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hawaiiansteel
06-05-2010, 02:53 PM
we would now be forced to break the bank on Revis or face an ugly holdout like the Jets are presently having to deal with. The Oakland Raiders gave Nnamdi Asomugha a $45.3 million, three-year contract, this most likely is the neighborhood that Darrelle Revis will want to be in.




Darrelle Revis contract dispute with Jets has many layers, nuances


http://www.sportingnews.com/images/194577/article.jpeg


Arguably the NFL's best defensive player, Revis wants a deal to replace the landmark contract he signed three years ago. Solution to the Jets' pickle? Keep a promise.

Darrelle Revis believes the Jets promised a new deal and has done enough to get it.
In Houston, Houston Texans receiver Andre Johnson apparently wants a new contract because he doesn't like the long-term veteran deal he signed in 2007, with two years left on his rookie contract. He doesn't deserve one.

New York Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis falls into a gray area. On one hand, he received a landmark contract as the 14th overall pick in 2007. Three years in, he has the ability after 2010 to void the last two years of the deal. Then, the Jets can buy back years five and six at guaranteed salaries of $5 million in 2011 and a whopping $15 million in 2012.

So, basically, Revis has no basis to be complaining.

On the other hand, when it comes to the player's abilities, Jets coach Rex Ryan has thrown more bouquets than Larry King. Ryan publicly has said that Revis is the NFL's best defensive player; privately, Ryan will concede that Revis is the best player Ryan ever has coached -- and he has coached the likes of Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Chris McAlister, Deion Sanders and Terrell Suggs.


http://www.sportingnews.com/images/194578/article.jpeg



Rex Ryan's lavish praise could be ample grounds to justify dumping more cash on Revis Island.

To make a delicate situation even dicier, Revis believes the team has promised to rip up his deal and replace it with a contract that pays him commensurately with his skills. So even though Revis doesn't have the leverage typically needed to get the kind of package that pushes the market to a new level because he has three years left on his contract, the Jets apparently have done enough to justify Revis expecting to get at least as much as Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha, who averages north of $15 million per season.

The fact that Revis bolted voluntary workouts after participating in them for all of the offseason suggests that he previously was willing to be patient, but then his patience has expired, presumably because of a lack of progress. Moving forward, the question becomes whether he would hold out, either from an upcoming mandatory minicamp or training camp.

His agents, Neil Schwartz and Jonathan Feinsod, haven't been bashful about taking a stand. Last year, Atlanta Falcons receiver Roddy White -- who also is represented by Schwartz and Feinsod -- boycotted training camp until he got paid.

As a rookie, Revis held out nearly three weeks before getting his unconventional contract that goes from six years to four back to six, with a huge back-end payout.

But Revis might not have that option in 2010. Three years ago, I got my hands on a copy of his much-thicker-than-usual contract. (Since then, it has done a nice job of keeping the door to my office propped open.) The deal contains language that arguably allows the Jets to void the guaranteed nature of the money paid in 2011 and 2012, after the team exercises the buy-back, if Revis fails to show up for any mandatory practice or team function. That's not a huge deal given the quality of his play to date, but Revis would be taking a risk by giving up the guarantees.

So maybe he'll show up for mandatory minicamp and training camp. Maybe he won't. The future would be much easier to predict if the Jets would simply work out a new contract with the player about whom the team doesn't hesitate to gush.

Some league insiders suspect that the reluctance to pay Revis or other home-grown players traces directly to the top of the organization. Thus, at a time when owner Woody Johnson wants fans to make the long-term commitment that comes from buying high-priced personal seat licenses, his case for loyalty from the paying customers could significantly be aided by a show of loyalty to the players who have helped make the team more competitive than it's been in years.

And Johnson probably should start with Revis, the player who deserves it the most, especially if it's been promised to him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article ... rs-nuances (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-06-03/darrelle-revis-contract-dispute-has-many-layers-nuances)

Chucktownsteeler
06-05-2010, 03:43 PM
We did not have the choice between Revis or Timmons. The J-e-t-s Jets leaped frogged us and snagged Revis.


