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View Full Version : ESPN hotly debating new hitting rules



Djfan
10-19-2010, 12:09 AM
Trent Dilfer, Matt Millen and the other guy, are lined up against Steve Young about the new rulings being good or bad.

Millen is pissed, and Dilfer is on his side.

I hope Goodell and his lovers are listening. They can't do this on NFLN because who the bosses really are, but this conversation needs to happen.

Good follow up to a very bad MNF game.

hawaiiansteel
10-19-2010, 12:30 AM
Good follow up to a very bad MNF game.



what ESPN should also be debating is how Jacksonville got to play in a MNF game and ensuring that doesn't happen again.

AngryAsian
10-19-2010, 12:30 AM
I love Trent making the notation that its a bad idea for this rule change because of 5 incidents over an NFL weekend. He also noted that out of the 5 only one was a legit dirty hit... and that one was the Merryweather hit on Heap. This is a QB saying this.

Discipline of Steel
10-19-2010, 12:53 AM
I love Trent making the notation that its a bad idea for this rule change because of 5 incidents over an NFL weekend. He also noted that out of the 5 only one was a legit dirty hit... and that one was the Merryweather hit on Heap. This is a QB saying this.

Hes right, seems very knee-jerk. They are just making rules now for something that has occurred in NFL games for at least 80 years. Just absolutely ridiculous...i hate it. I will blame Fidel Goodell for ruining the NFL.

Crash
10-19-2010, 12:59 AM
You mean Roger Goodell is making another knee-jerk decision? It can't be!

brothervad
10-19-2010, 01:07 AM
Crash...brace yourself...this is one time that you and I agree.

I will say this is mostly a knee-jerk reaction because Roger wants his 18 games. He knows he can't get his 18 games with stuff like this.

Also he wants the NFL to be an Arena league with 65-45 scores.

Talk about a subjective rule...

NFL is becoming so vanilla it sucks now for purists...cater to the Least Common Denominator...the casual fan.

:(

brothervad

stlrz d
10-19-2010, 07:42 AM
Link w/video of debate.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/stor ... NHeadlines (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5701512&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)

Jigawatts
10-19-2010, 07:50 AM
Just another step to 18 games of watered down football. Thanks Rog. :roll:

Ghost
10-19-2010, 08:00 AM
RIP NFL: 1922 - 2010

http://mypetmyfriend.com/headstone2.jpg

ramblinjim
10-19-2010, 08:04 AM
Just another step to 18 games of watered down football. Thanks Rog. :roll:

:Agree

I understand not wanting players to get killed out there and being careful of the concussions. Sometimes when I watch Dilfer, Young and Aikman, well sometimes every once in awhile you can tell those guys took some pretty brutal shots to the head. And I don't mean that to be funny, sometimes these guys (who I believe are smart guys) will just say something and you're like "huh"?

I think the NFL needs to do their very very best at developing the very best equipment and the very best treatment for these men. And maybe you legislate a number of concussions and your out for the season rule or a number of concussions and your done in the league type of scenario. The NFL also needs to do a better job of taking care of the vets that deal with debilitating injuries later on in life. Watching video of Earl Campbell walking around is heart breaking and the league's insurance and retirement plans weren't very good back then and I know it's a concern of the players union today.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-19-2010, 08:23 AM
What ever happened to that helmet Don Bebee wore? Make them all that way...

anyway, obviously the NFL has been 'discussing' this topic for years and trying to find poster children for thier cause...Harrison is it.....

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... s%3Disch:1 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5525/gladiatorvi0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fantasysharks.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D161515&usg=__lVM6TpehODOLGrf9LicUoMpYfjw=&h=604&w=500&sz=234&hl=en&start=7&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=gm1ztYHkS5M6rM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddon%2Bbeebe%2Bhelmet%26hl%3Den%26sa%3 DN%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1)

papillon
10-19-2010, 08:25 AM
Personally, after watching these plays over and over and over again I believe there shouldn't be any fines or suspensions. However, in both instances Silverback could have delivered similarly devastating blows using text book tackling techniques. In both instances he could have wrapped up the receiver and driven backwards without looking like he was head hunting.

