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StarSpangledSteeler
06-02-2010, 06:36 AM
Every year there are one or two surprise cuts. I'm talking about a guy(s) most of us would say is a near "lock" that ends up not making the final 53. Tomlin has shown a propensity to keep his draft choices over mediocre veterans and i think that pattern will continue. Here are a few names i believe could be on the bubble. Again i'm not saying they are absolutely going to get cut but i believe they are in danger:

McHugh - Spaeth is a better pass catcher than McHugh, and if Miller or Spaeth got hurt i believe we could/would limit our offensive sets to the single TE formations and get by just fine. So what is his real value here? I view him as an adequate blocker but he is certainly not plowing open holes "Dan Kreider-style". We could go with just the two TE's (Miller, Spaeth) and either a running type fullback (Summers, Dwyer) or a true blocking back (D. Taylor) and get by just fine.

Summers - With the drafting of Dwyer, i'm failing to see the necessity of Summers. He's not that good of a road grader fullback and he's not quick or strong enough to play halfback in a pinch. Plus we have some nice depth at RB now which could very easily make him expendable/replaceable.

Gay - If he's so bad that we're bringing in McFadden and anointing him the number two CB even before camp begins, what is Gay's future with this team? A perennial back up? What does he honestly bring to the table that our young(er) guys couldn't do within a year? Very little. I think Lewis, Burnett, and possibly even Butler could be at Gay's level by mid season, given any morsel of real game experience. He's not very physical, he's not a ballhawk, and he's not good at special teams. That's a recipe for the fast track out of Pittsburgh.

Eason - There are really only two tasks we require of our DE's. Stuff the run. And occassionally put a little pressure on the QB. Eason is average at both of these skillsets and i don't think his upside is very high. I don't see him as starter material so why keep him around when Harris could give you about the same thing? I realize Eason brings a little bit of experience, and he is improving, but overall he brings nothing spectacular. He could be gone in favor of Harris or even Worthington if he shows good technique.

Warren - For the love of Pete, will someone else on this team please learn to long snap already? How hard could it be? Seriously? It's a skill. That's it. Just practice a few extra hours a day. Done. If Pouncey can pick it up quick enough we can save a roster spot for the entire season. That would be huge.

Logan - Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his return abilities, especially after watching Davenport two years ago, but the problem with Logan is he can't get on the field offensively. He's not beating out any of our RB's or WR's, especially with the young talent we just drafted. All he does is return kicks and that is just not acceptable anymore. I would be very surprised if Sanders/Brown were not just as productive as Logan in the return game or at least close enough. Logan is in serious jeopardy.

Hartwig - Before the uproar begins, let me say i do believe Hartwig is a near lock. However, i also believe the whole "Pouncey must begin at RG talk is a bunch of crap". Let someone else make the line calls. We just hired a new OL coach, who has no attachment to Hartwig. I fully expect Pouncey to compete for the starting center position in training camp and has a very good chance of winning it. The ONLY reason Hartwig is on our roster is because our younger players have not developed yet. Hartwig is gone next year for sure. To cast him off a year early is not out of the question. He is a terrible center. Just because he started last year does not make him starting center quality (see William Gay).

NCSteeler
06-02-2010, 06:43 AM
I think Gay will stick around at nickel. The may be switching one of the other corners to safety. I also think with a renewed emphasis on the run McHugh will stick, he is a much better blocker then Spaeth.

I also think if the season go poorly Hartwig will finish the year on the bench.

stlrz d
06-02-2010, 07:40 AM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

SteelBucks
06-02-2010, 07:46 AM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

I agree, Warren isn't going anywhere. Many believe it's a wasted roster spot until it costs you a game.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
06-02-2010, 08:42 AM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

I agree, Warren isn't going anywhere. Many believe it's a wasted roster spot until it costs you a game.

Has it already cost us a game? Maybe that one where Deebo volunteered and snapped it over Sep's head (maybe for a safety)?

Maybe that was just a bad dream ...

ramblinjim
06-02-2010, 09:20 AM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

I agree, Warren isn't going anywhere. Many believe it's a wasted roster spot until it costs you a game.

Has it already cost us a game? Maybe that one where Deebo volunteered and snapped it over Sep's head (maybe for a safety)?

Maybe that was just a bad dream ...


