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stlrz d
09-12-2010, 04:41 PM
by that stupid, stupid rule. The same one I called Goodell about when it cost Hines a TD against the Browns.

When are they going to change that ridiculous fscking rule???

Snatch98
09-12-2010, 05:01 PM
by that stupid, stupid rule. The same one I called Goodell about when it cost Hines a TD against the Browns.

When are they going to change that ridiculous fscking rule???

I didn't see it but have read about it plenty since it occurred. It is a absolutely ridiculous rule and the Lions were robbed.

DukieBoy
09-12-2010, 05:11 PM
Did not see the play.

focosteeler
09-12-2010, 05:23 PM
Did not see the play.

if you go to the gamecenter on nfl.com its on the highlights....its garbage he clearly had control and they lost the game because of it


heres the link

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201009120 ... #tab:watch (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091207/2010/REG1/lions@bears#tab:watch)

proudpittsburgher
09-12-2010, 05:26 PM
garbage call. I am still not sure he wasn't just letting go of the ball after he thought it was a TD. For those who didnt see it. . . two feet down, check. butt down, check . . . side hits the ground . . . check. ball still in hand, check. ball gets let go when he sets his hand on the ground . . . incomplete pass. What garbage. Oh yea, and Cutler blows.

DukieBoy
09-12-2010, 05:33 PM
Did not see the play.

if you go to the gamecenter on nfl.com its on the highlights....its garbage he clearly had control and they lost the game because of it


heres the link

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201009120 ... #tab:watch (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091207/2010/REG1/lions@bears#tab:watch)


Couldn't get that video up. Either they pulled it or I messed up. Will try again later. Thanks for the link.

D Rock
09-12-2010, 05:43 PM
wow. I just watched it, and that is the most absurd use of that rule I've ever seen.

He is holding the ball in one hand, while taking multiple steps and then falling to the ground.

After having what would be ruled as a touchdown in multiple instances...2 feet down...butt down....knees down...you name it, he had it down...and then he is ruled as not having possession.


What it crazy is that if he had just let go of the ball and started celebrating rather than having the ball come out when his hand came down, it probably would have been a touchdown.

jj28west
09-12-2010, 05:48 PM
This for some reason reminded me of the no interception call on Troy in the AFC Champ game against Indy.

stlrz d
09-12-2010, 06:57 PM
This for some reason reminded me of the no interception call on Troy in the AFC Champ game against Indy.

That's what started it all.

BURGH86STEEL
09-12-2010, 07:46 PM
by that stupid, stupid rule. The same one I called Goodell about when it cost Hines a TD against the Browns.

When are they going to change that ridiculous fscking rule???

I agree it was a bad call. According to the rule, it was the right call. I don't know if there is anything that can be done to correct the rule. Where should they draw the line?

chiken
09-12-2010, 08:19 PM
According to the rule - they made the right Call... you have to have the ball all the way through the fall. As Steeler fans we should have no love for Calvin Johnson because heavens knows we have been on the other side of that one more than a few times.

skyhawk
09-12-2010, 08:27 PM
Garbage.

Player caught the ball. Down.

So why do they call it a TD when a player breaks the plane of the goalline and then fumbles?

JTP53609
09-12-2010, 09:10 PM
im pulling for the lions, i feel bad for them, I hope they do well this year, they should of won that game

MCHammer
09-13-2010, 09:10 AM
It's stuff like this that robs the game of fun. That was a catch and the NFL robbed the Detroit Lions of a game plain and simple.

And while I'm bitching about the NFL rules, can we please do away with the incredibly lame icing of the kicker routine?

Slapstick
09-13-2010, 10:13 AM
It was NOT the right call...

The rule is that the receiver has to maintain control through completion of the catch...Johnson had already completed the catch and was in the act of getting up when he let go of the ball...

On Football Night in America, they showed the Lance Moore 2pt conversion where he stuck the ball into the end zone while rolling on the ground and the Colts defender knocked it out of his grasp by kicking it...that conversion counted in the SB...

Just like last year when Limas caught the ball in the end zone vs. Cincy and it came out when he hit the ground (no TD) the same week as Johnny Knox catching the ball in the end zone and having it knocked out of his hands by a defender (TD counted)...

