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View Full Version : Art II torpedoes 2010 season before it starts



Oviedo
07-28-2010, 08:35 AM
As far as I'm concerned if we struggle this season, especially early, it is totally on the Art Rooney II. He threw Ben under the bus so Goodell could get the heat taken off him by crucifying a high profile white player on the alter of the sports media.

It has become clear that Goodell is deliberating turning a deaf ear to the spate of trangressions that have occurred by numerous other players. He was not setting a standard with Ben he was taking the heat off himself because of criticism he had that he was going after only black players and ART II was a willing accomplice.

Do you think Jerry Jones would have helped throw Tony Romo under the bus? Robert Kraft throw Brady under the bus? Ben screwed up and the team should have handled it but Goodell wanted to deal with it to nail a high profile white player. No charges only accusations. He has never handed out punishment for that before and he ignores real charges.

Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 09:26 AM
Ben is not Jesus. ben made it easy for Goodell to crucify him.

This season hasn't even started and its over? Already? What if we start out 4-0?

Its time to stop whining and man up.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 09:30 AM
Ben is not Jesus. ben made it easy for Goodell to crucify him.

This season hasn't even started and its over? Already? What if we start out 4-0?

Its time to stop whining and man up.

It's throwing out topic for discussion. That is what this board is for. "Man up" on a message board..please.

steelblood
07-28-2010, 09:34 AM
The Rooney family has made some great decisions over the course of the last 40 years. The Rooneys don't believe in a win at all costs attitude and try to maintain some standards of behavior and decency. Sometimes these standards conflict with putting together a winning football team. I don't like every decision, but I certainly support the Rooney's style of leadership and the standard of character and behavior they expect from their staff and players.

Iron Shiek
07-28-2010, 09:43 AM
I respectfully disagree Oviedo. Ben gave the team, the league and himself no choice. Granted I don't agree with the severity of the punishment being more severe than others who actually have been convicted of crimes, but these days, public perception is more of a factor and everyone wanted to show they were "handling" the problem. It $hit, but I don't think Rooney II is solely to blame (and when I say blame, I'm not expecting the season to be a failure and will not come back later and point to any of this offseason stuff as a reason for a bad season should it occur).

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 09:49 AM
As far as I'm concerned if we struggle this season, especially early, it is totally on the Art Rooney II. He threw Ben under the bus so Goodell could get the heat taken off him by crucifying a high profile white player on the alter of the sports media.

It has become clear that Goodell is deliberating turning a deaf ear to the spate of trangressions that have occurred by numerous other players. He was not setting a standard with Ben he was taking the heat off himself because of criticism he had that he was going after only black players and ART II was a willing accomplice.

Do you think Jerry Jones would have helped throw Tony Romo under the bus? Robert Kraft throw Brady under the bus? Ben screwed up and the team should have handled it but Goodell wanted to deal with it to nail a high profile white player. No charges only accusations. He has never handed out punishment for that before and he ignores real charges.

Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.

IMO Art Rooney II screwed Big Ben big time and put Steelers in a big fix with uncertainty over the ban period.

I think he did the same thing to Bill Cowher. No wonder Bill Cowher tanked his last season and did not care to say even thank you to Art Rooney II.

Djfan
07-28-2010, 09:51 AM
I think he did the same thing to Bill Cowher. No wonder Bill Cowher tanked his last season and did not care to say even thank you to Art Rooney II.


What did he do to Cowher?

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 09:55 AM
The Rooney family has made some great decisions over the course of the last 40 years. The Rooneys don't believe in a win at all costs attitude and try to maintain some standards of behavior and decency. Sometimes these standards conflict with putting together a winning football team. I don't like every decision, but I certainly support the Rooney's style of leadership and the standard of character and behavior they expect from their staff and players.

Well you can say that about Art and Dan Rooney. But i don't think you can say that about Art Rooney II.

If they really care about standard of character then they should have shipped Big Ben and James Harrison. Santonio was traded because maybe they thought he is replaceable. Its difficult to replace DMVP and Franchise QB.

Bring back Dan Rooney.

Shawn
07-28-2010, 10:04 AM
II was protecting the very thing that is supposed to make the Steelers organization different. He was sending a message that no one player is above the organization. They traded Holmes. The way I see it...Ben got off very lucky.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-28-2010, 10:06 AM
The unfortunate part is the hysteria caused by some little group of nobodies in Nowheresville GA.

First of all, on the media radar sexual assault ranks high up there on the "lets blow things wide open" meter. So I can't say it is unusual for this to be a much bigger deal than a couple of punches thrown in a nightclub.

In today's media driven society, high profile people are guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. So before you even have Rooney and Goodell enter the picture you have Ben being tried and convicted of a heinous rape throughout the country - without charges, without proof, and all done within days of the alleged incident. White media, black media - who knows, who cares? There was national hysteria.

Goodell and Rooney were caught in a whirlwind and were proactive in their actions - like them or not. The punishment was not for what may have actually happened, it was because of the media frenzy and the national attention. I'm not agreeing with their actions, just stating what I believe to be the facts.

Time has shown that the alleged rape was a fabrication. Conflicting stories, no DNA even requested, lies upon lies. And this entire situation was caused by 4 little schoolgirls who followed him around and made up a story.

Man, can't wait for that ESPN Films/NFL Network special feature to come out. :roll:

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 10:06 AM
I think he did the same thing to Bill Cowher. No wonder Bill Cowher tanked his last season and did not care to say even thank you to Art Rooney II.

What did he do to Cowher?

Well he might have left Bill Cowher high and dry on his extension. Maybe Art Rooney II behavior is rubbing people in a wrong way.

Something was definitely wrong between AR II and Bill. And i really hope players don't start thinking that Art Rooney II does not care about them.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 10:07 AM
I respectfully disagree Oviedo. Ben gave the team, the league and himself no choice. Granted I don't agree with the severity of the punishment being more severe than others who actually have been convicted of crimes, but these days, public perception is more of a factor and everyone wanted to show they were "handling" the problem. It $hit, but I don't think Rooney II is solely to blame (and when I say blame, I'm not expecting the season to be a failure and will not come back later and point to any of this offseason stuff as a reason for a bad season should it occur).

I also originally agree with A SUSPENSION but not THE SUSPENSION. What has changed is that Goodell has not been consistent or even active since he nailed Ben. There have been much more severe incidents recently that are being ignored, e.g. a 250lb+ NFL QB punching someone and having it on video tape because he made fun of your college team. How can that be ignored? A guy as big as Vince Young can severely injure someone but Goodell has ignored it and Young will get nothing in the way of punishment.

proudpittsburgher
07-28-2010, 10:09 AM
IMO Art Rooney II screwed Big Ben big time and put Steelers in a big fix with uncertainty over the ban period.

I don't know AR2 well enough to comment on him in this regard, but Ben did the screwing, both literally and figuratively. And he did it to both himself and the team. Without his actions, setting aside whether he is guilty or not guilty but just putting himself in bad situations over and over again, he forced the Steelers to act too quickly and use a draft pick on Leftwich, made the Steelers front page news nationwide for all of the wrong reasons, and put our 2010 season in jeopardy before training camp started. How anyone thinks AR2 screwed Ben here is beyond me.

aggiebones
07-28-2010, 10:11 AM
The Steelers curry favors from the league at will.
When you have that ability, you MUST police yourself.

Goodell would not hesitate with Romo and wouldn't care what Jones thinks.

Your analogy is bad and you are way off on your thoughts.

Ben deserves 4 games and Ben got 4 games.

You also forget that Art II would have suspended Ben himself, but it would have been more cumbersome and the players association could have fought it.
Art II WANTED Ben suspended and he deserved it. He puppetted Goodell on this as he will continue to do.

Think your things out logically before you try to match your grasp of a pro football situation over the Rooneys.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 10:17 AM
Sorry O, I just think this discussion has happened 20 times already.

Ben put himself in a position that the league felt would hurt their money. Ben doesn't make 100 mill without the help of fans and these shrewd businessmen. The billionaire may have sold Ben to the highest bidder if he was in charge. You never know...

They acted to save face, money and image. Say what you want but the devil in GA happened at the slowest time in the sport media cycle and right before the draft.

Ben accepted it. If it is that frustrating fans can watch soccer or canadian football.

Steelers>NFL
07-28-2010, 10:22 AM
IMO Art Rooney II screwed Big Ben big time and put Steelers in a big fix with uncertainty over the ban period.

I don't know AR2 well enough to comment on him in this regard, but Ben did the screwing, both literally and figuratively. And he did it to both himself and the team. Without his actions, setting aside whether he is guilty or not guilty but just putting himself in bad situations over and over again, he forced the Steelers to act too quickly and use a draft pick on Leftwich, made the Steelers front page news nationwide for all of the wrong reasons, and put our 2010 season in jeopardy before training camp started. How anyone thinks AR2 screwed Ben here is beyond me.
I share your comments and thoughts as well.
If AR2 really wanted to screw things up, he would have traded Ben to the highest bidder
prior to the draft. And it could have been just a 2nd rounder. Because Ben is considered
a high risk per say for a 1st round pick.
Ben screwed things up going into this season. And Ben only!
The Steelers FO reacted the best way they could given the short time involved at that time.
Like it or not, the Steelers are a GREAT organization. If people don't like it, then go root for the Raiders, Cowgirls, Deadskins, Stains, Bungholes... You get the picture?

TallyStiller
07-28-2010, 10:37 AM
Art II was as appalled as many of the team's fans were by Ben's behavior in this instance, as well as frustrated by Ben's inability to keep himself out of the headlines. The Rooneys are a very traditional family with christian morals - one reason why they've always run a franchise that has been very different from many of the others in the league... certainly this doesn't entirely explain what happened, but it plays a role. Jerry wouldn't throw Tony Romo out to the wolves, so to speak, because he couldn't care less about the moral aspect of what was going on.

That said, there's more to it. Christian means a LOT more than condemning a behavior - in fact, if you're doing it right, that should be the least of it. Ben's life appeared to be careening out of control, and allowing the suspension, even working with the league to implement it, could help to straighten out the young man's life.

Straightening out his life, in turn, helps not only him, but the team's 100 million dollar investment in a player who we expect will help us compete for several more rings in years to come, so it certainly makes sense from a business standpoint as well... especially from a franchise that did so precious little to shield it's OTHER superstar quarterback from the constant media and fan firestorm of "too dumb to play the position". I like to think the Rooneys learned from that experience and are trying to do right by themselves, the franchise AND the player here, and that maybe an approach of sacrificing short term gain for longer term goals may have been the right way to go.

