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Djfan
12-26-2010, 11:58 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/22262/eric-mangini-era-likely-ending-in-cleveland


Eric Mangini era likely ending in Cleveland
December, 26, 2010
Dec 26
8:30
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By James Walker
Eric ManginiAP Photo/Tony DejakAfter Sunday's loss Eric Mangini has a 10-21 record as coach of the Cleveland Browns.
CLEVELAND -- Just as last season's December surge played a major role in Browns head coach Eric Mangini retaining his job, this year's December swoon could lead to his downfall.

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With Mangini on the hot seat, the Browns (5-10) lost 20-10 Sunday to the Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland's third straight loss. Mangini is 10-21 in two seasons in Cleveland and 2-9 against AFC North foes, a mark this struggling franchise must turn around if it's ever to be a contender.

But as I watched Cleveland closely against the Ravens, the big question that kept running through my head was: "What was Mike Holmgren thinking?" The Browns' president is getting paid a lot of money to bring a winner to Cleveland. He put his trust in this Browns coaching staff this season despite many philosophical differences. More specifically:

* What was Holmgren thinking as the coaching staff cost the team crucial points for the second straight week with poor clock management at the end of the first half?

* What was Holmgren thinking after a poorly executed onside kick failed at the start the third quarter led to a quick touchdown by Baltimore?

* What was Holmgren thinking as the Browns continued to play ultraconservatively to try to keep the game close instead of playing to win?

* What was Holmgren thinking as he watched rookie Colt McCoy -- Holmgren's personal choice at quarterback -- run a porous offense with questionable play calling?


These are all things to ponder over the next few weeks as Holmgren and general manager Tom Heckert evaluate Mangini and his coaching staff. To avoid back-to-back 11-loss seasons, the Browns must beat the Pittsburgh Steelers (11-4) next Sunday in Cleveland.

With the 2010 season virtually over, expect a lot of speculation about Cleveland's direction in 2011 heading into the regular-season finale.

"The coaches, their job is on the line but so is the players'," said Browns left tackle Joe Thomas, who could be in for his third regime change in five seasons. "Whenever you have a losing season, everybody gets evaluated from the top down. So players are playing for their jobs, they're playing for their pride, they're playing for the name on the back of their jersey and they're playing for that helmet."

Mangini had to demonstrate progress after last season's 5-11 record. But despite wins against the defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints on the road and the heavily favored New England Patriots at home, the Browns have not shown enough improvement in 2010.

"You're judged in this league by how many wins you produce," Browns linebacker and team captain David Bowens said. "That's how people hold you accountable. We just haven't been able to win the close games. Not to say all of our losses have been close."

Cleveland's performance against Baltimore was a comedy of errors.

In addition to four turnovers, the Browns clumsily alternated between gimmicky and conservative play, never finding the right formula. As a result, the Browns were beating and tricking themselves while the Ravens took advantage and clinched a playoff berth.

The blunders started late in the second quarter. Down 13-7, the Browns took their time on offense during the final two minutes when a touchdown would have given them a halftime lead. Instead, Cleveland looked dazed, didn't use its timeouts and ran too much time off the clock. The mismanagement forced the Browns to kick a field goal on third down.

"I thought we would have three shots at the end zone. The plays ended up ... taking longer," Mangini explained.

Cleveland began the second half with a feeble onside kick attempt that rolled out of bounds. The Saints used the strategy successfully in Super Bowl XVIV against the Colts, but the Browns merely gave Baltimore great field position. Taking advantage of the short field, the Ravens took a 10-point lead they never relinquished three plays later.

"To go get that touchdown was big," Ravens coach John Harbaugh said.

McCoy had his worst day (149 yards, three interceptions) as a pro. But keep in mind, Holmgren drafted him to run a West Coast offense, not the conservative scheme Mangini is using. It's a scheme that has produced 14 points or fewer seven times this season.

But McCoy made enough plays this season to show Holmgren that the rookie quarterback has enough talent to cultivate. Will Mangini and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll be the right people to get the most out of McCoy, Cleveland's offense and the team as a whole?

