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Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 01:58 PM
...the Pittsburgh Steelers are never going to completely give the offense over to Ben Roethlisberger. No matter what he does.

Last night was a prime example. With the score 27-21 in the fourth quarter, 9:05 left on the game clock, and the opponent having just scored two unanswered TDís, this team goes out and runs the ball 7 straight times. All just to set up a failed field goal attempt from a guy who is seriously struggling to make field goals this year. The mentality of this team is to just play enough to win. Not to knock a team out or to put a team away.

I really donít think this is an Arians thing, or Tomlin thing. I think this is just an organizational mentality.

The Steelers have one of the leagueís best QBís who has proven himself as a winner but the organization will not given him much more control than what he has now and will never give him complete control of the offense. And I think that is a shame. And it is not allowing this offense to reach itís complete potential.

Ben Roethlisberger is the best player on the Steelers. And the games should be more in his hands.

Crash
11-09-2010, 02:02 PM
The Steelers have one of the leagueís best QBís who has proven himself as a winner but the organization will not given him much more control than what he has now and will never give him complete control of the offense. And I think that is a shame. And it is not allowing this offense to reach itís complete potential.

From 2007-2009 they did. BUT...since we can't dare bash the defense for their downfall in 2009 it had to be the offense's fault.

So simple minded fans call for the trusted ground game and Art II (A lawyer, not a "football man") buys into it.

So this is what we get. A Steelers QB has yet to throw 30 times in a game.

But yet, the same 4th quarter problems on defense remain.

I guess that's the offense's fault too?

Crash
11-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Mark Madden.....

What price balance?
Tuesday 11-09-2010 12:37pm ET

The Steelers got lucky. Once again, they faded in the fourth quarter. If that game is five minutes longer, Cincinnati wins. Are the Steelers aging? Is the window closing?

Whatever the problem is, it needs solved. The surest solution would be putting games away earlier. Make the fourth quarter inconsequential. (Though you'd think a 27-7 lead would make for a pretty insignificant final 15 minutes.)

The way to do that is: Establish the Ben. Not the run. The Ben.

The Steelers passed, or attempted to, 29 times. They ran 32 times. That's a 52-48 split in favor of the run. That's balance. But what price balance?

If the Steelers turn Ben loose, perhaps that game is easier. Maybe, instead of running the ball and running clock, the Steelers should try to run up the score. Even the Steel Curtain of the '70s ultimately declined. Terry Bradshaw and the passing game were responsible for winning Super Bowls in 1979 and 1980.

Being enamored with the concept of balance (and the idea of recapturing Grandaddy's running game) nearly killed the Steelers last night.

Less than five minutes remained. The Steelers faced third-and-6 at Cincinnati's 29. Rashard Mendenhall had carried six straight times. Roethlisberger lined up in the shotgun, but handed off to Mendenhall. Mendenhall got a yard, Jeff Reed missed a 46-yard field goal. The Steelers led 27-21. The Bengals had the ball and life.

Maybe Roethlisbeger doesn't complete a pass there. But he usually does. I want the game in my franchise quarterback's hands. Forget the field goal. I want a first down. I want the victory formation. I want to utilize my primary weapon.

As long as the Steelers cling to the antiquated notion that power football = success, they're going to tempt fate like they did yesterday.

Sooner or later, fate wins. Perhaps in the playoffs

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 02:26 PM
Ben threw a pick when Miller was wide open. Ben has a tendency to throw awful INT's against Cincy anytime we have a 10+ point lead.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-09-2010, 02:27 PM
There's no doubt that the defense has problems, especially late in games.

But it was BEN who threw that weak lollipop pass for a pick in the fourth. You can't blame the defense for that. Ben didn't bring his "A" game, and a share of the blame for the near collapse has to go to him.

Of course, Ben's hand-picked OC, sucked as usual...that didn't help, either.

Crash
11-09-2010, 02:28 PM
And the defense started it when they gave up a score (again) right after a Steelers TD.

Too many "give back" scores by the defense. It's been a problem for three years.

Arians is doing what he's been told to do: Commit to the running game.

Maybe people will realize it's better to pass and EXPECT to win, rather than play "Stiller Football" and HOPE to win.

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 02:33 PM
And the defense started it when they gave up a score (again) right after a Steelers TD.

Too many "give back" scores by the defense. It's been a problem for three years.

I agree on the give backs... but Reed set Cincy up nicely.

as far as Ben throwing the ball to seal the win? That isn't a great idea IMO... BEn is great when the game is on the line but when we are up by double digits Ben has a tendency to ease up and throw terrible INT's like we just witnessed.

We also need to keep the clock going and if Hines sucks as much as you say he does and ARE and Spaeth are on the short list... that leaves us with 2 options for completions and probably means we don't kill the clock.

Oviedo
11-09-2010, 02:39 PM
It is truly frightening when Madden actually writes something that makes sense.

I agree, put the game in Ben's hands. Only issue is that Hines and ARE are pretty mediocre nowadays as receivers. Neither scares anyone on the defense. Need to get the young guys on the field plus use Mendy and Heath more and more.

Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Ben threw a pick when Miller was wide open. Ben has a tendency to throw awful INT's against Cincy anytime we have a 10+ point lead.

Are you kidding me? Even the greatest QBís of all-time throw picks.

So because Ben threw one pick last night that is your basis or argument why he shouldnít have the game in his hands when the balance is on the line? Not what he did with just over 2 minutes to play in a super bowl??

1595 completions to 83 career INTís??? I think I myself like those odds. :roll:

Crash
11-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Ben threw 6 passes the entire second half people.

Ben didn't give up a TD in less than 2 minutes after we went up 27-7. The defense did.

Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 02:47 PM
...Arians is doing what he's been told to do: Commit to the running game.

I agree with this. If it were up to Arians he'd throw the ball a lot more. He knows what he has in number 7.

Sugar
11-09-2010, 02:49 PM
[quote="BradshawsHairdresser"]There's no doubt that the defense has problems, especially late in games.

But it was BEN who threw that weak lollipop pass for a pick in the fourth. You can't blame the defense for that. Ben didn't bring his "A" game, and a share of the blame for the near collapse has to go to him. quote]

Yeah, Ben made a bad throw but he usually doesn't do that often. He's more reliable than not.

Steelers>NFL
11-09-2010, 03:05 PM
Ben threw 6 passes the entire second half people.

Ben didn't give up a TD in less than 2 minutes after we went up 27-7. The defense did.

And one of the six was the lame duck throw (not a pass) that was intercepted. Correct?

Crash
11-09-2010, 03:08 PM
And one of the six was the lame duck throw (not a pass) that was intercepted. Correct?

Yep.

But that doesn't excuse the defense rolling over after we went up 27-7.

We play prevent and we don't even play it right. They give up points AND, they don't take time off the clock doing it.

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 03:11 PM
Ben threw a pick when Miller was wide open. Ben has a tendency to throw awful INT's against Cincy anytime we have a 10+ point lead.

Are you kidding me? Even the greatest QBís of all-time throw picks.

So because Ben threw one pick last night that is your basis or argument why he shouldnít have the game in his hands when the balance is on the line? Not what he did with just over 2 minutes to play in a super bowl??

1595 completions to 83 career INTís??? I think I myself like those odds. :roll:

I said the exact opposite. I said when we are up by 10+ points Ben has a tendency to throw sloppy INT's.

I think you jumped the gun a little.

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 03:19 PM
Ben threw 6 passes the entire second half people.

Ben didn't give up a TD in less than 2 minutes after we went up 27-7. The defense did.

we were up 27 to 7 in the fourth quarter... it makes no sense to even think about passing more.

if we run on 3rd down instead of attempting a pass that was intercepted we punt the ball and the game is over... unless the refs give them a 60 yard Pass INT flag.

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Last year people complained about passing late and not burning clock... this year we run and burn clock, pass and get it intercepted and people complain about running too much.

:wft

it doesn't matter. whatever we do will probably result in a close game because it keeps the ratings up.

NJ-STEELER
11-09-2010, 03:24 PM
what was wrong with they way mendy was running there.

a simple block by bronco gets another 1st down and possibly a TD.

i have no problem giving the ball to ben, but use whats working in whatever situation. if we're gonna pass 60-40 we need better play from the OL and the receivers on this team. 2 of our 3 WRs in that set have trouble getting open and the other is still learning the routes

maybe drafting a 1st rd receiver and keep him after his rookie contract could help

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 03:30 PM
what was wrong with they way mendy was running there.

a simple block by bronco gets another 1st down and possibly a TD.

i have no problem giving the ball to ben, but use whats working in whatever situation. if we're gonna pass 60-40 we need better play from the OL and the receivers on this team. 2 of our 3 WRs in that set have trouble getting open and the other is still learning the routes

maybe drafting a 1st rd receiver and keep him after his rookie contract could help

that draw was there... Legursky has to make that block.

Crash
11-09-2010, 03:37 PM
Um, the defense gave up a TD BEFORE Ben threw his pick. The pick came AFTER the defense gave up a score to cut the lead to 27-14. Then they scored again after the pick.

