Steve Young

[Crash]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

[JTP53609]

name me 3 super bowl championships ben has won...you cant he sucks obviously, you can only name 2.... :roll: ...im being sarcastic...
young is a douche

[AngryAsian]

Young is a putz... he stammers and makes inane points. I can't believe he's employed because his observations are often superfluous and lame.

[papillon]

What he was saying and there is some truth to it is that without the great defense it's difficult to win championships the way Ben plays. I kind of understand what he's saying, the problem is that Ben has already won two titles and looking for more.

I would love to see Ben drop back and throw in rhythm, but it isn't happening on a regular basis and that's fine, because, watching Steeler football has never been this much fun. I love it.

Pappy

[Starlifter]

what made it really funny was how young was slobbering all over ben after SB43 saying how he watched him grow into a championship QB. I guess 2 years later in young's mind he's regressed. of course he's just playing 'flavor of the week' game. As soon as ben wins another championship (2 more than young at that point) 'ol stevie will be once again salivating at the chance to lick Ben's nutsack.

[SteelCrazy]

he added, "without a #1 Defense." If that helps......

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

He actually started out his stream of consciousness rambling by saying Ben was friggin' awesome, then somehow it morphed into he's not quite got what it takes.

I admire Steve Young's play and courage on the field, but I think he is actually a poster boy for one concussion too many*. It's kind of sad, I think he used to be a highly intelligent man, now he's just like some old dude in the park, mumbling on and on about stuff.

Except for the multimillion-dollar commentator's salary, of course.

(*What ever happened to Wayne Chrebet?)

[Crash]

He's just upset that Ben gets praised for playing the way Young played when 49ers fans used to complain about it.

"Stay in the pocket"

"Be like Joe"

He heard that a lot.

So now he's saying it to Ben, because the people who praise Ben aren't as retarded as the morons in San Fran were when Young began starting there.

[skyhawk]

Without a #1 defense he says.

The other guys are giving Ben props and Young simply cannot do it.

Doesn't Young realize that Ben has won those games in the playoffs, not the D. Moron. Doesn't he know he has outscored Payton Manning in the playoffs? The defense helps but Young is a muppett.

[SidSmythe]

Steve Young is a Tool and his great, great, grandpa was a nutjob!

[BURGH86STEEL]

Young phased it poorly but I understood where he was coming from. Ben's play is a big reason why the offense appears to struggle with consistency. I've learned to live with it.

[Scarletfire1970]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"So Young continues to bash Ben? 43 actually thought he had a good game. I don't think he was helped out much today by his receivers who can't seem to get open.

[rpmpit]

Love how in the same sentence he said that Troy's great play was purely instinctual AND due to hours of film study. Huh???

[rpmpit]

But actually I thought Young was a bit more Steeler-friendly than he usually is. I enjoyed the interview with Wallace post game when Steve said Mike sounded like a Steeler (after Mike said he comes to work everyday with his hardhat).

[steelblood]

Young's point was the Ben has to also be an effective rhythm passer. In Young's esimation, Ben must get the ball out on time at least 10 times per game in order to become an effective rhythm passer.

I submit that Ben was very close to the ten passes that came out quickly, but I may need a little help...

1. The streak/fade to Wallace
2. The TD pass to Ward
3. The pass to Miller on the first drive (3rd down I believe)
4. The one where he read blitz and threw it to El but El never turned around.
5. The fake end around pass back to Mendenhall on the first drive
6. Pass to Spaeth when backed up at own end zone
7. A 3rd down toss to Ward in the second half

What am I missing?

[Crash]

The pass to Mendenhall before Ward's TD you didn't list. Nor did you list either of Hines' WR screens. Wallace's 3rd quarter catch before a punt. Wallace's catch at the end of the first half (Which was also a helmet to helmet hit on him).

So that's 12 on the night, at least. Young wanted 10 in pre-game.

[flippy]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

[feltdizz]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

Ben has a ring with the OC and helped design the playbook. Let's stop acting like Ben is a freshman in college and the coach who recruited him was fired right before the season started. He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

The real problem is our WR's are old... Hines isn't fast and ARE acts like the football weighs 50 pounds every time he catches it. The guy can't catch and run.

The other problem with out WR's is losing Holmes... he was money at coming back to the football or sitting on routes when Ben was doing his thing in the pocket. These new guys just run... and when it's time to move around they just fade into the night.