I wish that was a bad dream........ :cry:

ramblinjim
06-02-2010, 09:27 AM
Suprise Cuts:

1.) Hartwig - I actually think Legursky is going to take the #1 Center job this season, Pouncey still plays a year at Right Guard and we have three big strong dudes on the interior line this year. Maybe next year Pouncey and Legursky switch places?

2.) Sonny Harris - Not exactly some crazy massive surprise here. Eason stays because he knows the system and he's reasonably dependable. I'm thinking that Doug Worthington plays good ball in the pre-season and gets the nod over Harris whom we all thought so highly last year.

3.) Arnez Battle - This one would shock me too. But I think the two drafted wide receivers are going to show enough upside during pre-season and enough grit on special teams to move out the guy that we signed to a three year deal this off-season. It is highly un-likely that the Steelers would move Battle out in favor of two un-tested rookies but I could see how this can actually play out.

RuthlessBurgher
06-02-2010, 10:19 AM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.

papillon
06-02-2010, 10:54 AM
For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

The James Harrison faux pas was a lack of preparation by the coaching staff, not the fact that long snapping is so difficult to perform.

Pappy

flippy
06-02-2010, 11:49 AM
For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

The James Harrison faux pas was a lack of preparation by the coaching staff, not the fact that long snapping is so difficult to perform.

Pappy

It's the speed and location that's tough and if you lose half a second or a second, you risk having blocks.

And you have to be consistent and that's not easy either.

SteelBucks
06-02-2010, 12:21 PM
For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

The James Harrison faux pas was a lack of preparation by the coaching staff, not the fact that long snapping is so difficult to perform.

Pappy

Stan Savarn had Jeff Reed on his program a couple of seasons ago and they talked about this very thing. Reed said they experimented with position players but it never worked. The big issue was timing....especially on field goals and PAT's. He said high snaps, low snaps, placement of the laces (laces out!), etc. kills the timing and usually results in failed attempts.

I for one hate losing games because of special teams, so I don't have a problem with reserving a spot for a long snapper. If that means we don't keep 15 TE's on the active roster, so be it. :)

steelblitz
06-02-2010, 12:50 PM
We could only hope that Hartwig gets cut. He and Essex were the worst, not opinion FACT, at their respective positions. There will be a slight learning curve for all the O-line with Kugler in his first year. No time like the present to start the young guys. The playbook will most likely be limited early on as well with a backup QB. Work thru the bumps early, work on chemistry and make a late push with Ben.

Slapstick
06-02-2010, 01:08 PM
For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

Pappy


It is hard to believe, but somehow, it is true nonetheless...

StarSpangledSteeler
06-02-2010, 01:43 PM
For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

The James Harrison faux pas was a lack of preparation by the coaching staff, not the fact that long snapping is so difficult to perform.

Pappy

Stan Savarn had Jeff Reed on his program a couple of seasons ago and they talked about this very thing. Reed said they EXPERIMENTED with position players but it never worked. The big issue was timing....especially on field goals and PAT's. He said high snaps, low snaps, placement of the laces (laces out!), etc. kills the timing and usually results in failed attempts.

I for one hate losing games because of special teams, so I don't have a problem with reserving a spot for a long snapper. If that means we don't keep 15 TE's on the active roster, so be it. :)

I'm not disputing the importance, or even the difficulty of long snapping. I'm disputing the notion that only a few naturally gifted athletes on earth are able to accomplish this rare skill. Long snapping is a skill. It can be taught. It can be learned. Greg Warren was not "born" a long snapper. He had to learn it just like anyone else. We keep 4-5 back up O-Lineman every year. You can't tell me that if each of those guys practiced long snapping 3 hours per day, with coaching, one of them would not emerge/develop into an adequate option. That is part of coaching, evaluation before you draft players, and training them after you draft players. When they say "experimented" they mean test out a couple players and see if they're naturally good at it, if not, forget it. I'm saying put some "Peyton Manning-like" practice into your skillset and save the team a roster spot.

StarSpangledSteeler
06-02-2010, 01:51 PM
I think Gay will stick around at nickel. The may be switching one of the other corners to safety. I also think with a renewed emphasis on the run McHugh will stick, he is a much better blocker then Spaeth.

I also think if the season go poorly Hartwig will finish the year on the bench.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Gay may very well make the team, but my point is two fold...

