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View Full Version : Tomlin finally Speaks out about Harrison Hits!!



Dee Dub
11-30-2010, 09:27 PM
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin declined Tuesday to debate whether Harrison should have been fined for the Fitzpatrick play. But Tomlin suggested Harrison needs to alter his tackling style to conform to the NFL's stricter enforcement of dangerous hits -- a toughened stance that was prompted, in part, by the Massaquoi hit.

"Obviously he does because the league doesn't agree with him," Tomlin said. "My opinion doesn't matter."

Tomlin also was asked if it's fair that the league keeps singling out Harrison for large fines.

"Man, life isn't fair," Tomlin said. "I'm not concerned about fairness. I'm really not. I'm concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens" on Sunday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5867825

Agreed 100%. It is time to move on guys. Steeler fans and the Steelers need to stop complaining and start conforming to what the league is asking whether we like it or not or think that it is fair. Winning football games should be the focus for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if James Harrison doesnt start to change his approach he is going to get suspended and winning games may become in jeopardy for the Steelers.

focosteeler
11-30-2010, 09:33 PM
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin declined Tuesday to debate whether Harrison should have been fined for the Fitzpatrick play. But Tomlin suggested Harrison needs to alter his tackling style to conform to the NFL's stricter enforcement of dangerous hits -- a toughened stance that was prompted, in part, by the Massaquoi hit.

"Obviously he does because the league doesn't agree with him," Tomlin said. "My opinion doesn't matter."

Tomlin also was asked if it's fair that the league keeps singling out Harrison for large fines.

"Man, life isn't fair," Tomlin said. "I'm not concerned about fairness. I'm really not. I'm concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens" on Sunday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5867825

Agreed 100%. It is time to move on guys. Steeler fans and the Steelers need to stop complaining and start conforming to what the league is asking whether we like it or not or think that it is fair. Winning football games should be the focus for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if James Harrison doesnt start to change his approach he is going to get suspended and winning games may become in jeopardy for the Steelers.


i know that life isn't fair and it sucks that he continues to get penalties called and fined...all im complaining about is the LACK of consistency in these calls around the rest of the league

jj28west
11-30-2010, 09:46 PM
I always felt the Steelers style of football was to punish, batter & bruise you physically & mentally. This philosophy is bigger then a figure head who carries a big stick right now.

I really wish there was a way to fight this and not just say "it is what it is" or "what can we do but move on."

Im a fan of good defense and that is why I rate the low scoring Baltimore/Pittsburgh game a couple years ago where Santonio scored as one of the greatest Steeler games. You had to fight for every yard by both teams.

I dont think you will find games like this anymore which is tragic IMO.

Remember when Woodley flipped around Phillip Rivers, Jason Campbell. He now may have to lay them on the ground gently like he is tucking them to bed.

California-Steel
11-30-2010, 09:53 PM
Suck to live under dictatorship doesn't it?

Shawn
11-30-2010, 10:50 PM
And Tomlin is 100% correct. Fairness doesn't matter. What matters is Harrison MUST conform to the leagues renewed focus on "proper tackling". If he doesn't he will continue to be fined, we will continue to lose yardage and he will eventually get suspended. Those are the facts. Does it matter if I agree with the league? Nope. Does it matter if Harrison or Tomlin agrees? Nope.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be some recourse from ownership. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be some bucking and fighting. But, it can't come from Harrison. He just needs to do what is being asked of him.

papillon
11-30-2010, 10:52 PM
I can honestly say these comments by Tomlin and the unleashing Hell comments are the only ones I don't agree with. He should be defending James, not agreeing with the retards that are ruining the league.

Pappy

Sugar
11-30-2010, 10:59 PM
I can honestly say these comments by Tomlin and the unleashing Hell comments are the only ones I don't agree with. He should be defending James, not agreeing with the retards that are ruining the league.

Pappy

I don't think he's agreeing. He's saying that they have to play with the cards that they are dealt.

papillon
11-30-2010, 11:12 PM
I can honestly say these comments by Tomlin and the unleashing Hell comments are the only ones I don't agree with. He should be defending James, not agreeing with the retards that are ruining the league.

Pappy

I don't think he's agreeing. He's saying that they have to play with the cards that they are dealt.

It's not the support that James Harrison should be receiving from his coach, IMO. He's playing between the whistles and getting fined for routine plays now. Ben's "fight" and the thrilla in Houston happened after the whistle and the players are fined the minimum amount. Players might as well wait for the whistle and take a cheap shot at the quarterback, it's less expensive than doing it between the whistles.

Pappy

Shawn
11-30-2010, 11:45 PM
I can honestly say these comments by Tomlin and the unleashing Hell comments are the only ones I don't agree with. He should be defending James, not agreeing with the retards that are ruining the league.

Pappy

I don't think he's agreeing. He's saying that they have to play with the cards that they are dealt.

Agreed. The facts are the facts....fair or unfair. It might feel good to pump a fist at the league and rebel with words and actions. But, is that the smart thing to do in this situation? I would argue...no. It will only hurt the team. Play the hand you are dealt in the smartest way possible. The smart play is compliance. Let Rooney do what he needs to do behind closed doors.

Sugar
11-30-2010, 11:54 PM
I can honestly say these comments by Tomlin and the unleashing Hell comments are the only ones I don't agree with. He should be defending James, not agreeing with the retards that are ruining the league.

Pappy

I don't think he's agreeing. He's saying that they have to play with the cards that they are dealt.

It's not the support that James Harrison should be receiving from his coach, IMO. He's playing between the whistles and getting fined for routine plays now. Ben's "fight" and the thrilla in Houston happened after the whistle and the players are fined the minimum amount. Players might as well wait for the whistle and take a cheap shot at the quarterback, it's less expensive than doing it between the whistles.

