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hawaiiansteel
05-21-2010, 07:26 PM
from Mark Madden's Blog:


SCOOPS!
Friday 05-21-2010 2:19pm ET


Remember, you heard it here first:

*If the Steelers start the 2010 season 4-0 or 3-1 without the suspended Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich will remain at quarterback. That's right, the recycled washout keeps starting, the $102m man rides the bench. This comes from an unimpeachable source deep inside Steelers HQ.

Have you ever heard anything so stupid? A good season without Roethlisberger would grease the skids for his exit, which - I'm convinced more and more - is what the Steelers ultimately want. When the Steelers slip, it's often on a banana peel of self-righteousness.

If Mike Tomlin goes along with what appears to be an organizational decision, it would highlight his inability to consider the big picture. Players take it one game at a time. Good coaches don't, Starting 4-0 matters a little. Playing well in January matters a lot. You've got to think about Point B when you're at Point A. Leftwich can't win a Super Bowl. Roethlisberger can, and has.

Oh, well...the Steelers will probably start 1-3, anyway.

http://wxdx.com/pages/supergenius.html

Flasteel
05-21-2010, 08:06 PM
"unimpeachable source "? Please. Nobody with any insight, knowledge, or influence would ever engage in such speculation.

There aren't any gimmes in this league, but aside from the game against Baltimore, we start off with a pretty easy schedule. How could anybody legitimately speculate on such a scenario - especially with such a weak body of evidence to support the move?

eniparadoxgma
05-21-2010, 08:12 PM
Dude's an idiot. Is his page really called "supergenius"? You've got to be kidding me.

SidSmythe
05-21-2010, 08:12 PM
I think people make strong statements like this so they sound like they know what they're talking about.

First, this Madden guy is speculating
Second, he knows the Steelers probably won't go 4-0 so he can shoot his mouth off all he wants.
Thirdly, at best...Ben would start when he comes back and maybe Lefty would go back in if Ben lost his first 2 games and looked pretty bad. No way do you sit your franchise QB for an above average at best QB.

Discipline of Steel
05-21-2010, 08:39 PM
He only says this now beause he knows no one will check him come game 5. Weak

HeHateMe
05-21-2010, 09:14 PM
I agree. We will be FINE without Ben. The execution will be better and the offense more consistent. Leftwich will get no credit. The credit will go to the running game, play calling and the defense. We played better with Leftwich in 08 and everyone on the team knew it, INCLUDING Ben.

HeHateMe
05-21-2010, 09:15 PM
If we are 4-0 WHY put Ben back in?
I forsee a Tom Brady/Bledsoe situation emerging for us this coming season. Save this post

Flasteel
05-21-2010, 09:30 PM
If we are 4-0 WHY put Ben back in?
I forsee a Tom Brady/Bledsoe situation emerging for us this coming season. Save this post

I'm sure this thread and many others will be re-introduced to you as the season unfolds. :D

By the way...how would you like it served?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6JPrNHnRVZI/SW5WXZh6soI/AAAAAAAAC9E/zPAPSK8gqJo/s400/eat-crow.jpg

hawaiiansteel
05-21-2010, 09:44 PM
I agree. We will be FINE without Ben. The execution will be better and the offense more consistent. Leftwich will get no credit. The credit will go to the running game, play calling and the defense. We played better with Leftwich in 08 and everyone on the team knew it, INCLUDING Ben.




i seriously doubt that anyone will credit the play calling...remember, our OC is Bruce Arians.

Captain Lemming
05-21-2010, 09:58 PM
Yeah, what a jerk. Madden is still mad about the immacula........wait.......


This is Mark....not "John" Madden....Nevermind.


I think people make strong statements like this so they sound like they know what they're talking about.

First, this Madden guy is speculating
Second, he knows the Steelers probably won't go 4-0 so he can shoot his mouth off all he wants.
Thirdly, at best...Ben would start when he comes back and maybe Lefty would go back in if Ben lost his first 2 games and looked pretty bad. No way do you sit your franchise QB for an above average at best QB.

cruzer8
05-21-2010, 10:57 PM
This is a response to a Lefty ballwasher that someone posted on another forum. I thought it summed things up quite nicely.


The Leftwich ballwashing is getting pretty tiring, even for someone like me that mostly just lurks and reads posts.

For starters, he was 4-1 ( 0-0 technically because he didn't start any of the games), one of the 5 games he threw a pass in was in the loss to the Eagles.

And it's an anomaly because only twice in those games was he in the game during a meaningful amount of time, and one of the times was in a meaningless week 17 game with the division and a first round bye already locked up.

Vs Houston - Leftwich takes his first snap when the game is already 35-3 in the first quarter.
1st possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Houston responds with a TD

2nd possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Harrison and Woodley force and recover a Schaub fumble and Pit gets the ball back on the Houston 28

3rd possession? Lefty throws 2 more incomplete passes, but Pit's already in FG range. FG is made, Houston scores another TD but it's too late, and Lefty kneels.

Leftwich contribution? 4 incomplete passes, all 4 net yards with Lefty undercenter come from 5 handoffs to Mendenhall.

vs Eagles - There's two minutes left and the Eagles are up 9, but Leftwich manages to look pretty competent here. He goes 4 for 7 to move the ball 60 yards against a prevent D, but the possession ends when Lefty takes a 9 yard loss on a sack on 3rd and 1, then throws incomplete on 4th down.

vs Bengals - Leftwich saves the day with a touchdown pass in the final minutes. Except the Steelers were already up 31-10 with under 5 minutes to go in the 4th, Leftwich started out on the Bengals' 34 yard line, and the first player with a hand on the pass was John Joseph who tipped the ball into Ward's hands.

vs Redskins - Lefty's best game as a Steeler. He comes in after halftime when the Steelers are leading 10-6 (due to a Roethlisberger rushing TD mind you) and posts up 129 Yards, contributing to 2 scoring drives including a Leftwich TD pass. During this half, the Steelers D continues to make the skins look incompetent, intercepting Campbell twice and stopping two 4th down attempts in Pit territory, once on the goal line.

vs Browns - A nice Leftwich showing. He comes in mid-drive when Ben gets hurt and he gets to start out in Cleveland territory. He contributes to 3 scoring drives (2 of them when he started out in Cleveland territory) including a rushing TD, to push a 7-0 lead to a 24-0 lead, when the Steelers D completes their rout of the Browns offense with an int return TD.

Leftwich played well, but only in the Redskins game and maybe the Browns game did he have any real impact at all (in two games where the defense had been dominating regardless), and accomplished nothing notable against a prevent D, the only time he came in when the Steelers weren't already leading.

feltdizz
05-22-2010, 12:27 PM
Only way Lefty stays in is if he looks like Tom Brady in our first 4 starts and Ben looks like trash in the next game.

Too small of a sample size to give Lefty credit or blame. The Redskins game was great but I think it really showed how productive our game plan would be if the plays were run the way they were called. Ben was hurt and he wasn't practicing so the timing was off.

hawaiiansteel
05-22-2010, 03:53 PM
looks like Mark Madden's unimpeachable source is NOT Bruce Arians -


QUOTE TO NOTE: "He'll jump right back in there. He's going to have to play 12 games." Coordinator Bruce Arians, on what Ben Roethlisberger will do if and when he's cleared to return before the end of spring practices.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football ... /notes.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/steelers/notes.htm)

NW Steeler
05-22-2010, 07:10 PM
As much as I'd like to see us go 4-0 to start the season, I don't think we need to worry about that scenario unfolding anyway.

flippy
05-23-2010, 06:34 AM
Wonder if Worilds will be out Harrison in this alternate universe?

HeHateMe
05-23-2010, 07:36 AM
This is a response to a Lefty ballwasher that someone posted on another forum. I thought it summed things up quite nicely.


The Leftwich ballwashing is getting pretty tiring, even for someone like me that mostly just lurks and reads posts.

For starters, he was 4-1 ( 0-0 technically because he didn't start any of the games), one of the 5 games he threw a pass in was in the loss to the Eagles.

And it's an anomaly because only twice in those games was he in the game during a meaningful amount of time, and one of the times was in a meaningless week 17 game with the division and a first round bye already locked up.

Vs Houston - Leftwich takes his first snap when the game is already 35-3 in the first quarter.
1st possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Houston responds with a TD

2nd possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Harrison and Woodley force and recover a Schaub fumble and Pit gets the ball back on the Houston 28

3rd possession? Lefty throws 2 more incomplete passes, but Pit's already in FG range. FG is made, Houston scores another TD but it's too late, and Lefty kneels.

Leftwich contribution? 4 incomplete passes, all 4 net yards with Lefty undercenter come from 5 handoffs to Mendenhall.

vs Eagles - There's two minutes left and the Eagles are up 9, but Leftwich manages to look pretty competent here. He goes 4 for 7 to move the ball 60 yards against a prevent D, but the possession ends when Lefty takes a 9 yard loss on a sack on 3rd and 1, then throws incomplete on 4th down.

vs Bengals - Leftwich saves the day with a touchdown pass in the final minutes. Except the Steelers were already up 31-10 with under 5 minutes to go in the 4th, Leftwich started out on the Bengals' 34 yard line, and the first player with a hand on the pass was John Joseph who tipped the ball into Ward's hands.

vs Redskins - Lefty's best game as a Steeler. He comes in after halftime when the Steelers are leading 10-6 (due to a Roethlisberger rushing TD mind you) and posts up 129 Yards, contributing to 2 scoring drives including a Leftwich TD pass. During this half, the Steelers D continues to make the skins look incompetent, intercepting Campbell twice and stopping two 4th down attempts in Pit territory, once on the goal line.

vs Browns - A nice Leftwich showing. He comes in mid-drive when Ben gets hurt and he gets to start out in Cleveland territory. He contributes to 3 scoring drives (2 of them when he started out in Cleveland territory) including a rushing TD, to push a 7-0 lead to a 24-0 lead, when the Steelers D completes their rout of the Browns offense with an int return TD.

Leftwich played well, but only in the Redskins game and maybe the Browns game did he have any real impact at all (in two games where the defense had been dominating regardless), and accomplished nothing notable against a prevent D, the only time he came in when the Steelers weren't already leading.


This an ERRONEOUS POST. Lets see for example in the Eagles game Jim Johnson is QUOTED as saying "I had to call off the blitz because leftwich was burning us". There was NO prevent defense. Thats an out and out LIE. In fact he was sacked ONCE that game. Fact is he burned the blitz and lead us down the field. Something BEN COULD NOT DO. Secondly, he hit Nate Washington in the HANDS in the endzone and Nate DROPPED the pass. WHY didnt the poster mention that? CAN YOU SAY BIAS? But you knew that when he said "against a prevent defense". Jim Johnson blitzes the crap out of the starter but is going to sit back in a prevent vs the backup? Jim Johnson doesnt believe in a PREVENT ESPECIALLY IN A ONE POSSESSION GAME lol

Vs Redskins- We are LEADING due to a BLOCKED punt NOT Ben. Yes Ben scored on a ONE YARD dive. That drive was manufactured by the blocked punt, NOT BY BEN. The Skins D were giving Ben FITS, he was taking sacks and playing badly. Enter Leftwich. On his 1st pass he hits a streaking Nate Washington. He underthrew him but nothing like the fair catch punts that Ben underthrows. How about the audible inside the 10? Leftwich noticed that the corner was playing off of Tone so he audibles and hits Tone for a quick strike and TD. Try to DIMINISH what Leftwich did all you want but the facts are that he OUTPLAYED BEN in both the Skins and the Browns game. Worth noting- Ben threw a HORRIBLE pick in the redzone before he was carted out of the Browns game. Leftwich contributed to TWENTY FOUR points in 3 qtrs.


vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns Leftwich 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Big Ben 9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating

BURGH86STEEL
05-23-2010, 08:43 AM
I think Ben will return as the starter. I think Ben needs to play well regardless of what happens in the first 4 games.

Sugar
05-23-2010, 08:58 AM
I would love to have the "problem" of starting 4-0. While I don't think it's likely, it would still be great. Of course, it would be great to never lose...

frankthetank1
05-23-2010, 10:25 AM
lefty is average at best. he was awful last season which is not all that encouaging going into this season. josh freeman played better than lefty did in tampa with the same offense. no way lefty will ever start instead of ben, that is stupid.

BURGH86STEEL
05-23-2010, 11:31 AM
lefty is average at best. he was awful last season which is not all that encouaging going into this season. josh freeman played better than lefty did in tampa with the same offense. no way lefty will ever start instead of ben, that is stupid.

Leftwich can play better then average. We should all hope he plays well for the sake of the team.

In fairness, I don't think Leftwich had a real good opportunity to prove anything in Tampa. He will get an opportunity with a better Steelers team.

Ben was yanked for Leftwich in 2008. Never know what will happen over the coarse of a season. Especially, if Leftwich plays well his first 4 games and Ben plays poorly in his return.

Sugar
05-23-2010, 10:30 PM
lefty is average at best. he was awful last season which is not all that encouaging going into this season. josh freeman played better than lefty did in tampa with the same offense. no way lefty will ever start instead of ben, that is stupid.

Leftwich can play better then average. We should all hope he plays well for the sake of the team.

In fairness, I don't think Leftwich had a real good opportunity to prove anything in Tampa. He will get an opportunity with a better Steelers team.

Ben was yanked for Leftwich in 2008. Never know what will happen over the coarse of a season. Especially, if Leftwich plays well his first 4 games and Ben plays poorly in his return.

For the good of the team I really do hope that Lefty can at least manage the offense to a win or two. That said, he's two years older since he last played as a Steeler. He's had shots as the starting guy for teams that weren't that good for pity's sake and couldn't do a positive thing with either of them.

IMO, he's below average for an NFL starter but a solid backup guy so I hope that with a better supporting cast he does what good backups do and get some wins until the main man gets back.

Crash
05-24-2010, 02:25 AM
Yes Ben scored on a ONE YARD dive.

Wrong. The Steelers take over on the Skins 13.

A sack for -1 yard and then a Starks holding penalty gives the Steelers a second and 21 from the Skins 24.

Ben hits Holmes for 9 yards.

Ben hits Ward for 14 yards on 3rd and 12.

Ben then scores on a one yard sneak.


Secondly, he hit Nate Washington in the HANDS in the endzone and Nate DROPPED the pass. WHY didnt the poster mention that?

Because it didn't happen. Leftwich actually threw the ball too far inside. Had he thrown it to Nate's outside shoulder maybe makes the catch, but I think Samuel breaks it up anyway. It wasn't a great throw and it wasn't a drop.


Jim Johnson doesnt believe in a PREVENT ESPECIALLY IN A ONE POSSESSION GAME lol

Terrific, but guess what? A 9 point lead is a TWO POSSESSION GAME lol.


This an ERRONEOUS POST.

I agree, so stop making them.

Crash
05-24-2010, 02:39 AM
Ben was yanked for Leftwich in 2008

Ben was never "yanked" for Leftwich. Byron played when Ben was hurt or in scrap time.

BURGH86STEEL
05-24-2010, 05:51 AM
Ben was yanked for Leftwich in 2008

Ben was never "yanked" for Leftwich. Byron played when Ben was hurt or in scrap time.

I remember Ben being pulled at halftime because he had an awful game against Washington that year. I stand corrected if it was due to an injury.

Crash
05-24-2010, 12:24 PM
Ben was not yanked. He injured his shoulder when he scored.

HeHateMe
05-24-2010, 12:59 PM
[quote]Yes Ben scored on a ONE YARD dive.

Wrong. The Steelers take over on the Skins 13.

A sack for -1 yard and then a Starks holding penalty gives the Steelers a second and 21 from the Skins 24.

Ben hits Holmes for 9 yards.

Ben hits Ward for 14 yards on 3rd and 12.

Ben then scores on a one yard sneak.


Fact is that scoring drive was DUE to the BLOCKED PUNT as I said. You semantic approach bores me. In the end WHO played better BEN OR BYRON. Tell the truth and shame the devil.


Secondly, he hit Nate Washington in the HANDS in the endzone and Nate DROPPED the pass. WHY didnt the poster mention that?

Because it didn't happen. Leftwich actually threw the ball too far inside. Had he thrown it to Nate's outside shoulder maybe makes the catch, but I think Samuel breaks it up anyway. It wasn't a great throw and it wasn't a drop.

Question- DID the ball hit Nate IN HIS HANDS OR NOT? YES IT DID. Go to the drops of 2008 and SEE that Nate was given a DROP for that game. DUUUUH. Fact is he drove the Steelers DOWN THE FIELD when Ben could not. Fact is THERE WAS NO PREVENT DEFENSE, WHY would Johnson go to a prevent in a CLOSE game? DO TELL LOL LIAR LOL



Jim Johnson doesnt believe in a PREVENT ESPECIALLY IN A ONE POSSESSION GAME lol

Terrific, but guess what? A 9 point lead is a TWO POSSESSION GAME lol.


It wasnt a NINE point game when Leftwich was SUPPOSEDLY facing this PREVENT defense that you erroneously posted. As I will PROVE, the Eagles scored a fg to make it a TWO possesion game with ONE MINUTE left in the game.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200809211 ... /box-score (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008092113/2008/REG3/steelers@eagles/analyze/box-score)
So take your BIASED analysis somewhere else sir, you OBVIOUSLY DON'T know what you are talking about. LOL
This an ERRONEOUS POST.

I agree, so stop making them.[/quote:s5l2z0dz]

I THINK I HAVE PROVED WHO IS ERRONEOUS AND WHO IS NOT. LOL

feltdizz
05-24-2010, 01:00 PM
Ben was not yanked. He injured his shoulder when he scored.

he was yanked.

He was dinged up but we have all seen Ben in far worse condition and still play decent football.

"The starting QB next game will be the one who practices all week"
-Tomlin.

that quote told us a lot about Ben's lack of reps with the first team. Sure enough,

HeHateMe
05-24-2010, 01:05 PM
Ben was yanked for Leftwich in 2008

Ben was never "yanked" for Leftwich. Byron played when Ben was hurt or in scrap time.
That is INCORRECT, Ben COULD have played the 2nd half of the Skins game but Tomlin decided to go with Leftwich due to Ben's bad play. After Ben played like *ss the next week (Colts) Tomlin told Ben if he doesnt practice he is not playing, he will play Leftwich. Ben decided to practice.

cruzer8
05-24-2010, 02:09 PM
Ben was not yanked. He injured his shoulder when he scored.

Correct.

feltdizz
05-24-2010, 03:00 PM
Ben was yanked for Leftwich in 2008

Ben was never "yanked" for Leftwich. Byron played when Ben was hurt or in scrap time.
That is INCORRECT, Ben COULD have played the 2nd half of the Skins game but Tomlin decided to go with Leftwich due to Ben's bad play. After Ben played like *ss the next week (Colts) Tomlin told Ben if he doesnt practice he is not playing, he will play Leftwich. Ben decided to practice.

I thought the quote was after the Skins game. Ben didn't have a bad game against the Colts. He had a bad throw to end the half that gave the Colts momentum but he was pretty good.

Crash
05-24-2010, 03:03 PM
As I will PROVE, the Eagles scored a fg to make it a TWO possesion game with ONE MINUTE left in the game.

Um, no.

The Eagles kicked a FG with 2:30 on the clock.

4th and 5 at PIT 13 (2:30) D.Akers 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Dorenbos, Holder-S.Rocca.

Leftwich then came in, when it was 15-6.

Leftwich's first play:

1st and 10 at PIT 27 (2:20) (Shotgun) B.Leftwich pass short right to N.Washington to PIT 40 for 13 yards (J.Hanson, O.Gaither).

You can't even read a box score. The Eagles DRIVE was 1:03. That wasn't when he kicked the FG you simp.

PIT 6 PHI 15, 4 plays, 5 yards, 1:03 drive.



Ben also didn't play like ass against the Colts either. He threw one bad pick, the second pick. Holmes cut his route off short on the first pick.


Fact is that scoring drive was DUE to the BLOCKED PUNT as I said.

What you said son is that Ben scored on a one yard drive, that is inaccurate.


Question- DID the ball hit Nate IN HIS HANDS OR NOT? YES IT DID

It hit one hand, if he catches that pass with Samuel all over him it would have been a one handed grab. It was a poor throw. A good throw gives Nate a chance to make a clean catch.

Watch the games, don't read the box scores.

HeHateMe
05-24-2010, 05:05 PM
[quote]As I will PROVE, the Eagles scored a fg to make it a TWO possesion game with ONE MINUTE left in the game.

Um, no.

The Eagles kicked a FG with 2:30 on the clock.

4th and 5 at PIT 13 (2:30) D.Akers 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Dorenbos, Holder-S.Rocca.

Leftwich then came in, when it was 15-6.

Leftwich's first play:

1st and 10 at PIT 27 (2:20) (Shotgun) B.Leftwich pass short right to N.Washington to PIT 40 for 13 yards (J.Hanson, O.Gaither).

You can't even read a box score. The Eagles DRIVE was 1:03. That wasn't when he kicked the FG you simp.

PIT 6 PHI 15, 4 plays, 5 yards, 1:03 drive.

SIMP? LOL HE'S MAD LOL
You got that from the play by play NOT the boxscore DUMDUM. Get it right DUMDUM lol

Ben also didn't play like bad word against the Colts either. He threw one bad pick, the second pick. Holmes cut his route off short on the first pick.

Ben did play like *ss THATS why after that game Tomlin FORCED him to practice, prior to that game he let Ben miss practices. WHY did he forbid it after the Colts game? BECAUSE BEN PLAYED LIKE *SS DUMDUM LOL That pick wasnt on Holmes it was on BEN. But I forgot how you Ben Homers are. EVERYTHING is everyone elses fault and NEVER Bens. PROVE it was Tone's fault, you can't EVERY analyst worth a damn attributed that int to BEN as they should. Ben is NOT a anticipatory passer, SINCE WHEN does he throw the ball before a wr makes his break? See the Packer game when he hit Wallace. What did Arians say? "We were shocked becuase Ben hardly EVER throws a pass befor the break. He relies soley on his big arm" NICE TRY SIREXCUSEALOT LOL

Fact is that scoring drive was DUE to the BLOCKED PUNT as I said.

What you said son is that Ben scored on a one yard drive, that is inaccurate.


Question- DID the ball hit Nate IN HIS HANDS OR NOT? YES IT DID

It hit one hand, if he catches that pass with Samuel all over him it would have been a one handed grab. It was a poor throw. A good throw gives Nate a chance to make a clean catch.

Watch the games, don't read the box scores.[/quote:2socviqm]
I WATCHED the game and NATE dropped that pass. Its ok I understand that you are a Ben homer but the FACT remains that LEFTWICH OUTPLAYED BEN IN 08. Funny how the line SUCKED in the Browns, Skins and Eagles game UNTIL Leftwich came in. Its NOT the Line, IT IS BEN DUMDUM LOL

Crash
05-24-2010, 07:31 PM
Ben homer but the FACT remains that LEFTWICH OUTPLAYED BEN IN 08.

If you say so.

Leftwich was so good in 2009 he was dumped again and is now on his 5th team in five years.

Btw, Leftwich was sacked once every 9 times for the 2008 Steelers.

Ben? Once every 10 times.

So Leftwich was actually easier to sack.

Captain Lemming
05-24-2010, 07:51 PM
Both of you clowns are extreme in your expressions and are half right on this issue.

Crash is right Ben is much better than Leftwich and gives us the better long term chances. Byron has a career of evidence to show he is very capable, but not great.

However, HeHateMe is correct that Leftwich was clearly the better player in the games he came in for Ben. Hey every QB has bad games and Byron played Bens worst games.

HeHateMe is extreme in his disrespect for Ben's real accomplishment as an elite QB, and Crash cannot admit Byron was better than Ben in a couple of games.

I really hate to agree with either of you, so I'll just say you are both partly WRONG. :wink:
That feels better. :lol:

HeHateMe
05-24-2010, 08:07 PM
Ben homer but the FACT remains that LEFTWICH OUTPLAYED BEN IN 08.

If you say so.

Leftwich was so good in 2009 he was dumped again and is now on his 5th team in five years.

Btw, Leftwich was sacked once every 9 times for the 2008 Steelers.

Ben? Once every 10 times.

So Leftwich was actually easier to sack.