The problem the NFL is going to have with these hits is that Silverback appeared to be delivering blows by launching himself like missile at the player. Had he wrapped up and delivered these blows the same affect would have occurred and they wouldn't even be talking about it.

Tackling in the NFL is atrocious league wide. It will be a shame that these hits are going to cause a seismic change in the way defenders play. I simply wonder if the NFL has made it so easy for the passing game to be successful (legalizing some forms of holding, no contact after 5 yards, be careful how you hit the quarterback, etc) that the number of plays where these opportunities to decleat a player has increased to the point that you are going to get these types of hits?

The sheer number of pass plays almost guarantees that a WR will be exposed during a game to a big hit and defenders are going to take them, because it's really their only recourse to the passing game. The NFL has set up this scenario in my mind by making the passing game too easy.

Pappy

Tomlinator
10-19-2010, 08:50 AM
I agree with those calling this a knee jerk reaction. This will be a muddled mess.

I'm paraphrasing here from the video, but here is my summary:

Young: "...any legel or illegal hit that makes you cringe is a devestating hit."
Millen: "Thats stupid."

Millen sums it up nicely. There is no way to actually provide a good interpretation of a devestating hit and we'll never see the defintion because the NFL rulebook is some kind of secret manifesto (I can't find a copy of the damn thing). I doubt anyone playing in the NFL goes for intentional head shots, but defenders have been taught to go hard to the ball and make a play. There are just some things that will happen at full game speed that can't be avoided and are just natural hazards of the game. Who wants to see someone kicked out of a game because the crowd went "OOOOHHHH!!"

Pushing this line of thought a bit, will we see a defenseless defender rule? Receiver goes up to catch a ball, defender stands back or pulls up to avoid touching him, then while coming down the receiver naturally ducks his head to brace for impact and hits the DB on the helmet. If one or both goes down, is it devestating or just lame defense?

proudpittsburgher
10-19-2010, 08:56 AM
What's funny is that anyone can make Matt Millen look smart. And Steve Young is just the man to do it. :) I also found it funny that Greeny, on Mike and Mike, basically took credit this morning for starting the firestorm that is this story because they talked about it on their show in Monday morning. What a tool.

feltdizz
10-19-2010, 09:07 AM
how does a 16 game season protect players from these hits in week 6?

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-19-2010, 10:04 AM
There is only one guy supporting this move - Steve Young.

And even he is blaming the QBs for hanging the receivers out to dry, but through some twisted logic figures that it is up to the defender to let up.

It is like I swing a baseball bat at your head and then tell you that you are to blame because you didn't duck.

The next rule instituted after this one? Fair catch rule on all receptions. :shock:

Ghost
10-19-2010, 10:08 AM
The worst part for me - the same officials who are completely incompetent with huge discrepancies on the way the call pass interference, a penalty in existance forever, will now be in charge of trying to assess a penalty on situation that will require an arbitrary guess. And be expected to call it on a few days notice. The absuridty of this is mind boggling.

I would not be upset in the least if the defensive players across the league staged a walk out and refused to take the field until this rule is rescinded and an actual plan can be put in place in the offseason. F@ck Goodell.

Ghost
10-19-2010, 10:18 AM
how does a 16 game season protect players from these hits in week 6?

It doesn't but that's not the point. You can't claim to have the best interests of the players in mind and then institute 2 more games while saying you don't see that as increasing the risk of injury.

Games are averaging 68 pass plays per game - most ever. That's 2176 additional plays over the last 2 games (not including the running plays) with the potential for a "devasating" hit to occur. It's pure hypocrisy to say that doesn't increase the chance for injury.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-19-2010, 10:19 AM
The worst part for me - the same officials who are completely incompetent with huge discrepancies on the way the call pass interference, a penalty in existance forever, will now be in charge of trying to assess a penalty on situation that will require an arbitrary guess. And be expected to call it on a few days notice. The absuridty of this is mind boggling.