The Browns -- who have lost to the Bills, Bengals and Ravens in the past three weeks -- went backward as the season went on. That probably gives you plenty of insight into what Holmgren is thinking.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-27-2010, 12:22 AM
The irony is so delicious - Mr. Walrus "Super Clock Manager" who lost to us in Superbowl XL at least in part because his OWN cr*ppy clock management is getting called out by the media for his NEW team's atrocious clock management.

Gotta Love It!

Discipline of Steel
12-27-2010, 07:40 AM
Its heartwarming to know the Browneyes are on a 3 game skid (no pun intended :P )

:brownssuck

ikestops85
12-27-2010, 10:17 AM
Its heartwarming to know the Browneyes are on a 3 game skid (no pun intended :P )

:brownssuck

Let's make that a 4 game skid :tt2 :tt2

:brownssuck

rpmpit
12-27-2010, 12:38 PM
I really don't get it. Why can't other organizations see that it takes years to build a winner. Why do they give up on coaches so quickly. Especially when the most succesful team in history (US!!! :D ) does just the opposite.

I don't know. To me, the Browns looked like a decent team this year. Beating NE and playing us pretty well. They'll always be the Browns though. No one is going to come in and immediately make them a winner.

ikestops85
12-27-2010, 12:41 PM
I really don't get it. Why can't other organizations see that it takes years to build a winner. Why do they give up on coaches so quickly. Especially when the most succesful team in history (US!!! :D ) does just the opposite.

I don't know. To me, the Browns looked like a decent team this year. Beating NE and playing us pretty well. They'll always be the Browns though. No one is going to come in and immediately make them a winner.

:Agree I think Mangini is doing a decent job with the Browns. I hope they do get rid of him and start all over .... again.

NorthCoast
12-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Local media says it is more about a philosophy between Mangini and Holmgren than about wins -losses. Holmgren is looking for a west-coastish offense and Mangini is a big believer in the run game especially with Hillis and their run-blocking line.

fezziwig
12-28-2010, 11:01 AM
I really don't get it. Why can't other organizations see that it takes years to build a winner. Why do they give up on coaches so quickly. Especially when the most succesful team in history (US!!! :D ) does just the opposite.

I don't know. To me, the Browns looked like a decent team this year. Beating NE and playing us pretty well. They'll always be the Browns though. No one is going to come in and immediately make them a winner.

:Agree I think Mangini is doing a decent job with the Browns. I hope they do get rid of him and start all over .... again.


My thoughts exactly.

Question: When Mangini was under Bellicheat, what coaching department was he known for ? I hope it was offense and I hope the Steelers pick him up and give Arians the boot if he was the O.C.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-28-2010, 11:08 AM
I really don't get it. Why can't other organizations see that it takes years to build a winner. Why do they give up on coaches so quickly. Especially when the most succesful team in history (US!!! :D ) does just the opposite.

I don't know. To me, the Browns looked like a decent team this year. Beating NE and playing us pretty well. They'll always be the Browns though. No one is going to come in and immediately make them a winner.

:Agree I think Mangini is doing a decent job with the Browns. I hope they do get rid of him and start all over .... again.


My thoughts exactly.

Question: When Mangini was under Bellicheat, what coaching department was he known for ? I hope it was offense and I hope the Steelers pick him up and give Arians the boot if he was the O.C.

He left the Jets with a little bit of stink in the air ... not sure I'd want him hear until all that was clearly understood ...

RuthlessBurgher
12-28-2010, 11:23 AM
I really don't get it. Why can't other organizations see that it takes years to build a winner. Why do they give up on coaches so quickly. Especially when the most succesful team in history (US!!! :D ) does just the opposite.

I don't know. To me, the Browns looked like a decent team this year. Beating NE and playing us pretty well. They'll always be the Browns though. No one is going to come in and immediately make them a winner.

:Agree I think Mangini is doing a decent job with the Browns. I hope they do get rid of him and start all over .... again.


My thoughts exactly.

Question: When Mangini was under Bellicheat, what coaching department was he known for ? I hope it was offense and I hope the Steelers pick him up and give Arians the boot if he was the O.C.

Mangini was a defensive backs coach and then defensive coordinator in New England.

fezziwig
12-28-2010, 11:45 AM
I really thought Mangini was turning the corner with the Browns and giving the opponents something to think about.

