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JDSteeler
09-15-2010, 01:58 PM
...and until this baffoon is FIRED, I will continue to pull my hair out!!!

Tomlin said that the playbook was "Wide-Open"...un huh...tell that to
a 5 year old, not to the SteelerNation.

What was more pathetic than anything else, is that Arianus was asking DD
to make precision-timing sideline passes with bracket coverage. There are
only a handful of QB's in the league that can put the necessary touch on a
pass so that it can get over the LB, and underneath the CB. He also implemeted
his patented "RUTFM"!!!

The nightmare, that is Arianus's philosphy, is so tainted it makes me "Dry-Heeve"
just thinking about it. He has DD throwing to the outside and RTFBUTFM...Running,
The, Friggin, Ball, Up, The, Friggin, Middle!!!! No pitches, no cut-backs, no mis-
direction, no reverses, no screens, no nothing!!!! SOS!!!!

As I was screaming at Arianus to have DD roll-out, boot-leg, or tuck it and run,
the annoucers started to discuss the play-calling, after DD was almost picked off.

"DD should be throwing middle", said one announcer, and I could have sworn that the
other said something to do with RTFBUTFM too many times.

BA = Bass-Akwards!!!!!!!!

Late in regulation, Mendy started hitting the hole behind Guard/Tackle, and that
was the hole that he ran through for the TD in OT.

I'm happy we won, don't get me wrong, but Arianus is WORSE than last year!!!

PS..Hood had 1 tackle that I saw.

JD

cruzer8
09-15-2010, 02:29 PM
PS..Hood had 1 tackle that I saw.

JD

His primary function is to occupy blockers so the LBs can make the tackles. In limited playing time I have no issue with 1 tackle from Hood. Our LBs went off so obviously the entire D line did its job.

Slapstick
09-15-2010, 03:31 PM
Brett Keisel had 2 tackles...

Aaron Smth had one assist...

Lazy MF'ers!!

RuthlessBurgher
09-15-2010, 03:38 PM
I recall Hood also leveling Ryan on a QB pressure as well. But since he didn't actually sack him, he's obviously a bust. And it's Bruce Arians' fault that Ziggy Hood sucks too!

ikestops85
09-15-2010, 04:09 PM
It's funny because when the game started and I saw our opening drive unfold I thought

My Gawd, I think Arian finally got it!!

We ran some mis-direction plays, bubble screens, quick hitters up the middle, and even a pass out in the flat. The only thing I thought we were missing was going up top to Wallace.

Then for the rest of the game

It was the same ol' sh!t :HeadBanger

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-15-2010, 04:42 PM
Can't gauge DL play in this 3-4 by stats. I know you don't like Hood JD, be he was solid in that game. The LBs were running free behind all fronts which included Hoke, Hood, & Eason. He won't demand the double teams that Hampton requires if he has to play some NT on Sunday but I have seen nothing as of yet to suggest he will be anything but a solid DE for the Steelers. I like the luxury of him not being pressed to start. When he passes Smith or Keisel, he will get his shot. That isn't that far away.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-15-2010, 04:56 PM
It's funny because when the game started and I saw our opening drive unfold I thought

My Gawd, I think Arian finally got it!!

We ran some mis-direction plays, bubble screens, quick hitters up the middle, and even a pass out in the flat. The only thing I thought we were missing was going up top to Wallace.

Then for the rest of the game

It was the same ol' sh!t :HeadBanger

One int approaching the Redzone and a dropped int would make me pull back the reigns. I don't fault Arians in DD's game 2. There was no reason to press the issue. The defense kept them in it & the run game was working even with 8 & 9 in the box. Arians gave DD just enough to keep Atlanta guessing and build DD confidence. If Arians was flinging it after all those near misses and DD through 3 ints & a pick 6, everyone would be calling him an idiot (ok he is but not for this) for not seeing it coming. Dixon was nervous and anyone could see that. Let's just watch and see how he gets more comfortable through week 2 & 3.

SteelAbility
09-15-2010, 05:07 PM
What I thought was really stupid was the 2 and 5 play-call late in regulation at about our own 38 or so ... drop back pass looking for a semi-deep ball. It was the ONE good chance ... FOR THE FALCONS :roll: ... to get a sack, force 3rd and long, and probably get the ball back with sufficient field-position/time to get off a decent FG try. With the field position and time on the clock, a continuation of running game was necessary and appropriate.

SteelAbility
09-15-2010, 05:12 PM
I recall Hood also leveling Ryan on a QB pressure as well. But since he didn't actually sack him, he's obviously a bust. And it's Bruce Arians' fault that Ziggy Hood sucks too!

I know the anit-Arians thing does go too far at times, but dude, his situational play-calling sucks Yak hoof and Llama droppings. He can't think through the simple implications of a play-call in a tight/critical situation where part of the whole advantage is controlling what's done with the ball and clock.

SteelTorch
09-15-2010, 05:37 PM
Oviedo's reply:...

LEAVE ARIANS ALONE!!!!11!!

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/chris-crocker-cries.jpg

papillon
09-15-2010, 06:34 PM
It's funny because when the game started and I saw our opening drive unfold I thought

My Gawd, I think Arian finally got it!!

We ran some mis-direction plays, bubble screens, quick hitters up the middle, and even a pass out in the flat. The only thing I thought we were missing was going up top to Wallace.

Then for the rest of the game

It was the same ol' sh!t :HeadBanger

One int approaching the Redzone and a dropped int would make me pull back the reigns. I don't fault Arians in DD's game 2. There was no reason to press the issue. The defense kept them in it & the run game was working even with 8 & 9 in the box. Arians gave DD just enough to keep Atlanta guessing and build DD confidence. If Arians was flinging it after all those near misses and DD through 3 ints & a pick 6, everyone would be calling him an idiot (ok he is but not for this) for not seeing it coming. Dixon was nervous and anyone could see that. Let's just watch and see how he gets more comfortable through week 2 & 3.

Watch it JPN, too much logic and football acumen concerning the play calling and an argument supporting Bruce Arians will get you banned or, at least, looked at with disdain by many. :P

Pappy

birtikidis
09-15-2010, 07:52 PM
Brett Keisel had 2 tackles...

Aaron Smth had one assist...

Lazy MF'ers!!
cut them all! they've never done anything in their career anyway! just look at their stats!

hawaiiansteel
09-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Brett Keisel had 2 tackles...

Aaron Smth had one assist...

Lazy MF'ers!!
cut them all! they've never done anything in their career anyway! just look at their stats!


yeah, especially that Aaron Smith guy. what a bust he has turned out to be for a 4th round draft choice!

steelcurtain44
09-17-2010, 10:52 AM
...and until this baffoon is FIRED, I will continue to pull my hair out!!!

Tomlin said that the playbook was "Wide-Open"...un huh...tell that to
a 5 year old, not to the SteelerNation.

What was more pathetic than anything else, is that Arianus was asking DD
to make precision-timing sideline passes with bracket coverage. There are
only a handful of QB's in the league that can put the necessary touch on a
pass so that it can get over the LB, and underneath the CB. He also implemeted
his patented "RUTFM"!!!

The nightmare, that is Arianus's philosphy, is so tainted it makes me "Dry-Heeve"
just thinking about it. He has DD throwing to the outside and RTFBUTFM...Running,
The, Friggin, Ball, Up, The, Friggin, Middle!!!! No pitches, no cut-backs, no mis-
direction, no reverses, no screens, no nothing!!!! SOS!!!!

As I was screaming at Arianus to have DD roll-out, boot-leg, or tuck it and run,
the annoucers started to discuss the play-calling, after DD was almost picked off.

"DD should be throwing middle", said one announcer, and I could have sworn that the
other said something to do with RTFBUTFM too many times.

BA = Bass-Akwards!!!!!!!!

Late in regulation, Mendy started hitting the hole behind Guard/Tackle, and that
was the hole that he ran through for the TD in OT.

I'm happy we won, don't get me wrong, but Arianus is WORSE than last year!!!

PS..Hood had 1 tackle that I saw.

JD

Seriously, the Arians rants are getting old as the Tomlin rants. You guys really think it's that easy, just call some plays and they work? Even if they roll him out, do you think the play is going to work, because he's an athletic QB? It doesn't matter what Arians or any other coach does, he will always get critized by the fans.

You go to any other teams message boards, and you'll get the same complaints from their fans about their coaches. It doesn't matter what you do, if the players don't execute the plays, it won't work. And there is always an opposing team. They are there to stop you from having sucessful plays. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

If it was just so easy, why don't you become an OC and call those plays? Yeah, I'm sure every play you called would go for either a 1st down or a TD. It's that simple.

Slapstick
09-17-2010, 11:25 AM
Now, let's be fair...

Just because some people aren't Offensive Coordinators in the NFL doesn't mean that they can't be correct...

It just means that they have no way to prove themselves right or otherwise support their opinion...

steelcurtain44
09-17-2010, 11:32 AM
Now, let's be fair...

Just because some people aren't Offensive Coordinators in the NFL doesn't mean that they can't be correct...

It just means that they have no way to prove themselves right or otherwise support their opinion...

That maybe, but when people are throwing around all these things that the Pros should or should not be doing, they are saying it on the basis that what they are posting is what should be happening. It's just not that easy to do, and fans, with some of their comments make it seem that it's very simple. These guys are all professionals.

I mean really, look at the title of this post.

Slapstick
09-17-2010, 02:36 PM
I don't disagree...

I'm just suggesting that you not take it so seriously...

People come on this board and make a lot of outrageous proclamations...

You can have a difference of opinion, but it isn't worth arguing about something so subjective that can never be proven one way or the other...

Djfan
09-17-2010, 02:39 PM
I know it's hard to believe, but opinions about how bad he is, or how good he is are just opinions.

So, someone thinks the philosophy of "doing it our way no matter who we play" that BA has is good. Fine. Someone else wants a more "adjust your game plan to play on the weaknesses of the opponent this week" approach. Fine.

Both are allowed.

OR, you can do the "belittle the guy who disagrees with me" tactic. That's a good one!

OR, you can talk about why you like one philosophy over another. Now, there's an idea!

So, here goes my OPINION. If you disagree, get ready to put on your middle school vocabulary and fire away. I'm so scared.

I wish he would adjust the game plan to fit the weaknesses of the opponent, and be more open to not doing what isn't working. I don't like the guy. I wish he was gone.

AND, I don't care if you like me or not because of that. Sorry if that takes the wind out of the stupid comments about me, but I don't care.

Flame on.....

eniparadoxgma
09-17-2010, 02:49 PM
I know it's hard to believe, but opinions about how bad he is, or how good he is are just opinions.

So, someone thinks the philosophy of "doing it our way no matter who we play" that BA has is good. Fine. Someone else wants a more "adjust your game plan to play on the weaknesses of the opponent this week" approach. Fine.

Both are allowed.

OR, you can do the "belittle the guy who disagrees with me" tactic. That's a good one!

OR, you can talk about why you like one philosophy over another. Now, there's an idea!

So, here goes my OPINION. If you disagree, get ready to put on your middle school vocabulary and fire away. I'm so scared.

I wish he would adjust the game plan to fit the weaknesses of the opponent, and be more open to not doing what isn't working. I don't like the guy. I wish he was gone.

AND, I don't care if you like me or not because of that. Sorry if that takes the wind out of the stupid comments about me, but I don't care.

Flame on.....

You asked for it, POOPHEAD!!! BURN!!!!!!!

Anyhow, I agree with ike. I loved what I saw from the first drive, and then it all seemed to go back to "normal Arians" after that. If I recall correctly, Arians has stated that he scripts the first drive of a game...and then just starts calling what he wants afterwards. If so, then I think it's time for Arians to sit down and script a looot of different drives for a lot of different circumstances. Of course, you want to adjust to what the defense is doing...but I think Arians is a lot better at preplanning than adjustments.

AngryAsian
09-17-2010, 04:00 PM
I wish he would adjust the game plan to fit the weaknesses of the opponent, and be more open to not doing what isn't working. I don't like the guy. I wish he was gone......


Exactly why I have the same beef with our OC... when thinking about this, my Asian brother Sun Tzu says it best:


"If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is superior in strength, evade him. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is inactive, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."

- The Art of War (Sun Tzu)

feltdizz
09-17-2010, 04:07 PM
what was the weakness of the opponent last week? How would people have attacked ATL differently?

I could see if Dixon was throwing well on 3rd down and the other team was eating up the pass plays but that wasn't the case.

Dixon was hitting the right WR but he was hitting their feet.

We won on a running play in OT. I'm curious to know what others would do with Dixon given his experience, the LB's spying Dixon, our field position and our mental errors that backed us up more than a few times.

Roll outs... Bootlegs... I bet that is about it. I'm not sure Dixon should be rolled out when we spent half our time inside our 20 to start drives.

Djfan
09-17-2010, 06:46 PM
what was the weakness of the opponent last week? How would people have attacked ATL differently?



It wasn't so much last week, although Enip said it right about the hot start with the lamer follow up.

It is his legacy. He just is lame.

jj28west
09-17-2010, 08:26 PM
what was the weakness of the opponent last week? How would people have attacked ATL differently?

I could see if Dixon was throwing well on 3rd down and the other team was eating up the pass plays but that wasn't the case.

Dixon was hitting the right WR but he was hitting their feet.

We won on a running play in OT. I'm curious to know what others would do with Dixon given his experience, the LB's spying Dixon, our field position and our mental errors that backed us up more than a few times.

Roll outs... Bootlegs... I bet that is about it. I'm not sure Dixon should be rolled out when we spent half our time inside our 20 to start drives.

I never have been to a Steeler game. I see now that they are experimenting with wider angles to see even more of the field. I only get a quick snapshot of the line and that is it. Could anyone who was at the game confirm how the Falcons were playing DD. Three at the line while dropping 8 (1 spy) waiting for him to make a mistake?

I am usually critical as he11 about BA but I really cant tell if it was good scheme and just poor execution or if Atlanta deserves the props with a gameplan to neutralize.

Gotta love the script on the opening drive. Seemed a little westcoastish with the low risk high % dinks and dunks.

JDSteeler
09-18-2010, 09:08 AM
...and until this baffoon is FIRED, I will continue to pull my hair out!!!

Tomlin said that the playbook was "Wide-Open"...un huh...tell that to
a 5 year old, not to the SteelerNation.

What was more pathetic than anything else, is that Arianus was asking DD
to make precision-timing sideline passes with bracket coverage. There are
only a handful of QB's in the league that can put the necessary touch on a
pass so that it can get over the LB, and underneath the CB. He also implemeted
his patented "RUTFM"!!!

The nightmare, that is Arianus's philosphy, is so tainted it makes me "Dry-Heeve"
just thinking about it. He has DD throwing to the outside and RTFBUTFM...Running,
The, Friggin, Ball, Up, The, Friggin, Middle!!!! No pitches, no cut-backs, no mis-
direction, no reverses, no screens, no nothing!!!! SOS!!!!

As I was screaming at Arianus to have DD roll-out, boot-leg, or tuck it and run,
the annoucers started to discuss the play-calling, after DD was almost picked off.

"DD should be throwing middle", said one announcer, and I could have sworn that the
other said something to do with RTFBUTFM too many times.

BA = Bass-Akwards!!!!!!!!

Late in regulation, Mendy started hitting the hole behind Guard/Tackle, and that
was the hole that he ran through for the TD in OT.

I'm happy we won, don't get me wrong, but Arianus is WORSE than last year!!!

PS..Hood had 1 tackle that I saw.

JD

Seriously, the Arians rants are getting old as the Tomlin rants. You guys really think it's that easy, just call some plays and they work? Even if they roll him out, do you think the play is going to work, because he's an athletic QB? It doesn't matter what Arians or any other coach does, he will always get critized by the fans.

You go to any other teams message boards, and you'll get the same complaints from their fans about their coaches. It doesn't matter what you do, if the players don't execute the plays, it won't work. And there is always an opposing team. They are there to stop you from having sucessful plays. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

If it was just so easy, why don't you become an OC and call those plays? Yeah, I'm sure every play you called would go for either a 1st down or a TD. It's that simple.

I never said it was easy....I never said I could do it, but i'd like to try, cuz...... Arianus
is JFS=Just-Friggin-Stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeh, I understand that the players have to execute the play, but here is my problem
with The Baffoon...He doesn't put them in good position to EXECUTE!!!!!

1. He calls the same running play over and over and over and over!! UTFM=Up-The-
Friggin-Middle. He is TFP=Too-Friggin-Predictable. All I'm asking him to do is, mix up
it up a little. Don't call a RUTFM, after it has been called before. If he calls a RUTFM
on 1st down, pitch it on 2nd down. Just keep the defense a little off-balance. Because
if the defense knows what's coming, it's easier to stop. It's just common sense!!!

If I played DL/LB for the Tits, I'd be salivating!!!! Because after watching the tape of
the Falcons game, I know that I only have to worry about ONE gap!!!

2. He supposedly had left the playbook wide open vs the Falcons...uh huh...no he didn't. But what he did do is, have DD throw difficult passes to the sideline, having a few almost picked. But what he should have done was have DD throw MIDDLE!!!!! Crossing routes to the WR's, slants to the TE's, and check-downs to the RB's. Then mix in some run plays, that get the defense tired....like running side to side; sweeps, and stretch plays.

3. DD doesn't necessarily have to roll-out everytime, but ONCE a series is not much too
much to ask for. This puts pressure on the defense, because they don't know if he'll run or pass.

4. Arianus is a "MOMENTUM-KILLER"!!! Atleast 5-7 times in the game, I can remember
that we had completed a pass, and started to get a rythm, and some momentum. As
soon as I thought we'd continue the attack, and score a TD...The Baffoon would call
that patented RUTFM again!!!!! Totally kill the momentum, as if that was his INTENTION!
To me, it's obvious!!!! To you...I just don't know if you even have a clue!!!

It aint rocket science, it's football 101!!!!!

Arianus needs to go back to Baffoon School, and leave the play-calling to the water-
boy!!!!! What was Adam Sandler's characters name in that movie??

JD

Captain Lemming
09-18-2010, 10:16 AM
...and until this baffoon is FIRED, I will continue to pull my hair out!!!

Tomlin said that the playbook was "Wide-Open"...un huh...tell that to
a 5 year old, not to the SteelerNation.

What was more pathetic than anything else, is that Arianus was asking DD
to make precision-timing sideline passes with bracket coverage. There are
only a handful of QB's in the league that can put the necessary touch on a
pass so that it can get over the LB, and underneath the CB. He also implemeted
his patented "RUTFM"!!!

The nightmare, that is Arianus's philosphy, is so tainted it makes me "Dry-Heeve"
just thinking about it. He has DD throwing to the outside and RTFBUTFM...Running,
The, Friggin, Ball, Up, The, Friggin, Middle!!!! No pitches, no cut-backs, no mis-
direction, no reverses, no screens, no nothing!!!! SOS!!!!

As I was screaming at Arianus to have DD roll-out, boot-leg, or tuck it and run,
the annoucers started to discuss the play-calling, after DD was almost picked off.

"DD should be throwing middle", said one announcer, and I could have sworn that the
other said something to do with RTFBUTFM too many times.

BA = Bass-Akwards!!!!!!!!

Late in regulation, Mendy started hitting the hole behind Guard/Tackle, and that
was the hole that he ran through for the TD in OT.

I'm happy we won, don't get me wrong, but Arianus is WORSE than last year!!!

PS..Hood had 1 tackle that I saw.

JD

Seriously, the Arians rants are getting old as the Tomlin rants. You guys really think it's that easy, just call some plays and they work? Even if they roll him out, do you think the play is going to work, because he's an athletic QB? It doesn't matter what Arians or any other coach does, he will always get critized by the fans.

You go to any other teams message boards, and you'll get the same complaints from their fans about their coaches. It doesn't matter what you do, if the players don't execute the plays, it won't work. And there is always an opposing team. They are there to stop you from having sucessful plays. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

If it was just so easy, why don't you become an OC and call those plays? Yeah, I'm sure every play you called would go for either a 1st down or a TD. It's that simple.

I never said it was easy....I never said I could do it, but i'd like to try, cuz...... Arianus
is JFS=Just-Friggin-Stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeh, I understand that the players have to execute the play, but here is my problem
with The Baffoon...He doesn't put them in good position to EXECUTE!!!!!

1. He calls the same running play over and over and over and over!! UTFM=Up-The-
Friggin-Middle. He is TFP=Too-Friggin-Predictable. All I'm asking him to do is, mix up
it up a little. Don't call a RUTFM, after it has been called before. If he calls a RUTFM
on 1st down, pitch it on 2nd down. Just keep the defense a little off-balance. Because
if the defense knows what's coming, it's easier to stop. It's just common sense!!!

If I played DL/LB for the Tits, I'd be salivating!!!! Because after watching the tape of
the Falcons game, I know that I only have to worry about ONE gap!!!

2. He supposedly had left the playbook wide open vs the Falcons...uh huh...no he didn't. But what he did do is, have DD throw difficult passes to the sideline, having a few almost picked. But what he should have done was have DD throw MIDDLE!!!!! Crossing routes to the WR's, slants to the TE's, and check-downs to the RB's. Then mix in some run plays, that get the defense tired....like running side to side; sweeps, and stretch plays.

3. DD doesn't necessarily have to roll-out everytime, but ONCE a series is not much too
much to ask for. This puts pressure on the defense, because they don't know if he'll run or pass.

4. Arianus is a "MOMENTUM-KILLER"!!! Atleast 5-7 times in the game, I can remember
that we had completed a pass, and started to get a rythm, and some momentum. As
soon as I thought we'd continue the attack, and score a TD...The Baffoon would call
that patented RUTFM again!!!!! Totally kill the momentum, as if that was his INTENTION!
To me, it's obvious!!!! To you...I just don't know if you even have a clue!!!

It aint rocket science, it's football 101!!!!!

Arianus needs to go back to Baffoon School, and leave the play-calling to the water-
boy!!!!! What was Adam Sandler's characters name in that movie??

JD

I dont recall but what was the first call in overtime, the call that won the game?

Oh yes you mention it.

In brief if you were to use an acronym, what letters would you use to describe it?

steelcurtain44
09-18-2010, 10:17 AM
...and until this baffoon is FIRED, I will continue to pull my hair out!!!

Tomlin said that the playbook was "Wide-Open"...un huh...tell that to
a 5 year old, not to the SteelerNation.

What was more pathetic than anything else, is that Arianus was asking DD
to make precision-timing sideline passes with bracket coverage. There are
only a handful of QB's in the league that can put the necessary touch on a
pass so that it can get over the LB, and underneath the CB. He also implemeted
his patented "RUTFM"!!!

The nightmare, that is Arianus's philosphy, is so tainted it makes me "Dry-Heeve"
just thinking about it. He has DD throwing to the outside and RTFBUTFM...Running,
The, Friggin, Ball, Up, The, Friggin, Middle!!!! No pitches, no cut-backs, no mis-
direction, no reverses, no screens, no nothing!!!! SOS!!!!

As I was screaming at Arianus to have DD roll-out, boot-leg, or tuck it and run,
the annoucers started to discuss the play-calling, after DD was almost picked off.

"DD should be throwing middle", said one announcer, and I could have sworn that the
other said something to do with RTFBUTFM too many times.

BA = Bass-Akwards!!!!!!!!

Late in regulation, Mendy started hitting the hole behind Guard/Tackle, and that
was the hole that he ran through for the TD in OT.

I'm happy we won, don't get me wrong, but Arianus is WORSE than last year!!!

PS..Hood had 1 tackle that I saw.

JD

Seriously, the Arians rants are getting old as the Tomlin rants. You guys really think it's that easy, just call some plays and they work? Even if they roll him out, do you think the play is going to work, because he's an athletic QB? It doesn't matter what Arians or any other coach does, he will always get critized by the fans.

You go to any other teams message boards, and you'll get the same complaints from their fans about their coaches. It doesn't matter what you do, if the players don't execute the plays, it won't work. And there is always an opposing team. They are there to stop you from having sucessful plays. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

If it was just so easy, why don't you become an OC and call those plays? Yeah, I'm sure every play you called would go for either a 1st down or a TD. It's that simple.

I never said it was easy....I never said I could do it, but i'd like to try, cuz...... Arianus
is JFS=Just-Friggin-Stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeh, I understand that the players have to execute the play, but here is my problem
with The Baffoon...He doesn't put them in good position to EXECUTE!!!!!

1. He calls the same running play over and over and over and over!! UTFM=Up-The-
Friggin-Middle. He is TFP=Too-Friggin-Predictable. All I'm asking him to do is, mix up
it up a little. Don't call a RUTFM, after it has been called before. If he calls a RUTFM
on 1st down, pitch it on 2nd down. Just keep the defense a little off-balance. Because
if the defense knows what's coming, it's easier to stop. It's just common sense!!!

If I played DL/LB for the Tits, I'd be salivating!!!! Because after watching the tape of
the Falcons game, I know that I only have to worry about ONE gap!!!

2. He supposedly had left the playbook wide open vs the Falcons...uh huh...no he didn't. But what he did do is, have DD throw difficult passes to the sideline, having a few almost picked. But what he should have done was have DD throw MIDDLE!!!!! Crossing routes to the WR's, slants to the TE's, and check-downs to the RB's. Then mix in some run plays, that get the defense tired....like running side to side; sweeps, and stretch plays.

3. DD doesn't necessarily have to roll-out everytime, but ONCE a series is not much too
much to ask for. This puts pressure on the defense, because they don't know if he'll run or pass.

4. Arianus is a "MOMENTUM-KILLER"!!! Atleast 5-7 times in the game, I can remember
that we had completed a pass, and started to get a rythm, and some momentum. As
soon as I thought we'd continue the attack, and score a TD...The Baffoon would call
that patented RUTFM again!!!!! Totally kill the momentum, as if that was his INTENTION!
To me, it's obvious!!!! To you...I just don't know if you even have a clue!!!

It aint rocket science, it's football 101!!!!!

Arianus needs to go back to Baffoon School, and leave the play-calling to the water-
boy!!!!! What was Adam Sandler's characters name in that movie??

JD

The one bold item is the one that always gets me when people make that remark. Could it be, that the play called was a play to put them in the best position to succeed, but the other team stopped them?

It's funny when a play works, it's the players who executed the play, but when the play fails the coaches didn't put the players in a position to be successful. Again it doesn't matter what play is called, if the players don't exeucte the play, and beat the opposing defense, it won't work. It's that simple.

stlrz d
09-18-2010, 10:30 AM
steelcurtain44 - That's a 2 sided coin. Sometimes the play called puts the players in position to NOT be able to execute.

You've got to have a good play called and the players have to execute it. The two go hand in hand.

Djfan
09-18-2010, 12:09 PM
steelcurtain44 - That's a 2 sided coin. Sometimes the play called puts the players in position to NOT be able to execute.

You've got to have a good play called and the players have to execute it. The two go hand in hand.
:Agree

And this is where Brucey fails IMO.

feltdizz
09-18-2010, 02:58 PM
Did we lose? We have a 3rd string QB who found out he was starting a week before the season started and has limited reps with the first team. I really hope we go 4-0 so I can read all the excuses for why Arians is to blame.


Any game we win without Ben is a game you can't blame the coaches given our QB conundrum. I've been a Dixon fan all along but there was a reason the coaches brought in Lefty.

RuthlessBurgher
09-18-2010, 04:12 PM
What was Adam Sandler's characters name in that movie??

http://www.shirt-fight.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/bobby-boucher-football-camp.jpg

SteelTorch
09-18-2010, 04:25 PM
Did we lose? We have a 3rd string QB who found out he was starting a week before the season started and has limited reps with the first team. I really hope we go 4-0 so I can read all the excuses for why Arians is to blame.


Any game we win without Ben is a game you can't blame the coaches given our QB conundrum. I've been a Dixon fan all along but there was a reason the coaches brought in Lefty.
Why do you, Oviedo, and pfelix assume that just because we won, that means Arians should be free from criticism? There are two sides to the ball. Our defense held the Falcons to NINE points, and we still had to go into overtime to beat them. I know, DD is a rookie, but remember last year we couldn't even score enough points to be a woefully inept Browns team. This wasn't a good or even a mediocre team we lost to - it was THE BROWNS!

Get a clue. Since Arians took over, our offense has consistently been inefficient and unreliable, and Ben has taken 40+ sacks every year. Were it not for our defense, things would be a lot worse right now. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Arians is not the right guy for the job.

feltdizz
09-18-2010, 05:42 PM
The Browns was one game. You can't keep bringing up one game to support your argument. Arians put Adixon in a position to make plays and he missed on a few key 3rd downs.

Arians job in the first four games is to make sure Dixon doesn't lose the game.

It's comedy hearing how bad Arians is after winning a game on a running play in OT with DD at QB.

SteelTorch
09-18-2010, 09:00 PM
The Browns was one game. You can't keep bringing up one game to support your argument. Arians put Adixon in a position to make plays and he missed on a few key 3rd downs.

Arians job in the first four games is to make sure Dixon doesn't lose the game.

It's comedy hearing how bad Arians is after winning a game on a running play in OT with DD at QB.
I love how you criticize me for bringing up one game to support my argument, yet all you muster to back yourself up is one play. Genius. You also fail to acknowledge any role our defense plays in the game. You seem to forget they even exist.

But hey, I can bring up more. How about our loss to the Bears - we didn't score more than 14 points against them. We were also in the bottom half of the league in scoring efficiency in 2009. I don't think I need to bring up our problems with short yardage. And once again, Ben was sacked 40+ times. I guess you still cling to the tired "Ben holds on too long" excuse.

Captain Lemming
09-18-2010, 09:15 PM
steelcurtain44 - That's a 2 sided coin. Sometimes the play called puts the players in position to NOT be able to execute.

You've got to have a good play called and the players have to execute it. The two go hand in hand.

When drives stall when the QB hits the right receiver at his feet, more than once, is it the call or execution?

Captain Lemming
09-18-2010, 09:22 PM
It's comedy hearing how bad Arians is after winning a game on a running play in OT with DD at QB.

Arent there "letters" that are used to describe that play, an acronym? Isnt that call the one he kept doing, one that makes him a moron?

He stubbornly kept doing it. Even in overtime the idiot would not LEARN.

If not for his stupid insistence that we would break one we would have won the ga....wait

We did win the game.....on that play.....nevermind.

steelsnis
09-18-2010, 09:46 PM
But hey, I can bring up more. How about our loss to the Bears - we didn't score more than 14 points against them.

I'm certainly not Arian's biggest fan, but fair is fair: In the Chicago game, Santonio DROPPED an easy touchdown late in the game against the Bears that would have put the game away, and Reed MISSED two field goals.

AND, the defense gave up a late drive to Cutler that gave Chicago the win.

Like I said, I'm not a huge Arians guy, but his play calling didn't lose us the game vs. Chicago last year, poor execution and a bad late-game defensive performance did.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-18-2010, 09:50 PM
Reading through this thread, I have reached the third page and am surprised nobody has brought this up......

I don't think that they can use the roll out too often with DD because we are one hit away from Charlie Glass lining up under center. We all love Batch, but not enough to want to ever see him playing a regular season game for us again.

If BL is back and our #2 for week 3 then I will want....and expect to see DD put into more situations, but for now I would rather see him hand off or drop straight back and release it quickly.

BURGH86STEEL
09-18-2010, 09:52 PM
Did we lose? We have a 3rd string QB who found out he was starting a week before the season started and has limited reps with the first team. I really hope we go 4-0 so I can read all the excuses for why Arians is to blame.


Any game we win without Ben is a game you can't blame the coaches given our QB conundrum. I've been a Dixon fan all along but there was a reason the coaches brought in Lefty.
Why do you, Oviedo, and pfelix assume that just because we won, that means Arians should be free from criticism? There are two sides to the ball. Our defense held the Falcons to NINE points, and we still had to go into overtime to beat them. I know, DD is a rookie, but remember last year we couldn't even score enough points to be a woefully inept Browns team. This wasn't a good or even a mediocre team we lost to - it was THE BROWNS!

Get a clue. Since Arians took over, our offense has consistently been inefficient and unreliable, and Ben has taken 40+ sacks every year. Were it not for our defense, things would be a lot worse right now. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Arians is not the right guy for the job.

It's one thing to have criticism, it's another thing to blame Arians for almost everything. Seems to me that many fans don't want to give Arians credit for anything. The guy has his short comings. There were/are times I don't agree with every play call. That being said, he has done a good job in several areas. Some fans conveniently gloss over the good things because they want to blame him for almost everything (i.e. defensive failures), disagree with play calling, because he was OC in Cleveland, or try to sum up his coaching career based on a bad game or a few bad calls.

