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NW Steeler
09-21-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm sure many of you heard him spewing about how Ben is completely replaceable as the Steelers QB based on how they have been playing thru the first two weeks. He went as far to say that he did nothing to win either Super Bowl other than the winning pass in XLIII to Santonio. Unbelievable how no one outside of Steer Nation recognizes that the Steelers never would have sniffed XL without Ben, and he played very well in XLIII as well. I guess he also failed to notice that the Steelers O ranks 31st in the league right now. No matter how dominant our D is, we cannot reach the SB this year without better offensive production, and that starts with Ben back at the helm. Just my 2 cents.

Crash
09-21-2010, 07:03 PM
So a college basketball player is now an NFL expert?

:Blah

SteelHead
09-21-2010, 07:09 PM
Anyone who doubts the greatness that is Ben Roethlisberger either doesn't like the guy or cannot appreciate any other type of quaterbacking besides the Manning/Brees style.

Ben is probably the most unique QB ever.

That's right I said it. No other QB has his combination of , size , strength, escapability , accuracy , poise and arm strength. Not to mention his otherworldly ability to win when the game is on the line and stay as cool as the other side of the pillow while doing it.

I fully expect Ben to hit the field come October 17th, with a VENGEANCE !!!!

Show 'em how it's done #7 , BIG BEN STYLE BABY !!!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/don_banks/02/02/steelers/steelers-celebration.jpg

Crash
09-21-2010, 07:17 PM
Drew Brees is so overrated its sickening. This is the same guy who was benched for for 40 something Doug Flutie, and was so bad at the Chargers wanted to replace him at age 25.

But now that he dumps the ball off short all season he's great? Spare me.

SteelHead
09-21-2010, 07:44 PM
Drew Brees is so overrated its sickening. This is the same guy who was benched for for 40 something Doug Flutie, and was so bad at the Chargers wanted to replace him at age 25.

But now that he dumps the ball off short all season he's great? Spare me.

You couldn't be more wrong. Brees is a fantastic QB.

I think if you polled every D coordinator in the league they'd tell you the same.

virgilbosetti
09-21-2010, 07:50 PM
Brees is a great QB imo. Despite being small for a QB he has every throw in his arsenal. He's also succeeded in two separate offenses with diff. personnel. I think he's the glue that holds that entire team together.

If anything, I'd compare him and Ben in the sense that they do so much for “their” team.....and without Brees, the Saints don't win the SB. Same could be said for Ben/Steelers.

Not trying to persuade anyone....just my opinion.

proudpittsburgher
09-21-2010, 07:55 PM
about Brees: As much as I like Marty Schottenheimer as a coach, he totally mishandled Drew Brees in San Diego. Brees could throw two TDs, but as soon as he made a bad throw, Marty wanted to give him the hook. Drew Brees is a very talented QB. So is Ben, and I would take Ben every day of the week, even over Manning.

About Gotleib: My wife actually called me on the phone and held it up to the radio. She wanted to reach through and punch Gotleib in the face for being so ignorant. And that is exactly what it was, ignorant. Even Steeler hater Colin Cowherd would tell doug he was being idiotic. In fact, I am pretty sure 9 out of 10 sports talking heads would say he was being an idiot. And, FWIW, he slobbers all over Phillip Rivers. I liked Gotleib at one time, but he has just turned into a smarmy douchbag.

Flasteel
09-21-2010, 08:04 PM
Anyone who doubts the greatness that is Ben Roethlisberger either doesn't like the guy or cannot appreciate any other type of quaterbacking besides the Manning/Brees style.

Ben is probably the most unique QB ever.

That's right I said it. No other QB has his combination of , size , strength, escapability , accuracy , poise and arm strength. Not to mention his otherworldly ability to win when the game is on the line and stay as cool as the other side of the pillow while doing it.

I fully expect Ben to hit the field come October 17th, with a VENGEANCE !!!!

Show 'em how it's done #7 , BIG BEN STYLE BABY !!!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/don_banks/02/02/steelers/steelers-celebration.jpg

You DO know your football!! :lol:

People who don't know about Ben...will know.

proudpittsburgher
09-21-2010, 08:09 PM
Anyone who doubts the greatness that is Ben Roethlisberger either doesn't like the guy or cannot appreciate any other type of quaterbacking besides the Manning/Brees style.

Ben is probably the most unique QB ever.

That's right I said it. No other QB has his combination of , size , strength, escapability , accuracy , poise and arm strength. Not to mention his otherworldly ability to win when the game is on the line and stay as cool as the other side of the pillow while doing it.

I fully expect Ben to hit the field come October 17th, with a VENGEANCE !!!!

Show 'em how it's done #7 , BIG BEN STYLE BABY !!!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/don_banks/02/02/steelers/steelers-celebration.jpg

You DO know your football!! :lol:

People who don't know about Ben...will know.

Ben isn't afraid to throw it in people's faces on the national stage . . . he called out all the o-line detracters after the SB when he praised his O-line . . . "Who's laughin' now, o-line". It's what I love about him, and I really, really hope he gets the chance to do it again. As much as I question his actions of this past summer, I think he embodies the emotion that many of us feel.

JTP53609
09-21-2010, 08:25 PM
well ben did play terrible in the three playoff games before sb40...oh wait, he outplayed palmer/kitna-manning- and plummer, but he sucks, and any qb can go 90 yds in a 2 minute drive in the super bowl, no big deal, besides we all know that that drive was because the reciever ran after they caught it, so he should be subtracted some yards...Right guys???,

what is thd difference between orton and big ben??? nothing, they each have the same track record :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

winwithd
09-21-2010, 08:40 PM
I heard Gottlieb also. I think he knows how many Steeler fans are out and that saying something outrageous like that would get a lot of people talking about his show. I can't believe he was totally serious. However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs. I think Brees is good though. But he also doesn't get hit much. I'd like to see his numbers compared to Ben's if he were getting sacked 50 times a year.