Put Ben on the Bucs and he has success? HARDLY. Ben is successful because he is on the Steelers, JUST like Leftwich. By the way Steve Young looked horrible in Tampa, went to SF and was a Hall of Famer. Ben has ONE Pro Bowl on a ELITE team. Put him on a lesser team and you expect him to be better? LOL OK
Bottom Line Leftwich outplayed Ben and he will maker our offense look GREAT in Bens absence. Ben will come back and the line will give up sacks again. WHY? Because Ben is slow to process the information and he makes poor pre snap reads. Ben even got sacked TWICE in his only Pro Bowl appearance. I KNOW it wasnt Ben's fault. DAMN ALL PRO OFFENSIVE LINE- YOU BUMS! LOL

HeHateMe
05-24-2010, 08:12 PM
Both of you clowns are extreme in your expressions and are half right on this issue.

Crash is right Ben is much better than Leftwich and gives us the better long term chances. Byron has a career of evidence to show he is very capable, but not great.

However, HeHateMe is correct that Leftwich was clearly the better player in the games he came in for Ben. Hey every QB has bad games and Byron played Bens worst games.

HeHateMe is extreme in his disrespect for Ben's real accomplishment as an elite QB, and Crash cannot admit Byron was better than Ben in a couple of games.

I really hate to agree with either of you, so I'll just say you are both partly WRONG. :wink:
That feels better. :lol:

I'm NOT extreme. ELITE qbs are Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner and Favre. ELITE qbs go to the Pro Bowl EVERY YEAR. Not ONCE in their career. The ONLY ELITE season Ben had was LAST SEASON. However, his team went 9-7. If you are going to give him the success when we win ( 05 or 06- led the league in rushing) (08 Defense led the league) you HAVE to give him the blame when we don't win. Funny Brady, Manning, Montana, Young didnt miss the playoffs when they led great teams (there is always an exception to every rule) but BEN is the ONLY NFL QB to win a SB and MISS THE PLAYOFFS THE NEXT SEASON, TWICE. Makes it seem like our wins are flukes. THIS TEAM IS SPECIAL. ALL WE NEED IS A COMPETENT QB. Ben cant make good decisions off the field but you TRUST him ON it? I DON'T. Trade the Rapist

Sugar
05-24-2010, 10:10 PM
When guys like Manning and Brady are both in the AFC, Ben doesn't get nearly the shot at the Pro-Bowl as he might have. That said, I'd take him over either of them, and that's a little hard for me as a Michigan fan. For his time in the league, it's hard to match Ben's accomplishments all-time.

He's the Steelers QB and the best player on our Offense and he will be missed. Can we win some games without him? I hope and expect to win at least two of the six.

Crash
05-24-2010, 11:39 PM
Put Ben on the Bucs and he has success? HARDLY.

Ben was drafted by a 6-10 team, and a team that had 4 of the previous 6 seasons out of the playoffs before his arrival and two 10 loss seasons out of the previous five also before Ben showed up.

2007 Ben wasn't elite?

He was also elite in 2005. Total up his stats in the 16 games he played in.

If that's not elite? Cut him now.

Crash
05-24-2010, 11:51 PM
Btw, for a comparison below between two second year players.

Here are Ben Roethlisberger's 2005 numbers in 16 games:

226 of 361 (62% ) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

Here are Tom Brady's 2001 numbers in 18 games:

324 of 510 (63%) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs.

I think everyone minus HHM can tell which column is better.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2010, 12:25 AM
I'm NOT extreme. ELITE qbs are Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner and Favre. ELITE qbs go to the Pro Bowl EVERY YEAR. Not ONCE in their career. The ONLY ELITE season Ben had was LAST SEASON. However, his team went 9-7. If you are going to give him the success when we win ( 05 or 06- led the league in rushing) (08 Defense led the league) you HAVE to give him the blame when we don't win.
Lie
Steelers have NEVER led the league in rushing with Ben at QB.
They were 5th in rushing in Bens first SB. Never 1st in his career.

Clearly Pro Bowls mean more than SB's to you.
Like most pro bowl voters, you rank QBs base on yardage period. Ridiculous.
ANYBODY can get yards.
Yardage is about ATTEMPTS dude!
I would take Bens 2007 regular season over last year any day.

Let me share with you some knowledge.
It aint JUST about the defense and run game.

-Only two of your "Elite Five" have a career QB rating higher than Ben.
-Ben ranks 9th all time in QB rating.
-Ben had the best rookie season in history.
-Only Peyton has more 100 QB rating games than Ben in the History of the NFL.
-Ben is a Pup. At this point in their career NONE of your fantastic 5 had Ben's QB rating.


Funny Brady, Manning, Montana, Young didnt miss the playoffs when they led great teams (there is always an exception to every rule) but BEN is the ONLY NFL QB to win a SB and MISS THE PLAYOFFS THE NEXT SEASON, TWICE.
Lie 2
FUNNY, Manning and Young need to WIN two SBs first before they can miss the playoffs after SBs twice.
Brady has in fact missed the playoffs after a SB win.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 12:56 AM
When guys like Manning and Brady are both in the AFC, Ben doesn't get nearly the shot at the Pro-Bowl as he might have. That said, I'd take him over either of them, and that's a little hard for me as a Michigan fan. For his time in the league, it's hard to match Ben's accomplishments all-time.

He's the Steelers QB and the best player on our Offense and he will be missed. Can we win some games without him? I hope and expect to win at least two of the six.
Best player on our offense? The guy has ONE Pro Bowl and ONE Team MVP. But I'll take your word for it. I will give him the MOST blame since you say he is our best offensive player.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 12:58 AM
Put Ben on the Bucs and he has success? HARDLY.

Ben was drafted by a 6-10 team, and a team that had 4 of the previous 6 seasons out of the playoffs before his arrival and two 10 loss seasons out of the previous five also before Ben showed up.

2007 Ben wasn't elite?

He was also elite in 2005. Total up his stats in the 16 games he played in.

If that's not elite? Cut him now.
We were 6-10 due to SCHEME. We passed too much. What is our record when we pass over 35 times WITH Ben? IT'S A LOSING RECORD SIR. GET IT???
Yeah, Ben was Elite in 07 I agree. He was NOT Elite in 05, YOU'RE HIGH.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 01:00 AM
Btw, for a comparison below between two second year players.

Here are Ben Roethlisberger's 2005 numbers in 16 games:

226 of 361 (62% ) for 3188 yards (8.3 YPA) for 24 TDS 12 INTS, 99.3 QB rating 5 rush tds = 29 total TDs

Here are Tom Brady's 2001 numbers in 18 games:

324 of 510 (63%) for 3415 yards (6.9 YPA) for 19 TDS 13 INTS, 84.7 QB rating 1 rush td = 20 total TDs.

I think everyone minus HHM can tell which column is better.
Brady is a HALL OF FAMER Ben is NOT. Ben is on the BETTER team. Brady is the PRIMARY reason the Pats are good. BEN IS NOT. The defense is.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 01:20 AM
I'm NOT extreme. ELITE qbs are Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner and Favre. ELITE qbs go to the Pro Bowl EVERY YEAR. Not ONCE in their career. The ONLY ELITE season Ben had was LAST SEASON. However, his team went 9-7. If you are going to give him the success when we win ( 05 or 06- led the league in rushing) (08 Defense led the league) you HAVE to give him the blame when we don't win.
Lie
Steelers have NEVER led the league in rushing with Ben at QB.
They were 5th in rushing in Bens first SB. Never 1st in his career.
OH MY BAD THEY LED THE AFC IN HIS ROOKIE YEAR. SECOND IN THE LEAGUE. MY BAD LOL

Clearly Pro Bowls mean more than SB's to you.
I mentioned PRO BOWLS to refute his ELITE status. He is not. SUPER BOWLS are a TEAM ACCOLADE. Ben played HORRIBLE in SB #1 and still got a ring. Had we played a better team, we would have lost. In SB #2 he played well on the 1st drive and the last drive. In between he was in LA LA LAND. He has YET to win a SB MVP, ELITE qb (BRADSHAW) win SB Mvp's. GAME MANAGERS WIN SB'S and thats what Ben has been in the Sbs that he has participated in. ONE TD AND THREE INTS, IS NOT ELITE SIR.
Like most pro bowl voters, you rank QBs base on yardage period. Ridiculous.
ANYBODY can get yards.
Yardage is about ATTEMPTS dude!
I would take Bens 2007 regular season over last year any day.

Let me share with you some knowledge.
It aint JUST about the defense and run game.

-Only two of your "Elite Five" have a career QB rating higher than Ben.
-Ben ranks 9th all time in QB rating.
-Ben had the best rookie season in history.
-Only Peyton has more 100 QB rating games than Ben in the History of the NFL.
-Ben is a Pup. At this point in their career NONE of your fantastic 5 had Ben's QB rating.

BEN HAS THE ADVANTAGE OF PLAYING ON THE STEELERS. You know the team that made HORRIBLE DENNIS DIXON look pretty good. You know the team that mad TAMMY (yes Tammy) look pretty good. The team that makes Leftwich look good. Take Ben off of the Steelers and he is JAKE PLUMMER. THE STEELERS MAKE BEN, not the other way around. Sorry if I REP my TEAM and you REP individuals.

Funny Brady, Manning, Montana, Young didnt miss the playoffs when they led great teams (there is always an exception to every rule) but BEN is the ONLY NFL QB to win a SB and MISS THE PLAYOFFS THE NEXT SEASON, TWICE.
Lie 2
FUNNY, Manning and Young need to WIN two SBs first before they can miss the playoffs after SBs twice.
Brady has in fact missed the playoffs after a SB win.
Manning and YOUNG are BOTH better than Ben. PERIOD. When coaches hold Qb camps NO coach instructs a young QB to play like Ben. The models uses are Montana, Manning, Brady, Brees etc. NEVER BEN. Again, take Ben off of the Steelers and he is a BUM.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2010, 02:47 AM
I mentioned PRO BOWLS to refute his ELITE status. He is not. SUPER BOWLS are a TEAM ACCOLADE. Ben played HORRIBLE in SB #1 and still got a ring. Had we played a better team, we would have lost.
First SB year he had a bad SB true. Who was the statistically best QB in that post season? Dont sidestep the question.


In SB #2 he played well on the 1st drive and the last drive. In between he was in LA LA LAND. He has YET to win a SB MVP, ELITE qb (BRADSHAW) win SB Mvp's.
At the same point in their careers, Brad had zero SB MVPs

I said:
Like most pro bowl voters, you rank QBs base on yardage period. Ridiculous.
ANYBODY can get yards.
Yardage is about ATTEMPTS dude!
I would take Bens 2007 regular season over last year any day.

Let me share with you some knowledge.
It aint JUST about the defense and run game.

-Only two of your "Elite Five" have a career QB rating higher than Ben.
-Ben ranks 9th all time in QB rating.
-Ben had the best rookie season in history.
-Only Peyton has more 100 QB rating games than Ben in the History of the NFL.
-Ben is a Pup. At this point in their career NONE of your fantastic 5 had Ben's QB rating.

Nothing below addressed my points. I gave individual passing facts.


BEN HAS THE ADVANTAGE OF PLAYING ON THE STEELERS. You know the team that made HORRIBLE DENNIS DIXON look pretty good. You know the team that mad TAMMY (yes Tammy) look pretty good. The team that makes Leftwich look good. Take Ben off of the Steelers and he is JAKE PLUMMER. THE STEELERS MAKE BEN, not the other way around. Sorry if I REP my TEAM and you REP individuals.

Actually, your points are meaningless since none of the above QBs can match these accomplishments I already gave you:

-Only two of your "Elite Five" have a career QB rating higher than Ben.
-Ben ranks 9th all time in QB rating.
-Ben had the best rookie season in history.
-Only Peyton has more 100 QB rating games than Ben in the History of the NFL.
-Ben is a Pup. At this point in their career NONE of your fantastic 5 had Ben's QB rating.

Please see if you can address these points.


Funny Brady, Manning, Montana, Young didnt miss the playoffs when they led great teams (there is always an exception to every rule) but BEN is the ONLY NFL QB to win a SB and MISS THE PLAYOFFS THE NEXT SEASON, TWICE.

To which I said:
Lie 2
FUNNY, Manning and Young need to WIN two SBs first before they can miss the playoffs after SBs twice.
Brady has in fact missed the playoffs after a SB win.

You cannot refute me and again avoid addressing my points with the below:

Manning and YOUNG are BOTH better than Ben. PERIOD. When coaches hold Qb camps NO coach instructs a young QB to play like Ben. The models uses are Montana, Manning, Brady, Brees etc. NEVER BEN. Again, take Ben off of the Steelers and he is a BUM.

Yeah like you can "teach" a Kid, "when they blitz, just toss the linebacker to the ground with a forearm Shiver to buy more time, allowing your slow receivers to get open."

Ben has unique skills that cannot be taught.

Crash
05-25-2010, 03:16 AM
Brady is a HALL OF FAMER Ben is NOT. Ben is on the BETTER team.

How can Ben's team before him be so great when they spent four of the previous six years out of the playoffs?

Answer that or kindly shut your pie hole.


Ben played HORRIBLE in SB #1 and still got a ring. Had we played a better team, we would have lost.

And had Nolan Cromwell not dropped a pick six in Super Bowl XIV late in the 3rd quarter while leading the Steelers lose to the Rams.


Take Ben off of the Steelers and he is JAKE PLUMMER.

Bull****. Ben's won at every level. He'll win elsewhere if the Rooney's do what idiots like you want and get rid of him.

Crash
05-25-2010, 03:24 AM
HeHateMe talking about Leftwich below:

"Secondly, he hit Nate Washington in the HANDS in the endzone and Nate DROPPED the pass"

HeHateMe talking about Ben in the Super Bowls below:

"ONE TD AND THREE INTS, IS NOT ELITE SIR"

No mention of the dropped TD by Ward in Super Bowl XL.

Why is that HHM? Or is the obvious guess the correct one?

Crash
05-25-2010, 03:30 AM
He was NOT Elite in 05, YOU'RE HIGH.

Then neither was Brady in 2001. Not possible.

MaxAMillion
05-25-2010, 09:29 AM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.

cruzer8
05-25-2010, 10:17 AM
Why would someone be using something the fans vote on as a measure for greatness?

Dwight White was a pretty great player as I recall. Won 4 super bowls in 6 seasons. Was part of one of the best defenses of all time. He made 2 pro bowls back when there was no fan voting.

Aaron Smith. 2 time super bowl champ. Arguably one of the best 3-4 ends in the business. 1 pro bowl.

Terry Bradshaw. 4 time super bowl champ. #1 overall draft pick. 14 seasons. 3 pro bowls.

The list goes on and on. The pro bowl doesn't mean sh!t. Especially once fan voting was incorporated.

Only a complete imbecile would use pro bowls in an argument.

Sugar
05-25-2010, 11:19 AM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.

Yep, that pretty much says it all.

It's amazing what we find to discuss in May. :lol:

feltdizz
05-25-2010, 12:55 PM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.

Sorry but that makes zero sense. The same D helps set Ben up. 2008 was all about the D. We witnessed what happens when the D is bad and Ben is great. It's 9-7.

Football is the ultimate team sport. Ben has been great at extending plays on 3rd down at critical times in the AFC championship games. That is the only difference between us having 6 SB's and 10 SB's.

We made it to a ton of AFC championship games with average QB play.

It's a damn shame so many people act like the Steelers are the Cleveland Browns without Ben for 4 games.

Crash
05-25-2010, 01:37 PM
It's a damn shame so many people act like the Steelers are the Cleveland Browns without Ben for 4 games.

So four of the previous six January's at home, and two 10 loss seasons in five years before Ben's arrival is what? GOOD football?

Btw, the Steelers lost to the 1999-2003 Browns THREE TIMES prior to Ben's arrival.

Ben is 9-1 against them.

feltdizz
05-25-2010, 03:00 PM
It's a damn shame so many people act like the Steelers are the Cleveland Browns without Ben for 4 games.

So four of the previous six January's at home, and two 10 loss seasons in five years before Ben's arrival is what? GOOD football?

Btw, the Steelers lost to the 1999-2003 Browns THREE TIMES prior to Ben's arrival.

Ben is 9-1 against them.

The Browns have stunk since we beat them in the playoffs with Tommy Gun.

Crash
05-25-2010, 04:17 PM
The Browns have stunk since we beat them in the playoffs with Tommy Gun.

And yet they embarrassed the 2003 Steelers in Pittsburgh on ESPN the year prior to Ben's arrival.

ikestops85
05-25-2010, 05:06 PM
The Steelers are a good team without Ben but they have visions of greatness with Ben. I don't see how anybody can say Ben does not make this team better.

We will be okay with Lefty at the wheel but I also would like to see what we have in Dixon. If we can showcase him we might get a decent draft pick like San Diego got for Whitehurst. Lefty can then assume the Batch role as Ben's clipboard carrier and advisor.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 05:50 PM
[quote]Brady is a HALL OF FAMER Ben is NOT. Ben is on the BETTER team.


How can Ben's team before him be so great when they spent four of the previous six years out of the playoffs?

Answer that or kindly shut your pie hole. Were those STEELERS as talented as THESE STEELERS? Yancy Thigpen? LOL/ kORDELL? MADDOX? CHARLES JOHNSON?/ VRABEL? D. WASHINGTON?/ WILLIE WILLAMS? D. PERRY?/C. HOPE? CHAD SCOTT? YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT?
Ben played HORRIBLE in SB #1 and still got a ring. Had we played a better team, we would have lost.


And had Nolan Cromwell not dropped a pick six in Super Bowl XIV late in the 3rd quarter while leading the Steelers lose to the Rams. UH the game was 13-10 at that point. IF You think Ferragamo and the Rams Beat us then you are HIGHER THAN A HIPPIE. Bradshaw was MVP of that game BY THE WAY. Unlike the RAPIST.
Take Ben off of the Steelers and he is JAKE PLUMMER.

bad word. Ben's won at every level. He'll win elsewhere if the Rooney's do what idiots like you want and get rid of him.[/quote:17t9k2bz]
Ben has won in Pittsburgh due to being on an ELITE team. While his play hAS NOT been elite. Kinds like how that BUM Kordell won 45 or more games on the STEELERS. Kinda like how that BUM Oddonnell won 30 plus. You get it? We win with any qb because the Steelers ARE ELITE NOT THE QBS. It will be the same with Leftwich behind center. Only when we win with Byron you GOOD OLE BOYS will tell the truth and credit the Steelers and NOT the qb. But when it comes to Ben you'll say "we win because of Ben". Funny we have a WINNING record in his absence. TELLING

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 05:51 PM
He was NOT Elite in 05, YOU'RE HIGH.

Then neither was Brady in 2001. Not possible.
Brady is ELITE NOW is the point. If he retired NOW he would be in the Hall. How about Ben?
LOL

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 05:53 PM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.
You'll see how efficient that offense runs without the uphill battle of the SACKS. We will be 4-0 and WATCH the qb get NO credit. LOL

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 05:59 PM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.

Sorry but that makes zero sense. The same D helps set Ben up. 2008 was all about the D. We witnessed what happens when the D is bad and Ben is great. It's 9-7.

Football is the ultimate team sport. Ben has been great at extending plays on 3rd down at critical times in the AFC championship games. That is the only difference between us having 6 SB's and 10 SB's.

We made it to a ton of AFC championship games with average QB play.

It's a damn shame so many people act like the Steelers are the Cleveland Browns without Ben for 4 games.
FINALLY A REALIST.
The problem is that the Steelers have a BLACK coach. The GOOD OLE BOYS see all of the black bacjup Qbs and they are AFRAID that Ben will lose his job to one of the black qbs. Racists and guys who FAVOR their race are VERY territorial. When Leftwich played well in 08 guys were uneasy. If he does the same this year, they will be all over again. We have a Black coach a black President - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. They have to protect the sanctity of their race, NO MATTER WHAT Ben has done. However, IF Leftwich was the star Qb with two rapes in a year and Ben Rothelisberger were waitnng in the wings, they would be leading the chants to let Byron Go and give Ben a shot. Why do you think MOST white guys dont like boxing and prefer MMA? Its because the stars of MMA are white. Why do you think most white guys prefer College basketball than pro? Because there are more white stars in College than in pro. HOw many will admit to this FACT? NOT MANY

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:00 PM
It's a damn shame so many people act like the Steelers are the Cleveland Browns without Ben for 4 games.

So four of the previous six January's at home, and two 10 loss seasons in five years before Ben's arrival is what? GOOD football?

Btw, the Steelers lost to the 1999-2003 Browns THREE TIMES prior to Ben's arrival.

Ben is 9-1 against them.
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:01 PM
The Browns have stunk since we beat them in the playoffs with Tommy Gun.

And yet they embarrassed the 2003 Steelers in Pittsburgh on ESPN the year prior to Ben's arrival.
AND THEY EMBARRASED THE STEELERS ON NATIONAL TV LAST SEASON WITH BEN. YOUR POINT?

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 06:14 PM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.
You'll see how efficient that offense runs without the uphill battle of the SACKS. We will be 4-0 and WATCH the qb get NO credit. LOL

why should he get credit?

according to you and some other idiots, we have an elite team other then the QB

Crash
05-25-2010, 06:21 PM
AND THEY EMBARRASED THE STEELERS ON NATIONAL TV LAST SEASON WITH BEN. YOUR POINT?

It took the Browns 10 games to beat Ben.

The expansion Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons without Ben.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:24 PM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.
You'll see how efficient that offense runs without the uphill battle of the SACKS. We will be 4-0 and WATCH the qb get NO credit. LOL

why should he get credit?

according to you and some other idiots, we have an elite team other then the QB
Elite Qb's dont miss the playoffs TWICE after winning the SB. Do you REALLY think we miss the playoffs if Manning is Qbing this team? Brees? Brady? I dont. I get it. Ben gets all the credit and NO blame. Gotcha LOL

Crash
05-25-2010, 06:27 PM
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Kreider

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Hoke

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 21 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:28 PM
AND THEY EMBARRASED THE STEELERS ON NATIONAL TV LAST SEASON WITH BEN. YOUR POINT?

It took the Browns 10 games to beat Ben.

The expansion Browns beat the Steelers three times in five seasons without Ben.
Beat Ben? or the Steelers? Browns would have beat Ben (as you say) in 08 IF Leftwich hadnt of come in. Ben was playing like crap. Remember that redzone int by the RAPIST? THE TEAM gave us the lead. Ben was playing LETHARGIC. Again, the Teams prior to Ben were NOT as good as the teams now. That does matter ya know. Just watch Americas game and watch the WEAPONS that Maddox played with or Kordell. They compare them with who Ben is throwing to. Then check out the defense and see how many of those guys play on this team. The BEST defender from those teams (Porter) couldnt even start on our current team as he got RAN OUT OF TOWN post cowher.

Crash
05-25-2010, 06:33 PM
Beat Ben? or the Steelers? Browns would have beat Ben (as you say) in 08 IF Leftwich hadnt of come in.

Leftwich was coming in anyway you dumdum. Ben was scheduled to play a half in that game and was going to get yanked because the game meant nothing.

feltdizz
05-25-2010, 06:38 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:39 PM
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 19 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?
Woodley,

Mcfadden

Harrison

Clark

Wallace

Tone

Heath

Kemo

Colon

Mendenhall

Leftwich

Timmons

Hood

Mewelde

Fox

Logan

Gay

Burnett

Starks

K. Lewis

Spaeth

Sepulvada

AS A TEAM WE ARE WAY BETTER NOW. Ben went 14-1 as a rookie or something like that. You think that team was BETTER than the 12-4 SUPER BOWL team of 08? I DO NOT

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:41 PM
Beat Ben? or the Steelers? Browns would have beat Ben (as you say) in 08 IF Leftwich hadnt of come in.

Leftwich was coming in anyway you dumdum. Ben was scheduled to play a half in that game and was going to get yanked because the game meant nothing.
HE PLAYED LIKE IT TOO DUMDUM
Leftwich will show the Steeler Nation how a CEREBRAL qb plays the position. Is he better than Ben? He is smarter, a better passer and a anticipatory passer. Better leader. Ben is more physically gifted but DUMB AS HELL

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:42 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.
BECAUE BEN IS DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMB and slow to process the information. Wait till he gets older and less elusive. It will be comical

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 06:43 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.
Look at the replay and you will see HEATH wide open over the middle but Ben doesnt see him. Just like in the SB he runs around (43) and finds Heath on the sideline (good play) but the GREAT play woulb be to hit Mewelde over the middle for about FORTY yards. Call my bluff.

