Massaquoi went low and dropped his head...

[Dee Dub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJvKt1vF4GM

This is not a deliberate helemet to helmet hit by James Harrison. And he did not leave his feet and launch himself at Massaqoui. He uses more of his arms than his head. Any helmet contact was incidental. Harrison was left with very little room to do anything after Massaquoi went low. And there is no way this is defenseless. Massaquoi is facing Harrison and sees him enough to slouch down in an attempt to get under the on-coming hit.

Watch this video of the play yourself.

[steelblood]

I agree. See this thread...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14150 (http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14150)

[papillon]

It's so hard to tell because of the speed of the game. Even in slow motion it was difficult to tell what happened. Massaquoi definitely was dropping his head and body in an attempt to protect himself.

All I can say is wow and I know why I watch football rather than want to play.

Pappy

[StarSpangledSteeler]

I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

[stlrz d]

I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

[StarSpangledSteeler]

I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

We'll see...

[proudpittsburgher]

I think the only thing that's going to get James Harrison in trouble here is that he left his feet to make the play. That's a no no in the nFL these days. Either way, it isn't nearly as bad as the New England Patriots* hit, yet Harrison is who media types seem to be focusing on, which is unfortunate.

[stlrz d]

I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

We'll see...

We won't "see" $hit. The league doing something to Harrison doesn't prove a god damn thing. It most certainly doesn't prove you right. Harrison didn't try to go high on the WR.

proudpittsburgher - If you watch the video you will see Harrison does not leave his feet until *after* he makes contact, not before. Leaving your feet before contact is "launching" and that is what is illegal.

[proudpittsburgher]

[quote=StarSpangledSteeler]I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

We'll see...[/quote:1bnwmptr]


proudpittsburgher - If you watch the video you will see Harrison does not leave his feet until *after* he makes contact, not before. Leaving your feet before contact is "launching" and that is what is illegal.


OK, that makes sense then. I just saw him leave the ground and I assumed that was what they deem to be "launching". Either way, if they suspend him, then Jim Leonard and the Patriots safety need to go as well. Anything less than that and Goodell has some splainin to do.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

[quote=StarSpangledSteeler]I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

We'll see...

We won't "see" $hit. The league doing something to Harrison doesn't prove a god damn thing. It most certainly doesn't prove you right. Harrison didn't try to go high on the WR.

proudpittsburgher - If you watch the video you will see Harrison does not leave his feet until *after* he makes contact, not before. Leaving your feet before contact is "launching" and that is what is illegal.[/quote:1ak654rl]

Which is exactly what Merriweather did to Heap and that was IMO the only flagrant infraction of any of these hits. Even Young admits that his was the only bad hit.

[Shawn]

First, I don't see a reason for us to get worked up and get upset with each other over this.

Second, I have MUCH less of an issue with this hit than I do on the one on Cribbs. IMO, he clearly drops to "protect" himself when he sees Harrison. But, there is no doubt Harrison was going for a hard hit. The last time I checked this is still football. He was going for a hard hit and he was aiming for the chest area. Mass ducks bringing his head into the hitting plane. I wouldn't even fine this hit.

Obviously, the football world disagrees with me but the hit on Cribbs looks fineable to me. Cribbs was wrapped up, Harrison takes two steps (head up) then lowers his head and delivers a blow with the top of his helmet. No one can convince me that hitting with the top of the helmet is proper tackling form.

[anger 82&95]

I’ve watched the footage a bazillion times, and while it’s a brutal hit it doesn’t seem premeditated or malicious. In fact, how else was Harrison supposed to make the tackle? Perhaps by laying down and grabbing for shoestrings…

[phillyesq]

[quote="stlrz d":2qzamyg2][quote=StarSpangledSteeler]I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

We'll see...

We won't "see" $hit. The league doing something to Harrison doesn't prove a god damn thing. It most certainly doesn't prove you right. Harrison didn't try to go high on the WR.

proudpittsburgher - If you watch the video you will see Harrison does not leave his feet until *after* he makes contact, not before. Leaving your feet before contact is "launching" and that is what is illegal.[/quote:2qzamyg2]

Which is exactly what Merriweather did to Heap and that was IMO the only flagrant infraction of any of these hits. Even Young admits that his was the only bad hit.[/quote:2qzamyg2]

Agree completely. A defender is supposed to try to separate a receiver from the ball. WTF are they supposed to do? I remember there used to be more discussion of how QBs need to avoid leading their guys into big hits. If you don't want MM to get crushed by Harrison, don't lead him. Or throw him the ball low. The defensive player is all but obligated to hit a WR coming across the middle or into his zone.

Merriweather took a really cheap shot. He clearly launched himself right at Heap's head. As for the other hits, I cannot physically see how you can tackle somebody without your helmet contacting that player at some point in the process.

[cruzer8]

First, I don't see a reason for us to get worked up and get upset with each other over this.

Second, I have MUCH less of an issue with this hit than I do on the one on Cribbs. IMO, he clearly drops to "protect" himself when he sees Harrison. But, there is no doubt Harrison was going for a hard hit. The last time I checked this is still football. He was going for a hard hit and he was aiming for the chest area. Mass ducks bringing his head into the hitting plane. I wouldn't even fine this hit.

Obviously, the football world disagrees with me but the hit on Cribbs looks fineable to me. Cribbs was wrapped up, Harrison takes two steps (head up) then lowers his head and delivers a blow with the top of his helmet. No one can convince me that hitting with the top of the helmet is proper tackling form.

