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SteelCrazy
06-22-2010, 12:11 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger seems to be doing everything he can to comply with terms of the discipline handed down by National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell. It's in his and the Steelers' best interests that he do so.
But despite Roethlisberger's efforts to effect a turnaround regarding his conduct and his life in general, it would do professional football -- indeed, all professional sports -- a disservice if the quarterback's six-game start-of-season suspension were reduced to four games.

The message must be firmly planted in professional sports that improper conduct will be dealt with firmly and without leniency. Reducing Roethlisberger's suspension would send the wrong message.

If he wants to continue as a Pittsburgh Steeler or elsewhere in the league, Roethlisberger must turn his life around -- and make sure it will stay that way.

As for other players in the league, they must know that the league isn't going to be forgiving and isn't going to back off from punishment just because a player expresses sorrow for some improper conduct or action -- or for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

They must know that improper conduct risks jeopardizing their career -- or at least a part of it -- and that there will be significant playing and financial consequences tied to their improper conduct.

A six-game suspension is not too much for Roethlisberger to endure, considering the sexual assault allegations that were leveled against him and what audio and video clips from an investigation in Georgia revealed.
Roethlisberger never should have allowed himself to get caught up in such a situation, which involved a 20-year-old college student, especially since he already was targeted in a sexual-assault lawsuit filed in Nevada.

He embarrassed himself, his family, the Steelers and the NFL. He should have to pay a price that will discourage him from such unacceptable conduct.

Trying to explain how he ended up in his current situation, Roethlisberger told KDKA-TV the other day: "Big Ben just kept building up. It ended up coming off the field. It kept taking over. Superman kept taking over Clark Kent and you just never saw who Ben Roethlisberger was any more.

"At the time, I didn't see it. I was gaining everything, but I was losing a lot of who I was raised to be. It got so overwhelming, it consumed me."

It was a bad comparison. At no time did Superman -- or Clark Kent -- engage in the kind of boorish, disrespectful behavior that became synonymous with Roethlisberger.

Roethlisberger's suspension should not be reduced to four games in response to his contrition and for otherwise complying with terms of the discipline that the league and Goodell have meted out. Ordering the six-game suspension to stand will be good for the league in the long run.

It also would serve as a good example of how other professional sports should deal with athletes whose conduct threatens to undermine them.

If the Steelers lose their first six games due in part to Roethlisberger's absence, so be it. It's better to be 0-6 and have to work harder to salvage a season than to be 6-0 while wondering when the next player is going to get into trouble and erode what the team has worked so hard to achieve.

Steelers fans, while being hopeful about Roethlisberger and the team's future, should nonetheless be cautious about heaping forgiveness and adulation on Roethlisberger too soon.

-- Butler Eagle

http://www.yorkdispatch.com/viewpoints/ci_15349709
.................................................. .................................................. .................

This guy is insane! There is a reason Goodell gave Ben a six game suspension with the possibility of reducing it to four with good behavior. It's to see if Ben is complying with the terms of the suspension , to make sure he is on the right path.

siss
06-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Oh shut up!
Give it a rest...even criminals get off for good behavior. The man has not been arrested or charged with anything. He was suspended based on media outcry in the first place. He has done everything asked of him. Piling on is doing no one a favor. Let it go...just let it go!

RuthlessBurgher
06-22-2010, 12:21 PM
It was a bad comparison. At no time did Superman -- or Clark Kent -- engage in the kind of boorish, disrespectful behavior that became synonymous with Roethlisberger.


Apparently this putz never saw Superman III (the one with Richard Pryor in it).

http://www.antoniogenna.net/smallville/superman/3_evilsuperman1.jpghttp://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/1983_superman_iii.jpg

http://www.webomatica.com/wordpress/images/movies/superman-3.jpghttp://trevmurphy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Evil_Superman.jpg

cruzer8
06-22-2010, 12:25 PM
We shouldn't be giving these crap articles any attention anymore. If we don't pay attention to them they will eventually go away.

siss
06-22-2010, 12:28 PM
We shouldn't be giving these crap articles any attention anymore. If we don't pay attention to them they will eventually go away.
Lets put a moratorium on all stupid articles that pile on the QB.

Djfan
06-22-2010, 12:28 PM
We shouldn't be giving these crap articles any attention anymore. If we don't pay attention to them they will eventually go away.

Well said.

Ghost
06-22-2010, 12:28 PM
allegations - how the hell is this worth 6 games?

flippy
06-22-2010, 01:31 PM
allegations - how the hell is this worth 6 games?

I allege Tom Brady is a douche for knocking up 2 girls at the same time.

I allege Ray Lewis' jazz hands make me nervous.

I allege the Browns are a joke for an NFL team.

I allege everyone that's not with us is against us.

6 games for everybody!!!!!!!

without parole....

Steelers>NFL
06-22-2010, 01:48 PM
This is the newspaper from my town. Most sports writers in this paper are Ratbird fans.
York is only 50 miles from Baltimoron. And it is in the state of Pennsylvania. Yet you would
think York was in Maryland.
Ignore this article.

SteelCrazy
06-22-2010, 01:54 PM
The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger

[This post is now updated to include the Post Gazette's "botched investigation" story, which is slanted both against Roethlisberger and the truth.]

When the media received the investigation file in the Ben Roethlisberger case, it acted irresponsibly. It selectively reported allegations for which no probable cause to arrest existed. It gave the public a skewed understanding of the facts. There are plenty reasons to criticize Roethlisberger, but not for "rape." Here are the documented facts:

CHRONOLOGY:

1. The DA indicated that both parties were exchanging sexual comments toward each other (that he would not repeat in public, because of their graphic nature). He said, "it was a two-way street ... -- him to her, her to him -- [it was] of a sexual nature." (DA press conference, PART-4, at 7:35, http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apBOClZNRzY]).

