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flippy
07-08-2010, 09:39 AM
The 24x7 coverage of Lebron got me thinking about the impact of free agency on sports.

There's no harm in signing guys to a new team if they aren't wanted or they're too old. But if the best player in a sport can leave his team and go elsewhere, that ruins continuity. It risks alienating fans. And it potentially can make a league non competitive.

Lebron leaving Cleveland would be the equivalent of Manning, Brady, Ben, or Brees leaving Indy, Boston, Pittsburgh or NO respectively.

Maybe this is why the NFL gets it. It's virtually impossible for the best NFLers to leave their team.

Baseball's a joke where the best in the game can leave at any time - A-Rod, Bonds, Griffey, etc.

The NHL has their own hired gun strategy that ends every season. Just like baseball, the NHL puts teams in the playoffs that are way different than the teams that play in the regular season.

In the NBA, you've got Shaq and now Lebron.

Who are these great players that leave their original team? It's weird. It destroys their sport. And it may tarnish their image.

One thing about Lebron that's become absolutely clear - he's a brand first, basketball player second.

But if his brand destroys the brand of the NBA, does that tarnish his legacy long term when his league becomes even more meaningless?

Maybe it helps him short term. But he'll never be remembered like Bird, Magic, Michael, or Dr J. Because the NBA will lose it's allure.

This could be a historic day. The day Lebron ruined all sports.

He's going to be the richest athlete when all is said and done. And others across sports will look at his example and follow.

And when we figure out this ruined the games, it will be too late.

What a shame.

Oviedo
07-08-2010, 11:56 AM
Free agency with no salary cap does ruin sports and creates uneven competition as we have seen in MLB. It works in other sports because there are caps.

Mister Pittsburgh
07-08-2010, 12:15 PM
As someone said, free agency with no cap ruins sports. Greedy, tight fisted owners do as well.

flippy
07-08-2010, 12:32 PM
Is that it? What about the hired guns in hockey? And potential Lebron departure in the NBA. Heck what about soccer for those in the know?

ikestops85
07-08-2010, 12:35 PM
I have a real problem with what is going on in basketball today. I don't like the fact that 2, 3, or even 4 of the best players in the league that are free agents can band together and decide what team they want to play for. I also don't like the fact that trades are done as a means to just "dump" salary. I can't quite put my finger on it but the stuff that has been going on in the NBA lately just seems inherently wrong to me.

flippy
07-08-2010, 12:43 PM
I have a real problem with what is going on in basketball today. I don't like the fact that 2, 3, or even 4 of the best players in the league that are free agents can band together and decide what team they want to play for. I also don't like the fact that trades are done as a means to just "dump" salary. I can't quite put my finger on it but the stuff that has been going on in the NBA lately just seems inherently wrong to me.

agreed. basketball was my favorite sport to play in hs. but I'm a bit bored with the pro game now.

in a sense, bird's celts, magic's lakers, and jordan's bulls were loaded and each had a couple of the best players of their respective generations. so it's always been a little stacked like it looks it will continue to be. i was kinda digging the idea of all the talent being spread around. but the way it's going, carmello will be joining kobe and gasol next year.

MaxAMillion
07-08-2010, 01:12 PM
Why should athletes not enjoy the same rights as everyone else? Lebron is a free agent which means he can decide where he wants to work next. Apparently he is willing to take less money to do it. How is it different than a musician who wants to work for a different label or an actor who wants to work with a different director or studio? Athletes are really just entertainers.

A lot of times fans don't want players to speak or act independently. Just do what you are told. After all, they get paid millions of dollars. I believe players should be free to work for any team in the league who offers a contract (just like every other american).

flippy
07-08-2010, 01:42 PM
Why should athletes not enjoy the same rights as everyone else? Lebron is a free agent which means he can decide where he wants to work next. Apparently he is willing to take less money to do it. How is it different than a musician who wants to work for a different label or an actor who wants to work with a different director or studio? Athletes are really just entertainers.

A lot of times fans don't want players to speak or act independently. Just do what you are told. After all, they get paid millions of dollars. I believe players should be free to work for any team in the league who offers a contract (just like every other american).

Go for it. I have no problem with a guy making his own decision.

I just think it detracts from the game for the fan.

As a fan I want continuity in my team and players.

I prefer a player on my team for life rather than a journeyman. And I think other fans deserve that.