SteelHead
09-21-2010, 08:43 PM
Anyone who doubts the greatness that is Ben Roethlisberger either doesn't like the guy or cannot appreciate any other type of quaterbacking besides the Manning/Brees style.

Ben is probably the most unique QB ever.

That's right I said it. No other QB has his combination of , size , strength, escapability , accuracy , poise and arm strength. Not to mention his otherworldly ability to win when the game is on the line and stay as cool as the other side of the pillow while doing it.

I fully expect Ben to hit the field come October 17th, with a VENGEANCE !!!!

Show 'em how it's done #7 , BIG BEN STYLE BABY !!!

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/don_banks/02/02/steelers/steelers-celebration.jpg

You DO know your football!! :lol:

People who don't know about Ben...will know.

There we go Flasteel !!! I thread we agree on !!!

Ben is the man.....PERIOD.

:tt2

Crash
09-21-2010, 09:14 PM
What pisses me off is no one calls out Peyton for his miserable 2006 post season the year he got his ring.

Look at his game log, then compare Ben's 2005 in the same situation.

Not even close.

steelblood
09-21-2010, 11:00 PM
Doug Gottlieb? Never heard of him.

I think we need to stop getting excited when some blowhard that needs to get noticed starts thumping his chest and spewing nonsense. Plenty of national sports writers realize Ben's talent and impact on the team. Clayton and the fat dude on PTI go out of their way to talk about his clutch play and comeback wins.

Captain Lemming
09-21-2010, 11:28 PM
What pisses me off is no one calls out Peyton for his miserable 2006 post season the year he got his ring.

Look at his game log, then compare Ben's 2005 in the same situation.

Not even close.

So very true.
The whole "got the monkey off his back" is ridiculous.
He is still choker ultimate.

Dude was terrible in that SB run.

Save for one game (NE, and even THAT game he started horrible) run game and defense got his ring. Just what they say about Ben.

Ben has NEVER had the playoff run game Indy had that year.

They saved him, and a pathetic Bears team made it easy.

Peyton is a choker without peer, showed it AGAIN last year.

RuthlessBurgher
09-22-2010, 02:11 AM
Brees is an excellent QB in his system (in much the same way that Kurt Warner was an excellent QB in his system), but put them in the wrong system, and they will struggle.

Phil Rivers reminds me so much of Ryan Leaf in his outbursts, body language, tantrums, etc. that it is scary. They even look like to me. He just manages to put up numbers, which Leaf couldn't do. But he's not a winner. Never will be.

Peyton is the best regular season stats accumulator of all time. But he is not clutch at all. In the perfect environment, he thrives. Under pressure, he wilts.

Oviedo
09-22-2010, 08:30 AM
Gottlieb was just trying to stir things up. He is a pretty smart guy and would not just say something that stupid. Bottomline is what is said means nothing, what is done means anything.

We get too caught up into who is saying what. "Sticks and stones..."

Eich
09-22-2010, 08:35 AM
Drew Brees is so overrated its sickening. This is the same guy who was benched for for 40 something Doug Flutie, and was so bad at the Chargers wanted to replace him at age 25.

But now that he dumps the ball off short all season he's great? Spare me.

Wow! I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who whole-heartedly agrees with THAT.

Drew Brees is one of the best, if not THE best, QB playing right now. Watching him throw the football is very enjoyable. Fabulous touch on the ball - some of them are thrown so well it feels like the receiver couldn't get out of its way if he wanted to.

That said, I don't there is any QB in the league who possesses the unique skill set that Ben does. He's not the best pure passer in the league but I wouldn't trade him for anyone else, particarly not with the O-line we've had for years. Guys like Brady and Manning would be on permanent IR on our team.

ramblinjim
09-22-2010, 08:55 AM
Drew Brees has a sick deep ball. I find him to be an awfully good quarterback and he seems like a great person.

That being said, my wife and I disagree on Ben all the time. I always ask her "know what Brett Favre has that Ben doesn't.....one less ring! Oh, just like Payton Manning." Then I sleep on the couch.

Ben reminds me of a mature Elway when he was on good teams. He can make every throw, he's clutch, hard to bring down, great leader, etc. The team around Ben has, for the most part, been better than the teams around an early John Elway though.

I have no tolerance for anyone that professes to be an "expert" say Ben is nothing more than a game manager.

sentinel33
09-22-2010, 11:43 AM
cant wait to see the offense come into there own once Ben returns. There has never been a quarterback that has accomplished as much as he has since he came into the league. As unique as they come. the next 5 years are gonna be very special in Pittsburgh. The offensive line will continue to be rebuilt around Pouncey and get better every year while the rest of the young offense grows with each other. And seeing how D. Lebeau is going all Benjamin Button on us with the whole "dont let a number be anything but a number", the defense will always be there. This team will be very hard to beat a month from now. With the lockout looming in the distance and the age of a handful of prominent players on this team who, 2 seasons from now, wont be playing like they are now, there should be a sense of urgency on the team to win the championship this year. I believe this will happen. Roll on Steelers! Roll on Pittsburgh!

Steelers>NFL
09-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Drew Brees is so overrated its sickening. This is the same guy who was benched for for 40 something Doug Flutie, and was so bad at the Chargers wanted to replace him at age 25.

But now that he dumps the ball off short all season he's great? Spare me.