1) What is Gay's future? I don't think he is or ever will be starter material. He will be a perenial back-up, nickle/dime corner. He lost his starting job because, quite frankly, he sucks. So why keep a player that sucks? Just because you have no better option? No. Go out and get a better option (which is what we did in the last two drafts).

2) Are you willing to give up a potential like Butler to keep Gay? I am not. I would rather gamble on a tall strong fast kid like Butler and let him go through the growing pains/learning curve than watching Gay get beat year after year, hoping that he magically improves.

StarSpangledSteeler
06-02-2010, 01:58 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.

StarSpangledSteeler
06-02-2010, 02:05 PM
[quote="ramblinjim"]Suprise Cuts:


2.) Sonny Harris - Not exactly some crazy massive surprise here. Eason stays because he knows the system and he's reasonably dependable. I'm thinking that Doug Worthington plays good ball in the pre-season and gets the nod over Harris whom we all thought so highly last year.


See that's the whole reason our lines are in this situation. We keep guys with very little athletic ability or upside starter potential because they "know the system and are reasonably dependable". I realize that every team must have role players but keep the role players who have upside an athleticism who could potentially start one day (ex. Keisel, Harrison) and get rid of the Kirshke, Eason, Hoke crew. In my opinion they should take a serious look at keeping Worthington over Eason.

flippy
06-02-2010, 02:09 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.

Snapping isn't easy. I'd suggest trying it. It's a skill. It's hard to get a fast spiral on a snap and put the laces in the right place. The Olinemen aren't typically skilled with handling a football.

Someone like Hines Ward or ARE or Ben would probably be the most likely to be able to snap it with speed and accuracy, but they aren't gonna risk one of those skill players to do it.

The right size/skill player would likely be a TE. Someone like McHugh or Miller should give it a whirl.

One of the centers who handles the ball should try it. Hartwig, Pouncey, Legursky, Urbik, but I'm sure the Steelers thought of it and tried it and these guys just can't do it.

I had a friend that could do it really well in high school. Most guys couldn't even get a slow spiral in the vicinity of where it needed to go.

cruzer8
06-02-2010, 02:17 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.

They're practicing their O line positions in the event injury means they have to play. Back ups also have to play on the scout team. So in their "free time" our defense is beating the daylights out of them.

flippy
06-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.

They're practicing their O line positions in the event injury means they have to play. Back ups also have to play on the scout team. So in their "free time" our defense is beating the daylights out of them.

Not only their positions, but several others to please Coach Positional Flexibility

SteelHoss
06-02-2010, 02:38 PM
Suprise Cuts:

1.) Hartwig - I actually think Legursky is going to take the #1 Center job this season, Pouncey still plays a year at Right Guard and we have three big strong dudes on the interior line this year. Maybe next year Pouncey and Legursky switch places?

2.) Sonny Harris - Not exactly some crazy massive surprise here. Eason stays because he knows the system and he's reasonably dependable. I'm thinking that Doug Worthington plays good ball in the pre-season and gets the nod over Harris whom we all thought so highly last year.

3.) Arnez Battle - This one would shock me too. But I think the two drafted wide receivers are going to show enough upside during pre-season and enough grit on special teams to move out the guy that we signed to a three year deal this off-season. It is highly un-likely that the Steelers would move Battle out in favor of two un-tested rookies but I could see how this can actually play out.

:Agree You just might have something with your Legursky theory. Doug has improved every season. He made a big step forward last season and he's been 1st team in OTAs this spring in the absence of Hartwig. In any event I believe his position as a backup is solid. Additionally, he was at one time learning how to long snap. I have'nt heard what kind of progress he's made with that however.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-02-2010, 02:57 PM
C'mon guys...let's talk some REAL surprise cuts:

1) Hines Ward
Too old and injury prone.

2) James Farrior
Too slow and getting old.

3) Ike Taylor
Not gonna sign him after this season, anyway.

4) Lamarr Woodley
Same as above; besides, we've got all-Worlids now.

5) Troy Polamalu
Tomlin's ticked at him--"He trains away, he can just STAY away."

6) Ben Roethlisberger
They thought it would make a bigger statement to let him come back for awhile, THEN cut him.

flippy
06-02-2010, 03:35 PM
C'mon guys...let's talk some REAL surprise cuts:

1) Hines Ward
Too old and injury prone.

