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Oviedo
07-20-2010, 11:30 AM
Camp is about 10 days away and the the 2010 season will proceed as normal. However there is great uncertainty after this season and the 2011 season could be lost or at least very abbreviated meaning the next full season won't be until 2012. That caused me to think about who we may be seeing for the last time at St Vincent's.

It's not just the potential for a lockout in 2011 but keep in mind that the owners are trying to get a 5-10% giveback on the percent of revenues that the players get. That will mean a lower cap than there was last year which means a number of players could be 2012 cap casualties. Here are the names I thought of:

Aaron Smith--great Steeler but age and injuries plus a $4+M salary will combine to reduce the possibility he is on the roster in 2012. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <20%

James Farrior: Already slowing down. Greatest Stelers free agent pick up ever. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <10%

Hines Ward: Heart and soul of the team but nagging injuries are starting to get to him. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <25%

Willie Colon: Can anyone have worse luck? Injury at the worst time in a contract year and facing a lockout plus the type on injury is tough to come back from. Could allow the Steelers to sign him at a discount. Chances of being on roster in 2012: 50/50

Now the hard ones:

Ike Taylor: Had a bad season last year and is the final year of a contract. If he plays well this season he will be looking for a big contract. Not sure that at his age of over 30 and the possibility of a reduced cap works in his favor. Add in that 3 CBs have been drafted in the past two years. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <50%

Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

James Harrison: A stat to worry about: only 2 sacks in the final 8 games last year. Is he going Jason Gildon on us or was that a fluke? Do we risk not having cap space for Woodely to keep Harrison? Tough decision if he doesn't have a great season. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

Just something to think about. Your thoughts? Anyone else?

cruzer8
07-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Camp is about 10 days away and the the 2010 season will proceed as normal. However there is great uncertainty after this season and the 2011 season could be lost or at least very abbreviated meaning the next full season won't be until 2012. That caused me to think about who we may be seeing for the last time at St Vincent's.

It's not just the potential for a lockout in 2011 but keep in mind that the owners are trying to get a 5-10% giveback on the percent of revenues that the players get. That will mean a lower cap than there was last year which means a number of players could be 2012 cap casualties. Here are the names I thought of:

Aaron Smith--great Steeler but age and injuries plus a $4+M salary will combine to reduce the possibility he is on the roster in 2012. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <20% Unless he decides to retire he will be back.

James Farrior: Already slowing down. Greatest Stelers free agent pick up ever. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <10% See Aaron Smith.

Hines Ward: Heart and soul of the team but nagging injuries are starting to get to him. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <25% See James Farrior and Aaron Smith.

Willie Colon: Can anyone have worse luck? Injury at the worst time in a contract year and facing a lockout plus the type on injury is tough to come back from. Could allow the Steelers to sign him at a discount. Chances of being on roster in 2012: 50/50 If he's able to recover he'll be back.

Now the hard ones:

Ike Taylor: Had a bad season last year and is the final year of a contract. If he plays well this season he will be looking for a big contract. Not sure that at his age of over 30 and the possibility of a reduced cap works in his favor. Add in that 3 CBs have been drafted in the past two years. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <50% Will only be gone if his contract demands are ridiculous.

Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50% Only way he isn't back is if he suffers a career ending injury.

James Harrison: A stat to worry about: only 2 sacks in the final 8 games last year. Is he going Jason Gildon on us or was that a fluke? Do we risk not having cap space for Woodely to keep Harrison? Tough decision if he doesn't have a great season. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50% It's no coincidence that Harrison's sacks went down while Woodley's went up. Teams focused on Harrison and Woodley went off. 100% chance he is back.

Just something to think about. Your thoughts? Anyone else?

Those are my thoughts.

Edit: I don't know his contract status, but I think Hartwig will be gone after this season.

Oviedo
07-20-2010, 03:08 PM
Camp is about 10 days away and the the 2010 season will proceed as normal. However there is great uncertainty after this season and the 2011 season could be lost or at least very abbreviated meaning the next full season won't be until 2012. That caused me to think about who we may be seeing for the last time at St Vincent's.

It's not just the potential for a lockout in 2011 but keep in mind that the owners are trying to get a 5-10% giveback on the percent of revenues that the players get. That will mean a lower cap than there was last year which means a number of players could be 2012 cap casualties. Here are the names I thought of:

Aaron Smith--great Steeler but age and injuries plus a $4+M salary will combine to reduce the possibility he is on the roster in 2012. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <20% Unless he decides to retire he will be back.