Chucktown


:tt2

hawaiiansteel
06-05-2010, 03:58 PM
We did not have the choice between Revis or Timmons. The J-e-t-s Jets leaped frogged us and snagged Revis.


Chucktown


:tt2


i know, had Revis been available to us we would have undoubtedly drafted him instead of Timmons.

Thank God for the NY Jets leapfrogging us, huh? :D

the Jets ship is sinking, they are facing a similar contract problem with Nick Mangold...

phillyesq
06-05-2010, 04:50 PM
we would now be forced to break the bank on Revis or face an ugly holdout like the Jets are presently having to deal with. The Oakland Raiders gave Nnamdi Asomugha a $45.3 million, three-year contract, this most likely is the neighborhood that Darrelle Revis will want to be in.


I wish that Timmons would have produced enough to even be in the position to think about holding out.

Revis may have some outrageous contract demands, but he is one of the best at his position, if not the best now. I wish I could even consider saying the same about Timmons.

feltdizz
06-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Phill,y you make it sound like Timmons stinks... He is a very good player and will have a great year.

steelz09
06-05-2010, 05:48 PM
I think this holdout will be ugly and I can see both sides ... Revis' and the Jets.

However, I would choose Revis over Timmons any day and twice on Sundays.. I really don't see how anybody wouldn't...

Timmons is a good player ... heck, he might turn into a great player..

Revis is already a great player. He is at a whole different level than Timmons at this stage of their careers regardless of their positions. A fair comparison would be Revis vs Patrick Willis. Not Revis vs. Timmons.

Revis is on pace to be that 'Champ Bailey' "lockdown" corner for the next several years... The same "lockdown" corner that "experts" say can no longer exist. Revis can take the Randy Moss', Reggie Waynes, Larry Fitzgeralds of the world and completely shut them down one-on-one. That is soooo rare in today's NFL (given the rules) it's incredible. It gives the Jets so much defensive flexibility including single covering the NFL's best receivers and then double teaming their opponents 2nd best receiver and/or tight end. While other teams have to double cover the number #1, and single cover the #2's.

Granted, the hold out / money issue could be ugly.. no doubt about it. But comparing player for player, talent for talent, it's NOT even close at this point in their careers. Revis is way ahead of Timmons. That's not a knock on Timmons either given the position switch. It's simply saying that a great player, is better than a good player. Who knows ... later in their career, Timmons could make this a legitimate argument. But at this point, it's not.

jj28west
06-05-2010, 07:50 PM
I think this holdout will be ugly and I can see both sides ... Revis' and the Jets.

However, I would choose Revis over Timmons any day and twice on Sundays.. I really don't see how anybody wouldn't...

Timmons is a good player ... heck, he might turn into a great player..

Revis is already a great player. He is at a whole different level than Timmons at this stage of their careers regardless of their positions. A fair comparison would be Revis vs Patrick Willis. Not Revis vs. Timmons.

Revis is on pace to be that 'Champ Bailey' "lockdown" corner for the next several years... The same "lockdown" corner that "experts" say can no longer exist. Revis can take the Randy Moss', Reggie Waynes, Larry Fitzgeralds of the world and completely shut them down one-on-one. That is soooo rare in today's NFL (given the rules) it's incredible. It gives the Jets so much defensive flexibility including single covering the NFL's best receivers and then double teaming their opponents 2nd best receiver and/or tight end. While other teams have to double cover the number #1, and single cover the #2's.

Granted, the hold out / money issue could be ugly.. no doubt about it. But comparing player for player, talent for talent, it's NOT even close at this point in their careers. Revis is way ahead of Timmons. That's not a knock on Timmons either given the position switch. It's simply saying that a great player, is better than a good player. Who knows ... later in their career, Timmons could make this a legitimate argument. But at this point, it's not.

Well said

If we agree that the QB is the most important position on offense what would be the most critical position on defense? DE?, Inside Linebacker? For reasons mentioned above a CB like Deion Sanders gave his teams incredible flexibility.

hawaiiansteel
06-06-2010, 02:48 AM
I think this holdout will be ugly and I can see both sides ... Revis' and the Jets.