People are so obsessed with running the ball that the PGs Gerry Dulac whined that we threw the ball three times with 5 minutes to go.........IN THE THIRD QUARTER!

I'm sorry, but if you want to shut Ben down when we have a first down from their 45 with 20 minutes left in the game? It's time to trade him and send him on his way.

If you want to play 1975 football, trade Ben, load up the money you don't have to pay Ben anymore on RBs, and sign a $2 mil a year scrub to hand off all day.

Yoi!

Oviedo
11-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Um, the defense gave up a TD BEFORE Ben threw his pick. The pick came AFTER the defense gave up a score to cut the lead to 27-14. Then they scored again after the pick.

People are so obsessed with running the ball that the PGs Gerry Dulac whined that we threw the ball three times with 5 minutes to go.........IN THE THIRD QUARTER!

I'm sorry, but if you want to shut Ben down when we have a first down from their 45 with 20 minutes left in the game? It's time to trade him and send him on his way.

If you want to play 1975 football, trade Ben, load up the money you don't have to pay Ben anymore on RBs, and sign a $2 mil a year scrub to hand off all day.

Yoi!

Bravo :Clap Bravo :Clap


Let Ben play and quit trying to recreate the Bettis years. You can't do that without Bettis.

Crash
11-09-2010, 03:45 PM
We won squat with Bettis as a starter. When he was a goal line back and glorified mop up man only then did he get his SB ring.

Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 03:54 PM
Last year people complained about passing late and not burning clock... this year we run and burn clock, pass and get it intercepted and people complain about running too much.

:wft

it doesn't matter. whatever we do will probably result in a close game because it keeps the ratings up.

27-21 with 9 minutes left in the game and you run 7 straight times?? Think about it.

NJ-STEELER
11-09-2010, 04:00 PM
Last year people complained about passing late and not burning clock... this year we run and burn clock, pass and get it intercepted and people complain about running too much.

:wft

it doesn't matter. whatever we do will probably result in a close game because it keeps the ratings up.

27-21 with 9 minutes left in the game and you run 7 straight times?? Think about it.


they were gashing them. i believe they said ben audibeled to the run twice in that drive

why would you change that.

bronco makes a easy block and we have another 1st down (possible TD) and more time is taken off the clock

Crash
11-09-2010, 04:01 PM
The defense was gassed, the 4th quarter drive didn't bother me as much as the turtle offense did to start the 3rd quarter did.

They were down 27-7, stop on their necks and kill them.

NJ-STEELER
11-09-2010, 04:15 PM
The defense was gassed, the 4th quarter drive didn't bother me as much as the turtle offense did to start the 3rd quarter did.

They were down 27-7, stop on their necks and kill them.

this

i agree with. playaction up by 20 to extend drives.


used to be when we were up by 20 in the 4th qr the defense were the ones to put the game away, now they make it interesting

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 04:17 PM
Last year people complained about passing late and not burning clock... this year we run and burn clock, pass and get it intercepted and people complain about running too much.

:wft

it doesn't matter. whatever we do will probably result in a close game because it keeps the ratings up.

27-21 with 9 minutes left in the game and you run 7 straight times?? Think about it.

7 times for 45 yards and it chewed up about 5 minutes of clock. You don't burn clock by passing the ball to Hines and ARE or risking a sack with a patchwork OL who ha problems against the blitz.

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 04:19 PM
The defense was gassed, the 4th quarter drive didn't bother me as much as the turtle offense did to start the 3rd quarter did.

They were down 27-7, stop on their necks and kill them.

20 to 7 and ARE throws a TD pass on a gadget play.. that looked like the kill shot.

I guess you aren't willing to put any blame on Jeff Reed though...

Crash
11-09-2010, 04:24 PM
The defense was gassed, the 4th quarter drive didn't bother me as much as the turtle offense did to start the 3rd quarter did.

They were down 27-7, stop on their necks and kill them.

20 to 7 and ARE throws a TD pass on a gadget play.. that looked like the kill shot.

I guess you aren't willing to put any blame on Jeff Reed though...

Um, El's play opened the 4th quarter.

We turtled to start the 3rd.

Pay attention.

feltdizz
11-09-2010, 04:30 PM
The defense was gassed, the 4th quarter drive didn't bother me as much as the turtle offense did to start the 3rd quarter did.

They were down 27-7, stop on their necks and kill them.

20 to 7 and ARE throws a TD pass on a gadget play.. that looked like the kill shot.

I guess you aren't willing to put any blame on Jeff Reed though...

Um, El's play opened the 4th quarter.

We turtled to start the 3rd.

Pay attention.

um... once again YOU need to pay attention McFly.

You just said it was 27-7. STOMP ON THEIR NECKS AND KILL THEM.

Don't give out the 4th quarter score if you are talking about the 3rd quarter.

AngryAsian
11-09-2010, 04:42 PM
An above average football acumen and laptop is a dangerous combo. :lol:

Tomlinator
11-09-2010, 04:44 PM
The whining and gnashing of teeth arguing run vs pass is never going to end, is it? Everyone is happy as long as they have something to bitch and moan about.

I thought that last drive pounding the rock was the right thing to do. It was working, it ate clock, and if Legursky gets the @#$% block Mendy probably has six.

I thought the D was ok this game. Their biggest sin was that real quick TD they allowed after Wallace's score. Ward's fumble gave them a short field, and the last Bengal TD drive was helped by Flozell (persoanl foul), Hampton (personal foul), and Ike (pass interference). Hampton's was debatable and I never did see what Ike did.

In the end we went into a divsion rivals house and came away with the win. I'd have prefered a 41-7 blowout for once and not another Holy Crap! game, but the other guys are paid too.

What I think we all need to start to accept is that Jeff Reed will lose us a playoff game.

papillon
11-09-2010, 04:50 PM
And the defense started it when they gave up a score (again) right after a Steelers TD.

Too many "give back" scores by the defense. It's been a problem for three years.

Arians is doing what he's been told to do: Commit to the running game.

Maybe people will realize it's better to pass and EXPECT to win, rather than play "Stiller Football" and HOPE to win.

Ben completing passes last night was not a guaranteed event. There were times he struggled to find receivers (maybe he missed them or maybe they weren't open it doesn't matter). 3rd and six after 6 consecutive running plays and Legursky completely misses the cornerback that would have sprung Mendenhall for at least 6 yards and the Bengals have to start using timeouts on defense.

The same thing could have happened on a pass play, if Legursky misses a block on a pass play and Ben is sacked they don't even get to try the FG, they punt (which in the end would have been better, but you don't know that at the time, you want to try and put the game away with the FG.)

Pappy

Crash
11-09-2010, 05:17 PM
He was 14 of 21 for 144 and a TD after 30 minutes.

Then we threw the ball only 6 times in a half in quarters 3 and 4.

Crash
11-09-2010, 05:18 PM
Whoops....my bad. But you get the point.

Run the ball! Yoi!

Shawn
11-09-2010, 05:19 PM
Part of our issues are our WR core. I stand by the fact that our WRs are suspect at best. Ward has been showing his age all season. He is no longer money reliable and his route running looks like he is running through mud. Wallace while speedy is really raw. His route running has to get better. ARE lol. Sanders is going to be good I believe but that is a few years off. Ben can be as good as he wants to be but if WRs can't get open Ben can't do much. I liked the running calls at the end of the game personally.

Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 06:13 PM
An above average football acumen and laptop is a dangerous combo. :lol:


So are you saying that you donít agree that when the Steelers get a lead late even when the outcome is still in question they would prefer to grind it out, play safe, chew up clock, and not allow their franchise QB to have the game in his hands??

cruzer8
11-09-2010, 06:19 PM
How many of you watched the Packers trounce the Cowboys? Did the Packers ever stop trying to score? No. Every time they had the ball they were trying to score because not many leads are safe until the clock strikes 00:00. The rules favor offense.

The Steelers need to start playing that way as well.

Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 06:24 PM
Part of our issues are our WR core. I stand by the fact that our WRs are suspect at best. Ward has been showing his age all season. He is no longer money reliable and his route running looks like he is running through mud. Wallace while speedy is really raw. His route running has to get better. ARE lol. Sanders is going to be good I believe but that is a few years off. Ben can be as good as he wants to be but if WRs can't get open Ben can't do much. I liked the running calls at the end of the game personally.

Totally disagree. Mike Wallace is knocking stardom's door down. He has more than arrived. He is here Shawn. I know you want another receiver but accept it. This kid is the real deal. I too would like another bonafide receiver but this team has more than enough pass catchers. Wallace, Heath Miller, Hines Ward, and two guys out of the backfield, Moore and an improving Mendenhall, and the Steelers are far from lacking.

Let it go dude. We didnt get Moss nor did we want or need him.

Crash
11-09-2010, 06:54 PM
Wallace is the only guy they have thats reliable at this point.

Dee Dub
11-09-2010, 06:58 PM
Wallace is the only guy they have thats reliable at this point.