Crash
05-25-2010, 07:21 PM
AS A TEAM WE ARE WAY BETTER NOW.

So why did they lose to the Browns?

Most of those guys you listed weren't on the 2005 team.

But they still lost to the Browns in 2009.

You just ended your own argument DUM DUM.

Btw, Santonio is now a Jet.

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:23 PM
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Kreider

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Hoke

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 21 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?

OWNED!!

where were the championships with that great team before XL and the 15-1 team. many of those were more in their prime before ben got there and they didn't win crap.

Elite team LOL

Crash
05-25-2010, 07:23 PM
Yeah Leftwich is so great he's on his 5th team in five years. :Bow

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:25 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.
Look at the replay and you will see HEATH wide open over the middle but Ben doesnt see him. Just like in the SB he runs around (43) and finds Heath on the sideline (good play) but the GREAT play woulb be to hit Mewelde over the middle for about FORTY yards. Call my bluff.

where should have manning should have thrown to before throwing the clinching pick 6 in the last superbowl?

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 07:28 PM
Yeah Leftwich is so great he's on his 5th team in five years. :Bow
Tell that to Kurt Warner or Brett Favre.
YIGH YIGH YIGH

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 07:29 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.
Look at the replay and you will see HEATH wide open over the middle but Ben doesnt see him. Just like in the SB he runs around (43) and finds Heath on the sideline (good play) but the GREAT play woulb be to hit Mewelde over the middle for about FORTY yards. Call my bluff.

where should have manning should have thrown to before throwing the clinching pick 6 in the last superbowl?
I could care less. Manning is NOT on my team. However, IF he was. Ben is traded or ON THE BENCH.

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:30 PM
The Steelers won't start the year 4-0 so Ben won't have to worry about losing his job. Everyone will get to see how important Ben and Holmes are to the offense this year. The offense won't be dynamic at all. I suspect they will struggle to score more than 17 points in a game without the defense helping to set up the scores. But hey, at least Rooney will be happy to see the Steelers run the ball more.
You'll see how efficient that offense runs without the uphill battle of the SACKS. We will be 4-0 and WATCH the qb get NO credit. LOL

why should he get credit?

according to you and some other idiots, we have an elite team other then the QB
Elite Qb's dont miss the playoffs TWICE after winning the SB. Do you REALLY think we miss the playoffs if Manning is Qbing this team? Brees? Brady? I dont. I get it. Ben gets all the credit and NO blame. Gotcha LOL

is that a rule you made up for qualifying elite QBs?

how many years did it take peyton to win a playoff game?


better question, how many non elite QBs win 2 superbowls in their first 5 years?

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 07:30 PM
AS A TEAM WE ARE WAY BETTER NOW.

So why did they lose to the Browns?

Most of those guys you listed weren't on the 2005 team.

But they still lost to the Browns in 2009.

You just ended your own argument DUM DUM.

Btw, Santonio is now a Jet.
We lost because of Ben's inability to get the ball out of his hands. Tone is a jet? WHAT? SINCE WHEN? GET OUT OF HERE?????????????

Crash
05-25-2010, 07:31 PM
Tell that to Kurt Warner or Brett Favre.

Kurt Warner is overrated. He pretty stunk after 2001 ended except for a year here and there.

Favre played for the same team for 16 years. Leftwich hasn't been employed by the same team for 16 MONTHS since he left Jacksonville.

YIGH YIGH YIGH

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:32 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.
Look at the replay and you will see HEATH wide open over the middle but Ben doesnt see him. Just like in the SB he runs around (43) and finds Heath on the sideline (good play) but the GREAT play woulb be to hit Mewelde over the middle for about FORTY yards. Call my bluff.

where should have manning should have thrown to before throwing the clinching pick 6 in the last superbowl?
I could care less. Manning is NOT on my team. However, IF he was. Ben is traded or ON THE BENCH.

but obviously you're an expert on where our QB should throw to sitting back on your couch (if you can afford one... pleasantville LOL) watching replays

so, where should have an "elite" manning thrown to?

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 07:34 PM
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Kreider

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Hoke

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 21 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?

OWNED!!

where were the championships with that great team before XL and the 15-1 team. many of those were more in their prime before ben got there and they didn't win crap.

Elite team LOL
So they won SB 40 BECAUSE OF BEN? How did Ben play in that game sir? And We still won
(Enter- Look how Ben played in the Bengals, Colts and Broncos games). Would that matter IF we lost SB 40? NOPE

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:34 PM
I never understood why Ben took that hit in a meaningless game against Cleveland. Throw the ball away... It's a meaningless game and he takes a shot that ups his concussion count.
Look at the replay and you will see HEATH wide open over the middle but Ben doesnt see him. Just like in the SB he runs around (43) and finds Heath on the sideline (good play) but the GREAT play woulb be to hit Mewelde over the middle for about FORTY yards. Call my bluff.

where should have manning should have thrown to before throwing the clinching pick 6 in the last superbowl?
I could care less. Manning is NOT on my team. However, IF he was. Ben is traded or ON THE BENCH.

with idiots like yourself, i couldn't imagine what some of stillernation would look like going 2-14 in order to pick up manning where he was drated

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:38 PM
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Kreider

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Hoke

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 21 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?

OWNED!!

where were the championships with that great team before XL and the 15-1 team. many of those were more in their prime before ben got there and they didn't win crap.

Elite team LOL
So they won SB 40 BECAUSE OF BEN? How did Ben play in that game sir? And We still won
(Enter- Look how Ben played in the Bengals, Colts and Broncos games). Would that matter IF we lost SB 40? NOPE

and if we never even got to superbowl 40...what would have that done?

how many cowher teams go on the road and win a playoff game before ben got there?

especially to a big favorite like the colts?


Wow, the youngest or 2nd youngest QB to reach the SB in histroy was nervous and had a "bad game".

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:40 PM
LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Kreider

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Hoke

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 21 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?

OWNED!!

where were the championships with that great team before XL and the 15-1 team. many of those were more in their prime before ben got there and they didn't win crap.

Elite team LOL
So they won SB 40 BECAUSE OF BEN? How did Ben play in that game sir? And We still won
(Enter- Look how Ben played in the Bengals, Colts and Broncos games). Would that matter IF we lost SB 40? NOPE


whats the record of "elite" QB Warner in superbowls?

only wins matter right?

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 07:41 PM
Tell that to Kurt Warner or Brett Favre.

Kurt Warner is overrated. He pretty stunk after 2001 ended except for a year here and there.

Favre played for the same team for 16 years. Leftwich hasn't been employed by the same team for 16 MONTHS since he left Jacksonville.

YIGH YIGH YIGH
Leftwich has a better record VS Ben while a Jag and thats a fact. Ben was on the better team as well. Watch what Leftwich does with the Steelers WATCH how the offense looks in terms of execution and production. Watch. Warner is NOT overated.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 07:43 PM
[quote]LOOK AT THE STEELRS ROSTER NOW VS THEN. YOU WILL FIND THE ANSWER WHY THERE.

Bettis

Kreider

Townsend

Ward

Faneca

Kendell Simmons

Ike

Hoke

Polamalu

Marvel Smith

Aaron Smith

Brett Kiesel

James Farrior

Larry Foote

Jeff Hartings

Kimo

Hampton

Reed

Porter

Haggans

El

That's 21 players who were on the team when the Browns pasted the Steelers in 2003. They were also on the team in 2005 with Ben when they won XL.

Next?

OWNED!!

where were the championships with that great team before XL and the 15-1 team. many of those were more in their prime before ben got there and they didn't win crap.

Elite team LOL
So they won SB 40 BECAUSE OF BEN? How did Ben play in that game sir? And We still won
(Enter- Look how Ben played in the Bengals, Colts and Broncos games). Would that matter IF we lost SB 40? NOPE


whats the record of "elite" QB Warner in superbowls?

only wins matter right?[/quote:1d1uz1jz]
Warner is a HALL OF FAMER. Had he been on our team we would be better. He's not better than Ben? WOW
LOL

Crash
05-25-2010, 07:46 PM
Leftwich has a better record VS Ben while a Jag and thats a fact.

Um, aren't they 1-1 head to head?

NJ-STEELER
05-25-2010, 07:58 PM
how did warner look like as a NY giant?

when he didn't have the "greatest show on turf"

or the last few years when he could chuck the ball up to an area with 3 defenders around and have fitz come down with it

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:35 PM
Leftwich has a better record VS Ben while a Jag and thats a fact.

Um, aren't they 1-1 head to head?
2-1 SIR

Crash
05-25-2010, 08:38 PM
2-1 SIR

List the games.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:38 PM
how did warner look like as a NY giant?

when he didn't have the "greatest show on turf"

or the last few years when he could chuck the ball up to an area with 3 defenders around and have fitz come down with it
How did Warner look the MAJORITY of his career? Again, HALL OF FAMER. How did the greatest show on turf look WITHOUT HIM? How were Holt and Bruces stats WITH warner vs without him. How was FITZ with Leinart? How was he WITH Warner? Not like Fitz was his only target. Boldin did major Damage as did Breaston. Again, Is Ben better than Warner?
LOL
LOL

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:39 PM
2-1 SIR

List the games.
DO YOUR RESEARCH SIR

Crash
05-25-2010, 08:41 PM
How did Warner look the MAJORITY of his career?

He had six big years and 6 bad ones.

If six solid years makes one a HOF player Ben is well on his way to Canton.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:43 PM
How did Warner look the MAJORITY of his career?

He had six big years and 6 bad ones.

If six solid years makes one a HOF player Ben is well on his way to Canton.
Ben is a GAME MANAGER/ Warner is the PRIMARY reason the rams and Cards were contenders. Warners six "good" years DWARF Bens statistically. But it doesnt surprise me that a HOMER would argue that. WOW
Leftwich beat ben in 05 and 06. Even Garrard has a winning record vs Ben. UGH

Crash
05-25-2010, 08:46 PM
Leftwich beat ben in 05 and 06.

Wrong answer: Leftwich beat MADDOX in 2005.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:49 PM
Leftwich beat ben in 05 and 06.

Wrong answer: Leftwich beat MADDOX in 2005.
OMG YOU GUYS ARE SO GULLIBLE
LOL
WOW

Crash
05-25-2010, 08:51 PM
And since you like to downplay what Ben does? You must do the same for Leftwich against the Steelers in 2005.

:26) (Shotgun) B.Leftwich pass intended for R.Williams INTERCEPTED by B.McFadden at PIT 32. Touchback.

That's right dumdum, in a tie game, with his team in FG range Byron Leftwich threw a pick in the endzone.

Then the Jags scored when a DEFENSIVE PLAYER scored a touchdown.

Don't make me post here more often than I do. I'll send you packing in shame.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:51 PM
Leftwich beat ben in 05 and 06.

Wrong answer: Leftwich beat MADDOX in 2005.
I THINK I am on record as saying "Leftwich will be good JUST BECAUSE HE IS ON THE STEELERS".
Come on dude GEEEEEEEEEEEEZ

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:52 PM
And since you like to downplay what Ben does? You must do the same for Leftwich against the Steelers in 2005.

:26) (Shotgun) B.Leftwich pass intended for R.Williams INTERCEPTED by B.McFadden at PIT 32. Touchback.

That's right dumdum, in a tie game, with his team in FG range Byron Leftwich threw a pick in the endzone.

Then the Jags scored when a DEFENSIVE PLAYER scored a touchdown.

Don't make me post here more often than I do. I'll send you packing in shame.
Like Ben doesnt benefit from DEFENSE LOL
POST HERE PLEASE DO
LOL

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 08:53 PM
THEY LOVE MY "DUMDUM" The more guys that use it the more it validates how effective it is. LOL

Crash
05-25-2010, 08:59 PM
Any QB that wins anything benefits from a defense.

But if you are going to downplay what Ben does. You must do the same for others.

HeHateMe
05-25-2010, 09:08 PM
Any QB that wins anything benefits from a defense.

But if you are going to downplay what Ben does. You must do the same for others.
Read what I have said in regard to Ben, Leftwich, Maddox and Kordell. I said they ALL WON because they are on the STEELERS. Leftwich left and sucked, so did Kordell and Odonnell. Ben will too. Just how it is. The BEST thing about ALL of these guys is THE STEELERS.

Crash
05-25-2010, 09:27 PM
Read what I have said in regard to Ben, Leftwich, Maddox and Kordell. I said they ALL WON because they are on the STEELERS.

So how did the Steelers, miss the playoffs in four of the previous six seasons before Ben?

I already showed you 21 players who on the 6-10 team, but were in two AFC championships and were Super Bowl Champions once Ben arrived.

You can't dispute that. It's fact.

Captain Lemming
05-25-2010, 10:04 PM
I am both Black and am named "Byron".
I've got more in common with Leftwich than anybody on this board.

Dont come with that "its all about race" stuff when you got no clue.

But thanks for exposing YOUR motivation.

Its clearly about race for you. Now I understand completely, how can we be logical with you when bias and emotion is clouding your thinking? :D



FINALLY A REALIST.
The problem is that the Steelers have a BLACK coach. The GOOD OLE BOYS see all of the black bacjup Qbs and they are AFRAID that Ben will lose his job to one of the black qbs. Racists and guys who FAVOR their race are VERY territorial. When Leftwich played well in 08 guys were uneasy. If he does the same this year, they will be all over again. We have a Black coach a black President - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. They have to protect the sanctity of their race, NO MATTER WHAT Ben has done. However, IF Leftwich was the star Qb with two rapes in a year and Ben Rothelisberger were waitnng in the wings, they would be leading the chants to let Byron Go and give Ben a shot. Why do you think MOST white guys dont like boxing and prefer MMA? Its because the stars of MMA are white. Why do you think most white guys prefer College basketball than pro? Because there are more white stars in College than in pro. HOw many will admit to this FACT? NOT MANY

NJ-STEELER
05-26-2010, 02:38 AM
how did warner look like as a NY giant?

when he didn't have the "greatest show on turf"

or the last few years when he could chuck the ball up to an area with 3 defenders around and have fitz come down with it


How was FITZ with Leinart? How was he WITH Warner? Not like Fitz was his only target. Boldin did major Damage as did Breaston. LOL
LOL

you're making my casse for me.

all stars at the receiver position.

wow, future HOFer matt leinart didn't look good with them. when's the last time he did anything significant.

thankfully we didn't stuble into a bust like that... yet, idiots like youstill wish we had another QB


i gave you a roster that wasn't star studded in the giants and he flopped. everywhere else he had great talent arouind him... he did well

NJ-STEELER
05-26-2010, 02:45 AM
taking the QB's out of those Jax games... how do the steelers lose to them if they're so elite?.

getting smacked in the face by their running games. i dont think that should happen to "elite teams"




BTW from bouchete's chat

flatland-steeler: can you give us your take on a scale of 1-10 how close the Steelers came trading Ben ?( and as a follow up R those allowed here?) Has the decision been made to keep Ben no matter what barring another sex-related episode ?

Ed Bouchette: There was never any serious trade talk, despite what you might hear elsewhere. yes, their intent is to keep him.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10145/10 ... z0p11b7Yg9 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10145/1060652-66.stm#ixzz0p11b7Yg9)

SteelAbility
05-26-2010, 11:28 AM
I am both Black and am named "Byron".
I've got more in common with Leftwich than anybody on this board.

Dont come with that "its all about race" stuff when you got no clue.

But thanks for exposing YOUR motivation.

Its clearly about race for you. Now I understand completely, how can we be logical with you when bias and emotion is clouding your thinking? :D



FINALLY A REALIST.
The problem is that the Steelers have a BLACK coach. The GOOD OLE BOYS see all of the black bacjup Qbs and they are AFRAID that Ben will lose his job to one of the black qbs. Racists and guys who FAVOR their race are VERY territorial. When Leftwich played well in 08 guys were uneasy. If he does the same this year, they will be all over again. We have a Black coach a black President - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. They have to protect the sanctity of their race, NO MATTER WHAT Ben has done. However, IF Leftwich was the star Qb with two rapes in a year and Ben Rothelisberger were waitnng in the wings, they would be leading the chants to let Byron Go and give Ben a shot. Why do you think MOST white guys dont like boxing and prefer MMA? Its because the stars of MMA are white. Why do you think most white guys prefer College basketball than pro? Because there are more white stars in College than in pro. HOw many will admit to this FACT? NOT MANY

I'm beginning to believe HHM is not capable of making a rational conclusion to anything.

SteelAbility
05-26-2010, 11:30 AM
HHM, here's your genius logic ...

"If all men named Steve are angry and there is an angry man standing on the street corner, then his name MUST BE Steve." :roll: The truth is that his name could be Ben or Byron and just happens to be angry at that moment. ;)

Same thing with white QB versus black QB. All racists will give preference to a white QB over a black QB (or vice-versa ... because in case you didn't notice, racism can work the other way). A certain individual, in a certain situation prefers a white QB over a black QB. Can you conclude definitively that he is a racist? Hint: See the argument above. If that doesn't work, then I recommend brain surgery.

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Read what I have said in regard to Ben, Leftwich, Maddox and Kordell. I said they ALL WON because they are on the STEELERS.

So how did the Steelers, miss the playoffs in four of the previous six seasons before Ben?

I already showed you 21 players who on the 6-10 team, but were in two AFC championships and were Super Bowl Champions once Ben arrived.

You can't dispute that. It's fact.
The SAME way they missed the Playoffs 2 out of Bens 6 seasons. Elite QB's dont let that happen. SORRY. If Ben is so good WHY don't his numbers bare that fact? The fact is Ben is a GOOD QB on a GREAT team. IF You think Ben is the PRIMARY reason the Steelers win then you are mistaken.

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 05:22 PM
I am both Black and am named "Byron".
I've got more in common with Leftwich than anybody on this board.

Dont come with that "its all about race" stuff when you got no clue.

But thanks for exposing YOUR motivation.

Its clearly about race for you. Now I understand completely, how can we be logical with you when bias and emotion is clouding your thinking? :D



FINALLY A REALIST.
The problem is that the Steelers have a BLACK coach. The GOOD OLE BOYS see all of the black bacjup Qbs and they are AFRAID that Ben will lose his job to one of the black qbs. Racists and guys who FAVOR their race are VERY territorial. When Leftwich played well in 08 guys were uneasy. If he does the same this year, they will be all over again. We have a Black coach a black President - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. They have to protect the sanctity of their race, NO MATTER WHAT Ben has done. However, IF Leftwich was the star Qb with two rapes in a year and Ben Rothelisberger were waitnng in the wings, they would be leading the chants to let Byron Go and give Ben a shot. Why do you think MOST white guys dont like boxing and prefer MMA? Its because the stars of MMA are white. Why do you think most white guys prefer College basketball than pro? Because there are more white stars in College than in pro. HOw many will admit to this FACT? NOT MANY
Ok but you and I BOTH know you are wrong. LOL

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 05:25 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":183rgvyy]how did warner look like as a NY giant?

when he didn't have the "greatest show on turf"

or the last few years when he could chuck the ball up to an area with 3 defenders around and have fitz come down with it


How was FITZ with Leinart? How was he WITH Warner? Not like Fitz was his only target. Boldin did major Damage as did Breaston. LOL
LOL

you're making my casse for me.

all stars at the receiver position.

wow, future HOFer matt leinart didn't look good with them. when's the last time he did anything significant.

thankfully we didn't stuble into a bust like that... yet, idiots like youstill wish we had another QB


i gave you a roster that wasn't star studded in the giants and he flopped. everywhere else he had great talent arouind him... he did well[/quote:183rgvyy]
Kinda LIKE BEN. Funny that Warner was the PRIMARY reason the Greatest show on turf was significant. BEFORE him (Trent Green) how were they? After him (Bulger) how were they? How rellevant were the Cards? Just watch how Whiz and Fitz manage WITHOUT Warner. I'll be here to say I told you so. For you to say that Ben is Better than Kurt Warner is HOMERISM at its finest.

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 05:28 PM
taking the QB's out of those Jax games... how do the steelers lose to them if they're so elite?.

getting smacked in the face by their running games. i dont think that should happen to "elite teams"




BTW from bouchete's chat

flatland-steeler: can you give us your take on a scale of 1-10 how close the Steelers came trading Ben ?( and as a follow up R those allowed here?) Has the decision been made to keep Ben no matter what barring another sex-related episode ?

Ed Bouchette: There was never any serious trade talk, despite what you might hear elsewhere. yes, their intent is to keep him.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10145/10 ... z0p11b7Yg9 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10145/1060652-66.stm#ixzz0p11b7Yg9)
Ed is a beat writer you act like the Rooneys invite him to discussions. LOL What does he know? NOBODY wanted Ben. Bens value was way down at that time. However, it wont be toward the end of his suspension. Some of you guys will need to hide all sharp objects if Ben gets traded lol

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 05:33 PM
HHM, here's your genius logic ...

"If all men named Steve are angry and there is an angry man standing on the street corner, then his name MUST BE Steve." :roll: The truth is that his name could be Ben or Byron and just happens to be angry at that moment. ;)

Same thing with white QB versus black QB. All racists will give preference to a white QB over a black QB (or vice-versa ... because in case you didn't notice, racism can work the other way). A certain individual, in a certain situation prefers a white QB over a black QB. Can you conclude definitively that he is a racist? Hint: See the argument above. If that doesn't work, then I recommend brain surgery.
I never said it did. In fact I labeled it FAVORING ONES RACE. Your guilt has led you to misunderstand me. IF You dont think races favor their race then you are wrong, they most certainly do. Why do you think Steeler fans liked Sean Mchugh or Tyler Grisham? Certainly not for their potential. Its the same way with Bens situation. He gets more of a pass because he looks like us. Now had this been Harrison, Tone etc. The sentiment would not be the same, for the above reasons. Anyone that denies this is not being honest.

feltdizz
05-26-2010, 05:55 PM
There is definitely an annual "This guy has Steeler written all over him" for some random white football player before the draft. However Sweed must have a really good spray tan because this board loves him and he has done nothing.

I have always wondered why Big Snack is treated like a fat slob who never reached his potential and Timmons is seen as a bust.

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 08:50 PM
I dont think people LOVE Sweed. I think we see his potential. I think people are enamored by him. How did that happen? By what we saw on the field, he has shown glimpses of potential. Bad hands yes, but is big, has the ability to get open etc. But what has Mchugh done? Grisham? Come on

hawaiiansteel
05-26-2010, 09:41 PM
I think people are enamored by Sweed


that's obviously only because Sweed is black, would that really have happened if Sweed was white? :roll:

HeHateMe
05-26-2010, 09:51 PM
I think people are enamored by Sweed


that's obviously only because Sweed is black, would that really have happened if Sweed was white? :roll:
You don't have to say much. "They" will eventually expose themselves LOL

hawaiiansteel
05-26-2010, 10:10 PM
I think people are enamored by Sweed


that's obviously only because Sweed is black, would that really have happened if Sweed was white? :roll:
You don't have to say much. "They" will eventually expose themselves LOL


Sticks and Stones Bro, Sticks and Stones. YIGH YIGH YIGH

feltdizz
05-27-2010, 09:39 AM
I dont think people LOVE Sweed. I think we see his potential. I think people are enamored by him. How did that happen? By what we saw on the field, he has shown glimpses of potential. Bad hands yes, but is big, has the ability to get open etc. But what has Mchugh done? Grisham? Come on

Nate got open... Wallace got open.. Grisham got open...

I never understood the "getting open" aspect of Sweeds game. 3rd WR's on our team always seemed to get open due to Hines, Holmes and Miller.

ikestops85
05-27-2010, 11:23 AM
I dont think people LOVE Sweed. I think we see his potential. I think people are enamored by him. How did that happen? By what we saw on the field, he has shown glimpses of potential. Bad hands yes, but is big, has the ability to get open etc. But what has Mchugh done? Grisham? Come on

Nate got open... Wallace got open.. Grisham got open...

I never understood the "getting open" aspect of Sweeds game. 3rd WR's on our team always seemed to get open due to Hines, Holmes and Miller.

Good point Felt. I really wanted to see how Sweed went up and got the ball in traffic. I think that is what our receiver corp lacks. Ward and Heath are okay doing this but we don't have anyone who is really good at it.

fezziwig
05-27-2010, 07:14 PM
I was watching the Steelers 1974 tribute on TV with Joe Green talking about their first Super Bowl season and it's great to watch.