2) James Farrior
Too slow and getting old.


Both of these should be considered, but there's no way they will. They should make these guys renegotiate their contracts. No way they'll play up to them at this point. I hate to say it too.

Oviedo
06-02-2010, 03:40 PM
These would be my surprise cuts:

1. Hartwig--would be a surprise IMO because I doubt Pouncey is ready to take over as a starting center.

2. Matt Spaeth--unlikely because David Johnson doesn't appear to be able to catch a football. I'd like to see McHugh make this roster. He probably a better overall talent than all the TEs not named Heath.

3. Arnez Battle--Do you really take reps away from Emmanual Sanders to keep this guy around primarily for special teams. I'd rather see Sanders getting the reps.

4. Sunny Harris--do we really give up on a player we wanted to keep last year but lost and got back as soon as we could to keep Eason. I don't think so.

StarSpangledSteeler
06-02-2010, 04:41 PM
These would be my surprise cuts:

1. Hartwig--would be a surprise IMO because I doubt Pouncey is ready to take over as a starting center.

2. Matt Spaeth--unlikely because David Johnson doesn't appear to be able to catch a football. I'd like to see McHugh make this roster. He probably a better overall talent than all the TEs not named Heath.

3. Arnez Battle--Do you really take reps away from Emmanual Sanders to keep this guy around primarily for special teams. I'd rather see Sanders getting the reps.

4. Sunny Harris--do we really give up on a player we wanted to keep last year but lost and got back as soon as we could to keep Eason. I don't think so.

See, I was going to list Battle but I think I heard that Tomlin says he views him as our primary gunner on special teams as of right now and i think that duality seals it (aside from the contract) (and aside from the fact our new special teams couch brought him over specifically from S.F.). I don' think Everest would stake his initial reputation on Battle, convince the F.O. to sign him, and then cut him in camp.

NJ-STEELER
06-02-2010, 05:06 PM
i'd place my money on logan being cut.


we drafted a couple guys that can return last year and this year and they also play a position

focosteeler
06-02-2010, 06:52 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.

Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.

are you telling me you want their fat asses running down the field trying to tackle someone like cribbs on a punt? a true long snapper is needed. its like asking dixon to work on being the punter and kicker while the first team is practicing. they have their positions that they are best atlet them do that. if you could rely on someone to do both then no team in the nfl would reserve a roster spot for specialists.

Prok
06-02-2010, 07:32 PM
i'd place my money on logan being cut.


we drafted a couple guys that can return last year and this year and they also play a position

Wouldn't upset me at all to see Logan get cut. That would mean that maybe BOTH young WR's have a shot at contributing. I'd love to see us have a draft where most of the players actually make the team.

My gut tells me that either a Worilds or Thad Gibson doesn't pan out for us.

focosteeler
06-03-2010, 03:34 AM
i'd place my money on logan being cut.


we drafted a couple guys that can return last year and this year and they also play a position

Wouldn't upset me at all to see Logan get cut. That would mean that maybe BOTH young WR's have a shot at contributing. I'd love to see us have a draft where most of the players actually make the team.

My gut tells me that either a Worilds or Thad Gibson doesn't pan out for us.

just as long as we get 1 good OLB i'll be happy...if its worilds im gonna be pissed we didn't take sean lee

Discipline of Steel
06-03-2010, 07:09 AM
C'mon guys...let's talk some REAL surprise cuts:

1) Hines Ward
Too old and injury prone.

2) James Farrior
Too slow and getting old.


Both of these should be considered, but there's no way they will. They should make these guys renegotiate their contracts. No way they'll play up to them at this point. I hate to say it too.

yeah but these guys are two of our leaders so they have value in that respect as well...and i dont think Hines is washed up yet, personally

ramblinjim
06-03-2010, 07:12 AM
C'mon guys...let's talk some REAL surprise cuts:

1) Hines Ward
Too old and injury prone.

2) James Farrior
Too slow and getting old.


Both of these should be considered, but there's no way they will. They should make these guys renegotiate their contracts. No way they'll play up to them at this point. I hate to say it too.


Flippy, I don't disagree with you but it will still be a sad day when these two guys realize they can no longer play. Hines has been my favorite Steeler for several years now.