There is no provision in the rule for defenders knocking the ball out...

proudpittsburgher
09-13-2010, 10:21 AM
Either way, can the Bears actually feel good about what happened yesterday outside of the win?

1. Had to come from behind after trailing all game against the Lions.
2. Did this while playing at home.
3. Almost lost-from-ahead to a lollypop-armed backup quarterback.
4. Recovered a fumble at the 1 yard line and were stuffed on four-straight plays.
5. And the realization sets in that Jay Cutler is as over-rated as it gets. Gives more than he gets, and always will. (love how he pulls his helmet off and tries to look bad-ass after the TD pass, which the reciever had to make a great play on after he lost a fumble and threw a pick, which is par for the course with him)

Ghost
09-13-2010, 10:31 AM
NFL Rulebook:

A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds. To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet completely on the ground inbounds or any other part of his body, other than his hands, on the ground inbounds. If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession.

Ref's explanation:

"He has got to maintain possession of the ball throughout the entire process of the catch," said referee Gene Steratore, who made the Johnson call. "We don't play with the two feet or one knee or anything of that scenario. We're talking now about the process of the catch. He's catching the football, as he goes to the ground, he must maintain possession of the ball throughout the entire process. So as he continues to fall, if he fell with two feet and his elbow hit the ground and came out, it would be incomplete."

proudpittsburgher
09-13-2010, 10:39 AM
the word simultanious is really important here. it was th efinal act in a process of things happening. He got both feet down, then his butt, then knee, then side and then, and only then, did it come out. They go around changing rules which do not need to be implemented 9like th eplay being blown dead after a helmet comes off, but a lot of teams have suffered the wrath of this ruling.

Slapstick
09-13-2010, 10:40 AM
Again, the catch was completed and Johnson was getting up to celebrate (rightfully) his TD catch...

What's next? It's no longer a catch when the player hands the ball back to the ref?

feltdizz
09-13-2010, 12:58 PM
Again, the catch was completed and Johnson was getting up to celebrate (rightfully) his TD catch...

What's next? It's no longer a catch when the player hands the ball back to the ref?

I watched the replay and I think it was the right call. The rule may need to be changed but it wasn't like Calvin stopped his momentum and then dropped the ball to celebrate.

He caught it, rolled and the ball came out when it hit the ground.

Until the rule is changed hold onto the ball...

cruzer8
09-13-2010, 03:22 PM
He lost it as he was standing up.

Stupid call and stupid rule.

Slapstick
09-13-2010, 04:07 PM
I watched the replay and I think it was the right call. The rule may need to be changed but it wasn't like Calvin stopped his momentum and then dropped the ball to celebrate.

He caught it, rolled and the ball came out when it hit the ground.

Until the rule is changed hold onto the ball...

It was a bad call even by the standards of the rule, as previously referenced by mentioning the prominent SB play by Lance Moore...

ikestops85
09-13-2010, 04:10 PM
I remember sitting through challenges when a receiver goes up to catch the ball, gets 2 feet down in the endzone, and then gets leveled by a DB who knocks the ball loose.

The replay was trying to determine whether his 2 feet came down before the ball came loose. If they did it was ruled a TD because the play was officially over. When did this rule change and furthermore why did it change?

Northern_Blitz
09-13-2010, 04:20 PM
Again, the catch was completed and Johnson was getting up to celebrate (rightfully) his TD catch...

What's next? It's no longer a catch when the player hands the ball back to the ref?

I have Johnson on my fantasy team, and I don't think this was a bad call (though it might cost me my game).

I disagree with this interpreation. He lands partially on the ball. Looks to me like the ball comes out when it hits the ground, this causes it to come loose near his thumb and the pressure from his fingers pushes the ball out.

Receivers need to keep 2 hands on the ball more.


This for some reason reminded me of the no interception call on Troy in the AFC Champ game against Indy.

This is nowhere the Troy call in Indy. On that play, Troy had the pick, went to ground, rolled around, then when he was getting back (almost all the way up) he knocked the ball out of his own hands. That call was terrible, it was clearly a pick then a fumble. Thank God it didn't cost us the game.