With all that took place to get the first Super Bowl and getting four Super Bowls in all for that era or decade this, is what Joe Green said at the end about those Super Bowl teams.


" We didn't win any Super Bowls before Franco and we didn't
win any after Franco. "


You can say or I will say the same thing about Ben. Ben is the reason we have won our two Super Bowls. He didn't have an off the chart game against the Seahawks but he was the reason that we got to the Super Bowl and his contribution in that Super Bowl were good enough.

With all those Bill Cowher number one runnning teams, number one defenses couldn't get him a Super Bowl until Ben. Now we still have a terrific defense and that alone wouldn't have been enough under Tomlins coaching if it hadn't been for Ben.

You can have all your ducks in a row but eventually some other team comes along and takes away your strength, or whatever . Ben is the X-factor to winning. Just like Franco and infact, he's a better boost to the team than Franco.

Preacher
05-28-2010, 12:05 AM
Incredible.

OK. A tad bit of backstory.

Ben- I think his offseason stuff is pure idiocy. But that doesn't change the fact that he is the best QB this team has seen since the late 70's. He will NOT be benched for Lefty. He MAY... sit an extra game or two if he is not ready to step in right away (I still don't know if he can be with the team once the season begins). But that is ONLY if Lefty wins us 3 of 4 or better.

I think getting lefty was the best choice of the given situation. But Ben puts us further down the road to the SB any day of the week.

EDIT: Oh wait... it was Madden that wrote that? Yeah, that figures!

o sensei
05-28-2010, 01:49 AM
Bottom line....

Madden is a blowhard, the school bully of the pittsburgh sportsjockey world without the chops or the balls to back up his bravado.

When Big Ben is ready...he will play. Just my opinion, but if we've seen anything from tomlin its a very cowherlike willingness to let his qb play through a midgame slump. He's loyal...and will give the two time SB champ his shot, as he should. I'd be stunned if Ben isn't starting by week 7, sadly also stunned if they are 4-0 headed to the bye. For them to go 4-0 means whomever is under center is mistake free, the running game which eluded them at the most critical times last season has magically, alarmingly turned itself around and the lebeau defense which couldnt stop gradkowski or the junior leaguer from KC suddenly finds itself again.

Ben Roethlisberger is the franchise qb of the pittsburgh steelers, neither baby face leftwich, nor dennis "can I run yet" dixon have what it takes to change that, you know it, I know it, the rest of the damn league knows it and you can bet your B hind Tomlin knows it. Madden is still ticked the pens are done, theres nothing but minor league baseball to gripe about and he still hasn't found anyone desperate enough in this town to sleep with him. :Cheers

DanRooney
05-28-2010, 02:11 AM
At least everyone has stopped with their wishing thinking concerning Dixon starting.

RushHard34
05-28-2010, 02:25 AM
At least everyone has stopped with their wishing thinking concerning Dixon starting.

I think he still has great potential, and think he would be fine if he started. But ill be happy with whoever we have at the helm, i have faith in our coaches.

Preacher
05-28-2010, 02:39 AM
At least everyone has stopped with their wishing thinking concerning Dixon starting.

Exactly.

Hey, the kid has some skills. But to expect him to be able to carry this team through 4-6 games is a bit much.

o sensei
05-28-2010, 02:45 AM
At least everyone has stopped with their wishing thinking concerning Dixon starting.

Exactly.

Hey, the kid has some skills. But to expect him to be able to carry this team through 4-6 games is a bit much.


Completely agree. I think the idea....of a competent dennis dixon stepping in with his athletecism is pretty enticing, but the reality is he's at best a work in progress, would limit the playbook and though he has tremendous arm strength is just not a polished passer.

fezziwig
05-28-2010, 08:56 AM
Dixon will never be much more than he is now, a filler for practice and a backup for a backup. Wasn't it Anthony Wright we had at one time ? These two seem similar with the same style of play but, Anthony Wright seemed to be better than Dixon and what team is Wright starting for ? Is he even in the league these days ?

We waited since Bradshaw for a QB with Bens talent and when he finally arrives, people want to start talk that Dixon or Leftwich or any good luck story can now be the starter or the replacement.

I'm sure there are some players that do develope late but, why worry about it when you have a QB with Bens talents.

Captain Lemming
05-28-2010, 09:50 AM
I am sorry but the kid aint a rookie. If the staff is so lacking in confidence in Dixon that they have to trade for someone to play a handful of games makes me think he aint all that. Year 3 Leftwich was a starter in this league.



At least everyone has stopped with their wishing thinking concerning Dixon starting.

Exactly.

Hey, the kid has some skills. But to expect him to be able to carry this team through 4-6 games is a bit much.

SteelerEmpire
05-28-2010, 10:08 AM
Ok... another smart madden comment...

Dino 6 Rings
05-28-2010, 12:38 PM
My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.

siss
05-28-2010, 12:52 PM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss

RuthlessBurgher
05-28-2010, 02:01 PM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss

At least you didn't say Hayabusa. :wink:

HeHateMe
05-28-2010, 03:22 PM
My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

HeHateMe
05-28-2010, 03:24 PM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss
WANNA BET. WE WILL SEE A TRENT GREEN/KURT WARNER, BRETT FAVRE/DON MAJIKOWSKI, TOM BRADY/DREW BLEDSOE, BYRON LEFTWICH/DAVID GARRARD SCENARIO IN PITTSBURGH. GET YOUR HANKIES READY, WHEN IT HAPPENS.......SNIFF SNIFF

SteelCrazy
05-28-2010, 03:31 PM
My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

You dont give enough credit to Ben.....if we had to ride Lefty in the playoffs, we would be one and done.....Ben wins the big games...If Lefty could win in the post season he would still be in Florida.

Preacher
05-28-2010, 03:33 PM
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

Um. I don't think BEN anything to do with our defense crumbling in the fourth quarter. I don't think BEN has anything to do with our offensive line becoming mediocre at best. I don't think BEN has anything to do with our inability to get off the field on 3rd down last year. I KNOW Ben didn't go out and injure Troy P. Aaron Smith, Willie P. etc. etc.

Also, how many QB's in their prime are inches away from death, then have emergency surgery the week of the first game, and STILL lead their team to be half a game out of the playoffs?

That's right, both years, we were HALF A GAME out of the playoffs.

Captain Lemming
05-28-2010, 08:37 PM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss
WANNA BET. WE WILL SEE A TRENT GREEN/KURT WARNER, BRETT FAVRE/DON MAJIKOWSKI, TOM BRADY/DREW BLEDSOE, BYRON LEFTWICH/DAVID GARRARD SCENARIO IN PITTSBURGH. GET YOUR HANKIES READY, WHEN IT HAPPENS.......SNIFF SNIFF

And since at the most ONE of the two pairs actually won a SB, and Ben has won one if the pattern follows Leftwich will never win one.

Also in your list it was the established veteran who FAILED to win the SB, (one of which was Leftwich) got replaced.

Your point?

Tell me genius when EVER has a two time champion lost his job "while in his prime" to an OLDER veteran who failed everyplace else he has been?

:owned AGAIN with you own lame attempt to make a point.

Captain Lemming
05-28-2010, 08:51 PM
My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

So let me get this straight. Ben gets no credit for SBs. These are "team" accomplishments
But it is all his fault if we miss the playoffs while he is breaking team passing records.

Are wins "team" accomplishments or do they truly reflect the QB?

Please explain your blatant inconsistancy.

hawaiiansteel
05-28-2010, 10:06 PM
My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.


http://stillernation.com/phpbb/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

stlrz d
05-28-2010, 10:11 PM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss
WANNA BET. WE WILL SEE A TRENT GREEN/KURT WARNER, BRETT FAVRE/DON MAJIKOWSKI, TOM BRADY/DREW BLEDSOE, BYRON LEFTWICH/DAVID GARRARD SCENARIO IN PITTSBURGH. GET YOUR HANKIES READY, WHEN IT HAPPENS.......SNIFF SNIFF

And since at the most ONE of the two pairs actually won a SB, and Ben has won one if the pattern follows Leftwich will never win one.

Also in your list it was the established veteran who FAILED to win the SB, (one of which was Leftwich) got replaced.

Your point?

Tell me genius when EVER has a two time champion lost his job "while in his prime" to an OLDER veteran who failed everyplace else he has been?

:owned AGAIN with you own lame attempt to make a point.

He got more than owned...he got Welkered.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l50/ropewalk_2006/clark.gif

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 04:39 AM
My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

You dont give enough credit to Ben.....if we had to ride Lefty in the playoffs, we would be one and done.....Ben wins the big games...If Lefty could win in the post season he would still be in Florida.
How'd Ben do in the Playoffs last season? Howd he do is SB 40? We were winning SB 43 17-7 without a PEEP from Ben. Give the STEELERS credit. Put Ben in Tampa or the Raiders and do you think he leads them to a Title? PFFFFFFFFFFFT

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 04:44 AM
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

Um. I don't think BEN anything to do with our defense crumbling in the fourth quarter. I don't think BEN has anything to do with our offensive line becoming mediocre at best. I don't think BEN has anything to do with our inability to get off the field on 3rd down last year. I KNOW Ben didn't go out and injure Troy P. Aaron Smith, Willie P. etc. etc.

Also, how many QB's in their prime are inches away from death, then have emergency surgery the week of the first game, and STILL lead their team to be half a game out of the playoffs?

That's right, both years, we were HALF A GAME out of the playoffs.
There is ALWAYS an excuse for the RAPIST. What about the Defense who won him a SB in 08? You know the year we had the toughest schedule and he had TWENTY THREE turnovers? They had his back WHY couldnt he have theirs. IF Ben had led the offense to TD'S instead of FG'S, the late collapses wouldnt have mattered. You see he orchestrated a offense that were 23rd in the redzone. PATHETIC.
Oh here we go with the 06 accident again. If the DUMDUM would have worn a helmet like Cowher told him too he wouldnt of been "near death". For your info the accident was in JULY. Steelers 1st game was in SEPTEMBER. He did have surgery before the Jags game (apendectomy). He COST us the season. Period. But I KNOW I KNOW, it wasnt his fault for not wearing a helmet. Wasnt even his fault for doing it again AFTER the accident either. I GET IT LOL

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 04:51 AM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss
WANNA BET. WE WILL SEE A TRENT GREEN/KURT WARNER, BRETT FAVRE/DON MAJIKOWSKI, TOM BRADY/DREW BLEDSOE, BYRON LEFTWICH/DAVID GARRARD SCENARIO IN PITTSBURGH. GET YOUR HANKIES READY, WHEN IT HAPPENS.......SNIFF SNIFF

And since at the most ONE of the two pairs actually won a SB, and Ben has won one if the pattern follows Leftwich will never win one.

Also in your list it was the established veteran who FAILED to win the SB, (one of which was Leftwich) got replaced.

Your point?

Tell me genius when EVER has a two time champion lost his job "while in his prime" to an OLDER veteran who failed everyplace else he has been?

:owned AGAIN with you own lame attempt to make a point.
The decision by Del Rio to start Garrard over Leftwich will cost him his job. HOW Did Leftwich fail in Jacksonville? He was the franchise qb. The coach just didnt like him. A move the WHOLE team hated. Do you think Garrard is better than Leftwich? I do not. Ben is a two time winning Qb because he is on the Steelers. Thats like Ike Taylor bragging to Champ Bailey that he is a two time winning corner so "I'm better". Leftwich is more polished than Ben and he works at his trade. Ben is lazy, doesnt work with his receivers and thats why he has NO timing. Seen his deep ball lately? Can you say FAIR CATCH. The defense gives him EXTRA chances until he FINALLY gets it right. Ben is the ONLY qb in history to have to comeback with a DOMINANT defense. Bradshaw wasnt known as a comeback qb. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because he took advantage of his dominant D and scored points to put us ahead, way ahead. Ben has 1 TD AND 3 INTS IN SUPER BOWLS. HELLOOOOOOOOOOO. The STEELERS make him look good. Not the other way around.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 05:01 AM
[quote="Dino 6 Rings":toqc93l0]My take on the "if Byron does well he stays in" issue is as follows.

Ben was not drafted in the 1st round to win regular season games. We didn't and don't really need him to win Regular Season games.

Ben is in Pittsburgh for one reason. To win in the Post Season.

That is why Ben will get the starting job back, regardless of how well Byron, or Dixon for that matter do while he is riding the pine. Its all about Post Season wins.
How many great qb's let their team miss the playoffs in the PRIMES barring injury? Ben has missed two playoffs AFTER SB wins. Makes it seem like our wins are an anomaly. You guys give too much credit to Ben and not enough credit to the STEELERS. You'll see the light when we win with Leftwich and instead of giving HIM the credit you will come to realize that it is not HIM, its' the TEAM. MARK THESE WORDS.

So let me get this straight. Ben gets no credit for SBs. These are "team" accomplishments
But it is all his fault if we miss the playoffs while he is breaking team passing records.

Are wins "team" accomplishments or do they truly reflect the QB?

Please explain your blatant inconsistancy.[/quote:toqc93l0]
When did I say Ben gets NO CREDIT? Have I EVER called him a Bum? No sir. I say what he is- A GOOD QB, he is not great NOR elite. That is what I say. Ben had his best statistical season last year and what did it produce? It produced a non playoff season. When he didnt have a dominant defense we didnt make the playoffs. The previous year we did have a dominant defense and we went 12-4 and won the title- DESPITE our Qb turning the ball over TWENTY THREE TIMES and having the 23rd rushing offense. So you tell me WHY we won? It was the D. Did Ben contribute? OF COURSE HE DID. All I"m saying is he is not the primary reason we win, last season proves that. WHY cant Ben be what he is, a good QB on a GREAT team. WHAT is wrong with saying the Steelers are GREAT and Ben is good? What is wrong with that?

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 05:03 AM
[quote=siss]Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss
WANNA BET. WE WILL SEE A TRENT GREEN/KURT WARNER, BRETT FAVRE/DON MAJIKOWSKI, TOM BRADY/DREW BLEDSOE, BYRON LEFTWICH/DAVID GARRARD SCENARIO IN PITTSBURGH. GET YOUR HANKIES READY, WHEN IT HAPPENS.......SNIFF SNIFF

And since at the most ONE of the two pairs actually won a SB, and Ben has won one if the pattern follows Leftwich will never win one.

Also in your list it was the established veteran who FAILED to win the SB, (one of which was Leftwich) got replaced.

Your point?

Tell me genius when EVER has a two time champion lost his job "while in his prime" to an OLDER veteran who failed everyplace else he has been?

:owned AGAIN with you own lame attempt to make a point.

He got more than owned...he got Welkered.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l50/ropewalk_2006/clark.gif[/quote:b4taqvhx]
That would be CLARKED sir

DanRooney
05-29-2010, 05:04 AM
Yep, HeHateMe is an idiot :Blah

Let me guess, you're steelerdawgswag from steelersfever?

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 05:08 AM
Yep, HeHateMe is an idiot :Blah

Let me guess, you're steelerdawgswag from steelersfever?
Thx for the compliment sir. Coming from the one who cant devise a compelling argument to refute what I said. I'm not on the fever sorry bud.

fordfixer
05-29-2010, 10:11 AM
Yep, HeHateMe is an idiot :Blah

Let me guess, you're steelerdawgswag from steelersfever?


No HehateMe is 20-year-old college student, form Milledgeville, Ga.

Sugar
05-29-2010, 10:12 AM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss

Don't worry, Byron is getting it in "Valet Mode" so he won't be able to do any damage. :wink:

decleater
05-29-2010, 10:31 AM
I don't understand why anyone would be bashing Lefty. Last time I looked he was wearing a Steeler uni. Further, I don't care who plays QB as long as the Steeler's are in 'win' mode. It's all about the team!

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Yep, HeHateMe is an idiot :Blah

Let me guess, you're steelerdawgswag from steelersfever?


No HehateMe is 20-year-old college student, form Milledgeville, Ga.
Ben the Victim. His first name is VIC and his last name is TIM

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 02:33 PM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss

Don't worry, Byron is getting it in "Valet Mode" so he won't be able to do any damage. :wink:
He is setting the table for the "EXCUSE". Just like when Tomlin won. He didnt get any credit. "Tomlin won with Cowhers team". So IF Byron is successful the statement will be "He did it with Bens team". Funny Byron wont have NEAR the weapons that Ben had last seaon (9-7)

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 02:34 PM
I don't understand why anyone would be bashing Lefty. Last time I looked he was wearing a Steeler uni. Further, I don't care who plays QB as long as the Steeler's are in 'win' mode. It's all about the team!
My SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!!!
They bash him because they care more about Ben than the STEELERS. If Byron led us to a 19-0 season it would be bittersweet to them BECAUSE Ben didnt lead us. SAD

NJ-STEELER
05-29-2010, 03:36 PM
interesting
NFL.com has ben with 15 INTs and 7 fumbles lost in 08

i guess to be elite, one should have 21.... the number kurt 'elite' warner had the same year.... even with fitz going up and grabbing jump balls from him...amazing


BTW, in those 2 SB games where he threw 3 INTs, did any of them wind up a pick 6 that ultimately was the difference in a SB loss? like kurt did 2 times??

slashsteel
05-29-2010, 04:38 PM
With what the Steelers have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

Prok
05-29-2010, 04:44 PM
With what the Steeler have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

You pretty much nailed it Slash. I put that hehateme character on iggy. We need to move on past Ben's mistakes and become one team and fanbase geared toward contending again. :tt1

Preacher
05-29-2010, 06:30 PM
With what the Steeler have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

I'd definitely say top.

Not sure if I would go elite yet. I'd say he is one of the top what... 5-7 maybe?

Brady (Not counting the fact that knowing the defensive plays before hand flattened his learning curve so much that he really shouldn't be counted here).

Manning. LIke him or don't like him, an elite QB, he absolutely is.

Breez. Come of age as a pure QB.

Then there is a cluster which I think Ben is the top of. My problem with Ben, is that he still has a couple weak points which keep biting him in very important times. 1. HE throws the ball low, allowing it to get batted down too much. 2. He underthrows deep routes. Those two things have, at times, hurt us.

If he fixed those things, I think his ability to control a game would right there with Manning, who, IMO, is the best at controlling a game right now. We see glimpses of it all the time. But it needs to become consistent for me to consider him ELITE.

He is however, WELL on his way.

But one other thing to remember, a FRANCHISE QB is one that avoids not just being convicted, but bringing focus on himself in the offseason, allowing the team to focus on rebuiling (or, in the Steelers case, since we don't rebuild, reloading) for the next year.

He needs to get his head on straight... In order to be a TRUE franchise QB.

(Not claiming guilt or innocence for Ben, Just claiming his stupidity for putting himself in that position again.) First time, shame on you, second time, shame on me. Ben should have learned his lesson.

Prok
05-29-2010, 06:38 PM
With what the Steeler have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

I'd definitely say top.

Not sure if I would go elite yet. I'd say he is one of the top what... 5-7 maybe?

Brady (Not counting the fact that knowing the defensive plays before hand flattened his learning curve so much that he really shouldn't be counted here).

Manning. LIke him or don't like him, an elite QB, he absolutely is.

Breez. Come of age as a pure QB.

Then there is a cluster which I think Ben is the top of. My problem with Ben, is that he still has a couple weak points which keep biting him in very important times. 1. HE throws the ball low, allowing it to get batted down too much. 2. He underthrows deep routes. Those two things have, at times, hurt us.

If he fixed those things, I think his ability to control a game would right there with Manning, who, IMO, is the best at controlling a game right now. We see glimpses of it all the time. But it needs to become consistent for me to consider him ELITE.

He is however, WELL on his way.

But one other thing to remember, a FRANCHISE QB is one that avoids not just being convicted, but bringing focus on himself in the offseason, allowing the team to focus on rebuiling (or, in the Steelers case, since we don't rebuild, reloading) for the next year.

He needs to get his head on straight... In order to be a TRUE franchise QB.

(Not claiming guilt or innocence for Ben, Just claiming his stupidity for putting himself in that position again.) First time, shame on you, second time, shame on me. Ben should have learned his lesson.

Fair enough Preacher. With Ben coming into his prime i believe he's set to establish himself as modern day Elway

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 06:53 PM
interesting
NFL.com has ben with 15 INTs and 7 fumbles lost in 08

i guess to be elite, one should have 21.... the number kurt 'elite' warner had the same year.... even with fitz going up and grabbing jump balls from him...amazing


BTW, in those 2 SB games where he threw 3 INTs, did any of them wind up a pick 6 that ultimately was the difference in a SB loss? like kurt did 2 times??
Kurt never played for the GREAT Steelers. Kurt is a League MVP. Kurt will be a HALL OF FAMER. Bens success is predicated on the TEAM he is on. Thats why he has ONE Pro Bowl and ONE Team MVP. Kurt turns SORRY teams into contenders, like the rams and Cards. Put Ben on the Bills and SEE if they contend. Ben has too many bad habits to survive on a bad team.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 06:56 PM
With what the Steeler have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

Coming from behind because of the EXTRA opportunities the defense gives him. Where was that comeback MAGIC, when the defense had a down year? Research last year games and SEE how many EXTRA opportunities (play count) that our offense had VS the opposnents. THAT'S why he comes back because the defense allows him extra opportunities to finally get it right. Imagine Bradshaw having to COMEBACK with that great D?. Point is IF you have to COMEBACK with a great defense then you arent doing your job from quarter 1-3.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 07:01 PM
With what the Steeler have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

I'd definitely say top.

Not sure if I would go elite yet. I'd say he is one of the top what... 5-7 maybe?

Brady (Not counting the fact that knowing the defensive plays before hand flattened his learning curve so much that he really shouldn't be counted here).

Manning. LIke him or don't like him, an elite QB, he absolutely is.

Breez. Come of age as a pure QB.

Then there is a cluster which I think Ben is the top of. My problem with Ben, is that he still has a couple weak points which keep biting him in very important times. 1. HE throws the ball low, allowing it to get batted down too much. 2. He underthrows deep routes. Those two things have, at times, hurt us.

If he fixed those things, I think his ability to control a game would right there with Manning, who, IMO, is the best at controlling a game right now. We see glimpses of it all the time. But it needs to become consistent for me to consider him ELITE.

He is however, WELL on his way.

But one other thing to remember, a FRANCHISE QB is one that avoids not just being convicted, but bringing focus on himself in the offseason, allowing the team to focus on rebuiling (or, in the Steelers case, since we don't rebuild, reloading) for the next year.

He needs to get his head on straight... In order to be a TRUE franchise QB.

(Not claiming guilt or innocence for Ben, Just claiming his stupidity for putting himself in that position again.) First time, shame on you, second time, shame on me. Ben should have learned his lesson.
I agree with this post 100% Guys act like he is the perfect Qb with no flaws. Thats ludicrous. Ben is good. You will NEVER see me post that he is not. But Ben is DUMB off the field and DUMB on it at times. He is below average in the redzone as well. Throws ALOT of picks down there. KC last season, Browns in 08, Cards in 07, Raiders in 06, Pats in 04. It happens too often.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 07:08 PM
With what the Steeler have accomplished under Ben, it is bordering on lunacy for anyone who doesn't think he is a elite QB in this league. With Ben you know he has the "it". With two minutes left in the game, and coming from behind. There is no QB in the NFL that is more clutch than Ben.

I'd definitely say top.

Not sure if I would go elite yet. I'd say he is one of the top what... 5-7 maybe?

Brady (Not counting the fact that knowing the defensive plays before hand flattened his learning curve so much that he really shouldn't be counted here).

Manning. LIke him or don't like him, an elite QB, he absolutely is.

Breez. Come of age as a pure QB.

Then there is a cluster which I think Ben is the top of. My problem with Ben, is that he still has a couple weak points which keep biting him in very important times. 1. HE throws the ball low, allowing it to get batted down too much. 2. He underthrows deep routes. Those two things have, at times, hurt us.

If he fixed those things, I think his ability to control a game would right there with Manning, who, IMO, is the best at controlling a game right now. We see glimpses of it all the time. But it needs to become consistent for me to consider him ELITE.

He is however, WELL on his way.

But one other thing to remember, a FRANCHISE QB is one that avoids not just being convicted, but bringing focus on himself in the offseason, allowing the team to focus on rebuiling (or, in the Steelers case, since we don't rebuild, reloading) for the next year.

He needs to get his head on straight... In order to be a TRUE franchise QB.