Steelerphile
06-03-2010, 08:09 AM
i'd place my money on logan being cut.


we drafted a couple guys that can return last year and this year and they also play a position

Either some people don't keep up with the Steelers news or pretend not to. Logan can play a position. RB. Can do it quite well as a matter of fact.

If Sanders or Brown can average over 26 yds a KO then they will probably be kept. But Brown tore up the MAC conference where most of the players he went against not only won't be drafted into the NFL but won't make a PS. That doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL.

However, Return aces like Willie Reid never did anything and Logan beat out Joe Burnett and Mike Wallace last season for the return role and they also had strong credentials from college as return specialists.

Logan being cut would not be a big surprise since most message board posters seem to want him gone. It will be a bigger surprise if he is kept. But it will not be a surprise to me if he is among the league leaders at returns somewhere in the NFL next year.

papillon
06-03-2010, 08:11 AM
C'mon guys...let's talk some REAL surprise cuts:

1) Hines Ward
Too old and injury prone.

2) James Farrior
Too slow and getting old.


Both of these should be considered, but there's no way they will. They should make these guys renegotiate their contracts. No way they'll play up to them at this point. I hate to say it too.


If the Steelers hadn't made the trade with Santonio the Ward cut, renegotiated contract and reduced role would be somewhat palatable. The Steelers need him to have a biog year this year while the young receiving corps learn the game. Ben is going to have increased numbers of INTs this year due to miscommunication between him and the WRs, it's inevitable.

Farrior is probably playing his last season with the Steelers and will see his role diminished over the course of the year, IMO. Since, there is no salary cap the Steelers won't try and renegotiate any contracts for aging players, IMO.

If either of these players were to be cut it would be a surprise for sure. I don';t see it happening though, it isn't the way the Steelers operate.

Pappy

Oviedo
06-03-2010, 08:47 AM
i'd place my money on logan being cut.


we drafted a couple guys that can return last year and this year and they also play a position

Either some people don't keep up with the Steelers news or pretend not to. Logan can play a position. RB. Can do it quite well as a matter of fact.

If Sanders or Brown can average over 26 yds a KO then they will probably be kept. But Brown tore up the MAC conference where most of the players he went against not only won't be drafted into the NFL but won't make a PS. That doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL.

However, Return aces like Willie Reid never did anything and Logan beat out Joe Burnett and Mike Wallace last season for the return role and they also had strong credentials from college as return specialists.

Logan being cut would not be a big surprise since most message board posters seem to want him gone. It will be a bigger surprise if he is kept. But it will not be a surprise to me if he is among the league leaders at returns somewhere in the NFL next year.

I would not think there is any chance Logan gets cut "since most message board posters seem to want him gone." If he gets cut it will be because he doesn't offer enough beyond returns. He may be listed as a RB but despite being active got essentially no carries or no receptions out of the backfield to even be noticed. He does play on kick off teams but I don't think he made a single tackle.

I think with guys like Sanders, Burnett, and Antonio Brown who can offer more in other phases of the game it will be difficult saving a roster position for Logan. Not sure we have that luxury when we may have to keep an extra WR, LB or DB.

Even the Browns with Joe Cribbs and the Bears with Devin Hester have had to find ways to get both those players on the field in other roles versus the luxury of just being a returner.

Steelerphile
06-03-2010, 09:05 AM
But here is my list of potential surprise cuts. They won't all be cut but I think someone on here will go.

Mewelde Moore: He was not as effective last year in the 3rd down role as in 2008. Possibly they decide that one of the younger players or even (gasp!) Stefan Logan shows more speed and explosiveness in the offense in that role.

Trai Essex or Ramon Foster: If Essex and Foster lose the starting RG position to Pouncey and return to backup roles, one of the younger players, Hills or Chris Scott or new acquistion, Jonathan Scott could move ahead.

Kraig Urbik: I think he needs to make a big jump from year one to year two to solidify a spot. We'll see how much work he has put in during the offseason at camp. If he has been slacking, he might be gone.

Thaddeus Gibson: I'm sure he has potential but he might not be ready to make the team. I think Worilds is a lock.

Keyaron Fox: If the younger players look great and either Lindsey Witten makes a big splash or Patrick Bailey shows great improvement, could they consider cutting Fox? I don't think Farrior would be cut, but I don't rule it out entirely.