James Farrior: Already slowing down. Greatest Stelers free agent pick up ever. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <10% See Aaron Smith.

Hines Ward: Heart and soul of the team but nagging injuries are starting to get to him. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <25% See James Farrior and Aaron Smith.

Willie Colon: Can anyone have worse luck? Injury at the worst time in a contract year and facing a lockout plus the type on injury is tough to come back from. Could allow the Steelers to sign him at a discount. Chances of being on roster in 2012: 50/50 If he's able to recover he'll be back.

Now the hard ones:

Ike Taylor: Had a bad season last year and is the final year of a contract. If he plays well this season he will be looking for a big contract. Not sure that at his age of over 30 and the possibility of a reduced cap works in his favor. Add in that 3 CBs have been drafted in the past two years. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <50% Will only be gone if his contract demands are ridiculous.

Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50% Only way he isn't back is if he suffers a career ending injury.

James Harrison: A stat to worry about: only 2 sacks in the final 8 games last year. Is he going Jason Gildon on us or was that a fluke? Do we risk not having cap space for Woodely to keep Harrison? Tough decision if he doesn't have a great season. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50% It's no coincidence that Harrison's sacks went down while Woodley's went up. Teams focused on Harrison and Woodley went off. 100% chance he is back.

Just something to think about. Your thoughts? Anyone else?

Those are my thoughts.

Edit: I don't know his contract status, but I think Hartwig will be gone after this season.


I considered Hartwig as gone for sure.

hawaiiansteel
07-20-2010, 03:10 PM
if there is a lockout in 2011 there may be plenty of guys we'll be watching for the last time this season.

Oviedo
07-20-2010, 03:19 PM
if there is a lockout in 2011 there may be plenty of guys we'll be watching for the last time this season.

Most interesting will be if the owners get the 5-10% give back from the players what that does to the cap. If you take $15-20M off the cap then teams like the Steelers who have a big contract player like Ben have issues. Same for Indy with Manning and Pats with Brady.

You would also have to reconsider the impact on signing a player ike Woodley. Personally, I think that was the main reason they really got rid of Stupidio Holmes. No way they can give him and Woodley a big contract in the same year. uless they dump alot of players like Hines, Aaron, Ike, Farrior, etc. Timmons is also just one year behind Woodley.

Steelers&gt;NFL
07-20-2010, 03:33 PM
if there is a lockout in 2011 there may be plenty of guys we'll be watching for the last time this season.

Most interesting will be if the owners get the 5-10% give back from the players what that does to the cap. If you take $15-20M off the cap then teams like the Steelers who have a big contract player like Ben have issues. Same for Indy with Manning and Pats with Brady.

You would also have to reconsider the impact on signing a player ike Woodley. Personally, I think that was the main reason they really got rid of Stupidio Holmes. No way they can give him and Woodley a big contract in the same year. uless they dump alot of players like Hines, Aaron, Ike, Farrior, etc. Timmons is also just one year behind Woodley.

Agree 100%. Holmes was a goner after the season. He was going to the highest bidder. And it was not going to to be the Steelers.
Woodley is the man they need to sign.

Oviedo
07-21-2010, 10:12 AM
if there is a lockout in 2011 there may be plenty of guys we'll be watching for the last time this season.

Most interesting will be if the owners get the 5-10% give back from the players what that does to the cap. If you take $15-20M off the cap then teams like the Steelers who have a big contract player like Ben have issues. Same for Indy with Manning and Pats with Brady.

You would also have to reconsider the impact on signing a player ike Woodley. Personally, I think that was the main reason they really got rid of Stupidio Holmes. No way they can give him and Woodley a big contract in the same year. uless they dump alot of players like Hines, Aaron, Ike, Farrior, etc. Timmons is also just one year behind Woodley.

Agree 100%. Holmes was a goner after the season. He was going to the highest bidder. And it was not going to to be the Steelers.
Woodley is the man they need to sign.

:Agree Woodley is priority #1 but the CBA issues are making a deal impossible at this point.

Iron Shiek
07-21-2010, 12:27 PM
Troy P can't leave. I just got his jersey last year...he's not allowed.

I'll tell him that and he'll stay.

