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hawaiiansteel
05-11-2010, 03:32 AM
Steelers' Smith bounces back from surgery

By Scott Brown, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, May 11, 2010


http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2010-05-10/0511smithinsideCAP-b.jpg


Running alone in the Steelers' cavernous indoor practice facility recently, Aaron Smith slowed down for a second.

"Just trying to fool 'em for one more year," he called out.

"That's the running joke around here," Smith later explained. "You always act like you can't play and you're trying to fool your coaches into thinking you can play, and they keep you around."

Long one of the top 3-4 defensive ends in the NFL, Smith only has to fool Father Time these days. And the latter isn't faring much better than opposing offensive linemen do against Smith.

Despite turning 34 last month and coming off major shoulder injury that limited his to five games in 2009, Smith shows no signs of slowing down. He has been a full participant in offseason practices, even though doctors told Smith he might be significantly limited in football-related activities until July.

How someone at such an advanced football age could heal so quickly from a torn rotator cuff sustained last September is a mystery even to Smith.

"If I had an answer I could sell it, huh?" the 12th-year veteran said, smiling.

Smith professes not to have an answer either for how the product of a Division II school, Northern Colorado, has become an anchor of one of the stoutest defenses in the NFL.

What can't be questioned is the fact that Smith has secured a spot in the pantheon of great Steelers players.

He is eighth on the team's all-time sacks list (43) despite playing a position that is not conducive to piling up statistics, and the 6-foot-5, 298-pounder has won a pair of Super Bowl rings.

Since Smith broke into the starting lineup in 2000, the Steelers have led the NFL in rushing defense three times. They have finished outside of the top three in that category just twice.

"He's the best run player in this league," Steelers assistant head coach/defensive line coach John Mitchell said. "He cannot be blocked."

Smith has been blocked from one thing during his distinguished career: multiple trips to the Pro Bowl.

Smith has been selected to just one Pro Bowl, which to most in the Steelers' organization is at best an oversight and at worst something that should be looked into by a congressional subcommittee.

Not that Smith has ever complained about the lack of accolades.

"When I first got here, I thought I would play three years and just back people up and save a little money and get on with the rest of my life," Smith said. "This has far exceeded anything I've ever dreamed of."

It hasn't surprised Mitchell.

When the Steelers took Smith in the fourth round of the 1999 draft, he was a raw but intriguing player with superb athleticism and elite lower body strength.

Smith never had a position coach in college, and when he joined the Steelers he essentially turned himself over as a blank canvas to Mitchell.

That he is a polished if not yet finished product is a testament to both Smith and Mitchell.

"If I had a company or was a CEO, he would be the guy that I want because he's going to come to work, he's going to do everything you ask and even the things you don't ask." Mitchell said. "Aaron Smith's not playing this game for the money or notoriety. He's playing this game because he wants to be one of the best players when you're talking about defensive ends in the National Football League."

So much of Smith's value to the team is hard to measure by the untrained eye.

His ability to take on multiple blockers has helped the Steelers' defense consistently accomplish its No. 1 goal of shutting down the run. He has also served as a mentor to players such as Brett Keisel, who starts opposite Smith.

The two have made Mitchell's job easier.

Whenever Mitchell wants to make a point to young defensive ends such as Ziggy Hood and Sunny Harris, he'll show them tape off Smith and Keisel running 20 yards down field to tag a running back during a mid-week or offseason practice.

"There's no question I wouldn't be where I'm at without (Smith's) help," said Keisel, who is entering his fifth season as a starter. "He's one of the all-time Steelers greats in my opinion."

One of the toughest, too.

"Aaron Smith played three games this last season that the average guy wouldn't have played because he had one arm," Mitchell said of the rotator cuff injury Smith sustained in the second game of 2009. "And he would have played the whole season if we would have let him."

Battling through adversity is nothing new for Smith.

He had to overcome a torn biceps muscle that cost him the final four games of the 2007 season and contributed to the collapse of the Steelers' run defense.

In October of 2008, Smith's son, Elijah, was diagnosed with cancer of the white blood cells.

Elijah has made remarkable progress, and while he is still undergoing chemotherapy all signs point to him making a full recovery.

"He's in what they consider maintenance and he does everything a normal boy does," Smith said. "He goes to school, he participates in sports, after-school activities."

Elijah will soon become a big brother for the third time. Smith and his wife, Jaimie, are expecting their fifth child.

