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hawaiiansteel
11-25-2010, 11:14 PM
Chat with Mel Kiper


Welcome to SportsNation! On Wednesday, NFL draft guru Mel Kiper Jr. will be by to discuss the college football and NFL seasons.

Kiper has served as expert analyst for ESPN's annual NFL draft coverage since 1984. His pre-draft predictions are frequently the most accurate. Kiper is also analyst for College GameDay on ESPN Radio. He also contributes to SportsCenter and ESPN.com.

We've got Mel!
Mel Kiper (1:03 PM)

Finally, Thanksgiving weekend. We've got football Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. a great weekend of NFL action.
Chad (Las Vegas)

Mallet vs Peterson this weekend. Is there a better QB vs CB matchup in CFB?
Mel Kiper (1:05 PM)

No, that's the one. I'm waiting to see how Peterson does in this game. Prince Amukamara is right there with him. I haven't decided which corner I will ultimately have No. 1. I think Amukamara is the more technically more sound corner, but Peterson is a great return man. This is a huge game for Peterson against Mallet. It will be a great matchup for an evaluation standpoint.
Greg (Dallas)

Mel Please tell me there will be a LT available when the Cowboys draft in the top 7 that will be worth taking.
Mel Kiper (1:07 PM)

I don't think there will be one worth them taking there. The top four guys are projected to go between 15-25. They're not in the top 10. The Senior Bowl will be important. It could be where one of the top four elevates. Ben Ijalana is a I-AA sleeper type who could be in the late first, early second round mix after the top 4.
luke (Pittsburgh, Pa)

Mel,In terms of quarterbacks, how do you see this year stacking up? Other than Luck, do you see Mallet or Locker as comparable, talent-wise to Bradford last year?
Mel Kiper (1:09 PM)

No, the only one that would be comparable to Bradford is Luck. Luck's No. 1 on the board. Last year turned out to be a pretty good year overall. Bradford, McCoy, Clausen and of course Tebow. This year's group will have Luck, Mallet, Newton, Locker. Mallet is the Clausen of this year. Luck is the Bradford of this year. Locker is in a totally different category. He was the No. 1 overall player coming in and he's No. 21 right now. He has a lot of work to do in the next five months before the draft. The senior that has moved up a lot is Ricky Stanzi. He could be a second or third round pick. There are a lot of those overachiever types this year that will figure into the later rounds.
Marc (East Brunswick, NJ)

Are your Ravens the real deal this year? Flacco is legit indeed and they seem to have all the pieces, superior at nothing but weak nowhere.
Mel Kiper (1:12 PM)

I picked the Ravens to go to the Super Bowl, a slight edge over New England. They've been a solid team all year. They won at Pittsburgh. They won at the Jets. They nearly won at New England and at Atlanta. They played four tough playoff teams and went 2-2 and could have gone 4-0. They have Tampa Bay, the Cinderella team of the year. Tampa has had some great play from Freeman. They need McCoy to step up. He's been no where near as good as Suh. The next five weeks for the Ravens is tough. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Houston, New Orleans, Cleveland. Very challenging. Fortunately for them, three of the next four are at home. The concern I still have is they don't get a good pass rush unless they blitz.
Mel Kiper (1:13 PM)

The real underrated part of the Ravens is Billy Cundiff. His kickoffs are deep into the end zone without a return. He's the best kickoff guy in the league.
Adam (Indiana)

Mel, Happy Early Thanksgiving! How did you grade Steve Johnson (Buffalo) coming out of the draft? This guy looks like a steal ... I thought he was small, he is listed at 6'2, with a huge upside in speed ... is he the real deal? (Did he play with Andre Woodson from Kentucky, man that guy was a stud in college!)
Mel Kiper (1:15 PM)

I said "he deserves consideration as a late round prospect. He was the go-to guy at Kentucky. Excellent size. Good hands. Can make things happen after the catch. Runs with power and toughness. The biggest question is he lacks top end speed." The straight line speed and the 4.6 40 was the question. I gave him a 5-6 round grade. He's done a heckuva job. He and Fitzpatrick have had some synergy going on as QB-WR.
Nathan (Coralville, IA)

What do you think happens to Vince Young? Do you think he's getting a raw deal from the Titans? If the Eagles trade Kolb, I think he'd be a great backup to Vick...
Mel Kiper (1:17 PM)

I think his emotions got the best of him. This is a team that's not had a lot of success this year at home. They lost to Pittsburgh, Denver at home. They were out played by the Eagles through three quarters, but pulled it out. They hadn't been home since Oct. 24 and they lay an egg. The pressure mounts and his emotions got the best of him. I think he's felt underappreciated by the fans. And now he's out for the year and he's in the doghouse. This team has a major issue at QB now.
paul (mississippi )

how big of an impact do you think vincent jackson is gonna have on the chargers already dynamtic passing game
Mel Kiper (1:20 PM)

