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Oviedo
10-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Here is a tough one for you. Who is the priority to resign?

Timmons is lighting it up while you could possibly argue that Woodley is off to his typical slow start but gets on fire late in the season.

Crash
10-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Slow start?

steelblood
10-07-2010, 11:41 AM
I love Woodley. He is one of my favorite Steelers. He loves playing here and he has a great personality. That said, he has some holes in his game. His run support is average, and he is a little stiff and slow in man coverage. Don't get me wrong, Woodley is a hard working guy who has improved his game in all ways. But, I think Timmons is a superior athlete and years away from his prime. If it was either/or, I'd go Timmons. Depending on the CBA, I'd franchise Woodley for next season and see where he is after 2011, meanwhile I'd start working on Timmons extension Summer 2011. He may be cheaper than Woodley and more willing to be reasonable with one year left on his rookie deal. But, I hope we can keep both long term.

Northern_Blitz
10-07-2010, 11:45 AM
If I had to choose between Timmons and Woodley, I think I would choose Timmons. I think his abilities would be harder to replace. I'd regret cutting either player because I think both of these young LBs are special players.

If we really didn't have the $$ to sign both, I would cut Harrison (while there was still no cap) and resign the two young guys. I would also regret this decision, but presumably I'd regret it for a shorter period of time. Actually, I would try to trade Harrison...to a team in the NFC, that we weren't scheduled to play in 3 years. Then if he wasn't retired yet when we played, I would think about conceding the game (or at least sit Ben).

StarSpangledSteeler
10-07-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't see any reason why we "couldn't" re-sign both but i'll play along...

The key to the answer lies in the question... Which skillset would be harder to replace?

The answer is Timmons. What does Woodley do? He bull-rushes and swim moves. His positives are he is very strong, he gets very good leverage, and he has good tenacity late in games and late in the season. Woodley is not particularly fast. He is not particularly good in coverage. He is not particularly stout against the run. And sometimes he gets himself off balance and runs past the play. His strength is pass rushing. I love Woodley. I do not want to lose Woodley. But if we did, we can find a new OLB pass rusher. We have done it every couple of years for two decades know. Our system makes good OLB's look great.

Timmons is athletically superior to most of the ILB's in the NFL. I don't think there's an ILB who's faster. You just don't find that kind of speed very often. In our defense, the ability of an ILB to race down Chris Johnson is invaluable. In our defense, the ability to run stride for stride with Dallas Clark is invaluable. But the biggest reason why the answer is Timmons is his upside. He will get even better. He is still very young. Very raw. He has already gotten stronger and will continue to get stronger. As his knowledge increases I believe his instincts will improve which will make him even quicker. I believe he will improve on his pass rushing technique with experience. And learn how to get off blocks better. I don't see Woodley as having huge upside. He is what he is. Which is great. I personally just think its harder to replace Timmons' skillset.

Pahn711
10-07-2010, 11:50 AM
I wouldn't say Woodley is off to a slow start, but I do agree he usually does statistically better as the year goes on.

Looking at the depth between middle linebacker and outside linebacker, I don't think there is any question that Timmons is the higher priority. Farrior doesn't have many years left and Foote is getting up there in age himself. On the flip side, the Steelers have Worilds and Gibson who could potentially play OLB next year, their development over the course of this year would probably be the determining factor anyways.

Considering that Timmons is also the top backup at OLB right now, I'd say his position flexbility makes him even more valuable than Woodley.

flippy
10-07-2010, 11:53 AM
They are both premeire players at their respective positions.

As good as Timmons is, I'd probably go with Woodley because defense is predicated on pressuring the QB. And Woodley is arguably the best at it. Especially come playoff time when it matters most.

But it'd be silly to let either go.

PSU_dropout43
10-07-2010, 12:08 PM
neither.

Steelers will franchise Timmons one year, then they will let him walk.

Jason Worilds and Sylvester Stevenson are the future.

SteelTorch
10-07-2010, 12:10 PM
Both. :P

Oviedo
10-07-2010, 12:13 PM
Both. :P

My choice too even if it means Harrison goes.

feltdizz
10-07-2010, 12:22 PM
Timmons... it's not even close. I like Woodley but I'm glad we didn't give him a stack of guaranteed cash this year.

He is one dimensional IMO... very good in that dimension but Timmons gives you flexibility.

AngryAsian
10-07-2010, 12:34 PM
Can't choose.... both will be re-signed.