Disagree. Heath Miller, Hines Ward, Moore and Mendenhall out of the back field all have proven they are reliable.

If you are going to base this on a couple of fumbles in the past two games (Miller and Hines), then you are obviously not seeing the big picture....like years of reliability. Hello? :wink:

AngryAsian
11-09-2010, 08:58 PM
An above average football acumen and laptop is a dangerous combo. :lol:


So are you saying that you donít agree that when the Steelers get a lead late even when the outcome is still in question they would prefer to grind it out, play safe, chew up clock, and not allow their franchise QB to have the game in his hands??

No Dub, just love the grandiose posts of some and the see/saw laments of others. Some need to post with a little less emotion and more logic, while others need to read with more clarity and retort with a lot less bias. This board is a collective of various opinions, some based on facts others based on sheer conjecture. Regardless, this is the place to state those opinions and when opinions differ... respectful and highly entertaining debates are always welcomed. Let's keep this all in perspective folks.

We can continue to post the self-righteous soap box 'I told you so / I predicted blah blah blah' posts... and the ever so popular 'let me lump all you guys together because you have an opposing viewpoint' posts... then there's the secret agenda 'regardless of the subject matter being discussed, I'll just come and spew my rant anyway' posts and finally the 'let me poke the bear, antagonizing the putz on the other end of this keyboard' posts... as long as we are reminded to keep it civil and above all read things with extremely thick skins.

As to your questions for me... I love any plan of action that seals the win for the good guys in Black and Gold. We can have all our armchair viewpoints on how last night's 3rd and 4th quarter management should of gone, but we aren't NFL coaches or coordinators, regardless of how much time anybody has played division 1 college ball or played Madden. By some people's assertion, if Ben isn't chucking the ball 50 times a night we have no chance of winning. Others believe we need to be "traditional" in our smashmouth ground game to be successful and retain our old school offensive identity. What's the answer? Who knows.. but balance is us getting the win with whatever means we have at our disposal, whether through the run or the pass.

The skinny IMHO (devoid of agenda or prejudice).... our receivers though competent do not run crisp routes either by design or by lack of skillset. Our running efforts will continue to be below average because our line isn't built for the run. Though we've had upgrades in certain areas, this line is patchwork due to injuries and lack of playing together... it is built to pass protect... not run smash mouth ball.

I don't understand how Ben doesn't have the ball in his hands running the no-huddle. This is the bread and butter of our offense. I have an opinion to why this isn't so, but I don't want to be crucified or be lumped in as an Arians-Basher. I will say, that I was pleasantly surprised by some of the calls BA made and even more pleased with the results. I still think he's an unimaginative turd, but as long as we keep up with the league elite teams, I'm cool with it.

Bottom line, we are one of six teams tied for the best record in the NFL... regardless of our mounting injuries and our "geriatric" D. We are not the Cowboys nor the Bills and I for one am very happy at this juncture of the season... and anybody whining about this team is a little "BITCH" in my opinion. Not enjoying how things are playing out? Remember this team in the 80's and you'll feel real good about what is happening with the Steelers this season.

Gotta get back to the Mrs and my first bottle of wine with her in two years... sorry for the rant... don't really post often, or very much when I do post. Peace to all my brothers/sisters.

papillon
11-09-2010, 09:32 PM
He was 14 of 21 for 144 and a TD after 30 minutes.

Then we threw the ball only 6 times in a half in quarters 3 and 4.

The stats are irrelevant the passing game was not in a groove last night. The offensive line was patchwork and passing the ball was more dangerous than running the ball. A patchwork offensive line with stunts and blitzes is more difficult to block than a hat on a hat running play. They used what was working for them and it should have worked again had Legursky not whiffed.

Pappy

Crash
11-09-2010, 09:32 PM
Wallace is the only guy they have thats reliable at this point.

Disagree. Heath Miller, Hines Ward, Moore and Mendenhall out of the back field all have proven they are reliable.

If you are going to base this on a couple of fumbles in the past two games (Miller and Hines), then you are obviously not seeing the big picture....like years of reliability. Hello? :wink:

We don't use Heath. He's being wasted as a 3rd and long blocker in the backfield.

Moore's play and skill have declined for the past two years.

We don't use Mendenhall enough as a receiver and he should be. I agree there.

Hines is done. Old, slow, can't catch anymore. Less than 40 yards in 5 of 8 games.

Crash
11-09-2010, 09:35 PM
He was 14 of 21 for 144 and a TD after 30 minutes.

Then we threw the ball only 6 times in a half in quarters 3 and 4.

The stats are irrelevant the passing game was not in a groove last night. The offensive line was patchwork and passing the ball was more dangerous than running the ball. A patchwork offensive line with stunts and blitzes is more difficult to block than a hat on a hat running play. They used what was working for them and it should have worked again had Legursky not whiffed.

Pappy

For most of the night the running game wasn't working either. We went turtle at the beginning of the second half. Didn't work.

How we opened the game is how we need to play. Quick stuff, mis-direction, get Miller involved, use Mendy as a pass catcher. Then take you're chances deep.

papillon
11-09-2010, 09:55 PM
He was 14 of 21 for 144 and a TD after 30 minutes.

Then we threw the ball only 6 times in a half in quarters 3 and 4.

The stats are irrelevant the passing game was not in a groove last night. The offensive line was patchwork and passing the ball was more dangerous than running the ball. A patchwork offensive line with stunts and blitzes is more difficult to block than a hat on a hat running play. They used what was working for them and it should have worked again had Legursky not whiffed.

Pappy

For most of the night the running game wasn't working either. We went turtle at the beginning of the second half. Didn't work.

How we opened the game is how we need to play. Quick stuff, mis-direction, get Miller involved, use Mendy as a pass catcher. Then take you're chances deep.

Rarely does a running game get going early in the game. It becomes effective after you've pounded them for 30 or more minutes and they begin to tire. I don't want the Steelers to run the ball like the 70s either, but it was there on that last drive. No reason to get away from it when it's working.

I will agree that the first two drives of the second half were bad calls and execution. I would have preferred the first drive to be more on Ben and sprinkle in the running game, but they didn't. Those drives may have been used to set up the Randel El pass to Wallace by trying to bring the safeties up to the LOS. There's more to playing offense than what is happening on the current drive. The offensive coordinator is setting up the defense for something later in the game as well.

There's too much we don't know as casual fans watching on TV to make any kind of assessment. We only know what we see, we have no idea what the big picture is for the game.

Pappy

fordfixer
11-09-2010, 11:27 PM
An above average football acumen and laptop is a dangerous combo. :lol:


So are you saying that you donít agree that when the Steelers get a lead late even when the outcome is still in question they would prefer to grind it out, play safe, chew up clock, and not allow their franchise QB to have the game in his hands??

No Dub, just love the grandiose posts of some and the see/saw laments of others. Some need to post with a little less emotion and more logic, while others need to read with more clarity and retort with a lot less bias. This board is a collective of various opinions, some based on facts others based on sheer conjecture. Regardless, this is the place to state those opinions and when opinions differ... respectful and highly entertaining debates are always welcomed. Let's keep this all in perspective folks.

We can continue to post the self-righteous soap box 'I told you so / I predicted blah blah blah' posts... and the ever so popular 'let me lump all you guys together because you have an opposing viewpoint' posts... then there's the secret agenda 'regardless of the subject matter being discussed, I'll just come and spew my rant anyway' posts and finally the 'let me poke the bear, antagonizing the putz on the other end of this keyboard' posts... as long as we are reminded to keep it civil and above all read things with extremely thick skins.

As to your questions for me... I love any plan of action that seals the win for the good guys in Black and Gold. We can have all our armchair viewpoints on how last night's 3rd and 4th quarter management should of gone, but we aren't NFL coaches or coordinators, regardless of how much time anybody has played division 1 college ball or played Madden. By some people's assertion, if Ben isn't chucking the ball 50 times a night we have no chance of winning. Others believe we need to be "traditional" in our smashmouth ground game to be successful and retain our old school offensive identity. What's the answer? Who knows.. but balance is us getting the win with whatever means we have at our disposal, whether through the run or the pass.

The skinny IMHO (devoid of agenda or prejudice).... our receivers though competent do not run crisp routes either by design or by lack of skillset. Our running efforts will continue to be below average because our line isn't built for the run. Though we've had upgrades in certain areas, this line is patchwork due to injuries and lack of playing together... it is built to pass protect... not run smash mouth ball.

I don't understand how Ben doesn't have the ball in his hands running the no-huddle. This is the bread and butter of our offense. I have an opinion to why this isn't so, but I don't want to be crucified or be lumped in as an Arians-Basher. I will say, that I was pleasantly surprised by some of the calls BA made and even more pleased with the results. I still think he's an unimaginative turd, but as long as we keep up with the league elite teams, I'm cool with it.

