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fordfixer
04-30-2010, 01:49 AM
Roethlisberger's apology certainly sorry

By Nafari Vanaski, GATEWAY NEWSPAPERS
Thursday, April 29, 2010
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 78678.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_678678.html)

I dunno about you, but I think I would have preferred to have Ben Roethlisberger apologize in a three-piece suit, with his hair neatly trimmed in a crew cut, and his eyes glistening with tears as Terry Bradshaw lovingly stroked his shoulder.

Seriously, does he think a statement e-mailed to news outlets fits the bill? That's all we get?

You'd think he had never done anything wrong before. Surely by now, Roethlisberger would have mastered the fine art of the apology. Especially after the first one he offered. He showed up in workout clothes, for crying out loud.

The main thing you want to do when you apologize is maintain eye contact, which you can't do on paper. Eye contact shows sincerity and connects you to the audience.

A show of emotion wouldn't have hurt, either. If you don't enter an apology press conference looking like you've been through the emotional wringer, go chop an onion. Another good trick for crying is imagining something really tragic, like Kordell Stewart's black-and-gold career.

If Ben's going to really sell us on an apology, it's clear what he'll have to do next.

He needs to enter rehab of some sort. Sex, drugs, videotape -- you pick it, boy, but nothing says sorry like a week at a Betty Ford center that none of us could even hope to afford.

If he wants forgiveness, he's going to have to do better than this Tiger-Woods-controlled-environment drivel, isn't he?

He really owes us a major explanation. We are victims of the heightened expectation that we had of him, for no real reason at all, other than that he can throw a football really far, and if you want "one for the pinky toe," he might be your guy.

We could have decided to look up to anybody, but we decided to stick with Ben Roethlisberger.

Pittsburgh, by the way, is where Jonas Salk discovered the cure for polio. But there's no football field named after him. No restaurant came up with a Jonasburger.

Ben is not the first 28-year-old male we know of who acted like a moron and made questionable decisions.

But he really messed up this time, and we certainly have every right to judge this apology and pick it apart, trying to judge its sincerity. It makes complete sense to block out three whole minutes of a news broadcast to determine whether Pittsburghers think he's really sorry. Besides that, we need assurances that he has changed.

Fortunately for Ben, many transgressed before he did, and he can learn lessons from them. Those apologies worked on us, because if you want to determine someone's sincerity, ask people who have never done anything wrong. Like me. And you.

Shawn
04-30-2010, 04:53 AM
He really owes us a major explanation. We are victims of the heightened expectation that we had of him, for no real reason at all, other than that he can throw a football really far, and if you want "one for the pinky toe," he might be your guy.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one but I don't think he owes us jack squat. We might want an explanation. We might desire an explanation but we are not owed one. He owes the police an explanation...and even that is debateable according to his lawyer. He owes the Steelers and the NFL commish an explanation. We are victims owed an explanation? Talk about drama.

BradshawsHairdresser
04-30-2010, 08:57 AM
He really owes us a major explanation. We are victims of the heightened expectation that we had of him, for no real reason at all, other than that he can throw a football really far, and if you want "one for the pinky toe," he might be your guy.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one but I don't think he owes us jack squat. We might want an explanation. We might desire an explanation but we are not owed one. He owes the police an explanation...and even that is debateable according to his lawyer. He owes the Steelers and the NFL commish an explanation. We are victims owed an explanation? Talk about drama.

I think you missed that the author had his tongue planted firmly in his cheek.

NorthCoast
05-01-2010, 09:00 AM
He really owes us a major explanation. We are victims of the heightened expectation that we had of him, for no real reason at all, other than that he can throw a football really far, and if you want "one for the pinky toe," he might be your guy.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one but I don't think he owes us jack squat. We might want an explanation. We might desire an explanation but we are not owed one. He owes the police an explanation...and even that is debateable according to his lawyer. He owes the Steelers and the NFL commish an explanation. We are victims owed an explanation? Talk about drama.

It's the same drivel the media gave on Tiger. Why the media thinks star athletes owe any explanations about their non-playing actions is beyond me. The only thing Roethlisberger owes us is his full commitment when the season starts (for him...6 games in).

ghettoscott
05-01-2010, 09:07 AM
He really owes us a major explanation. We are victims of the heightened expectation that we had of him, for no real reason at all, other than that he can throw a football really far, and if you want "one for the pinky toe," he might be your guy.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one but I don't think he owes us jack squat. We might want an explanation. We might desire an explanation but we are not owed one. He owes the police an explanation...and even that is debateable according to his lawyer. He owes the Steelers and the NFL commish an explanation. We are victims owed an explanation? Talk about drama.

It's the same drivel the media gave on Tiger. Why the media thinks star athletes owe any explanations about their non-playing actions is beyond me. The only thing Roethlisberger owes us is his full commitment when the season starts (for him...6 games in).

4 games in!!!! :Beer

BURGH86STEEL
05-01-2010, 09:56 AM
He really owes us a major explanation. We are victims of the heightened expectation that we had of him, for no real reason at all, other than that he can throw a football really far, and if you want "one for the pinky toe," he might be your guy.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one but I don't think he owes us jack squat. We might want an explanation. We might desire an explanation but we are not owed one. He owes the police an explanation...and even that is debateable according to his lawyer. He owes the Steelers and the NFL commish an explanation. We are victims owed an explanation? Talk about drama.

Like all players, I think he owes the fans. One reason is because he is a public figure. How much he & other players owe the fans is debatable. I think it is based on individual preference. Some people's expectations are reasonable and some are unreasonable.

Ben appears to be a good sport with some of his teammates and coaches. I don't believe it is to much to ask of any player to be a good sport off the field. I believe all people make mistakes. The key thing is to learn and grow from those mistakes. Let us hope that Ben can grow as a person.

hawaiiansteel
05-01-2010, 11:06 PM
Harris: Roethlisberger follows Woods' lead


By John Harris, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW




Ben Roethlisberger is taking a remedial course at the Tiger Woods School of Redemption.

Roethlisberger took baby steps Monday toward repairing his fractured public image and regaining the trust of the Steelers. It came in the form of a statement attributed to him in response to the conditional six-game suspension he received from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

Similar to the prepared statement he read to the local media two weeks ago, Roethlisberger didn't say anything revealing or unexpected. In fact, this time Roethlisberger's statement spoke for him.

Roethlisberger saw what being humble and taking responsibility for his actions did for Woods, the golf icon whose marital indiscretions made a mockery of a saintly public image that led to him becoming the richest athlete in the world. However, Roethlisberger chose not to imitate Woods' more direct approach.

Roethlisberger is the first test case of a prominent athlete atoning for bad behavior since Woods.

Clearly, Roethlisberger and his advisers -- and perhaps even the Steelers -- decided that the less of Roethlisberger right now, the better.

Like Woods, Roethlisberger attempted to present himself as sincerely as one possibly can via a statement. But the fact that Roethlisberger didn't read those words muffled the desired impact.

Roethlisberger got decent mileage out of yesterday's statement. Unlike Woods, he didn't apologize for any wrongdoing, saying only that he has "fallen short of the values instilled in me by my family."

It was the first time during his two statements that he referred to his family, displaying a more personal side of himself.

The first step toward redemption for Roethlisberger is having an open mind and admitting his mistakes. He attempted to do that yesterday -- sort of.

Of course, for obvious legal reasons, Roethlisberger can't disclose details of what did -- or didn't -- happen last month in Georgia.

But he can accept responsibility for making bad decisions that have affected not only himself but an entire franchise.

The big difference between Roethlisberger and Woods is that Woods is an independent contractor solely responsible for his livelihood.

As the highest-paid player in Steelers history as well as the starting quarterback -- the most visible position in football -- Roethlisberger's reckless behavior damaged the entire team.

What allowed Woods' professional and personal life to finally return to some degree of normalcy was when he agreed to receive questions from reporters prior to competing in the Masters.

Vulnerability is another important step toward redemption.

Woods made himself vulnerable and gained respect because he let his guard down. Even though he didn't answer every question to everyone's satisfaction -- while avoiding certain questions altogether -- he won some fans back due to the way he humbled himself in a time of crisis.

It eventually will be necessary for Roethlisberger to host a similar no-holds-barred news conference.

Americans are suckers for giving second chances. Steelers fans, no matter how angry and repulsed they may be about what transpired between Roethlisberger and a 20-year-old college student, are willing to forgive and eventually forget.

Because Roethlisberger won't be able to rejoin team activities until the opening of training camp in July at the earliest, he will have to prepare for the upcoming season alone. However, some Steelers players want to make Roethlisberger feel like he's part of the team during his ban.

Cornerback Ike Taylor extended an invitation to Roethlisberger to join him for workouts with speed and conditioning coach Tom Shaw at ESPN Wide World of Sports in Lake Buena Vista, Fla. Also training in Florida with Taylor will be linebacker James Farrior, cornerbacks William Gay, Bryant McFadden and Keenan Lewis, wide receiver Mike Wallace, first-round draft pick Maurkice Pouncey and ex-Steelers wide receiver Santonio Holmes.

In an interview last week with the Tribune-Review, former Steelers tackle Marvel Smith said coach Mike Tomlin created a rift between Roethlisberger and his teammates when he and other coaches failed to point out in team meetings Roethlisberger's mistakes during games.

Tomlin should insist that Roethlisberger join his teammates in Florida.

Roethlisberger should embrace the invite.

Not only would Roethlisberger get an opportunity to display some much-needed leadership skills while training at a world-class facility, he could also bond with teammates he wouldn't otherwise be allowed to train with during his ban.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 78273.html (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_678273.html)

BradshawsHairdresser
05-02-2010, 09:36 AM
In an interview last week with the Tribune-Review, former Steelers tackle Marvel Smith said coach Mike Tomlin created a rift between Roethlisberger and his teammates when he and other coaches failed to point out in team meetings Roethlisberger's mistakes during games.




If that's true, it sure lends credence to the notion that Ben, not Tomlin, was running the show.

Not good at all.

BURGH86STEEL
05-02-2010, 10:24 AM
In an interview last week with the Tribune-Review, former Steelers tackle Marvel Smith said coach Mike Tomlin created a rift between Roethlisberger and his teammates when he and other coaches failed to point out in team meetings Roethlisberger's mistakes during games.




If that's true, it sure lends credence to the notion that Ben, not Tomlin, was running the show.

Not good at all.

Certain players will get lead way in different situations. I don't think it is right that they excluded Ben from "the news." We all know that Ben made his share of mistakes. Maybe Ben does not handle constructive criticism well? Sounds to me that Ben may be a "problem child" on more the one level. Ultimately, it is probably one price to pay for having a franchise QB.

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 12:19 PM
Ben made it clear when Whiz was our OC that "I don't respond well when being yelled at". Why do you think he hated Cowher and Whiz? When we played the Cards in Tomlin/Whiz's 1st season, all of the Steelers surrounded Whiz and shook hands and talked to the former Steeler coach. All EXCEPT Ben. But his mistakes (all those frickin sacks) MUST be pointed out. He is too slow to process the information. WATCH how the sack problem disappears in his absence. It will return when he returns. And save the crap about "Ben holds onto the ball to make big plays". Ben holds onto the ball because he is confused, he rolls out to buy time. In the redzone he is at his worst.

