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SteelCrazy
09-07-2010, 04:58 PM
http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/2010/9/7 ... ns-redzone (http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/2010/9/7/1675064/issac-redman-short-yardage-goal-line-touchdown-rashard-mendenhall-steelers-touchdowns-redzone)


Steelers Head Coach Mike Tomlin announced recently that backup bruiser Issac Redman would open the season as the team’s short-yardage specialist.

Pittsburgh was one of the worst short-yardage teams last year, failing to convert in critical situations and all too often marching down the field, only to sputter in the red zone and settle for a field goal.

My take on the Steelers’ short-yardage impotence has long been that lead back Rashard Mendenhall was not the problem. Although he occasionally dances too much at the hole and relies too heavily on his spin move, Mendenhall proved decisive enough in situations that called for it last season.

Instead, the issue was lack of adequate lanes in obvious running situations — and occasionally dubious play-calling.

Even still, if “Redzone” Redman proves even just as effective as Mendenhall in short-yardage situations, this could be a good move, simply in the spirit of keeping Mendenhall, who could be more of the offense’s bread and butter, fresh and rested.

aggiebones
09-07-2010, 05:12 PM
One season late. We'd be in the playoffs had they employed this strategy last season. IMO
Blew too many short yardage situations and goalline situations trying to get fancy and not having anyone able to lean forward for a yard when its called for.
Now, I reserve the right to retract this if Redman starts bouncing into Essex when the games really start :)

SteelHoss
09-07-2010, 05:23 PM
NFL from the sidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com ... esday.html (http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2010/09/some-notes-from-tomlin-tuesday.html)
Lolley takes this a bit further...

Tuesday, September 07, 2010
Some notes from Tomlin Tuesday
Mike Tomlin said today that Isaac Redman will serve as the Steelers' short-yardage back. That's bad news for those of you who selected Mendenhall in your fantasy drafts.

On the plus side, Tomlin did say the Steelers will use Mendenhall as the primary third-down back - as they did in the second half of last season - so he could make up for a couple of the scores that Redman may syphon off.

© As expected, Antwaan Randle El will be the team's emergency QB this week against Atlanta and will get some practice snaps at quarterback.

Randle El is also the backup holder on PATs and field goals.

© Jeff Reed will handle kickoffs this week, but I expect that to be a week-to-week thing with him and Daniel Sepulveda.

© Tomlin would not commit to saying which rookie receiver, Emmanuel Sanders or Antonio Brown - or if both - will be active on game days.

He was also non-commital with rookie linebackers Jason Worilds, Stephenson Sylvester and Thaddeus Gibson.

He wants the kids to earn their spots - though I think both rookie wide receivers and two of the three linebackers will be active.
posted by Dale Lolley at 4:48 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

proudpittsburgher
09-07-2010, 07:30 PM
I was wondering what the RB situation would be. I now see this as Mendy as full time back, Redman in short yardage, and Moore in when it is third and long. So where does that leave Dwyer? Does he come in to spell Mendy, or does he rarely see the field? He doesn't really make sense in moore's role right now and redman is only going to be in in very specific short yardage situations, so he isn't spelling him.

Stewie
09-07-2010, 08:24 PM
Kind of a dumb thing to say. Hey D, let's all key on Redman!!!

Iron Shiek
09-07-2010, 08:29 PM
Well, he said it for fantasy purposes so people level set their expectations of course on Mendy.

Ha, honestly, I'm glad Redman is taking this role on, we need to keep Mendy fresh i think.

As for the Dwyer question, while I'd like to see him spell Mendy as well, I don't know if he's ready for that. This should be mostly Mendy's gig on normal running downs. With the expectations of someone drafted in his position, he should be able to handle that.

aggiebones
09-07-2010, 11:22 PM
Who said Redman wouldn't ALSO spell Mendi?

Both Moore and Redman will spell Mendi. Some of the spelling may occur on 3rd and long and short yardage, but both backs nkow the playbook.

How many RBs were active last year? 3
How many will be active this year? 3
Dwyer is inactive n most games.

Now with Ben out, maybe they activate Dwyer just in case since we'll be running more. But I doubt he gets more than 5 plays and 1 carry. Once Ben returns, I'd be surprised if he is active.

fordfixer
09-08-2010, 12:06 AM
Redman has chance to play key role
September 7th, 2010
http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the- ... ox+Blog%29 (http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2010/09/07/redman-has-chance-to-play-key-role/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+triblive%2Fblog%2FViewFromThe PressBox+%28View+from+the+Press+Box+Blog%29)

Red-zone Redman?