Bottom line, we are one of six teams tied for the best record in the NFL... regardless of our mounting injuries and our "geriatric" D. We are not the Cowboys nor the Bills and I for one am very happy at this juncture of the season... and anybody whining about this team is a little "BITCH" in my opinion. Not enjoying how things are playing out? Remember this team in the 80's and you'll feel real good about what is happening with the Steelers this season.

Gotta get back to the Mrs and my first bottle of wine with her in two years... sorry for the rant... don't really post often, or very much when I do post. Peace to all my brothers/sisters.


Wow who would have thought that slanted eye's could see that clearly :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 Very well said AA

birtikidis
11-10-2010, 12:20 AM
weren't several of those 7 runs audibles by Ben himself? I think even Jaws saw it. why can't you?

Shawn
11-10-2010, 12:29 AM
Part of our issues are our WR core. I stand by the fact that our WRs are suspect at best. Ward has been showing his age all season. He is no longer money reliable and his route running looks like he is running through mud. Wallace while speedy is really raw. His route running has to get better. ARE lol. Sanders is going to be good I believe but that is a few years off. Ben can be as good as he wants to be but if WRs can't get open Ben can't do much. I liked the running calls at the end of the game personally.

Totally disagree. Mike Wallace is knocking stardom's door down. He has more than arrived. He is here Shawn. I know you want another receiver but accept it. This kid is the real deal. I too would like another bonafide receiver but this team has more than enough pass catchers. Wallace, Heath Miller, Hines Ward, and two guys out of the backfield, Moore and an improving Mendenhall, and the Steelers are far from lacking.

Let it go dude. We didnt get Moss nor did we want or need him.

Wallace will be a star in this league I believe. But, he isn't there. He won't be there until he starts to put together clutch first down catches. Right now he is a pure home run hitter. I love having him. I think he will be terrific and at times is. But, even the coaches know he has alot of work to do to become an elite WR.

birtikidis
11-10-2010, 12:42 AM
Part of our issues are our WR core. I stand by the fact that our WRs are suspect at best. Ward has been showing his age all season. He is no longer money reliable and his route running looks like he is running through mud. Wallace while speedy is really raw. His route running has to get better. ARE lol. Sanders is going to be good I believe but that is a few years off. Ben can be as good as he wants to be but if WRs can't get open Ben can't do much. I liked the running calls at the end of the game personally.

Totally disagree. Mike Wallace is knocking stardom's door down. He has more than arrived. He is here Shawn. I know you want another receiver but accept it. This kid is the real deal. I too would like another bonafide receiver but this team has more than enough pass catchers. Wallace, Heath Miller, Hines Ward, and two guys out of the backfield, Moore and an improving Mendenhall, and the Steelers are far from lacking.

Let it go dude. We didnt get Moss nor did we want or need him.

Wallace will be a star in this league I believe. But, he isn't there. He won't be there until he starts to put together clutch first down catches. Right now he is a pure home run hitter. I love having him. I think he will be terrific and at times is. But, even the coaches know he has alot of work to do to become an elite WR.
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 01:45 PM
Part of our issues are our WR core. I stand by the fact that our WRs are suspect at best. Ward has been showing his age all season. He is no longer money reliable and his route running looks like he is running through mud. Wallace while speedy is really raw. His route running has to get better. ARE lol. Sanders is going to be good I believe but that is a few years off. Ben can be as good as he wants to be but if WRs can't get open Ben can't do much. I liked the running calls at the end of the game personally.

Totally disagree. Mike Wallace is knocking stardom's door down. He has more than arrived. He is here Shawn. I know you want another receiver but accept it. This kid is the real deal. I too would like another bonafide receiver but this team has more than enough pass catchers. Wallace, Heath Miller, Hines Ward, and two guys out of the backfield, Moore and an improving Mendenhall, and the Steelers are far from lacking.

Let it go dude. We didnt get Moss nor did we want or need him.

Wallace will be a star in this league I believe. But, he isn't there. He won't be there until he starts to put together clutch first down catches. Right now he is a pure home run hitter. I love having him. I think he will be terrific and at times is. But, even the coaches know he has alot of work to do to become an elite WR.

Ok Shawn keep ignoring it for your own personal agenda. The facts are this..nearly every time Wallace touches the ball something electric happens.

In a year and a half in the NFL Wallace has done----? 61 rec. 1263 yards for a 20.7 average and has 11 TDís.

If Wallace was the number 1 go to guy of the Steelers these numbers would be off the charts. But because he is the #3 option his numbers are curtailed a bit. When this team realizes he should get the ball more than Hines Ward he is going to blow up. Him being the 3rd option has very little to do with is route running. It is a pecking order based on a player above him who is a legend.

We have seen him be good enough in his route running to run a slant, bubble screen, post, skinny post, and the double move. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. And all receivers need to work on their route running. We have a 13 year veteran who still needs to work on his route running. But we have seen enough in Wallace to see he can get the job done. Or at least those who donít have an axe to grind.

feltdizz
11-10-2010, 01:56 PM
Wallace has a way to go... obviously he is a burner but underneath we have yet to see if Wallace is that guy.

I doubt Ben is just ignoring Wallace to kep Hines happy. Ben throws it where he thinks he can complete a pass. He has 2 eyes and one football.

Crash
11-10-2010, 02:04 PM
The problem is 3rd down and longs. They'll double Wallace because they know Hines and El can't get open and Sanders is a rookie. Miller is wasted as a blocker/safety valve.

Gotta stay out of 3rd and longs.

It IS, really that simple.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 02:10 PM
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 02:14 PM
It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

feltdizz
11-10-2010, 02:39 PM
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.

what do you mean by a Hines Ward, Heath Miller receiver?

These guys aren't running by anyone... they are hard nosed, gritty receivers but I think plenty of teams have receivers of their talent. It's the other things these 2 do that make them special IMO.

feltdizz
11-10-2010, 02:44 PM
It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

damn near every time they put the sideline mics on Ben on the sideline he is talking about the safety shadowing Wallace.

I think Ben and fans know what they have in Wallace...

Oviedo
11-10-2010, 02:58 PM
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.

what do you mean by a Hines Ward, Heath Miller receiver?

These guys aren't running by anyone... they are hard nosed, gritty receivers but I think plenty of teams have receivers of their talent. It's the other things these 2 do that make them special IMO.

IMO Hines is part of the problem. He can't get away from coverage and get separation off the LOS. He has to run around and "lose" his coverage. That takes time.

Same thing with ARE which is why Sanders should be playing.

Shawn
11-10-2010, 03:08 PM
[quote=Shawn]Part of our issues are our WR core. I stand by the fact that our WRs are suspect at best. Ward has been showing his age all season. He is no longer money reliable and his route running looks like he is running through mud. Wallace while speedy is really raw. His route running has to get better. ARE lol. Sanders is going to be good I believe but that is a few years off. Ben can be as good as he wants to be but if WRs can't get open Ben can't do much. I liked the running calls at the end of the game personally.

Totally disagree. Mike Wallace is knocking stardom's door down. He has more than arrived. He is here Shawn. I know you want another receiver but accept it. This kid is the real deal. I too would like another bonafide receiver but this team has more than enough pass catchers. Wallace, Heath Miller, Hines Ward, and two guys out of the backfield, Moore and an improving Mendenhall, and the Steelers are far from lacking.

Let it go dude. We didnt get Moss nor did we want or need him.

Wallace will be a star in this league I believe. But, he isn't there. He won't be there until he starts to put together clutch first down catches. Right now he is a pure home run hitter. I love having him. I think he will be terrific and at times is. But, even the coaches know he has alot of work to do to become an elite WR.

Ok Shawn keep ignoring it for your own personal agenda. The facts are this..nearly every time Wallace touches the ball something electric happens.

In a year and a half in the NFL Wallace has done----? 61 rec. 1263 yards for a 20.7 average and has 11 TDís.

If Wallace was the number 1 go to guy of the Steelers these numbers would be off the charts. But because he is the #3 option his numbers are curtailed a bit. When this team realizes he should get the ball more than Hines Ward he is going to blow up. Him being the 3rd option has very little to do with is route running. It is a pecking order based on a player above him who is a legend.

We have seen him be good enough in his route running to run a slant, bubble screen, post, skinny post, and the double move. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. And all receivers need to work on their route running. We have a 13 year veteran who still needs to work on his route running. But we have seen enough in Wallace to see he can get the job done. Or at least those who donít have an axe to grind.[/quote:1yy2yr1g]

I have no agenda other than being a Steeler fan with eyes. The numbers are not elite numbers first and foremost. Second, does Ben look to Wallace to move chains? No. There is a reason for that and Tomlin spoke about that recently in the press conference. He is not in the elite league yet and not sure why anyone would think that he is. He is very raw, with questionable route running skills. But, no one can argue that his ceiling is very high and he is improving with every game. Do I believe he will be elite? I think that's a reasonable possibility but like others have said I won't hand him that crown until he earns it.

Shawn
11-10-2010, 03:10 PM
It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

Who doesn't see that Wallace is very good? I'm not sure why you are so angry. Wallace just needs to put together a complete game before we call him elite.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 03:22 PM
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.

what do you mean by a Hines Ward, Heath Miller receiver?