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 12:20 PM
Ben made it clear when Whiz was our OC that "I don't respond well when being yelled at". Why do you think he hated Cowher and Whiz? When we played the Cards in Tomlin/Whiz's 1st season, all of the Steelers surrounded Whiz and shook hands and talked to the former Steeler coach. All EXCEPT Ben. But his mistakes (all those frickin sacks) MUST be pointed out. He is too slow to process the information. WATCH how the sack problem disappears in his absence. It will return when he returns. And save the crap about "Ben holds onto the ball to make big plays". Ben holds onto the ball because he is confused, he rolls out to buy time. In the redzone he is at his worst.

SS Laser
05-02-2010, 12:28 PM
Time to feed the trolls! :HeadBanger

At least your name fits you. weallhateyou would work also or mehateben sounds go also.

I will leave it for someone else to feed the troll some more and put holes all through your crap about confused Ben.

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 12:59 PM
Time to feed the trolls! :HeadBanger

At least your name fits you. weallhateyou would work also or mehateben sounds go also.

I will leave it for someone else to feed the troll some more and put holes all through your crap about confused Ben.

Another PITYFUL "fan" putting Ben over the team. Ben disgraced my team. This is an unforgivable act. Try to look at Bens stats VS good defenses. HEHATESCOMPETITION

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 01:07 PM
09


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense)

Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. TELLING. Ben produced 2 TD's

Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary (remember you HOMERS always cite Bens injury in 06 as an excuse so don't hate on me for doing the same thing). However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

#5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the LETHARGIC one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. The LETHARGIC one also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

#7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

Now contrast These stats to the TEN games vs. poor defenses. NOW do you see where Ben did his damage at? Excluding the Packer game of course. He played EXCELLENT that game!



08


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2008 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2008)

#2 Ravens (2)- Game 1 Ben was 14-24-191 1 TD 1 INT Sacked 3 Times. Benefited from ANOTHER TD from the defense (Woodley). Benefited from Tone taking a short pass and making it a big play/yac. Hines Also had a 49 yard catch and run, that bolstered Bens pedestrian stats. Having said that, they were still pedestrian despite that. ONE TD Produced by your ELITE qb. LOL

Game 2 vs. Ravens 22-40-246 1TD Sacked 3 Times. ELITE? Hardly. The defense held the Ravens to NINE points and all we could muster was 13. Last second pass to Tone for the TD was clutch but long overdue. The Ravens shouldn't have even been in this game. Ben also lost a fumble this game. ONE TD. ELITE?? LOL

#3 Eagles- The LETHARGIC one was 13-25-131 1 INT 2 lost fumbles and EIGHT SACKS LOL. Ben produced TWO fgs and gave them 2 more points with a BONEHEADED safety in the end zone. Slow to process the info (Did the same thing vs. the Browns in 09 by the goaline. Took a terrible sack). Leftwich had almost half Bens yardage in ONE drive. He burnt the blitz over and over. Made Jim Johnson stop blitzing. If Nate catches the TD Leftwich throws him that game would have been winnable. Despite the LETHARGIC ONE.

#4 Skins- Ben got hurt late 2nd qtr. So he only played one half. He benefited from a blocked punt. He still played poorly. He was 5- 17- 50 yards and 1 INT and was sacked 5 times.. Leftwich comes in and he goes 7-10-129 and 1 TD not sacked once. Not saying Byron is better. He can just read a defense, faster.

#5 Giants- 13-29-199 1 TD FOUR INTS and 1 lost fumble. Also sacked FIVE times. Ben played like crap in this game and we STILL should have won. We were leading until the Harrison safety. An example of how our STRONG Defense aids Ben.

#7 Titans- 25-39-329 2 TD's 2INT's 5 SACKS, 2 lost Fumbles (one on the Titans ONE). Again, our defense put us in position to win this game but LETHARGIC one made it impossible to do so. The Griffin pick six was the nail in the coffin. UGH

#8 Cowboys- Ben 17-33-204 1TD, 5 sacks and 1 lost fumble. Ben could only produce two fgs. It was the DEFENSE on the int by Ike that set up Heaths td from ben. Townsends pick 6 won the game. Ben again putrid vs. a good defense.

#10 Pats 17-33-179 2TDS 1 INT 1 lost fumble. With no Brady the Pats were no match for our team. We controlled the ball and ran all over them. Kinda like the 04 game with Plax (reg season).Mewelde and Willie were the reasons for this win. Ben, AGAIN, played mediocre vs. a good D. SEE A PATTERN?

#11 Colts- Ben was 29-41-3INTS and 2 sacks. Worth noting My little Chimp-Peyton was 21-40-240 and 3 TD's. VS THE #1 DEFENSE. Eat a bananna LOL

Vs #2 Ravens AFCCG 16-33-255-1TD, 1 fumble lost and 4 sacks. We won this game based on the int by Polamalu and the great YAC by Tone.

07


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2007 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2007)

#4 Pats- 19-32-187- 1 TD, 3 sacks and 1 fumble lost (Hey Chimp named Strictly Biz- Brady was 32-46-399- 4TD's VS THE # 1 D-That's elite chimp LOL)

#6 Ravens (2) Game 1 Ben- 13-16-209 5 TD's. Monday Night game in those UGLY throwbacks. It was an epic game by Ben. Again, there is always an exception to every rule. Not a save my *ss statement. A statement of fact. Sorry chimp LOL

Ravens Game 2- Ben sat out-resting for playoffs.

#12 Jags- 15-32-142- 3 TD's and 5 sacks. A classic case of too little too late as the LETHARGIC one only generates SEVEN points through 3 qtrs. Plays up to his potential in the 4th. Too late.

#12 Jags in playoffs-The LETHARGIC one does the same thing he did in the Regular season vs. this D. Plays horrible early and comes on strong late to make the HOMERS forget about the pick 6 he threw to Mathis. Stats Ben- 29-42-337 2 TD's, 3 INT's AND SIX sacks. I remember after this game the Steeler Nation attacked Tomlin for going for two points after the holding call. That call didn't lose the game. Ben's horrible 1st half did. You can NEVER get points back. But as usual, Ben can do no wrong. LOL

You NOW know why Ben had such a good statistical season in 07. NO GOOD DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. Contrast that with 08. SEE THE DIFFERENCE? LOL

06


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2006 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2006)

#1 Ravens Game 1 Ben 21-41-214 and 2 INT's, NINE SACKS and one fumble lost for a TD. A. Thomas. The Ravens shut us out. The LETHARGIC one AGAIN, struggles against a top D.

#1 Ravens Game 2 Ben 15-31-156 1TD and 2INT's, 5 SACKS. So in TWO games vs. the #1 D he had ONE TD and FOUR INTS. I KNOW I KNOW he was hurt. LOL

#2 Jags-17-32-141 0 TD's and 2 INT'S. 2 Sack. Ben continued his trend of hitting his favorite receiver (Rashean Mathis) who picked him twice- AGAIN. LETHARGIC Ben produced ZERO points in this game. I know I know "HE WAS HURT HE WAS HURT"

Lol

#3 Raiders Ben was 25-37-301 1TD and FOUR ints. And 5 sacks. Including TWO pick six's. Didn't I say Ben has HABITUALLY sucked in the redzone his WHOLE career? FACT. I know I know. HE WAS ALMOST KILLED IN JUNE. LOL. Worth Noting- the opposing qb (Walter) was 5-14-51 yards and one int. AND HE WON. I bet the DEFENSE was ticked off at the LETHARGIC ONE LOL. Elite Ben managed THIRTEEN points.

#7 Carolina Ben was 10-17-125 1 TD and 3 sacks.

#10 Chargers 20-31-220 2 INTS and 5 Sacks. You guys this is too easy. You CANT use the excuse that "he was hurt". or it was Arians, or the line. I am proving that Ben is what I say he is. A good qb that plays with a strong defense. He puts up ok numbers vs. Good defenses or he sucks royally vs. them. This with Arians, Whiz, Good Line, Average Line, "Bad Line". LOL.



05


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2005 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2005)

#2 Bears 13-20-173 1TD zero sacks.

#5 Ravens Game 1 18-30-177 2TD's, 1 INT.2 sacks. I'm waiting for this guy to LIGHT UP AN ELITE D. YAWN

#5 Ravens Game 2 (Didn't play)

#11 Colts 17-26-133 1 TD 2INTS, 3 sacks.

#11 Colts playoffs 14-24-197 2TD's, 1 INT,2 sacks. Ben started off fast. I was loving this game. Then in the 2nd half the LETHARGIC one surfaced. Managed 7 WHOLE points the 2nd half. ENTER EXCUSES (Cowher, Whiz) LOL

04


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2004 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004)

#3 Skins Super Ben was 9-20-131 NO TD's O INTS. 4 Sacks

#6 Ravens. The 1st Raven game was when Ben got his chance after Maddox got hurt. These stats are from game 2 vs. the Ravens. 14-19-221 2 TD's 1 INT. O Sacks

#7 Jets- 9-19-144 0 TD's 2INT's.

#9 Pats (reg season) 18-24-196 2 TD's 0 sacks. I remember this game! Nice Long ball to Plax. Ben played well. Int by Townsend- to the house. We controlled the ball for most of the game. If I recall right it was like 40 minutes.

#9 Pats (AFCCG) 14-24-226 2 TD's 3 INT's 1 Sack. Ben was a rookie and he played like it. UGH. Call it cheating, call it whatever but Ben sucked in this game like MOST vs. elite defenses.



There you have it. As I have PROVED. Ben Roethlisberger makes a living feasting off of bad defenses. Put him up against an elite one and he is not so elite as I have ALWAYS said. He wins BECAUSE OF HIS DEFENSE and because he is on the Steelers. Do explain all of this HARCORE proof as to his pedestrian or pathetic stats vs. a good defense. You see I didn't just list random numbers, I listed teams and years so you could CALL MY BLUFF. I dont just take ONE SEASON (BENS STATISTICAL BEST). I take his whole career and BURY YOU WITH THE TRUTH.

aggiebones
05-02-2010, 01:49 PM
A long lasting sad press conference only stands to promote guilt and leave a lasting image for all to bring up repeatedly. I'm fine with any crappy sorry note....as long as he progresses in his rehab against doing anything similar. A press conference is for lamea$$e$. Just get on with it beootch.

BURGH86STEEL
05-02-2010, 02:09 PM
Ben made it clear when Whiz was our OC that "I don't respond well when being yelled at". Why do you think he hated Cowher and Whiz? When we played the Cards in Tomlin/Whiz's 1st season, all of the Steelers surrounded Whiz and shook hands and talked to the former Steeler coach. All EXCEPT Ben. But his mistakes (all those frickin sacks) MUST be pointed out. He is too slow to process the information. WATCH how the sack problem disappears in his absence. It will return when he returns. And save the crap about "Ben holds onto the ball to make big plays". Ben holds onto the ball because he is confused, he rolls out to buy time. In the redzone he is at his worst.

I am not sure that he hated Cowher. I am not sure the reason Ben and Whiz did not get a long.