How would you feel to lose Ben in his prime to Jacksonville? or the Titans?

hawaiiansteel
07-08-2010, 02:51 PM
LeBron fiasco likely means franchise tag is going nowhere

Posted by Mike Florio on July 6, 2010


The NFL has seen a situation similar to the Courtship of King James only once, in the very first year of unrestricted free agency. The named plaintiffs in the antitrust lawsuit that spawned the current labor deal could not be restricted via the franchise tag. Thus, the lead plaintiff in the case, Reggie White, was free to leave the Philadelphia Eagles.

Since the events unfolded in the days before the Internet had developed and matured, the meanderings of the Minister of Defense conjured none of the same attention it would generate today. Even so, it would be nothing close to the LeBron lunacy.

Today, there's simply no way that an elite player would be able to hold the entire NFL hostage by nonchalantly entertaining huge-money offers and pulling the sheet off his selection in a cheesy made-for-TV event. The best NFL players don't become unrestricted free agents; they sign long-term extensions, they toil as year-to-year franchise players, or they get traded to a team that will give them the long-term deal they covet.

And while some speculation has emerged that the next labor deal will ditch the concept of the franchise tag, allowing players to finish their contracts and pick their next destinations unfettered, NFL owners likely are watching what the NBA is enduring, and they're surely swearing that they'll never allow one man to become more powerful than the sport itself.

So we'd be shocked if the new CBA dispenses with the franchise tag. And if the NFL's players don't like it, they can thank LeBron James.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... g-nowhere/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/06/lebron-fiasco-likely-means-franchise-tag-is-going-nowhere/)

aggiebones
07-08-2010, 05:05 PM
Favre watch was more obnoxious in my mind and I like Brett.

Basketball was also my favorite sport to play. But I RARELY watch the NBA. Love college basketball now that my Aggies are good.

But I won't watch Lebron show for 5 seconds. I watched some of the NBA Fonals, but that was it. Only cause I was a Celtic fan in my youth.

BURGH86STEEL
07-08-2010, 05:42 PM
Why should athletes not enjoy the same rights as everyone else? Lebron is a free agent which means he can decide where he wants to work next. Apparently he is willing to take less money to do it. How is it different than a musician who wants to work for a different label or an actor who wants to work with a different director or studio? Athletes are really just entertainers.

A lot of times fans don't want players to speak or act independently. Just do what you are told. After all, they get paid millions of dollars. I believe players should be free to work for any team in the league who offers a contract (just like every other american).

I agree. I don't believe FA ruins sports. Free agency can have an opposite effect. Fans get excited at the signing or prospect of signing free agents. We rarely have that big named signing with the Steelers. So, I can understand why some fans might feel that way. That being said, the Steelers managed to sign quality FA's that knew their roles and contributed.

birtikidis
07-09-2010, 09:17 PM
Flippy in the case of Queen James, I think he'll be the one that actually saves sports from free agency. I don't think they can win it all in miami now. they're depth is pathetic, there is tremendous pressure, and all three of these superstars can't be on the court the entire game. When they don't win it all, I think players are going to look at it and see that. The owners in the NBA will eventually wake up and stop treating these individuals as if they're the team.
but i'll make my prediction, the Heat will not win it all next year. And people will start to realize that Queen James has become the most over rated sports figure since Mike Vick.

Snatch98
07-10-2010, 01:04 AM
I don't think anyone is expecting the Heat to win it all this coming season. They still have quite a bit of work to do. I also don't think it's going to ruin the NBA or professional sports. He did what he felt was best for him and his pursuit for a championship. You can also bet your a$$ that veterans that haven't picked up a ring will play with that team to GET A RING. (At vet minimum) Karl Malone left the Jazz and Gary Payton left the Super Sonics and both were on the backside of their career. Guys are going to do the same to play with those three and Pat Riley is a master mind.

I also think it's more than foolish to say Lebron James is overrated. He's 25 and easily the most dominant or arguably the second most dominant player in the NBA. When it's all said and done he'll be remembered as the most dominant. The dude is only 25. He's FAR! from overrated. He'll take a Magic Johnson type role with the heat and I'll bet Wade is the one closing out most games. It will get passed around but Lebron will be happy to make the great pass. Going to the heat minimizes his ego if you ask me because there are 3 legit superstars on that team, well at least 2 and a top 5 big man in Bosh. He wants to win. Period.

