PDA

View Full Version : Ben can enter the UPMC complex



Crash
08-31-2010, 10:59 PM
Sorta.....

Per ESPN, and I quote:

On a suspension of less than one year, the player is allowed to be at the team facility and participate in team activities other than practice, at the club's discretion, according to a league spokesman. The rule was changed several years ago.

It's widely assumed that suspended players can't be around their team. Not so. You learn something every day.

hawaiiansteel
08-31-2010, 11:48 PM
i did not know that either but "still being around" should help Ben a lot.

Crash
09-01-2010, 12:21 AM
Holmes is a drug abuser.

Ben isn't.

So maybe the junkies get free reign minus practice, and the PCP guys do not.

Crash
09-01-2010, 10:11 AM
Santonio is allowed to go to the facility during his suspension.

Apparently uncharged Ben Roethlisberger is not.

If someone can tell me what sense that makes, I'd be most interested in hearing it.

frankthetank1
09-01-2010, 10:14 AM
Santonio is allowed to go to the facility during his suspension.

Apparently uncharged Ben Roethlisberger is not.

If someone can tell me what sense that makes, I'd be most interested in hearing it.

it doesnt make sense. its an unfair world with not a whole lot of logic. there are tons of injustices that happen on a daily basis. im sure ben will find a way to live through this tragedy.

flippy
09-01-2010, 10:40 AM
Look at what happened to Chris Henry when he was away from his team last year after getting hurt.

If you have problems as a player, the worst thing that can happen is to separate you from your team and leave you without a support system.

Keeping a suspended player away from his team is bad for the player imho.

flippy
09-01-2010, 10:40 AM
Look at what happened to Chris Henry when he was away from his team last year after getting hurt.

If you have problems as a player, the worst thing that can happen is to separate you from your team and leave you without a support system.

Keeping a suspended player away from his team is bad for the player imho.

Crash
09-01-2010, 10:45 AM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 10:56 AM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Slapstick
09-01-2010, 10:59 AM
You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Nobody raped anybody...

For a poster named The Answer, you don't seem to have any...

Crash
09-01-2010, 11:12 AM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

He raped no one.

Santonio is a known drug user.

phillyesq
09-01-2010, 11:32 AM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

You equate insufficient probable cause to bring a charge with a conviction?

frankthetank1
09-01-2010, 11:52 AM
you cant compare ben and santonio. the offense is totally different, apples and oranges. the only player you can compare ben with really is vince young. he too is a high profile qb in the nfl. not based on merrit like ben, more based on "reggie bush" like hype but VY is still a high profile player imo. vince young violated the nfl players conduct policy yet no suspension was handed out. i have a big problem with that because its not the same crime but it violated the same policy.

would roger goodell be harder on a player that does coke than a player that smokes pot? i doubt it, i bet it would be the same offense pretty much violating the same policy.

Crash
09-01-2010, 11:58 AM
you cant compare ben and santonio. the offense is totally different, apples and oranges.

Agreed.

Holmes is guilty as sin.

No probable cause to even charge Ben with a crime.

But the guilty player is allowed in the building.

cruzer8
09-01-2010, 12:29 PM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Welcome new troll.

Well, not really.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 12:39 PM
GEntlemen. I don't have the time this afternoon, but I'm sure with all the brilliant minds, in this thread alone, that someone here is familiar with the mathematical discipline called statistics.

How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Then speculate on why Ben feels it's necessary in the Trib today to talk about how he found God again. You know. Like all the criminals in jail today.

I'm all ears. If you wish, just concentrate on the statistical propability question.

Crash. Based on your reply, you're not really questioning how one person on drugs is treated differently than a person who's accused of sexual crimes. You're claiming him innocent. See last paragraph.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 12:40 PM
By the way, gentlmen. Not keeping my head up my behind, or drinking the local kool-aid, doesn't not make someone a troll. Doing so does. Think about it.

Slapstick
09-01-2010, 01:27 PM
I don't have the time this afternoon, but I'm sure with all the brilliant minds, in this thread alone, that someone here is familiar with the mathematical discipline called statistics.

How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Well, I'm not a statistician, but I would imagine that the odds are skewed when the person accused (I can't say "charged" because there was no evidence to charge this person) is a high-profile, Super Bowl winning, NFL QB as opposed to some average joe off the street or even some random message board troll...

That's not kool-aid...that's using my brain...

Saying Ben is a rapist without actually knowing anything is not using your brain...

phillyesq
09-01-2010, 01:28 PM
GEntlemen. I don't have the time this afternoon, but I'm sure with all the brilliant minds, in this thread alone, that someone here is familiar with the mathematical discipline called statistics.

How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Then speculate on why Ben feels it's necessary in the Trib today to talk about how he found God again. You know. Like all the criminals in jail today.

I'm all ears. If you wish, just concentrate on the statistical propability question.

Crash. Based on your reply, you're not really questioning how one person on drugs is treated differently than a person who's accused of sexual crimes. You're claiming him innocent. See last paragraph.

These issues were debated, ad nauseum, some time ago.

A few brief points:

1) Your purported reliance on statistics is flawed. The first accuser has no credibility, and the fact of a first accusation makes a second accusation more likely.

2) People are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The DA in Georgia determined that there was not even probable cause to bring charges, let alone evidence sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So, yes, as viewed in American jurisprudence, Big Ben is innocent.

ikestops85
09-01-2010, 01:30 PM
GEntlemen. I don't have the time this afternoon, but I'm sure with all the brilliant minds, in this thread alone, that someone here is familiar with the mathematical discipline called statistics.

How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Then speculate on why Ben feels it's necessary in the Trib today to talk about how he found God again. You know. Like all the criminals in jail today.

I'm all ears. If you wish, just concentrate on the statistical propability question.

Crash. Based on your reply, you're not really questioning how one person on drugs is treated differently than a person who's accused of sexual crimes. You're claiming him innocent. See last paragraph.

The answer to your probablility question is the odds are quite high that multiple people will accuse a high profile person like Ben of sexual assault.

The first accusation received so much publicity that it got everyone's attention. What didn't get much publicity was that the first accusation has been virtually proven to be ridiculous. The accuser sat infront of her computer the night of the supposed assault and bragged to everyone that she was going out to dinner with Ben the next night. Between that and a number of other emails and inconsistencies in her story blow this accusation out of the water in my opinion.

The second accusation was made as a result of the first accusation. One girl calls Ben a rapist and he kicks her out of the VIP room. She is the one who insists that her friend was raped when they talked to the policeman. Not the supposed victim. Her story doesn't develop until the next day. Watch the interviews released by the police and most logical people will agree that the story is contrived. Ben might have acted like an arse at times but not a rapist.

Oh, and while we were talking about probabilities ... as long as the probability is not 100% either side can be true. Think about it. :wink:

cruzer8
09-01-2010, 01:52 PM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Welcome new troll.

Well, not really.

QFT

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-01-2010, 02:28 PM
GEntlemen. I don't have the time this afternoon, but I'm sure with all the brilliant minds, in this thread alone, that someone here is familiar with the mathematical discipline called statistics.

How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Then speculate on why Ben feels it's necessary in the Trib today to talk about how he found God again. You know. Like all the criminals in jail today.

I'm all ears. If you wish, just concentrate on the statistical propability question.

Crash. Based on your reply, you're not really questioning how one person on drugs is treated differently than a person who's accused of sexual crimes. You're claiming him innocent. See last paragraph.

As a professional statistician*, OK I will concentrate on the statistical issue you raised.

A basic misunderstanding on your part re: probablility theory has led you to completely unsupportable conclusions. You'd be right if each event were independent of the other - under those circumstances, if Ben were accused twice, then the chances that he was guilty of at least one event would be higher than if he had been accused only once.

HOWEVER, the 1st event makes it much more likely that the 2nd event would occur (i.e., a "copycat" accusation). Thus, the fact that he was accused more than once is not prima facie more likely to mean that he was guilty of either than if he had been accused only once.

And THAT is "The Answer".

Kapisch??

SanAntonioSteelerFan
09-01-2010, 02:29 PM
* OK, I'm not a professional statistician, I admit it, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

RuthlessBurgher
09-01-2010, 02:40 PM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Welcome new troll.

Well, not really.

