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fordfixer
07-28-2010, 12:04 AM
Steelers unsure if QB’s suspension will be cut

By ALAN ROBINSON,
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... hlisberger (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Agjhe96M58qZXUbN2e406DhDubYF?slug=ap-steelers-roethlisberger)

PITTSBURGH (AP)—The Pittsburgh Steelers expect to go through most or all of training camp without knowing the exact date when quarterback Ben Roethlisberger(notes) can play again.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell plans to visit the Steelers’ camp on Aug. 5, but the stop is not specifically related to Roethlisberger’s six-game suspension for violating the NFL’s personal conduct policy. Goodell is visiting seven training camps during the first week of August.

Goodell said the suspension could be reduced by two games if Roethlisberger has no more behavioral issues and does all that is asked by the league. Roethlisberger was suspended April 21 after being accused of, but not charged with, sexually assaulting a Georgia college student in March.

“Toward the end of training camp is the timetable to find out,” Steelers president Art Rooney II said Tuesday.

The Steelers’ final preseason game is Sept. 2. They open the season at home Sept. 12 at Atlanta, but the earliest that the two-time, Super Bowl-winning quarterback can return is Oct. 17 against Cleveland. Should Goodell decide not to reduce the suspension, Roethlisberger couldn’t play until Oct. 31 in New Orleans.

“All we’re concerned about is Ben and, at this point, it’s six games,” director of football operations Kevin Colbert said. “Whether it gets reduced or not, it’s up to the commissioner.”
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The uncertainty over when Roethlisberger can play could make an already challenging Steelers training camp even more difficult.

Coach Mike Tomlin must find enough snaps in camp and during the exhibition games for Roethlisberger and the starter at the beginning of the season—almost certainly, Byron Leftwich(notes). Leftwich took nearly all the snaps with the starters when Roethlisberger was barred from practicing during the offseason.

The Steelers also want to prepare third-year quarterback Dennis Dixon(notes), who started one game last season. Longtime backup Charlie Batch(notes) is also on the roster.

“I don’t think they have a set rotation, I don’t think they have an exact 1-2-3 order,” Colbert said of the coaches. “I think over the course of the preseason they’ll get that. They also have to factor in how much work Ben will get knowing that he won’t be available for the minimum of four games.”

While teams always work with multiple quarterbacks during camp, this is the first time an NFL team has known it must prepare two starting quarterbacks because of a suspension.

“No question it’s an unusual situation and it’s a challenge for our coaching staff and our players, but I think we can have the guys who can do it,” Rooney said. “I know they’re determined to get it right. I think by the time the season opens we’ll be ready.”

The Steelers open camp Friday at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe, with their first practice the following day. Roethlisberger can practice through the end of camp, but is barred from all team activities while suspended.

Whenever Roethlisberger returns, Colbert has no worries about him being ready to play despite the lack of practicing. Roethlisberger threw for a career-high 4,328 yards last season, with 26 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions, although the Steelers missed the playoffs a season after winning their second Super Bowl in four seasons.

“No, none whatsoever,” Colbert said. “Ben will be prepared. Ben is a super competitor that I think will come back with a real strong desire to prove that he’s still a great quarterback.”

Crash
07-28-2010, 12:14 AM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 08:46 AM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-28-2010, 02:44 PM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!


Stop throwing Art II in with Goodell, he has been at the helm since 2003 and delivered two championship teams in that time. The suspension is on the commish not the owner. If Art II concurs with the punishment so be it, it's HIS team and Ben is HIS employee. Private businesses have a right to expect and or demand responsible behaviour from their employees, I suspect most ordorinary people in Ben's situation would be outright fired and most likely face charges. I agree with your summorization of Goodell as a hypocrite but cannot agree that Art II is.

Oviedo
07-28-2010, 02:59 PM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!


Stop throwing Art II in with Goodell, he has been at the helm since 2003 and delivered two championship teams in that time. The suspension is on the commish not the owner. If Art II concurs with the punishment so be it, it's HIS team and Ben is HIS employee. Private businesses have a right to expect and or demand responsible behaviour from their employees, I suspect most ordorinary people in Ben's situation would be outright fired and most likely face charges. I agree with your summorization of Goodell as a hypocrite but cannot agree that Art II is.

Art II could have handled this without getting the commish involved. He served up Ben to the commish so the commish could show he treats white players just as harshly as he does black players. IMO---This was a drill in non-affirmative action because the national sports media publicly came out and put a microscope on how Goodell would deal with this after his dealings with Pacman and Vick.

Bottomline--if Ben is HIS employee, and it is HIS team why did he punt to the commish. Doesn't sound like someone interested in the interests of his team. Sounds like someone interested in his perception by the commish.

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
07-28-2010, 03:01 PM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!


Stop throwing Art II in with Goodell, he has been at the helm since 2003 and delivered two championship teams in that time. The suspension is on the commish not the owner. If Art II concurs with the punishment so be it, it's HIS team and Ben is HIS employee. Private businesses have a right to expect and or demand responsible behaviour from their employees, I suspect most ordorinary people in Ben's situation would be outright fired and most likely face charges. I agree with your summorization of Goodell as a hypocrite but cannot agree that Art II is.

Art II could have handled this without getting the commish involved. He served up Ben to the commish so the commish could show he treats white players just as harshly as he does black players. IMO---This was a drill in non-affirmative action because the national sports media publicly came out and put a microscope on how Goodell would deal with this after his dealings with Pacman and Vick.

Bottomline--if Ben is HIS employee, and it is HIS team why did he punt to the commish. Doesn't sound like someone interested in the interests of his team. Sounds like someone interested in his perception by the commish.


Goodell would have suspended him anyway without Art II's input, IMO.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 08:14 PM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!


Stop throwing Art II in with Goodell, he has been at the helm since 2003 and delivered two championship teams in that time. The suspension is on the commish not the owner. If Art II concurs with the punishment so be it, it's HIS team and Ben is HIS employee. Private businesses have a right to expect and or demand responsible behaviour from their employees, I suspect most ordorinary people in Ben's situation would be outright fired and most likely face charges. I agree with your summorization of Goodell as a hypocrite but cannot agree that Art II is.

A company that would fire an employee over unfounded accusations would be facing a pretty hefty lawsuit.

The Duke lacrosse players would be considered ordinary people, correct? Were they ever charged with anything?

steelz09
07-28-2010, 09:02 PM
[quote=Crash]What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!


Stop throwing Art II in with Goodell, he has been at the helm since 2003 and delivered two championship teams in that time. The suspension is on the commish not the owner. If Art II concurs with the punishment so be it, it's HIS team and Ben is HIS employee. Private businesses have a right to expect and or demand responsible behaviour from their employees, I suspect most ordorinary people in Ben's situation would be outright fired and most likely face charges. I agree with your summorization of Goodell as a hypocrite but cannot agree that Art II is.

A company that would fire an employee over unfounded accusations would be facing a pretty hefty lawsuit.

The Duke lacrosse players would be considered ordinary people, correct? Were they ever charged with anything?[/quote:m7lnhlb3]

No -- They weren't charged but you can't compare those kids to Ben. Ben is older and should be more responsible. He's a 100-mil dollar QB, and a SB / Pro Bowler QB quarterback for a marque league and franchise.

He is and SHOULD be held to a higher standard than some dumb young college kids that made a big mistake. Ben is also a role model for thousands of kids...

Sugar
07-28-2010, 09:11 PM
No -- They weren't charged but you can't compare those kids to Ben. Ben is older and should be more responsible. He's a 100-mil dollar QB, and a SB / Pro Bowler QB quarterback for a marque league and franchise.