EDIT: I also post on a Browns board from time to time. I don't troll, just there for a different viewpoint and some inter-division news. Another Steeler fan did post this.....I was laughing pretty good. Obviously fake and pretty damn funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l62EBOz3 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l62EBOz3Olc&feature=player_embedded)

It was posted after some dipsh.it posted a video of a Steeler fan at the last Super Bowl Parade that fell off a telephone poll he was climbing and on to a car windshield. Dude was okay but apparently it was "hilarious" to all of them. Just some drunked up diehard celebrating our 6th.

birtikidis
07-10-2010, 03:00 AM
I'm sorry, lebron is very overrated.
what has he won?
other than the hype machine, nothing.
they call him King, but meanwhile the best player since Jordan is quietly collecting rings.
he makes the cover of SI with the caption "the best ever"... umm he's not even the best now let alone the best ever.
Could you imagine, for instance, if Peyton manning was proclaimed the best ever and crowned as the king of his sport prior to doing ANYTHING in the NFL.
the only thing I hear about Queen James is how great he is, and all the excuses for why he hasn't won anything.

hawaiiansteel
07-10-2010, 03:26 AM
I'm sorry, lebron is very overrated.

what has he won?

the only thing I hear about Queen James is how great he is, and all the excuses for why he hasn't won anything.


http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/10/queen%20james.jpg

StarSpangledSteeler
07-10-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm going to agree with Flippy here. We as fans, look at our teams like our family. We are "Steeler fans 'til we die" right? Come thick or thin, good seasons or bad, we stick with our team to the death. It's part of who we are. We are, in a word... Loyal. Free agency is many times jumping ship for a "better" situation. We as fans typically don't do that. It would be like switching out family members every time there's a bump in the road. There's something to be said for battling through tough times and sacrificing for the good of the group. As fans, we like watching our young pups be drafted, watching them grow into their prime, watching them hang on as long as they can compete, an watching them retire a Steeler for life. Sometimes that is not possible, but when it is, it makes us feel good about our team and the sport in general (even if it's a player on a different team). I realize free agency is here to stay but that's what makes loyal players such heroes in my mind. They sacrifice personal gain for the good of the team.

Snatch98
07-10-2010, 03:51 PM
He gave Cleveland 7 years and in that seven years they didn't bring him any legit superstar to help in his quest for a ring. In his last year they bring in Jamison and a aging Shaq which clearly didn't get it done. As a kid that entered the league at 18, gave his team 7 years and is now 25 why shouldn't he leave if the Cavs can't bring him in a legit scorer to take some of the load? Kobe has Gasol and a more than solid supporting cast with guys like Odem etc. If the Lakers front office didn't go out and build that team around him do you think Kobe would still be in LA? He had Shaq in his prime as well. And once again the dude is not overrated and to say he is because he hasn't won anything is retarded.

Look at his stats, look at his effect on the Cavaliers, his two MVP's before 25. If he had a legit stud opposite him when they went to the NBA finals they may not have been steam rolled by the Spurs. You can't blame him for leaving and could even make the argument that Cleveland failed him by not putting a team together strong enough to go the distance during the 7 years he was in wine and gold.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-12-2010, 10:43 AM
Believe me, this is something that I have thought about quite a bit lately. I am a fan and former season ticket holder of the team that just lost Lebron's newest running mate.

If I may indulge myself, here are some of my thoughts.......

1) I had this discussion with my 7 year old a few months ago in preparation of him losing his favorite player. Bosh came to Toronto, played 7 years - including re-upping after his rookie deal expired. He fulfilled his agreements but now it is over. How can we be angry? He did everything that he was obligated and expected to do. He played hard for seven years and the team was better for it. I hate players who whine their way out of town: Vince Carter. He continually went down to phantom injuries and whined like a little girl until the team almost had to give him away for nothing. He lacks character and I know that he will never win anything unless he is strictly a passenger.

Bosh and James played hard throughout the lives of their deals (except maybe the last 3 games for Lebron) and as per the rules are free to go wherever they wish. If they want to try to form a dream team in Miami then good luck to them. IMO fans should direct their anger at the front offices of Toronto and Cleveland. If either player had been surrounded by the kind of talent that Kobe has been then maybe they would still be wearing the same uniform as last year.

2) Fans take this kind of thing way too personally. "How can he turn his back on this city?" "How can he be so selfish?" IMO it is the fans who are selfish for expecting an athlete who they do not know to live his life according to their wishes. For a fan this is a pastime. For the athlete this is their life. These guys owe an honest effort throughout the lifetime of their contracts. Once expired, they no longer owe.