Djfan
07-28-2010, 10:39 AM
Ben screwed things up by his partying like an idiot, and left himself open for a punishment (or not) that would be decided by someone, not him.

The punishment is the debate IMO. As I see it, the fans and team are paying too high a price, which is a punishment that is not commensurate with the "crimes" of of other NFL pros around him.

Ben deserved it? Fair enough. But, the price paid by others, the inconsistencies other NFL players get treated with, the pandering to media, the witch hunt like atmosphere around the event, and the division of opinion from the more vocal players past and present, are all damages that will hurt our season.

That is more than a message to Ben. That is an in-your-face to the fan base and organization. Don't get why Rooney sits for this.

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 10:40 AM
The Steelers curry favors from the league at will.
When you have that ability, you MUST police yourself.

I am not sure what favors Steelers have got at will?? They could not even save the ownership.

Goodell would not hesitate with Romo and wouldn't care what Jones thinks.

I don't think so. Goodell cannot take on Jones and Krafts of the league. No way. With CBA round the corner he simply cannot make Jones and Kraft angry. If Bud Adams wanted Young to be punished Goodell would have punished him. But that was not the case. So yes Goodell does care about the owners opinion.


Ben deserves 4 games and Ben got 4 games.
Not sure why Ben deserves 4 games for an accusation. Infact Ben got 6 games. Convicted criminals and people who cheat with banned substance get away easy in NFL. Goodell had no business of punishing Big Ben for 6 games


You also forget that Art II would have suspended Ben himself, but it would have been more cumbersome and the players association could have fought it.Art II WANTED Ben suspended and he deserved it. He puppetted Goodell on this as he will continue to do.

Art Rooney should have punished Big Ben for 2 games max and put some financial fine on him.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 10:44 AM
Ben screwed things up by his partying like an idiot, and left himself open for a punishment (or not) that would be decided by someone, not him.

The punishment is the debate IMO. As I see it, the fans and team are paying too high a price, which is a punishment that is not commensurate with the "crimes" of of other NFL pros around him.

Ben deserved it? Fair enough. But, the price paid by others, the inconsistencies other NFL players get treated with, the pandering to media, the witch hunt like atmosphere around the event, and the division of opinion from the more vocal players past and present, are all damages that will hurt our season.

That is more than a message to Ben. That is an in-your-face to the fan base and organization. Don't get why Rooney sits for this.

You echo my comments exactly. No one has ever said that Ben did not deserve punishment the issue is the magnitude and the effect on the team. It did become a "witch hunt" and all indications are that action may have been taken too quickly to make it go away. Goodell over reacted.

IMO the issue is just magnified by the lack of action on more recent and more serious incidents because the media witch hunt isn't occurring. As commish, Goodell should not require a media witch hunt to enforce standards.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 10:55 AM
I also think Vince Young punching a guy at a strip club isn't nearly as serious when looking at it from a media PR angle.

How much news did it get? Do women so "oh no its vince young"

For months all I heard from women were "ben is a scumbag rapist" that is way more severe IMO. Not saying Ben is a rapist but the perception was terrible.

Djfan
07-28-2010, 10:58 AM
IMO the issue is just magnified by the lack of action on more recent and more serious incidents because the media witch hunt isn't occurring. As commish, Goodell should not require a media witch hunt to enforce standards.

Except for the fact that he is a putz.

He has mishandled all of the discipline IMO. From spygate up to the current issues, he has been inconsistent, secretive, and arbitrary.

I hope he doesn't screw the pooch regarding the upcoming union negotiations. I bet he does, though.

What does Rooney see in this guy? Is it the fact that Rooney supported him, so he has to go all-in with Goodell? I just don't get it.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 11:09 AM
How did Goodell act too quickly? The firestorm ended right after the suspension. Cops were fired over this. Tapes were erased. Cameras were scrubbed.

If Goodell sits patiently and waits the media would have really went into high gear. We had to put a kid with a disability on the stage at the draft to quiet the crowd from screaming "she said no"

It would have been chaos if goodell and art didn't act swiftly.

People keep talking about being guilty of a crime. Its not about guilt its about perception and protecting an investment.

TallyStiller
07-28-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm of the belief that Rooney let the commish do some of his dirty work for him, that far from the suspension being an "in your face" that he supported it... saved him from having to do it himself and justify it to the "just win baby" crowd amongst his own fan base, who, like some posters here have said, don't get that we're not the Raiders. There's a reason why "just win baby" was Al Davis' slogan, and why we were his fiercest rival. There was more to it than just Lombardis - it was almost a morality play, light vs. dark, good vs. evil played out in shoulder pads. The Rooneys aren't going to stand for the organizational image they've built for 75 years being destroyed by one guy, no matter who he is or how many rings he's brought them... but they're trying to do right by him and the fans too. 4 games will be a decent common ground.

Is it inconsistent with other punishments? Absolutely... Vince Young gets nothing for punching a guy in the face. Santonio goes away for 4 games for smoking dope. Leonard Little gets a year for killing somebody, Michael Vick has to work his way out of a lifetime ban for dogfighting. No rhyme or reason.

I'm just glad he'll be able to play, and hope he finds a few headlines for doing the RIGHT stuff by February 2011. He can write his own story - even though winning games has nothing to do with off field character, you can be sure that if the Steelers have an outstanding season, the "Ben redeemed" yarns will be everywhere in the press, and this'll all be forgotten.

Djfan
07-28-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm just glad he'll be able to play, and hope he finds a few headlines for doing the RIGHT stuff by February 2011. He can write his own story - even though winning games has nothing to do with off field character, you can be sure that if the Steelers have an outstanding season, the "Ben redeemed" yarns will be everywhere in the press, and this'll all be forgotten.


There is a lot to be said for this stance. It is what it is. Ben will come back rested and have something to prove.

It will be fine. If we come out of his suspension at .500 the rest of the division needs to be afraid.

Crash
07-28-2010, 11:15 AM
II was protecting the very thing that is supposed to make the Steelers organization different. He was sending a message that no one player is above the organization. They traded Holmes. The way I see it...Ben got off very lucky.

You mean they traded Holmes AFTER three arrests and two failed drug tests.

They run this team the same way most teams do.

Ignore the words and look at FACTS.

MaxAMillion
07-28-2010, 11:22 AM
As far as I'm concerned if we struggle this season, especially early, it is totally on the Art Rooney II. He threw Ben under the bus so Goodell could get the heat taken off him by crucifying a high profile white player on the alter of the sports media.

It has become clear that Goodell is deliberating turning a deaf ear to the spate of trangressions that have occurred by numerous other players. He was not setting a standard with Ben he was taking the heat off himself because of criticism he had that he was going after only black players and ART II was a willing accomplice.

Do you think Jerry Jones would have helped throw Tony Romo under the bus? Robert Kraft throw Brady under the bus? Ben screwed up and the team should have handled it but Goodell wanted to deal with it to nail a high profile white player. No charges only accusations. He has never handed out punishment for that before and he ignores real charges.

Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.

You are speaking the truth about Baby Rooney. Steeler fans don't want to hear it but it is true. Baby Rooney's moral high ground stance has doomed this team to third place. He did not stand up for Ben and he forced the team to trade Holmes. These moves have hurt the Steelers team this year badly. I also think that Art Rooney would have voiced his displeasure in a different way rather than undermining the coach publically.

Baby Rooney is nothing like his father. This is a third place team this year. Of course Baby Rooney will just blame the lack of a running game for all the problems.

Crash
07-28-2010, 11:24 AM
How did Goodell act too quickly? The firestorm ended right after the suspension. Cops were fired over this. Tapes were erased. Cameras were scrubbed.

Compared to other "cases" he did act too quickly.

Has Cedric Benson and his three arrests met Goodell yet?

The cop in Georgia was fired for comments he made about the accuser. Which, when you look at the tapes, and the evidence, he appears to have been correct when he dismissed her version of the crime.

The tapes were erased, AFTER the local police had viewed them (a fact that goes un-reported by most media outlets).

Here are the timelines for the other two high profile NFL incidents.

This was dug up by me because on March 28 because media wanted Ben "dealt with" by Goodell because he dealt with Vick and Pac Man "swiftly".

50 DAYS::::.. Adam Pacman: Incident 2/19/2007 Suspended 4/10/2007
121 DAYS:::. Michael Vick: Incident 4/25/2007 Suspended 8/24/2007
23 DAYS:::... Ben Roethlisberger: Incident 3/5/2010-

They didn't want Ben treated like Vick and Pac Man. They wanted him treated WORSE.

And guess what? He was.

pfelix73
07-28-2010, 11:35 AM
I never really cared for ARII myself. I agree that Ben got a raw deal as well. The new NFL is going down a path I don't like. Learned a good bit watching and listening to Ryan Clark on 1st and ten last week about how the ownership is trying to control everything. Not good.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 11:42 AM
How did Goodell act too quickly? The firestorm ended right after the suspension. Cops were fired over this. Tapes were erased. Cameras were scrubbed.

Compared to other "cases" he did act too quickly.

Has Cedric Benson and his three arrests met Goodell yet?

The cop in Georgia was fired for comments he made about the accuser. Which, when you look at the tapes, and the evidence, he appears to have been correct when he dismissed her version of the crime.

The tapes were erased, AFTER the local police had viewed them (a fact that goes un-reported by most media outlets).

Here are the timelines for the other two high profile NFL incidents.

This was dug up by me because on March 28 because media wanted Ben "dealt with" by Goodell because he dealt with Vick and Pac Man "swiftly".

50 DAYS::::.. Adam Pacman: Incident 2/19/2007 Suspended 4/10/2007
121 DAYS:::. Michael Vick: Incident 4/25/2007 Suspended 8/24/2007
23 DAYS:::... Ben Roethlisberger: Incident 3/5/2010-

They didn't want Ben treated like Vick and Pac Man. They wanted him treated WORSE.

And guess what? He was.

Here are a few more for you:

Vince Young-Assault-June 13th, 2010-45 days and counting with no action

Cedric Benson-Assault-June 29th, 2010-29 days and counting with no action

Phil Merling-Battery- May 27th, 2010-60 days and counting with no action

What is different with these players?????????