Will Allen: He's a journeyman type player. He's been a spot starter and not been particularly distinguished, I don't think. He's played seven years and I can't recall noticing him in a game. If Mundy develops and they find something in Butler or another young player, possibly Allen does not make it.

Steelerphile
06-03-2010, 09:17 AM
i'd place my money on logan being cut.


we drafted a couple guys that can return last year and this year and they also play a position

Either some people don't keep up with the Steelers news or pretend not to. Logan can play a position. RB. Can do it quite well as a matter of fact.

If Sanders or Brown can average over 26 yds a KO then they will probably be kept. But Brown tore up the MAC conference where most of the players he went against not only won't be drafted into the NFL but won't make a PS. That doesn't mean he can't do it in the NFL.

However, Return aces like Willie Reid never did anything and Logan beat out Joe Burnett and Mike Wallace last season for the return role and they also had strong credentials from college as return specialists.

Logan being cut would not be a big surprise since most message board posters seem to want him gone. It will be a bigger surprise if he is kept. But it will not be a surprise to me if he is among the league leaders at returns somewhere in the NFL next year.

I would not think there is any chance Logan gets cut "since most message board posters seem to want him gone." If he gets cut it will be because he doesn't offer enough beyond returns. He may be listed as a RB but despite being active got essentially no carries or no receptions out of the backfield to even be noticed. He does play on kick off teams but I don't think he made a single tackle.

I think with guys like Sanders, Burnett, and Antonio Brown who can offer more in other phases of the game it will be difficult saving a roster position for Logan. Not sure we have that luxury when we may have to keep an extra WR, LB or DB.

Even the Browns with Joe Cribbs and the Bears with Devin Hester have had to find ways to get both those players on the field in other roles versus the luxury of just being a returner.

I said it would not be a surprise he got cut, not that whether message board posters influence who they keep.

Last year he didn't get any touches at RB, mainly because they had him out of position
at WR. This year they moved him to RB. So, possibly he could get some touches this year at RB. I think you missed that part.

Also if Brown is a 6th receiver, it is possible that he would do little more than retunrs and cover kicks also in his rookie season. Sanders and Burnett will likely play bigger roles

Oviedo
06-03-2010, 09:25 AM
But here is my list of potential surprise cuts. They won't all be cut but I think someone on here will go.

Mewelde Moore: He was not as effective last year in the 3rd down role as in 2008. Possibly they decide that one of the younger players or even (gasp!) Stefan Logan shows more speed and explosiveness in the offense in that role.

Trai Essex or Ramon Foster: If Essex and Foster lose the starting RG position to Pouncey and return to backup roles, one of the younger players, Hills or Chris Scott or new acquistion, Jonathan Scott could move ahead.

Kraig Urbik: I think he needs to make a big jump from year one to year two to solidify a spot. We'll see how much work he has put in during the offseason at camp. If he has been slacking, he might be gone.

Thaddeus Gibson: I'm sure he has potential but he might not be ready to make the team. I think Worilds is a lock.

Keyaron Fox: If the younger players look great and either Lindsey Witten makes a big splash or Patrick Bailey shows great improvement, could they consider cutting Fox? I don't think Farrior would be cut, but I don't rule it out entirely.

Will Allen: He's a journeyman type player. He's been a spot starter and not been particularly distinguished, I don't think. He's played seven years and I can't recall noticing him in a game. If Mundy develops and they find something in Butler or another young player, possibly Allen does not make it.


I also would not be surprised to see Ramon Foster cut. Trai Essex will be a harder decision because he is back up OT. If they feel comfortable with just Jonathon Scott as the sole back up OT them Essex may be at risk but I think they will ultimately prefer having both on the roster.

I agree about Moore. If Mendy can do thrid down, what really is Moore's role? I think Moore gets this one last year because Tomlin clearly likes the guy but I agree that he was not as effective last year as in 2008.

flippy
06-03-2010, 10:17 AM
Also if Brown is a 6th receiver...

This reminds me of everyone wanting Troy Edwards and Plaxico to be ahead of the unheralded Hines Ward.

Tyler Grisham is slow, small, and being overlooked just like Ward, IMHO.

He catches everything thrown in his vicinity. He's crafty at getting open. He can get YAC. And he'll throw his body around carelessly to lay someone out which he did regularly in college.

Tyler is a Hines Ward in a Wes Welker frame.