More family responsibilities don't figure to dampen Smith's enthusiasm for football. Smith recently indicated that he'd like to continue playing beyond the five-year contract he signed with the Steelers in 2007.

Indeed, when asked if the finish line is drawing closer, Smith said, "If it is, it's way out there in the distance. I really enjoy playing, and when the time comes somebody will let me know. I don't think I'll be able to see it — I think someone else will have to tell me."

SACK ATTACK

Defensive end Aaron Smith ranks among the Steelers' all-time leaders in sacks. Here are the top 10 in that category:

Name (Position) Tenure — Sacks

Jason Gildon (Linebacker) 1994-2003 — 77

L.C. Greenwood (Defensive end) 1969-81 — 73.5

Joe Greene (Defensive tackle) 1969-81 — 66

Joey Porter (Linebacker) 1999-2006 — 60

Keith Willis (Defensive end) 1982-87, '89-91 — 59

Greg Lloyd (Linebacker) 1988-97 — 53.5

Dwight White (Defensive end) 1971-80 — 46

Aaron Smith (Defensive end) 1999-present — 43

Ernie Holmes (Defensive tackle) 1972-77 — 40

James Harrison (Linebacker) 2002-present — 38

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_680460.html

Oviedo
05-11-2010, 07:43 AM
Let's hope that Smith's body can hold up for one more year and we get to see one more season of superb play. Hopefully as the article says Hood and Harris see what it takes to be a Pro and emulate Smith.

Coach Mitchell is probably a very unappreciated part of the defense. Coach LeBeau gets the rep but Mitchell IMO may be the best coach on the defense as far as teaching a position and improving players.

flippy
05-11-2010, 10:01 AM
Smith is in my top 10 Steelers of all time.

phillyesq
05-11-2010, 10:47 AM
Let's hope that Smith's body can hold up for one more year and we get to see one more season of superb play. Hopefully as the article says Hood and Harris see what it takes to be a Pro and emulate Smith.

Coach Mitchell is probably a very unappreciated part of the defense. Coach LeBeau gets the rep but Mitchell IMO may be the best coach on the defense as far as teaching a position and improving players.

I may be greedy here, but I hope we get more than one year from Smith. He is such an easy player to root for, and has been such a big part of the defense for a long time. I'm glad to hear that his recovery is going well.

Shawn
05-11-2010, 11:14 AM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

ikestops85
05-11-2010, 11:42 AM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

I have to disagree with you. Smith's last year of full time play was 2008 and we hardly gave up any rushing yards at all ... let alone massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I'd really like to see where that stat was posted to determine how they gathered the data.

Smith is still a great player but I do think Ziggy needs to be rotated in on a consistent basis for both Smith and Keisel.

phillyesq
05-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

We must have been watching different games, because I don't remember anything like this at all. I'd like to see Ziggy rotated into the games, especially in passing situations, but no way should he start over Smith.

hawaiiansteel
05-11-2010, 05:14 PM
Let's hope that Smith's body can hold up for one more year and we get to see one more season of superb play. Hopefully as the article says Hood and Harris see what it takes to be a Pro and emulate Smith.

Coach Mitchell is probably a very unappreciated part of the defense. Coach LeBeau gets the rep but Mitchell IMO may be the best coach on the defense as far as teaching a position and improving players.



I agree, we are very lucky to have John Mitchell as our DL coach...


Mitchell's job getting easier with age

May 10th, 2010


It is fitting that Steelers assistant head coach/defensive line coach John Mitchell is a connoisseur of fine wine.

That is because the players he coaches have aged like one of the bottles of wine Mitchell is fond of collecting when he isn’t busy working with one of the best lines in the NFL.

It is also why Mitchell laughs when he hears concerns about the Steelers getting too old up front even though the average age of their three starters is 32.3 years.

Defensive end Aaron Smith may be 34 but the elder statesman of the group isn’t thinking about retirement. Brett Keisel, who starts opposite Smith, is 31 but he is only going into his fifth season as a starter.

Mitchell said Keisel and nose tackle Casey Hampton, 32, are coming off their best seasons with the Steelers.

And Mitchell said Hampton is “working as hard as I’ve ever seen him work” during the offseason. So much for that three-year, $21.2 million contract Hampton signed in February going straight to the five-time Pro Bowler's waistline.

If there is one reason to be optimistic about the long-term future of the defensive line it is 2009 first-round pick Ziggy Hood.

He steadily improved during his rookie season and Mitchell indicated that Hood will be ready to start sooner rather than later should the Steelers need him.

