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Oviedo
10-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Whisenhunt has totally screwed up the QB situation in Arizona and now we can see that a big part of his success was all Kurt Warner. The Cardinals are an absolute mess and Whis didn't have to deal with anything like what Tomlin has had to deal with the first four games. Never doubt the Rooney's when it comes to hiring a coach. Kind of puts the reported tension between Ben and Whis into perspective.


UPDATE: During his Monday press conference, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was unsurprisingly asked about his situation at QB. Jokingly -- we think -- Whisenhunt replied, "I think we're going to go without one this week ... all Wildcat."

Larry Fitzgerald's fantasy owners -- and maybe Fitzgerald himself -- don't think Whisenhunt is very funny.

---

The seemingly inevitable outcome -- at least to some in the audience -- finally occurred during the Arizona Cardinals' blowout loss to the San Diego Chargers Sunday: Derek Anderson found himself on the bench, with rookie Max Hall taking over. But will that lineup stick?

Following the game, Whisenhunt indicated that he would watch the game film before making his call, so as to avoid an emotional decision, per Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com.

One must wonder at this point whether the team made the right call in not pursuing a trade for Donovan McNabb more fervently this past offseason. While the Cards' struggles weren't limited to Anderson's play -- the defense did give up nearly a quarter-mile of total yards to the Bolts -- a leader like McNabb can inspire greatness and demand accountability in his teammates.

Kid
10-05-2010, 11:08 AM
Whisenhunt has totally screwed up the QB situation in Arizona and now we can see that a big part of his success was all Kurt Warner. The Cardinals are an absolute mess and Whis didn't have to deal with anything like what Tomlin has had to deal with the first four games. Never doubt the Rooney's when it comes to hiring a coach. Kind of puts the reported tension between Ben and Whis into perspective.


UPDATE: During his Monday press conference, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was unsurprisingly asked about his situation at QB. Jokingly -- we think -- Whisenhunt replied, "I think we're going to go without one this week ... all Wildcat."

Larry Fitzgerald's fantasy owners -- and maybe Fitzgerald himself -- don't think Whisenhunt is very funny.



---

The seemingly inevitable outcome -- at least to some in the audience -- finally occurred during the Arizona Cardinals' blowout loss to the San Diego Chargers Sunday: Derek Anderson found himself on the bench, with rookie Max Hall taking over. But will that lineup stick?

Following the game, Whisenhunt indicated that he would watch the game film before making his call, so as to avoid an emotional decision, per Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com.

One must wonder at this point whether the team made the right call in not pursuing a trade for Donovan McNabb more fervently this past offseason. While the Cards' struggles weren't limited to Anderson's play -- the defense did give up nearly a quarter-mile of total yards to the Bolts -- a leader like McNabb can inspire greatness and demand accountability in his teammates.




so you're telling me that if the 2 coaches switched teams that tomlin would have succeeded in zona and whiz failed in pitt? :wft

feltdizz
10-05-2010, 11:10 AM
Whisenhunt has totally screwed up the QB situation in Arizona and now we can see that a big part of his success was all Kurt Warner. The Cardinals are an absolute mess and Whis didn't have to deal with anything like what Tomlin has had to deal with the first four games. Never doubt the Rooney's when it comes to hiring a coach. Kind of puts the reported tension between Ben and Whis into perspective.


UPDATE: During his Monday press conference, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was unsurprisingly asked about his situation at QB. Jokingly -- we think -- Whisenhunt replied, "I think we're going to go without one this week ... all Wildcat."

Larry Fitzgerald's fantasy owners -- and maybe Fitzgerald himself -- don't think Whisenhunt is very funny.

---

The seemingly inevitable outcome -- at least to some in the audience -- finally occurred during the Arizona Cardinals' blowout loss to the San Diego Chargers Sunday: Derek Anderson found himself on the bench, with rookie Max Hall taking over. But will that lineup stick?

Following the game, Whisenhunt indicated that he would watch the game film before making his call, so as to avoid an emotional decision, per Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com.

One must wonder at this point whether the team made the right call in not pursuing a trade for Donovan McNabb more fervently this past offseason. While the Cards' struggles weren't limited to Anderson's play -- the defense did give up nearly a quarter-mile of total yards to the Bolts -- a leader like McNabb can inspire greatness and demand accountability in his teammates.



not sure about the accountability part....

anyway. The problem with Whiz is his love of Steeler vets. We usually let vets go for a good reason. AZ isn't Pittsburgh and it's time for Whiz to embrace the West and go get some real players.