These guys aren't running by anyone... they are hard nosed, gritty receivers but I think plenty of teams have receivers of their talent. It's the other things these 2 do that make them special IMO.


Simple for Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald and the teams they play on, name me the their equivalents to Hines Ward and Heath Miller. You cant because they dont have them. As a result this gives Mike Wallace an edge that they dont have.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 03:29 PM
It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

Who doesn't see that Wallace is very good? I'm not sure why you are so angry. Wallace just needs to put together a complete game before we call him elite.

Mike Wallace 2010 Projected 44 1014 23.0 10TD's

This is as maybe the number 3 target. I think if he were the go-to guy he'd be as elite as it gets.

Crash
11-10-2010, 03:40 PM
And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

The Saints DID NOT allow Wallace to get deep on them. They rolled coverage and doubled him.

That won't make El any better and it won't make Hines Ward 25 years old again.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 04:00 PM
And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

The Saints DID NOT allow Wallace to get deep on them. They rolled coverage and doubled him.

That won't make El any better and it won't make Hines Ward 25 years old again.

I am in agreement with you on El...but you are mistaken on the Saints rolling the coverage. They were constantly in an 8 and 9 man box. They were bringing the house after Ben. There was no deep safety over the top or rolled to Wallace's way.

Shawn
11-10-2010, 04:00 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":274jt84b]It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

Who doesn't see that Wallace is very good? I'm not sure why you are so angry. Wallace just needs to put together a complete game before we call him elite.

Mike Wallace 2010 Projected 44 1014 23.0 10TD's

This is as maybe the number 3 target. I think if he were the go-to guy he'd be as elite as it gets.[/quote:274jt84b]

Elite WRs command the ball by getting open and by their play. If he is the third look that is very telling. Why do you think that is? Tomlin hates him? Why was Tomlin calling him a one trick pony? Maybe because it's true?

Until he learns to run a crisp route and get open not by speed but by smarts he will not be considered elite.

Shawn
11-10-2010, 04:01 PM
And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

The Saints DID NOT allow Wallace to get deep on them. They rolled coverage and doubled him.

That won't make El any better and it won't make Hines Ward 25 years old again.

I am in agreement with you on El...but you are mistaken on the Saints rolling the coverage. They were constantly in an 8 and 9 man box. They were bringing the house after Ben. There was no deep safety over the top or rolled to Wallace's way.

The announcers must have been wrong as well because they mentioned it during the game.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 04:08 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2goybrfp]It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

Who doesn't see that Wallace is very good? I'm not sure why you are so angry. Wallace just needs to put together a complete game before we call him elite.

Mike Wallace 2010 Projected 44 1014 23.0 10TD's

This is as maybe the number 3 target. I think if he were the go-to guy he'd be as elite as it gets.

Elite WRs command the ball by getting open and by their play. If he is the third look that is very telling. Why do you think that is? Tomlin hates him? Why was Tomlin calling him a one trick pony? Maybe because it's true?

Until he learns to run a crisp route and get open not by speed but by smarts he will not be considered elite.[/quote:2goybrfp]

It is a trust issue. It is the way the Steelers have nearly always done things with young players. It doesnt mean it is the best way. You know this. Wallace caught 5 passes Monday night. You dont think he could have gotten another 3 or 4? I do. And when that day comes he is going to blow up. I think it could be now...and based on what was said by the Monday Night Crew, Tomlin believes Wallace is earning more.

Crash
11-10-2010, 04:11 PM
Last year he was a one trick pony.

He hasn't been this season.

A one trick pony now is Hines Ward, who you only see for the most part when we run a WR screen.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 04:12 PM
And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

The Saints DID NOT allow Wallace to get deep on them. They rolled coverage and doubled him.

That won't make El any better and it won't make Hines Ward 25 years old again.

I am in agreement with you on El...but you are mistaken on the Saints rolling the coverage. They were constantly in an 8 and 9 man box. They were bringing the house after Ben. There was no deep safety over the top or rolled to Wallace's way.

The announcers must have been wrong as well because they mentioned it during the game.

Did you not watch the game? Did you not see 8 and 9 at or inside the box for most of the game? Where they not bringing or showing blitz most of the night? How do you roll coverage with a safety when 8 or 9 inside the box leaves you one deep?? Makes no sense no matter who you heard it from.

I understand Shawn...your football knowledge is confined to what you hear or read. :wink: Cool.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 04:18 PM
Since Ben has come back here is a comparison between Hines Ward and Mike Wallace.

Hines

18 rec. 210 yards 11.6 YPC 3 TDís

Wallace

13 rec. 296 yards 22.76 ypc 3 TDís

I think it is time. But thatís just me.

Change the progression and Wallace is blowing Hines away. Let him be the #1 now and watch what happens.

ikestops85
11-10-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm siding with Dee Dub on this. Wallace is here ... I don't think he is elite yet but he is one of the better receivers in the league. Go to the Pats board right now and read what they are concerned about. They fear Wallace torching there beat up secondary.

Wallace has shown no fear running over the middle. His hands seem to be as reliable as anyone else on the team. I can't tell you that he runs the crispest routes in the world but he seems to get open. Ben is looking for him more and more.

I also don't get the criticism of Hines. He has never been a fast receiver. He has always gotten by on his grit and determination. That hasn't left him. I don't think he's the one they should be throwing to on the bubble screen. I'd rather see him block on that play but he is still a productive receiver.

ARE is the one of questionable value in my book. I know he is a veteran player but as I watched a ball go zinging by his head Monday night and him not having any idea it had been thrown I had to ask myself ... "Couldn't one of our rookies done that?" Sorry ARE but I think your time has passed. Keep Sanders and Brown active on game days and we have a better team.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 05:42 PM
Wallace has shown no fear running over the middle. His hands seem to be as reliable as anyone else on the team. I can't tell you that he runs the crispest routes in the world but he seems to get open. Ben is looking for him more and more.

And not only that but Wallace has shown the ability to go up after the ball and also come back for it. The under throw by ARE was a prime example. That ball should have been picked but Wallace had the skill set to come back and get it. And that is just as important as crisp route running... :wink:


I also don't get the criticism of Hines. He has never been a fast receiver. He has always gotten by on his grit and determination. That hasn't left him. I don't think he's the one they should be throwing to on the bubble screen. I'd rather see him block on that play but he is still a productive receiver.

I honestly think that if an when Wallace becomes to number 1 go-to guy this may rejuvenate and prolong Hines Ward's career. Teams are going to gear to stop Wallace. This is going to make the procession receiver much more available. See what Randy Moss did for Wes Welker.




ARE is the one of questionable value in my book. I know he is a veteran player but as I watched a ball go zinging by his head Monday night and him not having any idea it had been thrown I had to ask myself ... "Couldn't one of our rookies done that?" Sorry ARE but I think your time has passed. Keep Sanders and Brown active on game days and we have a better team.

Agreed 100%. I have no idea why ARE is suiting up. He brings very little value to this team. Itís that thing againÖSteelers just donít want to trust younger players.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
11-10-2010, 05:52 PM
Guys...I was reading this and saw it mentioned. Not sure who said it.

The last three games...The Steelers faced 2 deep man under when the Steelers went to "
"10" & "11" personnel. I hope you could follow. The same poster was correct at saying they faced 8 & 9 in the box but that is when the Steelers were in "13" ,"21","22", & "23" personnel. Being that Johnson is a TE/FB who knows what to call it.

Shawn
11-10-2010, 06:15 PM
[quote=Shawn][quote="Dee Dub":1idcwkb3]It is amazing how so many people outside of Pittsburgh Steeler fans sees the coming/arrival of Mike Wallace but most Steelers fans donít see this.

And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

Many here we go againÖ.itís the we need to keep Willie Parker fans all over again. :roll:

Who doesn't see that Wallace is very good? I'm not sure why you are so angry. Wallace just needs to put together a complete game before we call him elite.

Mike Wallace 2010 Projected 44 1014 23.0 10TD's

This is as maybe the number 3 target. I think if he were the go-to guy he'd be as elite as it gets.

Elite WRs command the ball by getting open and by their play. If he is the third look that is very telling. Why do you think that is? Tomlin hates him? Why was Tomlin calling him a one trick pony? Maybe because it's true?

Until he learns to run a crisp route and get open not by speed but by smarts he will not be considered elite.[/quote:1idcwkb3]

It is a trust issue. It is the way the Steelers have nearly always done things with young players. It doesnt mean it is the best way. You know this. Wallace caught 5 passes Monday night. You dont think he could have gotten another 3 or 4? I do. And when that day comes he is going to blow up. I think it could be now...and based on what was said by the Monday Night Crew, Tomlin believes Wallace is earning more.[/quote:1idcwkb3]

I don't think we disagree by much. I agree his time is coming...and sooner rather than later.

Shawn
11-10-2010, 06:17 PM
[quote]And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

The Saints DID NOT allow Wallace to get deep on them. They rolled coverage and doubled him.

