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RuthlessBurgher
06-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Since the Trib hired him, I've deliberated over when — and why — John "Amateur Hour" Harris will sign a contract extension. Or, if he deserves one. :lol:


Harris: Tomlin contract not a done deal
By John Harris, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, June 8, 2010

Since the close of the 2009 season, I've deliberated over when — and why — Steelers coach Mike Tomlin will sign a eagerly anticipated contract extension. Or, if he deserves one.

As we enter the second week in June, with offseason workouts concluding Thursday and Tomlin entering the final year of his contract, my thoughts are clear.

I don't believe the Steelers' brass is completely sold on Tomlin.

Several factors nudged me toward that opinion.

When Tomlin won Super Bowl XLIII in his second season, becoming the youngest coach in NFL history to do so, his star was never higher. Yet, the Steelers didn't pull the trigger on a new deal.

Maybe Tomlin's asking price is too high. Or, maybe the Steelers want more time to determine if Tomlin is another George Seifert or Barry Switzer — coaches who won a Super Bowl with someone else's players.

Does Tomlin deserve a contract extension? Of course he does.

But contract extensions should be a joyous occasion for both sides. The lack of urgency toward a new deal for Tomlin has become quite painful.

What strikes a nerve for me about the lack of a new deal for Tomlin is the team's track record for taking care of its coaches who win.

Tomlin's three-year coaching record is 31-17 with two playoff appearances. He's 3-1 in the postseason.

Consider that Steelers management never failed to re-sign Bill Cowher with fewer than two years on his contract until the last moment.

In 2006, the sides failed to agree on a new deal. When Cowher resigned following the 2006 season, he had one year left on his contract.

In January, team president Art Rooney II told the Tribune-Review, "I think Mike's going to be our coach for a long time. That's certainly what we're shooting for, and that's his intention, so we'll deal with it at the appropriate time."

The "appropriate time" might have been a few months ago, but a lot has happened since January. Not the least of which is that quarterback Ben Roethlisberger will open the season apart from his teammates after violating the league's personal conduct policy.

Other significant changes have also taken place.

Rooney promised the Steelers will concentrate more on the run despite a record- setting passing output in 2009 — not at all what Tomlin and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians envisioned following last year's high-octane attack.

For another, the Steelers re-signed two players from other teams who lost their starting jobs under Tomlin — linebacker Larry Foote and cornerback Bryant McFadden.

Rarely does a coach, particularly a Steelers coach, bring back players he determined were no longer starters after letting them go — not to mention signing both players to contract extensions upon their return.

What's telling for me is a slight shift in philosophy — on offense and defense — away from Tomlin's point of view.

For instance, while Tomlin spoke repeatedly about his secondary needing to create more splash plays — for example, interceptions — during the team's five-game losing streak last season, defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau told me recently, "I don't really use interceptions as an evaluating criteria. I think they're nice, they're good — you want them. (But) the No. 1 thing is the other guy doesn't catch the ball."

Of course, the Steelers could sign Tomlin to a new deal before the end of the week. Management may want to have Tomlin's contract situation settled before the start of training camp July 30 so as to not create another distraction along with the media circus that's sure to shadow Roethlisberger around Latrobe.

After all, the last thing management wants to do is give players the impression that Tomlin, even though the team holds an option on his contract for the 2011 season, isn't going to be their coach for a long time — unless he's not their long-term choice.

The same holds true for some of the assistants hired when Tomlin took over in 2007. That includes Arians, who was the target of offseason media reports that Tomlin considered letting him go — a charge Tomlin denies.

Put another way: If the Steelers don't sign Tomlin to a new deal before the start of the season, it's a vote of no-confidence for a coach who made history in his second season.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_684884.html

fezziwig
06-08-2010, 01:59 PM
I wonder if the Rooneys are seeing fault in Tomlin with Bens troubles and other troubled players we have had since Cowher departed ?

cruzer8
06-08-2010, 02:02 PM
I wonder if the Rooneys are seeing fault in Tomlin with Bens troubles and other troubled players we have had since Cowher departed ?

There were player issues under Cowher and Noll too.