Dee Dub
10-07-2010, 12:59 PM
....Woodley is not particularly fast. He is not particularly good in coverage

I don’t agree with this. Woodley has improved in pass coverage. Is he great at it? Absolutely not. But he is far from being “not particularly good in coverage”. And if you notice LeBeau has asked him to do a lot more of it lately. Unlike Demarcus Ware, Terrell Suggs, or Sean Merriman, who rarely are asked to drop in coverage and are afforded the luxury of primarily rushing the QB, Woodley is being asked to drop about 30-40% of the time. And it is increasing every year because he has shown such an improvement.

Now…having said all this, I agree it is easier to replace that LOLB than it is to replace the RILB. Also another big factor is what position has the potential for a viable replacement waiting in the wings. With what the Steelers feel about Jason Worilds, and their track record of success in that area, I think they feel he is going to be more than successful at that position.

Steelers>NFL
10-07-2010, 01:07 PM
Can't choose.... both will be re-signed.
Harrison and Farrior will be gone. So this will leave $$ to sign both Timmons & Woodley.

NW Steeler
10-07-2010, 01:09 PM
neither.

Steelers will franchise Timmons one year, then they will let him walk.

Jason Worilds and Sylvester Stevenson are the future.

Bullsh!t. No way they let both of them go.

BURGH86STEEL
10-07-2010, 01:11 PM
If it boiled down to one or the other, I'd have to choose Timmons because of his versatility.

RuthlessBurgher
10-07-2010, 02:36 PM
Woodley gets a long term extension after this season.

Timmons gets a long term extension after next season.

Steeler linebackers continue to dominate for years to come.

:tt2 :Steel :tt1

papillon
10-07-2010, 02:39 PM
If I had to choose I would take Timmons over Woodley. Here's an interesting question as well. There is a lot of love for Timmons right now in this thread. How many of us would have been able to see Timmons' potential last year and answered this exact same question in Timmons' favor last year?

Besides, Oviedo, I don't think anyone. :P

Pappy

feltdizz
10-07-2010, 02:45 PM
If I had to choose I would take Timmons over Woodley. Here's an interesting question as well. There is a lot of love for Timmons right now in this thread. How many of us would have been able to see Timmons' potential last year and answered this exact same question in Timmons' favor last year?

Besides, Oviedo, I don't think anyone. :P

Pappy

:nono count me in as a big Timmons defender.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to paying Woodley the big bucks... I like him in all but he has gaps in his run and pass D.

RuthlessBurgher
10-07-2010, 02:49 PM
If I had to choose I would take Timmons over Woodley. Here's an interesting question as well. There is a lot of love for Timmons right now in this thread. How many of us would have been able to see Timmons' potential last year and answered this exact same question in Timmons' favor last year?

Besides, Oviedo, I don't think anyone. :P

Pappy

What about the man who was in the Timmons corner originally...before that draft pick even happened...the Chadman!

sentinel33
10-07-2010, 02:58 PM
yeah. the future is woodley, timmons, stevenson and worilds/gibson. the transition will be seamless when farrior and harrison move on. it's called The LeBolbert machine. and it never fails. These two guys put a top 5 defense on the field every single season. Talk about consitency. But if i had to choose i would take Timmons. The upside is the tie-breaker for me.

papillon
10-07-2010, 03:25 PM
If I had to choose I would take Timmons over Woodley. Here's an interesting question as well. There is a lot of love for Timmons right now in this thread. How many of us would have been able to see Timmons' potential last year and answered this exact same question in Timmons' favor last year?

Besides, Oviedo, I don't think anyone. :P

Pappy

:nono count me in as a big Timmons defender.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to paying Woodley the big bucks... I like him in all but he has gaps in his run and pass D.

Sorry Felt, you're absolutely correct sir, you have a been a supporter of Timmons from the start.

I've supported him, but I don't know that last year I would have said, yea, sign him and let Woodley walk.

Pappy

papillon
10-07-2010, 03:26 PM
If I had to choose I would take Timmons over Woodley. Here's an interesting question as well. There is a lot of love for Timmons right now in this thread. How many of us would have been able to see Timmons' potential last year and answered this exact same question in Timmons' favor last year?

Besides, Oviedo, I don't think anyone. :P

Pappy

What about the man who was in the Timmons corner originally...before that draft pick even happened...the Chadman!

Of course, the "Man fromunda, :P I mean from down under" has been a staunch supporter as well.

Pappy

Dee Dub
10-07-2010, 03:31 PM
Oh and if by some chance Woodley does walk in the off season then the draft hound in me says draft UCLA's Akeem Ayers. :lol:

StarSpangledSteeler
10-07-2010, 03:38 PM
....Woodley is not particularly fast. He is not particularly good in coverage

Woodley has improved in pass coverage. Is he great at it? Absolutely not. But he is far from being “not particularly good in coverage”.