The Steelers intend to find out if Isaac Redman can live up to the moniker he got after scoring three times against the first-team defense during a goal-line drill in training camp last year.

Tomlin said Tuesday that Redman will get the first shot at the job of short-yardage back, a role the Steelers badly need someone to fill after the ground game shortcomings they experienced in 2009.

Redman led the Steelers in rushing touchdowns (two) and yards per carry (5.0) among the running backs in four preseason games.

Now it gets harder for Redman to bulldoze his way for those critical yards since the regular season is just a little step up from the preseason.

“We are going to give him the opportunity to see if he can excel,” Tomlin said.

Redman has done that the last two preseasons but his next NFL carry will be the first one, at least officially, for the former undrafted free agent.

The 6-foot, 230-pounder appears to have the power, balance and nose for the end zone required of short-yardage backs. And Redman received an endorsement for that job after the Steelers’ final preseason game last week.

“He had some great runs (during the preseason) and especially his runs after contact were really good,” left tackle Max Starks said. “I think he definitely earned some points from an offensive line standpoint running with power and efficiency.”

Rookie Jonathan Dwyer appears to be the odd man out for now at running back.

But Tomlin has made it clear that competition among young players will continue so it keeps them focused and makes them better collectively.

Among those that apparently will battle one another for spots on the active roster are rookie linebackers Jason Worilds, Thaddeus Gibson and Stevenson Sylvester and rookie wide receivers Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown.

“Competition is the truest motivator,” Tomlin said. “We’re going to need those guys to become and be better players over the long haul if we’re going to have the chance to be good.”

papillon
09-08-2010, 07:36 AM
If the Steelers insert Redman into the game and simply reverse pivot and hand him the ball they will fail miserably again in short yardage situations. You can't be predictable in the NFL; when defenses see Redman coming into the game they'll key him and without a lead blocker it will be futile again, IMO.

I'd see if Mendenhall can be a 3 down back. The ability to use any tool in the shed in short yardage is better than telling the defense here's our short yardage guy, stop him if you can.

Pappy

frankthetank1
09-08-2010, 07:45 AM
If the Steelers insert Redman into the game and simply reverse pivot and hand him the ball they will fail miserably again in short yardage situations. You can't be predictable in the NFL; when defenses see Redman coming into the game they'll key him and without a lead blocker it will be futile again, IMO.

I'd see if Mendenhall can be a 3 down back. The ability to use any tool in the shed in short yardage is better than telling the defense here's our short yardage guy, stop him if you can.

Pappy

you are right you cant be predictible in the nfl usually, but when the bus came into the game his last few seasons when the offense had the ball inside the 10 everyone knew who was going to get the ball. it didnt matter though because bettis was $$ in short yardage. i know that was an entirely different offensive line and it was bettis. just sayin it can be done but you need the right personel.

BURGH86STEEL
09-08-2010, 07:46 AM
One season late. We'd be in the playoffs had they employed this strategy last season. IMO
Blew too many short yardage situations and goalline situations trying to get fancy and not having anyone able to lean forward for a yard when its called for.
Now, I reserve the right to retract this if Redman starts bouncing into Essex when the games really start :)

I don't understand how it's one season late. Did you watch some of the blocking from the Oline and TE's in those situations last season? That's where most of the break downs occurred. Difficult for any RB to make yards when being hit before he gets a chance to get going.

If the Oline and TE's execute better, they will be fine.

Steelers>NFL
09-08-2010, 07:52 AM
[quote="papillon"]If the Steelers insert Redman into the game and simply reverse pivot and hand him the ball they will fail miserably again in short yardage situations. You can't be predictable in the NFL; when defenses see Redman coming into the game they'll key him and without a lead blocker it will be futile again, IMO.


The Arians way of calling plays. Sounds like we can already assume the outcomes!

Stewie
09-08-2010, 08:58 AM
The telegraph of the play was my original point; Dumb. What would be diabolical is insert Redman and play action to the vacated spot and insert Redman occasionally on first and ten, and either give him the ball or play action off of him.

The OL of today is not as dominating as the OLs that blocked for Bettis. There is no FB like Tim Lester or Dan Kreider. So saying "this is my short yardage back" is self-defeating in my view, unless...................you're lying, coach lying -fully exempt from sin in all faiths.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-08-2010, 10:05 AM
I think using Redman in those situations is an excellent move. You don't want your feature taking those hits especially in short yardage. The bigger value will be Redman as a closer if they use him in this role. That is a role that really wears on a RB through the season. Pulling Mendy when you want to run the clock with the lead will add production long into the offseason with a fresher Mendy.