Sugar
07-28-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't think that the season is necisarrily torpedoed. It will be harder to win and I expect a 1-3 start. That said I also hope that 11-5 or 10-6 is good enough to make the playoffs and that we have a more rested and in the zone Ben at that point.

No revenge would be better for Ben than being able to claim that SB MVP!

:tt2

Shawn
07-28-2010, 12:23 PM
II was protecting the very thing that is supposed to make the Steelers organization different. He was sending a message that no one player is above the organization. They traded Holmes. The way I see it...Ben got off very lucky.

You mean they traded Holmes AFTER three arrests and two failed drug tests.

They run this team the same way most teams do.

Ignore the words and look at FACTS.

So, you can only drag a team's name through the mud, put the Steelers at risk and yourself at risk with arrests? Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh. Whether he is a criminal is irrelevant at this point. Hopefully, these events have finally gotten it through Ben's thick skull that he needs to listen to those around him. Ya know the guys that have been there and done that. Guys like Bettis and Bradshaw. Ben needs to stay off the bikes, and out of the clubs. He needs to settle down and date girls in his league. He needs to lay off the booze. While he might not be a criminal he has sure acted childishly. I don't judge Ben beyond the fact that it effects the team. As a fan, I want him around. I just know that the Steelers won't give him another chance.

cruzer8
07-28-2010, 12:28 PM
II was protecting the very thing that is supposed to make the Steelers organization different. He was sending a message that no one player is above the organization. They traded Holmes. The way I see it...Ben got off very lucky.

You mean they traded Holmes AFTER three arrests and two failed drug tests.

They run this team the same way most teams do.

Ignore the words and look at FACTS.

So, you can only drag a team's name through the mud, put the Steelers at risk and yourself at risk with arrests? Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh. Whether he is a criminal is irrelevant at this point. Hopefully, these events have finally gotten it through Ben's thick skull that he needs to listen to those around him. Ya know the guys that have been there and done that. Guys like Bettis and Bradshaw. Ben needs to stay off the bikes, and out of the clubs. He needs to settle down and date girls in his league. He needs to lay off the booze. While he might not be a criminal he has sure acted childishly. I don't judge Ben beyond the fact that it effects the team. As a fan, I want him around. I just know that the Steelers won't give him another chance.

Another one who reads tabloid headlines and believes them without looking at all the facts.

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 12:47 PM
II was protecting the very thing that is supposed to make the Steelers organization different. He was sending a message that no one player is above the organization. They traded Holmes. The way I see it...Ben got off very lucky.

You mean they traded Holmes AFTER three arrests and two failed drug tests.

They run this team the same way most teams do.

Ignore the words and look at FACTS.

So, you can only drag a team's name through the mud, put the Steelers at risk and yourself at risk with arrests? Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh. Whether he is a criminal is irrelevant at this point. Hopefully, these events have finally gotten it through Ben's thick skull that he needs to listen to those around him. Ya know the guys that have been there and done that. Guys like Bettis and Bradshaw. Ben needs to stay off the bikes, and out of the clubs. He needs to settle down and date girls in his league. He needs to lay off the booze. While he might not be a criminal he has sure acted childishly. I don't judge Ben beyond the fact that it effects the team. As a fan, I want him around. I just know that the Steelers won't give him another chance.


Layoff booze?? Are you saying he should never touch alcohol in his life. Is Big Ben alcoholic??? I don't think so. Again thats my opinion that he is not alcoholic since i don't know Big Ben in real life.

If he is alcoholic then he needs to go into rehab.

Also why should people say Ben need to settle down??? He may not be ready for marriage.Maybe he has not found the right one. You don't marry or have a girlfriend for the sake of it.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 12:48 PM
How did Goodell act too quickly? The firestorm ended right after the suspension. Cops were fired over this. Tapes were erased. Cameras were scrubbed.

Compared to other "cases" he did act too quickly.

Has Cedric Benson and his three arrests met Goodell yet?

The cop in Georgia was fired for comments he made about the accuser. Which, when you look at the tapes, and the evidence, he appears to have been correct when he dismissed her version of the crime.

The tapes were erased, AFTER the local police had viewed them (a fact that goes un-reported by most media outlets).

Here are the timelines for the other two high profile NFL incidents.

This was dug up by me because on March 28 because media wanted Ben "dealt with" by Goodell because he dealt with Vick and Pac Man "swiftly".

50 DAYS::::.. Adam Pacman: Incident 2/19/2007 Suspended 4/10/2007
121 DAYS:::. Michael Vick: Incident 4/25/2007 Suspended 8/24/2007
23 DAYS:::... Ben Roethlisberger: Incident 3/5/2010-

They didn't want Ben treated like Vick and Pac Man. They wanted him treated WORSE.

And guess what? He was.

Why are you comparing incidents? That has nothing to do with the frenzy Ben received.
Those incidents were not going on when Ben was front and center. NOTHING was going on and Ben was front page news. They acted swiftly because the media firestorm was killing Ben and the NFL.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 12:51 PM
II was protecting the very thing that is supposed to make the Steelers organization different. He was sending a message that no one player is above the organization. They traded Holmes. The way I see it...Ben got off very lucky.

You mean they traded Holmes AFTER three arrests and two failed drug tests.

They run this team the same way most teams do.

Ignore the words and look at FACTS.

So, you can only drag a team's name through the mud, put the Steelers at risk and yourself at risk with arrests? Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh. Whether he is a criminal is irrelevant at this point. Hopefully, these events have finally gotten it through Ben's thick skull that he needs to listen to those around him. Ya know the guys that have been there and done that. Guys like Bettis and Bradshaw. Ben needs to stay off the bikes, and out of the clubs. He needs to settle down and date girls in his league. He needs to lay off the booze. While he might not be a criminal he has sure acted childishly. I don't judge Ben beyond the fact that it effects the team. As a fan, I want him around. I just know that the Steelers won't give him another chance.

Another one who reads tabloid headlines and believes them without looking at all the facts.

Facts? who cares about facts?

This wasn't about facts it was about perception.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 12:54 PM
I don't think that the season is necisarrily torpedoed. It will be harder to win and I expect a 1-3 start. That said I also hope that 11-5 or 10-6 is good enough to make the playoffs and that we have a more rested and in the zone Ben at that point.

No revenge would be better for Ben than being able to claim that SB MVP!

:tt2


funny how all is lost without Ben... but we tend to be in every game with and without him.

Crash
07-28-2010, 01:18 PM
I don't think that the season is necisarrily torpedoed. It will be harder to win and I expect a 1-3 start. That said I also hope that 11-5 or 10-6 is good enough to make the playoffs and that we have a more rested and in the zone Ben at that point.

No revenge would be better for Ben than being able to claim that SB MVP!

:tt2


funny how all is lost without Ben... but we tend to be in every game with and without him.

5-5 without Ben since 2004.

.500 gets you fired in this business.

Crash
07-28-2010, 01:22 PM
Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh.

You don't know anything. I'm sure he's had his bad nights. Just like anyone else.

To hell with rumors Shawn, give me FACTS.

Hines Ward's clubbing and love for strippers is a known FACT, he's also divorced, another FACT.

But because Ward kisses the a$$ of the media, his divorce has not been printed ONCE, in Pittsburgh papers.

Crash
07-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Why are you comparing incidents? That has nothing to do with the frenzy Ben received

His suspension has EVERYTHING to do with media frenzy.

To deny that is nothing more than ignorance on your part.

Shawn
07-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh.

You don't know anything. I'm sure he's had his bad nights. Just like anyone else.

To hell with rumors Shawn, give me FACTS.

Hines Ward's clubbing and love for strippers is a known FACT, he's also divorced, another FACT.

But because Ward kisses the a$$ of the media, his divorce has not been printed ONCE, in Pittsburgh papers.

I'm not here to judge lifestyles. Maybe Ward has it right. Maybe Ben needed to kiss more "a$$"...who knows. What I do know is Ben was warned about riding his bike without a helmet. He didn't listen and almost died. Ben has been in trouble twice for a certain lifestyle that exposes him to more risk. I'm not asking for Ben to be a saint...just stay out of the headlines and Goodell's office. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 01:43 PM
Ben has acted immaturely since entering the Burgh.

You don't know anything. I'm sure he's had his bad nights. Just like anyone else.

To hell with rumors Shawn, give me FACTS.

Hines Ward's clubbing and love for strippers is a known FACT, he's also divorced, another FACT.

But because Ward kisses the a$$ of the media, his divorce has not been printed ONCE, in Pittsburgh papers.

I'm not here to judge lifestyles. Maybe Ward has it right. Maybe Ben needed to kiss more "a$$"...who knows. What I do know is Ben was warned about riding his bike without a helmet. He didn't listen and almost died. Ben has been in trouble twice for a certain lifestyle that exposes him to more risk. I'm not asking for Ben to be a saint...just stay out of the headlines and Goodell's office. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I agree 100% that Ben needs to be smart which seems hard at time for him.

He also needs to stay out of Goodell's office but the point I was making is why aren't Young, Benson or Merling in that same office? Doesn't seem kosher does it?

Seems somewhat ironic that we will be playing a Titans team with Young at QB and he was clearly cited for assault with video evidence...FACT!!!! For that game Ben will be suspended because a college tramp and her sorority sisters made unfounded accusations.

Everyone talks about the reputations of the league and the Steelers but it seems beating on fans as Young and Benson did and on a pregnant woman like Merling (all FACTS) did don't effect the image of the league but Ben does.

It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-28-2010, 02:30 PM
Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.


Art took over as President in 2003 in that timne the Steelers have delivered TWO Super Bowl's and 4 playoff appearances. Saying he screwed the team and fans is shortsighted at best, IMO. He has a brand to protect and the fan base does not suffer fools very well. What was he supposed to do? With half the fans clamoring for Ben's head and the other preying he stays put, I think Art II has done a great job navigating this sewar of an offseason. Goodell is who he is but would you REALLY like a Jerry Jones type ownership for the Steelers? Of course he nor Craft would throw Brady or Romo under the bus, they have no morals and represent everything WRONG in sports, the win at all costs, look how big my truck is mentality superceeds sportsmanship and class. The Rooneys have been the stewards of pro football in the 'Burgh since 1933 andI love the fact that our ownership places value on things other than winning at times.

Crash
07-28-2010, 02:39 PM
What was he supposed to do?

Treat Ben the same way his team treated Ernie Holmes, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, and Jeff Reed after ARRESTS.

Art II is a lawyer, but apparently he doesn't respect "due process".