Djfan
12-28-2010, 11:59 AM
I really thought Mangini was turning the corner with the Browns and giving the opponents something to think about.


Perfect time to can his rump in Cleveland!

fezziwig
12-28-2010, 12:09 PM
I agree the best thing about the Browns they have always been in transition. They are too stupid to realize that you can not build Rome in a day and to stick with a coach that does show promise. I beleive they had that in Mangini.

I never thought Gruden was a champion coach despite that he went to and won a Super Bowl. Gruden won the Super Bowl with Dungy's hard work. Gruden did know what to do with the talent much like Tomlin but, Gruden doesn't worry me that he may be the next Brownies coach.

You never know, maybe they will keep Mangini.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-28-2010, 01:39 PM
I agree the best thing about the Browns they have always been in transition. They are too stupid to realize that you can not build Rome in a day and to stick with a coach that does show promise. I beleive they had that in Mangini.

I never thought Gruden was a champion coach despite that he went to and won a Super Bowl. Gruden won the Super Bowl with Dungy's hard work. Gruden did know what to do with the talent much like Tomlin but, Gruden doesn't worry me that he may be the next Brownies coach.

You never know, maybe they will keep Mangini.

Do I also remember it right that he won because he played against a team he coached the year before, so he knew all the plays?

(Also, the Raiders Pro-Bowl center had a psychiatric collapse the night before and didn't show up for the game ... was found drunk in a Mexican Cat House at 2AM the day of the game ...).

So yeah, either way, I agree - Gruden wouldn't upset me as coach of the Stains. Even if he did do something impressive after his 1st year at Tampa (which I don't actually recall that he did ...?).

fezziwig
12-28-2010, 02:07 PM
I agree the best thing about the Browns they have always been in transition. They are too stupid to realize that you can not build Rome in a day and to stick with a coach that does show promise. I beleive they had that in Mangini.

I never thought Gruden was a champion coach despite that he went to and won a Super Bowl. Gruden won the Super Bowl with Dungy's hard work. Gruden did know what to do with the talent much like Tomlin but, Gruden doesn't worry me that he may be the next Brownies coach.

You never know, maybe they will keep Mangini.



Ha ! I didn't know their center had a melt down. I guess I shouldn't laugh but why when someone has a melt down or whatever problems they seem to have they turn to booze, drugs, paper towel dispensers or a cat house ?

Don't these guys realize they probably have some of the best places to take care of their problems with the teams staff, team doctors, punching bag or anything better than some of their antics.










Do I also remember it right that he won because he played against a team he coached the year before, so he knew all the plays?

(Also, the Raiders Pro-Bowl center had a psychiatric collapse the night before and didn't show up for the game ... was found drunk in a Mexican Cat House at 2AM the day of the game ...).

So yeah, either way, I agree - Gruden wouldn't upset me as coach of the Stains. Even if he did do something impressive after his 1st year at Tampa (which I don't actually recall that he did ...?).

RuthlessBurgher
12-28-2010, 02:19 PM
Ha ! I didn't know their center had a melt down. I guess I shouldn't laugh but why when someone has a melt down or whatever problems they seem to have they turn to booze, drugs, paper towel dispensers or a cat house ?

Don't these guys realize they probably have some of the best places to take care of their problems with the teams staff, team doctors, punching bag or anything better than some of their antics.

The Barrett Robbins story was a difficult story to miss.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2005-02-02-robbins-cover_x.htm

fezziwig
12-28-2010, 02:41 PM
Thanks, I remember it now and what a shame.

hawaiiansteel
12-28-2010, 04:39 PM
Browns players say they hope Mangini will be back

By Associated Press
Tuesday, December 28, 2010


BEREA, Ohio -- His destiny's unknown and in team president Mike Holmgren's hands. Eric Mangini could be down to his final days with the Browns.

He hopes his time in Cleveland isn't over.

But if this is indeed the end, and only Holmgren knows for sure, Mangini's last week began with two players stepping forward to say they hope he returns for a third season.

"I have the utmost respect for him," cornerback Sheldon Brown said. "I can't say anything negative about him. You may find someone else, but I can't. He's treated me like a man from day one."

Fullback Lawrence Vickers, one of the NFL's most devastating blockers, cleared a path for his coach.