He's a heckuva player. To get him back now and this late season surge they historically make will help. The tough game is this week against Indy. They were 2-5 and are now 5-5. They have three straight home games after this week and have three winnable games. It's conceivable that the Chargers might not lose another regular season game. At worst in the remaining 6 games they go 5-1. They'll win that division. This week is a critical week. Give AJ Smith credit. He's done a good job of his evaluations. Give Rivers credit too.
Nick (ponca city,oklahoma)

Where do you see demarco murray going in the draft? and do you think demarco murray's injury history might hurt his draft stock
Mel Kiper (1:21 PM)

I'd say he goes somewhere in the second round area. He's an outstanding pass receiver out of the backfield. He's been more decisive as a runner this year. Better in short yardage. He's definitely a guy who has a chance to be a second round pick. He's an extension of your receiver core because he can catch the ball downfield.
Adam (Elizabethville, PA)

Mel, what position do you feel is the deepest in the next draft, and why?
Mel Kiper (1:22 PM)

Defensive line is without question the deepest. There are a lot of quality DLs in this draft.
John (Texas)

With the buccs improving, do you think they are the real deal and will be a team to look out for in the future?
Mel Kiper (1:25 PM)

When you have a QB like Josh Freeman, you have a chance. When you hit the jackpot with a QB, you will be a playoff team. Peyton Manning carries his team. That team would be below .500 of late without Manning. They're nothing without Manning. Rodgers in Green Bay. Rivers in San Diego. You can see what happened in Arizona. They don't have the QB and look what happens to them. They go from playoffs to mediocre football team. It's all about Josh Freeman in Tampa. Mike Williams was a great pick. Blount was a great undrafted free agent pick up. Grimm, the son of Russ Grimm, has been a solid late pick for them. Benn has come on in the second half of the season. They should be a team to reckon with in the coming weeks. We'll find out a lot about them in the next two weeks. Baltimore and Atlanta.
Mel Kiper (1:26 PM)

The good teams they've struggled with this year. They got blown out by Pittsburgh and New Orleans. But they did play Atlanta tough, but they lost the game.
Nick(Cali) [via mobile]

How would you Rate the 2004 QB draft class(Rivers,BigBen,Manning) Knowing what you know now.
Mel Kiper (1:28 PM)

If you had to re-rate them the question is would you put Roethlisberger or Rivers No. 1? Ben has the rings and Rivers has the stat. I said when all three came out, that there wouldn't be a bust among them. Manning has a ring, Ben has a couple and Rivers has none. But Rivers has played great. I would put Rivers and Roethlisberger 1 and 1A and Manning next.
Mel Kiper (1:29 PM)

If I had to make a pick, I would take Roethlisberger. But if Rivers wins a Super Bowl, then I go with him No. 1.
Eric (Dallas)

What's the deal with Dallas, they have all the stars playing but don't look anything like the team of last year. Is it time to start getting younger players? Or was it really just the coach?
Mel Kiper (1:32 PM)

This is a team that lost some tough football games early. They could have easily been 3-0 going into the bye, but they were 1-2. That sets the tone. Then they get Romo hurt in late October. They're 2-3 without Romo and won the last two games with Garrett as the head coach. They know what they have to do, go out and restructure the OL. Get some help with the secondary. It's a very fine line between being a Super Bowl contender and being the worst team in the league. We saw it with Tampa. They were supposed to be one of the worst teams and they've been playing very well. The next three games will tell us a lot about Dallas.
Zach (Fenton, MI)

Do you think Stafford will ever get healthy enough to be the Lions franchise QB or should they start looking for a new QB?
Mel Kiper (1:34 PM)

The medical technology the way it is and how we deal with injuries now will help. Bradford had a serious injury to his shoulder and he's as good as ever. The same thing happened with Drew Brees. In Stafford's case, he never had an injury history, but he's had an injury the last couple of years. They know they have the right guy there. He's an outstanding QB, potentially. He has a rocket arm. He's tough as nails.
John G (Wisconsin)

Mel, Who is the underated / off the radar player now that will be picked high in the draft? Every year there is someone.
Mel Kiper (1:36 PM)

Off the radar type guys: Cecil Shorts, WR, Mt. Union (D-III, that also produced Pierre Garcon); Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova; Kenrick Ellis, DT, Hampton; Davon House, CB, New Mexico St.
Marc (East Brunswick, NJ)