He is and SHOULD be held to a higher standard than some dumb young college kids that made a big mistake. Ben is also a role model for thousands of kids...

See, I disagree. I can understand not liking Ben's behaviour. However, there is a standard and it's within the law. If that standard isn't violated then a person shouldn't be punished. Scorned, possibly, but not punished.

Ben is gonna make a whole lot of money one day in a tell-all book. Hopefully that will be long after the Commish and Rooney's have any say about his income.

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 10:31 PM
[quote=Crash]What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more recent real crimes is driving me nuts!!!!


Stop throwing Art II in with Goodell, he has been at the helm since 2003 and delivered two championship teams in that time. The suspension is on the commish not the owner. If Art II concurs with the punishment so be it, it's HIS team and Ben is HIS employee. Private businesses have a right to expect and or demand responsible behaviour from their employees, I suspect most ordorinary people in Ben's situation would be outright fired and most likely face charges. I agree with your summorization of Goodell as a hypocrite but cannot agree that Art II is.

A company that would fire an employee over unfounded accusations would be facing a pretty hefty lawsuit.

The Duke lacrosse players would be considered ordinary people, correct? Were they ever charged with anything?

No -- They weren't charged but you can't compare those kids to Ben. Ben is older and should be more responsible. He's a 100-mil dollar QB, and a SB / Pro Bowler QB quarterback for a marque league and franchise.

He is and SHOULD be held to a higher standard than some dumb young college kids that made a big mistake. Ben is also a role model for thousands of kids...[/quote:75ybrcfi]

All that higher standard crap is just that...crap.

Ben went out with some buddies and was falsely accused of something.

It doesn't matter where he falls chronologically when compared to other individuals who were falsely accused of something.

Steelers fans all over the country have their little feelings hurt because people are giving them a hard time about Ben. To effin' bad. If they'd get over this ridiculous idea that the Steelers are somehow morally superior to every other team perhaps their little thin skins wouldn't take such a beating? Perhaps if they weren't shooting their big mouths off about how morally superior the Steelers are the ribbing wouldn't sting as much?

The Steelers have had issues with players throughout their history just as other NFL teams have had. It's well documented. They are NOT morally superior to other teams. They may have a different business approach, but as for morals, same old same old.

Here's a link to all the NFL arrests going back to 2000. The Steelers have 16 arrests since 2000. One more than the Ravens 15. http://www.signonsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/ I did a sort by team and although I didn't go through the entire list (it became too tedious) I did go through several pages and 16 puts the Steelers at about the median for number of player arrests since 2000.

There is no moral superiority and once fans stop feeding on that BS maybe their little feelings won't hurt so much when the naughty fans of other teams *shudder* tease them.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 10:43 PM
The Steelers can't stop a player from committing a crime. It's not how many players get arrested, it's what the teams do to the players once they are arrested.

Do they defend the player and treat him with kid gloves or work with the player to ensure it doesn't happen again?

You guys have t all wrong with the Rooneys. They don't kick every player to the curb but they are swift with the discipline and if they feel they can replace you they get rid of you quickly. The Rooneys have standards but they aren't fools either. If Ben was up for a new contract best believe he would be on the blok right now.

The Rooneys will let good players get away with one or 2 infractions but if they continue down that road they are gone. They can't prevent the arrest or foolishness but they are pretty noble about dealing with it.

There is a reason damn near every player who has played for us say we run things different from most. If you don't agree maybe you don't know this team as well as you think. :tt1

NJ-STEELER
07-28-2010, 10:53 PM
What a misleading headline and article. It was always a fact that near the end of camp that it may be announced. Colbert and Rooney were at the Winter freaking Classic press conference and someone had to ask them.

If it is not reduced when Goodell ignores everything else that has been done by players over the past six weeks then that is a crime. I'm sure "Art the Collaborator" will have great words of support for Goodell that only a slimey lawyer could spout (sorry phillyesq :wink: ). The hypocrisy of Goodell's discipline of Ben and ignoring all the more

No -- They weren't charged but you can't compare those kids to Ben. Ben is older and should be more responsible. He's a 100-mil dollar QB, and a SB / Pro Bowler QB quarterback for a marque league and franchise.

He is and SHOULD be held to a higher standard than some dumb young college kids that made a big mistake. Ben is also a role model for thousands of kids...

All that higher standard crap is just that...crap.

Ben went out with some buddies and was falsely accused of something.

It doesn't matter where he falls chronologically when compared to other individuals who were falsely accused of something.

Steelers fans all over the country have their little feelings hurt because people are giving them a hard time about Ben. To effin' bad. If they'd get over this ridiculous idea that the Steelers are somehow morally superior to every other team perhaps their little thin skins wouldn't take such a beating? Perhaps if they weren't shooting their big mouths off about how morally superior the Steelers are the ribbing wouldn't sting as much?

The Steelers have had issues with players throughout their history just as other NFL teams have had. It's well documented. They are NOT morally superior to other teams. They may have a different business approach, but as for morals, same old same old.

Here's a link to all the NFL arrests going back to 2000. The Steelers have 16 arrests since 2000. One more than the Ravens 15. http://www.signonsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/ I did a sort by team and although I didn't go through the entire list (it became too tedious) I did go through several pages and 16 puts the Steelers at about the median for number of player arrests since 2000.

There is no moral superiority and once fans stop feeding on that BS maybe their little feelings won't hurt so much when the naughty fans of other teams *shudder* tease them.[/quote:35z6p9u2]

dont forget the fans being hypocrits as well

didn't they vote fats holmes and liscombe to some 'all time' steeler teams.

the horror

stlrz d
07-28-2010, 10:57 PM
If Ben was up for a new contract best believe he would be on the blok right now.

Irrelevant. Can't be proved or disproved so it doesn't apply.



There is a reason damn near every player who has played for us say we run things different from most. If you don't agree maybe you don't know this team as well as you think. :tt1

Yeah, they're talking about the business side of it. Maybe it's people like you who don't know the team as well as you think.

Of course you continue to prove with every post that you don't know much of anything. It's too bad you're not likable...then we could actually look past the idiocy that springs forth from your keyboard.

feltdizz
07-28-2010, 11:24 PM
If Ben was up for a new contract best believe he would be on the blok right now.

Irrelevant. Can't be proved or disproved so it doesn't apply.



There is a reason damn near every player who has played for us say we run things different from most. If you don't agree maybe you don't know this team as well as you think. :tt1

Yeah, they're talking about the business side of it. Maybe it's people like you who don't know the team as well as you think.

Of course you continue to prove with every post that you don't know much of anything. It's too bad you're not likable...then we could actually look past the idiocy that springs forth from your keyboard.

This whole episode with Ben is business. Wake up.

Oh... You think it's personal? Maybe that explains why every response you have to someone who doesn't agree with your view is filled with name calling.

I like how you avoided my response to your weak arrested player list. Oops, I forgot how turned on you get by players doing whatever they want off the field because they don't owe the Rooneys anything.

steelz09
07-29-2010, 06:28 PM
Personal? Get over it man. :roll:

I could care less about what any of these players, celebrities, or whatever do in their personal time. I care about how the Steelers perform. If they win a SB without Ben then good for the Steelers and Steeler Nation. I won't feel sorry for Ben.. it's his fault.

Does that sound personal? Your the one that takes all this personal crap.

I'm simply saying that a
franchise pro bowl / super bowl:
100-mil dollar qb
face of a franchise
face of a city
face of an organization
one of the faces of the NFL
and a role model for thousands of children should be held to a higher standard. They are professionals.

..

Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard than a couple young, stupid, lacrosse playing college students that aren't in the professional world, aren't role models, aren't a face of a billion dollar franchise and the NFL, and don't represent an entire city?