QFT

Did you just quote yourself for truth? :lol:

Shawn
09-01-2010, 02:58 PM
GEntlemen. I don't have the time this afternoon, but I'm sure with all the brilliant minds, in this thread alone, that someone here is familiar with the mathematical discipline called statistics.

How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Then speculate on why Ben feels it's necessary in the Trib today to talk about how he found God again. You know. Like all the criminals in jail today.

I'm all ears. If you wish, just concentrate on the statistical propability question.

Crash. Based on your reply, you're not really questioning how one person on drugs is treated differently than a person who's accused of sexual crimes. You're claiming him innocent. See last paragraph.

So you are saying the girl in Georgia never heard of the Colorado case? Come on man. Not hard to believe two women would accuse the same high profile character of rape.

Crash
09-01-2010, 03:07 PM
Accusations mean nothing to me.

The Answer, you blow goats.

See that? That's an accusation.

Now what? Should you be fired for 4-6 weeks even though, just like DA Bright I have no proof of this?

I'm sorry but to allow an admitted drug addict access to his team while suspended, and to not allow a man who was UNCHARGED with any crime the same access, is wrong.

Crash
09-01-2010, 03:09 PM
How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

One of the women in Miss DTF's party is a Steelers fan. They knew about Reno. And, as Biancofiore said in her taped interview to the GBI which you can hear yourself, they knew about "Ben's reputation".

Crunch this :Blah .

Crash
09-01-2010, 03:16 PM
Like I said before, I do find it odd that Bright never released the text messages of Miss DTF and her friends (That he was waiting for when he had his PC).

Maybe that proves the rumors were true that were posted on other sites.

Crash
09-01-2010, 04:01 PM
Boy, someone got quiet. I guess they ran out of Answers.

cruzer8
09-01-2010, 05:27 PM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Welcome new troll.

Well, not really.

QFT

Did you just quote yourself for truth? :lol:

Yup! :lol:

Chadman
09-01-2010, 05:37 PM
Maybe Chadman is on his own in this, but as of now, he's stopped caring.

Ben is suspended, Lefty will start.

Steelers might win 1. Maybe none. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.

Can we just start the football? Move on?

ikestops85
09-01-2010, 06:08 PM
Maybe Chadman is on his own in this, but as of now, he's stopped caring.

Ben is suspended, Lefty will start.

Steelers might win 1. Maybe none. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.

Can we just start the football? Move on?

and who got up on the wrong hemisphere today? :moon

:lol:

pfelix73
09-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Hey Chadman- Is that your new girlfriend?

yawsa....

At ease

Go Steelers! Onward to SB win #7.
:tt1

The Answer
09-01-2010, 08:58 PM
Well, I'm not a statistician, but I would imagine that the odds are skewed when the person accused

I will grant you that being high profile makes him a target. I'm going to try and answer each of these replies individually, so I'm not going to elaborate more on the second hearing the first charges before making her claim in this reply. I'll do each as they come. For your reply, I stipulate that Ben is a target. But so is the other 600 players in the league. How many had two women accuse them of the same thing in a couple months time, 3 time zones apart? That's called using your brain also. By the way, he still has a date in civil court on the first one. Will you come back and say that it's likely he's guilty of both if he loses? Didn't think so. By the way. The odds don't get skewed. The possibility is greater than you or I, but the odds are still greatly against both events with the same perp.

That's not kool-aid...that's using my brain...

Saying Ben is a rapist without actually knowing anything is not using your brain...

You overworked your brain, I think. But on this point, I need to add the adjective, accused. Please mentally insert it if it makes you sleep better. I for one, and alot of this is based on his actions, believe he's guilty of forcing himself on both women. I don't allow women much slack on rape cases when they follow a man around asking for it. My views on that would shock you I think. I think Mike Tyson was innocent. But this conversation is based on other people's interpretation of the law, so we'll keep it there.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:03 PM
These issues were debated, ad nauseum, some time ago.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China.

A few brief points:

1) Your purported reliance on statistics is flawed. The first accuser has no credibility, and the fact of a first accusation makes a second accusation more likely.

What? The first on is still pending. Do you or I have this backwards. Either way, if the one that is still pending goes against him, I expect you to come back and inform us that the second one is likely to be true even though the girl was drunk.

2) People are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The DA in Georgia determined that there was not even probable cause to bring charges, let alone evidence sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So, yes, as viewed in American jurisprudence, Big Ben is innocent.

Yes. I'm a big believer in the presumed innocence. Insert accused in front of rapist everywhere I used the term. The DA in Georgia didn't think the girl was a reliable witness because of the shape she was in. Beyond that, something occured, but he didn't feel he had enough to proceed with the case in court at the taxpayers expense. I'll bet Ben is counting his lucky stars right now. Yes, for now, Ben is considered innocent like Michael Jackson was considered innocent.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:10 PM
The answer to your probablility question is the odds are quite high that multiple people will accuse a high profile person like Ben of sexual assault.

Thank you for your honesty.

The first accusation received so much publicity that it got everyone's attention. What didn't get much publicity was that the first accusation has been virtually proven to be ridiculous. The accuser sat infront of her computer the night of the supposed assault and bragged to everyone that she was going out to dinner with Ben the next night. Between that and a number of other emails and inconsistencies in her story blow this accusation out of the water in my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion.

The second accusation was made as a result of the first accusation.

Nonsense. Making accusations like that is serious business. No one takes them lightly. Has the DA charged her with making a false report? That would be very telling to the veracity of your theory.

One girl calls Ben a rapist and he kicks her out of the VIP room. She is the one who insists that her friend was raped when they talked to the policeman. Not the supposed victim. Her story doesn't develop until the next day. Watch the interviews released by the police and most logical people will agree that the story is contrived.

Most logical people believe that he did it. Most die hard fans looking for excuses think the story was contrived.

Ben might have acted like an arse at times but not a rapist.

Oh, and while we were talking about probabilities ... as long as the probability is not 100% either side can be true. Think about it. :wink:

I grant you that. I sure as hell don't know for sure. But with the chance I outlined, and his actions, I believe he did it. Hell. Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter on the Ohio turnpike. He never went to jail, did he? Using the logic of the average forum troll, he was also falsely accused, I suppose. That was not targeted for you by the way. It should have been included in the last two responses.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:11 PM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Welcome new troll.

Well, not really.

QFT

Sheer genius. If someone gives you a different opinion, please add it. I'd be glad to respond. QFT

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:12 PM
* OK, I'm not a professional statistician, I admit it, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Good stuff. :Clap

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:12 PM
I just don't understand why a drug user is allowed to stay in the facility, and an uncharged player is banned for four weeks.

You equate rape with smoking a joint?

Welcome new troll.

Well, not really.

QFT

Did you just quote yourself for truth? :lol:

He apparently is not the sharpest tool in the shed. QFT

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:14 PM
So you are saying the girl in Georgia never heard of the Colorado case? Come on man. Not hard to believe two women would accuse the same high profile character of rape.

A bunch of girls heard it. How many have charged him with rape since? Hard to believe for you huh?

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:22 PM
Accusations mean nothing to me.

Nor I Crash. But for the time being, without video, I have to form an opinion from all the facts available. I've done so. It appears you haven't given it that much thought, but I'll entertain myself through the rest of your post.

The Answer, you blow goats.

Ha. I see you're a very open minded individual. If I don't agree with you, I blow goats? I'm kinda new here to say the least, so I'm going to have to assume, since you have quite a few posts, that this is O.K. to talk to other posters like that? Try to respond intelligently to my posts if you want to have a dialogue.


See that? That's an accusation.

Now what? Should you be fired for 4-6 weeks even though, just like DA Bright I have no proof of this?

I'm sorry but to allow an admitted drug addict access to his team while suspended, and to not allow a man who was UNCHARGED with any crime the same access, is wrong.

Drug addict? Get serious. Do you drink? Are you a drug addict? Alcohol is a drug. Do you drink coffee in the morning? I'll bet they'd even let you in.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:23 PM
How about crunching this one. See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

One of the women in Miss DTF's party is a Steelers fan. They knew about Reno. And, as Biancofiore said in her taped interview to the GBI which you can hear yourself, they knew about "Ben's reputation".

Crunch this :Blah .