You can throw out the 2nd Cleveland game from last season. That was a bad team game, offense defense, and special teams. I understand if you only want to blame the offense for that loss. Your prerogative is that you only want to focus on the offense. Forget that the defense and special teams let Cribbs have a great game.

I know that the offense had success in several areas. I can prove it. I am not sure if the offense has been consistently inefficient. It would take some research. If that was the case, I'd have to look at players coached 1st. I always wonder how some fans blame the coaches when they see opportunities on the field but the players fail to execute??? My first focus is on execution. IMO, that's where games are ultimately won and loss.

We can state, "Were it not for our defense, things would be a lot worse right now," for almost every year of this team's existence. The defense has always been the back bone of the team in the SB era. Based on this team's history, that's exactly where the back bone should be. Now that's a good reason to say, "get a clue."

The fact of the matter is that Tomlin believes BA has been the right guy for the job up to this point. In many ways that I doubt you will see, BA proved to be the right guy for the job. The players and coaches on offense need to improve in a few areas. I believe most of those improvements need to happen with talent and execution on the field.

If BA goes, he goes. If BA stays, he stays. If history is any indication, I know some fans will find reasons to make the next Steelers OC out to be a goat.

BURGH86STEEL
09-18-2010, 09:56 PM
But hey, I can bring up more. How about our loss to the Bears - we didn't score more than 14 points against them.

I'm certainly not Arian's biggest fan, but fair is fair: In the Chicago game, Santonio DROPPED an easy touchdown late in the game against the Bears that would have put the game away, and Reed MISSED two field goals.

AND, the defense gave up a late drive to Cutler that gave Chicago the win.

Like I said, I'm not a huge Arians guy, but his play calling didn't lose us the game vs. Chicago last year, poor execution and a bad late-game defensive performance did.

IMO, that's what loses most games.

papillon
09-18-2010, 10:05 PM
Reading through this thread, I have reached the third page and am surprised nobody has brought this up......

I don't think that they can use the roll out too often with DD because we are one hit away from Charlie Glass lining up under center. We all love Batch, but not enough to want to ever see him playing a regular season game for us again.

If BL is back and our #2 for week 3 then I will want....and expect to see DD put into more situations, but for now I would rather see him hand off or drop straight back and release it quickly.

Not only that SFiT, by rolling Dixon to his right or left makes his reads easier, it also makes playing defense easier, since only half the field is effectively in play. I guess Dixon could try to throw back across the field, but that's a recipe for disaster.

Pappy

BURGH86STEEL
09-18-2010, 10:15 PM
Reading through this thread, I have reached the third page and am surprised nobody has brought this up......

I don't think that they can use the roll out too often with DD because we are one hit away from Charlie Glass lining up under center. We all love Batch, but not enough to want to ever see him playing a regular season game for us again.

If BL is back and our #2 for week 3 then I will want....and expect to see DD put into more situations, but for now I would rather see him hand off or drop straight back and release it quickly.

Not only that SFiT, by rolling Dixon to his right or left makes his reads easier, it also makes playing defense easier, since only half the field is effectively in play. I guess Dixon could try to throw back across the field, but that's a recipe for disaster.

Pappy

There are reasons why no teams have roll out passes as a staple in the offense. It's to easily defensed to be implemented on a consistent basis.

I thought they did some good things off of play action against ATL. I'd rather see that then Dixon on the move.

Flasteel
09-18-2010, 10:30 PM
Reading through this thread, I have reached the third page and am surprised nobody has brought this up......

I don't think that they can use the roll out too often with DD because we are one hit away from Charlie Glass lining up under center. We all love Batch, but not enough to want to ever see him playing a regular season game for us again.

If BL is back and our #2 for week 3 then I will want....and expect to see DD put into more situations, but for now I would rather see him hand off or drop straight back and release it quickly.

Not only that SFiT, by rolling Dixon to his right or left makes his reads easier, it also makes playing defense easier, since only half the field is effectively in play. I guess Dixon could try to throw back across the field, but that's a recipe for disaster.

Pappy

There are reasons why no teams have roll out passes as a staple in the offense. It's to easily defensed to be implemented on a consistent basis.

I thought they did some good things off of play action against ATL. I'd rather see that then Dixon on the move.
You’re crazy. DD on the perimeter, not only puts his skill set into play, it challenges the defense to defend it as well as the pass. Linebackers begin to cheat outside, defensive linemen slow their rush, and corners have to play closer to the line of scrimmage. I can’t understand why Arians would not have some designed runs and roll-outs…it defies all logic. You, Dizz, and the other BA fan club members would blindly defend his play-calling regardless, therefore your opinion on the subject carries little weight for me.

I thought he did some good things in the first game in terms of mixing the pass and the run, but to not take advantage of DD’s skill set is just another example of how he sucks big ol’ monkey balls. Arians is stuck in a box and he can’t seem to stick his head out for any significant stretch.

SteelTorch
09-18-2010, 10:48 PM
It's one thing to have criticism, it's another thing to blame Arians for almost everything. Seems to me that many fans don't want to give Arians credit for anything. The guy has his short comings. There were/are times I don't agree with every play call. That being said, he has done a good job in several areas. Some fans conveniently gloss over the good things because they want to blame him for almost everything (i.e. defensive failures), disagree with play calling, because he was OC in Cleveland, or try to sum up his coaching career based on a bad game or a few bad calls.

You can throw out the 2nd Cleveland game from last season. That was a bad team game, offense defense, and special teams. I understand if you only want to blame the offense for that loss. Your prerogative is that you only want to focus on the offense. Forget that the defense and special teams let Cribbs have a great game.

I know that the offense had success in several areas. I can prove it. I am not sure if the offense has been consistently inefficient. It would take some research. If that was the case, I'd have to look at players coached 1st. I always wonder how some fans blame the coaches when they see opportunities on the field but the players fail to execute??? My first focus is on execution. IMO, that's where games are ultimately won and loss.

We can state, "Were it not for our defense, things would be a lot worse right now," for almost every year of this team's existence. The defense has always been the back bone of the team in the SB era. Based on this team's history, that's exactly where the back bone should be. Now that's a good reason to say, "get a clue."

The fact of the matter is that Tomlin believes BA has been the right guy for the job up to this point. In many ways that I doubt you will see, BA proved to be the right guy for the job. The players and coaches on offense need to improve in a few areas. I believe most of those improvements need to happen with talent and execution on the field.

If BA goes, he goes. If BA stays, he stays. If history is any indication, I know some fans will find reasons to make the next Steelers OC out to be a goat.
Oh grow up, already. First off, nobody here is blaming Arians for EVERYTHING. You and other Arians apologists think that every time we criticize him, we're blaming him for all our team's failures. We're not. At least, I'm not.

Nor am I saying the defense is free from blame. If you've paid attention to my posts in other threads, you'd know that I've often criticized our defense for dropping the ball numerous times last year. All players and staff had their share of failures last year, and Arians is no different. However, unlike D. Lebeau, Arians does not have the luxury of claiming he's fielded statistically-dominant offenses these last few years.

As far as inefficiency, that is easily proven. Just look at how many yards we gained per game, and compare that into how many points we scored. It's EASY. Last year, we were 18th. Year before that, we were 15th. Not rocket science. Now name me something the offense has excelled at. No, yards don't matter, they don't win games.

Finally, concerning our defense being the backbone of our team, that's NOT true. Our "backbone" has always been a strong defense anchored by a strong, reliable offense. That does not necessarily mean scoring 30 points a game, it means an offense you can count on. Arians' offenses have not been reliable, and they've come darn close to ending Big Ben's career. Again I say, get a clue.

BURGH86STEEL
09-18-2010, 11:45 PM
It's one thing to have criticism, it's another thing to blame Arians for almost everything. Seems to me that many fans don't want to give Arians credit for anything. The guy has his short comings. There were/are times I don't agree with every play call. That being said, he has done a good job in several areas. Some fans conveniently gloss over the good things because they want to blame him for almost everything (i.e. defensive failures), disagree with play calling, because he was OC in Cleveland, or try to sum up his coaching career based on a bad game or a few bad calls.

You can throw out the 2nd Cleveland game from last season. That was a bad team game, offense defense, and special teams. I understand if you only want to blame the offense for that loss. Your prerogative is that you only want to focus on the offense. Forget that the defense and special teams let Cribbs have a great game.

I know that the offense had success in several areas. I can prove it. I am not sure if the offense has been consistently inefficient. It would take some research. If that was the case, I'd have to look at players coached 1st. I always wonder how some fans blame the coaches when they see opportunities on the field but the players fail to execute??? My first focus is on execution. IMO, that's where games are ultimately won and loss.

We can state, "Were it not for our defense, things would be a lot worse right now," for almost every year of this team's existence. The defense has always been the back bone of the team in the SB era. Based on this team's history, that's exactly where the back bone should be. Now that's a good reason to say, "get a clue."

The fact of the matter is that Tomlin believes BA has been the right guy for the job up to this point. In many ways that I doubt you will see, BA proved to be the right guy for the job. The players and coaches on offense need to improve in a few areas. I believe most of those improvements need to happen with talent and execution on the field.

If BA goes, he goes. If BA stays, he stays. If history is any indication, I know some fans will find reasons to make the next Steelers OC out to be a goat.
Oh grow up, already. First off, nobody here is blaming Arians for EVERYTHING. You and other Arians apologists think that every time we criticize him, we're blaming him for all our team's failures. We're not. At least, I'm not.

Nor am I saying the defense is free from blame. If you've paid attention to my posts in other threads, you'd know that I've often criticized our defense for dropping the ball numerous times last year. All players and staff had their share of failures last year, and Arians is no different. However, unlike D. Lebeau, Arians does not have the luxury of claiming he's fielded statistically-dominant offenses these last few years.

As far as inefficiency, that is easily proven. Just look at how many yards we gained per game, and compare that into how many points we scored. It's EASY. Last year, we were 18th. Year before that, we were 15th. Not rocket science. Now name me something the offense has excelled at. No, yards don't matter, they don't win games.

Finally, concerning our defense being the backbone of our team, that's NOT true. Our "backbone" has always been a strong defense anchored by a strong, reliable offense. That does not necessarily mean scoring 30 points a game, it means an offense you can count on. Arians' offenses have not been reliable, and they've come darn close to ending Big Ben's career. Again I say, get a clue.

BA's does not have close to the overall talent on offense that Lebeau has on the defense. It's been that way for a long, long time for the Steelers. Ultimately, players win games in the NFL.

Ben's become a better QB in the offense. He's also become one of the best 2 minute QB's in the game in this offense. The offense has become more explosive. They attack every area and level of the field in the passing game. The run game is not as good as it once was. I believe that goes back to losing 3 probowl players on the Oline and a change in philosophy to a passing offense. It's what happens to teams when the have franchise QB's. You know, practice pass more then the run. They had issues in short yardage and that can be blamed mostly on execution up front. Yards don't win games but they are a factor in offensive efficiency. The offense is not as bad as some fans make it. I agree with fans that believe they need to improve in a few areas. That's why I believe BA is still with the team.

According to NFL.com, they were 12th in scoring offense in 09. If the execution were better, they could've easily been in the top 10 scoring offenses last season. I remember dropped TD passes, poor execution in the red zone on occasions, and at least 3 missed FG's (2 CHI and 1 CIN). The scoring offense was up from 20th in 2008. The run game averaged 4.2 YPA in 09 and 2008 3.7 YPA. Would you say they are headed in the right direction? The offense will take a step back until the best player returns.

The defense has been the backbone of the team, period.

When was the offense reliable in terms of point production? The last offense that was in top 10 in point production was 2007 (9th). Time before that was 2005 (9th). The last Steelers offense that was in the top 5 was 1995 (5th). Guess it depends how one defines reliable offense.

I hate to get caught up into this nonsense (attempting to blame a coach for ending a player's career). You see my point when I wrote some fans want to blame BA for everything? Forget that there are times that Ben holds the ball too long or has issues recognizing from where the blitz might be coming. Forget that the Oline, TE's, and RB's struggle executing their blocks at times. Bottom line, the nature of football dictates that a player's career can end on any given play. And I need to get a clue?

steelz09
09-19-2010, 04:29 PM
After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?

stlrz d
09-19-2010, 04:33 PM
After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?
Not from me. Nothing like setting your QBs up to fail by only having them throw when it's obvious they will be throwing.

steelz09
09-19-2010, 04:39 PM
After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?
Not from me. Nothing like setting your QBs up to fail by only having them throw when it's obvious they will be throwing.

That is exactly what I'm referring too. He completely set Batch in particular up for failure on many occasions. If your so afraid to have your backup QB's throw on 1st round to "mix it up" then you should try to find other backups. He must have absolutely zero confidence in their passing abilities.

feltdizz
09-19-2010, 04:39 PM
2-0... and anyone who said 1-3 shouldn't type another word until week 5.

stlrz d
09-19-2010, 04:41 PM
After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?
Not from me. Nothing like setting your QBs up to fail by only having them throw when it's obvious they will be throwing.

That is exactly what I'm referring too. He completely set Batch in particular up for failure on many occasions. If your so afraid to have your backup QB's throw on 1st round to "mix it up" then you should try to find other backups. He must have absolutely zero confidence in their passing abilities.

He wouldn't even mix in a throw on 2nd and short. You know, when the D is expecting a run. BA fscking sucks. Period.

Even without Ben that game should not have been that close.

steelz09
09-19-2010, 04:45 PM
[quote=jhansle1]After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?
Not from me. Nothing like setting your QBs up to fail by only having them throw when it's obvious they will be throwing.

That is exactly what I'm referring too. He completely set Batch in particular up for failure on many occasions. If your so afraid to have your backup QB's throw on 1st round to "mix it up" then you should try to find other backups. He must have absolutely zero confidence in their passing abilities.

He wouldn't even mix in a throw on 2nd and short. You know, when the D is expecting a run. BA fscking sucks. Period.

Even without Ben that game should not have been that close.[/quote:2c26o439]

Agreed - 100%.

The Man of Steel
09-19-2010, 04:46 PM
After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?
Yup. Arians would be a perfect fit for Cleveland..............oh wait.

Discipline of Steel
09-19-2010, 04:50 PM
[quote=jhansle1]After today's game, is there any question about the relationship between Arians and garbage?
Not from me. Nothing like setting your QBs up to fail by only having them throw when it's obvious they will be throwing.

That is exactly what I'm referring too. He completely set Batch in particular up for failure on many occasions. If your so afraid to have your backup QB's throw on 1st round to "mix it up" then you should try to find other backups. He must have absolutely zero confidence in their passing abilities.

He wouldn't even mix in a throw on 2nd and short. You know, when the D is expecting a run. BA fscking sucks. Period.

Even without Ben that game should not have been that close.[/quote:2phin6f1]

In two games, we are now 7 of 9 on field goals with one offensive TD....the 50 yard run. We have yet to score from within the red zone! Heath, where are you? Jerome.....?
:stirpot

feltdizz
09-19-2010, 04:51 PM
Wah wah wah... looked like a Cowher game plan to me.

winwithd
09-19-2010, 05:13 PM
People talk about going against 12 men (or in basketball, 5 against 6), because of officiating. But today it was 11-on-12 for the Steelers offense because of BA. It was pathetic. At the very least mix in something like an end around where ARE can run or pass, but everything was up the middle. Or a reverse to Wallace? The whole stadium had to know what was coming.

At least we won.

I had said we would be 3-1 to start. I think we still do that and maybe even 4-0 if Dixon isn't hurt too bad.

Did anyone see the Raven offense today? Pretty poor again.

JDSteeler
09-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Dixon got hurt, and Batch was the only other QB we had. So I do understand that
BA has to protect Batch to some extent, but you have to be kidding me BA??

WTF was that???? What playbook has six plays in it for a whole game????

I'm officially jumping off the "BA is GARBAGE bandwagon"...

I'm now on the "BA is Bad word, bad word, bad word, bad word, and badder word
GARBAGE bandwagon"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Defense, and Reed won the game!!!!!

This defense is so sick, it's crazy!!!!

("CAN SOME POST A LINK OF THE "VY" SUPLEX BY HARRISON, SMITH, AND KEISEL....PLEASE!!!!)

I would have gone a shade of bright red if I continued to try to cuss at BA through
the TV.

I'm INSENSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does Tomlin put up with it??? As far as I'm concerned, BA is ramrodding Tomlin
like a Elephant would do a rabbit.....and probably laughing in his face, while saying
something like..."Just bend over and take it "!!!!

Stupendous job BA....Stupendous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe with Lefty coming back for the TB game, we can manage to add "2-MORE PLAYS
TO THE ARSENOL"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm froooothing at the mouth like a crazed dog, and would like 5-mins alone with BA,
and his playbook to show where I think he should shove it!!!!

JD

AkronSteel
09-19-2010, 09:22 PM
Enough of the screen passes already!!! Can we please throw the ball down the field a little!!! I understand that we are playing with our 3rd and 4th string QB's but come on....they are professional QB's right?? We are going to have to start to stretch the field a little, even next week!!! This sideways offense is not going to get it done!! I know we will have our Pro Bowl QB back in 3 weeks but I would like to win again before he gets back and even though the D is playing lights out, we can't expect them to play this way all the time!!!

Mister Pittsburgh
09-19-2010, 11:07 PM
I find it hard to believe that this guy still has an NFL gig. If that is the best we could muster with Dennis Dixon or Charlie Batch under center then they should both be gone along with Arians. Should have drafted a pocket passer if you want a pocket passer morons. You don't draft a running QB to then take away the best thing he has to offer. Garbage is being nice for the dung Arians system produces.

winwithd
09-19-2010, 11:38 PM
Dixon was considered a first-round talent in college until he hurt his knee. Is he REALLY so bad that you can't let him do more? It looks to me like he had a bigger playbook last year in the Ravens game. Didn't BA even say last week that Dixon was making all the right reads against ATL and that his throws were just off because he was rushing things. At least when he was in the game we moved the ball 67 yards on an early drive. When he is in there the other team has to account for his ability to take off for 21 yards. There is no such threat with Batch or Leftwich.

I couldn't believe it when it looked like they actually called for him to run the ball around the left side. Too bad no one in front of him decided to block anyone. I am not a football coach but it seems to me that something like that has got to loosen up the middle a little. And I hope I don't have to hear BA bs about how he knew Dixon would get hurt if he ran because by what Dixon said in the post-game, it happening from making a cut not contact.

One more thing, off-topic, before I step off of my soapbox. Check out the Titans post-game video at NFL.com (the 5th minute). Why does Chris Johnson keep shaking his head like that? Is he messed up from getting hit so hard today or might he have fleas in that mop? He did scratch it too.

Sometimes I think they don't want to let Dixon look too good because then it will cost more to resign him. Or knowing how chummy BA and Ben are maybe BA is just trying to win Ben the MVP award by making everyone else look so bad. I know those sound like wacky conspiracy theories, but I found them almost easier to believe than a professional play-caller not being to do any better than that.

Djfan
09-19-2010, 11:50 PM
It's one thing to have criticism, it's another thing to blame Arians for almost everything. Seems to me that many fans don't want to give Arians credit for anything.

This is just not true. You keep bringing it up, but it won't make it true. I have given him credit for calls JUST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FIGURE ANYTHING OUT PAST ABSOLUTES can hear me.

He makes good play calls. He makes bad play calls. I think he makes more bad ones, particularly when good ones are there to call.

Please try another approach. This one is old and untrue.

BURGH86STEEL
09-20-2010, 05:51 AM
It's one thing to have criticism, it's another thing to blame Arians for almost everything. Seems to me that many fans don't want to give Arians credit for anything.

This is just not true. You keep bringing it up, but it won't make it true. I have given him credit for calls JUST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FIGURE ANYTHING OUT PAST ABSOLUTES can hear me.

He makes good play calls. He makes bad play calls. I think he makes more bad ones, particularly when good ones are there to call.

Please try another approach. This one is old and untrue.

It may not be true for you. There are fans that don't want to give him credit.

Good play calls or bad play calls is a subjective statement. Plus, you have to take into consideration the EXECUTION on the plays called. When blocking breaks down, WRs drop passes, penalties kill drives, ect. ect. should be taken into consideration. I agree with anyone who states they need to improve in the red zone and short yardage situations. It appears they are improving in 3rd and shorts this season.

Let me show you that he takes advantage of the talent on the team:

Ben Roethlisberger 506 337 4328 66.6 8.6 26 12 100.5

Rashard Mendenhall 242 1108 4.6 60 7

Hines Ward 95 1167 12.3 54 6
Santonio Holmes 79 1248 15.8 57 5
Heath Miller 76 789 10.4 41 6
Mike Wallace 39 756 19.4 60 6
Rashard Menden 25 261 10.4 26 1

This shows that he takes advantage of the talent on the team. Without the benefit of great Oline play. You can disagree but those numbers don't lie in this instance.

stlrz d
09-20-2010, 07:51 AM
Individual stats mean d!ck.

How'd his offense do in the red zone? Did the players suddenly forget to execute in the RZ or does his play calling suck?

I'll take the latter.

Djfan
09-20-2010, 08:12 AM
It's one thing to have criticism, it's another thing to blame Arians for almost everything. Seems to me that many fans don't want to give Arians credit for anything.

This is just not true. You keep bringing it up, but it won't make it true. I have given him credit for calls JUST TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T FIGURE ANYTHING OUT PAST ABSOLUTES can hear me.

He makes good play calls. He makes bad play calls. I think he makes more bad ones, particularly when good ones are there to call.

Please try another approach. This one is old and untrue.

It may not be true for you. There are fans that don't want to give him credit.

OK, so then if I am willing to be more honest than others about it, listen when I offer something, and don't just dismiss it with the broad brush. Also, be willing to hear others. They may just have substance to offer.


Good play calls or bad play calls is a subjective statement.

So then if he calls a QB sneak on 1st and ten from our own 20 yard line it's a good call if the QB executes it well? No. There are times for certain plays and times to not use them. It's what makes LeBeau (sp?) so amazing. He knows how to keep the opponent on their heels.


Plus, you have to take into consideration the EXECUTION on the plays called. When blocking breaks down, WRs drop passes, penalties kill drives, ect. ect. should be taken into consideration. I agree with anyone who states they need to improve in the red zone and short yardage situations. It appears they are improving in 3rd and shorts this season.

Let me show you that he takes advantage of the talent on the team:

Ben Roethlisberger 506 337 4328 66.6 8.6 26 12 100.5

Rashard Mendenhall 242 1108 4.6 60 7

Hines Ward 95 1167 12.3 54 6
Santonio Holmes 79 1248 15.8 57 5
Heath Miller 76 789 10.4 41 6
Mike Wallace 39 756 19.4 60 6
Rashard Menden 25 261 10.4 26 1

This shows that he takes advantage of the talent on the team. Without the benefit of great Oline play. You can disagree but those numbers don't lie in this instance.

I'll let others argue the stats. I'll just look for the play action more often, or flea flickers, or coffin corner passes, or posts to the fastest guy on the team, or a pass on first down, etc.

Admit it, yesterday was run, run, pass, punt. The plan was to let the D win it? Can you imagine that meeting?

Brucey A: "Hey Mike, let's play only seven different plays, not be too flashy, and hope that the defense is up to the task to win it for us. And, maybe you can get the special teams to be really good so we can rely on them too. Sound good?"

Tomlin: "Sounds great! I'll tell Sepulveda to warm up good this week."

The whole idea that the offense is doing a good job by not moving the ball is insane. Exploit weaknesses, create confusion, execute, out coach. Bruce A doesn't.

Tomlinator
09-20-2010, 09:29 AM
The offense put up some great individual numbers last year as has been pointed out. And it seems to be one of the few seasons that the majority of people didn't want to strangle Arians. The first two games of this year has most of us ready to throttle him again (QB issue notwithstanding). Was last year a statistical/emotional anomaly?

I can't seem to put my finger on it, but Arians is either a stubborn rockhead when it comes to adjustments or exhibits a lack of trust in all QBs not named Ben. The man has been coaching in various forms since 1978 and has 6-7 seasons as an NFL offensive coordinator. How do you not have a plan in place to overcome the 8-9 men in the box that the opposing D throws at you? Arians has to know that is coming, especially when the first game showed no reason to fear the passing attack.

Being in Houston I get to see the Texans alot. Did anyone else see Texans-Redskins? Houston faked the hand off and Shaub rolled the other way constantly. The D bit and he had time to find a receiver. It was a thing of beauty. If the D is up to stuff Mendenhall every down, why can't our coordinator show some imagination?

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 09:35 AM
The offense put up some great individual numbers last year as has been pointed out. And it seems to be one of the few seasons that the majority of people didn't want to strangle Arians. The first two games of this year has most of us ready to throttle him again (QB issue notwithstanding). Was last year a statistical/emotional anomaly?

I can't seem to put my finger on it, but Arians is either a stubborn rockhead when it comes to adjustments or exhibits a lack of trust in all QBs not named Ben. The man has been coaching in various forms since 1978 and has 6-7 seasons as an NFL offensive coordinator. How do you not have a plan in place to overcome the 8-9 men in the box that the opposing D throws at you? Arians has to know that is coming, especially when the first game showed no reason to fear the passing attack.

Being in Houston I get to see the Texans alot. Did anyone else see Texans-Redskins? Houston faked the hand off and Shaub rolled the other way constantly. The D bit and he had time to find a receiver. It was a thing of beauty. If the D is up to stuff Mendenhall every down, why can't our coordinator show some imagination?

Texans had to be fight back to win the game.

I don't understand why people are complaining about Arians when all we were trying to do was bleed the clock. Batch threw a TD and it was called back.

I can't believe people are whining after another win.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-20-2010, 09:44 AM
I'm sure we all have different opinions. I know this isn't the offense we have come to love with BB. However, the first two games have never had any sense of offensive urgency for the Steelers. With Dixon or Batch...There is no reason to force an issue and possibly create opportunities for the other team. Having a D like this and knowing that something happens game 5 is the driving force for the offensive gameplans we see. It won't change unless it needs to change in game. I won't be critical of the offensive game plan, playcalling, or statistics until BB comes back. This is a unique situation the Steelers are in and it is clearly evident in the first 2 games the Steelers "will not" gameplan on offense anything more than game management. The only way we will see anything different is when or if a two posession lead is on the scoreboard going into the 4th...We may see that change. Lefty's return will prompt different planning but it still won't be the wide open attack we see with Ben. We may see 1st down playaction or more passing on run downs but I don't expect to see Lefty in shotgun on 1st & 10 or the playcalling to be anything more than down & distance strategy between the 20's.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 09:47 AM
The offense put up some great individual numbers last year as has been pointed out. And it seems to be one of the few seasons that the majority of people didn't want to strangle Arians. The first two games of this year has most of us ready to throttle him again (QB issue notwithstanding). Was last year a statistical/emotional anomaly?

I can't seem to put my finger on it, but Arians is either a stubborn rockhead when it comes to adjustments or exhibits a lack of trust in all QBs not named Ben. The man has been coaching in various forms since 1978 and has 6-7 seasons as an NFL offensive coordinator. How do you not have a plan in place to overcome the 8-9 men in the box that the opposing D throws at you? Arians has to know that is coming, especially when the first game showed no reason to fear the passing attack.

Being in Houston I get to see the Texans alot. Did anyone else see Texans-Redskins? Houston faked the hand off and Shaub rolled the other way constantly. The D bit and he had time to find a receiver. It was a thing of beauty. If the D is up to stuff Mendenhall every down, why can't our coordinator show some imagination?

Texans had to be fight back to win the game.

I don't understand why people are complaining about Arians when all we were trying to do was bleed the clock. Batch threw a TD and it was called back.

I can't believe people are whining after another win.
Yet again, you moronically assert that because we won, Arians must be a wonderful OC. Did you watch the game at all? Our offense performed HORRIBLY that game. Our defense forced seven turnovers. SEVEN TURNOVERS. And all we could muster out of it was 12 points. I don't care who we had behind center, how many injuries we had to the line, or how "good" the Titans D supposedly is. That performance was just inexcusable.

Djfan
09-20-2010, 09:57 AM
Being in Houston I get to see the Texans alot. Did anyone else see Texans-Redskins? Houston faked the hand off and Shaub rolled the other way constantly. The D bit and he had time to find a receiver. It was a thing of beauty. If the D is up to stuff Mendenhall every down, why can't our coordinator show some imagination?

Can someone answer the man? It's a great question.

Tomlinator
09-20-2010, 10:00 AM
I'm sure we all have different opinions. I know this isn't the offense we have come to love with BB. However, the first two games have never had any sense of offensive urgency for the Steelers. With Dixon or Batch...There is no reason to force an issue and possibly create opportunities for the other team. Having a D like this and knowing that something happens game 5 is the driving force for the offensive gameplans we see. It won't change unless it needs to change in game. I won't be critical of the offensive game plan, playcalling, or statistics until BB comes back. This is a unique situation the Steelers are in and it is clearly evident in the first 2 games the Steelers "will not" gameplan on offense anything more than game management. The only way we will see anything different is when or if a two posession lead is on the scoreboard going into the 4th...We may see that change. Lefty's return will prompt different planning but it still won't be the wide open attack we see with Ben. We may see 1st down playaction or more passing on run downs but I don't expect to see Lefty in shotgun on 1st & 10 or the playcalling to be anything more than down & distance strategy between the 20's.

I'll give you the "game management" mentality, but 12 points off of 7 turnovers is not good enough and we shouldn't have had to sweat out the end of the game like that. The offense has to attack at some point - that has to factor in to the game mangement plan somewhere.

It was just frustrating to watchwhen you know the team can do so much more.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 10:05 AM
BA's does not have close to the overall talent on offense that Lebeau has on the defense. It's been that way for a long, long time for the Steelers. Ultimately, players win games in the NFL.

Ben's become a better QB in the offense. He's also become one of the best 2 minute QB's in the game in this offense. The offense has become more explosive. They attack every area and level of the field in the passing game. The run game is not as good as it once was. I believe that goes back to losing 3 probowl players on the Oline and a change in philosophy to a passing offense. It's what happens to teams when the have franchise QB's. You know, practice pass more then the run. They had issues in short yardage and that can be blamed mostly on execution up front. Yards don't win games but they are a factor in offensive efficiency. The offense is not as bad as some fans make it. I agree with fans that believe they need to improve in a few areas. That's why I believe BA is still with the team.

According to NFL.com, they were 12th in scoring offense in 09. If the execution were better, they could've easily been in the top 10 scoring offenses last season. I remember dropped TD passes, poor execution in the red zone on occasions, and at least 3 missed FG's (2 CHI and 1 CIN). The scoring offense was up from 20th in 2008. The run game averaged 4.2 YPA in 09 and 2008 3.7 YPA. Would you say they are headed in the right direction? The offense will take a step back until the best player returns.

The defense has been the backbone of the team, period.

When was the offense reliable in terms of point production? The last offense that was in top 10 in point production was 2007 (9th). Time before that was 2005 (9th). The last Steelers offense that was in the top 5 was 1995 (5th). Guess it depends how one defines reliable offense.

I hate to get caught up into this nonsense (attempting to blame a coach for ending a player's career). You see my point when I wrote some fans want to blame BA for everything? Forget that there are times that Ben holds the ball too long or has issues recognizing from where the blitz might be coming. Forget that the Oline, TE's, and RB's struggle executing their blocks at times. Bottom line, the nature of football dictates that a player's career can end on any given play. And I need to get a clue?
BA has one of the best QB's in the league, a young, upcoming running back, and talented receivers including Hines Ward and Mike Wallace, and Santonio Holmes in the past. He's had plenty of talent to work with. The fact that we are so inefficient shows he really doesn't know what to do with that talent. And Ben was always good before Arians came into the picture. Ben doesn't owe Arians crap for his performance. Nor does Hines Ward.

It's also not even about execution, it’s about Arians being totally incompetent with playcalling and not recognizing when we’re not executing. For example: when it's obvious the defense is preparing for the run, and we've had zero success running the ball up the middle, Arians still does it! Perfect example: yesterday!

No, the successful Steeler teams have always had a defense and a reliable offense as the backbone. It’s no coincidence we only started winning Superbowls again with Ben at the helm. PERIOD. And are you stupid, or do you just not read what I post? I said a reliable offense doesn't have to be something that's top-ten in point production. It's something you can count on to do well and win games. BA is not that kind of guy.