You couldn't be more wrong. Brees is a fantastic QB.

I think if you polled every D coordinator in the league they'd tell you the same.

Drew Brees is a great QB! Not sure where that comment came from.

ikestops85
09-22-2010, 12:22 PM
I gotta agree about Brees. He is an excellent QB and would be in almost any system. Manning and Brady are also excellent QBs with Rodgers about to move on to that tier. Rivers is a very good QB but I think his tempermant will prevent him from achieving greatness.

I have no problem giving other QBs their props. In my mind that does nothing to belittle Ben. Ben is not as accurate as some of those guys ... he's also not as quick reading defenses as some ... he certainly takes more sacks than some ... BUT

Ben is a Winner

It's hard to put your finger on it but the guy does what he has to do to win. He makes plays when he has to. He is a leader on the field. His O-line would follow him up Hamburger Hill if he asked them to. There may be better technical QBs in the league but I don't believe there is a better all-around QB playing in the league today.

I'll take Ben any day, any time over any of the others. JMHO

:tt2

phillyesq
09-22-2010, 12:28 PM
Doug Gottlieb? Never heard of him.

I think we need to stop getting excited when some blowhard that needs to get noticed starts thumping his chest and spewing nonsense. Plenty of national sports writers realize Ben's talent and impact on the team. Clayton and the fat dude on PTI go out of their way to talk about his clutch play and comeback wins.

:Agree

My first thought on seeing this: who the eff is Doug Gottlieb?

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 12:34 PM
Doug Gottlieb? Never heard of him.

I think we need to stop getting excited when some blowhard that needs to get noticed starts thumping his chest and spewing nonsense. Plenty of national sports writers realize Ben's talent and impact on the team. Clayton and the fat dude on PTI go out of their way to talk about his clutch play and comeback wins.

:Agree

My first thought on seeing this: who the eff is Doug Gottlieb?

me too... these guys know what they are doing.

papillon
09-22-2010, 12:37 PM
Brees is an excellent QB in his system (in much the same way that Kurt Warner was an excellent QB in his system), but put them in the wrong system, and they will struggle.

Phil Rivers reminds me so much of Ryan Leaf in his outbursts, body language, tantrums, etc. that it is scary. They even look like to me. He just manages to put up numbers, which Leaf couldn't do. But he's not a winner. Never will be.

Peyton is the best regular season stats accumulator of all time. But he is not clutch at all. In the perfect environment, he thrives. Under pressure, he wilts.


I'd have to give Dan Marino "The best All-time regular season stats accumulator" title.

Pappy

anger 82&95
09-22-2010, 12:42 PM
Seven first downs and only one via the pass… Yea, who needs Roethlisberger when the Steelers are such an offensive juggernaut???

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-22-2010, 12:47 PM
However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs.

Most overrated QB in the league.

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 12:53 PM
However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs.

Most overrated QB in the league.

Romo... by a mile. I'm not a fan of Rivers but he isn't over rated IMO.

His tantrums lately are exposing a weak mind IMO.

ikestops85
09-22-2010, 01:06 PM
However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs.

Most overrated QB in the league.

Romo... by a mile. I'm not a fan of Rivers but he isn't over rated IMO.

His tantrums lately are exposing a weak mind IMO.

I have to go with Eli as the most over-rated with Romo being a close second.

JTP53609
09-22-2010, 01:11 PM
Seven first downs and only one via the pass… Yea, who needs Roethlisberger when the Steelers are such an offensive juggernaut???

they look like they are playing offense with jugs and not nuts....

phillyesq
09-22-2010, 01:34 PM
However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs.

Most overrated QB in the league.

Romo... by a mile. I'm not a fan of Rivers but he isn't over rated IMO.

His tantrums lately are exposing a weak mind IMO.

I have to go with Eli as the most over-rated with Romo being a close second.

Eli is absolutely overrated, based almost purely on name.

Romo is a poor man's Peyton Manning in that he is also able to rack up regular season stats, but doesn't do much in the postseason. Obviously, Romo is a much worse postseason qb, and while he is a fine fantasy football qb, he is far from being a great nfl qb.

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 02:02 PM
I have never heard a word about Eli being anything special outside of his 4th down miracle completion. Pundits never say "watch out for Eli and the Giants" LOL...

He won a SB and defeated the *'s... how is he over rated? Who has him high on the elite QB list?

brothervad
09-22-2010, 02:20 PM
All,

Not to be a stick in the mud, but honestly is there a QB not named Rothlisberger out there that most of you don't think is overrated?

I am a diehard Steeler fan but I think Brady, P. Manning are great QB's...

brothervad

papillon
09-22-2010, 02:33 PM
All,

Not to be a stick in the mud, but honestly is there a QB not named Rothlisberger out there that most of you don't think is overrated?

I am a diehard Steeler fan but I think Brady, P. Manning are great QB's...

brothervad

Brees, Rivers and Rodgers are very good quarterbacks as well.

Shaub, Romo, Manning (Eli), McNabb, Palmer, Cutler are good quarterbacks

There are some young quarterbacks that look to have the right stuff, but it remains to be seen: Flacco, Sanchez, Stafford, Bradford, Cassel, Ryan, Smith (Alex) and maybe one or two I missed.

The rest are probably backups holding down a starting job until the team can find a #1 quarterback. Anderson, Kolb, Freeman, Delhomme, Hasselback, Orton, etc

Not sure where to put Vick, but it looks like he's making a come back. It will be interesting to see how he plays when he faces a good defense. His passer rating with only 4 players rushing was over 100, but once the defense sent 5 or more his rating dropped to the low 80s.