Harrison's head goes in front of Cribbs' if Cribbs doesn't duck a split second before the hit. No helmet to helmet. Not Harrison's fault that Cribbs ducks a split second before impact.

And why are we having this discussion? The NFL already said this hit was legal under current rules.

[phillyesq]

First, I don't see a reason for us to get worked up and get upset with each other over this.

Second, I have MUCH less of an issue with this hit than I do on the one on Cribbs. IMO, he clearly drops to "protect" himself when he sees Harrison. But, there is no doubt Harrison was going for a hard hit. The last time I checked this is still football. He was going for a hard hit and he was aiming for the chest area. Mass ducks bringing his head into the hitting plane. I wouldn't even fine this hit.

Obviously, the football world disagrees with me but the hit on Cribbs looks fineable to me. Cribbs was wrapped up, Harrison takes two steps (head up) then lowers his head and delivers a blow with the top of his helmet. No one can convince me that hitting with the top of the helmet is proper tackling form.

Harrison's head goes in front of Cribbs' if Cribbs doesn't duck a split second before the hit. No helmet to helmet. Not Harrison's fault that Cribbs ducks a split second before impact.

And why are we having this discussion? The NFL already said this hit was legal under current rules.

Tim Hasselback just went out of his way to say that it was absolutely a legal hit.

[anger 82&95]

The new regulations will benefit teams that thrive on the dink pass… The Patriots will now benefit from having a quarterback AND receivers that are illegal to tackle.

[StarSpangledSteeler]

[quote=StarSpangledSteeler]I disagree slightly. I'm not saying Massaquoi didn't drop his head at all. He tucked it a little bit. But it wasn't like he totally ducked it down low. Harrison was aiming pretty high to begin with. If Harrison was aiming for the torso it's a completely different discussion. Also, I think that the fact that Massaquoi was right on the border of being defenseless makes it worse. Harrison was definitely going for the high knockout and the league will likely see it the same way.

Again, you are wrong.

We'll see...

We won't "see" $hit. The league doing something to Harrison doesn't prove a god damn thing. It most certainly doesn't prove you right. Harrison didn't try to go high on the WR.

proudpittsburgher - If you watch the video you will see Harrison does not leave his feet until *after* he makes contact, not before. Leaving your feet before contact is "launching" and that is what is illegal.[/quote:205iqslb]

Swearing is usually a sign that you're emotional and not thinking clearly (which I believe is the case here). This is a debate forum. Try to debate with logic and reason next time. It's okay to get upset when you're wrong but at least see the facts. The league is the only opinion that matters. It's like when you rant and rave that Ben was innocent. It doesn't matter what you think. The fact is the league found him guilty and our team was without him 4 games. Your opinion didn't bring him back. Hines Ward had a rule named after him for him for hits you call "legal". The league calls them "illegal". Now you can be upset with the league. That's fine. But the league is the judge, jury, and executioner.

[cruzer8]

Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

[StarSpangledSteeler]

Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

My point is... What makes YOU right? Or Stlrz? You are not an authority on the matter. You watch a video and express your opinion. That's fine. But you can't claim any fact or reason that makes you any more right than me. It's a difference of opinion. The league's opinion will probably support mine. But we'll see...

[grotonsteel]

The new regulations will benefit teams that thrive on the dink pass… The Patriots will now benefit from having a quarterback AND receivers that are illegal to tackle.

Cheatroits sucks...

I somehow believe Goodell just wants Cheatroits to win because it seems owner like Kraft have threatened Goodell regarding CBA. Moneywise they are one of the most powerful franchise in NFL.

Also CBS has their HQ in their building.

Time to move on Goodell...Tom Brady is not the golden boy anymore...

BTW Tom Brady is getting thrashed by Bieber.....


"“Sacked like a sacker. Call up Mr. Brady. Tell him to leave his hair to the guy who sings 'Baby."

:lol:

[grotonsteel]

The fact is the league found him guilty

Hmm...Guilty of what???

[eniparadoxgma]

I think we're missing the big picture here...which of course is that if Deebo hadn't knocked Mass out he might have got a catch or two and I would've won my FF matchup. :tt2

[ramblinjim]

I think we're missing the big picture here...which of course is that if Deebo hadn't knocked Mass out he might have got a catch or two and I would've won my FF matchup. :tt2


naturally, what's important! :D

[feltdizz]

Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

My point is... What makes YOU right? Or Stlrz? You are not an authority on the matter. You watch a video and express your opinion. That's fine. But you can't claim any fact or reason that makes you any more right than me. It's a difference of opinion. The league's opinion will probably support mine. But we'll see...

:D

[stlrz d]

Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

My point is... What makes YOU right? Or Stlrz? You are not an authority on the matter. You watch a video and express your opinion. That's fine. But you can't claim any fact or reason that makes you any more right than me. It's a difference of opinion. The league's opinion will probably support mine. But we'll see...

What makes us right is it's clear by watching that Harrison wasn't trying to hit the WR high. That's what makes us right. It's not opinion when it is on display as plain as day. You are the one making insinuations based on outcome instead of actual evidence before the fact.

1) Harrison was in perfect position to make a tackle.

2) Harrison is facing MM squarely and in a crouched position.

3) Harrison is bringing his arms up to make contact but has not left his feet.

4) MM sees Harrison as he is preparing to hit and ducks.

5) As a result of MM ducking, Harrison (who cannot stop his momentum in less than a fraction of a second) makes contact with MM's head.

6) Harrison leaves his feet *after* making contact as a natural reaction to avoid falling over backwards.