Steelers>NFL
06-08-2010, 02:31 PM
"Unleash hell" prediction was bold, but failed. I wonder if the Rooneys
remember this and put this in their back pocket for later if necessary.
I mean Tomlin takes the blame for the offense last season. And the lack of
running game. It is his job to step in and tell Arians let's run the ball more.
Or to change the plays or whatever. He admitted that he has never
stepped in and override BAs or LeBeau"s play calling. He seems to let coaches
do whatever they wich and when they wish during the course of the games.
Why is this??? Make ya wonder.

And I am a big Tomlin supporter. But I do question this area.

flippy
06-08-2010, 02:39 PM
Since the Trib hired him, I've deliberated over when — and why — John "Amateur Hour" Harris will sign a contract extension. Or, if he deserves one. :lol:


I got the biggest chuckle out of the line "my thoughts are clear".

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2010, 02:46 PM
would you give a contract extension to someone who hires Arians as the team's OC? :wft

Oviedo
06-08-2010, 02:50 PM
Since the Trib hired him, I've deliberated over when — and why — John "Amateur Hour" Harris will sign a contract extension. Or, if he deserves one. :lol:


I got the biggest chuckle out of the line "my thoughts are clear".

Harris is proof that you can get a decent job with a degree from a correspondance course. This guy has to be the worst, make that tied for the worst with Mark Madden, sports writer associated with Pittsburgh sports.

He is just plain terrible. There is better journalism from posters on the site than anything Harris writes.

steelblood
06-08-2010, 03:04 PM
I'd rather read my eight year old's school papers while my wife whines about the state of our yard.

calmkiller
06-08-2010, 03:18 PM
would you give a contract extension to someone who hires Arians as the team's OC? :wft


There was an article posted earlier in the year that says that Arians wasn't hired by Tomlin. It was in his contract that he would get the OC job when BC left. Tomlin had nothing to do with it. It also stated that only the Roonies could fire Arians. Not Tomlin.

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2010, 03:42 PM
would you give a contract extension to someone who hires Arians as the team's OC? :wft


There was an article posted earlier in the year that says that Arians wasn't hired by Tomlin. It was in his contract that he would get the OC job when BC left. Tomlin had nothing to do with it. It also stated that only the Roonies could fire Arians. Not Tomlin.


I have never known the Rooneys to mandate the hiring of an OC to a new incoming head coach...Tomlin must have at least signed off on it and he definitely defended Arians when the FO wanted him fired so Tomlin is involved in the process.



It took little time for the new, young Steelers coach to allay fears that he would slash everything on a team one year removed from a Super Bowl championship -- from their defense to the psyche of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

Mike Tomlin, formally introduced as the Steelers' third head coach in 38 years, went to work quickly on his staff, hiring both coordinators. He confirmed that Dick LeBeau will remain as his defensive coordinator, and he promoted Bruce Arians from coaching the wide receivers to his offensive coordinator.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07023/75 ... z0qI9HJcNV (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07023/755980-66.stm#ixzz0qI9HJcNV)


and -



Bouchette also confirmed that “the front office” wants Arians out, but Tomlin does not. Just who “front office” is remains unclear. It could be Kevin Colbert or Art Rooney II or both.

(Bouchette also reported that Tomlin has fought successfully to save the job of one of his special teams coaches following the 2007 season, a fact was not widely known before today.)

Brown also informed his readers that Tomlin was in the process of meeting with his players, one-by-one, and then would move on to meet with each coach individually.

Both Brown and Ed Bouchette informed readers that no final decision on Arians is likely until Tomlin has completed those meetings, something which might not happen until the beginning of next week.

The Tribune-Review's Joe Starkey, who was critical of many of Tomlin's coaching hires, has written an excellent piece that about the dilemma created by Arians.

http://steelcurtainrising.blogspot.com/ ... -fate.html (http://steelcurtainrising.blogspot.com/2010/01/rumors-swirl-over-arians-fate.html)

feltdizz
06-08-2010, 06:41 PM
I don't buy Tomlin coming in and having full power to hire and fire his first year. We hired him pretty late if I remember...

I also don't buy BA being a Ben plea from fired... It sure seems like Pittsburgh reporters frame their stories to fit their fantasies of how the Steelers should be run.

Sugar
06-08-2010, 06:49 PM
I don't buy Tomlin coming in and having full power to hire and fire his first year. We hired him pretty late if I remember...

