn't let him down this year as much. Quite the contrary, our team is carried by the defense because in many games our offense is inadequate.

:Agree And was not that lone win a matter of us escaping a familiar division rival via the 'Heroics' of one Troy Polamalu ? Heroics that were only necessary in the first place because the offense led by the "Elite only in the minds of some of those of the Nation" Roethlisberger once again struggled to score even as many points as an early 1900's football team against a quality opponent. As they have for quite some time now.( 2008 season included) :lol:

The facts are this as far as i'm concerned,....our defense,.. Troy in particular are our team's only true strength.

And as i said prior to the 2004 Draft, Philip Rivers is, was and remains the best QB of his class and the only one whom should even begin to be mentioned in the same breath with Danny Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Jim Kelly or even a Peyton Manning in terms of skill, quality and productivity playing the position of professional QB.

Phil Rivers is a regular season stat mongerer, much like Peyton Manning. I'd love to have those guys on my fantasy football team. But for real-life big-boy football, performance in the playoffs are what truly count.

Rivers is 3-4 in the playoffs. Peyton is 9-9 in the playoffs. Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs.

And before you get to the inevitable "but his defense carried him there" argument, the Steelers have never scored less than 20 points with Roethlisberger at QB. Rivers' explosive Chargers O scored less than 20 points in 3 out of his 7 playoff games. Manning's explosive Colts O scored less than 20 points in 8 out of his 18 playoff games. Roethlisberger's pedestrian Steeler O scored less than 20 points in 0 out of his 10 playoff games.

Crash
12-29-2010, 01:03 AM
and if Ben had any of those team's defenses, he couldn't score enough to have a chance, outside of a bathroom that is. The best unit on this team is still the defense, despite how great you seem to think Ben is.

Peyton's had good defenses since 2004. To say he hasn't is nothing but Manning PR.

Still doesn't excuse horrible picks in crunch time.

Peyton was on the same stage as Ben was, needing a TD, and he threw a pick 6.

Are you surprised? I'm not.

It's his trademark.

hawaiiansteel
12-29-2010, 01:08 AM
I'm not sure why I think this but sometimes it seems like Peyton Manning gives up late in games...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lHPPhOSC0bk/Ry5k3npiplI/AAAAAAAABZ0/BoX3Cr3RPXw/s400/colts_white_flag.gif

Crash
12-29-2010, 01:13 AM
I don't even think Peyton cares as long as he has his numbers. He's like Tony Gwynn, as long as he hit he was happy.

steelers75
11-01-2011, 03:11 PM
And as i said prior to the 2004 Draft, Philip Rivers is, was and remains the best QB of his class and the only one whom should even begin to be mentioned in the same breath with Danny Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Jim Kelly or even a Peyton Manning in terms of skill, quality and productivity playing the position of professional QB.

Wonder if this idiot's lips are still surgically attached to Rivers' nutsack? LOL