The NFL is trying to legislate something subjective that takes place in the blink of an eye. That is going to lead to much more bad then good.

If you like the direction the NFL is going then why don't you just accelerate the process by flipping over to arena football? Because that's what Goodell is trying to do to the NFL. His belief is that people want high scoring so that's what he's giving them. He doesn't give a fsck about defense or players on the defensive side of the ball. He's all about offense.

This isn't the NBA, this is football. The NBA sucks. The NFL does not...yet.

And btw, your assertion all along was that Harrison intentionally tried to hit MM high and that if he was fined it would prove that you were right. That simply is not true. They fined him because of all the media attention and because of all the crying pu$$ies screaming about hard hits in *gasp* football.

The only thing this fine proves is that Goodell is hell bent on crafting this league into something the Madden generation may want to see, but not something *I* want to see, and based on what I've seen and heard so far, it's not something NFL fans who have actually been around for more than a minute want to see either. Goodell sucks. So does anyone who agrees with what he is doing. If that includes you then so be it...you suck too.

[Dee Dub]

Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

My point is... What makes YOU right? Or Stlrz? You are not an authority on the matter. You watch a video and express your opinion. That's fine. But you can't claim any fact or reason that makes you any more right than me. It's a difference of opinion. The league's opinion will probably support mine. But we'll see...

What makes us right is it's clear by watching that Harrison wasn't trying to hit the WR high. That's what makes us right. It's not opinion when it is on display as plain as day. You are the one making insinuations based on outcome instead of actual evidence before the fact.

1) Harrison was in perfect position to make a tackle.

2) Harrison is facing MM squarely and in a crouched position.

3) Harrison is bringing his arms up to make contact but has not left his feet.

4) MM sees Harrison as he is preparing to hit and ducks.

5) As a result of MM ducking, Harrison (who cannot stop his momentum in less than a fraction of a second) makes contact with MM's head.

6) Harrison leaves his feet *after* making contact as a natural reaction to avoid falling over backwards.

The NFL is trying to legislate something subjective that takes place in the blink of an eye. That is going to lead to much more bad then good.

If you like the direction the NFL is going then why don't you just accelerate the process by flipping over to arena football? Because that's what Goodell is trying to do to the NFL. His belief is that people want high scoring so that's what he's giving them. He doesn't give a fsck about defense or players on the defensive side of the ball. He's all about offense.

This isn't the NBA, this is football. The NBA sucks. The NFL does not...yet.

And btw, your assertion all along was that Harrison intentionally tried to hit MM high and that if he was fined it would prove that you were right. That simply is not true. They fined him because of all the media attention and because of all the crying pu$$ies screaming about hard hits in *gasp* football.

The only thing this fine proves is that Goodell is hell bent on crafting this league into something the Madden generation may want to see, but not something *I* want to see, and based on what I've seen and heard so far, it's not something NFL fans who have actually been around for more than a minute want to see either. Goodell sucks. So does anyone who agrees with what he is doing. If that includes you then so be it...you suck too.

Bravo!! This is about as money as money gets. Thanks for breakin this down stlrz d.

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

[stlrz d]

Dee Dub - It just really pisses me off to see what Goodell is doing to the league and I simply can't fathom that anyone out there is in agreement with him.

[StarSpangledSteeler]

Dee Dub - It just really pisses me off to see what Goodell is doing to the league and I simply can't fathom that anyone out there is in agreement with him.

Send him a letter. I'm sure he'll see your logic and change his mind. While you're at it, swear at him, because that helps to make your points more valid.

If you think there was nothing wrong with Harrison's hit on MM, you're looking through steeler colored glasses. I appreciate that you're a devoted fan. I am too. But you have to be a little more unbiased to correctly assess situations like these. It's not that bad of a punishment though. They fine him 75 K and he plays next week. Hopefully next time he'll aim lower.

[Sugar]

Dee Dub - It just really pisses me off to see what Goodell is doing to the league and I simply can't fathom that anyone out there is in agreement with him.

Send him a letter. I'm sure he'll see your logic and change his mind. While you're at it, swear at him, because that helps to make your points more valid.

If you think there was nothing wrong with Harrison's hit on MM, you're looking through steeler colored glasses. I appreciate that you're a devoted fan. I am too. But you have to be a little more unbiased to correctly assess situations like these. It's not that bad of a punishment though. They fine him 75 K and he plays next week. Hopefully next time he'll aim lower.

I don't have a problem with Robinson's hit either. Merriweather was a punk and got what he deserved. James and Dunta didn't do anything wrong- at least not at the time of the supposed infractions. I think much of the outrage is the NFL's fining players for hits that weren't even penalized in the game.

What happens when he aims lower next week and takes out Ricky Williams knee? Will that be OK with the league?

[grotonsteel]

[quote=cruzer8]Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

My point is... What makes YOU right? Or Stlrz? You are not an authority on the matter. You watch a video and express your opinion. That's fine. But you can't claim any fact or reason that makes you any more right than me. It's a difference of opinion. The league's opinion will probably support mine. But we'll see...

What makes us right is it's clear by watching that Harrison wasn't trying to hit the WR high. That's what makes us right. It's not opinion when it is on display as plain as day. You are the one making insinuations based on outcome instead of actual evidence before the fact.

1) Harrison was in perfect position to make a tackle.

2) Harrison is facing MM squarely and in a crouched position.

3) Harrison is bringing his arms up to make contact but has not left his feet.

4) MM sees Harrison as he is preparing to hit and ducks.

