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ter1230_4
06-24-2010, 07:26 PM
I have been critical of Big Ben's conduct in the Georgia incident from the beginning. I think that he acted immaturely and put himself in the kind of position that the Franchise QB for our Pittsburgh Steelers should never be in. However, as time goes by it has become all too apparent that Roethlisberger has been treated unfairly by the media. The latest example of this is the way that the media is handling the story about Johan Santana that came out yesterday. In case you haven't heard (and it wouldn't be hard to miss given how it's being handled), it turns out that last October a 31 year old woman who is a neighbor accused Santana of raping her at night in a nearby golf course. After investigation, the Florida officials decided in January not to prosecute Santana. The AP story managed to include in their meager 150 word story the fact that the after the alleged rape the woman went to watch Santana play tennis, which is obviously intended to cast doubt on the rape allegation. What the AP somehow managed to leave out of their story is that the authorities were able to obtain a positive DNA match between Santana and semen that the alleged victim wiped off her thigh with her panties. They also managed to leave out the fact that Santana is married with three children.

So what we have here is Santana accused of rape, and not prosecuted because the DA felt that there was not enough evidence to get a conviction. Isn't that exactly the same thing that Ben went through in the Georgia incident? So why is the media so quick to sweep the story about Santana under the rug after they spent months demonizing Big Ben?

Crash
06-24-2010, 07:41 PM
Ben is white.

Also, they didn't even have probable cause to charge Ben.

A semen match for Santana would provide at least that.

So no, it's not even the same.

ter1230_4
06-24-2010, 07:50 PM
Crash, when you say that "it's not even the same", I assume that you mean that Santana was more deserving of prosecution than Big Ben was, and I couldn't agree more. If that Georgia DA had been able to get a DNA match between Ben and any semen on that girl, you KNOW Ben would have been prosecuted. Take a look at the police report, it's on The Smoking Gun website. The accuser has a far more credible story about what happened than Santana does.

hawaiiansteel
06-24-2010, 07:59 PM
Carlos wouldn't do a thing like that... :D


http://m.stc.tamtay.vn/files/ttmusic/assets/images/artist/2010/03/13/b72f80f0d13b4701435065b63df033b0.jpg

Crash
06-24-2010, 08:32 PM
For Bright to state they didn't have probable cause for an arrest of Ben is HUGE considering it's a rape case.

But media, both nationally and in Pittsburgh have choosen to ignore that part of the press conference.

Why? You'd have to ask them.

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 08:42 PM
Who is Santana? Maybe that is the reason?

ter1230_4
06-24-2010, 08:44 PM
Yeah Feltdizz, you're a real genius. Johan Santana is one of the highest paid pitchers in baseball. Actually, he probably makes more than Roethlisberger does.

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 08:45 PM
Ben is white.

Also, they didn't even have probable cause to charge Ben.

A semen match for Santana would provide at least that.

So no, it's not even the same.
Ben is white? :shock:

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 08:47 PM
Yeah Feltdizz, you're a real genius. Johan Santana is one of the highest paid pitchers in baseball. Actually, he probably makes more than Roethlisberger does.

baseball? Why would I know or care about a baseball player?

fezziwig
06-24-2010, 09:15 PM
Why you ask ?

1. Bens a popular player for Americas favorite sport.

2. There were witnesses to seeing Ben that night. Not doing anything wrong but, he was out and about.


3. Bens hanging out with college kids.

4. Ben was accused already and now in Georgia.

5. The media doesn't like Ben because he is or was a jerk to most of them.

6. Finally they can bust on a white guy and I'm sure that's a nice change of pace for the media types. Not trying to sir the pot or be racist but, not as many white players in the league so, dish out what you can.

hawaiiansteel
06-24-2010, 09:19 PM
Yeah Feltdizz, you're a real genius. Johan Santana is one of the highest paid pitchers in baseball. Actually, he probably makes more than Roethlisberger does.

baseball? Why would I know or care about a baseball player?


Baseball? There's no crying in baseball...

http://laloosh76.typepad.com/.a/6a010536a1ec4c970b012875c5ed12970c-pi

NJ-STEELER
06-24-2010, 09:51 PM
Yeah Feltdizz, you're a real genius. .


:lol:

fordfixer
06-24-2010, 10:34 PM
Baseball is just filler until football starts

stlrz d
06-24-2010, 11:35 PM
[quote="ter1230_4":tog3cki9]Yeah Feltdizz, you're a real genius. .


:lol:[/quote:tog3cki9]

:lol:

stlrz d
06-24-2010, 11:36 PM
Btw, this is the first I've heard of this.

This is a big deal and should be everywhere!

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 11:59 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":3s25uwhy][quote="ter1230_4":3s25uwhy]Yeah Feltdizz, you're a real genius. .


:lol:[/quote:3s25uwhy]

:lol:[/quote:3s25uwhy]

teehee 8)

Crash
06-25-2010, 12:26 AM
Btw, this is the first I've heard of this.

This is a big deal and should be everywhere!

Yep. And media (especially in NY) are going to try and sell me the fact that no one knew?

Spare me.

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2010, 01:37 AM
Btw, this is the first I've heard of this.

This is a big deal and should be everywhere!

Yep. And media (especially in NY) are going to try and sell me the fact that no one knew?

Spare me.

For the record, I had never heard about any Johan Santana incident either until you posted it.

But then again, I could give two craps about baseball.

When I saw the title "So Why is Santana Treated So Differently?" I wondered to myself "What did Santana Moss do?"

hawaiiansteel
06-25-2010, 01:54 AM
Johan Santana Says He Can’t Talk About Sexual Assualt Allegations

June 25th, 2010 by ChalkMLB


http://www.sportsuntapped.com/wp-content/uploads-medium/2010/06/johan-santana-dark.jpg


After TMZ broke the news that Mets pitcher Johan Santana had been accused last year of sexual assault in Florida and that no charges were filed, the ace had little to say in a prepared four-sentence statement. He acknowledged that police investigated but closed the case without filing charges. “Unfortunately at this time, that’s all I can say,” the pitcher added.