"I love Mangini," Vickers said. "He's a good guy, so I want him back. If not, I can't do nothing about it. Like he tells us, life goes on."

The comments were the most positive and public spoken by any Cleveland players this season in support of Mangini, whose record dropped to 10-21 with the Browns (5-10) following Sunday's home loss to Baltimore. To this point, many of the Browns had either sidestepped questions about Mangini by saying "it isn't my decision" or they were focused on the game ahead.

Not Brown and Vickers. They have Mangini's back.

Cleveland's season, which peaked with a Nov. 7 upset of New England, has been in steady decline. The Browns are just 2-5 since then, with losses at Buffalo and Cincinnati -- both two-win teams at the time -- providing the necessary ammo for Holmgren or any Mangini bashers to pass judgment.

Holmgren hasn't spoken to the media since Nov. 2, when he said he would wait until after the season before making any decision on Mangini.

Brown, acquired in an offseason trade, played for Andy Reid in Philadelphia. He believes Mangini has the qualities to take the Browns to a higher level.

"He has all the intangibles," he said. "He learned from one of the best (Bill Belichick). Obviously, he knows the plan. For us, it's just going out and executing the plan. It's not his fault when we give up touchdown passes. It's not his fault when we throw interceptions. It's not his fault when we fumble. The players control that."

Mangini was grateful to learn that two of his players spoke highly of him.

One of the goals he has met since taking over the Browns has been filling his roster with high-character people who value team success over individual triumph.

The Browns have bonded.

"There's a sense of community in this team and sense of purpose that doesn't happen by accident," he said. "We all want to win every week. There's tremendous respect for each other. That's going to continue to be here, and it's going to continue to propel us forward."

For at least one more week.

The Browns will end the season by hosting the Steelers (11-4), who will come to Cleveland on Sunday looking to win the AFC North. It's one more chance for Mangini to show Holmgren how much his team has improved in Year 2. And while the record -- the Browns finished 5-11 last year -- has barely budged, Mangini's confident significant strides have been made.

"We are seeing it on Sunday at 4 o'clock," he said. "It's not showing up in the ultimate category, which is to win games. That needs to continue to improve. But I think the progress is showing up every single week in the way we play, the style we play, the consistency -- all those things are apparent."

Mangini's supporters -- and it's a surprisingly sizable group -- point to the Browns' competitiveness all season. They've been in every game. They've pulled off shocking wins over the Patriots and New Orleans. And, they've had to withstand a rash of injuries, including high ankle sprains to all three quarterbacks.

Mangini's detractors argue the Browns should have pulled out a few more games. They also question Mangini's decision making, clock management and ultraconservative tendencies on game day. In Sunday's loss, the Browns wasted valuable time before settling for a field goal to end the first half, and then botched an onside kick to open the second.

Holmgren, who celebrated his one-year anniversary in Cleveland last week, has hinted at a possible return to the sideline. It's not known if the 62-year-old has exterminated the coaching bug or if he'll make a switch if one of his former assistants such as Jon Gruden or Marty Mornhinweg is available.

Holmgren may decide to keep Mangini and change his staff.

Mangini said he has not discussed anything with Holmgren outside of "team-related stuff," and that he isn't curious about what his boss is thinking.

"I remember somebody telling me one time don't worry about the future, it comes soon enough," Mangini said.

By next Monday, things should be much clearer.

Until then, Vickers said the Browns will do what Mangini has preached.

"We want to keep fighting for our coach," he said. "That's the type of coach that he is. Hey, he coached us to finish, and that's what we're trying to do."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 15563.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_715563.html)

OchoUno
12-28-2010, 06:41 PM
Local media says it is more about a philosophy between Mangini and Holmgren than about wins -losses. Holmgren is looking for a west-coastish offense and Mangini is a big believer in the run game especially with Hillis and their run-blocking line.

Mangini is right.

ALLD
12-28-2010, 07:02 PM
Let's send him onto the unemployment line with a big fat loss as his last game. Also, the only way the Browns will win is if you move the team to another city.

hawaiiansteel
12-30-2010, 04:20 PM
Collier: Turn your attention to Exhibit B

Thursday, December 30, 2010
By Gene Collier, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Mike Tomlin might not have delivered enough forensic evidence this week to show the Cleveland Browns have the opportunity, the motive and the capability of defacing the Steelers' playoff credentials, but then, he didn't really have to.

