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View Full Version : Tomlin's Use of TO's...WTF?



Flasteel
09-12-2010, 04:45 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-12-2010, 04:52 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2

Don't people make that TO near the end of regulation all the time? ... One more play/chance of making a TD or at least getting closer to the goal line?

Snatch98
09-12-2010, 04:59 PM
I had zero issue with either timeout. Yes the one resulted in points for the Falcons but had the ball moved in our favor instead it wouldn't have been a bad call. I'm tired of people blaming Tomlin for sh.it. A lot teams call timeouts before the two minute warning as well to use the 2 minute warning as another time out and get in a extra play or two.

chiken
09-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Points were hard to come by and we were in a groove... Nothing Wrong with trying to ride the wave and Score... He played to win, cant fault the coach for that.

eniparadoxgma
09-12-2010, 05:04 PM
Agree with the previous two posts :Agree :Beer

Flasteel
09-12-2010, 05:13 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2

Don't people make that TO near the end of regulation all the time? ... One more play/chance of making a TD or at least getting closer to the goal line?

Not in that situation....absolutely not. You have a 2nd and 5 near mid-field and you have all 3 time outs in your back pocket. You have plenty of time to get into position to win the game with 2 minutes. Throw in the fact that your offense had not exactly been lighting things up, and the liklihood you fail to get the first down looms even larger.

There was simply no reason to do it and the clock situation if we fail to get the 1st down would have been very disadvantageous. It was stupid...pure and simple. It almost cost us the game.

By the way, another guy that helped pull Tomlin out of the ringer there was Sepulveda. He was money today and launched another deep one.

Relentless7
09-12-2010, 05:21 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2

Don't people make that TO near the end of regulation all the time? ... One more play/chance of making a TD or at least getting closer to the goal line?

Not in that situation....absolutely not. You have a 2nd and 5 near mid-field and you have all 3 time outs in your back pocket. You have plenty of time to get into position to win the game with 2 minutes. Throw in the fact that your offense had not exactly been lighting things up, and the liklihood you fail to get the first down looms even larger.

There was simply no reason to do it and the clock situation if we fail to get the 1st down would have been very disadvantageous. It was stupid...pure and simple. It almost cost us the game.

By the way, another guy that helped pull Tomlin out of the ringer there was Sepulveda. He was money today and launched another deep one.


The time out wasn't that bad. It sets you up for running the ball and getting into a nice 3rd and short. The Bad part that almost cost us the game was BA being "too cute" (big surprise) and run a play action pass.

steelcurtain44
09-12-2010, 05:50 PM
I can't believe anyone has anything to say about Tomlin as a coach today. His team just one a huge first game without his SB winning QB, and someone starts a post like this. Un-freaking believeable.

Flasteel
09-12-2010, 05:52 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2

Don't people make that TO near the end of regulation all the time? ... One more play/chance of making a TD or at least getting closer to the goal line?

Not in that situation....absolutely not. You have a 2nd and 5 near mid-field and you have all 3 time outs in your back pocket. You have plenty of time to get into position to win the game with 2 minutes. Throw in the fact that your offense had not exactly been lighting things up, and the liklihood you fail to get the first down looms even larger.

There was simply no reason to do it and the clock situation if we fail to get the 1st down would have been very disadvantageous. It was stupid...pure and simple. It almost cost us the game.

By the way, another guy that helped pull Tomlin out of the ringer there was Sepulveda. He was money today and launched another deep one.


The time out wasn't that bad. It sets you up for running the ball and getting into a nice 3rd and short. The Bad part that almost cost us the game was BA being "too cute" (big surprise) and run a play action pass.

I wasn't a fan of the play either, but you are talking about needing only a FG, having all 3 time outs plus the 2-minute warning, and only having to go 30-40 yards max. You don't need to call the time out at all. The end result of not picking up the 1st down could have happened in a myriad of ways, and you have to consider that when managing the clock.