“He’s going to be a heck of a player for us,” Mitchell said of Hood, who had eight tackles and a sack in 2009. “He’s made the decision he wants to be good. A lot of guys don’t make that until their last two, three years in this league. Well, their best years are behind them now.

“(Hood) is here, he gets better, he meets with me. This guy wants to be a good football player and he knows it’s just a matter of time before he’s going to take that one big giant step and be the type of player we want him to be. I’m excited about that guy.”

One reason the Steelers drafted Hood is because of the relentlessness as well as unselfishness he showed while starring at Missouri.

Both qualities make him a perfect fit for the Steelers -- and an eventual heir to Smith or Keisel.

Their influence on younger players such as Hood, second-year defensive end Sunny Harris and rookie defensive end Doug Worthington is one reason why Mitchell thinks the line will be just fine even though age has to become a factor at some point.

Smith, Keisel, Hampton and reserve nose tackle Chris Hoke, Mitchell said, have helped establish a foundation that will allow their contributions to the Steelers to continue even when they are no longer playing.

“It’s a delight for me to sit in my (meeting) room with the young guys when I can put my laser on Brett Keisel and say ‘Hey Ziggy Hood if you want to be a Brett Keisel watch this guy run 20 yards down the field and tag the runner.’ That’s the way you practice,” Mitchell said. “You don’t wait for Sunday, you do it every day. And it makes my job easier because these young guys they see that. Sunny Harris sees Brett Keisel run 15 yards in practice. Not one time, every time.

"So when I tell a guy ‘You’re not running’ all I’ve got to do it flip on the tape and say ‘Hey, you tell me if you’re running like Aaron Smith.’ You don’t have to be a 12-year (veteran) to do that. They make my job easy because of what they do Monday through Thursday.”

http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the- ... ox+Blog%29 (http://blog.triblive.com/view-from-the-press-box/2010/05/10/mitchells-job-getting-easier-with-age/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+triblive%2Fblog%2FViewFromThe PressBox+%28View+from+the+Press+Box+Blog%29)

Shawn
05-11-2010, 05:58 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

I have to disagree with you. Smith's last year of full time play was 2008 and we hardly gave up any rushing yards at all ... let alone massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I'd really like to see where that stat was posted to determine how they gathered the data.

Smith is still a great player but I do think Ziggy needs to be rotated in on a consistent basis for both Smith and Keisel.

Here are the defensive line stats for the NFL. ALY is adjusted line yards...basically how many yards were rushed to that side of the field...then adjusted to neutralize huge runs that might be the fault of the linebackers or secondary. ALY is considered by most football statisticians the most accurate measure of DL success or failure.

As you can see by the chart...Smith being the LDE gave up 4.35 ALY ranking 21st in the league in 2008. Keisel at RDE gave up 2.86 or 6th in the NFL. Compare that to Smith's stats in 2006 where he was the best in the NFL. He ranked first giving up only 1.97 ALY. Keisel didn't fair so well early in his career but has really picked it up. Keisel has been playing very well against the run the last couple seasons.