(Not claiming guilt or innocence for Ben, Just claiming his stupidity for putting himself in that position again.) First time, shame on you, second time, shame on me. Ben should have learned his lesson.

Fair enough Preacher. With Ben coming into his prime i believe he's set to establish himself as modern day Elway

Elway? That is Blasphemy! Elway led POOR teams to the Super Bowl. Ben's team is ELITE. When Elway finally got a elite team LOOK at the records he posted and the results. Ben has had a good D and running game his whole career. Elway did not. Elway was FEARED. The Steelers D is feared. Ben is respected, NOT feared. Elway had LOTS of comebacks because the team he was on warranted that. BUT when he got an elite team, HOW MANY comebacks did he have? Not many. There were ALOT of BLOWOUTS as should be the case with us IF Ben ran a efficient offense.

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 07:13 PM
Personally, I don't care if Ben is considered "elite" or not. I care about whether we win or not. Regardless of his numbers or "elite status", Ben is a proven winner, period.

And that's all I have to say about that.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 07:22 PM
The STEELERS are a proven winner. Thats like Deshae Townsend being called a winner because he is on our team or Batch. The STEELERS are a good team with or without Ben as they proved in BOTH of the SBs while Ben was on the team. Ben has ONE TD and THREE INTS in those games (tied with ARE for TD passes). Ben is a big piece to that puzzle but to say that "Ben is a winner" slights the rest of the guys. The STEELERS are WINNERS. Do you think Ben is a winner in Buffalo? I do not.

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 07:27 PM
The STEELERS are a proven winner. Thats like Deshae Townsend being called a winner because he is on our team or Batch. The STEELERS are a good team with or without Ben as they proved in BOTH of the SBs while Ben was on the team. Ben has ONE TD and THREE INTS in those games (tied with ARE for TD passes). Ben is a big piece to that puzzle but to say that "Ben is a winner" slights the rest of the guys. The STEELERS are WINNERS. Do you think Ben is a winner in Buffalo? I do not.

Sure. Compare Big Ben's importance to the Steelers Win/Loss record with Townsend or Batch. That makes perfect sense.

Yawn. I might be the last person to not have you on ignore so you might want to try harder. Saying Ben is a winner is called a fact. If you don't believe so look at his W/L record. Yes, Townsend and Batch are both winners as well. Are they as important to our success? Don't think so.

Don't know how Ben would do in Buffalo as he's never been there. I can tell you what he's done here. He's been a winner, whether you like it or not. :wink:

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 07:45 PM
Letwich was also a winner with us what happened when he left? Same with Kordell, O'donnell and anyone else. Winners win wherever they go. You wont answer the bills question because you KNOW the answer. Ben has won because he is on the Steelers JUST like Townsend. Townsend gets cut and he is out of the league. Ben wont be out of the league but he sure wont have the same amount of success. You know that and your answer or lack thereof substantiates that. In regard to a ignore feature.... Do you think I care who ignore me? Come on bro, I am a man, a STEELER. I have never ran from a fight, debate or any type of competition no matter how good the competition. Those that choose to ignore me that is their right. More power to them. If you do the same, more power to you. I'll tell you this NO MAN will ever make me tuck my tail and ignore them. Trust me sir.

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 07:53 PM
JFC. Here we go again.


Letwich was also a winner with us what happened when he left? Same with Kordell, O'donnell and anyone else. Winners win wherever they go.

How much do you want to bet that all but 5 or 6 teams would prefer to have Ben than their current QB? Let me guess though. You know more than all of them. Sure.


You wont answer the bills question because you KNOW the answer.

Yes, I KNOW the answer. The answer is there's no way to know because he's never been on the Bills. Yawn.


Ben has won because he is on the Steelers JUST like Townsend. Townsend gets cut and he is out of the league. Ben wont be out of the league but he sure wont have the same amount of success.

Did I ever say that he would have the same amount of success? Don't recall that. There's a reason the Steelers are my favorite team ya know lol.


You know that and your answer or lack thereof substantiates that.

You're asking a question that is impossible to answer. Therefore I do not answer it. Period.
If you would like me to speculate I would say the Bills would be a hell of a lot better with him but he wouldn't have the same success that he did here because the STEELERS RULE. What are you arguing about again?


In regard to a ignore feature.... Do you think I care who ignore me? Come on bro, I am a man, a STEELER. I have never ran from a fight, debate or any type of competition no matter how good the competition. Those that choose to ignore me that is their right. More power to them. If you do the same, more power to you. I'll tell you this NO MAN will ever make me tuck my tail and ignore them. Trust me sir.

I typically do not ignore people either. However, if they prove themselves incapable of rational discourse I typically choose not to further interact with them.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 08:01 PM
JFC. Here we go again.

[quote=HeHateMe]Letwich was also a winner with us what happened when he left? Same with Kordell, O'donnell and anyone else. Winners win wherever they go.


How much do you want to bet that all but 5 or 6 teams would prefer to have Ben than their current QB? Let me guess though. You know more than all of them. Sure.
Then WHY Didnt they trade for him then? Do tell.

You wont answer the bills question because you KNOW the answer.


Yes, I KNOW the answer. The answer is there's no way to know because he's never been on the Bills. Yawn.

Thanks I got my answer LOL


Ben has won because he is on the Steelers JUST like Townsend. Townsend gets cut and he is out of the league. Ben wont be out of the league but he sure wont have the same amount of success.


Did I ever say that he would have the same amount of success? Don't recall that. There's a reason the Steelers are my favorite team ya know lol.

No you just said "Ben is a winner" that implies that the Steelers would be screwed without him. I disagree and you will see that in the four games that he misses.


You know that and your answer or lack thereof substantiates that.


You're asking a question that is impossible to answer. Therefore I do not answer it. Period.
If you would like me to speculate I would say the Bills would be a hell of a lot better with him but he wouldn't have the same success that he did here because the STEELERS RULE. What are you arguing about again?

How am I arguing I have been saying that very fact since I got here. In fact CHECK my posts for verification. THE STEELERS RULE. I havent said that? I guess it sounds better when YOU say it.


In regard to a ignore feature.... Do you think I care who ignore me? Come on bro, I am a man, a STEELER. I have never ran from a fight, debate or any type of competition no matter how good the competition. Those that choose to ignore me that is their right. More power to them. If you do the same, more power to you. I'll tell you this NO MAN will ever make me tuck my tail and ignore them. Trust me sir.

I typically do not ignore people either. However, if they prove themselves incapable of rational discourse I typically choose not to further interact with them.[/quote:1gq5tkkh]
I concur. I maintain that I have said nothing irrational. Just opion. I don't know why people get bent out of shape because of my opinion. I certainly don't when they oppose that opinion. Nothing wrong with Being Diametrically Opposed.

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 08:06 PM
If you could learn how to quote properly it would make this a lot easier. Just sayin.

-They didn't trade him because they didn't want to.

-I'm glad you got your answer, whatever it was.

-Saying "Ben is a winner" doesn't imply that the Steelers wouldn't have success without him. Not sure where you're getting this from but it's just straight up irrational and makes no sense. Troy is also a winner. We still won some without him, didn't we? What are you talking about? It's not logically inconsistent to say that Ben is a winner and the Steelers organization are also winners. It's not logically inconsistent to say Ben is a winner and for us to go 4-0 without him.

-If we're both saying the same thing then stop arguing. Not sure what your problem is, and I don't particularly care.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 08:13 PM
If you could learn how to quote properly it would make this a lot easier. Just sayin.

-[quote]They didn't trade him because they didn't want to. -

No I said "Why didnt those teams" trade for Ben IF they wanted him so badly over their own Qb's?


I'm glad you got your answer, whatever it was.

Me too. Thx

-
Saying "Ben is a winner" doesn't imply that the Steelers wouldn't have success without him. Not sure where you're getting this from but it's just straight up irrational and makes no sense. Troy is also a winner. We still won some without him, didn't we? What are you talking about? It's not logically inconsistent to say that Ben is a winner and the Steelers organization are also winners. It's not logically inconsistent to say Ben is a winner and for us to go 4-0 without him.

Troy is more important to the Steelers than Ben is. Our D was *ss without him. Our offense didnt miss a beat without Ben and wont this season either. In fact we SHOULD have beaten the Ravens with a 1ST time starter at QB. That should tell you something. Dixon is not a good QB and we still should have won that game.


-If we're both saying the same thing then stop arguing. Not sure what your problem is, and I don't particularly care.[/quote:1prqf6mp]

Arguing? Sorry if you are confused. I'm certainly NOT arguing. Sorry to disappoint

Prok
05-29-2010, 08:17 PM
The STEELERS are a proven winner. Thats like Deshae Townsend being called a winner because he is on our team or Batch. The STEELERS are a good team with or without Ben as they proved in BOTH of the SBs while Ben was on the team. Ben has ONE TD and THREE INTS in those games (tied with ARE for TD passes). Ben is a big piece to that puzzle but to say that "Ben is a winner" slights the rest of the guys. The STEELERS are WINNERS. Do you think Ben is a winner in Buffalo? I do not.

Sure. Compare Big Ben's importance to the Steelers Win/Loss record with Townsend or Batch. That makes perfect sense.

Yawn. I might be the last person to not have you on ignore so you might want to try harder. Saying Ben is a winner is called a fact. If you don't believe so look at his W/L record. Yes, Townsend and Batch are both winners as well. Are they as important to our success? Don't think so.

Don't know how Ben would do in Buffalo as he's never been there. I can tell you what he's done here. He's been a winner, whether you like it or not. :wink:

I admire your patience. And you have my full respect. I HATE to put ppl on ignore as well but in this case it's warranted. I hope the poster can change and engage in good discussion though.

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 08:18 PM
How were they supposed to trade for Ben when he wasn't being traded? If there is any merit to your position it is only because of his off-the-field antics, not his on-the-field play. I will maintain that all but maybe 5 or 6 teams in the NFL would prefer to have Ben to whoever they have now.

I think Ben and Troy are about equally important. If you are incapable of seeing what propels Ben to being one of the top 10 QBs in the league then I can't help you and I don't care to.

Since we're not arguing is that it?

DanRooney
05-29-2010, 08:22 PM
-Ben is a top 7 quarterback in this league. You don't post 98+ passer ratings in 4 out of 6 seasons and break almost every single Steelers single season passer rating for being less than that.

-You mention Ben struggling in the Super Bowls, but he was arguably the MVP in the last one. He deserved it more than Eli or Peyton did respectively in theres. You also fail to mention how great Ben is in the postseason. Even with that horrible passer rating in Super Bowl XL, he still finished all 4 playoff games with over a 100 passer rating collectively.

-Ben has an IT factor that only a very few have in this league. He is clutch in big time situations. His ability to move the ball all the way down the field when the team is down in the 4th quarter is ridiculous. You look at Tom Brady as one of the only others.

-You mentioned Ben hasn't made the playoffs in the seasons he went to the Super Bowl. Really dude? You blame this year on him? Let's look at the loses...Cincinnati twice Ben scores late in the game only to have James Farrior wiff in the flats on 4th down on a 4th string runningback, KC he comes back with a game leading TD late in the game, and in Oakland he comes back with a game leading TD with less than TWO minutes left to Hines Ward only to have the D blow it

-Leftwich is not more polished at anything.

-You're making fun of Ben's deep ball when he's one of the top QBs in yards/catch?

-Ben's completion percentage is ridiculous, especially on 3rd down.

Any more retarded arguments or are you done?

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 08:33 PM
The STEELERS are a proven winner. Thats like Deshae Townsend being called a winner because he is on our team or Batch. The STEELERS are a good team with or without Ben as they proved in BOTH of the SBs while Ben was on the team. Ben has ONE TD and THREE INTS in those games (tied with ARE for TD passes). Ben is a big piece to that puzzle but to say that "Ben is a winner" slights the rest of the guys. The STEELERS are WINNERS. Do you think Ben is a winner in Buffalo? I do not.

Sure. Compare Big Ben's importance to the Steelers Win/Loss record with Townsend or Batch. That makes perfect sense.

Yawn. I might be the last person to not have you on ignore so you might want to try harder. Saying Ben is a winner is called a fact. If you don't believe so look at his W/L record. Yes, Townsend and Batch are both winners as well. Are they as important to our success? Don't think so.

Don't know how Ben would do in Buffalo as he's never been there. I can tell you what he's done here. He's been a winner, whether you like it or not. :wink:

I admire your patience. And you have my full respect. I HATE to put ppl on ignore as well but in this case it's warranted. I hope the poster can change and engage in good discussion though.

I am engaging in Discussion. Just because I dont agree with you means I'm not? You dont agree with me, I'm not saying you're not engaging in good discussion. Whats the problem?

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 08:37 PM
How were they supposed to trade for Ben when he wasn't being traded? If there is any merit to your position it is only because of his off-the-field antics, not his on-the-field play. I will maintain that all but maybe 5 or 6 teams in the NFL would prefer to have Ben to whoever they have now.

I think Ben and Troy are about equally important. If you are incapable of seeing what propels Ben to being one of the top 10 QBs in the league then I can't help you and I don't care to.

Since we're not arguing is that it?
Ben was ON THE BLOCK despite what Ed Bouchette said. The Steelers just couldnt get value for him. They werent going to just give him away. If you dont think he was on the block and you believe all the damage control statements then that is on you. I do not. If you are correct then those 5 or 6 teams should have made a legit offer. Why didnt they? I know I know, he wasnt on the block LOL. Troy is the BEST saftey in the game and has been for years. You cant name ONE SS better than Polamalu. I can name SEVERAL Qbs better than Ben. Sorry.

hawaiiansteel
05-29-2010, 08:48 PM
How were they supposed to trade for Ben when he wasn't being traded? If there is any merit to your position it is only because of his off-the-field antics, not his on-the-field play. I will maintain that all but maybe 5 or 6 teams in the NFL would prefer to have Ben to whoever they have now.

I think Ben and Troy are about equally important. If you are incapable of seeing what propels Ben to being one of the top 10 QBs in the league then I can't help you and I don't care to.

Since we're not arguing is that it?
Ben was ON THE BLOCK despite what Ed Bouchette said. The Steelers just couldnt get value for him. They werent going to just give him away. If you dont think he was on the block and you believe all the damage control statements then that is on you. I do not. If you are correct then those 5 or 6 teams should have made a legit offer. Why didnt they? I know I know, he wasnt on the block LOL. Troy is the BEST saftey in the game and has been for years. You cant name ONE SS better than Polamalu. I can name SEVERAL Qbs better than Ben. Sorry.


http://stillernation.com/phpbb/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 08:52 PM
Ben was ON THE BLOCK despite what Ed Bouchette said. The Steelers just couldnt get value for him. They werent going to just give him away. If you dont think he was on the block and you believe all the damage control statements then that is on you. I do not.


Prove it. Link? Source? If you can't then we are at an impasse and it is pointless to discuss it further.


If you are correct then those 5 or 6 teams should have made a legit offer. Why didnt they? I know I know, he wasnt on the block LOL.

LOL is right. He wasn't. And, as you so conspicuously ignored, I've already stated that if there is any merit in your point than it has to do with his off-the-field antics, not on-the-field play.


Troy is the BEST saftey in the game and has been for years. You cant name ONE SS better than Polamalu. I can name SEVERAL Qbs better than Ben. Sorry.

I don't disagree that Troy is the best safety in the game. It's up in the air if there are "SEVERAL" Qbs better than Ben. Doesn't he have the best winning percentage of any quarterback since he's been playing in the NFL or close to it? Who else has 2 SuperBowl wins on their resume since he got to the league? I rate QBs by wins and SBs in particular. Sorry.

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 08:57 PM
-Ben is a top 7 quarterback in this league. You don't post 98+ passer ratings in 4 out of 6 seasons and break almost every single Steelers single season passer rating for being less than that.

[quote] Come on now in fairness to Bradshaw, he played in a running system. If he hadn't Ben wouldnt touch his records. But I agree Ben is a top 7 QB, never said he wasnt good sir

-You mention Ben struggling in the Super Bowls, but he was arguably the MVP in the last one. He deserved it more than Eli or Peyton did respectively in theres. You also fail to mention how great Ben is in the postseason. Even with that horrible passer rating in Super Bowl XL, he still finished all 4 playoff games with over a 100 passer rating collectively.

MVP based on ONE drive? NO sir, Tone deserved that award. The 4 playoff games mean NOTHING if we lose the Super Bowl game. Neil played well leading up to Super Bowl 30 but played badly in the bowl and we lost. So all of his effiiciency stats leading up to the game meant nothing. My point is the STEELERS are great and we win even when Ben is not playing well as we did in SB 40 and SB 43 we were up 17-7 with Ben doing little. Prior to the last drive in SB 43 Ben had like a 140 yards passing, cant remember but it wasnt stellar.

-Ben has an IT factor that only a very few have in this league. He is clutch in big time situations. His ability to move the ball all the way down the field when the team is down in the 4th quarter is ridiculous. You look at Tom Brady as one of the only others.

Never said he didnt sir. I agree with that Ben is a GAMER. My problem is that our team is GREAT and we should NOT be in so many close games. Ben plays well when he feels like it. I dont like that.

-You mentioned Ben hasn't made the playoffs in the seasons he went to the Super Bowl. Really dude? You blame this year on him? Let's look at the loses...Cincinnati twice Ben scores late in the game only to have James Farrior wiff in the flats on 4th down on a 4th string runningback, KC he comes back with a game leading TD late in the game, and in Oakland he comes back with a game leading TD with less than TWO minutes left to Hines Ward only to have the D blow it

So let me get this right. Ben gets all the credit when we WIN but I cant blame him when we lose? How does that work? You want to look at Bens stats vs the Bengals sir? #5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but Ben led him out of bounds with the poor pass. Ben also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's. So yes sir I do blame Ben. All the missed opportunities by the Ben lead offense blew the game and the defenses shortcoming wouldnt have mattered had the execution been better. That defense won us a SB in 08 always remember that.
-Leftwich is not more polished at anything.

Well I disagree. I think Leftwich is a gunslinger. A better pure passer who makes better pre snap reads, Audibles, as well as sees the field better than Ben. All things equal, Leftwich is the better qb, he just doesnt have the intangibles that Ben has (elusivenss, mobility, toughness and size) But he is certainly a smarter qb, processes the information faster etc. How else do you explain them both playing in the SAME games and Leftwich outplaying him? I know I know the coordinator didnt have time to prepare for Byron.

vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating



-You're making fun of Ben's deep ball when he's one of the top QBs in yards/catch?

Ben throws a TERRIBLE long ball due to not working out with his receivers after practice etc. His yards/catch is due highly in part to Tone and Wallac's YAC. But yes his deep ball is bad. If you disagree then thats fine.

-Ben's completion percentage is ridiculous, especially on 3rd down.

Never said Ben wasnt good. I just said he is not Elite. You dont have to sell me on Ben. I have watched EVERY game of the kids career. Our 3rd down pct is not great and neither is our red zone %. 23rd in the league. Who's fault is that? I know I know, its Arians fault.

Any more retarded arguments or are you done?[/quote:3oum44w7]

Retarded. Dont know WHY you guys have to resort to namecalling. This is absurd.

hawaiiansteel
05-29-2010, 09:13 PM
Any more retarded arguments or are you done?



Retarded. Dont know WHY you guys have to resort to namecalling. This is absurd.[/quote]



what's the matter, PEACHES? can dish it out but can't take it nearly as well?

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/shazola/HankLMAO.jpg

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 09:14 PM
[quote=HeHateMe]
Ben was ON THE BLOCK despite what Ed Bouchette said. The Steelers just couldnt get value for him. They werent going to just give him away. If you dont think he was on the block and you believe all the damage control statements then that is on you. I do not.


Prove it. Link? Source? If you can't then we are at an impasse and it is pointless to discuss it further.


Prove it? Sure No problem. Now here is your chance to discredit my sources. I know the game lol
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/04/ro ... p-10-pick/ (http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/04/roethlisberger-being-shopped-for-trade-for-top-10-pick/)

http://arrowheadaddict.com/2010/04/21/s ... -10-teams/ (http://arrowheadaddict.com/2010/04/21/schefter-steelers-shopping-roethlisberger-to-drafts-top-10-teams/)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3821 ... rger-trade (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/382196-report-steelers-have-contacted-raiders-about-roethlisberger-trade)

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/browns/2010 ... lisberger/ (http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/browns/2010/04/report-steelers-offer-browns-roethlisberger/)



If you are correct then those 5 or 6 teams should have made a legit offer. Why didnt they? I know I know, he wasnt on the block LOL.

LOL is right. He wasn't. And, as you so conspicuously ignored, I've already stated that if there is any merit in your point than it has to do with his off-the-field antics, not on-the-field play.
So what makes Ben different from T.O.? T.O certainly performs well on the field. The man has never even been interviewed by the cops and has a rep equal to Bens and he has rape allegations. Who has performed BETTER on the field, T.O or BEN? Do tell sir.


Troy is the BEST saftey in the game and has been for years. You cant name ONE SS better than Polamalu. I can name SEVERAL Qbs better than Ben. Sorry.

I don't disagree that Troy is the best safety in the game. It's up in the air if there are "SEVERAL" Qbs better than Ben. Doesn't he have the best winning percentage of any quarterback since he's been playing in the NFL or close to it? Who else has 2 SuperBowl wins on their resume since he got to the league? I rate QBs by wins and SBs in particular. Sorry.[/quote:1uv181g2]

That winning pct is a TEAM ACCOLADE. Ben is NOT the primary reason for those wins. SEE SB 40 for an example. Brady's is higher and Manning was the winningest qb of the decade. Manning is Better. Brees is Better, Brady is better and so is Phillip Rivers. Faver is better as well. You cant name that many SS in the HISTORY of the NFL better than Polamalu.
You rate Qbs by wins and Sbs? So by your logic Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Joe Theisman etc are all better than Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton etc? COME NOW BRO

HeHateMe
05-29-2010, 09:46 PM
Calm down guys and watch the fight free on me. :Cheers
http://www.atdhe.net/19023/watch-ufc-11 ... e-vs-evans (http://www.atdhe.net/19023/watch-ufc-114-rampage-vs-evans)

stlrz d
05-29-2010, 10:13 PM
Please stop quoting the troll.

Thank you. :)

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 10:28 PM
Please stop quoting the troll.

Thank you. :)

No. I hope that helps. :)

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 10:37 PM
HHM, I'd quote what you said but as I previously mentioned it's just a big cacophony of mungled up words when you reply to me.

-I really didn't need the links. I remember when that was being reported. I also remember when it was reported that all that was just a bunch of crap. Therefore, I choose not to believe he was actually going to be traded while you do. Oh well. Life goes on.

-You still seem to forget that I mentioned that even if there was some merit to your point that it would have been because of the off-the-field stuff, not the on-the-field play.

-T.O. or Ben? Well first, Ben is a quarterback. T.O. is a receiver I believe. Ben plays for the best NFL franchise while T.O. doesn't. Who plays better on the field? I'm going to go with them both being fairly equal in skill at their position, but T.O. will start dropping off more this year (like he did last year) and Ben should keep getting better.

-I don't agree with your assessment of quarterbacks. Yes, I do judge them by wins and losses because that's really the only stat that matters. You can keep the gaudy stats while I keep the SBs. Deal?

stlrz d
05-29-2010, 10:56 PM
Please stop quoting the troll.

Thank you. :)

No. I hope that helps. :)

:moon

And R.I.P. Dennis Hopper. :(

eniparadoxgma
05-29-2010, 11:26 PM
[quote="stlrz d":3a7atww3]Please stop quoting the troll.

Thank you. :)

No. I hope that helps. :)

:moon

And R.I.P. Dennis Hopper. :([/quote:3a7atww3]

Indeed. R.I.P.

Easy Rider, Blue Velvet, and Apocalypse Now are all favorites of mine.

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 12:57 AM
Any more retarded arguments or are you done?



Retarded. Dont know WHY you guys have to resort to namecalling. This is absurd.



what's the matter, PEACHES? can dish it out but can't take it nearly as well?

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/shazola/HankLMAO.jpg[/quote]
Oh I can dish it but when I do you guys go WHINE to the Mods LOL

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 12:58 AM
Any more retarded arguments or are you done?



Retarded. Dont know WHY you guys have to resort to namecalling. This is absurd.



what's the matter, PEACHES? can dish it out but can't take it nearly as well?