The Rooneys have been the stewards of pro football in the 'Burgh since 1933 and I love the fact that our ownership places value on things other than winning at times.

Blah blah blah blah. Just another mindless sheep who ignores facts.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

steelblood
07-28-2010, 02:45 PM
The Rooney family has made some great decisions over the course of the last 40 years. The Rooneys don't believe in a win at all costs attitude and try to maintain some standards of behavior and decency. Sometimes these standards conflict with putting together a winning football team. I don't like every decision, but I certainly support the Rooney's style of leadership and the standard of character and behavior they expect from their staff and players.

Well you can say that about Art and Dan Rooney. But i don't think you can say that about Art Rooney II.

If they really care about standard of character then they should have shipped Big Ben and James Harrison. Santonio was traded because maybe they thought he is replaceable. Its difficult to replace DMVP and Franchise QB.

Bring back Dan Rooney.

Huh? Shipping off Santonio and backing the suspending of Ben before it happened were certainly not the actions of a team or owner that wants to win at all costs. Is Art II sometimes inconsistent? Yes. But, he is certainly not a win at all costs owner.

I think Holmes was let go because he continually let them down, not because of one instance. He hit his girl (even though she dropped the charges, it happened), he was in the dope mobile, he twittered crazy crap, he was suspended for doping, etc. I wish they didn't cut him, but I see the logic.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 02:47 PM
Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.


Art took over as President in 2003 in that timne the Steelers have delivered TWO Super Bowl's and 4 playoff appearances. Saying he screwed the team and fans is shortsighted at best, IMO. He has a brand to protect and the fan base does not suffer fools very well. What was he supposed to do? With half the fans clamoring for Ben's head and the other preying he stays put, I think Art II has done a great job navigating this sewar of an offseason. Goodell is who he is but would you REALLY like a Jerry Jones type ownership for the Steelers? Of course he nor Craft would throw Brady or Romo under the bus, they have no morals and represent everything WRONG in sports, the win at all costs, look how big my truck is mentality superceeds sportsmanship and class. The Rooneys have been the stewards of pro football in the 'Burgh since 1933 andI love the fact that our ownership places value on things other than winning at times.

Playing devil's advocate, let's say it would have went down this way.

Everyone waits until they know that there is no real evidence and the legal clowns in GA determine that no crime was commited. Rooney then goes before the press and states clearly that they feel Ben has a problem with the situations he is putting himself in and they consider it unacceptable behavior on his part. Rooney then says that he is going to suspend Ben for 2 games and if he repeats another incident like this Ben will not be a member of the Steelers.

At the same time he states they want to help Ben and the tream will work with him to do that.

What would have been different? Goodell keeps his nose out of it but Ben is still disciplined. Do you think anyone stops being a Steelers fan because Rooney deals with it versus Goodell? No way! Why did the commish have to be involved? Because the commish needed to nail a player like Ben to get the sports media off his back for how he dealt with Vick and Pacman.

This is the point I have made since I started this thread. Rooney could have handled this but he served Ben up to the commish to allow Goodell that he was an equal opportunity punisher. Maybe great intentions on the part of the Rooney's, but in practice the Goodell screwed the Steelers with the length of the suspension and then spit in Rooney's face by not doing ANYTHING to Young, Benson or Merling.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 02:52 PM
The Rooney family has made some great decisions over the course of the last 40 years. The Rooneys don't believe in a win at all costs attitude and try to maintain some standards of behavior and decency. Sometimes these standards conflict with putting together a winning football team. I don't like every decision, but I certainly support the Rooney's style of leadership and the standard of character and behavior they expect from their staff and players.

Well you can say that about Art and Dan Rooney. But i don't think you can say that about Art Rooney II.

If they really care about standard of character then they should have shipped Big Ben and James Harrison. Santonio was traded because maybe they thought he is replaceable. Its difficult to replace DMVP and Franchise QB.

Bring back Dan Rooney.

Huh? Shipping off Santonio and backing the suspending of Ben before it happened were certainly not the actions of a team or owner that wants to win at all costs. Is Art II sometimes inconsistent? Yes. But, he is certainly not a win at all costs owner.

I think Holmes was let go because he continually let them down, not because of one instance. He hit his girl (even though she dropped the charges, it happened), he was in the dope mobile, he twittered crazy crap, he was suspended for doping, etc. I wish they didn't cut him, but I see the logic.

Holmes was let go because the Steelers knew that no way they had any intentions of resigning him after the season, he was going to be suspended for the first 4 games and combined those two thingsmade it not worth the hassle.

They also probably knew that Santonio has no intention what so ever of changing the behavior issues he has with regards to marijuana and the chances he gets caught again are pretty high.

Maybe if Ben doesn't play stupid in Georgia then they would have been willing to keep Holmes but with both issues it wasn't worth the hassle and ben is more importnat to this team than Holmes.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-28-2010, 02:55 PM
[quote]What was he supposed to do?

Treat Ben the same way his team treated Ernie Holmes, Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, and Jeff Reed after ARRESTS.

Art II is a lawyer, but apparently he doesn't respect "due process".


The Rooneys have been the stewards of pro football in the 'Burgh since 1933 and I love the fact that our ownership places value on things other than winning at times.

Blah blah blah blah. Just another mindless sheep who ignores facts.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.[/quote:2fuclsi2]

Mindless Sheep? Same old Crash, always looking for a fight, where the hell is Perogi Pete? Dude haven't you learned yet that people are allowed to disagree with you? Jamming your OPINION down peoples throat with insults DOESN'T make you right. Your entitled to your opinion and so am I. I just won't call you an idiot because I disagree.

ANPSTEEL
07-28-2010, 02:58 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 03:02 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

$$$$$

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 03:04 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

$$$$$

Vince Young, Cedric Benson and Phil merling don't exactly make minimum wage but doesn't seem to be any responsibility or accountability assigned to them by the commish or their owners does it?????

Kid
07-28-2010, 03:23 PM
Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.


Art took over as President in 2003 in that timne the Steelers have delivered TWO Super Bowl's and 4 playoff appearances. Saying he screwed the team and fans is shortsighted at best, IMO. He has a brand to protect and the fan base does not suffer fools very well. What was he supposed to do? With half the fans clamoring for Ben's head and the other preying he stays put, I think Art II has done a great job navigating this sewar of an offseason. Goodell is who he is but would you REALLY like a Jerry Jones type ownership for the Steelers? Of course he nor Craft would throw Brady or Romo under the bus, they have no morals and represent everything WRONG in sports, the win at all costs, look how big my truck is mentality superceeds sportsmanship and class. The Rooneys have been the stewards of pro football in the 'Burgh since 1933 andI love the fact that our ownership places value on things other than winning at times.

they pick and chose when to place morals and values over wins. they just happen to have a little better percentage than most teams and alot more over a few teams.

aggiebones
07-28-2010, 03:36 PM
The Steelers curry favors from the league at will.
When you have that ability, you MUST police yourself.

I am not sure what favors Steelers have got at will?? They could not even save the ownership.

Goodell would not hesitate with Romo and wouldn't care what Jones thinks.

I don't think so. Goodell cannot take on Jones and Krafts of the league. No way. With CBA round the corner he simply cannot make Jones and Kraft angry. If Bud Adams wanted Young to be punished Goodell would have punished him. But that was not the case. So yes Goodell does care about the owners opinion.


Ben deserves 4 games and Ben got 4 games.
Not sure why Ben deserves 4 games for an accusation. Infact Ben got 6 games. Convicted criminals and people who cheat with banned substance get away easy in NFL. Goodell had no business of punishing Big Ben for 6 games


You also forget that Art II would have suspended Ben himself, but it would have been more cumbersome and the players association could have fought it.Art II WANTED Ben suspended and he deserved it. He puppetted Goodell on this as he will continue to do.

Art Rooney should have punished Big Ben for 2 games max and put some financial fine on him.





Rooneys bought a long time on the ownership situation. And they basically saved it for the family. Again, they can't blatantly break the rules and they have had strict rules on the books about ownership forever. The Jones/Snyder/ADavis type owners have always been beaten down. If they got what they wanted, it would be a free market free-for-all and not just for players.
Young swung at a guy. That is not a big ugly black eye on the league. Young is not a premier player and frankly its a punch in the eye. Ben is a premier icon and was growing. The NFL invested alot to put him out in front a bit and was positioning to move him forward likely as Manning/Brees started sliding away. Accusations aside, he sullied the league and Steelers name with a high number of fans. You are an insignificant number as am I. The masses speak. Many spoke to send him packing. Thank goodness the Rooneys just had him suspended. Think what you want. The Steelers and the Rooneys played this perfect for all. BEN NEEDED suspended to force his hand some. He was running amoke and we were headed for a very ugly high profile divorce from him. IF this is played well, he'll be back in good graces with the Steeler fans by next training camp. And most will be forgotten as the years clip away. I think he finished a Steeler and it may be because of how well the Rooneys played this.

So yea, I think your are totally wrong.

ANPSTEEL
07-28-2010, 03:42 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

$$$$$

Vince Young, Cedric Benson and Phil merling don't exactly make minimum wage but doesn't seem to be any responsibility or accountability assigned to them by the commish or their owners does it?????

Don't make me responsible for the uneven handling of delivering punishment.

The penalties are clearly different.

But so is the "perceived" crime.

2 accusations of sexual assualt beats a pair of "drunk and punching a dude" etc...

I recognize the tenuous nature of both accusations against Ben...

but rape comes with a HUGE stigma (rightfully so) within our culture...and in the court of public opinion- facts are not always relevant.

Goodell had little choice in the matter- given the tremendous media and public outcry - which - I'm sure- also led to the strong reaction by the Rooneys.

aggiebones
07-28-2010, 03:43 PM
Also, did you think ArtII was a lone gunman? Do you think they don't have phones in Ireland?
Seriously guys. He may be the man in front, but I GUARANTEE another Rooney or 4 had imput and there were some LOOOONG phone calls.

Sugar
07-28-2010, 05:28 PM
I don't think that the season is necisarrily torpedoed. It will be harder to win and I expect a 1-3 start. That said I also hope that 11-5 or 10-6 is good enough to make the playoffs and that we have a more rested and in the zone Ben at that point.

No revenge would be better for Ben than being able to claim that SB MVP!

:tt2


funny how all is lost without Ben... but we tend to be in every game with and without him.

Not all is lost without Ben, but considering the teams we are playing it looks like 1-3 to me. I don't see us getting blown out, just not having enough to get over the hump.

