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siss
10-14-2010, 11:09 AM
If true, I have lost some respect for Bradshaw.
Roethlisberger said he made an effort to extend an olive branch to Bradshaw within the past two months, leaving an unreturned voicemail.

"I've always said how awesome he is," Roethlisberger said of Bradshaw, who could not be reached for comment. "He has everything I want: Super Bowls, Hall of Fame, maybe the greatest to play quarterback — definitely as a Steeler. All the things that he's said, I'm not really sure where they came from, but no hard feelings on my side."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ben ... 6965.story (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ben-roethlisberger-20101014,0,3576965.story)

SteelTorch
10-14-2010, 11:23 AM
If true, I have lost some respect for Bradshaw.
Roethlisberger said he made an effort to extend an olive branch to Bradshaw within the past two months, leaving an unreturned voicemail.

"I've always said how awesome he is," Roethlisberger said of Bradshaw, who could not be reached for comment. "He has everything I want: Super Bowls, Hall of Fame, maybe the greatest to play quarterback — definitely as a Steeler. All the things that he's said, I'm not really sure where they came from, but no hard feelings on my side."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ben ... 6965.story (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ben-roethlisberger-20101014,0,3576965.story)
This may be blasphemy, but I already consider Ben a better QB than Bradshaw. Face, it Bradshaw is only in the HoF because he has four Superbowls - he was never a great QB (save for some of the big games). I think Bradshaw may be realizing this, and his anti-Ben agenda could be fueled more out of jealousy than anything else.

I think someone I know from work put it best: Bradshaw will eventually be remembered as the QB who won four Superbowls, but Roethlisberger will be remembered as the best Steeler's QB.

And this article is just more evidence of how much of a bitter pr#@k Bradshaw has become.

proudpittsburgher
10-14-2010, 11:29 AM
Grain of salt. . . . I know there is probably an element of truth to all of this, but Ben is in the business of rehabilitating his image right now, he is saying all of the right things, all of the time. Terry buried himself with his rant before the Steelers opening game against Atlanta, Ben can only look good in this story. I am sure this olive branch has been made after Ben was a douschbag to Terry in the past, otherwise I see no reason for Bradshaw to be this much of a dick to him now. If Ben truly hasn't been nasty to TB in the past, and Tb is treating him this way now anyway. . . well, then, this will close the book on the Terry Bradshaw/Steelers connection forever.

ikestops85
10-14-2010, 11:29 AM
I have already lost a ton of respect for Bradshaw over his comments. They were uncalled for and completely off the mark coming from him. Of course coming from a guy who is proud of his pass on the immaculate reception play why should I be surprised.

I have always thought of Terry as somewhat of a buffoon based on his personna on the pregame show and other interviews he has given. His ego has been greatly inflated by those steeler fans who never realized he was along for the ride for their first 2 SB victories. He then matured and captained the ship for the next 2 victories.

To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Crash ... you're up!! :Beer

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 11:39 AM
If true, I have lost some respect for Bradshaw.
Roethlisberger said he made an effort to extend an olive branch to Bradshaw within the past two months, leaving an unreturned voicemail.

"I've always said how awesome he is," Roethlisberger said of Bradshaw, who could not be reached for comment. "He has everything I want: Super Bowls, Hall of Fame, maybe the greatest to play quarterback — definitely as a Steeler. All the things that he's said, I'm not really sure where they came from, but no hard feelings on my side."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ben ... 6965.story (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ben-roethlisberger-20101014,0,3576965.story)


I remember Ben saying he called Santonio Holmes when he was drafted and got the domestic charge and Holmes never returned the call.

I wouldn't use this unreturned phone call as the barometer for respecting Bradshaw. His last rant on TV was more than enough.

I had no problem with the initial bashing Bradshaw did... he is a commentator, but he kept riding Ben after the fact and made it personal.

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 11:50 AM
To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



I disagree about riding coattails... it's a team sport and when our O looks bad and the D saves the day for Ben in a game we get upset when people point it out. Every SB highlight I watch on offense is Terry dropping back to throw a bomb to Swann or Stallworth besides the run up the gut by Franco when he was PO'ed.

The Steelers were terrible and Bradshaw was bad at times but during those SB years he was really good when it mattered.

My frustration with Bradshaw was the Atlanta rant... that was uncalled for and way too personal. Obviously there is some bad blood. Terry said "It's obvious Ben doesn't like me and I really don't like him"

Maybe he is a jealous and paranoid guy... I don't really give a sh!t though. There is room for both in the Hall and room for both in Steeler history.

pfelix73
10-14-2010, 12:04 PM
I don't understand Bradshaw's way of thinking. I guess he inherited it all from his dad- I think he was that way- Hard-headed and stubborn, jealous-like. Terry used to say that if he ever returned to Pittsburgh he would have a cold reception from the fans, etc. until he did return the one time- and the crowd gave him a huge round of applause. The city loved him when he returned. Why wouldn't we all love the great Blonde Bomber, but if he keeps this ranting up, he can forget about coming back to Pittsburgh for any other warm receptions. He needs to apologize to Ben, in my opinion. Nothing good comes from being jealous of someone else.

On another note- About our DYNASTY. Why can't the dynasty still be going on? I look at it this way- since the hiring of the Great Emperor (Noll) we've only had two other head coaches (emperors) and the same ownership. We've won multiple division titles over the past 40 years along with 7 AFC Championships and the 6 Lombardies, ie- World Championships....

Our dynasty has been an ongoing one for over 40 years now.... Let the Good Times Roll.....


:tt1

Dee Dub
10-14-2010, 12:30 PM
If true, I have lost some respect for Bradshaw....

What Terry Bradshaw did on a football field as a QB for the Pittsburgh Steelers will never be diminished no matter what comes out of his mouth.

Now if you lose respect for a football player based on what he says, then you may consider changing your own values..and turning your respect towards something that is worthy of it. Why does a football player garner your respect in the first place? Just because he is athletically gifted?

Matthew 12:34—

“For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.”

James 3: 9-18

“With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt[a] water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.”

“Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. “

“But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.”

SteelTorch
10-14-2010, 12:33 PM
If true, I have lost some respect for Bradshaw....

What Terry Bradshaw did on a football field as a QB for the Pittsburgh Steelers will never be diminished no matter what comes out of his mouth.

Now if you lose respect for a football player based on what he says, then you may consider changing your own values..and turning your respect towards something that is worthy of it. Why does a football player garner your respect in the first place? Just because he is athletically gifted?

His football accomplishments can't be tarnished. His reputation and character image most certainly can.

Also, it is possible to respect a football player aside from just his athletic talent. Troy P is a great example - he's a great player, but I also respect him because he's a great person off the field. Terry Bradshaw is slowly revealing himself as a bitter goon off the field with his latest actions.

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 12:37 PM
I don't understand Bradshaw's way of thinking. I guess he inherited it all from his dad- I think he was that way- Hard-headed and stubborn, jealous-like. Terry used to say that if he ever returned to Pittsburgh he would have a cold reception from the fans, etc. until he did return the one time- and the crowd gave him a huge round of applause. The city loved him when he returned. Why wouldn't we all love the great Blonde Bomber, but if he keeps this ranting up, he can forget about coming back to Pittsburgh for any other warm receptions. He needs to apologize to Ben, in my opinion. Nothing good comes from being jealous of someone else.

On another note- About our DYNASTY. Why can't the dynasty still be going on? I look at it this way- since the hiring of the Great Emperor (Noll) we've only had two other head coaches (emperors) and the same ownership. We've won multiple division titles over the past 40 years along with 7 AFC Championships and the 6 Lombardies, ie- World Championships....

Our dynasty has been an ongoing one for over 40 years now.... Let the Good Times Roll.....


:tt1

I can understand why Terry was so bitter towards the fans. 4 SB's and we booed him like crazy... it's part of the game but it has to hurt. Add in some of the FO and coaches arguing with you and saying this or that and it can turn into pure hatred for a team you would think the player loves.