I also had a feeling you’d resort to the “Ben holds on too long” excuse. You said it yourself, he holds on too long AT TIMES. Not all the time. And yes, the line sucks. However, Ba doesn’t do anything to make up for it. He doesn’t call slants, screens, or try at all to adjust when we struggle. The Philadelphia Eagles game in 2008 was a perfect example. Ben got creamed in that game, but Arians didn’t resort to quick passing. He kept Ben doing 5 and 7 step drops. It led to one of our worst offensive performances of the past three years and Ben getting sacked SEVEN times. That is why BA stinks. And if you refuse to criticize him, even after a game like yesterday, then you really need to get a clue.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 10:07 AM
Being in Houston I get to see the Texans alot. Did anyone else see Texans-Redskins? Houston faked the hand off and Shaub rolled the other way constantly. The D bit and he had time to find a receiver. It was a thing of beauty. If the D is up to stuff Mendenhall every down, why can't our coordinator show some imagination?

Can someone answer the man? It's a great question.
Because Arians has no imagination. :stirpot

steelcurtain44
09-20-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm sure we all have different opinions. I know this isn't the offense we have come to love with BB. However, the first two games have never had any sense of offensive urgency for the Steelers. With Dixon or Batch...There is no reason to force an issue and possibly create opportunities for the other team. Having a D like this and knowing that something happens game 5 is the driving force for the offensive gameplans we see. It won't change unless it needs to change in game. I won't be critical of the offensive game plan, playcalling, or statistics until BB comes back. This is a unique situation the Steelers are in and it is clearly evident in the first 2 games the Steelers "will not" gameplan on offense anything more than game management. The only way we will see anything different is when or if a two posession lead is on the scoreboard going into the 4th...We may see that change. Lefty's return will prompt different planning but it still won't be the wide open attack we see with Ben. We may see 1st down playaction or more passing on run downs but I don't expect to see Lefty in shotgun on 1st & 10 or the playcalling to be anything more than down & distance strategy between the 20's.

I'll give you the "game management" mentality, but 12 points off of 7 turnovers is not good enough and we shouldn't have had to sweat out the end of the game like that. The offense has to attack at some point - that has to factor in to the game mangement plan somewhere.

It was just frustrating to watchwhen you know the team can do so much more.


It must have been good enough yesterday, because the Steelers are 2 and 0. There is no QB on this team. 2 more o-linemen were injured in that game. What the fu-- do you people want. Talking about the Texans? What they won, but so did the Steelers. If they need to pass that's what they will do. The did it in the 1st game, but yesterday it was clear that VY, and Johnson could'nt do nothing against that defense. They was just one of those games where you tell the offense, just don't screw it up, and that's what happened. You better beleive Tomlin told Arians not to try and throw the football.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 10:12 AM
I'll give you the "game management" mentality, but 12 points off of 7 turnovers is not good enough and we shouldn't have had to sweat out the end of the game like that. The offense has to attack at some point - that has to factor in to the game mangement plan somewhere.

It was just frustrating to watchwhen you know the team can do so much more.
But Tomlinator, we almost got a touchdown! Isn't that good enough??? :P

^^Actual argument used by someone in this thread. :stirpot

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-20-2010, 10:15 AM
I'm sure we all have different opinions. I know this isn't the offense we have come to love with BB. However, the first two games have never had any sense of offensive urgency for the Steelers. With Dixon or Batch...There is no reason to force an issue and possibly create opportunities for the other team. Having a D like this and knowing that something happens game 5 is the driving force for the offensive gameplans we see. It won't change unless it needs to change in game. I won't be critical of the offensive game plan, playcalling, or statistics until BB comes back. This is a unique situation the Steelers are in and it is clearly evident in the first 2 games the Steelers "will not" gameplan on offense anything more than game management. The only way we will see anything different is when or if a two posession lead is on the scoreboard going into the 4th...We may see that change. Lefty's return will prompt different planning but it still won't be the wide open attack we see with Ben. We may see 1st down playaction or more passing on run downs but I don't expect to see Lefty in shotgun on 1st & 10 or the playcalling to be anything more than down & distance strategy between the 20's.

I'll give you the "game management" mentality, but 12 points off of 7 turnovers is not good enough and we shouldn't have had to sweat out the end of the game like that. The offense has to attack at some point - that has to factor in to the game mangement plan somewhere.

It was just frustrating to watchwhen you know the team can do so much more.
I agree with you. It is frustrating. I'm sure it is frustrating to players. We have to put ourselves in the coaches shoes. It is about the bigger picture and we can see that is the coaches thoughts too. Can we be more productive even with Dixon or Batch attempting more passes? I think that it is possible. But we won't know...Until we "need" to know...And if the defense & ST continue to play this way...We will never know.

We know what the meetings sound like. BA still has a boss. I'm sure MT is telling BA "Don't lose the game." and he is telling DL "Win the game for us!" They are gameplanning to have the offense not lose the game and run the clock. They are flipping the field on defense and solid ST play. Frustrating??? Abso-freakin-lutely! Effective??? 2-0...How can we question it. How can we say "What if?" or "We should." If we are down by two TDs going inot the 4th and we hand off 3 times & punt...I will be the first to complain. Until then...I remove anything I could throw at my big screen from the room...Sit on my hands....And hydrate with plenty of alcohol.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 10:19 AM
They are gameplanning to have the offense not lose the game and run the clock. They are flipping the field on defense and solid ST play. Frustrating??? Abso-freakin-lutely! Effective??? 2-0...How can we question it. How can we say "What if?" or "We should." If we are down by two TDs going inot the 4th and we hand off 3 times & punt...I will be the first to complain. Until then...I remove anything I could throw at my big screen from the room...Sit on my hands....And hydrate with plenty of alcohol.
Two games does not automatically give me hope for a whole season, especially when the offense has yet to score a TD in regulation.

As far as being effective, our defense and ST's collapsed last year, and we went 9-7. You tell me if it's effective.

RuthlessBurgher
09-20-2010, 10:23 AM
There are plenty of times to blame Arians for plenty of things. But yesterday wasn't one of them. Yes, I know we only had 43 yards passing (a ridiculously low 2.5 yards per attempt average). Yes, I know that when your defense gets you 7 turnovers, you should blow that team out. Yes, I realize our offensive output in this game was pathetic.

But for a decent portion of that game, our offensive line looked like this: Hills-Kemoeatu-Pouncey-Legursky-Scott. Read those names again. That was essentially our offensive line in the 4th quarter of meaningless preseason games. Only one player with starting experience in this system before this year (and the one who is dumb as a box of rocks at that). Our 4th and 5th string tackles. A backup center playing RG. And a rookie center who showed the first chinks in his armor with multiple bad C-QB exchanges resulting in fumbles for both QB's.

And we were down to our 4th string QB as well. If Batch got hurt, then Antwaan #&@%ing Randle El is our QB. Sure, he was a QB at Indiana, but that was a lot of years ago, and there is a big difference between the NFL and the Big Ten, particular when Randle El likely got no practice snaps whatsoever this week and did not attend any of the QB meetings either.

I don't like run-run-pass-punt any more than anyone else here, but you really can't risk injuring the only QB that we had available during this game. I would have liked to have been able to throw downfield like everyone else, but safe short passes kept Batch healthy behind that line, and did not give the ball back to Tennessee like they were giving it to us.

I think we did make adjustments in this game. Once the coaching staff realized that our defense was having a ridiculously unbelieveably good performance, they adjusted the offense to "just don't screw it up" mode. Turtle ball, no matter how much we hated seeing it, was actually prudent in this case.

Slapstick
09-20-2010, 10:34 AM
I don't care who we had behind center, how many injuries we had to the line, or how "good" the Titans D supposedly is. That performance was just inexcusable.

We all understand that you don't care...but, whether or not you care, all of those things are still factors in what goes on during the course of the game...

Did I care last year when Polamalu and Smith were out and the D blew five 4Q leads? Not really...but, to say that those injuries weren't factors is patently ridiculous...

papillon
09-20-2010, 10:35 AM
Does playing with our 4th string quarterback and 4th and 5th tackles have anything to do with the offensive game plan or does that just get glossed over? Last season without the #1 DE (Smith) and #1 safety (Polamalu) the defense gave away 4 games late that the offense had put the Steelers in a position to win. No one bellyached about Lebeau's defensive game plan and as a matter of fact his=loyal supporters came to his defense and reminded everyone that he was missing to starting players.

The Steelers have won two games, the offense has sucked and been very bland, but it has put both Dixon and Batch in situations that are manageable, a few dropped passes, missed blocks etc have caused the Steelers to fail on third down not the coordinator.

The same with the defense last year, they played well for 2.5 quarters and then began to make mental mistakes and physical mistakes. It wasn't Lebeau's fault no more than it's Arians problem right now. Lets see what the offense does once Ben is back under center.

The Steelers are 2-0 and down to the 4th string QB and two tackles that weren't expecting to play much. The offense has sucked, but they haven't really put themselves in bad situations, from where I'm standing (sitting) there really isn't too much to complain about.

A 3-1 start with Ben not even allowed to be around the team has to be exceeding any expectations that the Steelers had (they won't admit that publicly). This start is very possible right now with Tampa next on the schedule (even though they are exceeding expectations as well). Personally, I thought winning one game was going to be a stretch for the Steelers and they could be 0-2 as easily as they are 2-0.

Until the offense struggles and becomes predictable with Ben I think Arians is doing a good job in putting the Steeler QBs in positions to make plays, they just haven't (and the WRs didn't help yesterday, including Ward).

Pappy

grotonsteel
09-20-2010, 10:45 AM
I would not blame Bruce Arians for pathetic performance by the offense. If he has 3-4th string players you simply can't put blame BA for bad performance.


I thought he was simply protecting Batch who is a 4th string QB. Hence Run Run Pass Punt sequence.

Titans D-line was pretty good throughout the game and Steelers O-line had what backup tackles and guard. Titans offense was doing nothing. Steelers just had to take care of the ball and not turnover the ball. Steelers were leading throughout the game they just did not have to do anything silly.

I am not saying Steelers don't need any offense but I would wait till Big Ben arrives before judging the offense and its OC.

JDSteeler
09-20-2010, 10:51 AM
The bottom line for me, is that we are still in "pre-season", and "vanilla-offense" mode.

This is the only way I can rationalize how bad the offensive play-calling is, and how
utterly lame BA's playbook is.

The positives are that LeBeau has the Defense playing great!!!! Special Teams is alot better than last year. We are 2-0 without Ben, and in first place in the AFCN!!!!

This is a sign of a good team...winning in the face of adversity.

IF we can get by TB, we are staring at a 4-0 start!!!! Baltiwhore Rats are beatable!!!!

All the pundits wrote us off, and said we'd be 1-3, or 0-4 before Ben got back.

As I said before, I could cuss all day long at the TV, trying to get Arianus to listen to
me, but that is just not possible.

Trust me, I'm not going to stop cussing, I'm just going to start cussing more at the
opponent!!!!!

It's sad as "F" that ALL of us knows what the next play is going to be. If we all know
what it's going to be, than that means the opposing defense does too. The players
are just going to have to execute it to the best of their abilities. That's it. Period and
end of story!!

However, I'd hope that someone on the offense would call Tomlin and BA to the carpet,
and discuss a few things that need to be addressed.

JD

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 10:55 AM
The offense put up some great individual numbers last year as has been pointed out. And it seems to be one of the few seasons that the majority of people didn't want to strangle Arians. The first two games of this year has most of us ready to throttle him again (QB issue notwithstanding). Was last year a statistical/emotional anomaly?

I can't seem to put my finger on it, but Arians is either a stubborn rockhead when it comes to adjustments or exhibits a lack of trust in all QBs not named Ben. The man has been coaching in various forms since 1978 and has 6-7 seasons as an NFL offensive coordinator. How do you not have a plan in place to overcome the 8-9 men in the box that the opposing D throws at you? Arians has to know that is coming, especially when the first game showed no reason to fear the passing attack.

Being in Houston I get to see the Texans alot. Did anyone else see Texans-Redskins? Houston faked the hand off and Shaub rolled the other way constantly. The D bit and he had time to find a receiver. It was a thing of beauty. If the D is up to stuff Mendenhall every down, why can't our coordinator show some imagination?

Texans had to be fight back to win the game.

I don't understand why people are complaining about Arians when all we were trying to do was bleed the clock. Batch threw a TD and it was called back.

I can't believe people are whining after another win.
Yet again, you moronically assert that because we won, Arians must be a wonderful OC. Did you watch the game at all? Our offense performed HORRIBLY that game. Our defense forced seven turnovers. SEVEN TURNOVERS. And all we could muster out of it was 12 points. I don't care who we had behind center, how many injuries we had to the line, or how "good" the Titans D supposedly is. That performance was just inexcusable.

I've have never said Arians is wonderful... LOL.

I'm just keeping it in perspective. We are 2-0 with rotating QB's and our D is playing lights out. Why is it so important for Arians to go downfield of press our QB's to make plays when they don't have to?

If we were behind all game and put up that type of performance I would agree with you..

We chose to play old school Princeton basketball, UNC four corners with the lead and we won.

Keep complaining though... it really makes for great monday morning banter after another win.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 11:04 AM
I would not blame Bruce Arians for pathetic performance by the offense. If he has 3-4th string players you simply can't put blame BA for bad performance.


I thought he was simply protecting Batch who is a 4th string QB. Hence Run Run Pass Punt sequence.

Titans D-line was pretty good throughout the game and Steelers O-line had what backup tackles and guard. Titans offense was doing nothing. Steelers just had to take care of the ball and not turnover the ball. Steelers were leading throughout the game they just did not have to do anything silly.

I am not saying Steelers don't need any offense but I would wait till Big Ben arrives before judging the offense and its OC.

:wft I can't believe it...

:Agree

the same people saying stats don't matter want meaningless stats over a win.

I'll take the win with 43 passing yards any day. It's not about style points.. it's about W's and I'll take them anyway we get them. I don't care if we win 2-0 on a safety.

Tomlinator
09-20-2010, 11:13 AM
I'm sure we all have different opinions. I know this isn't the offense we have come to love with BB. However, the first two games have never had any sense of offensive urgency for the Steelers. With Dixon or Batch...There is no reason to force an issue and possibly create opportunities for the other team. Having a D like this and knowing that something happens game 5 is the driving force for the offensive gameplans we see. It won't change unless it needs to change in game. I won't be critical of the offensive game plan, playcalling, or statistics until BB comes back. This is a unique situation the Steelers are in and it is clearly evident in the first 2 games the Steelers "will not" gameplan on offense anything more than game management. The only way we will see anything different is when or if a two posession lead is on the scoreboard going into the 4th...We may see that change. Lefty's return will prompt different planning but it still won't be the wide open attack we see with Ben. We may see 1st down playaction or more passing on run downs but I don't expect to see Lefty in shotgun on 1st & 10 or the playcalling to be anything more than down & distance strategy between the 20's.

I'll give you the "game management" mentality, but 12 points off of 7 turnovers is not good enough and we shouldn't have had to sweat out the end of the game like that. The offense has to attack at some point - that has to factor in to the game mangement plan somewhere.

It was just frustrating to watchwhen you know the team can do so much more.


It must have been good enough yesterday, because the Steelers are 2 and 0. There is no QB on this team. 2 more o-linemen were injured in that game. What the fu-- do you people want. Talking about the Texans? What they won, but so did the Steelers. If they need to pass that's what they will do. The did it in the 1st game, but yesterday it was clear that VY, and Johnson could'nt do nothing against that defense. They was just one of those games where you tell the offense, just don't screw it up, and that's what happened. You better beleive Tomlin told Arians not to try and throw the football.

A lot of folks are saying that Arians has been told or is playing the "don't lose the game" strategy. That really seems to be the case, but isn't that the same mentality that ends up losing games in the long run? Don't play to lose is not a vibe I want the offense to have.

I'll give you that yesterday things went sideways in a hurry. QB goes down, lineman all over the place. It was wonky. (I've always found the argument about replacements having to play equals being ineffective is just an excuse. These guys are professionals, have attended training camp, OTAs, and gone through pre-season and they can't get it together or trust the man next to them?)

Ahh, forget it. I'm starting to skew off target. I'm far from pessimistic, just concerned. The D is absolutely friggin' fantastic so far, and the results have got us to 2-0. But I'm not quite convinced based on the last two game performance that Ben is going to miraculously turn things around so easily on offense.

I think I'll take Just-Plain-Nasty's advice and hydrate more frequently on Sundays.

Iron Shiek
09-20-2010, 11:24 AM
I don't think we can gleen anything from yesterdays game offensively whatsoever. Be it Arians sucking or which qb is going to be most effective the next two games. Just an odd game that I feel the team is fortunate to have won honestly. You don't go on the road like that and totally dominate a team defensively...unless you are the Pittsburgh "effing!" Steelers. :Steel

BURGH86STEEL
09-20-2010, 11:30 AM
BA's does not have close to the overall talent on offense that Lebeau has on the defense. It's been that way for a long, long time for the Steelers. Ultimately, players win games in the NFL.

Ben's become a better QB in the offense. He's also become one of the best 2 minute QB's in the game in this offense. The offense has become more explosive. They attack every area and level of the field in the passing game. The run game is not as good as it once was. I believe that goes back to losing 3 probowl players on the Oline and a change in philosophy to a passing offense. It's what happens to teams when the have franchise QB's. You know, practice pass more then the run. They had issues in short yardage and that can be blamed mostly on execution up front. Yards don't win games but they are a factor in offensive efficiency. The offense is not as bad as some fans make it. I agree with fans that believe they need to improve in a few areas. That's why I believe BA is still with the team.

According to NFL.com, they were 12th in scoring offense in 09. If the execution were better, they could've easily been in the top 10 scoring offenses last season. I remember dropped TD passes, poor execution in the red zone on occasions, and at least 3 missed FG's (2 CHI and 1 CIN). The scoring offense was up from 20th in 2008. The run game averaged 4.2 YPA in 09 and 2008 3.7 YPA. Would you say they are headed in the right direction? The offense will take a step back until the best player returns.

The defense has been the backbone of the team, period.

When was the offense reliable in terms of point production? The last offense that was in top 10 in point production was 2007 (9th). Time before that was 2005 (9th). The last Steelers offense that was in the top 5 was 1995 (5th). Guess it depends how one defines reliable offense.

I hate to get caught up into this nonsense (attempting to blame a coach for ending a player's career). You see my point when I wrote some fans want to blame BA for everything? Forget that there are times that Ben holds the ball too long or has issues recognizing from where the blitz might be coming. Forget that the Oline, TE's, and RB's struggle executing their blocks at times. Bottom line, the nature of football dictates that a player's career can end on any given play. And I need to get a clue?


BA has one of the best QB's in the league, a young, upcoming running back, and talented receivers including Hines Ward and Mike Wallace, and Santonio Holmes in the past. He's had plenty of talent to work with. The fact that we are so inefficient shows he really doesn't know what to do with that talent. And Ben was always good before Arians came into the picture. Ben doesn't owe Arians crap for his performance. Nor does Hines Ward.


Just not enough talent to work with along the Oline. Overall, the offense was not inefficient. However, they can improve in a few areas. It is not as bad as you make it sound. Ben was good before BA became OC. One can argue that he's take his game to the next level under BA.


It's also not even about execution, it’s about Arians being totally incompetent with playcalling and not recognizing when we’re not executing. For example: when it's obvious the defense is preparing for the run, and we've had zero success running the ball up the middle, Arians still does it! Perfect example: yesterday!

There are many times when it is about execution. If he is totally incompetent, how did they ever have success? How did they make playoffs or win SB?

No, the successful Steeler teams have always had a defense and a reliable offense as the backbone. It’s no coincidence we only started winning Superbowls again with Ben at the helm. PERIOD. And are you stupid, or do you just not read what I post? I said a reliable offense doesn't have to be something that's top-ten in point production. It's something you can count on to do well and win games. BA is not that kind of guy.

It depends how one defines reliable offense. The defense is the most consistent force on the team. Offense was not as consistent. Defense is the one thing that this team usually counts on to win. They made playoffs 2 out of 3 years with him as OC and won a SB with BA as OC. Does that make him that type of guy?

I also had a feeling you’d resort to the “Ben holds on too long” excuse. You said it yourself, he holds on too long AT TIMES. Not all the time. And yes, the line sucks. However, Ba doesn’t do anything to make up for it. He doesn’t call slants, screens, or try at all to adjust when we struggle. The Philadelphia Eagles game in 2008 was a perfect example. Ben got creamed in that game, but Arians didn’t resort to quick passing. He kept Ben doing 5 and 7 step drops. It led to one of our worst offensive performances of the past three years and Ben getting sacked SEVEN times. That is why BA stinks. And if you refuse to criticize him, even after a game like yesterday, then you really need to get a clue.
Not using anything as an excuse. It is what it is brother. The line sucks says it all. Not much coaches can do when they don't have the players. Lebeau has better talent to work with on defense. See what happened when Lebeau when from Troy to Tyrone Carter? The NFL is mostly about the players. He's called slants(some responsiblity for this goes on QB and WR's abiltity to recognize blitz), i've seen screens(maybe not as much as in the past due to the Oline). Dude, one or a few bad games does not make or break players or coaches. Consequently, they went on to win the SB in 08 with BA as OC. It is possible that they don't win the SB in 08 if BA was not the OC. He's been Ben's main tutor in the 2 minute offense. That was a huge reason they won the SB in 08.

My point is that the offense has not been as bad as some fans claim. That is why BA continues to have a job. The goal is improvement. Tomlin realizes the offense is a couple of areas away from that goal. I believe they need to find a really good right OG and possibly a RT if Colon can't return to form. Not sure how long Kemo is in their plans but there are times he gets fbeat badly. He does well pulling but there are times he struggles in pass protection.

Difficult to believe you want to criticise him for all the injuries and adversity the offense had against the Titans. Just shows how h e ll bent you are in proving your point that he is bad. I can care less if BA is the OC. If he goes, he goes. My point is be fair to the guy. He's done some good things with the offense. There are some things that are not so good. Overall, I think he's done a good job. Especially, considering that the Oline has/is going through a transition period.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-20-2010, 11:37 AM
They are gameplanning to have the offense not lose the game and run the clock. They are flipping the field on defense and solid ST play. Frustrating??? Abso-freakin-lutely! Effective??? 2-0...How can we question it. How can we say "What if?" or "We should." If we are down by two TDs going inot the 4th and we hand off 3 times & punt...I will be the first to complain. Until then...I remove anything I could throw at my big screen from the room...Sit on my hands....And hydrate with plenty of alcohol.
Two games does not automatically give me hope for a whole season, especially when the offense has yet to score a TD in regulation.

As far as being effective, our defense and ST's collapsed last year, and we went 9-7. You tell me if it's effective.

And if anyone is guaging what our offense will look like based on these two games you must be unaware of what is going on in the Steelers organization since the end of the 2009 season. The Steelers defense and ST have been effective in the first two games so how does what happen in 2009 have any impact on 2010? In using your philosophy then, you shouldn't have a care in the world about the offense because last year was one of the Steelers most productive offensive outputs....EVER.

Panic at this point given the situation is really senseless. The Steelers are just doing what is necessary to win games. They are doing the right thing...At the right time. There has not been a situation yet where they needed to go on the offensive. So why do it if there is no need to? Play the odds & limit the risks.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 12:05 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":3ayll1e6]
They are gameplanning to have the offense not lose the game and run the clock. They are flipping the field on defense and solid ST play. Frustrating??? Abso-freakin-lutely! Effective??? 2-0...How can we question it. How can we say "What if?" or "We should." If we are down by two TDs going inot the 4th and we hand off 3 times & punt...I will be the first to complain. Until then...I remove anything I could throw at my big screen from the room...Sit on my hands....And hydrate with plenty of alcohol.
Two games does not automatically give me hope for a whole season, especially when the offense has yet to score a TD in regulation.

As far as being effective, our defense and ST's collapsed last year, and we went 9-7. You tell me if it's effective.

And if anyone is guaging what our offense will look like based on these two games you must be unaware of what is going on in the Steelers organization since the end of the 2009 season. The Steelers defense and ST have been effective in the first two games so how does what happen in 2009 have any impact on 2010? In using your philosophy then, you shouldn't have a care in the world about the offense because last year was one of the Steelers most productive offensive outputs....EVER.

Panic at this point given the situation is really senseless. The Steelers are just doing what is necessary to win games. They are doing the right thing...At the right time. There has not been a situation yet where they needed to go on the offensive. So why do it if there is no need to? Play the odds & limit the risks.[/quote:3ayll1e6]

Common sense....

Mister Pittsburgh
09-20-2010, 12:26 PM
Not kidding around here...I would bet we could sign Jeff Garcia or even Joey Harrington off the street, give them the first team reps for the week, and our offensive production would be 2x as good if not more. Neither Batch or Dixon should be a QB in this league, even a backup QB. Dixon looks like it is his first year in the NFL and Batch is just too old. And who didn't know that Leftwich being injured was a real possibility considering he has been injured his entire career.

papillon
09-20-2010, 12:38 PM
The bottom line for me, is that we are still in "pre-season", and "vanilla-offense" mode.

With the experience and skill level that the Steelers have trotted out at the quarterback position they need to be in vanilla offense mode. I would add some roll out or "moving the pocket" packages for Dixon, but that's about it. The offense right now just needs to be sure that they don't lose the game. Let the STs and defense do their thing.

This is the only way I can rationalize how bad the offensive play-calling is, and how
utterly lame BA's playbook is.

You want BA to hand Dixon, Lefty or Batch the same playbook as Ben? Why? Which one of them can play quarterback at the speed and with the same decision making ability as Ben?

The positives are that LeBeau has the Defense playing great!!!! Special Teams is alot better than last year. We are 2-0 without Ben, and in first place in the AFCN!!!!

This is a sign of a good team...winning in the face of adversity.

Absolutely, regardless of how those wins come about.

IF we can get by TB, we are staring at a 4-0 start!!!! Baltiwhore Rats are beatable!!!!

All the pundits wrote us off, and said we'd be 1-3, or 0-4 before Ben got back.

The Steelers could just as easily be 0-2 right now, that's the way it goes in the NFL.

As I said before, I could cuss all day long at the TV, trying to get Arianus to listen to
me, but that is just not possible.

Trust me, I'm not going to stop cussing, I'm just going to start cussing more at the
opponent!!!!!

It's sad as "F" that ALL of us knows what the next play is going to be. If we all know
what it's going to be, than that means the opposing defense does too. The players
are just going to have to execute it to the best of their abilities. That's it. Period and
end of story!!

You think you know what the next play will be. You could probably guess and be correct 25% of the time, unless, you believe calling the next play involves determining if the play is a running play or a passing play, then you'd probably get it right 50% of the time.

However, I'd hope that someone on the offense would call Tomlin and BA to the carpet,
and discuss a few things that need to be addressed.

Yea, Mike Tomlin is the problem here. He has a team playing with their 4th string quarterback, 3rd string guard, a rookie center and their 4th and 5th string tackles sitting at 2-0 and he's the problem.

JD

Pappy

cruzer8
09-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Arians is an idiot. Period.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Not kidding around here...I would bet we could sign Jeff Garcia or even Joey Harrington off the street, give them the first team reps for the week, and our offensive production would be 2x as good if not more. Neither Batch or Dixon should be a QB in this league, even a backup QB. Dixon looks like it is his first year in the NFL and Batch is just too old. And who didn't know that Leftwich being injured was a real possibility considering he has been injured his entire career.

Batch looked good IMO.

Djfan
09-20-2010, 02:26 PM
Is it too much to ask that we do something DIFFERENT than what we were doing all game, in order to get a first down?

Really would love to see a breakdown on play calling. This will clearly show the validity of the "execution" argument. If BA called a fair amount of plays to the outside, screens, slants, playaction, etc., and they were just not played well, then fine. If he called only a small percentage of these plays, and the majority were run up the middle, then the issue is clear.

buckeyehoppy
09-20-2010, 02:28 PM
We might have good game managers, sans a few tools, with Charlie, DDix and Lefty. But three points by Skippy gets trumped by six by the 11 on O every time.

Through two games, Skippy has 7 FGs and the O has ONE TD (and the TD came on a broken play in OT).

Kids, we might have two wins. But those stats won't be getting it done for too much longer and, as I said in another thread, I don't know if Ben's return magically makes that disparity in production go away. Ben is the best QB we have. But he is far from being a miracle worker in BA's offense (frankly, there aren't that many QBs who could turn BA's p!$$ water into wine from a production stand point). Unless Ben starts shrugging off BA's vanilla O after a few games or Coach Tomlin pushes him aside and begins to make at least some of the offensive calls, I'm afraid we're going to see a very average O all season long.

Yeah, the players still need to make the plays, and we have a few players who can do just that. But, if it were that simple, the HC would be running the show and wouldn't need an OC or offensive position coaches. IOW, BA needs to do his job, too. So far, we haven't seen jack schitt from this bozo.

The opposing D knows what's coming almost all the time. It's also not really difficult to edge rush our line. That does point to technique from the OL. But positioning, which is improved by coaching, isn't there either. It also doesn't help that our QBs require about 5 seconds to get a pass play off. That points almost entirely at the game plan and coaching.

Bottom line, until BA is launched, we're going to see more of the same. Hopefully, we have no major injuries from our D.

Djfan
09-20-2010, 02:32 PM
Well said Buck.

My thinking is that with this D, and the talent on offense, we should have won quite a few games over the last three years by 21 points or more. Can't be done? The Cheats do it. We dominate on D, and the Cheats dominate on both (sometimes).

The idea that a good head coach will say that it's OK for a team to have an identity of being a so-so offense because the defense is so great, is simply absurd. What coach wouldn't want to have BOTH aspects (and the STs) be dominant?

That argument just doesn't add up.

RuthlessBurgher
09-20-2010, 02:41 PM
We have two world championships since 2005. New England may win some games by 21 points or more, but they do not have any championships during that time. New England's time ended in the first half of the last decade. Screw them. They are not the gold standard.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 02:53 PM
We might have good game managers, sans a few tools, with Charlie, DDix and Lefty. But three points by Skippy gets trumped by six by the 11 on O every time.

Through two games, Skippy has 7 FGs and the O has ONE TD (and the TD came on a broken play in OT).

Kids, we might have two wins. But those stats won't be getting it done for too much longer and, as I said in another thread, I don't know if Ben's return magically makes that disparity in production go away. Ben is the best QB we have. But he is far from being a miracle worker in BA's offense (frankly, there aren't that many QBs who could turn BA's p!$$ water into wine from a production stand point). Unless Ben starts shrugging off BA's vanilla O after a few games or Coach Tomlin pushes him aside and begins to make at least some of the offensive calls, I'm afraid we're going to see a very average O all season long.

Yeah, the players still need to make the plays, and we have a few players who can do just that. But, if it were that simple, the HC would be running the show and wouldn't need an OC or offensive position coaches. IOW, BA needs to do his job, too. So far, we haven't seen jack schitt from this bozo.

The opposing D knows what's coming almost all the time. It's also not really difficult to edge rush our line. That does point to technique from the OL. But positioning, which is improved by coaching, isn't there either. It also doesn't help that our QBs require about 5 seconds to get a pass play off. That points almost entirely at the game plan and coaching.

Bottom line, until BA is launched, we're going to see more of the same. Hopefully, we have no major injuries from our D.


do you honestly think our O will have problems once Ben returns? Be honest... :wink:

Djfan
09-20-2010, 02:56 PM
We have two world championships since 2005. New England may win some games by 21 points or more, but they do not have any championships during that time. New England's time ended in the first half of the last decade. Screw them. They are not the gold standard.


Not making them the gold standard, but I will try to be clearer. I think the Steelers have more talent on Offense than the Cheats. I think our D is better. Therefore, I think that the expectation that the Steelers pull off a few blow outs each year is reasonable, since the Cheats seem to do it.

My assertion is that BA is holding the O back by his play calling.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 03:02 PM
We have two world championships since 2005. New England may win some games by 21 points or more, but they do not have any championships during that time. New England's time ended in the first half of the last decade. Screw them. They are not the gold standard.


Not making them the gold standard, but I will try to be clearer. I think the Steelers have more talent on Offense than the Cheats. I think our D is better. Therefore, I think that the expectation that the Steelers pull off a few blow outs each year is reasonable, since the Cheats seem to do it.

My assertion is that BA is holding the O back by his play calling.


I have been frustrated by our teams lack of blowouts against sub par teams but I think our philosophy is the exact opposite of the *'s.