So many have said how it will be supposedly good for Ben to sit. It will somehow wisen him up. It could actually have that effect on the FO. Perhaps they'll learn the value that Ben provides to the team and treat him with more respect going forward. ...Nah!

ikestops85
07-28-2010, 05:40 PM
I'm sorry but Goodell and the Rooneys screwed the pooch with this one. They showed a complete lack of guts. They needed to stand up against the media and tell everyone that until evidence is provided that points to Ben's guilt nothing would be decided.

Would it be hard to do that in the face of the media storm and negative publicity about Ben? Certainly! But if they really wanted to take the moral high ground that is what they would have done. Instead they took the easy path and let those who "perceived" Ben was guilty or wouldn't get punished because he is a high profile white QB force the issue.

For those who still think the Rooneys walk on the moral high ground how do you explain the Harrison debacle? How do you explain them being in violation of the league ownership rules for such a long time? How do you explain them making their money from gambling establishments which many people feel is morally wrong (not me but there are many)? Did you hear the Rooneys call out the *'s in the cheating scandal? Why not? Why did they not take the moral high ground on that issue?

So the question is why come down so hard on Ben, their star QB, for doing nothing wrong but acting like an idiot? Could it be that they owed Goodell a favor or 2 for him giving them all the time they wanted on the ownership issue? Is that why they were behind Goodell getting the job? Is this a quid pro quo thing? How morally right would that be?

Sorry folks but I am one of the minority that feels Ben should not have been suspended for ANY games. He may act stupidly at times but if that is a reason to be suspended the NFL would have a problem fielding teams or having coaches and owners at the games due to suspensions. Nope, the guy got the shaft from the commissioner, the owner, and the media.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-28-2010, 06:06 PM
2 accusations of sexual assualt beats a pair of "drunk and punching a dude" etc...



Indeed, much like a murder rap without a conviction makes Ray Lewis a killer right guys? We bash on others but fail to hold our own to the same standards, utterly ridiculous Ben was stupid, was and is publiclly persecuted and is now paying for HIS actions. I hope he learns from life before it teaches him another painful lesson.

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 06:07 PM
The Steelers curry favors from the league at will.
When you have that ability, you MUST police yourself.

I am not sure what favors Steelers have got at will?? They could not even save the ownership.

Goodell would not hesitate with Romo and wouldn't care what Jones thinks.

I don't think so. Goodell cannot take on Jones and Krafts of the league. No way. With CBA round the corner he simply cannot make Jones and Kraft angry. If Bud Adams wanted Young to be punished Goodell would have punished him. But that was not the case. So yes Goodell does care about the owners opinion.


Ben deserves 4 games and Ben got 4 games.
Not sure why Ben deserves 4 games for an accusation. Infact Ben got 6 games. Convicted criminals and people who cheat with banned substance get away easy in NFL. Goodell had no business of punishing Big Ben for 6 games


You also forget that Art II would have suspended Ben himself, but it would have been more cumbersome and the players association could have fought it.Art II WANTED Ben suspended and he deserved it. He puppetted Goodell on this as he will continue to do.

Art Rooney should have punished Big Ben for 2 games max and put some financial fine on him.





Rooneys bought a long time on the ownership situation. And they basically saved it for the family. Again, they can't blatantly break the rules and they have had strict rules on the books about ownership forever. The Jones/Snyder/ADavis type owners have always been beaten down. If they got what they wanted, it would be a free market free-for-all and not just for players.
Young swung at a guy. That is not a big ugly black eye on the league. Young is not a premier player and frankly its a punch in the eye. Ben is a premier icon and was growing. The NFL invested alot to put him out in front a bit and was positioning to move him forward likely as Manning/Brees started sliding away. Accusations aside, he sullied the league and Steelers name with a high number of fans. You are an insignificant number as am I. The masses speak. Many spoke to send him packing. Thank goodness the Rooneys just had him suspended. Think what you want. The Steelers and the Rooneys played this perfect for all. BEN NEEDED suspended to force his hand some. He was running amoke and we were headed for a very ugly high profile divorce from him. IF this is played well, he'll be back in good graces with the Steeler fans by next training camp. And most will be forgotten as the years clip away. I think he finished a Steeler and it may be because of how well the Rooneys played this.

So yea, I think your are totally wrong.

Fisrt of all no one is saying Big Ben should be left unpunished but 6 games for accusations is ridiculous.

Do you have a source which said Rooney forced Goodell to suspend Big Ben for 6 games??I would definitely like to read that source. As far as i know Rooneys themselves were surprised that he got 6 games. Rooneys should have come out in support of Big Ben. And as i said before if Rooneys were so disgusted with Big Ben they should have traded him. I don't think Rooneys would have done that. You simply don't trade a franchise QB on basis of accusations.

Once Goodell suspend Big Ben under nfl code of conduct it becomes a law and it should applied to everyone in the organization in the same way. If you can't do it..you are a failure. A big failure. With flag football rules and code of conduct policy in my book Goodell has made NFL a laughing stock. Don't blame Big Ben for tht.

As far as coming to good graces with so called Steelers fans i say Big Ben is better of without them. Big Ben don't need bandwagon fans. Next year if Big Ben pees on the golf course these same fans will be screaming for another 4 game suspension.

Crash
07-28-2010, 08:13 PM
Indeed, much like a murder rap without a conviction makes Ray Lewis a killer right guys?

Ray Lewis plead guilty to a crime though.

No suspension.

Ray Lewis later paid off the families of the dead people.

No suspension.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 08:34 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

Link? Source?

Probably not.

LMAO still at all the holier than thou folks and their "Ben is running amok" and "he needed this to straighten him out" BS. And that's what it is...BS. All you moral high grounders know is what the headlines said. Take the time to look at the FACTS and you can clearly see why the Georgia DA was so PO'd that he couldn't prosecute. He had his big fish but had to throw it back because that big fish wasn't caught legitimately...he was foul hooked* by some drunk sorority chicks.

I don't care if it was Goodell, the Rooneys or a combination thereof...this whole thing was a debacle from the get go. And Ike, count me in with you...Ben should have never received a suspension for being accused of something that simply can not be proved.

*I know a lot of you on here don't fish so allow me to explain. Catching a fish legitimately means hook in mouth. Hooked any other way is considered foul hooked, and unless allowed by state or local regulations, a foul hooked fish must be released.

grotonsteel
07-28-2010, 08:45 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

Link? Source?

Probably not.

LMAO still at all the holier than thou folks and their "Ben is running amok" and "he needed this to straighten him out" BS. And that's what it is...BS. All you moral high grounders know is what the headlines said. Take the time to look at the FACTS and you can clearly see why the Georgia DA was so PO'd that he couldn't prosecute. He had his big fish but had to throw it back because that big fish wasn't caught legitimately...he was foul hooked* by some drunk sorority chicks.

I don't care if it was Goodell, the Rooneys or a combination thereof...this whole thing was a debacle from the get go. And Ike, count me in with you...Ben should have never received a suspension for being accused of something that simply can not be proved.

*I know a lot of you on here don't fish so allow me to explain. Catching a fish legitimately means hook in mouth. Hooked any other way is considered foul hooked, and unless allowed by state or local regulations, a foul hooked fish must be released.

Well said Stlrz D...well said..

:Clap

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 08:52 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

Link? Source?

Probably not.

LMAO still at all the holier than thou folks and their "Ben is running amok" and "he needed this to straighten him out" BS. And that's what it is...BS. All you moral high grounders know is what the headlines said. Take the time to look at the FACTS and you can clearly see why the Georgia DA was so PO'd that he couldn't prosecute. He had his big fish but had to throw it back because that big fish wasn't caught legitimately...he was foul hooked* by some drunk sorority chicks.

I don't care if it was Goodell, the Rooneys or a combination thereof...this whole thing was a debacle from the get go. And Ike, count me in with you...Ben should have never received a suspension for being accused of something that simply can not be proved.

*I know a lot of you on here don't fish so allow me to explain. Catching a fish legitimately means hook in mouth. Hooked any other way is considered foul hooked, and unless allowed by state or local regulations, a foul hooked fish must be released.

Well said Stlrz D...well said..

:Clap

Thanks. I get so sick of all the hypocrisy from the moral majority. I'd bet nearly every one of 'em has a skeleton or three in a closet somewhere.

Doesn't the bible say something about getting your own house in order first or something like that? Also, isn't there something in it about sin and casting the first stone?

BURGH86STEEL
07-28-2010, 09:01 PM
IMO Art Rooney II screwed Big Ben big time and put Steelers in a big fix with uncertainty over the ban period.

I don't know AR2 well enough to comment on him in this regard, but Ben did the screwing, both literally and figuratively. And he did it to both himself and the team. Without his actions, setting aside whether he is guilty or not guilty but just putting himself in bad situations over and over again, he forced the Steelers to act too quickly and use a draft pick on Leftwich, made the Steelers front page news nationwide for all of the wrong reasons, and put our 2010 season in jeopardy before training camp started. How anyone thinks AR2 screwed Ben here is beyond me.
I share your comments and thoughts as well.
If AR2 really wanted to screw things up, he would have traded Ben to the highest bidder
prior to the draft. And it could have been just a 2nd rounder. Because Ben is considered
a high risk per say for a 1st round pick.
Ben screwed things up going into this season. And Ben only!
The Steelers FO reacted the best way they could given the short time involved at that time.
Like it or not, the Steelers are a GREAT organization. If people don't like it, then go root for the Raiders, Cowgirls, Deadskins, Stains, Bungholes... You get the picture?

I agree, there is no one to blame but Ben. I don't see the point in blaming the people responsible for handing down the punishment or anyone else. It is what it is.

Chadman
07-28-2010, 09:01 PM
Oh dear...here we go again...

Ok, a couple of points-

1. Glad Ben got suspended, glad the Steelers took the high ground, VERY glad Ben accepted the suspension & is doing all the right things for all the right people. Personally, Chadman doesn't care how other players are treated for acts away from football- differing circumstances call for different punishments. Just so long as Chadman can comfortably feel like 'his' team is that little bit more 'special' than the others, Chadman will be happy. Steelers drew a line in the sand for the players. Not many teams do the same. There's a difference between winning & winning at all costs. Chadman respects option 1 more. Kudos to Ben since the drama played out- so far so good.