Look at LeBron.. he is one of the most hated athletes in all of sports because he changed teams, he milked it a little but still, Cleveland hates the guy and he gave them a ton of memories and thoughts of a championship. The owner called LeBron a quitter.

Fans are tough on their heroes and if your last memory was a stadium of fans booing you I bet you would wonder WTF?

Look at McNabb... Most of the Philly fans hated his guts and one year later it's a standing ovation.

Some guys can put it in perspective but some athletes hold onto that kind of stuff. There is a reason a guy like Jordan isn't in the Chicago FO...

Crash
10-14-2010, 12:44 PM
Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Like I said, the ONLY guy you hear talking about Ben the bad teammate is #86. Once #86 goes, the Ben is a bad teammate stories will go with him.

These two stories below are before Reno, and before Georgia.

September 2008:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08248/909259-66.stm

January 2009:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09011/941061-66.stm

How come no one mentions these?

Dee Dub
10-14-2010, 12:55 PM
I can understand why Terry was so bitter towards the fans. 4 SB's and we booed him like crazy...

Say what??? :shock:

Just a little insight here from someone who was a Steeler fan back then. Terry Bradshaw wasn’t booed after he won super bowls. It was the first 5 years of his career when he struggled to develop. This was prior to him winning any super bowl. :wink:

ikestops85
10-14-2010, 12:56 PM
To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



I disagree about riding coattails... it's a team sport and when our O looks bad and the D saves the day for Ben in a game we get upset when people point it out. Every SB highlight I watch on offense is Terry dropping back to throw a bomb to Swann or Stallworth besides the run up the gut by Franco when he was PO'ed.

The Steelers were terrible and Bradshaw was bad at times but during those SB years he was really good when it mattered.

My frustration with Bradshaw was the Atlanta rant... that was uncalled for and way too personal. Obviously there is some bad blood. Terry said "It's obvious Ben doesn't like me and I really don't like him"

Maybe he is a jealous and paranoid guy... I don't really give a sh!t though. There is room for both in the Hall and room for both in Steeler history.

So you don't think Trent Dilfer road the coattails of the Baltimore defense when they won the SB?

I know it is a team sport and I didn't mean to infer that he didn't contribute. Just that his contribution was minor compared to other components of the team. I do find it interesting that many steeler fans take umbrage to the fact I point out Bradshaw was a bad QB during the beginning of his career.

Maybe some of you aren't old enough to remember those games. Terry wasn't a loved QB back then. Steeler fans cheered Bradshaw getting injured (not a proud moment in Steeler history) because that meant Terry Hanratty entered the game. People loved when Jefferson Street Joe got the starting nod during his short stint in the burg.

Anyway, I give Terry props for some of the great years he had as a Steeler. I also recognize that he wasn't always great.

ikestops85
10-14-2010, 01:00 PM
To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



I disagree about riding coattails... it's a team sport and when our O looks bad and the D saves the day for Ben in a game we get upset when people point it out. Every SB highlight I watch on offense is Terry dropping back to throw a bomb to Swann or Stallworth besides the run up the gut by Franco when he was PO'ed.

The Steelers were terrible and Bradshaw was bad at times but during those SB years he was really good when it mattered.

My frustration with Bradshaw was the Atlanta rant... that was uncalled for and way too personal. Obviously there is some bad blood. Terry said "It's obvious Ben doesn't like me and I really don't like him"

Maybe he is a jealous and paranoid guy... I don't really give a sh!t though. There is room for both in the Hall and room for both in Steeler history.

So you don't think Trent Dilfer road the coattails of the Baltimore defense when they won the SB?

I know it is a team sport and I didn't mean to infer that he didn't contribute. Just that his contribution was minor compared to other components of the team. I do find it interesting that many steeler fans take umbrage to the fact I point out Bradshaw was a bad QB during the beginning of his career.

Maybe some of you aren't old enough to remember those games. Terry wasn't a loved QB back then. Steeler fans cheered Bradshaw getting injured (not a proud moment in Steeler history) because that meant Terry Hanratty entered the game. People loved when Jefferson Street Joe got the starting nod during his short stint in the burg.

Anyway, I give Terry props for some of the great years he had as a Steeler. I also recognize that he wasn't always great.

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 01:02 PM
I don't disagree about Dilfer...I disagree that Terry road coattails like Dilfer...

I think when you win 4 SB's people don't care about the rough start Terry had.

Peyton went 1-15 his first year... no one cares though.

Crash
10-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Bradshaw's jealous. He's jealous of the money Ben makes as a player. He's jealous of his early career success. Same way Ben bashed Elway when he started.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Meanwhile Bradshaw was giving Noll "Play me or trade me" demands MONTHS into his pro career.

Just who had the bigger ego here?

proudpittsburgher
10-14-2010, 01:24 PM
Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Like I said, the ONLY guy you hear talking about Ben the bad teammate is #86. Once #86 goes, the Ben is a bad teammate stories will go with him.

These two stories below are before Reno, and before Georgia.

September 2008:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08248/909259-66.stm

January 2009:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09011/941061-66.stm

How come no one mentions these?


What do they have to do with Ward, other than him calling Ben "our wild child" in the first story?

Crash
10-14-2010, 02:13 PM
Nothing to do with Ward. But Ward is the only one running his mouth about Bad Teammate Ben and people take that as gospel.

Media ignore the good quotes from ben's teammates. They also ignore the constant YEARS of Ward throwing his own team under the bus. Teammates, coaches, owners, etc. They've all felt Ward's wrath in the press. But because he smiles and gives media good quote he gets a free pass.

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Nothing to do with Ward. But Ward is the only one running his mouth about Bad Teammate Ben and people take that as gospel.

Media ignore the good quotes from ben's teammates. They also ignore the constant YEARS of Ward throwing his own team under the bus. Teammates, coaches, owners, etc. They've all felt Ward's wrath in the press. But because he smiles and gives media good quote he gets a free pass.


the only one ignoring the praise by the other players seems to be you. All you focus on is defending Ben's honor by pointing out Ward 's hate for Ben.

more then half the board says STFU Ward every time he says something they don't agree with.

Ward is a WR... why are you so hell bent on pointing out that Ward acts like the typical NFL WR? We have shipped Plax and Holmes out... why haven't we shipped Ward out? Because he is half Vietnamese? :roll:

No one ignores the good Ben does... but he keeps getting in the way of his good deeds with bad publicity and unfortunate incidents that make you say hmmm?

One other thing... you keep talking about the good Ben does like he deserves some sort of freaking medal. The franchise $100 mill QB is supposed to do good sh!t. He isn't supposed to do bad sh!t. It's like a guy who brags about being a good parent like he is doing the impossible. So what.. it's what you are supposed to do.

papillon
10-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Nothing to do with Ward. But Ward is the only one running his mouth about Bad Teammate Ben and people take that as gospel.

Media ignore the good quotes from ben's teammates. They also ignore the constant YEARS of Ward throwing his own team under the bus. Teammates, coaches, owners, etc. They've all felt Ward's wrath in the press. But because he smiles and gives media good quote he gets a free pass.


the only one ignoring the praise by the other players seems to be you. All you focus on is defending Ben's honor by pointing out Ward 's hate for Ben.

more then half the board says STFU Ward every time he says something they don't agree with.

Ward is a WR... why are you so hell bent on pointing out that Ward acts like the typical NFL WR? We have shipped Plax and Holmes out... why haven't we shipped Ward out? Because he is half Vietnamese? :roll:

No one ignores the good Ben does... but he keeps getting in the way of his good deeds with bad publicity and unfortunate incidents that make you say hmmm?

One other thing... you keep talking about the good Ben does like he deserves some sort of freaking medal. The franchise $100 mill QB is supposed to do good sh!t. He isn't supposed to do bad sh!t. It's like a guy who brags about being a good parent like he is doing the impossible. So what.. it's what you are supposed to do.