Wake up...What world are you living in?

feltdizz
07-29-2010, 07:26 PM
Personal? Get over it man. :roll:

I could care less about what any of these players, celebrities, or whatever do in their personal time. I care about how the Steelers perform. If they win a SB without Ben then good for the Steelers and Steeler Nation. I won't feel sorry for Ben.. it's his fault.

Does that sound personal? Your the one that takes all this personal crap.

I'm simply saying that a
franchise pro bowl / super bowl:
100-mil dollar qb
face of a franchise
face of a city
face of an organization
one of the faces of the NFL
and a role model for thousands of children should be held to a higher standard. They are professionals.

..

Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard than a couple young, stupid, lacrosse playing college students that aren't in the professional world, aren't role models, aren't a face of a billion dollar franchise and the NFL, and don't represent an entire city?

Wake up...What world are you living in?

I agree 100%. Not sure why you took offense to my response to StlrzD.

stlrz d
07-29-2010, 10:34 PM
Personal? Get over it man. :roll:

I could care less about what any of these players, celebrities, or whatever do in their personal time. I care about how the Steelers perform. If they win a SB without Ben then good for the Steelers and Steeler Nation. I won't feel sorry for Ben.. it's his fault.

Does that sound personal? Your the one that takes all this personal crap.

I'm simply saying that a
franchise pro bowl / super bowl:
100-mil dollar qb
face of a franchise
face of a city
face of an organization
one of the faces of the NFL
and a role model for thousands of children should be held to a higher standard. They are professionals.

..

Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard than a couple young, stupid, lacrosse playing college students that aren't in the professional world, aren't role models, aren't a face of a billion dollar franchise and the NFL, and don't represent an entire city?

Wake up...What world are you living in?

If a professional athlete is your child's role model then you are a bad parent.

I'm not taking anything personally, but people who make statements like "what Ben did to my team" are the ones taking this personally.

Ben did absolutely nothing wrong. He went to a bar with friends and was FALSELY accused of something. And for that supposed "fans" are ready to part ways with him and throw him under the bus every chance they get.

Those are the people taking this personally.

And your higher standard BS is just that. Ben was accused of something that he didn't do just like the Duke lacrosse players were accused of something they didn't do. Period.

Sugar
07-29-2010, 11:19 PM
If a professional athlete is your child's role model then you are a bad parent.

I'm not taking anything personally, but people who make statements like "what Ben did to my team" are the ones taking this personally.

Ben did absolutely nothing wrong. He went to a bar with friends and was FALSELY accused of something. And for that supposed "fans" are ready to part ways with him and throw him under the bus every chance they get.

Those are the people taking this personally.

And your higher standard BS is just that. Ben was accused of something that he didn't do just like the Duke lacrosse players were accused of something they didn't do. Period.

:Agree :Clap

I guess I really don't need to post anything more about this, D is doing quite nicely on his own.

steelz09
07-30-2010, 02:05 AM
Oh, I get it...

Now strlzd is telling people how to parent. Your an expert on more than 1 thing ;)

As far as the higher standard thing goes...these should all apply using your logic:

Standards

Ben = college lacrosse players

is to...

BP CEO = BP Gas Station Attendant

is to..

Army Private = U.S. President

Using your logic, then all of above are the equivalent and should be held to equal standards.

For example, since Ben shouldn't be held to a higher than a no-name, younger lacrosse player then your also saying...

The BP CEO is no more accountable and therefore should not be held to a higher standard for the gulf oil spill then a BP gas station attendant.

Additionally, a private in the US army should be held to the same standard as the United States President (Commander In Chief)...

lol! just sayin.... :roll:

Crash
07-30-2010, 02:10 AM
Why punish Ben because he's a great player? If a lesser NFL player is accused of rape shouldn't he get the same punishment as uncharged Ben, or is a rape investigation of a lesser player condoned by the NFL?

I'm sorry but once you suspend one uncharged NFL player because of an accusation of rape, any other player who gets accused (and especially charged) has to get the same treatment.

frankthetank1
07-30-2010, 08:03 AM
Why punish Ben because he's a great player? If a lesser NFL player is accused of rape shouldn't he get the same punishment as uncharged Ben, or is a rape investigation of a lesser player condoned by the NFL?

I'm sorry but once you suspend one uncharged NFL player because of an accusation of rape, any other player who gets accused (and especially charged) has to get the same treatment.

yeah you would hope that would be the case but it isnt. charged or not charged with a crime means nothing to goodell. high profile players and low profile players are not treated the same it seems. although vick is a pretty high profile player, not because of his talent though :wink:

Eich
07-30-2010, 08:36 AM
Ben did absolutely nothing wrong. He went to a bar with friends and was FALSELY accused of something. And for that supposed "fans" are ready to part ways with him and throw him under the bus every chance they get.



I see your point and somewhat agree with it. But I wouldn't say that Ben did NOTHING wrong.

After already having a sexual lawsuit pending against him, he decided to go on with Benapalooza at a location where a ton of college girls were going to be. Not too smart. I believe Ben said that one of the girls asked him back to the dorms and he said something like, "That is a lawsuit ready to happen". Well, partying and buying drinks for college girls was a lawsuit ready to happen as well. We all know under-aged college girls go to college bars with fake ids. This is nothing new.

But then Ben decides to fool around with a girl in the back bathroom of the club and the girl turns out to be so drunk, she can barely walk or speak properly. Again - given who he is and the fact that he's already got an assault lawsuit against him, this was really stupid.

So, while I don't think Ben did anything illegal, he sure did some stupid and very reckless things, particularly given the situation with his former accusation and pending lawsuit.

Ben should definitely be punished for being so stupid and so reckless with his image and the image of team and league. But the FANS should not be so heavily punished for his actions with a 4-6 game suspension. Make Ben go to counseling, make him pay a fine, chastise him publicly. But the suspension is absurd.

stlrz d
07-30-2010, 09:11 AM
Oh, I get it...

Now strlzd is telling people how to parent. Your an expert on more than 1 thing ;)

As far as the higher standard thing goes...these should all apply using your logic:

Standards

Ben = college lacrosse players

is to...

BP CEO = BP Gas Station Attendant

is to..

Army Private = U.S. President

Using your logic, then all of above are the equivalent and should be held to equal standards.

For example, since Ben shouldn't be held to a higher than a no-name, younger lacrosse player then your also saying...

The BP CEO is no more accountable and therefore should not be held to a higher standard for the gulf oil spill then a BP gas station attendant.

Additionally, a private in the US army should be held to the same standard as the United States President (Commander In Chief)...

lol! just sayin.... :roll:

LOL my a$$. You're another typical, "Ben did this to my team" fan who keeps moving the goal posts on him. You'd like nothing more than for him to sit at home twiddling his thumbs, only to come out when it's time to play football.

And yes, if athletes are role models for your children then you are a bad parent. A good parent teaches them to appreciate what athletes are capable of on the field, and even to strive to be like them on the field, but also to understand that they are just people too and capable of being bad people at that.

Eich - I live in an NFL city and have tended bar in this NFL city for many years. I see what NFL players do when they're out and therefore stand by my statement that Ben did nothing wrong. I can see your points as well but the bottom line is Ben went out to have a good time and was falsely accused of something.

steelz09
07-30-2010, 03:44 PM
You got me... You were right this whole time.... lol

I have a personal agenda to "attack" Ben. This thread belongs over at the old trib forums.

feltdizz
07-30-2010, 06:00 PM
If all players were paid the same then I would agree that all players should be punished the same. However those who are considered elite and high profile are held to a higher standard whether its by the league or their individual FO's

As far as the Duke boys being on Bens level. Not sure about that but I will say this... Both parties were warned about their behavior and told to keep it clean. Both parties put themselves in positions to be judged and based on their past transgressions its easy to see why the media would throw them under the bus.