2. The accuser and her sorority sisters were wearing stickers that "had 'DTF' written on the bottom of the name tag ... [which] stood for 'down to ****.'" (See Page 4 of 6 of police report, exhibit 16. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ger15.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger15.html))

3. The accuser also said to Willie Colon, "You know my nickname?" -- and then answered by saying "DTF." When Colon asked what that meant, the accuser replied , "Down to ****." (See Colon's police statement here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... llie2.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0416103willie2.html))

4. The accuser "repeatedly attempted to get Roethlisberger's attention, including pinching him" ... and pestering Willie Colon to talk to Ben for them. (See Colon's police statement: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... llie2.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0416103willie2.html))

5. The accuser was heavily intoxicated. [numerous sources].

6. The accuser was led down a hall toward a bathroom. (DA News Conference, PART-1, at 3:10. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHs6C7ajzg]).

7. There was a stool outside the bathroom. The club manager, Duncan, told police that he saw "a young lady sitting outside of the stool, talking to Ben." (Duncan's Statement is quoted by CNN here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/roe ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/roethlisberger.incident/index.html))

8. The accuser was sitting on the stool talking with Ben for a little while. Duncan says, "... at last glance the [accuser] was still sitting outside the bathroom talking to Ben. That was the last I noticed of the situation." (Duncan's Statement is quoted by CNN here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/roe ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/roethlisberger.incident/index.html))

9. The bathroom had cramped quarters -- less than 5 foot wide single-commode bathroom. (DA News Conference, PART-1 http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHs6C7ajzg])

10. According to a police statement: "Roethlisberger explained to Aurila that nothing had happened and that Roethlisberger was in the back with a girl and they were "messing around." Roethlsberger then explained that the girl slipped and he helped her up and then came back out. Aurila stated that he took "messing around" to mean" kissing, whatever. ... Roethlisberger indicated to Aurila that the girl had slipped and that he had helped her up and once Roethlisberger had helped her up he told the girl that they were not going to continue. ... During the conversation, Aurila described Roethlisberger's demeanor as angry and shocked that this [the accusation] was happening." (Police report, pg. 5 of 7, http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... ger19.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger19.html))

11. The accuser had a "superficial laceration" in the genital area, described by DA [and medical authorities] as consistent with having sex. (Or slipping while having it?). (DA press conference, PART-1 at 3:50. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHs6C7ajzg]).

12. THE SORORITY SISTERS STARTED THE INITIAL COMMOTION. They felt the accuser was too drunk to be fraternizing with Roethlisberger. So they acted based upon that judgment. The facts are:

(A) The sorority sisters complained to the club manager that Ben and accuser were together in the locked bathroom. (citation forthcoming)

(B) The sorority sisters are the ones who complained to police and said it was a "rape." From the DA conference: "The Sorority Sisters were doing the talking [making the accusation]." (See DA press conference, PART-2, starts 2:42 and key part at about 3:10 and 4:00: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g]) (See also, DA interview, PART-3, 10:20 http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PsdE_KudoY]).

(C) The officer at the scene was perturbed by the fact that the sisters were doing the talking. Post-Gazette: "The victim's friends got on Blash's Nerves because he kept asking them were they back there with her, and they said no. The victim's friends were trying to tell what was going on more than the victim was, and the victim could not answer Blash's questions."

13. THE ACCUSER HERSELF WAS UNCERTAIN ABOUT THE MATTER. When the officer on the spot said "I need to talk to the alleged victim, not [the sorority sisters]," he asked the accuser if Roethlisberger had raped her. She said:

(A). "No." (DA news conference; PART 2, starts 2:42, key point: about 4:10: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g])

(B) When asked if the two had sex, she said "well, I'm not sure." (DA interview, PART 2, starts 2:42, key point: about 4:20: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g]).


(Blash also said she seemed inebriated, incoherent, "nonchalant," and at times seemed to to want to tell someone that "y'all did whatever.")

[The above was Officer Blash's account when interviewed by a special officer on March 15th.. His earlier account when interviewed by a special officer on March 5th, one day after the incident, is quoted below. He says that: (a) Roethlisberger didn’t force himself on her, but kept asking; (b) she said she wasn’t raped, but kept saying “I don’t know if we should be doing this here.” See below:]


(C) “While Mr. Blash wasn't around, Officer Lopez interviewed the woman in a squad room at the station. … She told him something that officers found perplexing: the woman claimed that she and the 6-foot-5 Mr. Roethlisberger had sex while she was sitting on the toilet. He also said that, during the entire episode -- which the accuser alleged took 3 minutes (see below) -- that she never said "no." (She never even said, "I was scared to say no" or "I wanted to tell him to stop"). The quote is as follows:


(D) According to Officer Davidson, the accuser said back at the station house that "I don't think this is ok," (indicating equivocation) and "I should not have done this," (indicating regret after the fact). The officer's statement is below:


(E) The accuser gave a statement that night to police that said, "They met us at the Brick and called us a 'tease.' .... His body guards took him back to the rooms in 1 bathroom. I said, 'I don't know if this is a good idea,' and he said, "it's ok.' He had sex with me ... ." (See Police report: March 4th. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... rger3.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger3.html))

(F) At the hospital that night, she said "a boy kinda raped me." (DA press conference, PART-2 at 6:00. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g]).

