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View Full Version : Lefty over Dixon is one of NFLís worst offseason moves



hawaiiansteel
07-22-2010, 02:56 AM
Plenty of fodder in NFLís worst offseason moves

Wed., July 21, 2010


Whether it's from the NFL draft or a free-agent signing, every team likes to spin their offseason moves as something that'll help the team. That's hardly the case. We've targeted the 10 worst moves of the offseason.

http://nbcsportsmedia1.msnbc.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/0715-lt-story.widec.jpg



1. Jets sign LaDainian Tomlinson
The Jets head-scratchingly cut ties with 1,400-yard rusher Thomas Jones in favor of the washed-up future Hall of Famer. While Tomlinson, 31, has name value, the same can't be said for his on-field worth.

His yards-per-carry average has tumbled by at least a half yard in each of the past four seasons and he is no longer a passing-game asset. Having lost several steps, L.T. was the subject of numerous negative minicamp reports, one of which was entitled "LaDainian is pretty much LaDone." At least the Jets drafted third-down back of the future Joe McKnight as insurance.

2. Browns sign Jake Delhomme
Delhomme has committed an otherworldly 27 turnovers in his last 12 games, and it shouldn't have taken a season-ending broken finger for the Panthers to shut him down last year. He was awful in 11 starts, going 4-7 with career worsts in completion rate (55.5), yards-per-attempt average (6.3), and touchdown-to-interception ratio (8:18).

New Browns president Mike Holmgren -- whose track record as a personnel evaluator was already unimpressive -- still gave Delhomme a $12.4 million contract. Don't be surprised if the 35-year-old gets outplayed by Seneca Wallace this preseason.

3. Bills pass on Jimmy Clausen, twice
Entering April's draft with the league's worst quarterback situation, the Bills had two chances to select pro-ready Jimmy Clausen. They passed both times, opting instead to bolster an already strong tailback corps with C.J. Spiller at No. 9, and taking raw nose tackle Torrell Troup 41st.

New coach Chan Gailey plans to hold a three-way QB competition in camp consisting of injury-prone Trent Edwards, draft bust Brian Brohm, and noodle-armed journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick.

4. Jaguars give Aaron Kampman $11 million guaranteed
Aaron Kampman has been a good player for a long time, but his signing by Jacksonville smacks of desperation. Though he was forced out of position at linebacker in Green Bay, Kampman is coming off a 3.5-sack season. He also missed time with a concussion before tearing his ACL in November.

Entering his age-31 campaign with a reconstructed knee, Kampman isn't a good bet to regain explosiveness until midseason. The Jaguars get burned in free agency every year.

5. Redskins switch to 3-4 defense
The 3-4 scheme is new coach Mike Shanahan's preference and has a successful track record, but the change in Washington was unnecessary. The íSkins already had a top-10 defense, and the switch alienated their best defender -- Albert Haynesworth. While outside linebacker Brian Orakpo is a good fit for the new system, bookend Andre Carter's effectiveness is now in doubt.

6. A.J. Smith plays hardball with stars
San Diego's A.J. Smith is one of the game's most stubborn general managers, so we can't say we were surprised when he didn't meet left tackle Marcus McNeill and Pro Bowl receiver Vincent Jackson's contract demands.

The risk Smith runs, however, is enormous. Already suspended for the first three games, Jackson's threat to hold out through Week 10 is real, and McNeill has made similar threats. The offense won't be the same without two of its top players.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/.a/6a00d83451b05569e201156f2fc6d2970c-300wihttp://www.steelersgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Dixon-300x226.jpg



7. Steelers give Leftwich the nod over Dixon
The most crippling fallout from Pittsburgh's tumultuous offseason was the four-game suspension of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. From all indications, coach Mike Tomlin has opted to use Byron Leftwich as his starter in the meantime.

The Steelers' protection problems on the offensive line -- worsened by stud right tackle Willie Colon's torn Achilles' tendon -- make the decision curious. Leftwich is a statue, while the promising Dixon is a scrambling threat with moxie.