Once our youngsters get more reps and understand how Ben operates and get in sync this won't be a problem.

[Oviedo]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

Ben has a ring with the OC and helped design the playbook. Let's stop acting like Ben is a freshman in college and the coach who recruited him was fired right before the season started. He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

The real problem is our WR's are old... Hines isn't fast and ARE acts like the football weighs 50 pounds every time he catches it. The guy can't catch and run.

The other problem with out WR's is losing Holmes... he was money at coming back to the football or sitting on routes when Ben was doing his thing in the pocket. These new guys just run... and when it's time to move around they just fade into the night.

Once our youngsters get more reps and understand how Ben operates and get in sync this won't be a problem.

:Agree Hines has become nothing but a possession receiver who can be shutdown with single coverage. Wallace isn't ready for primetime quite yet. ARE really offers nothing and Sanders should be the #3 right now.

This is complicated by the fact that Ben's first instincts are to look down field and not take the hot route or throw short dink and dunk passes.

[Crash]

He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

And he has. In 2008 when Ben was getting killed it was Ben who went to the staff and insisted on more quick stuff.

People still don't get it. THE PROBLEM for this team right now is the inability to consistently run the football. This team has entirely too many 3rd and longs to deal with.

Our wide outs (Minus Wallace) are too slow, and our OL can't block long enough to complete them and move the chains. Because the OL can't block, Heath Miller has to line up in the backfield as a blocker instead of being used as a weapon on third down as well.

[papillon]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

Geesh, flip, this offense was designed with Ben's input. Every pass play has underneath routes except the Hail Mary. Miller doesn't run deep routes, Spaeth when he's in the game doesn't run deep routes, Hines rarely runs deep routes and the same with Randel El. The only guy consistently running deep routes is Wallace. The receivers are struggling to get separation from defenders.

Ben threw Spaeth open on one play when no one was free by throwing the ball where the linebacker wasn't, but Spaeth wasn't open on the play, it was all Ben forcing him open.

Pappy

[NorthCoast]

What he was saying and there is some truth to it is that without the great defense it's difficult to win championships the way Ben plays. I kind of understand what he's saying, the problem is that Ben has already won two titles and looking for more.

I would love to see Ben drop back and throw in rhythm, but it isn't happening on a regular basis and that's fine, because, watching Steeler football has never been this much fun. I love it.

Pappy

That was exactly my take Pappy. And I agree that Ben's game is not pretty at times, but it is OH SO FUN to watch most games.

[NJ-STEELER]

Young's point was the Ben has to also be an effective rhythm passer. In Young's esimation, Ben must get the ball out on time at least 10 times per game in order to become an effective rhythm passer.

I submit that Ben was very close to the ten passes that came out quickly, but I may need a little help...

1. The streak/fade to Wallace
2. The TD pass to Ward
3. The pass to Miller on the first drive (3rd down I believe)
4. The one where he read blitz and threw it to El but El never turned around.
5. The fake end around pass back to Mendenhall on the first drive
6. Pass to Spaeth when backed up at own end zone
7. A 3rd down toss to Ward in the second half

What am I missing?

passed "10" by halftime, doesn't habe to be complete for him to release it on time

[RuthlessBurgher]

Ben = Two Super Bowl victories as a starting QB

Young = One Super Bowl victory as a starting QB

[RuthlessBurgher]

He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

And he has. In 2008 when Ben was getting killed it was Ben who went to the staff and insisted on more quick stuff.

People still don't get it. THE PROBLEM for this team right now is the inability to consistently run the football. This team has entirely too many 3rd and longs to deal with.

Our wide outs (Minus Wallace) are too slow, and our OL can't block long enough to complete them and move the chains. Because the OL can't block, Heath Miller has to line up in the backfield as a blocker instead of being used as a weapon on third down as well.

Run the ball!

Yoi!

Ignorant yinzers.

[Tomlinator]

Because the OL can't block, Heath Miller has to line up in the backfield as a blocker instead of being used as a weapon on third down as well.

This.

This has been bugging me all season. What has changed so much that Miller has now reverted to being an after thought? Last year he added another dimension to the attack, now he camps out in the backfield looking to pick up a pass rusher.

[SteelCzar76]

Young is telling the truth. 25 percent of the time Roethlisberger is exceptional, 50 percent of the time he's mediocre and the final 25 he's awful.