There were times that Ben held the ball. There were times when he did not. I don't believe his issue is solely because of his inability to process information. I think it might be because he does not put enough work in off the field on a consistent basis. It might be possible that there were times that he took bad teams lightly. Whatever the case, I hope he focuses more on his football career then his club life career. I think he can become a better player if he applies himself and focuses more on football.

I agree that there were many times that Ben holds the ball to long. The sack numbers may drop for other reasons. They might run the ball more without Ben. The Oline being together another year will also help. Time will tell.

skyhawk
05-02-2010, 02:10 PM
09


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense)

Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. TELLING. Ben produced 2 TD's

Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary (remember you HOMERS always cite Bens injury in 06 as an excuse so don't hate on me for doing the same thing). However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

#5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the LETHARGIC one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. The LETHARGIC one also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

#7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

Now contrast These stats to the TEN games vs. poor defenses. NOW do you see where Ben did his damage at? Excluding the Packer game of course. He played EXCELLENT that game!



08


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2008 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2008)

#2 Ravens (2)- Game 1 Ben was 14-24-191 1 TD 1 INT Sacked 3 Times. Benefited from ANOTHER TD from the defense (Woodley). Benefited from Tone taking a short pass and making it a big play/yac. Hines Also had a 49 yard catch and run, that bolstered Bens pedestrian stats. Having said that, they were still pedestrian despite that. ONE TD Produced by your ELITE qb. LOL

Game 2 vs. Ravens 22-40-246 1TD Sacked 3 Times. ELITE? Hardly. The defense held the Ravens to NINE points and all we could muster was 13. Last second pass to Tone for the TD was clutch but long overdue. The Ravens shouldn't have even been in this game. Ben also lost a fumble this game. ONE TD. ELITE?? LOL

#3 Eagles- The LETHARGIC one was 13-25-131 1 INT 2 lost fumbles and EIGHT SACKS LOL. Ben produced TWO fgs and gave them 2 more points with a BONEHEADED safety in the end zone. Slow to process the info (Did the same thing vs. the Browns in 09 by the goaline. Took a terrible sack). Leftwich had almost half Bens yardage in ONE drive. He burnt the blitz over and over. Made Jim Johnson stop blitzing. If Nate catches the TD Leftwich throws him that game would have been winnable. Despite the LETHARGIC ONE.

#4 Skins- Ben got hurt late 2nd qtr. So he only played one half. He benefited from a blocked punt. He still played poorly. He was 5- 17- 50 yards and 1 INT and was sacked 5 times.. Leftwich comes in and he goes 7-10-129 and 1 TD not sacked once. Not saying Byron is better. He can just read a defense, faster.

#5 Giants- 13-29-199 1 TD FOUR INTS and 1 lost fumble. Also sacked FIVE times. Ben played like crap in this game and we STILL should have won. We were leading until the Harrison safety. An example of how our STRONG Defense aids Ben.

#7 Titans- 25-39-329 2 TD's 2INT's 5 SACKS, 2 lost Fumbles (one on the Titans ONE). Again, our defense put us in position to win this game but LETHARGIC one made it impossible to do so. The Griffin pick six was the nail in the coffin. UGH

#8 Cowboys- Ben 17-33-204 1TD, 5 sacks and 1 lost fumble. Ben could only produce two fgs. It was the DEFENSE on the int by Ike that set up Heaths td from ben. Townsends pick 6 won the game. Ben again putrid vs. a good defense.

#10 Pats 17-33-179 2TDS 1 INT 1 lost fumble. With no Brady the Pats were no match for our team. We controlled the ball and ran all over them. Kinda like the 04 game with Plax (reg season).Mewelde and Willie were the reasons for this win. Ben, AGAIN, played mediocre vs. a good D. SEE A PATTERN?

#11 Colts- Ben was 29-41-3INTS and 2 sacks. Worth noting My little Chimp-Peyton was 21-40-240 and 3 TD's. VS THE #1 DEFENSE. Eat a bananna LOL

Vs #2 Ravens AFCCG 16-33-255-1TD, 1 fumble lost and 4 sacks. We won this game based on the int by Polamalu and the great YAC by Tone.

07


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2007 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2007)

#4 Pats- 19-32-187- 1 TD, 3 sacks and 1 fumble lost (Hey Chimp named Strictly Biz- Brady was 32-46-399- 4TD's VS THE # 1 D-That's elite chimp LOL)

#6 Ravens (2) Game 1 Ben- 13-16-209 5 TD's. Monday Night game in those UGLY throwbacks. It was an epic game by Ben. Again, there is always an exception to every rule. Not a save my *ss statement. A statement of fact. Sorry chimp LOL

Ravens Game 2- Ben sat out-resting for playoffs.

#12 Jags- 15-32-142- 3 TD's and 5 sacks. A classic case of too little too late as the LETHARGIC one only generates SEVEN points through 3 qtrs. Plays up to his potential in the 4th. Too late.

#12 Jags in playoffs-The LETHARGIC one does the same thing he did in the Regular season vs. this D. Plays horrible early and comes on strong late to make the HOMERS forget about the pick 6 he threw to Mathis. Stats Ben- 29-42-337 2 TD's, 3 INT's AND SIX sacks. I remember after this game the Steeler Nation attacked Tomlin for going for two points after the holding call. That call didn't lose the game. Ben's horrible 1st half did. You can NEVER get points back. But as usual, Ben can do no wrong. LOL

You NOW know why Ben had such a good statistical season in 07. NO GOOD DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. Contrast that with 08. SEE THE DIFFERENCE? LOL

06


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2006 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2006)

#1 Ravens Game 1 Ben 21-41-214 and 2 INT's, NINE SACKS and one fumble lost for a TD. A. Thomas. The Ravens shut us out. The LETHARGIC one AGAIN, struggles against a top D.

#1 Ravens Game 2 Ben 15-31-156 1TD and 2INT's, 5 SACKS. So in TWO games vs. the #1 D he had ONE TD and FOUR INTS. I KNOW I KNOW he was hurt. LOL

#2 Jags-17-32-141 0 TD's and 2 INT'S. 2 Sack. Ben continued his trend of hitting his favorite receiver (Rashean Mathis) who picked him twice- AGAIN. LETHARGIC Ben produced ZERO points in this game. I know I know "HE WAS HURT HE WAS HURT"

Lol

#3 Raiders Ben was 25-37-301 1TD and FOUR ints. And 5 sacks. Including TWO pick six's. Didn't I say Ben has HABITUALLY sucked in the redzone his WHOLE career? FACT. I know I know. HE WAS ALMOST KILLED IN JUNE. LOL. Worth Noting- the opposing qb (Walter) was 5-14-51 yards and one int. AND HE WON. I bet the DEFENSE was ticked off at the LETHARGIC ONE LOL. Elite Ben managed THIRTEEN points.

#7 Carolina Ben was 10-17-125 1 TD and 3 sacks.

#10 Chargers 20-31-220 2 INTS and 5 Sacks. You guys this is too easy. You CANT use the excuse that "he was hurt". or it was Arians, or the line. I am proving that Ben is what I say he is. A good qb that plays with a strong defense. He puts up ok numbers vs. Good defenses or he sucks royally vs. them. This with Arians, Whiz, Good Line, Average Line, "Bad Line". LOL.



05


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2005 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2005)

#2 Bears 13-20-173 1TD zero sacks.

#5 Ravens Game 1 18-30-177 2TD's, 1 INT.2 sacks. I'm waiting for this guy to LIGHT UP AN ELITE D. YAWN

#5 Ravens Game 2 (Didn't play)

#11 Colts 17-26-133 1 TD 2INTS, 3 sacks.

#11 Colts playoffs 14-24-197 2TD's, 1 INT,2 sacks. Ben started off fast. I was loving this game. Then in the 2nd half the LETHARGIC one surfaced. Managed 7 WHOLE points the 2nd half. ENTER EXCUSES (Cowher, Whiz) LOL

04


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2004 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004)

#3 Skins Super Ben was 9-20-131 NO TD's O INTS. 4 Sacks

#6 Ravens. The 1st Raven game was when Ben got his chance after Maddox got hurt. These stats are from game 2 vs. the Ravens. 14-19-221 2 TD's 1 INT. O Sacks

#7 Jets- 9-19-144 0 TD's 2INT's.

#9 Pats (reg season) 18-24-196 2 TD's 0 sacks. I remember this game! Nice Long ball to Plax. Ben played well. Int by Townsend- to the house. We controlled the ball for most of the game. If I recall right it was like 40 minutes.

#9 Pats (AFCCG) 14-24-226 2 TD's 3 INT's 1 Sack. Ben was a rookie and he played like it. UGH. Call it cheating, call it whatever but Ben sucked in this game like MOST vs. elite defenses.



There you have it. As I have PROVED. Ben Roethlisberger makes a living feasting off of bad defenses. Put him up against an elite one and he is not so elite as I have ALWAYS said. He wins BECAUSE OF HIS DEFENSE and because he is on the Steelers. Do explain all of this HARCORE proof as to his pedestrian or pathetic stats vs. a good defense. You see I didn't just list random numbers, I listed teams and years so you could CALL MY BLUFF. I dont just take ONE SEASON (BENS STATISTICAL BEST). I take his whole career and BURY YOU WITH THE TRUTH.


Damn. Ben sucks. :roll: You can do the above with any QB in the NFL though. Ben's not the greatest of all time, but I will take him over any other Steeler QB in the last 20 years.

I give you credit for writing all that up, though. That's a lot of work.

feltdizz
05-02-2010, 05:06 PM
Ben takes sacks, we all know this... well, most of us know this and a few think Ben has a terrible OL.

Ben has the benefit of a great D.. not his fault at all.
Ben can look down right horrible, make you say WTF throw the ball" ....but he turns it on when it's grind time.

I pick apart Ben's game a lot because he is the Quarterback but others think it's a no no...

He is still one of the best in the business.... but I can see how some fans or other teams fans can say we win in spite of Ben until the 4th quarter.

I'm curious to see how we do the first 4 games with Lefty in terms of efficiency and sacks... I'm not talking QB controversy though.. it's Ben's team!!!

However I want to see how BA calls the game and how Lefty responds. Lefty was terrible last year, down right pathetic.... but in our offense the guy looked comfortable in limited action. I also think if Lefty has success it will push Ben even more to come out and waste no time getting the job done..

If we go 3-1 and Ben struggles against the Saints in his first game back and takes some of those "hold the ball sack" will the crowd get aggy? Is it even a home game?

SS Laser
05-02-2010, 06:46 PM
Time to feed the trolls! :HeadBanger

At least your name fits you. weallhateyou would work also or mehateben sounds go also.

I will leave it for someone else to feed the troll some more and put holes all through your crap about confused Ben.

Another PITYFUL "fan" putting Ben over the team. Ben disgraced my team. This is an unforgivable act. Try to look at Bens stats VS good defenses. HEHATESCOMPETITION

How am I putting Ben over the team? Ben is part of the team.
Did not know you owned the steelers. Ben disgraced your team? Ok what about all the rest of the "thugs"?? So I see no one deserves a 2nd chance? Yea you will say 3 or 4th chance. Well I hope the man turns his life around. Don't care if he gets another superbowl. We have 2 thanks to Bens help.
I do not agree with what Ben has done. Agree with a suspension. Should have been 2 games not 4/6. You are just so far off the edge to hate the man for partying? He did no crime. Whatever got to watch the baby.