That won't make El any better and it won't make Hines Ward 25 years old again.

I am in agreement with you on El...but you are mistaken on the Saints rolling the coverage. They were constantly in an 8 and 9 man box. They were bringing the house after Ben. There was no deep safety over the top or rolled to Wallace's way.

The announcers must have been wrong as well because they mentioned it during the game.

Did you not watch the game? Did you not see 8 and 9 at or inside the box for most of the game? Where they not bringing or showing blitz most of the night? How do you roll coverage with a safety when 8 or 9 inside the box leaves you one deep?? Makes no sense no matter who you heard it from.

I understand Shawn...your football knowledge is confined to what you hear or read. :wink: Cool.[/quote:2nacrbsc]

I don't claim to be a football guru like yourself. I am merely pointing out what the announcers said. And honestly, I rarely study the game when I'm watching football. Usually, I'm just watching as a casual fan.

papillon
11-10-2010, 06:28 PM
If Wallace isn't #1 in the progressions he will almost certainly be by the end of the year. The Steelers simply won't be able to sustain a passing game if WRs don't start getting open within 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. Ben is looking and waiting too long and finally getting to Wallace.

He'll be #1 by seasons end, his catches will escalate and his YPC will come down a bit, but he will be #1. He seems to be the only guy that can get open, deep, short or in between.

Pappy

birtikidis
11-10-2010, 06:58 PM
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.
This really reminds me of your arguement for Mike WIlliams when he came out of USC and how you essentially were making him out to be the best receiver in the NFL before he was even drafted.

pepsyman1
11-10-2010, 07:37 PM
I personally thought that overall, Arians called a pretty good game. I would have rather seen him do a few more first down throws in the second half (They did a very good job of mixing it up on first down in the first half.) I had no problem with calling runs on the Steelers last drive before the missed field goal AS LONG AS we were getting the big chunks that Mendi was getting, but you can only lean on a RB so many plays in a row...and our other RB's were out of the game. At that point, there should have been better judgement. We would have been better off with a first down pass at that point.. Running on the 3rd down play was a bad idea, but otherwise I thought it was one of Arians better called games. We kept the ball for over 32 minutes, we scored 27 points, if Ben doesn't throw that bad interception, we win easily.

Dee Dub
11-10-2010, 08:03 PM
I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.
This really reminds me of your arguement for Mike WIlliams when he came out of USC and how you essentially were making him out to be the best receiver in the NFL before he was even drafted.

Yeah that makes sense. :roll: We are talking about a player who is in year two of his NFL career and is starting to light it up on the field.

Wow!! :HeadBanger

Show me a receiver in the history of the NFL who has done this in his first two NFL seasons..

Year 1--lead the league in yards per catch
Year 2-lead the league in yards per catch

61 career catches for 1263 yards and 11 TD's??

feltdizz
11-10-2010, 09:56 PM
[quote=birtikidis]

I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.

what do you mean by a Hines Ward, Heath Miller receiver?

These guys aren't running by anyone... they are hard nosed, gritty receivers but I think plenty of teams have receivers of their talent. It's the other things these 2 do that make them special IMO.

Simple for Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald and the teams they play on, name me the their equivalents to Hines Ward and Heath Miller. You cant because they dont have them. As a result this gives Mike Wallace an edge that they dont have.[/quote:zquc0pw4]

as far as production is concerned I think over half the league have Wards and Millers at receiver. Miller and Hines have name recognition because we win a lot.... but it isn't because of their stats.

teams don't fear Miller and Hines as receivers... as blockers and gritty hard nose receivers who dish out punishment after the catch, maybe a little but dude. Hines is respected for his style of play not for his production or speed.

4 WR's... which one give you an OBVIOUS edge?
24 rec 237 yards 1 TD
22 rec 266 yards 3 TD
25 rec 358 yards 1 TD
30 rec 375 yards 4 TD

3 TE's... which one gives you the OBVIOUS edge?
13 rec 191 yards 2 TD
16 rec 200 yards 1 TD
20 rec 243 yards 1 TD
20 rec 242 yards 1 TD

feltdizz
11-10-2010, 10:06 PM
I personally thought that overall, Arians called a pretty good game. I would have rather seen him do a few more first down throws in the second half (They did a very good job of mixing it up on first down in the first half.) I had no problem with calling runs on the Steelers last drive before the missed field goal AS LONG AS we were getting the big chunks that Mendi was getting, but you can only lean on a RB so many plays in a row...and our other RB's were out of the game. At that point, there should have been better judgement. We would have been better off with a first down pass at that point.. Running on the 3rd down play was a bad idea, but otherwise I thought it was one of Arians better called games. We kept the ball for over 32 minutes, we scored 27 points, if Ben doesn't throw that bad interception, we win easily.

I only like pass plays if they are completed. :D

a pass risk the chance of an INT or stopping the clock. I think the draw was the perfect call. Legursky missed a block. It happens.

birtikidis
11-11-2010, 03:12 PM
[quote=birtikidis]

I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.
This really reminds me of your arguement for Mike WIlliams when he came out of USC and how you essentially were making him out to be the best receiver in the NFL before he was even drafted.

Yeah that makes sense. :roll: We are talking about a player who is in year two of his NFL career and is starting to light it up on the field.

Wow!! :HeadBanger

Show me a receiver in the history of the NFL who has done this in his first two NFL seasons..

Year 1--lead the league in yards per catch
Year 2-lead the league in yards per catch

61 career catches for 1263 yards and 11 TD's??[/quote:17cxrx3v]
I remember btw, that Fitz had a guy named Boldin who was a hell of a reciever opposite him and he was still tearing the league up. Hell Moss was setting record like crazy when he had Carter on the opposite side of him.. oh and they all caught more than 61 balls in their first two years... Hell I think Fitz and Moss caught that in their first year...
yea moss had 69.. as a rook
and fitz had 59... as a rook.
those are superstar in the making numbers. not 61 in two years. Hell Troy Edwards had 61 catches his rookie year.

Dee Dub
11-11-2010, 03:38 PM
[quote=birtikidis]

I agree with you shawn. He is gonna get there, but really, is he in Andre Johnsons, Larry Fitzgerald, or these elite receivers league? not yet. maybe he'll make it there, but don't crown him.

And they arent Mike Wallace. Different skills sets. Neither of those two have the speed that Wallace has. And neither of those two and their teams have a Hines Ward, Heath Miller, etc. as complimentary receivers.
This really reminds me of your arguement for Mike WIlliams when he came out of USC and how you essentially were making him out to be the best receiver in the NFL before he was even drafted.

Yeah that makes sense. :roll: We are talking about a player who is in year two of his NFL career and is starting to light it up on the field.

Wow!! :HeadBanger

Show me a receiver in the history of the NFL who has done this in his first two NFL seasons..

Year 1--lead the league in yards per catch
Year 2-lead the league in yards per catch

61 career catches for 1263 yards and 11 TD's??
I remember btw, that Fitz had a guy named Boldin who was a hell of a reciever opposite him and he was still tearing the league up. Hell Moss was setting record like crazy when he had Carter on the opposite side of him.. oh and they all caught more than 61 balls in their first two years... Hell I think Fitz and Moss caught that in their first year...
yea moss had 69.. as a rook
and fitz had 59... as a rook.
those are superstar in the making numbers. not 61 in two years. Hell Troy Edwards had 61 catches his rookie year.[/quote:2mhmovyh]

Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

birtikidis
11-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Dee, I love Wallace, and I think he will be a good one.. I just don't see him as being elite. He has holes in his game, and when he fills those holes, he will be.
and thanks for making my point. elite recievers aren't #3-5 on a depth chart :wink:

Dee Dub
11-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Dee, I love Wallace, and I think he will be a good one.. I just don't see him as being elite. He has holes in his game, and when he fills those holes, he will be.
and thanks for making my point. elite recievers aren't #3-5 on a depth chart :wink:

That's not fair. This is the way of the Steelers. Antwan Randle El is the #3...in your honest opinion he is better that Emmanuel Sanders? Nope...but that is the Steeler way when it comes to young players. So where one is on the Steeler depth chart doesnt always mean it is based on a skill set.

OK..I am willing to bet by season end..Mike Wallace is considered the elite receiver on the Steelers.

birtikidis
11-11-2010, 04:07 PM
Dee, I love Wallace, and I think he will be a good one.. I just don't see him as being elite. He has holes in his game, and when he fills those holes, he will be.
and thanks for making my point. elite recievers aren't #3-5 on a depth chart :wink:

That's not fair. This is the way of the Steelers. Antwan Randle El is the #3...in your honest opinion he is better that Emmanuel Sanders? Nope...but that is the Steeler way when it comes to young players. So where one is on the Steeler depth chart doesnt always mean it is based on a skill set.

OK..I am willing to bet by season end..Mike Wallace is considered the elite receiver on the Steelers.
Fair or not, it is reality.

feltdizz
11-11-2010, 05:24 PM
Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

Wallace is not our 3rd option. He is our #1B option.