However, I would choose Revis over Timmons any day and twice on Sundays.. I really don't see how anybody wouldn't...

Timmons is a good player ... heck, he might turn into a great player..

Revis is already a great player. He is at a whole different level than Timmons at this stage of their careers regardless of their positions. A fair comparison would be Revis vs Patrick Willis. Not Revis vs. Timmons.

Revis is on pace to be that 'Champ Bailey' "lockdown" corner for the next several years... The same "lockdown" corner that "experts" say can no longer exist. Revis can take the Randy Moss', Reggie Waynes, Larry Fitzgeralds of the world and completely shut them down one-on-one. That is soooo rare in today's NFL (given the rules) it's incredible. It gives the Jets so much defensive flexibility including single covering the NFL's best receivers and then double teaming their opponents 2nd best receiver and/or tight end. While other teams have to double cover the number #1, and single cover the #2's.

Granted, the hold out / money issue could be ugly.. no doubt about it. But comparing player for player, talent for talent, it's NOT even close at this point in their careers. Revis is way ahead of Timmons. That's not a knock on Timmons either given the position switch. It's simply saying that a great player, is better than a good player. Who knows ... later in their career, Timmons could make this a legitimate argument. But at this point, it's not.


you are absolutely correct, Darrelle Revis is probably the best shut-down CB in the NFL right now...

but would the Steelers be willing to pay Revis in the neighborhood of $15 million/year?
is any non-QB worth that kind of money?

jj28west
06-06-2010, 10:21 AM
you are absolutely correct, Darrelle Revis is probably the best shut-down CB in the NFL right now...

but would the Steelers be willing to pay Revis in the neighborhood of $15 million/year?
is any non-QB worth that kind of money?

I agree...based on past history I think the Steelers would have let him walk or if they saw something earlier, try to lock him in. At the same time the players are not honoring these countracts and who am I to question their decision.

What happens if the game on defense is moving to this where the CB in Oakland has set the baseline that others are measured against? Having said that I also think as of today there are only a handful of CB's that have earned this designation.

It seems that there are good arguements both ways on this one.

Oviedo
06-06-2010, 10:54 AM
I think this holdout will be ugly and I can see both sides ... Revis' and the Jets.

However, I would choose Revis over Timmons any day and twice on Sundays.. I really don't see how anybody wouldn't...

Timmons is a good player ... heck, he might turn into a great player..

Revis is already a great player. He is at a whole different level than Timmons at this stage of their careers regardless of their positions. A fair comparison would be Revis vs Patrick Willis. Not Revis vs. Timmons.

Revis is on pace to be that 'Champ Bailey' "lockdown" corner for the next several years... The same "lockdown" corner that "experts" say can no longer exist. Revis can take the Randy Moss', Reggie Waynes, Larry Fitzgeralds of the world and completely shut them down one-on-one. That is soooo rare in today's NFL (given the rules) it's incredible. It gives the Jets so much defensive flexibility including single covering the NFL's best receivers and then double teaming their opponents 2nd best receiver and/or tight end. While other teams have to double cover the number #1, and single cover the #2's.

Granted, the hold out / money issue could be ugly.. no doubt about it. But comparing player for player, talent for talent, it's NOT even close at this point in their careers. Revis is way ahead of Timmons. That's not a knock on Timmons either given the position switch. It's simply saying that a great player, is better than a good player. Who knows ... later in their career, Timmons could make this a legitimate argument. But at this point, it's not.


you are absolutely correct, Darrelle Revis is probably the best shut-down CB in the NFL right now...

but would the Steelers be willing to pay Revis in the neighborhood of $15 million/year?
is any non-QB worth that kind of money?


Definitely not worth $15M in our defense. LeBeau does not play his scheme in a way that requires putting CBs on an island. The key to our defense is LBs and NT not CB. Not all defenses are the same.