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 08:44 PM
Ben made it clear when Whiz was our OC that "I don't respond well when being yelled at". Why do you think he hated Cowher and Whiz? When we played the Cards in Tomlin/Whiz's 1st season, all of the Steelers surrounded Whiz and shook hands and talked to the former Steeler coach. All EXCEPT Ben. But his mistakes (all those frickin sacks) MUST be pointed out. He is too slow to process the information. WATCH how the sack problem disappears in his absence. It will return when he returns. And save the crap about "Ben holds onto the ball to make big plays". Ben holds onto the ball because he is confused, he rolls out to buy time. In the redzone he is at his worst.

I am not sure that he hated Cowher. I am not sure the reason Ben and Whiz did not get a long.

There were times that Ben held the ball. There were times when he did not. I don't believe his issue is solely because of his inability to process information. I think it might be because he does not put enough work in off the field on a consistent basis. It might be possible that there were times that he took bad teams lightly. Whatever the case, I hope he focuses more on his football career then his club life career. I think he can become a better player if he applies himself and focuses more on football.

I agree that there were many times that Ben holds the ball to long. The sack numbers may drop for other reasons. They might run the ball more without Ben. The Oline being together another year will also help. Time will tell.


They ren the ball alot when Ben was playing qb like in 05 and 06 and 07 and guess what? The high sack totals were still there. When Ben doesnt play, the sacks evaporate. Do the research, it is a fact. When Batch, Leftwich or Dixon play the sacks ARE NOT an issue. Add Ben and they are. Make no mistake about it. It's Ben.

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 08:54 PM
09


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense)

Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. TELLING. Ben produced 2 TD's

Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary (remember you HOMERS always cite Bens injury in 06 as an excuse so don't hate on me for doing the same thing). However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

#5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the LETHARGIC one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. The LETHARGIC one also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

#7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

Now contrast These stats to the TEN games vs. poor defenses. NOW do you see where Ben did his damage at? Excluding the Packer game of course. He played EXCELLENT that game!



08


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2008 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2008)

#2 Ravens (2)- Game 1 Ben was 14-24-191 1 TD 1 INT Sacked 3 Times. Benefited from ANOTHER TD from the defense (Woodley). Benefited from Tone taking a short pass and making it a big play/yac. Hines Also had a 49 yard catch and run, that bolstered Bens pedestrian stats. Having said that, they were still pedestrian despite that. ONE TD Produced by your ELITE qb. LOL

Game 2 vs. Ravens 22-40-246 1TD Sacked 3 Times. ELITE? Hardly. The defense held the Ravens to NINE points and all we could muster was 13. Last second pass to Tone for the TD was clutch but long overdue. The Ravens shouldn't have even been in this game. Ben also lost a fumble this game. ONE TD. ELITE?? LOL

#3 Eagles- The LETHARGIC one was 13-25-131 1 INT 2 lost fumbles and EIGHT SACKS LOL. Ben produced TWO fgs and gave them 2 more points with a BONEHEADED safety in the end zone. Slow to process the info (Did the same thing vs. the Browns in 09 by the goaline. Took a terrible sack). Leftwich had almost half Bens yardage in ONE drive. He burnt the blitz over and over. Made Jim Johnson stop blitzing. If Nate catches the TD Leftwich throws him that game would have been winnable. Despite the LETHARGIC ONE.

#4 Skins- Ben got hurt late 2nd qtr. So he only played one half. He benefited from a blocked punt. He still played poorly. He was 5- 17- 50 yards and 1 INT and was sacked 5 times.. Leftwich comes in and he goes 7-10-129 and 1 TD not sacked once. Not saying Byron is better. He can just read a defense, faster.

#5 Giants- 13-29-199 1 TD FOUR INTS and 1 lost fumble. Also sacked FIVE times. Ben played like crap in this game and we STILL should have won. We were leading until the Harrison safety. An example of how our STRONG Defense aids Ben.

#7 Titans- 25-39-329 2 TD's 2INT's 5 SACKS, 2 lost Fumbles (one on the Titans ONE). Again, our defense put us in position to win this game but LETHARGIC one made it impossible to do so. The Griffin pick six was the nail in the coffin. UGH

#8 Cowboys- Ben 17-33-204 1TD, 5 sacks and 1 lost fumble. Ben could only produce two fgs. It was the DEFENSE on the int by Ike that set up Heaths td from ben. Townsends pick 6 won the game. Ben again putrid vs. a good defense.

#10 Pats 17-33-179 2TDS 1 INT 1 lost fumble. With no Brady the Pats were no match for our team. We controlled the ball and ran all over them. Kinda like the 04 game with Plax (reg season).Mewelde and Willie were the reasons for this win. Ben, AGAIN, played mediocre vs. a good D. SEE A PATTERN?

#11 Colts- Ben was 29-41-3INTS and 2 sacks. Worth noting My little Chimp-Peyton was 21-40-240 and 3 TD's. VS THE #1 DEFENSE. Eat a bananna LOL

Vs #2 Ravens AFCCG 16-33-255-1TD, 1 fumble lost and 4 sacks. We won this game based on the int by Polamalu and the great YAC by Tone.

07


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2007 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2007)

#4 Pats- 19-32-187- 1 TD, 3 sacks and 1 fumble lost (Hey Chimp named Strictly Biz- Brady was 32-46-399- 4TD's VS THE # 1 D-That's elite chimp LOL)

#6 Ravens (2) Game 1 Ben- 13-16-209 5 TD's. Monday Night game in those UGLY throwbacks. It was an epic game by Ben. Again, there is always an exception to every rule. Not a save my *ss statement. A statement of fact. Sorry chimp LOL

Ravens Game 2- Ben sat out-resting for playoffs.

#12 Jags- 15-32-142- 3 TD's and 5 sacks. A classic case of too little too late as the LETHARGIC one only generates SEVEN points through 3 qtrs. Plays up to his potential in the 4th. Too late.

#12 Jags in playoffs-The LETHARGIC one does the same thing he did in the Regular season vs. this D. Plays horrible early and comes on strong late to make the HOMERS forget about the pick 6 he threw to Mathis. Stats Ben- 29-42-337 2 TD's, 3 INT's AND SIX sacks. I remember after this game the Steeler Nation attacked Tomlin for going for two points after the holding call. That call didn't lose the game. Ben's horrible 1st half did. You can NEVER get points back. But as usual, Ben can do no wrong. LOL

You NOW know why Ben had such a good statistical season in 07. NO GOOD DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. Contrast that with 08. SEE THE DIFFERENCE? LOL

06


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2006 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2006)

#1 Ravens Game 1 Ben 21-41-214 and 2 INT's, NINE SACKS and one fumble lost for a TD. A. Thomas. The Ravens shut us out. The LETHARGIC one AGAIN, struggles against a top D.

#1 Ravens Game 2 Ben 15-31-156 1TD and 2INT's, 5 SACKS. So in TWO games vs. the #1 D he had ONE TD and FOUR INTS. I KNOW I KNOW he was hurt. LOL

#2 Jags-17-32-141 0 TD's and 2 INT'S. 2 Sack. Ben continued his trend of hitting his favorite receiver (Rashean Mathis) who picked him twice- AGAIN. LETHARGIC Ben produced ZERO points in this game. I know I know "HE WAS HURT HE WAS HURT"

Lol

#3 Raiders Ben was 25-37-301 1TD and FOUR ints. And 5 sacks. Including TWO pick six's. Didn't I say Ben has HABITUALLY sucked in the redzone his WHOLE career? FACT. I know I know. HE WAS ALMOST KILLED IN JUNE. LOL. Worth Noting- the opposing qb (Walter) was 5-14-51 yards and one int. AND HE WON. I bet the DEFENSE was ticked off at the LETHARGIC ONE LOL. Elite Ben managed THIRTEEN points.

#7 Carolina Ben was 10-17-125 1 TD and 3 sacks.

#10 Chargers 20-31-220 2 INTS and 5 Sacks. You guys this is too easy. You CANT use the excuse that "he was hurt". or it was Arians, or the line. I am proving that Ben is what I say he is. A good qb that plays with a strong defense. He puts up ok numbers vs. Good defenses or he sucks royally vs. them. This with Arians, Whiz, Good Line, Average Line, "Bad Line". LOL.



05


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2005 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2005)

#2 Bears 13-20-173 1TD zero sacks.

#5 Ravens Game 1 18-30-177 2TD's, 1 INT.2 sacks. I'm waiting for this guy to LIGHT UP AN ELITE D. YAWN

#5 Ravens Game 2 (Didn't play)

#11 Colts 17-26-133 1 TD 2INTS, 3 sacks.

#11 Colts playoffs 14-24-197 2TD's, 1 INT,2 sacks. Ben started off fast. I was loving this game. Then in the 2nd half the LETHARGIC one surfaced. Managed 7 WHOLE points the 2nd half. ENTER EXCUSES (Cowher, Whiz) LOL

04


http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... /year/2004 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/year/2004)

#3 Skins Super Ben was 9-20-131 NO TD's O INTS. 4 Sacks

#6 Ravens. The 1st Raven game was when Ben got his chance after Maddox got hurt. These stats are from game 2 vs. the Ravens. 14-19-221 2 TD's 1 INT. O Sacks

#7 Jets- 9-19-144 0 TD's 2INT's.

#9 Pats (reg season) 18-24-196 2 TD's 0 sacks. I remember this game! Nice Long ball to Plax. Ben played well. Int by Townsend- to the house. We controlled the ball for most of the game. If I recall right it was like 40 minutes.

#9 Pats (AFCCG) 14-24-226 2 TD's 3 INT's 1 Sack. Ben was a rookie and he played like it. UGH. Call it cheating, call it whatever but Ben sucked in this game like MOST vs. elite defenses.



There you have it. As I have PROVED. Ben Roethlisberger makes a living feasting off of bad defenses. Put him up against an elite one and he is not so elite as I have ALWAYS said. He wins BECAUSE OF HIS DEFENSE and because he is on the Steelers. Do explain all of this HARCORE proof as to his pedestrian or pathetic stats vs. a good defense. You see I didn't just list random numbers, I listed teams and years so you could CALL MY BLUFF. I dont just take ONE SEASON (BENS STATISTICAL BEST). I take his whole career and BURY YOU WITH THE TRUTH.


Damn. Ben sucks. :roll: You can do the above with any QB in the NFL though. Ben's not the greatest of all time, but I will take him over any other Steeler QB in the last 20 years.

I give you credit for writing all that up, though. That's a lot of work.

Hold on, I have NEVER Said that "Ben sucks". He doesn't. Ben is a good qb. He is not this great qb who steeler fans THINK is the primary reason that we are successful. WATCH how well we do without Ben. The STEELERS are the reason we are good. It's a great assortment of talent in all the right positions. I believe we go undefeated (1 loss at the most) when Ben is gone. Will that be due to Leftwich/Dixon/Batch's greatness? NO! It will be due to the teams greatness. All the STEELERS need is a qb to execute and not turn the ball over and we beat most teams by 2 Tds. Managemennt has done that good of a job of compiling talent on our team. Ben makes it harder to win (notice all the close games?) Because of his shortcomings as a qb. Bad pre snap reads, slow to process the information, taking too many sacks that as a result puts us in long 3rd down situations. I agree with the poster above. ALOT of Ben's problems come from not taking his job seriously enough. He is a slacker. Ben plays when he WANTS to. Thats why he has so many come from behind wins. With our defense, WHO needs to come back? Did Bradshaw have to come from behind when he had a dominant Defense? NO! When Ben plays up to his potential we are unbeatable. See the Packer game last season, The Texan game of 08, The Jaguar game of 08. The last drive in SB 43. Not expecting Ben to be perfect BUT when he plays up to his ability then Manning, Brady nor Brees can sniff his jock.