They try to embarrass teams to make other teams intimidated by the lopsided wins. We just punish and beat teams into submission.

and like it was just mentioned. What have they won with all there blowouts the last few years? The problem with the *'s lately has been there play when the game is close. They don't respond like the old *'s did and I think blowing teams out leads to losses like they had in the playoffs. They lost one guy and folded like a cheap suit.

Djfan
09-20-2010, 03:10 PM
We have two world championships since 2005. New England may win some games by 21 points or more, but they do not have any championships during that time. New England's time ended in the first half of the last decade. Screw them. They are not the gold standard.


Not making them the gold standard, but I will try to be clearer. I think the Steelers have more talent on Offense than the Cheats. I think our D is better. Therefore, I think that the expectation that the Steelers pull off a few blow outs each year is reasonable, since the Cheats seem to do it.

My assertion is that BA is holding the O back by his play calling.


I have been frustrated by our teams lack of blowouts against sub par teams but I think our philosophy is the exact opposite of the *'s.

They try to embarrass teams to make other teams intimidated by the lopsided wins. We just punish and beat teams into submission.

and like it was just mentioned. What have they won with all there blowouts the last few years? The problem with the *'s lately has been there play when the game is close. They don't respond like the old *'s did and I think blowing teams out leads to losses like they had in the playoffs. They lost one guy and folded like a cheap suit.


I am good with the intimidation thing. But to say that our philosophy is to NOT blow teams out, so let's keep it close, just doesn't add up to me. Any coach would love to have a team own the opponent in all three aspects. We regularly don't do this on offense. I can't imagine that this is a planned thing.

steelnavy
09-20-2010, 03:11 PM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 03:18 PM
do you honestly think our O will have problems once Ben returns? Be honest... :wink:
We had problems in 07, 08, and 09. So yes, I think they will. :lol:

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 03:20 PM
I don't care who we had behind center, how many injuries we had to the line, or how "good" the Titans D supposedly is. That performance was just inexcusable.

We all understand that you don't care...but, whether or not you care, all of those things are still factors in what goes on during the course of the game...

Did I care last year when Polamalu and Smith were out and the D blew five 4Q leads? Not really...but, to say that those injuries weren't factors is patently ridiculous...
Did I say they weren't factors? No. I'm saying that when your D forces seven turnovers, many of which put us in great field position, I think we can ask for a little more than 12 points to come from it.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 03:26 PM
We have two world championships since 2005. New England may win some games by 21 points or more, but they do not have any championships during that time. New England's time ended in the first half of the last decade. Screw them. They are not the gold standard.


Not making them the gold standard, but I will try to be clearer. I think the Steelers have more talent on Offense than the Cheats. I think our D is better. Therefore, I think that the expectation that the Steelers pull off a few blow outs each year is reasonable, since the Cheats seem to do it.

My assertion is that BA is holding the O back by his play calling.


I have been frustrated by our teams lack of blowouts against sub par teams but I think our philosophy is the exact opposite of the *'s.

They try to embarrass teams to make other teams intimidated by the lopsided wins. We just punish and beat teams into submission.

and like it was just mentioned. What have they won with all there blowouts the last few years? The problem with the *'s lately has been there play when the game is close. They don't respond like the old *'s did and I think blowing teams out leads to losses like they had in the playoffs. They lost one guy and folded like a cheap suit.


I am good with the intimidation thing. But to say that our philosophy is to NOT blow teams out, so let's keep it close, just doesn't add up to me. Any coach would love to have a team own the opponent in all three aspects. We regularly don't do this on offense. I can't imagine that this is a planned thing.

When have you ever seen the Steelers up by 14 and throwing deep? I'm talking Cowher and Tomlin...

once we were up 11 Cowher took all the air out of the football. We did the same thing yesterday. Only the FF fans and the delusional are looking at the offensive production as a concern given our QB situation.

Sure we would like to score more points on offense but we aren't going to put our QB or team in jeopardy if we don't have to.

8 and 9 in the box and we ran the ball. if we passed and it was intercepted or we were sacked and fumbled people would complain about BA too...

If the TD Batch threw wasn't called back people would still blame BA fro not calling that play 2 more times on previous drives.

2-0 and people are asking what is wrong? LOL...

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 03:26 PM
do you honestly think our O will have problems once Ben returns? Be honest... :wink:
We had problems in 07, 08, and 09. So yes, I think they will. :lol:

2008 ended great... I wouldn't mind having those problems again in the playoffs.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 03:33 PM
And if anyone is guaging what our offense will look like based on these two games you must be unaware of what is going on in the Steelers organization since the end of the 2009 season. The Steelers defense and ST have been effective in the first two games so how does what happen in 2009 have any impact on 2010? In using your philosophy then, you shouldn't have a care in the world about the offense because last year was one of the Steelers most productive offensive outputs....EVER.

Panic at this point given the situation is really senseless. The Steelers are just doing what is necessary to win games. They are doing the right thing...At the right time. There has not been a situation yet where they needed to go on the offensive. So why do it if there is no need to? Play the odds & limit the risks.
Productive, in what way? Yards? Yards don't win games. Points? We had 23 points per game last year, only 1.3 more than 2008, and less than what we attained in 07 (24.6). We also were less efficient with our scoring. In 2007, we ranked 5th. 2008, we fell to 15th, and we fell again to 18th in 2009. In other words, we've been getting worse every year. Sound like the right direction to you?

And in these first two games, I've seen the same story I saw from 2007-2009: bad playcalling, poor decision-making, and a plain unreliable offense.

Limiting the risks involves making good decisions and doing what it takes to keep the ball OUT of our opponent's hands. Running the ball up the middle against a stacked Titans box and going 3-out is not limiting the risks, especially when it keeps the game close and gives them an opportunity to tie it up - which is precisely what happened.

Not having Ben out there merely exposes just how incompetent Arians is. We don't have his talent to make up for Arians' ineptitude.

Slapstick
09-20-2010, 03:35 PM
Personally, I have no doubt that there will be differences when Roethlisberger comes back...

The offense was built around him...not Dixon, Leftwich or Batch...

Just like when Polamalu was lost last year...you can expect the replacement to come in and perform at the same level, but you aren't being realistic...

However horrendous the offense has been, the personnel has not allowed the game plan to encompass more than the most conservative and vanilla aspects of the offense...

And, if you really believe that a QB like Garcia or Harrington could come in and learn the offense better than Dixon, Batch or Leftwich within a week, you are either delusional or just not telling the truth...

I would love to see more designed runs and rollouts with Dixon..but, with Leftwich off the roster and Batch backing him up, they minimized the risk...

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 03:35 PM
do you honestly think our O will have problems once Ben returns? Be honest... :wink:
We had problems in 07, 08, and 09. So yes, I think they will. :lol:

2008 ended great... I wouldn't mind having those problems again in the playoffs.
Oh so you'd rather have a bumbling offense that can't run and gets Ben killed and needs the D and Ben to bail them out. Or are you already forgetting that our defense had to score one touchdown for us in the Superbowl?

Oh, how did 2007 and 2009 end? :lol:

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 03:50 PM
Just not enough talent to work with along the Oline. Overall, the offense was not inefficient. However, they can improve in a few areas. It is not as bad as you make it sound. Ben was good before BA became OC. One can argue that he's take his game to the next level under BA.

Oh, so we're fine just because it's "not as bad" as I think it is? Way to put me at ease.

There are many times when it is about execution. If he is totally incompetent, how did they ever have success? How did they make playoffs or win SB?
I could think of some reasons: a playmaking QB, great players on offense (minus the O-line), a great defense to bail them out, and a little bit of luck.

It depends how one defines reliable offense. The defense is the most consistent force on the team. Offense was not as consistent. Defense is the one thing that this team usually counts on to win. They made playoffs 2 out of 3 years with him as OC and won a SB with BA as OC. Does that make him that type of guy?
Offense HAS been consistent in the past. In the 70's, we were one of the most dominant running teams of the decade. In the Bettis era, we were also a great running team. We just lacked a playmaking QB to go with that running game until Ben came along. But at the same time, we could count on the running game to keep the ball in our hands and grind out points.

Not using anything as an excuse. It is what it is brother. The line sucks says it all. Not much coaches can do when they don't have the players. Lebeau has better talent to work with on defense. See what happened when Lebeau when from Troy to Tyrone Carter? The NFL is mostly about the players. He's called slants(some responsiblity for this goes on QB and WR's abiltity to recognize blitz), i've seen screens(maybe not as much as in the past due to the Oline). Dude, one or a few bad games does not make or break players or coaches. Consequently, they went on to win the SB in 08 with BA as OC. It is possible that they don't win the SB in 08 if BA was not the OC. He's been Ben's main tutor in the 2 minute offense. That was a huge reason they won the SB in 08.

My point is that the offense has not been as bad as some fans claim. That is why BA continues to have a job. The goal is improvement. Tomlin realizes the offense is a couple of areas away from that goal. I believe they need to find a really good right OG and possibly a RT if Colon can't return to form. Not sure how long Kemo is in their plans but there are times he gets fbeat badly. He does well pulling but there are times he struggles in pass protection.

Difficult to believe you want to criticise him for all the injuries and adversity the offense had against the Titans. Just shows how h e ll bent you are in proving your point that he is bad. I can care less if BA is the OC. If he goes, he goes. My point is be fair to the guy. He's done some good things with the offense. There are some things that are not so good. Overall, I think he's done a good job. Especially, considering that the Oline has/is going through a transition period.

It IS an excuse when you bring it up to divert attention from Arians. Plus, he wasn't Ben's tutor, Ken Anderson was. And again, Ben was always a good QB. You imply that because Arians was our OC in 2008, we wouldn't have won the SB without him. But that's easily turned around: if he wasn't our OC in 07 and 09, would we have gone further into the post-season? It's all conjecture.

And the fact that he's adjusted periodically doesn't make up for all the times he's hurt our chances because he hasn't adjusted, or makes the wrong adjustments. It sounds like you want me to give him credit for not being completely incompetent. Wrong. And for the last time, I'm not blaming him for our O-line stinking. We just have crappy players. However, I DO blame him for doing very little to make up for it.

feltdizz
09-20-2010, 04:11 PM
do you honestly think our O will have problems once Ben returns? Be honest... :wink:
We had problems in 07, 08, and 09. So yes, I think they will. :lol:

2008 ended great... I wouldn't mind having those problems again in the playoffs.
Oh so you'd rather have a bumbling offense that can't run and gets Ben killed and needs the D and Ben to bail them out. Or are you already forgetting that our defense had to score one touchdown for us in the Superbowl?

Oh, how did 2007 and 2009 end? :lol:

The same defense that scored a TD also gave up a quick one in the SB before Ben worked his magic.

We now have Pouncey at Center and Redman as the short yardage and our young WR corps is impressive.

We won't win the SB every year but we usually win it every 2 to 3 years given our recent history.

Cheer up RickT... we are 2-0.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-20-2010, 05:16 PM
Productive, in what way? Yards? Yards don't win games. Points? We had 23 points per game last year, only 1.3 more than 2008, and less than what we attained in 07 (24.6). We also were less efficient with our scoring. In 2007, we ranked 5th. 2008, we fell to 15th, and we fell again to 18th in 2009. In other words, we've been getting worse every year. Sound like the right direction to you?

And in these first two games, I've seen the same story I saw from 2007-2009: bad playcalling, poor decision-making, and a plain unreliable offense.

Limiting the risks involves making good decisions and doing what it takes to keep the ball OUT of our opponent's hands. Running the ball up the middle against a stacked Titans box and going 3-out is not limiting the risks, especially when it keeps the game close and gives them an opportunity to tie it up - which is precisely what happened.

Not having Ben out there merely exposes just how incompetent Arians is. We don't have his talent to make up for Arians' ineptitude.

Exactly the way I thought you would go. Make an argument using your points about referencing last season...Nothing...Nada...No comment...Here comes the stat hound. You do know that stats have counter effects. This has nothing to do with it but I will humor you since you worked so hard on the stats. You should put them up against the most important stats, points allowed.

09-(12TH)PPG=23.0 (12TH)PA=20.2
08-(20TH)PPG=21.7 (1ST)PA=13.9
07-(9TH)PPG=24.6 (2ND)PA=16.8

Hmmm...Interesting. It seems BA's offense only had at worse a 2.9 per game drop over the last three years while there was a 6.3 increase on defense. All the way back to 2000, the Steelers never had a better PPG that the 07 24.6. The stat with the real impact is PA. I'm not a BA fan. But he is doing what he has to do...With what he got. I'll be critical of him if he is still doing it when BB returns. Right now...It is a coaches game over the first 4 weeks and they get passing grades.

Running the ball is the safest odds regardless of how many are in the box. You crush your own argument when you say "especially when it keeps the game close". That is the whole logic when you have an offense that is not capable of coming from behind. Don't turn the ball over and give the other team more posessions or field position. You have a stellar defense that will gain you field position and create turnovers & more chances to put points on the board. Let them make the mistakes. You have no reason to push the issue.

Honestly, if you really have a problem with what this offense is doing right now being 2-0...I don't think you understand football. Make this argument when he has a QB.

SteelTorch
09-20-2010, 09:46 PM
Exactly the way I thought you would go. Make an argument using your points about referencing last season...Nothing...Nada...No comment...Here comes the stat hound. You do know that stats have counter effects. This has nothing to do with it but I will humor you since you worked so hard on the stats. You should put them up against the most important stats, points allowed.

09-(12TH)PPG=23.0 (12TH)PA=20.2
08-(20TH)PPG=21.7 (1ST)PA=13.9
07-(9TH)PPG=24.6 (2ND)PA=16.8

Hmmm...Interesting. It seems BA's offense only had at worse a 2.9 per game drop over the last three years while there was a 6.3 increase on defense. All the way back to 2000, the Steelers never had a better PPG that the 07 24.6. The stat with the real impact is PA. I'm not a BA fan. But he is doing what he has to do...With what he got. I'll be critical of him if he is still doing it when BB returns. Right now...It is a coaches game over the first 4 weeks and they get passing grades.

Running the ball is the safest odds regardless of how many are in the box. You crush your own argument when you say "especially when it keeps the game close". That is the whole logic when you have an offense that is not capable of coming from behind. Don't turn the ball over and give the other team more posessions or field position. You have a stellar defense that will gain you field position and create turnovers & more chances to put points on the board. Let them make the mistakes. You have no reason to push the issue.

Honestly, if you really have a problem with what this offense is doing right now being 2-0...I don't think you understand football. Make this argument when he has a QB.
Yeah, the defense took a dive in 2009. No argument here. So what's your point? Just because our defense didn't play as well doesn't mean it's okay if Arians' offense is steadily getting worse. Maybe stick to the subject, if you can?

No, running the ball when eight are stacked is not safest - you get too conservative, you don't get those crucial first downs, and you give the opposing team a chance to tie or win. Your argument is pretty much null and void because (I don't know what game you were watching) we weren't keeping the ball in our hands and we weren't keeping them in bad field position. We had a total of seven first downs. SEVEN - to Tennessee's 14. That's acceptable to you? Besides, you saw it yourself - Tennessee came quite close to tying the game up toward the end.

So no, BA wasn't doing what needed to be done. Or are you content with just barely scraping by? I'll credit the defense with giving us a 2-0 record right now. The only thing I'll credit BA for is not totally screwing things up.

By the way, BA does have a QB. He's had Batch and Dixon. You may have a point if those two were bad backups, but they're not. Both are mediocre at worst. Ben being out is no excuse for the offense to be doing this poorly.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-21-2010, 09:40 AM
Yeah, the defense took a dive in 2009. No argument here. So what's your point? Just because our defense didn't play as well doesn't mean it's okay if Arians' offense is steadily getting worse. Maybe stick to the subject, if you can?

No, running the ball when eight are stacked is not safest - you get too conservative, you don't get those crucial first downs, and you give the opposing team a chance to tie or win. Your argument is pretty much null and void because (I don't know what game you were watching) we weren't keeping the ball in our hands and we weren't keeping them in bad field position. We had a total of seven first downs. SEVEN - to Tennessee's 14. That's acceptable to you? Besides, you saw it yourself - Tennessee came quite close to tying the game up toward the end.

So no, BA wasn't doing what needed to be done. Or are you content with just barely scraping by? I'll credit the defense with giving us a 2-0 record right now. The only thing I'll credit BA for is not totally screwing things up.

By the way, BA does have a QB. He's had Batch and Dixon. You may have a point if those two were bad backups, but they're not. Both are mediocre at worst. Ben being out is no excuse for the offense to be doing this poorly.

That was the point. Maybe I'm going too fast for you. I guess I need to take it back to elementary level for you. "So what's your point" is your best? That's a stutter if I ever heard one. The point was if you are piling in stats to back up your argument, maybe you should understand what you are looking at before you insert your foot into your mouth. To say based on your stats Arians offense is getting worse is false. I showed you the stats. Basing on league rankings is invalid. If you thing "League Rankings" is the landmark of the team meetings to measure productivity, you are nothing more than a fantasy football kid. To even show you your own measuring stick, I showed you the defensive side of the coin. So if you are saying that a 2.9 variance of points scored over the last 3 years is a steady decrease of production...Then what about the 6.3 variance points allowed over the last 3 years on defense? Are you saying DL is getting worse? HE should be pushed out? I mean Arians offense improved 1.3 from 08 to 09. DL PA increased 6.3 from 08 to 09. Be careful of your reply to that. It's called entrapment. "Stick to the subject"....Priceless...I'm rolling. :lol:

Really feel bad for you. Did you watch the game or read the box scores? Steelers forced 7 turnovers. How's that not keeping the ball out of their hands. With the "high power" offense of the Steelers that rolled up 127 yards of total offense, The Steelers still held the time of posession lead with a 33:40 to 26.20 total. :shock: In the titans 15 posessions which included the kickoff they fumbled & the onside kick, the titans turned the ball over 7 times and punted 5. The average field position for the steelers was their 43 while the Titans average field position was their 32. :shock: Going into the 4th, the Titans offensive output was 94 yards. Interesting, the Steelers offensive output was 97 yards going into the 4th. Steelers had 5 first down going into the 4th. Titans had 5 first down going into the 4th. Again box score boy, what game were you watching? Very effective football given the Steelers using their 4th string QB and back-up OL. I couldn't ask for more out of my OC. These are not numbers with BB in there. What would you like them to be given the situation?

Are you kidding me? Batch would not have even made the team if Lefty wasn't hurt. It was the Steelers intensions to go with 2 and release Batch. Bad back-ups? Nobody said bad back-ups. But a 3rd & 4th string QB. One in his 2nd & 3rd start of his career. One who saw no work with the first team through the preseason and overall body of work was limited as the #4. Where do you draw the line for fall-off while Ben isn't there. What kind of output do you expect from a #3 & #4 with starting OL out? You would expect Lefty to be able to move the chains. Maybe a 200 yard outing in the 28-32 attempt range max. You would want to limit a 3rd stringer. Pushed into the starting role because of injury, you wouldn't want him over 25 attempts max. But a 4th stringer? Come on....3rd down passes & the occasional quick pass on 1st or 2nd to back out the safeties. More than likely looking at 12-18 attempts max. There is a reason why they are that far down the depth charts. You play the odds and go with high percentage plays. High percentage of not turning the ball over. That is BA job description right now. Don't "screw things up" as you put it. So you would be giving him an A then. Nice to see you agree.

I was very critical of BA last year and really didn't want to see him return unless he would balance out the offense. But right now, he isn't being graded and he is doing exactly what MT is asking of him. He is not putting the Steelers in bad situations and managing the game based on his QB production. You need to realize you are not seeing everything and a 5 yard completion to a WR on TV may be a mistake on the coaches film. There were several plays against the titans where both QBs made the wrong reads. One that stuck out was when Hines Ward was standing on the opposite sideline scratching his a$$ & waving his hands past the yard marker while DD eyed Moore coming out of the backfield and dumped the ball to Moore instead of going through his progressions. There was also a play where Batch jumped his protection and went to his check down when Miller was coming open uncovered. Dropped passes were also an issue. Execution becomes more important as the opportunities decrease.

When BB returns, BA will be evaluated. I will be the first to curse him if he continues the playcalling like he did last year. If you truely think this is the same gameplan we will see when he returns, you would have a point. But you don't.

Oviedo
09-21-2010, 09:55 AM
Grading the offense with where we are now is ridiculous. It's like timing Usain Bolt in the 100 yard dash with him wearing leg weights...meaningless.

The offense has been scaled back to a minimalistic, don't do anything to lose the game approach because of Dixon. We are still running a pre-season vanilla offensive package. If Leftwich or Batch start this weekend I think you will see the playbook opened up a little bit because both of them can actually read a defense and work through progressions but Lefty will be limited because of injury and batch will be limited because they have to protect him from injury. However IMO either will perform better than Dixon.

Don't complain about the offense until a couple of weeks after Ben gets back unless you just want to rehash your long held beliefs about Arians. Right now though bashing Arians for the offensive performance is a cheap shot and you are being intellectually dishonest.

steelnavy
09-21-2010, 10:58 AM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

Well, still waiting for an answer. Got awfully quiet in here all of the sudden...

Slapstick
09-21-2010, 11:10 AM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

Well, still waiting for an answer. Got awfully quiet in here all of the sudden...

I'll take this one...

You use Mendenhall because it at least gives you the threat of a pass play...any uncertainty on the part of the defense is going to help the offense...

Also, Mendenhall gives the offense the threat of a home run...take the Atlanta game, for example...in OT, Atl. had lots of guys up at the LOS and look what happened when it was blocked properly: a 50 yard TD run from Mendenhall...you won't get that from Redman...

feltdizz
09-21-2010, 12:42 PM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

Well, still waiting for an answer. Got awfully quiet in here all of the sudden...

Mendenhall is the starter... he will get most of the touches.

Just because we were content with running up the middle it doesn't mean you have to telegraph it with your sub packages. Mend also has break away speed and all it takes is one guy to miss in a 9 man front for him to score.

Also remember we did throw a TD pass... so it's not like we never threw the ball there just wasn't a pressing need to do it.

When we are up 10 with Ben and we still chuck it and Holmes runs the wrong route or Ben throws into double coverage like the Colts game in 08 half the board blamed BA.

The guy can't win.... even though he wins.

Oviedo
09-21-2010, 01:35 PM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

Well, still waiting for an answer. Got awfully quiet in here all of the sudden...

Mendenhall is the starter... he will get most of the touches.

Just because we were content with running up the middle it doesn't mean you have to telegraph it with your sub packages. Mend also has break away speed and all it takes is one guy to miss in a 9 man front for him to score.

Also remember we did throw a TD pass... so it's not like we never threw the ball there just wasn't a pressing need to do it.

When we are up 10 with Ben and we still chuck it and Holmes runs the wrong route or Ben throws into double coverage like the Colts game in 08 half the board blamed BA.

The guy can't win.... even though he wins.

No OC the Steelers have had in the last twenty years has excaped the expert assessment and complaints from fans. It is just part of the OC job in Pittsburgh that you have to recognize that the guys in the stands are smarter than the guy on the sidelines.

Too bad guys calling the plays can't know the result ahead of time. Then they could be smart like all the La-Z-Boy experts. I am neither a fan or hater of Arians and could care less if he is canned or not because I know the next guy will hear the exact same criticisms. I will give Arians credit for implementing a passing attack that can match the other elite teams in this league. Do you think that last drive that won the last Super Bowl would have been possible under a Cowher/Whisenhunt regime?????

cruzer8
09-21-2010, 01:50 PM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

Well, still waiting for an answer. Got awfully quiet in here all of the sudden...

Mendenhall is the starter... he will get most of the touches.

Just because we were content with running up the middle it doesn't mean you have to telegraph it with your sub packages. Mend also has break away speed and all it takes is one guy to miss in a 9 man front for him to score.

Also remember we did throw a TD pass... so it's not like we never threw the ball there just wasn't a pressing need to do it.

When we are up 10 with Ben and we still chuck it and Holmes runs the wrong route or Ben throws into double coverage like the Colts game in 08 half the board blamed BA.

The guy can't win.... even though he wins.

No OC the Steelers have had in the last twenty years has excaped the expert assessment and complaints from fans. It is just part of the OC job in Pittsburgh that you have to recognize that the guys in the stands are smarter than the guy on the sidelines.

Too bad guys calling the plays can't know the result ahead of time. Then they could be smart like all the La-Z-Boy experts. I am neither a fan or hater of Arians and could care less if he is canned or not because I know the next guy will hear the exact same criticisms. I will give Arians credit for implementing a passing attack that can match the other elite teams in this league. Do you think that last drive that won the last Super Bowl would have been possible under a Cowher/Whisenhunt regime?????[/quote]

Playoff road games in Cincy, Indy and Denver say "yes".

Arians should be shown the door as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Slapstick
09-21-2010, 02:22 PM
Playoff road games in Cincy, Indy and Denver say "yes".

Arians should be shown the door as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I respectfully disagree...

Passing early in the game is all well and good, but Cowher and Whisenhunt never put the trust in Ben that Arians has to run the offense...period...

The Steelers would have played for the FG at the end of the game and tried to take it to OT...

Oviedo
09-21-2010, 02:24 PM
For all of the BA apologists that want to blame the crappy offensive production on the 4th string Qback and 5th and 6th string linemen, and NOT on BA:

If you are going to consistently run up the middle when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box because they KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RUN UP THE MIDDLE, then why not put Redman in with Johnson or Legursky at Fullback and just pound the crap out of them? Why use Mendy who is more finesse then pound-the-ball and therefore gets little or no yardage?

Thats called NOT PLAYING TO YOUR STRENGTHS, or in other words, BA football.

Well, still waiting for an answer. Got awfully quiet in here all of the sudden...

Mendenhall is the starter... he will get most of the touches.

Just because we were content with running up the middle it doesn't mean you have to telegraph it with your sub packages. Mend also has break away speed and all it takes is one guy to miss in a 9 man front for him to score.

Also remember we did throw a TD pass... so it's not like we never threw the ball there just wasn't a pressing need to do it.

When we are up 10 with Ben and we still chuck it and Holmes runs the wrong route or Ben throws into double coverage like the Colts game in 08 half the board blamed BA.

The guy can't win.... even though he wins.

No OC the Steelers have had in the last twenty years has excaped the expert assessment and complaints from fans. It is just part of the OC job in Pittsburgh that you have to recognize that the guys in the stands are smarter than the guy on the sidelines.

Too bad guys calling the plays can't know the result ahead of time. Then they could be smart like all the La-Z-Boy experts. I am neither a fan or hater of Arians and could care less if he is canned or not because I know the next guy will hear the exact same criticisms. I will give Arians credit for implementing a passing attack that can match the other elite teams in this league. Do you think that last drive that won the last Super Bowl would have been possible under a Cowher/Whisenhunt regime?????[/quote:eew3plex]

Playoff road games in Cincy, Indy and Denver say "yes".

Arians should be shown the door as quickly and efficiently as possible.[/quote:eew3plex]

We can agree to disagree

SteelTorch
09-21-2010, 03:52 PM
That was the point. Maybe I'm going too fast for you. I guess I need to take it back to elementary level for you. "So what's your point" is your best? That's a stutter if I ever heard one. The point was if you are piling in stats to back up your argument, maybe you should understand what you are looking at before you insert your foot into your mouth. To say based on your stats Arians offense is getting worse is false. I showed you the stats. Basing on league rankings is invalid. If you thing "League Rankings" is the landmark of the team meetings to measure productivity, you are nothing more than a fantasy football kid. To even show you your own measuring stick, I showed you the defensive side of the coin. So if you are saying that a 2.9 variance of points scored over the last 3 years is a steady decrease of production...Then what about the 6.3 variance points allowed over the last 3 years on defense? Are you saying DL is getting worse? HE should be pushed out? I mean Arians offense improved 1.3 from 08 to 09. DL PA increased 6.3 from 08 to 09. Be careful of your reply to that. It's called entrapment. "Stick to the subject"....Priceless...I'm rolling. :lol:

Really feel bad for you. Did you watch the game or read the box scores? Steelers forced 7 turnovers. How's that not keeping the ball out of their hands. With the "high power" offense of the Steelers that rolled up 127 yards of total offense, The Steelers still held the time of posession lead with a 33:40 to 26.20 total. :shock: In the titans 15 posessions which included the kickoff they fumbled & the onside kick, the titans turned the ball over 7 times and punted 5. The average field position for the steelers was their 43 while the Titans average field position was their 32. :shock: Going into the 4th, the Titans offensive output was 94 yards. Interesting, the Steelers offensive output was 97 yards going into the 4th. Steelers had 5 first down going into the 4th. Titans had 5 first down going into the 4th. Again box score boy, what game were you watching? Very effective football given the Steelers using their 4th string QB and back-up OL. I couldn't ask for more out of my OC. These are not numbers with BB in there. What would you like them to be given the situation?

Are you kidding me? Batch would not have even made the team if Lefty wasn't hurt. It was the Steelers intensions to go with 2 and release Batch. Bad back-ups? Nobody said bad back-ups. But a 3rd & 4th string QB. One in his 2nd & 3rd start of his career. One who saw no work with the first team through the preseason and overall body of work was limited as the #4. Where do you draw the line for fall-off while Ben isn't there. What kind of output do you expect from a #3 & #4 with starting OL out? You would expect Lefty to be able to move the chains. Maybe a 200 yard outing in the 28-32 attempt range max. You would want to limit a 3rd stringer. Pushed into the starting role because of injury, you wouldn't want him over 25 attempts max. But a 4th stringer? Come on....3rd down passes & the occasional quick pass on 1st or 2nd to back out the safeties. More than likely looking at 12-18 attempts max. There is a reason why they are that far down the depth charts. You play the odds and go with high percentage plays. High percentage of not turning the ball over. That is BA job description right now. Don't "screw things up" as you put it. So you would be giving him an A then. Nice to see you agree.

I was very critical of BA last year and really didn't want to see him return unless he would balance out the offense. But right now, he isn't being graded and he is doing exactly what MT is asking of him. He is not putting the Steelers in bad situations and managing the game based on his QB production. You need to realize you are not seeing everything and a 5 yard completion to a WR on TV may be a mistake on the coaches film. There were several plays against the titans where both QBs made the wrong reads. One that stuck out was when Hines Ward was standing on the opposite sideline scratching his a$$ & waving his hands past the yard marker while DD eyed Moore coming out of the backfield and dumped the ball to Moore instead of going through his progressions. There was also a play where Batch jumped his protection and went to his check down when Miller was coming open uncovered. Dropped passes were also an issue. Execution becomes more important as the opportunities decrease.

When BB returns, BA will be evaluated. I will be the first to curse him if he continues the playcalling like he did last year. If you truely think this is the same gameplan we will see when he returns, you would have a point. But you don't.
I have to hand it to you. That's quite a lot of typing without actually saying anything. :P

First off, you think you had me in a "gotcha" situation, but you don't. All you really proved is that you try to shift attention from Arians by trying to put the defense in a bad light. Sure, they dipped in production in 2009, but that's proven to be an anomaly because DL has a great track record of making good defense and great playcalling. And now, they so far appear to be back to form. BA, however, is still fielding an offense that looks utterly inept. And, unlike DL, BA has not produced a #1 ranked unit. He has no great track record to show off. Oh, and yes, league rankings are important. To win, you have to be better than the other teams. Unless you're content with sputtering in the bottom half. What high standards you have.

Now, on to your next absurdity. I highlighted one part of that to show just how much hard you're failing - we're talking about the offense keeping the ball out of their hands, yet you bring up seven turnovers as if the OFFENSE somehow was responsible for creating them! :lol: Next, ToP really doesn't matter that much these days. It just doesn't. It's much easier to score in a relatively small amount of time. Case in point: the Colts were absolutely dominated in ToP by the Dolphins in their game last year - yet Miami still lost. And that ToP doesn't mean jack if they make nothing of it.

Again, you say 4th stringer, but Batch is a decent QB. So is Dixon. Batch is a seasoned veteran and Dixon had a lot of practice time in the pre-season. I don't expect a 30+ point performance, but I DO expect more than 12 points off seven turnovers. If you're honestly satisfied with our offense after that game, God help you.

Finally, I say once again, BA IS putting us in bad situations with his game. In two games, his offense has just mustered one offensive TD. Only stellar efforts by our defense have prevented us from going 0-2. Not having Ben in there just exposes how truyly inept he is with calling a game. If the defense happens to have an off-day, I do not trust BA to win the game for us. These past two games have only reinforced my worries.

cruzer8
09-21-2010, 04:16 PM
Playoff road games in Cincy, Indy and Denver say "yes".