Ben isn't looking to throw to Miller or Hines if Wallace is open. One thing we don't have to worry about is Ben looking at Miller too much. LOL.

Wallace is a deep threat... he is making great catches underneath but it's not like he is weaving through traffic and making players miss like Holmes was able to do. Wallace cn run past anyone.. but I think we are all waiting to see if he can run around guys underneath and make things happen in the 10 to 15 yard range.

However, with his speed it doesn't make sense to cap him.. he makes it easier for other guys to operate.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-11-2010, 05:55 PM
Can you imagine how good our receiving corps would be right now if we had Stonio with his skillset in there instead of ARE?

Too bad he couldn't keep away from his beloved weed.

Crash
11-11-2010, 05:58 PM
Could have had TO for less than what we are paying ARE.

cruzer8
11-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

Wallace is not our 3rd option. He is our #1B option.

Ben isn't looking to throw to Miller or Hines if Wallace is open. One thing we don't have to worry about is Ben looking at Miller too much. LOL.

Wallace is a deep threat... he is making great catches underneath but it's not like he is weaving through traffic and making players miss like Holmes was able to do. Wallace cn run past anyone.. but I think we are all waiting to see if he can run around guys underneath and make things happen in the 10 to 15 yard range.

However, with his speed it doesn't make sense to cap him.. he makes it easier for other guys to operate.

So those 76 receptions last season were by accident then?

Dee Dub
11-11-2010, 07:02 PM
Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

Wallace is not our 3rd option. He is our #1B option.

Ben isn't looking to throw to Miller or Hines if Wallace is open. One thing we don't have to worry about is Ben looking at Miller too much. LOL.

Wallace is a deep threat... he is making great catches underneath but it's not like he is weaving through traffic and making players miss like Holmes was able to do. Wallace cn run past anyone.. but I think we are all waiting to see if he can run around guys underneath and make things happen in the 10 to 15 yard range.

However, with his speed it doesn't make sense to cap him.. he makes it easier for other guys to operate.

So those 76 receptions last season were by accident then?

Exactly. Heath Miller right now is Benís number two option. Yes numbers are down this year but some are forgetting Ben missed the first 4 games. Miller is still one of the best pass catching TE in the league.

feltdizz
11-11-2010, 07:10 PM
Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

Wallace is not our 3rd option. He is our #1B option.

Ben isn't looking to throw to Miller or Hines if Wallace is open. One thing we don't have to worry about is Ben looking at Miller too much. LOL.

Wallace is a deep threat... he is making great catches underneath but it's not like he is weaving through traffic and making players miss like Holmes was able to do. Wallace cn run past anyone.. but I think we are all waiting to see if he can run around guys underneath and make things happen in the 10 to 15 yard range.

However, with his speed it doesn't make sense to cap him.. he makes it easier for other guys to operate.

So those 76 receptions last season were by accident then?

plenty of people on here talk about how Miller is ignored or isn't utilized enough...

the LOL was typed for a reason :wink:

birtikidis
11-11-2010, 07:16 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":3oogkk1w]

Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

Wallace is not our 3rd option. He is our #1B option.

Ben isn't looking to throw to Miller or Hines if Wallace is open. One thing we don't have to worry about is Ben looking at Miller too much. LOL.
Wallace is a deep threat... he is making great catches underneath but it's not like he is weaving through traffic and making players miss like Holmes was able to do. Wallace cn run past anyone.. but I think we are all waiting to see if he can run around guys underneath and make things happen in the 10 to 15 yard range.

However, with his speed it doesn't make sense to cap him.. he makes it easier for other guys to operate.

So those 76 receptions last season were by accident then?

Exactly. Heath Miller right now is Benís number two option. Yes numbers are down this year but some are forgetting Ben missed the first 4 games. Miller is still one of the best pass catching TE in the league.[/quote:3oogkk1w]
so if Miller is the #2 who is #1? and if #1 is who I think it is... wouldn't that make Wallace the #3? how often are Elite Receivers #3?

feltdizz
11-11-2010, 07:38 PM
I think Ben is just throwing to whoever can get open before he gets hit. Ben usually looks long then work's his way back to Hines and Miller.

All of a sudden Miller is our #2? For the last 5 years everyone has screamed he wasn't getting enough looks. Now he is our #2?

Dee Dub
11-11-2010, 07:46 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":o7u05z8j]

Well if you are focusing on the 61 then you probably wont see the point. Last year he was a rookie relegated to the #4 WR and probably 5th option. This year he is probably the 3rd option behind Hines and Heath. Look At what he has done with those 61. That is my point.

My point is this...when and if the Steeler realize he is their best option he is going to blow up.

Wallace is not our 3rd option. He is our #1B option.

Ben isn't looking to throw to Miller or Hines if Wallace is open. One thing we don't have to worry about is Ben looking at Miller too much. LOL.
Wallace is a deep threat... he is making great catches underneath but it's not like he is weaving through traffic and making players miss like Holmes was able to do. Wallace cn run past anyone.. but I think we are all waiting to see if he can run around guys underneath and make things happen in the 10 to 15 yard range.

However, with his speed it doesn't make sense to cap him.. he makes it easier for other guys to operate.

So those 76 receptions last season were by accident then?

Exactly. Heath Miller right now is Benís number two option. Yes numbers are down this year but some are forgetting Ben missed the first 4 games. Miller is still one of the best pass catching TE in the league.
so if Miller is the #2 who is #1? and if #1 is who I think it is... wouldn't that make Wallace the #3? how often are Elite Receivers #3?[/quote:o7u05z8j]

Come on dude...really? Is this that difficult? We all know as Steeler fans that there is a pecking order and that when it comes to the young players regardless of whether they are better or not it usually goes to the more established veteran player. Again..look at Randle El. Why is he even on the field?

I am willing to bet by seasons end..Wallace will have established himself as the #1. It is coming a lot faster than people think.

feltdizz
11-12-2010, 11:46 AM
no doubt the Steeler way is vet first... but we saw what happened in the Saints game with Sanders. He screwed up a perfectly thrown ball to Ward on the 4th and 1.

some people were mad Foote was playing over Timmons even though it was clear Timmons was the better athlete but we won a SB in 2008.

I think our coaches are fine with seeing Sanders and Brown prove their worth before handing them the starting roles. IF we started out 1-3 we probably see more out of the youngsters but we are 6-2 wtih Hines and ARE. Why would we experiment this year when we can work them in slowly.

This is the reason we are competitive most years IMO. We don't rush our guys.

Dee Dub
11-12-2010, 12:26 PM
no doubt the Steeler way is vet first... but we saw what happened in the Saints game with Sanders. He screwed up a perfectly thrown ball to Ward on the 4th and 1.

There are plenty of screw ups from the vets too. Hines fumble? He drops passes as well. And Heath's fumble two weeks ago? That one cost them the game. It goes both ways....so why not play the better football player regardless of experience?

feltdizz
11-12-2010, 02:57 PM
no doubt the Steeler way is vet first... but we saw what happened in the Saints game with Sanders. He screwed up a perfectly thrown ball to Ward on the 4th and 1.

There are plenty of screw ups from the vets too. Hines fumble? He drops passes as well. And Heath's fumble two weeks ago? That one cost them the game. It goes both ways....so why not play the better football player regardless of experience?

because coaches usually put vets over talent. How may times have we seen better players sit behind the vets. IT happens a lot and not just on our team.

birtikidis
11-12-2010, 03:41 PM
Come on dude...really? Is this that difficult? We all know as Steeler fans that there is a pecking order and that when it comes to the young players regardless of whether they are better or not it usually goes to the more established veteran player. Again..look at Randle El. Why is he even on the field?

I am willing to bet by seasons end..Wallace will have established himself as the #1. It is coming a lot faster than people think.
Dee it isn't some conspiracy against young players that keeps them on the bench. Moss, Johnson, Fitz, those guys got on the field because they were not only more talented, but they were also more well rounded players. ready to step on the field and run every route in the passing tree. They were all great at running all of those routes. All I'm saying, is give Mike some time before you make him out to be a superstar.

AngryAsian
11-12-2010, 04:29 PM
Come on dude...really? Is this that difficult? We all know as Steeler fans that there is a pecking order and that when it comes to the young players regardless of whether they are better or not it usually goes to the more established veteran player. Again..look at Randle El. Why is he even on the field?

I am willing to bet by seasons end..Wallace will have established himself as the #1. It is coming a lot faster than people think.
Dee it isn't some conspiracy against young players that keeps them on the bench. Moss, Johnson, Fitz, those guys got on the field because they were not only more talented, but they were also more well rounded players. ready to step on the field and run every route in the passing tree. They were all great at running all of those routes. All I'm saying, is give Mike some time before you make him out to be a superstar.


One thing he needs improving on is catching without using the traditional basket catch. I know most possession receivers catch balls at the highest point, and since Mike hasn't been characterized as a possession receiver, I would think this is something he needs to work on so that he's not labeled as a one trick pony. Speed, talent and work ethic is obviously there... he needs to fine tune things before he's measured as one of the elite.