HeHateMe
05-02-2010, 09:02 PM
Ben takes sacks, we all know this... well, most of us know this and a few think Ben has a terrible OL.

Ben has the benefit of a great D.. not his fault at all.
Ben can look down right horrible, make you say WTF throw the ball" ....but he turns it on when it's grind time.

I pick apart Ben's game a lot because he is the Quarterback but others think it's a no no...

He is still one of the best in the business.... but I can see how some fans or other teams fans can say we win in spite of Ben until the 4th quarter.

I'm curious to see how we do the first 4 games with Lefty in terms of efficiency and sacks... I'm not talking QB controversy though.. it's Ben's team!!!

However I want to see how BA calls the game and how Lefty responds. Lefty was terrible last year, down right pathetic.... but in our offense the guy looked comfortable in limited action. I also think if Lefty has success it will push Ben even more to come out and waste no time getting the job done..

If we go 3-1 and Ben struggles against the Saints in his first game back and takes some of those "hold the ball sack" will the crowd get aggy? Is it even a home game?

I agree with this post. Leftwich looked HORRIBLE on the bucs last season but looked stellar when he played for us in 08. This makes my point. IT'S THE TEAM! Put Ben on the bucs and he will look like cras as well. Bens success is largely in part to HIS TEAM. Steve Young sucked on the bucs as well. Put him on a good team and he took off. Leftwich played in 2 of the SAME games as Ben did in 08 (Browns/Skins) he outplayed Ben in both of those games. Why? Because he made better pre snap reads, audibled and got the ball out quickly. These are areas that he is better than Ben. Ben is better at intangibles, desire and toughness. The qb position is all about "Understanding". When Leftwich has success WATCH how that success will be attributed to Arians play calling, the running game and how little will be attributed to how well THIS qb understands what he is seeing out there. It looks like a different offense with Leftwich running it. There is a reason behind that. Is he better than Ben? NO. Just smarter and more savvy.

grotonsteel
05-03-2010, 02:51 AM
Ben takes sacks, we all know this... well, most of us know this and a few think Ben has a terrible OL.

Ben has the benefit of a great D.. not his fault at all.
Ben can look down right horrible, make you say WTF throw the ball" ....but he turns it on when it's grind time.

I pick apart Ben's game a lot because he is the Quarterback but others think it's a no no...

He is still one of the best in the business.... but I can see how some fans or other teams fans can say we win in spite of Ben until the 4th quarter.

I'm curious to see how we do the first 4 games with Lefty in terms of efficiency and sacks... I'm not talking QB controversy though.. it's Ben's team!!!

However I want to see how BA calls the game and how Lefty responds. Lefty was terrible last year, down right pathetic.... but in our offense the guy looked comfortable in limited action. I also think if Lefty has success it will push Ben even more to come out and waste no time getting the job done..

If we go 3-1 and Ben struggles against the Saints in his first game back and takes some of those "hold the ball sack" will the crowd get aggy? Is it even a home game?

I agree with this post. Leftwich looked HORRIBLE on the bucs last season but looked stellar when he played for us in 08. This makes my point. IT'S THE TEAM! Put Ben on the bucs and he will look like cras as well. Bens success is largely in part to HIS TEAM. Steve Young sucked on the bucs as well. Put him on a good team and he took off. Leftwich played in 2 of the SAME games as Ben did in 08 (Browns/Skins) he outplayed Ben in both of those games. Why? Because he made better pre snap reads, audibled and got the ball out quickly. These are areas that he is better than Ben. Ben is better at intangibles, desire and toughness. The qb position is all about "Understanding". When Leftwich has success WATCH how that success will be attributed to Arians play calling, the running game and how little will be attributed to how well THIS qb understands what he is seeing out there. It looks like a different offense with Leftwich running it. There is a reason behind that. Is he better than Ben? NO. Just smarter and more savvy.


Leftwich hardly played 2 games for Steelers and you think he is better than Big Ben??? :roll: :lol:

LEFTWICH THROWS THE BALL EARLY????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look at Leftwich mechanism while throwing the ball. No wonder he got kicked out of Jags and Bucs team.

HeHateMe
05-03-2010, 04:24 AM
Ben takes sacks, we all know this... well, most of us know this and a few think Ben has a terrible OL.

Ben has the benefit of a great D.. not his fault at all.
Ben can look down right horrible, make you say WTF throw the ball" ....but he turns it on when it's grind time.

I pick apart Ben's game a lot because he is the Quarterback but others think it's a no no...

He is still one of the best in the business.... but I can see how some fans or other teams fans can say we win in spite of Ben until the 4th quarter.

I'm curious to see how we do the first 4 games with Lefty in terms of efficiency and sacks... I'm not talking QB controversy though.. it's Ben's team!!!

However I want to see how BA calls the game and how Lefty responds. Lefty was terrible last year, down right pathetic.... but in our offense the guy looked comfortable in limited action. I also think if Lefty has success it will push Ben even more to come out and waste no time getting the job done..

If we go 3-1 and Ben struggles against the Saints in his first game back and takes some of those "hold the ball sack" will the crowd get aggy? Is it even a home game?

I agree with this post. Leftwich looked HORRIBLE on the bucs last season but looked stellar when he played for us in 08. This makes my point. IT'S THE TEAM! Put Ben on the bucs and he will look like cras as well. Bens success is largely in part to HIS TEAM. Steve Young sucked on the bucs as well. Put him on a good team and he took off. Leftwich played in 2 of the SAME games as Ben did in 08 (Browns/Skins) he outplayed Ben in both of those games. Why? Because he made better pre snap reads, audibled and got the ball out quickly. These are areas that he is better than Ben. Ben is better at intangibles, desire and toughness. The qb position is all about "Understanding". When Leftwich has success WATCH how that success will be attributed to Arians play calling, the running game and how little will be attributed to how well THIS qb understands what he is seeing out there. It looks like a different offense with Leftwich running it. There is a reason behind that. Is he better than Ben? NO. Just smarter and more savvy.


Leftwich hardly played 2 games for Steelers and you think he is better than Big Ben??? :roll: :lol:

LEFTWICH THROWS THE BALL EARLY????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look at Leftwich mechanism while throwing the ball. No wonder he got kicked out of Jags and Bucs team.

Are you insecure? Does Leftwich make you uneasy? He must. Because I certainly NEVER said he was better than Ben. If I did then please SHOW ME. I do know he played in the Eagles game, Browns and Skins games in 08. Ben played in those SAME games and please tell us all WHO played the best.
In regard to the Jags and Bucs. Put Ben on those teams and he wouldnt have success either. Steve Young was a Hall of Famer WHEN He left the bucs. A little perspective.

grotonsteel
05-03-2010, 12:57 PM
Ben takes sacks, we all know this... well, most of us know this and a few think Ben has a terrible OL.

Ben has the benefit of a great D.. not his fault at all.
Ben can look down right horrible, make you say WTF throw the ball" ....but he turns it on when it's grind time.

I pick apart Ben's game a lot because he is the Quarterback but others think it's a no no...

He is still one of the best in the business.... but I can see how some fans or other teams fans can say we win in spite of Ben until the 4th quarter.

I'm curious to see how we do the first 4 games with Lefty in terms of efficiency and sacks... I'm not talking QB controversy though.. it's Ben's team!!!

However I want to see how BA calls the game and how Lefty responds. Lefty was terrible last year, down right pathetic.... but in our offense the guy looked comfortable in limited action. I also think if Lefty has success it will push Ben even more to come out and waste no time getting the job done..

If we go 3-1 and Ben struggles against the Saints in his first game back and takes some of those "hold the ball sack" will the crowd get aggy? Is it even a home game?

I agree with this post. Leftwich looked HORRIBLE on the bucs last season but looked stellar when he played for us in 08. This makes my point. IT'S THE TEAM! Put Ben on the bucs and he will look like cras as well. Bens success is largely in part to HIS TEAM. Steve Young sucked on the bucs as well. Put him on a good team and he took off. Leftwich played in 2 of the SAME games as Ben did in 08 (Browns/Skins) he outplayed Ben in both of those games. Why? Because he made better pre snap reads, audibled and got the ball out quickly. These are areas that he is better than Ben. Ben is better at intangibles, desire and toughness. The qb position is all about "Understanding". When Leftwich has success WATCH how that success will be attributed to Arians play calling, the running game and how little will be attributed to how well THIS qb understands what he is seeing out there. It looks like a different offense with Leftwich running it. There is a reason behind that. Is he better than Ben? NO. Just smarter and more savvy.


Leftwich hardly played 2 games for Steelers and you think he is better than Big Ben??? :roll: :lol:

LEFTWICH THROWS THE BALL EARLY????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look at Leftwich mechanism while throwing the ball. No wonder he got kicked out of Jags and Bucs team.

Are you insecure? Does Leftwich make you uneasy? He must. Because I certainly NEVER said he was better than Ben. If I did then please SHOW ME. I do know he played in the Eagles game, Browns and Skins games in 08. Ben played in those SAME games and please tell us all WHO played the best.
In regard to the Jags and Bucs. Put Ben on those teams and he wouldnt have success either. Steve Young was a Hall of Famer WHEN He left the bucs. A little perspective.

:lol: :lol:

How can you say Big Ben would have struggled with the Jags Team??? That Jags team was a pretty decent team.

According to you Big Ben won because of HIS Team but if Steelers go 4-0 this season it will be because of only Leftwich???

Can you tell me why did Steelers did not win a single SB in 90s when Steelers D was probably better than what we have right now.

BTW Big Ben is a far better QB than Steve Young IMO. Again IMO.

HeHateMe
05-04-2010, 03:01 AM
Ben takes sacks, we all know this... well, most of us know this and a few think Ben has a terrible OL.

Ben has the benefit of a great D.. not his fault at all.
Ben can look down right horrible, make you say WTF throw the ball" ....but he turns it on when it's grind time.

I pick apart Ben's game a lot because he is the Quarterback but others think it's a no no...

He is still one of the best in the business.... but I can see how some fans or other teams fans can say we win in spite of Ben until the 4th quarter.

I'm curious to see how we do the first 4 games with Lefty in terms of efficiency and sacks... I'm not talking QB controversy though.. it's Ben's team!!!

However I want to see how BA calls the game and how Lefty responds. Lefty was terrible last year, down right pathetic.... but in our offense the guy looked comfortable in limited action. I also think if Lefty has success it will push Ben even more to come out and waste no time getting the job done..

If we go 3-1 and Ben struggles against the Saints in his first game back and takes some of those "hold the ball sack" will the crowd get aggy? Is it even a home game?