$15M for any non-QB is a cap killer. Not one except a top 5 QB is worth that.

Prok
06-06-2010, 12:18 PM
I think Revis is the best CB in the game as well.

Question: If we had drafted Revis, do you think LeBeau would be putting him in the #1 WR's face every play like Ryan does? Or would we see him giving 10 yard cushions and playing zone as Ike does for us?

williar
06-06-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't have a problem with guys like Revis and C. Johnson holding out. These guys are embarking on the prime of their careers, the height of their earning power. If they don't get their money now, they may not ever see an opportunity like this again.

I think Revis deserves to be the highest paid corner. He is that good, as well as Chris Johnson. The NFL is such a "what have you done for me today" business. You are one significant injury away from being on the scrap heap (see Leon Washington). Their careers are too short and they risk their lives playing such a violent game we all love.

I know you can't pay everybody, but many of them deserve to be paid what they command. The NFL rakes in obscene amounts of money on the labor of these players. No one is paying to see Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder.

As far as the Revis Timmons debate, Revis all day..... I shudder to think what our defense would have been like with Revis opposite Ike Taylor. With the NFL gone pass happy, a shutdown corner is way more valuable than a linebacker.

plainnasty
06-06-2010, 11:14 PM
We did not have the choice between Revis or Timmons. The J-e-t-s Jets leaped frogged us and snagged Revis.


Chucktown


:tt2


i know, had Revis been available to us we would have undoubtedly drafted him instead of Timmons.

Thank God for the NY Jets leapfrogging us, huh? :D

the Jets ship is sinking, they are facing a similar contract problem with Nick Mangold...
Ed Bouchette claims that we would have drafted Timmons even if Revis were available:

Brent: This is a while ago but do you remember if there was talk of trading up to get Revis in the 07 draft? I remember hearing we were looking at him and he went one spot ahead of us. We sure could use him now.

Ed Bouchette: Yes, that is one who got away. But I have news for you, MIke Tomlin and Kevin Colbert were going to draft Lawrence Timmons even if Revis had not been drafted by then.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10012/10 ... z0q8Jer1nY (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10012/1027673-66.stm#ixzz0q8Jer1nY)

phillyesq
06-07-2010, 09:15 AM
Phill,y you make it sound like Timmons stinks... He is a very good player and will have a great year.

If Timmons held out now, what leverage does he have? He is still more potential than performance, IMO.

Revis is an absolute stud. I'd prefer an absolute stud over somebody whose performance has yet to meet his potential.

ikestops85
06-07-2010, 12:25 PM
I think Revis is the best CB in the game as well.

Question: If we had drafted Revis, do you think LeBeau would be putting him in the #1 WR's face every play like Ryan does? Or would we see him giving 10 yard cushions and playing zone as Ike does for us?

Excellent question. I for one don't think Revis would be the star he is today if he were drafted by the Steelers. He would have been considered very good but not great.

ramblinjim
06-07-2010, 12:34 PM
I'd take my chances with Revis, he's scary good at a hugely important position on the "D". I think it would be neat to see what DL would do with a bad @ss corner like Revis. He played with Night Train Lane, you know it's in his blood somewhere to use a corner that gets up in faces and beats up on the receiver for the first five yards.

hawaiiansteel
06-08-2010, 04:09 PM
I'd take my chances with Revis, he's scary good at a hugely important position on the "D". I think it would be neat to see what DL would do with a bad @ss corner like Revis. He played with Night Train Lane, you know it's in his blood somewhere to use a corner that gets up in faces and beats up on the receiver for the first five yards.


I'm not arguing who is the better player, Revis obviously is. But would we ever give him the $16 million/year he is asking for? I highly doubt it, which means we would have to let Revis leave via free agency while Timmons will be easy to re-sign and keep for the long-term.



Updated: June 8, 2010

Sources: Jets, Revis still far apart

By Rich Cimini
ESPNNewYork.com


FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Darrelle Revis returned to the New York Jets' practice field Tuesday morning, but he still doesn't have a new contract -- and the two sides remain far apart in negotiations, according to league sources.