I'm not ready yet to put Sanders or Brown ahead of him on my depth chart. I even think he could bring competition to ARE as our #3 if given a fair shot. Although we could be a Hines hammy away from seeing if Grisham could do it. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Don't yinz want a receiver with great hands finally?

Tomlinator
06-03-2010, 10:39 AM
I'll throw in my :2c , though none will be much different then discussed already.

1) Gay - he might look ok in the nickel, but I'd rather keep someone with more upside that can help out if Ike does not re-sign. I still have hope for Burnett, Lewis, and the rook Butler.
2) Eason - Looking to the future here because I really have nothing against the guy. If any one of the younger guys can show something during camp, I'd sacrifice him to nurture a potential young starter as opposed to keeping an older backup.
3) Gibson - yeah, he was just drafted, and in a later round. No real reason other then playing the percentages - for every Lamar Woodley there is a Bruce Davis. I guess a late round pick getting cut is not a surprise.

I think Battle stays. He's a guy who could step in and provide a vet presence if Hines stays/gets gimpy this year. Hartwig won't go anywhere, unless his shoulder does not heal or he gets it injured again (would they injury settle him if it came to it?).

ikestops85
06-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Also if Brown is a 6th receiver...

This reminds me of everyone wanting Troy Edwards and Plaxico to be ahead of the unheralded Hines Ward.

Tyler Grisham is slow, small, and being overlooked just like Ward, IMHO.

He catches everything thrown in his vicinity. He's crafty at getting open. He can get YAC. And he'll throw his body around carelessly to lay someone out which he did regularly in college.

Tyler is a Hines Ward in a Wes Welker frame.

I'm not ready yet to put Sanders or Brown ahead of him on my depth chart. I even think he could bring competition to ARE as our #3 if given a fair shot. Although we could be a Hines hammy away from seeing if Grisham could do it. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Don't yinz want a receiver with great hands finally?

I would love to have a receiver with great hands. Unfortunately my memory of Grisham is him dropping the ball wide open over the middle on a crucial 3rd down. I hope he becomes a great receiver ... I have the same hope for Sanders and Brown. My greatest hope is we have the talent evaluators to play and utilize the guys with the most ability and don't let them languish on the bench or practice squad.

My guess for the surprise cuts is Hartwig. We spent our #1 on what some have said is the best center to come along in many years so why not play him at center? Mack did a good job starting his rookie year. Mangold was excellent his rookie year. Why can't Pouncey do the same? Is our offense too complicated? :stirpot :lol:

steelblitz
06-03-2010, 02:13 PM
It's really not stirring the pot when you consider that Hartwig started immediately, and they won the SB that year. As you stated, other rooks have done it and played well. Some of the techniques and terminology will probably change with the new coach, so why not start new with Pouncey and your future RG as well.

Again, both Hartwig and Essex were the WORST at their respective positions last year.

Discipline of Steel
06-03-2010, 11:19 PM
I definately agree Hartwig is on a big bubble. The Steelers are just keeping him around so Pouncey doesnt think the position was handed to him. I see no reason to let Pouncey even sniff RG, esp if he is going to be the center next year. Get him in there now with the new coach. Starter Day One.

BradshawsHairdresser
06-03-2010, 11:37 PM
C'mon guys...let's talk some REAL surprise cuts:

1) Hines Ward
Too old and injury prone.

2) James Farrior
Too slow and getting old.


Both of these should be considered, but there's no way they will. They should make these guys renegotiate their contracts. No way they'll play up to them at this point. I hate to say it too.

yeah but these guys are two of our leaders so they have value in that respect as well...and i dont think Hines is washed up yet, personally

I don't either...my post was not meant to be taken seriously--although if any of those players WERE cut, it WOULD be a surprise, wouldn't it?

steelreserve
06-04-2010, 12:17 AM
Najeh Davenport.

Yeah, he's not on the roster yet, but just you wait. We can never make it through a season without signing and cutting him at least twice. We'll find a way to make it happen.

StarSpangledSteeler
06-04-2010, 04:16 AM
I definately agree Hartwig is on a big bubble. The Steelers are just keeping him around so Pouncey doesnt think the position was handed to him. I see no reason to let Pouncey even sniff RG, esp if he is going to be the center next year. Get him in there now with the new coach. Starter Day One.

Thank you! I couldn't agree more.