:Bow :Bow

Pappy

Crash
10-14-2010, 02:48 PM
One other thing... you keep talking about the good Ben does like he deserves some sort of freaking medal.

No, I bring it up because people act like he doesn't do it.

Rod Woodson on the NFLN was asked what Ben needs to do to "win back the city"?

Woodson said Ben needed to give back to the community and host football camps for kids.

Uh, hello? Earth to Rod? Ben's been hosting a kids football camp in Pittsburgh for years.

THAT kind of crap, is what pisses me off. Especially coming from a player who claimed the city of Pittsburgh was racist.

Even today Jason Whitlock:

It's no secret that before the suspension many of Roethlisberger's teammates, particularly Hines Ward, tolerated Big Ben solely because of his talent. Roethlisberger's arrogance and immaturity turned off a good portion of the Steelers locker room.
__________

According to who? Ward? I'm sorry but when it comes to arrogance Ben isn't in Ward's league.

Before the suspension Ben was voted team Captain in 2008 and 2009, and was team MVP last season.

So SOMEONE has to like him before he was suspended? No?

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 02:59 PM
Rod Woodson on the NFLN was asked what Ben needs to do to "win back the city"?

Woodson said Ben needed to give back to the community and host football camps for kids.

Uh, hello? Earth to Rod? Ben's been hosting a kids football camp in Pittsburgh for years.



Once you lose someone's trust you can't point to your good deeds in the past as proof they should forgive you. You have to "win it back" so to speak.

Everyone knows Ben host a camp but he is going to have to do that and more... to win people over.

Now as far as the media goes. These guys have to talk for a half hour.. they are going to say good, bad and plain ole dumb things from time to time. You have this crazy expectation that every media head should say all the right things, all the time, about Ben. It's not going to happen.

Can you go on e day without typing Ward?

Crash
10-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Everyone knows Ben host a camp but he is going to have to do that and more... to win people over.

I would bet Rod didn't know based on his answer.

Rod only bleeds black in gold when they bring him in for a function and give him a free meal. Other than that? He constantly bashes the Steelers on NFLN.

AngryAsian
10-14-2010, 03:27 PM
I have already lost a ton of respect for Bradshaw over his comments. They were uncalled for and completely off the mark coming from him. Of course coming from a guy who is proud of his pass on the immaculate reception play why should I be surprised.

I have always thought of Terry as somewhat of a buffoon based on his personna on the pregame show and other interviews he has given. His ego has been greatly inflated by those steeler fans who never realized he was along for the ride for their first 2 SB victories. He then matured and captained the ship for the next 2 victories.

To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Crash ... you're up!! :Beer

Sorry brother, have to disagree on your contention that TB rode anybody's coattails. Throughout the 90's we had dominant defenses without much success attaining the championship. Make no mistake about it, TB deserves his HOF status. You do not get back to back SB MVP honors without playing lights out in the clutch. I'm old enough to have watched those games (and not as a five year old)... he was a true field general. Though much of the accolades were bestowed upon arguably the greatest defensive units to have ever played in the NFL, the Steelers of the 70's won because of how complete the teams were on both sides of the ball. TB was as pivotal on offense as Lambert were on defense.

As for TB's post playing days.... he's been quite the bonehead.

Oviedo
10-14-2010, 03:35 PM
I have already lost a ton of respect for Bradshaw over his comments. They were uncalled for and completely off the mark coming from him. Of course coming from a guy who is proud of his pass on the immaculate reception play why should I be surprised.

I have always thought of Terry as somewhat of a buffoon based on his personna on the pregame show and other interviews he has given. His ego has been greatly inflated by those steeler fans who never realized he was along for the ride for their first 2 SB victories. He then matured and captained the ship for the next 2 victories.

To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Crash ... you're up!! :Beer

Sorry brother, have to disagree on your contention that TB rode anybody's coattails. Throughout the 90's we had dominant defenses without much success attaining the championship. Make no mistake about it, TB deserves his HOF status. You do not get back to back SB MVP honors without playing lights out in the clutch. I'm old enough to have watched those games (and not as a five year old)... he was a true field general. Though much of the accolades were bestowed upon arguably the greatest defensive units to have ever played in the NFL, the Steelers of the 70's won because of how complete the teams were on both sides of the ball. TB was as pivotal on offense as Lambert were on defense.

As for TB's post playing days.... he's been quite the bonehead.

:Agree Terry doesn't think much before he opens his mouth if he thinks at all.

The reality is that terry does have a sense of resentment on how Ben has been treated by the fans. But look at the facts. Terry came here from the deep south, talked funny, wore funny clothes, etc. Ben came from next door Ohio and looked and acted very much like a Pittsburger from day 1 while Terry as I recall almost tried to prove at every opportunity that he was a country boy and not like Pittsburgers. Of course people were going to have a affinity for Ben.

Terry needs to get over himself and quit taking every opportunity to grind an axe that has worn down to nothing.

Discipline of Steel
10-14-2010, 07:09 PM
Im surprised you've all missed on one of the most important facts...Ben boinked Bradshaws hot daughter. What more needs to be said?

DkBlue
10-14-2010, 07:33 PM
Bradshaw was entitled to his first comments but the second was over the line. He has always been emotional and not the best balanced of individuals.

As a quarterback, Ben has a way to go to match Bradshaw. I can safely say I saw every game Bradshaw played and he was an incredible football player.

Ben does not have his arm or his leadership intensity in games.

grotonsteel
10-14-2010, 08:07 PM
As a quarterback, Ben has a way to go to match Bradshaw.

I have not seen Bradshaw played but looking at his stat in first 7 years...they are outright pathetic....

Bad TD/INT ratio, Bad YPA, Bad % completion.

Ben is way ahead of the curve as far as QB position goes.......i can't predict the future but if Ben continues what he is doing its safe to say he will will be miles ahead...

Ben is a HOF QB even if he retires tomorrow.

ikestops85
10-14-2010, 08:20 PM
I have already lost a ton of respect for Bradshaw over his comments. They were uncalled for and completely off the mark coming from him. Of course coming from a guy who is proud of his pass on the immaculate reception play why should I be surprised.

I have always thought of Terry as somewhat of a buffoon based on his personna on the pregame show and other interviews he has given. His ego has been greatly inflated by those steeler fans who never realized he was along for the ride for their first 2 SB victories. He then matured and captained the ship for the next 2 victories.

To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Crash ... you're up!! :Beer

Sorry brother, have to disagree on your contention that TB rode anybody's coattails. Throughout the 90's we had dominant defenses without much success attaining the championship. Make no mistake about it, TB deserves his HOF status. You do not get back to back SB MVP honors without playing lights out in the clutch. I'm old enough to have watched those games (and not as a five year old)... he was a true field general. Though much of the accolades were bestowed upon arguably the greatest defensive units to have ever played in the NFL, the Steelers of the 70's won because of how complete the teams were on both sides of the ball. TB was as pivotal on offense as Lambert were on defense.

As for TB's post playing days.... he's been quite the bonehead.

I'm not talking about his HOF status. I'm talking about how bad he was during the early part of his career. Did you know that Bradshaw was benched in 1974, the year the Steelers won their first SB? Do they do that to a main cog of the team ... a true Field General? I don't think so.

Crash
10-14-2010, 08:46 PM
Bradshaw won nothing until the greatest draft class EVER, arrived in 1974.

Ben won a ring with Ward, El, Cedrick Wilson, and Nate Washington at WR and an undrafted free agent at RB.

SteelCzar76
10-14-2010, 09:02 PM
Even with all that Terry did for the Steeler Organization aside (in terms of contributing to a Dynasty),...i still would never hold anything that he has said or will ever say concerning Roethlisberger against him.(Terry)

Why ? Because he's getting after Roethlisberger not the Steelers.