@ ikestops85: I think this is at least the second season with the rule (maybe the 3rd). I think it was changed because TDs like the ones you are describing are total BS. If the DB smacks the WR hard enough to dislodge the ball it shouldn't be a catch IMO. Gives the D a fighting chance.

ikestops85
09-13-2010, 04:32 PM
@ ikestops85: I think this is at least the second season with the rule (maybe the 3rd). I think it was changed because TDs like the ones you are describing are total BS. If the DB smacks the WR hard enough to dislodge the ball it shouldn't be a catch IMO. Gives the D a fighting chance.

Isn't that the same as the RB reaching out and briefly extending the ball over the goal line and then having it knocked loose? That is still ruled a TD because the play is over as soon as the ball crosses the goal line.

I understand the concept of what they are trying to call but to me it makes it too subjective on the referees part. I think Mike P. even said that if the call went the other way he couldn't argue with it. If that is the case then it is a bad rule. JMHO

Northern_Blitz
09-13-2010, 05:22 PM
@ ikestops85: I think this is at least the second season with the rule (maybe the 3rd). I think it was changed because TDs like the ones you are describing are total BS. If the DB smacks the WR hard enough to dislodge the ball it shouldn't be a catch IMO. Gives the D a fighting chance.

Isn't that the same as the RB reaching out and briefly extending the ball over the goal line and then having it knocked loose? That is still ruled a TD because the play is over as soon as the ball crosses the goal line.

I understand the concept of what they are trying to call but to me it makes it too subjective on the referees part. I think Mike P. even said that if the call went the other way he couldn't argue with it. If that is the case then it is a bad rule. JMHO

I think it's different than a RB (or a WR running into the end zone) because he had posession outside of the plane too. The D alread had a chance to tackle that guy. I think that the D deserves a shot at a WR making a catch past the goal line too. You should need to have posession for more than a millisecond IMO.

feltdizz
09-13-2010, 05:47 PM
stupid rule but a good call.

I think next time Calvin Johnson will use both hands and roll on the ground instead of holding the ball like a loaf of bread and losing it.
I could see if he stopped rolling and then lost it as he was getting up but it looked like it was all one motion. and before he got up he lost it.

DukieBoy
09-13-2010, 07:12 PM
by that stupid, stupid rule. The same one I called Goodell about when it cost Hines a TD against the Browns.

When are they going to change that ridiculous fscking rule???

I agree it was a bad call. According to the rule, it was the right call. I don't know if there is anything that can be done to correct the rule. Where should they draw the line?
Not to trash anybody, but that rule sounds like it was written by the NFL's corporate lawyers. It has no football sensibility.

stlrz d
09-13-2010, 11:22 PM
This is nowhere the Troy call in Indy. On that play, Troy had the pick, went to ground, rolled around, then when he was getting back (almost all the way up) he knocked the ball out of his own hands. That call was terrible, it was clearly a pick then a fumble. Thank God it didn't cost us the game.

Actually it's pretty similar. CJ is clearly attempting to stand up and the ball slips out of his hand. It was a catch and a TD...play over. Or at least it should have been.

Northern_Blitz
09-14-2010, 09:21 AM
[quote="Northern_Blitz":3flgh8ku]

This is nowhere the Troy call in Indy. On that play, Troy had the pick, went to ground, rolled around, then when he was getting back (almost all the way up) he knocked the ball out of his own hands. That call was terrible, it was clearly a pick then a fumble. Thank God it didn't cost us the game.

Actually it's pretty similar. CJ is clearly attempting to stand up and the ball slips out of his hand. It was a catch and a TD...play over. Or at least it should have been.[/quote:3flgh8ku]

That's not what I see when I look at the video. I see the ball hit the ground as his body is going down. That causes the ball to come out. Maybe it's right as he's starting to get up, but the ball comes out because it hits the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSYDYI4F4xs

I can't find a video of Troy's pic, but IIRC he rolled on the ground three times, and knocked the ball out of his hands with his knee while he was getting up (already up). This was then the rule was that you had to make "a football move" before you had posession (so I'm not sure we can compare the two calls). Unfortunately, no one could define exactly what a "football move" was. That rule was up to the refs judgement.