-------------
2008 Stats

LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
1 BAL 3.29 6 3.54 7 3.09 1 2.97 3 3.09 9
2 CHI 2.13 1 3.08 4 3.62 3 4.08 17 2.42 1
3 NYG 3.15 4 3.32 5 3.27 2 3.97 15 3.12 10
4 MIN 3.56 8 3.95 10 3.62 4 3.45 5 2.57 3
5 TEN 2.52 2 2.69 1 3.85 7 3.32 4 5.39 31
6 PHI 3.24 5 3.04 3 4.21 17 4.31 24 3.02 7
7 BUF 4.15 18 4.40 19 3.73 6 3.46 6 3.02 8
8 PIT 4.35 21 4.83 29 3.63 5 3.95 13 2.86 6
9 NYJ 4.11 16 4.42 21 3.92 9 4.22 20 2.83 5
10 JAC 4.09 15 4.67 26 4.05 11 3.85 11 3.25 12
11 TB 3.83 13 4.56 24 4.15 13 3.83 10 2.73 4
12 SF 3.36 7 4.63 25 3.96 10 4.03 16 4.24 21
13 NE 4.30 20 2.88 2 4.18 14 4.26 22 4.41 24
14 MIA 3.64 9 3.80 8 4.29 19 4.30 23 3.13 11
15 ARI 4.91 27 4.02 12 4.60 29 2.75 1 4.13 19
16 CIN 5.08 30 3.95 11 4.49 26 3.96 14 2.54 2
LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
17 SEA 4.12 17 4.41 20 4.20 16 3.82 9 4.13 20
18 DAL 2.86 3 4.04 14 4.21 18 4.66 28 4.94 28
19 ATL 4.44 23 5.25 31 3.86 8 4.19 18 3.96 17
20 NO 4.42 22 4.25 18 4.18 15 4.26 21 4.01 18
21 IND 3.81 10 4.04 13 4.51 27 4.19 19 3.54 13
22 DEN 3.82 12 4.48 23 4.41 24 4.52 25 3.74 14
23 WAS 4.28 19 4.19 16 4.53 28 3.78 8 4.33 22
24 CAR 4.75 24 4.46 22 4.65 31 2.93 2 3.92 15
25 SD 4.86 26 4.75 28 4.10 12 3.61 7 5.91 32
26 KC 5.02 29 4.23 17 4.37 22 4.86 29 3.94 16
27 GB 4.83 25 3.37 6 4.41 25 5.09 30 4.59 25
28 OAK 3.81 11 4.09 15 4.37 21 5.19 31 5.36 30
29 DET 4.09 14 5.07 30 5.01 32 3.86 12 4.34 23
30 HOU 5.01 28 5.44 32 4.40 23 4.65 27 4.61 26
31 STL 5.74 32 3.89 9 4.36 20 5.20 32 5.28 29
32 CLE 5.44 31 4.72 27 4.61 30 4.54 26 4.83 27
x NFL 4.15 x 4.16 x 4.16 x 4.09 x 3.93 x
----------

2006 stats

LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
1 MIN 2.03 3 2.47 1 2.84 1 2.66 1 3.01 7
2 BAL 2.72 4 2.99 2 3.74 2 3.46 8 2.23 1
3 JAC 3.05 5 3.01 4 3.88 6 2.77 3 4.11 18
4 CHI 4.09 16 3.45 7 3.85 4 4.09 16 2.97 3
5 NYG 3.49 10 2.99 3 4.17 16 2.73 2 4.75 27
6 MIA 3.62 12 4.40 16 4.00 9 3.20 5 2.98 5
7 PIT 1.97 2 4.71 21 3.86 5 4.03 13 4.54 24
8 NE 3.24 7 4.25 15 4.08 12 2.79 4 4.05 16
9 CAR 3.50 11 4.54 19 3.95 8 4.46 22 3.46 10
10 SEA 3.73 13 4.72 22 4.12 14 3.34 6 2.85 2
11 OAK 3.86 15 3.31 5 4.06 11 4.56 23 4.56 25
12 ATL 5.04 29 3.52 8 4.14 15 3.51 10 4.92 30
13 SD 4.39 20 4.12 14 4.17 17 4.26 18 2.97 4
14 TB 3.48 9 3.34 6 4.38 19 4.97 30 3.80 13
15 KC 4.37 19 4.02 10 3.82 3 4.78 29 4.85 29
16 CIN 3.38 8 4.44 17 4.57 26 3.50 9 3.45 9
LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
17 NO 4.49 22 4.75 24 4.11 13 3.46 7 3.95 15
18 ARI 3.20 6 4.48 18 4.64 28 4.30 19 4.34 20
19 DAL 5.38 31 4.12 13 4.00 10 4.74 28 3.92 14
20 HOU 5.39 32 4.04 11 3.94 7 4.72 26 4.46 22
21 PHI 4.14 18 5.16 29 4.47 21 4.73 27 2.99 6
22 DEN 4.95 27 4.54 20 4.34 18 4.04 14 3.65 12
23 DET 3.79 14 5.52 32 4.53 22 3.97 12 4.40 21
24 GB 4.55 23 4.80 25 4.60 27 3.53 11 4.24 19
25 TEN 4.85 25 3.97 9 4.41 20 4.08 15 5.19 31
26 SF 4.10 17 4.07 12 4.72 29 4.59 24 4.77 28
27 CLE 4.87 26 4.95 27 4.54 23 4.43 21 5.44 32
28 STL 4.85 24 4.72 23 4.84 31 4.38 20 3.55 11
29 BUF 5.27 30 5.02 28 4.74 30 4.12 17 4.08 17
30 WAS 4.45 21 5.34 31 4.55 24 4.70 25 4.61 26
31 IND 1.78 1 4.94 26 4.87 32 5.62 31 3.17 8
32 NYJ 4.96 28 5.21 30 4.57 25 5.64 32 4.52 23
x NFL 4.08 x 4.33 x 4.25 x 4.14 x 4.00 x

-----------------

Most fans love for Smith is based on his play in 2006 and before. This is not in line with his play in 2008. He has clearly lost a step.