And the awful usually surfaces against stiffer competition with the exception of perhaps one or two drives within 4 quarters of football.

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism. :lol:

[steelsnis]

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism.

Hmmmm....who was it that threw the ball to Holmes during the final drive of that Super Bowl????

You can do this with every single Super Bowl winning team ever, it doesn't take a THING away from them. Baltimore rode the backs of their defense to a Super Bowl. The Giants wouldn't have won if not for a great catch and a great defense. Hell Jackie Smith dropping the ball in the endzone went a long way in winning Super Bowl XIII but that doesn't take anything away from Bradshaw does it?

[cruzer8]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

Ben has a ring with the OC and helped design the playbook. Let's stop acting like Ben is a freshman in college and the coach who recruited him was fired right before the season started. He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

The real problem is our WR's are old... Hines isn't fast and ARE acts like the football weighs 50 pounds every time he catches it. The guy can't catch and run.

The other problem with out WR's is losing Holmes... he was money at coming back to the football or sitting on routes when Ben was doing his thing in the pocket. These new guys just run... and when it's time to move around they just fade into the night.

Once our youngsters get more reps and understand how Ben operates and get in sync this won't be a problem.

:Agree Hines has become nothing but a possession receiver who can be shutdown with single coverage. Wallace isn't ready for primetime quite yet. ARE really offers nothing and Sanders should be the #3 right now.

This is complicated by the fact that Ben's first instincts are to look down field and not take the hot route or throw short dink and dunk passes.

That's not true. Ben reads the blitz and looks for the hot routes as well as any QB. It's not his fault that the receivers don't recognize it.

[grotonsteel]

Young is telling the truth. 25 percent of the time Roethlisberger is exceptional, 50 percent of the time he's mediocre and the final 25 he's awful.

And the awful usually surfaces against stiffer competition with the exception of perhaps one or two drives within 4 quarters of football.

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism. :lol:

Are you serious???

[grotonsteel]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

Ben has a ring with the OC and helped design the playbook. Let's stop acting like Ben is a freshman in college and the coach who recruited him was fired right before the season started. He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

The real problem is our WR's are old... Hines isn't fast and ARE acts like the football weighs 50 pounds every time he catches it. The guy can't catch and run.

The other problem with out WR's is losing Holmes... he was money at coming back to the football or sitting on routes when Ben was doing his thing in the pocket. These new guys just run... and when it's time to move around they just fade into the night.

Once our youngsters get more reps and understand how Ben operates and get in sync this won't be a problem.

:Agree Hines has become nothing but a possession receiver who can be shutdown with single coverage. Wallace isn't ready for primetime quite yet. ARE really offers nothing and Sanders should be the #3 right now.

This is complicated by the fact that Ben's first instincts are to look down field and not take the hot route or throw short dink and dunk passes.

That's not true. Ben reads the blitz and looks for the hot routes as well as any QB. It's not his fault that the receivers don't recognize it.

:Agree

Neither Hines nor ARE recognize it...

[SteelCzar76]

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism.

Hmmmm....who was it that threw the ball to Holmes during the final drive of that Super Bowl????

You can do this with every single Super Bowl winning team ever, it doesn't take a THING away from them. Baltimore rode the backs of their defense to a Super Bowl. The Giants wouldn't have won if not for a great catch and a great defense. Hell Jackie Smith dropping the ball in the endzone went a long way in winning Super Bowl XIII but that doesn't take anything away from Bradshaw does it?

I understand your perspective Nis. But i have considered Roethlisberger to be a "Less than intellectual" relatively streaky, often turnover prone player since college. And do i feel as though he's considerably overrated as true QB in terms of 'organized' football ? Yes,...i have always said this. So i have a hard time acting as though he's the savior of the franchise and one of the best QB's of all time. (In a backyard somewhere he might be one of the greatest of all times) :lol:

But .... he's the card we got dealt in 04 and so be it.

He's not as bad as Malone or Bubby and certainly not Kordell, but IMO he's also not the quality of pure passer that Bradshaw was.

Again,..i agree with young. And I don't feel as though anyone would even consider him (Roethlisberger) anything special at all as a professional if he had not had the good fortune of playing with the particular groups of players that he took the field with during those two title seasons, and Coach's Cowher, Whiz, Grimm and Lebeau.