Is Whiz the GM? Who in their right mind would go with Derek Anderson for a whole year? Qb's can make or break your team if you don't have a good D. We won in spite of our QB play... I'm glad we didn't pick Whiz and his great OC play calling.

feltdizz
10-05-2010, 11:14 AM
Whisenhunt has totally screwed up the QB situation in Arizona and now we can see that a big part of his success was all Kurt Warner. The Cardinals are an absolute mess and Whis didn't have to deal with anything like what Tomlin has had to deal with the first four games. Never doubt the Rooney's when it comes to hiring a coach. Kind of puts the reported tension between Ben and Whis into perspective.


UPDATE: During his Monday press conference, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was unsurprisingly asked about his situation at QB. Jokingly -- we think -- Whisenhunt replied, "I think we're going to go without one this week ... all Wildcat."

Larry Fitzgerald's fantasy owners -- and maybe Fitzgerald himself -- don't think Whisenhunt is very funny.



---

The seemingly inevitable outcome -- at least to some in the audience -- finally occurred during the Arizona Cardinals' blowout loss to the San Diego Chargers Sunday: Derek Anderson found himself on the bench, with rookie Max Hall taking over. But will that lineup stick?

Following the game, Whisenhunt indicated that he would watch the game film before making his call, so as to avoid an emotional decision, per Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com.

One must wonder at this point whether the team made the right call in not pursuing a trade for Donovan McNabb more fervently this past offseason. While the Cards' struggles weren't limited to Anderson's play -- the defense did give up nearly a quarter-mile of total yards to the Bolts -- a leader like McNabb can inspire greatness and demand accountability in his teammates.




so you're telling me that if the 2 coaches switched teams that tomlin would have succeeded in zona and whiz failed in pitt? :wft

Maybe.. but I doubt it. However you have to wonder about Whiz's handling of the QB position after Kurt announced his retirement.

Sounds like Whiz has made some important decision's based on emotion. This is what makes Tomlin great IMO... while he did go overboard with the unleash hell comment I think his X's and O's and decisions are grounded.

papillon
10-05-2010, 11:15 AM
Whisenhunt has totally screwed up the QB situation in Arizona and now we can see that a big part of his success was all Kurt Warner. The Cardinals are an absolute mess and Whis didn't have to deal with anything like what Tomlin has had to deal with the first four games. Never doubt the Rooney's when it comes to hiring a coach. Kind of puts the reported tension between Ben and Whis into perspective.


UPDATE: During his Monday press conference, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was unsurprisingly asked about his situation at QB. Jokingly -- we think -- Whisenhunt replied, "I think we're going to go without one this week ... all Wildcat."

Larry Fitzgerald's fantasy owners -- and maybe Fitzgerald himself -- don't think Whisenhunt is very funny.



---

The seemingly inevitable outcome -- at least to some in the audience -- finally occurred during the Arizona Cardinals' blowout loss to the San Diego Chargers Sunday: Derek Anderson found himself on the bench, with rookie Max Hall taking over. But will that lineup stick?

Following the game, Whisenhunt indicated that he would watch the game film before making his call, so as to avoid an emotional decision, per Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com.

One must wonder at this point whether the team made the right call in not pursuing a trade for Donovan McNabb more fervently this past offseason. While the Cards' struggles weren't limited to Anderson's play -- the defense did give up nearly a quarter-mile of total yards to the Bolts -- a leader like McNabb can inspire greatness and demand accountability in his teammates.




so you're telling me that if the 2 coaches switched teams that tomlin would have succeeded in zona and whiz failed in pitt? :wft

No, I think what he's saying is that Tomlin wouldn't have mucked up the quarterback situation to the point where you may be starting Max Hall (who?) in your next game. The Steelers are and were more talented than the Cardinals. But, Whiz and his staff have mucked up the quarterback situation to the Nth degree.

Pappy

grotonsteel
10-05-2010, 11:20 AM
It seems Whiz can't handle players properly. He could not get along with Ben and neither with Matt.

Whiz even with Kurt Warner has pretty ordinary regular season record in pathetic NFC West.

Another great decision by Dan Rooney to select Tomlin over Whiz.

steelblood
10-05-2010, 11:22 AM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona. Getting that team to the Super Bowl was quite an accomplishment. It is not exactly his fault that he was left with Leinart after Warner left either. Whiz also doesn't have a quality organization around him either.