Shawn
05-11-2010, 07:36 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

We must have been watching different games, because I don't remember anything like this at all. I'd like to see Ziggy rotated into the games, especially in passing situations, but no way should he start over Smith.

Check out the stats above.

BURGH86STEEL
05-11-2010, 07:44 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

I agree that Smith's best days are behind him. The years have taken their toll. I don't think he can hold up as a full time starter. Smith will probably start but I expect Hood to handle at least 50% of the plays. That might help Smith to stay on the field.

This could be Smith's last year with the Steelers. One more injury and the Steelers will have no choice but to move on.

feltdizz
05-11-2010, 07:55 PM
If this was Casey Hampton coming off surgery and a missed season half the board would scream for a trade. :stirpot

Shawn
05-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

I agree that Smith's best days are behind him. The years have taken their toll. I don't think he can hold up as a full time starter. Smith will probably start but I expect Hood to handle at least 50% of the plays. That might help Smith to stay on the field.

This could be Smith's last year with the Steelers. One more injury and the Steelers will have no choice but to move on.

I actually just looked up his stats in 2007 as well. He has dropped off significantly since 2006. I think our love for Smith is based on memories and sentimentality.

BURGH86STEEL
05-11-2010, 08:13 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

I agree that Smith's best days are behind him. The years have taken their toll. I don't think he can hold up as a full time starter. Smith will probably start but I expect Hood to handle at least 50% of the plays. That might help Smith to stay on the field.

This could be Smith's last year with the Steelers. One more injury and the Steelers will have no choice but to move on.

I actually just looked up his stats in 2007 as well. He has dropped off significantly since 2006. I think our love for Smith is based on memories and sentimentality.

I think it is difficult to use stats as a factor to judge the Dlines performance. I think we would have to break down the Dlines performance by watching games. That is because the Dlinemen could be doing their jobs. If a LB, S, or CB misses a tackle or does not fill a gap then things can get out of hand in the run game.

Shawn
05-11-2010, 11:08 PM
Smith has been a terrific player for the Steelers...no doubt about it. But, during his last year of full time play he was giving up massive rushing yards to his side of the field. I seen a stat about a year ago and Keisel was playing at a higher level. While I'm rooting for Smith...I would rather see Hood start and Smith spell Hood. All good things come to an end and I believe Smith's best days are long behind him. It's time to get our youth movement in full swing.

I agree that Smith's best days are behind him. The years have taken their toll. I don't think he can hold up as a full time starter. Smith will probably start but I expect Hood to handle at least 50% of the plays. That might help Smith to stay on the field.

This could be Smith's last year with the Steelers. One more injury and the Steelers will have no choice but to move on.

I actually just looked up his stats in 2007 as well. He has dropped off significantly since 2006. I think our love for Smith is based on memories and sentimentality.

I think it is difficult to use stats as a factor to judge the Dlines performance. I think we would have to break down the Dlines performance by watching games. That is because the Dlinemen could be doing their jobs. If a LB, S, or CB misses a tackle or does not fill a gap then things can get out of hand in the run game.

You have a point if we are using average rushing yards per side but we are not. I was showing ALY...which is adjusted line yards based on many factors including neutralizing 10+ yard gains due to the linebackers and secondary. Anyone who studies the math of football knows it's a good indicator of line play because it tries to isolate the line. While stats never tell all the story it's obvious that Smith fell almost 2 whole yards from 2006 to 2008. Thats a drastic drop off...the kind of drastic we seen in Farrior last season. Despite having tackles and stats it was obvious Farrior couldn't get the job done anymore in passing situations.

SS Laser
05-12-2010, 12:01 AM
Does this dline stat figure in the LB on that side? You say for 10+ yards yes. But some times it seems the LB make the tackle while the DE's are taking care of a block. Just saying. I think Haggans may have been better vs the run then a young Woodly? Either way lets see how he does after this injury. GO Aaron!!

Shawn
05-12-2010, 12:54 AM
Does this dline stat figure in the LB on that side? You say for 10+ yards yes. But some times it seems the LB make the tackle while the DE's are taking care of a block. Just saying. I think Haggans may have been better vs the run then a young Woodly? Either way lets see how he does after this injury. GO Aaron!!