As his accuser could still file a civil claim, it’s understandable from a legal point of view. The Mets offered their own two sentence statement:

We’re aware of the situation. It’s a personal matter.

Seems like the Mets had more to say about Lady Gaga-gate.

The Smoking Gun has the full police report. Santana and his accuser both agree they had sex on a golf course, that Santana’s sperm ended up on her thigh, and that she walked with him to meet his father and another friend playing tennis within thirty minutes. With Santana’s father and friend as witnesses, there was obviously reasonable doubt. But only Santana and his accuser know what really happened.

http://www.sportsuntapped.com/johan-san ... ons-19709/ (http://www.sportsuntapped.com/johan-santana-says-he-cant-talk-about-sexual-assualt-allegations-19709/)

Northern_Blitz
06-25-2010, 06:32 AM
They didn't make a big deal about Ben's first accusation either.

proudpittsburgher
06-25-2010, 06:55 AM
They didn't make a big deal about Ben's first accusation either.


You are correct, sir. In fact, their burrying of the story and their justification thereafter showed that they kind of supported Ben at the world wide leader.

feltdizz
06-25-2010, 07:15 AM
Btw, this is the first I've heard of this.

This is a big deal and should be everywhere!

Yep. And media (especially in NY) are going to try and sell me the fact that no one knew?

Spare me.

For the record, I had never heard about any Johan Santana incident either until you posted it.

But then again, I could give two craps about baseball.

When I saw the title "So Why is Santana Treated So Differently?" I wondered to myself "What did Santana Moss do?"

I thought someone misspelled Santonio's name... and I'm a real genius.

Baseball? What's next, soccer scandals? :wft

SteelAbility
06-25-2010, 07:55 AM
A. Football is, in point of fact, much bigger in the American psyche than baseball.
B. Ben is a two-time SB winner. Not sure Santana has won anything other than a big contract.
C. McNulty case pumped up the GA case.
D. Ben has (apparently) been a jerk to the media, plus the rumors from Pittsburgh restaraunt owners about Ben being a jerk made him unpopular in certain ways in DA 'Burgh.

That being said, the Santana case should have received some attention for sure. My guess is that it didn't because of A above and/or there were other overshadowing news stories at the time. The Santana story came out in the middle of football season. The Ben story came out just as the national sports yawn was reaching the height of its jaw stretch.

stlrz d
06-25-2010, 08:00 AM
They didn't make a big deal about Ben's first accusation either.

Yup. I never heard a thing about it.

/deadpan

MeetJoeGreene
06-25-2010, 08:23 AM
They didn't make a big deal about Ben's first accusation either.


You are correct, sir. In fact, their burrying of the story and their justification thereafter showed that they kind of supported Ben at the world wide leader.

Perhaps you two were vacationing in outer Mongolia then, but Ben's first accusation was splashed ALL over.

flippy
06-25-2010, 08:29 AM
Btw, this is the first I've heard of this.

This is a big deal and should be everywhere!

Yep. And media (especially in NY) are going to try and sell me the fact that no one knew?

Spare me.

For the record, I had never heard about any Johan Santana incident either until you posted it.

But then again, I could give two craps about baseball.

When I saw the title "So Why is Santana Treated So Differently?" I wondered to myself "What did Santana Moss do?"

I almost just typed this.

Seriously though, we shoulda heard about this already.

Guess no one cares about baseball anymore.

Captain Lemming
06-25-2010, 09:27 AM
Ben is white.


Crash, you are so ridiculous.
It is bigger news because BEN is bigger news.

Before Ben's SECOND accusation, who was the biggest such scandal? Kobe.
The biggest name of all EVER to not only be accused but CONVICTED, Mike Tyson.

Literally DOZENS of wrongly imprisoned black men are being exonerated due to DNA. You have one man who was at a party far from the crime with MANY witnesses of his innocence convicted on the mistaken eye witness testimony of ONE white woman.

If you are wrongly accused you do NOT want to be a black man accused by a white woman, especially if she believes it due to mistaken ID. No other scenario is as likely to get you convicted unless you are a gazzilionaire with a powerful legal team and payoff cash.

You have THE NERVE to bring race into this thing?

This happened to Ben TWICE, Crash.

Please provide the proof of a PATTERN to back up your ridiculous assertion?

feltdizz
06-25-2010, 09:40 AM
Ben is white.


Crash, you are so ridiculous.
It is bigger news because BEN is bigger news.

Before Ben's SECOND accusation, who was the biggest such scandal? Kobe.
The biggest name of all EVER to not only be accused but CONVICTED, Mike Tyson.

Literally DOZENS of wrongly imprisoned black men are being exonerated due to DNA. You have one man who was at a party far from the crime with MANY witnesses of his innocence convicted on the mistaken eye witness testimony of ONE white woman.

You have THE NERVE to bring race into this thing?

This happened to Ben TWICE, Crash.

Please provide the proof of a PATTERN to back up your ridiculous assertion?

Do not feed the troll.. LOL

Crash doesn't leave home without his race card.

phillyesq
06-25-2010, 10:18 AM
Btw, this is the first I've heard of this.

This is a big deal and should be everywhere!

Yep. And media (especially in NY) are going to try and sell me the fact that no one knew?

Spare me.

For the record, I had never heard about any Johan Santana incident either until you posted it.

But then again, I could give two craps about baseball.

When I saw the title "So Why is Santana Treated So Differently?" I wondered to myself "What did Santana Moss do?"

I am a baseball fan and I never heard anything about this. Not only that, I'm a Phillies fan. The Muts are to the Phillies what the Browns or Bungles are to the Steelers. If this had been out there, I can guarantee that the philly fans would have picked up on it.

phillyesq
06-25-2010, 10:20 AM
And on the topic of people being treated differently, a few days ago I saw a story about allegations against Al Gore from 2006 that were buried. No reporting then, and even though it briefly resurfaced, no reporting now.

proudpittsburgher
06-25-2010, 10:47 AM
They didn't make a big deal about Ben's first accusation either.