I would not be upset in the least if the defensive players across the league staged a walk out and refused to take the field until this rule is rescinded and an actual plan can be put in place in the offseason. F@ck Goodell.

I can just see the first referee conference......

Ref: "What do you guys think? Was that hit devastating?"

Linesman: "Well, it was a hard hit, but I don't know about devastating"

Back judge: "Not just hard, real, real hard....but not sure about devastating"

Linesman: "My aunt lives in a trailer park and her home was wiped out by tornado - now that was devastating!"

Umpire: "I didn't see anything, I'm having a hard enough time trying to see a play without holding."

Ref: "Was that hit as devastating as that tornado?"

Linesman: "Hard to say since one was a hit and one was a gust of wind."

Ref: "I have a headache."

cruzer8
10-19-2010, 10:34 AM
There is only one guy supporting this move - Steve Young.

And even he is blaming the QBs for hanging the receivers out to dry, but through some twisted logic figures that it is up to the defender to let up.

It is like I swing a baseball bat at your head and then tell you that you are to blame because you didn't duck.

The next rule instituted after this one? Fair catch rule on all receptions. :shock:

I don't think Young is supporting it. I think he is just explaining it. He even says, "You can't call it football. Call it 'Rugby with helmets' because it isn't football."

Shawn
10-19-2010, 10:36 AM
Just another step to 18 games of watered down football. Thanks Rog. :roll:

:Agree

I understand not wanting players to get killed out there and being careful of the concussions. Sometimes when I watch Dilfer, Young and Aikman, well sometimes every once in awhile you can tell those guys took some pretty brutal shots to the head. And I don't mean that to be funny, sometimes these guys (who I believe are smart guys) will just say something and you're like "huh"?

I think the NFL needs to do their very very best at developing the very best equipment and the very best treatment for these men. And maybe you legislate a number of concussions and your out for the season rule or a number of concussions and your done in the league type of scenario. The NFL also needs to do a better job of taking care of the vets that deal with debilitating injuries later on in life. Watching video of Earl Campbell walking around is heart breaking and the league's insurance and retirement plans weren't very good back then and I know it's a concern of the players union today.


I have to agree with you Jim. I'm on the middle road with this. First, helmet to helmet is clearly wrong. But, if a player drops or the helmet glances off another body part then what are you going to do? I believe a player should be suspended for a game when he lowers his head and places his helmet into the helmet of another player...period. There is no excuse for it.

With that said, devestating hit? Come on. This is a physical game, it is not football without the physicality. This will be a travisty of proper legislation if this is implemented.

AngryAsian
10-19-2010, 10:58 AM
I wish I was a fly on the wall in the living room of Jack Lambert on Sunday game days. He must be appalled... he probably doesn't watch it anymore because of the watered down affect that the new rules have on the game.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
10-19-2010, 12:22 PM
Personally, after watching these plays over and over and over again I believe there shouldn't be any fines or suspensions. However, in both instances Silverback could have delivered similarly devastating blows using text book tackling techniques. In both instances he could have wrapped up the receiver and driven backwards without looking like he was head hunting.

The problem the NFL is going to have with these hits is that Silverback appeared to be delivering blows by launching himself like missile at the player. Had he wrapped up and delivered these blows the same affect would have occurred and they wouldn't even be talking about it.

Tackling in the NFL is atrocious league wide. It will be a shame that these hits are going to cause a seismic change in the way defenders play. I simply wonder if the NFL has made it so easy for the passing game to be successful (legalizing some forms of holding, no contact after 5 yards, be careful how you hit the quarterback, etc) that the number of plays where these opportunities to decleat a player has increased to the point that you are going to get these types of hits?

The sheer number of pass plays almost guarantees that a WR will be exposed during a game to a big hit and defenders are going to take them, because it's really their only recourse to the passing game. The NFL has set up this scenario in my mind by making the passing game too easy.