Arians should be shown the door as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I respectfully disagree...

Passing early in the game is all well and good, but Cowher and Whisenhunt never put the trust in Ben that Arians has to run the offense...period...

The Steelers would have played for the FG at the end of the game and tried to take it to OT...

You have no way to prove that.

feltdizz
09-21-2010, 04:22 PM
ToP really doesn't matter that much these days. It just doesn't. It's much easier to score in a relatively small amount of time. Case in point: the Colts were absolutely dominated in ToP by the Dolphins in their game last year - yet Miami still lost. And that ToP doesn't mean jack if they make nothing of it.


so.... is the win more important or is the offensive production more important?

I can't see how you use a Colts win as proof ToP is irrelevant but somehow offensive production is important when we have a makeshift OL and rotating QB's and win ugly.

SteelTorch
09-21-2010, 04:29 PM
ToP really doesn't matter that much these days. It just doesn't. It's much easier to score in a relatively small amount of time. Case in point: the Colts were absolutely dominated in ToP by the Dolphins in their game last year - yet Miami still lost. And that ToP doesn't mean jack if they make nothing of it.


so.... is the win more important or is the offensive production more important?

I can't see how you use a Colts win as proof ToP is irrelevant but somehow offensive production is important when we have a makeshift OL and rotating QB's and win ugly.
The win is important, but we have the defense to thank for that, not Bruce Arians. Offensive production determines our chances of winning and losing . Our offense is ranked 31st right now. If you think, even giving all our injuries, that this ranking is acceptable, then God help us.

And I bring up the offensive stats that matter. ToP isn't one of them.

steelnavy
09-21-2010, 05:49 PM
I have another one for you BA lovers:

Peyton is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Drew Breeze is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Tom Brady is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

WHY IS THAT?!? WHY CAN'T A QUARTERBACK AS GREAT AS HIM MAKE OUR OFFENSE ONE OF THE LEAGUE'S BEST?!?

BECAUSE HE HAS TO OVERCOME BRUCE ARIANS INEQUITIES!

That is all.

Preacher
09-21-2010, 06:41 PM
Now wait a second...

I thought all offseason long, we were hearing all about the "It will be good to return to Steelers Football."

Steelers football was not misdirection, running to the edge, etc. etc. It was running up the middle and following the LG off the RG.

So now, the playcalls have changed, we are running a lot more often, playing "steelers football" and Arians is STILL being damned? For what... for actually PLAYING STEELERS FOOTBALL???

You know, there is a phrase that comes from the middle-age witch hunts. If you were accused of being a witch, they would throw you in the water. If you drowned, then you weren't a witch. If you didn't drown, then you were considered a witch because you used your powers to live. Thus the phrase, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

BA understands that phrase quite well right now I would think.

steelnavy
09-21-2010, 06:45 PM
Now wait a second...

I thought all offseason long, we were hearing all about the "It will be good to return to Steelers Football."

Steelers football was not misdirection, running to the edge, etc. etc. It was running up the middle and following the LG off the RG.

So now, the playcalls have changed, we are running a lot more often, playing "steelers football" and Arians is STILL being damned? For what... for actually PLAYING STEELERS FOOTBALL???

You know, there is a phrase that comes from the middle-age witch hunts. If you were accused of being a witch, they would throw you in the water. If you drowned, then you weren't a witch. If you didn't drown, then you were considered a witch because you used your powers to live. Thus the phrase, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

BA understands that phrase quite well right now I would think.

Um, if I recall, Steelers football included A FREAKIN FULLBACK. Bruce Arians says that we don't need no stinkin fullbacks. Lets run Mendy up the middle into a nine man front all by himself, play after play, after play, after play...

Who's next?

cruzer8
09-21-2010, 07:04 PM
Now wait a second...

I thought all offseason long, we were hearing all about the "It will be good to return to Steelers Football."

Steelers football was not misdirection, running to the edge, etc. etc. It was running up the middle and following the LG off the RG.

So now, the playcalls have changed, we are running a lot more often, playing "steelers football" and Arians is STILL being damned? For what... for actually PLAYING STEELERS FOOTBALL???

You know, there is a phrase that comes from the middle-age witch hunts. If you were accused of being a witch, they would throw you in the water. If you drowned, then you weren't a witch. If you didn't drown, then you were considered a witch because you used your powers to live. Thus the phrase, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

BA understands that phrase quite well right now I would think.

No, here's how BA's mind works.

Rooney: We need to run the ball more efficiently.

What BA hears: We need to run the ball more.

There is one person here who's freaking out about our offensive production so far. The rest of the people complaining about the offense to this point do not have unrealistic expectations for the offense while Ben is out. What our beef is with Arians in this circumstance is that he is handicapping his QBs by only allowing them to throw in obvious throwing situations. A creative OC wouldn't be so predictable. A creative OC would mix in some short, safe passes on first down or on second and short. Right now teams expect us to run in those situations and BA gives them what they expect.

He started off ok in the first few games, but after the first series all the creativity he could muster was used up. If he wants to help the D, and help his QBs, he would be more creative while still playing it fairly safe. I'm sick of watching the opening drive and thinking, "Finally, this is what we've been waiting for!" only to have it go back to run, run, throw on third and long, punt.

He can allow his QBs to throw while still playing it safe. Swing passes, short throws over the middle or to the TE, screens. Anything like that will keep the D guessing at what's coming. What he's doing now is absolutely ridiculous. I don't care who the QB is, when the defense has SEVEN turnovers in one game the offensive output should be more than 12 points (our TD was on a CREATIVE play by the special teams so Arians gets no credit for that). If Ben were QB that game would have been a laugher. I don't expect a laugher with Batch or DD or Lefty, but the offensive output should have been more than 4 FGs by Reed.

Preacher
09-21-2010, 07:09 PM
I have another one for you BA lovers:

Peyton is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Drew Breeze is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Tom Brady is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

WHY IS THAT?!? WHY CAN'T A QUARTERBACK AS GREAT AS HIM MAKE OUR OFFENSE ONE OF THE LEAGUE'S BEST?!?

BECAUSE HE HAS TO OVERCOME BRUCE ARIANS INEQUITIES!

That is all.

I'm not a BA lover... but may I suggest it is because our two previous OL coaches left us in shambles? Yes, I am talking about the "vaunted" Russ Grimm who left this team with a shell of a former great LT in Marvel Smith-who at that point was so broken down that he couldn't make it through half a season, with no situated backup, a LG that was allowed to run off at the mouth to the point that he was allowed to walk out the door, a center with knees so bad that he retired about the same time Grimm left--and left us with chucky Okobi... who didn't even make the 53 man roster, was pickup up by... GRIMM, and then cut 2 months later... BY GRIMM. A RG in Kendall Simmons who again, wasn't even good enough to remain with the team two years later, and at RT, the one guy who remains from the last year of the Grimm, Willie Colon (who, is now injured). In order to fill those holes, we had to go through 4 centers (Okobi, Mahan, Hartwig, and now Pouncey), two replacement right guards in Stapleton and now Essex (who is still a placeholder, so this number will end up being at least 3), and filling the gap at LT with a flat-footed Starks.

Of course, the question then is, why didn't they get Oline in the draft. That answer is really easy. 1. Timmons, 2. Woodley, 3. Spaeth 4. Sepulveda . 3 of the first four picks were dead on hits that filled an absolute need, as LB was a bigger need (Porter had just left, and does ANYONE remember the horrendous punting up to that point?). The next draft, 1. Mendy, 2. Sweed, 3. Davis, 4. Hills. Yeah, not a good draft, but if you remember, all the good O line were gone when it came our chance to pick for Number 1, and Mendy was still on the board. Anyone want to dispute that we should have moved up to pick up a lineman and missed Mendy? In 2009, I remember watching the lineman fly off the boards. I thought we would get a good center, only to have unexpected teams take them. When it came to us, there was no one worth of a number 1 pick at OL.

Why do I say all of this? Simple, because as easy as it is to blame BA, in reality, we are still climbing out of the hole that Grimm built for this team on the O line by not having suitable backups ready to step in and play, except in the LG position. Now, go back and look at all those other QB's, and then look at their O line. What do you find? The lines are solid, pass-blocking lines. They aren't run-first lines trying to learn passblocking on the fly--thanks again Russ Grimm.

Crash
09-21-2010, 07:15 PM
Passing early in the game is all well and good, but Cowher and Whisenhunt never put the trust in Ben that Arians has to run the offense...period...

So Cowher and Whiz coming out throwing with Ben isn't trusting him?

Crash
09-21-2010, 07:19 PM
Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

What were we ranked last season on offense?

Arians has issues. But IMO he's not as bad as people think. Just needs to tweak a few things.

steelnavy
09-21-2010, 07:36 PM
Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

What were we ranked last season on offense?

Arians has issues. But IMO he's not as bad as people think. Just needs to tweak a few things.

Um, we were ranked like 17th last year in offense... 32 teams divided by 2 equals 16... which means we were BELOW THE MIDDLE AND THEREFORE BELOW AVERAGE. What is YOUR definition of mediocre?

So if he tweaked a few things, then maybe he wouldnt be as bad as people think, BUT UNTIL HE DOES, HE IS AS BAD AS PEOPLE THINK!

Next?

BURGH86STEEL
09-21-2010, 07:45 PM
Now wait a second...

I thought all offseason long, we were hearing all about the "It will be good to return to Steelers Football."

Steelers football was not misdirection, running to the edge, etc. etc. It was running up the middle and following the LG off the RG.

So now, the playcalls have changed, we are running a lot more often, playing "steelers football" and Arians is STILL being damned? For what... for actually PLAYING STEELERS FOOTBALL???

You know, there is a phrase that comes from the middle-age witch hunts. If you were accused of being a witch, they would throw you in the water. If you drowned, then you weren't a witch. If you didn't drown, then you were considered a witch because you used your powers to live. Thus the phrase, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

BA understands that phrase quite well right now I would think.

No, here's how BA's mind works.

Rooney: We need to run the ball more efficiently.

What BA hears: We need to run the ball more.

Correction: That is what some fans heard.

There is one person here who's freaking out about our offensive production so far. The rest of the people complaining about the offense to this point do not have unrealistic expectations for the offense while Ben is out. What our beef is with Arians in this circumstance is that he is handicapping his QBs by only allowing them to throw in obvious throwing situations. A creative OC wouldn't be so predictable. A creative OC would mix in some short, safe passes on first down or on second and short. Right now teams expect us to run in those situations and BA gives them what they expect.

He started off ok in the first few games, but after the first series all the creativity he could muster was used up. If he wants to help the D, and help his QBs, he would be more creative while still playing it fairly safe. I'm sick of watching the opening drive and thinking, "Finally, this is what we've been waiting for!" only to have it go back to run, run, throw on third and long, punt.

I find it strange that someone thinks he handicapped a guy with one/two start in the league. They only played two games so far. How did you reach the conclusion all the creativity was used up? How does one measure the amount of creativity of the offensive plays without reviewing film or knowing the play book? What is being creative while playing it safe? I stick to execution.

They've done more then run, run, throw on 3rd and long. Go take a look at the play by play at NFL.com for the ATL game. They passed on 1st and 2nd down situations in that game. Maybe not as much as you liked but they did.

There are other things to take into consideration. Running on first and second down makes sense considering Dixon had limited experience. When they ran, they wanted to put him in easier or makable 3rd down situations. Dixon missed open WR's in those 3rd and makable situations against ATL.




He can allow his QBs to throw while still playing it safe. Swing passes, short throws over the middle or to the TE, screens. Anything like that will keep the D guessing at what's coming. What he's doing now is absolutely ridiculous. I don't care who the QB is, when the defense has SEVEN turnovers in one game the offensive output should be more than 12 points (our TD was on a CREATIVE play by the special teams so Arians gets no credit for that). If Ben were QB that game would have been a laugher. I don't expect a laugher with Batch or DD or Lefty, but the offensive output should have been more than 4 FGs by Reed.

It seems that so many people have the solutions to our QB & Oline dilemma. If it is so easy, how come better OC's can't figure this stuff out? I will tell you why, it's not as easy as the arm chair OC's make it sound. The other teams have good players that get paid too.

You don't care who the QB is, really? This league is mostly about the players (you said that in so many ways when you mentioned Ben). I can care less about the offensive output as long as the teams wins. If this team wins 2-0, I will take it.

SteelCrazy
09-21-2010, 07:50 PM
One problem I have with Arians is he has no imagination....He definitely is not a D!ck LeBeau type. When we run the ball it is very obvious that we are going to run. When 36 was the HB, that wasn't a problem. We had the line and Bet had the power. I think we should have a lot of passing plays with a FB in the game, like FB screens, all kinds of different things he could do, but we essentially run the same offense we have ran since 2007.

BURGH86STEEL
09-21-2010, 07:55 PM
I have another one for you BA lovers:

Peyton is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Drew Breeze is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Tom Brady is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been among the top performers IN NFL RANKING STATS

Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

WHY IS THAT?!? WHY CAN'T A QUARTERBACK AS GREAT AS HIM MAKE OUR OFFENSE ONE OF THE LEAGUE'S BEST?!?

BECAUSE HE HAS TO OVERCOME BRUCE ARIANS INEQUITIES!

That is all.

I'm not a BA lover... but may I suggest it is because our two previous OL coaches left us in shambles? Yes, I am talking about the "vaunted" Russ Grimm who left this team with a shell of a former great LT in Marvel Smith-who at that point was so broken down that he couldn't make it through half a season, with no situated backup, a LG that was allowed to run off at the mouth to the point that he was allowed to walk out the door, a center with knees so bad that he retired about the same time Grimm left--and left us with chucky Okobi... who didn't even make the 53 man roster, was pickup up by... GRIMM, and then cut 2 months later... BY GRIMM. A RG in Kendall Simmons who again, wasn't even good enough to remain with the team two years later, and at RT, the one guy who remains from the last year of the Grimm, Willie Colon (who, is now injured). In order to fill those holes, we had to go through 4 centers (Okobi, Mahan, Hartwig, and now Pouncey), two replacement right guards in Stapleton and now Essex (who is still a placeholder, so this number will end up being at least 3), and filling the gap at LT with a flat-footed Starks.

Of course, the question then is, why didn't they get Oline in the draft. That answer is really easy. 1. Timmons, 2. Woodley, 3. Spaeth 4. Sepulveda . 3 of the first four picks were dead on hits that filled an absolute need, as LB was a bigger need (Porter had just left, and does ANYONE remember the horrendous punting up to that point?). The next draft, 1. Mendy, 2. Sweed, 3. Davis, 4. Hills. Yeah, not a good draft, but if you remember, all the good O line were gone when it came our chance to pick for Number 1, and Mendy was still on the board. Anyone want to dispute that we should have moved up to pick up a lineman and missed Mendy? In 2009, I remember watching the lineman fly off the boards. I thought we would get a good center, only to have unexpected teams take them. When it came to us, there was no one worth of a number 1 pick at OL.

Why do I say all of this? Simple, because as easy as it is to blame BA, in reality, we are still climbing out of the hole that Grimm built for this team on the O line by not having suitable backups ready to step in and play, except in the LG position. Now, go back and look at all those other QB's, and then look at their O line. What do you find? The lines are solid, pass-blocking lines. They aren't run-first lines trying to learn passblocking on the fly--thanks again Russ Grimm.

In fairness, I don't think we can blame Grimm or any one person for the current situation a long the Oline. Salary capp, draft position, winning, players available in the draft, players the organization hopes to develop, and other things should be taken into consideration. I think you hinted at some of those things in your post. Great Olinemen don't fall off trees. There is probably a shortage around the league.

IMO, the nature of the NFL makes it difficult to have it all. Teams try to over come short comings by making other areas of the team stronger when possible.

BURGH86STEEL
09-21-2010, 08:06 PM
One problem I have with Arians is he has no imagination....He definitely is not a D!ck LeBeau type. When we run the ball it is very obvious that we are going to run. When 36 was the HB, that wasn't a problem. We had the line and Bet had the power. I think we should have a lot of passing plays with a FB in the game, like FB screens, all kinds of different things he could do, but we essentially run the same offense we have ran since 2007.

How do you explain some of the success if there is no imagination? How many are Lebeau types? There is only one Lebeau. That being said, Lebeau's had more talent to work with on the defensive side of the ball.

It's not always obvious when they are going to run the ball. You do have a 50/50 chance to get it right though. It appears to me that Ben likes the shot gun in obvious passing situations. Should they move away from the shot gun in 3rd down situations when they need to pass?

A lot of passing plays with a FB in the game? FB screens? You can't be serious???? Teams are moving away from FB based offenses cause it limits what they can do in passing games. FBs are easier to cover and account for then TE's or 3rd WR's.

How do you know the offense is the same now as it was in 2007? It's evolved from rushing more to passing more with Ben in the line up. I believe they are closer to 50/50 with Ben out of the line up.

Crash
09-21-2010, 09:25 PM
Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

What were we ranked last season on offense?

Arians has issues. But IMO he's not as bad as people think. Just needs to tweak a few things.

Um, we were ranked like 17th last year in offense... 32 teams divided by 2 equals 16... which means we were BELOW THE MIDDLE AND THEREFORE BELOW AVERAGE. What is YOUR definition of mediocre?

So if he tweaked a few things, then maybe he wouldnt be as bad as people think, BUT UNTIL HE DOES, HE IS AS BAD AS PEOPLE THINK!

Next?

17th? I could have swore we were ranked in the top 10.

feltdizz
09-21-2010, 09:40 PM
Big Ben is in the quarterback elite category - his offense has been... oh thats right, mediocre in NFL RANKING STATS...

What were we ranked last season on offense?

Arians has issues. But IMO he's not as bad as people think. Just needs to tweak a few things.

Um, we were ranked like 17th last year in offense... 32 teams divided by 2 equals 16... which means we were BELOW THE MIDDLE AND THEREFORE BELOW AVERAGE. What is YOUR definition of mediocre?

So if he tweaked a few things, then maybe he wouldnt be as bad as people think, BUT UNTIL HE DOES, HE IS AS BAD AS PEOPLE THINK!

Next?

17th? I could have swore we were ranked in the top 10.

7th

SteelCrazy
09-21-2010, 09:48 PM
One problem I have with Arians is he has no imagination....He definitely is not a D!ck LeBeau type. When we run the ball it is very obvious that we are going to run. When 36 was the HB, that wasn't a problem. We had the line and Bet had the power. I think we should have a lot of passing plays with a FB in the game, like FB screens, all kinds of different things he could do, but we essentially run the same offense we have ran since 2007.

How do you explain some of the success if there is no imagination? How many are Lebeau types? There is only one Lebeau. That being said, Lebeau's had more talent to work with on the defensive side of the ball.

It's not always obvious when they are going to run the ball. You do have a 50/50 chance to get it right though. It appears to me that Ben likes the shot gun in obvious passing situations. Should they move away from the shot gun in 3rd down situations when they need to pass?

A lot of passing plays with a FB in the game? FB screens? You can't be serious???? Teams are moving away from FB based offenses cause it limits what they can do in passing games. FBs are easier to cover and account for then TE's or 3rd WR's.

How do you know the offense is the same now as it was in 2007? It's evolved from rushing more to passing more with Ben in the line up. I believe they are closer to 50/50 with Ben out of the line up.


First, when Ben is playing I dont have as big a problem with Arians because BB usually stamps out Arians flaws with stellar play. When Dixon or Batch is playing is when Arians needs to do a little better job of disguising the play selection. I have predicted run or pass correctly almost every time this season so far.

Second, There aren't any LeBeau's in the league but there are the type. Our special teams coach seems to be one. I have never seen a reverse executed the way we did it on the opening KO. That was very imaginative and LeBeau like. This isnt rocket science here. You should be able to draw up some confusing plays on offense not to tip your hand, especially if you are a OC in the NFL

papillon
09-21-2010, 10:09 PM
One problem I have with Arians is he has no imagination....He definitely is not a D!ck LeBeau type. When we run the ball it is very obvious that we are going to run. When 36 was the HB, that wasn't a problem. We had the line and Bet had the power. I think we should have a lot of passing plays with a FB in the game, like FB screens, all kinds of different things he could do, but we essentially run the same offense we have ran since 2007.

How do you explain some of the success if there is no imagination? How many are Lebeau types? There is only one Lebeau. That being said, Lebeau's had more talent to work with on the defensive side of the ball.

It's not always obvious when they are going to run the ball. You do have a 50/50 chance to get it right though. It appears to me that Ben likes the shot gun in obvious passing situations. Should they move away from the shot gun in 3rd down situations when they need to pass?

A lot of passing plays with a FB in the game? FB screens? You can't be serious???? Teams are moving away from FB based offenses cause it limits what they can do in passing games. FBs are easier to cover and account for then TE's or 3rd WR's.

How do you know the offense is the same now as it was in 2007? It's evolved from rushing more to passing more with Ben in the line up. I believe they are closer to 50/50 with Ben out of the line up.


First, when Ben is playing I dont have as big a problem with Arians because BB usually stamps out Arians flaws with stellar play. When Dixon or Batch is playing is when Arians needs to do a little better job of disguising the play selection. I have predicted run or pass correctly almost every time this season so far.

Second, There aren't any LeBeau's in the league but there are the type. Our special teams coach seems to be one. I have never seen a reverse executed the way we did it on the opening KO. That was very imaginative and LeBeau like. This isnt rocket science here. You should be able to draw up some confusing plays on offense not to tip your hand, especially if you are a OC in the NFL

How do you disguise play calling when the quarterbacks aren't capable of making plays?

Pappy

Slapstick
09-21-2010, 11:01 PM
Playoff road games in Cincy, Indy and Denver say "yes".

Arians should be shown the door as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I respectfully disagree...

Passing early in the game is all well and good, but Cowher and Whisenhunt never put the trust in Ben that Arians has to run the offense...period...

The Steelers would have played for the FG at the end of the game and tried to take it to OT...

You have no way to prove that.

Of course I don't!!

Why should I be held to a higher standard than anyone else?

This is a message board...I can throw out any piece of crap conjecture or bit of idle speculation that I want to, just like mostly everyone else on here...

Facts can be proven...they can't be debated...

Opinions vary and can be debated...

"Arians sucks" is just an opinion...

Slapstick
09-21-2010, 11:02 PM
Passing early in the game is all well and good, but Cowher and Whisenhunt never put the trust in Ben that Arians has to run the offense...period...

So Cowher and Whiz coming out throwing with Ben isn't trusting him?

Not to the same degree as Arians, no...

Crash
09-21-2010, 11:38 PM
Passing early in the game is all well and good, but Cowher and Whisenhunt never put the trust in Ben that Arians has to run the offense...period...

So Cowher and Whiz coming out throwing with Ben isn't trusting him?

Not to the same degree as Arians, no...

What's the difference? Coming out throwing is coming out throwing regardless of the OC, no?

When Tony Dungy said after we beat them that he was surprised that we came out throwing? He obviously didn't watch any film of us in 2004 and 2005.

We've come out throwing since Ben got here. It's nothing new.

stlrz d
09-22-2010, 12:22 AM
10 pages. Wow.

Oh yeah, Arians still sucks slimy horse dong.

And if we're gonna talk execution we should only be discussing it in regards to Arians. I'm in favor of it.

hawaiiansteel
09-22-2010, 12:34 AM
Oh yeah, Arians still sucks slimy horse dong.



yes, he does. here's some interesting stats I ran across:


Bruce Arians's rushing offenses have been mediocre to bad 5 out of the 6 years he has been an OC, or 83.33% of the time. Arians was the OC for the Browns for 3 years (2001, 2002, 2003) and has been our OC for 3 years (2007, 2008, 2009) making it a total of 6 years he has been an OC.

let's take a look at how his rushing offenses have done:


In 2007, the Steelers ranked third in rushing yards and averaged 24.6 points per game.

In 2008, the Steelers ranked 23rd in rushing yards and averaged 21.7 points per game.

In 2009, the Steelers ranked 19th in rushing yards and averaged 22.5 points per game.


now let's look back at the numbers from Arians' only other time as offensive coordinator with the Cleveland Browns:


2001 Browns: 17.8 points per game, 31st in total offense, 31st in rushing offense, and 28th in passing offense.

2002 Browns: 21.5 points per game, 23rd in total offense, 23rd in rushing offense, and 18th in passing offense.

2003 Browns: 15.9 points per game, 26th in total offense, 20th in rushing offense, and 25th in passing offense.

SteelCrazy
09-22-2010, 12:52 AM
One problem I have with Arians is he has no imagination....He definitely is not a D!ck LeBeau type. When we run the ball it is very obvious that we are going to run. When 36 was the HB, that wasn't a problem. We had the line and Bet had the power. I think we should have a lot of passing plays with a FB in the game, like FB screens, all kinds of different things he could do, but we essentially run the same offense we have ran since 2007.

How do you explain some of the success if there is no imagination? How many are Lebeau types? There is only one Lebeau. That being said, Lebeau's had more talent to work with on the defensive side of the ball.



It's not always obvious when they are going to run the ball. You do have a 50/50 chance to get it right though. It appears to me that Ben likes the shot gun in obvious passing situations. Should they move away from the shot gun in 3rd down situations when they need to pass?

A lot of passing plays with a FB in the game? FB screens? You can't be serious???? Teams are moving away from FB based offenses cause it limits what they can do in passing games. FBs are easier to cover and account for then TE's or 3rd WR's.

How do you know the offense is the same now as it was in 2007? It's evolved from rushing more to passing more with Ben in the line up. I believe they are closer to 50/50 with Ben out of the line up.


First, when Ben is playing I dont have as big a problem with Arians because BB usually stamps out Arians flaws with stellar play. When Dixon or Batch is playing is when Arians needs to do a little better job of disguising the play selection. I have predicted run or pass correctly almost every time this season so far.

Second, There aren't any LeBeau's in the league but there are the type. Our special teams coach seems to be one. I have never seen a reverse executed the way we did it on the opening KO. That was very imaginative and LeBeau like. This isnt rocket science here. You should be able to draw up some confusing plays on offense not to tip your hand, especially if you are a OC in the NFL

How do you disguise play calling when the quarterbacks aren't capable of making plays?

Pappy
Its not possible to make plays unless u can extend the play by five seconds

RuthlessBurgher
09-22-2010, 02:46 AM
Now wait a second...

I thought all offseason long, we were hearing all about the "It will be good to return to Steelers Football."

Steelers football was not misdirection, running to the edge, etc. etc. It was running up the middle and following the LG off the RG.

So now, the playcalls have changed, we are running a lot more often, playing "steelers football" and Arians is STILL being damned? For what... for actually PLAYING STEELERS FOOTBALL???

You know, there is a phrase that comes from the middle-age witch hunts. If you were accused of being a witch, they would throw you in the water. If you drowned, then you weren't a witch. If you didn't drown, then you were considered a witch because you used your powers to live. Thus the phrase, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

BA understands that phrase quite well right now I would think.

So, in essence, what you are saying is that Bruce Arians weighs the same as a duck?

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail028.jpg

:lol:

Crash
09-22-2010, 03:28 AM
So now, the playcalls have changed, we are running a lot more often, playing "steelers football" and Arians is STILL being damned? For what... for actually PLAYING STEELERS FOOTBALL???

Yep. He appeases the Yinzers and they still complain. Sad part is they aren't even complaining about what they should be.

hawaiiansteel
09-22-2010, 03:48 AM
Yep. He appeases the Yinzers and they still complain



I don't think Arians is trying to appease the Yinzers as much as he is appeasing the Rooneys.

SteelCrazy
09-22-2010, 03:59 AM
Yep. He appeases the Yinzers and they still complain



I don't think Arians is trying to appease the Yinzers as much as he is appeasing the Rooneys.
:Clap

Slapstick
09-22-2010, 08:38 AM
What's the difference? Coming out throwing is coming out throwing regardless of the OC, no?

When Tony Dungy said after we beat them that he was surprised that we came out throwing? He obviously didn't watch any film of us in 2004 and 2005.

We've come out throwing since Ben got here. It's nothing new.

If you actually read what I posted, I was referring to the end of SB XLIII, not "coming out throwing"...I posted that I believe that Cowher and Whis wouldn't have trusted Roethlisberger with the game on the line...I think that they would have played for a 23-all tie and gone into OT...

"Coming out throwing" is not the same as "finishing the game throwing"...

Arians, for all his faults, built this offense around Roethlisberger and has treated him like an actual franchise QB...before Arians, this did not happen...

stlrz d
09-22-2010, 08:57 AM
What's the difference? Coming out throwing is coming out throwing regardless of the OC, no?

When Tony Dungy said after we beat them that he was surprised that we came out throwing? He obviously didn't watch any film of us in 2004 and 2005.

We've come out throwing since Ben got here. It's nothing new.

If you actually read what I posted, I was referring to the end of SB XLIII, not "coming out throwing"...I posted that I believe that Cowher and Whis wouldn't have trusted Roethlisberger with the game on the line...I think that they would have played for a 23-all tie and gone into OT...

"Coming out throwing" is not the same as "finishing the game throwing"...

Arians, for all his faults, built this offense around Roethlisberger and has treated him like an actual franchise QB...before Arians, this did not happen...

Yes it did.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-22-2010, 09:20 AM
First off, you think you had me in a "gotcha" situation, but you don't. All you really proved is that you try to shift attention from Arians by trying to put the defense in a bad light. Sure, they dipped in production in 2009, but that's proven to be an anomaly because DL has a great track record of making good defense and great playcalling. And now, they so far appear to be back to form. BA, however, is still fielding an offense that looks utterly inept. And, unlike DL, BA has not produced a #1 ranked unit. He has no great track record to show off. Oh, and yes, league rankings are important. To win, you have to be better than the other teams. Unless you're content with sputtering in the bottom half. What high standards you have.

Now, on to your next absurdity. I highlighted one part of that to show just how much hard you're failing - we're talking about the offense keeping the ball out of their hands, yet you bring up seven turnovers as if the OFFENSE somehow was responsible for creating them! :lol: Next, ToP really doesn't matter that much these days. It just doesn't. It's much easier to score in a relatively small amount of time. Case in point: the Colts were absolutely dominated in ToP by the Dolphins in their game last year - yet Miami still lost. And that ToP doesn't mean jack if they make nothing of it.

Again, you say 4th stringer, but Batch is a decent QB. So is Dixon. Batch is a seasoned veteran and Dixon had a lot of practice time in the pre-season. I don't expect a 30+ point performance, but I DO expect more than 12 points off seven turnovers. If you're honestly satisfied with our offense after that game, God help you.

Finally, I say once again, BA IS putting us in bad situations with his game. In two games, his offense has just mustered one offensive TD. Only stellar efforts by our defense have prevented us from going 0-2. Not having Ben in there just exposes how truyly inept he is with calling a game. If the defense happens to have an off-day, I do not trust BA to win the game for us. These past two games have only reinforced my worries.

You remind me of a kid who brings the ball to the playground. It's your ball so you make the games. As soon as you start playing the game and things don't go your way, you call a new game. Eventually you run out of games and you take your ball & go home. That is what all your posts resemble.

I stated this before, I am not an Arians fan and hoped he was fired last year. This was not about Arians success in the past. This was about graded him out over the first 4 games based on his situation. I brought the entrapment issue to your attention because you have been doing very well at supply us with hypocritical comments/logic. "Not having Ben out there merely exposes just how incompetent Arians is. We don't have his talent to make up for Arians' ineptitude." Well, DL's defense went over 20 PA last year with the absence of Smith & Polamalu. A jump of 6+ points in PA. Your logic...Hypocritical. The whole reason why I brought the defensive stats into comparison. Let me remind you, you brought the stats into the discussion. I humored you by punching holes in you logic and showing your inaccuracies. And yes, you did fall into it.

DL and Arians are no comparisson. Never said it...Never will. Arians job wasn't in jeopardy because of stats. His job was in jeopardy because of play calling and lack of balance on offense. His job is still in jeopardy and his coaching will be evaluated when BB comes back...Not now. DL job was never in jeopardy regardless of his "stats" from last year. This argument had nothing to do with Arians vs DL or offense vs defense. It was all referenced to show your logic wasn't sound and all based on your one-sided opinion.