13. THE ACCUSER'S NEXT-DAY STATEMENT OFFERED A CHANGED STORY. The next day, this is what the accuser said:

(A). "His bodyguard came and took my arm and said come with me, he escorted me into a side door/hallway, and sat me on a stool. He left and Ben came back with his penis out of his pants. I told him it wasn't OK, no, we don't need to do this and I proceeded to get up and try to leave. I went to the first door I saw, which happened to be a bathroom. He followed me into the bathroom and shut the door behind him. I still said no, this is not OK, and he then had sex with me. He said it was OK. He then left without saying anything." (See DA press conference, PART-2 5:25. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRGdYizw7g]).(See also, CNN account of accuser's statement: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/roe ... /?hpt=Sbin (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/16/roethlisberger.incident/?hpt=Sbin)).

[Note several things. 1. This latest version of events suggested that Ben is commencing activities OUTSIDE the bathroom. This contradicts the eyewitness claims that: (a) she was seen talking with Ben at the stool outside the bathroom for a period of time (See bar manager's statement); and (b) that no evidence of sex outside the bathroom exists. No one in the VIP area of any entourage or any body guard saw anything like that. (See: DA CONFERENCE, PART-3, starting at 8:30. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PsdE_KudoY]).
Finally, note that this new version of events selectively fixes the accuser's earlier statements. It fixes the rape-denial and equivocation she expressed about the encounter while retaining other things as accurate (e.g., "he said it was okay."). In other words, what helps her is retained, and what doesn't is not.

14. THE ACCUSER BACKED OFF SOON AFTERWARD. Soon after giving the next-day statement, the accuser began frustrating police. She did the following:

(A) From the Post Gazette: The Georgia Bureau of Investigation had trouble contacting "both the accuser and her lawyer, who did not return numerous calls from the agency" ... "Special Agent Monica Ling, the lead investigator, tried to reach the accuser 'numerous times' over the weekend of the alleged assault without success. Lee Parks, the woman's lawyer, finally called on the evening of March 7. Agent Ling said she wanted to take swabs from inside the woman's cheeks. Agent Ling reported having trouble reaching Mr. Parks the next week," and was eventually told the accuser could not help at this time.

(B) On March 17th, through her attorney's letter, the accuser says she doesn't want to go forward with it.

(C) When investigators had met with the woman, they were told unequivocally that the accuser did not want to go forward with the case. (soruce: Post Gazette)

[One should note that the vast majority of civil plaintiffs would want criminal cases going on concurrently. Any lawyer will tell you that a civil plaintiff is helped by a criminal case going first. One must assume that the accuser's reluctance here indicates one of two things: (a) the civil matter was already on a quick course of settlement; or (b) depositions and other matters may have rendered the next-day's position problematic. It is true that media frenzy and privacy are good reasons not to pursue things. But is this true if you have been wronged and can receive a major damage award? Or is it true if you have a drunken encounter and regret it? How many people get raped by millionaires and don't want to pursue even a civil case? And how many want to pursue one without pursuing a criminal case (the former helps the latter)?].

13. Both the DA and the police believe not only that there was not enough proof to win their case, but that THERE WAS NOT EVEN PROBABLE CAUSE TO ARREST. Think about that. Law enforcement officials think that the sorority-girls version of events isn't even worthy of an arrest. (See DA News Conference, PART-1 12:00. http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/index.html [also at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liHs6C7ajzg]).

Conclusion

Will anyone out there listen? People have every right to be disgusted with Roethlisberger for things like buying shots for girls, behaving like a "meathead," wanting a gigolo lifestyle and engaging in drunken, callous and risky encounters with strangers. But they DON'T have ANY right to be disgusted with body guards dragging people back to rooms, with sex against a person's will, with "she reported it quickly," and that, "he exposed himself and she ran away, accidentally to a bathroom."

The press is smearing Roethlisberger. Can we please make sure that, if we abuse him, it is for the FACTUAL THINGS and not a public lynching?

Some people have argued that drunken sex is, by definition, "rape." This isn't true. This confuses "consent" in law with "capacity." Consent is merely an act of volition (will); it doesn't require an intelligent choice. Having a drunken escapade that you later regret doesn't mean that you "didn't consent." If drunken sex was outlawed, both parties to the escapade could claim to be "raped," because any of the touchings that either person performed could be said to be "not consented to" (because of alcohol). So the issue is not that drunk people are forbidden from having sex; the issue is whether one of the drunken parties is being forced to have it, against his or her wishes AT THAT TIME.

Also, we can't be too patriarchal here. We can't apply what academics call a "gender construction." You have two people here being sexual with each other throughout the night and both are impairing their judgments with alcohol. The night ends with an encounter that appears to have been ambiguous and was regretted. That's what a prudent look at the facts shows. And it is perfectly permissible to criticize either Roethlisberger or anyone else for having an ambiguous encounter with a stranger when both he and the stranger were suffering from impaired judgments after a night of sexual flirting. But what is NOT okay is to lynch Roethlisberger and call him a "rapist," when the facts supporting that allegation are not even worthy enough for an accusation under the law (probable cause).

And what may be worse is the media showing only the accuser's day-after (second) accusation, and not its surrounding difficulties. I wonder how many in America know right now that the accusation began with sorority sisters who objected to a drunken encounter, not with the accuser herself? Or that, even in the hospital, the accuser could not say the matter was clearly against her wishes at the time. How many today on the A.M. talk radio take the accuser's second-day version as "the accusation" rather than as a significant derogation of what all the evidence that night suggested?