5) As a result of MM ducking, Harrison (who cannot stop his momentum in less than a fraction of a second) makes contact with MM's head.

6) Harrison leaves his feet *after* making contact as a natural reaction to avoid falling over backwards.

The NFL is trying to legislate something subjective that takes place in the blink of an eye. That is going to lead to much more bad then good.

If you like the direction the NFL is going then why don't you just accelerate the process by flipping over to arena football? Because that's what Goodell is trying to do to the NFL. His belief is that people want high scoring so that's what he's giving them. He doesn't give a fsck about defense or players on the defensive side of the ball. He's all about offense.

This isn't the NBA, this is football. The NBA sucks. The NFL does not...yet.

And btw, your assertion all along was that Harrison intentionally tried to hit MM high and that if he was fined it would prove that you were right. That simply is not true. They fined him because of all the media attention and because of all the crying pu$$ies screaming about hard hits in *gasp* football.

The only thing this fine proves is that Goodell is hell bent on crafting this league into something the Madden generation may want to see, but not something *I* want to see, and based on what I've seen and heard so far, it's not something NFL fans who have actually been around for more than a minute want to see either. Goodell sucks. So does anyone who agrees with what he is doing. If that includes you then so be it...you suck too.

Bravo!! This is about as money as money gets. Thanks for breakin this down stlrz d.

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap[/quote:1yfspirx]


+1

Well said Stlrz D

Goodell needs to go...

[stlrz d]

Dee Dub - It just really pisses me off to see what Goodell is doing to the league and I simply can't fathom that anyone out there is in agreement with him.

Send him a letter. I'm sure he'll see your logic and change his mind. While you're at it, swear at him, because that helps to make your points more valid.

If you think there was nothing wrong with Harrison's hit on MM, you're looking through steeler colored glasses. I appreciate that you're a devoted fan. I am too. But you have to be a little more unbiased to correctly assess situations like these. It's not that bad of a punishment though. They fine him 75 K and he plays next week. Hopefully next time he'll aim lower.

He did aim low you bozo. The WR ducked...why is it so difficult for you to get that through your thick skull. If a person's head is at point A, I aim to hit them at point B (lower than point A) and the person moves their head to point B a microsecond before I make contact with them I have no control over that.

Next defenders will start going at legs to make sure they are low enough, someone will have a knee taken out and the league will start this all over again.

I'm not looking at it with Steelers glasses. Of all the hits I saw only the Merriweather one looks cheap. The rest are good, hard football. It's got nothing to do with the uniform you fool but keep saying that because, unlike swearing used for emphasis, that tactic really makes your points more valid.

I said it before, I'll say it again and I will continue to say it...Goodell sucks and if you support him then you suck too.

[stlrz d]

Btw, @RyanClark tweeted tonight that Harrison's hits look so violent because he uses all the strength in his legs to create as much force as he can when he delivers a blow. Just like all football players are taught from the first time they play tackle football...they just aren't all capable of doing it.

Clark was also looking for suggestions on how to separate the man from the ball over the middle w/out it costing him $75k.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/ind ... um=twitter (http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/blog-n-gold/22471-a-tweet-to-tweet-hit?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[StarSpangledSteeler]

[quote="stlrz d":3nwfaq37]Dee Dub - It just really pisses me off to see what Goodell is doing to the league and I simply can't fathom that anyone out there is in agreement with him.

Send him a letter. I'm sure he'll see your logic and change his mind. While you're at it, swear at him, because that helps to make your points more valid.

If you think there was nothing wrong with Harrison's hit on MM, you're looking through steeler colored glasses. I appreciate that you're a devoted fan. I am too. But you have to be a little more unbiased to correctly assess situations like these. It's not that bad of a punishment though. They fine him 75 K and he plays next week. Hopefully next time he'll aim lower.

He did aim low you bozo. The WR ducked...why is it so difficult for you to get that through your thick skull. If a person's head is at point A, I aim to hit them at point B (lower than point A) and the person moves their head to point B a microsecond before I make contact with them I have no control over that.

Next defenders will start going at legs to make sure they are low enough, someone will have a knee taken out and the league will start this all over again.

I'm not looking at it with Steelers glasses. Of all the hits I saw only the Merriweather one looks cheap. The rest are good, hard football. It's got nothing to do with the uniform you fool but keep saying that because, unlike swearing used for emphasis, that tactic really makes your points more valid.

I said it before, I'll say it again and I will continue to say it...Goodell sucks and if you support him then you suck too.[/quote:3nwfaq37]

I don't know how much more energy I have for this. You listed your points as YOU see them. YOU do not feel the receiver was defenseless. YOU feel Harrison aimed low. YOU do not feel Harrison did anything wrong. I get it. But you have to understand... the league disagrees with you on all counts. It's like if you got arrested for assault and convicted based on video evidence. And you're arguing with the judge saying "I didn't hit him. I was trying to push him and he ducked his face into my hand." And then the judge says, "No you hit him." You can express your opinion all you want but you're still guilty, you're still wrong, and you're still going to jail. I'm betting you never spent too much time in college.

[stlrz d]

You've got it all wrong and the evidence is clear that Harrison did *not* try to hit the WR high. The fact that the NFL fined him does *not* support that. The NFL is doing a knee jerk reaction to all the people who are "so upset" about the hard hits. Period.

You are wrong and everyone here knows you are wrong (and your analogy is totally wrong as well) so you really should just save your energy. Anyone watching video of the hit or looking at still photos of it can see that Harrison was squared up to make a good hit in the torso of the WR and the WR ducks, creating the H2H contact. That is totally beyond the defender's control.