Anyone with functional short-term memory knows, for example, that Browns quarterback Colt McCoy, despite having as much experience as an NFL quarterback as he has as a lion tamer, ripped the Steelers defense for 281 passing yards as recently as Oct. 17.

Anyone with functional long-term memory knows, for another, that even with Brady Quinn completing only 6 of 19 throws in the glacial cold of a black winter's night in Cleveland last Dec. 10, the Browns leveled what was essentially this same construct of Steelers as easily as you'd tip a snowman.

But it's not until you fully audit the stakes of this 116th Steelers-Browns argument, the one that kicks off at 1:02 p.m. Sunday adjacent to Lake Erie, that you understand the role of veteran leadership in outcomes. In his locker room, Tomlin certainly has enough competitive character to ensure victory when victory is expected.

At least that's the theory (see Dec. 10, 2009).

"I think it has more to do with how we play collectively, how we play as a group," said Hines Ward after grimacing at the whole leadership thing. "You watch that game in Philly and I don't think that has anything to do with leadership. I think it just means you can't give up two turnovers and a fumble for a touchdown against a team you're supposed to be beatin'."

The Eagles kicked away their chance at a No. 2 seed in the playoffs the other night by playing the frozen dope for the 6-9 Minnesota Vikings, which is more or less precisely what Ward's team is hoping to avoid this weekend.

"It's time for us to start playing good football," Ward said flatly. "Last game we didn't play well; we won, anyway, but that was because Carolina was a bad team. If we play that way this week, we won't be in the playoffs long.

"It's time to put a complete game together."

The complete Steelers experience won't come down on the Browns unless it includes Troy Polamalu, whose stubborn lower leg injury will get an official go-or-no Friday, but Tomlin should forget any temptation to keep a healthy Troy out of harm's way until the postseason.

The very nature of the postseason pivots totally on the outcome of Week 17, and it's people like Polamalu who will prevent the potentiality of that turning into a kind of short-lived fringe festival, people like James Farrior, like Ryan Clark, like Casey Hampton, Chris Kemoeatu, Nick Eason, James Harrison, Heath Miller and Chris Hoke.

"The oldest guys know how much better it is to have that bye week and have a home game," Hoke said, "and a lot of guys on this team have been in the playoffs as a No. 6 seed before, and as a No. 2, and they know it's a lot easier to win two games than three."

And that's where, it says here, leadership rules, regardless of its dogged position in the abstract. Often it's nothing more or less than awareness of the forces in play, in this case, the pure desperation that might well electrify a Browns team, beginning with these potentially last desperate hours in the Cleveland career of head coach Eric Mangini.

If Mangini wins Sunday, he can go to Browns bossman Mike Holmgren and remind him that this Cleveland team beat the defending Super Bowl champion Saints by two touchdowns, the presumed Super Bowl champs-in-waiting Patriots by three, and the all-time champ of Super Bowl champion Steelers right at their postseason doorstep. He can remind Holmgren that of the Browns' 10 losses, two were by two points, one by three, one by four, one in overtime by six and one by seven.

"A lot of those guys are getting evaluated to see who's coming back next year," Hoke said. "I remember here in 2003 when we went 6-10, coach Cowher telling us that he was evaluating our performance, evaluating our effort, and that if you were not playing hard, you were not going to be back."

The Browns, of course, are in this situation commonly, and frankly, they're pretty good at it. In their past eight season finales, they're 6-2. How sweet would it be within that culture for them to end the season by shoving the Steelers onto the postseason's thinnest ice?

Given all empirical evidence, that shouldn't happen.

Given these two words, it might: Joshua Cribbs.

No one has returned more kickoffs for touchdowns against the same team as has Cribbs. I don't have to tell you what team that is.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10364/11 ... z19cztGVEO (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10364/1114296-150.stm#ixzz19cztGVEO)

ScoreKeeper
12-30-2010, 04:36 PM
I'm torn on Mangini. I think he's a decent/good coach, but I don't know if he's a good enough HEAD coach to get a team over the hump.