8. Rest of league lets Dallas get Dez Bryant
Skipping college classes (didn't we all?) was essentially the extent of Bryant's transgressions at Oklahoma State, but reports of "consistent tardiness" and a so-so Pro Day were enough to ďRandy MossĒ Bryant all the way to pick No. 24.

The Cowboys smartly traded up for the Andre Johnson-like talent, and inserted Bryant with their first-team three-receiver set in OTAs. Bryant, Jason Witten, and Miles Austin are going to form a wildly productive pass-catching corps for a long time.

9. Seahawks trade for LenDale White
Seattle executed a draft-day trade for White with Tennessee, and it took just one month for a winner of the trade to emerge. The Seahawks cut White 34 days later, after he exhibited poor work ethic on the practice field. It was also revealed that White is suspended through Week 4 for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy. Unsurprisingly, he's generated no free agent interest.

10. Texans re-sign Kevin Walter
The Texans will field a great offense again, but not because they re-signed Kevin Walter. Houston handed its 29-year-old possession receiver a $21.5 million contract after a 611-yard, two-touchdown season. While the Texans value Walter's blocking and professionalism, they have a better starting receiver option on the roster already in Jacoby Jones. And he only costs $550,000.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38349607/ns/sports-nfl/

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 05:47 AM
Nothing is set in stone. While I like Lefty as a backup, I love the potential Dixon brings to the table.

I like the idea of Dixon running a more run oriented offense early in the season. I think he could thrive off of playaction. I also believe that Dixons skill set is much closer to Bens than Lefty.

I also think that the offense doesn't utilize rolling out the QB enough, something Ben does well and Dixon would be a weapon with his threat to run.

The only real positives Lefty brings is veteran leadership and a much better grasp of the offense (but he's a statue and the O-line is questionable). That's definetly valuable, but there's a ton of untapped potential in Dixon IMO.

Shawn
07-22-2010, 06:50 AM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

DukieBoy
07-22-2010, 08:10 AM
Perhaps the Arians finds Lefty to be a closer fit for his style of offense compared to Dixon.

frankthetank1
07-22-2010, 08:14 AM
i didnt think he definetly was going to start the first four games. it seems like lefty has the advantage but i am sure a lot can change before the start of the season. its not like dixon is a proven qb in the nfl so im not sure how it can be one of the worst offseason moves. i hope dixon wins the job because he is really exciting to watch and i really want to know what we have for the future.

its funny when dixon was drafted i thought it was a stupid pick. this is one of the many many reasons why kevin colbert is the man. no one wanted dixon and he was a low pick. even if dixon is a good back up for years to come it was an excellent pick.

Oviedo
07-22-2010, 08:17 AM
What si ignored is that Lefty knows what his limitations are and he adjusts his game accordingly. He knows he isn't mobile so he makes quick decisions and gets rid of the ball quickly. IMO he will also help the OL because he does not move around. This allows the OL to know the attack angles the rushers have to take and they are not constantly changing like when Ben is in. This would I think allow them to position themselves better and hold their blocks longer.

Also not ever mentioned is that Dixon has a very slight build and looks more like a WR than a big QB. I am not convinced he can handle the pounding he will get like Ben does.

If up to me I go with the experience that Lefty brings to the team for those critical first four games.

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 08:44 AM
Perhaps the Arians finds Lefty to be a closer fit for his style of offense compared to Dixon.
It'd be nice to see Arians design an offense around his players strengths, and not just plug players into his offense.

It would also be nice to see him design a gameplan that attacks opponents weaknesses. While we're at it, I'd love to see some better playcalling and in-game adjustments.

Hell we're talking about B.A., he had Dixon roll out all of what...two times in the Balt. game. And even though those plays were highly successful, he chose not to run them again.

I give BA credit for bringing the offense out of the dark ages. On the other end of the spectrum though, his running offense has been pathetic at every level where he has been running his offense. He has no imagination in the run game, or he chooses to ignore it. He fails to recognize the effectiveness of playaction, proven by the fact that he diminishes the running game leaving playaction ineffective.