Doesn't seem to be a ton of LB's in NCAA this year- who is the cream of the crop for '11 draft?
Mel Kiper (1:38 PM)

OLB's first, you have Bruce Carter and Von Miller. Carter is a solid player and Miller is the attacking 3-4 OLB. Carter is coming off an excellent game against NC State. Miller was quiet last week, but finished it great. ILB, you have Greg Jones of Michigan State leading the way. You have some decent depth at LB. There is some depth. It will just be picking and choosing. It's not a great year for LBs. You'll see a 3-4 OLB against Boise State this week in Nevada's Dontay Moch.
Will (ATX)

Mel, I know Garrett Gilbert isnt exactly living up to his hype just yet at UT, but there is no question he is very talented. Might we be seeing him on sunday in two-three years?
Mel Kiper (1:40 PM)

Before we worry about Sundays, let's hope he can solidify the starting job at Texas. He's no lock to be the starter moving forward. There will be some concerns that he is the guy there. He has to do that before he becomes an NFL prospect. He's nowhere near a Matt Barkley and where he is now.
Brian (NY)

Will injuries to Kyle Rudolph hurt his stock? He was high on preseason TE lists.
Mel Kiper (1:41 PM)

He's only a junior. He's got another year. He'll go back to Notre Dame in that Brian Kelly offense and put up some numbers. He's still the No. 1 rated junior TE. He's fortuate to be able to go back for the 2011 season. He's always reminded me of Todd Heap.
matt (jacksonville)

whos better jake locker or cam newton for the nfl are either one of these fanchise qbs
Mel Kiper (1:43 PM)

Right now you would say that they're not franchise type QBs. Newton has only started 14 games. You have to check backgrounds, especially with all of these questions right now. You would like a QB to come in with more games started. He's started less than Mark Sanchez. Franchise QBs are guys that started a lot. You're in a pro style offense. You've had some success. Andrew Luck is a franchise QB. He's the only one out there. He's started two years. He's got Jim Harbaugh as his coach.
Peter (Atlanta, GA)

With all of the talk about Luck, Locker and Mallett, how many of the teams drafting early in the NFL draft actually need a QB? It seems to me that many of them either have the QB they want or are already developing a young QB.
Mel Kiper (1:46 PM)

That's perfectly correct. You look at Carolina and they have Clausen. Cleveland has McCoy. Buffalo has Ryan Fitzpatrick who has developed into a good QB. The team that will be picking high and you would have to think would look at a QB is Cincinnati. Palmer is not as good as he once was. If you're Cincinnati and you can get Luck, you take him. That's not something that you would have said at the beginning of the year. Cincinnati could finish 2-14, 3-13 kind of record. Over a month ago, we said in this chat that Cincinnati was in trouble. But I have to give T.O. credit. He's had a great year. He's not the reason they're struggling. Palmer has beent he issue and the defense has struggled. They play the Jets, Saints, Steelers, Browns, Chargers, Ravens. You find me more than one win in that schedule. Right now there's a lot of talk that Luck might end up staying for another year, especially if Harbaugh ends up staying.
Mel Kiper (1:47 PM)

Arizona's another team that would be looking at a QB. It will be interesting to see what they do. Buffalo, it will be interesting to see. Has Fitzpatrick done enough? It will be a lot of fun to see what these teams do that are picking high.
Kevin (Boston)

Mel, when I watch Arian Foster I see a lot of Terrell Davis in his game. Do you see the same thing? Thanks.
Mel Kiper (1:49 PM)

Foster was a pretty good back at Tennessee. His numbers fell off his final year there. He had a really good year as a junior. He caught the ball out of the backfield, he had a high ypc. He looked like a third round pick after his junior year. Another example of a RB that falls through the cracks. It happens every year. Look at Danny Woodhead for New England. Perfect example. Keiland Williams to the Redskins. Happens every year.
Mel Kiper (1:51 PM)

It's not like these guys ever showed anything in college. They all flashed early round ability at some point in their career.
Lane (Kukuihaele, HI)

How many Hawaii players do you see getting drafted in the first 3 rounds?
Mel Kiper (1:52 PM)

The two WR: Greg Salas, Kealoha Pilares. Remember Devone Bess went undrafted and has had a productive career with Miami.
paul (mississippi )

your thoughts on tarvis jackson? could he be the next micheal vick? and do you think the nfl is leaning more towards scrambling qbs
Mel Kiper (1:54 PM)

I think right now, you almost have to put him in. I think he should be the QB for the Vikings. I said this weeks ago. What are you getting out of Favre now? You're not going to the playoffs, the team is a disappointment. This guy was considered the future of the organization when he was drafted in the second round. I go to Jackson and at least let him get some experience and give you a chance to evaluate him. He's got a strong arm. He has the athletic ability. He's showed promise when he was in there.
Jay (New Haven, CT)