Pappy


The NFL needs a "Jack Ham how to tackle like a pro" seminar or book.

papillon
10-19-2010, 12:24 PM
Personally, after watching these plays over and over and over again I believe there shouldn't be any fines or suspensions. However, in both instances Silverback could have delivered similarly devastating blows using text book tackling techniques. In both instances he could have wrapped up the receiver and driven backwards without looking like he was head hunting.

The problem the NFL is going to have with these hits is that Silverback appeared to be delivering blows by launching himself like missile at the player. Had he wrapped up and delivered these blows the same affect would have occurred and they wouldn't even be talking about it.

Tackling in the NFL is atrocious league wide. It will be a shame that these hits are going to cause a seismic change in the way defenders play. I simply wonder if the NFL has made it so easy for the passing game to be successful (legalizing some forms of holding, no contact after 5 yards, be careful how you hit the quarterback, etc) that the number of plays where these opportunities to decleat a player has increased to the point that you are going to get these types of hits?

The sheer number of pass plays almost guarantees that a WR will be exposed during a game to a big hit and defenders are going to take them, because it's really their only recourse to the passing game. The NFL has set up this scenario in my mind by making the passing game too easy.

Pappy


The NFL needs a "Jack Ham how to tackle like a pro" seminar or book.

Quoted for truth! Here's to Jack Ham :Bow

Pappy

NorthCoast
10-19-2010, 12:52 PM
No one mentioned it yet, but get ready for a bunch of 'defenseless' WRs taking an intentional collapse after a hard hit in order to draw the suspension. I am not saying fake an injury, but the WR could make it look very convincing if he just crumples to the ground after impact.

Mister Pittsburgh
10-19-2010, 12:56 PM
I think the NFL is just adding all these referee's discression calls so it is easier to fix the games. It is commonly said that the refs could call a penalty on every single play....they are just making it easier for them to justify it and control the scores.

cruzer8
10-19-2010, 01:06 PM
I think the NFL is just adding all these referee's discression calls so it is easier to fix the games. It is commonly said that the refs could call a penalty on every single play....they are just making it easier for them to justify it and control the scores.

Yes that's exactly what it is.

:roll:

Mister Pittsburgh
10-19-2010, 01:22 PM
I think the NFL is just adding all these referee's discression calls so it is easier to fix the games. It is commonly said that the refs could call a penalty on every single play....they are just making it easier for them to justify it and control the scores.

Yes that's exactly what it is.

:roll:

I am sure you would know if it was....

:moon

birtikidis
10-19-2010, 02:27 PM
I wish I was a fly on the wall in the living room of Jack Lambert on Sunday game days. He must be appalled... he probably doesn't watch it anymore because of the watered down affect that the new rules have on the game.
Jack Lambert hates people... how do you think he feels about flies?

AngryAsian
10-20-2010, 07:51 AM
I wish I was a fly on the wall in the living room of Jack Lambert on Sunday game days. He must be appalled... he probably doesn't watch it anymore because of the watered down affect that the new rules have on the game.
Jack Lambert hates people... how do you think he feels about flies?


LOL.... true. Here's more debates regarding the new ruling, only this one was on NFLN. Maybe I'm just a homer, but I have looked at the Cribbs and Masso hits by Deebo, and I just don't see the "violent intent" that others are seeing. I see the viciousness of the hits, but that's just hard-hitting Steeler defensive football. I guess we are going to be in the minority on this one. The same fans that say that Deebo is a dirty player, are the same ones that say the same about Hines... but yet all would love to have either on their team.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-t ... ule=HP_cp2 (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81b76571/Are-illegal-hits-handled-correctly?module=HP_cp2)

BURGH86STEEL
10-20-2010, 09:03 AM
The only way the direction of the league will change is if fans decide to hit the league where it hurts. I don't think that is going to happen.

The subjective views from ref's perspectives could have a huge impact on some games.