Pappy

What exactly would you have him do? He's already tried preemptivley praising Harrison's play (see the postgame PC after the Cleveland game). He's shown whatever support he can. IMO, the coach is making the appropriate comments.

flippy
12-01-2010, 12:21 AM
I kinda like Tomlin's approach here. And I'm sure it's an act. He's probably telling James to kill someone behind closed doors.

Meanwhile, he's killing Goodell with kindness.

hawaiiansteel
12-01-2010, 12:33 AM
Mike Tomlin on James Harrison fines: “He’s got two kids”

Posted by Michael David Smith on November 30, 2010, 7:17 PM EST

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/jamesharrison1.jpg?w=250

On the same day that Steelers linebacker James Harrison was fined another $25,000, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said he wants fans to think of Harrison’s children, and how they could be affected by how much money Harrison has lost in fines this year.

“I don’t care how much money you make. I take offense at times just in general how all of us talk about the money,” Tomlin told Alex Marvez and Rich Gannon on Sirius NFL Radio. “He’s got two kids. That’s some serious college schooling right there potentially for those kids 16, 18 years from now.”

Tomlin is going to have a hard time drumming up sympathy for Harrison on that front. Just with the money Harrison has made so far in his NFL career, he could have set aside enough to pay for both of his kids to get doctorates from Harvard and still have many millions of dollars left over. If the money Harrison has been fined this year is the difference between Harrison paying for his kids’ college education and his kids not being able to afford college, then Harrison has seriously mismanaged his money.

But Tomlin has been steadfast in his support of Harrison, who has now drawn $125,000 in fines this year.

“In regards to the penalties and fines, there’s no question it’s been troubling for him on a number of fronts,” Tomlin said. “This is a very disciplined and regimented guy. He doesn’t like the perception of being a dirty player. He’s not by any stretch.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-got-two-kids/

Dee Dub
12-01-2010, 01:09 AM
And Tomlin is 100% correct. Fairness doesn't matter. What matters is Harrison MUST conform to the leagues renewed focus on "proper tackling". If he doesn't he will continue to be fined, we will continue to lose yardage and he will eventually get suspended. Those are the facts. Does it matter if I agree with the league? Nope. Does it matter if Harrison or Tomlin agrees? Nope.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be some recourse from ownership. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be some bucking and fighting. But, it can't come from Harrison. He just needs to do what is being asked of him.


:Clap

Very well put Shawn.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-01-2010, 01:17 AM
If Goodell is so concerned about protecting QB's, why not just go all the way and make a rule that you can't hit them at all? Put little pink skirts on 'em, and if a defender so much as touches them, it results in ejection. That would be more fair than the way it is now--one set of rules for James Harrison, and another set of rules for the rest of the league.

Truth is, Goodell doesn't care about protecting players. If he did, why would he be working to expand the season to 18 games, and why would he be working against health care for the players?

Why does Rooney continue to kiss up to this clown? He should be exposing him for the fraud that he is. You don't have to just lay down and let the dictator take away the strength of your team; you don't have to stand by silently and watch him ruin the game. ARII could take a stand here, and use it as a motivating tool for his team--It's us against the league, us against the world. Call Goodell out, and give the world the video evidence of his double-standard.

hawaiiansteel
12-01-2010, 01:25 AM
Truth is, Goodell doesn't care about protecting players. If he did, why would he be working to expand the season to 18 games, and why would he be working against health care for the players?



great point, I completely agree...

Dee Dub
12-01-2010, 01:36 AM
I dont think some of you understand what it is that Goodell is doing and who he is doing it for. He works for the owners. He does what the owners want him to do. And that includes Mr. Rooney. They want the league's image to be cleaned up and they are doing it for the all mighty dollar. They want to expand the league world wide one day. The are playing games in London now and there is talk they may want to either have a super bowl there or even maybe an expansion team there. This takes marketing. This takes cleaning up an image that many outside of football dont agree with. The very same people they are trying to lure into football. The networks who are pouring out billions of dollars are behind a lot of this. These things will create more money for the owners. This is what is driving them. This is why they are threatening a lock out. They want more money and to share less with the players.

And personally I dont think any of the Rooney's care a dime about what is happening to James Harrison when it compares to their interest in the revenue that is out there being sought.

Remember this.....all 32 owners wanted Roger Goodell to be the commissioner to replace Tagliabue.

Oh and here is a little tasty bit to chew one...

from..http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2543783

NORTHBROOK, Ill. -- The knock on Roger Goodell's hotel room door came almost three hours to the minute after NFL owners began voting for a new commissioner.

When he opened it, there stood the Steelers' Dan Rooney. He didn't have to say a word.

For all the terrific accomplishments of the Tagliabue Era, for the nonpareil prosperity he has engendered in what has grown into a $6 billion-a-year industry, the NFL is not without storm clouds on the horizon. And those are storm clouds that, frankly, could make Goodell's honeymoon a brief one.

"When I saw Dan smiling, I knew it wasn't bad news," Goodell said Tuesday.

"I said from the beginning that we were going to look for the man to lead us," Rooney said he told the owners during the voting Wednesday afternoon. "I said that when we finished, I had no doubt that that was Roger Goodell."

hawaiiansteel
12-01-2010, 02:23 AM
On the Steelers: Tomlin says Harrison might have to change

Wednesday, December 01, 2010
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/201011/20101201steelers_500.jpg

Karl Walter/Getty Images
Steelers linebacker James Harrison was fined for a hit on Bills quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick this past Sunday.


Linebacker James Harrison threatened to retire when the NFL socked him with a $75,000 fine for what the league determined was an illegal hit in October.

That was six weeks and $50,000 in fines ago for Harrison.