2. With the other players & the time it took for the suspensions- did it have something to do with the state of the legal case? Ben wasn't suspended until after the case was thrown out- has Bensen et el had their case resolved yet? If not- this may be part of the reason for the 'inaction'.

3. Crash- settle pettle. Good to have you around for your opinions, but the way you're 'need to be right' is, quite frankly, a little childish. Just agree to disagree if you must- no need for the incessant 'sheep' calls etc.

That's all for now..

Flasteel
07-28-2010, 09:07 PM
As far as I'm concerned if we struggle this season, especially early, it is totally on the Art Rooney II. He threw Ben under the bus so Goodell could get the heat taken off him by crucifying a high profile white player on the alter of the sports media.

It has become clear that Goodell is deliberating turning a deaf ear to the spate of trangressions that have occurred by numerous other players. He was not setting a standard with Ben he was taking the heat off himself because of criticism he had that he was going after only black players and ART II was a willing accomplice.

Do you think Jerry Jones would have helped throw Tony Romo under the bus? Robert Kraft throw Brady under the bus? Ben screwed up and the team should have handled it but Goodell wanted to deal with it to nail a high profile white player. No charges only accusations. He has never handed out punishment for that before and he ignores real charges.

Art II has screwed this team, this coaching staff, Ben and the fans for the 2010 season. This is why I really wanted the billionaire trying to buy the Steelers to get control. This league is no longer a group of frat boys who with "take one for the gipper." We are competing against hard-nosed, ruthless businessmen who want to maximize the success of the "brand." IMO in Art II's first real act to lead he failed by playing collaborator with this inconsistent, clueless commisioner.

This is easily the most retarded idea to ever drift from your keyboard. If we start off poorly, it will be on the players and coaches...nobody else.

From all reports, it was Dan Rooney who seemed to be the most upset. You got a few choice adjectives for him too? I don't blame the ownership for being supportive of the commisioners actions. Did you expect them to try and publicly defend Roethlisberger; knowing what the reaction from the peanut gallery would be? Plus, they were all pissed themselves.

I for one, thought a suspension was in order at the time, but nothing more than a game...two max. In light of the consequences absent for a lot of recent player miscondunct however, I don't believe Ben should have been suspended at all. That's on Goodell...not AR2.

I'm not a fan of the public persona the lawyer puts forward, but the guy has done a hell of a job since taking over the day-to-day operations.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-28-2010, 09:13 PM
Indeed, much like a murder rap without a conviction makes Ray Lewis a killer right guys?

Ray Lewis plead guilty to a crime though.

No suspension.

Ray Lewis later paid off the families of the dead people.

No suspension.

The point is some call him a killer but he wasn't convicted. I am not hating on Ben, I think he made a stupid decision and IS being made an example of but thats life it isn't always fair. There are far worst atrocities in the world than a 100 million dollar athelete being treated unfairly. I hope Ben gets whatever issues he deems he has squared away so we can get back to talking football.

Sugar
07-28-2010, 09:18 PM
LMAO still at all the holier than thou folks and their "Ben is running amok" and "he needed this to straighten him out" BS. And that's what it is...BS. All you moral high grounders know is what the headlines said. Take the time to look at the FACTS and you can clearly see why the Georgia DA was so PO'd that he couldn't prosecute. He had his big fish but had to throw it back because that big fish wasn't caught legitimately...he was foul hooked* by some drunk sorority chicks.

I don't care if it was Goodell, the Rooneys or a combination thereof...this whole thing was a debacle from the get go. And Ike, count me in with you...Ben should have never received a suspension for being accused of something that simply can not be proved.

*I know a lot of you on here don't fish so allow me to explain. Catching a fish legitimately means hook in mouth. Hooked any other way is considered foul hooked, and unless allowed by state or local regulations, a foul hooked fish must be released.

This- $$$ :Clap

NJ-STEELER
07-28-2010, 09:32 PM
i hope the rooneys take the high road and look to expunge the guys like ernie holmes, joe gilliam, big daddyy lipscome, bam morris, the admitted steroid users from steeler history books.


they might give someone the wrong idea about the pittsburgh virgin marys, errr steelers, i mean

Crash
07-28-2010, 09:52 PM
I don't care about being right.

But any time any board poster starts singing the BS about Rooney morals and how they don't run their team like other owners? I will present them facts to the contrary.

Thats why Ben is in the situation he's in a bit with the local fanbase.

Because some old geezer who was a young guy in the 1970's still believes that company line crap.

ANPSTEEL
07-28-2010, 09:57 PM
It just becomes clearer to me that Ben was made an example of because of what he is the more these other incidents go by and are ignored.


Ovi-

I'm not going to get into the whole "situation" surrounding Ben- we've been there, done that.

But, in respect to his suspension, I believe the Rooneys had a very strong influence, possibly even demanding that the commissioner suspend Ben.

I believe this because, per my understanding, if the team suspended Ben, the player's union could fight the suspension, but if the league suspends him- they cannot.

If the team had suspended Ben, the Union would absolutely have fought the suspension- and this whole situation would likely still be unresolved.

Now-

Did the media "pile on"?

Absolutely.

Was the commissioner's decision influenced by the media?

Probably.

But- at the end of the day, Dan & ARII held court with Rog- and I think they came to a mutual agreement regarding the punishment, and how it would be delivered.

The punished Ben in a way that would:

- Make an example of Ben
*in the media
*and with the players
- Minimize the percieved team involvement-
*in other words... the team wouldn't have to take a "us against you" stand.
- Minimize the duration of the public spectacle that would have gone on and on- had this been executed by the Steelers and appealed by the Union.


Is any of this right, or fair???

Probably not.

But Ben is in a high profile position- getting paid a whole lot of money.

With that money and that influence comes a greater degree of responsibility and accountability.

Hence- Ben is gonna sit on the sideline for a while- for trying to get a drunk chick to screw him, while he was also drunk.

Link? Source?

Probably not.

LMAO still at all the holier than thou folks and their "Ben is running amok" and "he needed this to straighten him out" BS. And that's what it is...BS. All you moral high grounders know is what the headlines said. Take the time to look at the FACTS and you can clearly see why the Georgia DA was so PO'd that he couldn't prosecute. He had his big fish but had to throw it back because that big fish wasn't caught legitimately...he was foul hooked* by some drunk sorority chicks.

I don't care if it was Goodell, the Rooneys or a combination thereof...this whole thing was a debacle from the get go. And Ike, count me in with you...Ben should have never received a suspension for being accused of something that simply can not be proved.

*I know a lot of you on here don't fish so allow me to explain. Catching a fish legitimately means hook in mouth. Hooked any other way is considered foul hooked, and unless allowed by state or local regulations, a foul hooked fish must be released.

come on now-

I'm not trying to start this whole thing up with you.

(I don't have the time or inclination to get into a nonsensical argument on an internet message board.)

I did not make any sort of moral judgment here on Ben's actions.

Additionally, I have never said that I thought Ben forcefully assaulted this woman.

I don't think my statement regarding one drunk person trying to get laid by another drunk person, is in anyway inflammatory (its a constant occurrence) - or really disputable in this situation.

Djfan
07-28-2010, 10:00 PM
Thanks. I get so sick of all the hypocrisy from the moral majority. I'd bet nearly every one of 'em has a skeleton or three in a closet somewhere.

Doesn't the bible say something about getting your own house in order first or something like that? Also, isn't there something in it about sin and casting the first stone?


D,

Your points are well presented. Don't follow up with this kind of stuff. I have always felt you're above the stabs.

The Bible verse you mention doesn't apply here. But the Biblical idea of not treating others harsher than you would treat yourself is there.

For Ben's sake I hope he chooses the high road from now on. For the team's sake I hope Rooney gets over this soon. For the league's sake I hope Goodell finds himself in a college bar bathroom in GA soon.

The fact of the penalty is not connected to the fact of the harshness of this penalty and it's inequity compared to the rest of the issues the NFL players have brought to the table lately.

I think Goodell should leave and Bruce Arians take his place.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 10:12 PM
I don't think my statement regarding one drunk person trying to get laid by another drunk person, is in anyway inflammatory (its a constant occurrence) - or really disputable in this situation.

I disagree. There were just as many reports that Ben was nursing a beer as their were that he was doing more than that.

There is ZERO evidence that he went into a bathroom with her and ZERO evidence that he had sex with her.

So disputable it is.

Choose to believe the headlines and be another sheep...it's your right to make yourself look foolish. Enjoy.

Dj - Sorry. Was just trying to make a point. Would "judge not lest ye be judged" be applicable? :D

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 10:19 PM
Are people really trying to use the Bible to deflect criticism from Ben? Is a Hitler reference soon to follow?

Djfan
07-28-2010, 10:20 PM
Dj - Sorry. Was just trying to make a point. Would "judge not lest ye be
judged" be applicable? :D

No harm, Sir. I knew you to be the kind to take a point. Just more respect from me.

It's not about judging. We all have opinions and that is often interpreted as judging. That's wrong, but common.

It's OK to think he screwed up. It's OK to think that there isn't enough to hold him on. We have only his vague statements that he messed up. So, I guess he did.

He didn't choose the punishment. Goodell/Rooney did. That is all on them. Too much.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 10:23 PM
I don't think my statement regarding one drunk person trying to get laid by another drunk person, is in anyway inflammatory (its a constant occurrence) - or really disputable in this situation.

I disagree. There were just as many reports that Ben was nursing a beer as their were that he was doing more than that.

There is ZERO evidence that he went into a bathroom with her and ZERO evidence that he had sex with her.

So disputable it is.

Choose to believe the headlines and be another sheep...it's your right to make yourself look foolish. Enjoy.

Dj - Sorry. Was just trying to make a point. Would "judge not lest ye be judged" be applicable? :D

There are no biblical references that are applicable Jesse.

If Ben was sober or nursing a beer it makes him look like a skeezy predator.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 10:39 PM
I don't think my statement regarding one drunk person trying to get laid by another drunk person, is in anyway inflammatory (its a constant occurrence) - or really disputable in this situation.

I disagree. There were just as many reports that Ben was nursing a beer as their were that he was doing more than that.

There is ZERO evidence that he went into a bathroom with her and ZERO evidence that he had sex with her.

So disputable it is.

Choose to believe the headlines and be another sheep...it's your right to make yourself look foolish. Enjoy.

Dj - Sorry. Was just trying to make a point. Would "judge not lest ye be judged" be applicable? :D

There are no biblical references that are applicable Jesse.