I also don't buy BA being a Ben plea from fired... It sure seems like Pittsburgh reporters frame their stories to fit their fantasies of how the Steelers should be run.

Agreed- it seems like people are interpreting facts to match their own imaginations.

Prok
06-08-2010, 07:03 PM
would you give a contract extension to someone who hires Arians as the team's OC? :wft

LMAO! Funny but true IMO!!

We all know the team will extend coach T soon enough though. Maybe it'll be the day after he fires BA. lol

flippy
06-08-2010, 07:28 PM
would you give a contract extension to someone who hires Arians as the team's OC? :wft

LMAO! Funny but true IMO!!

We all know the team will extend coach T soon enough though. Maybe it'll be the day after he fires BA. lol

It'd be hilarious if he got extended tomorrow.

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2010, 07:29 PM
I always agreed with the old Bill Parcells quote about a coach having input in personnel decisions which went something like:

"If I'm a chef and am gonna be held responsible for how the meal turns out, I wanna be able to go to the store and pick out my own ingredients."

Tomlin may have been mandated to his first year, but i doubt the Rooneys are forcing Tomlin to keep coaches on his staff today. Tomlin may have listened to Ben, Colbert and the Rooneys' input on whether to keep or fire Arians this off-season but the fact Arians will be our OC this upcoming season was Tomlin's decision.

feltdizz
06-08-2010, 07:45 PM
I always agreed with the old Bill Parcells quote about a coach having input in personnel decisions which went something like:

"If I'm a chef and am gonna be held responsible for how the meal turns out, I wanna be able to go to the store and pick out my own ingredients."

Tomlin may have been mandated to his first year, but i doubt the Rooneys are forcing Tomlin to keep coaches on his staff today. Tomlin may have listened to Ben, Colbert and the Rooneys' input on whether to keep or fire Arians this off-season but the fact Arians will be our OC this upcoming season was Tomlin's decision.

Tomlin said he was cheap labor when he was hired. He wasn't a hot commodity. He was essentially a black Bill Cowher... most of Steeler Nation said "who is he?" when they were both hired.

Over time Cowher built up capital... he wasn't calling the shots regarding FO decisions and personell in his first 3 years.

As far as BA is concerned... the only people who said BA was fired were the ones who wanted him fired outside the organization. Begging Ben pleads for his OC's job after putting up 4500 yards and a RB with 1200... When all he had to do was splice together the 5 leads the D lost in he fourth quarter.

and I seriously doubt the FO is holding onto unleashing hell as a card they would play in negotiations.

RuthlessBurgher
06-08-2010, 08:19 PM
I always agreed with the old Bill Parcells quote about a coach having input in personnel decisions which went something like:

"If I'm a chef and am gonna be held responsible for how the meal turns out, I wanna be able to go to the store and pick out my own ingredients."

Tomlin may have been mandated to his first year, but i doubt the Rooneys are forcing Tomlin to keep coaches on his staff today. Tomlin may have listened to Ben, Colbert and the Rooneys' input on whether to keep or fire Arians this off-season but the fact Arians will be our OC this upcoming season was Tomlin's decision.

Yup. When he left New England, he said "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries" in reference to Robert Kraft overruling him and choosing Terry Glenn with the 7th overall pick in 1996 (with the Tuna subsequently referring to Glenn as "she" on numerous occassions.

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2010, 08:37 PM
Yup. When he left New England, he said "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries" in reference to Robert Kraft overruling him and choosing Terry Glenn with the 7th overall pick in 1996 (with the Tuna subsequently referring to Glenn as "she" on numerous occassions.


thanks for the exact quote, here are some more of my favorite Parcell quotes:



“He was one of my best friends. . . . Those are the people you can count on the fingers of one hand.”


“Success is never final, but failure can be.”


“When you don't know that you don't know, it's a lot different than when you do know that you don't know.”



“No matter how much you've won, no matter how many games, no matter how many championships, no matter how many Super Bowls, you're not winning now, so you stink.”


“There is winning and there is misery.”