The next paragraph where you referenced keeping the ball out of their hands is so revealing as to whom I dealing with. You were in the band weren't you? 7 turnovers...Never said the offense had anything to do with it. Comprehension. You have to do something with the ball when you get it. Since the Steelers didn't have an offense capable of consistantly moving the chains, the best play calling in those situation is keep the clock moving. Run high percentage plays with low risk of turnover. Kick a field goal or punt. No turnover & the clock continues to move. That's a win. Gain the field position. Keep the ball out of their hands....TOP. The only two stats on offense through these first four games that sits on top of the list is turnovers & TOP. That is the nature of the game the Steelers offense is up against. That's football 101 with your 3rd & 4th string QBs and back-up OL.

If Batch & Dixon were so competent...Would we be having this discussion? If they had confidence in them...Would there be a different game plan? 3-0 with a Steelers win through these first four games is acceptable to me.

I really don't know what to say. You just don't know much about game planning. You are talking like a fantasy football guy. It is frustrating watching this offense. But I disagree 100% with you and I'm sure many of the other posters, coaches, media would agree with me. Arians HAS NOT put this team in bad situations. That is why we are 2-0 and the Steelers defense & STs superior play has got us here.

Again, you reference "Not having Ben exposes how inept" he is. I guess you don't see how hypocritical that is and how inaccurate of a statement that is. DL didn't have Troy or Aaron last year. The defense kept giving up leads late. Couldn't get off the field. Did that show DL's inept ability at play calling? No...It didn't. Was anyone in the media calling for DL job? No...Nobody. But they were calling for Arians job. Why? Because of his playcalling and lack of balance on offense. He wasn't keeping the ball out of the other teams hand when the defense was struggling. TOP & running the ball. He wasn't moving the chains or clock and made no adjustment because of that to help out his defense. Never shortened the game...Just took the keys to the sports car and went driving. It should have been the Offense helping the Defense. You are seeing the formula that would have been successful last year in the flip version. Is anyone in the media calling for Arians job through the first 2 games? No. Why? They understand the game of football when a team is in the Steelers situation.

I laughed yesterday listening to Stan & Guy because an irate Steelers fan called the show about Arians offense through the first 2 games. I first thought, It's Steeltorch! both Stan & Guy agreed that Arians is doing what he has to do to not put the Steelers in a bad situation by running the football, winning the TOP game, and limiting tunovers. Let the defense & ST win the games until BB returns. They also agreed that no evaluation of Arians "new philosophy offense" will begin until after BB returns.

I find it very hard to support Arians because I'm am a hater until being proven otherwise. But calling for his replacement through these first 4 games is not logical. It is also hard to argue with someone as condescending as yourself who changes lanes every time you challenge his logic that is based on personal hatred of an individual. But Hey....At least you are a Steelers fan!

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 09:42 AM
we will go 4-0 and people will still complain and scream for BA's head.

just goes to show what is important to some fans... and it isn't winning games.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-22-2010, 10:01 AM
All truth to that. The team is in survival mode until Ben returns. The offense has not been pressed to go on the "offensive" so as long as the game is close...I don't see that changing. I do expect to see more plays from the playbook if Lefty is in there but we still won't see the all out attack we are used to. Might see some passes on first or second down, but they still will want to focus on eating up the clock in the run game. If Lefty is unsuccessful or turns the ball over....Back to survival mode. 2 more games! :HeadBanger

Oviedo
09-22-2010, 10:03 AM
we will go 4-0 and people will still complain and scream for BA's head.

just goes to show what is important to some fans... and it isn't winning games.

Yep. If you say something enough sooner or later you get it right and for whatever reason some folks need that.

Slapstick
09-22-2010, 10:09 AM
What's the difference? Coming out throwing is coming out throwing regardless of the OC, no?

When Tony Dungy said after we beat them that he was surprised that we came out throwing? He obviously didn't watch any film of us in 2004 and 2005.

We've come out throwing since Ben got here. It's nothing new.

If you actually read what I posted, I was referring to the end of SB XLIII, not "coming out throwing"...I posted that I believe that Cowher and Whis wouldn't have trusted Roethlisberger with the game on the line...I think that they would have played for a 23-all tie and gone into OT...

"Coming out throwing" is not the same as "finishing the game throwing"...

Arians, for all his faults, built this offense around Roethlisberger and has treated him like an actual franchise QB...before Arians, this did not happen...

Yes it did.

Well, going with the previously established Monty Python theme:

That's not arguing...that's just simple contradiction... :mrgreen:

RuthlessBurgher
09-22-2010, 01:17 PM
What's the difference? Coming out throwing is coming out throwing regardless of the OC, no?

When Tony Dungy said after we beat them that he was surprised that we came out throwing? He obviously didn't watch any film of us in 2004 and 2005.

We've come out throwing since Ben got here. It's nothing new.

If you actually read what I posted, I was referring to the end of SB XLIII, not "coming out throwing"...I posted that I believe that Cowher and Whis wouldn't have trusted Roethlisberger with the game on the line...I think that they would have played for a 23-all tie and gone into OT...

"Coming out throwing" is not the same as "finishing the game throwing"...

Arians, for all his faults, built this offense around Roethlisberger and has treated him like an actual franchise QB...before Arians, this did not happen...

Yes it did.

Well, going with the previously established Monty Python theme:

That's not arguing...that's just simple contradiction... :mrgreen:

No it isn't. :wink:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uLlv_aZjHXc/0.jpg

Slapstick
09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
I set 'em up...

You knock them out of the park... :Bow

Oh, and furthermore:

:brownssuck :ratsuck :bungalssuck

Just to keep it Steeler-centric... :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
09-22-2010, 01:24 PM
I certainly won't contradict

:brownssuck :ratsuck :bungalssuck

:tt2 :Steel :tt1

cruzer8
09-22-2010, 01:59 PM
Why is it the Arians supporters believe that we don't care about winning? Please provide proof of that because it is not true. Our disgust with him is that he refuses any chance to be unpredictable and/or creative. He can play the game safe while still being unpredictable and creative but he just won't do it for some unknown reason.

Btw, this thread should be combined with the "it's gonna be a hot one" thread. And the title should be changed to "Arians is still hot garbage".

Crash
09-22-2010, 02:08 PM
Arians, for all his faults, built this offense around Roethlisberger and has treated him like an actual franchise QB...before Arians, this did not happen...

Coming out throwing proves it did.

Don't listen to the garbage national media who read box scores Slap.

You've watched the same games we all have.

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Why is it the Arians supporters believe that we don't care about winning? Please provide proof of that because it is not true. Our disgust with him is that he refuses any chance to be unpredictable and/or creative. He can play the game safe while still being unpredictable and creative but he just won't do it for some unknown reason.

Btw, this thread should be combined with the "it's gonna be a hot one" thread. And the title should be changed to "Arians is still hot garbage".


Maybe it's because you guys bash BA as soon as the coin is flipped.

Most people predicted 0-4 or 1-3. Now that we are 2-0 and fans can't brag about their hilarious predictions of the season being lost without Ben it's the same old same old...

When there is nothing else to blame.. blame BA.

When we pass with the lead and it ends in a sack or INT.. blame BA for not running.
When it's 3rd and short and we try a sweep... blame BA for not running up the middle.
When we score on a bomb to Wallace.... blame BA for scoring too fast.
When we go smashmouth after pass happy last season and win.. blame BA for not winning creatively.

Whatever happens on the field that goes wrong.. Blame BA
Whatever goes right on the field.... credit the players and yourselves but don't forget to blame BA.

papillon
09-22-2010, 02:25 PM
Why is it the Arians supporters believe that we don't care about winning? Please provide proof of that because it is not true. Our disgust with him is that he refuses any chance to be unpredictable and/or creative. He can play the game safe while still being unpredictable and creative but he just won't do it for some unknown reason.

Btw, this thread should be combined with the "it's gonna be a hot one" thread. And the title should be changed to "Arians is still hot garbage".


Maybe it's because you guys bash BA as soon as the coin is flipped.

Most people predicted 0-4 or 1-3. Now that we are 2-0 and fans can't brag about their hilarious predictions of the season being lost without Ben it's the same old same old...

When there is nothing else to blame.. blame BA.

When we pass with the lead and it ends in a sack or INT.. blame BA for not running.
When it's 3rd and short and we try a sweep... blame BA for not running up the middle.
When we score on a bomb to Wallace.... blame BA for scoring too fast.
When we go smashmouth after pass happy last season and win.. blame BA for not winning creatively.

Whatever happens on the field that goes wrong.. Blame BA
Whatever goes right on the field.... credit the players and yourselves but don't forget to blame BA.

That's about it in a nutshell. I'm neither a fan nor hater of BA, if he stays, he stays, if he goes, he goes, either way the Steelers will move on; but for right now he's doing okay as far as I can tell and missing many of his key personnel.

Pappy

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 02:42 PM
Ben and the WR's will miss BA when he moves on.... but most fans will not.

Then it's only a matter of time before the new OC is the team idiot....

Oviedo
09-22-2010, 02:47 PM
Why is it the Arians supporters believe that we don't care about winning? Please provide proof of that because it is not true. Our disgust with him is that he refuses any chance to be unpredictable and/or creative. He can play the game safe while still being unpredictable and creative but he just won't do it for some unknown reason.

Btw, this thread should be combined with the "it's gonna be a hot one" thread. And the title should be changed to "Arians is still hot garbage".


Maybe it's because you guys bash BA as soon as the coin is flipped.

Most people predicted 0-4 or 1-3. Now that we are 2-0 and fans can't brag about their hilarious predictions of the season being lost without Ben it's the same old same old...

When there is nothing else to blame.. blame BA.

When we pass with the lead and it ends in a sack or INT.. blame BA for not running.
When it's 3rd and short and we try a sweep... blame BA for not running up the middle.
When we score on a bomb to Wallace.... blame BA for scoring too fast.
When we go smashmouth after pass happy last season and win.. blame BA for not winning creatively.

Whatever happens on the field that goes wrong.. Blame BA
Whatever goes right on the field.... credit the players and yourselves but don't forget to blame BA.

That's about it in a nutshell. I'm neither a fan nor hater of BA, if he stays, he stays, if he goes, he goes, either way the Steelers will move on; but for right now he's doing okay as far as I can tell and missing many of his key personnel.

Pappy

Arians or Joe Schmo it doesn't matter. Fans will always complain about the OC because the fan base has two opposite views of what "Steelers football" is. Some want run, run run while others want to match the elite passing teams in the league (that actually win championships). That usually guarantees 50% of the fans will be bashing whoever is the OC.

JDSteeler
09-22-2010, 02:52 PM
Why is it the Arians supporters believe that we don't care about winning? Please provide proof of that because it is not true. Our disgust with him is that he refuses any chance to be unpredictable and/or creative. He can play the game safe while still being unpredictable and creative but he just won't do it for some unknown reason.

Btw, this thread should be combined with the "it's gonna be a hot one" thread. And the title should be changed to "Arians is still hot garbage".

I like it!!! Hot Garbage, cuz it STINKS a whole heck of alot more!!!

The INTELLIGENT, and KNOWLEDGABLE Steeler Fans know when an OC is doing his
J-O-B, and when he's mailing it in...

I think he calls the plays that he calls, just because he knows how furious it makes
the STEELERNATION....since the Baffoon is actually a "STAIN" in BROWNS clothing!!

The Arianus apologists have a point, we are 2-0. However, Arianus is NOT, and I
will repeat it for YOU, NOT the reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's a Douche, and a Scum Bag!!!! If Yinz don't see it, take off the blinders, BEFORE,
the game starts!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no other explanation for the REPEATING the same RUTFM call!!!! NONE!!!!

IT doesn't help the offense is any way, shape, or form!!!! It gets the defense into a
friggin frenzy when they "BLOW-UP" MENDY, even before he gets two steps toward
the LOS.

What pisses me off is that TOMLIN has nothing to say about it, and the MEDIA, hasn't
even mumbled a word about Arianus' BS play-calling, which has been a staple of his
since he's been the OC.

BA the ass-clown was FIRED, and the door hit him in the ass, but then BEN went to
bat for him, and got him un-fired.....ahhhhhhhrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JD

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 03:00 PM
maybe Tomlin isn't making a big deal out of it because he is using common sense...

Do you really think Arians calls these plays to pizzz us off? 77 plays of 20 yards or more and he called them just to get us mad!!!!

ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slapstick
09-22-2010, 03:24 PM
Coming out throwing proves it did.

Don't listen to the garbage national media who read box scores Slap.

You've watched the same games we all have.

Correct! I have watched the games...

Now, try reading and comprehending my posts and THEN respond...

papillon
09-22-2010, 03:33 PM
Why is it the Arians supporters believe that we don't care about winning? Please provide proof of that because it is not true. Our disgust with him is that he refuses any chance to be unpredictable and/or creative. He can play the game safe while still being unpredictable and creative but he just won't do it for some unknown reason.

Btw, this thread should be combined with the "it's gonna be a hot one" thread. And the title should be changed to "Arians is still hot garbage".[/quote:2610c092]

I like it!!! Hot Garbage, cuz it STINKS a whole heck of alot more!!!

The INTELLIGENT, and KNOWLEDGABLE Steeler Fans know when an OC is doing his
J-O-B, and when he's mailing it in...

I think he calls the plays that he calls, just because he knows how furious it makes
the STEELERNATION....since the Baffoon is actually a "STAIN" in BROWNS clothing!!

The Arianus apologists have a point, we are 2-0. However, Arianus is NOT, and I
will repeat it for YOU, NOT the reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What was the reason the Steelers gave up 4 - 4th quarter leads last year after the offense gave the lead to the team (3 times in one game)?

He's a Douche, and a Scum Bag!!!! If Yinz don't see it, take off the blinders, BEFORE,
the game starts!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you actually know the man? Why the hate?

There is no other explanation for the REPEATING the same RUTFM call!!!! NONE!!!!

Do you want an OC that simply ignores the 0,1 and 2 gaps and run exclusively through the 3,4,5 and 6 gaps, you want to talk about predictable.

IT doesn't help the offense is any way, shape, or form!!!! It gets the defense into a
friggin frenzy when they "BLOW-UP" MENDY, even before he gets two steps toward
the LOS.

This is Arians fault? Kugler, zero culpability for not having his linemen block the play? O-line, no culpability for not hitting the guy in front of them? It's BAs fault every time a play is blown up in the backfield?

What pisses me off is that TOMLIN has nothing to say about it, and the MEDIA, hasn't
even mumbled a word about Arianus' BS play-calling, which has been a staple of his
since he's been the OC.

BA the bad word-clown was FIRED, and the door hit him in the bad word, but then BEN went to
bat for him, and got him un-fired.....ahhhhhhhrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben Roethlisberger doesn't make personnel decisions contrary to popular belief.

JD[/quote:2610c092]

Even when everything works the haters will find fault with what BA does and then attack him personally as if he shot their family pet. I get not agreeing with his offense philosophy, because, I've been there a few times myself, but I don't get the vitriol aimed at the man as a person. He's never done anything even remotely for which to hate him.

This is no different than those calling for Lebeau's head last year as if the man forgot how to coach a defense. He was down two superb football players and their replacements were less than stellar. And, yet, there were fans that wanted Lebeau fired or to retire, so Butler could step in and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

The schemes are only as good as the players and the execution.

Pappy

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 03:54 PM
Arians was fired and Ben unfired him? LOL. :roll:

Crash
09-22-2010, 03:57 PM
Correct! I have watched the games...

And I'm saying you are wrong. Ben has always had the trust of his coaches. The ONLY difference now is we just don't always turtle when we get a lead like Cowher did.

Cowher's tenue built around Ben also. They drafted Miller, they drafted Holmes in the first round back to back years after Ben's arrival.

Not much more one can do.

Flasteel
09-22-2010, 06:58 PM
Even when everything works the haters will find fault with what BA does and then attack him personally as if he shot their family pet. I get not agreeing with his offense philosophy, because, I've been there a few times myself, but I don't get the vitriol aimed at the man as a person. He's never done anything even remotely for which to hate him.

This is no different than those calling for Lebeau's head last year as if the man forgot how to coach a defense. He was down two superb football players and their replacements were less than stellar. And, yet, there were fans that wanted Lebeau fired or to retire, so Butler could step in and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

The schemes are only as good as the players and the execution.

Pappy


That first part was well stated Pap. There's no need for personal attacks, or off the wall statements. If you truly have a beef with Arians, then state your reasons why. The rest of that stuff looks childish and casts everyone who has a legitimate problem with Arians in a negative light.

That last senetence though...

I just hope you aren't trying to minimize the importance of schemes, play-calling, or coaching. That seems to be a mantra of the pro-Arians crowd. They always blame execution as the sole reason for any perceived strruggle.

Your statement is 100% true, but talent alone won't deliver victory.
:tt2

SteelTorch
09-22-2010, 10:16 PM
we will go 4-0 and people will still complain and scream for BA's head.

just goes to show what is important to some fans... and it isn't winning games.
Our offense could be ranked 32nd with all our starters playing and you'd STILL be satisfied with BA. :stirpot

papillon
09-22-2010, 10:18 PM
Even when everything works the haters will find fault with what BA does and then attack him personally as if he shot their family pet. I get not agreeing with his offense philosophy, because, I've been there a few times myself, but I don't get the vitriol aimed at the man as a person. He's never done anything even remotely for which to hate him.

This is no different than those calling for Lebeau's head last year as if the man forgot how to coach a defense. He was down two superb football players and their replacements were less than stellar. And, yet, there were fans that wanted Lebeau fired or to retire, so Butler could step in and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

The schemes are only as good as the players and the execution.

Pappy


That first part was well stated Pap. There's no need for personal attacks, or off the wall statements. If you truly have a beef with Arians, then state your reasons why. The rest of that stuff looks childish and casts everyone who has a legitimate problem with Arians in a negative light.

That last senetence though...

I just hope you aren't trying to minimize the importance of schemes, play-calling, or coaching. That seems to be a mantra of the pro-Arians crowd. They always blame execution as the sole reason for any perceived strruggle.

Your statement is 100% true, but talent alone won't deliver victory.

:tt2

All I can say is if the schemes were the end all be all the Steelers wouldn't have lost 3 or 4 games that they had in hand last year in the 4th quarter. You have to have the players. The OC or DC can only put his players in a position to succeed based on their talents and strengths.

If execution isn't a huge factor in a successful scheme then why did the defense fail so many times last year?

I just become annoyed when folks sound as if Arians has attacked them personally. Even though the offense has been deplorable and the defense outstanding the Steelers are 2-0, their getting some pieces of the puzzle back this week on offense, so I'll expect a more production. Once Ben is back in a few more weeks we should all expect the offensive game plan to change tremendously.

Pappy

SteelTorch
09-22-2010, 10:26 PM
All I can say is if the schemes were the end all be all the Steelers wouldn't have lost 3 or 4 games that they had in hand last year in the 4th quarter. You have to have the players. The OC or DC can only put his players in a position to succeed based on their talents and strengths.

If execution isn't a huge factor in a successful scheme then why did the defense fail so many times last year?

I just become annoyed when folks sound as if Arians has attacked them personally. Even though the offense has been deplorable and the defense outstanding the Steelers are 2-0, their getting some pieces of the puzzle back this week on offense, so I'll expect a more production. Once Ben is back in a few more weeks we should all expect the offensive game plan to change tremendously.

Pappy
But Pappy, BA has NEVER fielded an effective offense even with all the starters playing. Sure we won the SB in 08, blah blah blah...but we also had perhaps the best defense of the decade on our side, along with one of the best QB's in the league - a QB who, by the way, is at his best when he's the one calling the plays. In other words, we won in SPITE of Arians, not because of him.

Last year was probably the closest BA's ever come to having a good offense, but even that had problems. We were still terribly inefficient, our short yardage situation was horrendous, our running game sputtered, and Ben STILL got sacked more than 40 times. And look at them now. The offense is just as horrendous as ever. I honestly don't understand how people continue to have faith in him even after all these years of failure. It just boggles my mind.

stlrz d
09-22-2010, 10:32 PM
Off the top of my head, Steelers OC's that I loved:

Chan Gailey
Mike Mularkey
Whiz

Steelers OC's that I hate or hated:

Joe Walton
Ron Erhadt
Bruce "hot garbage" Arians

I'm sure there are more that fall into one category or another, but that's what I came up with just now.

So all the "fans will always blame the OC" crap can stop. It's a lie. And if you propagate that myth then you are a liar. Plain and simple, a liar.

The three guys on my "loved" list were creative and unpredictable and knew how to use the talent they had at their disposal. They kept defenses, and the fans, guessing at what was coming next.

The three guys on my "hate or hated" list were (or are) stubborn, predictable, unimaginative, possibly even lacking intelligence and plain uninspiring. And when I say "hate" I mean "hated as OC's, not as people".

Thank God we get Ben "the Arians eraser" Roethlisberger back in a few weeks. The hot garbage is really stinking and needs to be taken to the curb.

feltdizz
09-22-2010, 10:37 PM
All I can say is if the schemes were the end all be all the Steelers wouldn't have lost 3 or 4 games that they had in hand last year in the 4th quarter. You have to have the players. The OC or DC can only put his players in a position to succeed based on their talents and strengths.

If execution isn't a huge factor in a successful scheme then why did the defense fail so many times last year?

I just become annoyed when folks sound as if Arians has attacked them personally. Even though the offense has been deplorable and the defense outstanding the Steelers are 2-0, their getting some pieces of the puzzle back this week on offense, so I'll expect a more production. Once Ben is back in a few more weeks we should all expect the offensive game plan to change tremendously.

Pappy
But Pappy, BA has NEVER fielded an effective offense even with all the starters playing. Sure we won the SB in 08, blah blah blah...but we also had perhaps the best defense of the decade on our side, along with one of the best QB's in the league - a QB who, by the way, is at his best when he's the one calling the plays. In other words, we won in SPITE of Arians, not because of him.

Last year was probably the closest BA's ever come to having a good offense, but even that had problems. We were still terribly inefficient, our short yardage situation was horrendous, our running game sputtered, and Ben STILL got sacked more than 40 times. And look at them now. The offense is just as horrendous as ever. I honestly don't understand how people continue to have faith in him even after all these years of failure. It just boggles my mind.


I think you are giving the players too much credit and giving BA too much blame.

Our players don't make all the blocks or all the hot reads or all the catches on every drive.

Mahan was our center... then Hartwig... now we have a solid center. You will see the difference this year once Ben returns.

papillon
09-22-2010, 10:46 PM
All I can say is if the schemes were the end all be all the Steelers wouldn't have lost 3 or 4 games that they had in hand last year in the 4th quarter. You have to have the players. The OC or DC can only put his players in a position to succeed based on their talents and strengths.

If execution isn't a huge factor in a successful scheme then why did the defense fail so many times last year?

I just become annoyed when folks sound as if Arians has attacked them personally. Even though the offense has been deplorable and the defense outstanding the Steelers are 2-0, their getting some pieces of the puzzle back this week on offense, so I'll expect a more production. Once Ben is back in a few more weeks we should all expect the offensive game plan to change tremendously.

Pappy
But Pappy, BA has NEVER fielded an effective offense even with all the starters playing. Sure we won the SB in 08, blah blah blah...but we also had perhaps the best defense of the decade on our side, along with one of the best QB's in the league - a QB who, by the way, is at his best when he's the one calling the plays. In other words, we won in SPITE of Arians, not because of him.

Last year was probably the closest BA's ever come to having a good offense, but even that had problems. We were still terribly inefficient, our short yardage situation was horrendous, our running game sputtered, and Ben STILL got sacked more than 40 times. And look at them now. The offense is just as horrendous as ever. I honestly don't understand how people continue to have faith in him even after all these years of failure. It just boggles my mind.

We'll have to disagree on BA never fielding an effective offense. BA and the offense handed the defense leads in 4 games late by coming from behind (three times in the Oakland game the offense regained the lead) only to watch the game slip away. Everyone loves D1ck Lebeau, I love D1ck Lebeau and so his defense gets a pass.

The one thing about BA that I don't like is that he doesn't force the other team to stop what's working; he seems to get away from successful plays too early, simply to get into his game plan for the week. I always liked the mentality that if the opponent can't stop me, then I'm going to keep doing it until they do, but I won't stop myself. Many times I feel BA stops himself, because the script is done and now he's going to execute the game plan.

Pappy

SteelTorch
09-22-2010, 10:46 PM
I think you are giving the players too much credit and giving BA too much blame.

Our players don't make all the blocks or all the hot reads or all the catches on every drive.

Mahan was our center... then Hartwig... now we have a solid center. You will see the difference this year once Ben returns.

If I felt that BA was at least creative, adaptive, or even smart with his play-calling, I'd cut him some slack. But BA has proven to show very little ability or inclination to adapt in a game. Sure, our OL is crap, but Arians does nothing to make up for it. When BA calls for a run up the middle three times in a series, even when it hasn't worked and the defense is OBVIOUSLY preparing for it, which is EXACTLY what happened, I sure as hell am going to blame BA for it.

"Hot Garbage" has been the only common denominator in our offense these last few years, and I think not having Ben out there to extend plays has really exposed his inability to manage a game. When Ben comes back, it will improve, but BA will still be just as bad of an OC.

Point to our 2-0 record all you want, but we can thank a strong defense for that. Bruce Arians has been a failure everywhere he went, and Pittsburgh is no exception.

SteelTorch
09-22-2010, 10:55 PM
We'll have to disagree on BA never fielding an effective offense. BA and the offense handed the defense leads in 4 games late by coming from behind (three times in the Oakland game the offense regained the lead) only to watch the game slip away. Everyone loves D1ck Lebeau, I love D1ck Lebeau and so his defense gets a pass.

The one thing about BA that I don't like is that he doesn't force the other team to stop what's working; he seems to get away from successful plays too early, simply to get into his game plan for the week. I always liked the mentality that if the opponent can't stop me, then I'm going to keep doing it until they do, but I won't stop myself. Many times I feel BA stops himself, because the script is done and now he's going to execute the game plan.

Pappy
No argument here, the defense wasted several leads for us. But I can also point to numerous times in the season where the offense sputtered or failed to capitalize in the worst situations. It happened quite often. The fact that we were 18th in scoring efficiency is evidence of that. When the offense fails to make good use of our opportunities and still gets our QB killed, that's not what I call effective.

You hit one of the nails on the head: BA seems to care more about how HE wants to run a game than how he should run the game. That is not the mark of an OC I want in Pittsburgh.

JDSteeler
09-23-2010, 03:31 AM
Off the top of my head, Steelers OC's that I loved:

Chan Gailey
Mike Mularkey
Whiz

Steelers OC's that I hate or hated:

Joe Walton
Ron Erhadt
Bruce "hot garbage" Arians

I'm sure there are more that fall into one category or another, but that's what I came up with just now.

So all the "fans will always blame the OC" crap can stop. It's a lie. And if you propagate that myth then you are a liar. Plain and simple, a liar.

The three guys on my "loved" list were creative and unpredictable and knew how to use the talent they had at their disposal. They kept defenses, and the fans, guessing at what was coming next.

The three guys on my "hate or hated" list were (or are) stubborn, predictable, unimaginative, possibly even lacking intelligence and plain uninspiring. And when I say "hate" I mean "hated as OC's, not as people".

Thank God we get Ben "the Arians eraser" Roethlisberger back in a few weeks. The hot garbage is really stinking and needs to be taken to the curb.


What did you think of Kevin Gilbride, and Sherman Lewis????

I'd have to put both of themm on the "Hate as OC's" list....

JD

JDSteeler
09-23-2010, 03:50 AM
maybe Tomlin isn't making a big deal out of it because he is using common sense...

Do you really think Arians calls these plays to pizzz us off? 77 plays of 20 yards or more and he called them just to get us mad!!!!

ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Then I think YOU should give him a friggin TROPHY!!!!

I dare you to count the number of RUTFM play-calls there are!!! In the
entire game, a series, a half...

I'm gonna try to...I really would like to know how many friggin downs are
wasted by that STUPID, BAFFOON!!!!

Also, pay close attention to the play-call right after the Steelers get a
little rhythm, or splash play...BA always loves to "Kill" the momentum by
calling a RUTFM!!!!! Followed by a RUTFM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Followed
by 3rd and long, and a timing pattern to the sideline, with a CASINO BLITZ
staring the QB in the face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gosh, I'm freaking mad....and it's your fault FELT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frooooothing at the mouth like a crazed dog!!!!!!! AAARRRFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JD

stlrz d
09-23-2010, 08:01 AM
Off the top of my head, Steelers OC's that I loved:

Chan Gailey
Mike Mularkey
Whiz

Steelers OC's that I hate or hated:

Joe Walton
Ron Erhadt
Bruce "hot garbage" Arians

I'm sure there are more that fall into one category or another, but that's what I came up with just now.

So all the "fans will always blame the OC" crap can stop. It's a lie. And if you propagate that myth then you are a liar. Plain and simple, a liar.

The three guys on my "loved" list were creative and unpredictable and knew how to use the talent they had at their disposal. They kept defenses, and the fans, guessing at what was coming next.

The three guys on my "hate or hated" list were (or are) stubborn, predictable, unimaginative, possibly even lacking intelligence and plain uninspiring. And when I say "hate" I mean "hated as OC's, not as people".

Thank God we get Ben "the Arians eraser" Roethlisberger back in a few weeks. The hot garbage is really stinking and needs to be taken to the curb.


What did you think of Kevin Gilbride, and Sherman Lewis????

I'd have to put both of themm on the "Hate as OC's" list....

JD

Forgot about those two. Yup. "Hate as OCs" list for them too.

SteelTorch
09-23-2010, 08:02 AM
Arians or Joe Schmo it doesn't matter. Fans will always complain about the OC because the fan base has two opposite views of what "Steelers football" is. Some want run, run run while others want to match the elite passing teams in the league (that actually win championships). That usually guarantees 50% of the fans will be bashing whoever is the OC.
That is one of the few things you WON'T see me criticizing Arians for. This is a passing league now, and Big Ben just happens to be our best player on offense. Why wouldn't you want to make him the keystone of our offense?

I see a lot of talk about running the ball and getting back to "Steelers football." Winning is what Steelers football is about. I think far too many people want to see us run the ball just for the sake of running it, not because we need to. Our problem last year wasn't that we didn't run the ball enough, but that we didn't run effectively enough.

Slapstick
09-23-2010, 08:40 AM
And I'm saying you are wrong. Ben has always had the trust of his coaches. The ONLY difference now is we just don't always turtle when we get a lead like Cowher did.

Cowher's tenue built around Ben also. They drafted Miller, they drafted Holmes in the first round back to back years after Ben's arrival.

Not much more one can do.

And I'm saying that you're wrong...what we have is a difference of opinion and we all know about opinions, eh?

I'm referring to stuff like this:


That new coordinator, Bruce Arians, asked Roethlisberger to help him streamline the playbook, then put more responsibility on his shoulders. Roethlisberger has the ability to scratch some scripted plays and suggest his own, and he makes the pass-blocking changes at the line.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07353/842744-66.stm

The stuff that didn't happen pre-Arians...

Or this:


Not the bashful type, Roethlisberger spoke up. He wants to use the no-huddle offense more often. It was a big topic during training camp last year but never really materialized during the season. He believes it will in 2007.

"I like the way he wants to run the no-huddle," Roethlisberger said. "Last year, we talked and talked and talked about doing it and never did it....

"I like that he wants to do that and I truly believe this year that we will do it."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07145/788950-66.stm

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 10:11 AM
I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

feltdizz
09-23-2010, 10:33 AM
I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

How is Arians on the hot seat? Is it because fans on here say so? Was it the false reporting last off season that said he is on the hot seat?

It's the NFL(not for long) so I understand he won't be here forever but I think his job is as secure as the next guys... which isn't saying much but still, I don't think he is on thin ice and with Pouncey at C and Redman as the short yardage guy the main issue of running effectively will most certainly be achieved once Ben comes back and they can't stack the box.

Unless Ben plays like HOT GARBAGE I can't see our offense taking a step back from last year.

Oviedo
09-23-2010, 10:55 AM
I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

I only think Arians is on the proverbial "hot seat" because his contract runs out at the end of this year. It is just an obvious time to reassess at the end of the season and see what else might be available. This is no different than any other coach or player in the NFL. Heck no one even knows if he wants to stay.

Fortunately the Steelers don't always assume that new and different equals better (like fans) and therefore I'm sure they will do their due diligence and make the right decision based on the options available.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 10:59 AM
I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

How is Arians on the hot seat? Is it because fans on here say so? Was it the false reporting last off season that said he is on the hot seat?