3) While I agree that players are free to move as per the contracts that exist, as a fan it was much better in the "good old days". Back in the day when the team owned a player until that team decided to move him. Back then all trades were based on abilities and not contracts. There were no salary dumps. It was awful for the players, but if you want to know what is better for the fans? No player freedom.

birtikidis
07-12-2010, 02:58 PM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

flippy
07-12-2010, 03:17 PM
I'm ok with Lebron being MVP. He's deserving. He's no ball hog and makes those around him way better than they are. he lead a very mediocre cast of players to having the best record in the NBA.

Lebron can pass. He can create. He can get to the line. And he hustles. He's a freak - a giant with so much skill. He can't help the players in Cleveland blow. I think the Heat will be virtually unbeatable.

The only thing Kobe has that Lebron doesn't is a mid range jumper. If Lebron ever starts hitting his jumper, he'll be in a league of his own in NBA history.

All the pundits have been saying it will be hard for Lebron and Wade to play together because they're similar. I say bull. I remember when Lebron got criticized in the past for not taking a last shot and passing. He won't now that he has Wade.

He's a scoring machine without being a ball hog. What other NBA superstar fits that mold? He's like a combo of Magic and Jordan.

I expect the Heat to win the next 5 championships at least.

birtikidis
07-12-2010, 03:33 PM
Flippy, I agree with your take on D. Wade and Queen being on the court together.. that'll be ridiculous... but they are very beatable.. they're bench is gonna be ridiculously bad. you can't have those three on the court every minute of every game and I think by the middle of the season, they're gonna be beat.

feltdizz
07-12-2010, 08:59 PM
It was Cleveland.... why are people talking about it like he was in Boston or LA? LeBron is just suppose to walk onto the Cavs and win a Chip? :wft

It's the Mistake by the Lake... they should be happy a Championship was mentioned in the same sentence with Caves for a few years.

You need 2 stars and at least 2 clutch roll players to win a championship in any team sport.

flippy
07-13-2010, 07:26 AM
What about a Franchise and Transition Tag in the NBA, MLB, etc?

That woulda kept Lebron in Cleveland.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-14-2010, 09:59 AM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

You want to compare the value of Kobe and Lebron then play a game between the Lakers and Cavs without either of those two guys playing.

Shaq, Jamison, Jamario Moon, Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Ilgauskus, Telfair....

vs.

Gasol, Fisher, Artest, Bynum, Odom.......

The Cavs would not be able to keep the game within 25 points.

Add Kobe and Lebron and suddenly it is a much more even game.

But Kobe has rings so he must be far superior.

flippy
07-14-2010, 10:51 AM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

You want to compare the value of Kobe and Lebron then play a game between the Lakers and Cavs without either of those two guys playing.

Shaq, Jamison, Jamario Moon, Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Ilgauskus, Telfair....

vs.

Gasol, Fisher, Artest, Bynum, Odom.......

The Cavs would not be able to keep the game within 25 points.

Add Kobe and Lebron and suddenly it is a much more even game.

But Kobe has rings so he must be far superior.

That's a really interesting way of looking at the MVP question.

Remember to bring this up next time we're discussing the NFL MVP and see if we can apply this thinking in some way.

I actually think I saw enough last year to know Troy is without question, the most deserving of DMVP.

birtikidis
07-14-2010, 01:37 PM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

You want to compare the value of Kobe and Lebron then play a game between the Lakers and Cavs without either of those two guys playing.

Shaq, Jamison, Jamario Moon, Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Ilgauskus, Telfair....

vs.

Gasol, Fisher, Artest, Bynum, Odom.......

The Cavs would not be able to keep the game within 25 points.

Add Kobe and Lebron and suddenly it is a much more even game.

But Kobe has rings so he must be far superior.
IMO opinion both teams would be crappy.. but honestly for you to say the cavs would get beat by 25 points is ridiculous.
and you know what... put just about anyone under phil jackson and I think they're gonna be competitive.
and yes, KOBE is FAR superior to the Queen.

StarSpangledSteeler
07-14-2010, 06:09 PM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

I gotta respectfully disagree. LeBron is a very unselfish player. If he chose to... He could blow Kobe's numbers out of the water.

StarSpangledSteeler
07-14-2010, 06:10 PM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

I gotta respectfully disagree. LeBron is a very unselfish player. If he chose to... He could blow Kobe's numbers out of the water.

eniparadoxgma
07-14-2010, 06:29 PM
KOBE is FAR superior to the Queen.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I gotta respectfully disagree. LeBron is a very unselfish player. If he chose to... He could blow Kobe's numbers out of the water.