“I had an Italian mother. She didn't view what I was doing as really a profession. She viewed it as recreation. I said, "Gee Mom, I'm going to be the head coach of the New York Giants." And she said to me, "When are you going to get a real job like your brother the banker?"”

fezziwig
06-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

feltdizz
06-08-2010, 11:48 PM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

No.... but if we had a message board best believe we would have one.

I really despised Arian early on but I started watching other teams play calling in similar situations and realized it wasn't really that different.

Look at Andy Reid... That guy wouldn't run if the D had 8 safeties playing Ed Reed deep but thy were very successful for years. Sure they never won a SB but most teams don't.

I really was shocked at how little anger the board had with Lebeaus D last year. What if the O puts up similar production and the D keeps blowing it late in games. Is it still BA's fault?

hawaiiansteel
06-09-2010, 02:25 AM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

No.... but if we had a message board best believe we would have one.

I really despised Arian early on but I started watching other teams play calling in similar situations and realized it wasn't really that different.

Look at Andy Reid... That guy wouldn't run if the D had 8 safeties playing Ed Reed deep but thy were very successful for years. Sure they never won a SB but most teams don't.

I really was shocked at how little anger the board had with Lebeaus D last year. What if the O puts up similar production and the D keeps blowing it late in games. Is it still BA's fault?


I think LeBeau got a free pass because our defense was missing Troy and Smitty and everyone knows you can't stop other teams with Gay, Mundy, Burnett and Tyrone Carter in the defensive backfield.

Oviedo
06-09-2010, 08:07 AM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

Arians is in the unfortunate position of being OC when message boards exploded in popularity and never ahve been or will be "experts" have had a forum to spew their "expertise."

The relaity is however Offensive Coord for the Steelers has always been a thankless position. Fans have long complained about Joe Walton, Kevin Gilbride, etc. Even guys like Mularkey got complaints about too much trick plays and Whizenhunt about the lack of innovation and not taking advanatage of Ben's abilities.

No matter who the OC is for the Steelers there will be a vocal group of fans who know better and will complain.

Arians has also had the double misfortune of having a "legend" as the defensive coord at the same time he is the OC. Therefore everything is the offnse's fault or issue because no one dares challenge or complain about the defense.

It just magnifies the scrutiny the OC gets because many aren't happy unless they are complaining about something to show they know more and they know better.

stlrz d
06-09-2010, 08:15 AM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

Arians is in the unfortunate position of being OC when message boards exploded in popularity and never ahve been or will be "experts" have had a forum to spew their "expertise."

The relaity is however Offensive Coord for the Steelers has always been a thankless position. Fans have long complained about Joe Walton, Kevin Gilbride, etc. Even guys like Mularkey got complaints about too much trick plays and Whizenhunt about the lack of innovation and not taking advanatage of Ben's abilities.

No matter who the OC is for the Steelers there will be a vocal group of fans who know better and will complain.

Arians has also had the double misfortune of having a "legend" as the defensive coord at the same time he is the OC. Therefore everything is the offnse's fault or issue because no one dares challenge or complain about the defense.

It just magnifies the scrutiny the OC gets because many aren't happy unless they are complaining about something to show they know more and they know better.

You mean like some experts who claim we would be better suited for a 4-3 defense?

:stirpot

fezziwig
06-09-2010, 08:33 AM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

Arians is in the unfortunate position of being OC when message boards exploded in popularity and never ahve been or will be "experts" have had a forum to spew their "expertise."

The relaity is however Offensive Coord for the Steelers has always been a thankless position. Fans have long complained about Joe Walton, Kevin Gilbride, etc. Even guys like Mularkey got complaints about too much trick plays and Whizenhunt about the lack of innovation and not taking advanatage of Ben's abilities.

No matter who the OC is for the Steelers there will be a vocal group of fans who know better and will complain.

Arians has also had the double misfortune of having a "legend" as the defensive coord at the same time he is the OC. Therefore everything is the offnse's fault or issue because no one dares challenge or complain about the defense.