The Patriots have two picks in each of the first four rounds next year. What do you think their strategy will be? I imagine there will be a lot of wheeling and dealing going on.
Mel Kiper (1:57 PM)

They have seven in the first four rounds. They traded one away for Branch. They're in a great position. They can assist a defense that's really young. They need a WR. They need a RB. Give Green-Ellis a lot of credit along with Woodhead. They value the draft the most. The two teams that value quantity and quality of picks is the Patriots and Eagles. To make moves and have foresight and stockpile draft picks, that's the reason the Patriots are where they are. The opposite is the Redskins. They never value the draft. The team only had a few picks last year. They only had six picks and six picks in 2009. That's just the players they pick, not ones who actually made the team. That's why they've been a disappointing team.
Tony (Buffalo)

What Pro does AJ Green compare with?
Mel Kiper (2:00 PM)

I haven't really thought about who he reminds me of, but he's a heckuva player. He has the height, long arms. He has excellent hands. He can separate. When the ball is in the air and it looks like he's covered, he's still making the play. You combine all of that together and you've got a great player. There have been some games where he's uncoverable. It's hard to find an answer for Green. He's a man among boys and why he's No. 3 on my Big Board. The only reason he's No. 3 is because Bowers has been a beast at DE for Clemson.
Mel Kiper (2:01 PM)

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. What a weekend we have. We have some great games on Thanksgiving. Lions-Patriots should be interesting. The Cowboys-Saints will be good as well as Jets-Bengals. Friday night will be very interesting with Boise State-Nevada and Auburn-Alabama. Oregon plays Arizona. It's Decision Day on Friday. Saturday is Rivalry Saturday. And Sunday with huge NFL games. The weekend of games begins on Thursday. This is always the best overall time for football, from high school to the pros.
Mel Kiper (2:01 PM)

Have a safe, happy Thanksgiving weekend.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -mel-kiper (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/35687/football-guru-mel-kiper)

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-25-2010, 11:27 PM
Either that guy is Captain Obvious or my Steeler goggles are thicker than I realized. Of COURSE anyone with a 2 eyes and a brain would pick Ben over Rivers and Manning. Geesh!

I think the more interesting conversation is Ben vs Pieton vs Marcia.

All I know is the "Drive" in XLIII will NEVER be be surpassed, and probably never equalled either. And the Playoff run leading to XL will never be surpassed. I'd take Ben over those other guys. But that's just me.

NJ-STEELER
11-26-2010, 02:50 AM
maybe some good news regarding OTs and our draft

Oviedo
11-26-2010, 10:05 AM
maybe some good news regarding OTs and our draft

Better news regarding the number of good DL and the depth in this draft.

Shawn
11-26-2010, 03:09 PM
From a pure who would I want as the QB of this team...behind this line I would go...

Brady>Ben>Manning

Brady gets heat from Steeler fans but gets respect from me. He is the real deal. He plays well with WRs, without WRs, season and post season. I think he is pocket aware enough to avoid the pass rush and make quicker decisions than Ben behind this line.

Manning would crumble behind this line and has a propensity to blow it in the biggest games...especially with pressure in his face.

Unfortunately, when all is said and done...I think most members of the media will salute P Manning as the greatest QB to ever play the game. And, I believe that is unfortunate.

tiproast
11-26-2010, 04:27 PM
Unfortunately, when all is said and done...I think most members of the media will salute P Manning as the greatest QB to ever play the game. And, I believe that is unfortunate.
Perhaps.

Manning, Favre and Marino will be 1,2 & 3 in all of the career-passing records, and many casual fans who look only at numbers will be impressed by them.

More serious fans have a shorter list of all-time greats, and for them the greatest QB is Montana, based on the fact that he raised his game in the post-season.

Brady (in my opinion) is also on the short list of all-time greats and has to be included in the conversation.

Shawn
11-26-2010, 05:08 PM
One of the greatest QBs to ever play the game is Kurt Warner and he rarely gets love. He is the best post season QB...I believe he is even better statistically than Montana.

In my top 5 Montana, Brady and Warner would all have their place.

fezziwig
11-26-2010, 05:16 PM
Yes, it kills me to say it but Brady has it over Ben. He reads the defenses a whole lot better/quicker and I believe he is more accurate.

Who would I rather have ? Ben. Ben seems to be a better fit for the team and I respect him more than Brady for a bunch of reasons.

Despite a players/persons credentials I, have to respect the person to cheer them on.