That's a tough one to quantify. How do you tell if someone is average, good, decent, or not particularly good, in pass coverage? He's certainly better than Farrior or Foote. It seems I remember Woodley getting his hand on a pass or two in deflection this season. But if he's asked to run with a TE down the field, he's usually significantly overmatched. Also when covering a RB outlet pass in the flat he does not appear to me to take great angles or tackle well in the open field after the catch. Timmons is substantially better in both regards.

RuthlessBurgher
10-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Oh and if by some chance Woodley does walk in the off season then the draft hound in me says draft UCLA's Akeem Ayers. :lol:

After the Bruce Davis fiasco, if we spend another prime pick on a UCLA DE-to-OLB conversion project, you may find me on a grassy knoll somewhere with a high powered rifle.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-07-2010, 03:43 PM
I think that the answer has to be Timmons.

Woodley is very good, but we have had many players over the years who can bring similar attributes to the table. I think that getting close to his production is quite replaceable.

I can't think of any previous ILB who brings the same skillset to the table as Timmons. I'm not saying that he is or will be the best, but he can do things that nobody before him can at the position.

Dee Dub
10-07-2010, 07:43 PM
Oh and if by some chance Woodley does walk in the off season then the draft hound in me says draft UCLA's Akeem Ayers. :lol:

After the Bruce Davis fiasco, if we spend another prime pick on a UCLA DE-to-OLB conversion project, you may find me on a grassy knoll somewhere with a high powered rifle.

I hear what you are saying..but Ayers is the real deal. Blue chipper. And isnt the tweener type. He is actually playing LB. Davis played DE and they tried to convert him. Oh and he was a late 3rd round pick. Ayers is top 15.

Discipline of Steel
10-07-2010, 08:20 PM
I think Timmons will be a top player at his position for longer. With that said, why are several posters counting on James Harrison to move out and create the cap room? He is a leader at the top of his game, no contract options in the near future, and an early candidate for DPOY...again. He intimidates our opponents. I enjoy having Harrison on the team, and in no way look forward to the day when he finally shuts it down.

feltdizz
10-07-2010, 08:34 PM
I think Timmons will be a top player at his position for longer. With that said, why are several posters counting on James Harrison to move out and create the cap room? He is a leader at the top of his game, no contract options in the near future, and an early candidate for DPOY...again. He intimidates our opponents. I enjoy having Harrison on the team, and in no way look forward to the day when he finally shuts it down.

he is still playing at a high level. I think his age gives the impression he will fall off sometime soon. I think he has a good 5 to 7 years left before he starts to decline.

Captain Lemming
10-08-2010, 01:32 AM
yeah. the future is woodley, timmons, stevenson and worilds/gibson. the transition will be seamless when farrior and harrison move on. it's called The LeBolbert machine. and it never fails.

Nobody can truly replace Harrison.
Because of his late start history will not recognize it, but he is the best 3/4 we have ever had and he is much better that's his league peers.

100 plus tackles and 15 plus sacks in a season. Greg Lloyd and Kevin Greene rolled into one package of scary.

That its rare stuff, people LT in his prime type numbers. IMO in all of history, only LT could bring what Harrison brings to our defense.

Oviedo
10-08-2010, 08:16 AM
I think Timmons will be a top player at his position for longer. With that said, why are several posters counting on James Harrison to move out and create the cap room? He is a leader at the top of his game, no contract options in the near future, and an early candidate for DPOY...again. He intimidates our opponents. I enjoy having Harrison on the team, and in no way look forward to the day when he finally shuts it down.

he is still playing at a high level. I think his age gives the impression he will fall off sometime soon. I think he has a good 5 to 7 years left before he starts to decline.

I really like Harrison, but don't think there is anyway that he is still playing 5 years from now. He has about another good 2-3 years which would coincide with when we need to resign Timmons.

feltdizz
10-08-2010, 09:12 AM
I think Timmons will be a top player at his position for longer. With that said, why are several posters counting on James Harrison to move out and create the cap room? He is a leader at the top of his game, no contract options in the near future, and an early candidate for DPOY...again. He intimidates our opponents. I enjoy having Harrison on the team, and in no way look forward to the day when he finally shuts it down.

he is still playing at a high level. I think his age gives the impression he will fall off sometime soon. I think he has a good 5 to 7 years left before he starts to decline.

I really like Harrison, but don't think there is anyway that he is still playing 5 years from now. He has about another good 2-3 years which would coincide with when we need to resign Timmons.

He has only played about 4 full seasons as a starter... minimal wear and tear on his body as well. No reason why he can't put another 5 in at a high level.