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/shazola/HankLMAO.jpg[/quote]
Oh I can dish it but when I do you guys go WHINE to the Mods LOL

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 01:06 AM
HHM, I'd quote what you said but as I previously mentioned it's just a big cacophony of mungled up words when you reply to me.

-I really didn't need the links. I remember when that was being reported. I also remember when it was reported that all that was just a bunch of crap. Therefore, I choose not to believe he was actually going to be traded while you do. Oh well. Life goes on.

-You still seem to forget that I mentioned that even if there was some merit to your point that it would have been because of the off-the-field stuff, not the on-the-field play.

-T.O. or Ben? Well first, Ben is a quarterback. T.O. is a receiver I believe. Ben plays for the best NFL franchise while T.O. doesn't. Who plays better on the field? I'm going to go with them both being fairly equal in skill at their position, but T.O. will start dropping off more this year (like he did last year) and Ben should keep getting better.

-I don't agree with your assessment of quarterbacks. Yes, I do judge them by wins and losses because that's really the only stat that matters. You can keep the gaudy stats while I keep the SBs. Deal?
T.O is a Hall of Famer and in his SEVENTH season he had few peers in the NFL. I'm not going to go into devils advocate mode and defend T.O. but I will say that he is less trouble than Ben. Ben ruined our season in 06 after he disobeyed Cowher. Then he distracted our season in 09 with the Mcnulty crap and now another distraction with the Georgia fiasco. Sorry Ben has done more damage to the Steelers than T.O has ever done to any team. Plus T.O is a bust ass, a workaholic. Ben is not. He is lazy and puts in little time, nor does he like to watch film. Wasnt Ben quoted as saying "Watching alot of film works for Peyton Manning but I watch my share but I would rather see the skeleton defenses in practices. That works for me." Oh how MUCH better this guy could be IF he only got serious. But you settle for a C+ Qb. I will push for him to get a A's.
I never said I was a stat guy, I just said that SB wins dont make you great. Doug Williams is not greater than Dan Marino JUST because he has won a SB. Jim Plunket is not greater than Steve Young JUST because he has two and Young has one. Its misleading. Ben is not Better than Drew Brees or Peyton Manning JUST because he has two and they only have one. Sorry.

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 01:14 AM
The STEELERS are a proven winner. Thats like Deshae Townsend being called a winner because he is on our team or Batch. The STEELERS are a good team with or without Ben as they proved in BOTH of the SBs while Ben was on the team. Ben has ONE TD and THREE INTS in those games (tied with ARE for TD passes). Ben is a big piece to that puzzle but to say that "Ben is a winner" slights the rest of the guys. The STEELERS are WINNERS. Do you think Ben is a winner in Buffalo? I do not.

Sure. Compare Big Ben's importance to the Steelers Win/Loss record with Townsend or Batch. That makes perfect sense.

Yawn. I might be the last person to not have you on ignore so you might want to try harder. Saying Ben is a winner is called a fact. If you don't believe so look at his W/L record. Yes, Townsend and Batch are both winners as well. Are they as important to our success? Don't think so.

Don't know how Ben would do in Buffalo as he's never been there. I can tell you what he's done here. He's been a winner, whether you like it or not. :wink:

obviously no.

its all ben's fault when they miss the playoffs as HeHate,MeStoopid likes to suggest, but its a great team effort when they win

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 01:29 AM
interesting
NFL.com has ben with 15 INTs and 7 fumbles lost in 08

i guess to be elite, one should have 21.... the number kurt 'elite' warner had the same year.... even with fitz going up and grabbing jump balls from him...amazing


BTW, in those 2 SB games where he threw 3 INTs, did any of them wind up a pick 6 that ultimately was the difference in a SB loss? like kurt did 2 times??
Kurt never played for the GREAT Steelers. Kurt is a League MVP. Kurt will be a HALL OF FAMER. Bens success is predicated on the TEAM he is on. Thats why he has ONE Pro Bowl and ONE Team MVP. Kurt turns SORRY teams into contenders, like the rams and Cards. Put Ben on the Bills and SEE if they contend. Ben has too many bad habits to survive on a bad team.


and kurt would have never seen the field if trent green doesn't go down.

ya think marshall faulk isn't a shoe in for the HOF? what about holt? (pretty close IMO)
pace? another sure thing.
where does issac bruce rank among all time wide receivers?

boldin made a pro bowl before warner even got to AZ. they had him and another 1st rd pick at wr in johnson and then used the 3rd overall pick to draft fitz the year before warner got there.


you argue what ben would be with the bills... but you have proof of what warner is without these offensive stars when he played for the NYG but refuse to acknowledge that.


you give ben that type of talent and you'll see similair numbers. hell, you have similiar numbers without coming close to that level of talent at the skill positions

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 01:41 AM
where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 01:53 AM
ben was certainly better then brees in both their 4th, 5th, 6th respective years.

rivers? so good he sat on the bench for 2 years in SD. imagine what some steeler fans would be calling Ben if he did the same.... it took half a season for these same fans to call troy bustamalu.... same for bustonio holmes

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 02:23 AM
where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
We won FOUR Championships before Ben got here bro. Did we win in 05 with Ben playing terrible? What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43? Did you see the game vs the Giants in 08? Ben had like 4 or 5 turnovers. If that happens to any other team it is a blowout. Not to the GREAT Steelers though. We still had a chance to win that game and should have. We outplayed them. Did you see the game vs the Eagles? Again Ben had a bad game and was sacked 8 times and we still had a chance to win that game as well. Oh by the way that same team won the Super Bowl with Ben commiting 22 turnovers and a offense that was 23rd in the NFL. Did you see the Vikings game last season? What did Ben do? We should have lost that game. The defense gutted that game out for us. SELDOM does Ben Roethlisberger put the team on his back and win the game for us. The Green Bay game was a great game by Ben. He played lights out. Of course he can't do that all the time. But he played like that in 08 vs the Texans and in the 05 Playoffs vs the Broncos. When Ben is focused (see second half of Jags game in 07 playoffs) he has few equals. The problem is he is rarely focused for FOUR quarters. His mental lapses hurt the team.That should answer your question sir.

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 02:26 AM
ben was certainly better then brees in both their 4th, 5th, 6th respective years.

rivers? so good he sat on the bench for 2 years in SD. imagine what some steeler fans would be calling Ben if he did the same.... it took half a season for these same fans to call troy bustamalu.... same for bustonio holmes
Uh Ben backed up TAMMY Maddox and Rivers backed up Brees. Do you think Ben beats out Brees? Come now. Ben couldnt beat him out now let alone then. Who but Antonio Gates on the map? Who showed Rivers how to be a professional, make good reads and execute at a high level? It was Drew Brees sir. IF You think Ben is better than Phillp Rivers then that is your opinion. I don't share it.

DanRooney
05-30-2010, 02:28 AM
-Calling someone's argument retarded is not namecalling.

-Ben rushed for a TD in SB XL and made a key block on Randle El's pass to Hines. Oh and remember the pass that bounces off Ward's hand in the endzone? But yeah he didn't do anything.

-Ben has not played behind great offensive receivers other than his rookie year when he had Plax and Ward together. He won the SB with receivers like Ward, Randle El and Cedric Wilson. Not exactly your big-name playmakers.

-Since 2007, he's had some of the worst offensive lineman in the league. You say Ben can't play on other teams, but can QBs other than Brees and Peyton play behind our crappy line? I don't think so.

-You have also got to understand we can't afford to get A+ quarterbacks on our team. Not with the players we have. Ben is a solid B or B+ quarterback and fits in our offense perfectly. You've made no attempt to argue against other people because you can't. You seem to be very stubborn and I don't know why people keep feeding the troll.

hawaiiansteel
05-30-2010, 02:30 AM
Ben has two Super Bowl rings... :tt2 :tt2

please refresh my memory, i seem to have forgotten...how many Super Bowls has Philip Rivers won?

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 04:26 AM
ben was certainly better then brees in both their 4th, 5th, 6th respective years.

rivers? so good he sat on the bench for 2 years in SD. imagine what some steeler fans would be calling Ben if he did the same.... it took half a season for these same fans to call troy bustamalu.... same for bustonio holmes
Uh Ben backed up TAMMY Maddox and Rivers backed up Brees. Do you think Ben beats out Brees? Come now. Ben couldnt beat him out now let alone then. Who but Antonio Gates on the map? Who showed Rivers how to be a professional, make good reads and execute at a high level? It was Drew Brees sir. IF You think Ben is better than Phillp Rivers then that is your opinion. I don't share it.


be a professional?? the dude talks trash to the competition all the time. the guy is a punk. woodley is on record saying rivers was calling him "tubby" and was happy he slammed his head into the ground a few plays later.i'm sure his teammates just love him firing up the defense so they can get smacked around while the league protects his mouth because he's a QB....some professional you got there.


yep, we have the only QB in the league that doesn't make "good reads"
where do you get this garbage from?
how good was peyton's "read" on the pick 6 that iced superbowl 44? you're the typical idiot yinzer that finds every fault in ur team's QB, and then think every other QB out there doesn't make mistakes

shut the f*ck up already with the garbage ur spewing

and yeah, i have zero problem saying brees is better right now...after how many years in the league did he need to get at that level?
and with our OL, brees would be swallowed up alive.. there isn't a QB in the league i would want over Ben with our OL. like some of the games he tends to throw the ball to the opposition and fumble like he's dave kraig. the minny game 2 years ago is a good example... christ, if that was ben on that national game, we wouldn't hear the end of it...good thing for bush's 2 return TDs

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 04:42 AM
where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
We won FOUR Championships before Ben got here bro. Did we win in 05 with Ben playing terrible? What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43? Did you see the game vs the Giants in 08? Ben had like 4 or 5 turnovers. If that happens to any other team it is a blowout. Not to the GREAT Steelers though. We still had a chance to win that game and should have. We outplayed them. Did you see the game vs the Eagles? Again Ben had a bad game and was sacked 8 times and we still had a chance to win that game as well. Oh by the way that same team won the Super Bowl with Ben commiting 22 turnovers and a offense that was 23rd in the NFL. Did you see the Vikings game last season? What did Ben do? We should have lost that game. The defense gutted that game out for us. SELDOM does Ben Roethlisberger put the team on his back and win the game for us. The Green Bay game was a great game by Ben. He played lights out. Of course he can't do that all the time. But he played like that in 08 vs the Texans and in the 05 Playoffs vs the Broncos. When Ben is focused (see second half of Jags game in 07 playoffs) he has few equals. The problem is he is rarely focused for FOUR quarters. His mental lapses hurt the team.That should answer your question sir.

yeah, you keep reading that stat page and i'll watch the games. if you did that, you would have noticed 1 pass go in and out of the hands of nate after being hit for 1 INT. another being a long hail mary at the end of the game...thats 2. AND yet another on a 4th down play where kinwinuka came free off the line (ben's fault right?) if thats manning/rivers/brees they sack him there and get a turnover on downs. Ben tries to scramble away from the rush and throw it for a first down and gets critcized by idiots like you.

better yet, youtube (if still there) some of those sacks. the safety philly got was a 4 man blitz with 7 in protection and 2 guys still got to him pretty cleanly

and jeez, you only had to go back 30 some odd years to find more championships this team has won....thanks for making my point. this great team you claim we had in 'XL was filled with guys who were on the team prior to ben showing up...lots of them being more in their prime...i dont see any championships from those guys before '05?


22 turnovers, yet the "elite" (as you claim) kurt warner had 21 the same season and a pretty costly one in the SB as i remember correctly.. didn't have a great angle on the play where i was in the stadium... was that really a HOFer throwing that ball for a pick 6?

and its awesome that you contradict yourself in the same thread.

1.Ben has always had a good running game
2. the steeler offense ranked 23 in the league in 08

thats gold right there 'bro', gold. you might be in the 5% of posters on the web that think our running game has been good the last few years

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 04:51 AM
where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
We won FOUR Championships before Ben got here bro. Did we win in 05 with Ben playing terrible? What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43? .

you really are an idiot.

he scored the first TD of the game after our Big "hall of fame bound" pittsburgh icon RB couldn't get it in with 2 tries.

you want to give brees/peyton/rivers a try in the same situation? its most likely 4th and goal from the 2

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 03:35 PM
-Calling someone's argument retarded is not namecalling.

-Ben rushed for a TD in SB XL and made a key block on Randle El's pass to Hines. Oh and remember the pass that bounces off Ward's hand in the endzone? But yeah he didn't do anything.

-Ben has not played behind great offensive receivers other than his rookie year when he had Plax and Ward together. He won the SB with receivers like Ward, Randle El and Cedric Wilson. Not exactly your big-name playmakers.

-Since 2007, he's had some of the worst offensive lineman in the league. You say Ben can't play on other teams, but can QBs other than Brees and Peyton play behind our crappy line? I don't think so.

-You have also got to understand we can't afford to get A+ quarterbacks on our team. Not with the players we have. Ben is a solid B or B+ quarterback and fits in our offense perfectly. You've made no attempt to argue against other people because you can't. You seem to be very stubborn and I don't know why people keep feeding the troll.


I dont care about the namecalling I am a man you dont see my crying to Mods lol I just want it to be fair. If you wanna name call we can do that but dont whine when I let you have it. Fair is fair. Not a problem

1. Did BEN really score a TD? I know he was credited for 1 but come on bro THAT WAS NO TD and WE ALL KNOW THAT. But of course we will take it. It was a 1 inch plunge and he didnt get in but if you want to give him credit I digress. LOL

2. SHOW ME where I said "Ben didnt do anything" what I said was "He played like *ss in that game" and that is a statement of fact. He DOES hold the record for qb futility in a Super Bowl, doesnt he?

3.No sir WE won the Super Bowl behind a GREAT Defense NOT behind Ben, Hines and Cedric Wilson. Thats funny. Uh Ben played with Wallace, Tone and Hines. Plax rarely did anything for us. Ben NOR Maddox used him properly and thats why he left and what happened? He became a star with Eli. Tone wasnt even used propery here. Tone was a LEGIT weapon but played 2nd fiddle to Hines. Which In my opinion was a mistake. Tone was WAY BETTER for us than Plax are you kidding? Just ask the Ravens. There is NO coincidence that Ben had his best statistical year last year. It's the year he had the MOST weapons. Tone/Wallace/Hines/Heath/Mendenhall- You do the math.

4. Our offensive line isnt the problem IT IS BEN. How was the Saints line regarded PRIOR to Brees? They were UNKNOWN. Brees makes that line good because he makes great pre snap reads and the correct Hot Routes. He processes the information quickly and gets the ball out fast. These are the things that Ben DOESN'T do. You blame the line? I blame Ben. Let me explain why. In 08 in the Eagles game Ben is sacked 8 times. Enter Leftwich, He drives us down the field and the line IS NOT a problem. What happened? We took out Ben that is what happened. Same thing in the Skins game (08) The blitz and pressure is KILLING Ben, he gets hurt, enter Leftwich and ALL OF A SUDDEN there are no longer any line problems! Why not? Again, in 08 in the Browns game. Ben is picked and harrassed all day by the browns. He is carried off the field enter Leftwich and ALL OF A SUDDEN the line is blocking great! Why is that? Even last year. The Chiefs are killing Ben, he gets hurt and enter Batch. He throws 2 passes and the line is no longer a problem. Vs the Ravens, Dennis Dixon is GREENER than a pool table. He throws the ball 26 times and not ONE sack. Ben plays in the second Ravens game and is sacked four times. You want more proof that it is Ben? Ben played in his only Pro Bowl in 07 behind a ALL PRO Offensive line and their were only TWO sacks in the game. Guess who took them? So you can't blame the line bro, it is OBVIOUSLY Ben and his inability to make the proper pre snap reads, hot routes and the ability to process the information quickly. Do I think Brees could survive behind our line? ABSOLUTELY!!

5. You say that Ben is a Solid B+ Qb? Well WHEN have I said he is not? I have ALWAYS said that Ben is GOOD, he just isnt elite. I would be a fool to say Ben is a bum. Hence, I have never stated that. Nor will I.

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 03:46 PM
Ben has two Super Bowl rings... :tt2 :tt2

please refresh my memory, i seem to have forgotten...how many Super Bowls has Philip Rivers won?
How many has Marino or Tarkenton or Steve Young won? But that makes Ben better? OK

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 03:48 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":58uqnw8m]ben was certainly better then brees in both their 4th, 5th, 6th respective years.

rivers? so good he sat on the bench for 2 years in SD. imagine what some steeler fans would be calling Ben if he did the same.... it took half a season for these same fans to call troy bustamalu.... same for bustonio holmes
Uh Ben backed up TAMMY Maddox and Rivers backed up Brees. Do you think Ben beats out Brees? Come now. Ben couldnt beat him out now let alone then. Who but Antonio Gates on the map? Who showed Rivers how to be a professional, make good reads and execute at a high level? It was Drew Brees sir. IF You think Ben is better than Phillp Rivers then that is your opinion. I don't share it.


be a professional?? the dude talks trash to the competition all the time. the guy is a punk. woodley is on record saying rivers was calling him "tubby" and was happy he slammed his head into the ground a few plays later.i'm sure his teammates just love him firing up the defense so they can get smacked around while the league protects his mouth because he's a QB....some professional you got there.


yep, we have the only QB in the league that doesn't make "good reads"
where do you get this garbage from?
how good was peyton's "read" on the pick 6 that iced superbowl 44? you're the typical idiot yinzer that finds every fault in ur team's QB, and then think every other QB out there doesn't make mistakes

shut the f*ck up already with the garbage ur spewing

and yeah, i have zero problem saying brees is better right now...after how many years in the league did he need to get at that level?
and with our OL, brees would be swallowed up alive.. there isn't a QB in the league i would want over Ben with our OL. like some of the games he tends to throw the ball to the opposition and fumble like he's dave kraig. the minny game 2 years ago is a good example... christ, if that was ben on that national game, we wouldn't hear the end of it...good thing for bush's 2 return TDs[/quote:58uqnw8m]
I wont respond to this post. You are a little too emotional bro. Its a message board RELAX LOL

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 03:51 PM
where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
Did you see the Vikings game last season? What did Ben do? r.

what did farve do in that game? someone you said is better then ben right now?
besides throw a INT for 6 and fumble for another steeler TD?

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 03:51 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":ttjo8t4e]where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
We won FOUR Championships before Ben got here bro. Did we win in 05 with Ben playing terrible? What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43? .

you really are an idiot.

he scored the first TD of the game after our Big "hall of fame bound" pittsburgh icon RB couldn't get it in with 2 tries.

you want to give brees/peyton/rivers a try in the same situation? its most likely 4th and goal from the 2[/quote:ttjo8t4e]
Are you married to Ben? Why are you getting so mad? How come Bens OWN teammates (You know the guys that hang around him?) dont defend him like you guys do? Why is that? How come not ONE Steeler has come forward and said "Ben is not like that. He doesnt have to force himself on women, he has women throwing themselves at him" HOW COME?
Dont you find that a little bit ODD? I find it a little TELLING

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 03:52 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":1m3vhwr5]ben was certainly better then brees in both their 4th, 5th, 6th respective years.

rivers? so good he sat on the bench for 2 years in SD. imagine what some steeler fans would be calling Ben if he did the same.... it took half a season for these same fans to call troy bustamalu.... same for bustonio holmes
Uh Ben backed up TAMMY Maddox and Rivers backed up Brees. Do you think Ben beats out Brees? Come now. Ben couldnt beat him out now let alone then. Who but Antonio Gates on the map? Who showed Rivers how to be a professional, make good reads and execute at a high level? It was Drew Brees sir. IF You think Ben is better than Phillp Rivers then that is your opinion. I don't share it.


be a professional?? the dude talks trash to the competition all the time. the guy is a punk. woodley is on record saying rivers was calling him "tubby" and was happy he slammed his head into the ground a few plays later.i'm sure his teammates just love him firing up the defense so they can get smacked around while the league protects his mouth because he's a QB....some professional you got there.


yep, we have the only QB in the league that doesn't make "good reads"
where do you get this garbage from?
how good was peyton's "read" on the pick 6 that iced superbowl 44? you're the typical idiot yinzer that finds every fault in ur team's QB, and then think every other QB out there doesn't make mistakes

shut the f*ck up already with the garbage ur spewing

and yeah, i have zero problem saying brees is better right now...after how many years in the league did he need to get at that level?
and with our OL, brees would be swallowed up alive.. there isn't a QB in the league i would want over Ben with our OL. like some of the games he tends to throw the ball to the opposition and fumble like he's dave kraig. the minny game 2 years ago is a good example... christ, if that was ben on that national game, we wouldn't hear the end of it...good thing for bush's 2 return TDs
I wont respond to this post. because i have been owned and have nothing left LOL[/quote:1m3vhwr5]

LOL

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 03:55 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":a1no68la]where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
We won FOUR Championships before Ben got here bro. Did we win in 05 with Ben playing terrible? What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43? .

you really are an idiot.

he scored the first TD of the game after our Big "hall of fame bound" pittsburgh icon RB couldn't get it in with 2 tries.

you want to give brees/peyton/rivers a try in the same situation? its most likely 4th and goal from the 2
Are you married to Ben? Why are you getting so mad? How come Bens OWN teammates (You know the guys that hang around him?) dont defend him like you guys do? Why is that? How come not ONE Steeler has come forward and said "Ben is not like that. He doesnt have to force himself on women, he has women throwing themselves at him" HOW COME?
Dont you find that a little bit ODD? I find it a little TELLING[/quote:a1no68la]

well, the one teammate that was with him certainly did come to his defense, and said he stands by him "not only as a teammate, but as a brother"

i'm assuming because the others weren't there, they cant really comment.

but, we'll let you comment on what happened, because you obviously were there

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 04:03 PM
[quote=HeHateMe][quote="NJ-STEELER":3id19tnj]where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
We won FOUR Championships before Ben got here bro. Did we win in 05 with Ben playing terrible? What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43? .

you really are an idiot.

he scored the first TD of the game after our Big "hall of fame bound" pittsburgh icon RB couldn't get it in with 2 tries.

you want to give brees/peyton/rivers a try in the same situation? its most likely 4th and goal from the 2
Are you married to Ben? Why are you getting so mad? How come Bens OWN teammates (You know the guys that hang around him?) dont defend him like you guys do? Why is that? How come not ONE Steeler has come forward and said "Ben is not like that. He doesnt have to force himself on women, he has women throwing themselves at him" HOW COME?
Dont you find that a little bit ODD? I find it a little TELLING[/quote:3id19tnj]

well, the one teammate that was with him certainly did come to his defense, and said he stands by him "not only as a teammate, but as a brother"

i'm assuming because the others weren't there, they cant really comment.

but, we'll let you comment on what happened, because you obviously were there[/quote:3id19tnj]
I think he DISTANCED himself from the situation. He said "I have nothing to offer to the investigation"
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... h_ben.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2010/03/10/2010-03-10_agent_colon_saw_nothing_with_ben.html)

Ben hangs out with Keisel and Heath. How come they haven't come forward and said "Ben is not that kind of guy" or something to that effect. It would do wonders for Bens image.

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 04:05 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":37funkw3]where were all these championships with the "great steelers' before Ben got there.

at a time when bus, hines, haggans/gildon, porter,faneca,hartings, Kimo,marvel, townsend were more in their prime, and had younger standouts like casey, farrior, foote, Fu. El
Did you see the Vikings game last season? What did Ben do? r.

what did farve do in that game? someone you said is better then ben right now?
besides throw a INT for 6 and fumble for another steeler TD?[/quote:37funkw3]
If Favre comes to The Steelers Ben is on the BENCH.

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 04:06 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":yyp0yevy][q

he scored the first TD of the game after our Big "hall of fame bound" pittsburgh icon RB couldn't get it in with 2 tries.

you want to give brees/peyton/rivers a try in the same situation? its most likely 4th and goal from the 2
Are you married to Ben? Why are you getting so mad? How come Bens OWN teammates (You know the guys that hang around him?) dont defend him like you guys do? Why is that? How come not ONE Steeler has come forward and said "Ben is not like that. He doesnt have to force himself on women, he has women throwing themselves at him" HOW COME?
Dont you find that a little bit ODD? I find it a little TELLING

well, the one teammate that was with him certainly did come to his defense, and said he stands by him "not only as a teammate, but as a brother"

i'm assuming because the others weren't there, they cant really comment.

but, we'll let you comment on what happened, because you obviously were there
I think he DISTANCED himself from the situation. He said "I have nothing to offer to the investigation"
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... h_ben.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2010/03/10/2010-03-10_agent_colon_saw_nothing_with_ben.html)

Ben hangs out with Keisel and Heath. How come they haven't come forward and said "Ben is not that kind of guy" or something to that effect. It would do wonders for Bens image.[/quote:yyp0yevy]

i guess you missed the espn interview when OTAs started when they asked willie about Ben.

i'm not suprised you ignored it/missed it.......its positive news.