The current rule is objective. There is a clear definition of what a catch is now, and it doesn't depend on a judgement call by the refs.

The new rule might not be perfect, but it is 100 times better than the old one. What constitues a catch is now objective and the same everywhere on the field (the criteria doesn't chagne at the sidelines or in the end zone).

cruzer8
09-14-2010, 11:48 AM
Michael Wilbon: I know the rule was applied correctly, so get rid of the rule.

:Clap

On an ESPN poll over 85% of people said this rule is ridiculous and that it should be changed. Anyone looking at that play, if they're being honest, knows that Megatron caught that ball and had posession. This rule has to go.

feltdizz
09-14-2010, 12:00 PM
Michael Wilbon: I know the rule was applied correctly, so get rid of the rule.

:Clap

On an ESPN poll over 85% of people said this rule is ridiculous and that it should be changed. Anyone looking at that play, if they're being honest, knows that Megatron caught that ball and had posession. This rule has to go.

I honestly don't think he caught and controlled the ball.

if he got up with it and it fell out of his hands then sure... but it looked like the ground knocked it out of his hand.

gotta hold onto it or stop rolling before getting up... use 2 hands and it won't get called an incompletion. I have no idea why he one handed it after catching it anyway.

cruzer8
09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
Michael Wilbon: I know the rule was applied correctly, so get rid of the rule.

:Clap

On an ESPN poll over 85% of people said this rule is ridiculous and that it should be changed. Anyone looking at that play, if they're being honest, knows that Megatron caught that ball and had posession. This rule has to go.

I honestly don't think he caught and controlled the ball.

if he got up with it and it fell out of his hands then sure... but it looked like the ground knocked it out of his hand.

gotta hold onto it or stop rolling before getting up... use 2 hands and it won't get called an incompletion. I have no idea why he one handed it after catching it anyway.

You need to look again. He catches it, takes two steps, falls down with his hip on the ground, rolls over to stand up and the ball comes out. The ball does *not* move when he has it in his hands.

Northern_Blitz
09-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Michael Wilbon: I know the rule was applied correctly, so get rid of the rule.

:Clap

On an ESPN poll over 85% of people said this rule is ridiculous and that it should be changed. Anyone looking at that play, if they're being honest, knows that Megatron caught that ball and had posession. This rule has to go.

I honestly don't think he caught and controlled the ball.

if he got up with it and it fell out of his hands then sure... but it looked like the ground knocked it out of his hand.

gotta hold onto it or stop rolling before getting up... use 2 hands and it won't get called an incompletion. I have no idea why he one handed it after catching it anyway.

You need to look again. He catches it, takes two steps, falls down with his hip on the ground, rolls over to stand up and the ball comes out. The ball does *not* move when he has it in his hands.

The ball comes out when it hits the ground.

For all the people who want the rule to change, what should it be changed to?

cruzer8
09-14-2010, 12:26 PM
Michael Wilbon: I know the rule was applied correctly, so get rid of the rule.

:Clap

On an ESPN poll over 85% of people said this rule is ridiculous and that it should be changed. Anyone looking at that play, if they're being honest, knows that Megatron caught that ball and had posession. This rule has to go.

I honestly don't think he caught and controlled the ball.

if he got up with it and it fell out of his hands then sure... but it looked like the ground knocked it out of his hand.

gotta hold onto it or stop rolling before getting up... use 2 hands and it won't get called an incompletion. I have no idea why he one handed it after catching it anyway.

You need to look again. He catches it, takes two steps, falls down with his hip on the ground, rolls over to stand up and the ball comes out. The ball does *not* move when he has it in his hands.

The ball comes out when it hits the ground.

For all the people who want the rule to change, what should it be changed to?

The ball comes out when he uses it as a brace to stand up.

It should go back to the way it used to be. This idiotic rule cost Louis Murphy of the Raiders a TD and it also cost Hines Ward a TD against the Browns. It's a stupid, stupid rule. There are too many damn rules in the NFL trying to legislate every little thing. If it looks like a catch then it's a damn catch. Period.

feltdizz
09-14-2010, 12:57 PM
the ball does come out as he braces to stand up but he neer stopped moving within that time frame.