Here's my point. I have no problem with criticizing Roethlisberger for numerous things. I have no problem if the league goes after him just for having drunken, callous and reckless encounters with strangers. My only concern is that they go after him on the FACTS -- not on this yellow journalism stuff. Stop the witch hunt, please.


Regards and thanks.

Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq.

http://ludwig.squarespace.com/politics- ... erger.html (http://ludwig.squarespace.com/politics-journal/2010/4/15/the-media-lynching-of-ben-roethlisberger.html)

hawaiiansteel
06-22-2010, 03:28 PM
allegations - how the hell is this worth 6 games?



I allege Ray Lewis' jazz hands make me nervous.

6 games for everybody!!!!!!!

without parole....


Ben never had any photos like these, yet Ben gets 6 games and Ray-Ray doesn't? :wft

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wDPkBvKoRJs/SxATXJk3agI/AAAAAAAAAHE/opItbsoBDWc/s1600/RayLewisorangejumpsuit.jpghttp://www.dabeatshop.com/Celeb%20Mugshots/ray_lewis.jpg

Crash
06-22-2010, 03:38 PM
The Great Ray Lewis!

ikestops85
06-22-2010, 03:56 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

RuthlessBurgher
06-22-2010, 04:07 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

"Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq."

Yeah, doctors and lawyers are good for something!

(j/k SMG and Phillyesq) :P

SteelCrazy
06-22-2010, 04:22 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

I think so too........Too bad it is not the norm

kiwi_sarah
06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

I think so too........Too bad it is not the norm

Was a good read, thanks Dude.

That one point only....Ben's 6'5". Even if she were 6' (and she's not right?) that kind of height discrepancy makes bathroom sex pretty awkward (not speaking from experience lol)

The whole "sex on the toilet" thing....I HAD thought, ok, maybe....IF Ben was on his knees, and she was kinda perched on the edge of the toilet while rid....well, you get the drift. But...
a) that's not a position you can maintain against someone's will (again, not from experience lol)
b) I didn't really think Ben would get on his knees for any chick (bada bing)

Hearing her account of it though, I mean, just ridiculous, shady, BS. Was nice to read a story focusing on "the other side".

ikestops85
06-22-2010, 05:11 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

I think so too........Too bad it is not the norm

Was a good read, thanks Dude.

That one point only....Ben's 6'5". Even if she were 6' (and she's not right?) that kind of height discrepancy makes bathroom sex pretty awkward (not speaking from experience lol)

The whole "sex on the toilet" thing....I HAD thought, ok, maybe....IF Ben was on his knees, and she was kinda perched on the edge of the toilet while rid....well, you get the drift. But...
a) that's not a position you can maintain against someone's will (again, not from experience lol)
b) I didn't really think Ben would get on his knees for any chick (bada bing)

Hearing her account of it though, I mean, just ridiculous, shady, BS. Was nice to read a story focusing on "the other side".

I watched her 'Day After' interview when she said she didn't remember the position she was in during the alleged rape. She didn't even seem sure if sex had occurred. At least that was the impression I got from the conversation. It certainly was easy to see why charges were not pursued.

Flasteel
06-22-2010, 05:16 PM
It was a bad comparison. At no time did Superman -- or Clark Kent -- engage in the kind of boorish, disrespectful behavior that became synonymous with Roethlisberger.


Apparently this putz never saw Superman III (the one with Richard Pryor in it).

http://www.antoniogenna.net/smallville/superman/3_evilsuperman1.jpghttp://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/1983_superman_iii.jpg

http://www.webomatica.com/wordpress/images/movies/superman-3.jpghttp://trevmurphy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Evil_Superman.jpg

BWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAA :lol: :lol: :lol:

That

Was

Awesome!


Oh yeah. The Article? A classic example of media douchebaggery.

cruzer8
06-22-2010, 07:03 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

I think so too........Too bad it is not the norm

Was a good read, thanks Dude.

That one point only....Ben's 6'5". Even if she were 6' (and she's not right?) that kind of height discrepancy makes bathroom sex pretty awkward (not speaking from experience lol)

The whole "sex on the toilet" thing....I HAD thought, ok, maybe....IF Ben was on his knees, and she was kinda perched on the edge of the toilet while rid....well, you get the drift. But...
a) that's not a position you can maintain against someone's will (again, not from experience lol)
b) I didn't really think Ben would get on his knees for any chick (bada bing)

Hearing her account of it though, I mean, just ridiculous, shady, BS. Was nice to read a story focusing on "the other side".

I watched her 'Day After' interview when she said she didn't remember the position she was in during the alleged rape. She didn't even seem sure if sex had occurred. At least that was the impression I got from the conversation. It certainly was easy to see why charges were not pursued.

In one of her interviews she said she was seated normally with her back against the tank when penetration took place. :shock:

So totally BS.

kiwi_sarah
06-22-2010, 07:22 PM
SteelCrazy, that story, "The Media Lynching of Ben Roethlisberger", that you posted was one of the best articles I have read on the subject. Kudos for finding and posting.

I think so too........Too bad it is not the norm

Was a good read, thanks Dude.

That one point only....Ben's 6'5". Even if she were 6' (and she's not right?) that kind of height discrepancy makes bathroom sex pretty awkward (not speaking from experience lol)

The whole "sex on the toilet" thing....I HAD thought, ok, maybe....IF Ben was on his knees, and she was kinda perched on the edge of the toilet while rid....well, you get the drift. But...
a) that's not a position you can maintain against someone's will (again, not from experience lol)
b) I didn't really think Ben would get on his knees for any chick (bada bing)

Hearing her account of it though, I mean, just ridiculous, shady, BS. Was nice to read a story focusing on "the other side".