Ben not being able to speak due to an open civil case says a lot about why he was treated as such.

stlrz d
07-30-2010, 10:48 PM
You got me... You were right this whole time.... lol

I have a personal agenda to "attack" Ben. This thread belongs over at the old trib forums.

No, you're taking it personally. That's entirely different than what you posted.

el oh el. :roll:

steelz09
07-30-2010, 11:15 PM
Your right...

:roll:

I never got a response to the standards comparisons that I made... can you please explain how the comparisons I made are any different than the Ben to Duke players comparison please???

Explain your "fuzzy" logic please. It'll be humorous have a similar explanation like was given for the 'role model' comment.

grotonsteel
07-30-2010, 11:38 PM
Your right...

:roll:

I never got a response to the standards comparisons that I made... can you please explain how the comparisons I made are any different than the Ben to Duke players comparison please???

Explain your "fuzzy" logic please. It'll be humorous to here similar to the explanation that was given for the 'role model' comment.

How about this example

BP CEO is accused of groping his secretary...no charges are filed/no evidence but he is asked to quit as per company policy/bad name to the company.

Now your BP gas station assistant hammers a pregnant woman on camera..He is charged for assault.

Do you believe since he is an employee who earn 40K/yr no action should be taken against him by the company??? What happens to company policies in this scenario???

Are we not not talking about code of conduct policy by A-Hole Commish.Should he not be applying it to all the players who break the rules?? Is NFL not an equal oppurtunity employer??

steelz09
07-31-2010, 12:07 AM
You are basically confirming what I am saying...

I never compared Ben's situation to another NFL player. It was to a Duke college student. And remember, my comment was based about level of "standards".... not legalities.

It's difficult to say when you compare how a situation should be handled if charges are filed compared to if no charges have been filed. Again, I'm not a lawyer and my comment wasn't based on that. My comment was based on someone being held to higher standards.

In your scenario, I still say that the CEO should be held to a higher standard even though he may not have been 'charged'. I tend to think of it in this manor. If the BP CEO got in trouble for something significant, what would typically happen?

CEO (Description: likely older, more responsible, educated, corporate experience)
1) If he is asked to leave then a re-organization could occur which is always a "shake-up" in the corporate world
2) Stock prices typically are impacted. Shareholders could lose significant amounts of money (possibly millions for high-stake shareholders)
3) Company rep takes a international hit. Situation will be all over the national and international media
4) Company ethical perception could be impacted
5) Possible jail time for CEO and you can be certain that further investigations will follow
6) Some people will stop going to BP stations (like now due to the oil spill) impacting future revenue.

BP Gas Station Attendant (likely less educated, possibly no corporate experience)
1) The person would typically be fired
2) Possible Jail Time
3) Local News / Newspaper story (national media outlets would not be interested)

and that's about it....

Comparing the two... which person would you hold to a higher standard? As I did before, we can more easily do a comparison between Ben and a Duke college student.

stlrz d
07-31-2010, 09:26 AM
Your right...

:roll:

I never got a response to the standards comparisons that I made... can you please explain how the comparisons I made are any different than the Ben to Duke players comparison please???

Explain your "fuzzy" logic please. It'll be humorous have a similar explanation like was given for the 'role model' comment.

It wasn't worth responding to. A crime is a crime is a crime no matter who commits it. Just as a false accusation is a false accusation is a false accusation no matter who it's leveled against.

All this higher standard talk is just another excuse for fans to hide behind because THEY hold athletes on "their" team to a higher standard. How many times have you seen someone post the following, "I don't care what players on other teams do, I care what players on MY team do"? That's not universal to the Steelers. Fans of all teams in all sports spout that BS.

We were all in our 20s at one point and every one of us wishes that when we were in our 20s we had the kind of money these guys have so we could be livin' it up just like they do. This higher standard BS that fans spew is out of envy for not having the same bank and the same opportunities as these guys. It's a love/hate relationship. Fans love them as performers on their team but then hate the privileges they receive...so when a player does something even REMOTELY questionable the judgment from the fans who wish they could be them rains down. Right along with the "if I were so-and-so athlete I would never do something like so-and-so did". Pretty fscking easy to say when you'll never be in that position.

grotonsteel
07-31-2010, 10:08 AM
Your right...

:roll:

I never got a response to the standards comparisons that I made... can you please explain how the comparisons I made are any different than the Ben to Duke players comparison please???

Explain your "fuzzy" logic please. It'll be humorous have a similar explanation like was given for the 'role model' comment.

It wasn't worth responding to. A crime is a crime is a crime no matter who commits it. Just as a false accusation is a false accusation is a false accusation no matter who it's leveled against.

All this higher standard talk is just another excuse for fans to hide behind because THEY hold athletes on "their" team to a higher standard. How many times have you seen someone post the following, "I don't care what players on other teams do, I care what players on MY team do"? That's not universal to the Steelers. Fans of all teams in all sports spout that BS.

We were all in our 20s at one point and every one of us wishes that when we were in our 20s we had the kind of money these guys have so we could be livin' it up just like they do. This higher standard BS that fans spew is out of envy for not having the same bank and the same opportunities as these guys. It's a love/hate relationship. Fans love them as performers on their team but then hate the privileges they receive...so when a player does something even REMOTELY questionable the judgment from the fans who wish they could be them rains down. Right along with the "if I were so-and-so athlete I would never do something like so-and-so did". Pretty fscking easy to say when you'll never be in that position.

That is a slam dunk....

:Bow :Bow :Bow :Bow

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

BURGH86STEEL
07-31-2010, 10:46 AM
Your right...

:roll:

I never got a response to the standards comparisons that I made... can you please explain how the comparisons I made are any different than the Ben to Duke players comparison please???

Explain your "fuzzy" logic please. It'll be humorous have a similar explanation like was given for the 'role model' comment.

It wasn't worth responding to. A crime is a crime is a crime no matter who commits it. Just as a false accusation is a false accusation is a false accusation no matter who it's leveled against.

All this higher standard talk is just another excuse for fans to hide behind because THEY hold athletes on "their" team to a higher standard. How many times have you seen someone post the following, "I don't care what players on other teams do, I care what players on MY team do"? That's not universal to the Steelers. Fans of all teams in all sports spout that BS.

We were all in our 20s at one point and every one of us wishes that when we were in our 20s we had the kind of money these guys have so we could be livin' it up just like they do. This higher standard BS that fans spew is out of envy for not having the same bank and the same opportunities as these guys. It's a love/hate relationship. Fans love them as performers on their team but then hate the privileges they receive...so when a player does something even REMOTELY questionable the judgment from the fans who wish they could be them rains down. Right along with the "if I were so-and-so athlete I would never do something like so-and-so did". Pretty fscking easy to say when you'll never be in that position.

Having high standards is not BS for a lot of people. Many people have values and standards by which we live. Many people, including Ben, the organization, and NFL thought Ben should conduct himself in a manner that lives up to certain standards and values. Ben knew the standards and values that were set. He did not live up to those expectations. That is basically what it boils down to for a lot for a lot of people, including Ben.

steelz09
07-31-2010, 11:07 AM
Your right...

:roll:

I never got a response to the standards comparisons that I made... can you please explain how the comparisons I made are any different than the Ben to Duke players comparison please???

Explain your "fuzzy" logic please. It'll be humorous have a similar explanation like was given for the 'role model' comment.

It wasn't worth responding to. A crime is a crime is a crime no matter who commits it. Just as a false accusation is a false accusation is a false accusation no matter who it's leveled against.