Shawn
11-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Yes, it kills me to say it but Brady has it over Ben. He reads the defenses a whole lot better/quicker and I believe he is more accurate.

Who would I rather have ? Ben. Ben seems to be a better fit for the team and I respect him more than Brady for a bunch of reasons.

Despite a players/persons credentials I, have to respect the person to cheer them on.

If he was in the BnG you would respect him. He isn't as blue collar which I love about Ben but yes he is clearly the better QB.

birtikidis
11-26-2010, 06:30 PM
Who does kiper have ranked as the best NT prospects? this kid from Auburn is a stud (faley). I haven't really kept up with it this year.

NJ-STEELER
11-26-2010, 06:41 PM
Who does kiper have ranked as the best NT prospects? this kid from Auburn is a stud (faley). I haven't really kept up with it this year.

i think he had him #6 overall in his last mock...as long as he didn't continue with some cheap shots he's been called on

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2010, 08:09 PM
Unfortunately, when all is said and done...I think most members of the media will salute P Manning as the greatest QB to ever play the game. And, I believe that is unfortunate.
Perhaps.

Manning, Favre and Marino will be 1,2 & 3 in all of the career-passing records, and many casual fans who look only at numbers will be impressed by them.

More serious fans have a shorter list of all-time greats, and for them the greatest QB is Montana, based on the fact that he raised his game in the post-season.

Brady (in my opinion) is also on the short list of all-time greats and has to be included in the conversation.

Welcome! I like getting perspective from fans of other teams (the ones who come here to talk football intelligently as opposed to start trouble). We have knowledgeable fans of the Bengals and Chiefs that stop in occassionally, among others.

By the way, after watching the game yesterday...it is painfully obvious how much better your good ol' Pat Patriot uniforms are as opposed to the gaud-awful Flying Elvis uniforms that they wear now (at least they don't have Elvis on the shoulders anymore like back in the Bledsoe era).

tiproast
11-26-2010, 08:17 PM
Unfortunately, when all is said and done...I think most members of the media will salute P Manning as the greatest QB to ever play the game. And, I believe that is unfortunate.
Perhaps.

Manning, Favre and Marino will be 1,2 & 3 in all of the career-passing records, and many casual fans who look only at numbers will be impressed by them.

More serious fans have a shorter list of all-time greats, and for them the greatest QB is Montana, based on the fact that he raised his game in the post-season.

Brady (in my opinion) is also on the short list of all-time greats and has to be included in the conversation.

Welcome! I like getting perspective from fans of other teams (the ones who come here to talk football intelligently as opposed to start trouble). We have knowledgeable fans of the Bengals and Chiefs that stop in occassionally, among others.

By the way, after watching the game yesterday...it is painfully obvious how much better your good ol' Pat Patriot uniforms are as opposed to the gaud-awful Flying Elvis uniforms that they wear now (at least they don't have Elvis on the shoulders anymore like back in the Bledsoe era).
Thanks for the cordial welcome.

I used to be a member of the old board that was hosted by SteelersLive (forget which newspaper it was - it was back in 2002 that I joined it). I see some familiar usernames from that board are on here, and I very seldom got any grief when I was on the old board, so I thought I'd give this one a try.

And you're right about the Pats throwbacks - way better than the current league-designed-for-pushing-jersey-sales uniforms that they have to wear most of the time.

Shawn
11-26-2010, 08:18 PM
Yes, I remember you from the Trib. Welcome.

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Unfortunately, when all is said and done...I think most members of the media will salute P Manning as the greatest QB to ever play the game. And, I believe that is unfortunate.
Perhaps.

Manning, Favre and Marino will be 1,2 & 3 in all of the career-passing records, and many casual fans who look only at numbers will be impressed by them.

More serious fans have a shorter list of all-time greats, and for them the greatest QB is Montana, based on the fact that he raised his game in the post-season.

Brady (in my opinion) is also on the short list of all-time greats and has to be included in the conversation.

Welcome! I like getting perspective from fans of other teams (the ones who come here to talk football intelligently as opposed to start trouble). We have knowledgeable fans of the Bengals and Chiefs that stop in occassionally, among others.

By the way, after watching the game yesterday...it is painfully obvious how much better your good ol' Pat Patriot uniforms are as opposed to the gaud-awful Flying Elvis uniforms that they wear now (at least they don't have Elvis on the shoulders anymore like back in the Bledsoe era).
Thanks for the cordial welcome.

I used to be a member of the old board that was hosted by SteelersLive (forget which newspaper it was - it was back in 2002 that I joined it). I see some familiar usernames from that board are on here, and I very seldom got any grief when I was on the old board, so I thought I'd give this one a try.