I watched her 'Day After' interview when she said she didn't remember the position she was in during the alleged rape. She didn't even seem sure if sex had occurred. At least that was the impression I got from the conversation. It certainly was easy to see why charges were not pursued.

In one of her interviews she said she was seated normally with her back against the tank when penetration took place. :shock:

So totally BS.

In that case...she needs an IQ test, because I don't think she knows the difference between....ugh, nevermind, too gross lol

flippy
06-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Lil Ben could be crooked. Or just really long.

Or maybe there was some lean.

Either way, it's really gross being right above a toilet in that disgusting bathroom. I'm disgusted by my QBs lack of taste no matter what went down.

stlrz d
06-22-2010, 11:39 PM
Lil Ben could be crooked. Or just really long.

Or maybe there was some lean.

Either way, it's really gross being right above a toilet in that disgusting bathroom. I'm disgusted by my QBs lack of taste no matter what went down.

What if nothing went down?

siss
06-23-2010, 12:03 AM
He still should not have been in there.

BURGH86STEEL
06-23-2010, 06:55 AM
4 games should serve its purpose. If Ben does not wake up after everything that's happened, he never will.

BURGH86STEEL
06-23-2010, 06:57 AM
He still should not have been in there.

This is pretty much where it starts and ends for me. Ben should not had put himself in that situation with a drunk woman he just met that night.

flippy
06-23-2010, 07:05 AM
Lil Ben could be crooked. Or just really long.

Or maybe there was some lean.

Either way, it's really gross being right above a toilet in that disgusting bathroom. I'm disgusted by my QBs lack of taste no matter what went down.

What if nothing went down?

You're probably right. Ben never even went out that night. And never even accidentally walked into that bathroom when that girl was in there.

But we saw pics, so something happened. Here' probably the real story.

Ben was drinking so much he had to pee like a racehorse. So he's running to the bathroom and unzipping his fly on the way there cause he has to go bad. Some drunk girl experiences the same urge just before Ben. She asks where the bathroom is and a security guard of Ben's leads her down the hallway in that direction doing everything short of helping her into the bathroom.

She stumbles in her own drunkeness only to see Ben running down the hall to on his way to the bathroom. A race ensues and the girl has the lead. She knows she has to be fast because Ben has it out by the time she see him and he's ready to go from one shot too many. She miraculously beats him and squats just as Ben bursts through the door thinking oh no. Ben tries to get around her to go and accidentally slips and falls into her. Apparently someone peed on the floor and no one has cleaned the VIP bathroom recently. The club really should have carpets around the toilets to catch the drips. Especially for the VIPs.

stlrz d
06-23-2010, 08:01 AM
He still should not have been in there.

He still should not have been in where?

The only person putting him in the bathroom is the accuser.

So what if this is actually what took place:

Ben & the accuser made out in the hallway outside of the bathroom, Ben realized how obliterated she was and stopped...and the rest is all made up by the SoHos?

I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm saying "what if?"

Would you all still feel the same way? Would there still be that holier than thou "he should have never gone out to that bar in the first place" attitude?

And if so, why? Why isn't the man allowed to go out with friends to celebrate his birthday? Because he's the QB for "your" team?

Bull$hit.

I'm certain that every single person maintaining that attitude has some type of skeleton hidden safely away in a closet no one will ever get a look into. It's pretty easy to talk about someone else's business when no one can see your own, no matter how bad it may be. That's what hypocrites do. Hypocrites say things like, "Sure I've done some dumb things but I'm not a $100 million QB, blah blah blah".

The smart thing to do is shut your cake smasher and realize that you weren't there, you don't know what is true or what's not and move the eff on since you've probably done things that would subject you to being chastised by society if it ever became known on a national scale.

flippy
06-23-2010, 08:11 AM
He still should not have been in there.

He still should not have been in where?

The only person putting him in the bathroom is the accuser.

So what if this is actually what took place:

Ben & the accuser made out in the hallway outside of the bathroom, Ben realized how obliterated she was and stopped...and the rest is all made up by the SoHos?

I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm saying "what if?"

Would you all still feel the same way? Would there still be that holier than thou "he should have never gone out to that bar in the first place" attitude?

And if so, why? Why isn't the man allowed to go out with friends to celebrate his birthday? Because he's the QB for "your" team?

Bull$hit.

I'm certain that every single person maintaining that attitude has some type of skeleton hidden safely away in a closet no one will ever get a look into. It's pretty easy to talk about someone else's business when no one can see your own, no matter how bad it may be. That's what hypocrites do. Hypocrites say things like, "Sure I've done some dumb things but I'm not a $100 million QB, blah blah blah".

The smart thing to do is shut your cake smasher and realize that you weren't there, you don't know what is true or what's not and move the eff on since you've probably done things that would subject you to being chastised by society if it ever became known on a national scale.

What other gravel stories are you hiding from us?

I like the use of cake smasher btw.

flippy
06-23-2010, 08:16 AM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Northern_Blitz
06-23-2010, 09:53 AM
This is stupid.

The message that would be sent if the suspension wasn't reduced would be "f*ck the rehab". He was told that it could be reduced if he does what the league wants him to do. If the suspension doesn't get reduced, there is no justification for future violators to do what the league wants.

cruzer8
06-23-2010, 10:51 AM
This is stupid.