You and everyone else who fail to see the problem here are making the same mistake Tomlin Made...you don't leave them with time. Period.

I hate to play the "what if" game, but what if Troy doesn't make that fantastic play on the ball and Ryan continued to hit those deep outs to Roddy White? I think quite a few of you would be singing a different tune.

I don't want to come off like I'm hating on Tomlin (or Arians for that matter). I thought the team played with fire and was well prepared. Those TO's however, were poor decisions. Not using Dixon's legs, also seemed to be a poor decision.

papillon
09-12-2010, 06:01 PM
It was a smart play by the Steelers to try and preserve time for themselves to move the football. Worrying about leaving time on the clock for the opponent is playing "not to lose" rather than "playing to win" which is what Tomlin did (playing to win, that is).

The problem really is the 2nd and 5 play call; that play should have been a run to Mendenhall. If he makes it, great you get the 2 minute warning with a first down. If he doesn't make it, you go to the 2 minute warning with a 3rd and 5 in a worst case scenario.

I'd rather the Steelers play to win when the opportunity arises with Dixon at quarterback. That was a down and distance that was manageable for him and the Steelers took their chance. I don't really have a problem with any of it (even the play for the most part). I love a coach that plays to win.

Pappy

Snatch98
09-12-2010, 06:14 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2

Don't people make that TO near the end of regulation all the time? ... One more play/chance of making a TD or at least getting closer to the goal line?

Not in that situation....absolutely not. You have a 2nd and 5 near mid-field and you have all 3 time outs in your back pocket. You have plenty of time to get into position to win the game with 2 minutes. Throw in the fact that your offense had not exactly been lighting things up, and the liklihood you fail to get the first down looms even larger.

There was simply no reason to do it and the clock situation if we fail to get the 1st down would have been very disadvantageous. It was stupid...pure and simple. It almost cost us the game.

By the way, another guy that helped pull Tomlin out of the ringer there was Sepulveda. He was money today and launched another deep one.

lol get the hell out of here. The timeout was just fine and while our offense wasn't totally dominating we were moving the ball in short yardage situations. Calling the time out gave us another play and we still had two timeouts. We were in position to put it away but Reed missed the field goal and sent us to overtime. Calling the time out gave us a extra play and the clock was stopped again at the 2 minute warning. Period. It did not almost cost us the game. What's with the irrational Tomlin hate? It's ridiculous. We won the game. Enjoy it. I can't believe we're even discussing timeouts, especially when calling the time out did not IMPACT THE GAME negatively.

SteelHoss
09-12-2010, 06:17 PM
It was a smart play by the Steelers to try and preserve time for themselves to move the football. Worrying about leaving time on the clock for the opponent is playing to "not to lose" rather than "playing to win" which is what he did.

The problem really is the 2nd and 5 play call; that play should have been a run to Mendenhall. If he makes it, great you get the 2 minute warning with a first down. If he doesn't make it, you go to the 2 minute warning with a 3rd and 5 in a worst case scenario.

I'd rather the Steelers play to win when the opportunity arises with Dixon at quarterback. That was a down and distance that was manageable for him and the Steelers took their chance. I don't really have a problem with any of it (even the play for the most part). I love a coach that plays to win.

Pappy


:Agree :) :tt1 :) :tt2

Flasteel
09-12-2010, 06:32 PM
It was a smart play by the Steelers to try and preserve time for themselves to move the football. Worrying about leaving time on the clock for the opponent is playing to "not to lose" rather than "playing to win" which is what he did.

The problem really is the 2nd and 5 play call; that play should have been a run to Mendenhall. If he makes it, great you get the 2 minute warning with a first down. If he doesn't make it, you go to the 2 minute warning with a 3rd and 5 in a worst case scenario.

I'd rather the Steelers play to win when the opportunity arises with Dixon at quarterback. That was a down and distance that was manageable for him and the Steelers took their chance. I don't really have a problem with any of it (even the play for the most part). I love a coach that plays to win.