Pappy

Relentless7
09-22-2010, 05:57 PM
about Brees: As much as I like Marty Schottenheimer as a coach, he totally mishandled Drew Brees in San Diego. Brees could throw two TDs, but as soon as he made a bad throw, Marty wanted to give him the hook. Drew Brees is a very talented QB. So is Ben, and I would take Ben every day of the week, even over Manning.

About Gotleib: My wife actually called me on the phone and held it up to the radio. She wanted to reach through and punch Gotleib in the face for being so ignorant. And that is exactly what it was, ignorant. Even Steeler hater Colin Cowherd would tell doug he was being idiotic. In fact, I am pretty sure 9 out of 10 sports talking heads would say he was being an idiot. And, FWIW, he slobbers all over Phillip Rivers. I liked Gotleib at one time, but he has just turned into a smarmy douchbag.

Not to jump all over you for one throwaway comment in you post... but I have NO idea how you can term Cowherd as a "Steeler Hater". He CONSTANTLY bangs the drum about Ben being in the "top 3" QB's in the league. Three weeks ago he went OFF on a caller who said Ben was over rated and why are people making a big deal about him not being there the first 4 weeks. And it was Monday he called the Steelers the best team in the AFC. There is A LOT of "anti- Steeler" sentiment among the national media. But Cowherd is not one of those.

NW Steeler
09-22-2010, 06:53 PM
about Brees: As much as I like Marty Schottenheimer as a coach, he totally mishandled Drew Brees in San Diego. Brees could throw two TDs, but as soon as he made a bad throw, Marty wanted to give him the hook. Drew Brees is a very talented QB. So is Ben, and I would take Ben every day of the week, even over Manning.

About Gotleib: My wife actually called me on the phone and held it up to the radio. She wanted to reach through and punch Gotleib in the face for being so ignorant. And that is exactly what it was, ignorant. Even Steeler hater Colin Cowherd would tell doug he was being idiotic. In fact, I am pretty sure 9 out of 10 sports talking heads would say he was being an idiot. And, FWIW, he slobbers all over Phillip Rivers. I liked Gotleib at one time, but he has just turned into a smarmy douchbag.

Not to jump all over you for one throwaway comment in you post... but I have NO idea how you can term Cowherd as a "Steeler Hater". He CONSTANTLY bangs the drum about Ben being in the "top 3" QB's in the league. Three weeks ago he went OFF on a caller who said Ben was over rated and why are people making a big deal about him not being there the first 4 weeks. And it was Monday he called the Steelers the best team in the AFC. There is A LOT of "anti- Steeler" sentiment among the national media. But Cowherd is not one of those.

Cowherd does say good things about Ben. But he also went on about the refs giving the Steelers SB XL for at least a year afterwards.

birtikidis
09-23-2010, 01:46 AM
What pisses me off is no one calls out Peyton for his miserable 2006 post season the year he got his ring.

Look at his game log, then compare Ben's 2005 in the same situation.

Not even close.
not only were the stats bad, but he was just plain miserable. if his d hadn't stepped up the way they did... no way does he make it.
wasn't that the year that they had the worst run d in the NFL and were a wall in the playoffs?

proudpittsburgher
09-23-2010, 05:58 AM
about Brees: As much as I like Marty Schottenheimer as a coach, he totally mishandled Drew Brees in San Diego. Brees could throw two TDs, but as soon as he made a bad throw, Marty wanted to give him the hook. Drew Brees is a very talented QB. So is Ben, and I would take Ben every day of the week, even over Manning.

About Gotleib: My wife actually called me on the phone and held it up to the radio. She wanted to reach through and punch Gotleib in the face for being so ignorant. And that is exactly what it was, ignorant. Even Steeler hater Colin Cowherd would tell doug he was being idiotic. In fact, I am pretty sure 9 out of 10 sports talking heads would say he was being an idiot. And, FWIW, he slobbers all over Phillip Rivers. I liked Gotleib at one time, but he has just turned into a smarmy douchbag.

Not to jump all over you for one throwaway comment in you post... but I have NO idea how you can term Cowherd as a "Steeler Hater". He CONSTANTLY bangs the drum about Ben being in the "top 3" QB's in the league. Three weeks ago he went OFF on a caller who said Ben was over rated and why are people making a big deal about him not being there the first 4 weeks. And it was Monday he called the Steelers the best team in the AFC. There is A LOT of "anti- Steeler" sentiment among the national media. But Cowherd is not one of those.

Just because Cowher gives the Steelers a little love doesn't mean he isn't a hater. He has consistentl;y banged on this team for years, especially after Super Bowl XL. He went on, and on, and on about it to the point where he said he wasn't going to refer to them as the super bowl champions, rather give the title back to the previous owners . . . the Pats*. But, give him credit, he does it because he knows it is going to bring ratings . .. bang on the biggest fanbase in the NFL, an dgood or bad, you get publicity.

SteelCrazy
09-23-2010, 09:03 AM
God, I have missed Ben! That other group of men on the field people are calling an offense looks utterly hopeless, but if you insert Ben into the mix it becomes a top 5 O in the league. Peyton Manning wouldnt be able to improve this O by much, nor would Brees, Rivers, or Brady.

A lot of times, as fans, we overrate players and their abilities just because they are on our favorite team. However, in this case, Ben isn't overrated, he is underrated and under appreciated. When he comes in this season and turns our offense around, maybe he will get exactly what he deserves. A 3rd ring.........

proudpittsburgher
09-23-2010, 09:08 AM
God, I have missed Ben! That other group of men on the field people are calling an offense looks utterly hopeless, but if you insert Ben into the mix it becomes a top 5 O in the league. Peyton Manning wouldnt be able to improve this O by much, nor would Brees, Rivers, or Brady.