It's the NFL(not for long) so I understand he won't be here forever but I think his job is as secure as the next guys... which isn't saying much but still, I don't think he is on thin ice and with Pouncey at C and Redman as the short yardage guy the main issue of running effectively will most certainly be achieved once Ben comes back and they can't stack the box.

Unless Ben plays like HOT GARBAGE I can't see our offense taking a step back from last year.
Every Pittsburgh media figure reported the owners displeasure with the direction of the offense. Rooney actually said that publicly which I'm sure you heard. With rumors & speculation swirling in the Pittsbugh media, the "Where there's smoke-There's fire" phrase has some weight not making the playoffs after a SB.

The way these first 4 games are unfolding, it is actually adding more pressure to Arians. If the Steelers end up 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben...What would the expectations be after he returns? It is only two games but it doesn't look like the burden / blame will fall on the defense if they hold true to form. Think about it. 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben. If they miss the playoffs...What happens? 1 and done...What happens? Expectations? Somebody will need to be pointed at on the sideline. If this defense holds true to form and there is a let down...Who will it be?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 11:25 AM
I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

I only think Arians is on the proverbial "hot seat" because his contract runs out at the end of this year. It is just an obvious time to reassess at the end of the season and see what else might be available. This is no different than any other coach or player in the NFL. Heck no one even knows if he wants to stay.

Fortunately the Steelers don't always assume that new and different equals better (like fans) and therefore I'm sure they will do their due diligence and make the right decision based on the options available.

Boo! I didn't want to use the business side of it as part of the reasoning. That would have made my argument to easy :wink: You are correct. He is in his last year. That long meeting with Tomlin in January wasn't to share hair styling tips. Arians had to present his 2010 scope & Tomlin implemented philosophical changes which Arians agreed with. His staffing was evaluated on 2009 performance and value to help obtain 2010 goals. The meeting produced the firing of Offensive line coach Larry Zierlein. Let's just say...There is no coach left to blame. Hence...Hot Seat.

feltdizz
09-23-2010, 11:44 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2d9k9y4n]I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

How is Arians on the hot seat? Is it because fans on here say so? Was it the false reporting last off season that said he is on the hot seat?

It's the NFL(not for long) so I understand he won't be here forever but I think his job is as secure as the next guys... which isn't saying much but still, I don't think he is on thin ice and with Pouncey at C and Redman as the short yardage guy the main issue of running effectively will most certainly be achieved once Ben comes back and they can't stack the box.

Unless Ben plays like HOT GARBAGE I can't see our offense taking a step back from last year.
Every Pittsburgh media figure reported the owners displeasure with the direction of the offense. Rooney actually said that publicly which I'm sure you heard. With rumors & speculation swirling in the Pittsbugh media, the "Where there's smoke-There's fire" phrase has some weight not making the playoffs after a SB.

The way these first 4 games are unfolding, it is actually adding more pressure to Arians. If the Steelers end up 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben...What would the expectations be after he returns? It is only two games but it doesn't look like the burden / blame will fall on the defense if they hold true to form. Think about it. 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben. If they miss the playoffs...What happens? 1 and done...What happens? Expectations? Somebody will need to be pointed at on the sideline. If this defense holds true to form and there is a let down...Who will it be?[/quote:2d9k9y4n]

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 and done it will say a ton about Ben and the time he missed. While fans can be unrealistic I think we also know anyone can lose at anytime in the NFL.

The Rooneys had displeasure with our run game and we drafted Pouncey and fired the OL coach. I don't see how that points to BA. It just means the owners finally admitted that our late rounders and Center choices have been bad. If the Rooneys were really upset they would have fired BA.


JPN are you in on the meetings with Tomlin and Arians or have a source? You seem to know exactly how it went down.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 12:42 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":3u4uc0pi]I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

How is Arians on the hot seat? Is it because fans on here say so? Was it the false reporting last off season that said he is on the hot seat?

It's the NFL(not for long) so I understand he won't be here forever but I think his job is as secure as the next guys... which isn't saying much but still, I don't think he is on thin ice and with Pouncey at C and Redman as the short yardage guy the main issue of running effectively will most certainly be achieved once Ben comes back and they can't stack the box.

Unless Ben plays like HOT GARBAGE I can't see our offense taking a step back from last year.
Every Pittsburgh media figure reported the owners displeasure with the direction of the offense. Rooney actually said that publicly which I'm sure you heard. With rumors & speculation swirling in the Pittsbugh media, the "Where there's smoke-There's fire" phrase has some weight not making the playoffs after a SB.

The way these first 4 games are unfolding, it is actually adding more pressure to Arians. If the Steelers end up 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben...What would the expectations be after he returns? It is only two games but it doesn't look like the burden / blame will fall on the defense if they hold true to form. Think about it. 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben. If they miss the playoffs...What happens? 1 and done...What happens? Expectations? Somebody will need to be pointed at on the sideline. If this defense holds true to form and there is a let down...Who will it be?

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 and done it will say a ton about Ben and the time he missed. While fans can be unrealistic I think we also know anyone can lose at anytime in the NFL.

The Rooneys had displeasure with our run game and we drafted Pouncey and fired the OL coach. I don't see how that points to BA. It just means the owners finally admitted that our late rounders and Center choices have been bad. If the Rooneys were really upset they would have fired BA.


JPN are you in on the meetings with Tomlin and Arians or have a source? You seem to know exactly how it went down.[/quote:3u4uc0pi]

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 & done, Arians won't get a new contract. The Rooney's were upset about missing the playoffs. They were upset about how the offense was performing. Tomlin has a boss too.

When this all went down, it was all over Pittsburgh media outlets. I don't know how deep you go into following the Steeler organization so I can't judge. I took your question as sarcasm. Post Gazette, KDKA,Trib... Don't know where you want to go with this.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10007/1026388-66.stm
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 61043.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_661043.html)
http://kdka.com/local/Bruce.Arians.Stee ... 09360.html (http://kdka.com/local/Bruce.Arians.Steelers.2.1409360.html)


Reported on Stan & Guy radio show. If you ever want good info on Steelers, listen. They are actually on now.
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/es ... listenlive (http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1250/story?id=listenlive)
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd= ... ign=WEAEAM (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/live/?callsign=WEAEAM)

Bouchette, Cook, Dulac, Tunch, Wolf, Bob Labriola, and Mike Prisuta. These guys have video, articles, & chat segments all over the place. I know I'm not the only guy that absorbs everything on the Steelers.

papillon
09-23-2010, 12:58 PM
I don't know about hot seats, cold seats or any other seat, but blaming ineffective running and the offense for last year's failure to reach the playoffs is like blaming the fork for being fat. Yes, the offense had chances to put games away early, but they also bailed the defense out on at least 3 or 4 occasions. The Rooneys, IMO were simply telling Tomlin that the offense needed to do some things better. I didn't take it as, if your offense doesn't do these things better heads will roll.

My guess is the Rooneys said the same thing about the defense, but it never made it publicly. How could you not tell Tomlin and Lebeau that the defense needs to eliminate mental mistakes late and be properly conditioned for an entire football game? The defense had breakdowns in certain situations last year just like the offense, i.e., third and long, no picks by a corner back, the linebackers took turns on which half of the season to excel, and safety play was lets say sketchy at best.

No one side of the ball was more culpable than the other; I don't believe the Rooneys gave Tomlin an ultimatum on Arians, it's not their style.

Pappy

feltdizz
09-23-2010, 01:00 PM
[quote=feltdizz][quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":3p3z4qg5]I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

How is Arians on the hot seat? Is it because fans on here say so? Was it the false reporting last off season that said he is on the hot seat?

It's the NFL(not for long) so I understand he won't be here forever but I think his job is as secure as the next guys... which isn't saying much but still, I don't think he is on thin ice and with Pouncey at C and Redman as the short yardage guy the main issue of running effectively will most certainly be achieved once Ben comes back and they can't stack the box.

Unless Ben plays like HOT GARBAGE I can't see our offense taking a step back from last year.
Every Pittsburgh media figure reported the owners displeasure with the direction of the offense. Rooney actually said that publicly which I'm sure you heard. With rumors & speculation swirling in the Pittsbugh media, the "Where there's smoke-There's fire" phrase has some weight not making the playoffs after a SB.

The way these first 4 games are unfolding, it is actually adding more pressure to Arians. If the Steelers end up 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben...What would the expectations be after he returns? It is only two games but it doesn't look like the burden / blame will fall on the defense if they hold true to form. Think about it. 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben. If they miss the playoffs...What happens? 1 and done...What happens? Expectations? Somebody will need to be pointed at on the sideline. If this defense holds true to form and there is a let down...Who will it be?

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 and done it will say a ton about Ben and the time he missed. While fans can be unrealistic I think we also know anyone can lose at anytime in the NFL.

The Rooneys had displeasure with our run game and we drafted Pouncey and fired the OL coach. I don't see how that points to BA. It just means the owners finally admitted that our late rounders and Center choices have been bad. If the Rooneys were really upset they would have fired BA.


JPN are you in on the meetings with Tomlin and Arians or have a source? You seem to know exactly how it went down.[/quote:3p3z4qg5]

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 & done, Arians won't get a new contract. The Rooney's were upset about missing the playoffs. They were upset about how the offense was performing. Tomlin has a boss too.

When this all went down, it was all over Pittsburgh media outlets. I don't know how deep you go into following the Steeler organization so I can't judge. I took your question as sarcasm. Post Gazette, KDKA,Trib... Don't know where you want to go with this.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10007/1026388-66.stm
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 61043.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_661043.html)
http://kdka.com/local/Bruce.Arians.Stee ... 09360.html (http://kdka.com/local/Bruce.Arians.Steelers.2.1409360.html)


Reported on Stan & Guy radio show. If you ever want good info on Steelers, listen. They are actually on now.
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/es ... listenlive (http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1250/story?id=listenlive)
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd= ... ign=WEAEAM (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/live/?callsign=WEAEAM)

Bouchette, Cook, Dulac, Tunch, Wolf, Bob Labriola, and Mike Prisuta. These guys have video, articles, & chat segments all over the place. I know I'm not the only guy that absorbs everything on the Steelers.[/quote:3p3z4qg5]

just a little sarcasm :wink: I really didn't know if you had a source other than the local guys. If they weren't in the room with BA and Tomlin then it's just here say used to sell papers.

Half these guys had BA on the first thing smoking out of town... when their sources failed they came up with Ben saving BA's job or Tomlin putting BA on a short leash.

I don't buy it... we all watched last year and while the O had problems in the redzone we were kicking onside with the lead because our D failed us.

BURGH86STEEL
09-23-2010, 01:05 PM
[quote=feltdizz][quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":34qbisgy]I think all of us can appreciate the passion that Steeltorch & JD have for the Steelers. Nothing wrong with that. To be perfectly honest, glad you are on our side. When it comes to Arians & this topic, both of you are wearing your heart on your sleeve while others can step back and be more objective. Because the world is made up of all kinds of people...And Steeler fans don't take $hit....Our stubbornness have made some of the post start to get a "personal" flavor....Including my own.

Objectively:
We can all agree...Arians is on the hot seat. That is an accurate conclusion. Arians has to improve his offensive balance and play calling adjustments. Another accurate conclussion based on Rooney & Tomlin's remarks & what we witnessed last year.

In Question:
#1 Are the Steelers evaluating Arians during these games without Roesthlisberger?
#2 Can we make an assumption of Arians effectiveness through the games without Roethlisberger?

Many disagree on the last two...So be it. The answers will come in the range of games 5-7 no matter what opinion you have. That's the last accurate conclusion. We will know the answer.

How is Arians on the hot seat? Is it because fans on here say so? Was it the false reporting last off season that said he is on the hot seat?

It's the NFL(not for long) so I understand he won't be here forever but I think his job is as secure as the next guys... which isn't saying much but still, I don't think he is on thin ice and with Pouncey at C and Redman as the short yardage guy the main issue of running effectively will most certainly be achieved once Ben comes back and they can't stack the box.

Unless Ben plays like HOT GARBAGE I can't see our offense taking a step back from last year.
Every Pittsburgh media figure reported the owners displeasure with the direction of the offense. Rooney actually said that publicly which I'm sure you heard. With rumors & speculation swirling in the Pittsbugh media, the "Where there's smoke-There's fire" phrase has some weight not making the playoffs after a SB.

The way these first 4 games are unfolding, it is actually adding more pressure to Arians. If the Steelers end up 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben...What would the expectations be after he returns? It is only two games but it doesn't look like the burden / blame will fall on the defense if they hold true to form. Think about it. 3-1 or 4-0 without Ben. If they miss the playoffs...What happens? 1 and done...What happens? Expectations? Somebody will need to be pointed at on the sideline. If this defense holds true to form and there is a let down...Who will it be?

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 and done it will say a ton about Ben and the time he missed. While fans can be unrealistic I think we also know anyone can lose at anytime in the NFL.

The Rooneys had displeasure with our run game and we drafted Pouncey and fired the OL coach. I don't see how that points to BA. It just means the owners finally admitted that our late rounders and Center choices have been bad. If the Rooneys were really upset they would have fired BA.


JPN are you in on the meetings with Tomlin and Arians or have a source? You seem to know exactly how it went down.[/quote:34qbisgy]

If we miss the playoffs or go 1 & done, Arians won't get a new contract. The Rooney's were upset about missing the playoffs. They were upset about how the offense was performing. Tomlin has a boss too.

When this all went down, it was all over Pittsburgh media outlets. I don't know how deep you go into following the Steeler organization so I can't judge. I took your question as sarcasm. Post Gazette, KDKA,Trib... Don't know where you want to go with this.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10007/1026388-66.stm
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 61043.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_661043.html)
http://kdka.com/local/Bruce.Arians.Stee ... 09360.html (http://kdka.com/local/Bruce.Arians.Steelers.2.1409360.html)


Reported on Stan & Guy radio show. If you ever want good info on Steelers, listen. They are actually on now.
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/es ... listenlive (http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espnradio1250/story?id=listenlive)
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd= ... ign=WEAEAM (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/live/?callsign=WEAEAM)

Bouchette, Cook, Dulac, Tunch, Wolf, Bob Labriola, and Mike Prisuta. These guys have video, articles, & chat segments all over the place. I know I'm not the only guy that absorbs everything on the Steelers.[/quote:34qbisgy]

How do you know Arians won't get a new contract?

Not sure how upset the organization was or was not. I don't believe they were upset about the overall performance of the offense. I believe there were certain areas they felt the offense should improve to help make the team better. The extremist will have some believe it was the ENTIRE offense. They had success in several areas on offense.

The team missed the playoffs for several reasons. They were not good enough as a team to make it.

The initial reports were BA would be fired. Many in the media were wrong. Since when do we take what the media writes or says as gospel?

RuthlessBurgher
09-23-2010, 01:27 PM
[quote="stlrz d":30jq37sv]Off the top of my head, Steelers OC's that I loved:

Chan Gailey
Mike Mularkey
Whiz

Steelers OC's that I hate or hated:

Joe Walton
Ron Erhadt
Bruce "hot garbage" Arians

I'm sure there are more that fall into one category or another, but that's what I came up with just now.

So all the "fans will always blame the OC" crap can stop. It's a lie. And if you propagate that myth then you are a liar. Plain and simple, a liar.

The three guys on my "loved" list were creative and unpredictable and knew how to use the talent they had at their disposal. They kept defenses, and the fans, guessing at what was coming next.

The three guys on my "hate or hated" list were (or are) stubborn, predictable, unimaginative, possibly even lacking intelligence and plain uninspiring. And when I say "hate" I mean "hated as OC's, not as people".

Thank God we get Ben "the Arians eraser" Roethlisberger back in a few weeks. The hot garbage is really stinking and needs to be taken to the curb.


What did you think of Kevin Gilbride, and Sherman Lewis????

I'd have to put both of themm on the "Hate as OC's" list....

JD

Forgot about those two. Yup. "Hate as OCs" list for them too.[/quote:30jq37sv]

Gilbride had success with the Jags and Giants, but in Pittsburgh, he tried too hard to fit a square peg in a round hole, forcing his system onto players whose skillsets did not mesh, instead of adapting his system to meet his players' strengths.

Sherman Lewis was never employed by the Steelers. He was Favre's O.C. in Green Bay in the 90's. I believe J.D. meant to refer to Ray "One and Done" Sherman.

Both Gilbride and Sherman were awful in their O.C. stints in Pittsburgh.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 01:48 PM
just a little sarcasm I really didn't know if you had a source other than the local guys. If they weren't in the room with BA and Tomlin then it's just here say used to sell papers.

Half these guys had BA on the first thing smoking out of town... when their sources failed they came up with Ben saving BA's job or Tomlin putting BA on a short leash.

I don't buy it... we all watched last year and while the O had problems in the redzone we were kicking onside with the lead because our D failed us.







Creditability. Journalism. It is a real job...Surprisingly. Believe what you want. The press passes aren't handed out to everyone. Simply comical how people create there own opinions and find it difficult to believe people who actually shake Tomlin's or Rooney's hand, have a luncheon with them, or in the same room with them for hours. Recognized journalist, but everything they report has a different agenda with no truth. "Don't buy it." But Tomlin & Arians tell these guys about what was discussed in the meeting and it is still made up.

Defensive failure was exclamated by losing late game leads. Smith & Polamalu couldn't help from the sideline. DL scrambled to make things work. Defense didn't help the situation that's for sure. But just like the defense is carrying the offense this year....It was the offense that should have taken on the challenge when they got the lead. Getting the ball and throw 3 passes to go 3 & out while taking off 1:45 with a 2 posession lead in the 2nd half...Isn't going to make a head coach happy. Arians situational play calling last year given the defensive struggles was anything but acceptable. That wasn't a secret.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 01:57 PM
I don't know about hot seats, cold seats or any other seat, but blaming ineffective running and the offense for last year's failure to reach the playoffs is like blaming the fork for being fat. Yes, the offense had chances to put games away early, but they also bailed the defense out on at least 3 or 4 occasions. The Rooneys, IMO were simply telling Tomlin that the offense needed to do some things better. I didn't take it as, if your offense doesn't do these things better heads will roll.

My guess is the Rooneys said the same thing about the defense, but it never made it publicly. How could you not tell Tomlin and Lebeau that the defense needs to eliminate mental mistakes late and be properly conditioned for an entire football game? The defense had breakdowns in certain situations last year just like the offense, i.e., third and long, no picks by a corner back, the linebackers took turns on which half of the season to excel, and safety play was lets say sketchy at best.

No one side of the ball was more culpable than the other; I don't believe the Rooneys gave Tomlin an ultimatum on Arians, it's not their style.

Pappy
Steelers offense gave the oppositions offense the ball back way to quickly. Even without Troy & Aaron, the D was very efficient playing down & distance football. The D was vulnerable with 5 or more DBs on the field. Of course there was break downs on both sides of the ball but the offense was giving the other team the ball back without eating up the clock. They couldn't sustain drives and shorten the game.


If I was a betting man, I would put a large sum of money that DL & BA meetings had different atmospheres. DL's job was never in jeopardy.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 02:11 PM
How do you know Arians won't get a new contract?

Not sure how upset the organization was or was not. I don't believe they were upset about the overall performance of the offense. I believe there were certain areas they felt the offense should improve to help make the team better. The extremist will have some believe it was the ENTIRE offense. They had success in several areas on offense.

The team missed the playoffs for several reasons. They were not good enough as a team to make it.

The initial reports were BA would be fired. Many in the media were wrong. Since when do we take what the media writes or says as gospel?

You feel confident in saying that if the Steelers go 3-1 or 4-0 and Ben comes back & the Steelers miss the playoffs...BA will get another contract? I'm not saying it couldn't happen because there is no way to know what the offense does through those last 12 games. However, if there are any offensive problems...I don't think he has a chance.

Ask yourself this. How many times since you been a Steeler fan have you heard a Rooney express his displeasure with an aspect of play on the field? For how bad the defense played, I didn't here him mention that.

Slapstick
09-23-2010, 02:38 PM
There is an odd double standard here...

It seems that when it is pointed out that the defense gave up several 4th quarter leads last year, people rationalize it by pointing out that Polamalu and Smith were out...LeBeau did the best he could with what he had...

But, when it is pointed out that Roethlisberger is suspended, the starting left tackle is injured and that the Steelers are playing with their #3 or #4 QB, it somehow doesn't matter and that the unacceptable results are all Arians' fault...

Arians' is accused of being uncreative with his play calling because of his results...yet no one would dare accuse LeBeau of being uncreative when the defense gives up multiple 4th quarter leads...

I love having LeBeau as DC...and I don't necessarily love having Arians....

The double standard is a bit strange, however...

Crash
09-23-2010, 02:45 PM
Because people don't dare bash their beloved defense.

That's why.

feltdizz
09-23-2010, 03:04 PM
How do you know Arians won't get a new contract?

Not sure how upset the organization was or was not. I don't believe they were upset about the overall performance of the offense. I believe there were certain areas they felt the offense should improve to help make the team better. The extremist will have some believe it was the ENTIRE offense. They had success in several areas on offense.

The team missed the playoffs for several reasons. They were not good enough as a team to make it.

The initial reports were BA would be fired. Many in the media were wrong. Since when do we take what the media writes or says as gospel?

You feel confident in saying that if the Steelers go 3-1 or 4-0 and Ben comes back & the Steelers miss the playoffs...BA will get another contract? I'm not saying it couldn't happen because there is no way to know what the offense does through those last 12 games. However, if there are any offensive problems...I don't think he has a chance.

Ask yourself this. How many times since you been a Steeler fan have you heard a Rooney express his displeasure with an aspect of play on the field? For how bad the defense played, I didn't here him mention that.

how many times has Rooney brought back old vets? How many times have we given 30 somethings contract extensions?

Rooney also said our youth has to get on the field on D because it was obvious our old heads were getting beat on D.

I don't take one sentence or critique as an "or else" statement. I just think R2 speaks freely about our team's strength and weaknesses.

AngryAsian
09-23-2010, 03:05 PM
There is an odd double standard here...

It seems that when it is pointed out that the defense gave up several 4th quarter leads last year, people rationalize it by pointing out that Polamalu and Smith were out...LeBeau did the best he could with what he had...

But, when it is pointed out that Roethlisberger is suspended, the starting left tackle is injured and that the Steelers are playing with their #3 or #4 QB, it somehow doesn't matter and that the unacceptable results are all Arians' fault...

Arians' is accused of being uncreative with his play calling because of his results...yet no one would dare accuse LeBeau of being uncreative when the defense gives up multiple 4th quarter leads...

I love having LeBeau as DC...and I don't necessarily love having Arians....

The double standard is a bit strange, however...


The difference with you logic is history.... LeBeau's defense has a long standing history of putting forth #1 rated yields both with run and pass defense. Arians has no history of such elevated success. Just a humble observation.

SteelTorch
09-23-2010, 03:19 PM
There is an odd double standard here...

It seems that when it is pointed out that the defense gave up several 4th quarter leads last year, people rationalize it by pointing out that Polamalu and Smith were out...LeBeau did the best he could with what he had...

But, when it is pointed out that Roethlisberger is suspended, the starting left tackle is injured and that the Steelers are playing with their #3 or #4 QB, it somehow doesn't matter and that the unacceptable results are all Arians' fault...

Arians' is accused of being uncreative with his play calling because of his results...yet no one would dare accuse LeBeau of being uncreative when the defense gives up multiple 4th quarter leads...

I love having LeBeau as DC...and I don't necessarily love having Arians....

The double standard is a bit strange, however...


The difference with you logic is history.... LeBeau's defense has a long standing history of putting forth #1 rated yields both with run and pass defense. Arians has no history of such elevated success. Just a humble observation.
:Agree

Crash
09-23-2010, 03:33 PM
The difference with you logic is history.... LeBeau's defense has a long standing history of putting forth #1 rated yields both with run and pass defense. Arians has no history of such elevated success. Just a humble observation.

But that history also includes a pattern of blowing 4th quarter leads and not making key stops in the 4th quarters.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 03:41 PM
How do you know Arians won't get a new contract?

Not sure how upset the organization was or was not. I don't believe they were upset about the overall performance of the offense. I believe there were certain areas they felt the offense should improve to help make the team better. The extremist will have some believe it was the ENTIRE offense. They had success in several areas on offense.

The team missed the playoffs for several reasons. They were not good enough as a team to make it.

The initial reports were BA would be fired. Many in the media were wrong. Since when do we take what the media writes or says as gospel?

You feel confident in saying that if the Steelers go 3-1 or 4-0 and Ben comes back & the Steelers miss the playoffs...BA will get another contract? I'm not saying it couldn't happen because there is no way to know what the offense does through those last 12 games. However, if there are any offensive problems...I don't think he has a chance.

Ask yourself this. How many times since you been a Steeler fan have you heard a Rooney express his displeasure with an aspect of play on the field? For how bad the defense played, I didn't here him mention that.

how many times has Rooney brought back old vets? How many times have we given 30 somethings contract extensions?

Rooney also said our youth has to get on the field on D because it was obvious our old heads were getting beat on D.

I don't take one sentence or critique as an "or else" statement. I just think R2 speaks freely about our team's strength and weaknesses.

OK...Now you lost me. Where does Old vets or 30 something contract extensions come in?

Getting rookies on the field had nothing to with old heads getting beat on D. Carter was an old head who got beat. He was forced into starting because of Troy's injury but every "old head" on that team is still playing at a high level. Farrior was questionable last year but actually look pretty goo through two games. I recall Rooney talking about the young players seeing the field and making a contribution earlier. I take that comment as a push for coaches to get them better prepared to see the field early.


I agree...Rooney speaks freely. After Anderson retires, Arians meeting with Tomlin, and Zierlein's firing:

"I think Mike and I certainly agreed coming off the season that we need to run the ball more consistently to get to where we want to get to. So that's part of the thinking in the offseason: We need to figure out how to get better running the football."


"We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season."


"I never went to Mike and said we have to fire Bruce. Mike never came to me and said we have to keep Bruce under any circumstances. We talked about every member of the staff. Mike was comfortable that we needed to make some changes, but that wasn't a change we need to make. And I'm certainly comfortable with that. I think we've had good success under Bruce. There was never any tug of war, 'Let's fire Bruce' or anything like that. It's one of those things: There are certain positions that take the heat in any season that goes wrong and offensive coordinators are always fair game, and Bruce knows that."


When I heard him say this, I had a visions of Dan Rooney saying, "Art...Put a shot across the bow."

Slapstick
09-23-2010, 03:44 PM
The difference with you logic is history.... LeBeau's defense has a long standing history of putting forth #1 rated yields both with run and pass defense. Arians has no history of such elevated success. Just a humble observation.

I can see how that may influence the opinions of posters...

But, that doesn't make it any less of a double standard...

The Steelers have a tremendous tradition of outstanding defensive play...I imagine that makes the double standard easy to overlook...when the defense has an off-year it is looked at as an aberration...

papillon
09-23-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't know about hot seats, cold seats or any other seat, but blaming ineffective running and the offense for last year's failure to reach the playoffs is like blaming the fork for being fat. Yes, the offense had chances to put games away early, but they also bailed the defense out on at least 3 or 4 occasions. The Rooneys, IMO were simply telling Tomlin that the offense needed to do some things better. I didn't take it as, if your offense doesn't do these things better heads will roll.

My guess is the Rooneys said the same thing about the defense, but it never made it publicly. How could you not tell Tomlin and Lebeau that the defense needs to eliminate mental mistakes late and be properly conditioned for an entire football game? The defense had breakdowns in certain situations last year just like the offense, i.e., third and long, no picks by a corner back, the linebackers took turns on which half of the season to excel, and safety play was lets say sketchy at best.

No one side of the ball was more culpable than the other; I don't believe the Rooneys gave Tomlin an ultimatum on Arians, it's not their style.

Pappy
Steelers offense gave the oppositions offense the ball back way to quickly. Even without Troy & Aaron, the D was very efficient playing down & distance football. The D was vulnerable with 5 or more DBs on the field. Of course there was break downs on both sides of the ball but the offense was giving the other team the ball back without eating up the clock. They couldn't sustain drives and shorten the game.


If I was a betting man, I would put a large sum of money that DL & BA meetings had different atmospheres. DL's job was never in jeopardy.

The Steelers were 5th in TOP last year at 32 minutes per game; the giving the ball back too quickly contradicts what actually happened. What the Steelers' offense failed to do in many games is finish teams off early when they had them on the ropes. They were also not real efficient in the red zone and on 3rd and short.

I'm sure DL's job was never in jeopardy and I'm not certain that BA's was either. He's designed a passing offense that is necessary to win in the NFL and a running game that is good between the 20s. The failings in the red zone and on 3rd and short should change once Ben is back and playing. Pouncey, Redman and Mendenhall should dramatically help the 3rd and short issue. With that being better the red zone efficiency will improve by default, because more drives will be sustained.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-23-2010, 05:06 PM
I don't know about hot seats, cold seats or any other seat, but blaming ineffective running and the offense for last year's failure to reach the playoffs is like blaming the fork for being fat. Yes, the offense had chances to put games away early, but they also bailed the defense out on at least 3 or 4 occasions. The Rooneys, IMO were simply telling Tomlin that the offense needed to do some things better. I didn't take it as, if your offense doesn't do these things better heads will roll.

My guess is the Rooneys said the same thing about the defense, but it never made it publicly. How could you not tell Tomlin and Lebeau that the defense needs to eliminate mental mistakes late and be properly conditioned for an entire football game? The defense had breakdowns in certain situations last year just like the offense, i.e., third and long, no picks by a corner back, the linebackers took turns on which half of the season to excel, and safety play was lets say sketchy at best.

No one side of the ball was more culpable than the other; I don't believe the Rooneys gave Tomlin an ultimatum on Arians, it's not their style.

Pappy
Steelers offense gave the oppositions offense the ball back way to quickly. Even without Troy & Aaron, the D was very efficient playing down & distance football. The D was vulnerable with 5 or more DBs on the field. Of course there was break downs on both sides of the ball but the offense was giving the other team the ball back without eating up the clock. They couldn't sustain drives and shorten the game.


If I was a betting man, I would put a large sum of money that DL & BA meetings had different atmospheres. DL's job was never in jeopardy.

The Steelers were 5th in TOP last year at 32 minutes per game; the giving the ball back too quickly contradicts what actually happened. What the Steelers' offense failed to do in many games is finish teams off early when they had them on the ropes. They were also not real efficient in the red zone and on 3rd and short.

I'm sure DL's job was never in jeopardy and I'm not certain that BA's was either. He's designed a passing offense that is necessary to win in the NFL and a running game that is good between the 20s. The failings in the red zone and on 3rd and short should change once Ben is back and playing. Pouncey, Redman and Mendenhall should dramatically help the 3rd and short issue. With that being better the red zone efficiency will improve by default, because more drives will be sustained.

Pappy
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

feltdizz
09-23-2010, 07:06 PM
Nasty you asked me when was the last time Rooney said something in public about our O... I provided a few more things Rooney has done that we haven't seen before. I don't think you can hold his statement of running more effectively as a threat to BA.

The last paragraph pretty much sums up what really happened. No threats of firing BA, no threats of changing our offensive philosophy either... Our owner wants to run better and we wet out and got a stud Center and gave Redman ample chances to show what he can do.

I can't imagine what the board would be like if we were 0-2.

SteelTorch
09-23-2010, 09:22 PM
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.
Or maybe we would have picked up another win if the defense didn't give up several loooong drives to close out the game.

We had several problems last year - ToP was not one of them. :HeadBanger

papillon
09-23-2010, 10:36 PM
[quote=papillon]I don't know about hot seats, cold seats or any other seat, but blaming ineffective running and the offense for last year's failure to reach the playoffs is like blaming the fork for being fat. Yes, the offense had chances to put games away early, but they also bailed the defense out on at least 3 or 4 occasions. The Rooneys, IMO were simply telling Tomlin that the offense needed to do some things better. I didn't take it as, if your offense doesn't do these things better heads will roll.

My guess is the Rooneys said the same thing about the defense, but it never made it publicly. How could you not tell Tomlin and Lebeau that the defense needs to eliminate mental mistakes late and be properly conditioned for an entire football game? The defense had breakdowns in certain situations last year just like the offense, i.e., third and long, no picks by a corner back, the linebackers took turns on which half of the season to excel, and safety play was lets say sketchy at best.

No one side of the ball was more culpable than the other; I don't believe the Rooneys gave Tomlin an ultimatum on Arians, it's not their style.