Pappy

Are you friggin' kidding me Pap? It's got nothing to do with "playing to lose". You just don't put your team in that position. Are you trying to say it's adopting a losing mentality? If so, that is an equally absurd position my friend. It's a contingency you have to consider. It doesn't necessarily impact your play-calling, but you have to evaluate the risk.

A large part of coaching is based on the concept of risk-reward. You DID NOT need to preserve time in that situation, so there is no reward to speak of. Giving the ball back with nearly 2 full minutes however, represents a significant risk. You have to consider that with your clock management.

Explain how we needed to preserve time for our offense and then your argument can begin to make sense. We didn't...pure and simple.


I agree with all of you about the play-call on 2nd and 5. We need to pick up the first down in that situation and we've got 2 downs to get 5 yards. For me, it's Mendenhall all day long (or of course a Dixon roll-out...off the play-fake). One could argue however, that a run is the more conservative route, or "playing not to lose". Playing to win means you're being aggressive in a situation and a pass there was definitely being aggressive. In that regard, the play-call is defensible, especially if it was based on the defensive look. It's not what I would have done, but I can't find too much fault with the approach either.

Flasteel
09-12-2010, 06:45 PM
Not in that situation....absolutely not. You have a 2nd and 5 near mid-field and you have all 3 time outs in your back pocket. You have plenty of time to get into position to win the game with 2 minutes. Throw in the fact that your offense had not exactly been lighting things up, and the liklihood you fail to get the first down looms even larger.

There was simply no reason to do it and the clock situation if we fail to get the 1st down would have been very disadvantageous. It was stupid...pure and simple. It almost cost us the game.

By the way, another guy that helped pull Tomlin out of the ringer there was Sepulveda. He was money today and launched another deep one.

lol get the hell out of here. The timeout was just fine and while our offense wasn't totally dominating we were moving the ball in short yardage situations. Calling the time out gave us another play and we still had two timeouts. We were in position to put it away but Reed missed the field goal and sent us to overtime. Calling the time out gave us a extra play and the clock was stopped again at the 2 minute warning. Period. It did not almost cost us the game. What's with the irrational Tomlin hate? It's ridiculous. We won the game. Enjoy it. I can't believe we're even discussing timeouts, especially when calling the time out did not IMPACT THE GAME negatively.

Holy crap! You're a good guy snatch, but you obviously have zero understanding of the situation. I'll say the same thing about any other poster who comes on here and takes the same position. I don't often pull out the "I used to coach" card, but I coached for many years in one of the top HS programs in the nation. I'm not exactly clueless when it comes to the game.

I friggin' love Mike Tomlin and like I stated in this thread I thought the team was well prepared for the game. Just because we won doesn't mean I'm going to come on here and try to shove rainbows and sunshine up everyones rear-end.

We hit some big plays on offense, but there were only a couple clutch ones. We only had 14 first downs and converted 4 of 14 3rd down conversions. Many of those came on the first couple of series with the Redman conversions.

As for being in a position to win the game on Reed's FG...yeah, we were. It only came about because of the unbelievable play by Troy. I stated in very clear English that I did not want to play the "what if" game. However, by analyzing what could have easily happened, you can clearly see the flaw in Tomlin's thinking. Again, if we actually needed to conserve time, all of you would have a point. We did not need to, so therefore you don't have dick.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-12-2010, 06:51 PM
it was a dumb timeout. the game circumstances were in our favor. calling the TO gave those a little nudge in the opposite direction. there was absolutely no need to call it at that point in the ballgame.

i don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Flasteel
09-12-2010, 06:55 PM
it was a dumb timeout. the game circumstances were in our favor. calling the TO gave those a little nudge in the opposite direction. there was absolutely no need to call it at that point in the ballgame.

i don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Finally...someone who actually can grasp the situation. Thank you Eddie! :tt2

steelernation77
09-12-2010, 06:57 PM
Just wanted to chime in and say I agree with Flasteel and that if he's going to take that TO (which I don't think he should've) then the play call has to be a run.