Having the "Pony" with Mendy & Redman could be very productive. From an offensive standpoint, don't write it off if the "quick pop" to Redman isn't effective early. There is a purpose in running it even if it isn't successful. There is some keys to reads on defense and one is the FB. You might have heard the phrase "the FB will take you to the play". Something you learn from pee-wee. When the Steelers establish the possibilty of handing to the FB miss direction of the HB, it will open up other things in short yardage. A counter pitch to Mendy or playaction could be all designed of the defense's reaction to the fake "quick pop" to Redman. I would say watch for that.

Another thought would be the Steelers were working on a package for Dixon if or when he wasn't the starter. I think he could add another dimension to the Bronco package. Utilize his athleticism and put the college flavor in that package. Just showing it will make the DCs have to put some extra time each week in preparation for it. Also, add in the "quick pop" flavor to the FB Redman will have an impact.

An example of a play:
Playing the down and distance if the Steelers were in Bronco, more than likely it would be man across the board. Maybe only 2-3 DBs on the field. SO, Miller & Wallace are on the field instead of 2 TEs. Mendy, Redman, & Legursky(Bronco) in the backfield with Dixon at QB. TE right, WR split left, Legursky shuffle motion to TE (behind Miller). Same formation & motion for each play. Wallace on field to give match-up. Safety will be down in box and CB will have him all alone. Gives you an idea of the thought process behind the plays.

Play #1 (3rd & short).
Quick pop to Redman between Essex & Adams. Simple man-on-man blocking. Depending on alignment, could get a double team with Essex & Adams. From Pouncey out, Steelers should be +1 on LOS. This should be a win 9 out of 10 for the Steelers. But we have Essex. :shock:

Play #2 (3rd & short).
Just a simple Power to TE side. Lead power of right side to Mendy. Miller & Legursky there to seal corner with Redman lead.

Play #3 (3rd & 2-3)
You usually don't want to pitch the ball when it is 1 yard or less. But when it is a little longer or later in the game and you want to keep it on the ground, 1 & 2 can open up play 3. This will be a pitch sweep to TE side with onside G pulling. Again, Miller & Legursky seal with Redman & Essex leading. "Student body right". Alot of weight in motion to stop a 2 yard gain. Seal block on edge is the key.

Play #4. (3rd & short or 2-3).
After you showed 1,2, & 3 you open up the rest. Dixon opens right with Redman power lead right, Mendy counter step right with Dixon pitch weakside. You have all seen it before. Usually RB one on one with backside containing LB. If the LB holds contain, RB has to beat him to the sidline. If LB washes down line from influence of previous 3 plays, could be big gain. Wallace "crack back" on LB and Mendy on CB to pick up 1st down. Here's were having Koogs & a C like Pouncey could have impact on single play. With some good coaching & chemistry on OL, the OL could read and this play could be lead with a G or C pulling. Pouncey is athletic enough to pull from snap. Haven't had that since early days of Hartings. Dawson gave that flexibility throughout his career with the Steelers blocking assignments. The DL could shift gap towards formation and this would allow Pouncey or Kemo to pull depending on alignment. That flexibilty could be the difference between a successful 1st down run and a big play.

Play #5. (3rd & short or 2-3).
Use Dixon's athleticism. Weak side option or lead option. Meaning fake it to Redman (FB dive) and option outside most defender. Or option outsie most defender with Redman leading Mendy. I wouldn't think we see this until Ben returns and this will be exclusively for a Dixon package. Don't want to do this with 2 QBs.

Play #6. (3rd & short or 2-3).
This will be playaction off of play 2. After you show the runs to the power side, the CB on Wallace will have no S over the top. I will take that all day on a post route. Wallace runs the post to give Dixon the middle 3rd & right 3rd to work with. Two man pattern with Miller dragging right to left. Max protect with 8. Simple read for Dixon quickly. He will know if Miller will come open and if he could wait for him. He will also see if backside LB washes down he could run left. If not take the post. If post is covered, still take it as throw away.

Play #7. (3rd & short or 2-3).
This only works if you run play 5. Run play 5 as lead option. Redman & Starks take outside most guy in pass pro. Dixon comes down line as to run option then makes drop. Miller runs backside post, Mendy flat, and Wallace deep comeback. Dixon has no run option but his reads on the deep routes should come when his back foot hits.

ANPSTEEL
09-08-2010, 11:12 AM
...

Having the "Pony" with Mendy & Redman could be very productive. From an offensive standpoint, don't write it off if the "quick pop" to Redman isn't effective early. There is a purpose in running it even if it isn't successful. There is some keys to reads on defense and one is the FB. You might have heard the phrase "the FB will take you to the play". Something you learn from pee-wee. When the Steelers establish the possibilty of handing to the FB miss direction of the HB, it will open up other things in short yardage. A counter pitch to Mendy or playaction could be all designed of the defense's reaction to the fake "quick pop" to Redman. I would say watch for that. ...