And you're right about the Pats throwbacks - way better than the current league-designed-for-pushing-jersey-sales uniforms that they have to wear most of the time.

Yeah, most of us came over from SteelersLive too. We are mostly a cordial but playful bunch. You'll be certain to hear many of us refer to your team as the Asterisks or Cheetahs from time-to-time, but for the most part, we have eliminated most of the folks whose only goal is to stir the pot via personal attacks and the like (either by actually banning them due to violating the Code of Conduct, or by them giving up and leaving on their own when their pot-stirring agenda does not result in the outcome they were looking for...i.e. we ignore their pitiful attention-whoring ways).

I would take this opportunity to make fun of your quarterback's hair, but then again, my quarterback somehow decided to be seen in public with this horrendous 'do earlier this spring:

http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Big-Ben-channeling-a-rogue-Sleepy-Dwarf.png

tiproast
11-26-2010, 08:35 PM
Yeah, most of us came over from SteelersLive too. We are mostly a cordial but playful bunch. You'll be certain to hear many of us refer to your team as the Asterisks or Cheetahs from time-to-time, but for the most part, we have eliminated most of the folks whose only goal is to stir the pot via personal attacks and the like (either by actually banning them due to violating the Code of Conduct, or by them giving up and leaving on their own when their pot-stirring agenda does not result in the outcome they were looking for...i.e. we ignore their pitiful attention-whoring ways).

I would take this opportunity to make fun of your quarterback's hair, but then again, my quarterback somehow decided to be seen in public with this horrendous 'do earlier this spring:

Pats fans make fun of P. Manning because of his big forehead.

Opposing fans don't make fun of second rate players, so I take it as a compliment.

fordfixer
11-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Yeah, most of us came over from SteelersLive too. We are mostly a cordial but playful bunch. You'll be certain to hear many of us refer to your team as the Asterisks or Cheetahs from time-to-time, but for the most part, we have eliminated most of the folks whose only goal is to stir the pot via personal attacks and the like (either by actually banning them due to violating the Code of Conduct, or by them giving up and leaving on their own when their pot-stirring agenda does not result in the outcome they were looking for...i.e. we ignore their pitiful attention-whoring ways).

I would take this opportunity to make fun of your quarterback's hair, but then again, my quarterback somehow decided to be seen in public with this horrendous 'do earlier this spring:

Pats fans make fun of P. Manning because of his big forehead.

Opposing fans don't make fun of second rate players, so I take it as a compliment.


Welcome to the Planet :tt1 :tt1 now play nice and you will remain welcome :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2010, 08:47 PM
Yeah, most of us came over from SteelersLive too. We are mostly a cordial but playful bunch. You'll be certain to hear many of us refer to your team as the Asterisks or Cheetahs from time-to-time, but for the most part, we have eliminated most of the folks whose only goal is to stir the pot via personal attacks and the like (either by actually banning them due to violating the Code of Conduct, or by them giving up and leaving on their own when their pot-stirring agenda does not result in the outcome they were looking for...i.e. we ignore their pitiful attention-whoring ways).

I would take this opportunity to make fun of your quarterback's hair, but then again, my quarterback somehow decided to be seen in public with this horrendous 'do earlier this spring:

Pats fans make fun of P. Manning because of his big forehead.

Opposing fans don't make fun of second rate players, so I take it as a compliment.

We made plenty of fun of Reche Caldwell when he played for you, and he was a second rate player.

http://hotchickshotpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/reche_caldwell_insane_1_1.jpg

tiproast
11-26-2010, 08:53 PM
We made plenty of fun of Reche Caldwell when he played for you, and he was a second rate player.

Touche.

But a good example of Brady making chicken salad out of chicken guano. :mrgreen:

Beating the 14-2 San Diego Chargers (The Most Talented Team In The League (TM) ), in San Diego, with RC as the top WR, was sweet.

stlrz d
11-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Brady would get killed behind our o line in BA's offense.

Shawn
11-26-2010, 11:08 PM
Brady would get killed behind our o line in BA's offense.

I can't agree with that. Brady makes quicker decisions than Ben. Ben scrambles and moves within the pocket better than Brady. I think those would neutralize each other. You might have a point about BA's O but Brady is one of the few "great QBs" in the league I actually respect. I think he would make it work. Ben is a winner and Brady is a winner.

Djfan
11-26-2010, 11:12 PM
Brady would get killed behind our o line in BA's offense.

I can't agree with that. Brady makes quicker decisions than Ben. Ben scrambles and moves within the pocket better than Brady. I think those would neutralize each other. You might have a point about BA's O but Brady is one of the few "great QBs" in the league I actually respect. I think he would make it work. Ben is a winner and Brady is a winner.