All this higher standard talk is just another excuse for fans to hide behind because THEY hold athletes on "their" team to a higher standard. How many times have you seen someone post the following, "I don't care what players on other teams do, I care what players on MY team do"? That's not universal to the Steelers. Fans of all teams in all sports spout that BS.

We were all in our 20s at one point and every one of us wishes that when we were in our 20s we had the kind of money these guys have so we could be livin' it up just like they do. This higher standard BS that fans spew is out of envy for not having the same bank and the same opportunities as these guys. It's a love/hate relationship. Fans love them as performers on their team but then hate the privileges they receive...so when a player does something even REMOTELY questionable the judgment from the fans who wish they could be them rains down. Right along with the "if I were so-and-so athlete I would never do something like so-and-so did". Pretty fscking easy to say when you'll never be in that position.

Having high standards is not BS for a lot of people. Many people have values and standards by which we live. Many people, including Ben, the organization, and NFL thought Ben should conduct himself in a manner that lives up to certain standards and values. Ben knew the standards and values that were set. He did not live up to those expectations. That is basically what it boils down to for a lot for a lot of people, including Ben.

:Agree

Very simply put and that is exactly what we're referring too. Like my comparison to the president...

I would hold the Commander in Chief to a higher standard than a new army private. The Command in Chief should and will be held to a higher standard due to the rank. I don't know how to explain that in any more clarity.

Can anyone honestly say that they would hold a army private to the same standards as the Commander in Chief? I didn't think so.

For example, The army private can do certain things without such levels of criticism because of the status.. he/she isn't under the spotlight to the extent of the command in chief regarding every decision. It's not to say that both may or may not make the same wrong decisions. It's just the the commander in chief will get criticized more because of his rank, position, etc. That all comes with the position and being under the microscope.

Yes, a crime is a crime is a crime (obviously!). However, this conversation isn't about crimes... it's about standards for certain individuals.

The same comparison can be made for Ben....

feltdizz
07-31-2010, 12:09 PM
:Agree this was never about a crime.

It's about the expectations for a $100 million dollar QB who already has an open civil case with his name next to rape. There are expectations and Ben didn't live up to them.

I have no idea why people are trashing the Steeler way. While I agree our players get in just as much trouble as other teams our FO is one of the best at taming bad behavior.

grotonsteel
07-31-2010, 12:56 PM
taming bad behavior.

Bad behavior???

When did a single guy on his b'day going to a club became a bad behavior????????? :roll:

feltdizz
07-31-2010, 06:09 PM
taming bad behavior.

Bad behavior???

When did a single guy on his b'day going to a club became a bad behavior????????? :roll:

When it results in a second accusation of sexual assualt :roll:

Again.... it's not about a crime... it's about perception. The Nevada case is like a stacked deck. No need for Ben to gamble when the deck is stacked against him.

stlrz d
07-31-2010, 06:28 PM
taming bad behavior.

Bad behavior???

When did a single guy on his b'day going to a club became a bad behavior????????? :roll:

That's the whole point they'll never, ever get man. Ever.

Ben did nothing wrong, was falsely accused of something and suddenly he's "putting himself in a bad position" and the fact that he's contrite about it is evidence that he did something wrong.

He's contrite about it so he can get back to kicking a$$ on the football field after 4 games and not 6. Period.

Perception doesn't mean a pinch of $hit when other players are being CONVICTED of crimes and getting off with no suspension. Ben was railroaded by the media from day one.

steelz09
07-31-2010, 08:23 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

feltdizz
07-31-2010, 09:53 PM
taming bad behavior.

Bad behavior???

When did a single guy on his b'day going to a club became a bad behavior????????? :roll:

That's the whole point they'll never, ever get man. Ever.

Ben did nothing wrong, was falsely accused of something and suddenly he's "putting himself in a bad position" and the fact that he's contrite about it is evidence that he did something wrong.

He's contrite about it so he can get back to kicking a$$ on the football field after 4 games and not 6. Period.

Perception doesn't mean a pinch of $hit when other players are being CONVICTED of crimes and getting off with no suspension. Ben was railroaded by the media from day one.

Perception is everything.... you keep bringing up crimes and convictions... no one cares about those petty bar brawls besides Steeler fans who want justice.

That's just the way it is when you win 2 SB's... Ben is on a different level than these other jokers who no one cares about.

stlrz d
07-31-2010, 10:17 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

I'm sure you always check the ID of anyone you buy a drink for...especially in a bar where bouncers are checking at the door, right?

:roll: right back atcha.

steelz09
07-31-2010, 10:35 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

I'm sure you always check the ID of anyone you buy a drink for...especially in a bar where bouncers are checking at the door, right?

:roll: right back atcha.

Like you said .. the law is the law is the law .. as you would say. He still broke it by providing alcohol to a underage girl. Just using your own words my friend.

feltdizz
07-31-2010, 10:40 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

I'm sure you always check the ID of anyone you buy a drink for...especially in a bar where bouncers are checking at the door, right?

:roll: right back atcha.

Like you said .. the law is the law is the law .. as you would say. He still broke it by providing alcohol to a underage girl. Just using your own words my friend.

I don't think Ben should have to ID every girl at the bar....

but only a fool would think every chick at a college bar that is 18 and up would be 21 and legit.

Crash
07-31-2010, 11:12 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

They had fake IDs and over 21 wrist bands. Thats the clubs responsibility as soon as they place the tray on the bar.

Crash
07-31-2010, 11:13 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

So why wasn't Willie Colon suspended? He paid one of the tabs, if an under aged girl had one drink on that tab, Colon broke the law.

grotonsteel
07-31-2010, 11:15 PM
Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? :roll:

I'm sure you always check the ID of anyone you buy a drink for...especially in a bar where bouncers are checking at the door, right?

:roll: right back atcha.

Like you said .. the law is the law is the law .. as you would say. He still broke it by providing alcohol to a underage girl. Just using your own words my friend.

I don't think Ben should have to ID every girl at the bar....

but only a fool would think every chick at a college bar that is 18 and up would be 21 and legit.

I think you don't frequent clubs/pubs which are 18 and over.

When you visit these clubs if you are 21 and up bouncers provide you a wrist brand. Some clubs might offer a stamp on your hand instead of wrist band. When you approach a girl and offer her a drink you can see the wrist band pretty easily. The wrist band becomes their license to drink and this how you differentiate an 18 or 21 and up girl in these clubs.

Even bartenders look at wristband when you ask them for a drink. They don't ask for your id there. If they don't see the wristband they don't serve you a drink simple or request you to get a wristband.

Now if a person or bartender provide a girl with a drink who has a wristband provided by the club and if the girl entered club using a fake id i don't think that person or bartender should be held responsible for serving alcohol to an under 21 girl. Its between the club management and the girl who created a fake id.

pfelix73
07-31-2010, 11:24 PM
"Not to fuel the fire.. but he did do something wrong...

serving alcohol to underage girls...

The law is the law is the law... remember? "

OK- So what about when Heinz Field employees representing the Steelers and the NFL are giving out drinks to underage people at all their home games? Sounds like a double standard to me.


I agree with StlrzD on this. And just as advertised, Ben had a great 1st day of camp with everyone giving him a warm reception. We need to move on and forget about this crap. It just isn't worth it.

:tt1

stlrz d
08-01-2010, 12:23 AM
Stop introducing facts you guys. Ben is supposed to ID everyone he buys a drink for. Willie Colon too!