He (Terry) can tell Roethlisberger to get a bib and proceed to an all he can eat D#ck buffet every time Ben's name is even mentioned for all that i care.

As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....

Crash
10-14-2010, 09:10 PM
Terry has disrespected the franchise from day one.

MONTHS into his pro career he demanded Play me or Trade me.

He then wanted traded in 1974.

Bitched about Noll in 1983-1984.

Skipped the Chiefs funeral.

Had Verne friggin' Lundquist induct him.

Would not return Dan Rooney's call when he was nominated for the Hall.

He's an ungrateful jagoff. Period.

I'm just sayin,.....

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 09:25 PM
Bradshaw won nothing until the greatest draft class EVER, arrived in 1974.

Ben won a ring with Ward, El, Cedrick Wilson, and Nate Washington at WR and an undrafted free agent at RB.

While Ben was the difference in our run to the SB the undrafted RB and Ward/El connection clinched are first SB.

Ben could retire tommorow and make the HOF... but Terry has 4 and the highlights to prove it. No one cares about Steve Youngs regular season stats... Montana's regular season stats or if he had a few down years... it's the playoffs and SB's that matter to the football gods.

SteelTorch
10-14-2010, 09:28 PM
Bradshaw won nothing until the greatest draft class EVER, arrived in 1974.

Ben won a ring with Ward, El, Cedrick Wilson, and Nate Washington at WR and an undrafted free agent at RB.

While Ben was the difference in our run to the SB the undrafted RB and Ward/El connection clinched are first SB.

Ben could retire tommorow and make the HOF... but Terry has 4 and the highlights to prove it. No one cares about Steve Youngs regular season stats... Montana's regular season stats or if he had a few down years... it's the playoffs and SB's that matter to the football gods.
No, the STEELERS have 4 SB's from that era. Football is a team sport, and there's more to a QB than just how many Superbowls he has. TB, for what it's worth, was a mediocre quarterback, even for that era. He ONLY shined in the big games.

Oh, by the way, you're kidding yourself if you think nobody looks at regular season stats.

SteelTorch
10-14-2010, 09:31 PM
As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....
Maybe because Ben is part of the franchise. Just sayin.

grotonsteel
10-14-2010, 09:44 PM
Terry has disrespected the franchise from day one.

MONTHS into his pro career he demanded Play me or Trade me.

He then wanted traded in 1974.

Bitched about Noll in 1983-1984.

Skipped the Chiefs funeral.

Had Verne friggin' Lundquist induct him.

Would not return Dan Rooney's call when he was nominated for the Hall.

He's an ungrateful jagoff. Period.

I'm just sayin,.....

Well said....

BTW Bradshaw attended a preseason game over Chiefs funeral how screwed up is that...

I feel Bradshaw has too many skeletons in his closet to point fingers at Ben...he just needs to STFU about Ben...

grotonsteel
10-14-2010, 09:45 PM
As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....
Maybe because Ben is part of the franchise. Just sayin.

:Agree

ikestops85
10-14-2010, 10:24 PM
As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....
Maybe because Ben is part of the franchise. Just sayin.

:Agree

+1

AngryAsian
10-14-2010, 10:28 PM
I have already lost a ton of respect for Bradshaw over his comments. They were uncalled for and completely off the mark coming from him. Of course coming from a guy who is proud of his pass on the immaculate reception play why should I be surprised.

I have always thought of Terry as somewhat of a buffoon based on his personna on the pregame show and other interviews he has given. His ego has been greatly inflated by those steeler fans who never realized he was along for the ride for their first 2 SB victories. He then matured and captained the ship for the next 2 victories.

To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Crash ... you're up!! :Beer

Sorry brother, have to disagree on your contention that TB rode anybody's coattails. Throughout the 90's we had dominant defenses without much success attaining the championship. Make no mistake about it, TB deserves his HOF status. You do not get back to back SB MVP honors without playing lights out in the clutch. I'm old enough to have watched those games (and not as a five year old)... he was a true field general. Though much of the accolades were bestowed upon arguably the greatest defensive units to have ever played in the NFL, the Steelers of the 70's won because of how complete the teams were on both sides of the ball. TB was as pivotal on offense as Lambert were on defense.

As for TB's post playing days.... he's been quite the bonehead.

I'm not talking about his HOF status. I'm talking about how bad he was during the early part of his career. Did you know that Bradshaw was benched in 1974, the year the Steelers won their first SB? Do they do that to a main cog of the team ... a true Field General? I don't think so.


Your making one season's notation to support your contention is a little weak, bro. TB was benched for one game in '74 and this makes him a "rider of coattails?" And this benching in '74 impacted him so much that he helped the Steelers win their first SB in franchise history with a passer rating of 108. Yes I agree with you the first four years of his career he really didn't produce much (something like 25 and 17) with really only Franco as a team mate that is somewhat noteworthy... but then the 74 draft happened and TB got an instant upgrade with Webster, Swann and Stallworth. Could it be that like most QBs, it took some time for the maturation process to happen, coupled with an upgrade in talent with pieces being integrated around him, for TB to really see his potential?

feltdizz
10-14-2010, 10:59 PM
Bradshaw won nothing until the greatest draft class EVER, arrived in 1974.

Ben won a ring with Ward, El, Cedrick Wilson, and Nate Washington at WR and an undrafted free agent at RB.

While Ben was the difference in our run to the SB the undrafted RB and Ward/El connection clinched are first SB.

Ben could retire tommorow and make the HOF... but Terry has 4 and the highlights to prove it. No one cares about Steve Youngs regular season stats... Montana's regular season stats or if he had a few down years... it's the playoffs and SB's that matter to the football gods.
No, the STEELERS have 4 SB's from that era. Football is a team sport, and there's more to a QB than just how many Superbowls he has. TB, for what it's worth, was a mediocre quarterback, even for that era. He ONLY shined in the big games.

Oh, by the way, you're kidding yourself if you think nobody looks at regular season stats.

yeah.... while we all know ts a team sport let's not kid ourselves. QB's are given a win loss stat for a reason.

Make sure to correct anyone when they talk about Ben having 2 rings when they defend his HOF status.

You will only hear about a QB's regular season stats if their post season stats suck. You may not like it but legends are made in the post season.

ikestops85
10-14-2010, 11:08 PM
I have already lost a ton of respect for Bradshaw over his comments. They were uncalled for and completely off the mark coming from him. Of course coming from a guy who is proud of his pass on the immaculate reception play why should I be surprised.

I have always thought of Terry as somewhat of a buffoon based on his personna on the pregame show and other interviews he has given. His ego has been greatly inflated by those steeler fans who never realized he was along for the ride for their first 2 SB victories. He then matured and captained the ship for the next 2 victories.

To me his career is divided into 2 separate and distinct parts. The first part where he was very Trent Dilfer like and rode the coattails of a great defense, amazing offensive line and class running backs. The second part he became very Tom Brady like where he was the best clutch QB in the league and focal point of the team.

I love Bradshaw because he was a Steeler and a big part one of the best dynasty in football. I just don't like him very well at times ... normally whenever he opens his mouth.



Ward, among his biggest supporters, conceded it's impossible to know if the quarterback's apparent changes are lasting or simply convenient.

Crash ... you're up!! :Beer

Sorry brother, have to disagree on your contention that TB rode anybody's coattails. Throughout the 90's we had dominant defenses without much success attaining the championship. Make no mistake about it, TB deserves his HOF status. You do not get back to back SB MVP honors without playing lights out in the clutch. I'm old enough to have watched those games (and not as a five year old)... he was a true field general. Though much of the accolades were bestowed upon arguably the greatest defensive units to have ever played in the NFL, the Steelers of the 70's won because of how complete the teams were on both sides of the ball. TB was as pivotal on offense as Lambert were on defense.

As for TB's post playing days.... he's been quite the bonehead.