As for some of the others on your list, you made some interesting cases. Always hard to think of the day that Aaron Smith or Hines Ward aren't lining up for the Black and Gold. :x

Jigawatts
07-21-2010, 01:19 PM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

Oviedo
07-21-2010, 01:42 PM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

How he got hurt is absolutely meaningless because it does not lessen the cumulative effects of repeated injuries.

I don't think he leaves after 2011 but he won't be playing into his mid-30s.

grotonsteel
07-21-2010, 01:57 PM
Aaron Smith--great Steeler but age and injuries plus a $4+M salary will combine to reduce the possibility he is on the roster in 2012. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <20%

I don't think Steelers keep him 2012. Ziggy was drafted to replace Smith. It will be a sad day for Steelers when he retires.

James Farrior: Already slowing down. Greatest Stelers free agent pick up ever. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <10%

If young guns show promise he might be a surprise cut in the 2010 camp.

Hines Ward: Heart and soul of the team but nagging injuries are starting to get to him. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <25%

If Sanders and Brown pan out then i think Hines ward won't make the 2012 roster.

Willie Colon: Can anyone have worse luck? Injury at the worst time in a contract year and facing a lockout plus the type on injury is tough to come back from. Could allow the Steelers to sign him at a discount. Chances of being on roster in 2012: 50/50

Willie Colon was Steelers best O-lineman last season. If Willie Colon recovers from that injury i think they will sign him.

Now the hard ones:

Ike Taylor: Had a bad season last year and is the final year of a contract. If he plays well this season he will be looking for a big contract. Not sure that at his age of over 30 and the possibility of a reduced cap works in his favor. Add in that 3 CBs have been drafted in the past two years. Chances of being on roster in 2012: <50%

No way i give Ike taylor a big contract. Taylor at best is a No. 2 CB. He can't catch and he can't defend fade away passes in the end zone. If Steelers want to spend money on a CB they better spend it on someone like Asomugha.


Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

No way i let him go. Troy is too valuable for Steelers. Question though is do Steelers sign him for a third contract?Normally Steelers stay away from 3rd contract.


James Harrison: A stat to worry about: only 2 sacks in the final 8 games last year. Is he going Jason Gildon on us or was that a fluke? Do we risk not having cap space for Woodely to keep Harrison? Tough decision if he doesn't have a great season. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%
I think James Harrison stays.

grotonsteel
07-21-2010, 02:39 PM
If anything, I think personal matters could serve as a larger distraction his youngest son appears to have fallen ill in the past few years. Not sure what the status of his health is.

Aaron Smith's son Elijah is winning the battle which is a great news.

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/ ... 60355DCA5C (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Smith-has-something-to-celebrate/246305A0-B846-481E-80EE-2760355DCA5C)

skyhawk
07-22-2010, 02:38 AM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

A fat guy did land on his knee. But he DID have THREE separate injuries to the same knee in one season. The way he plays puts him at risk, and his body is failing him lately. I doubt he plays another complete season.

Shawn
07-22-2010, 07:01 AM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

$$$

There is something very Barry Sanders-esque about Troy. I believe he will leave closer to his prime rather than later. I don't believe he is a guy defined by football and will have an easier time making a decision that is good for him and his family.

stlrz d
07-22-2010, 07:58 AM
But he DID have THREE separate injuries to the same knee in one season.

That's not true. He had ONE knee injury and tweaked the SAME injury trying to come back sooner than he should have.


and his body is failing him lately.

2008 (the season before the freak knee injury) disagrees with you.


I doubt he plays another complete season.

I doubt you will be correct.

Oviedo
07-22-2010, 08:12 AM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

$$$

There is something very Barry Sanders-esque about Troy. I believe he will leave closer to his prime rather than later. I don't believe he is a guy defined by football and will have an easier time making a decision that is good for him and his family.

Which causes me to worry greatly because we have no one on the team that can do what he does and our defense seems to be designed around the abilities of this one player.

I'd feel much better if I had any confidence that LeBeau had a Plan B for either when Troy is hurt or he retires but we just seem to hope he stays healthy. Hope is not a method that typically leads to success. Based upon last year's defensive performance we do not seem to have a clue what do to when Troy is out.

What is even more disconcerting is that it seems that anyone you would bring in would have to "redshirt" for a least a year before they saw the field in our defensive scheme. IMO that means we could have a gap of one to two years when Troy is out for good.

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 10:14 AM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

$$$

There is something very Barry Sanders-esque about Troy. I believe he will leave closer to his prime rather than later. I don't believe he is a guy defined by football and will have an easier time making a decision that is good for him and his family.