It just magnifies the scrutiny the OC gets because many aren't happy unless they are complaining about something to show they know more and they know better.



gee, if your just going to shoot from the hip with an opinion :)


Good response bro. I too considered the internet era compared to days or coaches of past. The only one I remember getting the abuse was Walton, Gilbride and Sherman. As I recall Walton stayed the longest and I think that was Noll pride not getting rid of him sooner. Cowher didn't wait too long to drop the axe if he wasn't happy with an assistant. I remember Mularkey getting some heat but none of these coaches maybe other than Walton was on the hot seat with the fans so badly. Probably Sherman would have been if Cowher continue to stick with him but that's just it, Cowher didn't fart around with none productive coaches or coaches that didn't pan out.

Long story short, Arians got to go.

Oviedo
06-09-2010, 09:24 AM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

Arians is in the unfortunate position of being OC when message boards exploded in popularity and never ahve been or will be "experts" have had a forum to spew their "expertise."

The relaity is however Offensive Coord for the Steelers has always been a thankless position. Fans have long complained about Joe Walton, Kevin Gilbride, etc. Even guys like Mularkey got complaints about too much trick plays and Whizenhunt about the lack of innovation and not taking advanatage of Ben's abilities.

No matter who the OC is for the Steelers there will be a vocal group of fans who know better and will complain.

Arians has also had the double misfortune of having a "legend" as the defensive coord at the same time he is the OC. Therefore everything is the offnse's fault or issue because no one dares challenge or complain about the defense.

It just magnifies the scrutiny the OC gets because many aren't happy unless they are complaining about something to show they know more and they know better.

You mean like some experts who claim we would be better suited for a 4-3 defense?

:stirpot

Never said we would be better but always said we should at least have a conversation about it and our defensive coord should at least consider it. I've always just tried to point out that from a talent acquisition standpoint it does offer advanatages and I have offered an opinion that I think it allows young players to get on the field sooner because you aren't converting them. My opinion has always been focused on the talent acquisition.

The difference between me and other posters is that I know my opinion doesn't matter and I don't get angry and launch personal attacks on the emplyees of the Steelers or other posters if they don't agree with me. I just accept they aren't as smart as me and move on :stirpot

RuthlessBurgher
06-09-2010, 09:49 AM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

Arians is in the unfortunate position of being OC when message boards exploded in popularity and never ahve been or will be "experts" have had a forum to spew their "expertise."

The relaity is however Offensive Coord for the Steelers has always been a thankless position. Fans have long complained about Joe Walton, Kevin Gilbride, etc. Even guys like Mularkey got complaints about too much trick plays and Whizenhunt about the lack of innovation and not taking advanatage of Ben's abilities.

No matter who the OC is for the Steelers there will be a vocal group of fans who know better and will complain.

Arians has also had the double misfortune of having a "legend" as the defensive coord at the same time he is the OC. Therefore everything is the offnse's fault or issue because no one dares challenge or complain about the defense.

It just magnifies the scrutiny the OC gets because many aren't happy unless they are complaining about something to show they know more and they know better.



gee, if your just going to shoot from the hip with an opinion :)


Good response bro. I too considered the internet era compared to days or coaches of past. The only one I remember getting the abuse was Walton, Gilbride and Sherman. As I recall Walton stayed the longest and I think that was Noll pride not getting rid of him sooner. Cowher didn't wait too long to drop the axe if he wasn't happy with an assistant. I remember Mularkey getting some heat but none of these coaches maybe other than Walton was on the hot seat with the fans so badly. Probably Sherman would have been if Cowher continue to stick with him but that's just it, Cowher didn't fart around with none productive coaches or coaches that didn't pan out.

Long story short, Arians got to go.

I think Arians is in the middle of the Steeler O.C. continuum of the past few decades. He is actually a better fit than Gilbride, Walton, or Sherman, but falls behind Gailey, Whisenhunt, and Mularkey. Arians' flaws are just maginified because we get to talk about him in a public forum to hundreds of other fans at the same time, as opposed to complaining to just a handful of guys when we would watch games in the pre-internet message board days.

MaxAMillion
06-09-2010, 01:32 PM
I hope they fire Tomlin and bring in a coach who will run the ball 40 times a game since that is what Rooney II appears to want. Let's undermine the coach and his philosphy (something Jerry Jones would do) by speaking about how unhappy you are with the running game. I doubt the old man would have made those public statements.

I say let's become a running team again that continually gets knocked out in the playoffs (see the 90's) even though the NFL is now a passing league and the Steelers have a franchise QB. Everyone knows that the defenses problems stopping teams were due to the Steelers not running the ball enough (sarcasm).