After receiving his latest fine of $25,000 for roughing Bills quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick Sunday in Buffalo, it brought Harrison's total docked from his pay this season to $125,000 on four fines. The others:

• $5,000 for roughing Tennessee quarterback Vince Young.

• $75,000 for hitting Cleveland wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi high.

• $20,000 for a hit with his helmet to the back of New Orleans quarterback Drew Brees.

His appeal of the latter two fines was denied Monday by the NFL.

"James Harrison was fined $25,000 for roughing the passer, specifically he made helmet contact to the chest of the Buffalo quarterback, who was in a defenseless position at the time the contact was made" a league spokesman explained in an e-mail to the Post-Gazette.

Harrison might have to change his tackling technique.

"Obviously he does because the league doesn't agree with him," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said.

That is the first time Tomlin has acknowledged that Harrison must play differently as the fines have come hot and heavy this season from the league. Harrison was asked Sunday what Tomlin told him after the penalty. "He just told me to keep playing," Harrison said.

The three-time Pro Bowl linebacker has consistently defended his hits, as he did the one in Buffalo that drew a 15-yard penalty for roughing the passer.

"I didn't expect to get a flag," Harrison said right after the game. "I guess the referees are getting to the point to where they're afraid not to make a call if it's borderline. That's textbook, it doesn't get any better than that. Hit, wrap and I made sure to put my hands out so I didn't land on him, put my body weight on him or anything, but they still made the call."

The previous week, Harrison was penalized for roughing Oakland's Jesse Campbell on a sack when the referee explained that the linebacker landed with his full body weight on the quarterback. The league, however, did not fine Harrison, which on the face of it confirmed the linebacker's claims he did nothing wrong.

Harrison, who could not be reached Tuesday, said Sunday he did not expect a fine this time, either.

"It's the same exact thing as last week if you go back and look at the play from the Raiders. It was the same exact hit, I hit [Fitzpatrick] the same way as I did the quarterback from Oakland and I got the same flag but I didn't get a fine. I guess looking at it through the competition committee they felt like it wasn't fineable. I'm expecting the same thing on this ... I think it was a hit just like last week where they called the flag. I hit, wrapped, made sure I didn't land with my body weight on him, and they seemed to think differently. We'll see what happens as the week progresses."

Roughing up Big Ben

No flag was tossed by the officials Sunday in Buffalo after two Bills roughed up quarterback Ben Roethlisberger after sacking him, and Tomlin said he did not want to get into that topic either.

"What I said to the league is between me and the league," Tomlin said at his news conference Tuesday. "I don't have a response to that."

Replays clearly showed that Buffalo defensive end Marcus Stroud and linebacker Arthur Moats continued to work over Roethlisberger after he was on the ground.

Roethlisberger was in a walking boot Tuesday on his right foot, which is sprained. Roethlisberger had an X-ray of his foot in Buffalo but returned and did not miss an offensive play.

"He might be limited somewhat" in practice today, Tomlin said. "I'm going to be optimistic and hopeful that he'll be a full participant, but there's a chance that he couldn't be."

Byron Leftwich would play if Roethlisberger could not, Tomlin said.

Another flag day

The penalties have added up the past two games and Tomlin said there was good news and bad to go with them.

"More importantly than the penalties themselves, I liked the way that we collectively responded to adversity. There were many instances in the game we were getting penalties and -- boom! -- we were overcoming them immediately, whether it was the next play or converting a third down.

"I understand that that's not always going to be the case, and that's why I said moving forward this week, playing a team like Baltimore, we'd better be very cautious about putting ourselves into those circumstances. But largely throughout that game, I thought we were able to overcome the penalties that we sustained during the course of drives, at least offensively."

The Steelers set a team record with 163 yards Nov. 21 on 14 penalties against Oakland. They had 107 yards on 10 penalties in Buffalo, at least those that were accepted. Guard Chris Kemoeatu had four holding penalties, three of them accepted by the Bills.

The Steelers have been penalized 653 yards on 72 calls this season compared to their opponents' 511 yards on 58 calls. The Steelers had 769 yards on 85 penalties last season.

Injury update

Tomlin sounded optimistic on the rest of his team's laundry list of injuries.

Troy Polamalu (Achilles strain) will not practice much again for the third week in a row. Nick Eason (knee MCL sprain), Bryant McFadden (hamstring) and Antonio Brown (knee) all look as if they can play Sunday. Matt Spaeth will have another concussion test this morning to determine where he stands. Brett Keisel (hamstring/calf) will participate fully in practice although he did so last week as well and was scratched for the fifth time in the past six games.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10335/11 ... z16q2UO0Ym (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10335/1107245-66.stm#ixzz16q2UO0Ym)

brothervad
12-01-2010, 02:49 AM
And here is where a league like the UFL might find an opening...

Mind you it's not a big opening...just a slight door ajar

Market your game as a hard hitting product that is old school defense....call your league a Man's league.

Gradually grow it until you get enough cash to start plucking away big name defensive players.

Not sure it will work, but honestly...if this stupid underneath Brady crap becomes every teams offense and defense is soft...I won't watch it.

The Steelers will become a shell of what they once were...I can't waste my time on this laser show.

brothervad

Mister Pittsburgh
12-01-2010, 08:35 AM
I keep seeing that Harrison must conform to the new NFL rules, etc......

Can anyone tell me what then he must do when running full speed at a QB in pursuit of a sack? How is he legally supposed to tackle the QB? All shoulder into the QB's midsection? You can't go lower than waist or they will call you going low as we saw a call on Casey earlier in the season where he hit the QB in the thigh after being tripped by the OL and he slid down on the way to the ground and it was a flag for going low. You can't drive your facemask into the QB's chest cause if when he drops your helmet hits his helmet, it is a flag.