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 04:10 PM
[quote=HeHateMe][quote="NJ-STEELER":6ydz5cr8][q

he scored the first TD of the game after our Big "hall of fame bound" pittsburgh icon RB couldn't get it in with 2 tries.

you want to give brees/peyton/rivers a try in the same situation? its most likely 4th and goal from the 2
Are you married to Ben? Why are you getting so mad? How come Bens OWN teammates (You know the guys that hang around him?) dont defend him like you guys do? Why is that? How come not ONE Steeler has come forward and said "Ben is not like that. He doesnt have to force himself on women, he has women throwing themselves at him" HOW COME?
Dont you find that a little bit ODD? I find it a little TELLING

well, the one teammate that was with him certainly did come to his defense, and said he stands by him "not only as a teammate, but as a brother"

i'm assuming because the others weren't there, they cant really comment.

but, we'll let you comment on what happened, because you obviously were there
I think he DISTANCED himself from the situation. He said "I have nothing to offer to the investigation"
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... h_ben.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2010/03/10/2010-03-10_agent_colon_saw_nothing_with_ben.html)

Ben hangs out with Keisel and Heath. How come they haven't come forward and said "Ben is not that kind of guy" or something to that effect. It would do wonders for Bens image.[/quote:6ydz5cr8]

i guess you missed the espn interview when OTAs started when they asked willie about Ben.

i'm not suprised you ignored it/missed it.......its positive news.[/quote:6ydz5cr8]
Question: What is he supposed to say? I am talking about speaking out for Ben in relation to Ben and women. This is what needs to be said to help Ben. Even Michael Jackson had people speaking up for him in regard to kids (Note: I believe him to be guilty for the record) but how come Ben doesnt have anyone stepping up for him in this regard? Thats all I'm asking.

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 04:11 PM
NJ- Don't give me that crap about "positive news". I have always said Ben is a good Qb. Isnt that positive?

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 04:19 PM
Ben is tough, Ben has great intangibles, Ben is a gutsy grimey competitor. Ben is one of the most elusive QBs in the game. When Ben feels like playing there are only 2 Qbs better than him (Brees/Manning). When Ben feels like playing I dont even think Brady is better than him because of his size, strength and stronger arm. I have THREE Ben jerseys, white, black and the UGLY throwback one. I have watched EVERY game of Bens career. Some of my favorites? Rookie year vs the Cowboys (awesome). Playoff game vs the Broncos (Awesome), Gutsy performance vs the Jags after the apendectomy, 2nd half vs the Jags when he finally decided he wanted to play. Packer game of last seaon (awesome) he SINGLEHANDEDLY willed us to win that game- I watch that game often!!!!, 1st game of the year vs the Texans (08) and SB43 that last drive was EPIC.

I have no problem giving him props

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 04:24 PM
i guess you missed the espn interview when OTAs started when they asked willie about Ben.

i'm not suprised you ignored it/missed it.......its positive news.
Question: What is he supposed to say? I am talking about speaking out for Ben in relation to Ben and women. This is what needs to be said to help Ben. Even Michael Jackson had people speaking up for him in regard to kids (Note: I believe him to be guilty for the record) but how come Ben doesnt have anyone stepping up for him in this regard? Thats all I'm asking.



what do you want them to come out and say?

"ben doesn't force himself on women, but he likes to bang them where ever he could"


how do you see that as a positive spin on the situation? yeah, it might lean more towards no sexual assault, but the law already did that.
even without charges being brought up, he is guilty of bad judgement by having sex in a public bathroom... what kind of positive light can be put on that?

why do teammates that weren't there or may not hang out with ben have to come out and speak about his personnal life. ben himself has said there was nothing 'forceful" about the situation. the police and DA findings backed up his words.

why do you need heath miller to come out and say 'ben doesn't force himself on girls" to have another opinion on the GA accusation and think Ben was indeed innocent??

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 04:33 PM
Sorry if I partied with Ben and I KNEW how he "rolled" I would come forward and say "Listen, I have partied with him several times and Ben has women all over him. Ben is not the guy being depicted in these stories" Then I would provide examples. I am sure Ben would appreciate it. But if I didnt feel that way or had some inside info, I wouldnt rat him out I would remain silent. If one of your friends were in hot water you would remain silent? Sorry, I would not.

I think something like this happened to Leftwich as well. Not sure, I will have to research.

NJ-STEELER
05-30-2010, 04:42 PM
every NFL QB has girls all over them when out.


why would a comment by a player that wasnt there have any signifcance to you. be it a positive or negative staement

HeHateMe
05-30-2010, 09:04 PM
every NFL QB has girls all over them when out.


why would a comment by a player that wasnt there have any signifcance to you. be it a positive or negative staement
It doesnt have any significance to me. I could care less. I just said it was ODD that not ONE of his friends came to his defense. Whereas Michael Jackson had tons of people coming to his defense. Heck, even Ray Lewis had people coming to his defense in terms of his character when he got the Murder charge. Ben did not. I just find that odd or better yet Telling. Thats all. Notice ex players haven't come to Lawrence Taylors defense either? Again, Telling.

I couldn't find that stuff on Leftwich. I must have confused him with someone else.

NJ-STEELER
05-31-2010, 12:07 AM
he still was looking to bang a girl in a restroom of a club. being a public figurte, that really doesn't look good on someone's resume...despite it not being a crime

what would you like to hear from his teammates? something like this?

"yeah, me and ben go out together all the time when we're on the road and i know he doesn't force himself on women, we do try and bang lots of chicks... its easy getting laid when your out with a superstar"



where were the commets of other players/friends coming to the defense of harrison afetr he allegedly smacked up his baby's momma?
what about after the thrown glass incident with santonio? do you have any teammates statements about how it isn't like him to do that sort of thing?

Captain Lemming
05-31-2010, 01:15 AM
The decision by Del Rio to start Garrard over Leftwich will cost him his job. HOW Did Leftwich fail in Jacksonville? He was the franchise qb. The coach just didnt like him. A move the WHOLE team hated. Do you think Garrard is better than Leftwich?

The year after Leftwich was traded David Gerrard:

Bettered Leftwich's Jacksonville career high for TDs
Bettered Leftwich's Jacksonville career high for Percentage
Bettered Leftwich'sJ acksonville career high for low int percentage (only 3 picks)
Bettered Leftwich's Jacksonville career high for YPA
Crushed Leftwichs modest Jacksonville career high QB rating of 89 with a rating of 102.
Had more wins that Leftwich has ever had
Went further in the playoffs than Leftwich ever did as a starter

BY EVERY SINGLE MEANINGFUL MEASURE Gerrard took all of ONE SEASON to justify Del Rios decision.

If you prefer a QB who is inferior in all the above ways it is no wonder you hate Ben. :lol:


Ben is a two time winning Qb because he is on the Steelers. Thats like Ike Taylor bragging to Champ Bailey that he is a two time winning corner so "I'm better".

Actually your analogy fall flat because Champ is better than Ike STATISTICALLY.
Ben is better not only in record but he is also MUCH BETTER STATISTICALLY than Leftwich.

As a ROOKIE Ben:

Bettered Leftwich's starter career high for TDs
Bettered Leftwich's starter career high for Percentage
Bettered Leftwich's starter career high for YPA
Crushed Leftwichs modest startere career high QB rating of 89 with a rating of 98.

All the above are INDIVIDUAL numbers. Nothing to do with "team".

In addition rookie Ben:
Had more wins that Leftwich has ever had
Went further in the playoffs than Leftwich ever did as a starter


Leftwich is more polished than Ben and he works at his trade. Ben is lazy,

Frankly, I dont argue with some of this. I believe Ben doesnt read defenses as quickly as a veteran should by now. Nevertheless, Ben is so much better than Leftwich that he is STATISTICALLY superior without even working at it.


The defense gives him EXTRA chances until he FINALLY gets it right. Ben is the ONLY qb in history to have to comeback with a DOMINANT defense. Bradshaw wasnt known as a comeback qb. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because he took advantage of his dominant D and scored points to put us ahead, way ahead.

Actually, Mike Kruczek won 6 straight game with Terrys team, NEVER ONCE having to mount a comeback and without throwing a single TD pass.
So how much credit does Terry deserve for his "explosive" offense not falling behind?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/b ... 00&yr=1976 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=KrucMi00&yr=1976)


Ben has 1 TD AND 3 INTS IN SUPER BOWLS. HELLOOOOOOOOOOO. The STEELERS make him look good. Not the other way around.

Ben had a bad SB AS A SECOND YEAR PLAYER. Please share all the "great" SB performances of second year QBs? Second year QBs dont wait to the SB to choke.

You continue to ignore that HE GOT TO TWO SBs ALREADY.

And do not try to act like the defense or run game carried him there. Heck agaist the Colts not only did he have to duel with Manning, Bettis (run game) almost blew it. Ben had to make a tackle that was more important than ANY made by the defense. But they carry HIM? Ridiculous. :roll:

The best playoff QB in the AFC is in the SB and you want to tell us he gets no credit?:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/yea ... asontype/3 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/year/2005/seasontype/3)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/yea ... asontype/3 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/year/2008/seasontype/3)

It is the Steelers who carry Ben?

Its funny how for YEARS under Cowher we have a top defense and run game, but the only time we make noise in the playoffs we have the best conference playoff QB performance?

Captain Lemming
05-31-2010, 01:44 AM
interesting
NFL.com has ben with 15 INTs and 7 fumbles lost in 08

i guess to be elite, one should have 21.... the number kurt 'elite' warner had the same year.... even with fitz going up and grabbing jump balls from him...amazing


BTW, in those 2 SB games where he threw 3 INTs, did any of them wind up a pick 6 that ultimately was the difference in a SB loss? like kurt did 2 times??
Kurt never played for the GREAT Steelers. Kurt is a League MVP. Kurt will be a HALL OF FAMER. Bens success is predicated on the TEAM he is on. Thats why he has ONE Pro Bowl and ONE Team MVP. Kurt turns SORRY teams into contenders, like the rams and Cards. Put Ben on the Bills and SEE if they contend. Ben has too many bad habits to survive on a bad team.

You do this ALL THE TIME. You cannot argue the point so you come back with the "Ben played for the Steelers" line whether it is even relevant or not.
How exactly does "playing for the great Steelers" prevent Ben from throwing pick sixes in SBs?

hawaiiansteel
05-31-2010, 01:51 AM
we're not actually arguing whether Ben is better than Lefty or not here, are we?

Preacher
05-31-2010, 02:12 AM
we're not actually arguing whether Ben is better than Lefty or not here, are we?

Why yes... Yes it does look like that is what is being argued!

:HeadBanger

Can you believe it?

Captain Lemming
05-31-2010, 02:24 AM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss

Don't worry, Byron is getting it in "Valet Mode" so he won't be able to do any damage. :wink:
He is setting the table for the "EXCUSE". Just like when Tomlin won. He didnt get any credit. "Tomlin won with Cowhers team". So IF Byron is successful the statement will be "He did it with Bens team". Funny Byron wont have NEAR the weapons that Ben had last seaon (9-7)

Now look who is making excuses "already". :lol:

eniparadoxgma
05-31-2010, 04:36 AM
T.O is a Hall of Famer and in his SEVENTH season he had few peers in the NFL. I'm not going to go into devils advocate mode and defend T.O. but I will say that he is less trouble than Ben. Ben ruined our season in 06 after he disobeyed Cowher. Then he distracted our season in 09 with the Mcnulty crap and now another distraction with the Georgia fiasco. Sorry Ben has done more damage to the Steelers than T.O has ever done to any team.

If you're talking about off the field then I really don't give a rat's ass. Why do you care so much about this perceived distraction? I don't think the LV thing distracted him and we have no evidence in regard to whether the GA thing will or not.


Plus T.O is a bust bad word, a workaholic. Ben is not. He is lazy and puts in little time, nor does he like to watch film. Wasnt Ben quoted as saying "Watching alot of film works for Peyton Manning but I watch my share but I would rather see the skeleton defenses in practices. That works for me." Oh how MUCH better this guy could be IF he only got serious. But you settle for a C+ Qb. I will push for him to get a A's.

I'm all for him getting better and I've never said he had no room to improve. Therefore I don't know why you're beating up that straw man.



I never said I was a stat guy, I just said that SB wins dont make you great. Doug Williams is not greater than Dan Marino JUST because he has won a SB. Jim Plunket is not greater than Steve Young JUST because he has two and Young has one. Its misleading. Ben is not Better than Drew Brees or Peyton Manning JUST because he has two and they only have one. Sorry.

I never said Ben was better than Drew Brees or Peyton Manning. I'm saying that all but 5 or 6 teams would be better off with him than without him.

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 06:28 AM
he still was looking to bang a girl in a restroom of a club. being a public figurte, that really doesn't look good on someone's resume...despite it not being a crime

what would you like to hear from his teammates? something like this?

"yeah, me and ben go out together all the time when we're on the road and i know he doesn't force himself on women, we do try and bang lots of chicks... its easy getting laid when your out with a superstar"



where were the commets of other players/friends coming to the defense of harrison afetr he allegedly smacked up his baby's momma?
what about after the thrown glass incident with santonio? do you have any teammates statements about how it isn't like him to do that sort of thing?
Harrison admitted his wrongdoing and SEVERAL of his teammates have testified that he has a temper. What ever came of Santonio and the glass throwing incident? Are you really comparing that bro? WOW
NO teammate stood up for Tone either. It is telling and THANKS for making my point

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 06:54 AM
[quote]The decision by Del Rio to start Garrard over Leftwich will cost him his job. HOW Did Leftwich fail in Jacksonville? He was the franchise qb. The coach just didnt like him. A move the WHOLE team hated. Do you think Garrard is better than Leftwich?

The year after Leftwich was traded David Gerrard:

Bettered Leftwich's Jacksonville career high for TDs
Bettered Leftwich's Jacksonville career high for Percentage
Bettered Leftwich'sJ acksonville career high for low int percentage (only 3 picks)
Bettered Leftwich's Jacksonville career high for YPA
Crushed Leftwichs modest Jacksonville career high QB rating of 89 with a rating of 102.
Had more wins that Leftwich has ever had
Went further in the playoffs than Leftwich ever did as a starter

BY EVERY SINGLE MEANINGFUL MEASURE Gerrard took all of ONE SEASON to justify Del Rios decision.

If you prefer a QB who is inferior in all the above ways it is no wonder you hate Ben. :lol:


Ben is a two time winning Qb because he is on the Steelers. Thats like Ike Taylor bragging to Champ Bailey that he is a two time winning corner so "I'm better".

Actually your analogy fall flat because Champ is better than Ike STATISTICALLY.
Ben is better not only in record but he is also MUCH BETTER STATISTICALLY than Leftwich.

As a ROOKIE Ben:

Bettered Leftwich's starter career high for TDs
Bettered Leftwich's starter career high for Percentage
Bettered Leftwich's starter career high for YPA
Crushed Leftwichs modest startere career high QB rating of 89 with a rating of 98.

All the above are INDIVIDUAL numbers. Nothing to do with "team".

In addition rookie Ben:
Had more wins that Leftwich has ever had
Went further in the playoffs than Leftwich ever did as a starter


Leftwich is more polished than Ben and he works at his trade. Ben is lazy,

Frankly, I dont argue with some of this. I believe Ben doesnt read defenses as quickly as a veteran should by now. Nevertheless, Ben is so much better than Leftwich that he is STATISTICALLY superior without even working at it.


The defense gives him EXTRA chances until he FINALLY gets it right. Ben is the ONLY qb in history to have to comeback with a DOMINANT defense. Bradshaw wasnt known as a comeback qb. DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because he took advantage of his dominant D and scored points to put us ahead, way ahead.

Actually, Mike Kruczek won 6 straight game with Terrys team, NEVER ONCE having to mount a comeback and without throwing a single TD pass.
So how much credit does Terry deserve for his "explosive" offense not falling behind?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/b ... 00&yr=1976 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/game_query.cgi?qb=KrucMi00&yr=1976)


Ben has 1 TD AND 3 INTS IN SUPER BOWLS. HELLOOOOOOOOOOO. The STEELERS make him look good. Not the other way around.

Ben had a bad SB AS A SECOND YEAR PLAYER. Please share all the "great" SB performances of second year QBs? Second year QBs dont wait to the SB to choke.

You continue to ignore that HE GOT TO TWO SBs ALREADY.

And do not try to act like the defense or run game carried him there. Heck agaist the Colts not only did he have to duel with Manning, Bettis (run game) almost blew it. Ben had to make a tackle that was more important than ANY made by the defense. But they carry HIM? Ridiculous. :roll:

The best playoff QB in the AFC is in the SB and you want to tell us he gets no credit?:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/yea ... asontype/3 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/year/2005/seasontype/3)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/yea ... asontype/3 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/_/year/2008/seasontype/3)

It is the Steelers who carry Ben?

Its funny how for YEARS under Cowher we have a top defense and run game, but the only time we make noise in the playoffs we have the best conference playoff QB performance?[/quote:xa18ifxh]

1. If you think Garrard is better than Leftwich that is your opinion lol. WHY is garrard on the hotseat in Jacksonville? Stats are misleading. Ben has a better playoff record than Peyton Manning BUT WHO IS BETTER? See how that works?

2. Sorry to disappoint you but I dont hate Ben. I HATE what he did to my team but Hate him? Come now. Sorry to disappoint you.
3. Are you SOOO defensive that you cant read what I post? WHEN did I say Leftwich was better than Ben? I do believe I listed WHAT he does better than Ben and I listed WHAT Ben does better than him. I never ONCE said "Leftwich is better than Ben overall" YOU BEN LOVERS sure get uptight when someone critiques Ben. AMAZING. LOL

4. Why would you waste the time to list Ben vs Byron? Ben played on the superior team. I have said that time and time again. If Manning was on the Steelers and Ben was on the Colts WHO would have more wins? Come on bro. What I did compare is their games in 08 while on the SAME team and there is NO QUESTION that Leftwich outplayed Ben. COMPARE THOSE STATS SHALL WE?


vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating

Small sample size yes but ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL. Wheras comparing two different teams, they are not. Again, NOT saying Leftwich is better than Ben just saying he is better at SOME things and I have pointed those things out.

Your Kruczek stat MAKES my point. Thank you. He never had to come from behind WITH a dominant defense NOR should you have to. Ben does because he is not focused until he has to focus. He cheats the team. As far as him not throwing a TD. Come on bro, that is a misleading stat. WE all know that the Steelers were a running team so that is no surprise.

Notice that there is ALWAYS an excuse with Ben? In Vegas, In Georgia, in 06, In 09, in 04 it is really hillarious. So Ben played bad in the SB 40 because he was in his 2nd year? So the GREAT rookie season prior to that year was all luck huh? He didnt play well in SB 43 either UNTIL the last drive. Whats your excuse now? Subtract those 90 yards on the last drive and what do we have? We have A unproductive Qb and THAT is why he didnt win the MVP. I guess he was NERVOUS until the last drive despite being in his 5th season. LOL

I don't ignore that he got to 2 SBs. He was on a great team. So shall I give Neil O'donnell props for getting to the SB (come back with the predictable; "The difference between Neil and Ben is that Neil lost". Had we played a better team than the Seahawks we would have lost that year too). How many qbs in the league CAN'T make that tackle Ben made in the colt game? Ben is NOT fast. You act like Ben ran him down. All Ben did was make a tackle on a guy he was in front of. Now had the DB been in front of him and Ben ran him down like Mendenhall did last season in KC (after a Ben redzone Pick by the way) then I would give him credit.
Since you are a such a researcher. RESEARCH how many extra chances our defense gives Ben. I GUARANTEE they give Ben WAY more chances than the opposition. 3 and outs, turnovers, give Ben chance after chance to get it right.
Why is this GREAT team in so many NAIL BITERS? I'll tell you why. POOR EXECUTION ( I know I know. Its Arians fault LOL) Who is in charge of that execution?
Ben should get the credit when we win BUT NO BLAME when we lose. I get it. LOL

Bill Cowher is a KNOWN Choker. We have lost in the past due to his CONSERVATIVE approach NOT the qb. He is just like his mentor, Marty Schottenheimer and they have SIMILAR careers and results.
Ben has his best season and the defense is down so what happens? 9-7. THAT IS PROOF that the success is not on Ben.

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 06:57 AM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":35cs48hc]interesting
NFL.com has ben with 15 INTs and 7 fumbles lost in 08

i guess to be elite, one should have 21.... the number kurt 'elite' warner had the same year.... even with fitz going up and grabbing jump balls from him...amazing


BTW, in those 2 SB games where he threw 3 INTs, did any of them wind up a pick 6 that ultimately was the difference in a SB loss? like kurt did 2 times??
Kurt never played for the GREAT Steelers. Kurt is a League MVP. Kurt will be a HALL OF FAMER. Bens success is predicated on the TEAM he is on. Thats why he has ONE Pro Bowl and ONE Team MVP. Kurt turns SORRY teams into contenders, like the rams and Cards. Put Ben on the Bills and SEE if they contend. Ben has too many bad habits to survive on a bad team.

You do this ALL THE TIME. You cannot argue the point so you come back with the "Ben played for the Steelers" line whether it is even relevant or not.
How exactly does "playing for the great Steelers" prevent Ben from throwing pick sixes in SBs?[/quote:35cs48hc]
Sorry, it is a fact. IF ben is on the Bills will all of his FLAWS AS A QB, he will be Jake Plumer. Ben THOUGHT he threw a pick to win SB43. So is an admission that the pass to Tone was LUCKY. I didnt say it, Ben did.
Let me get this right now. Are you saying that we wouldnt win more with Peyton Manning the last 6 years? Is that your position?

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 06:58 AM
we're not actually arguing whether Ben is better than Lefty or not here, are we?
I'm not but when you have to grasp at straws you pull anything out you can.

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 06:59 AM
we're not actually arguing whether Ben is better than Lefty or not here, are we?

Why yes... Yes it does look like that is what is being argued!

:HeadBanger

Can you believe it?
Actually you are quite wrong sir

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 07:01 AM
Dear Byron Leftwhich,
You are borrowing Ben's mercedes. Do not change the seat or stereo settings. Follow all the directions on the GPS and do not take it off road. Do not eat in the car or have passengers. The rightful owner will be back in 4 weeks to drive us to the super bowl.

Love Always,

Siss

Don't worry, Byron is getting it in "Valet Mode" so he won't be able to do any damage. :wink:
He is setting the table for the "EXCUSE". Just like when Tomlin won. He didnt get any credit. "Tomlin won with Cowhers team". So IF Byron is successful the statement will be "He did it with Bens team". Funny Byron wont have NEAR the weapons that Ben had last seaon (9-7)

Now look who is making excuses "already". :lol:
Let me ask you a question. WILL Leftwich have the same weapons? Yes or No?
You are telling me that NOT Having Tone wont affect the offense?
LOL

feltdizz
06-01-2010, 12:56 PM
Your Kruczek stat MAKES my point. Thank you. He never had to come from behind WITH a dominant defense NOR should you have to. Ben does because he is not focused until he has to focus. He cheats the team. As far as him not throwing a TD. Come on bro, that is a misleading stat. WE all know that the Steelers were a running team so that is no surprise.

This^^^^


People may hate your approach but this right here is money. How many times have we watched the first 15 SCRIPTED plays march us down the field for a TD then for 2 quarters we look like trash?

Brady, Brees and Manning's teams blow out a ton of teams... then we play the same team and the D puts up amazing stats (besides last years 4th quarters) forces 3 and outs and fumbles.. etc. and we still struggle to win?

Ben definitely makes it harder then it has to be.. great for ratings and suspense but bad for the heart and occasionally we lose bad teams.

NJ-STEELER
06-01-2010, 01:35 PM
he still was looking to bang a girl in a restroom of a club. being a public figurte, that really doesn't look good on someone's resume...despite it not being a crime

what would you like to hear from his teammates? something like this?