:wft what were we talking about? Oh yea, Lefty vs Dixon

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 08:57 AM
IMO Lefty will also help the OL because he does not move around. This allows the OL to know the attack angles the rushers have to take and they are not constantly changing like when Ben is in. This would I think allow them to position themselves better and hold their blocks longer.
And here it was I thought alot of the O-line problems (sacks) were due to letting guys loose straight up the middle with a clear path to the QB. Last thing we need is for the D to know exactly where he'll be, that's why I like rollouts and a moving pocket. Between Kemos brain farts and Hartwig & Essex sucking balls, a repeat of last year would lead to a return of Butterfingers Lefty. Yea, look up how many turnovers Lefty has in the starts he's had since leaving Jax.

I like Lefty, but some folks can ONLY remember the Wash. game when he came in for an injured Ben and forget why he isn't a starter anymore.

aggiebones
07-22-2010, 09:07 AM
Dixon was clearly not ready in his command of the offense against the Ravens. They 'hid' him through 3 quarters.
They cannot hide him through 4 games.
I like him, but these 4 games are important and Lefty gives us a better chance to win.
We'll see if Dixon can show something to the staff to allow him to pass Lefty. If not, go with the veteran. If Ben was sitting out 1 game, then I'd go with Dixon. But 4 games is a solid chunk.

frankthetank1
07-22-2010, 09:18 AM
Dixon was clearly not ready in his command of the offense against the Ravens. They 'hid' him through 3 quarters.
They cannot hide him through 4 games.
I like him, but these 4 games are important and Lefty gives us a better chance to win.
We'll see if Dixon can show something to the staff to allow him to pass Lefty. If not, go with the veteran. If Ben was sitting out 1 game, then I'd go with Dixon. But 4 games is a solid chunk.

if i remember correctly ben was ruled out of that game the night before. dixon may have been prepared to play against the ravens but i dont know that for sure. my point is with not much preperation i thought the game plan was similar to ben's rookie season. ben didnt have many games with 20+ passes in his first season. if lefty does give the team the better shot to win then you have to start him. i dont know who gives us the best shot to win though. if lefty plays like he did a couple of seasons ago then we all know the answer. if he plays like he did last season then dixon will be starting.

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 09:19 AM
Dixon was clearly not ready in his command of the offense against the Ravens. They 'hid' him through 3 quarters.That happens when you have less than a week to prepare.


They cannot hide him through 4 games.
I like him, but these 4 games are important and Lefty gives us a better chance to win.
We'll see if Dixon can show something to the staff to allow him to pass Lefty. If not, go with the veteran. If Ben was sitting out 1 game, then I'd go with Dixon. But 4 games is a solid chunk.I hear what your saying and agree to a point, ...but. This is a known situation, meaning they have over a month to work with the guys.

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 09:53 AM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

SteelStallion
07-22-2010, 10:21 AM
Typical 'Steeler-Way,' the young player isn't allowed to play. My problem with this is Leftwich was anointed before training camp even started and Dixon wasn't even allowed to compete. Seems backwards to me. Hopefully it works out.

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 10:27 AM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

*sigh*

It was all a timing issue and the story at camp was they have worked out the timing issue and Ben was hitting Wallace deep and in stride. Ben's deep ball is as good as anyone's but when it's not thrown on time then there's a problem.

/is getting tired of repeating this so please: learn it, know it, live it.

BURGH86STEEL
07-22-2010, 11:04 AM
I don't believe they traded for Lefty as a long term solution. He's a guy that helped teams win games in the league. He was brought in to add quality depth and hold the fort down until Ben returns. I don't understand how it could be one of the worst off season moves.

BURGH86STEEL
07-22-2010, 11:10 AM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

*sigh*

It was all a timing issue and the story at camp was they have worked out the timing issue and Ben was hitting Wallace deep and in stride. Ben's deep ball is as good as anyone's but when it's not thrown on time then there's a problem.

/is getting tired of repeating this so please: learn it, know it, live it.

Whatever the issue, Ben can work on consistency with his deep passes. As of today, I don't believe his deep passes are among the best in the league. That's because the consistency is not where it needs to be.