I think that's valid. But, I'm not sure I buy that Haggan was that much better than a young Woodley against the run. Certainly not 1st to 21st to the left side better.

ikestops85
05-12-2010, 01:34 PM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

Shawn
05-12-2010, 01:50 PM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

It merely shows runs to the left, right and middle and the ALY is adjusted to take out long gains that were secondary issues. I agree in the 3-4 the LOLB plays a huge role. If you wanted to suggest that it was the team of Woodley and Smith that let down the left side in 08 then so be it. It's really hard to argue with that. And while no stat is perfect ALY is considered a pretty good indicator of how the left side of the defense is playing against the run. In 06 the left side was first in the league. In 07 they dropped off significantly and in 08 they were 21st. Was that because of Woodley? So, Woodley's play clearly improved yet the left side dropped off? And I have to disagree with your thoughts on the ALY stat. Like I have said before, guys that look at the game from a mathmatical stand point consider ALY a significantly better stat then overall NFL ranking against the run when you want to isolate "the box". Your point about how good our run D was is reasonable but looking at the stats it's because the middle and the right side have played lights out run support. Their stats are elite.

ikestops85
05-12-2010, 02:49 PM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

It merely shows runs to the left, right and middle and the ALY is adjusted to take out long gains that were secondary issues. I agree in the 3-4 the LOLB plays a huge role. If you wanted to suggest that it was the team of Woodley and Smith that let down the left side in 08 then so be it. It's really hard to argue with that. And while no stat is perfect ALY is considered a pretty good indicator of how the left side of the defense is playing against the run. In 06 the left side was first in the league. In 07 they dropped off significantly and in 08 they were 21st. Was that because of Woodley? So, Woodley's play clearly improved yet the left side dropped off? And I have to disagree with your thoughts on the ALY stat. Like I have said before, guys that look at the game from a mathmatical stand point consider ALY a significantly better stat then overall NFL ranking against the run when you want to isolate "the box". Your point about how good our run D was is reasonable but looking at the stats it's because the middle and the right side have played lights out run support. Their stats are elite.

Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

See this table (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl) where it states

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

cruzer8
05-12-2010, 03:27 PM
Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

So you mean those of us who witness Smith dominating aren't hallucinating? :D

RuthlessBurgher
05-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

So you mean those of us who witness Smith dominating aren't hallucinating? :D

We're still hallucinating. Just hallucinating about other things, not Aaron Smith. :wink:

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0909/hallucinating-september-challenge-hallucinating-phoebe-cates-demotivational-poster-1251909743.jpg

ikestops85
05-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

So you mean those of us who witness Smith dominating aren't hallucinating? :D

You got it ... I know I have some beers during games but I just never saw what Shawn was implying from the stats.

Now back to my beers :Cheers

Shawn
05-12-2010, 04:31 PM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

It merely shows runs to the left, right and middle and the ALY is adjusted to take out long gains that were secondary issues. I agree in the 3-4 the LOLB plays a huge role. If you wanted to suggest that it was the team of Woodley and Smith that let down the left side in 08 then so be it. It's really hard to argue with that. And while no stat is perfect ALY is considered a pretty good indicator of how the left side of the defense is playing against the run. In 06 the left side was first in the league. In 07 they dropped off significantly and in 08 they were 21st. Was that because of Woodley? So, Woodley's play clearly improved yet the left side dropped off? And I have to disagree with your thoughts on the ALY stat. Like I have said before, guys that look at the game from a mathmatical stand point consider ALY a significantly better stat then overall NFL ranking against the run when you want to isolate "the box". Your point about how good our run D was is reasonable but looking at the stats it's because the middle and the right side have played lights out run support. Their stats are elite.

Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

See this table (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl) where it states

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

You are correct if you are going off the left tackle stats. I was quoting the numbers from the left end.