Which causes me to worry greatly because we have no one on the team that can do what he does and our defense seems to be designed around the abilities of this one player.

I'd feel much better if I had any confidence that LeBeau had a Plan B for either when Troy is hurt or he retires but we just seem to hope he stays healthy. Hope is not a method that typically leads to success. Based upon last year's defensive performance we do not seem to have a clue what do to when Troy is out.

What is even more disconcerting is that it seems that anyone you would bring in would have to "redshirt" for a least a year before they saw the field in our defensive scheme. IMO that means we could have a gap of one to two years when Troy is out for good.

Bah. Defense has traditionally been the hallmark of the Steelers. But losing two key players will do that to a defense. Aaron Smith's departure affected the defense every bit as much as Troy's departure. Any defense that loses two players of that caliber will suffer.

Also that "redshirt" stuff is hogwash. The Steelers consistently draft in the lower part of rounds and because they have the luxury of having quality teams on a consistent basis they don't ever have to draft for need. They draft players they feel will fit their scheme and then allow them to develop. If they can contribute right away then they see the field. If not they play special teams and learn. I'm damn glad we aren't one of those teams drafting for a need and hoping that a rookie can contribute immediately!

feltdizz
07-22-2010, 12:59 PM
I don't care how late we draft or how great our D is.... when we lose 2 guys our D cannot look like it did last year.

They looked lost out there at times.

grotonsteel
07-22-2010, 02:24 PM
Troy Poalamalu: Are the injuries a "fluke" or the start of a general decline? This season will be vritical. If he can't stay healthy do you keep him and his cap number? Remember they let Ron Woodson walk at abouth the same point in his career. Chances of being on roster in 2012: >50%

A fat guy fell on his leg and bent it the wrong way. That kind of stuff happens.

But given his outlook on life, I wouldn't be surprised if Troy walked away from the game
after the 2011 season when his contract expires. With two Super Bowl rings, plenty of money,
and a brain that's a few more concussions away from turning to mush, I'd do the same.

$$$

There is something very Barry Sanders-esque about Troy. I believe he will leave closer to his prime rather than later. I don't believe he is a guy defined by football and will have an easier time making a decision that is good for him and his family.

Which causes me to worry greatly because we have no one on the team that can do what he does and our defense seems to be designed around the abilities of this one player.

I'd feel much better if I had any confidence that LeBeau had a Plan B for either when Troy is hurt or he retires but we just seem to hope he stays healthy. Hope is not a method that typically leads to success. Based upon last year's defensive performance we do not seem to have a clue what do to when Troy is out.

What is even more disconcerting is that it seems that anyone you would bring in would have to "redshirt" for a least a year before they saw the field in our defensive scheme. IMO that means we could have a gap of one to two years when Troy is out for good.

Bah. Defense has traditionally been the hallmark of the Steelers. But losing two key players will do that to a defense. Aaron Smith's departure affected the defense every bit as much as Troy's departure. Any defense that loses two players of that caliber will suffer.

Also that "redshirt" stuff is hogwash. The Steelers consistently draft in the lower part of rounds and because they have the luxury of having quality teams on a consistent basis they don't ever have to draft for need. They draft players they feel will fit their scheme and then allow them to develop. If they can contribute right away then they see the field. If not they play special teams and learn. I'm damn glad we aren't one of those teams drafting for a need and hoping that a rookie can contribute immediately!

Steelers Defense struggled in SB43 even with Troy and Aaron. I think SB43 was a preview of what we saw last season. Steelers D was unable to defend the lead. Only good thing that happened in SB43 was Steelers O had time for winning drive.

Steelers have good players on D hence it is difficult for rookies to contribute. But when your starters are injured and backups are crap then rookies have to contribute IMO.

If rookies don't see the field when starters are injured then it tells you 2 things:
Either that rookie is a bust or the defensive schemes are so complicated that they can't understand a thing. I will say the latter.

Steelers don't have DBs that have solid ball skills. I think Dick Lebeau needs to get away with that 10 yard cushion rule. It ain't working if opposing QBs are patient.

skyhawk
07-22-2010, 03:43 PM
But he DID have THREE separate injuries to the same knee in one season.

That's not true. He had ONE knee injury and tweaked the SAME injury trying to come back sooner than he should have.


and his body is failing him lately.

2008 (the season before the freak knee injury) disagrees with you.


