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View Full Version : What the “3”-“4” defense really means for the Steelers…



Dee Dub
11-15-2010, 01:08 PM
..It means rush 3 or 4. Some of you are just starting to catch on (amazing what losing can do), but I have been on this LeBeau defense for awhile now. He has totally gone away from the Zone blitz. He is running a deep 2 cover shell with man underneath most of the time now. He is only rushing 3 or 4 at the QB the majority of the game. He has totally taken Troy Polamalu out of this defense and he has minimized his strength. Guess what he did? He fell in love with a new toy. He has replaced what he use to do with Troy with Lawrence Timmons. Problem is it has neutralized a great defensive player in the process. A person that teams use to have to account for. When Troy is lined up 30 yards off the line of scrimmage there is only so many thing he can do…and opposing QB's know this. Lawrence Timmons isn’t going to be able come up to the line of scrimmage and then back off out of it in time to get back deep. Troy Polamalu is the only player in the NFL who can do this.

Yes I know LeBeau is a legend…and he is one of the greatest defensive coordinator I have ever seen…however…we forgot that he also has had some of the best defensive players in the game. That alone will get a defense to look good and be dominate.

I personally hope that in the not so far future when LeBeau hangs’em up that the Steelers bring back Dom Capers. He understood that when you have a 3-4 defense the strength of it is it’s LB’s and them getting after the QB. And that a zone blitz has a zone coverage behind an actual blitz.

Crash
11-15-2010, 01:17 PM
I want Rob Ryan (If available) or Wade as the next DC.

Oviedo
11-15-2010, 01:20 PM
If you recall, there was probably a deal made last off season when Keith Butler turned down the Miami DC job to come back. I'm betting he was promised the Steelers job and that is what we will get. Hopefully LeBeau has not contaminated him with his non-aggressive scheme but I fear more of the same.

Crash
11-15-2010, 01:24 PM
If that's the case what's the point?

The defensive side of the ball needs a make over. I feel the coaches are too close to the players and that prevents them from making "tough decisons".

ikestops85
11-15-2010, 01:37 PM
If you recall, there was probably a deal made last off season when Keith Butler turned down the Miami DC job to come back. I'm betting he was promised the Steelers job and that is what we will get. Hopefully LeBeau has not contaminated him with his non-aggressive scheme but I fear more of the same.

I think you are right about Butler. He turned down interviewing for the DC job in Arizona 3 years ago and the Miami DC job. Hopefully he will have his own slant on things when he gets control.

grotonsteel
11-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Seriously tired of watching 3-4 guys rushing every down

WTH are blitz packages these players practice in TC????

Mister Pittsburgh
11-15-2010, 01:47 PM
3-4 D was made to attack and be physical. We sit back and play in coverage. The only time CB's can be physical is the first 5 yards. Ours start the play 12 yards off the LOS. The beating the Pats laid on us is the same exact beating, the same exact way, as they have beat us the past 5 or 6 times we have played them.

It appears that we learn nothing at all.

papillon
11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
..It means rush 3 or 4. Some of you are just starting to catch on (amazing what losing can do), but I have been on this LeBeau defense for awhile now. He has totally gone away from the Zone blitz. He is running a deep 2 cover shell with man underneath most of the time now. He is only rushing 3 or 4 at the QB the majority of the game. He has totally taken Troy Polamalu out of this defense and he has minimized his strength. Guess what he did? He fell in love with a new toy. He has replaced what he use to do with Troy with Lawrence Timmons. Problem is it has neutralized a great defensive player in the process. A person that teams use to have to account for. When Troy is lined up 30 yards off the line of scrimmage there is only so many thing he can do…and opposing QB's know this. Lawrence Timmons isn’t going to be able come up to the line of scrimmage and then back off out of it in time to get back deep. Troy Polamalu is the only player in the NFL who can do this.

Yes I know LeBeau is a legend…and he is one of the greatest defensive coordinator I have ever seen…however…we forgot that he also has had some of the best defensive players in the game. That alone will get a defense to look good and be dominate.

I personally hope that in the not so far future when LeBeau hangs’em up that the Steelers bring back Dom Capers. He understood that when you have a 3-4 defense the strength of it is it’s LB’s and them getting after the QB. And that a zone blitz has a zone coverage behind an actual blitz.