Leftwich might do better with the deep passes to Wallace because I believe he has a stronger arm and appears to make quicker decisions then Ben.

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 11:39 AM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

*sigh*

It was all a timing issue and the story at camp was they have worked out the timing issue and Ben was hitting Wallace deep and in stride. Ben's deep ball is as good as anyone's but when it's not thrown on time then there's a problem.

/is getting tired of repeating this so please: learn it, know it, live it.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't get the memo that this was a touchy subject for you.

Here's an idea.... I'll let it be proven out on the field, consistently, instead of taking your word for it. You act as if OTAs are the same as live action.

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 12:02 PM
You don't have to take my word for it. Watch the games. If you recognize what you are seeing it's clear that Ben was throwing the ball late to Wallace last season. If he throws it a split second earlier he's hitting him in stride. That's a timing issue.

Btw, here's the scouting report on Ben:

Assets - Great arm. Can make all the throws. Throws an accurate deep ball. Can make things happen when the play breaks down. Runs well and is hard to bring down.

Flaws - Takes way too long in the pocket and gets sacked a lot. Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play. Still throws too many picks. Has had an increasing amount of worrisome off-field trouble.

There you have it from professional scouts. :)

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/p ... lisberger/ (http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/players/Ben_Roethlisberger/)

There are plenty more out there. Just do a google search and you'll see.

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 12:18 PM
Thank you sir, and I appreciate the optimism.

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 12:44 PM
Thank you sir, and I appreciate the optimism.

And I need to apologize. It's difficut to understand tone sometimes with just the printed word. My *sigh* post was more goofing around than anything, but it is true that the timing thing has always been a bit of an issue for Ben. Couple that with Wallace being faster than any WR he's ever had to throw to and that will magnify the issue. But reports from OTAs were that they worked on the timing and it seems to have been resolved.

feltdizz
07-22-2010, 12:47 PM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

*sigh*

It was all a timing issue and the story at camp was they have worked out the timing issue and Ben was hitting Wallace deep and in stride. Ben's deep ball is as good as anyone's but when it's not thrown on time then there's a problem.

/is getting tired of repeating this so please: learn it, know it, live it.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't get the memo that this was a touchy subject for you.

Here's an idea.... I'll let it be proven out on the field, consistently, instead of taking your word for it. You act as if OTAs are the same as live action.

:nono
They can't handle critiques of Ben... be very careful.

Game day is when we find out if it's fixed.

steelblitz
07-22-2010, 01:16 PM
It's all good cruzer8, we're Steelers fans we're tougher than that......

ouch I hurt my finger on the keyboard. :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
07-22-2010, 01:22 PM
It's all good cruzer8, we're Steelers fans we're tougher than that......

ouch I hurt my finger on the keyboard. :wink:

I sure hope it wasn't your Johnny Cash middle finger.

If it was, we'll have to place you on the PUP list, and you'll be ineligible for the first 6 games of the season. :wink:

Shoe
07-22-2010, 02:23 PM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 03:40 PM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

*sigh*

It was all a timing issue and the story at camp was they have worked out the timing issue and Ben was hitting Wallace deep and in stride. Ben's deep ball is as good as anyone's but when it's not thrown on time then there's a problem.

/is getting tired of repeating this so please: learn it, know it, live it.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't get the memo that this was a touchy subject for you.

Here's an idea.... I'll let it be proven out on the field, consistently, instead of taking your word for it. You act as if OTAs are the same as live action.

:nono
They can't handle critiques of Ben... be very careful.

Game day is when we find out if it's fixed.

It's not a critique if it's not true.

Dee Dub
07-22-2010, 05:18 PM
Why anyone would read anything more from this article that follows this>>>>>>>>>>> "worsened by stud right tackle Willie Colon's".....or why any knowledgeable Steeler fan would waste the time to comment on garbage like this is beyond me. :roll:

Willie Colon is a decent/adeqaute RT but in no way shape or form is he a "STUD". Nor ever will be.

If he is the definition of what a stud in football is.....then he is the type that needs to be taken out to pasture.