I doubt he plays another complete season.

I doubt you will be correct.

Wrong. I read that he had a PCL, MCL, and a patella injury all in the same season.

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 03:51 PM
Steelers Defense struggled in SB43 even with Troy and Aaron. I think SB43 was a preview of what we saw last season. Steelers D was unable to defend the lead. Only good thing that happened in SB43 was Steelers O had time for winning drive.

Steelers have good players on D hence it is difficult for rookies to contribute. But when your starters are injured and backups are crap then rookies have to contribute IMO.

If rookies don't see the field when starters are injured then it tells you 2 things:
Either that rookie is a bust or the defensive schemes are so complicated that they can't understand a thing. I will say the latter.

Steelers don't have DBs that have solid ball skills. I think bad word Lebeau needs to get away with that 10 yard cushion rule. It ain't working if opposing QBs are patient.

Rod Woodson on NFLN: The key to beating a 3-4 defense is in spreading them out, opening up the field and getting good matchups. That is what the Cardinals did to us. That is what a lot of teams did to us in '08 but the D was usually able to get a key turnover and we ended up with a win. Same thing happened in the Superbowl.

The idea behind the cushion is that it keeps everything in front of the D so you aren't giving up big plays even if the QB gets the ball out. It's all predicated on pressuring the QB. Get to the QB, force him to make a bad throw and capitalize. If you fail to get to the QB then at least you aren't giving up big plays. That's the theory behind the bend but don't break defense that we run.

The method the Steelers employ (which has been very successful for many years) is to have your key players and role players backed up by savvy vets. Rookies, if they are able to contribute, will see the field. But only if absolutely needed.

Get rid of that cushion and people will be screaming about our DBs getting beat for long TD after long TD.

And before anyone goes there with the corners, top cover corners command big $. There is a salary cap the Steelers have to work with. Put big money into corners and you have to take it from someone else. Do yinz really wanna see Woodley playing for another team?

Lets face it, nothing is perfect which is why folks need to stop looking at this exclusively from the fan perspective and look at it from the business perspective. The fan perspective is not reality.

cruzer8
07-22-2010, 03:52 PM
But he DID have THREE separate injuries to the same knee in one season.

That's not true. He had ONE knee injury and tweaked the SAME injury trying to come back sooner than he should have.


and his body is failing him lately.

2008 (the season before the freak knee injury) disagrees with you.


I doubt he plays another complete season.

I doubt you will be correct.

Wrong. I read that he had a PCL, MCL, and a patella injury all in the same season.

He damaged them all at the same time when a fat TE fell on him.

One injury. The way you describe it makes it sound like 3 separate injuries that occurred at different times. That is not correct.

skyhawk
07-22-2010, 03:57 PM
But he DID have THREE separate injuries to the same knee in one season.

That's not true. He had ONE knee injury and tweaked the SAME injury trying to come back sooner than he should have.


and his body is failing him lately.

2008 (the season before the freak knee injury) disagrees with you.


I doubt he plays another complete season.

I doubt you will be correct.

Wrong. I read that he had a PCL, MCL, and a patella injury all in the same season.

He damaged them all at the same time when a fat TE fell on him.

One injury. The way you describe it makes it sound like 3 separate injuries that occurred at different times. That is not correct.

Yep 3 separate injuries from what I read or heard on NFL network.

When he came back too fast he likely was not strong enough in the knee yet, and hence the additional injuries.

grotonsteel
07-23-2010, 10:19 AM
Steelers Defense struggled in SB43 even with Troy and Aaron. I think SB43 was a preview of what we saw last season. Steelers D was unable to defend the lead. Only good thing that happened in SB43 was Steelers O had time for winning drive.

Steelers have good players on D hence it is difficult for rookies to contribute. But when your starters are injured and backups are crap then rookies have to contribute IMO.

If rookies don't see the field when starters are injured then it tells you 2 things:
Either that rookie is a bust or the defensive schemes are so complicated that they can't understand a thing. I will say the latter.

Steelers don't have DBs that have solid ball skills. I think bad word Lebeau needs to get away with that 10 yard cushion rule. It ain't working if opposing QBs are patient.

Rod Woodson on NFLN: The key to beating a 3-4 defense is in spreading them out, opening up the field and getting good matchups. That is what the Cardinals did to us. That is what a lot of teams did to us in '08 but the D was usually able to get a key turnover and we ended up with a win. Same thing happened in the Superbowl.