:lol:

steelz09
08-01-2010, 02:17 AM
What are the facts again?
-----------------------------

Ben served alcohol to under aged girls: Fact

Ben had an existing pending assault complaint: Fact

Ben went into the bathroom with a very intoxicated under aged girl with a o-lineman
guarding the door: Fact

Ben thought she was 21 based on the carding at the door: Fact

Does that still make it illegal that he was serving the girl alcohol: Fact

Was Ben accused of sexual assault: Fact (twice)

Has been ever been convicted of sexual assault: False

Is Ben being held to a higher standard by most except a select few: Fact

Is jhansle1 a huge Ben fan: Fact (although stlrzd thinks otherwise)

Can jhansle1 criticize the Steelers significantly by not wearing Steelers goggles: Fact

Can others do the same criticizing and push their love for the Steelers aside and look at situations for what they are and be objective in their analysis: False

...

I'm sure I can think of a few others but I'll stop here... maybe someone else can continue.

Crash
08-01-2010, 02:19 AM
Ben served alcohol to under aged girls: Fact

No that isn't fact. He didn't buy them drinks. Read Goodell's words carefully on the alcohol involved.

If anything Willie Colon did, and the Trooper did, they paid the tabs.

stlrz d
08-01-2010, 08:00 AM
What are the facts again?
-----------------------------

Ben served alcohol to under aged girls: Fact Wrong. You've obviously never tended bar before. It is the responsibility of the establishment to determine which patrons are legal age. No matter who underage patrons are served by the establisment, and possibly even the bartender receive the fine. I've been a bartender (retired now) for over 18 years.

Ben had an existing pending assault complaint: Fact To quote Joey Porter from America's game, "And? So?"

Ben went into the bathroom with a very intoxicated under aged girl with a o-lineman
guarding the door: Fact Hearsay. Only the accuser's friend says this.

Ben thought she was 21 based on the carding at the door: Fact And there is nothing wrong with that. See response to your "fact" #1

Does that still make it illegal that he was serving the girl alcohol: Fact Again, see response to "fact" #1.

Was Ben accused of sexual assault: Fact (twice) Peezy, "And? So?"

Has been ever been convicted of sexual assault: False Now you're getting it.

Is Ben being held to a higher standard by most except a select few: Fact Here we go again, "And? So?" People can hold him to the highest standards they want to...it's not up to him to live up to some standards that are set by others just because he is the QB of "their" team.

Is jhansle1 a huge Ben fan: Fact (although stlrzd thinks otherwise) And rightly so. I can't recall even one positive thing you've ever posted about him.

Can jhansle1 criticize the Steelers significantly by not wearing Steelers goggles: Fact I've found the bulk of your criticisms to be of the "these guys should be perfect in everything they do, never mind that they are competing against other professionals I want perfection" variety.

Can others do the same criticizing and push their love for the Steelers aside and look at situations for what they are and be objective in their analysis: False Again incorrect. Some of us can see that Ben was railroaded. We saw it from the start and it continues to become increasingly clear.

...

I'm sure I can think of a few others but I'll stop here... maybe someone else can continue.

grotonsteel
08-01-2010, 11:59 AM
What are the facts again?
-----------------------------



Is Ben being held to a higher standard by most except a select few: Fact




High Standards according to some fans:

He should tip bartenders heavily/pay cover charges/should not have sex till he gets married/Should be drinking only cold milk /should never go out of his house after 6:00PM/give autograph to each and every person in this world/should never throw an INT/should never get sacked/should throw ball away even when it is 3rd and 5 at your own 10/should play like Peyton manning/should throw 80 yards passes/should throw 5 yard passes on 3rd and 7

If he breaks anything mentioned above he is not up to our higher standards. HE is disappointing us..Give me a break....

Just have high standards for any players based on performance on field since most of us don't know how they are in real life. My :2c

feltdizz
08-01-2010, 01:10 PM
LMAO at the guys who think Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard. He is the leader of our team and our franchise QB. They pay him an insane amount of money just to throw TD's... when he is off the field he can do whatever he wants.

These same guys will tell us what Ben says isn't what he feels because they "know Ben" LOL!!!

grotonsteel
08-01-2010, 02:00 PM
LMAO at the guys who think Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard. He is the leader of our team and our franchise QB. They pay him an insane amount of money just to throw TD's... when he is off the field he can do whatever he wants.


Well then what are we saying. HE can do whatever he wants off field as long as he don't break any laws.

Now why should people like you consider his off field behavior in so called High Standards.

Judge him how he plays on the field and not off it.

I would seriously want to know reaction of Ben haters if they are suspended from company based on accusations only.

Boomerang
08-01-2010, 02:28 PM
If Ben was up for a new contract best believe he would be on the blok right now.

Irrelevant. Can't be proved or disproved so it doesn't apply.



There is a reason damn near every player who has played for us say we run things different from most. If you don't agree maybe you don't know this team as well as you think. :tt1

Yeah, they're talking about the business side of it. Maybe it's people like you who don't know the team as well as you think.

Of course you continue to prove with every post that you don't know much of anything. It's too bad you're not likable...then we could actually look past the idiocy that springs forth from your keyboard.

This whole episode with Ben is business. Wake up.

Oh... You think it's personal? Maybe that explains why every response you have to someone who doesn't agree with your view is filled with name calling.

I like how you avoided my response to your weak arrested player list. Oops, I forgot how turned on you get by players doing whatever they want off the field because they don't owe the Rooneys anything.

Easy Felt. Doesn't STLRZD threaten to leave a site for good when his feelings are hurt? He is like the kid on the playground that when the call doesn't go in his favor he leaves until everyone changes the call then he comes back. What is another word for Cat? That is STLRZD.

feltdizz
08-01-2010, 02:51 PM
LMAO at the guys who think Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard. He is the leader of our team and our franchise QB. They pay him an insane amount of money just to throw TD's... when he is off the field he can do whatever he wants.


Well then what are we saying. HE can do whatever he wants off field as long as he don't break any laws.

Now why should people like you consider his off field behavior in so called High Standards.

Judge him how he plays on the field and not off it.

I would seriously want to know reaction of Ben haters if they are suspended from company based on accusations only.

Anything Ben does off the field that doesn't stop him from getting on the field isn't any real concern of mine. When his off-field behavior is stopping him from being on the field... it's a problem. When he increases his risk it's a concern. No helmet increases his risk, McNulty case increased his risk, 18 and up college bar DTF, shots, and VIP room increased his risk

It's like a married guy hanging out with the town skank... he may not cheat but it sure looks bad when he comes home at 2AM and his wife finds out who he was with... he is held to a higher standard and increased his risk of being accused of something he didn't do. If he already has an accusation of cheating on his resume it doesn't help his argument and he will sleep on the couch.

grotonsteel
08-01-2010, 09:52 PM
LMAO at the guys who think Ben shouldn't be held to a higher standard. He is the leader of our team and our franchise QB. They pay him an insane amount of money just to throw TD's... when he is off the field he can do whatever he wants.


Well then what are we saying. HE can do whatever he wants off field as long as he don't break any laws.

Now why should people like you consider his off field behavior in so called High Standards.

Judge him how he plays on the field and not off it.

I would seriously want to know reaction of Ben haters if they are suspended from company based on accusations only.


It's like a married guy hanging out with the town skank... he may not cheat but it sure looks bad when he comes home at 2AM and his wife finds out who he was with... he is held to a higher standard and increased his risk of being accused of something he didn't do. If he already has an accusation of cheating on his resume it doesn't help his argument and he will sleep on the couch.

Apples to Oranges.

Big Ben is single as far as i know. Single guys can hang out with town skanks.

feltdizz
08-01-2010, 11:12 PM
Why am I not surprised the analogy flew over your head...

You are right, Ben can hang out with skanks and crack whores.