I cant believe people get paid to right stuff like this. :HeadBanger

Crash
07-22-2010, 05:52 PM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

Dammit that just isn't true. It's not. And it wasn't last season.

Why do you people insist that it is?

How in the hell can Wallace lead the league in YPC if Ben struggles to hit him?

And before you say it? Wallace averaged only 3.4 YAC yards on his receptions.

SteelAbility
07-22-2010, 06:58 PM
How could Lefty over Dixon be a bad move. Clearly, based on a small sample set of isolated plays, Lefty is better than Ben. :roll:

hawaiiansteel
07-22-2010, 07:04 PM
As much as I love Ben (and want to see Dixon play) I will say this, I can see Lefty hitting Wallace in stride on a long bomb for a TD. Something Ben struggles with big time.

Dammit that just isn't true. It's not. And it wasn't last season.

Why do you people insist that it is?

How in the hell can Wallace lead the league in YPC if Ben struggles to hit him?

And before you say it? Wallace averaged only 3.4 YAC yards on his receptions.


this comes directly from the Bleacher Report, so you know it must be true...:roll: :D



Mike Wallace Has a Better Year Than Santonio Holmes


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/309/054/90585718_display_image.jpg?1279747612


Santonio Holmes was a Super Bowl MVP and the Steelers' leading receiver in two of the last three seasons.

Mike Wallace was a third round pick out of Mississippi in 2009 and burst onto the scene with little fanfare to go with his 756 yards and six touchdowns as a rookie.

While many would argue that the attention Holmes and Ward drew away from the rookie allowed him to get open as often as he did, others would point out that Wallace is far superior than Holmes was at this point in his career.

In fact, during the 2009 season, Wallace was often so fast that he was under thrown on deep balls that cost him yards and touchdowns.

The Steelers obviously thought highly enough of Wallaceís abilities to rid themselves of Holmesí off the field headaches by trading him to the Jets in 2009 for as little as a fifth round pick.

Holmes will no longer have the high-powered passing attack of the Pittsburgh Steelers and the arm of Ben Roethlisberger to depend on with the Jets. His addition to the Jets offense will help them, but Mark Sanchez is certainly not going to throw the ball 40 times a game in New York.

The increase in chances for Wallace with Holmes gone should not only allow him to break the 1,000 yard mark in his sophomore season, but also increase on his touchdown totals as well.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4232 ... afc#page/4 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/423251-2010-nfl-predictions-top-15-surprises-that-may-occur-in-the-afc#page/4)

Crash
07-22-2010, 10:35 PM
Wallace stepped out of bounds in Cincy when he should have scored. Sweed dropped a deep ball TD the same game. Wallace dropped a deep pass for a TD in Detroit.

Ben really struggled one game with the deep ball for Wallace: Bengals II. But thats it.

Ben was also hit when he threw deep to Wallace in Chicago, and at KC when Wallace fumbled.

That crap all evens out. But Ben's deep ball isn't the problem people think it is.

NKySteeler
07-22-2010, 11:21 PM
Wallace will be a major factor this season without a doubt.... But if Ward goes down, he's gonna be double-teamed....

We know that Ward will possibly go down at some point, so if that is the case....

Who steps up? Who will cover the rock?....

Battle?... Miller?... ARE?.... Who?...

Captain Lemming
07-23-2010, 12:50 AM
Throws an accurate deep ball.


Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play.

The second statement cannot be talking about deep passes or else the statements are in direct contradiction.

You by definition cannot be an accurate deep passer without timing.

A QB might be such an accurate deep passer that he can hit a stationary "fly" on a goalpost from the 50 yard line, but without "timing" you cannot be accurate at hitting a receiver on a "fly" pattern.

Last year you kept calling it "timing" not accuracy. When the target is moving at high speed, you cannot have one without the other.

stlrz d
07-23-2010, 08:04 AM
[quote]Throws an accurate deep ball.


Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play.

The second statement cannot be talking about deep passes or else the statements are in direct contradiction.

You by definition cannot be an accurate deep passer without timing.