You are correct, sir. In fact, their burrying of the story and their justification thereafter showed that they kind of supported Ben at the world wide leader.

Perhaps you two were vacationing in outer Mongolia then, but Ben's first accusation was splashed ALL over.

It's not true. Sure, they mentioned the story, but were very very careful with what kind of light they put on the story, and I remember distinctly that many on ESPN radio, including Steeler hater Colin Cowherd, said he wasn't going to talk about the story in depth until the details started to flesh out, because it didn't seem credible on the surface. And I heard all fo that from outer Mongolia.

Crash
06-25-2010, 11:11 AM
You have THE NERVE to bring race into this thing?

I didn't. Black media as well as current and former black players did.

"Treat Ben like Vick"

"Treat Ben like Pac Man"

That was the battle cry.

And you know damn well what the implication is.

Accusations mean dick to me. ANYONE can be accused.

Charge Ben with a crime, then talk.


Before Ben's SECOND accusation, who was the biggest such scandal?

The Duke lacrosse team was destroyed in the media. They were destroyed on their own campus.

Kobe? He was charged. Then he paid off his accuser to avoid a civil suit.

Tyson? He was charged, and convicted.

NEITHER of them, received nearly the backlash that white, and uncharged Ben Roethlisberger did.

hawaiiansteel
06-25-2010, 01:56 PM
And on the topic of people being treated differently, a few days ago I saw a story about allegations against Al Gore from 2006 that were buried. No reporting then, and even though it briefly resurfaced, no reporting now.



that's because Al Gore is white... :lol:

Crash
06-25-2010, 02:12 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=al+gore& ... 7489447179 (http://www.google.com/search?q=al+gore&hl=en&prmd=nlvbi&source=lnms&tbs=nws:1&ei=E_EkTLXPHMSqlAf_7r25Ag&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&ved=0CBYQ_AU&cts=1277489447179)

That sure looks like reporting to me.

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2010, 02:31 PM
And on the topic of people being treated differently, a few days ago I saw a story about allegations against Al Gore from 2006 that were buried. No reporting then, and even though it briefly resurfaced, no reporting now.



that's because Al Gore is white... :lol:

No, it's because Al Gore invented the interwebz...if anyone badmouthed Gore on the interwebz, he'd make sure that they got kicked off the interwebz. :wink:

ter1230_4
06-25-2010, 02:56 PM
I think that there are the following three main reasons why Johann Santana is being treated so differently from the way that Ben Roethlisberger was treated for what appear to be fairly similar incidents, and they are ranked in order of less important to most important:

1. The prior incident. Although it is readily apparent to anyone paying attention that McNulty is a psycho-chick, this allows the Ben haters discussed below to argue "pattern of behavior," "where there is smoke there is fire," and so on and so forth. This is totally on Ben, because even if he was completely innocent in both cases it was his hedonistic lifestyle which resulted in him being in a position where these woman could make their claims. It's a matter of simple statistics. Some percentage of one night hook-ups are going to result in a problem. I don't know what that percentage is, but I'm sure it's higher for famous atheletes than it is for ordinary mortals. If you do enough one nighters with women you don't know, then sooner or later you're going to have a problem. And I think Ben has been living the one-nighter party hearty lifestyle for quite a while, which has to change.


2. The incredible differences between the Georgia and Florida investigations. In Ben's case TMZ had the story within hours, and so for an entire month the big story was whether or not Ben was going to be charged. And then even when Mr. Bright decided not to charge Ben he still had to take advantage of his 15 minutes of fame to slander Ben. In Santana's case, the story did not come out until months after the decision had already been made not to prosecute, so there wasn't the same saturation coverage on whether or not he would be charged, and there was nothing left for the story. Like Crash, I find it pretty unbelievable that the Santana story did not come out sooner, but I guess it's possible that the police, the Mets, Santana's attorneys, et al managed to avoid leaks. Having read the Santana police report, it looks to me like a much stronger case than the one against Ben.

3. New York (including the media) HATES Ben Roethlisberger. Which is a big deal, because New York is the center of sports media in this country. The major tv networks have their headquarters there, ESPN is located in nearby Connecticut, etc. Why does New York hate Ben? Because the Giants could (and should) have taken Ben instead of Eli Manning, and after 6 years it's clear to any football fan with an IQ above single digits that Ben is the far better QB. So the New York centric media delights in any failure by Ben, and is thrilled at any opportunity they have to run him down. You think I'm being paranoid? Within days after the Georgia incident was reported, a columnist in the New York Post wrote that this was the final proof that vindicated the Giants for making the correct decision and taking Eli instead of Ben. And in Santana's case, the New York media was not only not going to trash a Mets player, I think that there is a high likelihood that they sat on the story to protect him.

feltdizz
06-25-2010, 03:02 PM
I think that there are the following three main reasons why Johann Santana is being treated so differently from the way that Ben Roethlisberger was treated for what appear to be fairly similar incidents, and they are ranked in order of less important to most important:

1. The prior incident. Although it is readily apparent to anyone paying attention that McNulty is a psycho-chick, this allows the Ben haters discussed below to argue "pattern of behavior," "where there is smoke there is fire," and so on and so forth. This is totally on Ben, because even if he was completely innocent in both cases it was his hedonistic lifestyle which resulted in him being in a position where these woman could make their claims. It's a matter of simple statistics. Some percentage of one night hook-ups are going to result in a problem. I don't know what that percentage is, but I'm sure it's higher for famous atheletes than it is for ordinary mortals. If you do enough one nighters with women you don't know, then sooner or later you're going to have a problem. And I think Ben has been living the one-nighter party hearty lifestyle for quite a while, which has to change.