I am really hoping for this-

regardless of who is at QB-

With Mendy and Redman in the same backfield you can take that "running" formation- on any occasion and motion either of the backs into the slot- making it a passing formation.

lets say for the sake of it- you have ward and miller on one side- wallace on the other. Mendy and Redman in the pro- motion Mendy out to the strong side - Redman remains the lone back.

With both Mendenhall and Redman capable of catching out of the backfield, running, or bliz pick up- that combination has great potential to create mismatches and- most importantly- eliminate how predictable they have been based upon sub package and formation.

papillon
09-08-2010, 11:22 AM
A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-08-2010, 11:55 AM
A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

I don't see why you wouldn't Pap. To your point exactly about "paying the big money". Why would you want to get your feature back hurt in garbage time when a team is loading 8 & 9 in the box every 3 & out to get the ball back? Same as any team pulling the starting QB when the game is in hand. No use of risking injury. If you have a capable RB who is that bruiser who can hold onto the ball in clean-up...I'm pulling the trigger every time when the game is in hand. I'm not worried about stats. I need my feature healthy.

feltdizz
09-08-2010, 12:14 PM
A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

I don't see why you wouldn't Pap. To your point exactly about "paying the big money". Why would you want to get your feature back hurt in garbage time when a team is loading 8 & 9 in the box every 3 & out to get the ball back? Same as any team pulling the starting QB when the game is in hand. No use of risking injury. If you have a capable RB who is that bruiser who can hold onto the ball in clean-up...I'm pulling the trigger every time when the game is in hand. I'm not worried about stats. I need my feature healthy.

Mend still spins too damn much on short yardage.

papillon
09-08-2010, 12:14 PM
A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

I don't see why you wouldn't Pap. To your point exactly about "paying the big money". Why would you want to get your feature back hurt in garbage time when a team is loading 8 & 9 in the box every 3 & out to get the ball back? Same as any team pulling the starting QB when the game is in hand. No use of risking injury. If you have a capable RB who is that bruiser who can hold onto the ball in clean-up...I'm pulling the trigger every time when the game is in hand. I'm not worried about stats. I need my feature healthy.

How many NFL games are in hand by the 4th quarter? Very few would be my guess, trying to define "in hand" could be difficult as well. I don't think the 4th quarter is garbage time (unless you're winning or losing by an extremely large margin). If you can close the game out, you close the game out with the personnel that give you the best chance to do that (Mendenhall over Redman). The Steelers couldn't close games out last year in the 4th quarter (offensively or defensively) if they could have done that one stinking time during their losing streak they would have been in the playoffs.

I'm not playing the second team when I'm trying to close out the game. That's just me, I'm not worried about whether Mendenhall has a 5 year career or a 12 year career, I'm trying to win Sunday's game first and foremost. This may be short sighted, but the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

Pappy

cruzer8
09-08-2010, 12:57 PM
People say they want the Steelers to impose their will in the running game. Then they say they don't want them to be predictable in the running game.

Which is it?

feltdizz
09-08-2010, 01:02 PM
People say they want the Steelers to impose their will in the running game. Then they say they don't want them to be predictable in the running game.

Which is it?

Both... they are 2 different things.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-08-2010, 01:09 PM
A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

I don't see why you wouldn't Pap. To your point exactly about "paying the big money". Why would you want to get your feature back hurt in garbage time when a team is loading 8 & 9 in the box every 3 & out to get the ball back? Same as any team pulling the starting QB when the game is in hand. No use of risking injury. If you have a capable RB who is that bruiser who can hold onto the ball in clean-up...I'm pulling the trigger every time when the game is in hand. I'm not worried about stats. I need my feature healthy.

How many NFL games are in hand by the 4th quarter? Very few would be my guess, trying to define "in hand" could be difficult as well. I don't think the 4th quarter is garbage time (unless you're winning or losing by an extremely large margin). If you can close the game out, you close the game out with the personnel that give you the best chance to do that (Mendenhall over Redman). The Steelers couldn't close games out last year in the 4th quarter (offensively or defensively) if they could have done that one stinking time during their losing streak they would have been in the playoffs.