Even if that is the case, Troy has not been covering the deep third of the field at all in coverage. He guessed wrong multiple times last night and on the one deep post that Brady hit Tate with Troy was nowhere to be found. How does a safety playing cover 2 not be in the picture when a ball is thrown there?

For whatever reason and I have no idea what it may be, maybe Lebeau changed things, maybe Troy is gambling and guessing wrong, maybe he's trying to cover up Gay and Mcfadden's weaknesses, I don't know, but he has been a non-factor in the last three games (2 for sure).

Pappy

Dee Dub
11-15-2010, 02:41 PM
Even if that is the case, Troy has not been covering the deep third of the field at all in coverage.

They havent been playing a cover 3. It's a 2 deep zone...which means Troy as a deep half. Not a third.

Oviedo
11-15-2010, 02:41 PM
If you recall, there was probably a deal made last off season when Keith Butler turned down the Miami DC job to come back. I'm betting he was promised the Steelers job and that is what we will get. Hopefully LeBeau has not contaminated him with his non-aggressive scheme but I fear more of the same.

I think you are right about Butler. He turned down interviewing for the DC job in Arizona 3 years ago and the Miami DC job. Hopefully he will have his own slant on things when he gets control.

I had hoped that Tomlin would have challenged LeBeau to come up with something new and innovative, e.g. a 4-3 defense that incorprates elements of his blitz schemes. I think that could have intellectually stimulated LeBeau to think outside the box but alas he seems to have fallen into a comfort zone he doesn't want to leave.

Hopefully Butler is up for a challenge and takes up putting together a system that is his and actually works against both good and bad teams not just the latter.

Dee Dub
11-16-2010, 12:01 AM
Troy Polamalu....2 tackles and no PD's. LeBeau is making him a non-factor.

SteelCzar76
11-16-2010, 02:06 AM
If that's the case what's the point?

The defensive side of the ball needs a make over. I feel the coaches are too close to the players and that prevents them from making "tough decisons".


Would that be anything like making the tough decision to actually communicate to your QB the importance of consistency, accuracy, and proper execution of plays via timing ?

Naaaah,...probably not,..why would someone have to do that ? As we all know,... Arians, Whiz, Coach Cowher, the elderly woman whom ran into the busa, short WR's, those nefarious rape crying wenches, Roger Goodell, the O- line every single season, Terry Bradshaw and now the Defense are collectively the grassy knoll gunman responsible for your boy Roethlisbereger not being the second coming of Dan Marino :lol:

Crash
11-16-2010, 02:34 AM
Would that be anything like making the tough decision to actually communicate to your QB the importance of consistency, accuracy, and proper execution of plays via timing ?

We run plenty of timing plays. Have for 7 years.

This whole notion that Ben is nothing but a sandlot QB is a farce by media who don't pay attention to him.

Want a good example of how ignorant the media is when it comes to Ben?

This, in today's online PG, courtesy of Ed Bouchette, "The Dean" of Pittsburgh Steelers media and who owns a HOF vote.

And I quote:

"Ben Roethlisberger's 387 yards passing rank second in his career. He has lost all three of his top passing games"

Oh really?

Packers 2009: Win 503 yards.

Broncos 2006: Lost 433 yards.

Browns 2009: Win 417 yards.

Top three games, 2-1 record.

2-1 is a far cry from 0-3, no?

But some national schmuck will read that and take it as gospel and print it, because Ed's a lazy two bit hack, and he has been for 10 years.

I don't want Ben to be Dan Marino. Dan Marino was a whiny, loudmouth, egotistical jackass who only cared about Dan Marino's stats.

I'll take Ben, who actually wins big games. Just like Terry Bradshaw did. Because IMO THAT is who Ben plays like.

Whither Bradshaw (Or the dimwitted Pittsburgh media) wants to admit it or not. :)

LouSteel
11-16-2010, 08:06 PM
This whole notion that Ben is nothing but a sandlot QB is a farce by media who don't pay attention to him.

The problem is that our inconsistent WRs and terrible playcalling makes Ben need to be a sandlot QB.

Don't get me wrong. Sandlot is exciting.

But if we help Ben out more, we will end up with a more consistent offense -- and Ben's ability to improv will only help us even more. How do you defend against a guy that is equally likely to make the quick throw and shed tacklers for the huge completion.