And ,..to be clear,..he's not a bum. But i just find it hilarious that some of Nation act as though he's in the same class as QB's like Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Kelly and the like,.... :lol:

[NorthCoast]

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism.

Hmmmm....who was it that threw the ball to Holmes during the final drive of that Super Bowl????

You can do this with every single Super Bowl winning team ever, it doesn't take a THING away from them. Baltimore rode the backs of their defense to a Super Bowl. The Giants wouldn't have won if not for a great catch and a great defense. Hell Jackie Smith dropping the ball in the endzone went a long way in winning Super Bowl XIII but that doesn't take anything away from Bradshaw does it?

I understand your perspective Nis. But i have considered Roethlisberger to be a "Less than intellectual" relatively streaky, often turnover prone player since college. And do i feel as though he's considerably overrated as true QB in terms of 'organized' football ? Yes,...i have always said this. So i have a hard time acting as though he's the savior of the franchise and one of the best QB's of all time. (In a backyard somewhere he might be one of the greatest of all times) :lol:

But .... he's the card we got dealt in 04 and so be it.

He's not as bad as Malone or Bubby and certainly not Kordell, but IMO he's also not the quality of pure passer that Bradshaw was.

Again,..i agree with young. And I don't feel as though anyone would even consider him (Roethlisberger) anything special at all as a professional if he had not had the good fortune of playing with the particular groups of players that he took the field with during those two title seasons, and Coach's Cowher, Whiz, Grimm and Lebeau.

And ,..to be clear,..he's not a bum. But i just find it hilarious that some of Nation act as though he's in the same class as QB's like Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Kelly and the like,.... :lol:

Ben's pure physicality has bailed him more than once....nothing to do with reading a defense and throwing a timing pass.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I don't care how "pure" a passer Ben is.

All I know is in Superbowl XLIII he threw the most accurate pass likely to ever be thrown in a Superbowl, and, oh yes, it happened to be the Superbowl game winning throw.

Hmm, I do believe "The Drive" (that title now belongs to us, not Elway and the Broncos) might have had a nice pass or two in it.

OK, carry on!

[papillon]

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism.

Hmmmm....who was it that threw the ball to Holmes during the final drive of that Super Bowl????

You can do this with every single Super Bowl winning team ever, it doesn't take a THING away from them. Baltimore rode the backs of their defense to a Super Bowl. The Giants wouldn't have won if not for a great catch and a great defense. Hell Jackie Smith dropping the ball in the endzone went a long way in winning Super Bowl XIII but that doesn't take anything away from Bradshaw does it?

I understand your perspective Nis. But i have considered Roethlisberger to be a "Less than intellectual" relatively streaky, often turnover prone player since college. And do i feel as though he's considerably overrated as true QB in terms of 'organized' football ? Yes,...i have always said this. So i have a hard time acting as though he's the savior of the franchise and one of the best QB's of all time. (In a backyard somewhere he might be one of the greatest of all times) :lol:

But .... he's the card we got dealt in 04 and so be it.

He's not as bad as Malone or Bubby and certainly not Kordell, but IMO he's also not the quality of pure passer that Bradshaw was.

Again,..i agree with young. And I don't feel as though anyone would even consider him (Roethlisberger) anything special at all as a professional if he had not had the good fortune of playing with the particular groups of players that he took the field with during those two title seasons, and Coach's Cowher, Whiz, Grimm and Lebeau.

And ,..to be clear,..he's not a bum. But i just find it hilarious that some of Nation act as though he's in the same class as QB's like Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Kelly and the like,.... :lol:

Are you saying that Ben is barely better than Mark Malone, Bubby Brister and Kordell Stewart?

Pappy

[feltdizz]

I understand your perspective Nis. But i have considered Roethlisberger to be a "Less than intellectual" relatively streaky, often turnover prone player since college. And do i feel as though he's considerably overrated as true QB in terms of 'organized' football ? Yes,...i have always said this. So i have a hard time acting as though he's the savior of the franchise and one of the best QB's of all time. (In a backyard somewhere he might be one of the greatest of all times) :lol:

But .... he's the card we got dealt in 04 and so be it.

He's not as bad as Malone or Bubby and certainly not Kordell, but IMO he's also not the quality of pure passer that Bradshaw was.