Pretend you're more mature please.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:25 PM
Boy, someone got quiet. I guess they ran out of Answers.

I skipped one useless post. I think you ran out of questions. Are you related to Ben? Does this behavior run in his family? Yours? You're taking this quite seriously to keep replying to yourself, and then when I don't reply in one minute, to say something like that.

The Answer
09-01-2010, 09:27 PM
Maybe Chadman is on his own in this, but as of now, he's stopped caring.

Ben is suspended, Lefty will start.

Steelers might win 1. Maybe none. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.

Can we just start the football? Move on?

and who got up on the wrong hemisphere today? :moon

:lol:

I think he's right. None of it matters.

But somehow, I don't think Crash is going to let it die. Hey Crash. If I don't log back in tonight, don't claim a landslide victory. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Captain Lemming
09-01-2010, 09:27 PM
No "ANSWER" to be had.
Two extremes, one says he did it and many who said he did not.

Truth is we simply dont know.

I'm just happy Ben seems serious about never making it a question for debate again.

stlrz d
09-01-2010, 10:04 PM
Long time no see HeHateMe.

Captain Lemming
09-02-2010, 12:13 AM
Long time no see HeHateMe. :lol:

Slapstick
09-02-2010, 09:02 AM
Well, I'm not a statistician, but I would imagine that the odds are skewed when the person accused

I will grant you that being high profile makes him a target. I'm going to try and answer each of these replies individually, so I'm not going to elaborate more on the second hearing the first charges before making her claim in this reply. I'll do each as they come. For your reply, I stipulate that Ben is a target. But so is the other 600 players in the league. How many had two women accuse them of the same thing in a couple months time, 3 time zones apart? That's called using your brain also. By the way, he still has a date in civil court on the first one. Will you come back and say that it's likely he's guilty of both if he loses? Didn't think so. By the way. The odds don't get skewed. The possibility is greater than you or I, but the odds are still greatly against both events with the same perp.

That's not kool-aid...that's using my brain...

Saying Ben is a rapist without actually knowing anything is not using your brain...

You overworked your brain, I think. But on this point, I need to add the adjective, accused. Please mentally insert it if it makes you sleep better. I for one, and alot of this is based on his actions, believe he's guilty of forcing himself on both women. I don't allow women much slack on rape cases when they follow a man around asking for it. My views on that would shock you I think. I think Mike Tyson was innocent. But this conversation is based on other people's interpretation of the law, so we'll keep it there.



If by a "couple months", you mean a year and after it had been a high profile story in the news media than I still think that your argument makes little sense...

The outcome of a civil case has little or nothing to do with truth...

I didn't need to overwork my brain...the concept isn't difficult...

I really don't give a crap about your opinion on Mike Tyson or anything else...

frankthetank1
09-02-2010, 09:08 AM
Maybe Chadman is on his own in this, but as of now, he's stopped caring.

Ben is suspended, Lefty will start.

Steelers might win 1. Maybe none. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.

Can we just start the football? Move on?

you are definetly not alone. i stopped caring what ben did in GA a long long time ago. its old news and there are not many clear cut facts. i just want the season to start already.

RuthlessBurgher
09-02-2010, 10:22 AM
Maybe Chadman is on his own in this, but as of now, he's stopped caring.

Ben is suspended, Lefty will start.

Steelers might win 1. Maybe none. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.

Can we just start the football? Move on?

you are definetly not alone. i stopped caring what ben did in GA a long long time ago. its old news and there are not many clear cut facts. i just want the season to start already.

I thought once training camp and the preseason games got here, many of the blowhards would start talking actual football and put the endless Ben drama on the backburner. No dice. Now I fear that the militant Ben bashers and defenders will continue sparring even when we have real games to talk about. All it is is a lot of wasted energy. Those people's viewpoints on both sides are so ingrained at this point that they will not budge whatsoever, so trying to convince either side of anything at this point is a fruitless endeavor. People see what they want to see, and ignore what does not match their own personal agenda. I know that I am also ready for some football...in the worst way.

feltdizz
09-02-2010, 12:01 PM
Maybe Chadman is on his own in this, but as of now, he's stopped caring.

Ben is suspended, Lefty will start.

Steelers might win 1. Maybe none. Maybe 4. Maybe 5.

Can we just start the football? Move on?

you are definetly not alone. i stopped caring what ben did in GA a long long time ago. its old news and there are not many clear cut facts. i just want the season to start already.

I thought once training camp and the preseason games got here, many of the blowhards would start talking actual football and put the endless Ben drama on the backburner. No dice. Now I fear that the militant Ben bashers and defenders will continue sparring even when we have real games to talk about. All it is is a lot of wasted energy. Those people's viewpoints on both sides are so ingrained at this point that they will not budge whatsoever, so trying to convince either side of anything at this point is a fruitless endeavor. People see what they want to see, and ignore what does not match their own personal agenda. I know that I am also ready for some football...in the worst way.

It was great theater when we had nothing to watch...

The Answer
09-02-2010, 12:15 PM
No "ANSWER" to be had.
Two extremes, one says he did it and many who said he did not.

Truth is we simply dont know.

I'm just happy Ben seems serious about never making it a question for debate again.

I'm not saying he did it. I simply don't know. But I believe he did.

The Answer
09-02-2010, 12:16 PM
If by a "couple months", you mean a year and after it had been a high profile story in the news media than I still think that your argument makes little sense...

The outcome of a civil case has little or nothing to do with truth...

I didn't need to overwork my brain...the concept isn't difficult...

I really don't give a crap about your opinion on Mike Tyson or anything else...

Hmm. You're a liar also? Your reaction, more than once tells a different story than your dishonest fingertips do. You appear to care quite a bit. Hope you didn't lose any sleep.

grotonsteel
09-02-2010, 12:21 PM
[quote="Captain Lemming":75yr27m6]No "ANSWER" to be had.
Two extremes, one says he did it and many who said he did not.

Truth is we simply dont know.

I'm just happy Ben seems serious about never making it a question for debate again.

I'm not saying he did it. I simply don't know. But I believe he did.[/quote:75yr27m6]


Any reason for your belief???

I am pretty sure you have never attended college. Else your belief will be definitely different.

The Answer
09-02-2010, 12:24 PM
I thought once training camp and the preseason games got here, many of the blowhards would start talking actual football and put the endless Ben drama on the backburner.

That could have went down that way. Why didn't it? I signed on, and less then 10 threads down the page was this one. Where was all that talk you speak of once training camps started. If this had been pushed to page 2 by all that talk since training camp started, I wouldn't even have found it. I suspect the hard blowing is going on now. ANd the blowhard that equates smoking a joint to rape is most responsible for my interest in this thread.

No dice.

Apparently not. See previous paragraph.

Now I fear that the militant Ben bashers and defenders will continue sparring even when we have real games to talk about. All it is is a lot of wasted energy.

I agree. But the fact is, when you log on here, you're already implying that you're looking to waste some energy. If you truly wanted to save yours, why did you reply? I get it. You just want to tell everyone else what to do? There's several other threads, so I suggest you start saving your energy right now.

Those people's viewpoints on both sides are so ingrained at this point that they will not budge whatsoever, so trying to convince either side of anything at this point is a fruitless endeavor.

Au contraire, mon fraire. I leave open the real possibility that he didn't do it. And I support my opinion on why I think he probably did. Has the other side met either of those criteria? You?

People see what they want to see, and ignore what does not match their own personal agenda. I know that I am also ready for some football...in the worst way.

If they start off 0-4, you'll be singing a different tune. Is your local high school any good?

Crash
09-02-2010, 12:37 PM
But I believe he did.

Based on what?

I believe you enticed a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy. Never mind that I have no evidence to support this, but I believe you did.

That's what you sound like.

grotonsteel
09-02-2010, 12:40 PM
But I believe he did.

Based on what?

I believe you enticed a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy. Never mind that I have no evidence to support this, but I believe you did.

That's what you sound like.

:lol: :lol: :Bow

Ouch that must have hurt "The Answer" now maybe we might see "The Question"

The Answer
09-02-2010, 02:36 PM
There you go clowns. Looks like alot of people didn't attend college. You clowns are in the minority.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... steelers/1

What penalty should Roethlisberger receive?