2. The incredible differences between the Georgia and Florida investigations. In Ben's case TMZ had the story within hours, and so for an entire month the big story was whether or not Ben was going to be charged. And then even when Mr. Bright decided not to charge Ben he still had to take advantage of his 15 minutes of fame to slander Ben. In Santana's case, the story did not come out until months after the decision had already been made not to prosecute, so there wasn't the same saturation coverage on whether or not he would be charged, and there was nothing left for the story. Like Crash, I find it pretty unbelievable that the Santana story did not come out sooner, but I guess it's possible that the police, the Mets, Santana's attorneys, et al managed to avoid leaks. Having read the Santana police report, it looks to me like a much stronger case than the one against Ben.

3. New York (including the media) HATES Ben Roethlisberger. Which is a big deal, because New York is the center of sports media in this country. The major tv networks have their headquarters there, ESPN is located in nearby Connecticut, etc. Why does New York hate Ben? Because the Giants could (and should) have taken Ben instead of Eli Manning, and after 6 years it's clear to any football fan with an IQ above single digits that Ben is the far better QB. So the New York centric media delights in any failure by Ben, and is thrilled at any opportunity they have to run him down. You think I'm being paranoid? Within days after the Georgia incident was reported, a columnist in the New York Post wrote that this was the final proof that vindicated the Giants for making the correct decision and taking Eli instead of Ben. And in Santana's case, the New York media was not only not going to trash a Mets player, I think that there is a high likelihood that they sat on the story to protect him.

The girl introduced Santana to her dad RIGHT AFTER they did it... and since she didn't scream "kill him DADDY!" the case had no real legs... IMO. If Santana had a previous accusation and this happened the I would agree it was swept under the rug. Then again it could've been on the news for 5 days straight and I wouldn't have noticed. I don't care about him or NY baseball...


You are wasting precious megabites with this argument. Stick to football please.

cruzer8
06-25-2010, 03:21 PM
I think that there are the following three main reasons why Johann Santana is being treated so differently from the way that Ben Roethlisberger was treated for what appear to be fairly similar incidents, and they are ranked in order of less important to most important:

1. The prior incident. Although it is readily apparent to anyone paying attention that McNulty is a psycho-chick, this allows the Ben haters discussed below to argue "pattern of behavior," "where there is smoke there is fire," and so on and so forth. This is totally on Ben, because even if he was completely innocent in both cases it was his hedonistic lifestyle which resulted in him being in a position where these woman could make their claims. It's a matter of simple statistics. Some percentage of one night hook-ups are going to result in a problem. I don't know what that percentage is, but I'm sure it's higher for famous atheletes than it is for ordinary mortals. If you do enough one nighters with women you don't know, then sooner or later you're going to have a problem. And I think Ben has been living the one-nighter party hearty lifestyle for quite a while, which has to change.


2. The incredible differences between the Georgia and Florida investigations. In Ben's case TMZ had the story within hours, and so for an entire month the big story was whether or not Ben was going to be charged. And then even when Mr. Bright decided not to charge Ben he still had to take advantage of his 15 minutes of fame to slander Ben. In Santana's case, the story did not come out until months after the decision had already been made not to prosecute, so there wasn't the same saturation coverage on whether or not he would be charged, and there was nothing left for the story. Like Crash, I find it pretty unbelievable that the Santana story did not come out sooner, but I guess it's possible that the police, the Mets, Santana's attorneys, et al managed to avoid leaks. Having read the Santana police report, it looks to me like a much stronger case than the one against Ben.

3. New York (including the media) HATES Ben Roethlisberger. Which is a big deal, because New York is the center of sports media in this country. The major tv networks have their headquarters there, ESPN is located in nearby Connecticut, etc. Why does New York hate Ben? Because the Giants could (and should) have taken Ben instead of Eli Manning, and after 6 years it's clear to any football fan with an IQ above single digits that Ben is the far better QB. So the New York centric media delights in any failure by Ben, and is thrilled at any opportunity they have to run him down. You think I'm being paranoid? Within days after the Georgia incident was reported, a columnist in the New York Post wrote that this was the final proof that vindicated the Giants for making the correct decision and taking Eli instead of Ben. And in Santana's case, the New York media was not only not going to trash a Mets player, I think that there is a high likelihood that they sat on the story to protect him.

You're making a few assumptions there, aren't you? Isn't, "Where there's smoke there's fire" also an assumption?

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2010, 03:42 PM
Isn't, "Where there's smoke there's fire" also an assumption?

Where there's smoke, there could be one of these instead of a fire:

http://www.madeffects.com/ekmps/shops/madeffectsltd77/images/cyclone-4000-turbo-smoke-machine-63-c.jpg

Let's just say in Ben's case, that the media seems to be an awfully powerful smoke machine.

:stirpot

hawaiiansteel
06-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Isn't, "Where there's smoke there's fire" also an assumption?

Where there's smoke, there could be one of these instead of a fire:

http://www.madeffects.com/ekmps/shops/madeffectsltd77/images/cyclone-4000-turbo-smoke-machine-63-c.jpg

Let's just say in Ben's case, that the media seems to be an awfully powerful smoke machine.

:stirpot



or it could just be a Smoke Monster...

http://thegirlfromtheghetto.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lost-smoke-monster-560w.jpg

ter1230_4
06-25-2010, 04:17 PM
Feltdizz, you're not particularly intelligent are you? Santana was playing tennis with HIS father after the alleged incident. The woman did NOT introduce Santana to her father. And this topic is relevant to football, because it concerns how the media has mistreated our Franchise QB which was a key factor in him not being available to play at least 25 % of the upcoming season.

RuthlessBurgher
06-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Isn't, "Where there's smoke there's fire" also an assumption?

Where there's smoke, there could be one of these instead of a fire:

http://www.madeffects.com/ekmps/shops/madeffectsltd77/images/cyclone-4000-turbo-smoke-machine-63-c.jpg

Let's just say in Ben's case, that the media seems to be an awfully powerful smoke machine.