Steel Life
09-12-2010, 07:32 PM
FLA's point is well made but mis-guided...the questioning you're directing at Tomlin should indeed be focused on Arians, who wasted the opportunity he was given with a ****ty call (back-to-back mind you). The only way that you can blow that strategy is by stopping the clock with an incomplete pass, a sack (which happened) or turnover - everyone of which was brought into play by Arians' call. Don't forget - the ex-NFL head coach in the booth backed the TO & explained why you do it...granted he isn't the best coach in the world, but hey - it's the only bullet I've got.

Either way...a win is a win & I imagine people will question Mike Smith more on the defense he called at the end of the game than Tomlin calling a TO at the end of the 1st half of a game he won & most thought he'd lose.

Flasteel
09-12-2010, 08:46 PM
FLA's point is well made but mis-guided...the questioning you're directing at Tomlin should indeed be focused on Arians, who wasted the opportunity he was given with a ****ty call (back-to-back mind you). The only way that you can blow that strategy is by stopping the clock with an incomplete pass, a sack (which happened) or turnover - everyone of which was brought into play by Arians' call. Don't forget - the ex-NFL head coach in the booth backed the TO & explained why you do it...granted he isn't the best coach in the world, but hey - it's the only bullet I've got.

Either way...a win is a win & I imagine people will question Mike Smith more on the defense he called at the end of the game than Tomlin calling a TO at the end of the 1st half of a game he won & most thought he'd lose.

It's not misguided...it's nearly a statement of fact. We did not need to preserve time in that situation. I heard Mora say he agreed with it (although I couldn't hear his explaination), and all I can say is that if he felt we needed to conserve time, then he's wrong too.

3 time outs plus the 2-minute warning
2 minutes on the clock
20 yards to get in FG range or 35 yards to get into chip shot range

Who can honestly post that we were short on time in this situation? The assertion is ridiculous...yet, I guess it is still a matter of opinion.

So is scientology.

Now, let's consider the thinking that needs to take place on the next call. If you pass, a lot of bad things could potentially happen (and one of them did). If the pass isn't successful you're looking at 3rd and 5 at best. If you run the ball, a stuff at the line or a modest gain are very possible outcomes, and you're still left with a 3rd down conversion of anywhere between 5 and 1 yard.

We were 4 for 14 in this game on 3rd down conversions, and most of them came in the 1st quarter on 3rd and 1 conversions.

Failure to convert means they get the ball back with plenty of time on the clock to drive into FG range. Mind you that they only needed 17 seconds in the second quarter to do the same thing.

What you do is run the ball AFTER the 2 minute warning and force them to burn their time outs, or let the clock run. If you get the 3rd down conversion, you have 3 TOs in your pocket and plenty of time to get into FG range...if not the end zone. If you fail to convert, the Falcons have less time on the clock and fewer time outs.

The pass play was risky, but like Pap stated, at least BA was being aggressive. Maybe if Adams and Miller didn't both completely whiff on that D-lineman, Dixon could have made something happen...I dunno. I don't like the call at all, but at least there is a defense to Arians. I am curious however, to see his defense of not having any designed runs for Dixon.

I am truly amazed at the number of you guys that don't get this, or are dismissing it as inconsequential. Inevitably, it is a moot point because of Troy's pick, but it certainly merits some criticism.

grotonsteel
09-12-2010, 08:50 PM
FLA's point is well made but mis-guided...the questioning you're directing at Tomlin should indeed be focused on Arians, who wasted the opportunity he was given with a ****ty call (back-to-back mind you). The only way that you can blow that strategy is by stopping the clock with an incomplete pass, a sack (which happened) or turnover - everyone of which was brought into play by Arians' call. Don't forget - the ex-NFL head coach in the booth backed the TO & explained why you do it...granted he isn't the best coach in the world, but hey - it's the only bullet I've got.