Welcome tip! You'll love the planet.

Brady is great on many levels. One thing I really admire is his three second delivery. Keeps the pass rush out of the mix, which is our bread and butter.

Glad you're here, but you need to know that I can't say the Patreee... Paaaaahts... uh their real name. In my home you are only allowed to call the The Cheaters or some variation of it.

Glad you're here and look forward to many conversations. :tt1

stlrz d
11-26-2010, 11:13 PM
I don't care how quick your decision making process is. When 3 guys are coming at you and you're waiting for someone to get open 15 yards downfield (which is what happens in BA's offense) you have to be able to do what Ben does or you're going to get killed. Period.

No disrespect to Brady. Great QB but he would get killed in BA's offense with our o line.

Ben gets a bad rap when it comes to this "decision making" myth. It's pretty clear from watching the games that when the pressure is coming and a short option is open (when there is one) Ben does everything he can to get the ball there.

tiproast
11-26-2010, 11:49 PM
I don't care how quick your decision making process is. When 3 guys are coming at you and you're waiting for someone to get open 15 yards downfield (which is what happens in BA's offense) you have to be able to do what Ben does or you're going to get killed. Period.

No disrespect to Brady. Great QB but he would get killed in BA's offense with our o line.

Ben gets a bad rap when it comes to this "decision making" myth. It's pretty clear from watching the games that when the pressure is coming and a short option is open (when there is one) Ben does everything he can to get the ball there.
Why would any offensive coordinator run an offense that would get his QB killed?

OCs should adapt their offenses to their personnel, and also adapt their gameplans to attack the weaknesses of the defenses. That's the party line in New England, anyway, and it works for us.

I know the Steelers have a different approach, and have been successful, too.

RuthlessBurgher
11-26-2010, 11:52 PM
In my home you are only allowed to call the The Cheaters or some variation of it.

I prefer "Cheetahs" because that is what "Cheaters" would sound like with a Boston accent, and we already have a similar mascot to the Cheetah in the NFL (Jaguars).

tiproast
11-27-2010, 12:03 AM
Welcome tip! You'll love the planet.

Brady is great on many levels. One thing I really admire is his three second delivery. Keeps the pass rush out of the mix, which is our bread and butter.

Glad you're here, but you need to know that I can't say the Patreee... Paaaaahts... uh their real name. In my home you are only allowed to call the The Cheaters or some variation of it.

Glad you're here and look forward to many conversations. :tt1
Thanks - I remember your handle from the old board, I think, as well as Shawn's and a few others.

How long has this board been up? Looks like 2008 or so.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
11-27-2010, 12:50 AM
I've always had a big question mark on Rivers. Yes, he has put up a ton of numbers, and has won a lot of games, but he was put in an even better situation than Ben was and Ben never received his due as we often heard the phrase "game manager" when it came to Ben.

Rivers had the opportunity to study under a great QB for two years before being handed the reins. Ben was forced into action in just his second game as a pro due to injury.

Ben received the benefit of a great D? For most of his time in SD, Rivers also had a top 5 D. Maybe not as good as the Steelers D over that period, but not a weakness.

All Ben did was hand off to Jerome? Rivers was able to hand off to LT...the greatest offensive weapon of the 2004 QB draft era. Who kept Ds honest more? Who played for that QB longer? Not only that but how many screen/swing passes has Rivers been able to soft toss in his career and watch them go for huge plays or all the way? How many of those gifts has Ben received?

Rivers has always had no name receivers? What about the greatest TE in the game? Doesn't he catch the ball? Having Gates and Tomlinson sure has opened up a lot of room for those no name receivers like Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd.

Rivers plays eight games a year in beautiful, warm San Diego. He has played in a division that is one of the two worst in the NFL over that span with no teams that have had dominant defenses since 2004. Ben plays in a significantly tougher division, plays many games each year in poor weather, and has to face the ferocious Baltimore D twice each year.

Despite these huge advantages that Rivers has, here is how they stack up in their respective careers:

Ben: 72-30 = .706 (despite a 7-8 record the year he had his accident and appendectomy prior to week 1)
Rivers: 51-23 = .689 (after making sure he was groomed to take over the position)

Ben: 92.5 QB rating (includes a 75.4 in '06 - a time when he should not have been on the field)
Rivers: 97.3 (many of those rating points thanks to LT scampers)

I've said it often and I'll say it again.....Rivers is the most overrated QB in the game right now. I'm not saying that he isn't a good QB, but he is not top 3 or 4 which is where you usually see him rated.