The idea behind the cushion is that it keeps everything in front of the D so you aren't giving up big plays even if the QB gets the ball out. It's all predicated on pressuring the QB. Get to the QB, force him to make a bad throw and capitalize. If you fail to get to the QB then at least you aren't giving up big plays. That's the theory behind the bend but don't break defense that we run.

The method the Steelers employ (which has been very successful for many years) is to have your key players and role players backed up by savvy vets. Rookies, if they are able to contribute, will see the field. But only if absolutely needed.

Get rid of that cushion and people will be screaming about our DBs getting beat for long TD after long TD.

And before anyone goes there with the corners, top cover corners command big $. There is a salary cap the Steelers have to work with. Put big money into corners and you have to take it from someone else. Do yinz really wanna see Woodley playing for another team?

Lets face it, nothing is perfect which is why folks need to stop looking at this exclusively from the fan perspective and look at it from the business perspective. The fan perspective is not reality.

How about drafting a DB with solid ball skills in Rd 1/2 for a change.

Last season our DBs were still getting beat even after 10 yards cushion. I read it from some other Steelers forum that Steelers gave 77 20 yards + plays one of the worst in the league. How many times we have seen Steelers D giving up 3rd and long/ 4th and long? How many times Steelers gave 80 yards TD drive last season.? Obviously the scheme was not working last season.

I really hope this was all because Steelers were missing Aaron Smith and Troy P. Steelers D faced the likes of Palmer,Cassell,Cutler,Gardowski(sp. chk) and Quinn??. And if your defense can't hold these QB to 3 and out when needed then i think time has come to rethink the strategy.

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Steelers Defense struggled in SB43 even with Troy and Aaron. I think SB43 was a preview of what we saw last season. Steelers D was unable to defend the lead. Only good thing that happened in SB43 was Steelers O had time for winning drive.

Steelers have good players on D hence it is difficult for rookies to contribute. But when your starters are injured and backups are crap then rookies have to contribute IMO.

If rookies don't see the field when starters are injured then it tells you 2 things:
Either that rookie is a bust or the defensive schemes are so complicated that they can't understand a thing. I will say the latter.

Steelers don't have DBs that have solid ball skills. I think bad word Lebeau needs to get away with that 10 yard cushion rule. It ain't working if opposing QBs are patient.

Rod Woodson on NFLN: The key to beating a 3-4 defense is in spreading them out, opening up the field and getting good matchups. That is what the Cardinals did to us. That is what a lot of teams did to us in '08 but the D was usually able to get a key turnover and we ended up with a win. Same thing happened in the Superbowl.

The idea behind the cushion is that it keeps everything in front of the D so you aren't giving up big plays even if the QB gets the ball out. It's all predicated on pressuring the QB. Get to the QB, force him to make a bad throw and capitalize. If you fail to get to the QB then at least you aren't giving up big plays. That's the theory behind the bend but don't break defense that we run.

The method the Steelers employ (which has been very successful for many years) is to have your key players and role players backed up by savvy vets. Rookies, if they are able to contribute, will see the field. But only if absolutely needed.

Get rid of that cushion and people will be screaming about our DBs getting beat for long TD after long TD.

And before anyone goes there with the corners, top cover corners command big $. There is a salary cap the Steelers have to work with. Put big money into corners and you have to take it from someone else. Do yinz really wanna see Woodley playing for another team?

Lets face it, nothing is perfect which is why folks need to stop looking at this exclusively from the fan perspective and look at it from the business perspective. The fan perspective is not reality.

How about drafting a DB with solid ball skills in Rd 1/2 for a change.

Last season our DBs were still getting beat even after 10 yards cushion. I read it from some other Steelers forum that Steelers gave 77 20 yards + plays one of the worst in the league. How many times we have seen Steelers D giving up 3rd and long/ 4th and long? How many times Steelers gave 80 yards TD drive last season.? Obviously the scheme was not working last season.

I really hope this was all because Steelers were missing Aaron Smith and Troy P. Steelers D faced the likes of Palmer,Cassell,Cutler,Gardowski(sp. chk) and Quinn??. And if your defense can't hold these QB to 3 and out when needed then i think time has come to rethink the strategy.