I'm not playing the second team when I'm trying to close out the game. That's just me, I'm not worried about whether Mendenhall has a 5 year career or a 12 year career, I'm trying to win Sunday's game first and foremost. This may be short sighted, but the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

Pappy
Didn't say second team Pap. Redman would still play behind starting OL. Let me give you an example very familiar to all of us Steelers fans. Ravens build up a lead on the Steelers with McGahee & Rice seeing a majority of the carries. Come 4th quarter when the Steelers need the ball back...We see a heavy dose of McClain. They move the sticks and eat up the clock. That's the role I'm talking about. A two posession lead in the 4th usually gets the winning offense to gear down. That's the "garbage time" I'm talking about. Garbage time by no means takes away the importance. It is more of a reference to the strategic fall off, if you will, of lining up, running it three times, and punting.

RuthlessBurgher
09-08-2010, 01:48 PM
I think using Redman in those situations is an excellent move. You don't want your feature taking those hits especially in short yardage. The bigger value will be Redman as a closer if they use him in this role. That is a role that really wears on a RB through the season. Pulling Mendy when you want to run the clock with the lead will add production long into the offseason with a fresher Mendy.

Having the "Pony" with Mendy & Redman could be very productive. From an offensive standpoint, don't write it off if the "quick pop" to Redman isn't effective early. There is a purpose in running it even if it isn't successful. There is some keys to reads on defense and one is the FB. You might have heard the phrase "the FB will take you to the play". Something you learn from pee-wee. When the Steelers establish the possibilty of handing to the FB miss direction of the HB, it will open up other things in short yardage. A counter pitch to Mendy or playaction could be all designed of the defense's reaction to the fake "quick pop" to Redman. I would say watch for that.

Another thought would be the Steelers were working on a package for Dixon if or when he wasn't the starter. I think he could add another dimension to the Bronco package. Utilize his athleticism and put the college flavor in that package. Just showing it will make the DCs have to put some extra time each week in preparation for it. Also, add in the "quick pop" flavor to the FB Redman will have an impact.

An example of a play:
Playing the down and distance if the Steelers were in Bronco, more than likely it would be man across the board. Maybe only 2-3 DBs on the field. SO, Miller & Wallace are on the field instead of 2 TEs. Mendy, Redman, & Legursky(Bronco) in the backfield with Dixon at QB. TE right, WR split left, Legursky shuffle motion to TE (behind Miller). Same formation & motion for each play. Wallace on field to give match-up. Safety will be down in box and CB will have him all alone. Gives you an idea of the thought process behind the plays.

Play #1 (3rd & short).
Quick pop to Redman between Essex & Adams. Simple man-on-man blocking. Depending on alignment, could get a double team with Essex & Adams. From Pouncey out, Steelers should be +1 on LOS. This should be a win 9 out of 10 for the Steelers. But we have Essex. :shock:

Play #2 (3rd & short).
Just a simple Power to TE side. Lead power of right side to Mendy. Miller & Legursky there to seal corner with Redman lead.

Play #3 (3rd & 2-3)
You usually don't want to pitch the ball when it is 1 yard or less. But when it is a little longer or later in the game and you want to keep it on the ground, 1 & 2 can open up play 3. This will be a pitch sweep to TE side with onside G pulling. Again, Miller & Legursky seal with Redman & Essex leading. "Student body right". Alot of weight in motion to stop a 2 yard gain. Seal block on edge is the key.

Play #4. (3rd & short or 2-3).
After you showed 1,2, & 3 you open up the rest. Dixon opens right with Redman power lead right, Mendy counter step right with Dixon pitch weakside. You have all seen it before. Usually RB one on one with backside containing LB. If the LB holds contain, RB has to beat him to the sidline. If LB washes down line from influence of previous 3 plays, could be big gain. Wallace "crack back" on LB and Mendy on CB to pick up 1st down. Here's were having Koogs & a C like Pouncey could have impact on single play. With some good coaching & chemistry on OL, the OL could read and this play could be lead with a G or C pulling. Pouncey is athletic enough to pull from snap. Haven't had that since early days of Hartings. Dawson gave that flexibility throughout his career with the Steelers blocking assignments. The DL could shift gap towards formation and this would allow Pouncey or Kemo to pull depending on alignment. That flexibilty could be the difference between a successful 1st down run and a big play.

Play #5. (3rd & short or 2-3).
Use Dixon's athleticism. Weak side option or lead option. Meaning fake it to Redman (FB dive) and option outside most defender. Or option outsie most defender with Redman leading Mendy. I wouldn't think we see this until Ben returns and this will be exclusively for a Dixon package. Don't want to do this with 2 QBs.