Is there pretty much a strike zone now in the NFL on QB's that is between the letters and the waist and it must be contacted by the defenders shoulder only? And when the QB's fall the defender must remain standing as if he falls at all on the QB then you are flagged for all your weight landing on them?

By the way, I just saw the hit on Ben this morning where the two defenders are turning him into a pretzel and am sick to my stomach seeing how he can be beat down, yet all other QB's are off limits. He can be punched in the face, thrown in an MMA armbar, kneed, whatever, and it is all good?

Ghost
12-01-2010, 09:10 AM
Sucker punching a QB in the face AFTER the play is over - $25K fine

2 Guys ripping off each other's helmets, one of them throwing multiple haymakers that land on the others head AFTER the play is over - $25K fine

Tackling a QB (something you've been taught since pee wee league) in the context of a close game while play is live, trying to make a big defensive play - $25K Fine

This is complete horse sh!t.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-01-2010, 10:02 AM
Sucker punching a QB in the face AFTER the play is over - $25K fine

2 Guys ripping off each other's helmets, one of them throwing multiple haymakers that land on the others head AFTER the play is over - $25K fine

Tackling a QB (something you've been taught since pee wee league) in the context of a close game while play is live, trying to make a big defensive play - $25K Fine

This is complete horse sh!t.
$$$$

Goodell's goal may be expansion and money, but he's going to bring the ruination of the sport, which will, in the end, lead to DECREASED revenues.

Dee Dub, you say they're "cleaning it up" for the Brits? Give me a break! They take out the hitting, they will eliminate one of the most important qualities that sets American football apart and gives it special appeal.

Let's just change the name to "pansyball," Mr. Commissioner, and I hope when they do that they stamp the likeness of your sorry face below the title.

I'd like to see a rival league, where they continue to play REAL football, rise up and
smack down Goodell's (per)version of the NFL.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-01-2010, 10:11 AM
Dee Dub, answer these questions. How are they "cleaning up the league's image" when they are so arbitrary in who they fine for "illegal" hits? How are they "cleaning up the league's image" when they treat punching someone in the face after the whistle the same, or even LESS severely, than tackles and hits applied during the course of play? Seems to me that, intentionally or not, they are really working to TARNISH the league's image.

papillon
12-01-2010, 11:40 AM
I dont think some of you understand what it is that Goodell is doing and who he is doing it for. He works for the owners. He does what the owners want him to do. And that includes Mr. Rooney. They want the league's image to be cleaned up and they are doing it for the all mighty dollar. They want to expand the league world wide one day. The are playing games in London now and there is talk they may want to either have a super bowl there or even maybe an expansion team there. This takes marketing. This takes cleaning up an image that many outside of football dont agree with. The very same people they are trying to lure into football. The networks who are pouring out billions of dollars are behind a lot of this. These things will create more money for the owners. This is what is driving them. This is why they are threatening a lock out. They want more money and to share less with the players.

And personally I dont think any of the Rooney's care a dime about what is happening to James Harrison when it compares to their interest in the revenue that is out there being sought.

Remember this.....all 32 owners wanted Roger Goodell to be the commissioner to replace Tagliabue.

Oh and here is a little tasty bit to chew one...

from..http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2543783

NORTHBROOK, Ill. -- The knock on Roger Goodell's hotel room door came almost three hours to the minute after NFL owners began voting for a new commissioner.

When he opened it, there stood the Steelers' Dan Rooney. He didn't have to say a word.

For all the terrific accomplishments of the Tagliabue Era, for the nonpareil prosperity he has engendered in what has grown into a $6 billion-a-year industry, the NFL is not without storm clouds on the horizon. And those are storm clouds that, frankly, could make Goodell's honeymoon a brief one.

"When I saw Dan smiling, I knew it wasn't bad news," Goodell said Tuesday.

"I said from the beginning that we were going to look for the man to lead us," Rooney said he told the owners during the voting Wednesday afternoon. "I said that when we finished, I had no doubt that that was Roger Goodell."

Nothing is getting cleaned up by the league. As a matter of fact I would say that more and more fans are becoming disillusioned with the product on the field. The fines are arbitrary, penalties are arbitrary, officiating continues to deteriorate week-by-week, the NFLPA is sitting idly by and watching the farce that is NFL football right now and the owners may be in bed with the NFL, but they can't be happy about what they are seeing right now.

Pappy

Dee Dub
12-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Wow!! I am not saying the league is wanting to clean up its image. This is what the league and the commissioner himself has said. I guess if you can’t see the forest through the trees you probably won’t get it.

I think some of you need to wake up. You are not seeing clearly what is going on behind those "This Isnt Fair Glasses".

papillon
12-01-2010, 12:16 PM
Wow!! I am not saying the league is wanting to clean up its image. This is what the league and the commissioner himself has said. I guess if you can’t see the forest through the trees you probably won’t get it.

I think some of you need to wake up. You are not seeing clearly what is going on behind those "This Isnt Fair Glasses".

Regardless, of what you said, but it certainly sounded like you believe they are doing this to clean up the NFL, anyhow, the product on the field is in decline right now, whether I believe it's fair or not.

I watch Steeler games and that's it and, truth be told, if there's something better to do I'll miss Steeler games as well. It's getting to be impossible to watch a game, they all lack continuity, penalties are way too subjective, arbitrary and frequent, booth reviews take forever, it's becoming impossible to play defense the "NFL way" and commercials occur any time there's a stoppage of play for more than 30 seconds.

I guess if you're into each quarterback dropping back 40-45 times a game and not really being allowed to be hit and throwing for 300-350 yards like it's a 7 on 7 drill mid-week at practice then the "new" NFL is for you.

If you grew up watching football in the 70s and 80s when defense were actually part of the game then this "new" game isn't for you. It's not for me, I hate it.