Go Steelers! :tt2

steelz09
08-02-2010, 12:00 AM
:Agree

It's an analogy for crying out loud and it's 100% valid. People think your a "hater" if you criticize a player, coach or whatever.

It's simply wanting improvements to be made, nothing more and nothing else.

I'm come to the conclusion that it's not even worth to continue to debate anymore.

"Common sense isn't so common"

stlrz d
08-02-2010, 12:03 AM
:Agree

It's an analogy for crying out loud and it's 100% valid. People think your a "hater" if you criticize a player, coach or whatever.

It's simply wanting improvements to be made, nothing more and nothing else.

I'm come to the conclusion that it's not even worth to continue to debate anymore.

"Common sense isn't so common"

At least you got that right.

stlrz d
08-02-2010, 12:06 AM
If Ben was up for a new contract best believe he would be on the blok right now.

Irrelevant. Can't be proved or disproved so it doesn't apply.



There is a reason damn near every player who has played for us say we run things different from most. If you don't agree maybe you don't know this team as well as you think. :tt1

Yeah, they're talking about the business side of it. Maybe it's people like you who don't know the team as well as you think.

Of course you continue to prove with every post that you don't know much of anything. It's too bad you're not likable...then we could actually look past the idiocy that springs forth from your keyboard.

This whole episode with Ben is business. Wake up.

Oh... You think it's personal? Maybe that explains why every response you have to someone who doesn't agree with your view is filled with name calling.

I like how you avoided my response to your weak arrested player list. Oops, I forgot how turned on you get by players doing whatever they want off the field because they don't owe the Rooneys anything.

Easy Felt. Doesn't STLRZD threaten to leave a site for good when his feelings are hurt? He is like the kid on the playground that when the call doesn't go in his favor he leaves until everyone changes the call then he comes back. What is another word for Cat? That is STLRZD.

You should have chosen "Herpes" as your username. It would be much more appropriate. You're a virus that keeps coming back despite no one wanting you back.

Boomerang
08-02-2010, 12:34 AM
[quote=feltdizz] If Ben was up for a new contract best believe he would be on the blok right now.

Irrelevant. Can't be proved or disproved so it doesn't apply.



There is a reason damn near every player who has played for us say we run things different from most. If you don't agree maybe you don't know this team as well as you think. :tt1

Yeah, they're talking about the business side of it. Maybe it's people like you who don't know the team as well as you think.

Of course you continue to prove with every post that you don't know much of anything. It's too bad you're not likable...then we could actually look past the idiocy that springs forth from your keyboard.

This whole episode with Ben is business. Wake up.

Oh... You think it's personal? Maybe that explains why every response you have to someone who doesn't agree with your view is filled with name calling.

I like how you avoided my response to your weak arrested player list. Oops, I forgot how turned on you get by players doing whatever they want off the field because they don't owe the Rooneys anything.

Easy Felt. Doesn't STLRZD threaten to leave a site for good when his feelings are hurt? He is like the kid on the playground that when the call doesn't go in his favor he leaves until everyone changes the call then he comes back. What is another word for Cat? That is STLRZD.

You should have chosen "Herpes" as your username. It would be much more appropriate. You're a virus that keeps coming back despite no one wanting you back.[/quote:2s5k51s8]

"Reincarnation" would have been another but I am not sure who we are talking about. What's your beef with that dude did he screw your girlfriend or something. Oh wait, I was assuming you were into chicks, sorry.

birtikidis
08-02-2010, 01:12 AM
guys, the serving alcohol to under age people arguement is pretty weak. No lie, I was at a club in gaiensville and saw some of my former students there. not a one of them were over 18. in fact two were 16. and each and every one of them had a wrist band. how'd they get it you ask? simple, they had someone else slide theres off and then they slid there's on. I told one of the cops outside the club and they didn't do a damn thing. sounds to me like he was in a college town where bouncers are a little slack on their judgement (I know where I went to school they were slack.. gotta love EUP)... I used to get into bars when I was in high school when I lived near Edinboro.

feltdizz
08-02-2010, 07:02 AM
guys, the serving alcohol to under age people arguement is pretty weak. No lie, I was at a club in gaiensville and saw some of my former students there. not a one of them were over 18. in fact two were 16. and each and every one of them had a wrist band. how'd they get it you ask? simple, they had someone else slide theres off and then they slid there's on. I told one of the cops outside the club and they didn't do a damn thing. sounds to me like he was in a college town where bouncers are a little slack on their judgement (I know where I went to school they were slack.. gotta love EUP)... I used to get into bars when I was in high school when I lived near Edinboro.

I think you are making our point though birt regarding a college bar. If you had a civil suit with your name attached and were worth a 100 mill I would think t was a bad idea to party at that bar and buy drinks.

We all know how college bars can be and how lax the bouncers and cops usually are... It's notthe best place for a guy of Ben's stature to have fun given the target on his back IMO.

Did you buy a round of shots for the kids since they had wrist bands?

ikestops85
08-02-2010, 10:52 AM
guys, the serving alcohol to under age people arguement is pretty weak. No lie, I was at a club in gaiensville and saw some of my former students there. not a one of them were over 18. in fact two were 16. and each and every one of them had a wrist band. how'd they get it you ask? simple, they had someone else slide theres off and then they slid there's on. I told one of the cops outside the club and they didn't do a damn thing. sounds to me like he was in a college town where bouncers are a little slack on their judgement (I know where I went to school they were slack.. gotta love EUP)... I used to get into bars when I was in high school when I lived near Edinboro.

I think you are making our point though birt regarding a college bar. If you had a civil suit with your name attached and were worth a 100 mill I would think t was a bad idea to party at that bar and buy drinks.

We all know how college bars can be and how lax the bouncers and cops usually are... It's notthe best place for a guy of Ben's stature to have fun given the target on his back IMO.

Did you buy a round of shots for the kids since they had wrist bands?

Ben never bought a round of shots for underage kids either. Why can't some of you understand this? The bar SERVED the shots to the underaged girls and someone else PAID for them. So technically Ben had nothing to do with buying alcohol for underaged girls.

Now I'm sure you are basing your argument on the fact Ben said "Take my shot, bitches" or something to that effect. Is that where he violated the so called "higher standards"?

How do you expect Ben to live up to a standard that only exists in the commissioners mind? That is my problem with this entire incident. If their are clear standards which state Ben can't drink at bars that admit underage patrons or Ben can't go to a strip club or Ben isn't allowed out after 6:00 pm or any clear definitive statement that Ben violated I would not have a problem with the suspension.

I do have a problem with saying he violated a mythical "higher standard". I've said this many times but what constitutes that standard? Does a speeding ticket violate it? What about reckless driving? What about adultery? How about homosexuality? Can you be suspended for these things?

I also have a problem with suspending players for things out of their control. For example, Vicks dog fighting buddy showing up at his birthday party or the amount of publicity an act receives or random unprovable accusations. Players need to be held accountable for their own actions ... not the actions of others.

feltdizz
08-02-2010, 11:30 AM
You may be right Ike. However, I think you are looking at it from a law angle. I'm looking at it from a corporate angle. I don't think the Rooneys or Goodell care who actual paid the tab.

I don't care if the bar put the tab on the house and the drinks were free. Ben has too much to lose to be in a bar with college chicks that surely have a few under aged girls woith wrist bands. Now Ben may have gone to this bar a bunch of times without incident but if I'm the Rooneys or his lawyer and I found out he was there I woud advise against it.