A QB might be such an accurate deep passer that he can hit a stationary "fly" on a goalpost from the 50 yard line, but without "timing" you cannot be accurate at hitting a receiver on a "fly" pattern.

Last year you kept calling it "timing" not accuracy. When the target is moving at high speed, you cannot have one without the other.[/quote:20ex060c]

Sure you can. It's simple physics. Ben has to throw the ball at point X in time in order to hit a WR at point Y in stride. If he throws the ball a split second after point X in time then he is still throwing the ball the same distance he would have been throwing it before but the timing is off.

Most people seem to think that QBs throwing deep passes means they are throwing them 60, 70 or more yards through the air. The reality is most deep passes are really 30 to 50 yards through the air. It's incredibly difficult to hit a moving target beyond that range for any QB. If a QB can throw a ball to a deep stationary spot and hit it every time then he's accurate. If he has the timing of a WR down then he can still throw to that same spot and hit the WR in stride. If the ball is thrown a bit late then forget about it.

So if the timing is correct (meaning Ben is throwing it at point X in time) then he is hitting the WR in stride.

Last year when people saw Wallace coming back for passes their thought was that Ben had a lack of arm strength to get it to Wallace in stride. Ben has plenty of arm strength and plenty of zip on the ball (see that laser pass to Wallace against the Packers as just one example) to be able to get it to his WRs in stride. What he sometimes lacks is the timing to do that. He needs to trust that his WRs will get open and let the ball go at point X in time because even a split second after that and it's too late.

Ever see QBs throw out routes before the WR makes their break? That's trust. You don't see Ben throw out routes before the WR makes the break. One reason is because he doesn't appear to trust that they'll get open. The other reason is that he has a strong enough arm that he can see the WR make the break and still get the ball there. But deep passes are a different matter. Every NFL QB can throw the ball far enough to hit the deep ball...but if the timing isn't there it doesn't matter.

frankthetank1
07-23-2010, 08:12 AM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

steelblitz
07-23-2010, 08:17 AM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.
I was thinking the same thing, then I just figured he was being facetious.

Oviedo
07-23-2010, 08:44 AM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

Since when hasn't it become customary for Steelers fans to sing the virtues of "one game wonders" or pre-season heroes (see Isac Redman). It is almost a holy obligation every summer to find the next underdog who gives a glimmer of overachievement and make him the next savior of the franchise.


Call it the Rocky Blier-effect. Many fans go into the season hoping to see the next Rudy.

steelblitz
07-23-2010, 09:27 AM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 91596.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_691596.html)

Seems like Dixon and his agent feel the same way.

Sorry, didn't notice the other thread.

steelblitz
07-23-2010, 09:31 AM
Since when hasn't it become customary for Steelers fans to sing the virtues of "one game wonders" or pre-season heroes (see Isac Redman). It is almost a holy obligation every summer to find the next underdog who gives a glimmer of overachievement and make him the next savior of the franchise.


Call it the Rocky Blier-effect. Many fans go into the season hoping to see the next Rudy.Your absolutely right, and there's a reason for that. Part of that has to do with the FACT that the team has always done a great job in finding that diamond in the slew of UDFAs. So the fans expect it, just not on the O-line recently. :? And even then there's Legs.

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 10:15 AM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

I haven't seen enough evidence of that yet. Too small of a samle size.

RuthlessBurgher
07-23-2010, 10:19 AM
Since when hasn't it become customary for Steelers fans to sing the virtues of "one game wonders" or pre-season heroes (see Isac Redman). It is almost a holy obligation every summer to find the next underdog who gives a glimmer of overachievement and make him the next savior of the franchise.


Call it the Rocky Blier-effect. Many fans go into the season hoping to see the next Rudy.Your absolutely right, and there's a reason for that. Part of that has to do with the FACT that the team has always done a great job in finding that diamond in the slew of UDFAs. So the fans expect it, just not on the O-line recently. :? And even then there's Legs.