A lot of times, as fans, we overrate players and their abilities just because they are on our favorite team. However, in this case, Ben isn't overrated, he is underrated and under appreciated. When he comes in this season and turns our offense around, maybe he will get exactly what he deserves. A 3rd ring.........

:Agree A lot of fans of the organization love to break a player down for his weaknesses, but just watch some of Ben's old games, I have a couple on DVR I like to watch . . . The Packers win and the Super Bowl win . . . some of the throws Ben makes are just tremendous. The throw to Tone on fourth down in the packers game where Ben hung on and hit him on a slant, or the throw to Miller to complete a long third down against the Packers are just a couple. Absolutely, perfect throws. Some of his throws in the Super Bowl win are obvious, but Ben is the best thing to happen to this team in a long, long time. Another game I have on my DVR is a replay of the Tommy Maddox game against the Browns where Fu scored the go-ahead score. Maddox lit it up that season, but he was nothing like Ben. Off target throws, missed reads, etc. I know Ben has his share, but for the most part, he is tremendous. But there will be those of us who still pick apart his weaknesses to try an dmake him a freakin robot out there. No one is perfect, not even Manning who chokes like a dog in the playoffs more often than not. I don't get why peopl elove to break him down like that, but to each their own. Me, I'll appreciate every year we get out of him on the field.

SteelCrazy
09-23-2010, 09:16 AM
God, I have missed Ben! That other group of men on the field people are calling an offense looks utterly hopeless, but if you insert Ben into the mix it becomes a top 5 O in the league. Peyton Manning wouldnt be able to improve this O by much, nor would Brees, Rivers, or Brady.

A lot of times, as fans, we overrate players and their abilities just because they are on our favorite team. However, in this case, Ben isn't overrated, he is underrated and under appreciated. When he comes in this season and turns our offense around, maybe he will get exactly what he deserves. A 3rd ring.........

:Agree A lot of fans of the organization love to break a player down for his weaknesses, but just watch some of Ben's old games, I have a couple on DVR I like to watch . . . The Packers win and the Super Bowl win . . . some of the throws Ben makes are just tremendous. The throw to Tone on fourth down in the packers game where Ben hung on and hit him on a slant, or the throw to Miller to complete a long third down against the Packers are just a couple. Absolutely, perfect throws. Some of his throws in the Super Bowl win are obvious, but Ben is the best thing to happen to this team in a long, long time. Another game I have on my DVR is a replay of the Tommy Maddox game against the Browns where Fu scored the go-ahead score. Maddox lit it up that season, but he was nothing like Ben. Off target throws, missed reads, etc. I know Ben has his share, but for the most part, he is tremendous. But there will be those of us who still pick apart his weaknesses to try an dmake him a freakin robot out there. No one is perfect, not even Manning who chokes like a dog in the playoffs more often than not. I don't get why peopl elove to break him down like that, but to each their own. Me, I'll appreciate every year we get out of him on the field.


And a lot of his throws after he just escaped from the clutches of a defensive demon are a lot of times perfect. I really don't see how people can still knock him or his game.

RuthlessBurgher
09-23-2010, 10:29 AM
All,

Not to be a stick in the mud, but honestly is there a QB not named Rothlisberger out there that most of you don't think is overrated?

I am a diehard Steeler fan but I think Brady, P. Manning are great QB's...

brothervad

Some QB's, like Cutler, Palmer, Tebow, etc. are way overrated.

The hype machine also makes Favre, Romo, and Rivers out to me more than they are...they are solid, but flawed.

Other QB's, like Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Schaub, etc. are underrated. Although, I am not a McNabb fan personally, that guy always seems to be put down, when his career is better than media prototype QB's like Romo and Palmer.

It would be stupid to argue that Peyton, Brady, and Brees aren't great QB's, but they aren't the dieties that the media tends to make them out to be either.

I think Flacco and Sanchez get more hype than they deserve, but I prefer guys like Stafford and Bradford as QB prospects...they just happen to be playing with weaker organizations right now so they don't get all the attention.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-23-2010, 11:14 AM
However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs.

Most overrated QB in the league.

Romo... by a mile. I'm not a fan of Rivers but he isn't over rated IMO.

His tantrums lately are exposing a weak mind IMO.

Rivers isn't overrated?

Like Ben he has had a very good D throughout his career in SD. Not as good, but still a top 5 type D for many years with Merriman leading the way.

Unlike Ben he spent most of his career with the greatest offensive weapon of the last 10 years standig right behind him. Needless to say that LT gave him a much better running game than Ben ever had and the ultimate check down outlet.

Like Ben he has had a good TE his entire career for those times when you want to pass to a reliable third down guy or anytime you want to throw 10-20 yards downfield to a safe option. Unlike Ben's option, Gates is the best TE in the game.

Unlike Ben, Rivers plays 8 home games a year in perfect football weather. Out of 11 games only KC and Denver can potentially be bad weather depending on time of year. The Steelers play in Cleveland, Baltimore, and Cincy. Once November hits any of those can be bad weather games when you include things like rain and wind that just make the conditions not ideal.

Rivers has a career 46-18 W-L record in the regular season but a 3-4 post season record - 29% lower winning percentage.

Ben has a career 60-26 regular season record (despite entering the league at the same time, Rivers had the luxury of sitting and learning behind one of the league's elite QBs, he was not thrust into the position as a rookie). Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs. Despite a similarly stellar winning percentage, Ben raises his game in the playoffs and has won 10% more in the post season. This includes the fact that he was only 50% in his rookie year in the playoffs, although he did take his team further into the playoffs as a rook than any QB before him.