The message that would be sent if the suspension wasn't reduced would be "f*ck the rehab". He was told that it could be reduced if he does what the league wants him to do. If the suspension doesn't get reduced, there is no justification for future violators to do what the league wants.

Outstanding response.

siss
06-23-2010, 11:17 AM
He still should not have been in where?

He should not have gone to the bathroom or alone with her. However hindsight is 20/20.



So what if this is actually what took place:

Ben & the accuser made out in the hallway outside of the bathroom, Ben realized how obliterated she was and stopped...and the rest is all made up by the SoHos?

That is very possible. Ben still put himself in the position to be accused. He's in a small town in a college bar with a bunch of drunk sorority girls. It was a disaster waiting to happen.


Would you all still feel the same way? Would there still be that holier than thou "he should have never gone out to that bar in the first place" attitude?

And if so, why? Why isn't the man allowed to go out with friends to celebrate his birthday? Because he's the QB for "your" team?

Bull$hit.

If that was the case then the ZTA skanks need to be charged with filing a false police report and issue a public apology to Ben. However there was a reason no charges were filed. And as I have said before if a 6 week investigation doesn't turn up probable cause then I chose to believe that no crime took place.
They are both responsible. They both were dumb. The difference is Ben has 100 million dollar contract and a sexual assault law suite hanging over his head.

cruzer8
06-23-2010, 12:58 PM
The sorority sluts are the only ones saying that Ben went in the bathroom with her. No one else is saying it but those three skanks. No one.

Can't you see his point? No one knows for sure what happened but everyone is quick to assume that Ben did something just becuase those whores said he did. And going to a college bar is not a crime. Athletes do that all the time. You mentioned hindsight being 20/20 and that would apply to people who say Ben made a mistake going to that bar because "look what happened".

It's no different than people who complain that Ben holds the ball too long when he takes a sack yet cheer wildly when he holds the ball too long and makes a huge play.

Hindsight. 20/20. Always. See how that works?

Crash
06-23-2010, 01:46 PM
Yep. It's not the accuser who needs to get charged. It's Biancofiore and her cohorts.

They instigated this crap. Listen to them on the CDs and you see why they didn't charge Ben.

feltdizz
06-23-2010, 03:02 PM
The sorority sluts are the only ones saying that Ben went in the bathroom with her. No one else is saying it but those three skanks. No one.

Can't you see his point? No one knows for sure what happened but everyone is quick to assume that Ben did something just becuase those whores said he did. And going to a college bar is not a crime. Athletes do that all the time. You mentioned hindsight being 20/20 and that would apply to people who say Ben made a mistake going to that bar because "look what happened".

It's no different than people who complain that Ben holds the ball too long when he takes a sack yet cheer wildly when he holds the ball too long and makes a huge play.
Hindsight. 20/20. Always. See how that works?

Does this apply to BA passing instead of running? See how this works? :stirpot

Slapstick
06-23-2010, 03:27 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

flippy
06-23-2010, 03:42 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

That's not his fault. He had to be apologizing for something else.

cruzer8
06-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

He was suspended for buying alcohol that was consumed by underaged persons.

Ghost
06-23-2010, 04:31 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

He was suspended for buying alcohol that was consumed by underaged persons.

That doens't really make sense though. It's not the job of bar patrons to card other patrons to establish if they are of drinking age in a bar. Has anyone ever carded a young looking girl in a bar before buying her a drink or shot. Preposterous! If that's really what got him suspended then I'm even more pi$$ed about the Steelers not having their QB for the first 4 games.

Unfortunately sometimes examples are made. That's what really happened to Ben. RG needed to show he'd be tough on every player regardless of stature so he brought down the hammmer on BR even though there were no arrests or charges. BS.

cruzer8
06-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

He was suspended for buying alcohol that was consumed by underaged persons.

That doens't really make sense though. It's not the job of bar patrons to card other patrons to establish if they are of drinking age in a bar. Has anyone ever carded a young looking girl in a bar before buying her a drink or shot. Preposterous! If that's really what got him suspended then I'm even more pi$$ed about the Steelers not having their QB for the first 4 games.

Unfortunately sometimes examples are made. That's what really happened to Ben. RG needed to show he'd be tough on every player regardless of stature so he brought down the hammmer on BR even though there were no arrests or charges. BS.

I am in complete agreement. I was just pointing out why Rog said he suspended Ben.

flippy
06-23-2010, 05:24 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

He was suspended for buying alcohol that was consumed by underaged persons.

That doens't really make sense though. It's not the job of bar patrons to card other patrons to establish if they are of drinking age in a bar. Has anyone ever carded a young looking girl in a bar before buying her a drink or shot. Preposterous! If that's really what got him suspended then I'm even more pi$$ed about the Steelers not having their QB for the first 4 games.

Unfortunately sometimes examples are made. That's what really happened to Ben. RG needed to show he'd be tough on every player regardless of stature so he brought down the hammmer on BR even though there were no arrests or charges. BS.

If that's the case, why is Ben taking accountability for BS? Ben taking accountability makes him look guilty to me.

Sugar
06-23-2010, 06:02 PM
If that's the case, why is Ben taking accountability for BS? Ben taking accountability makes him look guilty to me.

Ben takes the rap on himself a lot when his OL doesn't block for him or a receiver screws up a route. If he tried to make a public statement about this it would be fodder for further intrusions into his life anyway. Sometimes it's best to just take your medicine and move on.

kiwi_sarah
06-23-2010, 06:09 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Ben apologized for allowing himself to be the subject of bad PR for the Steelers and the NFL...

Not coincidentally, he was suspended for the same reason...

He was suspended for buying alcohol that was consumed by underaged persons.