We've had a decent amount of UDFA's on the o-line. In addition to Legursky now, Darnell Stapleton was a UDFA who became a starter. Keydrick Vincent carved out a decent NFL career for himself...he started as a UDFA for us. We've had a few other guys that provided depth for a while, like Jason Capizzi.

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 10:23 AM
[quote="Captain Lemming":2c2isxjp][quote]Throws an accurate deep ball.


Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play.

The second statement cannot be talking about deep passes or else the statements are in direct contradiction.

You by definition cannot be an accurate deep passer without timing.

A QB might be such an accurate deep passer that he can hit a stationary "fly" on a goalpost from the 50 yard line, but without "timing" you cannot be accurate at hitting a receiver on a "fly" pattern.

Last year you kept calling it "timing" not accuracy. When the target is moving at high speed, you cannot have one without the other.[/quote:2c2isxjp]

Sure you can. It's simple physics. Ben has to throw the ball at point X in time in order to hit a WR at point Y in stride. If he throws the ball a split second after point X in time then he is still throwing the ball the same distance he would have been throwing it before but the timing is off.

Most people seem to think that QBs throwing deep passes means they are throwing them 60, 70 or more yards through the air. The reality is most deep passes are really 30 to 50 yards through the air. It's incredibly difficult to hit a moving target beyond that range for any QB. If a QB can throw a ball to a deep stationary spot and hit it every time then he's accurate. If he has the timing of a WR down then he can still throw to that same spot and hit the WR in stride. If the ball is thrown a bit late then forget about it.

So if the timing is correct (meaning Ben is throwing it at point X in time) then he is hitting the WR in stride.

Last year when people saw Wallace coming back for passes their thought was that Ben had a lack of arm strength to get it to Wallace in stride. Ben has plenty of arm strength and plenty of zip on the ball (see that laser pass to Wallace against the Packers as just one example) to be able to get it to his WRs in stride. What he sometimes lacks is the timing to do that. He needs to trust that his WRs will get open and let the ball go at point X in time because even a split second after that and it's too late.

Ever see QBs throw out routes before the WR makes their break? That's trust. You don't see Ben throw out routes before the WR makes the break. One reason is because he doesn't appear to trust that they'll get open. The other reason is that he has a strong enough arm that he can see the WR make the break and still get the ball there. But deep passes are a different matter. Every NFL QB can throw the ball far enough to hit the deep ball...but if the timing isn't there it doesn't matter.[/quote:2c2isxjp]

True that. Many of Ben's picks come on out routes because he waits to see the receiver make the break before throwing the ball. Good corners get a jump on those.

feltdizz
07-23-2010, 10:47 AM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 11:55 AM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

Who says it's not a problem? What we are discussing is the nature of the problem. There is a difference between a QB having a week arm and not being able to throw it far enough and a QB with a timing issue. A timing issue can be fixed. A weak arm not so much. Ben doesn't have a weak arm.

RuthlessBurgher
07-23-2010, 12:00 PM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

Who says it's not a problem? What we are discussing is the nature of the problem. There is a difference between a QB having a week arm and not being able to throw it far enough and a QB with a timing issue. A timing issue can be fixed. A weak arm not so much. Ben doesn't have a weak arm.

Who says a weak arm can't be fixed?

http://tonysports.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mcgwire.jpg

http://justgrits.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/congrats_barry_bonds.jpg

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/the-clubhouse/156883d1257666214-this-is-what-happens-when-you-take-steroids-carrottop-aftersteroids.jpg

ANPSTEEL
07-23-2010, 01:05 PM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.


I probably missed a better quote to make this point on-

but

IMO, Ben's issue is not arm strength, or timing.

His issue is with his mechanics / throwing motion.

We all know Ben runs around like a nut, trying to create plays- but what really causes his "too late" deep ball- is his constant double clutch/pump fake- on deep throws.

He seemingly began to develop this habit as a way to freeze/move the safety - and subsequently appears to not trust his judgment (I'm sure every safety in the league has been told "don't commit on his first motion")-

anyway- we can only hope he has been working to stop this habit. But that would also require him learning to actually trust in the play as called.