No more than four games 25%

Make him sit six games 36%

Suspend him for the season 24%

Lift suspension entirely 15%

TOTAL VOTES: 7857

Latest results ( as of 12:45 p.m. )

The Answer
09-02-2010, 02:38 PM
[quote="Captain Lemming":3wwm5jlv]No "ANSWER" to be had.
Two extremes, one says he did it and many who said he did not.

Truth is we simply dont know.

I'm just happy Ben seems serious about never making it a question for debate again.

I'm not saying he did it. I simply don't know. But I believe he did.


Any reason for your belief???

I am pretty sure you have never attended college. Else your belief will be definitely different.[/quote:3wwm5jlv]

Do you require that I repeat myself 5, 6, 10, or 15 times before you grasp it?

See how many non-college people read and vote in USA today.

The Answer
09-02-2010, 02:39 PM
But I believe he did.

Based on what?

I believe you enticed a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy. Never mind that I have no evidence to support this, but I believe you did.

That's what you sound like.

You sound like a little punk who's never worked a day in his life. Did someone invite you to their house, Crash. You got the routine down, son.

Slapstick
09-02-2010, 02:41 PM
Hmm. You're a liar also? Your reaction, more than once tells a different story than your dishonest fingertips do. You appear to care quite a bit. Hope you didn't lose any sleep.

Well, now you are just trying to bait me into indulging your apparently obsessive need for attention by calling me a liar...

Fair enough...but it won't work, though you are a master baiter...

Crash
09-02-2010, 03:36 PM
But I believe he did.

Based on what?

I believe you enticed a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy. Never mind that I have no evidence to support this, but I believe you did.

That's what you sound like.

You sound like a little punk who's never worked a day in his life. Did someone invite you to their house, Crash. You got the routine down, son.

And yet you still won't say why you think he did it.

Imagine that.

eniparadoxgma
09-02-2010, 04:32 PM
Most logical people believe that he did it..



Do you have anything to back up this claim or are you just making things up?

RuthlessBurgher
09-02-2010, 05:42 PM
Most logical people believe that he did it..



Do you have anything to back up this claim or are you just making things up?

Uh oh...looks like eni found someone new to play with... :twisted:

grotonsteel
09-02-2010, 05:49 PM
There you go clowns. Looks like alot of people didn't attend college. You clowns are in the minority.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... steelers/1

What penalty should Roethlisberger receive?

No more than four games 25%

Make him sit six games 36%

Suspend him for the season 24%

Lift suspension entirely 15%

TOTAL VOTES: 7857

Latest results ( as of 12:45 p.m. )


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again any reason for your belief???

Sugar
09-02-2010, 05:54 PM
There you go clowns. Looks like alot of people didn't attend college. You clowns are in the minority.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... steelers/1

What penalty should Roethlisberger receive?

No more than four games 25%

Make him sit six games 36%

Suspend him for the season 24%

Lift suspension entirely 15%

TOTAL VOTES: 7857

Latest results ( as of 12:45 p.m. )

Wow, that's funny stuff right there. Quoting a USA Today poll- really? :roll:

I'm guessing there are no fans of division rivals that vote in these "communities" are there? Let's not even consider fans of any other team that we play this year that knows that the Pittsburgh Steelers are a weaker team without Ben Roethlisberger.

eniparadoxgma
09-02-2010, 08:40 PM
Most logical people believe that he did it..



Do you have anything to back up this claim or are you just making things up?

Uh oh...looks like eni found someone new to play with... :twisted:
:)

The Answer
09-03-2010, 07:18 AM
Hmm. You're a liar also? Your reaction, more than once tells a different story than your dishonest fingertips do. You appear to care quite a bit. Hope you didn't lose any sleep.

Well, now you are just trying to bait me into indulging your apparently obsessive need for attention by calling me a liar...

Fair enough...but it won't work, though you are a master baiter...

Listen son. I'm not trying to bait you into anything. You know what this is? (?) And this? (.) The first indicates that I'm asking you if you're a liar. Give your right hand a break tonight and bone up on reading. It's you who's doing the baiting, master.

The Answer
09-03-2010, 07:20 AM
There you go clowns. Looks like alot of people didn't attend college. You clowns are in the minority.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... steelers/1

What penalty should Roethlisberger receive?

No more than four games 25%

Make him sit six games 36%

Suspend him for the season 24%

Lift suspension entirely 15%

TOTAL VOTES: 7857

Latest results ( as of 12:45 p.m. )


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again any reason for your belief???


You guys looking for video? What a bunch of dorks. I've explained this more than once in here. Go back and read it.

Slapstick
09-03-2010, 08:37 AM
Listen son. I'm not trying to bait you into anything. You know what this is? (?) And this? (.) The first indicates that I'm asking you if you're a liar. Give your right hand a break tonight and bone up on reading. It's you who's doing the baiting, master.

And now, troll, you show you true colors as the stereotypical "anonymous message board tough guy"...

Bravo...

Now, you have made yourself look stupid AND insecure...

Have a nice day, "son"...

grotonsteel
09-03-2010, 11:21 AM
[quote="The Answer":2zp4dv7b]There you go clowns. Looks like alot of people didn't attend college. You clowns are in the minority.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... steelers/1

What penalty should Roethlisberger receive?

No more than four games 25%

Make him sit six games 36%

Suspend him for the season 24%

Lift suspension entirely 15%

TOTAL VOTES: 7857

Latest results ( as of 12:45 p.m. )


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again any reason for your belief???


You guys looking for video? What a bunch of dorks. I've explained this more than once in here. Go back and read it.[/quote:2zp4dv7b]

Yes...any proof you have that DA never got or mentioned in the transcripts?

You are that girl from Midgeville?

The Answer
09-03-2010, 03:03 PM
The biggest collection of non replies I think I've ever encountered. Bravo boys. :tt2

Slapstick
09-03-2010, 03:43 PM
The biggest collection of non replies I think I've ever encountered. Bravo boys. :tt2

Ask a non-question, get a non-reply... :tt2

eniparadoxgma
09-03-2010, 04:06 PM
The biggest collection of non replies I think I've ever encountered. Bravo boys. :tt2

An amusing statement from someone that didn't reply to my own question.

:tt2 :tt2 :tt2

RuthlessBurgher
09-03-2010, 04:10 PM
The biggest collection of non replies I think I've ever encountered. Bravo boys. :tt2

An amusing statement from someone that didn't reply to my own question.

:tt2 :tt2 :tt2

For someone nicknamed "The Answer" is sure seems like he needs "Practice" actually "Answering" people's "Questions" on here.

http://ourkitchensink.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/practice-allen-iverson-our-kitchen-sink.jpg

The Answer
09-03-2010, 07:27 PM
How many times does a question have to be answered before it's answered. Can anyone here read? I answered all the questions in this very thread. Too lazy to read, tough ****. I"m not repeating myself endlessly.

kagefury
09-03-2010, 07:51 PM
You know what this is? (?) And this? (.)

The second one is half a boob...(.)(.)

...and The Answer is this 3=>

eniparadoxgma
09-03-2010, 09:15 PM
How many times does a question have to be answered before it's answered. Can anyone here read? I answered all the questions in this very thread. Too lazy to read, tough bad word. I"m not repeating myself endlessly.

Nice cop out. I asked a specific question you have yet to answer. I suggest you work on your own skills at reading comprehension before questioning anyone else's.

You most certainly did not explain your reasoning behind stating that "Most logical people believe he did it". First, I'm quite curious as to what credentials you have that give you the ability to ascertain what is actually "logical" and what isn't. Secondly, I'm curious as to what credentials you have that give you the ability to tell what "most people" think about anything. Next, I'm wondering when it was that "most logical people" (once we have that whole thing ironed out, of course) made you their spokesperson.

You'll have to excuse me for wondering about your supposed ability to speak about such things as "logic" when you create an account on a PITTSBURGH STEELERS message board with a name like "The Answer" and then proceed to start telling everyone you think that the PITTSBURGH STEELERS quarterback committed rape, not once but two times, then don't supply any actual "logic" or "reasoning" to back up your claims, and then wonder why people are basically laughing you out of here. However, the icing on the cake is definitely this whole "Most logical people believe yada yada". It's obvious by your choice of timing, your choice of thread, your choice of stance, your choice of nickname, etc, that logic is most definitely not what you intend to bring here...and you are at least living up to that standard.