I'm not talking about his HOF status. I'm talking about how bad he was during the early part of his career. Did you know that Bradshaw was benched in 1974, the year the Steelers won their first SB? Do they do that to a main cog of the team ... a true Field General? I don't think so.


Your making one season's notation to support your contention is a little weak, bro. TB was benched for one game in '74 and this makes him a "rider of coattails?" And this benching in '74 impacted him so much that he helped the Steelers win their first SB in franchise history with a passer rating of 108. Yes I agree with you the first four years of his career he really didn't produce much (something like 25 and 17) with really only Franco as a team mate that is somewhat noteworthy... but then the 74 draft happened and TB got an instant upgrade with Webster, Swann and Stallworth. Could it be that like most QBs, it took some time for the maturation process to happen, coupled with an upgrade in talent with pieces being integrated around him, for TB to really see his potential?

No, Terry was benched for 7 games in 1974. Joe Gilliam started the first 6, Bradshaw the next 2 and then Hanratty got a start. After the Hanratty start Bradshaw was inserted back into the lineup and played thru the Super Bowl.

Essentially you are agreeing with me. It did take some time for Terry to mature and once he did he was great (see my first post on this issue). But he still was Dilfer-esque in his play early in his career and the other parts of the team helped carry him. The latter part of his career he helped carry the running game which was starting to decline.

It's not a big deal but many steeler fans forget how bad Bradshaw was in the beginning and how the fans constantly called for him to be replaced. Much like Crash doesn't think Ben makes any mistakes :twisted: some only remember Bradshaw's highlights and conveniently forget the low-lights.

AngryAsian
10-15-2010, 12:21 AM
No, Terry was benched for 7 games in 1974. Joe Gilliam started the first 6, Bradshaw the next 2 and then Hanratty got a start. After the Hanratty start Bradshaw was inserted back into the lineup and played thru the Super Bowl.

Essentially you are agreeing with me. It did take some time for Terry to mature and once he did he was great (see my first post on this issue). But he still was Dilfer-esque in his play early in his career and the other parts of the team helped carry him. The latter part of his career he helped carry the running game which was starting to decline.

It's not a big deal but many steeler fans forget how bad Bradshaw was in the beginning and how the fans constantly called for him to be replaced. Much like Crash doesn't think Ben makes any mistakes :twisted: some only remember Bradshaw's highlights and conveniently forget the low-lights.


I never thought TB was infallible... I guess what confused me is the 'riding on the coattails of a great defense'... because when the defense finally was at that stellar level, the Steelers were winning championships and TB was serviceable and then eventually leadership material, otherwise we wouldn't have won those rings or at least the latter two. Like most sports heroes during one's youth, TB and many others on those teams were ICONIC. But he has been extremely disappointing in his post playing days. His disorder I'm sure has been a contributing factor to his 'at times' skewed sense of reality.

flippy
10-15-2010, 12:22 AM
At least Ray Lewis returns Ben's calls and texts.

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 09:26 AM
It's not a big deal but many steeler fans forget how bad Bradshaw was in the beginning and how the fans constantly called for him to be replaced. Much like Crash doesn't think Ben makes any mistakes :twisted: some only remember Bradshaw's highlights and conveniently forget the low-lights.

I think you also have to take into account how bad the Steelers were prior to TB..

We stunk and TB had his ups and downs early in his career but he was good when the lights were on.

Ben has had an outstanding career so far but plenty of detractors could point out gaps in his stellar play where our O seems to go into WTF mode for a few games...

but when the lights are on and it's playoff time.... Ben is money.

SteelCzar76
10-15-2010, 12:20 PM
As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....
Maybe because Ben is part of the franchise. Just sayin.


I understand your perspective Dude. However,...i cannot agree as i put NO individual player, (my all time favorites included) on the same level as the Franchise in terms of regard. And that goes especially for Ben Roethlisberger as i admittedly never cared much for the guy at all at any point.

But again that's just my opinion,... which has nothing to do with the fact that the issues between him and Terry are the "Business" of two grown azz men. Whom neither of which give's a f#ck about the support or disdain of absolute strangers.

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 12:25 PM
As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....
Maybe because Ben is part of the franchise. Just sayin.


I understand your perspective Dude. However,...i cannot agree as i put NO individual player, (my all time favorites included) on the same level as the Franchise in terms of regard. And that goes especially for Ben Roethlisberger as i admittedly never cared much for the guy at all at any point.

But again that's just my opinion,... which has nothing to do with the fact that the issues between him and Terry are the "Business" of two grown azz men. Whom neither of which give's a f#ck about the support or disdain of absolute strangers.

Are there any current Steelers you like? You sound like you aren't too fond of Tomlin and the new guys.

SteelCzar76
10-15-2010, 12:53 PM
As long as he's (Terry) not disrespecting the franchise, why should what he says about Roethlisberger matter to anyone that is not related to, friends with or dating Ben ?

I'm just sayin,.....
Maybe because Ben is part of the franchise. Just sayin.


I understand your perspective Dude. However,...i cannot agree as i put NO individual player, (my all time favorites included) on the same level as the Franchise in terms of regard. And that goes especially for Ben Roethlisberger as i admittedly never cared much for the guy at all at any point.

But again that's just my opinion,... which has nothing to do with the fact that the issues between him and Terry are the "Business" of two grown azz men. Whom neither of which give's a f#ck about the support or disdain of absolute strangers.

Are there any current Steelers you like? You sound like you aren't too fond of Tomlin and the new guys.


Troy's my second all time favorite behind Rod Dizz. And Aaron, Potsie, Hamp, Hines, Silverback, Heath, Wood, Kemo, Ike (even though he's killed me for years with the hot hands heenan bizness) and now this Pouncey kid are all players that i can honestly say i "like" if you will. And Coach Lebeau has the mind of a defensive Demigod and is man that i truely respect and honor.

Not to say i dislike everyone else,..but they really are of no consequence to me,...

aggiebones
10-15-2010, 02:17 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive, Thank goodness. But let's not act like Ben carried us for his 2 and Terry's first 2 were in spite of him.

As for ranking them, I might move Ben equal to him if he wins another one. They both have moments of being a pain in the butt and both have been helped considerably by the team factor early on in their careers. But if Ben wins another a 4th SB he would take sole position in my mind as far as the whole packet.
Terry has always been a douche to the franchise. That never settles well with me.

Crash
10-15-2010, 02:29 PM
The defense was the MVP of XLIII after they gave up 14 points in the 4th quarter?

Okay then.

papillon
10-15-2010, 02:36 PM
The defense was the MVP of XLIII after they gave up 14 points in the 4th quarter?

Okay then.

I actually believe that game was the beginning of the defensive lapses late in games to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The Steelers simply managed to pull that game out with a drive for the ages.

Pappy

Steelers>NFL
10-15-2010, 02:42 PM
I am not getting in the debate over who is the better QB. Bradshaw or Ben. Ben or Bradshaw. I have been Steeler fan since 1976. So I am aware fo all of good and bad with both Bradshaw and Ben. They both played/play in different era.
Bradshaw would thrive well with today's NFL rules. The real question is, would Ben thrive
in the NFL back in the day? Probably. But do not know. Never will know.
I am just greatful, despite all the headaches and dramas they both brought/bring to the Steeler organization that they were/are Steelers and brought championships to the great city of Pittsburgh. :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 :tt1 :tt1

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 02:51 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive, Thank goodness. But let's not act like Ben carried us for his 2 and Terry's first 2 were in spite of him.

As for ranking them, I might move Ben equal to him if he wins another one. They both have moments of being a pain in the butt and both have been helped considerably by the team factor early on in their careers. But if Ben wins another a 4th SB he would take sole position in my mind as far as the whole packet.
Terry has always been a douche to the franchise. That never settles well with me.