You have to control the ball until you stop moving... he never stopped so it was one continuous play.

Good call.

In the future just catch it and hold onto it... if you can't do that they can rule it an incompletion

Slapstick
09-14-2010, 01:13 PM
the ball does come out as he braces to stand up but he neer stopped moving within that time frame.

You have to control the ball until you stop moving... he never stopped so it was one continuous play.

Good call.

In the future just catch it and hold onto it... if you can't do that they can rule it an incompletion

Then why, oh why, was Lance Moore awarded with a two point conversion try? Why was Johnny Knox given a TD?

If the rule can't be enforced consistently, then it is a bad rule and therefore the officials are incapable of making a good call...

Northern_Blitz
09-14-2010, 02:32 PM
It should go back to the way it used to be. This idiotic rule cost Louis Murphy of the Raiders a TD and it also cost Hines Ward a TD against the Browns. It's a stupid, stupid rule. There are too many damn rules in the NFL trying to legislate every little thing. If it looks like a catch then it's a damn catch. Period.

Do you mean the football move rule? I think that was the worst rule of all time. Even the league couldn't conclusively define what a "football move" was.

If you mean the old rule that the play ends after you have posession for a nanosecond with 2 feet (/knee/hip) down if you're in the ends zone or on the sideline, I think that rule has more problems than the current rule. The reason they got rid of that rule is that too many guys were losing posession while getting hit or falling down but still got the catch/TD. What was even worse about it was that the criteria for a catch was different in end zone/side line than it was on the rest of the field. It's also up to the refs discression to decide the difference between the ball touching both the WRs hands and him having control. Now that we have replay, all the rules have to be lawyered up like this because refs have to sift through the play frame by frame to see what happened.

cruzer8
09-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Horrible call and horrible rule. It's going to change after this season. Just watch.

JTP53609
09-15-2010, 09:23 AM
after his third step and with control of the ball he should of just thrown the ball in the crowd or the ref than that way it would of been a touchdown

Slapstick
09-15-2010, 10:57 AM
after his third step and with control of the ball he should of just thrown the ball in the crowd or the ref than that way it would of been a touchdown

Sadly, you're right...

Northern_Blitz
09-15-2010, 11:30 AM
after his third step and with control of the ball he should of just thrown the ball in the crowd or the ref than that way it would of been a touchdown

This is not true. Contact was made as he was catching the ball. He has to maintain posession while he goes to ground. Throwing the ball away is not maintaining posession, nor would it change the fact that contact was being made while he was catching the ball.

JTP53609
09-15-2010, 11:43 AM
after his third step and with control of the ball he should of just thrown the ball in the crowd or the ref than that way it would of been a touchdown

This is not true. Contact was made as he was catching the ball. He has to maintain posession while he goes to ground. Throwing the ball away is not maintaining posession, nor would it change the fact that contact was being made while he was catching the ball.

I get the rule, and I like how there is no gray area invovled with it, but it is weird to think that was not a touchdown but a running back just has to jump over the pile and cross the ball past the goal line even with it being knocked out of his hand, yet that is a touchdown...

Northern_Blitz
09-15-2010, 02:45 PM
after his third step and with control of the ball he should of just thrown the ball in the crowd or the ref than that way it would of been a touchdown

This is not true. Contact was made as he was catching the ball. He has to maintain posession while he goes to ground. Throwing the ball away is not maintaining posession, nor would it change the fact that contact was being made while he was catching the ball.

I get the rule, and I like how there is no gray area invovled with it, but it is weird to think that was not a touchdown but a running back just has to jump over the pile and cross the ball past the goal line even with it being knocked out of his hand, yet that is a touchdown...

I agree that those rushing TDs suck too. But, I do see that it's a bit different because the runner has posession before he crosses the plane.

Slapstick
09-15-2010, 03:36 PM
There is no provision in the rule for contact by an opposing player...

That is another part of the reason that it is a bad rule and many bad calls result...