There is no need to continue this discussion...the video and photographic evidence both prove that you are wrong.

[Leper Friend]

Sorry SSS, but the league fining Harrison wouldn't make you right.

They have the ultimate say in what they do but a fine on Harrison doesn't mean that you were right that he intentionally attempted to hit the receiver high. He is crouched in a good football position and ready to deliver a hit. The receiver crouches just before impact. That's not Harrison's fault.

My point is... What makes YOU right? Or Stlrz? You are not an authority on the matter. You watch a video and express your opinion. That's fine. But you can't claim any fact or reason that makes you any more right than me. It's a difference of opinion. The league's opinion will probably support mine. But we'll see...

What makes us right is it's clear by watching that Harrison wasn't trying to hit the WR high. That's what makes us right. It's not opinion when it is on display as plain as day. You are the one making insinuations based on outcome instead of actual evidence before the fact.

1) Harrison was in perfect position to make a tackle.

2) Harrison is facing MM squarely and in a crouched position.

3) Harrison is bringing his arms up to make contact but has not left his feet.

4) MM sees Harrison as he is preparing to hit and ducks.

5) As a result of MM ducking, Harrison (who cannot stop his momentum in less than a fraction of a second) makes contact with MM's head.

6) Harrison leaves his feet *after* making contact as a natural reaction to avoid falling over backwards.

The NFL is trying to legislate something subjective that takes place in the blink of an eye. That is going to lead to much more bad then good.

If you like the direction the NFL is going then why don't you just accelerate the process by flipping over to arena football? Because that's what Goodell is trying to do to the NFL. His belief is that people want high scoring so that's what he's giving them. He doesn't give a fsck about defense or players on the defensive side of the ball. He's all about offense.

This isn't the NBA, this is football. The NBA sucks. The NFL does not...yet.

And btw, your assertion all along was that Harrison intentionally tried to hit MM high and that if he was fined it would prove that you were right. That simply is not true. They fined him because of all the media attention and because of all the crying pu$$ies screaming about hard hits in *gasp* football.

The only thing this fine proves is that Goodell is hell bent on crafting this league into something the Madden generation may want to see, but not something *I* want to see, and based on what I've seen and heard so far, it's not something NFL fans who have actually been around for more than a minute want to see either. Goodell sucks. So does anyone who agrees with what he is doing. If that includes you then so be it...you suck too.
What's absolutely astonishing to me is the number of people who are in favor of this. It blows my mind that even 1 fan would like this new rule.The NFL has been calling pass interference and holding for 100 years and can't even do that with a little amount of consistency.Why in the world would anyone think that this will be called accurately ?

[Leper Friend]

The only thing this fine proves is that Goodell is hell bent on crafting this league into something the Madden generation may want to see, but not something *I* want to see, and based on what I've seen and heard so far, it's not something NFL fans who have actually been around for more than a minute want to see either. Goodell sucks. So does anyone who agrees with what he is doing. If that includes you then so be it...you suck too.
This is what happens when you pander to the mindless masses. This is not where it's going to end , that's the biggest concern to me. 5 years ago horsecollar tackles and crackback blocks (Hines Ward rule ) were still legal and considered good hard football plays.Not anymore. The game will be unrecognizable in 10 years but the NFL won't care. More pansy fans cheering because nobody got a bruise = more dollars.

Enjoy James Harrison now because he's the last of his kind. Of course , there is a large amount of fans who are ok with that. Afterall , he hits too hard.

[ikestops85]

What's absolutely astonishing to me is the number of people who are in favor of this. It blows my mind that even 1 fan would like this new rule.The NFL has been calling pass interference and holding for 100 years and can't even do that with a little amount of consistency.Why in the world would anyone think that this will be called accurately ?

What astonishes me is I have heard only a few 'common' fans in favor of this. The vast majority seem to feel like we do on this board. The onus is put entirely on the defensive player and we do know they (the NFL) won't make consistent calls on this.

I'm all for player safety but what the Goodell regime is trying to implement will only cause controversy and does nothing to keep the players safe.

[feltdizz]

What's absolutely astonishing to me is the number of people who are in favor of this. It blows my mind that even 1 fan would like this new rule.The NFL has been calling pass interference and holding for 100 years and can't even do that with a little amount of consistency.Why in the world would anyone think that this will be called accurately ?

What astonishes me is I have heard only a few 'common' fans in favor of this. The vast majority seem to feel like we do on this board. The onus is put entirely on the defensive player and we do know they (the NFL) won't make consistent calls on this.

I'm all for player safety but what the Goodell regime is trying to implement will only cause controversy and does nothing to keep the players safe.

I'm in Charlotte and while the fans don't have anything resembling an NFL team this year most people calling in are in favor of fining the h2h hits. They keep talking about malicious intent vs. correct tackling technique.

I think most on this board are against the fine for Harrison's... but take him out of the discussion and I wonder how many are upset about the Pats fine and the ATL fine.

It's kinda funny reading the "you're wrong, I'm right because I am" opinions on Harrison though...

[RuthlessBurgher]

What's absolutely astonishing to me is the number of people who are in favor of this. It blows my mind that even 1 fan would like this new rule.The NFL has been calling pass interference and holding for 100 years and can't even do that with a little amount of consistency.Why in the world would anyone think that this will be called accurately ?