After what Ben has been through who knows how he will treat the NFL or our franchise after he retires... he may write a tell all that tells us to eat a DI## sandwich. 8)

Crash
10-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Ben's better. Ben didn't have the same starting WRs and RB for the most of 8 seasons like Terry did. Ben won early, while learning on the job, and having constant change around him on offense.

For example Peyton had Harrison and Wayne for 8 years.

Ben when he takes a snap Sunday will have five different #1-#2 WR combos in seven years in the league. If he wins another? That's three different WR combos and three rings. That says a lot about HIS talent, and his making players around him better.

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 03:13 PM
Ben's better. Ben didn't have the same starting WRs and RB for the most of 8 seasons like Terry did. Ben won early, while learning on the job, and having constant change around him on offense.

For example Peyton had Harrison and Wayne for 8 years.

Ben when he takes a snap Sunday will have five different #1-#2 WR combos in seven years in the league. If he wins another? That's three different WR combos and three rings. That says a lot about HIS talent, and his making players around him better.

Ben had Ward the whole time, maybe Ward made Ben better :stirpot

just sayin'

Sugar
10-15-2010, 03:18 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive, Thank goodness. But let's not act like Ben carried us for his 2 and Terry's first 2 were in spite of him.

As for ranking them, I might move Ben equal to him if he wins another one. They both have moments of being a pain in the butt and both have been helped considerably by the team factor early on in their careers. But if Ben wins another a 4th SB he would take sole position in my mind as far as the whole packet.
Terry has always been a douche to the franchise. That never settles well with me.

After what Ben has been through who knows how he will treat the NFL or our franchise after he retires... he may write a tell all that tells us to eat a DI## sandwich. 8)

I honestly wouldn't blame him if he did.

grotonsteel
10-15-2010, 03:20 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive



Well i pretty sure people are talking about an entire NFL season and not just SB games. And comparing Terry Bradshaw and Ben Rothlesberger first 7 years in NFL Ben is way better QB than terry

Terry Bradshaw had season of 6TD-24 INT, 13TD-22 INT...10TD-15 INT...boy if Ben started like that there would be 1000 threads with Ben is a BUST.....

To say Defense was MVP until last drive in SB43 is ridiculous....Maybe you need to watch that game...

Defense was taken for a ride entire second half by Kurt Warner and Larry Fitz...

SB43 was the precursor of 2009 season..4thQ meltdown by Defense...

Only good thing defense did was to allow Kurt score quickly so that it would give Ben some time to score...

Crash
10-15-2010, 03:48 PM
Ben had Ward the whole time, maybe Ward made Ben better

Ward started 5 of the previous 6 years prior to Ben, the Steelers made the playoffs TWICE.

Ward started the last 6 seasons with Ben, the Steelers made the playoffs four times and won two rings.

Just sayin'

Steelers>NFL
10-15-2010, 04:16 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive



Well i pretty sure people are talking about an entire NFL season and not just SB games. And comparing Terry Bradshaw and Ben Rothlesberger first 7 years in NFL Ben is way better QB than terry

Terry Bradshaw had season of 6TD-24 INT, 13TD-22 INT...10TD-15 INT...boy if Ben started like that there would be 1000 threads with Ben is a BUST.....

To say Defense was MVP until last drive in SB43 is ridiculous....Maybe you need to watch that game...

Defense was taken for a ride entire second half by Kurt Warner and Larry Fitz...

SB43 was the precursor of 2009 season..4thQ meltdown by Defense...

Only good thing defense did was to allow Kurt score quickly so that it would give Ben some time to score...

Yeah, Terry threw more interceptions. But Terry had far less run ins with the law. :stirpot

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Ben had Ward the whole time, maybe Ward made Ben better

Ward started 5 of the previous 6 years prior to Ben, the Steelers made the playoffs TWICE.

Ward started the last 6 seasons with Ben, the Steelers made the playoffs four times and won two rings.

Just sayin'

Tommy Maddox and Kordell aren't TB

Just sayin'

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 04:29 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive



Well i pretty sure people are talking about an entire NFL season and not just SB games. And comparing Terry Bradshaw and Ben Rothlesberger first 7 years in NFL Ben is way better QB than terry

Terry Bradshaw had season of 6TD-24 INT, 13TD-22 INT...10TD-15 INT...boy if Ben started like that there would be 1000 threads with Ben is a BUST.....

To say Defense was MVP until last drive in SB43 is ridiculous....Maybe you need to watch that game...

Defense was taken for a ride entire second half by Kurt Warner and Larry Fitz...

SB43 was the precursor of 2009 season..4thQ meltdown by Defense...

Only good thing defense did was to allow Kurt score quickly so that it would give Ben some time to score...

Ben didn't start like that because Ben was on a much better team... I'm not taking anything away from Ben, the guy is great but people need to stop talking about TB the player like the Steelers were already a Dynasty when he arrived.


Now as far as the D in the SB... they blew it in the 4th qtr.. but for the first 3 quarters they were the only reason it was even close. The O had 7 plays inside the 10 yard line and couldn't punch it in....

and we turned it over right before the half and the D gave us a 10 to 14 point swing on that last play.

I'm not a big fan of this D in the 4th qtr but lets keep it 100. Our D shut down the Cards for 3 quarters and if they didn't melt down Ben's numbers in the SB are horrible.

Crash
10-15-2010, 05:10 PM
Ben didn't start like that because Ben was on a much better team... I'm not taking anything away from Ben, the guy is great but people need to stop talking about TB the player like the Steelers were already a Dynasty when he arrived.

You mean like they do with Ben?

4 of the previous 6 seasons without Ben they missed the playoffs.

2 of the previous 5 seasons without Ben they had 6-10 seasons.

Ben arrives, and that all changed.

DkBlue
10-15-2010, 05:13 PM
As stated, the Steelers were losers when Bradshaw was drafted. They didn't know how to win.

Noll too what he had and built a dynasty. Bradshaw was from a small school and it took him time to develop and in my view he had little support at first.

As that team developed, he emerged as a leader and a football player. He was fearless under pressure and had a rocket arm.

Terry was much more gifted.

grotonsteel
10-15-2010, 05:43 PM
As stated, the Steelers were losers when Bradshaw was drafted. They didn't know how to win.

Noll too what he had and built a dynasty. Bradshaw was from a small school and it took him time to develop and in my view he had little support at first.

As that team developed, he emerged as a leader and a football player. He was fearless under pressure and had a rocket arm.

Terry was much more gifted.

Ben is from small school too..Infact Ben started playing QB very late..if i am not mistaken he used to play WR in high school.

Ben is one of the most hit QB in NFL right now..i am pretty sure Ben is fearless.

But Ben's record in first 6 season atleast is far better than Terry Bradshaw....

Ben is playing with Hines Ward a borderline HOF WR, Plex played with Ben for one season , Holmes got shipped, Cedrick Wilson, ARE,Nate Washington...and i don't want to get into what players we have on O-line...so its not like Big Ben is playing with some HOF players or pro bowl players.

grotonsteel
10-15-2010, 05:53 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive



Well i pretty sure people are talking about an entire NFL season and not just SB games. And comparing Terry Bradshaw and Ben Rothlesberger first 7 years in NFL Ben is way better QB than terry

Terry Bradshaw had season of 6TD-24 INT, 13TD-22 INT...10TD-15 INT...boy if Ben started like that there would be 1000 threads with Ben is a BUST.....

To say Defense was MVP until last drive in SB43 is ridiculous....Maybe you need to watch that game...

Defense was taken for a ride entire second half by Kurt Warner and Larry Fitz...

SB43 was the precursor of 2009 season..4thQ meltdown by Defense...

Only good thing defense did was to allow Kurt score quickly so that it would give Ben some time to score...

Ben didn't start like that because Ben was on a much better team... I'm not taking anything away from Ben, the guy is great but people need to stop talking about TB the player like the Steelers were already a Dynasty when he arrived.