Pappy
Steelers offense gave the oppositions offense the ball back way to quickly. Even without Troy & Aaron, the D was very efficient playing down & distance football. The D was vulnerable with 5 or more DBs on the field. Of course there was break downs on both sides of the ball but the offense was giving the other team the ball back without eating up the clock. They couldn't sustain drives and shorten the game.


If I was a betting man, I would put a large sum of money that DL & BA meetings had different atmospheres. DL's job was never in jeopardy.

The Steelers were 5th in TOP last year at 32 minutes per game; the giving the ball back too quickly contradicts what actually happened. What the Steelers' offense failed to do in many games is finish teams off early when they had them on the ropes. They were also not real efficient in the red zone and on 3rd and short.

I'm sure DL's job was never in jeopardy and I'm not certain that BA's was either. He's designed a passing offense that is necessary to win in the NFL and a running game that is good between the 20s. The failings in the red zone and on 3rd and short should change once Ben is back and playing. Pouncey, Redman and Mendenhall should dramatically help the 3rd and short issue. With that being better the red zone efficiency will improve by default, because more drives will be sustained.

Pappy
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.[/quote:2u2li575]

And, don't forget the corollary during the 5 game losing streak and that is that the defense was giving up long drives keeping our offense off the field. The TOP is a tricky stat, but when you mentioned that the offense gave the ball back to the opponent too quickly the TOP is the defense in the debate that they didn't give back too quickly.

Like any stat that is tallied over a many games there will be those games that are outside the standard deviation and should be thrown out and then average the TOP.

In the end, it is my opinion that BA has designed an offense that is necessary to win in the NFL. The Steelers can pass the ball effectively and run the ball effectively between the 20s. They went out and drafted Pouncey and kept Redman to help. The Steelers TOP could skyrocket if Redman and Pouncey succeed and the offense could be very dangerous.

Blaming Arians is still like blaming the fork for being fat.

Pappy

stlrz d
09-23-2010, 11:05 PM
Lots of :Blah :Blah :Blah

Arians still sucks :moon

grotonsteel
09-23-2010, 11:50 PM
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

How many times did you see Steelers D giving 80 yard TD after offense just scored.

Steelers D gave more than 75 twenty yards plays one of the worst in the league. Just watch Oakland last drive.

TOP got nothing to do with Steelers defensive struggle last season. Injuries and poor game planing by DL were the main reason for Defensive struggles last season.

When your Defense can't shutdown Cutler/Cassell/Palmer/Bruce G/Brady Quinn/Daunte C then Steelers D can't say they were dominant or even good.

JDSteeler
09-24-2010, 02:01 AM
Lots of :Blah :Blah :Blah

Arians still sucks :moon

He sucks "Hot" Garbage!!!!

Until BA can actually pull his head out, and attempts to call of "Mix" of
run plays, he will continue to called a The Baffoon!!!

The stupidity he exemplifies by calling the "RUTFM", is mind-boggling!!!

The defense has already seen the tape on how we "RUTFM", and have
devised a strategy to stop it. The catostrophic problem that the
running game has is, it's the ONLY running play in the HUGE, COMPLEX,
CREATIVE, and IMAGINATIVE aersonal of plays that BA has put together.

He's a master-mind at X's, and O's!!!!

Hey, Baffoon....Have a great game!!!

JD

stlrz d
09-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Lots of :Blah :Blah :Blah

Arians still sucks :moon

He sucks "Hot" Garbage!!!!

Until BA can actually pull his head out, and attempts to call of "Mix" of
run plays, he will continue to called a The Baffoon!!!

The stupidity he exemplifies by calling the "RUTFM", is mind-boggling!!!

The defense has already seen the tape on how we "RUTFM", and have
devised a strategy to stop it. The catostrophic problem that the
running game has is, it's the ONLY running play in the HUGE, COMPLEX,
CREATIVE, and IMAGINATIVE aersonal of plays that BA has put together.

He's a master-mind at X's, and O's!!!!

Hey, Baffoon....Have a great game!!!

JD

Maybe. Maybe not. LOL! :lol:

http://www.aranai.com/a8/files/tictactoe_full.jpg

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 07:56 AM
Nasty you asked me when was the last time Rooney said something in public about our O... I provided a few more things Rooney has done that we haven't seen before. I don't think you can hold his statement of running more effectively as a threat to BA.

The last paragraph pretty much sums up what really happened. No threats of firing BA, no threats of changing our offensive philosophy either... Our owner wants to run better and we wet out and got a stud Center and gave Redman ample chances to show what he can do.

I can't imagine what the board would be like if we were 0-2.

I hear ya. 2-0 & nobody is happy! :wink: Ok...I see where you were going. I said, "Ask yourself this. How many times since you been a Steeler fan have you heard a Rooney express his displeasure with an aspect of play on the field?" So the, "how many times has Rooney brought back old vets? How many times have we given 30 somethings contract extensions?" threw me. I guess we just misunderstood each other. I was trying to say Rooney(s) don't often put publicly displeasure of in game production.

I read into his quotes and action of events differently. He expressed changes needed to be made. Also said they needed to run the ball more consistently to get to where the Steelers want to get to and The Steelers have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season. OL coach was fired and Tomlin implemented some philosophical changes which Arians agreed with in the meeting. 1st round pick Pouncey. Rooney speaks. Like I said, "Shot across the bow". Sounds like they are saying..."Here ya go Arians. Told you what direction we need to go in. Got you a new OL coach & 1st round pick was a C (Who is starting). The rest is on you." That is how I take it.

Now, as far as the run game....Given the situation & the early success....Arian's is of to a heck of a start. Now is that by choice? Definately see Koogs impact. But how does this change when he gets his sportscar back from the shop? That is when the bashing or pats on the back will come.

feltdizz
09-24-2010, 08:15 AM
When Ben returns we should be a damn good football team. If our D plays like this all year I don't see how we go at least 11-5 if not 12-4.

However you have to realize on Planet Steelers all of Ben's success is due to Ben and in spite of Arians.

Once Ben starts throwing deep Mendenhall will have a field day running without 9 in the box.

Slapstick
09-24-2010, 08:22 AM
Lots of :Blah :Blah :Blah

Arians still sucks :moon

Imaginative AND insightful!

:Clap :Clap :Clap

SteelTorch
09-24-2010, 08:22 AM
I read into his quotes and action of events differently. He expressed changes needed to be made. Also said they needed to run the ball more consistently to get to where the Steelers want to get to and The Steelers have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season.
Just what do you mean by "consistently"? That we didn't run enough? We ran the ball about 44.4% of the time last season. You saying we need to run at least 50/50 to be consistent? Or are you saying we need to run the ball more effectively - which is what we SHOULD focus on. Our inability to run the ball well was what hurt us, not how often we ran it.

SteelTorch
09-24-2010, 08:25 AM
When Ben returns we should be a damn good football team. If our D plays like this all year I don't see how we go at least 11-5 if not 12-4.

However you have to realize on Planet Steelers all of Ben's success is due to Ben and in spite of Arians.

Once Ben starts throwing deep Mendenhall will have a field day running without 9 in the box.
Ben Roethlisberger was always a good QB. Arians doesn't deserve credit for nuthin'! :moon

Slapstick
09-24-2010, 08:26 AM
Ben Roethlisberger was always a good QB. Arians doesn't deserve credit for nuthin'! :moon

...except actually trusting his franchise QB and building the offense around him...

SteelTorch
09-24-2010, 08:32 AM
Ben Roethlisberger was always a good QB. Arians doesn't deserve credit for nuthin'! :moon

...except actually trusting his franchise QB and building the offense around him...
Yeah, what a brilliant OC he must be - actually letting Ben, our best player on offense, run the show. :roll:

By the way, Ben actually threw the ball more in 2006 than he did in 2007 - when Arians first took the reigns.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 08:34 AM
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.
Or maybe we would have picked up another win if the defense didn't give up several loooong drives to close out the game.

We had several problems last year - ToP was not one of them. :HeadBanger
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?

Slapstick
09-24-2010, 08:38 AM
Ben Roethlisberger was always a good QB. Arians doesn't deserve credit for nuthin'! :moon

...except actually trusting his franchise QB and building the offense around him...
Yeah, what a brilliant OC he must be - actually letting Ben, our best player on offense, run the show. :roll:

By the way, Ben actually threw the ball more in 2006 than he did in 2007 - when Arians first took the reigns.

Before Arians, it didn't happen...so, he must have done something both different AND right...

And, I'm not referring to pass/run ratio or even offensive personnel...

I'm referring to the philosophy of actually involving Roehtlisberger in creating the offense and offensive philosophy...of getting rid of the plays in the playbook that he does execute well and allowing him the freedom to audible...

I'm talking about putting the ball in his hands metaphorically...not just literally...

SteelTorch
09-24-2010, 08:40 AM
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

SteelTorch
09-24-2010, 08:43 AM
Before Arians, it didn't happen...so, he must have done something both different AND right...

And, I'm not referring to pass/run ratio or even offensive personnel...

I'm referring to the philosophy of actually involving Roehtlisberger in creating the offense and offensive philosophy...of getting rid of the plays in the playbook that he does execute well and allowing him the freedom to audible...

I'm talking about putting the ball in his hands metaphorically...not just literally...
Yeah, he gave Ben more say in how to run the things. That's about the only thing he's done right. That does not, however, compensate for him being an incompetent OC. By the way, I don't think we can credit Arians for trusting Ben as much as we can discredit Wiz for "distrusting" Ben. Ben was still a rookie in 04 and 05, and in 06 he clearly was not in playing shape. And we still had a great running game back then. I don't see why they would have wanted to hand the ball to him so soon anyway.

papillon
09-24-2010, 09:06 AM
Ben has progressed as a quarterback the way most quarterbacks do when they enter the league. They are spoon fed the offense, let the defense keep you in games and produce enough offense to win. In Ben's case, he was simply a superior player than most rookie quarterbacks and he was able to make some plays that others couldn't. He now has complete control over the offense, the entire playbook is his to use and the offense is his to direct.

The best thing Arians can do at this point is go over the game plan with Ben, review the game film, script the beginning of the game, work as a team to determine how to attack the upcoming opponent and let him loose on Sundays. Arians work right now is Tuesday through Saturday once Ben returns.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 09:15 AM
The Steelers were 5th in TOP last year at 32 minutes per game; the giving the ball back too quickly contradicts what actually happened. What the Steelers' offense failed to do in many games is finish teams off early when they had them on the ropes. They were also not real efficient in the red zone and on 3rd and short.

I'm sure DL's job was never in jeopardy and I'm not certain that BA's was either. He's designed a passing offense that is necessary to win in the NFL and a running game that is good between the 20s. The failings in the red zone and on 3rd and short should change once Ben is back and playing. Pouncey, Redman and Mendenhall should dramatically help the 3rd and short issue. With that being better the red zone efficiency will improve by default, because more drives will be sustained.

Pappy


PAP, Hopefully you see this because I had to leave yesterday and couldn't finish my post.

TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

To add,I really didn't mention TOP. I said gave the ball back way to quickly. You actually finished my point. It wasn't a contradiction because TOP & 3rd down efficiency need to be looked at side by side. During the 5 game streak, the Steelers were 19 of 67 on 3rd down. A disgusting 28%. A 3rd down conversion adds to TOP so you see why they go hand in hand.

To correct my post in lieu of your post...If you use total TOP (Including Overtime) the Steelers were 3rd at 32:52 in 2009. You said 32 & it got my curious so I did more research. The 32:52 includes the 3 overtime games which had a total of 19 minutes or so. I didn't do a break down of how much the Steelers gained in avg from the 3 overtime games. It would be to time consuming but I would be interested to see what it looked like minus the KC game & overtime.

You would really like to have a + TOP as a yearly average. That still holds pretty true. In today's NFL, we have seen high power offenses have went against form. I think someone in here mentioned the Colts last year. They were next to last and were in the SB. For the most part, you keep yourself with a + TOP and in the 45%-50% range on 3rd down efficiency, you just made your defense a whole lot better.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 09:32 AM
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

How many times did you see Steelers D giving 80 yard TD after offense just scored.

Steelers D gave more than 75 twenty yards plays one of the worst in the league. Just watch Oakland last drive.

TOP got nothing to do with Steelers defensive struggle last season. Injuries and poor game planing by DL were the main reason for Defensive struggles last season.

When your Defense can't shutdown Cutler/Cassell/Palmer/Bruce G/Brady Quinn/Daunte C then Steelers D can't say they were dominant or even good.

And how many times did you see the offense come out after that (The light should have went on) and run three pass plays & end up punting? Here...Take the ball back...Try again! How many times did the Steelers build that big league and not go into protect mode knowing the defense was struggling? The Steelers got a lead. Continued to play high risk football and couldn't convert 3rd downs. Gave the ball back to the other team and gave them another chance to score. Bash the D all you want. There was a reason. And just like there is a reason the D is doing their part right now to protect the offense...The offense should have been doing there part last year to protect the D when they got a lead. You make mention of Raiders last drive. 2 OT losses in game that should have been in hand. Eat the clock...Make a 3rd down...Guess what....They don't have that last posession. That is why it is called a game of seconds & inches.

You guys are making it difficult for me to give Arians a pass through these first 4 games. I was cursing him last year and I'm doing it again. :HeadBanger

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 09:34 AM
When Ben returns we should be a damn good football team. If our D plays like this all year I don't see how we go at least 11-5 if not 12-4.

However you have to realize on Planet Steelers all of Ben's success is due to Ben and in spite of Arians.

Once Ben starts throwing deep Mendenhall will have a field day running without 9 in the box.

AGREE!!!!

Things are getting better in here. :wink:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 09:48 AM
I read into his quotes and action of events differently. He expressed changes needed to be made. Also said they needed to run the ball more consistently to get to where the Steelers want to get to and The Steelers have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season.
Just what do you mean by "consistently"? That we didn't run enough? We ran the ball about 44.4% of the time last season. You saying we need to run at least 50/50 to be consistent? Or are you saying we need to run the ball more effectively - which is what we SHOULD focus on. Our inability to run the ball well was what hurt us, not how often we ran it.
Why would you ask me? They are Rooney's words. Guess you weren't follow along.

In the 5 game losing streak, we ran the ball 42% of the time & passed 58% of the time. We were 19 of 67 (28%) on 3rd downs. TOP minus the KC game, which we lost the game but doubled the TOP(44:07 to 22:25), was almost dead even. And if I remember correctly, in those 5 game, 2 were OT losses & one was a last drive TD. Move the sticks & eat up more clock...Those last drives don't happen.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 09:56 AM
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

See other posts. TOP was a factor. 3rd down % was a factor. They go hand in hand. When your defense struggles you better be winning the TOP & converting 3rd downs or you will be keeping teams close in games. See 5 game losing streak. Just because it is complicated for you to comprehend doesn't make it a myth. It just makes it more obvious to be true.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 09:58 AM
Ben has progressed as a quarterback the way most quarterbacks do when they enter the league. They are spoon fed the offense, let the defense keep you in games and produce enough offense to win. In Ben's case, he was simply a superior player than most rookie quarterbacks and he was able to make some plays that others couldn't. He now has complete control over the offense, the entire playbook is his to use and the offense is his to direct.

The best thing Arians can do at this point is go over the game plan with Ben, review the game film, script the beginning of the game, work as a team to determine how to attack the upcoming opponent and let him loose on Sundays. Arians work right now is Tuesday through Saturday once Ben returns.

Pappy
Well said.

grotonsteel
09-24-2010, 10:00 AM
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

:Agree

Lot of times we wished offense had one chance and they would win the game for us last season..like the Packers game when Ben threw game winning TD to Wallace or the SB43.

Most of the time Ben was on sideline...watching opposing O marching on Steelers D at the dying moments of the game.

grotonsteel
09-24-2010, 10:02 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":2wd9pnio]
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

See other posts. TOP was a factor. 3rd down % was a factor. They go hand in hand. When your defense struggles you better be winning the TOP & converting 3rd downs or you will be keeping teams close in games. See 5 game losing streak. Just because it is complicated for you to comprehend doesn't make it a myth. It just makes it more obvious to be true.[/quote:2wd9pnio]


So you agree Defense struggled last season....and were the major reason for the 5 straight defeat... ??

I am not saying Arians is a genius ..i don't care if he gets fired after this season..All i am saying is Steelers D should take the majority of the blame for Steelers not making playoffs and making mediocre QBs look like Montana/Marino...rather than blaming BA for everything.

feltdizz
09-24-2010, 10:18 AM
Ben Roethlisberger was always a good QB. Arians doesn't deserve credit for nuthin'! :moon

...except actually trusting his franchise QB and building the offense around him...
Yeah, what a brilliant OC he must be - actually letting Ben, our best player on offense, run the show. :roll:

By the way, Ben actually threw the ball more in 2006 than he did in 2007 - when Arians first took the reigns.

2006 was a terrible year. I have no idea why you would even bring 2006 up. We were behind most games and had to throw.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 10:18 AM
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

:Agree

Lot of times we wished offense had one chance and they would win the game for us last season..like the Packers game when Ben threw game winning TD to Wallace or the SB43.

Most of the time Ben was on sideline...watching opposing O marching on Steelers D at the dying moments of the game.
Take the Raiders game. If they converted a 3rd down at some point..Ben's last time on the field might have been when the clock hit 00:00. Not give a team a chance to go 10 plays for 88 yards in 1:47 to go ahead with 9 seconds left. 3 of 9 on 3rd down. Just one more first down. Could have ate up that 1:56. Maybe the TD pass to Ward would have been the last drive.

RuthlessBurgher
09-24-2010, 10:19 AM
Blaming Arians is still like blaming the fork for being fat.

Ben when he still owned "The Fork of Greatness" = FAT

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ow2Juu7nMo/ShV_nrX3rpI/AAAAAAAAQYo/P3VqyMawq7M/s400/Ben-Roethlisberger_3.jpg




Ben after JD...borrowed..."The Fork of Greatness" = THIN

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/340/035/PittsburghSteelersTrainingCamp2010143_display_imag e.jpg?1281581228



The fork is to blame for making him fat, d@mmit! :lol:

grotonsteel
09-24-2010, 10:21 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":qukgdu3u]
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

How many times did you see Steelers D giving 80 yard TD after offense just scored.

Steelers D gave more than 75 twenty yards plays one of the worst in the league. Just watch Oakland last drive.

TOP got nothing to do with Steelers defensive struggle last season. Injuries and poor game planing by DL were the main reason for Defensive struggles last season.

When your Defense can't shutdown Cutler/Cassell/Palmer/Bruce G/Brady Quinn/Daunte C then Steelers D can't say they were dominant or even good.

And how many times did you see the offense come out after that (The light should have went on) and run three pass plays & end up punting? Here...Take the ball back...Try again! How many times did the Steelers build that big league and not go into protect mode knowing the defense was struggling? The Steelers got a lead. Continued to play high risk football and couldn't convert 3rd downs. Gave the ball back to the other team and gave them another chance to score. Bash the D all you want. There was a reason. And just like there is a reason the D is doing their part right now to protect the offense...The offense should have been doing there part last year to protect the D when they got a lead. You make mention of Raiders last drive. 2 OT losses in game that should have been in hand. Eat the clock...Make a 3rd down...Guess what....They don't have that last posession. That is why it is called a game of seconds & inches.

You guys are making it difficult for me to give Arians a pass through these first 4 games. I was cursing him last year and I'm doing it again. :HeadBanger[/quote:qukgdu3u]


Which games did you see BA calling Pass-Pass-Pass-Punt calls after Steelers were leading in 4th Q?? The only game i remember was Browns game which Steelers lost.

I would become biggest Bruce Arians fan if he called more pass plays in 4th Q.

My biggest beef with BA is his play calling after Steelers lead. He goes back to that stupid Run-Run-Pass (3rd and long) play calling.Its so predictable.

Steelers are leading say with 10 points at half. What does BA does when Steelers come out in 2nd half..."Run-Run-Pass" Punt. That is stupid play calling . He goes away from the plays which worked in first half. Why in the world he does that. Steelers don't have bruiser backs anymore or the nasty O-line which would run-block at will.

Keep the ball in Ben's hand and Steelers win comfortably.

papillon
09-24-2010, 10:26 AM
The Steelers were 5th in TOP last year at 32 minutes per game; the giving the ball back too quickly contradicts what actually happened. What the Steelers' offense failed to do in many games is finish teams off early when they had them on the ropes. They were also not real efficient in the red zone and on 3rd and short.

I'm sure DL's job was never in jeopardy and I'm not certain that BA's was either. He's designed a passing offense that is necessary to win in the NFL and a running game that is good between the 20s. The failings in the red zone and on 3rd and short should change once Ben is back and playing. Pouncey, Redman and Mendenhall should dramatically help the 3rd and short issue. With that being better the red zone efficiency will improve by default, because more drives will be sustained.

Pappy


PAP, Hopefully you see this because I had to leave yesterday and couldn't finish my post.

TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

To add,I really didn't mention TOP. I said gave the ball back way to quickly. You actually finished my point. It wasn't a contradiction because TOP & 3rd down efficiency need to be looked at side by side. During the 5 game streak, the Steelers were 19 of 67 on 3rd down. A disgusting 28%. A 3rd down conversion adds to TOP so you see why they go hand in hand.

To correct my post in lieu of your post...If you use total TOP (Including Overtime) the Steelers were 3rd at 32:52 in 2009. You said 32 & it got my curious so I did more research. The 32:52 includes the 3 overtime games which had a total of 19 minutes or so. I didn't do a break down of how much the Steelers gained in avg from the 3 overtime games. It would be to time consuming but I would be interested to see what it looked like minus the KC game & overtime.

You would really like to have a + TOP as a yearly average. That still holds pretty true. In today's NFL, we have seen high power offenses have went against form. I think someone in here mentioned the Colts last year. They were next to last and were in the SB. For the most part, you keep yourself with a + TOP and in the 45%-50% range on 3rd down efficiency, you just made your defense a whole lot better.

JPN, in the end, it's my belief that the offense while lackluster on 3rd downs and in the red zone did enough to win at least one more game last year and that the defense was either not conditioned to play a full 60 minute game or fatigue led to mental mistakes at crucial times and late in games.

Both sides of the ball had their problems at crucial times during games; the defense on 3rd down and the offense on 3rd and short and in the red zone. Throw in the special teams failings and you have a recipe for 9-7 and out of the playoffs. I'm not blaming one side more than the other, but I do believe that the offense under Arians isn't what many make it out to be, predictable and the major reason for last year's failings.

Pappy

grotonsteel
09-24-2010, 10:27 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":15q70jq9]
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

:Agree

Lot of times we wished offense had one chance and they would win the game for us last season..like the Packers game when Ben threw game winning TD to Wallace or the SB43.

Most of the time Ben was on sideline...watching opposing O marching on Steelers D at the dying moments of the game.
Take the Raiders game. If they converted a 3rd down at some point..Ben's last time on the field might have been when the clock hit 00:00. Not give a team a chance to go 10 plays for 88 yards in 1:47 to go ahead with 9 seconds left. 3 of 9 on 3rd down. Just one more first down. Could have ate up that 1:56. Maybe the TD pass to Ward would have been the last drive.[/quote:15q70jq9]


What do you expect Steelers O to be on field for 45 min??? Like Miami Dolphins did against Colts?? Its not possible to do it every game.

Steelers team cannot win any games if there Defense allow Bruce Gardowski(sp. chk) to march 88 yards in last 1:47 of the game. This is not money defense.

Sorry we are not talking about some elite QB here who is shredding Steelers D into pieces. Bruce G is a backup NFL QB at best.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 10:27 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":11w5mwai]
If the ball wasn't in their hands...Those drives never would have happened. TOP was a factor in the loosing streak. Only dominated once & lost that game (3 tunovers & gave a ST TD). Lost one & the other 3 were by spreads of 1:44, 3:50, & 1:30. Factor in the one we lost, it was dead even. Take away the one we dominated & lost the game (44:07 to 22:25), and the yearly average drops 1:40. TOP yearly avg is a capped stat. A huge variance (Like the KC game) or overtime in a game can impact the yearly average. You evaluate it on a game by game basis in a loss. TOP is extremely important when you have defensive struggles. Sound familiar?
Yes, the ball wasn't in their hands because the defense would not stop the opposing teams! Someone a while back posted all the very long drives that the defense gave up to close the fourth quarter - if I can find it, I'll post it.

Our problem wasn't that the offense couldn't hold on, it's because the defense never gave them a chance to hold on. The offense isn't going to drive down the length of the field on every series. And you can't say we didn't possess the ball enough in the 4th quarter - our average ToP in the 4th quarter was almost eight minutes.

Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? We were ranked 3rd in ToP last year. Are you saying we have to be FIRST just for it to be acceptable? Stop grasping at straws where there are none. ToP was not a factor, that's just a myth.

See other posts. TOP was a factor. 3rd down % was a factor. They go hand in hand. When your defense struggles you better be winning the TOP & converting 3rd downs or you will be keeping teams close in games. See 5 game losing streak. Just because it is complicated for you to comprehend doesn't make it a myth. It just makes it more obvious to be true.


So you agree Defense struggled last season....and were the major reason for the 5 straight defeat... ??

I am not saying Arians is a genius ..i don't care if he gets fired after this season..All i am saying is Steelers D should take the majority of the blame for Steelers not making playoffs and making mediocre QBs look like Montana/Marino...rather than blaming BA for everything.[/quote:11w5mwai]

Absolutely Agree!!! And it wasn't a secret to other teams nor a surprise to the Steelers. But Arians and the offense did not do a good job of helping their defense out. That's all I'm saying. That was a potent offense. With better game planning & play calling...They could have gone out in front and sat on that lead. Be more efficient on 3rd downs and eat up the clock. Just like 2010 on the other side of the ball. Offense is struggling. DL is making sure he gives the offense field position and as many opportunities as possible to have the ball.

feltdizz
09-24-2010, 10:31 AM
I seem to remember a lot of bombs to Nate Washington, Sweed and Wallace after the RUTFM in second halves of games.

Slapstick
09-24-2010, 10:33 AM
Take the Raiders game. If they converted a 3rd down at some point..Ben's last time on the field might have been when the clock hit 00:00. Not give a team a chance to go 10 plays for 88 yards in 1:47 to go ahead with 9 seconds left. 3 of 9 on 3rd down. Just one more first down. Could have ate up that 1:56. Maybe the TD pass to Ward would have been the last drive.

The game where Bruce Gradkowski hit Joe Burnett in the chest with a pass in the end zone?

Hell, make that catch and the game is over...

I understand what you are saying...but that game in particular cannot be excused...

feltdizz
09-24-2010, 10:33 AM
It's hard to sit on the ball when your Center is getting pushed back 3 yards on every play.

Pouncey to the rescue.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 10:35 AM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":1ptbckvb]
TOP yearly averages can be tricky. The spreads are so tight. Steelers were 31:58 at 5 and dead last was 27:30. The Steelers almost added 2 minutes alone to that average against KC when the doubled them up in TOP. 3 turnovers didn't help. Through the 5 game losing streak, the Steelers pass the ball 58% of the time and ran it 42% of the time. They did pretty good most of the year with TOP. I would bet they would have maybe picked up another win or two if they could tried to balance that a little better during the losing streak. Definately would have took some more plays away from them if they ate up more clock.

How many times did you see Steelers D giving 80 yard TD after offense just scored.

Steelers D gave more than 75 twenty yards plays one of the worst in the league. Just watch Oakland last drive.

TOP got nothing to do with Steelers defensive struggle last season. Injuries and poor game planing by DL were the main reason for Defensive struggles last season.

When your Defense can't shutdown Cutler/Cassell/Palmer/Bruce G/Brady Quinn/Daunte C then Steelers D can't say they were dominant or even good.

And how many times did you see the offense come out after that (The light should have went on) and run three pass plays & end up punting? Here...Take the ball back...Try again! How many times did the Steelers build that big league and not go into protect mode knowing the defense was struggling? The Steelers got a lead. Continued to play high risk football and couldn't convert 3rd downs. Gave the ball back to the other team and gave them another chance to score. Bash the D all you want. There was a reason. And just like there is a reason the D is doing their part right now to protect the offense...The offense should have been doing there part last year to protect the D when they got a lead. You make mention of Raiders last drive. 2 OT losses in game that should have been in hand. Eat the clock...Make a 3rd down...Guess what....They don't have that last posession. That is why it is called a game of seconds & inches.

You guys are making it difficult for me to give Arians a pass through these first 4 games. I was cursing him last year and I'm doing it again. :HeadBanger


Which games did you see BA calling Pass-Pass-Pass-Punt calls after Steelers were leading in 4th Q?? The only game i remember was Browns game which Steelers lost.

I would become biggest Bruce Arians fan if he called more pass plays in 4th Q.

My biggest beef with BA is his play calling after Steelers lead. He goes back to that stupid Run-Run-Pass (3rd and long) play calling.Its so predictable.

Steelers are leading say with 10 points at half. What does BA does when Steelers come out in 2nd half..."Run-Run-Pass" Punt. That is stupid play calling . He goes away from the plays which worked in first half. Why in the world he does that. Steelers don't have bruiser backs anymore or the nasty O-line which would run-block at will.

Keep the ball in Ben's hand and Steelers win comfortably.[/quote:1ptbckvb]
Another wonderful playcall selection...You are absolutely right on that one. He is famous for that. In my reference, you remember Arians trying to repeatedly attack a defense vertically when they were clearly in cover 2 and given the underneath or playing with 1 high safety on run downs and the other safety is at LB level. Arians runs the ball 18 times and passes 44. Good adjustment.

JDSteeler
09-24-2010, 10:36 AM
Blaming Arians is still like blaming the fork for being fat.

Ben when he still owned "The Fork of Greatness" = FAT

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ow2Juu7nMo/ShV_nrX3rpI/AAAAAAAAQYo/P3VqyMawq7M/s400/Ben-Roethlisberger_3.jpg




Ben after JD...borrowed..."The Fork of Greatness" = THIN

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/340/035/PittsburghSteelersTrainingCamp2010143_display_imag e.jpg?1281581228



The fork is to blame for making him fat, d@mmit! :lol:

OK...?

But I wasn't fat when I retrieved the Fork, and I ain't fat, now, after 4-years...maybe that
is because I haven't eaten off of it.... :D :D :D

JD

RuthlessBurgher
09-24-2010, 10:43 AM
Blaming Arians is still like blaming the fork for being fat.

Ben when he still owned "The Fork of Greatness" = FAT

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4ow2Juu7nMo/ShV_nrX3rpI/AAAAAAAAQYo/P3VqyMawq7M/s400/Ben-Roethlisberger_3.jpg




Ben after JD...borrowed..."The Fork of Greatness" = THIN

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/340/035/PittsburghSteelersTrainingCamp2010143_display_imag e.jpg?1281581228



The fork is to blame for making him fat, d@mmit! :lol:

OK...?

But I wasn't fat when I retrieved the Fork, and I ain't fat, now, after 4-years...maybe that
is because I haven't eaten off of it.... :D :D :D

JD

I assumed that you are always frothing at the mouth like a crazed dog because you ate 4-year-old macaroni salad off that thing. :lol:

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-24-2010, 10:48 AM
JPN, in the end, it's my belief that the offense while lackluster on 3rd downs and in the red zone did enough to win at least one more game last year and that the defense was either not conditioned to play a full 60 minute game or fatigue led to mental mistakes at crucial times and late in games.

Both sides of the ball had their problems at crucial times during games; the defense on 3rd down and the offense on 3rd and short and in the red zone. Throw in the special teams failings and you have a recipe for 9-7 and out of the playoffs. I'm not blaming one side more than the other, but I do believe that the offense under Arians isn't what many make it out to be, predictable and the major reason for last year's failings.

Pappy
We agree on many points. I just felt the O could have done more than they did. like I said, they knew what kind of defense they were putting on the field. Defense wasn't going to win any games for us. You are 100% dead on about ST. I think we gave up 2 ST TDs in that 5 game stretch of losses. I'm giving him the chance to grow when Ben comes back. He has a good understanding of how to attack downfield and utilizes the route tree pretty well. I would like to see more post-corner routes with Wallace. I feel this run game is going to be vastly improved and teams will be trying to defend the middle of the field on 1st & 2nd downs with 1 deep S. Wallace can run away from his CB and he will turn the S around if he breaks back out to the corner. One other thing. Mendy & Redman are studs. Help Starks & Adams out. My God, chip the guy on the way out of the backfield. Most of the time, that stones the guy and Adams & Starks will swallow them up if they get caught flat footed. Little things Arians. I'm sure Koogs will not have any problem running chip drills to get them down.