I think and hope that Tomlin was the right decision. The players like him and generally play well for him. I believe that Tomlin is sometimes out-coached and is late to make adjustments. But, I think that Tomlin is also a young coach who has shown that he can adapt (perhaps one area in which Whiz is having trouble) his style and methods to get the most out of his players.

grotonsteel
10-05-2010, 11:31 AM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.

steelblood
10-05-2010, 11:42 AM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.

Do you really believe that Arizona had equal talent?

You may have an argument with Fitzgerald and perhaps Docket, but after that and perhaps a wash at Oline, we had the superior team at almost every position, not to mention our defense was lead by LeBeau. And I wouldn't say that our defense was a little more talented either. It was waaaaaaaaaaay better.

Whiz didn't exactly lose the Super Bowl because he was out-coached either. The only reason we won was because Ben and Holmes put on a performance for the ages and Harrison and his convoy made the single greatest defensive play in the history of the NFL.

Again, I like Tomlin, and I'm happy we have him. In the end, I think people will agree that he was the right choice. Still, I have to give Whiz some credit. His team may suck right now, but he has shown that he can put a winner on the field in Arizona (who else has done that?).

Oviedo
10-05-2010, 11:49 AM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.

Do you really believe that Arizona had equal talent?

You may have an argument with Fitzgerald and perhaps Docket, but after that and perhaps a wash at Oline, we had the superior team at almost every position, not to mention our defense was lead by LeBeau. And I wouldn't say that our defense was a little more talented either. It was waaaaaaaaaaay better.

Not sure they had exactly the same level but they were far from having poor talent. They were loaded with very high draft picks (across the board much higher than we ever get to draft in any round). It's not like he inherited the Browns. he took over a very good team which after his Super Bowl appearance has gotten worse on both sides of the ball.

He also has had an easy path from Day one being in the NFC West. That is a guaranteed 5 wins for anyone.

The key point is that he seems to have problems with players. Tomlin seems to be able to get the most out of his without drama. Perhaps an advantage of not being a former player and having a little less ego.

feltdizz
10-05-2010, 11:53 AM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.

Do you really believe that Arizona had equal talent?

You may have an argument with Fitzgerald and perhaps Docket, but after that and perhaps a wash at Oline, we had the superior team at almost every position, not to mention our defense was lead by LeBeau. And I wouldn't say that our defense was a little more talented either. It was waaaaaaaaaaay better.

Whiz gets no sympathy from me...

the talent level he had was 10X better than anything in his division...

he had ample time to replace Warner and waited until the last minute to make a move.

steelblood
10-05-2010, 11:57 AM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.

Do you really believe that Arizona had equal talent?

You may have an argument with Fitzgerald and perhaps Docket, but after that and perhaps a wash at Oline, we had the superior team at almost every position, not to mention our defense was lead by LeBeau. And I wouldn't say that our defense was a little more talented either. It was waaaaaaaaaaay better.

Not sure they had exactly the same level but they were far from having poor talent. They were loaded with very high draft picks (across the board much higher than we ever get to draft in any round). It's not like he inherited the Browns. he took over a very good team which after his Super Bowl appearance has gotten worse on both sides of the ball.

He also has had an easy path from Day one being in the NFC West. That is a guaranteed 5 wins for anyone.

The key point is that he seems to have problems with players. Tomlin seems to be able to get the most out of his without drama. Perhaps an advantage of not being a former player and having a little less ego.

There is no denying that whiz has sucked it up this year. There is also no denying that Tomlin hates the drama.

I didn't know that he had problems with his players down there. I know he and Ben had issues (but so did Ben and Cowher). Can you tell me about his issues with the Zona players other than Leinart?

grotonsteel
10-05-2010, 12:11 PM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.

Do you really believe that Arizona had equal talent?

You may have an argument with Fitzgerald and perhaps Docket, but after that and perhaps a wash at Oline, we had the superior team at almost every position, not to mention our defense was lead by LeBeau. And I wouldn't say that our defense was a little more talented either. It was waaaaaaaaaaay better.

Again I disagree with Whiz doing more with less in Arizona. 8-8,9-7,10-6 in a weak NFC West is not doing more. Tomlin had a 9-7 season and people wanted him fired. Also Whiz did not have a bunch of no ones. Cards had bunch of high draft picks in the team. They maybe bust but still high draft picks in the team.