Play #6. (3rd & short or 2-3).
This will be playaction off of play 2. After you show the runs to the power side, the CB on Wallace will have no S over the top. I will take that all day on a post route. Wallace runs the post to give Dixon the middle 3rd & right 3rd to work with. Two man pattern with Miller dragging right to left. Max protect with 8. Simple read for Dixon quickly. He will know if Miller will come open and if he could wait for him. He will also see if backside LB washes down he could run left. If not take the post. If post is covered, still take it as throw away.

Play #7. (3rd & short or 2-3).
This only works if you run play 5. Run play 5 as lead option. Redman & Starks take outside most guy in pass pro. Dixon comes down line as to run option then makes drop. Miller runs backside post, Mendy flat, and Wallace deep comeback. Dixon has no run option but his reads on the deep routes should come when his back foot hits.

JPN just tripled the size of Arians' short yardage playbook. :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
09-08-2010, 01:51 PM
...

Having the "Pony" with Mendy & Redman could be very productive. From an offensive standpoint, don't write it off if the "quick pop" to Redman isn't effective early. There is a purpose in running it even if it isn't successful. There is some keys to reads on defense and one is the FB. You might have heard the phrase "the FB will take you to the play". Something you learn from pee-wee. When the Steelers establish the possibilty of handing to the FB miss direction of the HB, it will open up other things in short yardage. A counter pitch to Mendy or playaction could be all designed of the defense's reaction to the fake "quick pop" to Redman. I would say watch for that. ...


I am really hoping for this-

regardless of who is at QB-

With Mendy and Redman in the same backfield you can take that "running" formation- on any occasion and motion either of the backs into the slot- making it a passing formation.

lets say for the sake of it- you have ward and miller on one side- wallace on the other. Mendy and Redman in the pro- motion Mendy out to the strong side - Redman remains the lone back.

With both Mendenhall and Redman capable of catching out of the backfield, running, or bliz pick up- that combination has great potential to create mismatches and- most importantly- eliminate how predictable they have been based upon sub package and formation.

Yeah, the Pony is not only a potentially effective running formation, but also in the passing game, since Mendenhall is likely our most dynamic pass catching RB out of the backfield and Redman is our best pass-blocking RB back there.

Shoe
09-08-2010, 02:13 PM
If the Steelers insert Redman into the game and simply reverse pivot and hand him the ball they will fail miserably again in short yardage situations. You can't be predictable in the NFL; when defenses see Redman coming into the game they'll key him and without a lead blocker it will be futile again, IMO.

I'd see if Mendenhall can be a 3 down back. The ability to use any tool in the shed in short yardage is better than telling the defense here's our short yardage guy, stop him if you can.

Pappy

you are right you cant be predictible in the nfl usually, but when the bus came into the game his last few seasons when the offense had the ball inside the 10 everyone knew who was going to get the ball. it didnt matter though because bettis was $$ in short yardage. i know that was an entirely different offensive line and it was bettis. just sayin it can be done but you need the right personel.

also, presumably... redman has shown ability against OUR first team defense who probably knew of his capabilities and perhaps even the play being run--and they apparently still deem him worthy.

i do agree though, that you want a certain amount of deception or unpredictability in that situation.

Oviedo
09-08-2010, 02:15 PM
Merill Hoge was on ESPN 1250 this morning and brought up a good point about our running game. He said during the success of the 70s and to a lesser extent the 80s there was no real blocking FB because it was a split backfield and the FB was the primary ball carrier. He stressed that the Steelers always until Bettis under Cowher had a two back system, e.g. Harris gets 25 carries and Blier gets 10-12, him and someone else, etc.

He intimated that the notion of a lead FB just paving the way for a RB is not what the Steelers have always done and it is wrong approach going forward. It is the artifact of having Bettis.

cruzer8
09-08-2010, 02:34 PM
People say they want the Steelers to impose their will in the running game. Then they say they don't want them to be predictable in the running game.

Which is it?

Both... they are 2 different things.

We're talking short yardage.

Try to keep up.

phillyesq
09-08-2010, 02:42 PM
A lot of teams use short yardage and goal line backs. In fact, Bettis is probably the most notorious for that role.

I don't understand the concern that it will telegraph a play. Inserting Redman in short yardage doesn't force the Steelers to hand off; passing is still an option. But Redman has proven effective (in the preseason anyway), so when you're going to run, why not use the person with the best chance to succeed?

I like the idea of Redman spelling Mendy. If Mendy gets 20 carries per week (instead of 25), that equates to 320 carries over the season, as opposed to 400. Keeping Mendy fresh for the entire year, and not completely running him into the ground seems like a positive to me.

papillon
09-08-2010, 02:46 PM
[quote=papillon]A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

I don't see why you wouldn't Pap. To your point exactly about "paying the big money". Why would you want to get your feature back hurt in garbage time when a team is loading 8 & 9 in the box every 3 & out to get the ball back? Same as any team pulling the starting QB when the game is in hand. No use of risking injury. If you have a capable RB who is that bruiser who can hold onto the ball in clean-up...I'm pulling the trigger every time when the game is in hand. I'm not worried about stats. I need my feature healthy.