Revis is on record as saying he wants to be the highest-paid cornerback in the NFL, seeking to eclipse Nnamdi Asomugha's current deal with the Oakland Raiders. Asomugha is making $16.5 million in the second year of a three-year, $45.3 million contract. Revis is believed asking for at least $16 million per year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/ ... id=5263622 (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5263622)

ramblinjim
06-08-2010, 05:00 PM
I'd take my chances with Revis, he's scary good at a hugely important position on the "D". I think it would be neat to see what DL would do with a bad @ss corner like Revis. He played with Night Train Lane, you know it's in his blood somewhere to use a corner that gets up in faces and beats up on the receiver for the first five yards.


I'm not arguing who is the better player, Revis obviously is. But would we ever give him the $16 million/year he is asking for? I highly doubt it, which means we would have to let Revis leave via free agency while Timmons will be easy to re-sign and keep for the long-term.



Updated: June 8, 2010

Sources: Jets, Revis still far apart

By Rich Cimini
ESPNNewYork.com


FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Darrelle Revis returned to the New York Jets' practice field Tuesday morning, but he still doesn't have a new contract -- and the two sides remain far apart in negotiations, according to league sources.

Revis is on record as saying he wants to be the highest-paid cornerback in the NFL, seeking to eclipse Nnamdi Asomugha's current deal with the Oakland Raiders. Asomugha is making $16.5 million in the second year of a three-year, $45.3 million contract. Revis is believed asking for at least $16 million per year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/ ... id=5263622 (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5263622)


Oh no! I'm sorry, I didn't word that well. My opinion is if you have Revis and Timmons, I would have taken my chances with Revis even "knowing then what you know now" because of how good he's been. I can't reconcile giving any non-franchise quarterback $16M a year.

flippy
06-08-2010, 05:05 PM
If Revis is worth $16M+/yr, what is a healthy Troy P worth?

How bout a recommitted Ben?

NJ-STEELER
06-08-2010, 06:25 PM
doesn't Rex run some of the same zone blitz scheme?

i see no issues revis would have had here


lebeau has tweeked his system for a talent like troy, i'm sure he would have dug up some schemes exploiting revis' talents

hawaiiansteel
06-16-2010, 11:03 PM
let's say the Steelers had drafted Revis and were now in this situation, do you think we would pay Revis this kind of money that he's asking for?


Updated: June 16, 2010

Jets' Ryan, Revis clear the air

By Rich Cimini
ESPNNewYork.com


EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- All is right between Rex Ryan and Darrelle Revis, according to the New York Jets' coach and his star cornerback.

As expected, Ryan met Tuesday night with Revis to discuss his highly publicized mini-protest Monday at minicamp. Ryan told ESPNNewYork.com on Wednesday morning that he's satisfied with Revis' explanation on why he sat out a few plays at the end of the morning practice.

Ryan, in a phone interview, called it "a great talk. It's funny because, when it's a football thing, we definitely see eye to eye. He knows what I expect of him and vice versa. We definitely see eye to eye."

Later, addressing the media after a minicamp practice at the new Meadowlands stadium, Ryan said he told Revis that he's counting on him to be a team leader.

"The great thing is, he never has to apologize to me. Just go out, be yourself and that will be good enough for me."

Revis created a firestorm by telling reporters that he asked out of practice as a way to make a statement about being unhappy with stalled contract negotiations. He also said he was light-headed, insisting that, too, was a factor.

Ryan was somewhat evasive when asked if Revis mentioned the contract situation as a reason for sitting out.

"He told me the same thing, that he was light-headed," Ryan said of the one-hour meeting. "That was not an exaggeration. The other part of it was, he definitely ... That's not who he is. He's a leader. Nobody works harder than Revis, with the exception of Mark Sanchez. That's who he is. That's what we talked about.

"The great thing is, he never has to apologize to me. Just go out, be yourself and that will be good enough for me."

Revis echoed Ryan's sentiment, calling it a "great conversation. We wanted to get on the same page. We got a little off-page and I skipped a couple of chapters in the book."