Either start supplying "answers" or confirm the already voiced suspicions that you're just another troll (probably of the HeHateMe variety). :)

Sugar
09-03-2010, 09:47 PM
How many times does a question have to be answered before it's answered. Can anyone here read? I answered all the questions in this very thread. Too lazy to read, tough bad word. I"m not repeating myself endlessly.

:lol: You ARE kidding, right? You supplied a USA Today online poll as some kind of proof of your belief. What's next, a strip from the Sunday comics?

The fact is that you have not, indeed, answered the question that have been posed to you.

The Answer
09-04-2010, 11:14 AM
How many times does a question have to be answered before it's answered. Can anyone here read? I answered all the questions in this very thread. Too lazy to read, tough bad word. I"m not repeating myself endlessly.

Nice cop out. I asked a specific question you have yet to answer. I suggest you work on your own skills at reading comprehension before questioning anyone else's.

You most certainly did not explain your reasoning behind stating that "Most logical people believe he did it". First, I'm quite curious as to what credentials you have that give you the ability to ascertain what is actually "logical" and what isn't. Secondly, I'm curious as to what credentials you have that give you the ability to tell what "most people" think about anything. Next, I'm wondering when it was that "most logical people" (once we have that whole thing ironed out, of course) made you their spokesperson.

You'll have to excuse me for wondering about your supposed ability to speak about such things as "logic" when you create an account on a PITTSBURGH STEELERS message board with a name like "The Answer" and then proceed to start telling everyone you think that the PITTSBURGH STEELERS quarterback committed rape, not once but two times, then don't supply any actual "logic" or "reasoning" to back up your claims, and then wonder why people are basically laughing you out of here. However, the icing on the cake is definitely this whole "Most logical people believe yada yada". It's obvious by your choice of timing, your choice of thread, your choice of stance, your choice of nickname, etc, that logic is most definitely not what you intend to bring here...and you are at least living up to that standard.

Either start supplying "answers" or confirm the already voiced suspicions that you're just another troll (probably of the HeHateMe variety). :)

No, I did answer it. Please stop responding until you go back and read. Same with the clown who replied after you. The USA poll was only to show that more people agree with me than you homers. Go back further. Don't be so lazy. Think. It'll be the first time you boys did it on this topic.

By the way. Don't think the league didn't investigate this thing. Probably better than the police. They didn't suspend him lightly and on a whim. And the fact he didn't reduce his suspension to a level below where he initially said he would is de facto proof that he did something, even though it's not their place to reveal it. You know how much heat they're taking on this and they won't budge?

Crash
09-04-2010, 12:03 PM
And the fact he didn't reduce his suspension to a level below where he initially said he would is de facto proof that he did something, even though it's not their place to reveal it.

Goodell always stated it was 6 could be down to 4.

Ben got 4.

Goodell would never admit he made a mistake. That's why it's 4 and not 3 or less.

He also didn't want to deal with the backlash if he made it 3 or less.

eniparadoxgma
09-04-2010, 05:23 PM
No, I did answer it. Please stop responding until you go back and read. Same with the clown who replied after you. The USA poll was only to show that more people agree with me than you homers. Go back further. Don't be so lazy. Think. It'll be the first time you boys did it on this topic.

By the way. Don't think the league didn't investigate this thing. Probably better than the police. They didn't suspend him lightly and on a whim. And the fact he didn't reduce his suspension to a level below where he initially said he would is de facto proof that he did something, even though it's not their place to reveal it. You know how much heat they're taking on this and they won't budge?

Well, you have typed a lot in this thread, but in my opinion you haven't said much. Since you're unwilling to point to whatever it is you think you've said that would answer my question, I'm forced to go back and address what points it seems you think you've made.


See what the propabilities are of two women, both strangers, in two different cities accross the country, having never seen or talked to each other, both accusing Ben of vitually the same thing. Crunch that up.

Really? What does geography have anything to do with it? Ben is nationally known, which makes geography irrelevant. Erasing the geographical element of your point (you do know the Georgia accuser stated they knew who Ben was, right?) then what's left? What is the probability that two women would accuse Ben of (almost) the same thing? I believe Slapstick, Philly and others have already addressed this point. Given that the first accusation made national news and Ben is a famous sports star, you can't simply point to a 2nd accusation as some type of irrefutable proof of his guilt. There are more variables at play than you are willing to admit, and they cause your simplistic point regarding the probability of this happening to be all but nullified.


Then speculate on why Ben feels it's necessary in the Trib today to talk about how he found God again. You know. Like all the criminals in jail today.

Again, Ben is a national figure. What do you expect him to say? Regardless of any actual guilt involving either case you garnered negative national attention. I would expect his agent to tell him that it was time he "found God". It's called PR.


For your reply, I stipulate that Ben is a target. But so is the other 600 players in the league. How many had two women accuse them of the same thing in a couple months time, 3 time zones apart?

How many players that are the target of a civil case of this sort put themselves in a position to get accused a second time? I think most people regardless of their team association believe that Ben exercised some bad judgment by allowing himself to be put in a position to be accused. You act as if Ben had been playing choir boy since his first accusation. Also, accusations do not equal guilt. I'm not sure why you keep assuming that.


By the way, he still has a date in civil court on the first one. Will you come back and say that it's likely he's guilty of both if he loses? Didn't think so. By the way. The odds don't get skewed. The possibility is greater than you or I, but the odds are still greatly against both events with the same perp.

I'm not sure if you are aware but the majority of civil cases revolve around money, not guilt. It's much easier to win a civil case than a criminal one. Why is there no criminal suit against him in Nevada? Why is there no criminal or civil suit against him in Georgia? I don't think McNulty will win the civil case, but even if she were to how would that equate to guilt? Do you know what details might emerge from the civil case that we're not already privy to? All you have in Nevada is the word of a girl that is much much less than a level headed accuser. Why does that somehow equate to guilt to you? You have yet to address this. As to your "the odds don't get skewed" statement...I'm not sure how familiar with statistics you actually are, but they are most certainly skewed and much different from the portrait you're trying to paint. Ben is a national figure. The GA girls knew who he was and spoke of him being a "rapist" beforehand. Aside from that, improbable things happen daily. Are you trying to say they don't actually happen because...there's less than a 50% probability of them occurring?

eniparadoxgma
09-04-2010, 05:47 PM
cont.


I for one, and alot of this is based on his actions, believe he's guilty of forcing himself on both women.

What actions? Why are you being so vague about this? We know you believe he's guilty. What we don't know is why, unless your point regarding probability and a USA Today poll are enough to sway you to believing someone guilty of something when they haven't even been criminally charged once.


The DA in Georgia didn't think the girl was a reliable witness because of the shape she was in. Beyond that, something occured, but he didn't feel he had enough to proceed with the case in court at the taxpayers expense. I'll bet Ben is counting his lucky stars right now. Yes, for now, Ben is considered innocent like Michael Jackson was considered innocent.

Why would he not go after Ben? It would be in the DA's interest to pursue criminal charges. That would get his name out there and make him famous regardless of the outcome of the trial. So...because the DA didn't have enough evidence to go pursue Ben in a criminal case this somehow make Ben seem *more* guilty? How exactly does that work?

Here's something I find particularly disturbing:



The first accusation received so much publicity that it got everyone's attention. What didn't get much publicity was that the first accusation has been virtually proven to be ridiculous. The accuser sat infront of her computer the night of the supposed assault and bragged to everyone that she was going out to dinner with Ben the next night. Between that and a number of other emails and inconsistencies in her story blow this accusation out of the water in my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Ike goes out of his way to provide you with his reasoning behind his belief that Ben is not guilty of anything in Nevada...and your response is "You are entitled to your opinion"? If you were actually interested in having a "dialogue" then you would attempt to address his points. However, you do not. If your only point is to claim Ben is guilty of rape but not actually have a dialogue then all anyone has to do in response to your claims is respond with "You are entitled to your opinion". But, I thought you were trying to have a dialogue concerning this. Which is it?


Nonsense. Making accusations like that is serious business. No one takes them lightly. Has the DA charged her with making a false report? That would be very telling to the veracity of your theory.

Has the DA charged Ben with anything? That would be very telling to the veracity of your theory of guilt.