I have no problem watching a game with a final score 14-13 or 21-17 or 10-9 or 10-0, etc., I enjoy watching both offense and defense, it's almost futile now to play defense.

It has nothing to do with fair or unfair, it's just plain bad right now.

Pappy

ikestops85
12-01-2010, 12:16 PM
Wow!! I am not saying the league is wanting to clean up its image. This is what the league and the commissioner himself has said. I guess if you can’t see the forest through the trees you probably won’t get it.

I think some of you need to wake up. You are not seeing clearly what is going on behind those "This Isnt Fair Glasses".

I'm not sure by what you mean when you or the Czar say they want to clean up their image. Their image is dominated by hard hits and people saying "Wow, did you see that hit?". I think it is silly that they want to change that image but hey, I'm not in charge.

What my beef is Harrison watches tape of other games and sees the exact same hits being done by other players and not a word is spoken. He gets fined and they don't. Ryan Clark has to wonder why he draws a flag but the hit on Hines Ward does not. That is what most of the b!tching and moaning is about. We hate the inconsistency of it all. If I'm Harrison I would be going nuts.

Sure, we would complain about the pussification of the league but so would everybody else. In fact if you go on other teams sites you will see that feelings about Goodell are fairly consistent. My perception is the vast majority think he is ruining football. I certainly think he is.

Northern_Blitz
12-01-2010, 12:25 PM
If Goodell is so concerned about protecting QB's, why not just go all the way and make a rule that you can't hit them at all? Put little pink skirts on 'em, and if a defender so much as touches them, it results in ejection. That would be more fair than the way it is now--one set of rules for James Harrison, and another set of rules for the rest of the league.

Truth is, Goodell doesn't care about protecting players. If he did, why would he be working to expand the season to 18 games, and why would he be working against health care for the players?

Why does Rooney continue to kiss up to this clown? He should be exposing him for the fraud that he is. You don't have to just lay down and let the dictator take away the strength of your team; you don't have to stand by silently and watch him ruin the game. ARII could take a stand here, and use it as a motivating tool for his team--It's us against the league, us against the world. Call Goodell out, and give the world the video evidence of his double-standard.

If our last game doesn't have playoff implications, I hope that we go out and play two hand touch. Give fans a preview of what the league will be in the future.

Ghost
12-01-2010, 01:12 PM
If you grew up watching football in the 70s and 80s when defense were actually part of the game then this "new" game isn't for you. It's not for me, I hate it.

I have no problem watching a game with a final score 14-13 or 21-17 or 10-9 or 10-0, etc., I enjoy watching both offense and defense, it's almost futile now to play defense.

Unfortunately Pap, you are no longer the target audience. Gone are the days where the NFL wants to see hard fought, close, low scoring games. The masses don't like it and want it to be 35 - 28 or more.

Now we have chicks in pink jerseys/hats, premium seats occupied by people who'd rather be on their cell phone all game, people who don't have the attention span to watch close defensive struggles, audiences who've grown up playing Madden instead of out in the back yard playing actual tackle football with thier buddies.

And ratings have never been higher.

The days of Jack Lambert - "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play " are forever gone.

focosteeler
12-01-2010, 01:33 PM
I keep seeing that Harrison must conform to the new NFL rules, etc......

Can anyone tell me what then he must do when running full speed at a QB in pursuit of a sack? How is he legally supposed to tackle the QB? All shoulder into the QB's midsection? You can't go lower than waist or they will call you going low as we saw a call on Casey earlier in the season where he hit the QB in the thigh after being tripped by the OL and he slid down on the way to the ground and it was a flag for going low. You can't drive your facemask into the QB's chest cause if when he drops your helmet hits his helmet, it is a flag.

Is there pretty much a strike zone now in the NFL on QB's that is between the letters and the waist and it must be contacted by the defenders shoulder only? And when the QB's fall the defender must remain standing as if he falls at all on the QB then you are flagged for all your weight landing on them?

By the way, I just saw the hit on Ben this morning where the two defenders are turning him into a pretzel and am sick to my stomach seeing how he can be beat down, yet all other QB's are off limits. He can be punched in the face, thrown in an MMA armbar, kneed, whatever, and it is all good?


its like they want him to run up and bear-hug the qb and just hold on till the whistle is blown...i can see something similar to what happened to the giants awhile ago, don't remember the name or who it was against but the guy thought they were going to blow the whistle and they didnt. i can see harrison pulling up on a qb and the qb doesnt end up throwing the ball but instead runs for a 1st...if that happens he will kill someone the next play.

papillon
12-01-2010, 01:46 PM
If you grew up watching football in the 70s and 80s when defense were actually part of the game then this "new" game isn't for you. It's not for me, I hate it.

I have no problem watching a game with a final score 14-13 or 21-17 or 10-9 or 10-0, etc., I enjoy watching both offense and defense, it's almost futile now to play defense.

Unfortunately Pap, you are no longer the target audience. Gone are the days where the NFL wants to see hard fought, close, low scoring games. The masses don't like it and want it to be 35 - 28 or more.

Now we have chicks in pink jerseys/hats, premium seats occupied by people who'd rather be on their cell phone all game, people who don't have the attention span to watch close defensive struggles, audiences who've grown up playing Madden instead of out in the back yard playing actual tackle football with thier buddies.

And ratings have never been higher.

The days of Jack Lambert - "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play " are forever gone.

Probably true and that's exactly why I basically watch Steeler games and nothing else related to the NFL. Once the Steelers are done I don't even watch the playoffs, I'll watch the Super Bowl, because chances are we'll be at a party, otherwise, I'd pass on that too unless the Steelers were playing.

I guess it's time for others to support the NFL; I've done it for 30 plus years, it's someone else's turn and they get to determine what they watch not me.

On another note, with the labor dispute looming if anyone wants to try and be the Lamar Hunt of the 21st century this is the time to do it.