Again,..i agree with young. And I don't feel as though anyone would even consider him (Roethlisberger) anything special at all as a professional if he had not had the good fortune of playing with the particular groups of players that he took the field with during those two title seasons, and Coach's Cowher, Whiz, Grimm and Lebeau.

And ,..to be clear,..he's not a bum. But i just find it hilarious that some of Nation act as though he's in the same class as QB's like Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Kelly and the like,.... :lol:

oh my.... you have completely lost it. The card we were dealt? Nothing special? :roll:

you keep believing that.... they said the same thing about Bradshaw and it's the reason he went sour. It's one thing to critique his play but to act like we are stuck with some scrub is laughable.

Any QB for the Steelers is fortunate to play with a particular group of players. We watch better QB's nut up in the playoffs all the time... He fits perfectly with our identity.

[Crash]

He's not as bad as Malone or Bubby and certainly not Kordell, but IMO he's also not the quality of pure passer that Bradshaw was.

Yeah, Bradshaw was flat out awesome with his three straight 20+ pick seasons in years 9-11 of his career and his six turnovers in his last two Super Bowls despite having Hall of Fame talent at BOTH WR positions and at running back.

[Crash]

Again,..i agree with young. And I don't feel as though anyone would even consider him (Roethlisberger) anything special at all as a professional if he had not had the good fortune of playing with the particular groups of players that he took the field with during those two title seasons, and Coach's Cowher, Whiz, Grimm and Lebeau.

Yeah, the same group of players who were 6-10 the year before and had missed the playoffs in 4 of the previous 6 seasons before Ben's arrival and had two 10 loss seasons in the previous five.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism.

Hmmmm....who was it that threw the ball to Holmes during the final drive of that Super Bowl????

You can do this with every single Super Bowl winning team ever, it doesn't take a THING away from them. Baltimore rode the backs of their defense to a Super Bowl. The Giants wouldn't have won if not for a great catch and a great defense. Hell Jackie Smith dropping the ball in the endzone went a long way in winning Super Bowl XIII but that doesn't take anything away from Bradshaw does it?

I understand your perspective Nis. But i have considered Roethlisberger to be a "Less than intellectual" relatively streaky, often turnover prone player since college. And do i feel as though he's considerably overrated as true QB in terms of 'organized' football ? Yes,...i have always said this. So i have a hard time acting as though he's the savior of the franchise and one of the best QB's of all time. (In a backyard somewhere he might be one of the greatest of all times) :lol:

But .... he's the card we got dealt in 04 and so be it.

He's not as bad as Malone or Bubby and certainly not Kordell, but IMO he's also not the quality of pure passer that Bradshaw was.

Again,..i agree with young. And I don't feel as though anyone would even consider him (Roethlisberger) anything special at all as a professional if he had not had the good fortune of playing with the particular groups of players that he took the field with during those two title seasons, and Coach's Cowher, Whiz, Grimm and Lebeau.

And ,..to be clear,..he's not a bum. But i just find it hilarious that some of Nation act as though he's in the same class as QB's like Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, Kelly and the like,.... :lol:

I understand where you are coming from. Ben's not evolved into the type of passer that I thought he would become after his early success in the league. I thought the sky was the limit. For whatever reason, I don't believe he reached his potential.

[Crash]

Then you guys are idiots. He's re-writing the Steelers record books (That were all mostly owned by Bradshaw) and won two titles in six years.

What more do you guys want?

[papillon]

Then you guys are idiots. He's re-writing the Steelers record books (That were all mostly owned by Bradshaw) and won two titles in six years.

What more do you guys want?

They want him to be something he will never be and they can't accept that. He will never be a prototypical quarterback that drops back, scans the field and delivers a pass or throws it away if there's nothing there.

Ben is a football player and he's going to play football. If that means holding it until the last second, or scrambling around and moving it to his left hand and then throwing it, running with it, blocking then he'll do whatever he thinks will make the play a success.

There isn't one announcer that recognizes this and many fans don't recognize it either. They all want to make him into a robot like Manning and he'll never do that. On the other hand, I'm old enough to have watch Terry Bradshaw in his heyday and Ben in his and Steeler football has never been this exciting.

Everyone should sit back and enjoy it, because, when Ben is done he's going to be top 10 of all time in almost every category and he may be number one in super Bowl victories, because, he's a winner.

Pappy

[Crash]

He will never be a prototypical quarterback that drops back, scans the field and delivers a pass or throws it away if there's nothing there.