Either way...a win is a win & I imagine people will question Mike Smith more on the defense he called at the end of the game than Tomlin calling a TO at the end of the 1st half of a game he won & most thought he'd lose.

It's not misguided...it's nearly a statement of fact. We did not need to preserve time in that situation. I heard Mora say he agreed with it (although I couldn't hear his explaination), and all I can say is that if he felt we needed to conserve time, then he's wrong too.

3 time outs plus the 2-minute warning
2 minutes on the clock
20 yards to get in FG range or 35 yards to get into chip shot range

Who can honestly post that we were short on time in this situation? The assertion is ridiculous...yet, I guess it is still a matter of opinion. So is scientology.

Now, let's consider the thinking that needs to take place on the next call. If you pass, a lot of bad things could potentially happen (and one of them did). If the pass isn't successful you're looking at 3rd and 5 at best. If you run the ball, a stuff at the line or a modest gain are very possible outcomes, and you're still left with a 3rd down conversion of anywhere between 5 and 1 yard.

We were 4 for 14 in this game on 3rd down conversions, and most of them came in the 1st quarter on 3rd and 1 conversions.

Failure to convert means they get the ball back with plenty of time on the clock to drive into FG range. Mind you that they only needed 17 seconds in the second quarter to do the same thing.

What you do is run the ball AFTER the 2 minute warning and force them to burn their time outs, or let the clock run. If you get the 3rd down conversion, you have 3 TOs in your pocket and plenty of time to get into FG range...if not the end zone. If you fail to convert, the Falcons have less time on the clock and fewer time outs.

The pass play was risky, but like Pap stated, at least BA was being aggressive. Maybe if Adams and Miller didn't both completely whiff on the D-lineman, Dixon could have made something happen...I dunno. I don't like the call at all, but at least there is a defense to Arians. I am curious however to see his defense of not having designed runs for Dixon.

I am truly amazed at the number of you guys that don't get this, or are dismissing it as inconsequential. Inevitably, it is a moot point because of Troy's pick, but it certainly merits some criticism.

Well said... :Agree

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-12-2010, 08:51 PM
FLA's point is well made but mis-guided...the questioning you're directing at Tomlin should indeed be focused on Arians, who wasted the opportunity he was given with a ****ty call (back-to-back mind you). The only way that you can blow that strategy is by stopping the clock with an incomplete pass, a sack (which happened) or turnover - everyone of which was brought into play by Arians' call. Don't forget - the ex-NFL head coach in the booth backed the TO & explained why you do it...granted he isn't the best coach in the world, but hey - it's the only bullet I've got.

Either way...a win is a win & I imagine people will question Mike Smith more on the defense he called at the end of the game than Tomlin calling a TO at the end of the 1st half of a game he won & most thought he'd lose.

It's not misguided...it's nearly a statement of fact. We did not need to preserve time in that situation. I heard Mora say he agreed with it (although I couldn't hear his explaination), and all I can say is that if he felt we needed to conserve time, then he's wrong too.

3 time outs plus the 2-minute warning
2 minutes on the clock
20 yards to get in FG range or 35 yards to get into chip shot range

Who can honestly post that we were short on time in this situation? The assertion is ridiculous...yet, I guess it is still a matter of opinion. So is scientology.

Now, let's consider the thinking that needs to take place on the next call. If you pass, a lot of bad things could potentially happen (and one of them did). If the pass isn't successful you're looking at 3rd and 5 at best. If you run the ball, a stuff at the line or a modest gain are very possible outcomes, and you're still left with a 3rd down conversion of anywhere between 5 and 1 yard.

We were 4 for 14 in this game on 3rd down conversions, and most of them came in the 1st quarter on 3rd and 1 conversions.

Failure to convert means they get the ball back with plenty of time on the clock to drive into FG range. Mind you that they only needed 17 seconds in the second quarter to do the same thing.