Pappy

NW Steeler
12-01-2010, 02:02 PM
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin declined Tuesday to debate whether Harrison should have been fined for the Fitzpatrick play. But Tomlin suggested Harrison needs to alter his tackling style to conform to the NFL's stricter enforcement of dangerous hits -- a toughened stance that was prompted, in part, by the Massaquoi hit.

"Obviously he does because the league doesn't agree with him," Tomlin said. "My opinion doesn't matter."

Tomlin also was asked if it's fair that the league keeps singling out Harrison for large fines.

"Man, life isn't fair," Tomlin said. "I'm not concerned about fairness. I'm really not. I'm concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens" on Sunday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5867825

Agreed 100%. It is time to move on guys. Steeler fans and the Steelers need to stop complaining and start conforming to what the league is asking whether we like it or not or think that it is fair. Winning football games should be the focus for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if James Harrison doesnt start to change his approach he is going to get suspended and winning games may become in jeopardy for the Steelers.


i know that life isn't fair and it sucks that he continues to get penalties called and fined...all im complaining about is the LACK of consistency in these calls around the rest of the league

I agree with you 100% That call on Sunday for his hit on the Buffalo QB was complete bullsh!t. And even if the call was borderline, Harrison should not have been fined for it.

NW Steeler
12-01-2010, 02:04 PM
Sucker punching a QB in the face AFTER the play is over - $25K fine

2 Guys ripping off each other's helmets, one of them throwing multiple haymakers that land on the others head AFTER the play is over - $25K fine

Tackling a QB (something you've been taught since pee wee league) in the context of a close game while play is live, trying to make a big defensive play - $25K Fine

This is complete horse sh!t.

Absolutely! Complete HORSE SH!T. I wonder what the tally will be after Sunday night game. We may exceed $200K in fines!

feltdizz
12-01-2010, 04:37 PM
Dee Dub is right. Goodell is the mouthpiece for the 32 owners and all thy care about is making money. All the talk about the owners rising up against Goodell is hot air... The owners want less injuries, more games, more excitement and more money.

ikestops85
12-01-2010, 05:10 PM
I keep seeing that Harrison must conform to the new NFL rules, etc......

Can anyone tell me what then he must do when running full speed at a QB in pursuit of a sack? How is he legally supposed to tackle the QB? All shoulder into the QB's midsection? You can't go lower than waist or they will call you going low as we saw a call on Casey earlier in the season where he hit the QB in the thigh after being tripped by the OL and he slid down on the way to the ground and it was a flag for going low. You can't drive your facemask into the QB's chest cause if when he drops your helmet hits his helmet, it is a flag.

Is there pretty much a strike zone now in the NFL on QB's that is between the letters and the waist and it must be contacted by the defenders shoulder only? And when the QB's fall the defender must remain standing as if he falls at all on the QB then you are flagged for all your weight landing on them?

By the way, I just saw the hit on Ben this morning where the two defenders are turning him into a pretzel and am sick to my stomach seeing how he can be beat down, yet all other QB's are off limits. He can be punched in the face, thrown in an MMA armbar, kneed, whatever, and it is all good?


its like they want him to run up and bear-hug the qb and just hold on till the whistle is blown...i can see something similar to what happened to the giants awhile ago, don't remember the name or who it was against but the guy thought they were going to blow the whistle and they didnt. i can see harrison pulling up on a qb and the qb doesnt end up throwing the ball but instead runs for a 1st...if that happens he will kill someone the next play.

It was Kiwanuka of the Giants had a hold of Vince Young on a 4th and 10 play with under 2 minutes to go in the game. They had been emphasizing the 'in the grasp' that year and Kiwanuka didn't want to get a roughing call (sound familiar?) so he let's Young go thinking the play is dead. The ref never blew the whistle and Young scrambles for a 19 yard gain. That was the key play because the Titans ultimately scored on that drive and it was the game winner.

I keep hoping this doesn't happen to us but the climate is right for it to happen.

birtikidis
12-01-2010, 05:28 PM
They were just talking about Ben being in a walking boot today... they showed the hit and the twist that caused the injury... how that wasn't fineable is beyond me. talk about after the whistle and unneccessary..

SteelTorch
12-01-2010, 05:38 PM
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin declined Tuesday to debate whether Harrison should have been fined for the Fitzpatrick play. But Tomlin suggested Harrison needs to alter his tackling style to conform to the NFL's stricter enforcement of dangerous hits -- a toughened stance that was prompted, in part, by the Massaquoi hit.

"Obviously he does because the league doesn't agree with him," Tomlin said. "My opinion doesn't matter."

Tomlin also was asked if it's fair that the league keeps singling out Harrison for large fines.

"Man, life isn't fair," Tomlin said. "I'm not concerned about fairness. I'm really not. I'm concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens" on Sunday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5867825

Agreed 100%. It is time to move on guys. Steeler fans and the Steelers need to stop complaining and start conforming to what the league is asking whether we like it or not or think that it is fair. Winning football games should be the focus for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if James Harrison doesnt start to change his approach he is going to get suspended and winning games may become in jeopardy for the Steelers.
If you think the players should just grin and bear it in the face of obvious unfairness, then in the words of Cheney, "Go f*** yourself." :P

BURGH86STEEL
12-01-2010, 06:11 PM
He put a bullseye on his back with the comments he made about hurting people. He has no one to blame but himself. That being said, not all of punishments or flags were fair.

Harrison needs to change his approach in the way he leads with his helmet. If he can't, he will continue to hurt the team.

Sugar
12-01-2010, 06:29 PM
Part of what people love about the NFL is the combat sport aspect of it. The fastest growing sport in the US is MMA. It's eclipsing my favorite sport of boxing for many reasons. One of those reasons is that Americans love big men hitting each other. Think of the likes of Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis or in other era's Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Jack Dempsey or the great Joe Louis. All of these were tough men.