Most logical people believe that he did it.

You still have yet to address this "point". Quoting a USA Today poll is quite meaningless for a number of reasons. I'm addressing your other points.


I grant you that. I sure as hell don't know for sure. But with the chance I outlined, and his actions, I believe he did it. Hell. Ernie Holmes shot at a police helicopter on the Ohio turnpike. He never went to jail, did he? Using the logic of the average forum troll, he was also falsely accused, I suppose. That was not targeted for you by the way. It should have been included in the last two responses.

I'm unaware of anyone stating that being accused of something but not found guilty in a court of law necessarily meant someone was innocent. If you can find where this has been posited please quote it for me.


That could have went down that way. Why didn't it? I signed on, and less then 10 threads down the page was this one. Where was all that talk you speak of once training camps started. If this had been pushed to page 2 by all that talk since training camp started, I wouldn't even have found it. I suspect the hard blowing is going on now. ANd the blowhard that equates smoking a joint to rape is most responsible for my interest in this thread

And the blowhard that equates an accusation from a very shaky individual and another from a drunk college girl with a "DTF" badge on with "OMG BEN IS A SERIAL RAPIST" is the most reponsible for my interest in this thread.


I leave open the real possibility that he didn't do it. And I support my opinion on why I think he probably did. Has the other side met either of those criteria? You?

The possibility that he did do "it" is also out there. I was not there in Nevada nor was I present in Georgia when these alleged incidents took place. However, I most certainly don't jump to an opinion of guilt based on what evidence there is out there.


See how many non-college people read and vote in USA today.

I'm curious about this one. Do you have some evidence regarding how many USA Today readers are college educated? Just curious.


No, I did answer it. Please stop responding until you go back and read. Same with the clown who replied after you. The USA poll was only to show that more people agree with me than you homers. Go back further. Don't be so lazy. Think. It'll be the first time you boys did it on this topic.

Well, I had already read through the thread and now I think it should be obvious that I have...and you've yet to answer my question. Most logical people? Really? I await the answer to my question.


By the way. Don't think the league didn't investigate this thing. Probably better than the police. They didn't suspend him lightly and on a whim.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pitt ... mes-090310 (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pittsburgh-Steelers-QB-Ben-Roethlisberger-suspension-reduced-to-four-games-090310)

Roethlisberger is the first player suspended by Goodell under the NFL's personal conduct policy who was not arrested, charged with or convicted of a crime. However, Goodell said in April the policy allows him to impose such a penalty when the league's integrity and reputation are at stake.

High profile SB winning QB is accused of sexual assault = bad press for the NFL, regardless of actual guilt.


And the fact he didn't reduce his suspension to a level below where he initially said he would is de facto proof that he did something, even though it's not their place to reveal it. You know how much heat they're taking on this and they won't budge?

Wow. Just wow. You realize that claiming that something is "de facto proof" doesn't actually make it so, right? Goodell said 4-6 games. The suspension is 4 games. The bad press for the NFL doesn't go away if Ben is innocent or guilty. Provide evidence that Goodell not reducing the suspension below 4 games is "proof" of anything or kindly stop claiming that it is. Thanks.

P.S. Your turn.

NJ-STEELER
09-04-2010, 07:19 PM
great reply

the only thing i want to add is the suspension was 6 games.

the possibility of it being 4 was if ben complied with the league's tests and changed his behavior...which he did

pfelix73
09-04-2010, 07:27 PM
Case crosed!


:owned
:tt1

The Answer
09-06-2010, 12:26 PM
great reply

the only thing i want to add is the suspension was 6 games.

the possibility of it being 4 was if ben complied with the league's tests and changed his behavior...which he did

And soon he'll be paying out in civil court. Then he'll look guilty in both cases. He was lucky the ho was drunk.

grotonsteel
09-06-2010, 12:36 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":32jmz4am]great reply

the only thing i want to add is the suspension was 6 games.

the possibility of it being 4 was if ben complied with the league's tests and changed his behavior...which he did

And soon he'll be paying out in civil court. Then he'll look guilty in both cases. He was lucky the ho was drunk.[/quote:32jmz4am]


Both cases are different. In first case he accepted he had sex with McNulty.

In Georgia case he denied having sex with that girl.

How will he look guilty in both cases???

Again you don't have "The Answer" for eniparadoxgma??? :lol:

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
09-06-2010, 12:37 PM
You guys are a riot.

I can't believe that anyone is engaging this guy in this discussion. It is obvious that he is here with only one agenda.....to get under your skin.

Like most attention whores.....ignore him and he will go away like a fart in the wind....which is pretty much what he is using as his "proof".

eniparadoxgma
09-06-2010, 01:46 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":1443juwe]great reply

the only thing i want to add is the suspension was 6 games.

the possibility of it being 4 was if ben complied with the league's tests and changed his behavior...which he did

And soon he'll be paying out in civil court. Then he'll look guilty in both cases. He was lucky the ho was drunk.[/quote:1443juwe]

So is that all ya got then?

Looks like it's time to start breaking out the troll pics.

The Answer
09-08-2010, 08:58 AM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":2lxeu7rg]great reply

the only thing i want to add is the suspension was 6 games.

the possibility of it being 4 was if ben complied with the league's tests and changed his behavior...which he did

And soon he'll be paying out in civil court. Then he'll look guilty in both cases. He was lucky the ho was drunk.

So is that all ya got then?

Looks like it's time to start breaking out the troll pics.[/quote:2lxeu7rg]

I explained myself clearly. You on the other hand seemed determined to prove him innocent. Good luck. The NFL investigated, and contrary to popular belief in here, they don't stop people's livelyhoods lightly. With everything so clear like it is in your mind, he'd be starting this Sunday.

And yes, my stats are legitimate. The likelyhood of two different women, in two different time zones, accusing him of a similar crime is damning. Since the NFL has a pretty good idea what it's doing, and you're blindly sticking up for him, I'll maintain my opinion that at the very least, he forced himself on those women, and by today's definition, that's rape. He's very lucky the second one was as drunk as she was. The fact that charges weren't pressed, indicate nothing as far as guilt. In fact, I believe the DA said that he thought he was guilty, but didn't have enough to move forward with the case. Ben's a changed man today because of it. All that because he didn't do anything, huh? You guys want to keep your heads up your behinds, be my guest.

It's over. It really doesn't matter. I didn't attack you guys personally, you did. I don't keep coming in here half cocked, you guys do. I admit I don't know anything other than what's been reported, you guys claim to know everything.

I suggest it's you boys who need to re-think things and start posting like adults.

You're the trolls.

RuthlessBurgher
09-08-2010, 10:08 AM
[quote="The Answer":25cilulp][quote="NJ-STEELER":25cilulp]great reply

the only thing i want to add is the suspension was 6 games.

the possibility of it being 4 was if ben complied with the league's tests and changed his behavior...which he did

And soon he'll be paying out in civil court. Then he'll look guilty in both cases. He was lucky the ho was drunk.

So is that all ya got then?

Looks like it's time to start breaking out the troll pics.[/quote:25cilulp]

I explained myself clearly. You on the other hand seemed determined to prove him innocent. Good luck. The NFL investigated, and contrary to popular belief in here, they don't stop people's livelyhoods lightly. With everything so clear like it is in your mind, he'd be starting this Sunday.

And yes, my stats are legitimate. The likelyhood of two different women, in two different time zones, accusing him of a similar crime is damning. Since the NFL has a pretty good idea what it's doing, and you're blindly sticking up for him, I'll maintain my opinion that at the very least, he forced himself on those women, and by today's definition, that's rape. He's very lucky the second one was as drunk as she was. The fact that charges weren't pressed, indicate nothing as far as guilt. In fact, I believe the DA said that he thought he was guilty, but didn't have enough to move forward with the case. Ben's a changed man today because of it. All that because he didn't do anything, huh? You guys want to keep your heads up your behinds, be my guest.

It's over. It really doesn't matter. I didn't attack you guys personally, you did. I don't keep coming in here half cocked, you guys do. I admit I don't know anything other than what's been reported, you guys claim to know everything.

I suggest it's you boys who need to re-think things and start posting like adults.