Every once in a while I wish our WRs would break off their routes to bail out Ben. Or that our OC would stop calling 27 step drops. Is that too much to ask? :wink:

Naah -- this team likes to Impose Our Will rather than gameplan around our best player. :roll:

NorthCoast
11-16-2010, 11:02 PM
Even the game commentators said they were surprised how much Harrison was dropping into coverage. How did Ryan and the Browns beat them? they sent the house on nearly every play. Brady had NO time to throw. They use stunts up the middle, forcing Brady to move in the pocket, his biggest weakness. How many times did Timmons attempt to blitz, it could not have been many cause I didn't see him in the backfield all night. I think our weak CBs are causing us to change our defense and now teams are finding out how easy they can be beaten with the pass.

SteelCrazy
11-17-2010, 06:38 AM
That's Tomlin's hand print all over the Defense. LeBeau is the one guy he should have left alone!!!!!!!!!!

Oviedo
11-17-2010, 09:05 AM
That's Tomlin's hand print all over the Defense. LeBeau is the one guy he should have left alone!!!!!!!!!!

Don't make another excuse for LeBeau. This defense is his creation from front to back. Don't try to implicate anyone else in the recent failures. Probably no coordinator in Steelers history has the freedom and autonomy that LeBeau does.

The problem is that LeBeau has not evolved his scheme as the rest of the league has become more familiar with the 3-4 defenses.

SteelCrazy
11-17-2010, 11:16 AM
That's Tomlin's hand print all over the Defense. LeBeau is the one guy he should have left alone!!!!!!!!!!

Don't make another excuse for LeBeau. This defense is his creation from front to back. Don't try to implicate anyone else in the recent failures. Probably no coordinator in Steelers history has the freedom and autonomy that LeBeau does.

The problem is that LeBeau has not evolved his scheme as the rest of the league has become more familiar with the 3-4 defenses.

When did LeBeau ever run a 2 deep Defense before Tomlin?

ANSWER: Never!

papillon
11-17-2010, 11:31 AM
[quote="Dee Dub":qfg49f7d]

Even if that is the case, Troy has not been covering the deep third of the field at all in coverage.

They havent been playing a cover 3. It's a 2 deep zone...which means Troy as a deep half. Not a third.[/quote:qfg49f7d]

Sorry Dee Dub, I divided the field the wrong way (our kids play soccer and the field is divided into thirds). Yes, he isn't covering the deep half very well either or is not being asked to cover it, either way, the Pats managed to get the WR in single coverage in the deep half of the field a few times and our corners (except Ike) aren't good enough in man coverage to handle this task.

Way too many mistakes by the secondary in this game to survive against Brady. Or, maybe, Brady being the quarterback that he is caused the confusion and indecision in the secondary.

Pappy

Oviedo
11-17-2010, 11:34 AM
That's Tomlin's hand print all over the Defense. LeBeau is the one guy he should have left alone!!!!!!!!!!

Don't make another excuse for LeBeau. This defense is his creation from front to back. Don't try to implicate anyone else in the recent failures. Probably no coordinator in Steelers history has the freedom and autonomy that LeBeau does.

The problem is that LeBeau has not evolved his scheme as the rest of the league has become more familiar with the 3-4 defenses.

When did LeBeau ever run a 2 deep Defense before Tomlin?

ANSWER: Never!

LeBeau's defense has always included elements of Cover 2 schemes. The difference is he has to keep Troy off the LOS and limit his blitzing to keep him healthy. That is not a Tomlin issue.

SteelCrazy
11-17-2010, 11:40 AM
That's Tomlin's hand print all over the Defense. LeBeau is the one guy he should have left alone!!!!!!!!!!

Don't make another excuse for LeBeau. This defense is his creation from front to back. Don't try to implicate anyone else in the recent failures. Probably no coordinator in Steelers history has the freedom and autonomy that LeBeau does.

The problem is that LeBeau has not evolved his scheme as the rest of the league has become more familiar with the 3-4 defenses.

When did LeBeau ever run a 2 deep Defense before Tomlin?

ANSWER: Never!

LeBeau's defense has always included elements of Cover 2 schemes. The difference is he has to keep Troy off the LOS and limit his blitzing to keep him healthy. That is not a Tomlin issue.


The D we have been playing is a 1st for us, maybe Tomlin isnt interfering but this year is different.