Think of the current champ, Wladimir Klitscko. He's a 6'7" adonis with an Olympic Gold medal and amazing technique, strength, power and athletecism. He's also boring as all get out preferring to safely hide behind his range and jab. Nobody wants to see a guy like that "running" from a guy. Thus, Americans watch the rough and tumble world of MMA where the combatants try to rip each others heads off (even if it looks to me like they are humping their legs).

My point is this- the NFL has become popular due to it's combat/gaming nature. One doesn't do well without the other. It's that salty-sweet combination that has the masses coming back for more. It's a game of crushing blows and amazing grace. If it loses that, it becomes like basketball- somewhat exciting but not nearly as cool as it could be.

jj28west
12-01-2010, 08:19 PM
Wow!! I am not saying the league is wanting to clean up its image. This is what the league and the commissioner himself has said. I guess if you can’t see the forest through the trees you probably won’t get it.

I think some of you need to wake up. You are not seeing clearly what is going on behind those "This Isnt Fair Glasses".

Regardless, of what you said, but it certainly sounded like you believe they are doing this to clean up the NFL, anyhow, the product on the field is in decline right now, whether I believe it's fair or not.

I watch Steeler games and that's it and, truth be told, if there's something better to do I'll miss Steeler games as well. It's getting to be impossible to watch a game, they all lack continuity, penalties are way too subjective, arbitrary and frequent, booth reviews take forever, it's becoming impossible to play defense the "NFL way" and commercials occur any time there's a stoppage of play for more than 30 seconds.

I guess if you're into each quarterback dropping back 40-45 times a game and not really being allowed to be hit and throwing for 300-350 yards like it's a 7 on 7 drill mid-week at practice then the "new" NFL is for you.

If you grew up watching football in the 70s and 80s when defense were actually part of the game then this "new" game isn't for you. It's not for me, I hate it.

I have no problem watching a game with a final score 14-13 or 21-17 or 10-9 or 10-0, etc., I enjoy watching both offense and defense, it's almost futile now to play defense.

It has nothing to do with fair or unfair, it's just plain bad right now.

Pappy

Great points that I can relate to. The attractiveness of the game is being marketed so differently but the bean counters must have figured out that this is the right direction to go in for this new brand of football.

SteelTorch
12-01-2010, 08:54 PM
He put a bullseye on his back with the comments he made about hurting people. He has no one to blame but himself. That being said, not all of punishments or flags were fair.

Harrison needs to change his approach in the way he leads with his helmet. If he can't, he will continue to hurt the team.
With all due respect, Harrison's style of play was never an issue until now. They are trying to make an example out of him, nothing more. And his play hasn't hurt the team, it's the over-cautious refs who throw flags when none are warranted.

Dee Dub
12-01-2010, 09:22 PM
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin declined Tuesday to debate whether Harrison should have been fined for the Fitzpatrick play. But Tomlin suggested Harrison needs to alter his tackling style to conform to the NFL's stricter enforcement of dangerous hits -- a toughened stance that was prompted, in part, by the Massaquoi hit.

"Obviously he does because the league doesn't agree with him," Tomlin said. "My opinion doesn't matter."

Tomlin also was asked if it's fair that the league keeps singling out Harrison for large fines.

"Man, life isn't fair," Tomlin said. "I'm not concerned about fairness. I'm really not. I'm concerned about preparing for the Baltimore Ravens" on Sunday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5867825

Agreed 100%. It is time to move on guys. Steeler fans and the Steelers need to stop complaining and start conforming to what the league is asking whether we like it or not or think that it is fair. Winning football games should be the focus for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if James Harrison doesnt start to change his approach he is going to get suspended and winning games may become in jeopardy for the Steelers.
If you think the players should just grin and bear it in the face of obvious unfairness, then in the words of Cheney, "Go f*** yourself." :P

Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

BURGH86STEEL
12-01-2010, 09:28 PM
He put a bullseye on his back with the comments he made about hurting people. He has no one to blame but himself. That being said, not all of punishments or flags were fair.

Harrison needs to change his approach in the way he leads with his helmet. If he can't, he will continue to hurt the team.
With all due respect, Harrison's style of play was never an issue until now. They are trying to make an example out of him, nothing more. And his play hasn't hurt the team, it's the over-cautious refs who throw flags when none are warranted.

His style of play is fine. Leading with his helmet to tackle what the league deems as defenseless players is the issue. The rule enforcement may not be popular. I suspect there were many rule changes and enforcements that were not popular in the past. It is what it is right now. Players need to adjust like they did in the past.

Harrison gave the league a reason a league to look at his style more closely when he stated he wanted to hurt people. Harrison gave the ref a reason to throw the flag. He gave the league a reason to fine him. Not all of the penalties or fines were fair. There were some that were against the rule. I think the hit on Fitzpatrick was a good example of what not to do. I felt Harrison lead with his helmet on that particular play.

I can care less if the league wants to fine Harrison. It's not my money. Those 15 yard penalties hurt the team.

SteelTorch
12-01-2010, 09:37 PM
His style of play is fine. Leading with his helmet to tackle what the league deems as defenseless players is the issue. The rule enforcement may not be popular. I suspect there were many rule changes and enforcements that were not popular in the past. It is what it is right now. Players need to adjust like they did in the past.

Harrison gave the league a reason a league to look at his style more closely when he stated he wanted to hurt people. Harrison gave the ref a reason to throw the flag. He gave the league a reason to fine him. Not all of the penalties or fines were fair. There were some that were against the rule. I think the hit on Fitzpatrick was a good example of what not to do. I felt Harrison lead with his helmet on that particular play.