Djfan
11-27-2010, 01:09 AM
Welcome tip! You'll love the planet.

Brady is great on many levels. One thing I really admire is his three second delivery. Keeps the pass rush out of the mix, which is our bread and butter.

Glad you're here, but you need to know that I can't say the Patreee... Paaaaahts... uh their real name. In my home you are only allowed to call the The Cheaters or some variation of it.

Glad you're here and look forward to many conversations. :tt1
Thanks - I remember your handle from the old board, I think, as well as Shawn's and a few others.

How long has this board been up? Looks like 2008 or so.

I thought I recognized your name, too, but when you've seen one good BBQ meat, you've seen them all, right? jk

I don't know how long we've been going here, but I left stillers.com for it, too. Much better heads here. We have frequent posters from other fan families, so stick around.

As for your comment about "adjusting the offense" above, welcome to Bruce Ariens. I can't stand him, but others like the guy for us. I think he has two plays - run up the middle (we call it RUTM. Some add an "F" in there somewhere), and "Go long." It drives me crazy. One more thing that you and your fellow fans enjoy, that we don't, is called deception plays. I miss them. They have real value, but not in our world.

OK, rant off.

Welcome. Honest.

Shawn
11-27-2010, 02:06 AM
Rivers is a very good QB make no mistake about that. But, in my mind he isn't Ben. If Ben and Rivers switched teams I doubt Rivers would have a QB rating higher than 85.

Flasteel
11-27-2010, 03:35 AM
From a pure who would I want as the QB of this team...behind this line I would go...

Brady>Ben>Manning

Brady gets heat from Steeler fans but gets respect from me.

I have mad respect for Brady's game as well, but if you're gonna put him behind this line, then you're also necessarily sticking him with BA. Drop Brady back 5-7 drops all game, give him poor play-calls, and subject him to Arians overall philosophy and Tom Brady would not come close to beating Ben out for the top of my list.

For everything he brings to the table, Brady isn't in Ben's league when it comes to dealing with pressure and extending plays. I take Roethlisberger all day long given our line and style of play.

fezziwig
11-27-2010, 09:02 AM
Yes, it kills me to say it but Brady has it over Ben. He reads the defenses a whole lot better/quicker and I believe he is more accurate.

Who would I rather have ? Ben. Ben seems to be a better fit for the team and I respect him more than Brady for a bunch of reasons.

Despite a players/persons credentials I, have to respect the person to cheer them on.

If he was in the BnG you would respect him. He isn't as blue collar which I love about Ben but yes he is clearly the better QB.


Your right, I would respect him if he was in Black n Gold. Had he started his career in B&G he wouldn't have made his name from cheating. He's good and so is Bellicheat at their jobs but, they also used cheating as a tool and I have no respect for them. Many of you may find this hard to believe that I place values over winning but, I do.
I know Ben has had his name in the mud but, I actually believe the lady from Nevada came up with a good story after a one night stand.

The other girl, he was not found guilty and he did say he did not try to force himself upon him so, I will give him the benifit of doubt.

Not that any of this makes it right but, do you really think Ben invented trying to get in a drunk girls pants if, that really happened at all.

Not trying to make this a thread about Bens past, just giving my answers or perspective of why I have no respect for Brady, Bellicheat and the Patriots. They accomplished nothing to me except for screwing all the NFL, the fans, cities, players coaches and so on.

stlrz d
11-27-2010, 02:17 PM
From a pure who would I want as the QB of this team...behind this line I would go...

Brady>Ben>Manning

Brady gets heat from Steeler fans but gets respect from me.

I have mad respect for Brady's game as well, but if you're gonna put him behind this line, then you're also necessarily sticking him with BA. Drop Brady back 5-7 drops all game, give him poor play-calls, and subject him to Arians overall philosophy and Tom Brady would not come close to beating Ben out for the top of my list.

For everything he brings to the table, Brady isn't in Ben's league when it comes to dealing with pressure and extending plays. I take Roethlisberger all day long given our line and style of play.

That's what I'm sayin....

grotonsteel
11-27-2010, 03:17 PM
From a pure who would I want as the QB of this team...behind this line I would go...

Brady>Ben>Manning

Brady gets heat from Steeler fans but gets respect from me.

I have mad respect for Brady's game as well, but if you're gonna put him behind this line, then you're also necessarily sticking him with BA. Drop Brady back 5-7 drops all game, give him poor play-calls, and subject him to Arians overall philosophy and Tom Brady would not come close to beating Ben out for the top of my list.

For everything he brings to the table, Brady isn't in Ben's league when it comes to dealing with pressure and extending plays. I take Roethlisberger all day long given our line and style of play.

Well Said...