What you do is run the ball AFTER the 2 minute warning and force them to burn their time outs, or let the clock run. If you get the 3rd down conversion, you have 3 TOs in your pocket and plenty of time to get into FG range...if not the end zone. If you fail to convert, the Falcons have less time on the clock and fewer time outs.

The pass play was risky, but like Pap stated, at least BA was being aggressive. Maybe if Adams and Miller didn't both completely whiff on the D-lineman, Dixon could have made something happen...I dunno. I don't like the call at all, but at least there is a defense to Arians. I am curious however to see his defense of not having designed runs for Dixon.

I am truly amazed at the number of you guys that don't get this, or are dismissing it as inconsequential. Inevitably, it is a moot point because of Troy's pick, but it certainly merits some criticism.

That is resented greatly.

Signed,

Tom Cruise and John Travolta

JTP53609
09-12-2010, 09:05 PM
The time out called at the end of the first half wound up giving Atlanta enough time to get the FG and his TO with 2:05 left in the game was absolutely mind-numbing. You HAVE to consider the ramifications of not making a 1st down and we would have had plenty of time on the clock to manuver into FG range. Troy and Mendenhall saved him today. I did like the balance on offense, but BA's decision to not call a single designed run for Dixon really left me scratching my head.

I thought the coaches really made some bad decisions today. Overall there were a lot more things to like than dislike, but it was still unnerving to see those calls.

I'll take the win any way we can get it however. :tt2


we won and I am happy, BUT THANK YOU, I agree 100% and was screaming when he did that, why on earth would you call a timeout instead of just letting the clock run down to the two minute warning, instead he takes it and we get a third and long after the 2 minute warning.
I hate to be that guy to question calls, but that was an easy thing to question, I wont question play calls like alot of people do, but to misuse the clock like that is annoying

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-12-2010, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the excellent discussion ^^ !

It seems to me the TO would be a good call if it was likely we would need a lot of time to get within field goal range. Alternatively, if it wasn't likely we would need a lot of time to get in FG range, it would be good to let the clock run down instead (i.e., good to not take the time out).

From what I've read in the posts above, based on field position, etc., it doesn't seem like it would take a lot of clock time to get within Skippy range. But, if I'm on the opposite side of the issue from the coach's assessment, I won't push my case too hard!

Do you think I'm looking at this right?

papillon
09-12-2010, 09:25 PM
It was a smart play by the Steelers to try and preserve time for themselves to move the football. Worrying about leaving time on the clock for the opponent is playing to "not to lose" rather than "playing to win" which is what he did.

The problem really is the 2nd and 5 play call; that play should have been a run to Mendenhall. If he makes it, great you get the 2 minute warning with a first down. If he doesn't make it, you go to the 2 minute warning with a 3rd and 5 in a worst case scenario.

I'd rather the Steelers play to win when the opportunity arises with Dixon at quarterback. That was a down and distance that was manageable for him and the Steelers took their chance. I don't really have a problem with any of it (even the play for the most part). I love a coach that plays to win.

Pappy

Are you friggin' kidding me Pap? It's got nothing to do with "playing to lose". You just don't put your team in that position. Are you trying to say it's adopting a losing mentality? If so, that is an equally absurd position my friend. It's a contingency you have to consider. It doesn't necessarily impact your play-calling, but you have to evaluate the risk.

A large part of coaching is based on the concept of risk-reward. You DID NOT need to preserve time in that situation, so there is no reward to speak of. Giving the ball back with nearly 2 full minutes however, represents a significant risk. You have to consider that with your clock management.

Explain how we needed to preserve time for our offense and then your argument can begin to make sense. We didn't...pure and simple.


I agree with all of you about the play-call on 2nd and 5. We need to pick up the first down in that situation and we've got 2 downs to get 5 yards. For me, it's Mendenhall all day long (or of course a Dixon roll-out...off the play-fake). One could argue however, that a run is the more conservative route, or "playing not to lose". Playing to win means you're being aggressive in a situation and a pass there was definitely being aggressive. In that regard, the play-call is defensible, especially if it was based on the defensive look. It's not what I would have done, but I can't find too much fault with the approach either.