What astonishes me is I have heard only a few 'common' fans in favor of this. The vast majority seem to feel like we do on this board. The onus is put entirely on the defensive player and we do know they (the NFL) won't make consistent calls on this.

I'm all for player safety but what the Goodell regime is trying to implement will only cause controversy and does nothing to keep the players safe.

I'm in Charlotte and while the fans don't have anything resembling an NFL team this year most people calling in are in favor of fining the h2h hits. They keep talking about malicious intent vs. correct tackling technique.

I think most on this board are against the fine for Harrison's... but take him out of the discussion and I wonder how many are upset about the Pats fine and the ATL fine.

It's kinda funny reading the "you're wrong, I'm right because I am" opinions on Harrison though...

I'm also against the Dunta Robinson fine. The Robinson and Harrison hits were simply hard hits that happened to have unfortunate consequences. However, they were not malicious or egregious. The Meriweather hit, on the other hand, was malicious and egregrious. I wouldn't have been upset if a suspension was attached to that one, since he was clearly head-hunting Heap there.

[Leper Friend]

What's absolutely astonishing to me is the number of people who are in favor of this. It blows my mind that even 1 fan would like this new rule.The NFL has been calling pass interference and holding for 100 years and can't even do that with a little amount of consistency.Why in the world would anyone think that this will be called accurately ?

What astonishes me is I have heard only a few 'common' fans in favor of this. The vast majority seem to feel like we do on this board. The onus is put entirely on the defensive player and we do know they (the NFL) won't make consistent calls on this.

I'm all for player safety but what the Goodell regime is trying to implement will only cause controversy and does nothing to keep the players safe.

I'm in Charlotte and while the fans don't have anything resembling an NFL team this year most people calling in are in favor of fining the h2h hits. They keep talking about malicious intent vs. correct tackling technique.

I think most on this board are against the fine for Harrison's... but take him out of the discussion and I wonder how many are upset about the Pats fine and the ATL fine.

It's kinda funny reading the "you're wrong, I'm right because I am" opinions on Harrison though...The Robinson fine was the worst of the bunch. He lead with his shoulder.There isn't even a grey area.
It looked bad because Jackson weighs 180 pounds.Well , if you way 180 pounds and come across the middle , that's the kind of thing that's supposed to happen.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I've been thinking about this issue. The first question I ask is why is the league going to these measures? Why do they want to change some of the culture of the way players hit other players in certain situations? The first answer that comes to mind is player safety. The league does not want any play to suffer an injury severe enough to kill a player. How will people view a sport that did not attempt to do anything to prevent something like that from happening? Just because a play did not die yet does not mean the potential is not there. The goal is to limit the opportunities of that from happening.

I think that some fans are overreacting. The initial reaction for people to many situations or news is to be against change. I think most fans will adapt. Speaking for myself, I don't watch the games for the big hits. I'd rather see sound fundamental football with good execution as opposed to the overrated hits.

The NFL needs to do more then fine players. If they want to change the way some hits are delivered in the future, owners, coaches, and players need to take some responsibility . I don't think it will happen over night.

[NWNewell]

75k? Come on!

I can understand the NFL wanting to protect the players. And I can even swallow fines for incidental head to head contact.... the 5k/10k variety!

This was in no way a malicious or dirty hit. He did not launch himself, he did not lead with the crown of the helment... heck, he did not even drive through the guy (Harrison was standing up-right at the point of contact). He was just a brick wall in the middle of the field. $75k for what is at worst an incidental head-to-head.

Players are coached to get lower than the other guy and gain leverage. So what is the first body part that is going to arrive? It's basic human anatomy. And at the speed the game is played, it is impossible to always avoid.

I've decided to boycott the NFL (not the Steelers). I won't watch ANY other NFL games except for Steeler games. I wish others would do the same, but I know people wont. And I know there is really nothing we can do about it but vent and take it up the a$$.

Maybe Harrison should learn to skate and play a REAL contact sport across the river.

[steelblood]

I've been thinking about this issue. The first question I ask is why is the league going to these measures? Why do they want to change some of the culture of the way players hit other players in certain situations? The first answer that comes to mind is player safety.


You act like you had to figure that out. I think the league has been clear that player safety is the motivation here.

Unfortunately, The league cares so much about player safety that they sell pictures of Harrison's hit and video compilations of big hits (that include fineable, violent, and dangerous collisions - many with "defenseless" receivers. Hypocrisy really pisses me off.

Harrison is a throwback. He plays like Butkus, Nitchske, or Lambert. The problem is that even these classic linebackers would be villianized by the media today. They all refused to answer questions diplomatically and were the authors of some violent hits where the intent was to intimidate their opponents. To fine Harrison for that particular hit is an attempt to fundamentally change the way the game is played and has been played. Can you imagine if the NFL asked Dick Butkus to ease up because he might hurt someone? Hell, there might not even be an NFL in that case.

[sd steel]

Listening to sports talk radio here in San Diego the consensus is for a softer gentler NFL. Fine and suspend all devastating blows, and penalize on the field with a 25 yard penalty and kick the offending player out of the game. I heard over 40 calls agreeing with this, and it sickens me. I also heard fans calling out specific teams that are always known to hit with this ferocity, (Steelers, Ravens).

I think the fix is pretty easy. If the offensive player is worried about getting hit, DON"T CATCH THE BALL! Don't run in the middle of the field, and have alligator arms when you are attempting to catch a pass over the middle. If players would quit running through the middle of the field unprotected with their heads not on a swivel, they wouldn't run the risk of getting hit so hard. Problem solved.