I agree with this post. Leftwich looked HORRIBLE on the bucs last season but looked stellar when he played for us in 08. This makes my point. IT'S THE TEAM! Put Ben on the bucs and he will look like cras as well. Bens success is largely in part to HIS TEAM. Steve Young sucked on the bucs as well. Put him on a good team and he took off. Leftwich played in 2 of the SAME games as Ben did in 08 (Browns/Skins) he outplayed Ben in both of those games. Why? Because he made better pre snap reads, audibled and got the ball out quickly. These are areas that he is better than Ben. Ben is better at intangibles, desire and toughness. The qb position is all about "Understanding". When Leftwich has success WATCH how that success will be attributed to Arians play calling, the running game and how little will be attributed to how well THIS qb understands what he is seeing out there. It looks like a different offense with Leftwich running it. There is a reason behind that. Is he better than Ben? NO. Just smarter and more savvy.


Leftwich hardly played 2 games for Steelers and you think he is better than Big Ben??? :roll: :lol:

LEFTWICH THROWS THE BALL EARLY????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look at Leftwich mechanism while throwing the ball. No wonder he got kicked out of Jags and Bucs team.

Are you insecure? Does Leftwich make you uneasy? He must. Because I certainly NEVER said he was better than Ben. If I did then please SHOW ME. I do know he played in the Eagles game, Browns and Skins games in 08. Ben played in those SAME games and please tell us all WHO played the best.
In regard to the Jags and Bucs. Put Ben on those teams and he wouldnt have success either. Steve Young was a Hall of Famer WHEN He left the bucs. A little perspective.

:lol: :lol:

How can you say Big Ben would have struggled with the Jags Team??? That Jags team was a pretty decent team.

According to you Big Ben won because of HIS Team but if Steelers go 4-0 this season it will be because of only Leftwich???

Can you tell me why did Steelers did not win a single SB in 90s when Steelers D was probably better than what we have right now.

BTW Big Ben is a far better QB than Steve Young IMO. Again IMO.
I can say it because Ben is a fundamental NIGHTMARE as a qb. Do you think coaches teach young Qb's to be like Ben at QB camps or Manning? I have been to several and Ben is the model of WHAT NOT TO DO. Fact. If the Steelers go 4-0 and they WILL it will be BECAUSE OF THE TEAM and not Leftwich. I have stated that in SEVERAL places. Why you don't see that is beyond me. IF I say Ben is BETTER than Leftwich (and I have SEVERAL TIMES) then how can I discredit Ben and credit Leftwich????? If Ben is good because of the Steelers in my opinion then SO IS LEFTWICH. Did you see him in Tampa? I did. He looked BAD. REAL BAD. He wont look that Bad on our team because WE ARE THE STEELERS. Get it?
The Steelers D in the 90's was NOT better than the D we have now. The only standouts were Woodson, Lake, Lloyd and Gildon. Kendrell, Green and Kirkland were standouts too. But not equal to Polamalu, Woodley, Harrison, Hampton, Aaron Smith and Timmons. Those guys play so well as a unit. What held the 90's teams back was COWHER and his conservative style. Just like his mentor MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER. Similar results in big games. Know why? Conservative. Marty had Brees, LT and Gates so was it the Qb that held them back OR THE COACH? I say the coach. Same with us. Cowher didnt lose all those AFCCG's at home because of the qb, it was because of his style. Did you see the 94 AFCCG? We got up on the Chargers and Cowher got CONSERVATIVE and they came back and beat us. I was so SICK when that Somoan TE caught that TD and did that Hawaiin celebration!!! Wasnt it Cowher who started Kordell the Queen? Kordell through MULTIPLE picks vs the Broncos in 07 and we STILL shoulda won. Just like when we won SB40. Ben played like *ass and we still won. That is my POINT. We don't need a Peyton Manning like Qb on this team. All we need is a serviceable qb. Ben is NOT the primary reason we won 2 SB's IF he was then HOW COME he has yet to win a SB MVP? DO TELL

HeHateMe
05-04-2010, 03:06 AM
Why hasnt he won a League MVP? Why hasnt he been even close? Why does he have ONE Pro Bowl in SIX seasons? Are those the credentials of a STUD QB? Ben is GOOD, Ben is not GREAT, nor is he the primary reason we win. When we start off 4-0. I will be here as you ALL downplay the results. You will say "Arians called the games different when Ben was out". You will find EVERY excuse under the sun instead of looking at the truth. The truth is we are GOOD with or without Ben. FACT. Batch is 3-1 in his absence. Leftwich won the Browns, Skins game. Why didnt we have trouble in those game without the GREAT BEN? Even Dixon is his FIRST career start took the Ravens to OT. We all know we should have won that game as well. Dixons inexperienced cost us in the end but we still should have won. We sure don't struggle without Ben. Explain that.

aggiebones
05-04-2010, 04:54 PM
We don't struggle without Ben?

Our offense was pathetic last year if it weren't for Ben. Couldn't run the ball at all. Against better teams we would have nothing offensive. He threw for like 5000 yards last year.
Without Ben, take Super Bowl #6 off the board and we all know that.
Don't make such ignorant comments.

HeHateMe
05-05-2010, 08:49 AM
We don't struggle without Ben?

Our offense was pathetic last year if it weren't for Ben. Couldn't run the ball at all. Against better teams we would have nothing offensive. He threw for like 5000 yards last year.
Without Ben, take Super Bowl #6 off the board and we all know that.
Don't make such ignorant comments.

How many games did you watch? Couldnt run the ball? LOL What did Mendenhall do last season then? Lets look and see what Ben did vs the Better teams.

Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. TELLING. Ben produced 2 TD's

Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary (remember you HOMERS always cite Bens injury in 06 as an excuse so don't hate on me for doing the same thing). However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

#5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the LETHARGIC one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. The LETHARGIC one also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


#5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

#7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

So you see, Ben's stats were inflated due to WEAKER teams on the schedule. We still went 9-7. What great Qb misses the playoffs in his prime on a good team. Did Montana? Aikman? Bradshaw? Staubach? Tarkenton? Young? Favre? Kelly? etc? There is NO WAY the Steelers should be missing the playoffs. Blame the defense, Blame Arians, Blame Tomlin, Blame Cowher, Blame Whiz and I'll blame the one you guys give all the credit to. You cant have it both ways. Sorry

NorthCoast
05-09-2010, 08:39 AM
Ben made it clear when Whiz was our OC that "I don't respond well when being yelled at". Why do you think he hated Cowher and Whiz? When we played the Cards in Tomlin/Whiz's 1st season, all of the Steelers surrounded Whiz and shook hands and talked to the former Steeler coach. All EXCEPT Ben. But his mistakes (all those frickin sacks) MUST be pointed out. He is too slow to process the information. WATCH how the sack problem disappears in his absence. It will return when he returns. And save the crap about "Ben holds onto the ball to make big plays". Ben holds onto the ball because he is confused, he rolls out to buy time. In the redzone he is at his worst.

I am not sure that he hated Cowher. I am not sure the reason Ben and Whiz did not get a long.

There were times that Ben held the ball. There were times when he did not. I don't believe his issue is solely because of his inability to process information. I think it might be because he does not put enough work in off the field on a consistent basis. It might be possible that there were times that he took bad teams lightly. Whatever the case, I hope he focuses more on his football career then his club life career. I think he can become a better player if he applies himself and focuses more on football.

I agree that there were many times that Ben holds the ball to long. The sack numbers may drop for other reasons. They might run the ball more without Ben. The Oline being together another year will also help. Time will tell.

The analogy in the 'real' working world is someone who has to give a big presentation to the company brass. For some, they will spend a week preparing and practicing exactly every word they will say and what they will do. For others, (including myself), they feel more comfortable improvising after the opening statement. This may be how Ben approaches the game. Run the dozen scripted plays to get a feel for the defense, then start improvising. Improvisation has to be murderous for a defense I would guess, because now you can somewhat negate a defensive scheme. It won him two Superbowls, not expecting nor wanting him to change.

BradshawsHairdresser
05-09-2010, 10:02 AM
Ben made it clear when Whiz was our OC that "I don't respond well when being yelled at". Why do you think he hated Cowher and Whiz? When we played the Cards in Tomlin/Whiz's 1st season, all of the Steelers surrounded Whiz and shook hands and talked to the former Steeler coach. All EXCEPT Ben. But his mistakes (all those frickin sacks) MUST be pointed out. He is too slow to process the information. WATCH how the sack problem disappears in his absence. It will return when he returns. And save the crap about "Ben holds onto the ball to make big plays". Ben holds onto the ball because he is confused, he rolls out to buy time. In the redzone he is at his worst.

I am not sure that he hated Cowher. I am not sure the reason Ben and Whiz did not get a long.

There were times that Ben held the ball. There were times when he did not. I don't believe his issue is solely because of his inability to process information. I think it might be because he does not put enough work in off the field on a consistent basis. It might be possible that there were times that he took bad teams lightly. Whatever the case, I hope he focuses more on his football career then his club life career. I think he can become a better player if he applies himself and focuses more on football.

I agree that there were many times that Ben holds the ball to long. The sack numbers may drop for other reasons. They might run the ball more without Ben. The Oline being together another year will also help. Time will tell.

The analogy in the 'real' working world is someone who has to give a big presentation to the company brass. For some, they will spend a week preparing and practicing exactly every word they will say and what they will do. For others, (including myself), they feel more comfortable improvising after the opening statement. This may be how Ben approaches the game. Run the dozen scripted plays to get a feel for the defense, then start improvising. Improvisation has to be murderous for a defense I would guess, because now you can somewhat negate a defensive scheme. It won him two Superbowls, not expecting nor wanting him to change.


Ben has shortcomings as a player, which have been pointed out in this thread. But I think you've just pointed out one of his biggest strengths. I don't know that there is anyone in the league who is better at improvising, out of making something out of nothing, than Mr. Roethlisberger.

His playing style parallels the way he lives his life. He is undisciplined...he lives on the edge...he shrugs off standard conventions and is not averse to taking big risks...He isn't going to do things someone else's way, but rather his own way (the men over him, Bruce Arians and Mike Tomlin, have pretty much allowed that).

It makes you pull your hair out when he holds the ball and holds the ball and holds the ball...and gets sacked. But then he rifles in an unforgettable pass (like the game-winners to Holmes in Super Bowl XLIII and to Wallace in the GB game last season), and you wonder if anyone else could possibly pull that off. And I contend that if he ran more no-huddle, he'd have even better results.

Is Ben the absolute best overall in the league? Probably not. Does he have some room for improvement? Definitely. Would he look worse on a team like the Bucs? Sure--but wouldn't everyone?

We could point out flaws and foibles in any QB's game. But without Ben, I can't see the Steelers getting to Super Bowl XL, and without Ben, I can't see the Steelers winning XLIII. I think Lefty will do alright in Ben's absence, but I'm not sure he has what it takes to get this team to a Super Bowl. After all, he had some pretty good teams in Jacksonville, and he didn't do it there.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I do have plenty of bad feelings about #7 right now, but they don't really have much to do with his contributions or abilities ON the field. I'm more concerned with Ben OFF the field, and what I think is the high likelihood that he will do something stupid that will further embarrass and tarnish the Steelers.
In that case, a lot of these arguments will be moot, because he will be gone.

feltdizz
05-09-2010, 10:50 AM
Have to give the coworkers credit too though... Ben gets a lot of room to work due to our D. On most teams Ben wouldn't look so hot because he puts the D in terrible positions with sacks and stalled drives for 2 Quarters.