:stirpot



or it could just be a Smoke Monster...

http://thegirlfromtheghetto.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lost-smoke-monster-560w.jpg

One of the sorority sisters told me that they saw a pants-less Ben take the island polar bear inside the hatch, while Hurley stood guard outside. The bear was overheard saying "ROARRARRRGGRRRGH" which she said translates to "I don't think this is okay" in polar bear talk.

feltdizz
06-25-2010, 05:17 PM
Feltdizz, you're not particularly intelligent are you? Santana was playing tennis with HIS father after the alleged incident. The woman did NOT introduce Santana to her father. And this topic is relevant to football, because it concerns how the media has mistreated our Franchise QB which was a key factor in him not being available to play at least 25 % of the upcoming season.

I made a mistake on who's father they met... my bad. This still has nothing to do with Ben's situation.

Most of the frustration was from Steeler fans... we are tired of Ben stories every offseason. Stop looking for other guys to blame or other circumstances because none of them will help Ben. It's going to be a long year... I wouldn't spend it looking for other rape accusations or suspensions.. none of them will change Ben's past incidents.

stlrz d
06-25-2010, 09:39 PM
Feltdizz, you're not particularly intelligent are you? Santana was playing tennis with HIS father after the alleged incident. The woman did NOT introduce Santana to her father. And this topic is relevant to football, because it concerns how the media has mistreated our Franchise QB which was a key factor in him not being available to play at least 25 % of the upcoming season.


Most of the frustration was with Steeler fans...

Fixed.

frankthetank1
06-26-2010, 09:51 AM
Feltdizz, you're not particularly intelligent are you? Santana was playing tennis with HIS father after the alleged incident. The woman did NOT introduce Santana to her father. And this topic is relevant to football, because it concerns how the media has mistreated our Franchise QB which was a key factor in him not being available to play at least 25 % of the upcoming season.

I made a mistake on who's father they met... my bad. This still has nothing to do with Ben's situation.

Most of the frustration was from Steeler fans... we are tired of Ben stories every offseason. Stop looking for other guys to blame or other circumstances because none of them will help Ben. It's going to be a long year... I wouldn't spend it looking for other rape accusations or suspensions.. none of them will change Ben's past incidents.

its not blaming anyone for bens problem the last two offseasons. the point is ben gets a 6 game suspension and other players get a slap on the wrist. what vince young did was just as bad imo. a fight in a strip club? imo conducting yourself in that way off the field is a bigger violation of the rule than partying with some drunk sluts. we all know whats done is done and nothing will change ben sitting out 4-6 games, but there should be equality.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 12:10 PM
Feltdizz, you're not particularly intelligent are you? Santana was playing tennis with HIS father after the alleged incident. The woman did NOT introduce Santana to her father. And this topic is relevant to football, because it concerns how the media has mistreated our Franchise QB which was a key factor in him not being available to play at least 25 % of the upcoming season.

I made a mistake on who's father they met... my bad. This still has nothing to do with Ben's situation.

Most of the frustration was from Steeler fans... we are tired of Ben stories every offseason. Stop looking for other guys to blame or other circumstances because none of them will help Ben. It's going to be a long year... I wouldn't spend it looking for other rape accusations or suspensions.. none of them will change Ben's past incidents.

its not blaming anyone for bens problem the last two offseasons. the point is ben gets a 6 game suspension and other players get a slap on the wrist. what vince young did was just as bad imo. a fight in a strip club? imo conducting yourself in that way off the field is a bigger violation of the rule than partying with some drunk sluts. we all know whats done is done and nothing will change ben sitting out 4-6 games, but there should be equality.

Equality for different accusations and different circumstances? I'm having a hard time understanding the logic on this one... If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick AFTER being accused of rape a year earlier that is your opinion but... if the situations were reversed I'm pretty sure you would also flip your logic.

When the headlines read "Steeler's QB, Big Ben accused of a second sexual assault" it put Ben on a different level.

Crash
06-26-2010, 12:25 PM
When the headlines read "Steeler's QB, Big Ben accused of a second sexual assault" it put Ben on a different level.

But when one looks at the evidence? The only level this Georgia s**t puts him on his one of being falsely accused of it.

That's why the local media (who Ben didn't cater to) has pretty much stopped reporting on this case once the DVDs became public. Because you can't slant a DVD or a CD in print.

Those soundbytes exposed the local media for BS reporting they did on this. Which is now why they have decided to "move on".

grotonsteel
06-26-2010, 12:27 PM
If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick


20 years old is not "underage" to indulge in sexual activities.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 12:35 PM
If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick


20 years old is not "underage" to indulge in sexual activities.

I didn't say she was a minor :roll:

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 12:41 PM
When the headlines read "Steeler's QB, Big Ben accused of a second sexual assault" it put Ben on a different level.

But when one looks at the evidence? The only level this Georgia s**t puts him on his one of being falsely accused of it.

That's why the local media (who Ben didn't cater to) has pretty much stopped reporting on this case once the DVDs became public. Because you can't slant a DVD or a CD in print.

Those soundbytes exposed the local media for BS reporting they did on this. Which is now why they have decided to "move on".

the reporting pretty much stopped a week after the suspension. They moved on because the story reached a climax (no pun)

Plenty of media sources said regardless of charges Ben screwed up by putting himself in another position where a chick could bring him down.

I have no idea why so many are focusing on guilty or innocent. It's not about guilt, it's about player conduct and damaging the NFL brand. Everyone wanted Ben to be seen as elite but that comes with extra responsibilities... now all of a sudden fans want Ben to be treated like the average NFL no name....

Crash
06-26-2010, 12:50 PM
It's not about guilt, it's about player conduct and damaging the NFL brand.

Vincent Jackson is one of the premier WR's in this league, he also has three convictions since 2006, including TWO for DUI. And he hasn't been suspended.