Hell, the passing game is already hurting as a result of the deal to trade away your best receiver for a bag of balls. Might as well take even more emphasis away from the pass and just run the ball over and over again.

cruzer8
06-09-2010, 01:45 PM
I hope they fire Tomlin and bring in a coach who will run the ball 40 times a game since that is what Rooney II appears to want. Let's undermine the coach and his philosphy (something Jerry Jones would do) by speaking about how unhappy you are with the running game. I doubt the old man would have made those public statements.

I say let's become a running team again that continually gets knocked out in the playoffs (see the 90's) even though the NFL is now a passing league and the Steelers have a franchise QB. Everyone knows that the defenses problems stopping teams were due to the Steelers not running the ball enough (sarcasm).

Hell, the passing game is already hurting as a result of the deal to trade away your best receiver for a bag of balls. Might as well take even more emphasis away from the pass and just run the ball over and over again.

What Art part Deaux said is that we need the running game to be more effective, not that we need to run more.

RuthlessBurgher
06-09-2010, 01:49 PM
I hope they fire Tomlin and bring in a coach who will run the ball 40 times a game since that is what Rooney II appears to want. Let's undermine the coach and his philosphy (something Jerry Jones would do) by speaking about how unhappy you are with the running game. I doubt the old man would have made those public statements.

I say let's become a running team again that continually gets knocked out in the playoffs (see the 90's) even though the NFL is now a passing league and the Steelers have a franchise QB. Everyone knows that the defenses problems stopping teams were due to the Steelers not running the ball enough (sarcasm).

Hell, the passing game is already hurting as a result of the deal to trade away your best receiver for a bag of balls. Might as well take even more emphasis away from the pass and just run the ball over and over again.

Here is what Rooney said in that infamous interview everyone references:


"I think Mike and I certainly agreed coming off the season that we need to run the ball more consistently to get to where we want to get to."

"So that's part of the thinking in the offseason: We need to figure out how to get better running the football."

"We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season," he said.

Nowhere did he demand that the teams needs to run the ball more often.

He only said that we need to be able to more consistently.

Prok
06-09-2010, 01:51 PM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

No.... but if we had a message board best believe we would have one.

I really despised Arian early on but I started watching other teams play calling in similar situations and realized it wasn't really that different.

Look at Andy Reid... That guy wouldn't run if the D had 8 safeties playing Ed Reed deep but thy were very successful for years. Sure they never won a SB but most teams don't.

I really was shocked at how little anger the board had with Lebeaus D last year. What if the O puts up similar production and the D keeps blowing it late in games. Is it still BA's fault?


I can agree with ya on LeBeau. I think he gets a free pass from alot of us. Seems like he is above criticism at times. I can't stand the way he coaches on 3rd and long alot of times. Seems like we send 3 or 4 men to rush the QB and play prevent zone behind it 99% of the time. But i've gotten bashed for bringing that up in the past.

With all that said, i still think BA is a horrible game-planner and situational play-caller as well.

LordVile
06-09-2010, 01:58 PM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

No.... but if we had a message board best believe we would have one.

I really despised Arian early on but I started watching other teams play calling in similar situations and realized it wasn't really that different.

Look at Andy Reid... That guy wouldn't run if the D had 8 safeties playing Ed Reed deep but thy were very successful for years. Sure they never won a SB but most teams don't.

I really was shocked at how little anger the board had with Lebeaus D last year. What if the O puts up similar production and the D keeps blowing it late in games. Is it still BA's fault?[/quote]

It was more the defensive PLAYERS fault. Not the defensive schemes, with the back ups in the secondary sucking. So i dont fault LeBeau. With Arians, however the players make the most out of what he calls, or try to, even when his play calling isn't good. And we had less injury on offense this past season. If the scenario plays out as you suggest (with a healthy shored up D) then I will sure as hell be pist with LeBeau.

Arians isn't as bad as i originally thought, however I do think he could be better if he was less stubborn and would mix it up more often, we could really have something going.

Oviedo
06-09-2010, 02:20 PM
Does anyone recall the Steeler Nation complaining about an assistant Steeler coach as we do about Arians ?