The Steelers were not picking up large chunks of yardage and Dixon isn't going to be proficient in the 2 minute drill. Taking an extra play in that instance is smart in my book and he can make that decision every time with Dixon at quarterback. If you have Ben in the game it's a different story.

Points there put the game away (Well, give the Steelers the lead with their defense playing well.) and the best way for them to get points was to run more plays. Dixon isn't getting 15-20 yards at a time, so Tomlin took the timeout to get a play in and then talk about it again at the 2 minute warning. The play selection I have some issue with, a running play would have been better.

It's a good timeout considering the way the offense was struggling for yards. Tomlin was playing to win the game right there; it didn't work out, it happens. We won in overtime instead.

Pappy

Djfan
09-12-2010, 11:45 PM
There were a couple of dumb coaching calls IMO. But, there were more good to great ones, so it worked out.

Against a top notch team it would have bitten us (I know they did at the end of the first half) hard.

We dodged a bullet.

MaxAMillion
09-13-2010, 12:09 AM
Anything that doesn't work is Tomlin's fault. That is pretty clear for some people. The team is playing with a back up QB and without both starting Tackles. The Steelers are also missing their top WR from last year. There is not another team in the league that could do better with what the Steelers have to work with at this point. Timeouts are not the issue. A lack of talent on offense is the problem.

I am amazed that they one this game to be honest. I expect Tennessee to handle the Steelers next week (and of course it will be all Tomlin's fault when they lose).

Doogie36
09-13-2010, 05:52 AM
I for one LOVED the timeout but not only that....I absolutely loved that they didnt run the football! Timeout with 2:05 means one thing!!!! RUN..........if they went to the 2 minute warning and ran the football you are looking at the clock being down to 1:20 left after 1 run and you would still be forced to call a timeout to talk about the key 3rd down play if needed. The team wasnt in FG range just yet and coming out throwing when everyone thought run was a gutsy call! What happened next is the only thing everyone is upset about!!!! If the steelers get a big play we give 2 craps less about this Timeout!!!!! I for one LOVED IT and the announcers seemed to like it as well!!!!!

Also Mike Tomlin is one heck of a coach!!!!!! Did you seem him get into the game on the 3rd and shorts??? Giveing REDMAN mad love when he converted those key 3rd down plays!!!!! He's a coach who understands the LITTLE THINGS and he's out there IN THE GAME and letting his guys know that those are the things that win football games. Listen to his post game interview!!!!!!! Giving the punter props for a punt late in the game to drive the Falcons to the 20..........This is a coach who understands and appreciates the LITTLE THINGS that win football games. Hey at least he didnt pull a hamstring calling for a timeout like the Falcons coach!!!!!! He also got raves for the way he called for a timeout to ice their kicker!!!! LOL Mike Tomlin might not be the best X's and O's coach in this league but I'm sure glad to have him and I love the excitement he brings to this team and I love how he motivates even me when I hear him speak!!!!!!!!!

Let's not ride the emotional rollercoaster!!! LOL

GOOO STEELERS!

ANPSTEEL
09-13-2010, 11:35 AM
while watching the game- I couldn't hear what the announcers were saying... I assumed that they were taking the time out to make sure everyone was on the same page.

Young QB, WR, RB- critical couple downs.

I couldn't really think of any other reason they would have called a time out there- given the circumstances.

ikestops85
09-13-2010, 12:12 PM
FLA's point is well made but mis-guided...the questioning you're directing at Tomlin should indeed be focused on Arians, who wasted the opportunity he was given with a ****ty call (back-to-back mind you). The only way that you can blow that strategy is by stopping the clock with an incomplete pass, a sack (which happened) or turnover - everyone of which was brought into play by Arians' call. Don't forget - the ex-NFL head coach in the booth backed the TO & explained why you do it...granted he isn't the best coach in the world, but hey - it's the only bullet I've got.