So he'd play like Terry did? Okay then. :)

People need to quit re-writing Bradshaw's career and realize that he and Ben are more alike ON the field than they care to admit.

[Crash]

1:10 in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZr7-j6hYL8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcjQflJyA4

A QB running around via playground style football? Throwing in double coverage?

Was Ben playing then also?

[papillon]

He will never be a prototypical quarterback that drops back, scans the field and delivers a pass or throws it away if there's nothing there.

So he'd play like Terry did? Okay then. :)

People need to quit re-writing Bradshaw's career and realize that he and Ben are more alike ON the field than they care to admit.

Did I say Terry didn't play that way? No! Did I say they were dissimilar? No! What I said was that Ben will never be a robot like Manning and that these are good times to be a Steeler fan, because, it's never been this exciting.

Ben can make plays that Bradshaw wouldn't have made. For the love of all that is good, I'm on your side on this one and you can't even see it, because you're so concerned that everyone is picking on Ben.

Pappy

[Crash]

I wasn't talking about you Pap, I was talking about the people who portray Bradshaw as a classic drop back passer.

When in reality he and Ben are cut from the same cloth on the field.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Does he have two rings ? Sure. But for anyone to actually argue that those two rings where not mostly the products of riding the backs of Coach lebeau and the defense, a big run by Willie Parker, a gadget play from ARE to Hines and Santonio Holmes simply imposing his will for a drive is not only silly,... but sad homerism. :lol:

Just out of curiosity, in your world how were the participants in the SB decided? By lottery?

Are you saying that Ben made no contributions throughout the entire seasons that they won, or just played lousy in the SBs?

Aside from that, in SB 43 Ben started off the game well, cooled off in the middle and ended on fire. He completed 70% of his passes at 8.5 YPA.

He has a career 92.0 QB rating and that includes a 75.4 in the season following a near death experience and an appendectomy a week before the season started.

To put that into perspective, the great Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have 93.5 and 95.2 ratings respectively. One has three rings, one has multiple MVP awards. Both are considered to be all time top 10 QBs. Manning's playoff rating falls 87.6 to go with his 9-9 playoff record.

Ben's playoff rating is 87.2, but in the two seasons we won the trophy his ratings were 101.7 and 91.6. Hardly sounds like a passenger to me.

As for some of the other top QBs: Brees 91.9 career rating, Rivers 96.9, Romo 95.5, Palmer 87.5, Favre 86.3, Rodgers 95.8, Eli 80.4, Cutler 84.1, Sanchez 69.7 (the next Ben as he began last season), Flacco 85.8, Ryan 85.7.

Not too shabby when you compare him to the best, and he brings attributes that few of his peers can match. Let's see half of these guys playing behind a line that has Sean Mahan at Center.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Then you guys are idiots. He's re-writing the Steelers record books (That were all mostly owned by Bradshaw) and won two titles in six years.

What more do you guys want?

They want him to be something he will never be and they can't accept that. He will never be a prototypical quarterback that drops back, scans the field and delivers a pass or throws it away if there's nothing there.

Ben is a football player and he's going to play football. If that means holding it until the last second, or scrambling around and moving it to his left hand and then throwing it, running with it, blocking then he'll do whatever he thinks will make the play a success.

There isn't one announcer that recognizes this and many fans don't recognize it either. They all want to make him into a robot like Manning and he'll never do that. On the other hand, I'm old enough to have watch Terry Bradshaw in his heyday and Ben in his and Steeler football has never been this exciting.

Everyone should sit back and enjoy it, because, when Ben is done he's going to be top 10 of all time in almost every category and he may be number one in super Bowl victories, because, he's a winner.

Pappy

I've realized that Ben may never be the type of QB many fans expected after his early success. When the offense doesn't perform as expected or inconsistently, Ben's style has a lot to do with that. Does not mean Ben is a bad player.

[Scarletfire1970]

Ben can not possibly succeed being the type of QB some of you want him to be in this offense. The line isn't good enough, the WR's aren't good enough and our running game isn't good enough. Until those areas improve, it is not really fair to expect him to be the pure pocket passer, get the ball out quick QB you seem to want him to be.

[Crash]

When the offense doesn't perform as expected or inconsistently, Ben's style has a lot to do with that.

You're nuts. You need to watch the games.