That doens't really make sense though. It's not the job of bar patrons to card other patrons to establish if they are of drinking age in a bar. Has anyone ever carded a young looking girl in a bar before buying her a drink or shot. Preposterous! If that's really what got him suspended then I'm even more pi$$ed about the Steelers not having their QB for the first 4 games.

Unfortunately sometimes examples are made. That's what really happened to Ben. RG needed to show he'd be tough on every player regardless of stature so he brought down the hammmer on BR even though there were no arrests or charges. BS.

If that's the case, why is Ben taking accountability for BS? Ben taking accountability makes him look guilty to me.

Because...he's trying to reduce the suspension. He can't sit there and be cocky Ben and say "I didn't do anything wrong". He took responsibility for making stupid choices, which I think everyone agrees he did to varying extents (some think he shouldn't have been out, some think he shouldn't drink, some just think he should bang hot chicks)

Everytime I read this thread, I'm outraged. He was suspended six games....six....for "supplying a minor with alcohol". It's ridiculous. Grrrrrr.

I agree with Northern_Blitz - if they don't reduce the suspension when Ben has complied with everything they asked, it sends a pretty clear message that the conditions imposed don't really matter (and that he was always going to be out six games no matter what).

feltdizz
06-23-2010, 06:47 PM
Goodell has already stated Ben was doing a good job so far...

As far as Ben having no responsibility for carding chicks... Maybe he shouldn't go to college bars where there are 18 year olds since he has so much to lose and so little to gain by being there.

feltdizz
06-23-2010, 06:57 PM
If that's the case, why is Ben taking accountability for BS? Ben taking accountability makes him look guilty to me.

Ben takes the rap on himself a lot when his OL doesn't block for him or a receiver screws up a route. If he tried to make a public statement about this it would be fodder for further intrusions into his life anyway. Sometimes it's best to just take your medicine and move on.
True... but when he plays bad he is taking the rap for his game. Ben is human and he makes mistakes...

I don't think Ben is taking the rap for a crime he committed but I do think he is taking the rap for the stupid decisions he made that night. Unless Ben is a full blown jerk and a liar one has to agree he has admitted to losing himself. Last year he also did an interview where he admitted to being a bad leader at times....

Ben set the bar himself but some people keep trying to lower it for him. I don't understand why.

stlrz d
06-23-2010, 08:13 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Easy answer. Conditional 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4 or increased to a longer suspension at Goodell's discretion.

And as was pointed out, the suspension was for buying alcohol for underage people.

siss
06-23-2010, 09:10 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Easy answer. Conditional 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4 or increased to a longer suspension at Goodell's discretion.

And as was pointed out, the suspension was for buying alcohol for underage people.
Well that was the excuse that Goodell used. He was really suspended for conduct unbecoming of a franchise QB.

stlrz d
06-23-2010, 10:07 PM
Quick question Mr stlrz-d.

While you and Iwere busy smashing some cake :D, Ben was remorseful/apologizing in the media. What was he regretful about if nothing happened? I wouldn't apologize for anything if I didn't do anything.

Also why did he get suspended?

Easy answer. Conditional 6 game suspension that can be reduced to 4 or increased to a longer suspension at Goodell's discretion.

And as was pointed out, the suspension was for buying alcohol for underage people.
Well that was the excuse that Goodell used. He was really suspended for conduct unbecoming of a franchise QB.

Pretty subjective, don't you think? We all heard the conflicting statements from the SoHos. No one knows for sure what really took place there except the people who were there. For all any of us know, Ben didn't do a damn thing wrong but be accused of something falsely. Everything is pure speculation by everyone, including me.

Crash
06-23-2010, 11:07 PM
Ben was suspended because of his race and he's a QB. People dared Goodell to treat Ben like he "treated" Vick, and he gave in.

Vince Jackson and Vince Young remain free. Don't tell me about conduct.

RuthlessBurgher
06-23-2010, 11:34 PM
Ben was suspended because of his race and he's a QB. People dared Goodell to treat Ben like he "treated" Vick, and he gave in.

Vince Jackson and Vince Young remain free. Don't tell me about conduct.

Goodell obviously prefers those Italian boys. :wink:

Slapstick
06-24-2010, 10:12 AM
That's not his fault. He had to be apologizing for something else.

It is his fault...

He's the one who was alone in his room with McNulty...

He's the one who was at the bar in a compromising position with a drunk 20 year old coed...

If you simply avoid situations instead of playing into them, you don't give the media any ammunition to shoot you down...

If you don't, you create lots of opportunities for bad PR and you get suspended...

I get the feeling that Ben has done and will do a lot of apologizing for things that aren't directly his fault...

cruzer8
06-24-2010, 10:30 AM
That's not his fault. He had to be apologizing for something else.

It is his fault...

He's the one who was alone in his room with McNulty...

He's the one who was at the bar in a compromising position with a drunk 20 year old coed...

If you simply avoid situations instead of playing into them, you don't give the media any ammunition to shoot you down...

If you don't, you create lots of opportunities for bad PR and you get suspended...

I get the feeling that Ben has done and will do a lot of apologizing for things that aren't directly his fault...

He should just join the priesthood. :roll:

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
06-24-2010, 10:59 AM
That's not his fault. He had to be apologizing for something else.

It is his fault...

He's the one who was alone in his room with McNulty...

He's the one who was at the bar in a compromising position with a drunk 20 year old coed...

If you simply avoid situations instead of playing into them, you don't give the media any ammunition to shoot you down...

If you don't, you create lots of opportunities for bad PR and you get suspended...