And I will respectfully disagree with that. Kobe learned how to play team ball and has been unselfish for awhile now. Lebron is *not* a better scorer than Kobe.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-15-2010, 10:20 AM
Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

You want to compare the value of Kobe and Lebron then play a game between the Lakers and Cavs without either of those two guys playing.

Shaq, Jamison, Jamario Moon, Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Ilgauskus, Telfair....

vs.

Gasol, Fisher, Artest, Bynum, Odom.......

The Cavs would not be able to keep the game within 25 points.

Add Kobe and Lebron and suddenly it is a much more even game.

But Kobe has rings so he must be far superior.
IMO opinion both teams would be crappy.. but honestly for you to say the cavs would get beat by 25 points is ridiculous.
and you know what... put just about anyone under phil jackson and I think they're gonna be competitive.
and yes, KOBE is FAR superior to the Queen.

The fact that you call him the Queen shows that you do have a bias but.......

It really isn't worth arguing which is better as they are both great players and the argument can be made for either but to suggest that one is FAR better than the other is plain wrong.

Your Phil Jackson comments helps make my point. Kobe has definitely benefited from superior coaching.

And as for the 25 points......maybe excessive, but in a neutral site game I would run to lay a dollar or two on the Lakers at -10. The line with both stars in the game would be much tighter than that. Watch Cleveland next year. They won 61 games last year, how many do you think they win next year?

flippy
07-15-2010, 11:51 AM
KOBE is FAR superior to the Queen.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I gotta respectfully disagree. LeBron is a very unselfish player. If he chose to... He could blow Kobe's numbers out of the water.

And I will respectfully disagree with that. Kobe learned how to play team ball and has been unselfish for awhile now. Lebron is *not* a better scorer than Kobe.

They should play one and one and settle it.

IMHO, Kobe's got a better jump shot and that's it. I'm not sure how well Kobe would hold up against Lebron's size/power/speed. He'd have to pull out some old man tricks on the court to beat Lebron.

I also think you could argue the Lakers carried Kobe in the finals. He had some bad games from what I saw.

And I also think you can make a case for Wade being right there with Kobe and Lebron.

birtikidis
07-15-2010, 12:16 PM
[quote=birtikidis]Snatch, I'm gonna admit that I don't watch Basketball all that much any more. But from what I do follow, in my mind, Queen James wasn't the MVP of the NBA... Kobe is on a whole other plane then he is. He's the product of a hype machine. ESPN blows him so hard, and they have since he was a rookie, that it was a foregone conclusion that he was gonna win one eventually. He deserves the MVP as much as Ray Lewis deserves Pro Bowl selections.

You want to compare the value of Kobe and Lebron then play a game between the Lakers and Cavs without either of those two guys playing.

Shaq, Jamison, Jamario Moon, Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Ilgauskus, Telfair....

vs.

Gasol, Fisher, Artest, Bynum, Odom.......

The Cavs would not be able to keep the game within 25 points.

Add Kobe and Lebron and suddenly it is a much more even game.

But Kobe has rings so he must be far superior.
IMO opinion both teams would be crappy.. but honestly for you to say the cavs would get beat by 25 points is ridiculous.
and you know what... put just about anyone under phil jackson and I think they're gonna be competitive.
and yes, KOBE is FAR superior to the Queen.

The fact that you call him the Queen shows that you do have a bias but.......

It really isn't worth arguing which is better as they are both great players and the argument can be made for either but to suggest that one is FAR better than the other is plain wrong.

Your Phil Jackson comments helps make my point. Kobe has definitely benefited from superior coaching.

And as for the 25 points......maybe excessive, but in a neutral site game I would run to lay a dollar or two on the Lakers at -10. The line with both stars in the game would be much tighter than that. Watch Cleveland next year. They won 61 games last year, how many do you think they win next year?[/quote:78s446ty]
I call him queen because I'm sick and tired of how ESPN and all the other blowhards make him out to be the greatest player ever. Not just now, but EVER. He's not even the best player now.
who cares if he benefits from better coaching. should kobe leave just to prove that he can do it with out shaq AND Jackson?
You're right, I doubt Cleveland wins 61 games. to lose your head coach and your best player, there's no way they do it again. and that illustrates another thing I hate about queen and the NBA. fire a guy after he coaches a team to 61 games but whine and cry that the guy who tanked it in the playoffs leaves? ridiculous.