Oviedo
10-08-2010, 10:08 AM
I think Timmons will be a top player at his position for longer. With that said, why are several posters counting on James Harrison to move out and create the cap room? He is a leader at the top of his game, no contract options in the near future, and an early candidate for DPOY...again. He intimidates our opponents. I enjoy having Harrison on the team, and in no way look forward to the day when he finally shuts it down.

he is still playing at a high level. I think his age gives the impression he will fall off sometime soon. I think he has a good 5 to 7 years left before he starts to decline.

I really like Harrison, but don't think there is anyway that he is still playing 5 years from now. He has about another good 2-3 years which would coincide with when we need to resign Timmons.

He has only played about 4 full seasons as a starter... minimal wear and tear on his body as well. No reason why he can't put another 5 in at a high level.

His style of play and what the league allows OTs to do to him will age him faster than normal. Once Harrison is about 34 it will be time to move on. Either Worilds or Gibson should be ready to step into full time duty by then.

It will be interesting to see how our LB corps evolves over the next couple of years.

Got to figure that this will be Farrior's last season. Foote will probably be able to be replaced after 2011. Not sure about Fox.

Got tough contracts coming up with Woodely and Timmons as both will be able to demand top dollar.

NJ-STEELER
10-08-2010, 10:02 PM
wow, i'm surprised at how many answered timmons.

i think its woodely and its not even close. i'm not trying to downplay timmons , but i think ILB is much easier to find then a consistent outside rusher that we have in wood.

remember our defenses when we had porter, who could get to the QB almost as consistently as the 2 we have now, and the other side was non existent with haggans? they were OK defenses but never dominating like we've seen in 08 and now.

being able to get pressure from 4 guys help this defense tremendously, as mentioned in the years before these two, we often had to sell out to get to the QB and that left us vulnerable to a deep pass (04 AFCC)

dont forget those teams also had a tremendous inside backer in farrior, who IIRC, was signed off the scrap heap

williar
10-08-2010, 10:19 PM
If I had to do that deal today, I'm giving my money to Timmons. I love them both and hope we can keep 'em in tact, however Timmons is more of a playmaker. He has those freakish qualities. He was slower coming along but his upside is still in the making. Woodley disappears too often when we need him most. Woodley is going to want big time money but he has yet to show he is a consistent, elite, pass rusher.

frankthetank1
10-09-2010, 09:44 AM
in the atlanta game woodley had an int and a sack so i wouldnt say he is off to a slow start. woodley does seem to be pretty streaky though. i would take woodley. i think its easier to find a MLB to play in this defense then it is to play OLB. there aren't many OLB's that rush the qb as well as woodley does. i dont see why they both cant be re-signed but if i had to chose i would take woodley.

Djfan
10-09-2010, 11:04 AM
I always laugh when I hear the Harrison is young at his age. Doesn't anyone remember that he played all those years he was not on any NFL starting line up? Yes, it was much less, but he was driving that engine hard to prove what he had. He has miles on those tires.

That being said, I think he still has a lot to offer, but five years is a stretch IMO.

He will be gone long before Woodly or Timmons have a career exit. Try to keep them both.

RuthlessBurgher
10-09-2010, 01:41 PM
Woodley is going to want big time money but he has yet to show he is a consistent, elite, pass rusher.

:shock:

In his two full seasons as a starter (2008-2009), he has amassed 25 sacks (plus another 4 during his rookie year when he was a back-up and 2 so far this season). And that is not even counting the 8 sacks he has amassed in the 4 post-season games he has played in (talk about CLUTCH...he's the only guy in NFL history to get 2 sacks in each of his first 4 playoff games). So in 52 total NFL games played (38 of which were starts in the regular season and post-season combined), he has 39 total sacks. That's a pretty d@mn impressive pass rusher to me.

The only other 3-4 OLB in the same stratosphere as Woodley during the 2008-2009 seasons (25 sacks) were DeMarcus Ware (31 sacks), Joey Porter (26.5 sacks), James Harrison (26 sacks), and Elvis Dumervil (22 sacks). That's elite company.

NJ-STEELER
10-09-2010, 01:55 PM
Woodley is going to want big time money but he has yet to show he is a consistent, elite, pass rusher.

:shock:

ny.

i cant second that emoicon enuff

some of the arguments against him are just false. 1 move (bull rush)??

he has more then that. and harrison on the other side seems to do well with 1 move.

also, if there's a RB or TE blocking him.... woodley gets the sack. i've yet to see that from timmons, who was picked up on the game winning TD pass by flacco...again not trying to bring down timmonm's play. but, in four years woodleuy has accomplished 3 times as much