I disagree that it's time to change the strategy and so do the coaches and FO apparently. You can't just look at who was missing, you also have to look at who replaced them. And keep in mind that we had Gay instead of McFadden and Gay simply wasn't able to become the full time starter we had hoped. BMac was taken in the 2nd round in '05 and is a very good fit for our defensive scheme. What I expect to see this season, given that we remain healthy, is the opportunistic D we saw in '08. The rules favor the offense so gone are the days of a suffocating D. What works in the NFL now is sound D that creates confusion with the offense and then takes advantage of that confusion. That's what you get with a 3-4. Those 250# guys who like to run and hit cause a lot of problems, but they also need the support of the secondary behind them and a good D line in front of them.

Troy is back, Smith is back and BMac is back. So is Foote. Look for a repeat of '08 from this defense.

ramblinjim
07-23-2010, 11:02 AM
A couple of points though:

Having a plan B for replacing Troy P is paramount to say having a plan B to replace Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed, etc. There really isn't one. We're talking about one of the best safeties to lace them up and there is going to be a serious draw down in talent no matter who comes off the bench. Has their been a safety come out of the draft the last few years with Troy-Like skills? I can't think of any.

One rookie that I REALLY hope does well this year is Emmanuel Sanders.

grotonsteel
07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
Steelers Defense struggled in SB43 even with Troy and Aaron. I think SB43 was a preview of what we saw last season. Steelers D was unable to defend the lead. Only good thing that happened in SB43 was Steelers O had time for winning drive.

Steelers have good players on D hence it is difficult for rookies to contribute. But when your starters are injured and backups are crap then rookies have to contribute IMO.

If rookies don't see the field when starters are injured then it tells you 2 things:
Either that rookie is a bust or the defensive schemes are so complicated that they can't understand a thing. I will say the latter.

Steelers don't have DBs that have solid ball skills. I think bad word Lebeau needs to get away with that 10 yard cushion rule. It ain't working if opposing QBs are patient.

Rod Woodson on NFLN: The key to beating a 3-4 defense is in spreading them out, opening up the field and getting good matchups. That is what the Cardinals did to us. That is what a lot of teams did to us in '08 but the D was usually able to get a key turnover and we ended up with a win. Same thing happened in the Superbowl.

The idea behind the cushion is that it keeps everything in front of the D so you aren't giving up big plays even if the QB gets the ball out. It's all predicated on pressuring the QB. Get to the QB, force him to make a bad throw and capitalize. If you fail to get to the QB then at least you aren't giving up big plays. That's the theory behind the bend but don't break defense that we run.

The method the Steelers employ (which has been very successful for many years) is to have your key players and role players backed up by savvy vets. Rookies, if they are able to contribute, will see the field. But only if absolutely needed.

Get rid of that cushion and people will be screaming about our DBs getting beat for long TD after long TD.

And before anyone goes there with the corners, top cover corners command big $. There is a salary cap the Steelers have to work with. Put big money into corners and you have to take it from someone else. Do yinz really wanna see Woodley playing for another team?

Lets face it, nothing is perfect which is why folks need to stop looking at this exclusively from the fan perspective and look at it from the business perspective. The fan perspective is not reality.

How about drafting a DB with solid ball skills in Rd 1/2 for a change.

Last season our DBs were still getting beat even after 10 yards cushion. I read it from some other Steelers forum that Steelers gave 77 20 yards + plays one of the worst in the league. How many times we have seen Steelers D giving up 3rd and long/ 4th and long? How many times Steelers gave 80 yards TD drive last season.? Obviously the scheme was not working last season.

I really hope this was all because Steelers were missing Aaron Smith and Troy P. Steelers D faced the likes of Palmer,Cassell,Cutler,Gardowski(sp. chk) and Quinn??. And if your defense can't hold these QB to 3 and out when needed then i think time has come to rethink the strategy.

I disagree that it's time to change the strategy and so do the coaches and FO apparently. You can't just look at who was missing, you also have to look at who replaced them. And keep in mind that we had Gay instead of McFadden and Gay simply wasn't able to become the full time starter we had hoped. BMac was taken in the 2nd round in '05 and is a very good fit for our defensive scheme. What I expect to see this season, given that we remain healthy, is the opportunistic D we saw in '08. The rules favor the offense so gone are the days of a suffocating D. What works in the NFL now is sound D that creates confusion with the offense and then takes advantage of that confusion. That's what you get with a 3-4. Those 250# guys who like to run and hit cause a lot of problems, but they also need the support of the secondary behind them and a good D line in front of them.

Troy is back, Smith is back and BMac is back. So is Foote. Look for a repeat of '08 from this defense.