And of course the big one - although I don't think that this is truly the measure of greatness, 2 rings to none is pretty telling.

And after all is said and done, ask an "expert to rank the QBs. Almost every time Rivers will be listed ahead of Ben.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-23-2010, 11:22 AM
I have never heard a word about Eli being anything special outside of his 4th down miracle completion. Pundits never say "watch out for Eli and the Giants" LOL...

He won a SB and defeated the *'s... how is he over rated? Who has him high on the elite QB list?

Agreed felt. I think that he is generally considered to be towards the back of the top ten. That is probably where I would put him too, so IMO he is not overrated.

SteelTorch
09-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Peyton is a choker without peer, showed it AGAIN last year.
Well, I don't know about that. Favre is probably the one QB who has him beat in that area. :lol:

feltdizz
09-23-2010, 12:03 PM
[quote=winwithd]However, if he does actually think Rivers is great maybe he is an idiot. I have never seen anything out of Rivers that impressed me. But maybe that is because I haven't seen him much except when he plays us. I think Rivers is one of the more overrated QBs.

Most overrated QB in the league.

Romo... by a mile. I'm not a fan of Rivers but he isn't over rated IMO.

His tantrums lately are exposing a weak mind IMO.

Rivers isn't overrated?

Like Ben he has had a very good D throughout his career in SD. Not as good, but still a top 5 type D for many years with Merriman leading the way.

disagree... their D was never top 5ish IMO.

Unlike Ben he spent most of his career with the greatest offensive weapon of the last 10 years standig right behind him. Needless to say that LT gave him a much better running game than Ben ever had and the ultimate check down outlet.

LT is the Romo of RB's... please show me one playoff game where LT showed up. Ben also had the best big RB EVER to mentor him when he was drafted. What does Ben have to do with Rivers being over rated or not?

Like Ben he has had a good TE his entire career for those times when you want to pass to a reliable third down guy or anytime you want to throw 10-20 yards downfield to a safe option. Unlike Ben's option, Gates is the best TE in the game.

Gates is not the best TE in the game IMO... and it's not like the DB's had much else to worry about besides Vincent Jackson or the LT checkdown.
What does Ben have to do with Rivers being over rated or not?

Unlike Ben, Rivers plays 8 home games a year in perfect football weather. Out of 11 games only KC and Denver can potentially be bad weather depending on time of year. The Steelers play in Cleveland, Baltimore, and Cincy. Once November hits any of those can be bad weather games when you include things like rain and wind that just make the conditions not ideal.

So what, it's still football and it isn't a dome... Ben is also from Ohio.. he is used to our weather. What does Ben have to do with Rivers being over rated or not?

Rivers has a career 46-18 W-L record in the regular season but a 3-4 post season record - 29% lower winning percentage.

and who is his coach? What does Ben have to do with Rivers being over rated or not?

Ben has a career 60-26 regular season record (despite entering the league at the same time, Rivers had the luxury of sitting and learning behind one of the league's elite QBs, he was not thrust into the position as a rookie). Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs. Despite a similarly stellar winning percentage, Ben raises his game in the playoffs and has won 10% more in the post season. This includes the fact that he was only 50% in his rookie year in the playoffs, although he did take his team further into the playoffs as a rook than any QB before him.

And of course the big one - although I don't think that this is truly the measure of greatness, 2 rings to none is pretty telling.

And after all is said and done, ask an "expert to rank the QBs. Almost every time Rivers will be listed ahead of Ben.

oh.. OK, I was getting worried because I didn't know you were doing a Rivers vs. Ben argument. [/quote:3mqhr028]

I said Rivers isn't over rated... I didn't say he was better than Ben.

I'm not a Rivers fan but I don't think he is over rated. He is a pretty good QB IMO. Not great but definitely not bad.

proudpittsburgher
09-23-2010, 12:22 PM
Peyton is a choker without peer, showed it AGAIN last year.
Well, I don't know about that. Favre is probably the one QB who has him beat in that area. :lol:


Not sure I agree with that. Favre hasn't been as dominant as Peyton has during the regular season (season by season), nor had the offensive team around him that Peyton has, only to watch him wither and die in the first round. With Peyton, he seems to be a completely different QB in the playoffs than he is in the regular season. To me, Favre has always been Favre. Win or lose. It is also maddening that Peyton seems to get a pass by everyone, year after year, for being a choking dog in the playoffs.

papillon
09-23-2010, 12:33 PM
God, I have missed Ben! That other group of men on the field people are calling an offense looks utterly hopeless, but if you insert Ben into the mix it becomes a top 5 O in the league. Peyton Manning wouldnt be able to improve this O by much, nor would Brees, Rivers, or Brady.

A lot of times, as fans, we overrate players and their abilities just because they are on our favorite team. However, in this case, Ben isn't overrated, he is underrated and under appreciated. When he comes in this season and turns our offense around, maybe he will get exactly what he deserves. A 3rd ring.........

I have to disagree that Brees, Rivers or Brady wouldn't improve the offense. If either of those three were the Steelers suspended quarterback we, as fans, would be saying the exact same thing as we are now. I can't wait for (insert quarterback's name) to get off the suspension and back on the field.