If Ben increases his efficiency it would do wonders for our field position.

NJ-STEELER
05-09-2010, 02:56 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?

BURGH86STEEL
05-09-2010, 04:34 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?


Maybe drives won't be extended. He will take less punishment and live to play another play. That is, if the throws the ball away or makes quicker decisions to use the check downs more often.

I believe that Ben is becoming less nimble as a result of weight gain and the punishment he has taken. I don't believe he is as good as he once was at avoiding the rush. It could also be that players know they have to make sure that get him down. That just adds to the hits he takes.

I think most fans want Ben to have a long 10 to 15 year career with the Steelers. I don't think he will unless some changes are made to the way he plays. Not saying he needs to change everything. There are a few areas the can work on to help extend his career.

How long of a career do you foresee Ben having if he continues to try and extend plays?

feltdizz
05-09-2010, 04:54 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?

If it's first or second down and Ben drops back to pass and no one is open or the rush is on and he throws the ball away we aren't looking at 2nd or 3rd and 17.

Fans who disagree with throwing the ball away always go overboard and think every ball needs to be thrown away or every pass is on 3rd down and that isn't the case. Last year Ben checked down much better then he has in years past. There are a ton of times Mend is open early amd can run for am easy first down and Ben won't throw him the ball or thinks Mend needs to be past the marker to get a first down.

I don't want Ben to change his style altogether but it's crazy to think 50 sacks is normal or OK because Ben makes plays. He misses games every year and looks lost for at least 2 games every year because he is shell shocked.

I think we will see the difference with Lefty or Dixon in these first 4 games. We won't see Lefty shedding 3 guys and throwing miracle passes but we will see 3rd and 4 a lot more then 3rd and 18. Our field position will be better and I doubt the games we do win (hopefully) will be nail biters when we were up by 14 in the 3rd quarter.

Ben is great for excitement, clutch play and white knuckle endings but honestly... it gets annoying coming down t the wire with teams you could and should beat by 15 points.

NJ-STEELER
05-09-2010, 10:01 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?


Maybe drives won't be extended. He will take less punishment and live to play another play. That is, if the throws the ball away or makes quicker decisions to use the check downs more often.

[color=#0000FF]he might, we also might see less extended drives, less scoring, more losses

I believe that Ben is becoming less nimble as a result of weight gain and the punishment he has taken. I don't believe he is as good as he once was at avoiding the rush. It could also be that players know they have to make sure that get him down. That just adds to the hits he takes.

I think most fans want Ben to have a long 10 to 15 year career with the Steelers. I don't think he will unless some changes are made to the way he plays. Not saying he needs to change everything. There are a few areas the can work on to help extend his career.
he got a concussion last year pulling the ball down and trying to run for a first down FWIW. its his 6th yr and he's improved with checkdowns each and every year he's been out of college. also dont forget a lot of those would be checkdowns are to willie 'no hands' parker...would you really trust him catching the ball from what we;ve seen of him over the years

How long of a career do you foresee Ben having if he continues to try and extend plays?


at this rate , i'd be suprised if he doesn't play over 10 years espcecially if the OL improves .

NJ-STEELER
05-09-2010, 10:19 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?

If it's first or second down and Ben drops back to pass and no one is open or the rush is on and he throws the ball away we aren't looking at 2nd or 3rd and 17.

and a lot of times we're moving the chain/ getting long gainers/scoring TDs when he does. do you rally attribute all 50 sacks on his imporovising and holding the ball too long? at least half of those sacks are due to the OL letting someone come in free

Fans who disagree with throwing the ball away always go overboard and think every ball needs to be thrown away or every pass is on 3rd down and that isn't the case. Last year Ben checked down much better then he has in years past. There are a ton of times Mend is open early amd can run for am easy first down and Ben won't throw him the ball or thinks Mend needs to be past the marker to get a first down.

and mendy isn't the 1st option on most of those plays. should he just pitch it out to himm and not let the progression of the play develop? is it impossible to ask the OL to block for 3 secons or not let the qb see someone going to drill him in less then 3 seconds?

I don't want Ben to change his style altogether but it's crazy to think 50 sacks is normal or OK because Ben makes plays. He misses games every year and looks lost for at least 2 games every year because he is shell shocked.

or i agree he's shell shocked to a point. i've seen him look for players coming at him as soon as the ball is snapped cause of how porous the OL is at times. he looks to aviod the pass rusher before there is actually one free coming at him at times

I think we will see the difference with Lefty or Dixon in these first 4 games. We won't see Lefty shedding 3 guys and throwing miracle passes but we will see 3rd and 4 a lot more then 3rd and 18. Our field position will be better and I doubt the games we do win (hopefully) will be nail biters when we were up by 14 in the 3rd quarter.

Ben is great for excitement, clutch play and white knuckle endings but honestly... it gets annoying coming down t the wire with teams you could and should beat by 15 points.

like the 11 point lead ben blew at cincy this past year. your blame ben for that loss i see

NJ-STEELER
05-09-2010, 10:19 PM
dp

frankthetank1
05-09-2010, 11:35 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?

If it's first or second down and Ben drops back to pass and no one is open or the rush is on and he throws the ball away we aren't looking at 2nd or 3rd and 17.

Fans who disagree with throwing the ball away always go overboard and think every ball needs to be thrown away or every pass is on 3rd down and that isn't the case. Last year Ben checked down much better then he has in years past. There are a ton of times Mend is open early amd can run for am easy first down and Ben won't throw him the ball or thinks Mend needs to be past the marker to get a first down.

I don't want Ben to change his style altogether but it's crazy to think 50 sacks is normal or OK because Ben makes plays. He misses games every year and looks lost for at least 2 games every year because he is shell shocked.

I think we will see the difference with Lefty or Dixon in these first 4 games. We won't see Lefty shedding 3 guys and throwing miracle passes but we will see 3rd and 4 a lot more then 3rd and 18. Our field position will be better and I doubt the games we do win (hopefully) will be nail biters when we were up by 14 in the 3rd quarter.

Ben is great for excitement, clutch play and white knuckle endings but honestly... it gets annoying coming down t the wire with teams you could and should beat by 15 points.[/quote]

tell me about it, the steelers always play down to the level of their opponent in the last couple of seasons. that is not because of ben though. all the bad losses like oakland and kc were not because of ben playing badly. at least ben gives us a chance to win in the games that should be in hand by the 4qtr. hopefully with dixon and lefty they will put the offense in the same position at the end of the game as ben does time and time again

NJ-STEELER
05-09-2010, 11:42 PM
how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?

If it's first or second down and Ben drops back to pass and no one is open or the rush is on and he throws the ball away we aren't looking at 2nd or 3rd and 17.

Fans who disagree with throwing the ball away always go overboard and think every ball needs to be thrown away or every pass is on 3rd down and that isn't the case. Last year Ben checked down much better then he has in years past. There are a ton of times Mend is open early amd can run for am easy first down and Ben won't throw him the ball or thinks Mend needs to be past the marker to get a first down.

I don't want Ben to change his style altogether but it's crazy to think 50 sacks is normal or OK because Ben makes plays. He misses games every year and looks lost for at least 2 games every year because he is shell shocked.

I think we will see the difference with Lefty or Dixon in these first 4 games. We won't see Lefty shedding 3 guys and throwing miracle passes but we will see 3rd and 4 a lot more then 3rd and 18. Our field position will be better and I doubt the games we do win (hopefully) will be nail biters when we were up by 14 in the 3rd quarter.

Ben is great for excitement, clutch play and white knuckle endings but honestly... it gets annoying coming down t the wire with teams you could and should beat by 15 points.[/quote:29gw3f0e]

tell me about it, the steelers always play down to the level of their opponent in the last couple of seasons. [/quote:29gw3f0e]

during cowher's years too.

it isn't something new

frankthetank1
05-09-2010, 11:46 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":hm31ls8f]how do drives get extended if (as many want) he throws the ball away when the rush is coming or there is no one open?

If it's first or second down and Ben drops back to pass and no one is open or the rush is on and he throws the ball away we aren't looking at 2nd or 3rd and 17.

Fans who disagree with throwing the ball away always go overboard and think every ball needs to be thrown away or every pass is on 3rd down and that isn't the case. Last year Ben checked down much better then he has in years past. There are a ton of times Mend is open early amd can run for am easy first down and Ben won't throw him the ball or thinks Mend needs to be past the marker to get a first down.

I don't want Ben to change his style altogether but it's crazy to think 50 sacks is normal or OK because Ben makes plays. He misses games every year and looks lost for at least 2 games every year because he is shell shocked.

I think we will see the difference with Lefty or Dixon in these first 4 games. We won't see Lefty shedding 3 guys and throwing miracle passes but we will see 3rd and 4 a lot more then 3rd and 18. Our field position will be better and I doubt the games we do win (hopefully) will be nail biters when we were up by 14 in the 3rd quarter.

Ben is great for excitement, clutch play and white knuckle endings but honestly... it gets annoying coming down t the wire with teams you could and should beat by 15 points.[/quote:hm31ls8f]

tell me about it, the steelers always play down to the level of their opponent in the last couple of seasons. [/quote:hm31ls8f]

during cowher's years too.

it isn't something new[/quote:hm31ls8f]

true but cowher's record when leading after half time was amazing, which is the reason the running game and the 4qtr defense needs to improve.

feltdizz
05-10-2010, 06:42 PM
NJ, indeed Ben is responsible for half the the sacks and not the full 50. But that is still a high number and once you add in the hits on last second passes the number jumps up to about 100.

If Ben only last another 4 years he still gave us a ton of highlights to last a lifetime. I would like to see him get another 8 if possible.

Ben is willing to wait til the last second and he has had some clutch plays but the ratio is a lot lower than most want to admit. We remember the great plays and magnify them but the plays that don't work are just as high and Ben takes a lot of shots on those plays.

NJ-STEELER
05-10-2010, 07:25 PM
didn't we have like 40 something sacks on defense last year.

why do other QB's hold onto the ball for so long?


the ratio is lessened even more when you consider how many times other QB's (some elite) hold the bal ltoo long

feltdizz
05-10-2010, 09:11 PM
didn't we have like 40 something sacks on defense last year.

why do other QB's hold onto the ball for so long?


the ratio is lessened even more when you consider how many times other QB's (some elite) hold the bal ltoo long

not really understanding that logic.. It's not like we had 40 sacks on the same QB. Even if we had 60 sacks it's to be expected because our D is based of pressure and confusion.

Cleveland had 8 sacks and 2 years ago had Ben carted off the field. The beating Ben takes to complete a 6 yard pass on 3rd and 18 is insane. Old school football at it's finest but insane in today's NFL.

feltdizz
05-10-2010, 09:20 PM
I have to ask... is it possible to have a mature discussion about Ben taking less punishment without defenders acting like some are trying to cut his arm off?

I know... I know... He is our franchise, but this is precisely the reason why I think Ben needs to take less hits.