With healthy Troy and Aaron (touchwood) Steelers will hopefully reach 08 level.

Apart from watching Big Ben i enjoy watching dominant Steelers D. Also looking forward to few big hits from Ryan Clark.

grotonsteel
07-23-2010, 11:22 AM
A couple of points though:

Having a plan B for replacing Troy P is paramount to say having a plan B to replace Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed, etc. There really isn't one. We're talking about one of the best safeties to lace them up and there is going to be a serious draw down in talent no matter who comes off the bench. Has their been a safety come out of the draft the last few years with Troy-Like skills? I can't think of any.

One rookie that I REALLY hope does well this year is Emmanuel Sanders.

I don't think there is any player in this world who can play like Troy. He is unique. But i would have gone after Earl Thomas in this draft. Thomas is not physical but he has great ball skills. Opposing QBs would have crapped in their pants seeing Thomas-Polamalu tandem.

Sanders does have the tools to be a successful WR in NFL.

Infact i am dying to see how Dwyer plays with pads on.

Oviedo
07-23-2010, 11:26 AM
As long as we play the 3-4 you can't really change the type of players you have in the secondary. As correctly pointed out, this is about allocating a percentage of the salary cap per each unit, e.g. WRs, OL, DL, LBs, etc., and sticking to it. The strength of LeBeau's current scheme is predicated on having dominant OLBs for the pass rush, a dominant NT to stop the run and a SS who can play a hybrid Safety/LB role. LeBeau's defense is designed for the OLBs to be the what in Blitzkrieg is called the "Schwerpunkt" or focal point. The point is LeBeau's defense is focused on the positions that attack the QB not the one who defend. it is an attackingdefense.

Paying a Darrell Revis-like CB will force you to take money away from one of the other key defensive players who attack the QB. As pointed out neither the coaches or FO seem to want to make that trade off. Keep in mind that the best CB in world can only cover one WR. If you look at last season I don't think it was necessarily the other teams top WR who hurt us. It was those #2 and #3 guys who got open and got receptions because we were not getting to the QB. Getting a shutdown CB (longtime posters will know I think this is a myth) will not change that but it will force you to pay $8-10M per year for that one position.

IMO with the 18% revenue give back the owners are asking for paying a CB that kind of money will be impossible with a cap that will probably be less. My choice is to pay attacking LBs or switch to a 4-3 and pay attacking DL. Put the QB on his back or rush him into a bad throw and I can cover a WR.

RuthlessBurgher
07-23-2010, 11:55 AM
For those doubters who didn't think that I could find a pic for "Schwerpunkt" :lol:

http://www.swissbrands.de/AMMANN_Schwerpunkt.jpg

cruzer8
07-23-2010, 11:59 AM
As long as we play the 3-4 you can't really change the type of players you have in the secondary. As correctly pointed out, this is about allocating a percentage of the salary cap per each unit, e.g. WRs, OL, DL, LBs, etc., and sticking to it. The strength of LeBeau's current scheme is predicated on having dominant OLBs for the pass rush, a dominant NT to stop the run and a SS who can play a hybrid Safety/LB role. LeBeau's defense is designed for the OLBs to be the what in Blitzkrieg is called the "Schwerpunkt" or focal point. The point is LeBeau's defense is focused on the positions that attack the QB not the one who defend. it is an attackingdefense.

Paying a Darrell Revis-like CB will force you to take money away from one of the other key defensive players who attack the QB. As pointed out neither the coaches or FO seem to want to make that trade off. Keep in mind that the best CB in world can only cover one WR. If you look at last season I don't think it was necessarily the other teams top WR who hurt us. It was those #2 and #3 guys who got open and got receptions because we were not getting to the QB. Getting a shutdown CB (longtime posters will know I think this is a myth) will not change that but it will force you to pay $8-10M per year for that one position.

IMO with the 18% revenue give back the owners are asking for paying a CB that kind of money will be impossible with a cap that will probably be less. My choice is to pay attacking LBs or switch to a 4-3 and pay attacking DL. Put the QB on his back or rush him into a bad throw and I can cover a WR.

http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/31122/Thats%20a%20Bingo.jpg

Oviedo
07-23-2010, 12:00 PM
For those doubters who didn't think that I could find a pic for "Schwerpunkt" :lol:

http://www.swissbrands.de/AMMANN_Schwerpunkt.jpg

I'm impressed :Clap