I would still say Arizona had better talent at O than Steelers when Whiz took over Cards. Defense: Steelers had a huge advantage.

WR - Huge Adv Cards. I would take Fitz/Boldin/Johnson anytime anyday.
O-line - Well they had Levi Brown a top-5 pick/Deuce Lutui - 2nd Rd pick. Infact Cards had invested more in O-line than Steelers.
QB - Kurt Warner is no Derek Anderson of the league for sure.

Adrian Wilson/A Rolle/Dockett/Dansby now these are pretty good players on defense.

feltdizz
10-05-2010, 12:18 PM
While we have a better D.. I think their corners actually catch the ball more than ours do.

Oviedo
10-05-2010, 12:18 PM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona.

I disagree.

Kurt Warner-Larry-A Boldin-B Johnson- Edge/J J Arington on Offense.

Defense: Karlos Dansby,Darnell Dockett,A Rolle.

Its not like Whiz did not have pieces to build on. Infact Whiz has got in trouble with Boldin,Edge and Lienart. Maybe its not the players but the coach.




Do you really believe that Arizona had equal talent?

You may have an argument with Fitzgerald and perhaps Docket, but after that and perhaps a wash at Oline, we had the superior team at almost every position, not to mention our defense was lead by LeBeau. And I wouldn't say that our defense was a little more talented either. It was waaaaaaaaaaay better.

Not sure they had exactly the same level but they were far from having poor talent. They were loaded with very high draft picks (across the board much higher than we ever get to draft in any round). It's not like he inherited the Browns. he took over a very good team which after his Super Bowl appearance has gotten worse on both sides of the ball.

He also has had an easy path from Day one being in the NFC West. That is a guaranteed 5 wins for anyone.

The key point is that he seems to have problems with players. Tomlin seems to be able to get the most out of his without drama. Perhaps an advantage of not being a former player and having a little less ego.

There is no denying that whiz has sucked it up this year. There is also no denying that Tomlin hates the drama.

I didn't know that he had problems with his players down there. I know he and Ben had issues (but so did Ben and Cowher). Can you tell me about his issues with the Zona players other than Leinart?

Issues with Boldin. Issues with Dansby. Can't remember the player but there was also a DB. McFadden seemed to sour on AZ pretty quick. Can't say they are all about Whiz but Whiz made horrible decisions with his QB competition. The guy watched Anderson for how many years when Whiz was coaching here and Anderson was in Cleveland. What the heck was he looking at? Did his ego convince him that he could make Anderson a good or even decent QB?

Plus look at the signings of all the old Steelers. Moray? Haggans? Porter? What the heck were those moves? Any of those players difference makers? All are washed up and over the hill.

I don't think anyone can say that the Cardinals are on the upswing. If anything they probably have several years of poor teams on the horizon and that will have to be said to be happening with guys Whiz has brought in and picked where the Super Bowl teams was very much the previous coach's players as some would argue. :stirpot

RuthlessBurgher
10-05-2010, 12:22 PM
People always say that the only reason that Tomlin wins was because he inherited Cowher's players.

You never hear anyone say that the only reason that Whisenhunt wins was because he inherited Denny Green's players.

Well, now that many of Green's players are leaving (Warner, Boldin, Dansby, Rolle, etc.), Whis's Cards are going into the crapper.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of players chosen during Tomlin's time here that are big time contributors to our current ongoing success (Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall, Wallace, Pouncey, etc.).

Oviedo
10-05-2010, 12:31 PM
People always say that the only reason that Tomlin wins was because he inherited Cowher's players.

You never hear anyone say that the only reason that Whisenhunt wins was because he inherited Denny Green's players.

Well, now that many of Green's players are leaving (Warner, Boldin, Dansby, Rolle, etc.), Whis's Cards are going into the crapper.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of players chosen during Tomlin's time here that are big time contributors to our current ongoing success (Timmons, Woodley, Mendenhall, Wallace, Pouncey, etc.).

I made the same point in my last post. The guys that Whiz is bringing in don't seem to be very good or he can't get them coached up. I've said for a coupole of years that the Cards were all about Warner and that seems to be true.