"yeah, me and ben go out together all the time when we're on the road and i know he doesn't force himself on women, we do try and bang lots of chicks... its easy getting laid when your out with a superstar"



where were the commets of other players/friends coming to the defense of harrison afetr he allegedly smacked up his baby's momma?
what about after the thrown glass incident with santonio? do you have any teammates statements about how it isn't like him to do that sort of thing?
Harrison admitted his wrongdoing and SEVERAL of his teammates have testified that he has a temper. What ever came of Santonio and the glass throwing incident? Are you really comparing that bro? WOW
NO teammate stood up for Tone either. It is telling and THANKS for making my point

ben has admitted his wrong doing and not appealed the suspension. and is taking his "punishment"

funny, you ask why haven't any teammates come and backed Ben and say he isn't that type of guy.

i answer by bringing up no teammates have said anything about holmes or Debo incidents.... basically all of them mind their personnal business

you come back and change the question and ask why i'm comparing the two when you realize you were proven wrong.


just like you state " FACT" about how Ben would fair with the bills...that is not a Fact, its an opinion, conjecture

a fact would be kurt warner playing for the giants and looking horrible in that stint. or do you think its just an opinion because you never watched any of the games he played there

cruzer8
06-01-2010, 01:47 PM
I think someone needs to look at play-by-plays for the games instead of relying on their memory. I am confident it will debunk the idea that we march right down the field on the first 15 scripted plays with any consistency.

By the way, if everyone stops arguing with the troll then we ALL win.

Not a sermon, just a thought. ;)

ikestops85
06-01-2010, 03:56 PM
http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10563/hhKlinkViolingiveitarest.jpg

steeldawg
06-01-2010, 06:50 PM
This is a response to a Lefty ballwasher that someone posted on another forum. I thought it summed things up quite nicely.


The Leftwich ballwashing is getting pretty tiring, even for someone like me that mostly just lurks and reads posts.

For starters, he was 4-1 ( 0-0 technically because he didn't start any of the games), one of the 5 games he threw a pass in was in the loss to the Eagles.

And it's an anomaly because only twice in those games was he in the game during a meaningful amount of time, and one of the times was in a meaningless week 17 game with the division and a first round bye already locked up.

Vs Houston - Leftwich takes his first snap when the game is already 35-3 in the first quarter.
1st possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Houston responds with a TD

2nd possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Harrison and Woodley force and recover a Schaub fumble and Pit gets the ball back on the Houston 28

3rd possession? Lefty throws 2 more incomplete passes, but Pit's already in FG range. FG is made, Houston scores another TD but it's too late, and Lefty kneels.

Leftwich contribution? 4 incomplete passes, all 4 net yards with Lefty undercenter come from 5 handoffs to Mendenhall.

vs Eagles - There's two minutes left and the Eagles are up 9, but Leftwich manages to look pretty competent here. He goes 4 for 7 to move the ball 60 yards against a prevent D, but the possession ends when Lefty takes a 9 yard loss on a sack on 3rd and 1, then throws incomplete on 4th down.

vs Bengals - Leftwich saves the day with a touchdown pass in the final minutes. Except the Steelers were already up 31-10 with under 5 minutes to go in the 4th, Leftwich started out on the Bengals' 34 yard line, and the first player with a hand on the pass was John Joseph who tipped the ball into Ward's hands.

vs Redskins - Lefty's best game as a Steeler. He comes in after halftime when the Steelers are leading 10-6 (due to a Roethlisberger rushing TD mind you) and posts up 129 Yards, contributing to 2 scoring drives including a Leftwich TD pass. During this half, the Steelers D continues to make the skins look incompetent, intercepting Campbell twice and stopping two 4th down attempts in Pit territory, once on the goal line.

vs Browns - A nice Leftwich showing. He comes in mid-drive when Ben gets hurt and he gets to start out in Cleveland territory. He contributes to 3 scoring drives (2 of them when he started out in Cleveland territory) including a rushing TD, to push a 7-0 lead to a 24-0 lead, when the Steelers D completes their rout of the Browns offense with an int return TD.

Leftwich played well, but only in the Redskins game and maybe the Browns game did he have any real impact at all (in two games where the defense had been dominating regardless), and accomplished nothing notable against a prevent D, the only time he came in when the Steelers weren't already leading.


This an ERRONEOUS POST. Lets see for example in the Eagles game Jim Johnson is QUOTED as saying "I had to call off the blitz because leftwich was burning us". There was NO prevent defense. Thats an out and out LIE. In fact he was sacked ONCE that game. Fact is he burned the blitz and lead us down the field. Something BEN COULD NOT DO. Secondly, he hit Nate Washington in the HANDS in the endzone and Nate DROPPED the pass. WHY didnt the poster mention that? CAN YOU SAY BIAS? But you knew that when he said "against a prevent defense". Jim Johnson blitzes the crap out of the starter but is going to sit back in a prevent vs the backup? Jim Johnson doesnt believe in a PREVENT ESPECIALLY IN A ONE POSSESSION GAME lol

Vs Redskins- We are LEADING due to a BLOCKED punt NOT Ben. Yes Ben scored on a ONE YARD dive. That drive was manufactured by the blocked punt, NOT BY BEN. The Skins D were giving Ben FITS, he was taking sacks and playing badly. Enter Leftwich. On his 1st pass he hits a streaking Nate Washington. He underthrew him but nothing like the fair catch punts that Ben underthrows. How about the audible inside the 10? Leftwich noticed that the corner was playing off of Tone so he audibles and hits Tone for a quick strike and TD. Try to DIMINISH what Leftwich did all you want but the facts are that he OUTPLAYED BEN in both the Skins and the Browns game. Worth noting- Ben threw a HORRIBLE pick in the redzone before he was carted out of the Browns game. Leftwich contributed to TWENTY FOUR points in 3 qtrs.


vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns Leftwich 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Big Ben 9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating

bottomline lefwhich could not win the starting job in tampa bay last season. Big Ben 2 superbowl rings , byron leftwich 0.

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 08:52 PM
Your Kruczek stat MAKES my point. Thank you. He never had to come from behind WITH a dominant defense NOR should you have to. Ben does because he is not focused until he has to focus. He cheats the team. As far as him not throwing a TD. Come on bro, that is a misleading stat. WE all know that the Steelers were a running team so that is no surprise.

This^^^^


People may hate your approach but this right here is money. How many times have we watched the first 15 SCRIPTED plays march us down the field for a TD then for 2 quarters we look like trash?

Brady, Brees and Manning's teams blow out a ton of teams... then we play the same team and the D puts up amazing stats (besides last years 4th quarters) forces 3 and outs and fumbles.. etc. and we still struggle to win?

Ben definitely makes it harder then it has to be.. great for ratings and suspense but bad for the heart and occasionally we lose bad teams.

And THAT IS my biggest gripe with the guy (On Field). Ben could be SCARY good IF he put in the time and effort. This team should be a DYNASTY in my opinion but the leader is a slacker and it shows in games. No WAY we should lose 5 games in a row to those terrible teams. Can you blame the defense? Sure (In the 4th) but what about when that same defense held the opposition in check for three quarters. That is the time that the offense should score some points to create seperation. There is NO coincidence that Ben turns into Super Qb in the 4th quarter. BEN IS GOOD. He has the abliity to be GREAT but it is ALL IN HIS HEAD. Did you see the way he played in that last drive in SB 43? That is no accident. THAT IS WHO BEN IS. I dont expect him to play like that 100% of the time but is it too much to ask for him to play like that 75% of the time? I don't think it is. IF Ben plays like that 75% of the time NO TEAM will beat us and we will win MOST of our games by blowout.

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 08:58 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":23ow9v3z]he still was looking to bang a girl in a restroom of a club. being a public figurte, that really doesn't look good on someone's resume...despite it not being a crime

what would you like to hear from his teammates? something like this?

"yeah, me and ben go out together all the time when we're on the road and i know he doesn't force himself on women, we do try and bang lots of chicks... its easy getting laid when your out with a superstar"



where were the commets of other players/friends coming to the defense of harrison afetr he allegedly smacked up his baby's momma?
what about after the thrown glass incident with santonio? do you have any teammates statements about how it isn't like him to do that sort of thing?
Harrison admitted his wrongdoing and SEVERAL of his teammates have testified that he has a temper. What ever came of Santonio and the glass throwing incident? Are you really comparing that bro? WOW
NO teammate stood up for Tone either. It is telling and THANKS for making my point

ben has admitted his wrong doing and not appealed the suspension. and is taking his "punishment"

funny, you ask why haven't any teammates come and backed Ben and say he isn't that type of guy.

i answer by bringing up no teammates have said anything about holmes or Debo incidents.... basically all of them mind their personnal business

you come back and change the question and ask why i'm comparing the two when you realize you were proven wrong.


just like you state " FACT" about how Ben would fair with the bills...that is not a Fact, its an opinion, conjecture

a fact would be kurt warner playing for the giants and looking horrible in that stint. or do you think its just an opinion because you never watched any of the games he played there[/quote:23ow9v3z]
How am I proven wrong? You make my point. Harrison WAS WRONG AND GUILTY so the "mates" didnt speak out in his behalf. Its the SAME with Ben. You don't think IF Ben was charged with a crime he DIDN'T commit that his teammates wouldnt speak out in his behalf? Are you that naive? Did Hines mind his own business when he criticized Ben last season? Did Tone when He did the same? Come on bro.
It is a FACT that Ben has been statistically AVERAGE on a GREAT team like the Steelers. So what do you think those stats will be on a BELOW AVERAGE team? How did Steve Young look on the Buccaneers? How did he look on the 9ers? It is COMMON sense bro but you keep BELIEVING that Ben would great on the Bills. Ben gets sacked FIFTY times on the GREAT Steelers but that would Improve on the HORRIBLE Bills? Ok. As long as YOU believe that. I don't.

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 09:00 PM
I think someone needs to look at play-by-plays for the games instead of relying on their memory. I am confident it will debunk the idea that we march right down the field on the first 15 scripted plays with any consistency.

By the way, if everyone stops arguing with the troll then we ALL win.

Not a sermon, just a thought. ;)
Look at the 1st drive of the Super Bowl. Ben and the offense looked great. It happens more times than not bro. In regards to me being a troll? Sticks and Stones bro

HeHateMe
06-01-2010, 09:02 PM
This is a response to a Lefty ballwasher that someone posted on another forum. I thought it summed things up quite nicely.


The Leftwich ballwashing is getting pretty tiring, even for someone like me that mostly just lurks and reads posts.

For starters, he was 4-1 ( 0-0 technically because he didn't start any of the games), one of the 5 games he threw a pass in was in the loss to the Eagles.

And it's an anomaly because only twice in those games was he in the game during a meaningful amount of time, and one of the times was in a meaningless week 17 game with the division and a first round bye already locked up.

Vs Houston - Leftwich takes his first snap when the game is already 35-3 in the first quarter.
1st possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Houston responds with a TD

2nd possession? 1 incomplete pass in a 3&Out, Harrison and Woodley force and recover a Schaub fumble and Pit gets the ball back on the Houston 28

3rd possession? Lefty throws 2 more incomplete passes, but Pit's already in FG range. FG is made, Houston scores another TD but it's too late, and Lefty kneels.

Leftwich contribution? 4 incomplete passes, all 4 net yards with Lefty undercenter come from 5 handoffs to Mendenhall.

vs Eagles - There's two minutes left and the Eagles are up 9, but Leftwich manages to look pretty competent here. He goes 4 for 7 to move the ball 60 yards against a prevent D, but the possession ends when Lefty takes a 9 yard loss on a sack on 3rd and 1, then throws incomplete on 4th down.

vs Bengals - Leftwich saves the day with a touchdown pass in the final minutes. Except the Steelers were already up 31-10 with under 5 minutes to go in the 4th, Leftwich started out on the Bengals' 34 yard line, and the first player with a hand on the pass was John Joseph who tipped the ball into Ward's hands.

vs Redskins - Lefty's best game as a Steeler. He comes in after halftime when the Steelers are leading 10-6 (due to a Roethlisberger rushing TD mind you) and posts up 129 Yards, contributing to 2 scoring drives including a Leftwich TD pass. During this half, the Steelers D continues to make the skins look incompetent, intercepting Campbell twice and stopping two 4th down attempts in Pit territory, once on the goal line.

vs Browns - A nice Leftwich showing. He comes in mid-drive when Ben gets hurt and he gets to start out in Cleveland territory. He contributes to 3 scoring drives (2 of them when he started out in Cleveland territory) including a rushing TD, to push a 7-0 lead to a 24-0 lead, when the Steelers D completes their rout of the Browns offense with an int return TD.

Leftwich played well, but only in the Redskins game and maybe the Browns game did he have any real impact at all (in two games where the defense had been dominating regardless), and accomplished nothing notable against a prevent D, the only time he came in when the Steelers weren't already leading.


This an ERRONEOUS POST. Lets see for example in the Eagles game Jim Johnson is QUOTED as saying "I had to call off the blitz because leftwich was burning us". There was NO prevent defense. Thats an out and out LIE. In fact he was sacked ONCE that game. Fact is he burned the blitz and lead us down the field. Something BEN COULD NOT DO. Secondly, he hit Nate Washington in the HANDS in the endzone and Nate DROPPED the pass. WHY didnt the poster mention that? CAN YOU SAY BIAS? But you knew that when he said "against a prevent defense". Jim Johnson blitzes the crap out of the starter but is going to sit back in a prevent vs the backup? Jim Johnson doesnt believe in a PREVENT ESPECIALLY IN A ONE POSSESSION GAME lol

Vs Redskins- We are LEADING due to a BLOCKED punt NOT Ben. Yes Ben scored on a ONE YARD dive. That drive was manufactured by the blocked punt, NOT BY BEN. The Skins D were giving Ben FITS, he was taking sacks and playing badly. Enter Leftwich. On his 1st pass he hits a streaking Nate Washington. He underthrew him but nothing like the fair catch punts that Ben underthrows. How about the audible inside the 10? Leftwich noticed that the corner was playing off of Tone so he audibles and hits Tone for a quick strike and TD. Try to DIMINISH what Leftwich did all you want but the facts are that he OUTPLAYED BEN in both the Skins and the Browns game. Worth noting- Ben threw a HORRIBLE pick in the redzone before he was carted out of the Browns game. Leftwich contributed to TWENTY FOUR points in 3 qtrs.


vs. Skins- Leftwich 7-10 129 yards 1 TD 145 rating
- Big Ben 5-17 50 1 INT 15.1 rating


vs. Browns Leftwich 7-12 80 yards 78.5 rating 1 Td run
Big Ben 9-14 110 yards 1 INT 58.6 rating

vs. Eagles Big Ben 13-25 131 yards 1 INT 50.6 rating
Leftwich 4-7 60 yards 85.4 rating

bottomline lefwhich could not win the starting job in tampa bay last season. Big Ben 2 superbowl rings , byron leftwich 0.

Uh WHO started in week 1 for Tampa? It was Lefwich Sir. Ike Taylor has 2 SB rings and Champ Bailey has none, does that mean that Ike is better? Of course not. Ben has 2 and Marino has zero, Steve Young 1 does that mean Ben is better? Come on bro.

NJ-STEELER
06-01-2010, 11:01 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":2zqfbn6p]he still was looking to bang a girl in a restroom of a club. being a public figurte, that really doesn't look good on someone's resume...despite it not being a crime

what would you like to hear from his teammates? something like this?

"yeah, me and ben go out together all the time when we're on the road and i know he doesn't force himself on women, we do try and bang lots of chicks... its easy getting laid when your out with a superstar"



where were the commets of other players/friends coming to the defense of harrison afetr he allegedly smacked up his baby's momma?
what about after the thrown glass incident with santonio? do you have any teammates statements about how it isn't like him to do that sort of thing?
Harrison admitted his wrongdoing and SEVERAL of his teammates have testified that he has a temper. What ever came of Santonio and the glass throwing incident? Are you really comparing that bro? WOW
NO teammate stood up for Tone either. It is telling and THANKS for making my point

ben has admitted his wrong doing and not appealed the suspension. and is taking his "punishment"

funny, you ask why haven't any teammates come and backed Ben and say he isn't that type of guy.

i answer by bringing up no teammates have said anything about holmes or Debo incidents.... basically all of them mind their personnal business

you come back and change the question and ask why i'm comparing the two when you realize you were proven wrong.


just like you state " FACT" about how Ben would fair with the bills...that is not a Fact, its an opinion, conjecture

a fact would be kurt warner playing for the giants and looking horrible in that stint. or do you think its just an opinion because you never watched any of the games he played there
How am I proven wrong? You make my point. Harrison WAS WRONG AND GUILTY so the "mates" didnt speak out in his behalf. Its the SAME with Ben. You don't think IF Ben was charged with a crime he DIDN'T commit that his teammates wouldnt speak out in his behalf? Are you that naive? Did Hines mind his own business when he criticized Ben last season? Did Tone when He did the same? Come on bro.
It is a FACT that Ben has been statistically AVERAGE on a GREAT team like the Steelers. So what do you think those stats will be on a BELOW AVERAGE team? How did Steve Young look on the Buccaneers? How did he look on the 9ers? It is COMMON sense bro but you keep BELIEVING that Ben would great on the Bills. Ben gets sacked FIFTY times on the GREAT Steelers but that would Improve on the HORRIBLE Bills? Ok. As long as YOU believe that. I don't.[/quote:2zqfbn6p]

how the fu*k are players that weren't there going to comment on something like that, be it good bad or nuetral. you're taking the players non opinion as a negative on Ben....as you do with most things.... why would a player who is married/have a girlfriend possibluy get himself in trouble with his mate with a comment on an incident which at best turned oiut to be public sex in a bathroom, think bro.

and again on ben with the bills....no matter how many times you say it ...its still an opinion. i'll tell you one thing the bills had they we (before the draft) haven't had in a while. an offensive lineman on the roster that was drafted in the 1st two rounds. hopefully that area starts to improve so the running game improves as the sack numbers go down

you bring up steve young but fail to mention that he was a young QB out of college when first with tampa (when most QBs will struggle) not that he sat and learned under montana before being put in that lineup

HeHateMe
06-02-2010, 02:41 AM
The EXACT same way that YOU are commenting on something without having knowledge. Of course they weren't eyewitnesses to what happened then but they could speak out on his behalf about prior times out with him. ThE fact that theY didnt speaks volumes. NOT EVEN KEISEL, that is odd. OR Telling. IF it was "public sex" in a bathroom then WHY did Ben tell the Police that he DIDN'T have sex with her in that bathroom? HOW did Ben's DNA (male) get on her? Although it wasnt enough to identify we can assume that it was Bens. So if they had "sex" in the bathroom ACCORDING TO YOU then why did Ben lie to the Police and say he did not? http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4984207

It is no secret that Ben is NOT well liked by his teammates. These are the guys who play, practice and party with him. Do you think that it is an accident that Ben didnt win the Team MVP in 07 when he DEFINITELY deserved it? I shouldnt have to document this because it is common knowledge that Ben is not liked by his Teammates (you know the rest of the STEELERS)
http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/04/13/p ... -like-him/ (http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/04/13/prisco-roethlisberger-arrogant-teammates-dont-like-him/)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdo ... nfl,236615 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Roethlisberger-wasn-t-a-popular-Steeler-even-be?urn=nfl,236615)

And Didnt Hines say the "SUSPENSION WAS JUSTIFIED"??????????
http://blog.taragana.com/sports/2010/04 ... tes-97831/ (http://blog.taragana.com/sports/2010/04/30/ward-roethlisbergers-suspension-justified-and-is-causing-uncertainty-among-teammates-97831/)

IF you dont accept that proof shall I let you hear it from BENS OWN MOUTH? Watch this interview of how Charlie Batch sat him down and told him what the rest of the STEELERS felt about him. Ben said "IT HURT" Notice in the piece Ben states "The people that know me and that I'm close with know that this is ridiculous (allegations)" If that is true then WHERE are those "people" that he is talking about? Why are those "people" silent? I'm just sayin.........
And when someone has to TELL YOU to interact with your teammates, is it geniune? I don't know.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4641995



IF you think that Ben will be a success on the Bills then so be it. I do not. Sorry.
Lastly, Steve Young was NOT a young QB out of College on the Bucs. You may be too young but I am not. Steve Young started off in the USFL for the L.A. Express, he played 2 years there before coming to Tampa. He sucked on the bucs because they were a terrible team (like they are now). I am not saying that Montana didn't Help him but his success was due more in part to the SYSTEM than to Montana. The reason I say that is because several QB's had success in that system after Montana (Young, Bono, Grbac, Garcia)

I will say this again. I do not feel that Leftwich is better than Ben. HOWEVER, I think that his pressence will make Ben focus more and that is a plus for the Steelers. Ben played in the same conference as Lefwich in college and he knows 1st hand how good he can be and he remembers how well Leftwich played in 08. I think it will benefit us to have him there. After all a FOCUSED Ben is a AWESOME BEN. FACT

Crash
06-02-2010, 03:44 AM
The SAME way they missed the Playoffs 2 out of Bens 6 seasons. Elite QB's dont let that happen. SORRY

Ben after six years in the league, 4 playoffs.

Peyton after six years in the league, 4 playoffs.

Brady after six years in the league, 4 playoffs.

Brees after six years in the league, 2 playoffs. Brees has been to the playoffs three times in 9 career seasons in the league. Ben is 4 of 6. But Brees is better? You aren't making sense.

If Ben isn't elite, none of the others are either DUM DUM.

SORRY

Crash
06-02-2010, 04:15 AM
People may hate your approach but this right here is money. How many times have we watched the first 15 SCRIPTED plays march us down the field for a TD then for 2 quarters we look like trash?

You mean when Ben comes out throwing, we get a lead, and then we get too concerned with playing "Stiller Football" and try to establish the run?

Yeah, I wonder that myself.

Then it doesn't work, we get behind, and in the 4th we let Ben go and turn him loose.

Just like Dan Reeves did to John Elway, and that drove Elway nuts.

Crash
06-02-2010, 04:21 AM
What did Ben do to get us a 17-7 lead in SB 43?

Did you watch how he started that game?


Did you see the game vs the Giants in 08? Ben had like 4 or 5 turnovers. If that happens to any other team it is a blowout. Not to the GREAT Steelers though. We still had a chance to win that game and should have.

You are right. If Willie Colon makes his block they have a 23-9 lead. Instead he got nabbed for holding.


Did you see the Vikings game last season? What did Ben do?

Threw a TD pass to Wallace and had another TD wiped out by a penalty.

STOP READING BOX SCORES AND WATCH THE GAME DUM DUM.


Uh Ben backed up TAMMY Maddox and Rivers backed up Brees.

If Brees was so good why did they get Rivers? Point is little man is that Brees was so inconsistent as a Charger they felt the need to replace him.

What has Philip Rivers ever done besides play in the **** AFC West? What big games has he won? Squat. Ben's outplayed Rivers in three of the four games they've faced each other.


1. Did BEN really score a TD? I know he was credited for 1 but come on bro THAT WAS NO TD and WE ALL KNOW THAT. But of course we will take it. It was a 1 inch plunge and he didnt get in but if you want to give him credit I digress. LOL

The tip of the ball broke the plain. Ben's body is irrelevant sir, it's the BALL that matters.


Uh WHO started in week 1 for Tampa? It was Lefwich Sir

Who got benched in Tampa? It was Leftwich Sir.


It is no secret that Ben is NOT well liked by his teammates.

The actual quotes from teammates prove that incorrect sir. Hines Ward is only one guy, and it was Ward who was campaigning for Harrison in 2007 MVP voting.

Bye now.

Preacher
06-02-2010, 04:41 AM
1. Did BEN really score a TD? I know he was credited for 1 but come on bro THAT WAS NO TD and WE ALL KNOW THAT. But of course we will take it. It was a 1 inch plunge and he didnt get in but if you want to give him credit I digress. LOL

The tip of the ball broke the plain. Ben's body is irrelevant sir, it's the BALL that matters.



Um, we can solve this one REAL fast. I just happen to have a picture handy for JUST SUCH OCCASIONS!

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/meraby/XL_ben_is_in1.jpg

Look at that!

TOUCHDOWN

frankthetank1
06-02-2010, 10:32 AM
wow 17 pages?? just let this thread die already haha. there is no use in debating with the only person on the face of the earth that actually thinks lefty is better than ben. this is pretty funny though.