It may not seem fair but them be the breaks when you have a civil suit with your name in it next to rape. A fun night out can easily go wrong, drunk college chicks at an 18 and up bar certainly increases the risk

feltdizz
08-02-2010, 11:53 AM
One other thing... I agree players SHOULD be held acountable for their actions but the unfortunate reality is they are usually held accountable for their actions and the actions of those around them.

cruzer8
08-02-2010, 12:52 PM
guys, the serving alcohol to under age people arguement is pretty weak. No lie, I was at a club in gaiensville and saw some of my former students there. not a one of them were over 18. in fact two were 16. and each and every one of them had a wrist band. how'd they get it you ask? simple, they had someone else slide theres off and then they slid there's on. I told one of the cops outside the club and they didn't do a damn thing. sounds to me like he was in a college town where bouncers are a little slack on their judgement (I know where I went to school they were slack.. gotta love EUP)... I used to get into bars when I was in high school when I lived near Edinboro.

I think you are making our point though birt regarding a college bar. If you had a civil suit with your name attached and were worth a 100 mill I would think t was a bad idea to party at that bar and buy drinks.

We all know how college bars can be and how lax the bouncers and cops usually are... It's notthe best place for a guy of Ben's stature to have fun given the target on his back IMO.

Did you buy a round of shots for the kids since they had wrist bands?

Ben never bought a round of shots for underage kids either. Why can't some of you understand this? The bar SERVED the shots to the underaged girls and someone else PAID for them. So technically Ben had nothing to do with buying alcohol for underaged girls.

Now I'm sure you are basing your argument on the fact Ben said "Take my shot, bitches" or something to that effect. Is that where he violated the so called "higher standards"?

How do you expect Ben to live up to a standard that only exists in the commissioners mind? That is my problem with this entire incident. If their are clear standards which state Ben can't drink at bars that admit underage patrons or Ben can't go to a strip club or Ben isn't allowed out after 6:00 pm or any clear definitive statement that Ben violated I would not have a problem with the suspension.

I do have a problem with saying he violated a mythical "higher standard". I've said this many times but what constitutes that standard? Does a speeding ticket violate it? What about reckless driving? What about adultery? How about homosexuality? Can you be suspended for these things?

I also have a problem with suspending players for things out of their control. For example, Vicks dog fighting buddy showing up at his birthday party or the amount of publicity an act receives or random unprovable accusations. Players need to be held accountable for their own actions ... not the actions of others.

:Clap

birtikidis
08-02-2010, 02:30 PM
guys, the serving alcohol to under age people arguement is pretty weak. No lie, I was at a club in gaiensville and saw some of my former students there. not a one of them were over 18. in fact two were 16. and each and every one of them had a wrist band. how'd they get it you ask? simple, they had someone else slide theres off and then they slid there's on. I told one of the cops outside the club and they didn't do a damn thing. sounds to me like he was in a college town where bouncers are a little slack on their judgement (I know where I went to school they were slack.. gotta love EUP)... I used to get into bars when I was in high school when I lived near Edinboro.

I think you are making our point though birt regarding a college bar. If you had a civil suit with your name attached and were worth a 100 mill I would think t was a bad idea to party at that bar and buy drinks.

We all know how college bars can be and how lax the bouncers and cops usually are... It's notthe best place for a guy of Ben's stature to have fun given the target on his back IMO.

Did you buy a round of shots for the kids since they had wrist bands?
I kind of view it this way: It's where I live (Ben has a house near there), so yea I can go out and drink alcohol anywhere I want to. If Vince Young can beat up strippers why can't Ben go into a college bar? when i was teaching, they told us not to go to bars or strip clubs. it's a job not my nanny.

feltdizz
08-02-2010, 05:27 PM
Well Ben felt the same way and ended up being accused of assualt. Its a risk he was willing to take and it had a bad ending. Thank goodness Ben wants to keep his job and is doing all the right things now. I would hate to see him right back in a bar getting another charge because he feels like he is being nannied.

grotonsteel
08-02-2010, 05:52 PM
I would hate to see him right back in a bar

:lol: :lol: :lol:

ikestops85
08-02-2010, 06:10 PM
You may be right Ike. However, I think you are looking at it from a law angle. I'm looking at it from a corporate angle. I don't think the Rooneys or Goodell care who actual paid the tab.

I don't care if the bar put the tab on the house and the drinks were free. Ben has too much to lose to be in a bar with college chicks that surely have a few under aged girls woith wrist bands. Now Ben may have gone to this bar a bunch of times without incident but if I'm the Rooneys or his lawyer and I found out he was there I woud advise against it.

It may not seem fair but them be the breaks when you have a civil suit with your name in it next to rape. A fun night out can easily go wrong, drunk college chicks at an 18 and up bar certainly increases the risk

I understand they are looking at it from a corporate angle. I just looked at it from a legal standpoint to see if they had a leg to stand on. They don't. So let me ask you this question.

Who is the one standing on the moral high ground? The person who has done NOTHING wrong aside from being stupid or the people who are capitulating to special interests and media sensationalism by punishing a guy just to make their lives easier.

Kinda funny but the more I think of it Ben is on the moral high ground with this issue and I didn't think that way when this first broke.

feltdizz
08-02-2010, 06:15 PM
I would hate to see him right back in a bar

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Laugh if you want but people keep talking like Ben can continue down the same road because he was a victim of slut love and didn't do anything wrong.

stlrz d
08-02-2010, 09:42 PM
You may be right Ike. However, I think you are looking at it from a law angle. I'm looking at it from a corporate angle. I don't think the Rooneys or Goodell care who actual paid the tab.

I don't care if the bar put the tab on the house and the drinks were free. Ben has too much to lose to be in a bar with college chicks that surely have a few under aged girls woith wrist bands. Now Ben may have gone to this bar a bunch of times without incident but if I'm the Rooneys or his lawyer and I found out he was there I woud advise against it.

It may not seem fair but them be the breaks when you have a civil suit with your name in it next to rape. A fun night out can easily go wrong, drunk college chicks at an 18 and up bar certainly increases the risk

I understand they are looking at it from a corporate angle. I just looked at it from a legal standpoint to see if they had a leg to stand on. They don't. So let me ask you this question.

Who is the one standing on the moral high ground? The person who has done NOTHING wrong aside from being stupid or the people who are capitulating to special interests and media sensationalism by punishing a guy just to make their lives easier.

Kinda funny but the more I think of it Ben is on the moral high ground with this issue and I didn't think that way when this first broke.

Excellent point. He knows he was railroaded and he's taking it without making a stink about it.

steelz09
08-02-2010, 11:42 PM
Railroaded or not... high standards or not...

If this happens again (falsely accused or not), I guarantee Big Ben won't be playing on the Steelers any longer.

So the argument of "doing nothing wrong" which results in another accusation (false or not) isn't a valid excuse for the Rooney's from a business perspective.

I'd hate for that to happen because then we'll probably have to wait for another 20 years to get another SB. But I don't think the Rooney's will put up with it again regardless if he's guilty or not. This is his last chance.

What I really don't understand is why isn't he hooking up with some model, celebrity or whatever instead of some college student that could get him into trouble (and did). A college student(s) that can see $$ signs when they see Big Ben in a bar, knowing his current status, possibly his previous Nevada incident, etc. It's a bad thing waiting to happen. Go get a girl that doesn't need your money or fame, Ben!

Ghost
08-03-2010, 09:37 AM
All you PlanetSteelers b!tches need to take some shots!!

Let's move on - you're not going to change any opinions on either side. Ben is in camp and in fantastic shape. The coaches are looking at which QB is going to lead them in the first 4 games. I'll be disappointed if they don't go AT LEAST 2-2 into the bye week. Pouncey looks strong! Sanders is running good routes.

There are so many other topics to discuss now that camp has opened:

A peanut is neither a pea nor a nut.....discuss!

feltdizz
08-03-2010, 09:56 AM
This is true.