Curiously, Revis said they didn't talk directly about Monday's incident, but he added, "He wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything out of character."

Ryan touched on the controversy after practice, saying, "For him, that's out of character and we spoke about those things."

Revis said he's committed to the Jets, but he stopped short of saying he will be at training camp. On Tuesday, he said he wanted to meet with Ryan because "this is the beginning of stuff turning bad. ... We'll try to see eye to eye and do it the right way."
Revis, perhaps unwittingly, put his coach in a difficult spot Monday. Ryan found out from reporters about the protest. Some within the organization were upset that it went down that way.

Revis suggested that he told secondary coach Dennis Thurman, but Thurman told ESPNNewYork.com Tuesday that Revis never mentioned anything about the sit-out being contract-related.

"I actually said, 'Is this legitimate?'" Thurman said. "He goes, 'Yeah.' Any statement he might have been trying to make, he wasn't making it as far as I was concerned. If he had another agenda, you'll have to ask him. To me, there was nothing behind it."

The two sides are trying to renegotiate Revis' contract, which has three years remaining, but they're far apart. Revis wants to be the highest-paid cornerback in the league, seeking at least $16 million a year. The Jets are believed to be offering about $10 million per year, but with no guaranteed money, sources said. Revis called that an "insult."

The fans seem to be on Revis' side -- at least based on the reaction from the announced crowd of 12,000 at the new $1.6 billion stadium. Whenever he appeared on the giant video screen, the fans cheered.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/ ... id=5292003 (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5292003)

RuthlessBurgher
06-17-2010, 10:14 AM
If the offer of $10 million per year with no guaranteed money is true, then that is an insult. A team could offer someone $900 trillion dollars per year with no guaranteed money and cut him tomorrow and owe him nothing. It is all about the size of the signing bonus these days. Guaranteed money is the only protection that a player has in case they suffer a catastrophic injury.

fezziwig
06-17-2010, 11:10 AM
Phill,y you make it sound like Timmons stinks... He is a very good player and will have a great year.

If Timmons held out now, what leverage does he have? He is still more potential than performance, IMO.

Revis is an absolute stud. I'd prefer an absolute stud over somebody whose performance has yet to meet his potential.


I have to agree about potential vs performance. Potential doesn't make the tackles or help the team. IMHO, Timmons never lived up to his number one selection. He has had enough bench time to develope into his position and for the game and at best, he's an average player.

Oviedo
06-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Phill,y you make it sound like Timmons stinks... He is a very good player and will have a great year.

If Timmons held out now, what leverage does he have? He is still more potential than performance, IMO.

Revis is an absolute stud. I'd prefer an absolute stud over somebody whose performance has yet to meet his potential.


I have to agree about potential vs performance. Potential doesn't make the tackles or help the team. IMHO, Timmons never lived up to his number one selection. He has had enough bench time to develope into his position and for the game and at best, he's an average player.

Timmons is far from an average player. He is a very good player and IMO this season he stars.

RuthlessBurgher
06-17-2010, 12:33 PM
Phill,y you make it sound like Timmons stinks... He is a very good player and will have a great year.

If Timmons held out now, what leverage does he have? He is still more potential than performance, IMO.

Revis is an absolute stud. I'd prefer an absolute stud over somebody whose performance has yet to meet his potential.


I have to agree about potential vs performance. Potential doesn't make the tackles or help the team. IMHO, Timmons never lived up to his number one selection. He has had enough bench time to develope into his position and for the game and at best, he's an average player.

Timmons is far from an average player. He is a very good player and IMO this season he stars.

:Agree Average inside linebackers are not able to get 7 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, and 4 passes defensed in 13 starts last season.

Most 3-4 teams would be jumping for joy if they got those kinds of sack/FF/PD numbers from their outside linebackers, and this guy is doing it from the inside, where he has a lot of other responsibilities beyond just pinning his ears back and rushing the passer.

fezziwig
06-21-2010, 04:34 PM
I hope you guys are right.