ANPSTEEL
07-23-2010, 01:22 PM
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/the-clubhouse/156883d1257666214-this-is-what-happens-when-you-take-steroids-carrottop-aftersteroids.jpg

on a side note:

that guy is a freakshow.

:wft

Dee Dub
07-23-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

Yeah Shawn is talking out of the side of his neck. Dixon was one of best pure passers in the country his senior year. 67.7 % completion percentage and 20-4 TD's to INT's before he got hurt.

The myth on Dixon is his strength is his legs/speed/ability to run but that is not the case. He is, or at least was, best known for his arm.

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 01:35 PM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.


I probably missed a better quote to make this point on-

but

IMO, Ben's issue is not arm strength, or timing.

His issue is with his mechanics / throwing motion.

We all know Ben runs around like a nut, trying to create plays- but what really causes his "too late" deep ball- is his constant double clutch/pump fake- on deep throws.

He seemingly began to develop this habit as a way to freeze/move the safety - and subsequently appears to not trust his judgment (I'm sure every safety in the league has been told "don't commit on his first motion")-

anyway- we can only hope he has been working to stop this habit. But that would also require him learning to actually trust in the play as called.

That's funny because I hear coaches and former coaches turned analysts rave about how effectively he uses the pump fake when he is trying to freeze the D so a receiver can get open.

I don't see him using it on every pass. Just when he sees something that we can't see because the camera angle doesn't show us what he's looking at downfield.

ANPSTEEL
07-23-2010, 02:36 PM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.


I probably missed a better quote to make this point on-

but

IMO, Ben's issue is not arm strength, or timing.

His issue is with his mechanics / throwing motion.

We all know Ben runs around like a nut, trying to create plays- but what really causes his "too late" deep ball- is his constant double clutch/pump fake- on deep throws.

He seemingly began to develop this habit as a way to freeze/move the safety - and subsequently appears to not trust his judgment (I'm sure every safety in the league has been told "don't commit on his first motion")-

anyway- we can only hope he has been working to stop this habit. But that would also require him learning to actually trust in the play as called.

That's funny because I hear coaches and former coaches turned analysts rave about how effectively he uses the pump fake when he is trying to freeze the D so a receiver can get open.

I don't see him using it on every pass. Just when he sees something that we can't see because the camera angle doesn't show us what he's looking at downfield.

don't listen to the goofy announcers... I'm sure you watch the games and can come to an intelligent conclusion on your own...

when you do, you'll see Ben start to pat the ball and double hitch on deep patterns.

He was successful with this in the beginning of the season- but as it went on- this "release" certainly appeared to become more of a habit than intentional.

Either way- him doing the double pat/hitch/pump- certainly takes time- whereby Wallace is now another 5-10yards deeper, and waiting for the ball to arrive.

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 04:41 PM
If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.


I probably missed a better quote to make this point on-

but

IMO, Ben's issue is not arm strength, or timing.

His issue is with his mechanics / throwing motion.

We all know Ben runs around like a nut, trying to create plays- but what really causes his "too late" deep ball- is his constant double clutch/pump fake- on deep throws.

He seemingly began to develop this habit as a way to freeze/move the safety - and subsequently appears to not trust his judgment (I'm sure every safety in the league has been told "don't commit on his first motion")-

anyway- we can only hope he has been working to stop this habit. But that would also require him learning to actually trust in the play as called.

That's funny because I hear coaches and former coaches turned analysts rave about how effectively he uses the pump fake when he is trying to freeze the D so a receiver can get open.

I don't see him using it on every pass. Just when he sees something that we can't see because the camera angle doesn't show us what he's looking at downfield.

don't listen to the goofy announcers... I'm sure you watch the games and can come to an intelligent conclusion on your own...

when you do, you'll see Ben start to pat the ball and double hitch on deep patterns.

He was successful with this in the beginning of the season- but as it went on- this "release" certainly appeared to become more of a habit than intentional.

Either way- him doing the double pat/hitch/pump- certainly takes time- whereby Wallace is now another 5-10yards deeper, and waiting for the ball to arrive.

You must have missed that.