Either way...a win is a win & I imagine people will question Mike Smith more on the defense he called at the end of the game than Tomlin calling a TO at the end of the 1st half of a game he won & most thought he'd lose.

It's not misguided...it's nearly a statement of fact. We did not need to preserve time in that situation. I heard Mora say he agreed with it (although I couldn't hear his explaination), and all I can say is that if he felt we needed to conserve time, then he's wrong too.

3 time outs plus the 2-minute warning
2 minutes on the clock
20 yards to get in FG range or 35 yards to get into chip shot range

Who can honestly post that we were short on time in this situation? The assertion is ridiculous...yet, I guess it is still a matter of opinion.

So is scientology.

Now, let's consider the thinking that needs to take place on the next call. If you pass, a lot of bad things could potentially happen (and one of them did). If the pass isn't successful you're looking at 3rd and 5 at best. If you run the ball, a stuff at the line or a modest gain are very possible outcomes, and you're still left with a 3rd down conversion of anywhere between 5 and 1 yard.

We were 4 for 14 in this game on 3rd down conversions, and most of them came in the 1st quarter on 3rd and 1 conversions.

Failure to convert means they get the ball back with plenty of time on the clock to drive into FG range. Mind you that they only needed 17 seconds in the second quarter to do the same thing.

What you do is run the ball AFTER the 2 minute warning and force them to burn their time outs, or let the clock run. If you get the 3rd down conversion, you have 3 TOs in your pocket and plenty of time to get into FG range...if not the end zone. If you fail to convert, the Falcons have less time on the clock and fewer time outs.

The pass play was risky, but like Pap stated, at least BA was being aggressive. Maybe if Adams and Miller didn't both completely whiff on that D-lineman, Dixon could have made something happen...I dunno. I don't like the call at all, but at least there is a defense to Arians. I am curious however, to see his defense of not having any designed runs for Dixon.

I am truly amazed at the number of you guys that don't get this, or are dismissing it as inconsequential. Inevitably, it is a moot point because of Troy's pick, but it certainly merits some criticism.

I didn't think they needed to call it in that situation so

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10446/cookie.jpg

Jigawatts
09-13-2010, 12:22 PM
1) I could be wrong, but I thought that it's pretty much a standard to stop the clock before
the two minute warning.

2) Bad play call. I was cool with the timeout until they tried to run a passing play.

3) Would Tomlin have called a timeout with Roethlisberger under center? Totally
different situation with an inexperienced QB.

RuthlessBurgher
09-13-2010, 02:00 PM
When it happened, I mentioned to my father that I would have just let those 5 seconds come off the clock, which would stop at the 2 minute warning, and then I'd have one more timeout in my pocket in case we needed it in the last 2 minutes (since you never know what might happen). So I guess I agree with Fla here for the most part, but I didn't think it would be a controversy on here worthy of 30-something posts about it.

ikestops85
09-13-2010, 04:41 PM
When it happened, I mentioned to my father that I would have just let those 5 seconds come off the clock, which would stop at the 2 minute warning, and then I'd have one more timeout in my pocket in case we needed it in the last 2 minutes (since you never know what might happen). So I guess I agree with Fla here for the most part, but I didn't think it would be a controversy on here worthy of 30-something posts about it.

Look, it doesn't take us long to get in mid-season form to b!tch and moan. In fact I think they could shorten our pre-season 2 games and we would still be in prime B&M shape to start the season.

Now, if you don't like our B!tching and Moaning then

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/1-14-05/pansy.jpg


:moon :lol: :lol:

NorthCoast
09-13-2010, 10:41 PM
Have to side with Fla on this one. I would have let the clock roll. Time was not urgent at that point and 2 mins. should be plenty enough to score a FG from where they were. No sense in giving the opponent any added seconds for a hail mary or fluke play. AND, Tomlin DOES have a shaky history regarding clock management....almost like he thinks things through too much.