How many NFL games are in hand by the 4th quarter? Very few would be my guess, trying to define "in hand" could be difficult as well. I don't think the 4th quarter is garbage time (unless you're winning or losing by an extremely large margin). If you can close the game out, you close the game out with the personnel that give you the best chance to do that (Mendenhall over Redman). The Steelers couldn't close games out last year in the 4th quarter (offensively or defensively) if they could have done that one stinking time during their losing streak they would have been in the playoffs.

I'm not playing the second team when I'm trying to close out the game. That's just me, I'm not worried about whether Mendenhall has a 5 year career or a 12 year career, I'm trying to win Sunday's game first and foremost. This may be short sighted, but the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

Pappy
Didn't say second team Pap. Redman would still play behind starting OL. Let me give you an example very familiar to all of us Steelers fans. Ravens build up a lead on the Steelers with McGahee & Rice seeing a majority of the carries. Come 4th quarter when the Steelers need the ball back...We see a heavy dose of McClain. They move the sticks and eat up the clock. That's the role I'm talking about. A two posession lead in the 4th usually gets the winning offense to gear down. That's the "garbage time" I'm talking about. Garbage time by no means takes away the importance. It is more of a reference to the strategic fall off, if you will, of lining up, running it three times, and punting.[/quote:3sntmz2u]

Well, if Redman proves to be McClain then I'm all for it, but until then Mendenhall should be the guy taking the snaps to move the chains, IMO. By second team, I meant the running back, I realize the first team O-line will still be on the field, but I want the back on the field that gives us the best chance to win the game and at this point until proven otherwise Mendenhall is that guy.

Sir Isaac Redman still has to prove he can be that guy. If he proves he can do it, great, put him in the game. The first 4 games of this season aren't the time to find that out. Without a quarterback in the game that can cover up a lot of mistakes by the offense and defense the Steelers need to play the players that give them the best chance to steal two games out of the first four.

If the Steelers can go 2-2 w/o Ben and 8-4 with Ben that's 10-6 and probably a playoff spot; anything less than 2 games out of the first 4 will require a Ben lead offense and team to play better than .667 football to get into the playoffs and I believe that's a tall order with this team.

I don't see that the Steelers have a choice but to put the best football players on the field and try to win two games with Dixon. If that means veterans, running backs, WRs, etc are all playing to the final whistle, then so be it, but I wouldn't be worried about saving anybody for week 12 or beyond until I know I have two games in hand.

Pappy

Shoe
09-08-2010, 03:08 PM
Sir Isaac Redman still has to prove he can be that guy. If he proves he can do it, great, put him in the game. The first 4 games of this season aren't the time to find that out. Without a quarterback in the game that can cover up a lot of mistakes by the offense and defense the Steelers need to play the players that give them the best chance to steal two games out of the first four.

But it's not like we have anything great there, that Redman would be taking away from. We have been horrible in that regard for the past few years. Our o-line stinks (which is really distressing, since they have to be among the biggest fattest o-lines in the league--you'd think they could maul people in short-yardage)... so, why not bring in a guy who, albeit in preseason, has shown the ability to make stuff happen on his own: runs through contact, finds creases, etc.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
09-08-2010, 03:16 PM
[quote=papillon]A running back's life span in the NFL is about 5 years anything after that is gravy. I don't like the idea of pulling Mendenhall and inserting Redman to finish the game at all. If that is the case, the Steelers are paying the wrong guy big money.

I'd use Mendenhall assuming a 5 year career and then move on. If he lasts longer, that's great, but it is what it is and RBs have a short shelf life. Mendenhall is the most complete back the Steelers have had in a long time; I'd hate to see that talent on the sideline in the 4th quarter.

Pappy

I don't see why you wouldn't Pap. To your point exactly about "paying the big money". Why would you want to get your feature back hurt in garbage time when a team is loading 8 & 9 in the box every 3 & out to get the ball back? Same as any team pulling the starting QB when the game is in hand. No use of risking injury. If you have a capable RB who is that bruiser who can hold onto the ball in clean-up...I'm pulling the trigger every time when the game is in hand. I'm not worried about stats. I need my feature healthy.