Pappy

SteelTorch
09-23-2010, 04:12 PM
Peyton is a choker without peer, showed it AGAIN last year.
Well, I don't know about that. Favre is probably the one QB who has him beat in that area. :lol:


Not sure I agree with that. Favre hasn't been as dominant as Peyton has during the regular season (season by season), nor had the offensive team around him that Peyton has, only to watch him wither and die in the first round. With Peyton, he seems to be a completely different QB in the playoffs than he is in the regular season. To me, Favre has always been Favre. Win or lose. It is also maddening that Peyton seems to get a pass by everyone, year after year, for being a choking dog in the playoffs.
I guess I didn't think of it that way. Favre has never been as consistently dominant in the regular as Manning. I suppose I just thought of Favre as the bigger choke artist since he's been in this league longer, yet still has only one ring to show for it.

However, if you ask me, both QB's get a lot of passes for choking - and Favre gets even more for his off-field antics. :)

SteelCrazy
09-23-2010, 05:13 PM
God, I have missed Ben! That other group of men on the field people are calling an offense looks utterly hopeless, but if you insert Ben into the mix it becomes a top 5 O in the league. Peyton Manning wouldnt be able to improve this O by much, nor would Brees, Rivers, or Brady.

A lot of times, as fans, we overrate players and their abilities just because they are on our favorite team. However, in this case, Ben isn't overrated, he is underrated and under appreciated. When he comes in this season and turns our offense around, maybe he will get exactly what he deserves. A 3rd ring.........

I have to disagree that Brees, Rivers or Brady wouldn't improve the offense. If either of those three were the Steelers suspended quarterback we, as fans, would be saying the exact same thing as we are now. I can't wait for (insert quarterback's name) to get off the suspension and back on the field.

Pappy


I agree and that's why I inserted the word much, meaning they wouldnt be able to bring it to the level Ben does, but would improve it a little over Dixon and Batch. Brees would definitely get closer to Ben.

proudpittsburgher
09-30-2010, 02:31 PM
Just rehashing this thread to see if anyone heard Gotleib's interview with former Falcons coach Jim Mora. Mora basically calls him out for being the idiot that he can be at times. Utter hilarity ensues. My favorite line from Mora . . . "Is this your first interview?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akKjLWG0 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akKjLWG0KG4&feature=player_embedded)

phillyesq
09-30-2010, 02:39 PM
Just rehashing this thread to see if anyone heard Gotleib's interview with former Falcons coach Jim Mora. Mora basically calls him out for being the idiot that he can be at times. Utter hilarity ensues. My favorite line from Mora . . . "Is this your first interview?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akKjLWG0 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akKjLWG0KG4&feature=player_embedded)

While, I still don't know who the eff Doug Gottlieb is, but Jim Mora was hilarious.

NJ-STEELER
09-30-2010, 02:49 PM
the problem with some of these "top" QBs is the slobber they get from the media.

yes, brees is good. but you listen to any of them and they'll have you believe he's the best ever.

there's ways to get to him. his lack of size is 1 factor, and the spreading out of the offense helps him a great deal IMO. when you watch him, you'll notice he makes 5-6 throws a game where the receiver is blanketed but fails to turn around... some are by design, but they could easily turn into INTs.

its like the slobbering brady was getting a few years ago. many here argued that if was pressured the way Ben is.. he wouldn't be putting up a 50 TD season. come the superbowl that year and the giants showed what does happen

feltdizz
09-30-2010, 03:24 PM
the problem with some of these "top" QBs is the slobber they get from the media.

yes, brees is good. but you listen to any of them and they'll have you believe he's the best ever.

there's ways to get to him. his lack of size is 1 factor, and the spreading out of the offense helps him a great deal IMO. when you watch him, you'll notice he makes 5-6 throws a game where the receiver is blanketed but fails to turn around... some are by design, but they could easily turn into INTs.

its like the slobbering brady was getting a few years ago. many here argued that if was pressured the way Ben is.. he wouldn't be putting up a 50 TD season. come the superbowl that year and the giants showed what does happen

Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO. Those passes over the middle with blanket coverage are by design and the reason the DB's are turning around is because they fear the other passes Brees has the ability to throw.

I'm not a Brady fan... it's more of a system than Brady but the guy is great in that system. Say what you like but Brady still drove the *'s down field for the go ahead score when they needed it.

There is room for Ben and a few others on the slobber podium.

Crash
09-30-2010, 04:17 PM
Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO.

So why did they feel the need to replace Brees at age 25?

Boys need to brush up on your history.

NJ-STEELER
09-30-2010, 04:59 PM
the problem with some of these "top" QBs is the slobber they get from the media.

yes, brees is good. but you listen to any of them and they'll have you believe he's the best ever.

there's ways to get to him. his lack of size is 1 factor, and the spreading out of the offense helps him a great deal IMO. when you watch him, you'll notice he makes 5-6 throws a game where the receiver is blanketed but fails to turn around... some are by design, but they could easily turn into INTs.

its like the slobbering brady was getting a few years ago. many here argued that if was pressured the way Ben is.. he wouldn't be putting up a 50 TD season. come the superbowl that year and the giants showed what does happen

Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO. Those passes over the middle with blanket coverage are by design and the reason the DB's are turning around is because they fear the other passes Brees has the ability to throw.

I'm not a Brady fan... it's more of a system than Brady but the guy is great in that system. Say what you like but Brady still drove the *'s down field for the go ahead score when they needed it.

There is room for Ben and a few others on the slobber podium.

i know brees is good, i'm just putting it in prespective.

there's some on the internets that complained about the Game winning throw in SB 43 being triple coverage and that ben was an idiot to try that throw. whats that makes "the best QB eva according to ESPN" and his throws that said right by the ear of defenders

frankthetank1
09-30-2010, 05:09 PM
Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO.

So why did they feel the need to replace Brees at age 25?