[hawaiiansteel]

guess Massaquoi shouldn't have gone low and dropped his head, huh?


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/assets_c/2010/10/national-football-league-2010-season-week-6-james-harrison-mohamed-massaquoi-nfl-1011-wk6-00264lg-thumb-250x187-22748.jpg

[BURGH86STEEL]

I've been thinking about this issue. The first question I ask is why is the league going to these measures? Why do they want to change some of the culture of the way players hit other players in certain situations? The first answer that comes to mind is player safety.


You act like you had to figure that out. I think the league has been clear that player safety is the motivation here.

Unfortunately, The league cares so much about player safety that they sell pictures of Harrison's hit and video compilations of big hits (that include fineable, violent, and dangerous collisions - many with "defenseless" receivers. Hypocrisy really pisses me off.

Harrison is a throwback. He plays like Butkus, Nitchske, or Lambert. The problem is that even these classic linebackers would be villianized by the media today. They all refused to answer questions diplomatically and were the authors of some violent hits where the intent was to intimidate their opponents. To fine Harrison for that particular hit is an attempt to fundamentally change the way the game is played and has been played. Can you imagine if the NFL asked bad word Butkus to ease up because he might hurt someone? Hell, there might not even be an NFL in that case.

If it is so clear to people, why the moaning and groaning? People should be in favor of player safety.

The league did not post that stuff. That was posted by a 3rd party. In any event, the league is attempting to change, for the good. If you are pissed off by hypocrisy, maybe you should stop supporting the NFL? We live under many hypocrisies in America. Are you pissed about those hypocrisies also?

The game is different now then it was back in the throw back days. The players are bigger, stronger, and faster today. They feel they need to do what they can to protect players' heads and necks from injury. I can't blame the league for making the attempt. Either fans and players can adapt or they can choose not to watch and play the sport.

It's not an easy or popular stance by the league. It's probably one the league had to take based on the number of reported concussions.

[AngryAsian]

...The league did not post that stuff. That was posted by a 3rd party. In any event, the league is attempting to change, for the good. If you are pissed off by hypocrisy, maybe you should stop supporting the NFL? We live under many hypocrisies in America. Are you pissed about those hypocrisies also?...

1) 3rd party or not, someone from their website approved for the photo to be sold on their site, thus advocating its appropriateness. It was only when some other media personnel pointed out the hypocrisy that they yanked it.

2) The DVD that Schlereth brought forth in his interview on SportCenter has been for sale on the NFL website for quite some time now. But now I think they also yanked it, once again a reactionary measure so that they don't seem like hypocrites.

3) Everyone is aware that there are all kinds of hypocrisies in our lives as Americans, and yes, like everyone else, I'm pissed off about those as well. But this isn't the forum to discuss those issues. However, this is the right forum to discuss our opinions about the NFL and issues that concern the Steelers. You have every right to have an opposing stance on the subject, but if people want to take the time to weigh in on this particular issue and be mad about it, they surely have the right to do so. If it bothers you, just don't read the rants.

[Leper Friend]

I've been thinking about this issue. The first question I ask is why is the league going to these measures? Why do they want to change some of the culture of the way players hit other players in certain situations? The first answer that comes to mind is player safety.


You act like you had to figure that out. I think the league has been clear that player safety is the motivation here.

Unfortunately, The league cares so much about player safety that they sell pictures of Harrison's hit and video compilations of big hits (that include fineable, violent, and dangerous collisions - many with "defenseless" receivers. Hypocrisy really pisses me off.

Harrison is a throwback. He plays like Butkus, Nitchske, or Lambert. The problem is that even these classic linebackers would be villianized by the media today. They all refused to answer questions diplomatically and were the authors of some violent hits where the intent was to intimidate their opponents. To fine Harrison for that particular hit is an attempt to fundamentally change the way the game is played and has been played. Can you imagine if the NFL asked bad word Butkus to ease up because he might hurt someone? Hell, there might not even be an NFL in that case.

If it is so clear to people, why the moaning and groaning? People should be in favor of player safety.

The league did not post that stuff. That was posted by a 3rd party. In any event, the league is attempting to change, for the good. If you are pissed off by hypocrisy, maybe you should stop supporting the NFL? We live under many hypocrisies in America. Are you pissed about those hypocrisies also?

The game is different now then it was back in the throw back days. The players are bigger, stronger, and faster today. They feel they need to do what they can to protect players' heads and necks from injury. I can't blame the league for making the attempt. Either fans and players can adapt or they can choose not to watch and play the sport.

It's not an easy or popular stance by the league. It's probably one the league had to take based on the number of reported concussions.
I'm not even sure what you're point is. Hypocrisy is ok ? Whatever you were trying to say , who cares , it's whiny bitc### like you that is the problem.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I've been thinking about this issue. The first question I ask is why is the league going to these measures? Why do they want to change some of the culture of the way players hit other players in certain situations? The first answer that comes to mind is player safety.


You act like you had to figure that out. I think the league has been clear that player safety is the motivation here.

Unfortunately, The league cares so much about player safety that they sell pictures of Harrison's hit and video compilations of big hits (that include fineable, violent, and dangerous collisions - many with "defenseless" receivers. Hypocrisy really pisses me off.

Harrison is a throwback. He plays like Butkus, Nitchske, or Lambert. The problem is that even these classic linebackers would be villianized by the media today. They all refused to answer questions diplomatically and were the authors of some violent hits where the intent was to intimidate their opponents. To fine Harrison for that particular hit is an attempt to fundamentally change the way the game is played and has been played. Can you imagine if the NFL asked bad word Butkus to ease up because he might hurt someone? Hell, there might not even be an NFL in that case.