No.... but if we had a message board best believe we would have one.

I really despised Arian early on but I started watching other teams play calling in similar situations and realized it wasn't really that different.

Look at Andy Reid... That guy wouldn't run if the D had 8 safeties playing Ed Reed deep but thy were very successful for years. Sure they never won a SB but most teams don't.

I really was shocked at how little anger the board had with Lebeaus D last year. What if the O puts up similar production and the D keeps blowing it late in games. Is it still BA's fault?[/quote:dd8hjazu]

It was more the defensive PLAYERS fault. Not the defensive schemes, with the back ups in the secondary sucking. So i dont fault LeBeau. With Arians, however the players make the most out of what he calls, or try to, even when his play calling isn't good. And we had less injury on offense this past season. If the scenario plays out as you suggest (with a healthy shored up D) then I will sure as hell be pist with LeBeau.

Arians isn't as bad as i originally thought, however I do think he could be better if he was less stubborn and would mix it up more often, we could really have something going.[/quote:dd8hjazu]


Whole other lengthy thread on weather the defensive failures are players or scheme. If the scheme is so depenedent on one player (Troy) that it can't be executed at a high level without him that is a scheme problem not a player problem. If you can't get young players ready early to replace veteran players because the scheme is too complex that is a scheme problem and it forces you to hang onto to players with mediocre skill like Ty Carter because they know the scheme so well.

flippy
06-09-2010, 03:53 PM
Lebeau arguably coached the best defense of all time just a year ago. He's more than earned a pass based on reputation.

You can blame injuries. You can blame the complexity of the Defense. But most likely, you've got to blame the quality of backups which also explains why our ST was so poor.

Not to mention 2 injuries happened to 2 of the best all time Steelers players.

Take the 2 best defensive players away from any team and they will struggle.

If the 2 guys are arguably the best ever at their respective positions, the drop off will be even greater.

I can't even think of a team with 2 defensive players as good as Troy and Aaron. Maybe the Ravens or Raiders. It would be like NE losing Tom Brady and Randy Moss for the season. Or the Vikings losing Favre and AP.

HeHateMe
06-09-2010, 07:56 PM
Lebeau arguably coached the best defense of all time just a year ago. He's more than earned a pass based on reputation.

You can blame injuries. You can blame the complexity of the Defense. But most likely, you've got to blame the quality of backups which also explains why our ST was so poor.

Not to mention 2 injuries happened to 2 of the best all time Steelers players.

Take the 2 best defensive players away from any team and they will struggle.

If the 2 guys are arguably the best ever at their respective positions, the drop off will be even greater.

I can't even think of a team with 2 defensive players as good as Troy and Aaron. Maybe the Ravens or Raiders. It would be like NE losing Tom Brady and Randy Moss for the season. Or the Vikings losing Favre and AP.
How much of 08 had to do with the PLAYERS vs Lebeaus coaching? When two of those PLAYERS (Smith/Polamalu) went down, what happened to his coaching? Moss and Brady? AD and Favre? Polamalu is up there with those guys but Smith CERTAINLY IS NOT. You mentioned Hall of Famers, Smith is not a Hall of Famer. YES, he is good in our system but send him to the Ravens and he might not even be a starter. Polamalu, Favre, Brady, Moss and AD are starters on every NFL Team they go to except the Colts (Favre,Brady). No dissing Smith because he is GREAT for US but lets not get carried away. Just like Keisel, he is a starter for US but WHERE ELSE would he start at?
Any coach can look good with great players, the test is when you dont have great players. I hate Bellicheat but for him to get the pats to 11-5 without Brady? Thats good coaching.
If you are going to be critical of Arians you MUST be critical of Lebeau for last season. This double standard stuff is just that. He is paid to do a job. As Tomlin says "We will never use injuries as an excuse. Injuries are part of the game". EVERY coach knows that and has to coach accordingly. Lebeau overachieved in 08 but he underachieved in 09.

I realize Tyrone Carter SUCKS but it is the job of the DC to hide weaknesses and capitilize on strengths. There were times that the DBS didnt even get the calls (Chiefs/Raiders) in games. How is that chalked up to injuries? That is on the DC. No matter how much I like and respect Lebeau he is not infallible and he is not above criticism