[feltdizz]

I wasn't talking about you Pap, I was talking about the people who portray Bradshaw as a classic drop back passer.

When in reality he and Ben are cut from the same cloth on the field.

I agree... but I think you kind of play into their argument when you downplay Bradshaw or point out his lack of Manning/Brady type stats or polished play.

I think a ton of fans who give everyone but Ben credit will never see how good Ben is.
Pappy says it best... Ben isn't a robot passer and it makes the game fun/frustrating/exciting...

I like winning more than fantasy stats and media moose knuckle slobbering.

[Crash]

I only downplay Bradshaw when I hold him to the same standards that Ben haters hold Ben to. MY personal opinion is they are basically the same QB, but Terry has a slightly stronger arm and a little more foot speed.

People who look at Ben's stats, and claim we are a "running team"? Don't watch this team play, they can't.

[ikestops85]

I only downplay Bradshaw when I hold him to the same standards that Ben haters hold Ben to. MY personal opinion is they are basically the same QB, but Terry has a slightly stronger arm and a little more foot speed.

People who look at Ben's stats, and claim we are a "running team"? Don't watch this team play, they can't.

Then I am going to disagree with you. Ben is much better at that type of football than Terry has ever been. Terry took years to develop into the exciting QB that Ben has been almost from the start.

Many here have glossed over the memory of the early Bradshaw years. Here is his QB rating and TD/INT stats for his first 8 years

QB---TD/Int
30.4 6/24
59.7 13/22
64.1 12/12
54.5 10/15
55.2 7/8
88.0 18/9
65.4 10/9
71.4 17/19

So as you can see he not only was bad most of those years. He was horrible. Steeler fans were calling for his head game after game. They cheered when he was INJURED!!! Now don't get me wrong -- Terry turned it around and became the focal point of our offense and was terrific the last half of his career but I don't recall anyone calling for Ben's head because of bad play like they did with Bradshaw.

If Ben keeps playing the way he has there is no question he will go down as the best QB in Steeler history. Even if he doesn't win another SB.

[Crash]

The passing rules were different. Terry really didn't change as a QB, the rules and the talent around him did.

People in Pittsburgh were calling for Batch on talk shows in 2006 after Be played two games, and some were calling for Leftwich after Ben's rough patch in 2008.

Just the way the people are there. That will never change.

[ikestops85]

The passing rules were different. Terry really didn't change as a QB, the rules and the talent around him did.

People in Pittsburgh were calling for Batch on talk shows in 2006 after Be played two games, and some were calling for Leftwich after Ben's rough patch in 2008.

Just the way the people are there. That will never change.

I agree the passing rules were different and that hindered what Terry could do but a few people calling for Batch or Leftwich in no way comes close to the clamor for Bradshaw to be replaced. The stadium had many signs calling for Hanratty. Jefferson Street Joe even took Bradshaw's job away. How many times has Ben been benched for poor play? None that I can recall. It happened to Bradshaw many times.

My point is not that Terry was bad. My point is that time will dull the memory and in the future nobody will remember Ben's faults but will think of him as a great QB. The same as they do with Bart Starr and Terry Bradshaw now.

... and just to stay on topic but when Young starts out a sentence with "Ben has probably proven me wrong but I think ... " leads me to believe they ought to look a lot closer at the effects of a concussion cause Stevie boy took one too many hits to the head.

[Shawn]

And I quote:

"You can't win championships with the way Ben plays quarterback"

He qualified that statement by saying Ben actually proves me wrong, but you can't win championships the way Ben plays QB.

He was just saying Ben has some growing to do.

And I agree to a degree. If Ben had an OC that didn't design plays where the WR routes take forever to develop and he had time in the pocket to wait.

Ben has a ring with the OC and helped design the playbook. Let's stop acting like Ben is a freshman in college and the coach who recruited him was fired right before the season started. He has his hand in everything and if he wanted shorter routes he would put them in the playbook.

The real problem is our WR's are old... Hines isn't fast and ARE acts like the football weighs 50 pounds every time he catches it. The guy can't catch and run.

The other problem with out WR's is losing Holmes... he was money at coming back to the football or sitting on routes when Ben was doing his thing in the pocket. These new guys just run... and when it's time to move around they just fade into the night.

Once our youngsters get more reps and understand how Ben operates and get in sync this won't be a problem.


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