So don't talk to me about "player conduct and damaging the NFL brand" as long as black, and the twice convicted of DUI Vincent Jackson plays, and the white, uncharged Ben sits.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 01:33 PM
It's not about guilt, it's about player conduct and damaging the NFL brand.

Vincent Jackson is one of the premier WR's in this league, he also has three convictions since 2006, including TWO for DUI. And he hasn't been suspended.

So don't talk to me about "player conduct and damaging the NFL brand" as long as black, and the twice convicted of DUI Vincent Jackson plays, and the white, uncharged Ben sits.

Jackson is not a high profile WR. We played them 5 times the last 3 years and I heard his name maybe once or twice. No US news organization will stop the presses because Vince Jackson got in trouble.

He will be suspended for 2 to 4 games and guess what? You and I won't care because he isn't a Steeler.

How favorable was Holmes treated by Goodell and the Steelers? He sure benefited from his blackness :roll:

Crash
06-26-2010, 01:44 PM
How favorable was Holmes treated by Goodell and the Steelers?

Arrested in 2006: No NFL suspension.

Arrested again in 2006: No NFL suspension.

Arrested again in 2008: No NFL suspension. Steelers suspend him one game.

Intermission Report: That would be three arrests, no NFL suspension, and only had one missed game due to a team suspension. Let's continue.

Accused in civil suit: No NFL suspension.

Failed second drug test: By rule, 4 game suspension, Steelers finally trade him.

I'd say compared to Ben? Holmes has been treated like a King by both Goodell and the Steelers.

Wouldn't you agree?

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

frankthetank1
06-26-2010, 01:56 PM
Feltdizz, you're not particularly intelligent are you? Santana was playing tennis with HIS father after the alleged incident. The woman did NOT introduce Santana to her father. And this topic is relevant to football, because it concerns how the media has mistreated our Franchise QB which was a key factor in him not being available to play at least 25 % of the upcoming season.

I made a mistake on who's father they met... my bad. This still has nothing to do with Ben's situation.

Most of the frustration was from Steeler fans... we are tired of Ben stories every offseason. Stop looking for other guys to blame or other circumstances because none of them will help Ben. It's going to be a long year... I wouldn't spend it looking for other rape accusations or suspensions.. none of them will change Ben's past incidents.

its not blaming anyone for bens problem the last two offseasons. the point is ben gets a 6 game suspension and other players get a slap on the wrist. what vince young did was just as bad imo. a fight in a strip club? imo conducting yourself in that way off the field is a bigger violation of the rule than partying with some drunk sluts. we all know whats done is done and nothing will change ben sitting out 4-6 games, but there should be equality.

Equality for different accusations and different circumstances? I'm having a hard time understanding the logic on this one... If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick AFTER being accused of rape a year earlier that is your opinion but... if the situations were reversed I'm pretty sure you would also flip your logic.

When the headlines read "Steeler's QB, Big Ben accused of a second sexual assault" it put Ben on a different level.

well ben was never charged with anything. if the "case" had any weight at all he would of been screwed and prosacuted to the fullest extent. if the situations were reversed i would not flip my logic because i hate when people think like that. vince young beat up a guy. i saw it on espn. funny i didnt see any damning evidence on tape in regards to ben. fighting in a strip club is much worse imo. ben didnt seek out any false accusations. vince young obviously was looking to fight. if he wasnt he wouldnt of been fighting. also second sexual assault is garbage because the mcnutty situation was an obvious shake down.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 02:00 PM
How favorable was Holmes treated by Goodell and the Steelers?

Arrested in 2006: No NFL suspension. Goodell wasn't the Commish

Arrested again in 2006: No NFL suspension. Goodell wasn't the Commish

Arrested again in 2008: No NFL suspension. Steelers suspend him one game. Substance abuse warning, no one is ever suspended for their first offense

Accused in civil suit: No NFL suspension. Why would he get suspended for this? I can't eve find a record of this happening in 2008

Failed second drug test: By rule, 4 game suspension, Steelers finally trade him. By rule... you act like his first drug offense was ignored, it was.

I'd say compared to Ben? Holmes has been treated like a King by both Goodell and the Steelers.

Wouldn't you agree?

Nope, not at all.... Goodell was implemented in September 1st of 2006 (psss... Dan Rooney headed the search committee...

Holmes had a drug infraction and by rule.. it's a warning and the second one gets a suspension. There was no favorable treatment.

If Ben was wronged why didn't he or the players union fight it? Oh yeah.. he is white. The union only works in the interest of blacks right? The Steelers and Goodell hate Ben too...

Crash
06-26-2010, 02:12 PM
If Ben was wronged why didn't he or the players union fight it?

Ben refused NFLPA representation.

You also don't know what the Rooney's told Ben. They may have said "Look, you need help, fight this and we let you go".

When Goodell was appointed commish in 2006 is irrelvant. The 2008 arrest once again showed a "pattern of behavior" with Holmes.

He had three arrests and a failed drug test. He also admitted to Pittsburgh police he used drugs.

The Steelers kept him anyway.

If that's being treated unfairly? You must have been smoking with Holmes in the Hill.

Sugar
06-26-2010, 02:56 PM
If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick


20 years old is not "underage" to indulge in sexual activities.

I didn't say she was a minor :roll:

Um, "underage" only counts if you were talking about the drinking where you have to be 21. By law, she's not underage for sexual activity the moment she turned 18. She'd been "of age" for at least two full years.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 03:52 PM
If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick


20 years old is not "underage" to indulge in sexual activities.

I didn't say she was a minor :roll:

Um, "underage" only counts if you were talking about the drinking where you have to be 21. By law, she's not underage for sexual activity the moment she turned 18. She'd been "of age" for at least two full years.

why would I be talking about anything else? She is 20.. we all know she is 20 and the underage drinking was cited as a major problem...

damn guys... it's like you are dumbing yourselves down :cry:

what else would I be talking about? Like I just wrote.. I didn't say she was a minor (under the legal age for sexual activity)

Sugar
06-26-2010, 04:00 PM
If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick


20 years old is not "underage" to indulge in sexual activities.