Shawn
05-12-2010, 04:32 PM
LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
1 BAL 3.29 6 3.54 7 3.09 1 2.97 3 3.09 9
2 CHI 2.13 1 3.08 4 3.62 3 4.08 17 2.42 1
3 NYG 3.15 4 3.32 5 3.27 2 3.97 15 3.12 10
4 MIN 3.56 8 3.95 10 3.62 4 3.45 5 2.57 3
5 TEN 2.52 2 2.69 1 3.85 7 3.32 4 5.39 31
6 PHI 3.24 5 3.04 3 4.21 17 4.31 24 3.02 7
7 BUF 4.15 18 4.40 19 3.73 6 3.46 6 3.02 8
8 PIT 4.35 21 4.83 29 3.63 5 3.95 13 2.86 6
9 NYJ 4.11 16 4.42 21 3.92 9 4.22 20 2.83 5
10 JAC 4.09 15 4.67 26 4.05 11 3.85 11 3.25 12
11 TB 3.83 13 4.56 24 4.15 13 3.83 10 2.73 4
12 SF 3.36 7 4.63 25 3.96 10 4.03 16 4.24 21
13 NE 4.30 20 2.88 2 4.18 14 4.26 22 4.41 24
14 MIA 3.64 9 3.80 8 4.29 19 4.30 23 3.13 11
15 ARI 4.91 27 4.02 12 4.60 29 2.75 1 4.13 19
16 CIN 5.08 30 3.95 11 4.49 26 3.96 14 2.54

ikestops85
05-13-2010, 01:22 AM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

It merely shows runs to the left, right and middle and the ALY is adjusted to take out long gains that were secondary issues. I agree in the 3-4 the LOLB plays a huge role. If you wanted to suggest that it was the team of Woodley and Smith that let down the left side in 08 then so be it. It's really hard to argue with that. And while no stat is perfect ALY is considered a pretty good indicator of how the left side of the defense is playing against the run. In 06 the left side was first in the league. In 07 they dropped off significantly and in 08 they were 21st. Was that because of Woodley? So, Woodley's play clearly improved yet the left side dropped off? And I have to disagree with your thoughts on the ALY stat. Like I have said before, guys that look at the game from a mathmatical stand point consider ALY a significantly better stat then overall NFL ranking against the run when you want to isolate "the box". Your point about how good our run D was is reasonable but looking at the stats it's because the middle and the right side have played lights out run support. Their stats are elite.

Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

See this table (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl) where it states

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

You are correct if you are going off the left tackle stats. I was quoting the numbers from the left end.

The left end goes against the Steeler RIGHT side of the defense ... Keisel and Harrison. Sorry but you have it backwards. The Aaron Smith side (right end) ranks pretty damn high. Don't worry ... we all make mistakes. :lol:

hawaiiansteel
05-13-2010, 03:15 AM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

It merely shows runs to the left, right and middle and the ALY is adjusted to take out long gains that were secondary issues. I agree in the 3-4 the LOLB plays a huge role. If you wanted to suggest that it was the team of Woodley and Smith that let down the left side in 08 then so be it. It's really hard to argue with that. And while no stat is perfect ALY is considered a pretty good indicator of how the left side of the defense is playing against the run. In 06 the left side was first in the league. In 07 they dropped off significantly and in 08 they were 21st. Was that because of Woodley? So, Woodley's play clearly improved yet the left side dropped off? And I have to disagree with your thoughts on the ALY stat. Like I have said before, guys that look at the game from a mathmatical stand point consider ALY a significantly better stat then overall NFL ranking against the run when you want to isolate "the box". Your point about how good our run D was is reasonable but looking at the stats it's because the middle and the right side have played lights out run support. Their stats are elite.

Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

See this table (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl) where it states

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

You are correct if you are going off the left tackle stats. I was quoting the numbers from the left end.

The left end goes against the Steeler RIGHT side of the defense ... Keisel and Harrison. Sorry but you have it backwards. The Aaron Smith side (right end) ranks pretty damn high. Don't worry ... we all make mistakes. :lol:



Keisel and Harrison are both obviously busts... :stirpot

Shawn
05-13-2010, 10:50 AM
How are they coming up with stats for Defensive Tackle on our team? Are they using Smith as the tackle and Woodley as the End. They have numbers for a nose guard so that would be Casey. It's an interesting stat since we were 2nd in the league against the run that year but our best ranking in ALY was 5th.

The only way I see this stat as being meaningful is showing that many draw plays were run to Smith's side of the field. Go back through that season's games and see who gouged us rushing. I'm sorry but I don't see Smith as having lost a step that season or in games last season. This season may be a different story.