NJ-STEELER
05-10-2010, 10:13 PM
so, only our defense is designed to get pressure on the QB?...gotcha

BTW, who's not being 'mature' abut this?

is it possible to answer such questions then to be labled as someone who is a "ben defender"
instead of just going along with the yinzer sheep that say "he holds the ball too long"


after one game last year i went back on the DVR and went thru every play to determine how many times he had "held the ball too long".

there were 8 plays total that hen didn't get rid of the pass almost immediatley as the play called for or look that way saw it covered and checked to his 2nd option.

IIRC out of those 8 there was 1 sack. and 3 other sacks in the game were from having no time

feltdizz
05-11-2010, 07:30 PM
Ben's sack numbers the last 6 years: 50, 47, 47, 46, 23 and 30.

Bringing up our D's sack totals makes no sense IMO when talking about Ben's health. He admits he holds onto the ball and sandlots it to make plays.

If Ben can admit he holds onto the ball why can't fans? I know he has brought us much success but he also takes punishment that may cut his career short. I would like for it to last a lite longer.

I know other D's besides ours try to sack the QB. Most teams blitz Ben because they know he holds the ball and tries to break the pocket. DC's talk about it all the time when game planning against Ben. We've also seen DB's stop trying to get the big hit and instead grab his throwing arm.

I don't see what our D's sack totals have to do with the punishment Ben receives.

NJ-STEELER
05-12-2010, 03:06 PM
Ben's sack numbers the last 6 years: 50, 47, 47, 46, 23 and 30.

Bringing up our D's sack totals makes no sense IMO when talking about Ben's health. He admits he holds onto the ball and sandlots it to make plays.

he also admits some of it to take the blame off the OL

If Ben can admit he holds onto the ball why can't fans? I know he has brought us much success but he also takes punishment that may cut his career short. I would like for it to last a lite longer.
sure he holds the ball too long at times, tell me a QB that doesn't. do you know who the 1st, 2nd, 3rd options are on each play? does the TV show you a different angle then we all get to see if the option is covered? there was a thread on tiblive that documented (youtube) the sacks the year before the SB43. there were 8 sacks attributed to "holding the ball too long"...thats 8 out of 47

I know other D's besides ours try to sack the QB. Most teams blitz Ben because they know he holds the ball and tries to break the pocket.
thats BS, all teams like to pressure/blitz the QB...thats the 1 thing NFL defenses try to do...take away the time a QB has. to say they do it to us because ben likes to break the pocket is rediculous, DC's talk about it all the time when game planning against Ben. .

we've heard plenty of defensive coordinators say they want to try and keep ben in the pocket because he's so dangerous out of it. they also instruct ther DL's to contain him in that pocket.
i dont think i've ever heard a commentator say they want to blitz ben because he breaks the pocket, dont know where you got that from

feltdizz
05-13-2010, 05:29 PM
Well I See it differently then you do. I dont buy Ben taking the blame to save his OL. There are times when the OL misses assignments and there are times when they block well and Ben still takes a sack instead of chucking the ball out of bounds. The times the OL blocks and Ben takes a sack are the times I take him for his word when he says some of the sacks are on him. It's funny how fans always stick their fingers in their ears when Ben says he takes a few sacks for holding onto the ball. It's much easier to agree with Ben and go from there. Just say he plays the way he plays and you are OK with it. I love the wins but I think the concussions are taking a toll. I'd like to see him play for 10 more years not 4.

I've heard commentators and DC's talk about containing Ben and Ive heard them talk about blitzing him because he tries to shed the tackle instead of throwing the hot route.


We aren't going to agree on this. LOL. I just think when Ben says he is responsible and I watch him pump a few times and take a sack he is admitting the obvious.

hawaiiansteel
05-13-2010, 05:36 PM
maybe if Ben spent a little more time in the film room he would recognize defenses a little quicker and know what to do with the ball before the snap instead of having to wait for the play to unfold? :stirpot

Shawn
05-13-2010, 05:58 PM
Well I See it differently then you do. I dont buy Ben taking the blame to save his OL. There are times when the OL misses assignments and there are times when they block well and Ben still takes a sack instead of chucking the ball out of bounds. The times the OL blocks and Ben takes a sack are the times I take him for his word when he says some of the sacks are on him. It's funny how fans always stick their fingers in their ears when Ben says he takes a few sacks for holding onto the ball. It's much easier to agree with Ben and go from there. Just say he plays the way he plays and you are OK with it. I love the wins but I think the concussions are taking a toll. I'd like to see him play for 10 more years not 4.

I've heard commentators and DC's talk about containing Ben and Ive heard them talk about blitzing him because he tries to shed the tackle instead of throwing the hot route.


We aren't going to agree on this. LOL. I just think when Ben says he is responsible and I watch him pump a few times and take a sack he is admitting the obvious.

Where are the mods when you need one!?! I don't agree with that opinion! :lol:

NJ-STEELER
05-14-2010, 11:10 PM
Well I See it differently then you do. I dont buy Ben taking the blame to save his OL. There are times when the OL misses assignments and there are times when they block well and Ben still takes a sack instead of chucking the ball out of bounds. The times the OL blocks and Ben takes a sack are the times I take him for his word when he says some of the sacks are on him. It's funny how fans always stick their fingers in their ears when Ben says he takes a few sacks for holding onto the ball. It's much easier to agree with Ben and go from there. Just say he plays the way he plays and you are OK with it. I love the wins but I think the concussions are taking a toll. I'd like to see him play for 10 more years not 4.

I've heard commentators and DC's talk about containing Ben and Ive heard them talk about blitzing him because he tries to shed the tackle instead of throwing the hot route.


We aren't going to agree on this. LOL. I just think when Ben says he is responsible and I watch him pump a few times and take a sack he is admitting the obvious.

superbowl parade

"hey offensive Line, who's laughing now"
what does that tell you dizz? maybe they were so bad all year, they finally got some vindication from the media that was blasting them all year.

the sacks happen for a variety of reasons, and yes, even the ones you say and i'll take that (even its its half 20-25 of them) as long as the other 25 aren't from blockers coming free, thats the much bigger problem especially if ur considering the QB's health.

cause i know he'll create just as many if not more big plays from it... game changing plays instead of 2nd and 10

i'll take 2 championships every 5 years. thank you very much

feltdizz
05-16-2010, 02:30 AM
Who's laughing now... I think that implies the OL was better than they were being credited for. Not sure why you used that line to prove a point. If you watch the OL in the playoff run in 2008 they were actually pretty good.

I never said I wanted to give back SB rings... I just want Ben to be around for 10 more years instead of 4.

Keep thanking yourself if it helps you feel better.

hawaiiansteel
05-16-2010, 03:10 AM
Well I See it differently then you do. I dont buy Ben taking the blame to save his OL. There are times when the OL misses assignments and there are times when they block well and Ben still takes a sack instead of chucking the ball out of bounds. The times the OL blocks and Ben takes a sack are the times I take him for his word when he says some of the sacks are on him. It's funny how fans always stick their fingers in their ears when Ben says he takes a few sacks for holding onto the ball. It's much easier to agree with Ben and go from there. Just say he plays the way he plays and you are OK with it. I love the wins but I think the concussions are taking a toll. I'd like to see him play for 10 more years not 4.

I've heard commentators and DC's talk about containing Ben and Ive heard them talk about blitzing him because he tries to shed the tackle instead of throwing the hot route.


We aren't going to agree on this. LOL. I just think when Ben says he is responsible and I watch him pump a few times and take a sack he is admitting the obvious.

Where are the mods when you need one!?! I don't agree with that opinion! :lol:


where is HeHateMe when you need him? i wonder what his opinion on Ben is? :lol:

NorthCoast
05-16-2010, 07:53 AM
Ben's sack numbers the last 6 years: 50, 47, 47, 46, 23 and 30.

Bringing up our D's sack totals makes no sense IMO when talking about Ben's health. He admits he holds onto the ball and sandlots it to make plays.

If Ben can admit he holds onto the ball why can't fans? I know he has brought us much success but he also takes punishment that may cut his career short. I would like for it to last a lite longer.

I know other D's besides ours try to sack the QB. Most teams blitz Ben because they know he holds the ball and tries to break the pocket. DC's talk about it all the time when game planning against Ben. We've also seen DB's stop trying to get the big hit and instead grab his throwing arm.

I don't see what our D's sack totals have to do with the punishment Ben receives.


There is also another piece of evidence that supports Ben holding the ball too long. Has anyone else thought about the stark contrast between our opinion on Willie Colon's ability to play RT and the fact that many observers in the NFL believe he is one of the top players at that position? Just maybe Ben's play makes Willie's play look that bad...?...taking sacks when he should be checking down or throwing it away?

NJ-STEELER
05-16-2010, 03:39 PM
they were a lot better in the post season.

which only goes to show just how crappy they played in the regular season. eg. how many sacks they let up that year

NJ-STEELER
05-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Ben's sack numbers the last 6 years: 50, 47, 47, 46, 23 and 30.

Bringing up our D's sack totals makes no sense IMO when talking about Ben's health. He admits he holds onto the ball and sandlots it to make plays.

If Ben can admit he holds onto the ball why can't fans? I know he has brought us much success but he also takes punishment that may cut his career short. I would like for it to last a lite longer.

I know other D's besides ours try to sack the QB. Most teams blitz Ben because they know he holds the ball and tries to break the pocket. DC's talk about it all the time when game planning against Ben. We've also seen DB's stop trying to get the big hit and instead grab his throwing arm.

I don't see what our D's sack totals have to do with the punishment Ben receives.


There is also another piece of evidence that supports Ben holding the ball too long. Has anyone else thought about the stark contrast between our opinion on Willie Colon's ability to play RT and the fact that many observers in the NFL believe he is one of the top players at that position? Just maybe Ben's play makes Willie's play look that bad...?...taking sacks when he should be checking down or throwing it away?

i rememeber the game at cleveland was a game i saw some critcize ben for holding the ball too long. which he certainly did a few times.

do you want to know which 2 sacks stood out the most to me in that game the brown who lined up opposite willie 2 times with colon barely slowing him down for the sack.
both plays had cleveland sending only 3 guys in to rush

HeHateMe
05-23-2010, 07:53 AM
When the sacks go down in the 1st 4 weeks. Everyone will say "The line is better" until Ben comes back and the sack problem will resurface. We dont have alot of sacks when Batch is in (his last start in 07 he threw 31 times vs the ravens- ZERO SACKS). He threw 2 passes vs the Chiefs after Ben was being sacked all day (same line) ZERO sacks. Leftwich didnt have a sack issue in 08 (Ben did) even in playing vs the eagles, Skins and Browns (all of whom harrassed the heck out of Ben) Leftwich didnt have the same problem once he got in. Dixon passed for almost THIRTY times vs the Ravens in his 1st start and ZERO sacks (there were only two max protection plays; and Ben gets max protection at times as well) Ben plays in the second Ravens game and is sacked FOUR times. It is simple gentlemen. Ben cant make accurate pre snap reads and he is slow to process the information = SACKS.
Oh by the way. Ben has only played in ONE Pro Bowl. He played hehind a ALL PRO line and there were only TWO sacks in that Pro Bowl game. Guess who took them? YEP- BEN ROETHLISBERGER!!! Worth noting they have a limit on blitzing in the pro bowl.