You're the trolls.[/quote:25cilulp]

I read that Crash accused you of enticing a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy. There is no evidence to support this (much like there is no evidence to support that any rape took place in Tahoe) but the allegation was made in a public forum nonetheless. I read it on the interwebz, so it must be true.

Now you've called me and my fellow posters here a bunch of half-cocked trolls. I don't like this, so now I'm going to also accuse you of enticing a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy.

Crash and I are in different time zones, but we both accused you of the same thing. That cannot possibly be a coincidence. You obviously must get your kicks by raping boys, eating candy, and then raping puppies too, you sick freak. Two allegations = GUILTY!!!! Mwoo ha ha!!!

Crash
09-08-2010, 12:03 PM
The likelyhood of two different women, in two different time zones, accusing him of a similar crime is damning.

No it isn't when one called him a rapist earlier in the night and one was a Steelers fan who knew about he and Reno.

This was all a setup.

Why didn't DA Bright release her text messages?

The Answer
09-08-2010, 02:08 PM
The likelyhood of two different women, in two different time zones, accusing him of a similar crime is damning.

No it isn't when one called him a rapist earlier in the night and one was a Steelers fan who knew about he and Reno.

This was all a setup.

Why didn't DA Bright release her text messages?

Crash. I have to give you some credit. After a shaky start, you were one of the few to post with class. You still don't agree, but at least you didn't go all childish on me like RuthlessBurgher for example.

I think I'll have to filter my responses to only the grownups. I don't have the time or inclination to deal with blithering idiots.

phillyesq
09-08-2010, 02:22 PM
New discovery: if you add somebody to your "Foe" list, their posts magically disappear. :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
09-08-2010, 02:22 PM
The likelyhood of two different women, in two different time zones, accusing him of a similar crime is damning.

No it isn't when one called him a rapist earlier in the night and one was a Steelers fan who knew about he and Reno.

This was all a setup.

Why didn't DA Bright release her text messages?

Crash. I have to give you some credit. After a shaky start, you were one of the few to post with class. You still don't agree, but at least you didn't go all childish on me like RuthlessBurgher for example.

I think I'll have to filter my responses to only the grownups. I don't have the time or inclination to deal with blithering idiots.

Ben launched into a verbal assault against the first woman that alleged rape, but kept his mouth shut regarding the second allegation.

You, on the other hand, give credit to the first guy who accuses you of enticing a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy, and then calls the second accuser a childish blithering idiot. I'm touched, by the way. It's the best thing anyone has said about be all day. :mrgreen:

eniparadoxgma
09-08-2010, 03:59 PM
I explained myself clearly.

If you mean "decided he was guilty without evidence" then yes, yes you did.


You on the other hand seemed determined to prove him innocent.

Do me a favor and show me where I tried to "prove him innocent".


The NFL investigated, and contrary to popular belief in here, they don't stop people's livelyhoods lightly. With everything so clear like it is in your mind, he'd be starting this Sunday.

Dude, I'll go ahead and quote this again for you since you seem determined to ignore it.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pitt ... mes-090310 (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pittsburgh-Steelers-QB-Ben-Roethlisberger-suspension-reduced-to-four-games-090310)


Roethlisberger is the first player suspended by Goodell under the NFL's personal conduct policy who was not arrested, charged with or convicted of a crime. However, Goodell said in April the policy allows him to impose such a penalty when the league's integrity and reputation are at stake.

Numerous news sources have stated that the reason for the suspension is the bad press, and nothing more. Now that's called backing up a claim with facts and/or evidence. I'm still waiting on you to do something even remotely similar.



And yes, my stats are legitimate. The likelyhood of two different women, in two different time zones, accusing him of a similar crime is damning. Since the NFL has a pretty good idea what it's doing, and you're blindly sticking up for him, I'll maintain my opinion that at the very least, he forced himself on those women, and by today's definition, that's rape. He's very lucky the second one was as drunk as she was. The fact that charges weren't pressed, indicate nothing as far as guilt. In fact, I believe the DA said that he thought he was guilty, but didn't have enough to move forward with the case. Ben's a changed man today because of it. All that because he didn't do anything, huh? You guys want to keep your heads up your behinds, be my guest.

The italicized cracks me up. "At the very least", eh? The bolded would require some kind of proof and/or evidence. I'll wait for you to cite proof. And I've already stated numerous times that he jeopardized his career to get some strange in a bar bathroom. That's worthy of him needing to change by itself.


It's over. It really doesn't matter. I didn't attack you guys personally, you did. I don't keep coming in here half cocked, you guys do. I admit I don't know anything other than what's been reported, you guys claim to know everything.

1. I don't recall attacking you personally. Feel free to point that out for me.
2. What have I said that was "half cocked"? I'll wait for you to point that out for me.
3. You don't know anything other than what's been reported but you assume he forced himself on two women without any evidence? I'm pretty sure that's the definition of half cocked.
4. When did I claim to "know everything"? Feel free to point that out for me as well. I'll wait.


I suggest it's you boys who need to re-think things and start posting like adults.

You're the trolls.

I went through all of your so-called "points" and responded to them. That's what a dialogue is all about. You have failed to provide any kind of retort for anything I have said. I suggest you learn how a dialogue works and actually attempt to respond to the things I've said if you want to "post like an adult". I'll be waiting.

The Answer
09-08-2010, 08:49 PM
New discovery: if you add somebody to your "Foe" list, their posts magically disappear. :lol:

What's really cool about it is that you can put everyone who doesn't agree with you in the Foe list. Then you can sit around in bliss all day, in a big circle jerk, slapping each other on the back. Ahh. What you would have given for a foe list when you were growing up, huh? Oh, wait a minute. You still are.

The Answer
09-08-2010, 08:51 PM
Ben launched into a verbal assault against the first woman that alleged rape, but kept his mouth shut regarding the second allegation.

You, on the other hand, give credit to the first guy who accuses you of enticing a 10 year old boy to visit your house with a bag of candy and a puppy, and then calls the second accuser a childish blithering idiot. I'm touched, by the way. It's the best thing anyone has said about be all day. :mrgreen:

That's alot of words to say very little. But a very astute observation to say the least. I'll be mom is proud of you, huh?

Crash, while starting off like a jerk, decided to take the high road the rest of the thread. But with no shortage of genius to pick up the slack, it didn't take long for a sub to step in.

The Answer
09-08-2010, 08:58 PM
Let's skip all the bull****, and get to the meat.




3. You don't know anything other than what's been reported but you assume he forced himself on two women without any evidence? I'm pretty sure that's the definition of half cocked.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand the concept of a discussion forum. I got a suprise for you Yahoo Serious. No one knows what happened in that rest room but Ben and the ho. Believe it or not, not even you. Can you sleep now? But IMO, based on everything I've outlined in this thead, I believe he at the very least forced himself on a woman who for whatever reason, didn't want him to at that moment. All his actions, the NFL's actions, the woman's actions, and yes, even the DA's comments when he decided not to press charges, lead me to believe that. You decide to insert your head in the sand, that is your perogative. That's how this thing works. Live with it. Hey. Tweedle Dumb figured out how to use the Foe thing. Maybe it'd be less stressful for you to PM him for instructions.

Crash
09-08-2010, 09:02 PM
But IMO, based on everything I've outlined in this thead, I believe he at the very least forced himself on a woman who for whatever reason, didn't want him to at that moment. All his actions, the NFL's actions, the woman's actions, and yes, even the DA's comments when he decided not to press charges, lead me to believe that.

What actions were those?

No physical evidence and DA Bright stating he didn't even have enough to warrant an arrest of him?

Ben's suspension was about race. Did you hear Mort last night?

eniparadoxgma
09-08-2010, 09:02 PM
Let's skip all the bad word, and get to the meat.




3. You don't know anything other than what's been reported but you assume he forced himself on two women without any evidence? I'm pretty sure that's the definition of half cocked.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand the concept of a discussion forum. I got a suprise for you Yahoo Serious. No one knows what happened in that rest room but Ben and the ho. Believe it or not, not even you. Can you sleep now? But IMO, based on everything I've outlined in this thead, I believe he at the very least forced himself on a woman who for whatever reason, didn't want him to at that moment. All his actions, the NFL's actions, the woman's actions, and yes, even the DA's comments when he decided not to press charges, lead me to believe that. You decide to insert your head in the sand, that is your perogative. That's how this thing works. Live with it. Hey. Tweedle Dumb figured out how to use the Foe thing. Maybe it'd be less stressful for you to PM him for instructions.