Now as far as the D in the SB... they blew it in the 4th qtr.. but for the first 3 quarters they were the only reason it was even close. The O had 7 plays inside the 10 yard line and couldn't punch it in....

and we turned it over right before the half and the D gave us a 10 to 14 point swing on that last play.

I'm not a big fan of this D in the 4th qtr but lets keep it 100. Our D shut down the Cards for 3 quarters and if they didn't melt down Ben's numbers in the SB are horrible.


How does a 6-10 team turns into a 15-1 team in today's NFL??? Any change in that team? In 2004 they barely scraped pass OAK in opening game, Lost to Baltimore and boom something happened...and they never lost a game that season.

Also do you know the reason why D shutdown Cardinals in 3rd Q of SB43 ?? Steelers had one almost 9 min scoring drive.

I am not saying D was bad but to say D was the MVP till the last drive is outright ridiculous. And we are talking about Steelers D in 2008 which people were arguing to be the best D ever seen in history of the NFL.

Look at the last TD by Fitz. Troy tapping James Harrison shoulder to let Fitz run in the end zone. Troy wanted Ben to have more time..atleast that's what i derived from it...

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 06:56 PM
Ben didn't start like that because Ben was on a much better team... I'm not taking anything away from Ben, the guy is great but people need to stop talking about TB the player like the Steelers were already a Dynasty when he arrived.

You mean like they do with Ben?

4 of the previous 6 seasons without Ben they missed the playoffs.

2 of the previous 5 seasons without Ben they had 6-10 seasons.

Ben arrives, and that all changed.

Ben is much better then Tommy and Kordell...

you can't compare a few down seasons to the late 60's and early 70's. Those 2 6-10 seasons were the exception not the norm

Crash
10-15-2010, 07:03 PM
And the 7-9 season in 1998?

And the 24 game stretch of 6-18 from 1998-early 2000?

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 07:11 PM
As stated, the Steelers were losers when Bradshaw was drafted. They didn't know how to win.

Noll too what he had and built a dynasty. Bradshaw was from a small school and it took him time to develop and in my view he had little support at first.

As that team developed, he emerged as a leader and a football player. He was fearless under pressure and had a rocket arm.

Terry was much more gifted.

Ben is from small school too..Infact Ben started playing QB very late..if i am not mistaken he used to play WR in high school.

Ben is one of the most hit QB in NFL right now..i am pretty sure Ben is fearless.

But Ben's record in first 6 season atleast is far better than Terry Bradshaw....

Ben is playing with Hines Ward a borderline HOF WR, Plex played with Ben for one season , Holmes got shipped, Cedrick Wilson, ARE,Nate Washington...and i don't want to get into what players we have on O-line...so its not like Big Ben is playing with some HOF players or pro bowl players.


When it's all said and done Ben will have played with Ward (HOF), Holmes (SB MVP and weed idiot), Plax (SB game winning TD and pistol idiot), Bettis(HOF), Faneca(HOF..maybe?)

Besides the OL in 2008 you can't downplay our supporting cast for Ben. Our FO is one of the best at grooming talent with lower draft picks. it's part of the reason we are 6-2 (I think) when Ben hasn't started.

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 07:22 PM
And the 7-9 season in 1998?

And the 24 game stretch of 6-18 from 1998-early 2000?

when did LeBeau take over as DC?

you can throw out all the numbers you like.. none will ever compare to the Steelers record before Bradshaw arrived.

We made it to a SB without Ben... we made it to 3 AFC championships without Ben. Our franchise knows how to build good teams... but without a good QB we kept falling short.

Ben is the key to getting over the playoff hurdle... If he keeps playing at this level he surpass Terry Bradshaw. But you cannot point out the 80's and 90's as proof Ben had it as hard as Terry when he arrived. It's not even close.

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 07:30 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive



Well i pretty sure people are talking about an entire NFL season and not just SB games. And comparing Terry Bradshaw and Ben Rothlesberger first 7 years in NFL Ben is way better QB than terry

Terry Bradshaw had season of 6TD-24 INT, 13TD-22 INT...10TD-15 INT...boy if Ben started like that there would be 1000 threads with Ben is a BUST.....

To say Defense was MVP until last drive in SB43 is ridiculous....Maybe you need to watch that game...

Defense was taken for a ride entire second half by Kurt Warner and Larry Fitz...

SB43 was the precursor of 2009 season..4thQ meltdown by Defense...

Only good thing defense did was to allow Kurt score quickly so that it would give Ben some time to score...

Ben didn't start like that because Ben was on a much better team... I'm not taking anything away from Ben, the guy is great but people need to stop talking about TB the player like the Steelers were already a Dynasty when he arrived.


Now as far as the D in the SB... they blew it in the 4th qtr.. but for the first 3 quarters they were the only reason it was even close. The O had 7 plays inside the 10 yard line and couldn't punch it in....

and we turned it over right before the half and the D gave us a 10 to 14 point swing on that last play.

I'm not a big fan of this D in the 4th qtr but lets keep it 100. Our D shut down the Cards for 3 quarters and if they didn't melt down Ben's numbers in the SB are horrible.


How does a 6-10 team turns into a 15-1 team in today's NFL??? Any change in that team? In 2004 they barely scraped pass OAK in opening game, Lost to Baltimore and boom something happened...and they never lost a game that season.

Look at the last TD by Fitz. Troy tapping James Harrison shoulder to let Fitz run in the end zone. Troy wanted Ben to have more time..atleast that's what i derived from it...

Are you suggesting Ben was the only reason we went 15-1? Sorry... no way. You have to have talent in other areas to go 15-1.

Considered the architect of the Steelers’ famed “zone blitz,” LeBeau was named the Steelers’ defensive coordinator Jan. 16, 2004, after spending the 2003 season with the Buffalo Bills.

Peyton went 1-15 his first year with the Colts... if you don't have talent around you and the team doesn't have a culture of winning it's not going to happen with one guy.

the last TD by Fitz... Troy wasn't tapping Harrison to save time.. he was tapping him to save his breath. Harrison wasn't catching Fitz.

grotonsteel
10-15-2010, 07:32 PM
As stated, the Steelers were losers when Bradshaw was drafted. They didn't know how to win.

Noll too what he had and built a dynasty. Bradshaw was from a small school and it took him time to develop and in my view he had little support at first.

As that team developed, he emerged as a leader and a football player. He was fearless under pressure and had a rocket arm.

Terry was much more gifted.

Ben is from small school too..Infact Ben started playing QB very late..if i am not mistaken he used to play WR in high school.

Ben is one of the most hit QB in NFL right now..i am pretty sure Ben is fearless.

But Ben's record in first 6 season atleast is far better than Terry Bradshaw....

Ben is playing with Hines Ward a borderline HOF WR, Plex played with Ben for one season , Holmes got shipped, Cedrick Wilson, ARE,Nate Washington...and i don't want to get into what players we have on O-line...so its not like Big Ben is playing with some HOF players or pro bowl players.


When it's all said and done Ben will have played with Ward (HOF), Holmes (SB MVP and weed idiot), Plax (SB game winning TD and pistol idiot), Bettis(HOF), Faneca(HOF..maybe?)

Besides the OL in 2008 you can't downplay our supporting cast for Ben. Our FO is one of the best at grooming talent with lower draft picks. it's part of the reason we are 6-2 (I think) when Ben hasn't started.


Plex played just one season with Ben. Bettis was almost done. Infact he was a backup RB in 2004 and 2005 season. Holmes took years to develop as a WR. He was good but never had a breakout year maybe except the last season.

Does Ben ever got a fixed set of player to work with in his first 6 season??? In today's free agency its not possible and that is why it is tough to win SB.

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 07:52 PM
Plex played just one season with Ben. Bettis was almost done. Infact he was a backup RB in 2004 and 2005 season. Holmes took years to develop as a WR. He was good but never had a breakout year maybe except the last season.