I didn't say she was a minor :roll:

Um, "underage" only counts if you were talking about the drinking where you have to be 21. By law, she's not underage for sexual activity the moment she turned 18. She'd been "of age" for at least two full years.

why would I be talking about anything else? She is 20.. we all know she is 20 and the underage drinking was cited as a major problem...

damn guys... it's like you are dumbing yourselves down :cry:

what else would I be talking about? Like I just wrote.. I didn't say she was a minor (under the legal age for sexual activity)

Um, I was only quoting the original post where it specifically mentions "public sexual activities with an underage chick." It doesn't say anything drinking in the quote, but it does mention sexual activities. Am I "dumbing myself down" by clarifying based on the original quote? :roll:

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 04:24 PM
I didn't say she was a minor :roll:

Um, "underage" only counts if you were talking about the drinking where you have to be 21. By law, she's not underage for sexual activity the moment she turned 18. She'd been "of age" for at least two full years.

why would I be talking about anything else? She is 20.. we all know she is 20 and the underage drinking was cited as a major problem...

damn guys... it's like you are dumbing yourselves down :cry:

what else would I be talking about? Like I just wrote.. I didn't say she was a minor (under the legal age for sexual activity)

Um, I was only quoting the original post where it specifically mentions "public sexual activities with an underage chick." It doesn't say anything drinking in the quote, but it does mention sexual activities. Am I "dumbing myself down" by clarifying based on the original quote? :roll:

Yes. You are dumbing yourself down.

You know her age, you know she was drinking "underage" and had sexual activity... and you quoted me after I clearly responded I didn't say she was a minor...

Yes... you dumbed yourself down. Get up. :Cheers

Sugar
06-26-2010, 10:31 PM
I didn't say she was a minor :roll:

Um, "underage" only counts if you were talking about the drinking where you have to be 21. By law, she's not underage for sexual activity the moment she turned 18. She'd been "of age" for at least two full years.

why would I be talking about anything else? She is 20.. we all know she is 20 and the underage drinking was cited as a major problem...

damn guys... it's like you are dumbing yourselves down :cry:

what else would I be talking about? Like I just wrote.. I didn't say she was a minor (under the legal age for sexual activity)

Um, I was only quoting the original post where it specifically mentions "public sexual activities with an underage chick." It doesn't say anything drinking in the quote, but it does mention sexual activities. Am I "dumbing myself down" by clarifying based on the original quote? :roll:

Yes. You are dumbing yourself down.

You know her age, you know she was drinking "underage" and had sexual activity... and you quoted me after I clearly responded I didn't say she was a minor...

Yes... you dumbed yourself down. Get up. :Cheers

Dude- you said that she was underage for sexual activities, not drinking. I quoted YOU!!! The problem is that she WAS NOT "underage" for sexual activities.

feltdizz
06-27-2010, 10:39 AM
She was 20.. you know it, I know, everyone knows it. Underage refers to drinking. I clarified it with the statement "I didn't say sex with a minor"

Get up dude...

Captain Lemming
06-27-2010, 01:34 PM
It's not about guilt, it's about player conduct and damaging the NFL brand.

Vincent Jackson is one of the premier WR's in this league, he also has three convictions since 2006, including TWO for DUI. And he hasn't been suspended.

So don't talk to me about "player conduct and damaging the NFL brand" as long as black, and the twice convicted of DUI Vincent Jackson plays, and the white, uncharged Ben sits.

Dizz,

Crash is absolutely right. If Bens suspension werent driven by race, why are so many other white players victims of Goodells vendetta against Caucasian players?

If it were just Ben, sure you could argue a number of motivations. But in view of the pattern and the WAVE of unjust suspensions, Goodells self hating war to rid the NFL of white players is obvious. :lol:

Of course "I" personally cant name specific players. But Crash is a virtual machine of knowledge, and can list the huge number of unjustly suspended players at a moments notice. :wink:

Captain Lemming
06-27-2010, 02:08 PM
I have another theory. Crash is right. It IS about RACE. But in a different way.

Ben hangs out with black guys too much. Goodell is making a statement about Ben's association.
White players will be hit hard only if they get into trouble while hanging out with black guys.

Closet klanner, Goodell dont tolerate no race mixin.

How do I know this? No white player has been punished so severely as Ben has been.

(OK I know this makes no sense but it is the only way I can both blame race and explain why it only applies to Ben.) :lol:

ter1230_4
06-28-2010, 03:00 AM
Laugh as much as you want Captain Lemming, but Crash is right that race played a part in the disparate treatment that Roethliberger has been subjected to. I'm not going to go back and dig up the columns, but opinions were expressed that blacks were watching closely to see whether he would be subjected to discipline, and those opinions were particularly strong on message boards. I don't think that race was one of the three strongest reasons that Roethlisberger is the only NFL player to be suspended without ever having been arrested, but it was certainly a factor in the mob mentality that lead Goodell the POS to suspend Roethlisberger.

Feltdizz, since you think I'm wasting megabytes by comparing Big Ben to the way that a baseball player has been treated under similar circumstances, it has been reported on ESPN that despite having pleaded guilty to assault the NFL has decided that Braylon Edwards will not be suspended. Your mission, should you accept it, is to cogently explain why an NFL player who has never been arrested is suspended for 4-6 games while anorher NFL player who has been convicted of assault is not suspended for any games.

hawaiiansteel
06-28-2010, 03:10 AM
Laugh as much as you want Captain Lemming, but Crash is right that race played a part in the disparate treatment that Roethliberger has been subjected to. I'm not going to go back and dig up the columns, but opinions were expressed that blacks were watching closely to see whether he would be subjected to discipline, and those opinions were particularly strong on message boards. I don't think that race was one of the three strongest reasons that Roethlisberger is the only NFL player to be suspended without ever having been arrested, but it was certainly a factor in the mob mentality that lead Goodell the POS to suspend Roethlisberger.