RuthlessBurgher
11-12-2010, 04:45 PM
Come on dude...really? Is this that difficult? We all know as Steeler fans that there is a pecking order and that when it comes to the young players regardless of whether they are better or not it usually goes to the more established veteran player. Again..look at Randle El. Why is he even on the field?

I am willing to bet by seasons end..Wallace will have established himself as the #1. It is coming a lot faster than people think.
Dee it isn't some conspiracy against young players that keeps them on the bench. Moss, Johnson, Fitz, those guys got on the field because they were not only more talented, but they were also more well rounded players. ready to step on the field and run every route in the passing tree. They were all great at running all of those routes. All I'm saying, is give Mike some time before you make him out to be a superstar.


One thing he needs improving on is catching without using the traditional basket catch. I know most possession receivers catch balls at the highest point, and since Mike hasn't been characterized as a possession receiver, I would think this is something he needs to work on so that he's not labeled as a one trick pony. Speed, talent and work ethic is obviously there... he needs to fine tune things before he's measured as one of the elite.

Good point. The basket catch is fine when you have beaten the coverage and your QB hits you in stride. However, when he has underthrown on deep balls by Dixon/Batch/Ben/Randle El this year, he still waits for the ball to fall into his breadbasket instead of going up to get it at his highest point in traffic.

In this last game, when Wallace was open over the middle on third down when Ben stepped up to avoid pressure in the pocket, Ben threw it high, so he was forced to try to extend his arms above his head and catch it with his hands instead of cradling it, and he flat out dropped it despite getting both hands on the ball.

I love Wallace as a player, but like all young players, he does need to work on certain aspects of his game in order to improve and maximize his vast potential.

AngryAsian
11-12-2010, 06:38 PM
Come on dude...really? Is this that difficult? We all know as Steeler fans that there is a pecking order and that when it comes to the young players regardless of whether they are better or not it usually goes to the more established veteran player. Again..look at Randle El. Why is he even on the field?

I am willing to bet by seasons end..Wallace will have established himself as the #1. It is coming a lot faster than people think.
Dee it isn't some conspiracy against young players that keeps them on the bench. Moss, Johnson, Fitz, those guys got on the field because they were not only more talented, but they were also more well rounded players. ready to step on the field and run every route in the passing tree. They were all great at running all of those routes. All I'm saying, is give Mike some time before you make him out to be a superstar.


One thing he needs improving on is catching without using the traditional basket catch. I know most possession receivers catch balls at the highest point, and since Mike hasn't been characterized as a possession receiver, I would think this is something he needs to work on so that he's not labeled as a one trick pony. Speed, talent and work ethic is obviously there... he needs to fine tune things before he's measured as one of the elite.

Good point. The basket catch is fine when you have beaten the coverage and your QB hits you in stride. However, when he has underthrown on deep balls by Dixon/Batch/Ben/Randle El this year, he still waits for the ball to fall into his breadbasket instead of going up to get it at his highest point in traffic.

In this last game, when Wallace was open over the middle on third down when Ben stepped up to avoid pressure in the pocket, Ben threw it high, so he was forced to try to extend his arms above his head and catch it with his hands instead of cradling it, and he flat out dropped it despite getting both hands on the ball.

I love Wallace as a player, but like all young players, he does need to work on certain aspects of his game in order to improve and maximize his vast potential.


The Jenkins' fingertip catch with under a minute to go in last night's Falcons/Ratbirds game, and also the memorable Stonio SB winning catch in the endzone... both are spectacular instances of a skillset that Mike needs to improve in. I have yet to see those "non-cradling" catches from our number 2... but I know this is something he'll work hard to attain. Like Steve Young said in the post MNF game.... "He's a Pittsburgh Steeler."

ikestops85
11-12-2010, 07:23 PM
One thing he needs improving on is catching without using the traditional basket catch. I know most possession receivers catch balls at the highest point, and since Mike hasn't been characterized as a possession receiver, I would think this is something he needs to work on so that he's not labeled as a one trick pony. Speed, talent and work ethic is obviously there... he needs to fine tune things before he's measured as one of the elite.

Good point. The basket catch is fine when you have beaten the coverage and your QB hits you in stride. However, when he has underthrown on deep balls by Dixon/Batch/Ben/Randle El this year, he still waits for the ball to fall into his breadbasket instead of going up to get it at his highest point in traffic.

In this last game, when Wallace was open over the middle on third down when Ben stepped up to avoid pressure in the pocket, Ben threw it high, so he was forced to try to extend his arms above his head and catch it with his hands instead of cradling it, and he flat out dropped it despite getting both hands on the ball.

I love Wallace as a player, but like all young players, he does need to work on certain aspects of his game in order to improve and maximize his vast potential.


The Jenkins' fingertip catch with under a minute to go in last night's Falcons/Ratbirds game, and also the memorable Stonio SB winning catch in the endzone... both are spectacular instances of a skillset that Mike needs to improve in. I have yet to see those "non-cradling" catches from our number 2... but I know this is something he'll work hard to attain. Like Steve Young said in the post MNF game.... "He's a Pittsburgh Steeler."

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/24/spockorly.gif

I guess you folks didn't watch the New Orleans game where he plucked one out of the air. Do you really think all of his catches have been bombs?

Dee Dub
11-12-2010, 08:23 PM
The Jenkins' fingertip catch with under a minute to go in last night's Falcons/Ratbirds game, and also the memorable Stonio SB winning catch in the endzone... both are spectacular instances of a skillset that Mike needs to improve in. I have yet to see those "non-cradling" catches from our number 2... but I know this is something he'll work hard to attain. Like Steve Young said in the post MNF game.... "He's a Pittsburgh Steeler."

See what you guys knock Wallace for...you also ignore the fact that in other areas...such as...going up after the ball, coming back to it, willing to go over the middle in traffic, and the ability to flat out run past people, even in a deep cover 2. But hey...let's nitpick on a youngster who is going to be the best WR on this team by season's end. And WR that teams are going to have to game plan for.

:tt1

Dee Dub
11-12-2010, 08:26 PM
I guess you folks didn't watch the New Orleans game where he plucked one out of the air. Do you really think all of his catches have been bombs?

Cha-ching!!!

He also took a slant and a bubble screen in heavy traffic without the slightest fear.

AngryAsian
11-12-2010, 08:56 PM
The Jenkins' fingertip catch with under a minute to go in last night's Falcons/Ratbirds game, and also the memorable Stonio SB winning catch in the endzone... both are spectacular instances of a skillset that Mike needs to improve in. I have yet to see those "non-cradling" catches from our number 2... but I know this is something he'll work hard to attain. Like Steve Young said in the post MNF game.... "He's a Pittsburgh Steeler."

See what you guys knock Wallace for...you also ignore the fact that in other areas...such as...going up after the ball, coming back to it, willing to go over the middle in traffic, and the ability to flat out run past people, even in a deep cover 2. But hey...let's nitpick on a youngster who is going to be the best WR on this team by season's end. And WR that teams are going to have to game plan for.

:tt1


Dub, you need to step away from this thread for awhile... your getting a little sensitive over MW. "Knocking on" infers something negative. Reread my post, and I'm sure you'll see the positives that I've noted about him. BTW, I have an authentic Mike Wallace jersey, so I support this budding superstar, I'm just noting areas of his game he could use improvement in.

feltdizz
11-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Dub likes to throw out the old guys anytime a youngster shows promise. While its obvious Wallace is the future I think he still has some growing to do and he is already being game planned against. Not sure what dub wants. He starts and gets 5 to 6 passes a game right now. We aren't going to target any WR 15 times a game.

NJ-STEELER
11-13-2010, 12:40 AM
[quote]And Crash no one currently is doubling Mike Wallace. That day is coming but it isnít here yet. And when it does it will open up everyone else.

The Saints DID NOT allow Wallace to get deep on them. They rolled coverage and doubled him.

That won't make El any better and it won't make Hines Ward 25 years old again.

I am in agreement with you on El...but you are mistaken on the Saints rolling the coverage. They were constantly in an 8 and 9 man box. They were bringing the house after Ben. There was no deep safety over the top or rolled to Wallace's way.

The announcers must have been wrong as well because they mentioned it during the game.

Did you not watch the game? Did you not see 8 and 9 at or inside the box for most of the game? Where they not bringing or showing blitz most of the night? How do you roll coverage with a safety when 8 or 9 inside the box leaves you one deep?? Makes no sense no matter who you heard it from.

I understand Shawn...your football knowledge is confined to what you hear or read. :wink: Cool.[/quote:zdgujp9k]

didn't see if this was answered from page 4 but it does make sense cause most times they still had a saftey back there.

they might have had 8-9 on the LOS, but some of those guys dropped back to cover a TE or RB coming out of the backfiled.

most of those alignments were against our 2 wr package. so, you get 1-1 with ward and corner with safety help on wallace