If Ben was sober or nursing a beer it makes him look like a skeezy predator.

Only to idiots, morons and the intellectually void who aren't capable of seeing beyond headlines.

Dj - I take his "I messed up" statement as something he needed to do to help shorten the suspension to 4 games.

I too hope that he one day writes a tell all book and this is all exposed.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 10:53 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.

Crash
07-28-2010, 10:58 PM
If Ben was sober or nursing a beer it makes him look like a skeezy predator.

She followed him from club to club, and pinched his ass to get his attention.

If Ben was sober or nursing a beer, it still makes her look like a whore.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 11:00 PM
If Ben was sober or nursing a beer it makes him look like a skeezy predator.

She followed him from club to club, and pinched his bad word to get his attention.

If Ben was sober or nursing a beer, it still makes her look like a whore.

:lol: Love it!

Yeah...and then Ben got out his checkbook, paid them all off and fell on his own sword because he knew he did something very, very wrong.

:lol:

Djfan
07-28-2010, 11:06 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 11:08 PM
If Ben was sober or nursing a beer it makes him look like a skeezy predator.

She followed him from club to club, and pinched his bad word to get his attention.

If Ben was sober or nursing a beer, it still makes her look like a whore.

She can be a whore... most of the woman who want Ben are money whores...
Ben has more to lose than the whores... it's not the whores fault he fell on the banana peel.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 11:14 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

Whatever is right... whatever we write it's not going to change the suspension. Let's deal with reality and stop wishing and hoping. Guys are talking about "judge not" and "casting stones" and the next post it's idiot, moron and whore handclaps.

Whatever...

Djfan
07-28-2010, 11:16 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

Whatever is right... whatever we write it's not going to change the suspension. Let's deal with reality and stop wishing and hoping. Guys are talking about "judge not" and "casting stones" and the next post it's idiot, moron and whore handclaps.

Whatever...

Dude. I am one of the few on this board who haven't had a problem with you. Let's try to keep it that way.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 11:21 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

Whatever is right... whatever we write it's not going to change the suspension. Let's deal with reality and stop wishing and hoping. Guys are talking about "judge not" and "casting stones" and the next post it's idiot, moron and whore handclaps.

Whatever...

Dude. I am one of the few on this board who haven't had a problem with you. Let's try to keep it that way.

Well you haven't read enough of his posts then! :lol:

Djfan
07-28-2010, 11:35 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

Whatever is right... whatever we write it's not going to change the suspension. Let's deal with reality and stop wishing and hoping. Guys are talking about "judge not" and "casting stones" and the next post it's idiot, moron and whore handclaps.

Whatever...

Dude. I am one of the few on this board who haven't had a problem with you. Let's try to keep it that way.

Well you haven't read enough of his posts then! :lol:

I try to be understanding.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 11:40 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

Whatever is right... whatever we write it's not going to change the suspension. Let's deal with reality and stop wishing and hoping. Guys are talking about "judge not" and "casting stones" and the next post it's idiot, moron and whore handclaps.

Whatever...

Dude. I am one of the few on this board who haven't had a problem with you. Let's try to keep it that way.

did I call you out by name? Did I call you a name? Did I even quote you and respond prior to your quote?

If you disagree then fine but don't act like I'm out to get you.

Djfan
07-28-2010, 11:50 PM
I guess bible study is over since you are name calling.

This is why you shouldn't use biblical references. :nono

Ben could write a tell-all book... so can the chicks, unless they were paid not too.


Whatever Felt.

Whatever is right... whatever we write it's not going to change the suspension. Let's deal with reality and stop wishing and hoping. Guys are talking about "judge not" and "casting stones" and the next post it's idiot, moron and whore handclaps.

Whatever...

Dude. I am one of the few on this board who haven't had a problem with you. Let's try to keep it that way.

did I call you out by name? Did I call you a name? Did I even quote you and respond prior to your quote?

If you disagree then fine but don't act like I'm out to get you.

I didn't. I'm done. Go back to your basement.

feltdizz
07-29-2010, 12:03 AM
instead of keeping it 100 you throw insults to fit in...

Like I said... I never went at you, it's a shame you feel as though I did.

Football can't get here soon enough. :Cheers

and I'm on the second floor, hardwoods.

Steel Life
07-29-2010, 12:27 AM
Tired topic or not, Ovi has a point...I don't think the team (e.g. Art II) stood up enough for Ben. He could've easily taken a stand without letting Ben become the sacrificial lamb that he did. But the thing about the season being over?...step off the ledge son, we got a long way to go.

Oviedo
07-29-2010, 08:15 AM
Tired topic or not, Ovi has a point...I don't think the team (e.g. Art II) stood up enough for Ben. He could've easily taken a stand without letting Ben become the sacrificial lamb that he did. But the thing about the season being over?...step off the ledge son, we got a long way to go.

Thanks SL. Obviously with 6 pages of discussion (4 if you take away the bickering between posters) and counting it is a topic people have strong opinions on.

I don't think the season is over but I think Art II made it much more difficult to be successful. I actually think we will be 10-6 or 9-7, hopefully we can be at least 2-2 in those first four games so we don't dig too deep a hole that we can't get out of it.

ikestops85
07-29-2010, 10:26 AM
Tired topic or not, Ovi has a point...I don't think the team (e.g. Art II) stood up enough for Ben. He could've easily taken a stand without letting Ben become the sacrificial lamb that he did. But the thing about the season being over?...step off the ledge son, we got a long way to go.

Thanks SL. Obviously with 6 pages of discussion (4 if you take away the bickering between posters) and counting it is a topic people have strong opinions on.

I don't think the season is over but I think Art II made it much more difficult to be successful. I actually think we will be 10-6 or 9-7, hopefully we can be at least 2-2 in those first four games so we don't dig too deep a hole that we can't get out of it.

Hey Ovi ... great discussion topic which is what this forum is for. There are a lot of diverse opinions here which is why I like this site. You don't have to be a homer to be accepted here (although it helps :D ) and the name calling is kept to a minimum.

I also agree that the season isn't over but it will be more challenging which I think this team excells at. Remember the 2008 schedule and how many in the media thought we didn't have a chance because it was so tough? I truly believe this team will be fighting for a playoff spot in week 16 and 17 even with the Ben suspension.

:tt2 :tt2

Iron Shiek
07-29-2010, 10:50 AM
Tired topic or not, Ovi has a point...I don't think the team (e.g. Art II) stood up enough for Ben. He could've easily taken a stand without letting Ben become the sacrificial lamb that he did. But the thing about the season being over?...step off the ledge son, we got a long way to go.

Thanks SL. Obviously with 6 pages of discussion (4 if you take away the bickering between posters) and counting it is a topic people have strong opinions on.

I don't think the season is over but I think Art II made it much more difficult to be successful. I actually think we will be 10-6 or 9-7, hopefully we can be at least 2-2 in those first four games so we don't dig too deep a hole that we can't get out of it.


I will follow Mike Tomlin's expectations of going 3-1 every 4 game block...and even without Ben I expect the same from this team. Last year's debacle is unacceptable to me (not that I can do $hit about it...but still).

Oviedo
07-29-2010, 10:56 AM
Tired topic or not, Ovi has a point...I don't think the team (e.g. Art II) stood up enough for Ben. He could've easily taken a stand without letting Ben become the sacrificial lamb that he did. But the thing about the season being over?...step off the ledge son, we got a long way to go.

Thanks SL. Obviously with 6 pages of discussion (4 if you take away the bickering between posters) and counting it is a topic people have strong opinions on.

I don't think the season is over but I think Art II made it much more difficult to be successful. I actually think we will be 10-6 or 9-7, hopefully we can be at least 2-2 in those first four games so we don't dig too deep a hole that we can't get out of it.

Hey Ovi ... great discussion topic which is what this forum is for. There are a lot of diverse opinions here which is why I like this site. You don't have to be a homer to be accepted here (although it helps :D ) and the name calling is kept to a minimum.

I also agree that the season isn't over but it will be more challenging which I think this team excells at. Remember the 2008 schedule and how many in the media thought we didn't have a chance because it was so tough? I truly believe this team will be fighting for a playoff spot in week 16 and 17 even with the Ben suspension.

:tt2 :tt2

I agree that we will be fighting for the play offs probably to the last weekend of the season. IMO there are three keys to the season.

1. Beat the teams you should beat, e.g. Tampa, Cleveland x2, Oakland and Buffalo. That equals 5 wins
2. No worse than a split with Ravens and Bumgals. That equals 2 wins
3. Play not worse than .500 against remaining schedule of Carolina, NE, Saints, Miami, Titans and Falcons. That means 3 wins.

If we do those three things we end up with 10 wins. If 10 wins doesn't get us into the play offs I can't blame the team because that is a good season.

It doesn't leave alot of margin for error which is why the unjust suspension of Ben has me so ticked off.

aggiebones
07-29-2010, 11:15 AM
High ground, low ground, it doesn't matter where you are.

Ben was playing with fire and the NFL currently has the right to make examples of these guys BEFORE they have a catastrophic event. Ben's been close enough. Motorcycle crash, 2 rape 'allegations.' They want to hit these guys a bit to try and knock some sense into them.

The NFL can't do anything to Lawrence Taylor, but they can Ben.

This 'could' help Ben understand the rules of society a bit.
How would you feel if Ben skirts these issues and eventually gets caught in a situation like LTaylor?
Say Ben wins 2 more Super Bowls and then gets caught on video having sex with someone who halfway through struggles to escape. It would shatter this franchise.
We will survive 4 games without Ben.
If the Defense isn't fixed, it won't matter. If we can't run the ball at all, it won't matter. If the RT gets Lefty, Dixon and Ben all killed, it won't matter.
We have issues that are bigger than Ben missing 4 games with this CURRENT team. Of course EVERY team has issues.

Crash
07-29-2010, 11:26 AM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And thats the issue here.

ANPSTEEL
07-29-2010, 12:23 PM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And that's the issue here.

a. Act
b. Georgia DA
c. Media outcry (created by the DA)
d. Public outcry (created by the DA & media)
e. Rooney(s) position (created by all of the above)
=
f. Suspension

What we have here is an outcome (suspension) which has multiple causes-

and the core cause, being the "criminal act", while necessary, is clearly not sufficient to bring about a suspension.

If Ben had done A, and B never happened- and thus C, D, & E are non-existent or significantly reduced in impact...

we never see F the suspension.

???