Feltdizz, since you think I'm wasting megabytes by comparing Big Ben to the way that a baseball player has been treated under similar circumstances, it has been reported on ESPN that despite having pleaded guilty to assault the NFL has decided that Braylon Edwards will not be suspended. Your mission, should you accept it, is to cogently explain why an NFL player who has never been arrested is suspended for 4-6 games while anorher NFL player who has been convicted of assault is not suspended for any games.



don't you know that by Roger God-ell's way of thinking that two false accusations which don't even result in charges let alone convictions are six games worse than an actual conviction? :wft

Captain Lemming
06-28-2010, 04:14 AM
Laugh as much as you want Captain Lemming, but Crash is right that race played a part in the disparate treatment that Roethliberger has been subjected to. I'm not going to go back and dig up the columns, but opinions were expressed that blacks were watching closely to see whether he would be subjected to discipline, and those opinions were particularly strong on message boards. I don't think that race was one of the three strongest reasons that Roethlisberger is the only NFL player to be suspended without ever having been arrested, but it was certainly a factor in the mob mentality that lead Goodell the POS to suspend Roethlisberger.

I never denied that certain members of the media acted as Crash said they did. They did make stupid comment comparing Ben to "convicted" players of color. My point is that who cares what they said. The same people also demanded the Rooneys give Ben the boot because Santonio got tossed.

I have read commentary from media OF ALL RACES, basically convicting Ben because he was accused more than once. A large part of the population think he is a rapist as a result which is a much bigger deal than race.

Your comment imply that Goodell relutanly gave in to pressure.

Goodell WANTS to make an example out of this high profile athlete, and Rooney basically said go for it.

Goddell can make an example of Ben with NO team resistance.

Like I told Crash, until there is a pattern with multiple white people being suspended, you cannot just assume it is about race.

Crash
06-28-2010, 04:39 AM
The same people also demanded the Rooneys give Ben the boot because Santonio got tossed.

And that just shows their ignorance even more. I would bet MOST of the NON-Pittsburgh based media and fans who said that had no idea that Holmes had been arrested three times and failed one drug test and the Steelers still kept him.

Only after being investigated for another incident and failing another drug test was Holmes shown the door.

People want Ben treated like Holmes? Fine.

Then they need to stop calling for the Rooney's to trade him.

By all means, give the UNCHARGED NEVER ARRESTED BEN the same leeway Holmes got for four years.

grotonsteel
06-28-2010, 07:47 AM
"If you think guys fighting is worse than public sexual activities with an underage chick AFTER being accused of rape a year earlier that is your opinion"


So you think beating people in a strip club is less worse than a sl*t accusing Big Ben of sexual activity? :roll: I guess in your book Pac Man Jones is a better man than Big Ben.

Big Ben was not even charged. Police did not find enough DNA to prosecute Big Ben. He was accused of some sexual activity by a DTF drunk girl. Being accused does not mean guilty.

grotonsteel
06-28-2010, 07:56 AM
Laugh as much as you want Captain Lemming, but Crash is right that race played a part in the disparate treatment that Roethliberger has been subjected to. I'm not going to go back and dig up the columns, but opinions were expressed that blacks were watching closely to see whether he would be subjected to discipline, and those opinions were particularly strong on message boards. I don't think that race was one of the three strongest reasons that Roethlisberger is the only NFL player to be suspended without ever having been arrested, but it was certainly a factor in the mob mentality that lead Goodell the POS to suspend Roethlisberger.

Feltdizz, since you think I'm wasting megabytes by comparing Big Ben to the way that a baseball player has been treated under similar circumstances, it has been reported on ESPN that despite having pleaded guilty to assault the NFL has decided that Braylon Edwards will not be suspended. Your mission, should you accept it, is to cogently explain why an NFL player who has never been arrested is suspended for 4-6 games while anorher NFL player who has been convicted of assault is not suspended for any games.



don't you know that by Roger God-ell's way of thinking that two false accusations which don't even result in charges let alone convictions are six games worse than an actual conviction? :wft


Roger Goodell lost all my faith the way he handled the Cheatroits. How can anyone burn the evidence?? The special treatment he gives to Krafts, Al Davis or Jerry Jones of the league is really questionable. I think he needs to suck theses organization's d*&K for getting CBA done IMO.

Since Rooneys recommended Goodell, the commish does not give a damn about Rooneys.

grotonsteel
06-28-2010, 07:59 AM
Dude- you said that she was underage for sexual activities, not drinking. I quoted YOU!!! The problem is that she WAS NOT "underage" for sexual activities.

Well that's what I thought initially.

stlrz d
06-28-2010, 08:09 AM
[quote="ter1230_4":39cazj8t]Laugh as much as you want Captain Lemming, but Crash is right that race played a part in the disparate treatment that Roethliberger has been subjected to. I'm not going to go back and dig up the columns, but opinions were expressed that blacks were watching closely to see whether he would be subjected to discipline, and those opinions were particularly strong on message boards. I don't think that race was one of the three strongest reasons that Roethlisberger is the only NFL player to be suspended without ever having been arrested, but it was certainly a factor in the mob mentality that lead Goodell the POS to suspend Roethlisberger.

I never denied that certain members of the media acted as Crash said they did. They did make stupid comment comparing Ben to "convicted" players of color. My point is that who cares what they said. The same people also demanded the Rooneys give Ben the boot because Santonio got tossed.

I have read commentary from media OF ALL RACES, basically convicting Ben because he was accused more than once. A large part of the population think he is a rapist as a result which is a much bigger deal than race.

Your comment imply that Goodell relutanly gave in to pressure.

Goodell WANTS to make an example out of this high profile athlete, and Rooney basically said go for it.

Goddell can make an example of Ben with NO team resistance.

Like I told Crash, until there is a pattern with multiple white people being suspended, you cannot just assume it is about race.[/quote:39cazj8t]

When you get your trophy fish you can cull the others. ;)