If it is so clear to people, why the moaning and groaning? People should be in favor of player safety.

The league did not post that stuff. That was posted by a 3rd party. In any event, the league is attempting to change, for the good. If you are pissed off by hypocrisy, maybe you should stop supporting the NFL? We live under many hypocrisies in America. Are you pissed about those hypocrisies also?

The game is different now then it was back in the throw back days. The players are bigger, stronger, and faster today. They feel they need to do what they can to protect players' heads and necks from injury. I can't blame the league for making the attempt. Either fans and players can adapt or they can choose not to watch and play the sport.

It's not an easy or popular stance by the league. It's probably one the league had to take based on the number of reported concussions.
I'm not even sure what you're point is. Hypocrisy is ok ? Whatever you were trying to say , who cares , it's whiny bitc### like you that is the problem.

If people want to be upset about the hypocrisy of the NFL, have fun. I don't see the point. This is certainly not the first issue that the NFL has shown hypocrisy. It won't be the last. If people are that upset about the hypocrisy of the league, why support the NFL? If I felt as strongly as some appear, I would give up sports like some people I know.

Explain how I am a problem? The league is attempting to make the game safer for the players. That's something I agree with. If that makes me a, "whiny bitc###" in your eyes, so be it. It's unfortunate that you were unable to come up with a better response.

[Leper Friend]

I've been thinking about this issue. The first question I ask is why is the league going to these measures? Why do they want to change some of the culture of the way players hit other players in certain situations? The first answer that comes to mind is player safety.


You act like you had to figure that out. I think the league has been clear that player safety is the motivation here.

Unfortunately, The league cares so much about player safety that they sell pictures of Harrison's hit and video compilations of big hits (that include fineable, violent, and dangerous collisions - many with "defenseless" receivers. Hypocrisy really pisses me off.

Harrison is a throwback. He plays like Butkus, Nitchske, or Lambert. The problem is that even these classic linebackers would be villianized by the media today. They all refused to answer questions diplomatically and were the authors of some violent hits where the intent was to intimidate their opponents. To fine Harrison for that particular hit is an attempt to fundamentally change the way the game is played and has been played. Can you imagine if the NFL asked bad word Butkus to ease up because he might hurt someone? Hell, there might not even be an NFL in that case.

If it is so clear to people, why the moaning and groaning? People should be in favor of player safety.

The league did not post that stuff. That was posted by a 3rd party. In any event, the league is attempting to change, for the good. If you are pissed off by hypocrisy, maybe you should stop supporting the NFL? We live under many hypocrisies in America. Are you pissed about those hypocrisies also?

The game is different now then it was back in the throw back days. The players are bigger, stronger, and faster today. They feel they need to do what they can to protect players' heads and necks from injury. I can't blame the league for making the attempt. Either fans and players can adapt or they can choose not to watch and play the sport.

It's not an easy or popular stance by the league. It's probably one the league had to take based on the number of reported concussions.
I'm not even sure what you're point is. Hypocrisy is ok ? Whatever you were trying to say , who cares , it's whiny bitc### like you that is the problem.

If people want to be upset about the hypocrisy of the NFL, have fun. I don't see the point. This is certainly not the first issue that the NFL has shown hypocrisy. It won't be the last. If people are that upset about the hypocrisy of the league, why support the NFL? If I felt as strongly as some appear, I would give up sports like some people I know.

Explain how I am a problem? The league is attempting to make the game safer for the players. That's something I agree with. If that makes me a, "whiny bitc###" in your eyes, so be it. It's unfortunate that you were unable to come up with a better response.
You are the problem. You don't like football. You can't take the physical aspect of it.Now the NFL is pandering to fags like you who think it's too violent.Go away.

[stlrz d]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10/ja ... ion-video/ (http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10/james-harrison-hit-on-mohamed-massaquoi-frame-by-frame-super-slow-motion-video/)

[ikestops85]

If people want to be upset about the hypocrisy of the NFL, have fun. I don't see the point. This is certainly not the first issue that the NFL has shown hypocrisy. It won't be the last. If people are that upset about the hypocrisy of the league, why support the NFL? If I felt as strongly as some appear, I would give up sports like some people I know.

Explain how I am a problem? The league is attempting to make the game safer for the players. That's something I agree with. If that makes me a, "whiny bitc###" in your eyes, so be it. It's unfortunate that you were unable to come up with a better response.

I am not in favor of hypocrisy either. It does upset me and I think it should upset everyone. Especially when the hypocrites are trying to get me to spend lots of my hard earned money on their product. I don't believe the league is trying to make it safer for the players. Maybe it's just the cynic in me but I think they want to stop the bad PR and this is how they went about it. I don't think it's working because they seem to have stirred up a hornets nest and continue to get the bad PR.

... and you are not a problem. Your opinion differs from mine and certainly RodisGod but these are just opinions. We all have them and in this case I don't think either of us knows which one would turn out to be the correct one. Keep on posting because that is what this forum is for and why I like hanging around here. :Cheers

[ALLD]

I would like to see a play in garbage time in Miami where Miami is down 9 points with a few seconds to go. Henne dumps one over the middle and Harrison two-hand touches the WR and lets him score so they beat the point spread.

I would be interesting to see what Vegas would have to say about that. It could also degenerate into attempted handshakes or kissing as the WR makes the catch.