Does Ben ever got a fixed set of player to work with in his first 6 season??? In today's free agency its not possible and that is why it is tough to win SB.

But you asked how we went 15-1... Lebeau deserves credit too...

the Ben to Plax connection was really good for that one year and Ben lobbied hard for him to stay for a reason.

Holmes did not take years to develop. He had a decent first year and capped it with a game winning TD in overtime in Cincy.

Bettis was a back up but he took Ben under his wing and he closed out a ton of games and scored a bunch of TD's in the red zone.

Ben has always had Ward... and while the WR's have changed they have always been good. People bash Nate Washington but the guy had top 3 stats for a #3 WR.

Again, I don't think we disagree on how good Ben is but in a Ben vs. Bradshaw thread I think Ben stepped into a better situation. The 80's and 90's was up and down but we always had top 10 D's and we were usually a franchise QB away from greatness. I'm glad Ben fell to us. :tt2

grotonsteel
10-15-2010, 10:50 PM
Wait so we critize Terry's first couple SB as coattail riding, which to a degree it might have been. But Ben certainly road some nice coattails in both his SBs as well. The first 1, he did very little and we relying on Randle El throwing to Ward to cover the game.
In the second one, the defense was the MVP of the game until the last drive



Well i pretty sure people are talking about an entire NFL season and not just SB games. And comparing Terry Bradshaw and Ben Rothlesberger first 7 years in NFL Ben is way better QB than terry

Terry Bradshaw had season of 6TD-24 INT, 13TD-22 INT...10TD-15 INT...boy if Ben started like that there would be 1000 threads with Ben is a BUST.....

To say Defense was MVP until last drive in SB43 is ridiculous....Maybe you need to watch that game...

Defense was taken for a ride entire second half by Kurt Warner and Larry Fitz...

SB43 was the precursor of 2009 season..4thQ meltdown by Defense...

Only good thing defense did was to allow Kurt score quickly so that it would give Ben some time to score...

Ben didn't start like that because Ben was on a much better team... I'm not taking anything away from Ben, the guy is great but people need to stop talking about TB the player like the Steelers were already a Dynasty when he arrived.


Now as far as the D in the SB... they blew it in the 4th qtr.. but for the first 3 quarters they were the only reason it was even close. The O had 7 plays inside the 10 yard line and couldn't punch it in....

and we turned it over right before the half and the D gave us a 10 to 14 point swing on that last play.

I'm not a big fan of this D in the 4th qtr but lets keep it 100. Our D shut down the Cards for 3 quarters and if they didn't melt down Ben's numbers in the SB are horrible.


How does a 6-10 team turns into a 15-1 team in today's NFL??? Any change in that team? In 2004 they barely scraped pass OAK in opening game, Lost to Baltimore and boom something happened...and they never lost a game that season.

Look at the last TD by Fitz. Troy tapping James Harrison shoulder to let Fitz run in the end zone. Troy wanted Ben to have more time..atleast that's what i derived from it...

Are you suggesting Ben was the only reason we went 15-1? Sorry... no way. You have to have talent in other areas to go 15-1.

Considered the architect of the Steelers’ famed “zone blitz,” LeBeau was named the Steelers’ defensive coordinator Jan. 16, 2004, after spending the 2003 season with the Buffalo Bills.

Peyton went 1-15 his first year with the Colts... if you don't have talent around you and the team doesn't have a culture of winning it's not going to happen with one guy.

the last TD by Fitz... Troy wasn't tapping Harrison to save time.. he was tapping him to save his breath. Harrison wasn't catching Fitz.


You never ever give up on any play..

You are telling us Defense gave up on that play to save breath???

grotonsteel
10-15-2010, 11:04 PM
Plex played just one season with Ben. Bettis was almost done. Infact he was a backup RB in 2004 and 2005 season. Holmes took years to develop as a WR. He was good but never had a breakout year maybe except the last season.

Does Ben ever got a fixed set of player to work with in his first 6 season??? In today's free agency its not possible and that is why it is tough to win SB.

But you asked how we went 15-1... Lebeau deserves credit too...

the Ben to Plax connection was really good for that one year and Ben lobbied hard for him to stay for a reason.

Holmes did not take years to develop. He had a decent first year and capped it with a game winning TD in overtime in Cincy.

Bettis was a back up but he took Ben under his wing and he closed out a ton of games and scored a bunch of TD's in the red zone.

Ben has always had Ward... and while the WR's have changed they have always been good. People bash Nate Washington but the guy had top 3 stats for a #3 WR.

Again, I don't think we disagree on how good Ben is but in a Ben vs. Bradshaw thread I think Ben stepped into a better situation. The 80's and 90's was up and down but we always had top 10 D's and we were usually a franchise QB away from greatness. I'm glad Ben fell to us. :tt2


This reply was not for 15-1. I had asked 15-1 in another reply.Maybe you need to read the thread.

Holmes always remained a decent WR..he has only one 1000 yard season in his career.

Washington is tearing up in Tenn last i heard...or maybe they should play him as #3 WR.

Ben never had consistent group of WR to throw at unlike Bradshaw. Every year they are changing. It takes time to build time and confidence with your WRs. Its not plug and play.

BTW do you think Steelers 74 and 75 teams were bad??? What did Bradshaw do till 1977 season..

feltdizz
10-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Never ever give up on a play? You implied Troy tapped Harrison because he had a chance to catch Fitz... LOL. Watch that play again... Harrison couldn't catch Fitz from behind in his dreams. There was no plan to save time. They were burned by one of the best, it happens.

frankthetank1
10-16-2010, 11:02 AM
As stated, the Steelers were losers when Bradshaw was drafted. They didn't know how to win.

Noll too what he had and built a dynasty. Bradshaw was from a small school and it took him time to develop and in my view he had little support at first.

As that team developed, he emerged as a leader and a football player. He was fearless under pressure and had a rocket arm.

Terry was much more gifted.

Ben is from small school too..Infact Ben started playing QB very late..if i am not mistaken he used to play WR in high school.

Ben is one of the most hit QB in NFL right now..i am pretty sure Ben is fearless.

But Ben's record in first 6 season atleast is far better than Terry Bradshaw....

Ben is playing with Hines Ward a borderline HOF WR, Plex played with Ben for one season , Holmes got shipped, Cedrick Wilson, ARE,Nate Washington...and i don't want to get into what players we have on O-line...so its not like Big Ben is playing with some HOF players or pro bowl players.


When it's all said and done Ben will have played with Ward (HOF), Holmes (SB MVP and weed idiot), Plax (SB game winning TD and pistol idiot), Bettis(HOF), Faneca(HOF..maybe?)

Besides the OL in 2008 you can't downplay our supporting cast for Ben. Our FO is one of the best at grooming talent with lower draft picks. it's part of the reason we are 6-2 (I think) when Ben hasn't started.

bettis was old when ben was drafted not in his prime. you cant compare ben's team to TB's. TB had the best supporting cast of players any qb has ever had in the nfl and still managed to throw only 4 more td's than int's. you cant compare the two qb's. ben is much better. he has the better stats and he is bigger, stronger and faster than TB. ben is the supperior athelete. also believe it or not ben has a lot more character than TB, but thats not saying a whole lot. TB is a piece of crap. he burns bridges and holds grudges based on what? he was booed and his ego cant take being the 2nd best steeler qb ever. that is no kind of man.

SteelTorch
10-16-2010, 12:22 PM
As stated, the Steelers were losers when Bradshaw was drafted. They didn't know how to win.

Noll too what he had and built a dynasty. Bradshaw was from a small school and it took him time to develop and in my view he had little support at first.

As that team developed, he emerged as a leader and a football player. He was fearless under pressure and had a rocket arm.

Terry was much more gifted.
Bradshaw's first two seasons were losing seasons. And he had a very nice cast of future HoFers around him, too when he won his first SB.