I can care less if the league wants to fine Harrison. It's not my money. Those 15 yard penalties hurt the team.
That's where I disagree - Harrison said he likes to hurt people, NOT injure them. The only reason they are targeting him now is because of his reputation, not because he plays dirtier than any other player in the league. He didn't give the league a reason to fine him, they decided to target him while ignoring other more serious offenses.

BURGH86STEEL
12-01-2010, 09:59 PM
His style of play is fine. Leading with his helmet to tackle what the league deems as defenseless players is the issue. The rule enforcement may not be popular. I suspect there were many rule changes and enforcements that were not popular in the past. It is what it is right now. Players need to adjust like they did in the past.

Harrison gave the league a reason a league to look at his style more closely when he stated he wanted to hurt people. Harrison gave the ref a reason to throw the flag. He gave the league a reason to fine him. Not all of the penalties or fines were fair. There were some that were against the rule. I think the hit on Fitzpatrick was a good example of what not to do. I felt Harrison lead with his helmet on that particular play.

I can care less if the league wants to fine Harrison. It's not my money. Those 15 yard penalties hurt the team.
That's where I disagree - Harrison said he likes to hurt people, NOT injure them. The only reason they are targeting him now is because of his reputation, not because he plays dirtier than any other player in the league. He didn't give the league a reason to fine him, they decided to target him while ignoring other more serious offenses.

I can understand why some people took the words HURT PEOPLE in a negative fashion. Some things are better left unsaid. HE put that target on his back with those words.

I never thought of Harrison as a dirty player. Regardless if he is being targeted, he needs to change the way he leads with his helmet. Give those who are targeting him less reason to throw flags or fine him. NOT leading with his helmet might go a long way in limiting his chances of being fined or flagged.

It doesn't matter what you or I think of the rules. The players must adjust whether we agree or disagree with the rules.

eniparadoxgma
12-01-2010, 10:37 PM
Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

You're in the wrong forum.

skyhawk
12-01-2010, 11:12 PM
He put a bullseye on his back with the comments he made about hurting people. He has no one to blame but himself. That being said, not all of punishments or flags were fair.

Harrison needs to change his approach in the way he leads with his helmet. If he can't, he will continue to hurt the team.

BS. Harrison doesn't "lead" with his helmet any more or less than most defenders in the NFL. He just hits much harder and should be a candidate for DPOY.

I am so sick and tired of the "lead with the helmet" phrase. How are guys supposed to hit. As long as someone doesn't obviousl have their head DOWN in spearing position it's impossible not to have the helmet involved at times. Those things are huge.

I say the best way to prevent this complaining is to have the players NOT wear helmets or reduce their size. :HeadBanger

papillon
12-01-2010, 11:14 PM
Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

You're in the wrong forum.

It's one post Eni, don't panic if it continues he'll be warned.

Pappy

sentinel33
12-01-2010, 11:58 PM
they should just make the QB off limits to tackles. period. you can shove him. but you cant wrap him up. you can grab him with your hands and throw him to the ground but you cant tackle him. no more issues. of course there will be no need for sack stats anymore cause it wouldnt be a sack. but that will put more points on the board. which is what people want to see i guess. im gonna miss defensive showdowns. whats the point in playing defense anymore if one continues to tweak the rules in favor of the offense. DB's are gonna become a seriously hot commodity very soon. so are lb's like timmons. we will still see crushing hits. it just wont be on the qb. if they have a specific area that you can hit a qb and you can only use certain parts of your body to do that and you are flying around the corner at 1.21 jiggawatts how can that be officiated. its pretty obvious that it cant be officiated. its gonna be a "cant tackle the qb" league very soon.

eniparadoxgma
12-02-2010, 01:44 AM
Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

You're in the wrong forum.

It's one post Eni, don't panic if it continues he'll be warned.

Pappy

It's not panic. :twisted:

Dee Dub
12-02-2010, 02:29 PM
Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

You're in the wrong forum.

No problem. I understand. Question....where does his post belong?


If you think the players should just grin and bear it in the face of obvious unfairness, then in the words of Cheney, "Go f*** yourself." :P

Shawn
12-02-2010, 03:30 PM
Dee you do have a point. One of the rules of this forum is to not bypass the filter. If people wish not to read about one's spiritual beliefs then I believe it also fair for others not to have to read foul language.

I have seen members use the Lord's name in vain here. Now, I realize most think that to be a small thing. Personally, it bothers me and I do not consider it a small thing. It bothers me, to have to read it anywhere but especially at work where I often read the forums.

Just my 2 cents.

feltdizz
12-02-2010, 04:38 PM
so now people are complaining about the rules of the forum in a thread bemoaning the rule changes of the NFL?

8)

Shawn
12-02-2010, 04:47 PM
so now people are complaining about the rules of the forum in a thread bemoaning the rule changes of the NFL?

8)

I haven't seen any complaing about the rules, just merely asking for people to adhere to them.

eniparadoxgma
12-02-2010, 10:14 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":27euuds8]
Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

You're in the wrong forum.

No problem. I understand. Question....where does his post belong?


If you think the players should just grin and bear it in the face of obvious unfairness, then in the words of Cheney, "Go f*** yourself." :P[/quote:27euuds8]

Two wrongs don't make a right. :stirpot

SteelTorch
12-02-2010, 11:03 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2kpb11hy]
Nice. I dont need to ask if you have Christ in your heart do I? I do....and I am praying that one day you will too.

You're in the wrong forum.

No problem. I understand. Question....where does his post belong?


If you think the players should just grin and bear it in the face of obvious unfairness, then in the words of Cheney, "Go f*** yourself." :P

Two wrongs don't make a right. :stirpot[/quote:2kpb11hy]
I DO have Christ in my heart. Problem is, he has to take a lunch break sometimes. :P