I get the feeling that Ben has done and will do a lot of apologizing for things that aren't directly his fault...

He should just join the priesthood. :roll:

There is a huge difference between what is more appropriate for someone in his situation and joining the priesthood. And, after all, the priesthood would not allow him his Sundays for football. :lol:

But seriously.......

When you are in certain positions in life you do not put yourself in potentially compromising situations. For example, if you were the president of the US you would not be caught in the oval office getting blown by an intern....... :lol:

cruzer8
06-24-2010, 12:39 PM
That's not his fault. He had to be apologizing for something else.

It is his fault...

He's the one who was alone in his room with McNulty...

He's the one who was at the bar in a compromising position with a drunk 20 year old coed...

If you simply avoid situations instead of playing into them, you don't give the media any ammunition to shoot you down...

If you don't, you create lots of opportunities for bad PR and you get suspended...

I get the feeling that Ben has done and will do a lot of apologizing for things that aren't directly his fault...

He should just join the priesthood. :roll:

There is a huge difference between what is more appropriate for someone in his situation and joining the priesthood. And, after all, the priesthood would not allow him his Sundays for football. :lol:

But seriously.......

When you are in certain positions in life you do not put yourself in potentially compromising situations. For example, if you were the president of the US you would not be caught in the oval office getting blown by an intern....... :lol:

He could be accused of something just by walking down the street and bumping into someone.

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 12:50 PM
He could be accused of something just by walking down the street and bumping into someone.

How many football players have been accused by just walking down the street and bumping into someone? :roll:

flippy
06-24-2010, 01:02 PM
He could be accused of something just by walking down the street and bumping into someone.

How many football players have been accused by just walking down the street and bumping into someone? :roll:

You just gave up LT's defense. :wink

cruzer8
06-24-2010, 02:26 PM
He could be accused of something just by walking down the street and bumping into someone.

How many football players have been accused by just walking down the street and bumping into someone? :roll:

The point is that it is a possibility. But I'm not surprised at all that the point is lost on you.

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 09:06 PM
He could be accused of something just by walking down the street and bumping into someone.

How many football players have been accused by just walking down the street and bumping into someone? :roll:

The point is that it is a possibility. But I'm not surprised at all that the point is lost on you.
Anythig is possible. Don't get upset because your point was as sharp as a butter knife.

feltdizz
06-24-2010, 09:15 PM
Ben was suspended because of his race and he's a QB. People dared Goodell to treat Ben like he "treated" Vick, and he gave in.

Vince Jackson and Vince Young remain free. Don't tell me about conduct.
Free? Is Ben in jail? Vince Young shouldn't be free?

You haven't changed at all... Still a victim.

Crash
06-24-2010, 10:22 PM
Free in the NFL's court of law.

Where as the uncharged white Ben was convicted and sentenced to 4-6 games off.

Goodell made the situation for Ben (and every player) much worse.

But now fans all over the web are now calling Goodell the hypocrite he is for not being consistent with his punishments.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 12:56 PM
Free in the NFL's court of law.

Where as the uncharged white Ben was convicted and sentenced to 4-6 games off.

Goodell made the situation for Ben (and every player) much worse.

But now fans all over the web are now calling Goodell the hypocrite he is for not being consistent with his punishments.

White Ben? Is there a black Ben on our team? do you refer to yourself as white crash.. or just tanned crash? :wft

and I'm sorry... but using the fans on the web as proof is juvenile. Go to any other NFL teams discussion board and you will see how they really feel about Ben's suspension. The only fans of other teams who may agree with you probably refer to players as very brown Vince Young and clammy white Matt Jones....

Crash
06-26-2010, 01:00 PM
and I'm sorry... but using the fans on the web as proof is juvenile

Media, players, and fan backlash (on the web) is why Goodell suspended Ben.

So if it's juvenile, Ben should never have been suspended. Because that backlash is why Goodell suspended him.

feltdizz
06-26-2010, 01:39 PM
and I'm sorry... but using the fans on the web as proof is juvenile

Media, players, and fan backlash (on the web) is why Goodell suspended Ben.

So if it's juvenile, Ben should never have been suspended. Because that backlash is why Goodell suspended him.

the web? really? You are trying to give yourself and boards like this way too much credit.

Ben was on EVERY major news channel for 2 weeks. CNN, NBC, ABC, FOXNEWS, etc....

Goodell never gave a crap what players thought with every other suspension so why would he care now? Once again, our FO was proactive in speeding up the suspension because the quicker it's over.... the quicker it's over..

The same reason why Holmes was shipped out of town on the first thing smoking.... it's called damage control but you aren't smart enough to realize how these things work.

keep up the racial injustice though... keep hope alive, all that good stuff.

feltdizz
07-01-2010, 01:00 PM
Ben was suspended because of his race and he's a QB. People dared Goodell to treat Ben like he "treated" Vick, and he gave in.

Vince Jackson and Vince Young remain free. Don't tell me about conduct.

so much for Jackson :stirpot

doesn't really make you feel better about Ben's situation though, does it?

Crash
07-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Ben was suspended because of his race and he's a QB. People dared Goodell to treat Ben like he "treated" Vick, and he gave in.

Vince Jackson and Vince Young remain free. Don't tell me about conduct.

so much for Jackson :stirpot

doesn't really make you feel better about Ben's situation though, does it?

No. It just proves my point.

Two convictions for DUI = 3 games.

Drinking (NOT BUYING because he didn't) booze with under 21 bar whores who had fake IDs = 6 games.

The never charged with a crime white guy got more.