Boys need to brush up on your history.

i agree he was really average for a long time but the last 4-6 years he has been amazing. i also remember brees having to have shoulder surgery his last season in SD. miami had interest in signing him and i was really skeptical because it was an average qb having shoulder surgery. the dolphin FO was very wrong and so was i. brees wasnt done at all.

btw why doesnt brees get that rat removed from his face? the guy has millions and wont get rid of it? i think that is odd.

feltdizz
09-30-2010, 06:20 PM
Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO.

So why did they feel the need to replace Brees at age 25?

Boys need to brush up on your history.

You need to brush up on your history fella

Why are you acting like San Diego's FO is full of geniuses?

They also fired a HC after he went 14-2 and lost to the Pats because the DB tried to be a hero.

Brush it up fella.

Crash
09-30-2010, 06:26 PM
You need to brush up on your history fella

Why are you acting like San Diego's FO is full of geniuses?

Bottom line is Brees' play gave them the reason to pursue Eli and then Rivers.

Anyone can play their dink and dunk offense, and the dink and dunk offense he played in San Diego.

He's a good QB, no where near what people think he is.

Hurricane Katrina somehow made Drew Brees a better player.

RuthlessBurgher
09-30-2010, 06:42 PM
Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO.

So why did they feel the need to replace Brees at age 25?

Boys need to brush up on your history.

In 2001, he played in 1 game and went 15-27 (55.6%) for 221 yards (8.2 YPA) with 1 TD and 0 INT's (Passer Rating 94.8).

In 2002, he had 16 starts and went 320-526 (60.8%) for 3284 yards (6.2 YPA) with 17 TD's and 16 INT's (Passer Rating 76.9).

In 2003, he had 11 starts and went 205-356 (57.6%) for 2108 yards (5.9 YPA) with 11 TD's and 15 INT's (Passer Rating 67.5).

Not great numbers. Under 60% passing with more INT's than TD's in his first 3 seasons.

They did not have the feeling that this guy was their franchise QB of the future.

So they drafted Eli Manning first overall in 2004 (before trading him for Philip Rivers and a couple of picks that ended up being Shawne Merriman and Nate Kaeding).

It wasn't until 2004 (after they already had Rivers in the fold), that Brees started to shine.

In 2004, he had 15 starts and went 262-400 (65.5%) for 3159 yards (7.9 YPA) with 27 TD's and 7 INT's (Passer Rating 104.8).

His contract was up after the 2004 season, but the Chargers retained his rights for one more year by using the franchise tag.

They ended up getting rid of him after the 2005 season, when he had 16 starts and went 323-500 (64.6%) for 3576 yards (7.2 YPA) with 24 TD's and 15 INT's (Passer Rating 89.2), after he tore the labrum in his throwing shoulder in garbage time of the final game of the season.

In 2004-2005, he was a good QB in San Diego, but several things conspired against him remaining in San Diego. His contract was up and they already used the franchise tag on him once, they thought that he might be damaged goods with that injury to his throwing shoulder, and they already were paying a ton of money to Rivers as a 4th overall pick...so they decided to let Brees walk and give the reins over to their young QB prospect instead.

I don't blame the Chargers for that decision. I do blame the Dolphins for choosing Daunte Culpepper over Drew Brees that off-season when Drew really wanted to go to Miami...that was probably the most damaging thing that Nick Saban did during his time there.

proudpittsburgher
09-30-2010, 08:21 PM
Brees is really good. He was good in San Diego and he is even better in NO.

So why did they feel the need to replace Brees at age 25?

Boys need to brush up on your history.

In 2001, he played in 1 game and went 15-27 (55.6%) for 221 yards (8.2 YPA) with 1 TD and 0 INT's (Passer Rating 94.8).

In 2002, he had 16 starts and went 320-526 (60.8%) for 3284 yards (6.2 YPA) with 17 TD's and 16 INT's (Passer Rating 76.9).

In 2003, he had 11 starts and went 205-356 (57.6%) for 2108 yards (5.9 YPA) with 11 TD's and 15 INT's (Passer Rating 67.5).

Not great numbers. Under 60% passing with more INT's than TD's in his first 3 seasons.

They did not have the feeling that this guy was their franchise QB of the future.

So they drafted Eli Manning first overall in 2004 (before trading him for Philip Rivers and a couple of picks that ended up being Shawne Merriman and Nate Kaeding).

It wasn't until 2004 (after they already had Rivers in the fold), that Brees started to shine.

In 2004, he had 15 starts and went 262-400 (65.5%) for 3159 yards (7.9 YPA) with 27 TD's and 7 INT's (Passer Rating 104.8).

His contract was up after the 2004 season, but the Chargers retained his rights for one more year by using the franchise tag.

They ended up getting rid of him after the 2005 season, when he had 16 starts and went 323-500 (64.6%) for 3576 yards (7.2 YPA) with 24 TD's and 15 INT's (Passer Rating 89.2), after he tore the labrum in his throwing shoulder in garbage time of the final game of the season.

In 2004-2005, he was a good QB in San Diego, but several things conspired against him remaining in San Diego. His contract was up and they already used the franchise tag on him once, they thought that he might be damaged goods with that injury to his throwing shoulder, and they already were paying a ton of money to Rivers as a 4th overall pick...so they decided to let Brees walk and give the reins over to their young QB prospect instead.

I don't blame the Chargers for that decision. I do blame the Dolphins for choosing Daunte Culpepper over Drew Brees that off-season when Drew really wanted to go to Miami...that was probably the most damaging thing that Nick Saban did during his time there.


I do remember Marty Shottenheimer havign a very short leash with Brees while in San Diego. It was almost like he didn;t want to give him the change. It wasn't until he got to New Orleans when they let him florish in the system instead keeping him looking over his shoulder.