Crash
07-29-2010, 01:57 PM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And that's the issue here.

a. Act
b. Georgia DA
c. Media outcry (created by the DA)
d. Public outcry (created by the DA & media)
e. Rooney(s) position (created by all of the above)
=
f. Suspension

What we have here is an outcome (suspension) which has multiple causes-

and the core cause, being the "criminal act", while necessary, is clearly not sufficient to bring about a suspension.

If Ben had done A, and B never happened- and thus C, D, & E are non-existent or significantly reduced in impact...

we never see F the suspension.

???

So if Goodell is basically a media puppet, why on Earth did the owners approve him?

cruzer8
07-29-2010, 02:07 PM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And thats the issue here.

No one has a good answer for that dude. The only thing they'll come back with is that the Rooneys just don't put up with this kind of thing. When history shows that they have.

You and I and a few others know the truth. Others choose to hide behind that mythical moral superiority stance.

cruzer8
07-29-2010, 02:09 PM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And thats the issue here.

No one has a good answer for that dude. The only thing they'll come back with is that the Rooneys just don't put up with this kind of thing. When history shows that they have.

You and I and a few others know the truth. Others choose to hide behind that mythical moral superiority stance.

ANPSTEEL
07-29-2010, 02:21 PM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And that's the issue here.

a. Act
b. Georgia DA
c. Media outcry (created by the DA)
d. Public outcry (created by the DA & media)
e. Rooney(s) position (created by all of the above)
=
f. Suspension

What we have here is an outcome (suspension) which has multiple causes-

and the core cause, being the "criminal act", while necessary, is clearly not sufficient to bring about a suspension.

If Ben had done A, and B never happened- and thus C, D, & E are non-existent or significantly reduced in impact...

we never see F the suspension.

???

So if Goodell is basically a media puppet, why on Earth did the owners approve him?

I have no doubt Goodell is significantly influenced by mass media-

as far as, why did the owners approve him?

If I had to guess... it would have been about money.

Money within the league- Jones, Kraft, Snyder....

and quite possibly mass media money influenced the decision as well.


But really- I have no flipping idea-

this goes without saying- but I can't stand what he is doing to the sport.

Djfan
07-29-2010, 04:09 PM
Rooney was his biggest advocate for the position.

feltdizz
07-29-2010, 08:16 PM
So why hasn't Eric Foster been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault.

So why hasn't Brandon Underwood been suspended? He was investigated for sexual assault on TWO WOMEN on the same night.

Goodell wants to suspend uncharged Ben? Fine.

But he has to suspend others in the same situation then.

And thats the issue here.

No one has a good answer for that dude. The only thing they'll come back with is that the Rooneys just don't put up with this kind of thing. When history shows that they have.

You and I and a few others know the truth. Others choose to hide behind that mythical moral superiority stance.

You know the truth? You have all the info and were in the meetings?

Our team does discipline our players more than other teams. We suspended Holmes when could have played. I'm not saying our FO is perfect or gets it right everytime but our track record is pretty good. Maybe our FO could have fought for Ben and had his suspension reduced or over turned.

I think the problem is the Nevada civil case... Ben can't speak up because of that pesky false allegation in Nevada(I think it's obvious she is loony) and that suit makes it harder to fight this case.

It real hard to say your client is completely innocent of assault when he has a civil suit open for assault and he can't speak up because it may be used against him.

As far as those other players... don't know them or care if they are or aren't suspended. It doesn't have anything to do with the Steelers. Pointing at other violations doesn't change Bens violation.
I truly believe the timing of Ben's incident did him in.

Crash
07-29-2010, 08:45 PM
Ben wasn't in violation until the media demanded his white head on a stick.

If he was black and investigated for rape and no charges? No suspension.

Foster and Underwood prove it.

fezziwig
07-29-2010, 10:05 PM
Rooneys obviously know what they are doing. I believe we will even do better under Art II. Ben caused this stuff so if your going to be upset with someone, be upset with Ben. I think the punishment was too harsh but the situation that was caused is also harsh.

Ben is the face of the team, the Rooneys and the city. If I had an employee that got the bad press that Ben received I, would have proabably got rid of him. Rooney is upset for good reason and whether Rooney had anything to do with Bens punishment or didn't fight in Bens favor well, it might be a collection of all the negative Ben stories that finally broke the camels back. remember, Ben was already facing charges when he decided to place himself in a no win situation.
Had this been another teams Qb or a team we hate Qb I, can hear the Steeler fans bitching up a storm and calling for Goodells head for not throwing the book at him.

I really don't think it's a white person vs black person issue. I think this episode with Ben was just the icing on the cake of frustration for Goodell and the zoo keeping he seems to have to do.

I for one was really chapped at Ben at the start and my feelings have cooled down. Be it that Ben is the poster boy now for the NFL trying to show the public that, toleration of these players is going to be dealt with well then, Ben shouldn't have been chasing tail in Neveda or Georgia.

Ben needed to be smart and he wasn't . Goodell and Rooney both have the final say so. Some people would rather allow the employees run the company and that just doesn't work.

I would rather have a decent team with decent players than cheer for a really good team with players I could not respect. Winning isn't everything or at least it shouldn't be.

If Ben was mega ego out of control like we heard this, might have happened at the best time. Our o-line looks to have more leaks than in the past, Santonio is gone so, might as well fix your QB when the team isn't up to snuff right now anyway. Hopefully the team gets a lot better from all this.

stlrz d
07-29-2010, 10:47 PM
Our team does discipline our players more than other teams. We suspended Holmes when could have played.

The Steelers suspended Holmes in order to avoid a stiffer penalty issued by the league. Once again your lack of knowledge shines through.

Fezziwig - So many things wrong with your post I can't even possibly address it all. Where is enip when you need him? One thing I will help you out with though: Ben wasn't facing charges while he was celebrating his birthday in GA. He had a pending CIVIL suit. Big difference. ;)

feltdizz
07-29-2010, 11:11 PM
I never heard the league was going to give Holmes a stiffer penalty.

Thanks for the insult... You really show how rude and ignorant you are with your responses.

stlrz d
07-29-2010, 11:12 PM
I never heard the league was going to give Holmes a stiffer penalty.

Thanks for the insult... You really show how rude and ignorant you are with your responses.

You're quite welcome.

Oviedo
07-30-2010, 07:46 AM
I never heard the league was going to give Holmes a stiffer penalty.

Thanks for the insult... You really show how rude and ignorant you are with your responses.

You're quite welcome.

Play nice boys

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-30-2010, 11:49 AM
The Steelers suspended Holmes in order to avoid a stiffer penalty issued by the league. Once again your lack of knowledge shines through.


The Steelers suspended Holmes to make a point that no one is above reproach. Once again your lack of knowledge shines thru.

Come on man I can say anything I want and PRETEND it's a fact to. What evidence do you have that this is true, Mark Madden?

Our world is to full of this kind of speculative crap, Ben's a rapist no he's not, the Steelers owners suck, no they don't, the commish is out to get Ben, the media hates Ben. For christ sake you could confuse this forum for an Oliver Stone flick at times.

cruzer8
07-30-2010, 02:23 PM
[quote="stlrz d":2r6qmqac]
The Steelers suspended Holmes in order to avoid a stiffer penalty issued by the league. Once again your lack of knowledge shines through.


The Steelers suspended Holmes to make a point that no one is above reproach. Once again your lack of knowledge shines thru.

Come on man I can say anything I want and PRETEND it's a fact to. What evidence do you have that this is true, Mark Madden?

Our world is to full of this kind of speculative crap, Ben's a rapist no he's not, the Steelers owners suck, no they don't, the commish is out to get Ben, the media hates Ben. For christ sake you could confuse this forum for an Oliver Stone flick at times.[/quote:2r6qmqac]

There were several articles in which the Steelers actually stated that. He's right. They were proactive in their suspension of Holmes in order to avoid a heavier suspension by the league.

fezziwig
07-30-2010, 05:39 PM
Our team does discipline our players more than other teams. We suspended Holmes when could have played.

The Steelers suspended Holmes in order to avoid a stiffer penalty issued by the league. Once again your lack of knowledge shines through.

Fezziwig - So many things wrong with your post I can't even possibly address it all. Where is enip when you need him? One thing I will help you out with though: Ben wasn't facing charges while he was celebrating his birthday in GA. He had a pending CIVIL suit. Big difference. ;)



Big difference only under the definition but still a big deal for Ben, the Rooneys and all that it affects.



So many things wrong ? You'll need to send me and others the mold you decided we all must fit in.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-30-2010, 07:17 PM
[quote="stlrz d":203kpeqj]
The Steelers suspended Holmes in order to avoid a stiffer penalty issued by the league. Once again your lack of knowledge shines through.


The Steelers suspended Holmes to make a point that no one is above reproach. Once again your lack of knowledge shines thru.

Come on man I can say anything I want and PRETEND it's a fact to. What evidence do you have that this is true, Mark Madden?

Our world is to full of this kind of speculative crap, Ben's a rapist no he's not, the Steelers owners suck, no they don't, the commish is out to get Ben, the media hates Ben. For christ sake you could confuse this forum for an Oliver Stone flick at times.

There were several articles in which the Steelers actually stated that. He's right. They were proactive in their suspension of Holmes in order to avoid a heavier suspension by the league.[/quote:203kpeqj]

Link? Source?

stlrz d
07-30-2010, 11:01 PM
[quote="stlrz d":1i42c3r1]
The Steelers suspended Holmes in order to avoid a stiffer penalty issued by the league. Once again your lack of knowledge shines through.


The Steelers suspended Holmes to make a point that no one is above reproach. Once again your lack of knowledge shines thru.

Come on man I can say anything I want and PRETEND it's a fact to. What evidence do you have that this is true, Mark Madden?

Our world is to full of this kind of speculative crap, Ben's a rapist no he's not, the Steelers owners suck, no they don't, the commish is out to get Ben, the media hates Ben. For christ sake you could confuse this forum for an Oliver Stone flick at times.[/quote:1i42c3r1]

If you want to look through the tens of thousands of google results that match "holmes suspension marijuana" or several derivatives thereof then go right ahead. It's not my fault your memory isn't as good as mine. There were articles posted here that stated the team deactivated Holmes for the Giants game in order to avoid a more severe punishment for Holmes by the league since it wasn't his first brush with the law.

I don't make $hit up. So if you're that interested then here are the keys to the internet...go out and find it. http://www.google.com