How many NFL games are in hand by the 4th quarter? Very few would be my guess, trying to define "in hand" could be difficult as well. I don't think the 4th quarter is garbage time (unless you're winning or losing by an extremely large margin). If you can close the game out, you close the game out with the personnel that give you the best chance to do that (Mendenhall over Redman). The Steelers couldn't close games out last year in the 4th quarter (offensively or defensively) if they could have done that one stinking time during their losing streak they would have been in the playoffs.

I'm not playing the second team when I'm trying to close out the game. That's just me, I'm not worried about whether Mendenhall has a 5 year career or a 12 year career, I'm trying to win Sunday's game first and foremost. This may be short sighted, but the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

Pappy
Didn't say second team Pap. Redman would still play behind starting OL. Let me give you an example very familiar to all of us Steelers fans. Ravens build up a lead on the Steelers with McGahee & Rice seeing a majority of the carries. Come 4th quarter when the Steelers need the ball back...We see a heavy dose of McClain. They move the sticks and eat up the clock. That's the role I'm talking about. A two posession lead in the 4th usually gets the winning offense to gear down. That's the "garbage time" I'm talking about. Garbage time by no means takes away the importance. It is more of a reference to the strategic fall off, if you will, of lining up, running it three times, and punting.

Well, if Redman proves to be McClain then I'm all for it, but until then Mendenhall should be the guy taking the snaps to move the chains, IMO. By second team, I meant the running back, I realize the first team O-line will still be on the field, but I want the back on the field that gives us the best chance to win the game and at this point until proven otherwise Mendenhall is that guy.

Sir Isaac Redman still has to prove he can be that guy. If he proves he can do it, great, put him in the game. The first 4 games of this season aren't the time to find that out. Without a quarterback in the game that can cover up a lot of mistakes by the offense and defense the Steelers need to play the players that give them the best chance to steal two games out of the first four.

If the Steelers can go 2-2 w/o Ben and 8-4 with Ben that's 10-6 and probably a playoff spot; anything less than 2 games out of the first 4 will require a Ben lead offense and team to play better than .667 football to get into the playoffs and I believe that's a tall order with this team.

I don't see that the Steelers have a choice but to put the best football players on the field and try to win two games with Dixon. If that means veterans, running backs, WRs, etc are all playing to the final whistle, then so be it, but I wouldn't be worried about saving anybody for week 12 or beyond until I know I have two games in hand.

Pappy[/quote:w7xzrpa6]
I think we are talking apples and oranges Pap. We are talking with the assumption that Redman will be what they think he is. I refered to Mendy as my feature. When the game is in hand and you are looking for a roll player to grind it out...It doesn't have to be your feature taking that pounding. Many teams have it. I never implied Redman is to be the man. And if you are putting the best people on the field at the given situation, Redman could prove to be more productive running against the 8 man front. We already know Mendy is not. I agree, when the game is in question and the Steelers are playing down & distance football...The best players should be on the field given that situation. Mendy is the 3 down back unless we are in 3rd & short. But if the Steelers are sitting on a 2 posession lead with 6 minutes to go in the 4th with the ball...I'm going with the RB who is built for running against the 8 & 9 man front who could get the tough yards on his own. Hopefully that is Redman because Mendy can't do it.

papillon
09-08-2010, 05:19 PM
I think we are talking apples and oranges Pap. We are talking with the assumption that Redman will be what they think he is. I refered to Mendy as my feature. When the game is in hand and you are looking for a roll player to grind it out...It doesn't have to be your feature taking that pounding. Many teams have it. I never implied Redman is to be the man. And if you are putting the best people on the field at the given situation, Redman could prove to be more productive running against the 8 man front. We already know Mendy is not. I agree, when the game is in question and the Steelers are playing down & distance football...The best players should be on the field given that situation. Mendy is the 3 down back unless we are in 3rd & short. But if the Steelers are sitting on a 2 posession lead with 6 minutes to go in the 4th with the ball...I'm going with the RB who is built for running against the 8 & 9 man front who could get the tough yards on his own. Hopefully that is Redman because Mendy can't do it.

We'll just have to call this one a difference of opinion about using our running backs. I'm not sure that we know Mendenhall isn't a short yardage back. Two possession lead, 6 minutes to go and the ball is exactly the time I want the feature back on the field to ice it via the run or pass. A two possession lead can be anywhere from 6 points to 16 points and each of those can be made up in 6 minutes against the Steeler defense (we saw this last year time and time again). Until I see the Steeler defense make a stop in the 4th quarter with the lead I'm going on the assumption that last year is the norm and not the aberration.

Keep Mendenhall in the game and get more points, unless, it's 3rd and 1 or less, otherwise, it's Mendenhall for my money and lots of him, running it and receiving it for a change of pace.

Pappy