It merely shows runs to the left, right and middle and the ALY is adjusted to take out long gains that were secondary issues. I agree in the 3-4 the LOLB plays a huge role. If you wanted to suggest that it was the team of Woodley and Smith that let down the left side in 08 then so be it. It's really hard to argue with that. And while no stat is perfect ALY is considered a pretty good indicator of how the left side of the defense is playing against the run. In 06 the left side was first in the league. In 07 they dropped off significantly and in 08 they were 21st. Was that because of Woodley? So, Woodley's play clearly improved yet the left side dropped off? And I have to disagree with your thoughts on the ALY stat. Like I have said before, guys that look at the game from a mathmatical stand point consider ALY a significantly better stat then overall NFL ranking against the run when you want to isolate "the box". Your point about how good our run D was is reasonable but looking at the stats it's because the middle and the right side have played lights out run support. Their stats are elite.

Shawn, I hate to tell you this but you have the stats reversed. The table lists are from the offensive perspective. So where you see us ranking poorly on the left side that is the left side from the offense and the right side of the defensive line.

See this table (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl) where it states

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

You are correct if you are going off the left tackle stats. I was quoting the numbers from the left end.

The left end goes against the Steeler RIGHT side of the defense ... Keisel and Harrison. Sorry but you have it backwards. The Aaron Smith side (right end) ranks pretty damn high. Don't worry ... we all make mistakes. :lol:

I'm not looking at the LT like you state. I am looking at the LE. The analysis of Aaron Smith wasn't done by me. Like I said, I read it in an article last year and these were the stats that were quoted...looking at the LE stats not the LT. If you don't understand that I am sorry.

Shawn
05-13-2010, 10:51 AM
H...If you look at the right side of the line through that site you will notice a significant increase in play from the right side over the years. Keisel has gotten much better...he has made Harrison better. I suggest that Keisel doesn't get enough love from fans. Him and Harrison are a good team on the right.

cruzer8
05-13-2010, 11:49 AM
H...If you look at the right side of the line through that site you will notice a significant increase in play from the right side over the years. Keisel has gotten much better...he has made Harrison better. I suggest that Keisel doesn't get enough love from fans. Him and Harrison are a good team on the right.

Shawn, you have the stats backwards. Those stats are given from the offensive side of the ball.

So it is Smith's side that is doing better.

Shawn
05-13-2010, 11:53 AM
H...If you look at the right side of the line through that site you will notice a significant increase in play from the right side over the years. Keisel has gotten much better...he has made Harrison better. I suggest that Keisel doesn't get enough love from fans. Him and Harrison are a good team on the right.

Shawn, you have the stats backwards. Those stats are given from the offensive side of the ball.

So it is Smith's side that is doing better.

I won't explain it again...and I guess the statistician that wrote the article got it wrong too.

flippy
05-13-2010, 11:56 AM
How about backside pursuit?

James Harrison always catches guys from behind. He's the best in the business at catching guys from behind. I think he helps runs going away from him more than runs going toward him.

Plus Harrison blitzes more than Woodley.

Both of these are not accounted for in these stats.

Slapstick
05-13-2010, 12:10 PM
I won't explain it again...and I guess the statistician that wrote the article got it wrong too.

Nobody thinks the statistician who wrote the article got it wrong...some people think that perhaps the poster who is quoting the statistician is reading it wrong...

cruzer8
05-13-2010, 12:20 PM
I won't explain it again...and I guess the statistician that wrote the article got it wrong too.

Nobody thinks the statistician who wrote the article got it wrong...some people think that perhaps the poster who is quoting the statistician is reading it wrong...

Correct. Ike even quoted the part from the article where the writer stated the stats were looked at from the offensive side of the ball. Meaning when the offense is facing the defense.

So offensive right means defensive left. And vice-versa. Stats for the right are really for the defensive left. And vice-versa.

Shawn
05-13-2010, 12:43 PM
I won't explain it again...and I guess the statistician that wrote the article got it wrong too.

Nobody thinks the statistician who wrote the article got it wrong...some people think that perhaps the poster who is quoting the statistician is reading it wrong...

Correct. Ike even quoted the part from the article where the writer stated the stats were looked at from the offensive side of the ball. Meaning when the offense is facing the defense.

So offensive right means defensive left. And vice-versa. Stats for the right are really for the defensive left. And vice-versa.


Ugh...that wasn't the article Ike quoted. That was the site the stats were obtained from. The article was a seperate article using those stats. What Ike listed...and why he is confused is because he is looking at the LT...which shows the RE...but I'm using the LE numbers...they are actually listed in the chart.

Anyways...believe what you want to believe guys. I'm done explaining it.

cruzer8
05-13-2010, 02:07 PM
I don't need stats anyway. I watch the games and I see Smith doing his job quite well.