TallyStiller
10-05-2010, 01:01 PM
To be fair to Whis, I'd surely rather have Dan Rooney as my owner than Bill Bidwill. The Steelers have run a first class organization from top to bottom for a long time, while Arizona has always been cheap. That kind of thing shows up in the scouting department, the willingness of FA's to stay or sign, etc. I agree that I'd rather have Coach T, but the Arizona job is historically a coach killer, one in which Whis has so far done a credible job... although one can certainly speculate that the end is at least distantly in sight for him.

Slapstick
10-05-2010, 01:15 PM
As a player, Whis worked for Joe Gibbs, who won three SBs with three different starting QBs...

The only way that works is if you are a HoF coach...

Whis is not a HoF coach...

RuthlessBurgher
10-05-2010, 01:15 PM
To be fair to Whis, I'd surely rather have Dan Rooney as my owner than Bill Bidwill. The Steelers have run a first class organization from top to bottom for a long time, while Arizona has always been cheap. That kind of thing shows up in the scouting department, the willingness of FA's to stay or sign, etc. I agree that I'd rather have Coach T, but the Arizona job is historically a coach killer, one in which Whis has so far done a credible job... although one can certainly speculate that the end is at least distantly in sight for him.

So would I...which is why it was odd that Whis jumped at Bidwell's offer before allowing the Rooneys to make their decision. The Rooneys didn't pick Tomlin over Whis. Whis jumped at the Cards offer only 10 days after Bill Cowher stepped down in Pittsburgh. That was his choice, and he now he is living with the consequences of coaching for a bona fide cheapskate instead of an owner that may be a cheapskate only in the minds of some uninformed fans...but the Rooneys never skimped when it came to keeping their own good players (Bidwell was not willing to do that with regard to Boldin, Dansby, Rolle...)

anger 82&95
10-05-2010, 01:36 PM
Whisenhunt has totally screwed up the QB situation in Arizona and now we can see that a big part of his success was all Kurt Warner. The Cardinals are an absolute mess and Whis didn't have to deal with anything like what Tomlin has had to deal with the first four games. Never doubt the Rooney's when it comes to hiring a coach. Kind of puts the reported tension between Ben and Whis into perspective.


UPDATE: During his Monday press conference, Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt was unsurprisingly asked about his situation at QB. Jokingly -- we think -- Whisenhunt replied, "I think we're going to go without one this week ... all Wildcat."

Larry Fitzgerald's fantasy owners -- and maybe Fitzgerald himself -- don't think Whisenhunt is very funny.



---

The seemingly inevitable outcome -- at least to some in the audience -- finally occurred during the Arizona Cardinals' blowout loss to the San Diego Chargers Sunday: Derek Anderson found himself on the bench, with rookie Max Hall taking over. But will that lineup stick?

Following the game, Whisenhunt indicated that he would watch the game film before making his call, so as to avoid an emotional decision, per Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com.

One must wonder at this point whether the team made the right call in not pursuing a trade for Donovan McNabb more fervently this past offseason. While the Cards' struggles weren't limited to Anderson's play -- the defense did give up nearly a quarter-mile of total yards to the Bolts -- a leader like McNabb can inspire greatness and demand accountability in his teammates.




so you're telling me that if the 2 coaches switched teams that tomlin would have succeeded in zona and whiz failed in pitt? :wft

No, I think what he's saying is that Tomlin wouldn't have mucked up the quarterback situation to the point where you may be starting Max Hall (who?) in your next game. The Steelers are and were more talented than the Cardinals. But, Whiz and his staff have mucked up the quarterback situation to the Nth degree.

Pappy
Exactly, I doubt Tomlin would allow personal issues to interfere with professional prudence. Wisenhunt allowed his dislike for Lienart to cloud his judgment, now the Cardinals donít have a quarterback.

SteelTorch
10-05-2010, 01:40 PM
It is quite possible that we did. I like Tomlin very much.

But, Whiz has generally done more with less down there in Arizona. Getting that team to the Super Bowl was quite an accomplishment. It is not exactly his fault that he was left with Leinart after Warner left either. Whiz also doesn't have a quality organization around him either.

No, Kurt Warner got that team to the Superbowl. Without Warner, you won't see them getting back to the SB anytime soon.

feltdizz
10-05-2010, 01:47 PM
Leinart was captian check down. I think his preseason stats were like 19 for 23 but he rarely went down field.

His biggest problem was being perceived as a Hollywood wannabe who didn't get along with his teammates.

I think Whiz should have moved Leinart earlier because he knew the kid didn't have it.