The "meat" is something I'm sure you're familiar with on all of your night long shifts on that corner down by the bus station. See, I can throw out insults too!

I would call you a troll but I think you're just another chucklehead who likes to think themselves "objective" about things and likes to spout meaningless drivel about having a "dialogue" but when push comes to shove you haven't got a goddamn thing to say.

*I* responded to every single one of your "points". Since you are unable to do the same I will now leave you to your idiotic assumptions.

Peace.

feltdizz
09-08-2010, 09:32 PM
But IMO, based on everything I've outlined in this thead, I believe he at the very least forced himself on a woman who for whatever reason, didn't want him to at that moment. All his actions, the NFL's actions, the woman's actions, and yes, even the DA's comments when he decided not to press charges, lead me to believe that.

What actions were those?

No physical evidence and DA Bright stating he didn't even have enough to warrant an arrest of him?

Ben's suspension was about race. Did you hear Mort last night?

Who cares about Mort. He is just another mouth on TV.

Crash
09-08-2010, 10:57 PM
But IMO, based on everything I've outlined in this thead, I believe he at the very least forced himself on a woman who for whatever reason, didn't want him to at that moment. All his actions, the NFL's actions, the woman's actions, and yes, even the DA's comments when he decided not to press charges, lead me to believe that.

What actions were those?

No physical evidence and DA Bright stating he didn't even have enough to warrant an arrest of him?

Ben's suspension was about race. Did you hear Mort last night?

Who cares about Mort. He is just another mouth on TV.

Who's a lot closer to NFL players than most of us here.

Anyone with a brain knows Goodell caved to racial pressure.

The Answer
09-09-2010, 07:38 AM
Crash, I have heard the theory a couple times about Goodell coming down harder on Ben because he's white, and with the glut of black players getting is **** recently, Goodell couldn't pass up an opportunity to make an example of Ben. But I don't think you can take the seriousness of depriving someone of their livelyhood so lightly. If Goodell suspends Ben for even one game without merit, Ben's attorneys could have a field day with him. Number 1, they could appeal and then Ben could have played until he's proven guilty. This is a court of law outside the NFL. You can't deprive people of working for no reason. And what Ben does is considered work.

At the very least, you can bet your bottom dollar that Ben's behavior was outside the boundries of their code of conduct, to the extent that he was suspended for 4 games. You can count on that. And rather than appeal the suspension, Ben finds God. Then from that point, it could be anything up to forcible rape. What he did is somewhere in between most likely. I don't think he held a knife to the woman's throat, but when they say no, it means no.

And when it happens twice, you have to conclude that where's there's smoke, there's fire.

I wouldn't get too excited about him reducing the sentence from 6 yo 4 games. He said all along that if Ben complied with all the mandates that he would do that. And both sides seem to be cooperating in this. Teammates are commenting on the "changed" Ben. What did he change from if he's perfectly innocent?

As I've stated so many times in this thread, I wasn't there, so I only have common sense, and what's been reported to go on. Wonder why that is so elusive to these morons?

stlrz d
09-09-2010, 08:46 AM
Time to pull the plug on the agenda poster, HeHateMe.

Slapstick
09-09-2010, 08:59 AM
Crash, I have heard the theory a couple times about Goodell coming down harder on Ben because he's white, and with the glut of black players getting is bad word recently, Goodell couldn't pass up an opportunity to make an example of Ben. But I don't think you can take the seriousness of depriving someone of their livelyhood so lightly. If Goodell suspends Ben for even one game without merit, Ben's attorneys could have a field day with him.

The "merit" was the amount of bad press generated by the media...

Apparently, a player can commit actual crimes, but they are safe as long as it doesn't dominate the headlines...

Crash
09-09-2010, 10:51 AM
And when it happens twice, you have to conclude that where's there's smoke, there's fire.

Not when one of Miss DTF's friends was a Steelers fan and knew about Reno. Not when another friend of Miss DTF called him a rapist earlier in the night.

Do you REALLY believe that mere minutes after being called a rapist that Ben tried to commit one? Use your head.

Like JD Silver's piece in the PG stated. Miss DTF and Family DTF stopped talking to police once they requested DNA samples from inside her mouth.

You can draw you're own conclusions as to why.

eniparadoxgma
09-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Time to pull the plug on the agenda poster, HeHateMe.

Agreed. I gave it a chance. It failed utterly.

The Answer
09-10-2010, 03:38 AM
Crash, I have heard the theory a couple times about Goodell coming down harder on Ben because he's white, and with the glut of black players getting is bad word recently, Goodell couldn't pass up an opportunity to make an example of Ben. But I don't think you can take the seriousness of depriving someone of their livelyhood so lightly. If Goodell suspends Ben for even one game without merit, Ben's attorneys could have a field day with him.

The "merit" was the amount of bad press generated by the media...

Apparently, a player can commit actual crimes, but they are safe as long as it doesn't dominate the headlines...

I don't know. I'd like to believe they aren't that shallow. As I said earlier, the NFL has their own investigators. Probably more competent than the police. I do think the NFL image is foremost in their minds, but a suspension brings alot of press also. Especially this one.

Slapstick
09-10-2010, 08:19 AM
I don't know. I'd like to believe they aren't that shallow. As I said earlier, the NFL has their own investigators. Probably more competent than the police. I do think the NFL image is foremost in their minds, but a suspension brings alot of press also. Especially this one.

I can't agree...

If the NFL has their own investigators that are more competent than the police, what would the consequences be to the NFL if it were discovered by the general public that their investigators found actual evidence of a crime committed but DID NOT turn that evidence over to the police?

Also, what about cases where the evidence is publicly available (ie. Vince Young's physical altercation, DUI cases, etc.) and the NFL investigators are not required, yet no suspension is issued? Is driving under the influence of alcohol condoned by the NFL? Would that not be a clear violation of the substance abuse and/or personal conduct policy?

The NFL image is foremost in Goodell's mind...and he IS that shallow...

Crash
09-10-2010, 10:56 AM
As I said earlier, the NFL has their own investigators.

And if they would have found out that Ben committed either rape? It wouldn't be four games. It would be at least a year.

If Ben was black and uncharged? No suspension.

Brandon Underwood, Shaun Rogers, and Eric Foster are proof of this.

Slapstick
09-10-2010, 11:31 AM
As I said earlier, the NFL has their own investigators.

And if they would have found out that Ben committed either rape? It wouldn't be four games. It would be at least a year.

They would have given the evidence to police and Ben would have been charged...

But, they couldn't...because, based on the evidence, he didn't...

Crash
09-10-2010, 11:33 AM
As I said earlier, the NFL has their own investigators.

And if they would have found out that Ben committed either rape? It wouldn't be four games. It would be at least a year.

They would have given the evidence to police and Ben would have been charged...

But, they couldn't...because, based on the evidence, he didn't...

Yep. They would be doing their civic duty, and turn him in.

And even if they didn't and they tried to "protect him" they wouldn't have reduced it down to four games.

NKySteeler
09-10-2010, 04:46 PM
I find this thread topic contradictory... Tomlin was interviewed live on the "Sirius NFL Blitz" this past Tuesday (Sept 7th), and said Ben could have no contact with anyone within the Steelers organization, no visits to the UPMC complex, no viewing of gameplans, no nothing... He went on to state that Ben would not be seen till the suspension was over...

Slapstick
09-10-2010, 06:56 PM
I find this thread topic contradictory... Tomlin was interviewed live on the "Sirius NFL Blitz" this past Tuesday (Sept 7th), and said Ben could have no contact with anyone within the Steelers organization, no visits to the UPMC complex, no viewing of gameplans, no nothing... He went on to state that Ben would not be seen till the suspension was over...

You are correct...

The thread started with this:


Sorta.....

Per ESPN, and I quote:

On a suspension of less than one year, the player is allowed to be at the team facility and participate in team activities other than practice, at the club's discretion, according to a league spokesman. The rule was changed several years ago.

It's widely assumed that suspended players can't be around their team. Not so. You learn something every day.

His point was that, for some reason, Ben has been made an exception...